Coming up on the Devil's Details, New Earth Revelation Chapter 21. Do you think the new earth is gonna have French bread pizza?

Oh, the new earth is going to have everything.

Okay. Good. Mhmm. Alright. That's that's you know, as long as we got the, you know, the, you know, the the the French bread pizza, I'm I'm good.

It's got bouncy balls

Oh.

Friendship bracelets. And pogs? Pogs. They're back.

Good morning, Star, and welcome to another episode of the Devil's Details, a show where we dig up, decipher, dissect, deconstruct the many forms of the devil. One of my names is Lester Ryan Clark.

And I sometimes go by Kynan Dias.

And we're just two lost souls hitchhiking down the highway to hell. And yeah, folks, welcome back. We are on chapter 21. And yeah, after all the beasts and the plagues and the battles and the judgments, after watching Babylon burn and the beast get thrown into the lake of fire and Satan finally get defeated, we have finally arrived at what this whole book has been building towards. This is the payoff.

This is the hope. This is the promise that John has been holding out to his suffering community for 20 chapters. A new heaven and a new earth. The new Jerusalem. God dwelling with humanity.

No more tears, no more death, no more pain, and it's beautiful.

Well, yeah, you'll see we got we got gold so beautiful you can't even see it. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. In fact, I

got a bucket of it here if you wanna buy it.

Oh my gosh.

Oh, yes.

Oh, it it it looks just like that that bucket of diamonds you sold me last week.

Oh. Yes. Yes. They go well together.

Yeah. Yeah. I I misplaced that. I don't know where it is. But but, yeah, as usual, popular interpretation has kind of flattened it, turned it into something less radical than what what John is actually saying.

So let's actually, let's get into it. This is Revelation Chapter 21. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, John, saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, write, for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, it is done. I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end.

I will give unto him that is at thirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful and unbelieving and the abominable and murderers and whoremongers and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me saying, come hither. I will show thee the bride, the lamb's wife.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God. Having the glory of God and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal, and had a wall great and high, and had 12 gates, and at the gates 12 angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the 12 tribes of the children of Israel. On the East three gates, on the North three gates, on the South three gates, and on the West three gates. And the wall of the city had 12 foundations, and in them the names of the 12 apostles of the lamb. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

And the length is as large as the breadth, and he measured the city with the reed 12,000 furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal, And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits according to the measure of a man, that is of the angel. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper, and the city was pure gold like under clear glass. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third a chalcedony, the fourth an emerald, the fifth a sardonics, the sixth a sardius, the seventh a chrysolite, the eighth beryl the ninth, a topaz the tenth, a chrysoprasus the eleventh, a jacinth the twelfth, an amethyst.

And the 12 gates were 12 pearls. Every several gate was of one pearl, and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein, for the Lord God Almighty and the lamb are the temple of it, and the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God did light in it, and the lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it, and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day, for there shall be no night here, and they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it.

And there shall in no wise enter into it anything that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination or maketh a lie, but they which are written in the lamb's book of life. Mhmm. Okay.

Can you picture it?

Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. I can't see the gold because it is as of glass. Yes.

Had to do had to do, some quick, pronunciation checks on some of those gems.

Oh, you did marvelous. But

yeah. So so, yeah, lots of lots of gems up there.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Yeah. So so in popular end times reading, chapter 21 is what happens after all the bad stuff, after the tribulation, after the millennium, after the final judgment. We finally get to heaven and the new Jerusalem is basically heaven. It's the eternal dwelling place of the saved. This massive golden city with pearly gates, that's where that phrase comes from by the way, streets of gold and it's where Christians go to live forever with God.

Mhmm. It is often imagined as this place in the sky, up in the clouds somewhere, where we go when we die after or after the rapture or after the resurrection, depending on Mhmm. You know, which version of end times theology you subscribe to. Mhmm. And we will spend eternity there worshiping God, and everything will be perfect and peaceful, and there'll be no more suffering.

It's very static.

Mhmm.

Very, very otherworldly, very, we're we're leaving this earth behind and and going to a a a better place. Mhmm. Right? Keenan, I don't think I've ever asked this on the show. Mhmm.

What do you think of the popular idea of heaven? Let's let's just say, hypothetically, right Mhmm. We both die. That's not hypothetical. That's that's gonna happen.

Well yeah. But and we're both in heaven, and we see it for the first time, and it's exactly like this. Right? Streets paved with gold. It's up in the clouds.

Right? Everybody's walking around with, like, golden wings and harps and and, you know, and the gates are actually pearly and and all of that. Every everything that that we have imagined, like, and and and have seen in the movies and the, you know, and and and and and the TV shows and everything like that is true. What do think? This is your eternity.

Well, I'd be pretty surprised. Think, sure. But sure. Sounds nice. Everyone's got richness, etcetera.

You know, that's not necessarily how I want my heaven to be. But sure. That's nice. Okay. Alright.

Alright. That's see, that's that's kind of my response too. It's like, that's nice. Right? But, like, but then I'm, like, wondering, like, what's the stand up comedy situation up there?

There's nothing to veg about.

So it wouldn't

be stand up comedy. So

there'd be there'd be you know, it it would be but that would that would be the the the paradox because it would be all the greatest comics, like Gilbert Gottfried. Right? And he would be trying to tell the aristocrats joke. Mhmm. But that it it would it would go something it it would go like, okay.

Well, now I have to do it. Now I have to do. Mhmm. It was like, a man walks into a talent agency and and he says, have I got an act for you? And and and the talent scout, he's like, well, go on and and show me.

And and he just starts feeding the poor. And and the talent agent is so impressed and he's like, wow. That's amazing. It's like, wait. It gets better.

And and he gives the shirt off his back, like the literal shirt off his back and he gives it to the the the unfortunate people and then he goes to another group of people and he is not racist towards them. He goes to his mother and father who are there because it's heaven and they're dead and he says, I'm sorry I was such an ungrateful son and they say, we're sorry we didn't do right by you even though we tried our best. And and they they cry and they they hug it out and and so so so then he well, he wants for nothing, so so everything's fine. But, no, I always wonder about that. I wonder if if, you know, heaven has, you know, like like, fun naughty stuff.

You know?

Or it's just all vanilla. You know? There's no there's no reason for it anymore. There's no conflict. Right?

There's no Mhmm. No striving because because everything is there.

Yeah. Don't you hate it when this happens? No. No. We don't.

No. Because it

because it doesn't happen.

And we have no fear of it and then we hadn't there are no more tears.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what about the people who always do this thing? It's like, well, well, we're all equal in the eyes of God and we all love each other and and we've forgiven them.

Mhmm. Oh, don't you hate it when you take a shit and that we don't do that anymore?

Do that anymore. Yeah. There's no more horror movies. Yeah. There's yeah.

No more no more meat probably.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Mhmm. Airplane food. Am I right?

Yeah. It's delicious. All airplane food is delicious.

All airplane food is delicious.

We sometimes take flights just to have the delicious airplane food. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's what stand up comedy would be up there.

Mhmm. Right? Yeah.

But okay. I guess because it's heaven, that would be hilarious and we'd all be laughing.

I guess so. Oh, this guy's this guy gets it. Every day is the same.

Yeah. Amazing. Now I understand why Don Rickles was so famous down on Earth. He's telling wholesome jokes like this. Yeah.

Anyway. But, yeah, folks, I get why people find comfort in this idea of heaven. I do. The, you know, the idea that after all the suffering and pain of this life, there's there's a place where everything is beautiful and nothing hurts. Right?

That's that's very appealing. Mhmm. But I actually don't think John is saying that. Okay. Yeah.

So so let's look at what is happening here because John is doing something radical in this chapter, and we're gonna miss it if we just read it as a description of heaven. Right? Okay. But yeah. Okay.

Let's look at verse one. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away, and there was no more sea. So a new heaven and a new earth. Right? So not we're going to heaven and not we're leaving earth behind, a new heaven and a new earth.

God is remaking creation. This is restoration. This isn't evacuation.

Alright? Okay.

And folks, this is picking up on a theme that runs throughout Jewish prophetic literature. Isaiah sixty five seventeen says, for behold, I create new heavens and a new earth and the former shall not be remembered nor come into mind. This is God's plan from the beginning, not to abandon creation, not to rescue a few people and let the earth burn, but to renew everything to make all things new. And the, you know, the the there was no more sea, so in ancient Jewish cosmology, the sea represented chaos Mhmm. Danger, the untamed forces that threatened God's ordered creation.

Remember, the beast came out of the sea back in chapter 13. No more sea means no more chaos, no more threat, no more other beasts. Creation is finally fully at peace. Alright? And then we get verse two, and I, John oh, boy.

And I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. So this is key. New Jerusalem is coming down from heaven to earth, not us going up to heaven, but heaven coming down to earth. God is bringing his dwelling place to us, the renewed earth. Right?

And it's described as a bride. Remember back in chapter 19, we had the marriage of the lamb. This is the bride. The new Jerusalem is the people of God, the faithful community, the church all dressed up and beautiful and ready for union with God. And then we got verse three, and I heard a great voice out of heaven saying behold the tabernacle of God is with men and he will dwell with them and they shall be his people and God himself shall be with them and be their God.

So the tabernacle of God with men. God is dwelling with humanity, not humanity going to be with God somewhere else, but God coming to be with us on the new Earth. And this is the fulfillment of the entire biblical story. Right? In Genesis, God walked with humanity in the garden.

Then sin entered and humanity was exiled. The whole rest of the Bible is God working to restore that relationship, to dwell with his people again. The tabernacle in the wilderness, the temple in Jerusalem, these were all partial fulfillments, shadows of what was coming. And now, finally, fully, God is dwelling with humanity again.

Yeah. That sounds a lot like Milton with Eden, you know, being this project to make Earth worthy of God, and then once that all gets destroyed, he's he's eventually trying to get back to

Right. Yeah. And the the idea in Milton where their task was to expand the garden, right, and and cover the whole earth. Right. Yeah.

That also fits with the Jewish idea of, like like, the the Messiah was gonna come and basically recreate Eden. Right? There was no talk of, like, heaven up in the sky. There was like, no. We're just we're just gonna we're gonna have Eden again.

Right. Yeah. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes, and there should be no more death. Right? So no more death.

No more pain. No more crying. God himself wipes away the tears. It's it's it's very personal. It's very tender.

This isn't, you know, God the the watchmaker. Right? Mhmm. Or God the kind of a distant all powerful being who who doesn't know you. Right?

This is God intimately present with his people, comforting them, healing them. Mhmm.

Frankly, not even God as like king, like distant king and you know Right. You're a surfer, you know, fiefdom of a of a, you know, kingdom far away.

Mhmm. Yeah. So so even more than that, like, maybe so not God the father Mhmm. But God the the Abba. Right?

Like, the that that more intimate, endearing, like, term for father. Mhmm. Yeah. And and, yeah, John's John's community hearing this. Right?

They're being persecuted. They are watching their friends and family get executed. They're in pain. They're crying. They're surrounded by death.

And John is saying, this is not forever. This is not the end of the story. God is going to wipe away every tear. Mhmm. So that's why it it was relevant to them at that time.

Right? And he that sat upon the throne said, behold, I make all things new. Right? I make all things new. Not I make all new things.

Right? He isn't scrapping creation and starting over. He is renewing where what already exists. He is restoring, redeeming, and healing. Mhmm.

And this is the only time in Revelation that God speaks directly. Everything else has been mediated through angels or visions or symbols, but here God himself speaks. He says, I make all things new. And he said unto me, write for these words are true and faithful. So write it down.

Make sure people know this is true. This is faithful. This is the promise. Right? And then he says, it is done.

I am the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Right? Right? It's finished. The whole plan, the the whole project of redemption and restoration is complete, and the water of life is is offered freely, not like, oh, if you say the right prayer or if you believe the right things.

Right? If you're a part of the right group, it's given freely to anyone who's thirsty, anyone who wants it. Right? That has always resonated with me. Not not this particular passage, but there there is a passage, I believe it is it is in Luke, where Jesus says, those who say to me, Lord, Lord, but do not follow my teachings will not get into the kingdom, and those who do not say to me, Lord, Lord, but do follow my teachings will get into the kingdom.

Mhmm. Basically, I I think what that means is you don't have to believe. You just have to be a good person. Am I like, does that sound like what it means to you?

I don't I don't well, I I don't want

you seem to really like that. Yeah. But I mean, just just just just from what I what I probably misquoted.

No. No. Know. Know what the passage you mean. I think I don't know.

I think you still have to believe in Jesus at the very least. I think that's a that's a low bar, I think. I don't think he's asking the world, is he?

Well, what if you're what if you're a different religion, though?

Then why do you wanna go to Christ heaven? Or if you're not a Christian, why do

you Because because on

your own.

In in this hypothetical, we find out, uh-oh, this is the one. Uh-huh. And and I guess I guess then you would Then

you be divine, I suppose.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You have

to be a real grade a a hole Yeah. To to still not be believing.

Jesus is standing right there in front of you, you're just like, nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope.

You're you're you're an undidested bit of beef.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Yeah. No. I'm actually bread. And then Scrooge does the finger guns. He's like, ah.

Jesus is like, alright. Get it. Here. Anyway, but then he talks about like the fearful, the unbelieving, right, the abominable, the murderers, the whoremongers, the sorcerers, the idolaters, all the liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire. Right?

So so this is John's final warning. Right? New Jerusalem is for those who overcome, who stayed faithful, who don't worship the beast, who who but those who did worship the beast, who participated in in empire's violence, who chose lies over truth, they get the second death. Right?

Yeah. I mean, so these two last chapters are are wrapping up and saying all the nice things, but he does take the time to remind you that that there's fire and brimstone down there. Uh-huh. And

the second death. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yes. So so it's mostly very, very nice and comforting, but but there still is a second death for y'all.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just sort of it's just sort of reversed from some of the other chapters, are like all all brimstone, all destruction Uh-huh. With a little bit of hope. These two are are reversed.

That was mostly dark chocolate with a little bit of peanut butter. And this is it's swapped. Mhmm. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. And notice who's on the list. Right? The the fearful, the ones who were too scared to resist, the ones who went along with Empire because they were afraid of what would happen if they didn't. Right?

That's a Mhmm. That's a hard pill to swallow. Right? Fear is listed right alongside murder and idolatry. Mhmm.

Right? Because I can't you know? What did Luke say? It's not that I hate the empire. No.

No. Wait. What's Luke? That's exactly no. No.

No. The the the the chosen one. No. What did I I said the exact wrong thing. It's it's not that I like the empire.

I hate it. Right? But he's not gonna he it's he's got that moisture farming. Right? Mhmm.

You know what? You if if he had stayed Mhmm. And did that moisture farming Mhmm. The Sarlacc pit, he goes.

Yeah. Well, he'd be worshiping the empire. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. See? So so you don't do that. But, yeah, then we get this really really detailed description of the new Jerusalem. An angel takes him to a mountain and shows him the city, right, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, and and her light was like unto a stone most precious.

The city is glowing with God's glory. It's more beautiful than anything in the old creation. And yeah, we get all these like measurements and descriptions, right, 12 gates with the with the names of the 12 tribes of Israel, 12 foundations with the names of the 12 apostles, walls of jasper, streets of gold, foundations decorated with with every kind of, you know, precious stone. Mhmm. And all these twelves, right, like, you know, the number of God's people, the 12 tribes, the the the apostles, right, Old Testament and New Testament, Jews and Gentiles, everyone is included in this city.

Right? Mhmm. And the city I

think it's also trying to, like, you know, paint them the magical 12 number in in the apostles and the tribes as being ordained, like, again, the Old Testament and the New Testament together. Like, you know, I don't know. I I there there were probably 12 apostles. Right? But but now, you know, putting them together and like, oh, it all forms this wonderful Rubik's Cube that is the city, 12 apostles and 12 tribes.

It couldn't be coincidence.

Right. So this is this is the final draft and being like, see? I meant this the whole time. You know? Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The city is a cube. Right?

The length the length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. Right? So 12,000 furlongs on each side, and you know what else in the bible is a cube? The holy of holies in the temple, the most sacred space, the dwelling space of god.

Oh, I do not know this actually.

Yeah. They like the, the tabernacle? The the I mean, oh, no. The the ark. Mhmm.

Right?

Yeah. So that is a cube as well.

Uh-huh.

Right? I did not know that. Okay.

Yeah. So the new Jerusalem

Mhmm.

Is is the temple. Right? The the whole city is the holy of holies. Right? The the whole city is sacred space where god dwells.

Mhmm. Right?

See, I was just I was so caught up in trying to imagine a cubic city, and I've seen people you know, I've been looking you know, since we started this season, I've been looking at people's depictions of that, which is like incomprehendable. Right? Uh-huh. Uncomprehendable. Yeah.

There you go. And uncomprehendable.

Right. We went on a Rubik's journey just then.

Yeah. How do you how do you place that? I mean, there's this cubic city that that's, yeah, exactly 12,000 furlongs each.

I'm okay. In in my brain

Mhmm.

It was beautiful, but when I say it with words, it's gonna sound silly.

Right. Right. Right. Right.

The Earth, but it's a cube.

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Yeah. You know? And so and so, like, the surface is, you know, like, gravity is kind of, like, pulling everything to the center. So it's like Mhmm. On the upside down side of the cube is is another part of the city.

You know what I mean.

Yeah. We could say to describe it makes it less cool than it is. Absolutely. I understand that completely. But so one face of it would be from like Boston to Oklahoma City is what I saw, 1,500 miles.

That's one dimension of it.

Yeah. And then just do that times six. Six? Six. And that's oh, jeez.

Oh, what's his what's his freaking

name? Who?

In big trouble.

Big trouble?

Big trouble in Little China.

Oh, like James Hong?

No. The the the the other guy who I Kurt Russell? Kurt Russell. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And that's when when Kurt Russell is he's driving in the pork chop express and and we pan back and we see that tarp and and and and it it it's uncovered, and it's the beast and the false prophet.

Oh, no.

And grok, and they're all there. Yeah. Sequels.

Big trouble in the new Jerusalem.

Yeah. Exactly. Alright. No. That's that's that's how the eighties movies always were.

Mhmm. Yeah. But, no, like, I I like that idea. Right? There's no temple in the city because there doesn't need to be one.

Ah. Right? Because because the city is the temple. Right? Like, just being with god is the temp like, the temple

That's interesting.

It's it's kind of like like the temples we've had Mhmm. Are, to us right now, like, extremely holy places and and, you know, for veneration and and and and to inspire awe. Mhmm. But that's only because they are like a representation or a reminder of the presence of God. And then so when God is down here, it's like you could look at these man made temples and be like, oh, that's like that's like the the small version of of what we were, like like, actually, like, looking forward to.

Mhmm. But then also, you know, this generation that John's writing to, this generation of Jews and early Christians understands that the old temple, the old holy of holies can be destroyed relatively easily. Like, they're living in that trauma within a couple generations. Right. Or even less than that.

Yeah. So, yeah, they are yeah. So this one is bigger. Like, you couldn't possibly destroy it.

Yeah. Because it is it it's like not even not even like the size, but it's just it's just like it is the city. Right. Right? Yeah.

And the city had no need of the sun or the moon. Right? So no sun, no moon. Right? God himself is the light.

Right? Mhmm. And, yeah, the gates are never shut. Right? The city isn't a fortress.

It's not keeping people out. It's it's open. It's welcoming. Right?

Well, then why'd you build the gates, Scott?

Probably this. How many gates were there?

12 pearly gates. Mhmm. No. But that's beautiful.

That's nice. Yes. No.

It is. I mean, because yeah. I don't I don't know if they could imagine a great city without gates.

That's like imagining a house without doors. Right. You know, it's like it's like, but you need doors. It's like, but but you wouldn't.

You wouldn't. Right?

Yeah. That's yeah. See? There we are. That's like a nightclub without a stand up comic.

But why would we make jokes? Everything everything is hilarious and and wonderful all the time. Mhmm. Mhmm. It's

like a teacher's lounge without any Tums. You can't even imagine a world.

How would how would I would okay. I I think my first week in heaven, I would be freaking out, and there would be, like, special angels assigned to me. Mhmm. They'd be like, no. No.

No. No. No. No. You don't have acid reflux anymore.

And I'd just be All the Tums in the world.

I'd just be in the corner. But no. No. No. I would I would need I would need, like, calming down first because I'd be I'd be like like, you know, was like, but but there's no there's always Tums and there's no Tums.

And then I'm no. No. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay.

Like like, no. No acid reflux. It's like

Yeah. They're like, could stop wishing for Tums. You can stop wishing for all the Tums of the world. You go

See, then and then I would get arguing with the angels and say, but I'd be like, wait a minute. This is heaven. I can have whatever I want. Right? And they'd be like, yes.

And it's like, so I want my tums. And they'd be like, okay. Hang on. You okay. It's like because there's two of them.

Because because because I need two of them. It's like, alright. You stay here with them. Let me go check. And they go and they give me, like, a bottle of fake Tums that that, like Mhmm.

It it clears like, I don't again, I don't have, like, an acidy stomach because I don't have a stomach. That's true. Right? But they give this to pacify me because, like, they go up to God's office and they're like, like, he's he's asking for the Thomas. It's like, well, give him the Thomas.

And it's like, but we don't we don't need it, but just just give it to him.

Right. The way of Tums has passed, my lord.

You threw the last bottle of Tums into the lake of fire. And it actually kinda, like, canceled out the lake of fire. We we had to make more fire. Make more fire. And god says, oh, okay.

And then he's not troubled by it, but he just he he produces another little packet of Tums.

Right. That's a

give this to him. Yeah. And then and then I'm, like, calm, and I'm satiated for for a little bit until, like, the next thing. I'm like, what happened to my health insurance? And they're like, no.

No. You don't you we get free health care here, but we also don't need health care.

Yeah. I should describe it that way. It's free health care. Single payer.

Yeah. So how much do I owe you for the x-ray? It's we don't we took an x-ray. You have no bones. You have no bones, no organs, no nothing, no acid.

Yeah. I would I would be the most difficult person in heaven for, like, the first week. Uh-huh. But, yeah, I do like this this part where the gates are never shut. Right?

Like, it's open to all.

Right? Yes. That's very nice.

Yeah. But, yeah, no. This is this is the promise that, you know, that God's redemption is bigger than we can imagine. Right? Okay.

So what does this mean for us? Because I was having kind of a hard time looking at this in terms of, like, stuff that's happening on Earth.

Okay.

You know what I mean? Because, like, up to this point, right, we've looked at what scholars had to say about the beast, or the beast is is Caesar Nero. Mhmm. You know, the dragon is Rome. The you know, so all of these all of these mythical things, all of these supernatural things are have actual very natural analogs.

Right? So so if you look at it that way, so far, we've we've been doing that. We've we've been picking it apart. It's like the four horsemen aren't guys named war, death, famine, and and pestilence or conquest or whatever. Right?

They're the events of war, death, famine, and and conquest. Right? Mhmm. The the beast is again, the beast and and the dragon are are metaphors for empire. Right?

Mhmm. But then we get to this last part, and we're talking about heaven. And so I was expecting the scholars to be like, oh, not actual literal heaven, like like heaven on earth. Like Mhmm. Like the world like, after this version of empire is defeated, the world will become a heaven on earth again for a while.

Mhmm. That's what I thought was you know, I was gonna find, but all my sources are talking about, like, actual literal heaven.

Yeah. Yeah. I I haven't seen anything else besides that.

Mhmm. Yeah. But I did wanna

actual literal, like, actual literal heaven of actual literal jewels and and Yeah. Actual literal plenty. Yes.

Yeah. So I yeah. So that's I don't know. We got we got one more chapter, folks. But on that note, one thing I took away from this chapter is that it it isn't about escaping Earth.

It's about Earth being renewed. Right? It's not like hang on until you die, you know, and then you get to go to the good place. It's God making all things new, including this world, and you get to be part of that.

Mhmm.

Right? So and and that that changes everything about how we live right now. Right? Because if God's plan is to renew creation and not destroy it, then creation matters. The earth matters.

Our bodies matter. Justice matters. Right? The systems we build matter. Right?

The the way we treat each other matters. Right? We're not just we're not just killing time until we get raptured out of here. We're we're participating in God's project of making all things new. Every act of love, every act of justice, every time we choose humanity over inhumanity, over over selfishness, over empire, every time we refuse to worship the quote unquote beast, right, that's that's building the new Jerusalem.

That is part of the renewal. And again, right now in 2026, right, we're seeing so much destruction. We're seeing, you know, ice tearing families apart. We're seeing people dying in detention centers. It it it just came out that in in one of the bigger, detention centers, the the agents are taking bets on who on on which prisoners are going to unalive themselves next.

Mhmm. I mean, this is I was scared of hell, Keenan, when I was little. Mhmm. Now I'm scared of here. Mhmm.

You know? And if I can take something away from this chapter, it's that Earth can be hell and it can be heaven, but we've really gotta work for it. Mhmm. And right now, we're seeing empire do what empire does. Right?

Treating people as as less than people. Right? As as as problems to be solved. Right? Final solutions and, know, instead of humans to be loved.

And it would be really easy to just, you know, give up. You know? It's like, well, this world has fallen. This world is broken. Let's just throw it into the lake of fire.

Right? God's gonna burn it all down and take us somewhere better. Right? Mhmm. And that sounds like a certain billionaire's idea to go to another planet.

Mhmm. Right? But that's I I don't think that's what John is saying. John is saying, god is going to heal this world. God is going to wipe away every tear.

Right? God is going to make all things new. Mhmm. And in the meantime, we are called to live like the new Jerusalem is already breaking in because it is. Every time we choose love over fear, every time we welcome the stranger, every time we refuse to participate in empire's violence, that's a glimpse of the new Jerusalem.

That's that's the water of life being offered freely. That's the gates standing open. The new Jerusalem isn't a gated community in the sky. It's a city with open gates where the nations bring their glory, where God dwells with humanity, where there is there's no more tears or death or pain. And folks, that's the world we're working towards.

That's the world God is bringing into being if you believe in God. And if you believe in God, then you can say that we get to participate in that. And if you don't

Mhmm.

Then we're the ones responsible for making that. Mhmm. So yeah. So and and or I guess you could say it could be both. Right?

Because, you know, even if there is a god Mhmm. You know, who's to say that he's gonna actually, like, you know, stretch out his hand and, you know, and make all things new? Maybe John is is saying make things new through our works.

I could see that.

Like, if we like like, people people come back to humanity enough to where we start building a better world, and it I don't know, may like, I heard like, I think you you had said at at some point that that even though, like, you know, we like to catastrophize and and and and and listen to doom and gloom and and and speak doom and gloom, the world is objectively just by the numbers getting better.

Yes. In terms of like war, disease, child mortality, you know, things like that.

Mhmm. Mhmm. And so, like, on a small oh, like like, on a very, very slow scale, could you say that we are we are working towards that? And it and it's and and if it is just us, then it's just us working towards that, you know, slowly but steadily.

Yeah. I think that, you know, there are gigantic problems in the world Mhmm. Bigger than than Trump or bigger than Mr. Orban or whoever. I mean, the climate change is something but that there is a brand of climate doomerism.

And that is often equated with Musk's age, like generation x or older of like, hey, there's just nothing we can do about this, why don't we even try it? Let's give up and go to Mars. I don't think that that's very helpful. No. And it's not true either.

Mean, so the

science I don't think that's is even possible. As advanced as we are, that's not possible.

Oh, you and I aren't going to Mars in our lifetime. Maybe your grandchildren might go to Mars, things be pretty terrible for a lot of people because of climate change. But it's not a case of the world is doomed and there's nothing we can do about it. It's going to be really, really awful for maybe hundreds of millions of people, But that doesn't mean that there won't be inhabitable plots by people

Mhmm.

For billions of people.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, all of this, I I feel like this is, oh, this is one of those, like, destiny fate things that it's like, this will happen, and then we get kinda lazy and we're like, oh, okay, it's okay because God's gonna make all things new, and so we don't have to worry. We can litter a little bit.

We can let those carbon emissions get in the sky. And then it gets serious and we're like, oh, shit. Maybe maybe this isn't gonna happen after all. We gotta work really, really hard. And and we do, and we all come together, and we we fix the earth, and we bring it back from its like like from the brink of of of destruction, and and things start to grow again and the water gets clean again Mhmm.

And the ozone repairs. And then freaking God just pokes his head out of the cloud. It's like, see, I told you it would always happen. I did it. And we're like, we did it.

That's that's not god. That's Wally. It's Wally come back from the Axiom. There we go.

But that's what I mean. I mean, like, it I I I kind of I don't know. I like and I don't like the idea of, like, it will happen Mhmm. Because it has to happen.

Mhmm.

Like, it better happen. Mhmm. Know?

Yeah. There are definitely people who are are living their lives that way.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. But, yeah, all that to say, folks, I like, as as as terrifying as this book of the bible is, and also, as we come to examine on this season, as hopeful as we found it to be, I don't think that lets us off the hook. I think we have to, like, bring it into being.

We have to be the good people that fill this new Jerusalem. Mhmm. And and once we accomplish that, then I guess that's New Jerusalem. Right? Or whatever city other folks' religions call it.

Mecca? Are you sure on oh, yeah. Say Mecca or, oh, I don't know, Shangri La or something. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, you know my like like, I have I have a feeling that, like, you know, once we die and and we get up there, we're gonna find out. Was like, jeez. Well, dude, like like, we were all wrong. Mhmm.

You know? And we were all right. And and and god, he, she, they, them, will, you know, put a hand on our shoulders, all of our shoulders at once somehow. And and and and they'll be like, yes, you are. You're all right.

You're right. Let's stop talking about this. Yes.

And they were like, but God, what about and it was like, no more Who

was the most right?

Yeah, yeah. And then I'm like, but, but, and then he hands me some thumbs and I'm happy.

Well, let's see if any of that happens in the last chapter of Revelation.

Yeah. Yeah. What your predictions for the last chapter of Revelation, Ken?

I like how it ends.

Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. We'll talk about that next week. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Mhmm. I I bet Mhmm. The final word on on on all of this is gonna be amen.

Well, maybe. Maybe you'll have to see.

Yep. Yep. Yep. And listeners, don't you look ahead because that's cheating, which is a sin.

Don't read your bible.

Yeah. Yeah. No. But, no, I I this has definitely been a journey. Mhmm.

Yeah. And, yeah, folks, don't give up. You know, don't let let fear drive you to worship the beast. Don't let the suffering of this moment moment convince you that destruction is inevitable. Mhmm.

Yeah. I think I think it's up to us. Right? Like, God is making all things new, all things. Right?

Including this this broken world, including these broken systems. Right? Including us. And the new Jerusalem is coming down from heaven to earth and, you know, it's not Like, it's not up there waiting for us. It's it's coming here to us.

So let's live like it. Let's be the people with open gates who offer the water of life freely, who who, you know, reflect the glory of God, who refuse to defile the city with lies or violence or fear. Right? Because, you know, as John says, it is done. Right?

The victory is already won. Death is already defeated, and God himself is wiping away every tear. So hold on because I I think that heaven on earth is possible. Mhmm. But, yeah, that said, what did we think of this chapter?

Yes. I I love trying to wrap my head around this new Jerusalem. Mhmm. Couldn't help but, yeah, try to find symbols in in these different types of gems, etcetera. I know.

But but, really, you're you're meant to just sort of take it all in and go, like, transparent gold. It's impossible. It's beautiful.

Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. The amount of knowledge I have of gems Mhmm.

That comes from Steven Universe

Mhmm.

Is vastly larger than the rest of that pie chart. That's right. Oh, Amethyst. Oh, I know that one.

Yeah. I think if you smash some of the gems together, you get new characters. Is that how is that how it works? Right?

My lord, we we gave him the tums and and he's happy well, what is he doing now? Was like, well, he's he's he's he's at the the pearly gates and he's he's removing all of our precious gems, my lord. Let him do that. He can do that. But but but it's totally fine.

Just let him do that. We can make more gems. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I go to the I go to the bank of heaven, and I'm like, I wanna cash these in.

And they're like, you you don't need to. You don't you you don't need money. And then and then I put my hands on my hips, and I'm like, well, then why am I in a bank? And the angel behind the counter is like, touche. But, yeah, folks, this has been another episode of the Devil's Details.

I've been Lester Ryan Clark. You can summon me on all the socials as Lester Ryan Clark.

And I've been Keenan Diaz, and you can invoke me on Instagram and Letterbox as Howdy Keenan.

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