Matt: Corey Miller, welcome back to the WP Minute.
Cory: It's good to be on again, Matt.
I missed you.
Matt: We're no longer competing for the same audience anymore.
Cory: Oh
Matt: what a great, not that we ever competed, fisticuffs.
Yes,
Cory: new day and I love what you do here.
Of course, Matt and always, we've been friends for a long time, but also
mutual supporters in the media space.
And so thanks for that.
Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a new day.
Big stuff going on and good changes.
Matt: lots of stuff to talk about today.
Number one, A2 was acquired.
We're going to talk about that post status.
Was acquired we're gonna talk about that and a couple other Mergers
and acquisitions in your life.
It's been a busy two or three or maybe a month I don't know you tell me how
how how how are you feeling now that all of this stuff is out into the open?
Cory: I used to, for years ago, like I thrive on changing all this and
it was because I was initiating it.
And so a lot of changes.
So I'm, I'm, I'm, you know, happy thankful.
In many ways for a lot of these changes, I know they're things that
are good and gonna, you know, it's the next phase of a lot of things.
You mentioned post data, super, super excited about that.
Don't want to, I want to talk about that when you're ready.
But yeah, it's been a season of change letting some things go and
accepting some things overall in my personal professional life.
But good, like, you know,
Matt: It's always nice to, to breathe a bit of a sigh of relief, whether
it's you know, all your hard work with, with post status and the
WordPress community and, and getting that what I'll call taken care of.
And we'll dive into that in the back half of this episode, but
let's talk first about the A2 stuff.
World host group is the new owner, suitor of A2.
What you know, you get the news, you're like, oh man, hosting in WordPress
it's a game, built it on trust.
It's a game built on relationships, at least as in terms of, of WordPress.
And now you go into this, what I'll call this bigger pool of
talent, of technology, of assets.
The team looks at you and goes, well, you're the guy with the boots
on the ground with the community.
What do we do?
How did you first like phrase this to the team or frame it to the team to say, Hey,
look, WordPress community, super valuable.
Let's go easy here.
Let's not just like put out a PR release and just move on with our day.
Like we, we got to do this the right way.
How did you manage that?
Cory: Yeah.
There's been a, it's been a whirlwind of the past couple of weeks.
And so, you know, I love really like and love the new leadership team I've met
said dilemma, our CEO Tim, who is our chief commercial they call it commercial.
It's really cool.
I like it.
It's product marketing cells.
I believe he is where I'm lining up underneath and Some of the
others, and they are very, very familiar with WordPress.
In fact, I think our COO has given talks at WordCamps before they ran a agency like
a maintenance fixing type site called fix.
net.
So when they talk, it's really refreshing because you go, you
know what you're talking about.
And I think, you know, way more than I do on many of these things.
They're in the details and the technical parts.
And when I heard their vision and values, I said that, yes, that's what we need.
Hosting industry, WordPress, a lot of ups and downs over the years.
And, you know, people in WordPress know, you know, so, Hey.
Would you get on a video with me and talk?
And so he did.
And I was so thankful cause you get to hear it from him, not take my word
for it and everything I've seen and heard as I've continued to step, learn
more, figure out where everything is kind of settling in which is so
early still that it feels promising.
And I like.
What I'm hearing, I really do the vision is cool, the values of, I was on one
of our pretty extended meeting talking about all that thankful being able to
contribute to it and I like that and you know, my thing to seven team was let's get
out and share because in the absence of good information, people make things up.
You know, so that's a team thing.
That's a world thing.
That's a human thing.
If you're not communicated, you'll with people will draw their own conclusions.
And I said, you know, to him and I loved how responsible he was.
Let's do it.
Let's jump on.
And so, to hear from him directly, he's got a lot of experience.
This is not just someone coming in, swoop up, got great plans.
And they need, you know, companies need to make profit, including WP minute.
But the other part is like, it's, it was compelling.
It was new to me and I go that, yes, that too.
So, and he's a great communicator.
So, you can, you, you have that.
I know people will be able to see that right now.
I hope they do and look, and as he mentioned is just,
just give us an opportunity.
To do these things.
We're still in early, early, early phase, but I really like to plan
to not to increase product and support, not decrease to increase.
That's the theme that I've heard in the hosting industry overall,
you know, coming to get spot.
Things inevitably go down, somehow they'll start to bounce back up.
It's cyclical in the hosting industry, but I loved it because they've got
a plan and they're savvy and know.
You can hear Seb's word directly, it's like profit comes
from taking care of people.
I'm in.
Like, I like that.
Matt: World Host Group, you can check out the website, worldhost.
group.
There's, I mean, 14 brands 14 hosting companies under this brand.
We were talking earlier, like, look, it's, in this day and age, anyone
can Google and go up the ladder.
Yes, private equity.
Yes, big brand.
Yes, many, many brands within one brand, right?
And you see this, sort of, this typical structure, this typical org chart
of enterprise and PE kind of feel.
But, I, I, what always gets lost, Particularly in the WordPress
space is, hey man, sometimes the rubber meets the road.
The business has to run.
These are business decisions.
Yes, PE has a particular playbook.
There are playbooks that some are good, some are bad.
It's far too early to tell for you because we're just announcing this stuff today
on, on how they assess their portfolios, the brands in their portfolios, et cetera.
But.
If you're taking things at face value, you're the one talking to these people
on the interior you know, we, we're trusting you, the, the, the WordPress
community is trusting you and, and making sure that A2 is ushered in to
world host group and still, you know, playing its part in the community.
Private equity.
Open source, WordPress, these are things that are very delicate conversations
Cory: Very delicate.
Matt: right?
So it's, I mean, I'm sure you're telling them Hey, this stuff is,
this stuff is in the crosshairs.
I mean, they must know, right?
Looking at the, looking at the news and knowing what's happening.
They must know that.
And if people are hopping on the call with you and listening to you, well,
that's good because there could be.
Investors or private equity or big global brands that are like, whatever,
you know, like, whatever, who cares, man, you know, we don't care, Corey,
let's just, we're just trying to like onboard you and get this thing going.
So, but it's good to hear that at least in this day and age, they're listening
and they're, they're willing to have you as that conduit you WordPress community.
And that's, you know, that's all we can ask for right now.
Cory: Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting I, my first company,
I Themes was acquired by a private equity backed company in Liquidweb.
And I'll say today, I think I was mentioning this to someone else.
I go, I don't have bad things to say about that.
I was treated extremely fair.
I can only speak for myself, but I, I was, cause I, you know, I kept going
with them and then you see, you know, leaders like Matt Cromwell, Devin
Walker, and others that are still a part of that group and doing good things.
And so, you know, it's not always a nightmare horror story
for anyone, team or customers.
And so, you know, my part was just going, you know, let's show the
humans behind this and the depth.
You know, I was, I told Seb, our CEO, I said, I don't hear a lot of.
You know, hosting company, CEOs, there are some, but get out in
front and talk like he did, like, you know, he was actually from his
home office, you know, sharing it.
And I go, that's what I want.
And there's a funny part you'll see where he talks about when he started
back at 13 years old, starting, you know, tinkering with these things
that like a lot of people in tech did.
And I go that, that, that, that's a good signal.
Understanding he's built a hosting multiple hosting companies before
he's built software on teams.
There's a tracker that flows into the CEO.
Okay.
This is it.
Let's just take a second and say, this isn't the typical
thing we've seen in the past.
Not throwing shade on anyone, just going, it's just not what we've seen.
And it's compelling to me.
It's interesting.
I go, tell me more.
I want to, you know, I'm leaning in when I'm hearing this from
branding to product to support.
And so that's encouraging to me.
Those to me are very good signals.
You know, but I said, we'll say, and me too, is just test show.
Let us show you, let us, you know, just give us a moment of like, before
you kind of make some assumptions to see what we're going to do, because
the team I've met, the commercial team everybody I met, which is really.
Another great, you know, signal for me is they're excited about what Katie
Richards and I do with our community team.
That's, that's continuing on and, you know, WordPress in particular,
everybody just acknowledges it's huge, you know, but that's a good
signal that they value that part of what we're doing, reaching customers.
And then again, some.
Thoughtfulness, I would say, not to say in my personal past or wasn't,
it's just, I really appreciate some of the thoughtfulness about what they've
done and how they've communicated back what, what we're doing as it all
kind of flies together with all this emerges with their bigger strategy of
what they're doing and it's compelling.
Matt: I have this whole other thread of thought about like AI and the safety of
our, of our jobs as like marketing people.
But I am feeling pretty confident that folks like you and I and Katie who truly
understand the value of community and can.
can really, you know, pull on the, well, the valuable threads of the community.
Like, understand who the players are.
Understand the needs of not only the You know, the inside baseball
players of WordPress, but what the, what our customers need, what
WordPress customers need you know, the customers of our customers need
when they interact with WordPress.
And what I'm getting at is, two things, number one, we don't have to talk
about it, it's just something that's on my mind, like the AI stuff is a
thing, and I'm always like constantly thinking about that, but if there's
a thought there for you, let me know.
But really the other thing is, I'm sure, you know, folks at Worldhost and others,
they They'd be foolish to look at the WordPress community and be like, Ah,
yeah, we know that thing is over there.
And they call it, you know, this nice little community thing, but it's whatever.
They'd be foolish to approach it that way.
They should be looking at it going, How can we do that WordPress
community thing with these other technologies that we have?
You'll, I mean, they might not, it might not get as WordPress community
as long as we all stick together in the WordPress community, but they
should be looking at that going, okay.
That's pretty good.
It's not a money maker.
It's hard to, you know, do the typical ROI thing on it But it's working
and how can we pull that in to other areas of our business and you know
Not to put too much weight on your shoulders, but you'd be the guy
Cory: Ha ha.
Thank
Matt: That's good.
It's gonna have to you know, erect that structure in you know internally
to you know to world host group But yeah any thoughts big big sort
of pontification there but any thoughts on on those on those areas
Cory: I think you know, one, we can just all assume most any hosting, I'm making a
broad statement here, but most any hosting company has got to think about WordPress.
Like if they don't.
They're in some niche thing that, that, you know, it was like
it was probably 10 years ago.
I remember it was just all the hosting companies kind of
started to go, what's WordPress.
And I think WP Engine was a big part of that.
Coming out Paisley different places, but showing.
You know, professionalism and quality and the need for it.
But then, you know, one day I felt like 10 years ago or so, housing companies
woke up and go, someone run the numbers.
And it was like, I'm just guessing, but it was like 60 percent of your infrastructure
has this thing called WordPress.
And and it just, that was when all of this changed because, you know,
when we break it down from a business sense for a second, recurring
revenue, subscription revenue.
Is the gold standard, you know, for businesses, how,
why SAS is such a huge thing.
So it does, the reality is.
It would be very attracted, attractive to investors.
And that's what we've seen over the last 10 plus years.
And WordPress is just people going, wow, this is huge.
As we've grown and matured as a community, as a platform.
So, you know, I just recognize and accept that, like, I think.
If I can get to the space where I go, that should be a good signal back
that we've grown something pretty big.
It comes with new sets of challenges.
Absolutely.
That we've seen.
That's why I sold iThemes.
I go, you know, got it.
He's just bought security and managed WP and all these place.
And then you know, it just started like, okay.
If I just do my math, they're going to, they're going to camp
out in backups and security.
And now I think most hosting providers have some kind of
backup for their customers.
And so that was our chief product at the time.
And that's what ultimately led me to sales.
Like the industry is getting bigger and there's a lot of attention.
But on the, I think, I think that's a question everybody's, you know,
thinking about too underneath this is, I don't even know if
disruptive is the right word for AI.
Matt: yeah, I totally agree.
Cory: It's like, You know, you know, I've been around together a long time in this
space, but I remember when the iPhone came out, you know, and you're like,
that was the first year right after I think, or right before I think started.
And it, in two years changed, fundamentally changed the world.
And you're like, you know, at the time we're like, okay, is it responsive?
Is it adaptive?
How do we do this?
Matt: Where's the buttons?
Where's the buttons?
This thing is stupid.
Cory: Yeah, for our themes though, you know, you're
Matt: Oh, right,
Cory: wait, we're just used to monitors.
Now it's a very small screen that's different sizes.
And I remember going through that and look, it's better now for
it, you know, going through that.
And but you know, it feels like tech for me.
I've always said like this, like going like this when Chachipiti was
probably last year or so, I was like, when I started actually using it.
I go, Oh my God, it feels like now it's going like this straight up.
And I go, I can't comprehend that dimensionally.
Matt: Yeah, yeah,
Cory: a simple guy.
I'm like.
It's going to change everything.
I don't know.
Matt: Yeah,
Cory: I think most of us are, and I'm glad there's been efforts to think about
how AI can be used in with WordPress to help people, but I use it every day and
all day, personally and professionally.
Like I go, wow, I feel a little bit old now and I feel like
a little bit of a dinosaur in tech, but I go, Oh, I love this.
This is my little buddy.
Like.
I don't call it a name.
I call it chat, but like, holy cow, it has increased quality of my work.
Clarity, all that in a big way.
So like, yes, I think everybody's going,
I don't even know what to do.
You kind of try to stay with it as best you can, but yeah, incredible.
And I'm glad we're at least thinking and you brought the topic up.
Because I see it as a tool.
Great, great tool.
I don't want to protect the future.
Can't.
I'm gonna be dead wrong every time, but I just go, We should
leverage this in some way.
No doubt.
You
Matt: yeah, it's hard to even, I just recorded a video earlier for my YouTube
channel and it's in, at this point now, like you can't predict the future
in five year increments right now.
With, with this with chat GPT, open AI, and, and all the other stuff, like
Hugging Face, the open source stuff.
It is a radical change that's about to happen, and you really have to look at
it in, like, one or two year increments.
And if you're trying to guess anywhere beyond that, good luck.
Like, you, you have to be in the top 01 percent of the tech world
insiders to understand what, like, what this stuff is gonna do.
But how that impacts WordPress, and I think one of WordPress greatest
advantages, right now anyway, is because of hosting companies.
I just want to talk about distribution for a moment.
Like, the fact that, like, WordPress is very popular because a lot of
hosting companies distribute it.
And I think that is You know, in today's climate of WordPress,
everyone's like, Well, you know, we're just going to fork it.
We're going to come up with a new one.
Right?
That new one will take over.
We'll have new leadership on that one.
Or it'll have this feature set.
We'll remove Gutenberg.
It'll do this.
Yeah, okay, great.
Great idea.
And it might be a nice hobby project.
But the thing that is going to be quite nearly impossible to dethrone
is WordPress distribution.
Right?
Every host, one click install.
And it's a little bit of chicken or the egg kind of thing.
WordPress does have a brand.
As much as us, 1% ers of WordPress,
Cory: Yeah.
Matt: you know, say things like, Oh, there's no marketing, there's no brand.
People still know it, therefore people request it, therefore
hosting companies distribute it.
Yes, it's free and it's open source, so I understand that part of it.
But there's still a brand there and it's still being requested.
Based on like what you've done with iThemes and, you know, I totally forgot,
like Liquid Web of course, like do you have a thought on like the power of
distribution and how maybe people should be thinking about Maybe not forking
the entirety of WordPress, but maybe coming up with something new because
dethroning distribution is difficult.
I don't know if you have anything, any thoughts on distribution.
Cory: I'm trying to remember the book off the top of my head, but
I know it was Clayton Christensen.
He talks about, I'll find it in a second, but basically disruption where
any company or product in the sense of WordPress gets in and eventually,
you know, becomes very disruptable because it's like, it's in the thing.
And I, I don't think he uses this, but I think about tech debt and things
like that, like, you know, when we started iThemes, there wasn't like
fleshed out, Stripe didn't exist.
So there wasn't fleshed out things to go automatic renewal, recurring subscription.
We'd have to build that.
And then we're like, got to build this, got to figure this out.
And things had advanced a lot, but you go, whoa, we got to
now transition this big thing.
And I'm not saying that about WordPress necessarily, but, but I think, I have to
look up the name of that book, but it was really crossing the chasm, maybe, but it
was this fact where companies, products get to a certain space and they're just,
it's tough because they've, they've just got a lot of overhead, you know, you
and I have children when I was single, then when it was just Lindsay and I, and
now we have kids, those are different stages of my life, you know what I mean?
Matt: they were.
Cory: And I think about what that with WordPress, like.
You know, what, one of the incredible strengths has
been backwards compatibility.
Like we think about those things as a project, you know, like there's
someone that doesn't want to upgrade to a different version or whatever
the legacy systems are there.
And then it's backwards compatible and, you know, companies don't typically
do that, you know, but WordPress does are focused on inclusion.
Oh my gosh, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
I love that.
That inspires me personally, you know, to bring that back to my
community and inside my heart too, is to go, I do want to include it.
You know, anybody that wants to be here.
I want to welcome when Michelle for shit, say the Pac Man when you're in
a group, get the Pac Man and open, always keep that Pac Man over there.
So, you know, obviously WordPress has changed my life.
In enormous ways, it's taken me on the most incredible 18 year adventure.
But I think there's realities of any software like it is like, you
know, enterprise has needs, different markets have needs, do it yourselfers,
agencies, that's a lot to take on.
And I can't imagine that kind of weight from a project load.
And so, but I mean, then we've also seen competition.
Get so much better 2006 when I started my first WordPress site.
I was like, what else was there?
It was blogger blogger.
com for a blog at the moment, but CMS and all that stuff It was mostly proprietary
and all that and then WordPress hit this critical moment I've often said that like,
you know, Matt Matt is a In my belief is a historical figure in our history of
our planet And should be mentioned and also Mike Little for taking those steps
to launch WordPress to fork B2 launch WordPress, because I was just reflecting
on this, Matt, like a hundred years ago, you know, I've got a heater right here.
I've got air conditioner, we get internet.
I'm talking to you, you're in Massachusetts and I'm in Oklahoma and
like those a hundred years, just a hundred years ago and communication.
So what did the internet do?
And I go, and a key figure in that is WordPress.
How it helped the rapid expansion of the web still there too.
But with that, it's 20, what, 23 years old now, that is crazy in software terms.
Matt: for sure.
I want to talk about the post status stuff, but one more question on the A2.
Any, I'm sure people are listening like, okay great, they got acquired,
so what's going to change immediately?
Anything you know of, anything you can talk about that's
going to change immediately?
Price, dashboard, URLs, anything that is changing immediately on
the A2 stuff with this acquisition?
Cory: So the great news, one of the other signals I'm like, tell me more
about this because we know the buy strategy, you know, in WordPress,
we're very familiar with that.
I think mostly Asian standards are extremely savvy with these
things because they're affected by them, but definitely buy.
But they said two additional words and build.
And I go, I want to know the end build part and it is product.
And I'm very compelled looking at Seb's past, the leadership
team's past that flows into that.
It's not just, Oh, this will do this better thing.
Bring it in here and do that.
It's not that it's like, no, let's build an experience.
They, and he says over and over to in every communication I've talked to him.
It's like, we're trying to build a sustainable, healthy
business that is profitable.
It needs to be profit.
That's a fact of business.
And I go, that and build part is interesting.
Cause I think one of the key questions I want to get in front
of too, and share this vision, just simply share his vision, leadership
team's vision is the end build part.
So product for sure that's going on.
Has been going on before we were even a part of it.
And then now there's plans in place for that.
That will be rolling out that I, I don't even know all of them, but I
know, you know, Aaron Campbell over there in product, he's actually
in the bigger commercial group.
And so I go, this buds well, and I'm hearing the right things.
And let me think what else in the build part.
So there'll be more stuff coming in the next, I don't know, three to six
months that people will start seeing.
My thing was just, let's share CEO.
his vision and values.
And then just give us a moment to show you.
And if we don't, we don't, if we do, you know, but I, one, one other flag,
big word, and you've used this word, but he used it and I said, I want to know
everything you have to say about this.
Cause I love it.
Matt: Yeah.
Cory: Trust.
We want to build globally recognized, trusted brand.
And I, and I said to him, I said.
You know, hosting industry overall does not instill trust
and you've worked in hosting.
You know, this, it doesn't necessarily scream.
Trust me, trust me, trust me.
And I think that's compelling that we would even say it and
put it out there because I go, there's expectations with that.
And they aligned with what I've heard and continue to hear, learn more about.
Where are we going?
And I go that, Oh yes, trust it.
I want that all day, every day.
I want to be in a company that that's the promise we're always shooting for is
and still trust because frankly speaking, it hasn't always been there in industry
Matt: Yeah, no, I mean it's, it's, all you can do all you can do is try.
All we can do is hope that that you steward in A2 and the WordPress
community along with that.
And, you know, we'll check back in about six months to a year.
Cory: at please do, please do.
That's what I invite everyone.
And that's what we're saying too.
And Seb will say that is here's our plans.
And then just give us a little bit of time to start showing you.
The background to those.
And that's all I'm asking is just give us a moment to show you these
cool things I'm hearing about and learning about and involved in.
And so,
Matt: Speaking of giving you a moment, everyone listening to this, just
take a, if you're out for a run, if you're clean, doing your dishes,
cleaning your house, just stop for a moment and enjoy an exhale of relief
for our good friend, Corey Miller.
And you know, it's hard for me to interview you on the, about the post
data stuff because listen, I mean, I, I.
Again, it's not my full time job.
It's a side thing with the WP minute, but my struggles of like Getting people
to care about the WordPress news and community, getting sponsors, finding
talented people to create content, right?
Making content myself and chugging that engine along every single
year along with a membership is, is not for the faint of heart, right?
Because we were talking before, you know, you have a community site,
you have a content site slash media site, and those are either, you
know, Getting pulled down by the temperature of WordPress or getting.
Pulled up if the temperature of WordPress is nice But it's the hard times people
are like I'm so sick of WordPress.
What are they doing now?
And if when it's good, everyone's like oh great sign me up to your sponsorship
at WP minute You've been going through this at a bigger scale with PostStatus.
More members, more sponsors, more problems.
Take me back to your, your time of, when you first acquired PostStatus and you
started thinking about the future of what you wanted to do with PostStatus.
How do you decompress that now?
How are you grateful, thankful, regrets?
What can you share on the emotional level of starting and finishing
this chapter in your life?
Ha,
Cory: oh man, I've been doing a lot of journaling about this, Matt.
And you just said the finishing part.
And I think with all these things, and it's not just post status and
A2, we've had four things between Lindsay and I that we've dealt with.
I've jokingly said to one of my entrepreneurial friends, I said, if you
want to sell your company, touch my elbow.
Because like now evidently is the hot time for me to be involved in these things from
A2, post status One of our startups that we had funded a couple of years ago and I
ran and then her business, she merged two of her businesses together, consolidate
with her partners, push forward.
And so I'm like, if you want it, just go ahead and just touch my shoulder,
rub my elbow because evidently right now it's all coming around because
it's like two week period of time.
So that part, Matt, thank you for that.
The finishing part.
I, I have been very relieved and ready and I'm sure people as
well, you know, for, for something new, a new chapter, all that.
I feel proud that we were able to take Brian's work as the founder.
What he did and started, which is really compelling, like such an active, loyal
group that wants to talk sometimes you go, okay, let's keep it in a bar, you know,
overall, like a really great community that wants to stay connected, needs to
stay connected and things have happened in our world and industry in life.
It's like.
The importance of connection.
So when I left and I themes and Brian paint, actually, I pre being
pinged, prying to ask him something like to ask you about something.
He goes, I have something to ask you about.
And I remember I go, I didn't even think about it.
But what it represented was community.
And I love community.
I love groups.
We did it at iThemes, we built a team community, we built a customer
community, and then Brian had this incredible one that I was a part of.
You were a part of, iThemes sponsored all that over the years because
we need it and we still do it was just community and doing that.
And so I don't know.
I think it was just so excited to go.
I like this.
This is my jam.
And the reality of business going through my forties, I'm now in
my late forties, late Matt, like I'm getting ready to turn 49.
And I started this whole thing when I was like 32.
So I feel old, my friend, you know, you, when you're feeling
Matt: I can go to the featured image from the Matt report that I used
of you in our first interview and
Cory: my God.
Oh my God.
But you know, when you're, you know, it's the whole cliche, but you know, when
you know, you're old is when you think.
People who are grown adults and professionals seem like, are they even
25 and some of our C suite and I'm so energized by it, but at the same
time I go, and there's no bias for me.
I just go, man, I feel like I've done this for a long time, but they have to, Seb
goes back to 2003 like, just like Brian Mutick, our founder at A2 and like, that's
the day when you know, you're old is when you think other people are now young.
And the reality is they're not kids.
They are grown professionals and awesome at it.
And I'm not talking just about our team, about anybody.
But that's where I feel like I've been in the space so long, but long story
short the finishing part is, I think we, we tried to do a lot of stuff.
Post its probably a little bit broke me in many ways because
not nobody's responsibility.
It's my own but trying to do stuff not getting the Momentum build but we did
do good things if I really just step back We did good things that I still
believe in that we did and then now Yost and Marika who better, you know To
take on this and they've got vision for it turning a nonprofit that honestly
Should have been all along because the reality, it's still a business at the
heart of it though, because you got to raise money and pay for that somehow.
This has been our ongoing thing for what, five or six years as I became
part of PostDocs, and these community efforts, content efforts, I don't
think people understand how much time goes into WP Minute for Matt Medeiros.
Like, I know.
And I probably know a fraction of it.
It's like, you're thinking about it.
You're working on it.
And over time, I think business overall is just like, you know, I broke my foot
and that caused a bunch of physical problems and had to take some time off.
And post house is here when I came back and I'm thankful for that,
but I am excited, relieved, you know, I'll be honest, I'm relieved.
And I'm also grateful.
For the time and also Marika, Yost and Michelle for shed and the members and
the sponsors that have supported us over the years, but we've been through a lot,
you know, pandemics, economic, you don't even know how to characterize some of the
economic worldwide economic stuff that's been on in the last couple of years.
All that to say, I have a huge empathy for entrepreneurs, even more so.
I am one at heart.
Still, I'm officially retired for the.
For the time being,
Matt: Yeah.
Cory: I just want to do fun stuff.
So when I called Paul Carter, CEO at A2, Hey, I'm, I'm getting ready to put
Marisma out and tell everybody I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to go take a job.
You know, he was so awesome.
What a great place to land.
He's an amazing leader and also Brian.
And those were my two direct reports.
And it was so much fun.
It still is, but I started having fun again, Matt.
Matt: Yeah.
Cory: And that's where, that's where I'm owning it for
myself and not blaming anyone.
It's myself, but where something was off balance, where I got to the far place
where I'm tired and maybe starting to get frustrated and that builds anger and
that builds potentially to bitterness.
And I could get, see myself going so dangerously close to that.
And that's when I was like, okay.
I just want to do something different for now, put it in good hands with Michelle.
And then thankfully, you know, Yost and Marika being a part of
that and eventually taking it on.
And it's a big thing they're taking on.
Let's not even say it's a big thing.
It's not just financial, but it is financial.
It's also time investment.
They're turning into a nonprofit.
They're not getting rich off this.
They never wanted to, by the way, it was like, they know.
The importance of a thing like post status in the community.
So, yeah, I, I just, my, my, my plea though, is I'm going to be direct on this.
Is that don't devalue the fact that you get this Slack account and you're
connected to a bunch of people.
Don't devalue that.
Don't devalue the fact there's an organization for the commercial side
of, of WordPress that we can talk.
Support things like PressConf.
Raquel's doing amazing things.
Sign up, show up, go.
We have to have a place we have every year.
We couldn't get it done at Postatus.
Raquel's doing it where you can meet together, gather, talk,
shop, like the old Pressonomics.
And I love that they're inspired by that.
And Sally, I saw was coming and I'm making plans to be there.
We're making plans to help support and sponsor.
And but, and then I go to WP Minute, you know, you've been
doing this tirelessly, Matt.
I don't know how you, I don't know how you do it, honestly.
But for so long, and I just say, this isn't even a plea.
It's just like, we need these things in our industry.
We need WP Minute.
We need PostStatus.
We need PressConf.
Support them.
If not, you're not investing in your own career or business or ecosystem.
Frankly speaking.
Now I can say that.
Because my hands are done.
I'm advocating on you all's behalf.
Matt: yeah, yeah, no,
Cory: You and I have talked about this over and over, Matt.
It's, these things are vital.
They connect us.
They serve and support us in some way.
And then it's like, you know, we all have to go digging for begging, pleading
for sponsorship money for people to pay the very low cost of membership.
Just do it.
And if you're in the place with your business by 10 or whatever they are
from WP minute, whatever they are for posts, do it, show up and support it.
Because this is the thing that's crazy.
And I think that maybe some of this is.
Part of the conversation going on bigger in WordPress, but it's, if you
benefit from it, actually support it.
I think that's a core part of the message I feel here, but
I do see it on a bigger level.
It's just, if you're benefiting from it, step up, show it just
because there's not a buy button, you know, but hit the buy button,
hit the join button and support it.
And then.
If you do find support, tell the people you use, tell the vendors, the hosting
companies, the plug in companies.
I can't live without WP Minute.
Go sponsor.
And I would also say if you're an agency owner, you have, I believe,
you're the VIPs for all of the companies we're talking about.
The sponsors that would come for WP Minute or elsewhere.
Because you are the core customer that we all want to talk about.
Name a hosting company that doesn't have a partner program.
You know, for agencies.
So let your voice be known.
And this is the thing.
I think we have so many innovative, incredible people, brilliant minds
and awesome humans in WordPress.
But we don't always see the value of this.
I, even if it's Slack, but now Raquel's got the Priscon where we
can go and go together and talk shop.
But agency owners, it's in, this is something I'm borrowing
from Shrevel back in the day is cooperation over competition.
And you can quickly see, it's like, you and I, we joke about this.
Okay.
Were we frenemies at Postatus and I remember Sarah Tavern, you know, we're
all getting in our little frenemies.
It was so fun, lighthearted because we're all doing our best.
you know, and hopefully pushing each other.
But that comp cooperation part now, now, now is the time to lean in now.
If you don't, you are not investing in the ecosystem that
supports your career or business.
Matt: yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously, I couldn't agree with you any, any
more, there's, there's so much to be said in, in the WordPress space.
And I know I've talked about this a lot, but it's rare that you and I will
talk about this publicly to really like share, share how we think about it.
But.
Yeah, it, it is it's just a strange place, the WordPress, like, the
WordPress business sphere, right?
And especially when you look at, like, the media side of it, because there are so
many people who value you know, the, the work that, that we do at the WP Minute,
and again, I can't thank Eric Karkovac enough, who writes for me, Raquel, who
helps me with the community stuff at the WP Minute, but all that, that content In
the WordPress space, people value it like they want it, I should say, they want it.
But they, but it's hard to find people who will invest in it, right?
Money to keep it going.
And as soon as it goes away, people are like, well, why aren't you covering,
like all of the stuff happening in, in the WordPress world these days.
It's like, well, you should be covering it more.
You should be saying this about it.
You should be interviewing these people.
But they're like, whoa!
I'm no big media conglomerate with a legal war chest, you know, to back
me up if I mistakenly say something.
And, by the way, this is not a full time job.
I don't know how Ray does it from the repository.
Cory: Oh, I know.
I told her that yesterday.
I was chatting with her.
Matt: yeah, she's doing fantastic work, right?
You know, and it's just, and then there's just, there's so many
people in the, in doing WordPress newsletters, doing WordPress podcasts.
And that's awesome.
I take the, the, the little money that I bring in from the WP minute and
I've sponsored other smaller creators and their newsletters and their
podcast to just like keep them going.
And You know, but at the same time, what that does is it sort of like
there are people who start and stop and then just, you know, fade away.
And, and I know that happens, but in the WordPress space, it, it is.
Pretty detrimental to like people caring about this kind of content.
And that's why, again, like Corey said, like you reach out to these other
newsletters and these folks who are starting up their podcasts and their
YouTube channels and you support them.
Like if it's not post status, if it's not the WP minute, then pick somebody
else, you know, please you know, to, to support them because this content
is extremely, extremely important.
Right.
Especially in today's climate.
And, again, further that, against the backdrop of where AI is headed
you know, news around the world.
I mean, it's already been impacted by AI and like other algorithms, especially on
social media platforms, but all of this news stuff is, is everyone's going to
have, you know, the summary of their news.
On their phones.
It's going to shoot over to their email.
It's all going to be AI generated.
It's going to be curated to exactly what you want.
And what that means is, yeah, the listicles that happen in WordPress, the
newsletters that go out of the top 10 stories, it ain't going to matter anymore.
Because you're going to get it somewhere else.
But what you won't get Not yet anyway, is that the human breakdown, right?
The, the breakdown from, you know, the, the individual who curated that
news and information and is giving it to you in, with their angle on it.
Right?
10 year, ran an agency for 10 years, been podcasting about WordPress for
15 plus years, worked at a hosting company, worked at Gravity Forms,
worked in the audio industry.
So all of that leads up to my opinion on X, Y, Z, right?
And then the 12 other people who are doing that based on their experiences in
life and that, that's the next frontier, you know, like that's the next frontier.
Like the new stuff, see ya, but the human side of it and you were
you know, I'll still continue to consider you a journalist.
Like that's where your backgrounds in, right?
So you're looking at that going, yeah, reporting like the, the cut and
dry, you know, black and white stuff.
Yeah.
The, the AI's just gonna give it to you.
Here's what happened today, , here's what happened today.
And then we're gonna look for a human to say, okay, can you tell me,
like, what do you think about it?
So
Cory: That's what I value about you and Krogsgard is that your
opinions helps me calibrate my own,
Matt: mm-hmm
Cory: you know, like maybe I won't agree a hundred percent, but that
perspective, the commentary is, is the, is the place because it is,
like you said, all those experiences wrapped into one to share something.
And even if you don't agree, it gives you a baseline to figure out your own opinion.
I think we.
Don't fully recognize that always that having you on here, your YouTube channel,
your podcast that you've been doing over the years, how much work is there
where you're given a really thoughtful opinion and perspective on things to
help form like, like you too, you and Crutch were some of the first people
I would call outside of iThemes to ask your input and feedback on things.
Why?
For those reasons, you know, and why I supported both of you
in different projects over the years and want to continue to.
And the new news that we're, you know, sharing.
So, because we recognize it, but it's something that, you know,
it's just like when we put this together, you had post that as Slack.
Okay.
You had to be watching or have it on your phone.
You know, you've got your own Slack at WP Minute.
And then, which by the way, sorry, I didn't do that on yours.
Cause I'm a member.
I am
Matt: Yeah.
Cory: of WP Minute, but like, and also the Admin Bar, which I forgot
to say earlier, but that time.
And I don't even remember, Matt.
I hope it was not late for you, but I was like, okay, ping and then there's
a response and things come in and then scheduling and then prepping for all this.
I mean, what do you have three, four hours now into this plus, but you can't even
say that because it's like, start here.
Okay.
Have the conversation.
Something comes in over here.
Okay.
I got to go back.
Wait, has Corey responded over here?
Come back.
And you're like, that's just to do this piece of content.
Then you have post and then you have promotion.
That's a lot of work to deliver the quality you've done for
consistently for so long.
You
Matt: No, I appreciate it.
I want to hit, I want to hit you with a more direct question
on on running post status.
What, what, what was the most challenging?
This is, this is me as somebody who runs, you know, a small media site with
a, with a membership site, though my membership's a little bit different.
It's really, if you like, If you want to support me, you can donate
and you get access to a slack.
I'm not really promising anything on the membership side.
Like, I'm not holding any kind of like internal membership
meetups or anything like that.
I know post status was a lot more formal on that.
What do you think was the most challenging when you were at
the, at the head of that ship?
From the business perspective.
Cory: I generally go, but I'm going to answer this specifically.
There's two problems in business.
I always said every entrepreneur deals with his money and people
and they're intimately connected.
Matt: Sorry.
Cory: yeah, but the money side was sponsorships to one, pay all the bills.
And then second, Try to offer more value, increased quality to our members
and our sponsors and sponsorship.
That was one of the biggest second we rolled out the business accounts
was asking people to show up and sign up and support it because we all
need it and have one voice together.
Or at least a common, one common place to have a voice.
So sponsorship money and then subpar underneath money is membership.
We just couldn't get that, you know, it was always heavily advertising support.
70 30, I think when I initially came on and we try to balance out a better And,
and just didn't get that going, but the, you know, hot, cold sponsorship stuff.
Okay.
This quarter, someone's all in there ready.
And I don't have inventory for that.
And then next quarter I do.
And they're like, Nope when shifted.
And I think that's with all of us that deal with advertising.
The second one and really is second is that just wasn't my cup of tea
and I didn't always appreciate it.
I wanted a safe, healthy environment for conversations, but the back end of that
was not something I look forward to.
It's just, and, and I wouldn't say it was every day.
It was just like a handful of things over the years where you go, man,
I'm trying to push, get the money to do the things we need to do for
this and pay me and pay our team.
And then.
It would just invariably come in where you're like, I don't like honestly
having to tell adults to be kind.
Matt: right.
Cory: I just don't
Matt: it enough with my kids.
Cory: I know and that is the gauge too and this is anywhere on the internet Not
just post ads, but it's just like there's a big flag when my children are more
mature and kind than an adult profession professional and I just didn't that's
just the fact of the internet, you know, i've done it myself I've been the troll
myself You know, keyboard warrior, Oh, should let that cook on 24 hour cycle.
That was not as frequent, but it was there ongoing protecting the
healthy people, protecting people was tough and draining for me because
invariably come in and you're like, I can't monitor this all the time.
Matt: I mean, you're talking thousands.
You're talking a few thousand people in a room.
Like
Cory: all the time, all day, every day.
Matt: it's literally impossible.
Yeah,
Cory: to Michelle for shit.
She keeps things together.
I'm indebted to her and thankful for her because, but it's tough.
Especially because we are not as a WordPress industry, we're not
bashful about sharing our opinions.
Matt: Sure.
Yeah.
No, it's the, it's the good and great of this stuff.
You know, I, I was witnessing before we jumped on, like I was witnessing like
some of the discussion around like, you know, what it means to have like private
conversations in a slack group that size.
And, you know, this is just my personal opinion.
It's not private anymore.
You know you know, one time I remember I saw this is years ago, I, there was
a conversation happening in a page builder group on Facebook with over 10,
000 people in the Facebook group and somebody posted something and I was like,
this, and this was like an amazing post.
I was like, wow, this is like amazing.
This is, you know, this goes back years when people are still trying to
figure out like is page rules, how is page rules going to change WordPress?
So this goes back a few years and I, and I saw somebody post something amazing.
I thought it was great.
Screenshotted it brought it over to Twitter and I was like see this is what
we should all be thinking about when it comes to Like WordPress and page.
I thought it was a fantastic post and I was I was amplifying it And
then that person messaged me and was like you take that down immediately.
That's a private thing and I'm like Private you put it in a
group of over 10, 000 people
Cory: Yeah.
Matt: Where do you draw the line between?
private and Under 10, 000 people is, is, is a private message and it's tough, man.
It's just tough.
It, like you said, it's the internet, but also it's humans and, yeah, it's,
it's, it can be draining for sure.
Especially when you're trying to lead the whole thing.
Cory: Yeah.
I still love community.
I just like it on this side.
I
Matt: Yeah.
Cory: having my paycheck, working with an incredible team.
It starts with Katie Richards and then the new team, we're all host group.
And, but I like this better because like for this, for the money side,
I'm just getting paid and I like that.
And then I'm doing the stuff I really enjoy doing.
So it checks the box where I'm not having a struggle to go, okay, I want
to do this work, but I've got to go be a salesperson here and sell a sponsorship.
And I.
Tried my best to learn and grow with that and say, I can always learn new things.
I learned how to play pay PlayStation last year.
I haven't played in since like way back in the day.
And I was like, I can, I can learn new things.
And, but that side, you know, it like, this is, this is what you do.
You talk about perspectives, you ask great questions, you get
compelling guests on, and, but then you also have a very big need to go
raise money to pay for everything.
And.
You know, that's just, that's a hard job.
Matt: Yeah.
Corey Miller.
I'm so glad that this weight is lifted off of your shoulder.
Hey, with some, a little bit of new weight on your shoulders, right?
People are going to be looking at you going, okay, how's this acquisition doing?
How's A2?
We ushering in our community, our customers.
But so thankful that you were able to hang out today and chat
about both of these things.
Any particular place you want folks to go to say thanks, to follow you?
Any landing page they should check out?
Cory: Well, I did just about a month ago, pull my side over
to a two it's on WordPress.
Don't judge me on my design, but I got a new website.
So coreymiller.
com it's a very simple website, you know?
But I was like, Oh, it is that that would be the connection point as well as,
you know, Twitter, LinkedIn, all that.
And as best I can, I try to stay in touch.
It's nice.
It's a, it's a, it's heavy, but it's so good.
It's reflection of all the great people I've met over the years.
I've got a lot of friends, there's a bunch of DMs sitting in the post.
So I'm going to go say, thank you.
Thank you.
Go support Geost.
Go support, go support, go support, throw in some WP minute, you know,
and all these ones we've talked about.
But thanks so much, Matt.
I so much appreciate it.
As we finish that journey, we've handed it off.
Well, we're still handing off things, but we've closed the deal and we're
super happy and I wish Marie Kanyo is the best and there really are
incredible humans I'm glad to know them.