WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.050 --> 00:00:05.040 Cal: Welcome to the Grazing Grass podcast, episode 46. 00:00:05.850 --> 00:00:09.390 Ethon: Every year that you delay, that is basically interest that 00:00:09.390 --> 00:00:13.483 you'll never be able to get back on your experience and education. 00:00:13.933 --> 00:00:18.793 Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass podcast, helping grass farmers learn from 00:00:18.793 --> 00:00:24.133 grass farmers and every episode features a grass farmer and their operation. 00:00:25.153 --> 00:00:27.293 I'm your host, cal Hardage. 00:00:28.393 --> 00:00:29.383 On today's show. 00:00:29.383 --> 00:00:34.603 We have Ethon Pawlaczyk of Black Swamp Cattle in Ohio. 00:00:34.853 --> 00:00:39.553 Ethon is leading a change on his family farm from row crops to 00:00:39.553 --> 00:00:41.983 grass-based cattle and poultry. 00:00:42.983 --> 00:00:45.683 I think you'll enjoy hearing about his journey. 00:00:46.683 --> 00:00:50.193 You may have noticed that we've not released a episode for quite a while. 00:00:51.153 --> 00:00:56.523 We are excited to get started again and have some great episodes lined up for you. 00:00:57.693 --> 00:01:00.673 Also stay tuned after our talk with Ethon. 00:01:01.053 --> 00:01:03.123 To hear about a new project for me. 00:01:04.803 --> 00:01:06.443 However, before we get to Ethon. 00:01:06.843 --> 00:01:12.043 I'm excited to share the news of a new podcast by August Horstmann 00:01:12.513 --> 00:01:14.223 called Grazed in America. 00:01:15.093 --> 00:01:18.723 August was a guest on episode 15 of our podcast. 00:01:19.473 --> 00:01:22.113 I encourage you go back and listen to it, if you have it. 00:01:23.193 --> 00:01:25.803 Also look for his podcast this week. 00:01:26.283 --> 00:01:29.943 The first episode of Grazed in America is dropping this week. 00:01:30.453 --> 00:01:33.453 Should be available where you consume podcast. 00:01:34.833 --> 00:01:39.333 But give him a little bit of grace because sometimes getting podcasts to 00:01:39.453 --> 00:01:44.553 all the distribution channels takes a little bit, but it should be available. 00:01:44.553 --> 00:01:49.413 And if you can't find it, hop over to his Facebook page for Grazed 00:01:49.413 --> 00:01:50.763 in America and let him know. 00:01:50.883 --> 00:01:51.973 Let's talk to Ethon. 00:01:52.963 --> 00:01:56.863 Ethan Pawlaczyk, we wanna welcome you to the Grazing Grass Podcast. 00:01:56.893 --> 00:01:59.053 I think I said your last name better that time. 00:01:59.443 --> 00:01:59.743 Ethon: Yeah. 00:01:59.743 --> 00:02:00.153 That was good. 00:02:02.008 --> 00:02:02.518 Cal: All right. 00:02:02.518 --> 00:02:03.148 Very good. 00:02:03.748 --> 00:02:06.808 Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your operation? 00:02:07.708 --> 00:02:12.718 Ethon: So I am a third or fourth generation farmer, depending 00:02:12.718 --> 00:02:13.918 on how you want to define that. 00:02:13.948 --> 00:02:18.136 And I'm in northwest Ohio about 20 minutes outside the city of Toledo, 00:02:18.616 --> 00:02:24.586 and we focus on raising grass-finished beef and poultry raised out on pasture. 00:02:25.586 --> 00:02:28.156 Cal: So you've been around agriculture for a long time. 00:02:29.066 --> 00:02:29.516 Ethon: Yep. 00:02:29.643 --> 00:02:34.786 Ever since my family came from Poland to the United States and like the 00:02:34.786 --> 00:02:39.196 early 19 hundreds, they've been farmers in the family ever since then. 00:02:39.376 --> 00:02:43.345 And I actually still live in the house that the original family 00:02:43.675 --> 00:02:45.442 came to and started here in Ohio. 00:02:46.442 --> 00:02:47.792 Cal: Oh, that is very nice. 00:02:48.792 --> 00:02:53.502 Now you said grass fed, have they always did grass finish products? 00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:53.948 Ethon: No. 00:02:54.008 --> 00:02:58.486 In fact, I'm the first one to get back into animal agriculture. 00:02:58.546 --> 00:03:02.596 It's been row crop here for most of my family, ever since. 00:03:02.596 --> 00:03:07.302 We've started, back when they first came, they had some horses just for, 00:03:07.330 --> 00:03:09.378 doing the work and maybe had a milk cow. 00:03:09.828 --> 00:03:16.273 But ever since the mid 19 hundreds, things have moved towards grain and 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:19.679 conventional, what you would consider conventional agriculture ever since then. 00:03:20.679 --> 00:03:24.062 Cal: So growing up it was mainly a grain or crop farm. 00:03:24.852 --> 00:03:25.532 Ethon: Yep, yep. 00:03:25.562 --> 00:03:30.592 We would raise soybeans for about seven years, and then we would have 00:03:30.597 --> 00:03:35.042 one corn crop, and then we would raise soybeans again for about seven years 00:03:35.042 --> 00:03:39.602 and then have one corn crop until it got too expensive to plant corn when it 00:03:39.602 --> 00:03:41.912 was at like $500 an acre to plant it. 00:03:42.407 --> 00:03:48.772 And then we just quit doing corn and only grew soybeans for about 14 years until I 00:03:48.801 --> 00:03:50.931 took over most of the farming operation. 00:03:51.931 --> 00:03:55.992 Cal: And at that time, did you continue with row crops or some row 00:03:55.992 --> 00:03:58.492 crops, or did you stop all of it? 00:03:58.492 --> 00:04:01.503 Ethon: I continued doing row crop for a little bit cuz it's 00:04:01.503 --> 00:04:02.553 the only thing that I knew. 00:04:03.153 --> 00:04:07.586 And I heard some stuff about cover cropping and I was interested in that, 00:04:07.586 --> 00:04:09.566 but didn't really do too much with it. 00:04:10.076 --> 00:04:15.116 And then eventually I came across a YouTube video talking about this 00:04:15.121 --> 00:04:20.870 guy who was raising cattle on 1600 acres with no tractor and no barn. 00:04:20.941 --> 00:04:24.615 I'm sure you've heard of him, Greg Judy, and I couldn't be, when I read 00:04:24.620 --> 00:04:25.754 the title, I couldn't believe it. 00:04:25.776 --> 00:04:29.376 I didn't know you could grow or raise cattle without a 00:04:29.376 --> 00:04:30.816 barn or without a tractor. 00:04:30.876 --> 00:04:31.956 Didn't make any sense to me. 00:04:31.956 --> 00:04:33.966 So I was really interested in the video. 00:04:34.491 --> 00:04:37.763 And when I watched it, it changed the whole way that I looked at 00:04:37.763 --> 00:04:39.263 agriculture ever since then. 00:04:40.263 --> 00:04:44.013 Cal: So how did you, or once you saw that video and you're like, 00:04:44.013 --> 00:04:46.503 wow, is this something I can do? 00:04:46.713 --> 00:04:48.453 How did you progress from there? 00:04:49.623 --> 00:04:55.083 Ethon: So the first thing that I did was just kept researching and trying 00:04:55.083 --> 00:05:00.423 to figure out, is this guy just full of it or is this a real thing? 00:05:00.483 --> 00:05:01.803 Is this even possible? 00:05:02.133 --> 00:05:06.282 I did a lot of researching when I was going to college and was up all 00:05:06.287 --> 00:05:09.672 night trying, supposed to be doing homework, and I would be watching 00:05:09.677 --> 00:05:13.740 YouTube videos about different types of farming and things like that. 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:18.443 And then once I got an understanding of, oh, I think this is a real thing, then 00:05:18.503 --> 00:05:24.173 I made the first, what was for us a big step, which was going to one year of cover 00:05:24.173 --> 00:05:26.123 cropping and then seeing what that did. 00:05:26.483 --> 00:05:32.603 And then eventually moving towards purchasing some cattle to bring 00:05:32.603 --> 00:05:36.580 back onto the farm and try to do management intensive grazing. 00:05:37.580 --> 00:05:42.170 Cal: About what year was this that you did your cover crop experiment? 00:05:43.055 --> 00:05:47.945 Ethon: The cover crop experiment was in 2019 and it was pretty easy to convince 00:05:47.945 --> 00:05:51.935 my family to do it because it was a year where we had a lot of flooding and so 00:05:51.935 --> 00:05:54.125 nobody really planted anything at all. 00:05:54.455 --> 00:05:58.085 And I said, Hey, if I buy this, I pay for all the seed and 00:05:58.295 --> 00:06:00.045 do, pay for everything myself. 00:06:00.058 --> 00:06:01.798 How about we try this and see what happens? 00:06:02.158 --> 00:06:07.438 And then that's what I did and it was, we just didn't do anything with it. 00:06:07.438 --> 00:06:11.578 We just left it go fallow or I think that was in 20, 20 18 actually. 00:06:11.690 --> 00:06:17.497 And then the year of 2019 we did another, there was our last soybean crop and 00:06:17.567 --> 00:06:18.827 they were actually some of the best. 00:06:19.412 --> 00:06:23.682 Soybeans that we had and since I had been involved. 00:06:24.042 --> 00:06:27.080 And so with very minimal fertilizer. 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:31.200 And so I was like, oh man, this seems like there's really something going on here. 00:06:33.015 --> 00:06:33.645 Cal: Oh yes. 00:06:34.645 --> 00:06:37.135 So you grew soybeans in 2019. 00:06:38.150 --> 00:06:42.618 Did you plant some cover crops after that or what was your next step? 00:06:43.233 --> 00:06:47.244 Ethon: the next step was yes, I was gonna do some cover crops in the row, 00:06:47.244 --> 00:06:53.724 crop fields, and then in the cover crop mix that I had behind our house, I mixed 00:06:53.724 --> 00:06:56.334 in some fescue and some red clover. 00:06:56.634 --> 00:06:58.074 And I thought, you know what? 00:06:58.284 --> 00:07:01.974 I'm gonna try to get this ready and see if I can try to get calves. 00:07:02.364 --> 00:07:07.254 And if I can't, then we can always just disc it up and spray it. 00:07:07.284 --> 00:07:08.184 And who cares? 00:07:08.184 --> 00:07:09.114 It won't be a big deal. 00:07:09.624 --> 00:07:14.183 But then eventually I was able to convince everybody that if we just 00:07:14.183 --> 00:07:17.723 try it on the small piece behind our house, it's about nine acres. 00:07:18.203 --> 00:07:22.901 And if we just tried having a couple ahead of cattle back there, then maybe 00:07:22.906 --> 00:07:24.575 we could see what what all that was. 00:07:24.575 --> 00:07:28.385 And if it was no good, then we could sell 'em and just go back to doing 00:07:28.385 --> 00:07:29.555 it the way we were doing it before. 00:07:30.555 --> 00:07:32.912 Cal: And it sounds like to me that went fairly well. 00:07:34.247 --> 00:07:34.647 Ethon: Yeah. 00:07:34.672 --> 00:07:38.629 The biggest thing was I remember that fall we were sitting around, it was 00:07:38.629 --> 00:07:43.219 like end of September, early October, and we were sitting around and we were 00:07:43.219 --> 00:07:48.239 just sitting at our bonfire and we were like, oh my gosh, we would we should 00:07:48.239 --> 00:07:49.889 be working on a combine right now. 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:53.999 But we didn't have to because we didn't have any soybeans to pick. 00:07:54.085 --> 00:07:56.215 It was just cows out grazing. 00:07:56.215 --> 00:07:58.045 So then we were like, wow, this is. 00:07:58.840 --> 00:07:59.560 Actually really nice. 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.689 You don't have to spend, three weeks trying to get a combine up and running. 00:08:04.689 --> 00:08:09.309 Cal: While I have not done row crops, I can associate that 00:08:09.309 --> 00:08:13.479 with our haying machinery and when we used to be our own hay, 00:08:13.609 --> 00:08:19.416 Was always quite involved in, and we never had the best equipment, so it 00:08:19.416 --> 00:08:20.916 always required a lot of work on them. 00:08:22.236 --> 00:08:22.656 Ethon: Yep. 00:08:22.996 --> 00:08:23.416 Yep. 00:08:23.416 --> 00:08:26.458 And we're not a super big acreage farm. 00:08:26.458 --> 00:08:27.808 I guess I should have mentioned that in the beginning. 00:08:27.808 --> 00:08:34.828 But when you spend a month or so getting a combine ready to run it for two days 00:08:34.923 --> 00:08:37.953 nonstop, and then you're just like, all right, now I'm done with that. 00:08:37.983 --> 00:08:41.603 It really kicks your butt when you spend all that time getting everything 00:08:41.723 --> 00:08:42.503 Cal: Oh yes. 00:08:43.043 --> 00:08:45.111 Ethon: and then you don't really even use it. 00:08:45.231 --> 00:08:46.911 You just have it for a little bit. 00:08:47.911 --> 00:08:50.431 Cal: You mentioned there about the acreage. 00:08:50.431 --> 00:08:52.001 How many acres are you running. 00:08:52.865 --> 00:08:57.845 Ethon: When we were doing row crop, we had we started, it was like 200 acres. 00:08:57.845 --> 00:08:59.345 That was before I got involved. 00:08:59.345 --> 00:09:04.325 And then everybody starts selling land to build houses on and things like that. 00:09:04.325 --> 00:09:11.063 And when I took over, we had about 40 acres left and then some other folks 00:09:11.123 --> 00:09:13.823 started to sell off what we had for that. 00:09:14.303 --> 00:09:23.203 And then now that we have, what we have for grazing is about 20, about 25 acres. 00:09:23.263 --> 00:09:24.553 That's what we have for grazing right now. 00:09:25.843 --> 00:09:26.533 Cal: Oh yes. 00:09:26.953 --> 00:09:30.685 Yeah, and that's the size that makes it difficult to keep all 00:09:30.685 --> 00:09:32.035 the machinery up and going. 00:09:32.785 --> 00:09:33.865 Ethon: Yeah, exactly. 00:09:34.375 --> 00:09:34.525 And. 00:09:35.695 --> 00:09:40.843 When I got started, when I took over the books and everything that, that first year 00:09:40.843 --> 00:09:45.571 where we were doing all the conventional stuff, I looked at what we were making 00:09:45.571 --> 00:09:49.501 per acre, and it was $140 loss per acre. 00:09:49.921 --> 00:09:54.450 And then that was also a nice kick to be like, okay, we need to figure out 00:09:54.510 --> 00:09:57.240 something else or another way to do this. 00:09:58.710 --> 00:09:59.016 Cal: Yes. 00:09:59.045 --> 00:10:02.795 And when you're losing money per acre, that's when you're glad 00:10:02.800 --> 00:10:04.115 you don't have a lot of acreage 00:10:04.705 --> 00:10:06.245 Ethon: Yeah, . Yeah, for sure. 00:10:06.665 --> 00:10:06.995 Yeah. 00:10:07.025 --> 00:10:08.945 It's, it hurts, but just not as bad. 00:10:10.925 --> 00:10:11.615 Cal: You are right. 00:10:11.645 --> 00:10:12.215 Yes. 00:10:12.695 --> 00:10:12.785 Yeah. 00:10:13.295 --> 00:10:16.585 So you got, so you did your experiment with just a couple of 00:10:16.585 --> 00:10:18.308 head you said about nine acres. 00:10:18.308 --> 00:10:19.794 How many cows did you put on it? 00:10:19.818 --> 00:10:25.804 Ethon: We started out with one bull and one cow and her calf, so it was just, 00:10:26.209 --> 00:10:29.129 I guess two and a half animal units. 00:10:29.157 --> 00:10:34.699 And we, I got the bowl since I was, since Craig, Judy was the one that 00:10:34.699 --> 00:10:35.959 I had learned everything about. 00:10:35.959 --> 00:10:40.609 And the biggest thing that I had to sell everybody on was having tame cattle. 00:10:40.909 --> 00:10:44.239 Something that we weren't gonna have to worry about getting busting out of 00:10:44.239 --> 00:10:49.939 fences or coming after somebody when you got in the yard or into the pasture. 00:10:50.329 --> 00:10:50.579 And 00:10:50.584 --> 00:10:50.799 Cal: Yes. 00:10:51.459 --> 00:10:56.289 Ethon: I was like, okay, if I'm gonna buy a bull it's gonna be from somebody where 00:10:56.349 --> 00:11:00.849 I trust that I can go into their herd and I'm not gonna have to worry about 00:11:00.849 --> 00:11:02.829 getting trampled or anything like that. 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.027 So that's when I called up Greg Judy and I said, Hey, I'm, if I need to talk to 00:11:07.027 --> 00:11:09.408 you about getting a bull and and we did. 00:11:09.438 --> 00:11:11.967 And that was a really cool experience, going to talk to him 00:11:12.027 --> 00:11:13.647 and looking at his operation. 00:11:13.652 --> 00:11:19.051 And he gave a lot of pointers and really helped me and my brother along. 00:11:19.441 --> 00:11:23.534 and telling us some stuff that, that maybe some people might have known, but 00:11:23.594 --> 00:11:25.544 we didn't know about before we got going. 00:11:25.994 --> 00:11:29.958 And gave us some ideas, challenged us on some things, and then sent us 00:11:29.958 --> 00:11:36.008 off with his bull and the reason that even with only one cow that I wanted 00:11:36.008 --> 00:11:41.618 to have a bull was I don't have any of the working facilities or handling 00:11:41.618 --> 00:11:43.598 facilities or anything like that. 00:11:43.778 --> 00:11:47.601 And so I didn't want to try to do any kind of AI. 00:11:47.609 --> 00:11:49.374 I didn't grow up around cattle. 00:11:49.424 --> 00:11:52.959 A bull can tell when she's in heat a lot better than I can, that's for sure. 00:11:53.439 --> 00:11:56.792 And it, it costs more money to keep that bull and feed 00:11:56.792 --> 00:11:58.112 him and everything like that. 00:11:58.112 --> 00:12:02.026 But to be honest, one of the most amazing things that I saw was when we 00:12:02.031 --> 00:12:06.940 got the bull first, and when we had the cow out there when we brought her out 00:12:06.940 --> 00:12:11.617 there, that bull actually showed her, not to go through the electric wire. 00:12:11.641 --> 00:12:15.121 Kept her from running through electric wire and then also showed 00:12:15.481 --> 00:12:19.505 to use the mineral feeder and all that kind of stuff and kind of took 00:12:19.505 --> 00:12:21.407 all the training work out of me. 00:12:21.617 --> 00:12:25.743 And he did all that, which was surprising and was cool to see. 00:12:26.253 --> 00:12:30.150 And yeah so that's why even with only starting out with just that one cow 00:12:30.150 --> 00:12:33.746 decided yeah, we're gonna get this bull and hopefully it's worth the investment. 00:12:34.746 --> 00:12:40.366 Cal: Now, when you chose a cow, at that point were particular on what breed? 00:12:40.966 --> 00:12:44.486 Or do you just mainly look for something that's pretty docile? 00:12:44.542 --> 00:12:48.765 Ethon: I was hoping to get a South Poll cow, like everybody in the United 00:12:48.765 --> 00:12:53.460 States right now, but they're impossible to find and they're crazy expensive. 00:12:53.555 --> 00:12:56.105 And after I spent all that money on that bull I didn't have a lot 00:12:56.105 --> 00:12:57.755 of money left over to buy cows. 00:12:57.819 --> 00:13:01.752 We actually talked to Greg about that when we were there and we were like, 00:13:01.781 --> 00:13:05.841 what do you think about getting some cheaper cows and trying to breed up 00:13:05.880 --> 00:13:09.345 with the bull that we were getting from him and we talked about, what to 00:13:09.345 --> 00:13:11.272 look for and all those kinds of things. 00:13:11.272 --> 00:13:14.752 So I actually just went for something that was more local, that I could 00:13:14.752 --> 00:13:17.092 get affordably and I got lucky. 00:13:17.092 --> 00:13:20.236 There was a guy, he was an older guy in his seventies and he was 00:13:20.236 --> 00:13:21.659 just trying to get out of beef. 00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.719 He needed to have a shoulder replaced and stuff like that. 00:13:24.719 --> 00:13:27.119 And his wife didn't wanna take care of the cows while he was recovering. 00:13:27.749 --> 00:13:33.209 So he got rid of, he was getting rid of cow calf pairs that were bred and 00:13:33.269 --> 00:13:34.649 was getting rid of 'em pretty cheap. 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.531 So that's what we ended up going with for the first cow. 00:13:37.531 --> 00:13:38.431 And that's why 00:13:39.431 --> 00:13:41.231 Cal: Oh yes, very good. 00:13:41.231 --> 00:13:43.493 And yes, you highlight a issue. 00:13:43.493 --> 00:13:48.561 South Poll females are pretty expensive and in short supply, it seems. 00:13:49.476 --> 00:13:49.866 Ethon: Yeah. 00:13:49.898 --> 00:13:55.685 It costs almost to buy a cow or a heifer as it does to buy a bull from most places. 00:13:55.945 --> 00:13:59.997 And that doesn't make a lot of economical sense. 00:14:00.023 --> 00:14:02.423 If you're gonna buy, even if you're buying one, it doesn't 00:14:02.423 --> 00:14:03.563 make a lot of economical sense. 00:14:03.563 --> 00:14:06.953 But if you've got a mid-sized herd, I don't know how anybody could switch 00:14:06.953 --> 00:14:09.113 over to full South Poll like that. 00:14:10.113 --> 00:14:14.306 Cal: Yeah, it does make it, or I would think it'd make it difficult for 00:14:14.306 --> 00:14:16.796 those cows to be profitable real fast. 00:14:17.126 --> 00:14:21.416 But course everyone has a different situation, so they're doing a 00:14:21.416 --> 00:14:22.876 better job than me probably. 00:14:23.841 --> 00:14:24.661 Ethon: and Me Too. 00:14:25.496 --> 00:14:29.084 Cal: So you got that bull out there and you mentioned that he was used to your 00:14:29.554 --> 00:14:31.879 electric fence and your mineral feeder. 00:14:32.669 --> 00:14:32.799 Ethon: Mm-hmm. 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:33.179 Tell us 00:14:33.179 --> 00:14:36.464 Cal: about your infrastructure that you had in place for 00:14:36.464 --> 00:14:38.244 the, for your cow and bull. 00:14:39.124 --> 00:14:43.556 Ethon: So we have three wire high tensile electric fence. 00:14:43.566 --> 00:14:49.306 Used a Stafix battery energizer with a 50 watt solar panel on it 00:14:49.626 --> 00:14:51.082 with a deep cell marine battery. 00:14:51.082 --> 00:14:54.422 With 50 watt, that's enough to keep it running all the time. 00:14:54.482 --> 00:14:58.636 Even during the winter when you have those a lot less sunny days. 00:14:59.116 --> 00:15:02.467 We tried 30 watts, cuz that's what they tell you on the website or whatever, 00:15:02.472 --> 00:15:05.729 but it's not enough not enough juice to keep it going during the wintertime. 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:08.969 And so we have a three wire round. 00:15:08.969 --> 00:15:15.080 We use the timeless fence fence posts for the perimeter and then for the, 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:22.645 we do the temporary fencing, O'Brien step-in posts, the powerflex poly braid. 00:15:23.065 --> 00:15:28.450 And then we have some Taragate reels, and then we have some old the Leord rolls 00:15:28.545 --> 00:15:31.335 because Taragate reels are not cheap. 00:15:32.335 --> 00:15:33.835 Cal: No they aren't. 00:15:34.285 --> 00:15:36.085 They're pretty nice, but they're not cheap. 00:15:36.650 --> 00:15:38.085 Ethon: Yeah, they are really nice. 00:15:38.085 --> 00:15:43.210 But for the price of one terra reel, you could get 10 leord reels. 00:15:43.210 --> 00:15:47.544 I had, I only had two Taragate reels, and then that was like my Christmas 00:15:47.544 --> 00:15:50.482 present, every year I'd get another reel. 00:15:50.932 --> 00:15:54.492 And then since I've started having my brother help me for when I'm 00:15:54.492 --> 00:15:59.295 going for my day job he spends a lot more time moving them. 00:15:59.535 --> 00:16:04.186 And so he was a lot happier with having those Taragate reels than 00:16:04.191 --> 00:16:06.045 he was with the Lee cord reels. 00:16:06.295 --> 00:16:10.000 So since I'm asking him to go and do all that while I'm gone. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.180 I thought I better pony up and get a couple more of those, 00:16:13.180 --> 00:16:15.100 so then a lot easier for him. 00:16:15.850 --> 00:16:21.280 Cal: Now the timeless fence or timeless posts, they look really nice. 00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:26.197 In fact, signed up and got a sample, so they sent me a, just a few 00:16:26.197 --> 00:16:28.657 inches of T post so I could see it. 00:16:29.047 --> 00:16:32.317 And I know Greg Judy really promotes him on his channel. 00:16:33.007 --> 00:16:35.137 Are you pretty happy with the timeless post? 00:16:36.082 --> 00:16:36.532 Ethon: Oh yeah. 00:16:36.592 --> 00:16:37.852 I mean they're great. 00:16:37.882 --> 00:16:39.832 They're super easy to install. 00:16:40.192 --> 00:16:41.302 They're super light. 00:16:41.302 --> 00:16:44.452 You can carry around a whole box of 'em and not feel like you're 00:16:44.452 --> 00:16:45.982 gonna be dead by the end of the day. 00:16:46.081 --> 00:16:48.391 They hold up really well. 00:16:48.391 --> 00:16:49.381 They don't break. 00:16:49.561 --> 00:16:51.811 They're better than the fiberglass posts. 00:16:51.811 --> 00:16:56.041 They're just the fiberglass dowels cuz they don't break in the sun. 00:16:56.041 --> 00:16:57.901 You don't have to paint 'em, you don't have to drill 'em. 00:16:57.952 --> 00:17:00.171 Cuz we have a couple of those and those are a pain. 00:17:00.741 --> 00:17:07.371 And as far as compared to metal t-posts you just don't, you don't have the risk 00:17:07.431 --> 00:17:09.901 associated with grounding out your system. 00:17:09.914 --> 00:17:13.020 With those metal t-posts just because it's timeless, they're fully insulated. 00:17:13.067 --> 00:17:17.327 And for the price, when you figure in buying a T post and then all, if 00:17:17.327 --> 00:17:22.277 you're gonna put in a three or five wires, all the insulators on a T post, 00:17:22.907 --> 00:17:26.846 it doesn't come out to be all that much more expensive on a timeless. 00:17:27.056 --> 00:17:28.706 So I've been pretty happy with them. 00:17:29.006 --> 00:17:34.046 We had a tree fall down on one and they didn't break, just bent right over and 00:17:34.046 --> 00:17:37.676 then got the tree off and came right back up just like they talk about. 00:17:38.006 --> 00:17:40.457 So yeah, I've been very happy timeless Fence posts 00:17:42.177 --> 00:17:44.617 Cal: What kind of spacing did you use for your timeless. 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.360 Ethon: We did about 50 feet where we could. 00:17:48.427 --> 00:17:52.766 . We have some like little ditches and some little rises and things like that 00:17:52.766 --> 00:17:54.266 where we had to use a little bit more. 00:17:54.476 --> 00:17:57.206 We actually have a, I don't know what we call a pretty good 00:17:57.211 --> 00:17:59.014 sized hill behind our house. 00:17:59.104 --> 00:18:02.644 And so then you had, you gotta do every two or three feet or so, like 00:18:02.729 --> 00:18:04.419 when it's really on that incline. 00:18:04.929 --> 00:18:08.799 But yeah, we did about 50 feet we could get away with, and we're 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:10.959 pretty flat compared to most places. 00:18:11.046 --> 00:18:15.114 It's not South Dakota, but it's a lot flatter than Nebraska or any 00:18:15.114 --> 00:18:16.615 place like that when you look out. 00:18:17.125 --> 00:18:17.785 Cal: Oh yes. 00:18:18.785 --> 00:18:23.715 You also mentioned your mineral feeder, and we hadn't talked about this. 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:24.645 I don't think I saw it. 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.630 So I'm curious, are you using the individual minerals and 00:18:30.630 --> 00:18:33.480 feeding them or do you have a different type of mineral feeder? 00:18:34.455 --> 00:18:34.665 Ethon: Yeah. 00:18:34.665 --> 00:18:37.578 We do the cafeteria style 18, 00:18:37.893 --> 00:18:40.053 Cal: there's the word cafeteria style. 00:18:40.053 --> 00:18:41.373 I knew it was out there. 00:18:42.108 --> 00:18:42.514 Ethon: Yep. 00:18:42.585 --> 00:18:47.745 And that works really nice and you would think that it is just goofy, 00:18:47.865 --> 00:18:52.361 like how are the cattle gonna know what's what and pick, what they want. 00:18:52.811 --> 00:18:58.044 But it's pretty amazing, I had some soil soil sampling done before we got the 00:18:58.044 --> 00:19:02.214 cows on, and when you look at what's missing in the soil and then you look at 00:19:02.214 --> 00:19:06.673 what they're eating out of that mineral feeder it's literally exactly what 00:19:06.673 --> 00:19:08.861 we're low on our soil sampling test. 00:19:08.910 --> 00:19:13.419 Phosphorus grow soybeans, that's the number one thing that they suck out of 00:19:13.419 --> 00:19:16.719 the ground, and that's the number one thing that they go after in that feeder. 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.243 And with all the tillage and roundup and fertilizer that we've used, it 00:19:22.248 --> 00:19:24.413 makes the makes the soil really acidic. 00:19:24.803 --> 00:19:28.785 And so the acid neutralizer is another thing that they hammer all the time. 00:19:28.801 --> 00:19:33.797 They've never touched the the basic neutralizer and they've they're not a big 00:19:33.797 --> 00:19:36.197 fan of manganese either for some reason. 00:19:36.647 --> 00:19:39.875 But sodium and phosphorus and that acid neutralizer man, 00:19:39.875 --> 00:19:41.015 they put the hammer on it. 00:19:41.765 --> 00:19:45.675 And when they, once it gets wet, then they go after the copper, to help with the 00:19:45.735 --> 00:19:47.985 parasites and worms and things like that. 00:19:48.375 --> 00:19:49.515 So it's pretty amazing. 00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:52.799 When you look at based off the different times of the year and different 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:56.755 conditions, what it is that they're going after it it's pretty surprising 00:19:56.773 --> 00:19:58.405 and really opens your eyes on. 00:19:58.735 --> 00:20:02.305 What you might be missing when you're using a pre-made mineral mix. 00:20:03.305 --> 00:20:07.445 Cal: that's on my, I don't know if I'd call it my short list, but 00:20:07.445 --> 00:20:11.135 it is something for me to try the cafeteria style minerals, because 00:20:11.135 --> 00:20:12.965 right now I'm using a pre-mixed 00:20:13.264 --> 00:20:13.799 Mineral. 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:20.459 One thing that's caused me to shy away from the cafeteria style is either I 00:20:20.464 --> 00:20:26.856 have to buy a mineral feeder that can do that, and those are expensive and I 00:20:26.856 --> 00:20:31.416 don't know of any local, so I've gotta ship it in or I've gotta build one, which 00:20:31.416 --> 00:20:33.636 it doesn't look to be terrible to build. 00:20:34.446 --> 00:20:38.946 like you had mentioned ago with your off the farm job, you got a, some 00:20:38.946 --> 00:20:42.832 give and take there and probably if I just get in gear and do it, 00:20:43.102 --> 00:20:44.512 I'd have it done, but I haven't. 00:20:45.502 --> 00:20:45.832 Ethon: Yep. 00:20:46.012 --> 00:20:47.272 No, they are expensive. 00:20:47.272 --> 00:20:48.322 There's no doubt about that. 00:20:48.327 --> 00:20:50.846 And that's why I made my own and I got lucky. 00:20:50.846 --> 00:20:56.306 Had a bunch of scrap wood laying around and a bunch of old screws 00:20:56.311 --> 00:20:57.896 from some previous projects. 00:20:57.896 --> 00:20:59.813 And so I was able to throw it together. 00:20:59.877 --> 00:21:03.910 Just looking at how they look and figuring, okay, I've got 00:21:03.910 --> 00:21:08.099 this much wood, this is how big a cow's nose is so I should be 00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:09.659 able to get in this size of a bay. 00:21:09.659 --> 00:21:12.187 And I just made it that way and got lucky. 00:21:12.637 --> 00:21:17.551 But the one thing if you do make your own the one thing I'll say is you still have 00:21:17.551 --> 00:21:20.030 to spend the money to get the what is it? 00:21:20.030 --> 00:21:21.440 The conveyor lid. 00:21:21.770 --> 00:21:23.000 The conveyor belt lid 00:21:23.009 --> 00:21:24.996 Cal: wondering what you had put on top. 00:21:24.996 --> 00:21:29.018 Ethon: At first I tried to use a horse stall mat, which worked pretty 00:21:29.018 --> 00:21:31.504 good for about two or three months. 00:21:31.654 --> 00:21:36.184 And then after that, two or three months, then it just started to fall apart. 00:21:36.184 --> 00:21:39.904 And then there would be water leaking in there, and then you got, it fills a 00:21:39.904 --> 00:21:44.074 whole mineral thing and then the cows won't eat it because it gets gross. 00:21:44.074 --> 00:21:47.524 So then you gotta clean all that out and it's costing you all that mineral. 00:21:47.974 --> 00:21:52.622 So that's when I contacted the Free Choice Enterprises and got 00:21:52.622 --> 00:21:54.242 the conveyor belt from them. 00:21:54.842 --> 00:21:56.971 And that's what I ended up having to put on the top. 00:21:56.976 --> 00:21:59.821 And since I've done that, then it's been sealed up, doesn't 00:21:59.821 --> 00:22:01.775 get wet, and works really well. 00:22:02.075 --> 00:22:05.953 But yeah, you still have to put the money in on that, and it's still not 00:22:05.953 --> 00:22:10.193 cheap, but it's better than if you have to throw away two bays worth of mineral 00:22:10.223 --> 00:22:13.193 twice, then you've paid for it already. 00:22:13.266 --> 00:22:13.976 Cal: Oh yes. 00:22:15.776 --> 00:22:19.450 And that brings me to my next question, just going on this mineral tangent, 00:22:20.260 --> 00:22:25.090 purchasing those minerals, and you're working with a small number of head. 00:22:26.090 --> 00:22:29.360 So you're purchasing quite a bit and storing it. 00:22:29.570 --> 00:22:32.210 How do you store it to keep it in good shape? 00:22:33.230 --> 00:22:33.470 Ethon: Yeah. 00:22:33.516 --> 00:22:37.125 We have my dad and my uncle have a landscape company, and so we 00:22:37.125 --> 00:22:40.832 have a big barn for all the mowers and equipment that they use. 00:22:41.222 --> 00:22:46.565 And I just made a box outta wood, and that's where I throw 00:22:46.565 --> 00:22:48.033 those minerals in when I get 'em. 00:22:48.090 --> 00:22:50.550 It used to be from free choice. 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:55.131 If you bought 500 pounds of mineral, then the shipping would be free. 00:22:55.131 --> 00:22:58.712 The last time I talked to 'em though, they haven't been able to get their 00:22:58.742 --> 00:23:02.850 drivers back on the road, and so they don't offer the same deals. 00:23:02.850 --> 00:23:05.280 They help with shipping, but they, it's not the same. 00:23:05.340 --> 00:23:05.940 It's not free. 00:23:06.016 --> 00:23:11.528 . I still try to buy about 500 pounds worth and I just look and I like, I 00:23:11.528 --> 00:23:14.318 know I'm gonna need phosphorus, so then I buy a hundred pounds worth of 00:23:14.318 --> 00:23:16.778 phosphorus cause I know I'm gonna use it and then I'll buy a hundred pounds worth 00:23:16.778 --> 00:23:18.278 of sodium cause I know I'll use that. 00:23:18.788 --> 00:23:22.598 And then I'll just look at whatever's low and get one bag of that and 00:23:22.641 --> 00:23:24.171 fill out whatever's missing. 00:23:24.212 --> 00:23:26.894 So that, that's how I manage it. 00:23:26.954 --> 00:23:30.224 And it's pretty easy to store 'em as long as you're keeping 'em dry. 00:23:30.315 --> 00:23:33.585 And the reason I put 'em in a box is because I had 'em on a pallet 00:23:33.975 --> 00:23:37.933 and when they were just sitting on a pallet mice were able to get into 00:23:37.933 --> 00:23:41.773 'em and mice will get into anything and just make a mess out of it. 00:23:41.773 --> 00:23:45.703 So after we that, that's when I started putting them in the box. 00:23:45.703 --> 00:23:49.119 So then just keep the mice out, make it a little bit harder for 'em to get it. 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:52.759 Cal: About how often have you had to order mineral 00:23:52.828 --> 00:23:53.878 I that's really. 00:23:54.358 --> 00:23:58.708 As we talk about that for listeners, that's really subjective to what 00:23:58.708 --> 00:24:01.930 your cows are eating and how many cows you have going to it, 00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:03.971 but just to get a feel for it. 00:24:04.961 --> 00:24:10.446 Ethon: Yeah, I've in two years, I've bought about three 00:24:10.446 --> 00:24:13.111 loads, so about 1500 pounds. 00:24:13.411 --> 00:24:16.582 But I haven't used 1500 pounds. 00:24:16.582 --> 00:24:20.674 I guess it, I have a lot of the onesie twosies that are still 00:24:20.679 --> 00:24:22.462 sitting there waiting to get used. 00:24:22.469 --> 00:24:25.738 But the phosphorus and things like that, that I run through all the time I've 00:24:25.738 --> 00:24:27.718 used a couple hundred pounds of that. 00:24:28.288 --> 00:24:32.472 And I will say when your animals are grazing is when they'll eat the most 00:24:32.477 --> 00:24:36.522 amount of mineral, is what I've found anyhow, is that when they're grazing, they 00:24:36.552 --> 00:24:40.062 really will hit those minerals because it's whatever's deficient in your soil. 00:24:40.812 --> 00:24:44.202 they need to get after whatever it is that they're missing to 00:24:44.202 --> 00:24:46.002 fill in their nutritional gaps. 00:24:46.182 --> 00:24:54.372 And so if you're buying hay from somebody who either puts down phosphorus or potash 00:24:54.372 --> 00:24:59.444 or whatever on their hayfield, then they're not gonna need as much cuz it's 00:24:59.444 --> 00:25:01.754 gonna be there in the actual forage. 00:25:02.114 --> 00:25:05.714 But when they go back to grazing in the spring, when things are a little 00:25:05.714 --> 00:25:09.044 more moist and then the mineral content and the grass is lower 00:25:09.044 --> 00:25:13.601 anyhow, then they really start to put the hammer on on those minerals. 00:25:14.601 --> 00:25:15.231 Cal: Oh yes. 00:25:15.231 --> 00:25:15.711 Yeah. 00:25:17.491 --> 00:25:20.461 So you, so let's jump back to your journey a little bit. 00:25:20.461 --> 00:25:24.721 I appreciate you humoring me and going down and talking about those minerals. 00:25:24.721 --> 00:25:29.770 That's something, it's on one of my short lists to get there at some point. 00:25:29.770 --> 00:25:35.640 I haven't, I don't have a timeframe yet, but I can see how it would be beneficial. 00:25:36.865 --> 00:25:40.765 just a lot of money, so it's always a toss up in my head. 00:25:41.625 --> 00:25:46.245 You got your bull and you got your cow and getting started. 00:25:47.445 --> 00:25:50.196 What did you, how did you go from there? 00:25:50.219 --> 00:25:53.853 Ethon: We took, I ended up getting the bull and cow the bowl. 00:25:53.858 --> 00:25:58.533 I got Labor Day of 2020, so May 31st. 00:25:58.953 --> 00:26:05.534 And then I got the cow about five days later, the cow calf pair and then I grazed 00:26:05.534 --> 00:26:13.255 them on what I had and which wasn't a lot because we had very poor, very dead soils. 00:26:13.290 --> 00:26:17.629 We have a lot of Sandhills where we have very low moisture content. 00:26:17.629 --> 00:26:21.177 Most of the topsoil that was on those, and they're not really even 00:26:21.177 --> 00:26:25.334 hills, they're just higher points in the field and all that topsoil 00:26:25.334 --> 00:26:27.494 has gone down into the low spots. 00:26:27.614 --> 00:26:31.904 And so we were grazing through hardly anything when we were up there. 00:26:31.904 --> 00:26:34.064 And then just trying to rush into those low spots where we 00:26:34.064 --> 00:26:35.234 could get some grass again. 00:26:35.774 --> 00:26:39.390 And then supplemented hay for them throughout the winter. 00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:46.273 And when we came back around that following year in, in May I was going to 00:26:46.273 --> 00:26:48.503 need to take the bull off of the cow. 00:26:48.863 --> 00:26:53.857 And I don't have a pen or a corral or anything like that where I could lock him 00:26:53.857 --> 00:26:56.186 up in for a couple months or whatever. 00:26:56.256 --> 00:27:01.901 I ended up buying a buddy animal a jersey steer from eastern Ohio cuz that was the 00:27:01.901 --> 00:27:03.425 only place was selling 'em at the time. 00:27:03.425 --> 00:27:08.336 Cuz it's really hard to find cheap steers in the springtime . It's very 00:27:08.336 --> 00:27:10.227 hard to do not the time to buy cattle. 00:27:10.287 --> 00:27:11.097 But I needed them. 00:27:11.097 --> 00:27:15.987 So I went to eastern Ohio to a dairy and was able to get that 00:27:15.987 --> 00:27:17.787 jersey steer and bring him back. 00:27:18.597 --> 00:27:25.226 And initially the plan was to leave the cow and her heifer calf back at my place. 00:27:25.226 --> 00:27:29.696 And then I'd take the jersey and the bull to this other property that I was able 00:27:29.701 --> 00:27:33.339 to get was about five acres so I could have 'em over there for a couple months. 00:27:34.194 --> 00:27:40.284 But the heifer calf out of that cow calf pair was so rank and 00:27:40.344 --> 00:27:43.371 nasty and just uncooperative. 00:27:43.521 --> 00:27:47.781 She is, she had a lot of Brahmin in them in her, and I know a lot of people like 00:27:47.971 --> 00:27:48.711 Cal: Oh yes. 00:27:49.251 --> 00:27:52.731 Ethon: And I'm not saying that anything bad about 'em, I'm just saying 00:27:52.731 --> 00:27:54.501 they're not for me, that's for sure. 00:27:55.461 --> 00:27:56.121 Cal: Oh yes. 00:27:56.171 --> 00:27:56.521 Yo. 00:27:56.751 --> 00:28:01.911 Ethon: so she wasn't very cooperative and she actually jumped the fence when 00:28:01.911 --> 00:28:03.681 we were trying to get her in a trailer. 00:28:04.491 --> 00:28:08.871 And so what we ended up doing was taking the steer in the cow together and we had 00:28:08.871 --> 00:28:13.066 already determined that we were gonna harvest that heifer for beef just because 00:28:13.066 --> 00:28:17.602 we didn't want to breed her back just cuz she was so flighty And rank the bull 00:28:17.602 --> 00:28:22.252 and that heifer stayed back home and then the cow and that steer went over to the 00:28:22.300 --> 00:28:25.930 other property for a couple months until we could bring 'em back together again. 00:28:26.260 --> 00:28:30.928 Get her bred . So that was in May throughout the summer. 00:28:31.498 --> 00:28:37.862 And then I was in talks with somebody with the metro parks in our area, and they 00:28:37.862 --> 00:28:43.876 wanted to, they were talking about wanting to try and do a patch burn grazing trial. 00:28:44.236 --> 00:28:47.411 And the acres that they were saying they're wanting to 00:28:47.411 --> 00:28:48.821 do it on about 10 acres. 00:28:48.821 --> 00:28:52.871 And so I was like, I'm gonna need a couple more cows if I'm gonna, or a 00:28:52.871 --> 00:28:56.651 couple more head if I was gonna try and do that on top of what I had. 00:28:56.981 --> 00:29:04.155 So then the November of 2021, I got another cow calf pair and 00:29:04.155 --> 00:29:05.775 then took them through the winter. 00:29:06.135 --> 00:29:10.817 And now coming up here in about mid-May, hopefully we will be 00:29:10.822 --> 00:29:14.569 taking the cows and the steer calf. 00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.275 Over to this patch burn grazing property when we have to pull 00:29:18.275 --> 00:29:19.745 the bull off of the cows. 00:29:21.005 --> 00:29:24.862 And then we'll run them there for a little while and then bring the bull 00:29:24.862 --> 00:29:29.107 and that jersey steer back in with them and try to get as much grass 00:29:29.107 --> 00:29:32.677 as we can out of that new property and manage the growth for them. 00:29:33.067 --> 00:29:37.817 And then bring them back here, back to our home place and the couple, or the 00:29:37.817 --> 00:29:39.572 other property that I have up the road. 00:29:40.572 --> 00:29:41.412 Cal: Oh, very good. 00:29:41.472 --> 00:29:44.172 Tell us a little bit more about that patch burn grazing. 00:29:44.997 --> 00:29:45.376 Ethon: Okay. 00:29:45.430 --> 00:29:48.760 In our area, I don't know if it's like this, where you're from, 00:29:48.760 --> 00:29:53.797 but we have a pretty big metro parks program in the Toledo area. 00:29:54.247 --> 00:29:58.343 And it's a pretty big entity and they have quite a bit of property and they 00:29:58.343 --> 00:30:04.567 focus on giving places for recreation for people, but then they also focus 00:30:04.627 --> 00:30:10.280 on bringing more natural areas that are either in cities or if they're further 00:30:10.280 --> 00:30:15.058 out in the country they're more of just a native prairie places for ground nesting 00:30:15.058 --> 00:30:17.104 birds and things like that is their goal. 00:30:17.684 --> 00:30:25.111 They want to do this trial of burning the native warm season grasses and then having 00:30:25.116 --> 00:30:27.901 grazers like what the bison would've done. 00:30:28.651 --> 00:30:33.942 And we're gonna use my cattle to simulate that those bison and having 00:30:33.942 --> 00:30:38.741 them come in and graze all of the native, warm season grasses down. 00:30:39.041 --> 00:30:43.737 Because as of right now they don't have anything other than burning that they use, 00:30:44.037 --> 00:30:46.077 which means they burn it in the spring. 00:30:46.632 --> 00:30:49.692 and then all that grass goes to senescence in July. 00:30:49.756 --> 00:30:50.536 If you're lucky. 00:30:50.626 --> 00:30:54.595 And then it just turns into a bunch of brown twigs and sticks out there. 00:30:55.105 --> 00:30:58.439 And so there it's of started to take over the whole area. 00:30:58.439 --> 00:31:03.319 And then you have this monoculture of Indian grass or switch grass or whatever 00:31:03.324 --> 00:31:05.399 it may be in that particular area. 00:31:05.819 --> 00:31:08.224 And so they want to prevent the monoculture. 00:31:08.224 --> 00:31:12.097 They want to have more diversity, they want to increase the bird 00:31:12.307 --> 00:31:16.267 populations, both ground nesting and any other kind of bird. 00:31:16.657 --> 00:31:20.522 And they've found this area that would be fairly easy to fence and 00:31:20.557 --> 00:31:23.107 it's actually on a birding trail. 00:31:23.737 --> 00:31:27.937 And so they wanted to see, okay, if we bring in these grazers, what is that 00:31:27.942 --> 00:31:33.337 gonna do for not only the grass and forge species that are out there, but what 00:31:33.337 --> 00:31:37.477 is that gonna mean for the birds and the wildlife and everything like that? 00:31:37.541 --> 00:31:38.411 We're gonna try it. 00:31:38.441 --> 00:31:39.791 We're gonna see what happens. 00:31:39.815 --> 00:31:44.315 I'm thinking that it's definitely gonna increase the bird population cuz that was 00:31:44.315 --> 00:31:49.295 the number one thing that we saw back at our place when we moved from row crop and 00:31:49.295 --> 00:31:54.427 brought in the cattle is one, you have a lot more bugs and two, you get a lot 00:31:54.432 --> 00:31:56.336 more birds because of all those bugs. 00:31:56.816 --> 00:32:03.194 And so if we can keep all those native warm seasons in the growth part of their 00:32:03.194 --> 00:32:08.974 growth curve and not getting to senescence and dying out, then we'll be able to keep 00:32:08.974 --> 00:32:13.474 everything palatable for all the bugs and bunny rabbits and everything like that. 00:32:13.474 --> 00:32:17.954 And keep the cattle in good condition and bring in a lot more wildlife for 00:32:17.954 --> 00:32:20.384 them and just make everybody happy. 00:32:20.624 --> 00:32:21.284 That's the plan. 00:32:22.284 --> 00:32:23.904 Cal: I hope it goes really well. 00:32:23.904 --> 00:32:24.894 It sounds good. 00:32:24.955 --> 00:32:26.048 One question on it. 00:32:26.108 --> 00:32:30.038 You said they found a area that's fairly easy to fence. 00:32:30.043 --> 00:32:34.632 How are you all fencing that and did you say it's on a trail also? 00:32:34.632 --> 00:32:36.112 So there'll be some human contact. 00:32:37.347 --> 00:32:37.707 Ethon: Yeah. 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.084 I pretty much told him to just mimic what I'm doing at my house. 00:32:42.084 --> 00:32:45.639 So high tensile electric timeless fence posts. 00:32:45.639 --> 00:32:49.392 Instead of three wires, we're gonna do five because it's not behind my 00:32:49.392 --> 00:32:52.692 house, so I can't watch 'em all the time and make sure that the cows 00:32:52.692 --> 00:32:57.373 are in and yeah, there are people that are going to be in contact. 00:32:57.373 --> 00:33:02.023 There's a, there's well in contact there's a birding trail that's, it's 00:33:02.041 --> 00:33:05.382 they're gonna have an easement, the front of the fence and the road. 00:33:05.682 --> 00:33:08.038 And then the birding trail is on the other side of the road. 00:33:08.038 --> 00:33:11.788 So people will be going down the road and down that trail and be able to take a look 00:33:11.846 --> 00:33:11.936 Cal: yes. 00:33:11.983 --> 00:33:13.456 Ethon: At the animals that are out there. 00:33:13.483 --> 00:33:17.750 But it's not that they're gonna be moving through the actual 00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:19.470 pasture or anything like that. 00:33:19.503 --> 00:33:24.824 Maybe later if we can convince them to fence in those bigger areas and 00:33:25.034 --> 00:33:29.234 possibly work out a way to fence in the trails and everything so we can 00:33:29.324 --> 00:33:32.565 use the cattle in more areas then maybe that's something that we could try. 00:33:32.565 --> 00:33:36.795 But right now we're just trying to keep it simple and easy and just prove out the 00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:37.830 Cal: Oh yes. 00:33:37.995 --> 00:33:41.279 Ethon: crazy spending all kinds of money fencing everything off, yeah. 00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:41.702 Cal: Very good. 00:33:41.707 --> 00:33:43.922 I'm excited to see how that goes for you. 00:33:44.012 --> 00:33:45.032 I hope it goes well. 00:33:45.947 --> 00:33:46.307 Ethon: Thank you. 00:33:46.307 --> 00:33:46.847 Yeah, me too. 00:33:47.432 --> 00:33:53.312 Cal: in addition to beef cattle, you all also have poultry. 00:33:54.527 --> 00:33:55.467 Ethon: Yep, that's right. 00:33:55.527 --> 00:33:56.893 We do pasture poultry. 00:33:56.923 --> 00:34:00.823 We follow the kind of the Joel Saladin style. 00:34:00.853 --> 00:34:05.219 We have the that little low to the ground chicken structure and we 00:34:05.219 --> 00:34:08.522 move 'em every day sometimes twice a day when they get really big. 00:34:08.522 --> 00:34:13.952 Cuz if you got 80 birds in 120 square feet, they'll tear up some pasture. 00:34:14.042 --> 00:34:17.579 Especially on some of our spots that are a little weaker in the sandier 00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:20.949 spots they'll do quite a number on 'em if you leave 'em there for 24 hours. 00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:25.470 So we'll move twice a day once they get to be about five weeks or older. 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:30.408 And we started out in doing the non GMO grain. 00:34:30.408 --> 00:34:33.748 We kinda went in whole hog with all that. 00:34:33.748 --> 00:34:38.035 And then we raised some for ourself, and then we sold what we had left. 00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:42.619 Or we sold excess to anybody who we could wanted to try 'em and wanted 00:34:42.619 --> 00:34:45.158 to move to a pasture based diet. 00:34:45.158 --> 00:34:45.728 Things like that. 00:34:46.728 --> 00:34:47.458 Cal: Very good. 00:34:47.458 --> 00:34:52.918 And is this going to be how many years of doing the Pastor Poultry? 00:34:53.743 --> 00:34:57.380 Ethon: Pastured poultry last year was the first time that we had tried it. 00:34:57.380 --> 00:35:03.844 I had been grow, or I had been raising chickens since I was probably, I 00:35:03.849 --> 00:35:05.764 wanna say eight years old maybe. 00:35:05.817 --> 00:35:09.430 That was the livestock, if you wanna call 'em that species that 00:35:09.430 --> 00:35:13.507 I was able to get into, just cuz they're not as much of an investment. 00:35:13.567 --> 00:35:18.316 And if something goes wrong and you lose six chickens that cost you, 00:35:18.352 --> 00:35:22.468 $5 a piece, it's a lot easier to handle than, losing one cow that's 00:35:23.098 --> 00:35:25.781 $1,500 or $2,000 or whatever. 00:35:25.781 --> 00:35:30.029 So yeah, I had done a lot of work with poultry, but all 00:35:30.029 --> 00:35:32.219 in the conventional style. 00:35:32.279 --> 00:35:35.830 I'd raised broilers before, conventionally and everything like that. 00:35:35.868 --> 00:35:40.068 But the first, this was the, this past year was the first year that we 00:35:40.068 --> 00:35:42.048 did it in the pasture based model. 00:35:43.048 --> 00:35:45.598 Cal: what did you find the most challenging about it? 00:35:46.598 --> 00:35:53.408 Ethon: The most challenging thing was probably moving the water 00:35:53.438 --> 00:35:55.958 and food to them in our pasture. 00:35:56.298 --> 00:35:59.639 We probably could have made it easier on ourselves if we kept them of in the 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:04.739 front part, but the area that needed it the most was almost at the back. 00:36:05.249 --> 00:36:11.847 So we, had 'em, we had 'em back there and 80 cornish cross chickens eat 00:36:11.847 --> 00:36:14.647 a lot of grain and if you're moving, 00:36:14.877 --> 00:36:15.937 Cal: yes, they do. 00:36:16.597 --> 00:36:21.258 Ethon: so unless you keep a grain feed source with them all the time. 00:36:21.337 --> 00:36:26.559 If you're walking, a thousand feet or 800 feet every day carrying a couple of five 00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:29.207 gallon buckets that can be a real pain. 00:36:29.657 --> 00:36:31.787 And they go through a lot of water every day too. 00:36:31.792 --> 00:36:36.245 If you're in July they'll drink 8, 8, 10 gallons of water. 00:36:36.245 --> 00:36:38.105 You gotta fill their water twice a day. 00:36:38.435 --> 00:36:42.755 And unless you have a way that you can easily get water to 00:36:42.755 --> 00:36:44.158 'em that can be a real pain. 00:36:44.368 --> 00:36:50.109 And we used our cattle watering system to fill their waters, but we still 00:36:50.109 --> 00:36:54.370 had to bucket it from the cattle system and then take it over to where 00:36:54.370 --> 00:36:55.900 the little shelter was for them. 00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:57.430 So there's still a lot of handling. 00:36:57.448 --> 00:36:59.908 But yeah, they made a lot better than bringing the water all the 00:36:59.908 --> 00:37:03.028 way from back up at her house, that would've been not fun. 00:37:04.348 --> 00:37:05.518 . That's one thing I don't like doing. 00:37:05.518 --> 00:37:06.808 I don't like moving water. 00:37:06.847 --> 00:37:11.792 I really do not like moving water from all those years of even doing poultry and 00:37:12.292 --> 00:37:16.292 constantly filling five gallon buckets and taking 'em out when we had all kinds 00:37:16.297 --> 00:37:18.192 of laying hands and everything like that. 00:37:18.230 --> 00:37:19.160 I don't like doing that. 00:37:19.190 --> 00:37:22.746 So that's the number one thing that could really beat you up if you got 00:37:22.746 --> 00:37:24.726 super involved with a pastured poultry. 00:37:24.731 --> 00:37:28.056 If you don't have a easy way of watering them, that can really 00:37:28.061 --> 00:37:29.346 wear you out after a little while. 00:37:30.346 --> 00:37:34.272 Cal: Did you direct market very many of the birds last year? 00:37:34.313 --> 00:37:38.019 Ethon: Yeah, we did about somewhere between three quarters, two thirds, 00:37:38.024 --> 00:37:40.115 something like that that we sold. 00:37:41.075 --> 00:37:45.455 Various people, some people that just came to the website that I have and wanted 00:37:45.455 --> 00:37:50.225 to buy some chickens, some people saw on Instagram that we had chickens and 00:37:50.230 --> 00:37:54.472 for asking if they could get some some friends and family that had bought some. 00:37:54.472 --> 00:37:57.999 We didn't sell all of 'em to people, but we sold a handful of them. 00:37:57.999 --> 00:38:02.031 And actually that is by far the hardest part of it I would say. 00:38:02.124 --> 00:38:04.014 Direct marketing it to people. 00:38:04.074 --> 00:38:10.371 That is the most difficult part of the any kind of pasture model 00:38:11.031 --> 00:38:16.911 because you gotta convince people to not buy it in the fancy package. 00:38:17.001 --> 00:38:21.411 You gotta convince 'em to buy a whole bird unless you take the time to part 'em out. 00:38:21.441 --> 00:38:27.171 But it, man, it takes a long time and it can cost you a lot of labor 00:38:27.261 --> 00:38:28.581 if you have somebody helping you. 00:38:28.613 --> 00:38:34.160 And then you gotta convince 'em that they have to pay more than what they're 00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:38.060 getting with all those amenities and the fancy packaging and everything like 00:38:38.060 --> 00:38:41.780 that, because you're giving 'em non GMO grain and they're raised on pasture and 00:38:41.785 --> 00:38:46.290 it, so when you gotta convince 'em of all that stuff and then you gotta get 00:38:46.290 --> 00:38:48.450 'em to come to your place to buy it. 00:38:49.050 --> 00:38:53.520 So that's by far the hardest part out of all of it. 00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:59.100 Cal: Are you expanding chicken numbers this year or continuing about the same? 00:39:00.232 --> 00:39:05.641 Ethon: We're gonna try doing the same amount of Cornish cross and then we're 00:39:05.641 --> 00:39:10.552 gonna do about half of a shelter's worth of the, what are they, the Freedom Rangers 00:39:10.552 --> 00:39:13.802 or the Red Rangers, and then having some. 00:39:14.462 --> 00:39:14.702 , yeah. 00:39:14.702 --> 00:39:18.272 Freedom Rangers and having some ducks with those freedom rangers 00:39:18.332 --> 00:39:22.365 and just mixing it up and seeing if people would be interested in trying 00:39:22.365 --> 00:39:24.661 those other types of fowl as well. 00:39:24.684 --> 00:39:29.417 But we're gonna keep that same amount of the Cornish cross just because say 00:39:29.417 --> 00:39:35.087 what you will about a Cornish cross chicken, but they grow really fast. 00:39:35.147 --> 00:39:39.947 They take less feed than any other animal or any other chicken and 00:39:39.947 --> 00:39:43.777 they're a lot easier to pluck and all that kind of stuff than your 00:39:43.782 --> 00:39:46.057 more quote unquote heritage breeds. 00:39:46.121 --> 00:39:48.221 And people like 'em, they like how they look. 00:39:48.251 --> 00:39:50.801 They look like a nice juicy chicken. 00:39:50.801 --> 00:39:54.407 They have a nice big double breast on 'em and, that's what people are used to. 00:39:54.407 --> 00:39:55.584 And so that's what they want. 00:39:55.674 --> 00:40:00.149 So you it's one less thing that you gotta convince somebody try . Yeah. 00:40:01.409 --> 00:40:01.629 Yep. 00:40:01.629 --> 00:40:02.175 Cal: And you're right. 00:40:02.175 --> 00:40:07.545 People's used to seeing that form factor in the stores and it's amazing 00:40:07.545 --> 00:40:11.055 how fast those Cornish crosses grow. 00:40:11.076 --> 00:40:11.669 Ethon: Oh yeah. 00:40:12.869 --> 00:40:13.109 Yep. 00:40:13.109 --> 00:40:16.542 They, that's just, they're race cars, , they go off of jet 00:40:16.547 --> 00:40:19.254 fuel they just go fast fast. 00:40:19.809 --> 00:40:24.936 Cal: Well, Ethon before we get to our famous four questions tell us a little 00:40:24.936 --> 00:40:26.706 bit about the future for your farm. 00:40:27.666 --> 00:40:29.816 Where do you see and it going? 00:40:29.832 --> 00:40:32.712 Ethon: The hope is that we're gonna continue to grow. 00:40:32.712 --> 00:40:33.617 That's the idea. 00:40:33.666 --> 00:40:37.446 It's definitely a lot easier to scale up with the poultry side of 00:40:37.446 --> 00:40:41.721 things just because you need a lot less land to run the chickens on. 00:40:41.852 --> 00:40:46.171 But my goal is to increase the amount of land that we can run 00:40:46.176 --> 00:40:49.081 the cattle on, because that's, I really like doing the cattle. 00:40:49.081 --> 00:40:52.951 I love grazing, I love watching them graze and moving 'em through 00:40:52.951 --> 00:40:54.452 all the grass and everything. 00:40:54.492 --> 00:40:58.812 We're gonna try to get more cattle so we can raise more grass-finished 00:40:58.812 --> 00:41:04.047 beef for people and just try to increase our herd numbers if we can. 00:41:04.073 --> 00:41:07.742 And that's all dependent on what we can do with the land base and try to 00:41:07.742 --> 00:41:13.017 grow, hopefully the this Park Patch Burn and Grazing program so that we 00:41:13.017 --> 00:41:18.238 can have a lot more access to land and move forward with growing that herd. 00:41:18.802 --> 00:41:23.852 Cal: Yeah, the access to land is a tough one for everyone its seems 00:41:24.862 --> 00:41:27.361 Ethon: I was just gonna say there's no doubt that it's tough to get a 00:41:27.361 --> 00:41:29.831 lot of access to land around us. 00:41:29.861 --> 00:41:31.121 It's all row crop. 00:41:31.176 --> 00:41:37.030 Unless you have a pig, a confinement pig house everything around us is 00:41:37.035 --> 00:41:39.880 corn and soybeans and sometimes wheat. 00:41:39.892 --> 00:41:42.042 You just don't see cattle grazing. 00:41:42.282 --> 00:41:47.429 And trying to convince people that having cows grazing is not the 00:41:47.429 --> 00:41:51.943 same as having them in a lot behind the barn is another thing to try 00:41:51.943 --> 00:41:53.203 and get 'em on their property. 00:41:53.203 --> 00:41:56.204 And instead they just say, the tractor's here in the spring and then they're 00:41:56.204 --> 00:41:57.614 here in the fall, and then that's it. 00:41:57.614 --> 00:42:00.404 And I don't have to worry about anything and don't have to worry 00:42:00.404 --> 00:42:03.842 about cows getting out and getting on my front porch or whatever. 00:42:03.842 --> 00:42:06.952 So it's just a lot easier to sell people on just staying 00:42:06.952 --> 00:42:08.572 the same with all the row crop. 00:42:08.632 --> 00:42:13.768 And it's definitely a lot more to try and convince 'em for their idea of 00:42:13.768 --> 00:42:17.426 what cattle are and try to convince 'em that, no, that's not how, it's 00:42:17.426 --> 00:42:22.005 not what you think, but yeah it's just tough to move people in that direction. 00:42:22.514 --> 00:42:23.714 Cal: yes it is. 00:42:23.744 --> 00:42:28.912 Anytime you're doing something that's not the same as everyone else or a 00:42:28.912 --> 00:42:31.942 little bit different than what people's been exposed to it takes a while. 00:42:31.971 --> 00:42:32.255 Yeah. 00:42:33.255 --> 00:42:37.245 Ethan, it is time for our famous four questions. 00:42:37.635 --> 00:42:40.335 Same four questions we ask of all of our guests. 00:42:40.935 --> 00:42:45.315 Yes, I did steal that off The Bigger Pockets podcast, so don't tell them. 00:42:46.725 --> 00:42:47.085 Okay. 00:42:47.145 --> 00:42:53.325 Our first question, what's your favorite Grazing Grass book or resource? 00:42:54.750 --> 00:43:01.452 Ethon: So it's very hard for me to decide because I want to say any book written 00:43:01.452 --> 00:43:06.062 by Greg Judy and his YouTube page, but a lot of people suggest his book. 00:43:06.103 --> 00:43:11.736 I was thinking about this and I think if from the lens of cattle, a really 00:43:11.736 --> 00:43:14.286 good book is Before You Have a Cow. 00:43:14.676 --> 00:43:17.534 It's written by Teddy Gentry and Dr. 00:43:17.534 --> 00:43:18.464 Allen Williams. 00:43:18.944 --> 00:43:24.212 And it does focus on South Poll since Teddy Gentry's the one who started it. 00:43:24.217 --> 00:43:30.794 But the main focus is showing you that the smaller framed easier keeping cow 00:43:30.884 --> 00:43:34.399 is what's gonna make you money and then showing you how and showing you 00:43:34.399 --> 00:43:37.579 if you're gonna be breeding animals, this is what you wanna look for. 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:39.649 These are the kind of things to expect. 00:43:40.249 --> 00:43:45.445 And so if you're somebody who's into into cattle already and are of thinking about 00:43:45.445 --> 00:43:50.321 moving towards the more regenerative path before you have a cow is a really 00:43:50.321 --> 00:43:54.342 good book to convince you that, yeah, I think this is a good idea with a 00:43:54.342 --> 00:43:57.796 lot of the statistics and the dollar values that they lay out for you. 00:43:58.546 --> 00:44:04.191 And then I have another book if you're interested in doing the pastured poultry, 00:44:04.251 --> 00:44:07.081 whether that's egg layers or meat birds. 00:44:07.125 --> 00:44:14.655 There's a book called Polyface Designs, and that book is worth its weight in gold. 00:44:15.165 --> 00:44:21.105 They lay out exactly how they make all of their, or not all of their structures, 00:44:21.105 --> 00:44:22.541 but their well known structures. 00:44:23.396 --> 00:44:28.836 I tried making a portable pasture poultry thing on my own, just knowing 00:44:28.836 --> 00:44:32.436 what they looked like and just using what I had and trying to do that. 00:44:32.436 --> 00:44:35.136 And it was impossible to move. 00:44:35.202 --> 00:44:36.882 It's just a huge pain. 00:44:36.962 --> 00:44:38.550 And was it would never work. 00:44:38.597 --> 00:44:41.960 I, there's no way I could have done it for eight weeks moving those birds around. 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:48.818 But in about two evenings, I was able to put together a Salatin style chicken 00:44:48.848 --> 00:44:52.718 structure because they just lay it all out there for you and you don't have 00:44:52.718 --> 00:44:55.928 to think, you just buy what they tell you to buy and you just cut exactly how 00:44:55.928 --> 00:45:00.177 they tell you to cut and you throw it all together and it works really well. 00:45:00.224 --> 00:45:03.212 Yeah if you're interested in moving towards pasture poultry, 00:45:03.422 --> 00:45:04.701 that book is really good. 00:45:05.701 --> 00:45:08.401 Cal: Yeah, they've taken care of all that trial and error 00:45:09.391 --> 00:45:12.089 and to a workable structure. 00:45:12.869 --> 00:45:17.189 That is one of the books, I don't have the, I've thought about getting this 00:45:17.189 --> 00:45:23.768 hadn't, I don't know if it'd be super beneficial, but I may have to get it now. 00:45:23.773 --> 00:45:27.548 The other book you mentioned Before You Have a Cow by Teddy Gentry, 00:45:27.638 --> 00:45:29.438 and did you say Alan Williams? 00:45:29.438 --> 00:45:30.758 Is he in that, on that book? 00:45:31.523 --> 00:45:31.913 Ethon: Yeah. 00:45:31.973 --> 00:45:32.273 Yep. 00:45:32.273 --> 00:45:32.573 Dr. 00:45:32.573 --> 00:45:33.173 Allen Williams. 00:45:33.458 --> 00:45:35.064 Cal: Yeah I've seen that book. 00:45:35.274 --> 00:45:41.107 But for me, being around cattle all the time and growing up with them and 00:45:41.107 --> 00:45:46.279 running numerous cattle, not enough to pay the bills, but, I run on some cattle. 00:45:46.279 --> 00:45:51.068 I wasn't sure if that book would be of value to me. 00:45:51.788 --> 00:45:55.543 So based upon what you've told me, it may be an interesting. 00:45:57.078 --> 00:46:03.061 Ethon: Yeah, I think even if you are familiar with cattle especially, if you 00:46:03.127 --> 00:46:09.440 grew up in a more conventional model of things, it's just a good way of convincing 00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:12.563 you yeah, this is a way to move forward. 00:46:12.633 --> 00:46:15.483 They have a lot, they have some, a lot of tables and a lot of just 00:46:15.483 --> 00:46:20.863 good little tidbits on showing the dollar value of different forage 00:46:20.868 --> 00:46:22.518 intakes and stuff for animals. 00:46:22.558 --> 00:46:28.283 If you run a 1000 pound cow versus a 1500 pound cow, everybody tells 00:46:28.283 --> 00:46:31.161 you that you're gonna make more money on their calves or whatever. 00:46:31.161 --> 00:46:34.481 But then they show you based off of what it's gonna cost to 00:46:34.481 --> 00:46:36.646 bring that that cow to calf. 00:46:36.646 --> 00:46:40.396 And then once it's calved to bring that calve to market weight and they 00:46:40.409 --> 00:46:46.764 just lay all that out and show you yes, definitively doing it this way per animal, 00:46:46.769 --> 00:46:48.264 you're gonna be able to make more money. 00:46:48.564 --> 00:46:51.084 And on top of that, you're gonna be able to run more animals. 00:46:51.514 --> 00:46:56.067 It solidifies all those things that you hear people say, and you may not have 00:46:56.177 --> 00:46:59.387 all the facts and you're just like, oh yeah, people like to run their mouth. 00:46:59.417 --> 00:47:03.604 But when you go through they really lay it out for you on exactly how 00:47:03.694 --> 00:47:07.380 you can make more money and how you can run more animals on all the using 00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:09.210 smaller cows and, and things like that. 00:47:10.210 --> 00:47:10.840 Cal: Very good. 00:47:12.010 --> 00:47:14.710 What tool could you not live without on your farm? 00:47:15.710 --> 00:47:18.980 Ethon: Again, I'm gonna cheat and say two different tools. 00:47:19.044 --> 00:47:23.048 One is buried polyethylene waterline. 00:47:23.738 --> 00:47:26.287 Like I said, I hate moving water around. 00:47:26.797 --> 00:47:32.617 And on top of that, you can control where your animals are so effectively 00:47:32.617 --> 00:47:34.507 if you can move your water easily. 00:47:34.594 --> 00:47:38.194 And having a pressurized water line that doesn't freeze in the wintertime, 00:47:38.584 --> 00:47:42.704 just makes it so that you can put those animals basically wherever 00:47:42.709 --> 00:47:45.784 you want and you don't have to worry about things freezing up on you. 00:47:45.824 --> 00:47:48.844 You don't have to worry about building a lane back to a water point in the 00:47:48.849 --> 00:47:53.058 wintertime, or even in the summertime you can put that water exactly where 00:47:53.058 --> 00:47:56.766 you want it, you can control your animal impact and and you don't have 00:47:56.766 --> 00:48:00.636 to carry it around even if you're doing chickens and things like that. 00:48:00.703 --> 00:48:03.088 Buried polyethylene waterline for sure. 00:48:03.598 --> 00:48:06.038 And then the second one is YouTube. 00:48:06.038 --> 00:48:10.152 There's so many things where I've been even out in the pasture and I'm like 00:48:10.240 --> 00:48:13.780 I don't know if I'm doing this right, or maybe this isn't the right idea. 00:48:13.780 --> 00:48:16.990 And then you can look it up immediately and then not just have somebody 00:48:17.380 --> 00:48:21.716 write it down and tell you, but show you exactly as they're doing it. 00:48:21.716 --> 00:48:24.965 And you can just learn everything so fast. 00:48:24.965 --> 00:48:27.654 The University of YouTube is invaluable. 00:48:28.654 --> 00:48:34.924 Cal: Oh, and it's just, and it's such craziness of the things you can search 00:48:34.924 --> 00:48:38.015 for and find video demonstrating it too. 00:48:38.585 --> 00:48:41.615 It, I, I don't know if you can find something that there's not a 00:48:41.615 --> 00:48:44.925 video on , but that's my go-to. 00:48:44.925 --> 00:48:48.795 If I need to figure out something, I go watch a video on YouTube about it. 00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:50.230 Ethon: Yeah. 00:48:50.230 --> 00:48:53.953 That's how I learned how to put up an H brace was a YouTube video. 00:48:54.693 --> 00:48:57.823 I knew what it looked, I knew what it looked like, but then I didn't 00:48:57.913 --> 00:48:59.893 know exactly how to put it together. 00:48:59.893 --> 00:49:00.733 I'd never built one. 00:49:01.243 --> 00:49:05.233 And then it just looked up making an H brace for fencing, and then bam, 00:49:05.233 --> 00:49:09.133 you got 10 videos that show you maybe three different ways of doing it. 00:49:09.193 --> 00:49:11.983 And you can say, all right, this way's the best for me. 00:49:12.403 --> 00:49:15.827 And then you can do it, and you can just keep playing it over and over. 00:49:15.827 --> 00:49:18.107 If there's a part where you're stuck, you just bring out your 00:49:18.107 --> 00:49:20.357 phone again and you watch 'em, and then you're like, okay, yeah. 00:49:20.387 --> 00:49:21.194 Now I know how to do it. 00:49:21.194 --> 00:49:21.944 Yeah it's crazy. 00:49:22.229 --> 00:49:23.069 Cal: That's so true. 00:49:23.069 --> 00:49:23.639 Yes. 00:49:24.669 --> 00:49:28.700 Ethon, what do you now that you wish you knew a few years ago when 00:49:28.700 --> 00:49:30.168 you were starting on this journey? 00:49:30.227 --> 00:49:36.916 Ethon: I wish I had known to just start earlier and if you have an 00:49:36.916 --> 00:49:41.931 inkling that you want move in a certain direction to just go for it if you can. 00:49:42.171 --> 00:49:47.004 And even if it's not going for it all the way and I think still the way that 00:49:47.004 --> 00:49:52.614 I started starting small was good, but I think every year that you delay trying 00:49:52.614 --> 00:49:57.695 something because you're not sure about it, or maybe you're thinking if I do it 00:49:57.695 --> 00:50:01.985 right now, then I'm not gonna be able to, if it's going to grazing cattle, I'm not 00:50:01.985 --> 00:50:03.905 gonna be able to get the cow that I want. 00:50:04.505 --> 00:50:09.355 And every year that you wait, the possible pasture benefits or 00:50:09.355 --> 00:50:12.145 the establishment of the pasture or the learning that you're 00:50:12.145 --> 00:50:14.965 gonna get from running those cows, if you've never ran cows. 00:50:15.625 --> 00:50:19.165 Every year that you delay, that is basically interest that 00:50:19.165 --> 00:50:23.057 you'll never be able to get back on your experience and education. 00:50:23.507 --> 00:50:27.348 So it's one of those things that just, even if you're not able to 00:50:27.348 --> 00:50:31.278 do it exactly the way you wanted to do it, if you can just get started 00:50:31.638 --> 00:50:35.007 and try it out and what's the worst that happens, that you don't do it. 00:50:35.014 --> 00:50:35.687 Oh, okay. 00:50:35.897 --> 00:50:39.534 Who cares . That's the biggest thing is just I think starting early, even 00:50:39.774 --> 00:50:41.274 can't do it exactly how you want. 00:50:41.394 --> 00:50:42.714 Yeah, for sure. 00:50:44.139 --> 00:50:44.859 Cal: Very good. 00:50:45.429 --> 00:50:48.752 Lastly, Ethan where can others find out more about you? 00:50:49.817 --> 00:50:54.197 Ethon: So I have a website that's blackswampcattle.com. 00:50:54.294 --> 00:50:56.663 I have an Instagram that's Black Swamp cattle. 00:50:56.753 --> 00:51:01.103 I post a lot of photos and videos on Instagram. 00:51:01.129 --> 00:51:08.689 I try to make 'em educational and show how I'm doing it, why I'm doing it. 00:51:08.705 --> 00:51:12.231 Sometimes it is just a good looking picture of a cow. 00:51:12.231 --> 00:51:13.960 But I do try to make it educational. 00:51:14.200 --> 00:51:16.120 And then I do have a Facebook page. 00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:17.500 It's Black Swamp Cattle as well. 00:51:18.500 --> 00:51:18.980 Cal: Very good. 00:51:19.030 --> 00:51:23.410 Now, one thing I find interesting when I think about swamp, 00:51:24.640 --> 00:51:26.380 I don't think about Ohio. 00:51:27.175 --> 00:51:27.355 Ethon: Oh 00:51:27.490 --> 00:51:30.780 Cal: where did the name Black Swamp Cattle Company come from? 00:51:31.600 --> 00:51:36.250 Ethon: So where I'm from in Ohio, northwest Ohio, right in the Toledo area 00:51:36.340 --> 00:51:38.920 that is historically the black swamp. 00:51:39.100 --> 00:51:43.202 So back when Ohio was just becoming a state it was a really 00:51:43.207 --> 00:51:47.162 big swamp that kind of took over the whole greater Toledo area. 00:51:47.612 --> 00:51:52.432 And it's an easy branding thing of showing, this is a local, this is 00:51:52.432 --> 00:51:54.472 where we're operating, is in this 00:51:54.652 --> 00:51:55.432 Cal: Oh, yes. 00:51:55.487 --> 00:51:56.995 Ethon: And so that's where the name came from. 00:51:57.995 --> 00:51:58.775 Cal: Oh, very good. 00:51:58.775 --> 00:52:03.695 Because I saw the name and then I was like, where's this? 00:52:03.785 --> 00:52:04.565 Ohio? 00:52:05.015 --> 00:52:09.365 So yeah, they in Oklahoma history, we didn't talk about 00:52:09.365 --> 00:52:11.233 the Black Swamp in Ohio. 00:52:11.238 --> 00:52:12.043 Very much 00:52:12.131 --> 00:52:12.491 Ethon: yeah. 00:52:12.491 --> 00:52:15.029 A lot of people, when they think of Ohio, they think of the Eastern Edge 00:52:15.029 --> 00:52:17.706 and it's like the Appalachian Mountains. 00:52:17.706 --> 00:52:21.278 But yeah, once you get kind of the Western side, that's where it's all, a 00:52:21.278 --> 00:52:22.897 lot more grain and that type of thing. 00:52:23.897 --> 00:52:24.497 Cal: Oh yeah. 00:52:25.717 --> 00:52:28.847 Ethon, we appreciate you coming on and sharing about your 00:52:28.847 --> 00:52:30.077 journey and what you're doing. 00:52:31.037 --> 00:52:33.347 It's been a wonderful conversation. 00:52:33.430 --> 00:52:34.300 Ethon: Thank you for having me. 00:52:34.390 --> 00:52:35.230 It's great talk. 00:52:36.230 --> 00:52:39.230 Cal: It was great to hear about Ethon's transition from row 00:52:39.230 --> 00:52:41.060 crop farmer to grass farmer. 00:52:41.570 --> 00:52:44.270 And I'm excited to watch his progress. 00:52:45.890 --> 00:52:50.450 I mentioned before our interview with Ethon about a new project for me. 00:52:51.470 --> 00:52:53.840 Actually there's two new projects. 00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:55.880 But they're related. 00:52:57.200 --> 00:52:59.960 We have started two more podcasts. 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:02.150 Yes, that's true. 00:53:02.420 --> 00:53:03.140 I'm crazy. 00:53:04.220 --> 00:53:08.240 We have started two more podcasts called Grazing News 00:53:08.480 --> 00:53:10.400 and the Grass Farmer Book Club. 00:53:11.570 --> 00:53:16.050 Both are the result of me not finding what I wanted out there. 00:53:16.050 --> 00:53:20.262 Just like this podcast, a Grazing Grass podcast came about because I wanted 00:53:20.262 --> 00:53:24.492 to hear from grass farmers, doing the work and how they were doing it. 00:53:24.492 --> 00:53:28.542 And I couldn't find a podcast providing that. 00:53:29.552 --> 00:53:35.362 Grazing News is a short 10 to 15 minute podcast that is released each Monday. 00:53:36.322 --> 00:53:41.692 The goal of the Grazing News podcast is to provide relevant news for grass farmers. 00:53:42.502 --> 00:53:46.942 For example, we'll have upcoming events that may be of use to grass, farmers. 00:53:47.392 --> 00:53:50.452 As well as essential resources for grass, farmers. 00:53:51.922 --> 00:53:56.692 Also, we have a Podcast Roundup on there, so you can know what's being 00:53:56.692 --> 00:53:59.902 released in the world of podcast. 00:54:00.652 --> 00:54:04.852 I for one, I want to listen to all the podcast I can. 00:54:05.572 --> 00:54:10.852 But, I am limited by my time available to listen. 00:54:12.052 --> 00:54:17.092 So what I'm hoping the Podcast Roundup does is to let you know what episodes are. 00:54:17.992 --> 00:54:22.702 We're just released or getting released so you can make an educated decision 00:54:23.302 --> 00:54:25.522 about what you want to listen to. 00:54:26.392 --> 00:54:29.122 Now, if you've got time, listen to them all. 00:54:29.812 --> 00:54:30.862 I encourage that. 00:54:31.912 --> 00:54:37.252 But I realize, you have limited time, like I have limited time. 00:54:37.822 --> 00:54:41.272 So I hope the Podcast Roundup will be a. 00:54:41.316 --> 00:54:43.010 Beneficial segment for you. 00:54:44.010 --> 00:54:47.850 And to be honest, I don't know where this Grazing News podcast will go. 00:54:48.850 --> 00:54:53.110 I have a few things in mind as I've mentioned, but if you have something 00:54:53.110 --> 00:54:57.040 you think would make it better a suggestion to make it better. 00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.430 Go over to the Grazing Grass Community. 00:55:01.180 --> 00:55:02.140 And let me know. 00:55:03.220 --> 00:55:06.850 If we have a segment on there and you're like, that's a waste of time. 00:55:08.620 --> 00:55:13.000 Let me know, so we can make this be something useful for us. 00:55:13.910 --> 00:55:15.230 There's one caveat there. 00:55:15.950 --> 00:55:20.450 The joke of the week is not getting axed because those are some good jokes. 00:55:21.450 --> 00:55:21.930 Any who. 00:55:22.650 --> 00:55:24.450 I encourage you to give a listen. 00:55:25.140 --> 00:55:30.450 And help me on this journey to develop a resource for all of us. 00:55:31.450 --> 00:55:35.770 The Grass Farmer Book Club is another podcast to fill a need I have. 00:55:36.640 --> 00:55:42.040 I'm an avid reader, but I would like others to discuss the books I read. 00:55:43.930 --> 00:55:45.940 Thus the Grass Farmer Book Club. 00:55:46.510 --> 00:55:52.030 The podcast is organized into seasons with each season covering a single book. 00:55:52.690 --> 00:55:58.060 For season one, we are reading Quality pasture second edition by 00:55:58.060 --> 00:56:01.090 Allan nation, revised by Jim garish. 00:56:02.380 --> 00:56:06.040 The first episode of each season will introduce the book for that season. 00:56:06.850 --> 00:56:10.540 As well as the reading plan with weekly episode release to 00:56:10.570 --> 00:56:12.340 discuss that week's readings. 00:56:13.600 --> 00:56:17.020 The reading plan is built around reading 10 pages a day. 00:56:17.860 --> 00:56:19.780 While 10 pages isn't a lot. 00:56:19.930 --> 00:56:22.270 It is enough for us to grow our knowledge. 00:56:23.560 --> 00:56:27.550 In addition to the podcast, you can go over to the Grazing Grass Community. 00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:34.150 Click on grass farmer book club and start a discussion there as well. 00:56:34.250 --> 00:56:42.170 Hopefully it will become a useful resource as we are building our knowledge. 00:56:43.170 --> 00:56:46.222 I encourage you to subscribe to a grass farmer book club. 00:56:46.231 --> 00:56:49.669 If you're interested in reading or if you just want to hear the discussions. 00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:53.479 And also subscribe to the Grazing News podcast. 00:56:54.649 --> 00:56:56.389 And let me know how it goes for you. 00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:02.419 You're listening to the grazing grass podcast, helping grass farmers learn from 00:57:02.419 --> 00:57:07.729 grass farmers, and every episode features a grass farmer and their operation. 00:57:08.869 --> 00:57:13.129 You can find the grazing grass podcast on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. 00:57:13.909 --> 00:57:17.209 And we encourage you to share our posts with others. 00:57:17.779 --> 00:57:20.629 We appreciate you sharing about our podcast. 00:57:21.629 --> 00:57:22.859 Are you a grass farmer? 00:57:23.669 --> 00:57:26.249 Do you want to come on and share about your journey? 00:57:27.509 --> 00:57:28.559 Go to. 00:57:29.249 --> 00:57:32.519 grazinggrass.com and click on Be Our Guest. 00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:35.129 Fill out the form and I will get in touch. 00:57:36.629 --> 00:57:41.579 For those grass farmers who have filled out the form, and 00:57:41.579 --> 00:57:42.959 I haven't got back to you. 00:57:42.959 --> 00:57:44.459 I'm going through those now. 00:57:44.489 --> 00:57:47.279 And I will be sending you an email over the next few days. 00:57:48.209 --> 00:57:49.199 Until next time. 00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:51.449 Keep on grazing grass.