WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:05.270 Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:06.859 A few episodes back. 00:00:06.859 --> 00:00:11.629 I talked about my desire to see more practice spaces and communities 00:00:11.629 --> 00:00:12.920 pop up in the coaching world. 00:00:13.490 --> 00:00:16.430 And it's been great because since that time I've heard from multiple people 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.530 who have started or who are planning to start their own practice spaces and 00:00:20.530 --> 00:00:22.210 support each other, support other coaches. 00:00:22.840 --> 00:00:25.870 In developing their skills and their confidence in their practices. 00:00:25.930 --> 00:00:27.160 I think this is fantastic. 00:00:27.580 --> 00:00:31.930 I also told you at the time that I want to develop a practice space of my own. 00:00:33.040 --> 00:00:34.630 As I thought about the best way to do that. 00:00:35.230 --> 00:00:35.710 An idea. 00:00:35.710 --> 00:00:40.390 That's come back to my mind is the possibility that the best model for this 00:00:40.390 --> 00:00:42.880 practice space for this coach support. 00:00:43.180 --> 00:00:43.810 Thing. 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:45.010 Is a membership. 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:49.210 Now, if you've listened to the podcast, you know, all of the challenges 00:00:49.210 --> 00:00:53.530 that face scaled training models or scaled communities, because I 00:00:53.530 --> 00:00:55.780 think I've done a pretty good job of laying out their challenges. 00:00:56.740 --> 00:01:00.850 As I consider the possibility of creating a membership around a practice 00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:02.830 space and a support space for coaches. 00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:06.880 I am proceeding with great care and caution. 00:01:07.240 --> 00:01:09.460 Not only because I understand the challenges and pitfalls that I've 00:01:09.460 --> 00:01:11.080 seen in my client's businesses. 00:01:11.470 --> 00:01:13.210 When they attempt to scale. 00:01:13.600 --> 00:01:16.449 What we call a one to many offer. 00:01:17.110 --> 00:01:19.120 But I also have direct personal experience with this. 00:01:19.180 --> 00:01:21.250 I may have mentioned this on the podcast before. 00:01:21.250 --> 00:01:22.509 I don't actually remember. 00:01:22.900 --> 00:01:28.210 But between 2009 and 2012 Iran, a membership that at its peak had 00:01:28.210 --> 00:01:32.259 somewhere between 1500 and 1700 members paying a little over $30 a month. 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.880 Which meant a $50,000 per month business that lasted for a little while. 00:01:38.140 --> 00:01:41.590 As I think about the possibility of opening up a membership based 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:43.060 practice space for coaches. 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.410 I went back into my own podcast archives. 00:01:48.490 --> 00:01:51.910 And in 2017, I recorded this episode called the rise and fall. 00:01:52.419 --> 00:01:54.729 Of my $50,000 per month membership site. 00:01:55.539 --> 00:01:58.390 And I just went and listened to the whole thing. 00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:59.530 And it's fun. 00:01:59.530 --> 00:02:00.820 It's nostalgic for me. 00:02:01.360 --> 00:02:03.370 And there are some of the things I say in this episode that I 00:02:03.370 --> 00:02:04.570 don't necessarily agree with. 00:02:04.570 --> 00:02:06.009 Now, there are some that I still agree with. 00:02:06.009 --> 00:02:06.880 Very strongly. 00:02:07.270 --> 00:02:10.930 But overall, I wanted to share it with you because I think there's some gold. 00:02:11.770 --> 00:02:18.130 In this episode about what it's like to create a scaled business and two. 00:02:19.270 --> 00:02:21.610 Do some things that make it thrive and then to do some 00:02:21.610 --> 00:02:22.630 things that really hurt it. 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:26.870 And maybe in the next week or two, I will apply some of the 00:02:26.870 --> 00:02:28.250 ideas that are in this episode. 00:02:28.790 --> 00:02:31.730 To the membership that I might start. 00:02:32.299 --> 00:02:34.010 Around a practice space for coaches. 00:02:35.180 --> 00:02:37.370 But I'll be honest after listening to this episode. 00:02:37.790 --> 00:02:39.109 It's probably a coin toss. 00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:43.340 I would say that I feel some enthusiasm about the possibility of another 00:02:43.340 --> 00:02:44.660 community and other membership. 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:49.760 And also a lot of hesitation because the one thing I know is 00:02:49.760 --> 00:02:52.700 that it is not an easy thing to do. 00:02:54.020 --> 00:02:55.310 So with that, enjoy the episode. 00:02:55.850 --> 00:02:56.780 And I'll talk to you next time. 00:03:03.984 --> 00:03:06.444 This is the Mark Butler Show, episode five. 00:03:06.554 --> 00:03:09.404 And today we're talking about the rise and fall of my 50, 000 00:03:09.414 --> 00:03:11.424 per month membership business. 00:03:12.154 --> 00:03:14.054 So, of course, we'll go all the way back to the beginning. 00:03:14.064 --> 00:03:18.744 In late 2008, my business partner, Court, and I created a home study course. 00:03:18.764 --> 00:03:20.524 We called it, the Keyword Crash Course. 00:03:21.474 --> 00:03:22.884 It was a series of videos. 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:27.839 and some text and we charged 600 for it. 00:03:27.969 --> 00:03:29.309 Court was the subject matter expert. 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:33.169 He was the person who had come up with this method and laid it out into 00:03:33.169 --> 00:03:34.519 something that other people could follow. 00:03:34.519 --> 00:03:38.409 And the whole thing taught people how to set up websites, focus those 00:03:38.409 --> 00:03:40.169 websites around specific keywords. 00:03:40.634 --> 00:03:43.894 Rank those websites in Google, and then make money when people 00:03:43.904 --> 00:03:46.414 clicked through from Google, landed on their website, and then clicked 00:03:46.444 --> 00:03:49.994 Google ads, or clicked through to affiliate offers, or whatever it was. 00:03:50.454 --> 00:03:54.764 So basically,, our whole value proposition was, you give us this 600, 00:03:54.804 --> 00:03:57.984 we'll teach you how to rank a website in Google that can pay you anywhere 00:03:57.984 --> 00:04:00.234 from, you know, 100 to 1, 000 a month. 00:04:00.414 --> 00:04:04.374 We sold the whole thing as a way to make a relatively passive 1, 00:04:04.374 --> 00:04:05.754 000 per month residual income. 00:04:06.234 --> 00:04:10.644 Court had spent all of 2007, a lot of 2008, building up a community 00:04:10.644 --> 00:04:14.584 around him and his expertise in this, in this search engine optimization. 00:04:14.874 --> 00:04:16.094 We had a thriving list. 00:04:16.094 --> 00:04:18.034 I think it had maybe four or five thousand people on it. 00:04:18.044 --> 00:04:18.984 Highly engaged. 00:04:19.394 --> 00:04:22.754 So when we launched this, 600 home study course. 00:04:22.814 --> 00:04:23.724 We made sales. 00:04:23.754 --> 00:04:28.364 I want to say we made 50 or 60 sales over the course of the next three months. 00:04:28.644 --> 00:04:29.624 I was the sales guy. 00:04:29.624 --> 00:04:32.894 So I actually got on the phone or on Skype with most of the people 00:04:32.894 --> 00:04:34.694 who signed up for that 600 program. 00:04:35.104 --> 00:04:37.904 By the way, when you're selling a 600 program, if you're willing to 00:04:37.904 --> 00:04:41.644 get onto a, onto a Skype call with each person, with each prospect, your 00:04:41.644 --> 00:04:43.624 close rate will be ridiculously high. 00:04:43.864 --> 00:04:45.734 So we sold about 60 of this course. 00:04:46.464 --> 00:04:48.904 But then I started to look at the number of leads that were coming in 00:04:48.914 --> 00:04:52.074 and I started to look at our list and how our list was, it was there, but 00:04:52.234 --> 00:04:54.054 it wasn't necessarily growing a lot. 00:04:54.604 --> 00:04:57.864 So we were kind of running out of leads and I was thinking about, well, okay, how 00:04:57.864 --> 00:05:00.794 are we going to make money now if we've kind of tapped out our list and we don't 00:05:00.794 --> 00:05:03.954 have a bunch of new people coming onto the list, how are we going to make money? 00:05:04.114 --> 00:05:08.339 So over lunch one day I told Court, Hey, I'm I have kind of a crazy idea. 00:05:08.689 --> 00:05:13.859 I wonder if we could turn the keyword crash course into a membership where 00:05:13.859 --> 00:05:17.609 basically we'll say sign up for our membership and instead of just 00:05:17.609 --> 00:05:20.179 consuming videos, we're going to give you the videos, but we'll also 00:05:20.179 --> 00:05:22.739 give you a community forum where you can get answers to your questions. 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:26.119 We're going to do community webinars where you can talk to us directly. 00:05:26.299 --> 00:05:28.959 So instead of just having to consume our content and then go 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:31.709 implement it by yourself, we'll support you through the process. 00:05:32.849 --> 00:05:35.679 And what I proposed to court over this lunch was, uh, Let's take 00:05:35.679 --> 00:05:38.959 the entire keyword crash course that we've been selling for 600. 00:05:39.629 --> 00:05:43.239 Let's make the price of that program 1 and offer it as a 30 00:05:43.239 --> 00:05:44.989 day trial to this membership. 00:05:45.189 --> 00:05:49.489 After the 30 day trial people can stay on for 30 bucks a month and the goal 00:05:49.489 --> 00:05:53.779 here is to build this big residual income of 30 per month members. 00:05:54.659 --> 00:05:56.519 So we talked about it a few times and court agreed that it 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:57.749 was probably a good way to go. 00:05:58.169 --> 00:06:00.549 It was a little scary because we had these 60 people who had 00:06:00.549 --> 00:06:03.399 paid us 600 for these videos. 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:06.129 And now we were basically saying to them, Hey, you know 00:06:06.129 --> 00:06:07.519 what you just paid us 600 for? 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:09.129 We're now gonna give it away for 1. 00:06:09.649 --> 00:06:12.939 So we had this fear that most of those people, or at least some of those 00:06:12.939 --> 00:06:14.489 people, would ask for their money back. 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:18.834 But we decided that even if some of those people requested a refund, It 00:06:18.834 --> 00:06:22.584 was worth it because we really believed in this new model and we really didn't 00:06:22.584 --> 00:06:27.744 believe that we could go forward making a lot of money on 600 program sales. 00:06:27.744 --> 00:06:30.954 Now in hindsight, I would say that we could have made plenty of money 00:06:30.954 --> 00:06:34.554 on 600 program sales if we had just fully committed to marketing 00:06:34.564 --> 00:06:36.324 and selling that 600 course. 00:06:36.654 --> 00:06:40.034 But as kind of a reaction to having our leads dry up a little bit and 00:06:40.034 --> 00:06:42.964 not wanting to go out and do a bunch of new marketing, we decided, 00:06:42.964 --> 00:06:44.314 well, let's just, tweak this thing. 00:06:44.594 --> 00:06:47.134 So that the people we already have on our list, who are just a little bit 00:06:47.134 --> 00:06:51.344 more price sensitive, find it easier to get into a relationship with us. 00:06:52.004 --> 00:06:52.644 So we did that. 00:06:52.964 --> 00:06:56.594 Oh, and by the way, the way we sort of, , soothed all the people who'd 00:06:56.594 --> 00:06:59.704 paid us 600 is, we just told them that they all had a free lifetime 00:06:59.704 --> 00:07:02.374 membership to this mem to this, , to this community we were starting. 00:07:02.764 --> 00:07:05.394 I think we even said, anything else we sell, you're gonna get it for free. 00:07:06.894 --> 00:07:08.604 I don't think anybody asked for a refund. 00:07:08.704 --> 00:07:12.049 I don't remember exactly, but I'm I'm pretty sure no one asked for a refund. 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:13.579 So we got the program ready. 00:07:13.579 --> 00:07:15.459 This was, this was in 2009. 00:07:15.469 --> 00:07:18.979 So all of the membership platforms that are out there now, they didn't exist. 00:07:19.009 --> 00:07:21.859 At the time we were using WordPress and we were using wishlist. 00:07:21.889 --> 00:07:23.509 You've probably heard of wishlist member. 00:07:24.219 --> 00:07:25.979 Uh, it was very new at the time. 00:07:26.779 --> 00:07:28.499 It wasn't very well done at the time. 00:07:28.529 --> 00:07:30.139 I'm still not a big fan, frankly. 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:33.019 There's a lot of other ways I would go if I were starting a membership site. 00:07:33.019 --> 00:07:35.509 But we just cobbled together what we had. 00:07:35.559 --> 00:07:37.359 , we had WordPress for the platform. 00:07:37.819 --> 00:07:39.979 We used Wishlist for membership management. 00:07:40.539 --> 00:07:44.839 We used a WordPress based forum software to have our community forum in there. 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:46.629 We had to use GoToMeeting for the webinars. 00:07:46.709 --> 00:07:49.169 Nobody uses GoToMeeting anymore, as far as I can tell. 00:07:49.169 --> 00:07:51.329 None of my customers are using it anyway, and I don't use it. 00:07:51.944 --> 00:07:55.784 We had all these things that we kind of cobbled together, and it worked, sort of. 00:07:55.854 --> 00:07:58.274 One of my favorite stories about this whole membership experience 00:07:58.274 --> 00:08:02.534 was the system we used for content protection, Wishlist, at the time, 00:08:02.534 --> 00:08:06.424 if you canceled your subscription with us, We didn't have any way to 00:08:06.444 --> 00:08:08.724 automatically keep you out of the system. 00:08:09.104 --> 00:08:12.554 So people would cancel, but then they could still just log in and use 00:08:12.554 --> 00:08:13.964 everything in the, in the members area. 00:08:14.064 --> 00:08:17.194 Not that we publicized that, but we discovered it pretty early on. 00:08:17.604 --> 00:08:21.144 So as an interesting note about membership and about whether content 00:08:21.144 --> 00:08:24.454 protection really is a huge deal, I will tell you that every few months 00:08:24.454 --> 00:08:25.774 I would go in and I would audit. 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:31.239 Canceled members to see if any of those canceled members were still Accessing 00:08:31.239 --> 00:08:34.089 the members area even though they weren't paying and we would even have some 00:08:34.089 --> 00:08:38.289 members occasionally email me and say hey mark I canceled love the program. 00:08:38.289 --> 00:08:40.539 It's not for me right now, or I've gotten everything I need I'm gonna 00:08:40.539 --> 00:08:44.229 move on but I just want to let you know that even though I canceled I can 00:08:44.229 --> 00:08:47.844 still log in And I would always send back a reply and say, Oh man, thank 00:08:47.854 --> 00:08:49.394 you so much for letting us know that. 00:08:49.464 --> 00:08:50.944 We are going to look into that. 00:08:51.644 --> 00:08:54.374 And then I didn't do anything because we weren't going to look into it. 00:08:54.384 --> 00:08:55.604 We already knew what the issue was. 00:08:55.934 --> 00:08:57.034 We just weren't gonna fix it. 00:08:57.804 --> 00:09:01.714 And it turned out that if somebody isn't willing to pay for a program, 00:09:01.724 --> 00:09:04.744 they're probably not going to be bothered to log in and use it. 00:09:05.014 --> 00:09:08.004 So keep that in mind when you, when you jump through a lot of hoops. 00:09:08.374 --> 00:09:10.394 to do content protection on different areas of your 00:09:10.394 --> 00:09:11.624 website or different programs. 00:09:12.154 --> 00:09:14.364 The reality is it's hard enough on the internet to get people 00:09:14.364 --> 00:09:15.894 to consume content for free. 00:09:16.234 --> 00:09:20.474 So if you have paid content, just because you haven't done a really 00:09:20.474 --> 00:09:24.174 good job of hiding it behind a paywall or a member long and or whatever, it 00:09:24.174 --> 00:09:26.944 doesn't mean that that hordes of people are going to come consume it for free 00:09:26.944 --> 00:09:30.409 because Like I said, it's hard enough to get people to consume stuff for free. 00:09:30.629 --> 00:09:32.919 So it was just kind of a funny little quirk of that business 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:36.759 that after people canceled, they could still access the site. 00:09:36.789 --> 00:09:37.369 No problem. 00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:40.129 The other funny thing about it was we offered this 1 trial. 00:09:40.699 --> 00:09:45.039 to the membership and there was nothing to stop you from just starting 00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:46.679 a new 1 trial every single month. 00:09:47.329 --> 00:09:49.779 And I know there are people out there who that would cause them like, really? 00:09:49.869 --> 00:09:50.649 Oh no, we can't. 00:09:50.649 --> 00:09:51.299 We have to fix it. 00:09:51.299 --> 00:09:51.949 We have to fix it. 00:09:51.949 --> 00:09:55.529 Well again, every few months I would audit that piece and I 00:09:55.529 --> 00:09:56.809 would see who was trying to cheat. 00:09:57.569 --> 00:10:00.269 And over the course of three and a half years we had, I don't know, 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.409 10, 000 people go through this membership total, you know, take 00:10:03.409 --> 00:10:05.209 a trial and try out the program. 00:10:06.189 --> 00:10:09.789 There were like five people who were cheating on the 1 trial. 00:10:09.999 --> 00:10:10.289 So. 00:10:11.104 --> 00:10:15.054 The reason I bring that all up as an, as an aside is don't bog yourself 00:10:15.054 --> 00:10:19.114 down and having a perfect technical setup for your website, for your 00:10:19.114 --> 00:10:22.374 members area, for your products, because it just doesn't really matter. 00:10:22.434 --> 00:10:23.924 It's not really going to matter. 00:10:24.124 --> 00:10:27.394 So anyway, we take this 600 course, we turn it into a membership. 00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:31.919 And we launch it to our list and we get this amazing response. 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.439 I think the first day we had something like 200 people sign up the day 00:10:34.439 --> 00:10:36.929 after that we had 200 more and the, and then people would come into 00:10:36.929 --> 00:10:40.419 our, our members area and they would say, Hey, I'm so excited to be here. 00:10:40.419 --> 00:10:44.209 I've always wanted to implement what court teaches and what Mark 00:10:44.209 --> 00:10:48.539 teaches, but I couldn't afford the 600, but now they're going to let 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:49.789 me have it for 30 bucks a month. 00:10:49.789 --> 00:10:50.619 And that's perfect. 00:10:50.619 --> 00:10:51.569 I'm so excited to be here. 00:10:52.019 --> 00:10:54.009 And we started to grow this community and you know what? 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:55.349 It worked so well. 00:10:55.359 --> 00:10:56.129 It was amazing. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:58.569 Let me take you through the features of the program and then 00:10:58.569 --> 00:10:59.719 I'll tell you sort of the wins. 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:02.579 And the fails for each aspect of the program. 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:07.499 So you, you pay me a dollar, you pay us a dollar, you jump into our members area and 00:11:07.499 --> 00:11:09.239 you consume what we call the core lessons. 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.569 These were those keyword crash course videos that we had 00:11:11.569 --> 00:11:13.329 created for the 600 program. 00:11:14.069 --> 00:11:16.629 You go through these and they're very, very step by step. 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:17.359 They were excellent. 00:11:17.379 --> 00:11:21.939 One of the best things about this program was that court had done such a good job. 00:11:21.949 --> 00:11:24.749 He has such a kind of a scientist experimenter brain. 00:11:25.149 --> 00:11:28.119 where you had done such a good job of figuring out exactly what people 00:11:28.119 --> 00:11:31.349 needed to do in order to rank a website in Google and in order to 00:11:31.349 --> 00:11:35.979 make that website make money, that we really had this A to Z process 00:11:35.989 --> 00:11:38.869 that worked pretty much every time. 00:11:39.219 --> 00:11:41.909 So if you would join our program, and if you would just implement what 00:11:41.909 --> 00:11:44.689 we taught, you would make money. 00:11:44.889 --> 00:11:46.069 It might take you a while. 00:11:46.069 --> 00:11:49.209 It might take you six months or it might take you a year, but you would make money. 00:11:50.109 --> 00:11:52.629 That was so gratifying for us because we felt like we were 00:11:52.629 --> 00:11:56.359 really, really delivering value because people were, were succeeding. 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:00.419 They were actually making money in, in an area, this, this area of kind of making 00:12:00.419 --> 00:12:04.639 money online that was known to be full of scams and full of, you know, junk. 00:12:05.659 --> 00:12:07.859 But if you signed up for our program and you actually implemented 00:12:07.859 --> 00:12:09.189 what we taught, you got paid. 00:12:09.239 --> 00:12:10.609 That felt amazing. 00:12:10.909 --> 00:12:14.639 And as people started to make money, they would go back into our forum, and 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:15.959 they would talk about their success. 00:12:16.999 --> 00:12:18.989 And then it fed on the energy that we had. 00:12:19.099 --> 00:12:22.759 Actually, let me go into more detail about that. 00:12:23.069 --> 00:12:25.889 So when you sign up for our forum, one of the first things we implemented 00:12:26.269 --> 00:12:27.739 was what we called the badge system. 00:12:28.189 --> 00:12:31.059 And the badge system was something we'd stolen from video games, because 00:12:31.059 --> 00:12:33.869 we were playing a lot of video games at the time, and what we did was, 00:12:34.309 --> 00:12:38.309 because this was a community built around making money, We created a badge 00:12:38.309 --> 00:12:42.159 system that said, Hey, when you start making money using this method, you'll 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.089 submit proof of your success to us as the, as the moderators in the forum. 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:50.089 And then , we'll give you the earnings badge that corresponds 00:12:50.089 --> 00:12:51.389 to your current earning level. 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:54.119 Now, when we launched this, there was a lot of discussion and debate 00:12:54.119 --> 00:12:56.569 in the community about like, well, I don't like I'm private. 00:12:56.569 --> 00:12:58.059 I don't want to share those kinds of details. 00:12:58.474 --> 00:13:01.134 Some people were like, I'm from Europe and in Europe, this is 00:13:01.134 --> 00:13:02.834 a completely taboo subject. 00:13:02.854 --> 00:13:03.904 I don't know whether it is or isn't. 00:13:03.914 --> 00:13:07.344 I was taking the European's word for it, but they were saying, I'm from Europe. 00:13:07.344 --> 00:13:08.484 This is totally taboo. 00:13:08.494 --> 00:13:09.604 We don't talk about money. 00:13:09.604 --> 00:13:10.734 We don't talk about income. 00:13:10.734 --> 00:13:11.744 This is totally out of line. 00:13:11.744 --> 00:13:12.764 I'm not going to participate. 00:13:12.764 --> 00:13:14.334 And we said, Hey, here's the deal. 00:13:14.854 --> 00:13:16.264 You're welcome in our community. 00:13:16.274 --> 00:13:20.764 You don't have to participate, but we think a lot of you will really 00:13:20.764 --> 00:13:24.554 appreciate being able to watch , your fellow members of the community succeed. 00:13:24.784 --> 00:13:26.744 It'll inspire you to go do more. 00:13:26.824 --> 00:13:27.434 It'll create. 00:13:27.959 --> 00:13:32.529 Friendly competition will create this high energy around actually accomplishing 00:13:32.729 --> 00:13:34.079 what we all claim we want to do. 00:13:34.439 --> 00:13:37.609 So we built this badge system and the first badge was like a dollar. 00:13:37.609 --> 00:13:40.709 It was like you've earned your first dollar and then badges went 00:13:40.709 --> 00:13:43.689 up to like twenty five, fifty dollars, hundred dollars per month. 00:13:44.319 --> 00:13:46.789 They jumped to a five hundred dollars per month and there was a thousand 00:13:46.789 --> 00:13:50.819 dollar per month badge and the thousand dollar per month badge was a huge deal. 00:13:50.859 --> 00:13:51.789 It was a huge deal. 00:13:52.609 --> 00:13:56.009 Because we had built the whole program around this idea that, hey, you come 00:13:56.009 --> 00:14:00.329 in here, you implement this system, you can make a supplemental, semi 00:14:00.329 --> 00:14:02.259 passive, 1, 000 per month income. 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:06.869 In fact, Cort and I, when we did this, we really didn't have any idea 00:14:07.089 --> 00:14:08.959 how far people would take our system. 00:14:09.339 --> 00:14:12.339 We didn't look at this method as a way of creating a full time income. 00:14:12.569 --> 00:14:14.289 We didn't have a full time income from it. 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.399 We made some money from this system, but then we really monetized the 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.079 system by teaching it to other people. 00:14:21.169 --> 00:14:24.869 So we sold the thing as 1, 000 per month, Opportunity, right? 00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:29.109 So when people would get to their 1, 000 badge, it was this bright 00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:31.749 yellow badge that said 1, 000 on it. 00:14:32.249 --> 00:14:35.129 We would have people submit their proof for their 1, 000 badge. 00:14:35.779 --> 00:14:39.039 And when they submitted their proof, our system would give them a banner. 00:14:39.049 --> 00:14:41.269 It would give them the badge, but it would give them a banner across 00:14:41.269 --> 00:14:44.629 their badge that said pending because we hadn't approved the badge yet. 00:14:45.369 --> 00:14:49.064 And when you would see somebody, Post in the forum and they would get their pending 00:14:49.074 --> 00:14:52.914 badge the forum would just it would kind of go crazy people would be like Oh check 00:14:52.914 --> 00:14:56.564 it out John's got his thousand dollar badge pending and all of a sudden it'd 00:14:56.564 --> 00:15:00.274 be like everybody would gather around and then we would approve the badge And then 00:15:00.274 --> 00:15:04.504 John who just gotten his thousand dollar badge He would write basically this long 00:15:04.534 --> 00:15:07.124 Oscar acceptance speech in the forum. 00:15:07.794 --> 00:15:10.334 I'm serious, and I'm not mocking it It was so much fun. 00:15:10.684 --> 00:15:13.919 It would be like I just want to thank Mark and Court, I want to thank all these 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.829 other community members because even though the lessons were great, really 00:15:16.829 --> 00:15:19.539 the community is what helped me succeed and I want to thank this person, that 00:15:19.539 --> 00:15:22.069 person, and the other person because they got me through some sticking points. 00:15:22.859 --> 00:15:26.429 It was so much fun and they would talk about how, what they were 00:15:26.429 --> 00:15:29.269 doing with the income and how it was changing their life and on and on. 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:30.869 I mean, it was just the best thing ever. 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.539 I loved those days when people would apply for a new exciting earnings badge. 00:15:36.099 --> 00:15:37.969 Well then our members started to surprise us. 00:15:38.334 --> 00:15:42.404 Because all of a sudden there were people earning 5, 000. 00:15:42.404 --> 00:15:44.014 So we had to make a 5, 000 badge. 00:15:44.694 --> 00:15:46.754 And then there were people earning 10, 000 per month. 00:15:46.794 --> 00:15:51.654 We had to make a 10, 000 badge and on until finally we had to create. 00:15:52.024 --> 00:15:54.864 A 50, 000 per month badge. 00:15:55.054 --> 00:15:55.674 I think. 00:15:55.854 --> 00:15:57.304 I might be, uh, is that true? 00:15:57.924 --> 00:15:59.594 It was either 25, 000 or 50, 000. 00:15:59.614 --> 00:16:02.524 I find both of those numbers equally ridiculous when I think about 00:16:02.524 --> 00:16:04.074 this method that we were teaching. 00:16:04.584 --> 00:16:08.484 I can't believe anybody was making either 25, 000 per month or 50, 000 per month. 00:16:08.504 --> 00:16:09.674 They were both bananas. 00:16:09.774 --> 00:16:12.654 But the energy that would, that would surge in that community 00:16:12.654 --> 00:16:16.154 when somebody would get a 10, 000 badge or a 25, 000 badge. 00:16:16.614 --> 00:16:17.834 It was just, it was amazing. 00:16:18.264 --> 00:16:21.424 So this forum became, it became the hub for the whole community. 00:16:21.464 --> 00:16:24.764 We also did webinars where people would come and they do live Q and A with me 00:16:24.764 --> 00:16:27.274 or with court and we'd help them out. 00:16:27.314 --> 00:16:30.454 And then sometimes we would do four webinars where we taught new 00:16:30.454 --> 00:16:33.524 material and then those were useful because people would refer to 00:16:33.524 --> 00:16:34.864 those webinars in the members area. 00:16:34.864 --> 00:16:36.764 They'd say, somebody would say, ah, this question, I'm stuck. 00:16:36.764 --> 00:16:39.084 And somebody else would say, well, you got to go check out the latest webinar. 00:16:39.084 --> 00:16:40.804 It really answers that or it addresses that. 00:16:41.234 --> 00:16:43.434 So the whole thing really fed on itself. 00:16:43.444 --> 00:16:44.644 It was super productive. 00:16:44.644 --> 00:16:44.659 Yeah. 00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:46.419 And really, really fun. 00:16:46.779 --> 00:16:49.379 And it attracted members. 00:16:49.889 --> 00:16:53.399 I mean, at the time, you know, Court had done so much work. 00:16:53.719 --> 00:16:56.279 The reason Court gets so much credit for this whole business is because in 00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:01.869 2007 and 2008, he had done all of the, of the work to build the community, 00:17:01.869 --> 00:17:05.469 to build the list that we could sell this community to in the first place. 00:17:05.949 --> 00:17:09.029 But once we had this community going, Court wasn't doing a lot more at 00:17:09.029 --> 00:17:10.579 that point to keep growing the list. 00:17:10.589 --> 00:17:15.009 So we really were having to rely on word of mouth and on affiliates. 00:17:15.344 --> 00:17:18.234 To bring us new members, but we were getting word of mouth. 00:17:18.234 --> 00:17:21.944 I mean, we were adding two and three and four new subscribers every day. 00:17:21.944 --> 00:17:24.594 Sometimes we would get a little surge, 10, 15. 00:17:24.934 --> 00:17:27.344 We had affiliates who would drive traffic to us. 00:17:27.594 --> 00:17:29.134 People would say, well, this is a really great program. 00:17:29.134 --> 00:17:30.244 You got to go check it out. 00:17:31.084 --> 00:17:32.244 And that would bring people to us. 00:17:32.764 --> 00:17:35.904 But what really caused people to stick, I think, was this energy in 00:17:35.904 --> 00:17:39.874 this forum where, where people were able to see other people succeeding 00:17:39.924 --> 00:17:41.044 and they were able to follow them. 00:17:41.409 --> 00:17:44.929 And they were able to follow them because the system that we taught 00:17:44.929 --> 00:17:52.439 was so sequential, so reliable, that you could say, Well, if John got to a 00:17:52.439 --> 00:17:55.559 thousand dollars per month following the system, then I'm just going to 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:58.019 follow the system and I'm going to make a thousand dollars per month too. 00:17:58.129 --> 00:18:02.979 In hindsight, I really believe that the foundation of this business success was 00:18:03.649 --> 00:18:06.429 the positivity, the energy, the passion. 00:18:07.004 --> 00:18:10.904 And the, the friendship and the community that grew inside of this 00:18:10.904 --> 00:18:14.864 forum, where people were cheering each other on and they weren't just cheering 00:18:14.864 --> 00:18:18.704 each other on, they were doing it with real evidence of their success. 00:18:18.994 --> 00:18:22.644 If I were to ever start a forum, you know, a community like that again, 00:18:22.844 --> 00:18:26.094 I would always have the community focused around a specific goal. 00:18:26.554 --> 00:18:30.174 And then I would celebrate as individual members of the community reach that goal. 00:18:30.504 --> 00:18:33.194 I wouldn't do it in a way that diminishes those people who aren't succeeding yet, 00:18:33.624 --> 00:18:38.504 but the simple reality is everybody there is there for a reason and it validates 00:18:38.504 --> 00:18:40.124 the entire mission of the community. 00:18:40.264 --> 00:18:43.754 When you point out the people who are succeeding and when you set them 00:18:43.784 --> 00:18:45.784 up as the example of how to do this. 00:18:46.284 --> 00:18:48.644 So I believe that was the foundation of our success. 00:18:49.004 --> 00:18:55.259 But my personality is That I'm a little bit of a perfectionist and I'm a tinkerer. 00:18:56.689 --> 00:19:00.059 And so when you put those things together, I got it in my head pretty 00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:03.359 early on in this business that we couldn't just stand on the value we 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:09.589 offered with the core lessons of the members area, the members forum, the 00:19:09.589 --> 00:19:11.539 earnings badges, and the webinars. 00:19:12.009 --> 00:19:14.509 I was certain that that was never going to be enough to get people to 00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:16.449 stick to our 33 per month membership. 00:19:17.089 --> 00:19:19.909 Now, I might have been right, but we never gave ourselves a chance 00:19:19.909 --> 00:19:23.739 to find out because I was too anxious that we were going to lose 00:19:23.739 --> 00:19:24.949 these people that we'd gotten. 00:19:25.439 --> 00:19:28.369 So I was never really, uh, I was never willing to give. 00:19:28.814 --> 00:19:32.794 Our value proposition a real test by just letting it ride Let's see how far 00:19:32.794 --> 00:19:37.304 we can take this idea of core lessons plus community forum plus webinars plus 00:19:37.444 --> 00:19:40.864 You know these earnings badges that drive people forward So very early on 00:19:40.864 --> 00:19:44.844 I got it in my head that we had to add software to the mix We had to build tools 00:19:44.844 --> 00:19:48.144 for the members so that yes They might like the forum and they might like the 00:19:48.144 --> 00:19:52.104 webinars But they can't leave the tools because the tools help them automate 00:19:52.164 --> 00:19:56.379 the process that we teach so very early on You We hired a software developer, 00:19:56.379 --> 00:19:59.429 just happened to be my brother, and he started to build tools that would, that 00:19:59.429 --> 00:20:00.949 would automate parts of this process. 00:20:01.969 --> 00:20:04.009 And yeah, the members loved these tools. 00:20:04.009 --> 00:20:08.889 We ended up building, I don't know, three, maybe four tools that helped 00:20:08.899 --> 00:20:11.319 automate different pieces of this, of this method that we taught. 00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:12.809 The members loved these tools. 00:20:13.569 --> 00:20:17.434 And in fact, we ended up spinning a couple of them off as Successful 00:20:17.434 --> 00:20:18.484 businesses on their own. 00:20:19.494 --> 00:20:23.224 So, one of the tools we built was this, , this keyword research tool that helped 00:20:23.234 --> 00:20:26.464 people, like, dig up information about which terms are being searched in Google. 00:20:26.814 --> 00:20:31.764 People loved that because it simplified a, a really tedious research process. 00:20:31.854 --> 00:20:36.074 Later on, we built this guest posting hub called PostRunner. 00:20:36.084 --> 00:20:37.284 It's still, it's still online, by the way. 00:20:37.284 --> 00:20:38.764 I don't know if it still runs, but 00:20:41.774 --> 00:20:45.334 Postrunner brought together website owners and article publishers, article 00:20:45.344 --> 00:20:50.434 authors, and it created easy, frictionless guest posting opportunities, which at 00:20:50.434 --> 00:20:54.554 the time gave people the opportunity to post on each other's websites, get links 00:20:54.554 --> 00:20:57.464 from the other website to their website, which ranked their website in Google 00:20:57.474 --> 00:20:58.954 better, so people went nuts for this. 00:20:58.954 --> 00:21:01.444 I mean, it worked really, really, really well. 00:21:02.054 --> 00:21:05.594 Because, again, it was so good at gaming Google's algorithm. 00:21:06.354 --> 00:21:07.654 So these are the tools we built. 00:21:08.344 --> 00:21:09.494 The members loved them. 00:21:09.874 --> 00:21:10.884 And it was a huge win. 00:21:11.364 --> 00:21:16.174 But, as I look back, I'm really not sure how big of a win it actually was, because 00:21:16.174 --> 00:21:18.384 it confused our value proposition so much. 00:21:19.384 --> 00:21:20.954 Like I said, we really didn't know what to do. 00:21:21.544 --> 00:21:23.874 Whether the people who were there, were there because they loved the 00:21:23.874 --> 00:21:27.174 community forum so much, or the webinars so much, or the tools. 00:21:27.874 --> 00:21:30.884 And because we couldn't pinpoint, and when we asked, by the way, 00:21:30.884 --> 00:21:32.064 people would say all three. 00:21:32.814 --> 00:21:33.794 Why are you still here? 00:21:33.834 --> 00:21:34.724 Oh, I'm here for the forum. 00:21:34.734 --> 00:21:35.554 Why are you still here? 00:21:35.574 --> 00:21:36.814 Oh, I'm here for the tools. 00:21:36.814 --> 00:21:38.374 I'll never leave these tools. 00:21:39.024 --> 00:21:40.114 Why are you still here? 00:21:40.114 --> 00:21:41.114 Well, I love the webinars. 00:21:42.034 --> 00:21:45.274 So somebody loved everything we were doing, but we didn't 00:21:45.274 --> 00:21:47.564 know what the main benefit was. 00:21:47.684 --> 00:21:51.304 And that made it so we kind of felt like we had to do more of 00:21:51.304 --> 00:21:55.744 everything, more webinars, more tools, more time in the forum. 00:21:56.294 --> 00:21:59.614 So for 33 per month, it started to get a little bit tedious. 00:22:01.409 --> 00:22:03.039 And we only had one software developer. 00:22:03.709 --> 00:22:07.489 And at the time, he was very new in his software development career. 00:22:07.549 --> 00:22:12.089 So as our tools started to break down, because that's what software does, 00:22:12.349 --> 00:22:16.119 you know, breaks down, things change, services you rely on, they change, 00:22:16.149 --> 00:22:17.459 then you have to rebuild the software. 00:22:17.909 --> 00:22:19.869 He started having a little bit of a hard time keeping up. 00:22:19.869 --> 00:22:22.484 And we had to start, you know, kind of rebuilding the software, but then 00:22:22.484 --> 00:22:25.914 we had multiple pieces of software to rebuild and it started to be tedious and 00:22:25.914 --> 00:22:30.434 started to be hard to keep up with this kind of technical debt in the business. 00:22:30.804 --> 00:22:34.664 And also as things started to change with Google's algorithm, 00:22:35.044 --> 00:22:36.484 our core lessons were out of date. 00:22:36.804 --> 00:22:40.274 And the tools that we demonstrated in the core lessons and the processes we 00:22:40.274 --> 00:22:41.624 demonstrated, those were out of date. 00:22:42.184 --> 00:22:43.524 So we had content debt. 00:22:44.604 --> 00:22:47.344 So we had technical debt with our software, we had content debt with our 00:22:47.344 --> 00:22:50.294 core lessons, and we, we started to feel like, oh, there's a lot of plates to keep 00:22:50.294 --> 00:22:53.624 spinning here, and this isn't quite the passive income that we had hoped for. 00:22:53.914 --> 00:22:56.464 So we recognized this and we decided, well, we have to simplify. 00:22:57.104 --> 00:22:58.194 We have to simplify. 00:22:59.104 --> 00:23:00.854 We've just, we've just added too much to this. 00:23:00.864 --> 00:23:04.584 Well, that means taking things away from people, That have been enjoying them. 00:23:05.474 --> 00:23:08.454 So we discontinued one of the pieces of software that we built for our members. 00:23:08.624 --> 00:23:09.734 Guess how they reacted? 00:23:10.284 --> 00:23:10.914 They were mad. 00:23:12.374 --> 00:23:13.554 Not very surprising, right? 00:23:14.244 --> 00:23:15.014 They were mad. 00:23:15.344 --> 00:23:17.544 But we knew that we couldn't sustain the development of that 00:23:17.544 --> 00:23:19.234 software, that particular software. 00:23:19.844 --> 00:23:21.344 So we lost two members over that. 00:23:21.594 --> 00:23:24.534 But the bigger issue wasn't that we lost those members, it was that it was sort of 00:23:24.534 --> 00:23:28.074 the first time that we had really damaged the goodwill we had with our members. 00:23:28.464 --> 00:23:31.794 And this is at the same time that Google is starting to change things and some 00:23:31.794 --> 00:23:35.764 of our members are starting to struggle to, to create or maintain the income. 00:23:36.734 --> 00:23:39.994 So they're stressed out and now we're taking features away 00:23:40.454 --> 00:23:41.564 and that's making them mad. 00:23:41.964 --> 00:23:45.194 And this energy starts to bubble in our forum, which is the hub for all the 00:23:45.194 --> 00:23:46.614 communication we have with our members. 00:23:46.644 --> 00:23:50.094 There starts to be some, you know, snarky comments and some hurt 00:23:50.094 --> 00:23:51.354 feelings and stuff like that. 00:23:51.744 --> 00:23:53.354 So then we start to scramble a little bit. 00:23:53.474 --> 00:23:57.904 Now we knew that the energy in the forum was one of our keys to success. 00:23:58.334 --> 00:24:01.114 One of my fails in this whole process is I got kind of addicted 00:24:01.414 --> 00:24:02.714 to my own community forum. 00:24:03.954 --> 00:24:07.784 I basically just sit there and refresh the page when the reality is sitting 00:24:07.784 --> 00:24:12.464 there and obsessing over what was going on in our forum was not What I could 00:24:12.464 --> 00:24:16.224 have been doing was thinking about how do we shift the entire business in a 00:24:16.224 --> 00:24:20.164 different direction where it's not so dependent on Google's current algorithm. 00:24:20.434 --> 00:24:25.094 And how do I work with my business partner to do more marketing and 00:24:25.104 --> 00:24:28.544 more sales so that we bring a steady stream of fresh faces in here. 00:24:29.284 --> 00:24:31.264 To replace those that are leaving us. 00:24:31.804 --> 00:24:35.624 But instead of doing any of that, I babysat the forum and just kind of 00:24:35.624 --> 00:24:41.444 obsessed over it, which ended up not being productive because as some of the snark 00:24:41.444 --> 00:24:45.024 and some of the anger was bubbling up in the forum, I was very young at the time. 00:24:45.034 --> 00:24:48.634 I mean, age wise, I don't know, it's 29 30, but I mean, I was very 00:24:48.634 --> 00:24:51.654 young in business and I, and my ego was really caught up in whether 00:24:51.654 --> 00:24:55.014 I was, the members were happy and whether they were complimenting 00:24:55.014 --> 00:24:56.494 me and complimenting the business. 00:24:56.494 --> 00:24:58.804 And if anybody was mad, then I was defensive. 00:24:59.389 --> 00:25:01.179 I was super insecure about the whole thing. 00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:04.469 And there were a handful of members that just rubbed me the wrong way. 00:25:04.729 --> 00:25:09.139 Even on my best day, this small handful of members just got under my skin. 00:25:10.429 --> 00:25:13.479 But instead of handling that like an adult, I would occasionally engage 00:25:13.479 --> 00:25:17.859 in, you know, many arguments with certain members in the forum, in 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:18.939 front of all my other customers. 00:25:18.939 --> 00:25:20.689 Like, how genius is that? 00:25:21.339 --> 00:25:24.739 Like, like I'm going to restore the positivity and the energy in the 00:25:24.739 --> 00:25:28.899 business by fighting with my own customers in front of my other customers. 00:25:29.584 --> 00:25:32.284 Yeah, that went about as well as you, as you imagine. 00:25:32.634 --> 00:25:36.124 Like, I'm gonna create factions in my own business between those people 00:25:36.124 --> 00:25:38.814 who agree with me and those people who agree with this other guy. 00:25:39.304 --> 00:25:39.944 Disaster. 00:25:40.664 --> 00:25:41.564 You know, lessons learned. 00:25:42.064 --> 00:25:45.624 Another thing that was going on in the forum at the time, which had been part, 00:25:45.724 --> 00:25:50.074 a big part of our early success, was we had created a way in our forum for 00:25:50.084 --> 00:25:51.794 members to offer services to each other. 00:25:53.094 --> 00:25:56.654 So we had this service provider section of the forum and people could go in 00:25:56.654 --> 00:25:59.774 there and they could basically post an ad that says, Hey, this part of 00:25:59.774 --> 00:26:03.564 the method that Court and Mark teach, I will do that for you for this fee. 00:26:04.704 --> 00:26:08.024 And the community loved it because the people who wanted to supplement their 00:26:08.024 --> 00:26:13.844 income by doing services had an easy avenue to customers and the people who 00:26:13.844 --> 00:26:16.244 had a little bit more money on their hands and they wanted to streamline 00:26:16.244 --> 00:26:19.084 some of this by hiring people, they had access to these service providers. 00:26:19.094 --> 00:26:21.764 It worked really well and it contributed a ton to the forum. 00:26:22.254 --> 00:26:23.694 And what I found out later. 00:26:23.954 --> 00:26:29.154 was that these service providers now had a, they had a profit motive to be active 00:26:29.174 --> 00:26:32.104 and helpful in that forum because that was how they were going to get their leads. 00:26:33.314 --> 00:26:36.054 And the reason I say I found this out later was because after one 00:26:36.054 --> 00:26:39.404 or two experiences where a service provider treated one of their 00:26:39.404 --> 00:26:43.344 customers badly, and it kind of would blow up in the forum, I panicked. 00:26:44.084 --> 00:26:47.984 Again, I, I really just I wish I would have had somebody Next to me 00:26:47.984 --> 00:26:50.534 the whole through this whole process to say, Hey, man, you, you need 00:26:50.534 --> 00:26:53.264 to just chill, like, just relax. 00:26:53.504 --> 00:26:54.454 Everything's going to be fine. 00:26:54.924 --> 00:26:58.494 But instead, when I saw that this member is treating that member badly 00:26:58.494 --> 00:26:59.774 and, oh, are we going to get sued? 00:26:59.774 --> 00:27:00.594 No one's going to sue us. 00:27:00.644 --> 00:27:01.284 That was a stupid. 00:27:01.374 --> 00:27:02.164 What was I worried about? 00:27:02.484 --> 00:27:04.114 But I was freaking out. 00:27:05.249 --> 00:27:07.049 And so I was like, that's it. 00:27:07.059 --> 00:27:08.879 The service provider program is over. 00:27:08.879 --> 00:27:11.539 And I made that decision, I think pretty much unilaterally. 00:27:11.539 --> 00:27:17.089 I might've consulted court, but court really let me sort of run the back 00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:22.319 end of the business and I was kind of the more emotional, more volatile one. 00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:24.249 So when I decided there was a problem with. 00:27:24.739 --> 00:27:26.979 The, uh, with the service providers program. 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:29.829 I think I just sort of unilaterally was like, well, that's that. 00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.909 The service provider program is over. 00:27:31.989 --> 00:27:33.769 Well, what did I accomplish? 00:27:33.789 --> 00:27:39.649 All I really accomplished was that I offended the best customers I had. 00:27:40.809 --> 00:27:44.649 I had created a scenario where they could supplement their income, make a 00:27:44.649 --> 00:27:46.099 meaningful contribution to this community. 00:27:46.879 --> 00:27:51.519 Make some money doing it and and what was I thinking because they were also 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:56.629 doing the vast majority of my customer service for me But because I was young 00:27:56.629 --> 00:28:00.509 in business and because my ego is caught up in this and because I was I was a 00:28:00.509 --> 00:28:02.229 little bit Volatile about the whole thing. 00:28:03.449 --> 00:28:07.079 I just dropped the whole program the whole service provider program 00:28:07.629 --> 00:28:11.339 offending all of these service providers Well, guess what they did? 00:28:12.069 --> 00:28:12.719 They left. 00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:13.859 Of course they did. 00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:16.629 Because there are other forums you can go hang out in. 00:28:17.479 --> 00:28:21.759 In fact, once you've found your group of friends, you can go make your own forum. 00:28:22.109 --> 00:28:23.479 And that's exactly what they did. 00:28:24.269 --> 00:28:25.209 And how could I blame them? 00:28:25.539 --> 00:28:31.409 So, between the rumblings with the Google algorithm, and the struggles 00:28:31.409 --> 00:28:37.409 that that was creating for some of our members, and Me being too caught up in 00:28:37.409 --> 00:28:41.599 my own ego about exactly how people were interacting in this forum and whether 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.539 they were behaving as I thought they should and as whether they were being, 00:28:44.829 --> 00:28:49.679 you know, appropriately complementary of me and the system and blah blah blah. 00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:53.639 Combine that with With my sabotage of the service providers program 00:28:53.659 --> 00:28:57.869 in this forum and the wheels start to come off a little bit. 00:28:58.399 --> 00:29:00.689 And whereas the business had been growing, growing, growing, and it 00:29:00.689 --> 00:29:03.969 had reached that 50, 000, I think we, we had one 60, 000 a month. 00:29:03.969 --> 00:29:05.819 We had lots of 50, 000 months. 00:29:06.899 --> 00:29:09.729 We started to see membership struggle now in hindsight,. 00:29:10.499 --> 00:29:11.789 It's easy for me to see. 00:29:11.964 --> 00:29:16.094 That the way I was acting in this forum was sabotaging the word of 00:29:16.094 --> 00:29:18.224 mouth engine that it had become. 00:29:18.664 --> 00:29:23.954 , you might think that the conversations you're part of are the only conversations 00:29:23.954 --> 00:29:25.964 , that are happening about your business. 00:29:26.604 --> 00:29:28.074 That's how naive I was. 00:29:29.084 --> 00:29:34.724 It never occurred to me that these people who'd been fantastic customers would be 00:29:34.724 --> 00:29:39.954 able to go have conversations with each other and be like, uh, what's Mark's deal? 00:29:39.954 --> 00:29:41.809 That's Like, what's he doing here? 00:29:42.639 --> 00:29:44.059 Let's just go start a forum of our own. 00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.229 Or, hey, Joe Schmo has a different forum. 00:29:47.299 --> 00:29:48.559 He charges 10 bucks a month. 00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:50.259 It's a better forum. 00:29:50.269 --> 00:29:51.219 Let's just go over there. 00:29:51.589 --> 00:29:55.509 So not only do they leave, but now the word of mouth machine is 00:29:55.509 --> 00:29:56.939 growing for Joe Schmo's forum. 00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:58.829 Now, could I have fixed all this? 00:29:59.319 --> 00:29:59.839 Probably? 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:00.249 Maybe? 00:30:00.249 --> 00:30:00.779 I don't know. 00:30:00.939 --> 00:30:05.409 But in hindsight, what I know is that if I would have checked my ego and just 00:30:05.409 --> 00:30:07.119 thought, how do I be of service here? 00:30:07.529 --> 00:30:12.619 How do I view every single one of these members as a, as a huge blessing, 00:30:13.939 --> 00:30:18.639 treat them accordingly, be honest and transparent and supportive. 00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:21.559 Would that have changed things? 00:30:22.569 --> 00:30:23.949 I think it would have changed them some. 00:30:24.889 --> 00:30:26.619 Would the business have survived and thrived? 00:30:26.629 --> 00:30:27.259 I don't know. 00:30:27.269 --> 00:30:31.819 Because if you go go back to the beginning with me, when I said how this golden 00:30:31.819 --> 00:30:36.569 path to success that we'd created was so tight, it was so reliable, so predictable. 00:30:37.449 --> 00:30:41.799 That when Google changed their algorithm, our whole golden path was out the window. 00:30:42.639 --> 00:30:43.989 And then that's exactly what happened. 00:30:45.159 --> 00:30:52.479 Sometime 2010, 2011, there was a sweeping change to the Google algorithm, and it 00:30:52.479 --> 00:30:56.919 seemed like pretty much overnight, you know, huge swaths of our members, these 00:30:56.919 --> 00:31:01.979 1, earners, saw their income go to zero. 00:31:02.569 --> 00:31:08.149 So, I say that because even if I had not been,, kind of an arrogant, volatile 00:31:08.179 --> 00:31:12.869 kid, In the whole process, the business still might've failed because it was 00:31:12.869 --> 00:31:14.469 built on such a shaky foundation. 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.519 This foundation of Google's algorithm that they can change anytime they want. 00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:21.609 But I can still take the lessons away from it. 00:31:21.949 --> 00:31:27.689 Lessons like treat your customers with gratitude and respect. 00:31:27.699 --> 00:31:30.129 It doesn't mean let them abuse you, but it means treat them 00:31:30.129 --> 00:31:31.479 with gratitude and respect. 00:31:32.089 --> 00:31:33.419 Leave your ego out of it. 00:31:33.939 --> 00:31:35.059 You're getting paid. 00:31:37.149 --> 00:31:38.009 You're getting paid. 00:31:38.459 --> 00:31:39.229 Take the money. 00:31:39.639 --> 00:31:40.519 Say thank you. 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:41.909 Treat people well. 00:31:42.679 --> 00:31:45.899 Take the time to dig into your business and understand what really 00:31:45.899 --> 00:31:48.709 makes it work because what really makes it work may be very different 00:31:48.709 --> 00:31:50.409 from what you think makes it work. 00:31:50.749 --> 00:31:54.909 I was sure that our business was so successful because we had created 00:31:54.909 --> 00:31:56.379 this golden path to success. 00:31:57.579 --> 00:32:01.019 Well, the reality is people could get that golden path a lot of different places. 00:32:01.354 --> 00:32:04.814 It might be slightly different, but they could get it a lot of different places. 00:32:04.814 --> 00:32:09.494 What they really were paying us for was this combination of community and 00:32:09.494 --> 00:32:12.464 support and these tools we'd built. 00:32:14.264 --> 00:32:16.184 So just sort of check yourself. 00:32:16.884 --> 00:32:19.704 Do you know what really drives the success of your business forward? 00:32:20.164 --> 00:32:23.544 Is your ego telling you that it's one thing when the reality is it's 00:32:23.544 --> 00:32:25.044 something completely different? 00:32:25.934 --> 00:32:28.604 Are you taking credit for aspects of your success that actually 00:32:28.604 --> 00:32:29.874 have nothing to do with you? 00:32:30.614 --> 00:32:37.869 I mean, I'll say at the time too, I was also really sure that I was The biggest 00:32:37.879 --> 00:32:41.129 part of our success, Quartz and my success, because I was the one who had 00:32:41.169 --> 00:32:46.889 conceived of the business model and I had implemented it and I, I created the tools 00:32:46.889 --> 00:32:49.779 and I did all of these things that ended up being the back end of the business. 00:32:50.159 --> 00:32:53.419 And I, I'll admit that at the time, I really was undervaluing 00:32:53.419 --> 00:32:56.539 what Court had contributed, but Court had done the heavy lifting. 00:32:56.539 --> 00:33:01.039 Court had lined up thousands of people for me to say, hey, do 00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:02.099 you want to join this membership? 00:33:02.919 --> 00:33:04.079 And a lot of them said yes. 00:33:04.489 --> 00:33:06.659 But without those thousands of people, it wouldn't have mattered. 00:33:06.659 --> 00:33:09.429 I could have created the best back end for this business in the whole world. 00:33:09.739 --> 00:33:11.179 There would have been nobody to offer it to. 00:33:11.489 --> 00:33:17.079 So, as you look at your business, have honest conversations with yourself 00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.929 about what's really driving it forward. 00:33:20.369 --> 00:33:21.999 It doesn't mean your contribution doesn't count. 00:33:22.009 --> 00:33:23.299 My contribution counted. 00:33:24.869 --> 00:33:28.739 But I was undervaluing other people's contributions, including my 00:33:28.739 --> 00:33:30.539 business partner and my customers. 00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:34.019 And ultimately that, I mean, that really hurt the business. 00:33:34.049 --> 00:33:35.199 Could we have saved it again? 00:33:35.199 --> 00:33:38.979 I don't know, but I know that I won't make those mistakes again. 00:33:40.049 --> 00:33:42.239 So that's, that's the story in April of 2009. 00:33:42.249 --> 00:33:45.939 We launched by a year later, we were probably at 30, 000 a month. 00:33:46.694 --> 00:33:49.824 A few months later, we were at 50, 000 a month, and that 50, 000 a month 00:33:49.824 --> 00:33:52.484 lasted probably six, eight months. 00:33:53.024 --> 00:33:54.684 Then Google started making these changes. 00:33:55.064 --> 00:33:56.944 Mark's ego started getting in the way. 00:33:57.324 --> 00:34:01.874 Next thing you knew, by the end of 2012, the business was on its way out. 00:34:02.554 --> 00:34:05.654 We had spun off a couple of different pieces of software that ended up 00:34:05.654 --> 00:34:07.074 getting sold, and that was fun. 00:34:07.134 --> 00:34:08.814 Sold as independent businesses, I mean. 00:34:08.814 --> 00:34:09.464 That was fun. 00:34:09.474 --> 00:34:10.744 It was a great learning experience. 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:13.349 But the business was on its way out. 00:34:13.829 --> 00:34:15.299 Court had lost enthusiasm for it. 00:34:15.329 --> 00:34:16.809 I had lost enthusiasm for it. 00:34:17.309 --> 00:34:19.969 And basically at the end of 2012, we wound it down. 00:34:21.309 --> 00:34:24.119 I will tell you now that I know that I will create another 00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:25.629 50, 000 per month business, 00:34:28.289 --> 00:34:30.659 and I will take all the lessons I learned from that failure. 00:34:32.379 --> 00:34:34.359 And apply them to the new venture. 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:39.219 I'll do a much, much better job of leaving my ego at the door. 00:34:39.749 --> 00:34:44.519 I'll do a much, much better job of focusing on content and methods that I 00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.459 can teach people that are not going to be erased overnight by a big corporation. 00:34:50.919 --> 00:34:56.359 And I'll also take with me the memory that when you deliver real value and 00:34:56.359 --> 00:35:00.849 when you create real community, The business can take on a life of its 00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:04.189 own and produce more income than you really ever thought was possible. 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.449 I will never take for granted again a 50, 000 per month business because 00:35:08.449 --> 00:35:12.149 that's an amazing success and I look forward to creating it again. 00:35:13.829 --> 00:35:16.509 So that's what I got for you and I will talk to you next week.