Welcome to working towards our purpose, a podcast that offers
a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone out
there that's heard that voice in the back their head, asking for something
more. It's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,
and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their
own purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,
and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.
Joining me today is my friend, Derek Oxley, who is a business
strategist, a coach, an author, and host of the Behind the
Wheel podcast. Derek is on a mission to amplify the voices of
others, and he's been someone who's always been inspiring to me when we're
in conversations together. Derek, welcome to working towards our
purpose. Thank you for having me, man. I I appreciate it, Gino.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm excited about our conversation here today. Why why don't you
just start with a little bit tell me in your own words, what you do
and and who you are? I'm an educator. I I, you
know, I I use podcasting as a way
to help people express themselves and amplify the voices
of ordinary people who I believe are doing some extraordinary
things in their communities. And, I found
that through through a roundabout way, coming through
corporate, Starting in 1st in in special education department back
in Brooklyn, working with my mentor, fresh out of high school, working
in special ed department, And just watching
how this leader impacted the lives of people inspired me to wanna get
into, to education. So I I went down that path.
Yeah. And so this is, after spending some time
in, you know, running a dropout prevention program, worked with
my mentor for 4 years, and then, You you learn, and you're
watching and observing. And at some point, you wanna get out of the nest and
go and try to apply some of the lessons that you've learned. And,
So I did that for, a number of years in East New York,
Brooklyn. They called me, detective McGruff back then. I was not a
cop, But I did wear a bow tie and,
traveled throughout East New York, knocking on doors, trying to get young people to come
to school. Started off as outreach work. I've worked my way up to a case
manager and then a, a senior case manager. And I probably would have
stayed In that position for a while, if my
director didn't say I had a well fit mentality. It's funny how
Words can can inspire you or can piss you off. And in this setting,
it pissed me off. Got I was on the 5th floor. I ran down the
stairs. Mind you, there's an elevator, right outside my office.
And instead of taking the elevator, I ran down a flight of steps to get
in the car because I had to have this individual say it to me in
my face. I don't know why. I don't know what I was thinking. Was it
the confrontation? It just seems so odd that somebody would
say some that's not a compliment. It's not you know, I I took it as
a It's like it it was it was a little offensive, a
little surprising to hear, mainly because, the
1st year we started, we had a, We work during the summer.
So, you know, you you you have a a summer program. You work during the
year, and then the summertime, you have a summer program. You take the kids out
on trips, and That was cool. I was like, oh, okay. This is almost like
a full time gig. You know, you come back. You have a a couple of
weeks before you return to school after the summer and start the school year all
over again. And one of the things my mentor mentioned to me is that when
you start these programs, Derek, they, they depend on
funding. So the 2nd year it started, He waited to the end of
the year, the school year, and then he said, oh, by the way, we won't
be having a summer program this year. And so now I'm, like,
wait a second. You know, my kids are young, and I'm like, I got
a family. No. You know, you have these mixed emotions going on in
your head. Like, why didn't you tell me? So we're in a meeting.
You're having cake and pastries and intimates cakes. Not nothing, you
know, special. So I'm like, why am I sitting here Wasting
my time. Now this is what I felt. You could've told me this beforehand. And
then now so now I gotta figure something out. So you fast forward to
have the the next year. I I didn't wait till the end. You know, you
you talk about the power of relationships and developing relationships with the school
staff. I was able to to, create a program that got us funding
And got him a job for that summer. So when he said this to me,
it's like as if I have a wealth of mentality. It's like, you you almost
have to feel as though you need credit. And I was that was the type
of person I was. I was petty back then. You know? Like, I I needed
to remind you, well, I needed to get credit. And
having approval was was important because it just seemed it
seemed odd. It seemed like a wrong that needed to be righted. And I
wanted to just I wanted justification. I wanted to feel, you know,
validated. And looking for that, you don't you don't There's no validation. There's
no you know, I didn't I didn't feel better after this conversation. You know? I
I felt, you know, okay, a little relief or whatever, but I left and I
realized I had lost respect for them, and I needed to find something else to
do because I could no longer just come into work and act as
though I respect this person when when I had lost backfob.
You know? Mhmm. So, yeah, that's just a a brief
history. Yeah. No. That that kinda, reminded
me of the 1st big corporate job that I quit. I was there for, like,
3 years and same sort of thing. I like, the things that my boss said
to me just, like, Didn't sit well, and I started resenting him.
And, I had this whole, like, thing planned. And when I initially quit, I
was like, I'm gonna stick it to him is gonna be the best feeling ever.
And, like, it felt good for, like, a second. But then I saw that, like,
he didn't care, and I was, like, oh, I can't do this for him. I
have to do it for me. Like, you have to get your own validation. You
know what I mean? Like, it's not gonna if even if he got upset and,
like, was sad about it, like, what's that gonna do for me? Right?
Yeah. So that's kinda funny. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It was a good
learning experience. But yeah. So, like, when you were coming out of,
like, high school and, like, I guess as a kid, like, what did you wanna
be? Did you have any dreams of, like, doing this or that as a kid?
Or You know, when I was, was
exploring, dabbling with different things, I picked up
sewing As an experiment, you know, it was it was something
I was interested in. The and my mother used to make my clothes. Right? She
made these I remember she made these corduroy pants, And Corduroy has
a grain in in the fabric, and I was curious as to why
these pants look different. The color was different because
The grain was going a different direction. I remember rubbing my hands on
my lap, and 1 grain was it felt smooth one way, and then it felt
a little rough. And I was, mommy, like, these pants, something wrong with the past.
She was like, no. It's the same fabric. I'm like, no. There's something I
can feel the difference in the fabric. So that curiosity
Started me down this path when I took sewing, when I was in high school.
And then there's this feeling of, you know, you're a dude, middle of the
crack epidemic, sewing. That's really not I I I was I
wasn't secure enough, but I I did it. I was sewing. And I went
to I remember going to the, Going to the cleaners to figure
out, like, what they were charging. At at one point, straight legs
before straight legs became, like like, fashionable now, you can't even find a pair flail
legs unless you go to the thrift shop or whatever. But flail legs were the
thing. And then as straight legs were coming out,
weren't making them straight legs. You'd have to go and get them tapered. And so
they would bring their pants to a cleaners, and I practice making a
straight line, You know, tapering people's plans. I was I
was the go to person in the neighborhood. Everybody would bring their pants to me,
and I would taper them. So I then I realized, oh, The sewing thing is
not too bad. You know? It I thought it was gonna be,
you know, you know, you people look at you funny because it's sewing. It's not
A traditional male role or so I thought. And I ended up going
to FIT, major in patent making.
And that that skill that I that I picked up in,
in high school. So there was a program in high school that you would spend
some time As a high school student at FIT, and so when
I graduated from high school, I, you know, I started going to, Brooklyn College first,
and then I transferred to FIT. And I was, you know, majoring in
pattern making, and that skill came in handy when I left,
Colony South Brooklyn houses And, you know, started sewing. You
know? Mhmm. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So I I definitely have noticed that just,
you know, knowing you for however long we've known each other,
That curiosity seems to be like a word that, maybe is important to you.
It seems like you you follow that curiosity a lot. And that's kind of been,
like, my word of the years to to follow more so, like, the things that
I'm interested in. I was gonna ask you this a little later, but it kinda
comes up now. You do so many different things, it seems, and there's so
many different interests that you have. How do you decide, like, what to
focus on or, like, what to work on? Do you use curiosity
as kinda the the thing to follow, or do you have, like, some sort of
more regimented schedule as far as, like, the content that you create and that sort
of thing. Like, how does that work? The the as far as, like, the
content, I'm not regimented. You know? Like, I have a I realized when I have
a routine, especially when I'm training for a marathon,
so there's a set schedule, you know, on this day. You know, I have the
schedule lined up for 16 or 18 weeks, and you know what's going on each
day and you kinda fill in the blanks around whatever
my life, like, work life or whatever was going on. I make sure I gotta
get running on this day, speed, work, track
work, long run, and you have sort of like a routine. That that was sort
of like the the the structure. And I know when I they're off
from that, then, yeah, I can pick up when I okay. I'm I might be
feeling a little antsy or whatever. But as far as the content and how
I go about creating it or what I find how I balance
out the the interest the varied interest is I don't
follow trends necessarily because that kind of goes and comes. You
know? It's things that I'm interested in or something that I think someone
might find interesting. It may not necessarily be,
you know, Gino, I thought you were interesting. You know? Oh, okay. This
guy's having a conversation with somebody else's doing
producing a podcast, producing a show, or talking about podcasting. That's
I'm I'm interested in that. Well, how did you get started? You know? So
hearing that story, I would follow down that that
that path or it's it's simple as a lawn
sign. I saw a lawn sign that said,
StoryLab. I was like, what is the StoryLab? Like, what it it just see
it it the signs, it sounds intriguing. I had a big pencil on there.
So I've I would pick up the phone. I would call. What is the story
lab? And come to find out, it's a shared coworking space
specifically For writers. Wow. And so now I'm like, oh, I gotta I gotta come
and check this out. And going and, so it's it's part
of his curiosity, intuition, And following it because it
I've I've what I've learned is it it leads to other things. And going and
finding out about the story lab Is, I met the the
founder, Carol. And as we're having this conversation, they were in
Westport. Now they relocated to Fairfield County. At
the time, they were in Westport, 4th floor. I walked up the stairs.
It's sort of like this, like, low key abandoned
not abandoned, but not a very active building. And so I
get to the top floor. A short white woman opens up
the door, And she doesn't look surprised. Right?
So it's not like, I've been around you know, I'm accustomed
to to being around People that that don't necessarily look
like me in different settings, but I don't think the same is
is can be said of people who are, like, I'm
I'm seeing this person in Westport, this black man, and
he's some people seem, you know, Shocked
or surprised. You can tell they have limited interaction with different people. They
haven't broadened the horizons. And so she there was none of that. So
that she was in there by herself, which I don't know if I would
let me in my space by myself. And I'm
not a threatening person, but I could see having
pause. Initially, he opened up the door and there's this guy here, and it's like
but she was in shock. She wasn't surprised. We had a beautiful conversation. And
afterwards, she said, Do you know Lorraine? I was like, no. She
she runs the Cardinal Sheehan Center. I think she would be a good person for
you to meet. Her and Lorraine were friends. I'm like, okay.
Sure. And Lorraine runs the, the Cardinal
Sheehan Center here in Bridgeport. And it's through following
the curiosity What is the StoryLab
about? What is that? And making the phone
call, taking, you know, a trip down to Westport
To you know, get going through a tour of this shared
co working space for writers. And
being genuinely interested, I'm not I wasn't expecting anything because I didn't
know who Carole was. I didn't know who Lorraine was at the time. I drive
by the Cardinal Sheehan Center. I just thought it was sports. I'd never been inside.
And as a result of that phone call, I now teach podcasting here
at at the Cardinal Sharing Center. And so it's
the that that's part of what How I decide, like, what I'm gonna lose
intuition. Mhmm. Some things and it's not always looking. It's it's I I
try to do things and not expecting anything in return. This way, I don't get
disappointed. Yeah. Wow. That that's awesome story, and thanks for sharing that.
See, every time I have a conversation with you, this always happens. You always
like, the the words that you use are, like, words that are
very relevant for me right now. Like, no expectations, like, intuition. It's
been something that's over the past couple weeks have been, like, very
important to me. Just kinda like letting things happen, and then, like,
seeing simple signs that, like, reassure you, like, yeah. That
that was a good decision, or that was the right decision, or this is the
path to keep following. So I myself am am trying to, like, lean more into
that and, like, just go with, like, the feeling that, you you know, like, you
you said intuition is something that I'm not normally used to or,
like, trying to follow. I've I've always been, like, a very head person
and, like, thinking about stuff logically. But Mhmm. Yeah. Just like you said, like, if
you weren't curious about You you know, you you didn't go into it thinking you
were gonna get some sort of job, but, like, it just happened. So that yeah.
It's a that's like a perfect story to to, put put all those words
together for me. So I I know that, at
one point, we talked about you having, like, a a corporate job that
you didn't like. I guess I'm I'm more interested now in, like,
how you transitioned into, like, what you do now. And, like, you said
that teaching has always kinda been something that got you excited. What
was your transition like from doing what you did 10
years ago to doing what you do now, and how is it ever evolving?
It it it it's continuing that's a that's a great question. It's continuing
to evolve. Right? So While I was going through
before I made the the jump from working in the classroom,
I started sewing. Right? And and so that fashion, I felt knotted in
a box. I was reaching for, for for
a tie. Right? I felt knotted in a
box. And I remember reading this book, Acres of
Diamonds. And and it's it's a story about this farmer
who He's he's he's going off in search of
diamonds. He never did find the diamonds. He ends up committing
suicide. Somebody on his land Comes in and
realizes that in his backyard is like the greatest diamond
mine ever right there in his backyard. So I remember putting the book down and
went and So how could I apply this book to my life? And so
I looked around, and you're able to then tap back into your
your skills, talents, and abilities that you have. And how could I could I
take a straight tie and turn it into a bow tie? So you talk about
that curiosity. So the curiosity and and wondering,
Let me reverse engineer. Take this straight tie apart
and turn it into a bow tie. During the during the years of
me traveling back and forth from Brentwood to East New York,
Brooklyn. I would pop management tapes
in, the CDs in of leadership marketing, but
it was it was just an, For me, it was personal
development and trying to figure out, well, there's gotta be
an incentive for a kid. It's gotta be something that they're interested in. And
so how do you how do you there's a connection, I
believe, between music and and lyrics and jingles.
Right. Brandon jingles, you know, something Marlboro tastes good like
a cigarette should or Virginia Slims. These jingles, you remember, and
they stick in your head. And so how there's gotta be a connection.
Like, why is that why do we remember that phrase? So what is this
connection between music? You can hear A couple
of bars of a song, and then and it takes you back to where you
were at that time or there's there's something about a scent, and it reminds you
of a person. I was just interested in those kinds of things. Right?
And so I would listen to these tapes, and so now you're consuming
all this information over a period of time. And so it gave me the
confidence, 1, to say, okay. Well, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I know
I can't do that. And, There's this thing
about alignment and making sure that you what you're saying and what you do
and what you believe is, one and the same.
And when when it's when it's not connected, you'll have
this internal discomfort. Right? You feel uneasy. I'm at this job.
I really don't feel like being here. And it's not that I'm you're a
disgruntled employee, but, you know, your heart is not in it. And
you believe one thing deeply here. You're doing
something that that's, like, you don't believe in. It's like working
you know, selling cigarettes, and you believe you know that cigarettes are bad for people,
but You you believe that they're bad for people, but you're still selling them. At
some point, you gotta make a decision that, okay, I can't.
This is not I can't be a part of this. I'm a I'm a part
of the problem. And you wonder, like, why do I feel this ease? You
know? And there was this point where I'm feeling as though I'm spending
time away from my family, but meanwhile, I was saying my family was
important. So there's this disconnect. And when I made the decision, and I didn't make
this decision, like, if you would've never said that, I probably would've continued
working there. But it forced me to stop And
then rely like, figure out, like, what am I gonna do? And it
led from sewing. It gave me some time with my kids
during the daytime. You're work working with your hands. You're
creating something. It it causes you to, like, tap into a different part of your
brain. You're create you're taking something that
that was once something. It was a tie, and now
I'm making it a different kind of tie or I'm I'm adding that. It it
just causes you to to think differently. And then while you're while
you're sewing or you're washing dishes or something, You get
a chance to to relax. It's therapeutic. You know? So while
I'm doing that, I'm like, I walk into a Kinko's
to, To get some thank you cards, because I figured it would be a nice
touch. You know, I I mail out the bow tie to to someone and put
a thank you card inside of it. You know, you're picking up these tips from,
you know, something I read, you know, just like the chocolate on on
the pillow. And so as I'm in this Kinko's, I'm having
this conversation with the guy behind the counter, Bob Miller, and he starts telling
me about Kinko's. Kinko's was a startup at the time. I didn't know it was
a startup. I was from a different world. So now I'm in there, And
he's telling me about the founder, and the guy had kinky hair and
started in California. And he said you should send a sample of your
ties to this hockey player. And I'm a black guy from Brooklyn. I don't
play hockey. And so just the thought of him
saying he thought enough of me to say, yo, you send this guy a sample
of your ties. I thought that was a nice gesture. I thought that was cool.
So I'm I'm listening to this story, and he's telling me about Kinko's. And I
said, you know what? Let let me find out about you know, we're hiring. I'm
like, really? And so I'm thinking, okay. I I I would make these
ties during the day, And I could do this overnight job, and it
would help balance out and make some of the difference. You know? So we it
was all cool until we tell them how much it was how much they were
paying. Listen. We could do $8
and, 50¢ night differential. And he's going through this, like, this
agonizing thing just like, you know, $8.50.
My I'm like, 8.50. This was a huge pay cut. Right? But
I was like, okay. Sure. I had I had gotten to a point where
I had stopped worried about what people thought, And this
was in alignment with where what I what I felt, it would
be close. It was like a town over. So I saved some
commute. I'm I'm starting to factor in, okay. Alright.
How much time was I spending on the road? 2 hours They're 2
hours back. That's 4 hours, the wear and tear on the car, and you
start doing all these calculations to justify, like, this decision. And I
was like, okay. I'm doing it. And people will I mean, my my in laws
were like, what what is the kinkles? Like, what do you do? Why don't
you you know, just the guessing. And I had I was so,
Like, in my mind, this is what I'm doing. I'm not worrying about
anybody else. I'm I'm just gonna go ahead. This is what I feel like I
need to do because if I'm doing that, The commute
2 hours they are 2 hours back, and I'm not
spending any time at home. It's just like, I'm not doing it. 3
months later, I was they they had a trainer's position
posted, and I was and I applied for the job and had gotten the job.
And then 18 months later, there was another position posted for manager and
training position, and so I applied to
that. And as I applied to that role, they
started shrinking the trainer's roles. So it wasn't like I
Saw the writing on the wall. It was just following intuition, and now I'm
in the manager and training program. And I helped open up a bunch of branches
in Long Island, Melville, Hicksville, Greenville,
New Hyde Park, turnaround a a a struggling branch.
And, So that that was the transition.
But what I what I realized is as you're going through, like, these
changes and you're making these decisions, you know, Stephen Covey talks
about climbing the ladder of success, and you get to the top,
and you realize that the ladder was leaning against the wrong
building. Right? And it was like, oh, man. In reading that, I was
like, ah. I had gotten to to the top. It was like the number
1 branch in the market and the most improved branch.
But because I was so focused on
just proving my my my district manager wrong at the time, I remember him saying,
you know, I wouldn't have promoted you. And unlike with all due respect, it wasn't
wasn't even your decision to make. You weren't here. Now you're new in this district,
and so it's that that extra Like, someone not believing
in you and just saying, I don't you can't do that. And now you're like,
I'm a I'm a show you. You know, that that that
becomes like cheap fuel. It'll get you started, but if that's what
you're if that's your your only motivation for doing it,
Then at some point, you're gonna burn out, and it's not gonna it's not gonna
be lasting. You're not gonna have lasting success. So I got to the
top, and then it was like I had alienated everyone else That was around
me. Right? So my it it you know, married and and
just, like, thinking, you don't believe in me, So I'm not gonna try
to convince you any longer, and and now it it it
starts to create a wedge. Right. So it met
someone telling you about something in in a sense in infancy stages and
you don't see it. They don't see it, but you see it clear.
And then it becomes why how can you not see this? Like,
what is it? It's not your job to try to
convince someone That what you're doing, what
you feel led to do is the thing that you should be doing. It's not
it's not that's not like part of the gig. Like, when the
assignment is was given to you, when the vision was shown to you, it
wasn't it wasn't like so you're going to have to convince this
person That this is the right no. You don't. Don't don't
even dispense any energy on that. It it's just it's not for you.
It's not for them. It's for you. And you you know, you
can be supportive, but you can there was just
this buildup of resentment, You know, that can occur if you're
not careful, as you're going through this process of this
change, and it's a change. You're making a transition from
Social work to, retail
management, leadership, training and development. It's like 2 different
worlds. And now you you're expecting someone to to
see, like, what you see and feel what you've and
and it's not is it realistic? I don't
know. I I I'm you have different
people, and I'm a Libra. Right.
So for me, when I think of the sign, the Libra, it's like a
it's like it reminds me of a bell curve. Right. So you see on on
the on the fur the latter end of the, the bell curve over
here is, like, you have innovative people. They cute you know, they
just create stuff. They see things before it happens.
The large majority of people in the middle. Right?
So now I have to become sort of, like, mainstream, then they're like, oh,
everybody's got a podcast now. But but it initially started out, it was you
know, you had a few geeks who were they just they they
they're creating this thing. They're doing this thing. They thought it was cool, and
the RSS, and it that was the feed, and they would tell these stories, this
American life, and and those that was you had a very
it was a very controlled market. Right? And when I heard about
it, it was o seven. And I remember bringing the idea
to a district manager. I was at Kinko's. They would send out CDs, these
training CDs. I'm like, why don't we just do a podcast? He's
like, a podcast? Nah. I mean, I don't do that. They have a podcast
now. But Of course. But sometimes you can be you can be
ahead of the curve, and sometimes you you can get You can get discouraged,
and that's why I think it it's important to find your tribe.
Find people who who are passionate about who who have
similar interests Mhmm. That you have
because there there there'll be those like, there'll be naysayers. If you're not careful,
you'll wind up extinguishing your your
dream. They will wind up killing your dream in its infancy
stages if you're not careful. And when you get the initial
idea, you you have to protect it
because people will will will We'll tell you what?
And maybe it's because they're trying to protect you or they see the
the whole idea of you doing something. How has it
been for you? You you you're starting this this show. What was
it like for you? What are people what are people saying to you about
you you left your job to start this this thing.
I was I was gonna comment on that because that's I I you said something,
previously, that, like, you stopped worrying about what other people were thinking. And I
think that's something that I've kind of learned. Like, I I would always do it
kinda quiet. Like, I would just start and, you know, start with a
couple people and then start kinda telling people. And then once you do something and
then people see it, they're like, oh, that's really cool. But if you told if
you tell them too early, sometimes it could be, like you said, you
didn't put out your own fire. I I I learned quickly, I guess, that,
like, just don't tell like, when you meet the person that
you're supposed to tell, you'll feel it, and then you'll automatic you'll just tell them.
You know what I mean? Like Yeah. Some of our first conversations, we just, like,
talked about these awesome crazy ideas that we had and, like, that you just felt
like, I knew that you were receptive of that. And most
people I, me, or most pea and it's hard sometimes too because, like, you have
friends that you've had for a long time, but you know that maybe they won't
understand it in the same way that you will. And I kinda just try to
keep things separate and, like, know who I'm supposed
to talk to about certain things and who I'm not. Again, an Intuit kind of
a feeling thing, intuition maybe. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. I I
definitely, I definitely feel what you're saying. So we
met at a a networking event. And for me, networking and community
and people just like we're talking about have been,
like, exponential in in my own personal growth or business growth or whatever you wanna
call it. Have have you also had a similar experience
with, like, community and and people. And, like, how how does that affect your
own, path and your own visions of of how how you wanna
do things? You meet different people. And when I
started when I came to Connecticut, it was
you know, after coming through, I go you know, you going through the divorce,
you know, sort of a dark period in my life. I
wasn't running. I was wasn't doing wasn't doing
anything physical, so it was just work. And I had burnt myself out.
You know? You can hold on to past
hurt. You can hold on you have
a misunderstanding of not
caring about what people think. If you look up the word like
apathetic, and you're almost just hearing it, you you even not
before even know knowing what the word it means, it just Gives you sort of
like a negative connotation. You know, apathetic. You know, people are
apathetic. People who don't care about what other people, you know,
other people's feelings, They they're considered apathetic. And so
it's almost like this negative connotation
about not caring about the feelings of other people.
And there was a study said about, people stop
worrying about what people think about they they studied, like, 200 people or 2,000 people,
I think it was, in London. And they said people stop caring
about what people think about 46 when they get about 46 years old. I'm like,
how much time has it lapsed and you you've gotten to appointment. Now
you're, like, 46, and now you're just starting to
you gotta think you have to do that much earlier. And it doesn't mean, like,
yeah, I don't care if running rough shot over people's feelings. You have
to be selfish enough to To realize,
like, if you're on a plane and this you know, you
have to put your oxygen mask on first. And that's what they tell you.
Right? So why do we have you have to wait until a crisis to
realize you've gotta take care of yourself first because you can't.
We can't help anybody without our body. And if you're if
I'm not fully functioning, if I'm not
a full human being. This whole thing of,
oh, she completes me or he completes me.
I think you're a complete individual already.
They might compliment you, but having this whole idea
of, you know, you you're you're responsible for someone else's happiness
and And you're really thinking about people can use that
to manipulate you to get what they want. And when you're
no longer willing to to say, I'm gonna do what you wanna
do because you're gonna be happy. The no. I'm
not responsible for For your happiness. You're not
responsible for my happiness. I have a I have a life. You have a
life, and we're responsible To live out our lives and our purpose while
we're here. You gotta find you gotta figure that out. And if you're
spending time, like, trying to please everyone else, you'll never
Figure out what you wanna do. I you can't wait till you're 46 just to
try to start figuring out. I mean, if you do, well, fine. But if
you You're 46 now. I'm no knocking nobody's 46.
I'm waiting that long, I think, would would do more harm
than than good. You know? And so just just being
able to just figure out, like, yo, it was it was not
a it was not a good scene. So community When I started
running, I found the running community. Right? I found,
I found something that, Allowed
me to to get into a rhythm, a routine, some
balance. You need an outlet. You need an outlet, a
hobby, something That is going to take your mind
off of the pressures from work, something to think about. You're going out
you're going out on a trail and Just the
breathing. Getting, you know, getting in tune with who you are.
Just movement. There's just something about movement.
Just to just to sit, a sedentary lifestyle, just
sitting down all day. Your hips get tight. You know, your hip
You don't feel you're so tired that you all you wanna do is is
sit. You know, your your your must your glutes
are not activated any longer, you know, your posture. It
just impacts so much of us. And by running I found this running
community And start tapping in to to
my creative, like, creativity. Running and
And writing down my thoughts and trying to figure out I think, you know, you
had different, like, groups. And Amazon was like, you know, why don't we
Why can't we all come together? You know, I'm I'm that's that's me not saying
Kumbaya, but there's just something about you got a group over here,
And everybody's got their own little group and and but we're all doing
this thing together, and some people like, I don't, you know, I don't really rock
with those people, and I don't really rock with those. You know, you have
ultra marathoners, you know, these guys who are doing 100 miles, then
You have people who were doing, you know, maybe just
a marathon 26.2 miles, and you have some people who are doing 50
allies, and you have people who are trail runners. So then even within the running
community, you got these little subgroups, and then you have people who
are more fast. Right? And then you have people who
were bigger. So you have you know, I'm like, well,
don't discount this person because they're not like you.
I'm an elite runner. You know? I don't I don't run with music, but I
run with I like music. I'm sorry. I'm gonna run with music. It it helps
me get out of my head. I'm thinking about the music. But you have all
these things, and just to be able to understand,
differences and appreciate everyone else's difference. And when I when I
think about marketing and you think about branding, when you You try
to appeal to everyone, you end up not appealing
to anyone. So finding community was cool. At
At first, within the running community, I met some great people, interview tons
of people, from all over the world, some interesting
stories, but I'm not a, I'm not an elitist.
Right? So I I'm not gonna owe just I just I just deal with this
group. You know? I don't I don't particularly. I like I don't I don't you
know, I'm an ultra marathon. I don't really talk to people who do 5 k's.
Well, you know, they're runners. Okay. You do a 100
miles. That's your That's your jam. That's what you enjoy doing.
Somebody's just starting out, and they're going from the couch to a 5 k,
and that's a huge accomplishment for them. I'm I'm just
glad you out there running. Right? And
so finding community and understanding that That yeah. That
that's powerful. And even in in networking, I don't I don't really
like the the yeah. I'm I'm in awe I I don't
I'm allergic to BS. So I I I break out in
hives around BS. So it just so when I sense it,
I just like, okay. This is not for me, and let me let me, let
me move on. I don't yeah. Mhmm. That's that's the type
of person I am. I don't wanna go and just with you smiling
and what can I get from you? And and that's, For some people, that's what
it is. Like, what could I get from you? Mhmm. You know? And if and
if you you become a pawn or they see you as
A key to getting them where they want to go, and it's not
a mutual exchange. It's it's I'm just more
interest like, what I'm curious about you as a person before we
can even talk about business whether or not I'm interested in doing any if I
don't even like you, You don't like me. We're never gonna do business. It's not
gonna happen because you don't like me. Well, I don't like you. People
do business with people who they like, But I I can't
be I can't fake it because that's that's a lot
of acting. It's tiring. That's a lot of acting. Right? So,
I mean, If I wanted to be an actor, then
I should I should take acting classes, but I shouldn't pretend
through life. Going through life acting as though, you know, living your
life like this is I hate this job, but you're getting up and putting on
this this chair. Like, why? Why do that? Like, if that's not
why do that? Because because everybody else does.
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. No. I I definitely resonate with that.
After experiencing both sides, I feel like, it took me a while to,
like, force myself out of that. Sometimes it's a you know, it's
downstream, and you're kinda just it's hard to to get out of the current. But,
yeah. No. I think I think that's a good kinda depiction
of, like, 2 choices that you have in life, because it is a choice. Yeah.
So yeah. We're kinda coming to the end of our time a little bit. I
got bunch more questions I wanna ask you. But did you get into podcasting
originally as, like, a a runner's podcast? And because I know at one point
you had some sort of running podcast, or was that behind the wheel at the
beginning? How how did that work? Behind the I started it,
This this person who I never met before, Tina,
in Texas, I was doing these these running,
running recaps. So every week, as a way of sort of
uniting the running community, I would take clips.
Every Monday After the weekend, it's called medal
Monday. Right? So you have you get people into, like, a routine.
So after they run a race, you know that they're going to post
The accomplishment. You know, they get the the participation trophy whether it's a
triathlete, whether it's a marathon, an ultra marathon, a half marathon. They get
a medal, they get to participation, and they're proud about it, and they showcase
it. So I figured, okay. I will use that as a medium
to kinda bring people together And use music
to, get them to listen to whatever message I would
write. So now I said, okay. Now I gotta figure out how to do a,
I'll I'll rap. I wasn't a rapper. So I had to figure out, well,
I'm gonna rap, and I'm gonna create a beat. That's why I love Apple, so
I got my garage on my phone, you know, and I got
it on my iPad. And so I would use this to create
a track for the mic, and now I'm using the
microphone to to write a story, and and how can I tell
a story about running in 2 to 3 minutes?
And and I I just said I would do it. So it ended up being
over, like, 2 years. And there's this sister, Tina, she kept she said, you should
do a podcast. You should do a podcast, and she kept saying this.
And I was resistant to the idea of doing a podcast because when I thought
about it in o seven, this district manager was like, no.
You shouldn't do it. So I was like, I don't wanna revisit this thing. What
I'm gonna do? Who am I gonna talk to? So and I just started doing
it. You know what, Gino? You got 2 phones? Do me a favor.
I wanna interview you, but you need 2 phones. So
I'm a put I'm a put my phone in my pocket. I have my wire,
and I'm gonna call you. And, I need you
to use the other phone to record yourself. And so then I would take,
like, the picture in picture, This image here and then record you know,
post it inside of my clip, and I'll sync the 2 together. So the beginning
of the shows, I would have you say, I need you to do a countdown.
Five four three two one so I could have a marker. And then we would
I would sync the conversation and start record, and That's how I did the
1st couple of episodes, and I just did it because teen so she
would stop telling me to, to do a podcast. And then
as as as I went on, then it was okay. I I thought
your story was interesting. I got a chance to interview different people,
from all over the country, marathoners,
doctors, triathletes, project managers,
just people from different walks of life. And it became in handy when I it's
in fact, okay. This is I don't wanna just do running. I'm I
was always fascinated with entrepreneurship and business,
marketing, management, leadership. Those are topics that,
that that that really get me going. I remember saying to,
someone, Like, we don't wanna hear about all that. You know, we just wanna have
fun. And I'm like, I don't I'm not a court jester. Like, I'm not just
here. Entertainment is part of of anything that you're gonna be
doing. But that's not this is what interests me. And so I'm gonna
go with what interests me, not just to I'm just here to be, you know,
making Skits and just funny stuff just to amuse you.
Like, no. There's stuff that I'm interested in, and
it may not get enough. In my night, I was getting, like, a lot of
views and clicks initially. I found, like, during, like, the
the presidential election or and then during The
riots. I that footage was was,
like, tens of thousands of views. And, like but but
that's not what That's not where my heart is. You know what I
mean? So you have to do I have to do what I feel I've
called led to do rather than just doing what what's
gonna get, what's gonna get views. Mhmm.
Yeah. I agree with that. So still a lot of
questions I wanna ask you, but we're kinda coming to the end of our time.
So I want to give you a chance to, kinda talk about the things that
you do and the things that you're offering. I know you got a book out
there that you can download called Mind Your Own Business, A Quest for Hidden
Gems. You also have a podcast launch checklist that people can download.
What are some of the things that you're, you know, excited about going forward or
some some things that you could tell people about? The the coaching program for
young people, It's it's more than just teaching them,
you know, about taking them through the history of
podcasting And then getting them to to share their stories,
tell stories. So there's narrative podcast. When I think of a podcast, I think
of, you think think of an iceberg, and the tip I think
we're just scratching the tip of the surface with the
interviews. There's so many different types of, shows that could
be produced, and there's there's nothing
new under the sun. Right? So I'm reaching Because I wanted to
Wrong. So you think of these types of shows. Right? So you
had radio shows. But what's a a radio show? It's
it's audio. It's a show, but it's it's audio. And this is what they
this is how they used to do, shows. So I I
really believe that There are there are so many different types of
podcasts. When people think of podcasts, they necessarily think of
interviews. 2 people, 2 guys, a a group of people sitting down having
a conversation and some banter, some laughter, and that's
a show. But you also have you could have a a radio quiz
show. There's so many different types of shows that you could
do that that you can create. So I think that's it. That's that's
part of of of what I'm I'm interested in doing for young people. And
not just young people, it's it's storytelling and it's
storytelling if you're you're selling a product. If it is storytelling, if
you're selling a a a book, you're you're teaching a class or
helping people, how do I how do I present my story? You'd be surprised how
many people are are afraid of speaking in public.
Mhmm. Right? They they they freeze up. You you stick the camera in front of
them, and then it's like, oh, oh, no. I didn't you know, I don't they
Overthinking stuff, they they they change. They don't you listen you
edit podcasts and like, you know, a lot of filler
how do I how do I stop that? How do I deliver a clear
message so that someone can follow my train of thought And get to
oh, wow. I see what you're saying. You know, for a while,
you just were talking to people's heads. You think I tell them
more facts and like that. People don't care about facts. They have
a feeling about something. And in their heart, they just you know
what? This is why Donald Trump won
the election, because you have a lot of people who who are talking
to people's heads. Right. He was talking to pea he tapped
into people's emotions and their feelings, and they felt as
though, you know, They were being heard and seen. And
so when you do that, you see what the result is. And people still feel,
I'm a tell you more facts about my product, and There's nobody cares about any
of that, man. They don't care about any of this. So how do you get
people to share to to tell their stories in a compelling
way To whether it's selling a product or to just tell a
story, to sell the ideas. I wanna get my boss to,
it is something that I've been thinking about, and and I wanna be how do
I sell my idea to my leader? How do I how do I do this?
In a way that that becomes, you know, where they say
yes, or somebody's writing a check because they believe in your vision and
they believe in you. Yeah. And, also just
kinda sums up nicely with something you said earlier about people buying from
people and and you working with people that you like and wanna work with. Like,
people don't buy based off of stats or, you know, specifications.
They buy based off of especially nowadays, like, who the company is and who
you are as a person. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's a that's a great
point to, to kinda end on. And, thank you so much
for sharing all of your wisdom and your story with us today. Appreciate having
you on here. And, hopefully, maybe we can have you back in some
point and, talk more about all the things that you do. I appreciate
it, man. Thanks for having me, Gino. Thanks for tuning
in and listening to working towards our purpose. If you like
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