being emotionally aware of ourselves
and other people as well
it's about teaching them about the world
it's about not putting them in front of a TV
or an iPad or a screen
and letting them learn about the world that way
it's about actually showing them the world
welcome back to Raising Men
my guest today is Simon Rennie
Simon is the founder and clinical lead at Mindful Men
and the host of the Mindful Men Podcast
a podcast about using mindfulness to cultivate a
more meaningful existence Simon
thank you so much for being here
Sean thanks so much for having me
I'm really looking forward to having a good chat
now so do me a favor
tell me about mindfulness
and what is the impact on parents and sons
oh fantastic question
so mindfulness
I guess means different things to different people
but for me it means conscious awareness
so being really conscious about what we're doing
bringing the subconscious to the conscious
being mindful being present um
and particularly useful for parents
who might be struggling with
being on the same planet as their kids
in the moment and
you know thinking about work
thinking about study
or thinking about whatever else has to happen
um so
mindfulness enables us to be more present parents
as well so that's in a nutshell what it means to me
I love that definition it's
it it
it it feels very actionable
I love I'm really looking forward to digging into it
now I know from understanding your background
I understand that there is a lot of struggle
in your history and
you know struggles come they
they get imposed on us externally
and that creates a feedback loop where
where you know
we just kind of go through it internally as well
and we cause our own struggles to some degree
can you take us back to the season
where you realized that something needed to change
in your life and what happened with that
oh
so much so many seasons in between um
to take it back a little bit and rain me in
if you need me cause I'll
I'll go on and on and on about this by all means
essentially when I was eight years old
I developed obsessive compulsive disorder um
which remained undiagnosed for 20 years
and along the way
developed depression and generalized anxiety as well
but again remained undiagnosed
and for many years I drank alcohol to
to cope and to manage true um
but it was around 2,012 when my
my now wife encouraged me to go and get
support for my mental health
and for a couple years
I kind of deflected and pushed it back on her saying
well I don't have an issue if
if you've got an issue
maybe you should go and talk about it um
but it took about two years for her to
to keep pressing that button
and then me realizing that I need to go get help
so I did I went to my GP
and then I went to see a psychologist
and started the mental health treatment that I needed
but I expected a magic fix
I expected to go in do a couple of sessions
come out and be healed and that didn't happen
so fast forward to 2020
I'm not sure if you remember what happened in 2020
but we had the seal of Covid
ha ha
we had this thing called Covid
I was working from home cause we were locked down
we had 2 kids under 3
so my wife was home with the kids um
I was still drinking uh
my mental health was off the rocket
and I essentially burnt out
so I was in a really high stress work environment
I was studying a master's degree at the same time
I had too many things on my plate and through burnout
this is where I discovered mindfulness
through my healing journey
and it really put a lot of things into perspective
um but it wasn't just about mindfulness
it was about connecting in
with what's called a lived experience therapist
so someone who had an experience of burnout
and was willing to share their experience of burnout
and for the first time in my therapy journey
it felt like I was being seen and heard
and understood properly for the first time
cause I've been to all these different therapists
but it felt like there was always a disconnect
yeah and so when I got this connection
both through the therapist and my GP
actually my GP shared about his burnout story too
I started to realise ah there's some
you know other people out there that feel like me and
and have experienced similar to me
and we're speaking the same language
and through therapy found mindfulness
and this ability to
come back to the present and be present
cause that's what I really needed when I was burnt out
I was on a different planet uh
the lights were on but nobody was home um
and that would be with work
that would be with my kids and my wife
and I didn't like that um
so this is to 2020 and
and so five years on
really starting to work on the mindfulness piece
but also recovery from a proactive perspective
rather than a reactive perspective
you know I'm guessing
that if your experience is anything like mine in
in things like this
you kick yourself for how much time you spent in denial
about what you could do about your situation and
and like you wasted all those years
why is talking about mental health
and seeking out mental health
such a struggle for so many men
I I experience it too
and I really can't even access why
I'm glad you asked that question
cause it's probably where the story starts actually
so I'm on the Sunshine Coast in Queensland
but I grew up in a place called Adelaide
in South Australia so different state
different part of Australia
isn't that and in the 30 minute
daylight savings time
I was 30 minutes yeah
at the moment and then on the east coast
we've got an hour
depending on if you're in Melbourne or Sydney or
or Hobart
so we're a bit of a odd country in terms of daylight
safe it's amazing
it's amazing but I grew up in Adelaide alright
I didn't mean to derail you no
yeah you're right
um I'm all about derails and
and tangents so that's all good
um I grew up in the northern suburbs of Adelaide
which is very working class
it's it's lower socio economic
um my dad worked at the council
my mum worked as a cleaner
we weren't rich by any means
and in the 80s and 90s which is when I grew up
we didn't talk about mental health
in fact men
to be a boy and to be a man
was to be strong and tough
and suck it up and bottle it down
and all those types of things and
and that's how we dealt with emotions
yeah now the
the flip side of that is that boys were
I guess allowed to show anger
and many that's the case for many boys
it was socially acceptable for a boy to show anger
they still get in trouble
wow yeah
but it was more socially acceptable than to say
sit there and cry about what's going on
it's sad so true
and so I embodied that
I didn't have any positive male role models
including my father and
and sports coaches and teachers and friends
who would go into the emotional side of things
and so I learnt just like many boys and many men today
and over the generations as well
that to be a boy and to be a man was to suck it up
yeah and so when I turned 8 and I developed OCD
I didn't have the words to express or
or the knowledge of how to express what was happening
internally for me
so it stayed a silent struggle
and there was a little bit of shame
a little bit of guilt about feeling different as well
but I persevered and we kept going with it
now this really ramped up around 13
when mum and dad separated
so I me and my little brother
we moved out with mum
and my two oldest brothers stayed with dad
and this broke the family dynamic as well
but I felt all of a sudden
like there needed to be a man of the house
and that man was me as a 13 year old
wow what a burden
and and that's what the
that's what life was like in
in that period of time there was a man of the house
all my friends there was a man of the house
whether it was a father
whether it was an uncle staying with them
whether it was a grandparent
true but that was me as a 13 year old
and this is where my mental health really declined
because my obsessive compulsive disorder ramped up
my depression ramped up my anxiety ramped up
but I didn't know how to talk about it
and so I just kept plugging away
trying to live day to day
and then I eventually found alcohol around 15
and alcohol helped to slow my brain
and slow the emotions and
and feel normal if that makes sense
it does and it just kept getting bottled and buried
and buried and buried
and this is what I see time in and time out in
in the clinic work that I do now as a therapist is this
this constant bottling up of emotions
and this inability to share and express
in a healthy way in fact
one of the most common questions I get
when we have someone call the clinic is Simon
we're looking for a positive
male role model for my 19 year old son
or my 18 year old son
um and so that's the work that we go on is
is trying to show them that yes
you can talk about this stuff
and you're not gonna be seen as weak or
or anything like that
it's actually a strong thing to talk about
your mental health
but when we go back to why men are like this
and why boys are like this is
is this concept called
social constructions of masculinity
so we're socially constructed to feel
and be a certain way based on our environment
and based on time as well
so I often talk about the 80s and 90s
because that was a different time to 2,025
you know we're talking about mental health now
whereas we didn't do that in the 80s and 90s
and with the work that I do with older men in my clinic
the 70s 60s
50s 40s
they didn't talk about mental health right
we do a lot of work with veterans
for example and the older veterans
so I'm talking World War 2
um even Vietnam
they're more reluctant to talk about mental health than
say veterans who have been to Afghanistan or Iraq
or anything like that because it's just so different
it's a different time period
and it's still seen as a weakness
particularly for men
yeah I
I definitely it's almost like it's a
it's a self imposed stigma that
that we impose it on ourselves
we feel shame about not being perfect
but if you're if you don't
if you're not able to recognize your own imperfections
then you have no way of eliminating them
that's right and that's where mindfulness is
actually plays a really good part is
is recognizing and being aware
and self aware of what's going on inside of us
and that's why I love
that mindfulness and therapy can help
dismantle that kind of
outdated model of masculinity and and
and then what do you replace it with
well I guess new concepts of masculinity
so masculinity in itself isn't a bad thing
but often what's betrayed is that it is a bad thing
because we talk
usually talk about it within the concepts of patriarchy
or um
toxic masculinity or family and domestic violence
or even suicide as well
and so when we talk about it
within those contexts it can be a negative tone
it can be a negative
reflection of what it means to be a boy and a man
but there is something called healthy masculinity
and this is what we work on in the clinics is
is around
looking back over how we learnt to be a boy and a man
in fact I did that session yesterday with a client
what did it mean to be a boy and a man
growing up for him wherever he grew up
and within the time period that he grew up as well
and then reflecting on
what does it mean to be a dad now
and what does it mean to be a boy for his sons
in the work that we've been doing as well
so we look back in a
in a way that is critically reflective
and we look back at why we were the way we were and the
the influences around us
and then we look at the present
how are we showing up today
and then we look forward to the future
as how do we wanna show up
how do we want our boys particularly
and our daughters to be in their
when they're adults how do we make them
or help them and support them to be good humans
and it starts with us
it starts with us recognizing how we are
and then growing from there
you've talked a lot about
about your work with men what is one misconception
that you see that men have about seeking help
a misconception is that they don't have the ability
to seek help we all have the ability
yeah it's just about knowing when's the right time
and finding the right support as well
like I'd been in and out of therapy
for the better part of 10 years
and been to different therapists
but I never really felt connected
to a lot of the therapists
so it felt like a chore
rather than something that was self development
and something that I could achieve success through
yeah um
so it's about yeah
like and like
so many therapists
who don't share an element of themselves
it feels like they're just reading from a book
to help you yeah
which is what
what I like to do because I've lived through
you know better
half of the three decades of mental health struggle
is bringing in that lived experience
so once we can do that we can foster a
a a stronger connection with men
because they can recognize that
they're not the only person in the room
who's had struggle
and they can see me doing the work
and I always say I'm a therapist in therapy
and that the work that we do in our sessions
is the work that I do on myself
so it works I know it works
but I also recognize that what works for me
doesn't necessarily work for them
so it's all about showing them the way
showing men the way and going
this is a pathway I've taken
it might be similar to yours
it might be different but we'll work together as a team
men like to work as a team
and we'll come up with solutions together
we'll figure out what works for you
and so this misconception that men can't do it
is really wrong because actually
once they come in you can't shut them up
they just wanna talk talk and talk and talk
yeah but so that feel on and that rock around your home
I yeah
I I
I can add you know
the metaphor that comes to mind for that for me is
it's like finding a wreck
an exercise that resonates with you
and it's like you you really wanna be doing
go to the gym and be doing weights
but then you end up in a yoga class and you're
you're frustrated and well
that's exercise right
and then and then you go to a Pilates class
and it's a different thing
and then you join a running group and it's just not a
it's not the fit it's not what you're looking for
and then you finally get to the gym
and you have a trainer who works out himself
and he pushes rates too and you're like yes
this is what I've been looking for
and there's nothing wrong with those other modalities
there's nothing wrong with yoga and Pilates and running
but it's not right for me
100% that reminded me of high school right
like so I was very athletic
did a lot of sports
there was one sport that I absolutely hated
and that was netball
and so we used
I used to go to the courts and shoot hoops
and play basketball
and I liked it because it was running around right
but netball when you get the ball
you've got to stop and I felt really restricted there
yeah like I felt like I had to move like I
it was it was unnatural for me not to move cause I
it wasn't just basketball
I played Australian rules footy
I played soccer I did athletics
I was always on the move right
and it's the same like it was just the rings
anytime we were touching the ball
you're the target you need to you need to get going
that's right and so I had to move
and so it's about finding the right support for you
so sometimes that's therapy
but sometimes a lot of the case is actually self care
it's about what exercise are you doing
or what food are you eating
or how are you sleeping or
you know we talk about the addiction stuff
so drinking drugs
gambling porn addiction
all those types of things
how do we find balance in everything
so that everything is working together
as opposed to apart
it's a feedback mechanism
isn't it because as
as your your kind of health declines
you seek out more of those self medicating activities
which cause your health decline even more
which causes you to seek them out even more and
and you just keep spiraling down
don't you
well that's a dopamine hit right
so we do things that
like drinking for me felt good initially
and it was for fun yeah
um but over time
I was getting those dopamine hits
but then the more and more I drank
the more and more I needed to get that same hit right
and so it's the same with all sorts of addictions is
is the more we do it the
the more we need to do it
in order to find that same level of satisfaction
but we can get through those things
through something like therapy
or even talking about it or even just re
evaluating our values and our goals in life
we can actually do it without a therapist
um it's just about mindset
how do we get into the right mindset
and do things for the right reasons
and do things in a sustainable way as well
not throwing everything at it all at once
yeah
so
let's connect this to the mission of raising powerful
capable men
what does being a mindful parent mean to you
well it's
I think a lot of patience
absolutely
so I've got an eight year old
I've got a five year old
so being very and I also coach under eight soccer
so you can imagine ten
eight year olds running around trying to
trying to herd cats on a tin roof basically um
it's about being patient
it's about being present as well
so focusing on our kids rather than on our work
or what we have to do tomorrow
or whatever else is going on
and I think for the modern day father
particularly is about being emotionally aware
and it's emotionally aware of ourselves
how are we going how are we showing up
but also supporting our kids to be emotionally aware
and understand that it's okay to be
not okay
and it's actually a safe thing for them to come to us
and talk about their emotions
because what often happens in therapy is
the guys that come in particularly the dads
they want to be anything but a version of their dad
yeah so it's about supporting parents
both mums and dads but particularly dads to
to have that emotional awareness
to have that awareness of where they've come from
where they are where they wanna be
and being as present and patient as possible
I imagine that even if you yourself had an amazing dad
there's still some amount of that departure
that is necessary
because the world is so different than it was
when we were children
and so in order to give our
our sons the skills that they're gonna need to
be powerful in the world that they're gonna grow up in
it can't be the same old playbook
can it
well it can't be
cause you just look at the world
the way the world's going yeah
I had this um
when we when our kids went to started school um
the principal sat down with all the new parents
and was talking about career pathways
for example and I remember my dad
he had two career pathways
he was a bricklayer initially
and then he went to the council and mum was a cleaner
and then she became an enrolled nurse over time
and I've looked at my career
and I've had probably about 10 different jobs yeah
and I'm only you know 42 yeah
but the principal sat down and he said
your children
will have up to 20+ careers in their lifetime
and that's not necessarily a bad thing
it's just a a
a reflection of the time technology is advancing
we're doing things differently
there's gonna be new industries that grow
there's gonna be old industries that die out
through technology and so
it's about our ability to adapt and be adaptable
and be accepting of of adaptation as well
not holding on to those old playbooks
now what often happens is
we revert back to how our parents parented us often
so my dad was a yeller
for example and so sometimes when I'm disre regulated
I might yell at my kids
but I consciously
am aware that that's not the dad that I wanna be
so I've gone back to the old playbook
because it's ingrained in me
but then I've also turned the page to the new playbook
and going OK
this is what I've got to work on next time
and so
now we're talking about being an imperfect parent
and being OK with that
because we can't get it right all the time
as long as we're getting it right most of the time
then we're doing alright yeah
and it actually gives you an opportunity to apologize
to your son and say
listen man
that's not the way I need to be acting
I'm really sorry and that's
that's modeling the right behavior
well how many of our
our parents did that right
it it
it wasn't part of the equation back then
it wasn't so
being able to rebuild bridges
or mend bridges is a really important part
and that's
that's emotional awareness that's being present
it's recognizing that we're
we're not perfect and it's mending the relationship
because the last thing I want as a dad is my
my son and my daughter to grow up resenting me
because I wasn't there and I wasn't emotionally aware
and that's a constant fear that I have
you know knowing where I've come from
knowing the work that I do
and hearing the stories that I hear every single day
but it's not something that's gonna hold me back
it's gonna be something that fuels
me to be the best dad that I can be
and the best partner I can be to my wife too
yeah
yeah again
that's going back to that feedback thing
that's a virtuous feedback
that's a virtuous feedback loop
you do those things you get rewarded for it
your life is easier it
it feels like you're closer
more connected you're more of a man that
that you wanna be and so
that causes you to engage with more healthy activities
and think about things more
in a more helpful way
yeah absolutely
and I think
when we talk about things like anxiety and depression
for example
we're often stuck in a negative feedback loop
whether it's thinking too much about the future
so that's that hyper arousal state
that's that anxiety state
or thinking too much about the past
that's that hypo arousal state
and that can get stuck and when
that's when we start feeling like we're failing
as parents or as
or as men as well so
it's about recognizing those emotions
when they come up
and recognizing how do we get through that
so that we can be more present with ourselves
but also our families as well
and and it's doing the things like
self care that we talked about
but it's also doing the things that make us feel good
we're we're too
I think focused on the
you know the hustle these days in the 24 7
world that we live in and there's not enough downtime
where we can relax and rest recuperate um
and be really present in the moment
now the feedback loop as well
it reinforces different behaviours
so if we're doing negative things
it's gonna reinforce that as
as a coping mechanism
so we're gonna be stuck in that negative way
but if we can flip the script
and think a bit more positively
and that's really hard
I recognize that it can be hard in the modern world um
we can turn things around
and we can come out of things and grow
and be better dads as
as we do it as well
you know there's I I
I what you're saying really resonates with me because I
I feel like I have to be doing something
or else I'm dropping the ball
I'm I'm not being the
the parent I need to be I'm not being the
the worker I need to be I'm not
I'm not succeeding and if I'm ever sitting idle
it doesn't feel right and that's unhealthy
isn't it that's
that's what you're describing as part of the thing
I need to be able to unplug
I need to be able to be present with my kids
I need to be able to to
to disconnect and just ride in the right groove
don't I
yeah absolutely
I was talking to her dad yesterday in
in the clinic and we were talking about his REM
his memories of his father
and it was to provide and so
when we link that in with men in general
and the patriarchy in patriarchal society
it's men are providers
yes and so
if we're sitting idle and not providing
not providing whether it's financially
whether it's security whether it's whatever
we feel like we're not living up to this notion of
what it means to be a
a man and a and a leader as well
but the rest component is really important
because back when our parents were
were parents well
you know they're still parents
I guess but back a few
few generations ago yeah
yeah they weren't
they were 9 to 5 man
they weren't they weren't 24 7 like we are today
and they came home and work with it
they came home after work
and we came home when the lights came on
on on the street lamps and so forth
and we were together and on the weekends
we didn't do a huge amount of things
just to keep ourselves entertained
we we
we learnt how to entertain
entertain ourselves if we're bored
you know and
and so it's a
it's a very different world that we live in
so I think a lot of parents these days
are trying to learn to disconnect
yeah and be more connected with their families
through the disconnection of work
particularly because of that hustle and
and Covid was a bit of a a negative
part of this because it during covid
everyone thought they need to get side hustles
and side hustles
and this is where the podcast world exploded really
that became a side hustle
absolutely and so
it's just about learning to disconnect
but be connected at the same time
it's it's a real struggle
um but we can provide in
in that moment when we are disconnected
we're providing emotional security
we're providing great fatherhood and and
and motherhood and we're providing fun
yeah and
and modeling these are
these are the things yeah
and these are the things that our kids want
yeah I always
I think since becoming a father
what it has been really clear to me
the myriad of tensions that we experience
and that tension between wanting to be a provider
and not wanting to work all the time
or not you
knowing that working all the time
isn't the way to be the best provider
because providing money isn't the only thing
you're supposed to be providing
you're supposed to be providing safety
you're supposed to be providing comfort
you're supposed to be providing
you know walled garden
so to speak
and there's a tension between those two things
um I
you know
there there's a saying that goes
nobody ever wished
that they spent more time in the office
on their deathbed and I think that that's true
but it's also not true
because there are people who go to their deathbed
wishing that
they had provided better for their families
and and so again it
it goes back to that tension
you need to find the right mix
in order to get the best balance
of that
and that is that's the difficulty
and I feel like that's the thing
that mindfulness can really help cultivate
in ourselves
absolutely
I often talk about control in sessions with my clients
it's when we feel like
maybe our mental health has got out of control
and physical health as well
because it's one and the same
we try to control it by doing certain things
so for me
it was drinking for 25 years
I tried to control my mental illness with drinking
yeah and that wasn't necessarily healthy
sure um
and there was also a very big cultural element here
as well it's very acceptable to drink in Australia
we're big drinkers right
yeah
but I often say in order to regain control
we have to let go of control
and so we can this is us recognizing that
stuff in our life is happening
things that we can control
but also things that we can't control
like maybe we do need to go and work a job
or two jobs or three jobs
or whatever we do but
there's certain things in our life that we can control
and a lot of that in the parenting space is
is being present being mindful
being connected when we have
even if it's five minutes
a day if we're in and out of the door
because we're providing for our family
if we're providing that five minutes a day
where our kids see us doing what we're doing
with a purpose and with values and
and we're not just you know
ignoring them we're actually connecting in with them
as much as we can
then they learn that they see that and that's help
what helps them to grow as well
but one of the other things that we learn in and
and I teach in
in my sessions is about living by our values
so when we are looking back on our deathbed
and we can look at our lives and reflect
did I achieve what I want to achieve
if we can live most of our life
according to a good set of values
and we yeah
that's what we can impart to our kids
then we can as
ultimately
fall asleep knowing that we've done our best
and yeah I think that's right
and at least you did it on purpose right
whatever you did
you did it intentionally and with purpose
and yeah you should feel good about that right
as opposed to you don't want to look back and think man
all that stuff happened by accident
and even if it was good
all that stuff happened by accident here
so so tell me this
when and how
do we start to cultivate mindfulness in our sons
hmm
from day 1 which is really hard
so when we think about parenting
it's often the dad goes to work
mum stays home yeah
so one option is to become a stay at home dad
hmm
and be really present right
so this is that connection piece
this is about connecting and
and actually challenging social norms
cause this is a social norm thing right
the dad goes to work the mum stays home
so that's one element I tried it for a little bit
but I really struggled with it
so we had to reverse that role
my wife reminded me that of that yesterday actually
but it's it's about connection
and it's about being there and being present
now
mindfulness is not something you'd go to your kids to
and say let's be mindful because they probably like
what are you talking about exactly
but it's through actions
it's through how we display living by values
it's about you know um
being emotionally aware of ourselves
and other people as well
it's about teaching them about the world
it's about not putting them in front of a TV or an iPad
or a screen
and letting them learn about the world that way
it's about actually showing them the world
it's about going camping it's about fishing
it's about doing the things that make us feel good
but also slow down time at the same time
because we only have infinite number of well
we don't have an infinite
we only have a certain number of Christmases
with our families
ultimately those Christmases will run out
that is such a powerful powerful framing
that these activities are ways of slowing down time
in a really pleasurable way
and we really do we have
it's the one way we have
of extending this resource that is so limited
it's the one thing that we can't ever get back
but we can slow it down
that's such a powerful sentiment
I love it
how can we begin right now
what can I do when I get off this
this this call to help raise my son in a way with
with strength and softness and
and being mindful and and
and give me
give me one tactical thing that I could go do right now
I think it's working on ourselves as dads
we gotta start here
within ourselves before we can even help somebody else
it's like the plane that's falling out of the sky
you gotta put your own oxygen mask on first
before you help anyone else
because otherwise you both gonna perish
and so I think it's reflecting on how we're going today
how we really going like
are we showing up in a way that we wanna show up
are we being the best dad that we can be
and if not
that's OK we can turn things around
and so what I do is I I liken it to the car tune up
a lot of guys
like cars or can kind of identify with a car
so you take your car to the mechanic once a year
it gets service and then it's back on the road
so our bodies are like the car body
and our minds are like
the electronics that make everything work
so if we can tune that up yearly
whether it's through a
just even connecting with a GP or a therapist
you know for a few sessions a year
just to make sure that you're
you're able to stay on the road
and that goes a long way to your better health
but then also you
being able to be more present
and mindful with your kids
as well because if you're doing the work on you
then you can see it in others
and you can help others along their journeys too
are there are there pitfalls or
or drawbacks that we should watch out for
when trying to do this
well
I think it's you can it's bringing up old traumas maybe
yeah maybe old pains and having to work through them
but that's okay that's part of the process
it's it's not about ignoring the past
is about acknowledging it and
and identifying what you can learn from the past
and this is where therapist go well
you know tell me about your childhood
there's a reason for that
because they're looking at what happened
how were you formed
where where did your beliefs come from
and then how do we retune them
so that they serve you in 2025 and beyond
yeah and I can imagine that that is
especially if you haven't grown up with the skills
to deal with those kinds of strong emotions
it's all the more difficult to
to process all of that isn't it
well that's right
how can you get somewhere if you don't have a map yeah
and this is it so this is therapy or a GP session
or even just talking with a friend
or family member that you trust and respect yeah
these are the people that can give you the map
to get where you are
and maybe give yourself a little bit of Grace about
you know this everybody
everybody has this and it's good
it's okay I'd say a lot of Grace
and what one of the concepts
that I've Learned through mindfulness is wabi sabi
so it's the beauty in imperfection
OK yeah
I love I'm not gonna get it perfect every day
and my clients aren't gonna get it perfect every day
but as long as they're learning and moving forward
one step at a time
eventually they'll get to where they need to go
so how do people learn more about mindful men and
and get involved and what can what
what can we do to to help bolster your program
well I think it's about we've got the podcast
as you mentioned earlier got the mindful men podcast
um I did that for about two and a half years before I
mindfully
had to disconnect from that for a little while
so I'm on a bit of a hiatus
but there's lots of different
conversations in there around men masculinity
fatherhood mental health as well
so check that out check out your podcast
go through some of the old episodes as well
keep in tune with those um
if you're in Australia we do therapy in Australia
so I'm an Australian therapist
um so you can connect in that
with us that way through our website
um check out our socials
I'm very active on socials and just putting out content
trying to inspire men to just recognise
certain things in their lives
so for example um
October in Australia is
is Mental Health Awareness Month in Australia
so I'm doing a lot of mental health awareness
content on there so get involved in that
have a chat in that and also
you can join our Mindful Men Community Facebook group
which is for free I do a weekly uh
mindfulness tip on a Tuesday
and then I do a Thursday check in video
so you can jump onto that um
learn a bit more about mindfulness
and become part of a bigger community
I love that alright
I love to finish up these conversations
by putting you on the spot
and asking for one principle
I'd like
just think of one principle that comes to mind
that
I should adopt in my life to make myself more mindful
or stronger or better or
or or anything at all give me one principle
might be something that
that you try to live yourself or
or something you aspire to or anything like that
what is one principle
that you think that people should really look into
and maybe adopt
I think for men particularly
it's it's identifying what your core values are
and living by them
once you know this and there's you
you only want five or six not too many
I've got a few guys that like 10+
but sure
five or six core values that you can live by everyday
cause this helps with things like motivation
when you're feeling unmotivated
it helps with reflection
if something bad's happened and you
and you wanna reflect why that happened
it helps with us
identifying why we feel certain emotions
as well
but it's also helps us to be the best parents and
and partners we can be
and instill values on our children
now everybody's values are different
and it's also about recognizing that as well
so what we
I value is gonna be different to what you value
and the same with our kids
so really look into what are your values
and how can you live by them everyday
I think that is a fantastic principle
I appreciate thank you for sharing that Simon
once again
thank you so much for joining us on Raising Men
I'll tell you
it has been an absolute pleasure to get to know you
I know that I have personally
gotten tremendous value from this conversation
I hope our listeners have as well
I really appreciate it thanks Sean
thanks for having me thanks again
Simon is the founder and clinical lead at Mindful Men
he joins us from the Sunshine Coast
just north of Brisbane in Australia
thanks again Simon