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Hi, I'm Kevin

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Devine and this is the Prosource podcast.

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In each episode,
we'll be talking to industry experts,

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including trade professionals, suppliers
and our showroom staff,

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about a variety of topics
within home and commercial projects.

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Enjoy.

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Well,
welcome again to the Prosource podcast.

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In this edition, we're joined
by Kevin Jones of Premier Homes.

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Kevin,
thanks for joining us. Glad to be here.

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This is everyone's dream come true.

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Two Kevin's on one podcast.

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I'm not sure that's the case,
but we'll give them a best shot.

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Dream, Nightmare.

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You know, it's all terminology.

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So let's start with this.

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Let's talk a little bit about tell us
about yourself and about Premier Homes.

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Premier Homes we’re a small custom
homebuilder in the Metro East .

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We don't build in volume particularly,
but more of the higher end custom homes.

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So take an individual from

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with no plan and lead them
through the entire design process.

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Or sometimes

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someone may

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approach us with their own plans
and then we will execute that for them.

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Okay. And by Metro East,
we should probably qualify.

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We're talking Saint Louis, Missouri,

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because for all I know,
we have a global audience

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and they make sure that everyone
on all hemispheres understand.

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For us,

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the Metro East is just the Illinois side
across the river from Saint Louis.

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So and I'm primarily in Edwardsville
community on the on the east side.

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Okay, So today's topic is all about
cabinets across the home.

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And so we're talking about of it's
not just for the kitchen and we're talking

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about some of the different storage
and organization features of it.

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What are some of the most common reasons
why homeowners are replacing

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cabinets in the home?

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And when that happens,
what advice do you tend to offer them?

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Well, I think it's really mainly
two reasons to either

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upgrade what they have currently
or update what they have.

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So I do some remodeling.

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I do more new construction,

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but the remodeling I tend to do
is more of the larger scale.

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So a complete kitchen, sometimes an entire
gut of a house, that type of thing.

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So I would say
we're seeing some of the people

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that are particularly in
that environment are in now.

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Our interest rates have kind of
jumped up on us pretty quickly.

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You've got people
that may have been interested

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in purchasing a new home
or moving to another home of some type.

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Interest rates have kind of trapped
some of those people

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because of the low mortgage rates
that they have in hand,

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as opposed to going out
and assuming that higher interest rates.

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So they are more likely
to try to take the existing home

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and update or upgrade that people
that would have normally upgraded.

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They've been in the home for a few years,
a starter home possibly.

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And now that they're able to
maybe take those builder grade cabinets

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and that type of thing and upgrade

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to something a little nicer,
a little nicer countertops and kind of

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just update
and upgrade the entire home that way.

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So this may actually be a question
on my list, but I'm going to go in address

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and just being fair to you,
you are a builder and custom home builder.

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So you're right,
there's not a whole lot of remodeling.

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There is some,
but not a lot in your world.

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We talk,
we use that term builder great cabinets.

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But really what we're talking there is
sort of like the maybe the entry level.

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But I would assume that
within the selection that you offer,

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you're already offering some some upgrades
within that you're

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looking at that whole scope
for the multiple design concepts

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that people may have, The
the homes that we build and that

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and the remodeling
we do is still typically an upper end

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and no type of cabinet
that we're putting in those homes.

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So I might have used the wrong terminology
in terms of builder grade.

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It's usually a term
people are used to use in our industry,

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you know, quite a bit
and probably too often.

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But again, it's like you said, an entry
level home where it's more affordable.

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It fits their budget at the time,

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but now they've been in the home
ten, 15, 20 years.

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They're obviously in a better

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financial position, hopefully,
and they're able to take

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some of that money
and reinvest in their home.

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I do think sometimes
it gets sort of a negative connotation

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when people say builder, great,

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but that's covering a big spectrum because
there's a lot of different builders

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that are out there.

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And I say that, yeah,

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we hear it all the time
and talking to customers

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and you know, obviously
we compete with other builders

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and there's just so much difference
in how each of us approach it

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and the type of materials and workmanship
and quality that goes into a home.

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So it can vary across
a pretty wide spectrum, of course, right?

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When we're looking at the choices
of cabinets that people make,

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do trends impact those cabinet choices,
either in both what you offer

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and what people select?

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So we're talking style,
color, wood type is

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are people being driven more toward trends

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when they pick the chemistry offer,
or is it just simply personal choice?

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Yes and yes.

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Okay.

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Because trends are going to generate
activity or interest.

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And I think that may draw people
into the thought process of

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whether they want to do a remodel
or change their cabinets or update

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their kitchen.

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But still, it's got

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I think there's an override factor
for the personal choice

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and personal likes and dislikes,
whether that's, you know,

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just colors or style or whatever
it may be.

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But I certainly encourage people
not to get caught up in just the trends.

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But it's kind of like
we're going to a new car.

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You know, you're driving a car
for four or five years

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and you see the new ones with all the nice

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bells and whistles,
you know, gets the juices flowing.

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You start thinking about,
you know, you can upgrade yours as well.

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So it's kind of the same thing, I think.

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Take it outside of the kitchen.

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Yeah.

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Everyone always thinks when we think
cabinets, we think kitchen cabinets,

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but cabinets
are significantly more versatile

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that there probably isn't a room
in the house that they can't go into.

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So when you're building the homes,
designing the homes,

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how often are homeowners looking to add
cabinets in rooms outside of the kitchen

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and if so, what rooms
tend to be next on the list?

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When you look outside the kitchen, I think
it comes down to budget, first of all.

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So what can they afford to do?

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What needs to be done the most?

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So kitchens are pretty typical. Right?

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Next in line is probably the bathrooms,
you know.

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So and that's not a huge undertaking
in terms

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of just the cabinet side of things,
as long as they're not changing,

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you know, the layout, so forth.

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But that's probably next on the list.

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I would say, you
know, laundries are an easy one.

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Obviously, mud rooms,
that's people are like the locker concept

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that still hasn't gone away.

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That's
still pretty attractive to most people.

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So we're finding places or niches
where we can build

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in some additional storage
for things like that.

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And then there's always built ins.

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And most of that we see in the great room
or living room concept where they're

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trying to create some additional storage
of some type in the in the great room.

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So those are usually the areas
we see at most.

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Let's take it a little bit further.

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Are there other creative places
that you find?

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Sometimes homeowners begin
to lots of give a couple of examples.

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Kids rooms would obviously come to mind,

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but maybe also a little bit
just outside the walls, in the garages.

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Are you starting to see cabinets?

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Does that come up into the discussion?

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Not as much, but yes, occasionally again,

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it comes down to budget,
but particularly on a remodel anyway.

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But we don't see it as much in garages,
although most people will

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will go to the shelving or out
or something like that in the garages.

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But kids rooms possibly,
you know, a little study area

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desk area storage area for books
and that type of thing.

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That's we've we've done some of that.

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Probably one of the more things
that we haven't done a lot in the past,

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but it's come up more recently
Butler's pantry, which is kind

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of a nice idea and it makes a lot of sense
if you got the room for it

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and if you have a butler,
well, most of them don't,

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but I guess that's a terminology
that's got stuck with it.

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Yeah, that so
but around for a while. Yeah.

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And that's probably more a

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new construction again but still it's,
it's a concept that people like

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and I think it's driven a lot
by the open concept

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which hasn't gone away

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and I don't really see that changing
maybe a little bit, but

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it's still a pretty popular floor plan.

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So in the open concept,
you just usually don't

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have as much wall space
for cabinet storage alone.

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So we usually go with a big pantry
to kind of compensate for that.

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Butler's pantry is a nice area
where they can display, maybe hide

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some of their larger appliance type
things, countertop appliance type things

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that they can get out of the way and
create more room in the kitchen itself.

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Are there specific
specific storage features

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when it comes to cabinets that homeowners
are wanting more outside it?

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Just open the door.

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There's some shelves, we're talking
pull out drawers or even maybe more

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fancy options.

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And we did talk about the butler's pantry.

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But are other storage features
that you're finding

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homeowners are starting to look towards,
especially setting aside the budget.

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But just from a creative standpoint
that they're saying, hey, I'd like this.

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There seems to be a greater use of things
that we didn't have before, possibly

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least in my timeframe.

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I go back a little farther, but

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not that far behind you on that.

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So, well, you've got the air fryers
and those can be large

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and people are using toaster ovens.

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I mean, there's a lot of convenience type

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things that are utilized now
in the kitchen that maybe weren't used

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as much in the past,
which creates a need for larger storage.

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So which again, is where the Butler
Pantry really comes in. Nice.

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But not everybody can do that
or have the space for it.

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I think just organizational features
as much as anything.

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So pots and pans,
you know, they're bigger, they're heavier.

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So it takes a little more storage

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thought in terms
of how you're going to accommodate that.

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So utensils, the spice racks
and things like that.

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There's just like a lot of maybe K-Cup
drawers with other single serve curing.

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Absolutely.

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Once again, that's another item
that people are trying to hide.

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But a good, good mention that I didn't
bring up earlier is, you know, we do some

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coffee centers, you know, where they have
those an entire coffee center.

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yeah, yeah, yeah.

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A regular barista station.

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So what? Okay.

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Starbucks in the home, they you know,
they definitely it's a popular item.

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So if you could again make room for it
and it's something that that's out there.

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If you looked outside of the kitchen,
are there any type of little storage or

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organization features
that start to pop out in other rooms?

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I would say probably again,
the built ins in a great room.

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And that's that's really kind of depending
on the individual what their needs are.

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Some people want the cabinets for the door

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so they can hide the electronic components
or that type of thing.

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Other people may need space for display,
so whether it's bookshelves

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or floating shelves to display pictures
or artwork or that type of thing.

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So that's probably what we see
outside of the kitchen or bathrooms

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anyway, where we're seeing
a little more unique closets.

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It's it's
been done somewhat in the closet,

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which I think is a good idea

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because we can take some of the cabinet
storage and create the drawer space

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that can be utilized
in the closets as well

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and look a little nicer
than some of the other options.

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So this may just fit in with everything
you've just said, but are there

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creative ways to cabinets have been
incorporated into just the general design,

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not just of that room,
but maybe the house as a whole?

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I think

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cabinets
always influence the design of the house

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to some extent because it's it's
a very prevalent feature of the home.

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And again, in that open concept,
it's visible from all the living areas

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of the home where your guests will be.

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So we see oftentimes trying to carry
at least the the style of someone.

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If we're doing a more simpler home,
we call it transition and tell you

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a little bit more of a modern look,
I guess to it, cleaner lines and so forth.

232
00:10:50,583 --> 00:10:53,552
We that kind of influences,
or maybe it's in reverse,

233
00:10:53,552 --> 00:10:57,590
but that style carries
throughout the house colors as well.

234
00:10:57,590 --> 00:11:01,060
So if you've got stained cabinets
in the kitchen, oftentimes, obviously

235
00:11:01,060 --> 00:11:04,130
they have to complement the floors,
but we may carry that stain

236
00:11:04,130 --> 00:11:07,400
over to the staircase
or over to the mantel on the fireplace.

237
00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:09,902
So yeah, I think it all has to tie
together.

238
00:11:09,902 --> 00:11:11,037
It's kind of a chicken and the egg thing

239
00:11:11,037 --> 00:11:14,040
which influences which,
but it obviously plays a part.

240
00:11:14,173 --> 00:11:17,009
We talked a little bit
about Cabinets in the bathroom,

241
00:11:17,009 --> 00:11:19,812
so let's move there for a second.

242
00:11:19,912 --> 00:11:22,915
How are we seeing
cabinets being implemented in bathrooms?

243
00:11:23,082 --> 00:11:25,651
And I'd also like to look at
what are considerations

244
00:11:25,651 --> 00:11:28,254
as far as chemistry
when it comes to the vanity

245
00:11:28,254 --> 00:11:31,590
as opposed to just taking it
out of the box from the big box stores,

246
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:35,261
vanity versus something a little more
furniture, ask a little more custom,

247
00:11:35,261 --> 00:11:38,330
even with cabinets being used,
they're you're a little more limited.

248
00:11:38,330 --> 00:11:39,231
Obviously, in the bathroom.

249
00:11:39,231 --> 00:11:40,633
You don't have a lot of space typically,

250
00:11:40,633 --> 00:11:43,602
but people will get
a little more creative, I would say.

251
00:11:43,602 --> 00:11:45,204
And like the powder room again,

252
00:11:45,204 --> 00:11:47,373
because that's a guest area
that the guest is going to see.

253
00:11:47,373 --> 00:11:51,544
So a little nicer space there probably,
but we'll see furniture

254
00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:55,414
bases not directly related to cabinets,
but we know a lot of accidental

255
00:11:55,414 --> 00:11:59,585
lighting or toxic lighting
that may be generated by motion.

256
00:11:59,585 --> 00:12:00,186
So when

257
00:12:00,186 --> 00:12:02,388
you're up in the middle of the night
and you walk in the bathroom,

258
00:12:02,388 --> 00:12:04,790
the motion sensor
will kick all into the light.

259
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:06,859
So you can see your way
around the bathroom.

260
00:12:06,859 --> 00:12:08,160
So, you know, you're just showing off.

261
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,629
You know,
I don't have that. Well, you should at it.

262
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:13,766
I'm thinking so you can do that for you
for a see there.

263
00:12:13,933 --> 00:12:14,867
Phenomenal.

264
00:12:14,867 --> 00:12:17,803
But you had me going to do that part.

265
00:12:17,803 --> 00:12:19,305
But yeah, things like that.

266
00:12:19,305 --> 00:12:20,940
But I think it's making
some of the cannons

267
00:12:20,940 --> 00:12:23,375
supposedly out of the box in the vanities
and so forth.

268
00:12:23,375 --> 00:12:25,377
Maybe a little more style created
if you can,

269
00:12:25,377 --> 00:12:27,146
but again, you're somewhat
limited to what you can do.

270
00:12:27,146 --> 00:12:29,281
But and I'm
probably the wrong person to ask,

271
00:12:29,281 --> 00:12:31,751
you got people out there
and some ladies that we've worked with

272
00:12:31,751 --> 00:12:34,053
that are pretty creative
and have some great ideas too.

273
00:12:34,053 --> 00:12:36,756
So they're awfully helpful
when it comes to that. At the press.

274
00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:39,325
Our showroom. Absolutely.
There you go. Plug that show.

275
00:12:39,325 --> 00:12:40,693
Plug it. Quiet built ins.

276
00:12:40,693 --> 00:12:42,161
We had mentioned the term earlier.

277
00:12:42,161 --> 00:12:44,163
So let's just go ahead and start
talking about those.

278
00:12:44,163 --> 00:12:45,131
They have a little bit of an

279
00:12:45,131 --> 00:12:48,801
evergreen appeal
for both storage and display purposes.

280
00:12:48,901 --> 00:12:53,239
How do you approach creating that esthetic
from when you're doing built ins versus

281
00:12:53,239 --> 00:12:54,140
something else?

282
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:56,075
Again,
I think it kind of comes down to what

283
00:12:56,075 --> 00:12:59,578
what's their objective with the built ins
and what they want to do with it

284
00:12:59,712 --> 00:13:03,582
oftentimes will work for the architect
as well to try to create that look.

285
00:13:03,649 --> 00:13:06,952
Probably the most helpful thing for me
as a builder is

286
00:13:07,052 --> 00:13:10,489
when I meet with people and they say
they have an idea what they want,

287
00:13:10,489 --> 00:13:12,725
but they can't really explain it
very well.

288
00:13:12,725 --> 00:13:14,326
Is Pinterest and House

289
00:13:14,326 --> 00:13:17,997
and all of the things that are available
out there for people today.

290
00:13:18,063 --> 00:13:19,198
Just show me pictures.

291
00:13:19,198 --> 00:13:19,832
Give me an idea

292
00:13:19,832 --> 00:13:23,836
what you like or don't like about this,
or we can try to incorporate,

293
00:13:23,936 --> 00:13:24,270
you know,

294
00:13:24,270 --> 00:13:27,439
your your vision or your wish list
for that item and try to build

295
00:13:27,439 --> 00:13:28,974
that into the process itself.

296
00:13:28,974 --> 00:13:32,011
So that's probably the most helpful thing
we can do with the people as they can

297
00:13:32,011 --> 00:13:33,779
show us what they really like.

298
00:13:33,779 --> 00:13:35,381
So let's just touch on that

299
00:13:35,381 --> 00:13:38,884
because I was thinking this also,
my head cabinets have advanced so much.

300
00:13:38,884 --> 00:13:42,521
We talked about a little bit
of the automation aspect of things

301
00:13:42,755 --> 00:13:45,825
and some of the unique storage features
that they have.

302
00:13:45,858 --> 00:13:48,060
Sometimes people
they don't know, what they don't know.

303
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:51,463
They may not realize all the options
that are available to them,

304
00:13:51,463 --> 00:13:53,732
and they haven't thought,
Wow, think of what

305
00:13:53,732 --> 00:13:57,603
I could have now in my kitchen
or in my living room or in my kids room

306
00:13:57,670 --> 00:13:59,438
because of these features
that are available.

307
00:13:59,438 --> 00:14:02,441
How do you go through
just setting it up for them

308
00:14:02,641 --> 00:14:06,946
of what all the different options are
and the things that they should consider?

309
00:14:06,946 --> 00:14:10,216
Is there like a questionnaire process
you go through or is?

310
00:14:10,216 --> 00:14:14,053
I'm not that sophisticated, unfortunately,
but I think it just comes out to

311
00:14:14,053 --> 00:14:14,887
the conversation.

312
00:14:14,887 --> 00:14:17,489
You know, some people are cooks, chefs.

313
00:14:17,489 --> 00:14:20,793
They're you know, the kitchen means
something different to them than it might

314
00:14:20,793 --> 00:14:21,927
someone else.

315
00:14:21,927 --> 00:14:26,232
We have people that want a lovely kitchen,
but they just want it to look good

316
00:14:26,298 --> 00:14:26,966
because they generally

317
00:14:26,966 --> 00:14:29,969
don't use it that much,
but cracks me up in and of itself.

318
00:14:29,969 --> 00:14:32,104
Okay, But but I know that happens.

319
00:14:32,104 --> 00:14:33,072
Definitely happens.

320
00:14:33,072 --> 00:14:36,909
So you kind of got to understand
from them, you know,

321
00:14:36,976 --> 00:14:37,977
how are you going to use a kitchen?

322
00:14:37,977 --> 00:14:41,313
What do you really need from the space
itself?

323
00:14:41,380 --> 00:14:41,981
And again,

324
00:14:41,981 --> 00:14:42,681
I'll defer to

325
00:14:42,681 --> 00:14:45,885
your experts here at Prosource,
but they get to the bottom of that

326
00:14:45,885 --> 00:14:48,220
better than I can
because they're true designers.

327
00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:49,521
But I think trying to get through

328
00:14:49,521 --> 00:14:52,057
some of the underbrush
and so forth with your client

329
00:14:52,057 --> 00:14:54,426
before you send them down here,
then you kind of steer it a little bit

330
00:14:54,426 --> 00:14:56,862
because it can be overwhelming
when they come into a place like this

331
00:14:56,862 --> 00:15:00,633
that has a lot of bells and whistles
and trinkets, things to look at.

332
00:15:00,633 --> 00:15:01,300
It's

333
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:03,802
you want to have a little bit more focus
and get them on the right track

334
00:15:03,802 --> 00:15:05,738
so they don't get lost in the shuffle
a little bit.

335
00:15:05,738 --> 00:15:08,340
So when it comes to cabinets,
what are some of the tips

336
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,776
you offer for preserving
and maintaining them?

337
00:15:10,776 --> 00:15:15,648
So they last the qualities they are,
but it does require a little bit of work

338
00:15:15,648 --> 00:15:17,683
sometimes, too,
that people probably don't think about.

339
00:15:17,683 --> 00:15:21,887
If you buy a good quality cabinet,
it'll take good care of itself

340
00:15:21,887 --> 00:15:26,558
and if you obviously install it correctly,
it's a big part of it as well.

341
00:15:26,625 --> 00:15:30,329
But from there
it just basically to me cleaning

342
00:15:30,396 --> 00:15:34,533
because you'll be surprised
and you'll happen in my house as well.

343
00:15:34,533 --> 00:15:38,370
But you'd be surprised how,
how much dirt can accumulate

344
00:15:38,504 --> 00:15:41,307
in a kitchen and on a kitchen cabinet
which will, you know,

345
00:15:41,307 --> 00:15:44,143
have a pretty negative effect
on the effect on the finish at some point.

346
00:15:44,143 --> 00:15:46,712
And you think that big fancy range,

347
00:15:46,712 --> 00:15:49,682
it is going to take care
of all your grease and it does not.

348
00:15:49,682 --> 00:15:50,950
It will get throughout the house.

349
00:15:50,950 --> 00:15:52,584
So I think a good basic

350
00:15:52,584 --> 00:15:56,555
cleaning is a big part of just maintaining
the look of them anyway, the soft closed

351
00:15:56,555 --> 00:16:00,893
door doors and doors that are, you know,
pretty prevalent now or I think eliminate

352
00:16:00,926 --> 00:16:04,196
some of that hidden stress
and some of the damage created by door

353
00:16:04,196 --> 00:16:07,066
slamming when they weren't supposed to
or didn't mean to. That helps.

354
00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:10,736
And just the construction itself
you know much better

355
00:16:10,736 --> 00:16:14,340
hinges are made today a little heavier
and they will last longer.

356
00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:18,110
The draw glides and so forth
are much better than what we used to have.

357
00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:22,114
So those types of things, it's taken out
some of the risk we've had

358
00:16:22,114 --> 00:16:23,882
with those maintenance and care issues

359
00:16:23,882 --> 00:16:26,285
because they're just built better
and better options than we used to have.

360
00:16:26,285 --> 00:16:30,155
Cleaning is probably the biggest aspect
of just maintaining that that a customer

361
00:16:30,155 --> 00:16:31,357
can really do on their own.

362
00:16:31,357 --> 00:16:34,460
I've tried to look for the grease
colored cabinets so I don't have to,

363
00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:38,364
but yes, they probably have
probably said that they do

364
00:16:38,430 --> 00:16:40,532
so that
actually brought up and thought to me

365
00:16:40,532 --> 00:16:43,369
with all these advancements
that have happened with cabinets,

366
00:16:43,369 --> 00:16:47,473
how do you stay on top of it all
so that you can better advise clients on

367
00:16:47,473 --> 00:16:50,042
on considerations,
whether it comes from the choices

368
00:16:50,042 --> 00:16:53,012
that they make all the way through
to the cleaning and maintaining of,

369
00:16:53,012 --> 00:16:53,512
you know,

370
00:16:53,512 --> 00:16:56,882
there's always industry publications
and whether there's the builder show

371
00:16:56,882 --> 00:17:00,853
or something like that,
we as builders have access to that keeps

372
00:17:00,853 --> 00:17:03,088
you kind of aware of the trends and,
you know,

373
00:17:03,088 --> 00:17:05,624
improvements and types of things like that
that are out there.

374
00:17:05,624 --> 00:17:06,392
But again, I mean,

375
00:17:06,392 --> 00:17:11,730
just as it is available to our customers,
the things like a Pinterest or house

376
00:17:11,730 --> 00:17:12,564
and those types of things

377
00:17:12,564 --> 00:17:14,266
where you can see
what other people are doing,

378
00:17:14,266 --> 00:17:15,334
I think the visuals are

379
00:17:15,334 --> 00:17:17,436
just as important to me
as they are for our customers

380
00:17:17,436 --> 00:17:19,271
in terms of,
you know, seeing things that work

381
00:17:19,271 --> 00:17:21,106
and what else is out there
and that type of thing.

382
00:17:21,106 --> 00:17:23,609
And then of course,
your manufacturers are out

383
00:17:23,609 --> 00:17:26,912
keeping you abreast and aware of
what's new and what's out there as well

384
00:17:26,912 --> 00:17:30,349
as, you know, our consultants here
prosource keep us pretty well clued in to.

385
00:17:30,349 --> 00:17:32,985
So a variety of ways.
I think we can stay in touch.

386
00:17:32,985 --> 00:17:37,122
Probably the most popular choice
of cabinets that people put in their homes

387
00:17:37,189 --> 00:17:42,494
are the White shaker cabinets,
traditional clean, evergreen forever.

388
00:17:42,594 --> 00:17:44,163
But maybe.

389
00:17:44,163 --> 00:17:46,965
Or are you starting to see
maybe people are sort of turning away from

390
00:17:46,965 --> 00:17:50,035
that because they do want a unique
look to their kitchen?

391
00:17:50,035 --> 00:17:54,406
Lisa Maybe not unique,
but at least not that everything changes

392
00:17:54,406 --> 00:17:55,240
over a period of time.

393
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,211
You know, right now we're now
we're very clean lines, you know,

394
00:17:59,278 --> 00:18:01,180
a little more
that's a little more attractive

395
00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:03,949
to more people,
I think, at this point than it used to be.

396
00:18:04,049 --> 00:18:06,051
Cabinets, you know, used to be the more
crown

397
00:18:06,051 --> 00:18:10,289
molding and corbels and glazing
and those types of things that was in.

398
00:18:10,289 --> 00:18:11,790
And that's what everybody wanted.

399
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:13,892
And that's
that changes over a period of time.

400
00:18:13,892 --> 00:18:15,360
Now, like I said, it's more clean.

401
00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:17,296
The white has come back strong.

402
00:18:17,296 --> 00:18:18,597
It's been around for quite a while.

403
00:18:18,597 --> 00:18:22,868
Shaker is still popular, I think, 
and will be always be an option anyway.

404
00:18:22,968 --> 00:18:24,503
But I think you are starting to see
some people

405
00:18:24,503 --> 00:18:27,506
come back into more of the woods
and stains and that type of thing

406
00:18:27,706 --> 00:18:28,474
and mixing it.

407
00:18:28,474 --> 00:18:31,176
You know, we'll have somebody
that may do a stained island

408
00:18:31,176 --> 00:18:34,580
and then painted perimeter
and it could be white or another color

409
00:18:34,580 --> 00:18:38,150
even, or stain bases with painted uppers
or that type of thing.

410
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:41,520
So you can mix and match
more of an accepted style,

411
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,257
I think an attractive style right now
that it's kind of moved in that direction

412
00:18:45,257 --> 00:18:45,591
a little bit.

413
00:18:45,591 --> 00:18:49,261
I think as a builder,
what let's look into your crystal ball.

414
00:18:49,261 --> 00:18:52,764
What's on the horizon with cabinets,
especially new homes,

415
00:18:52,831 --> 00:18:55,801
whether it's this year
or even maybe a few years down the line.

416
00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:59,505
Do you see something that's trending for
maybe the next year or so,

417
00:18:59,605 --> 00:19:02,441
but you also see something on the horizon
that could be coming down

418
00:19:02,441 --> 00:19:04,176
or at least being more popular?

419
00:19:04,176 --> 00:19:08,013
You know, I I'm an old builder,
so I'm probably not mature.

420
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,649
We don't use old well,

421
00:19:10,716 --> 00:19:12,518
more old than I am mature.

422
00:19:12,518 --> 00:19:14,386
I don't know if I'm the right guy
to answer that,

423
00:19:14,386 --> 00:19:17,523
but some of the things I just mentioned
I think are what I see now.

424
00:19:17,556 --> 00:19:21,326
That's maybe fairly early in the trend,
but colors, I see more colors, you know,

425
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:21,994
coming in.

426
00:19:21,994 --> 00:19:26,565
So just to add a little interest, again,
I would encourage or discourage people

427
00:19:26,565 --> 00:19:30,302
from just chasing a trend,
but let the trend influence

428
00:19:30,302 --> 00:19:31,937
some of their personal choices
a little bit.

429
00:19:31,937 --> 00:19:35,641
But I think color
the stain we talked about is a big item.

430
00:19:35,641 --> 00:19:38,877
But in terms of, you know,
cabinet structure and that type of thing,

431
00:19:38,877 --> 00:19:42,581
I don't think that changes a whole lot,
you know, the basics anyway.

432
00:19:42,581 --> 00:19:47,819
But I think probably the the mix,
the stains and some colors being used here

433
00:19:47,819 --> 00:19:49,721
and there are probably something
we're going to see

434
00:19:49,721 --> 00:19:54,459
moved a little more to the forefront
than what we've seen in the past.

435
00:19:54,526 --> 00:19:57,796
Kevin, we appreciate you joining us here
today and giving us your thoughts.

436
00:19:57,796 --> 00:19:58,997
Glad to be here.

437
00:19:58,997 --> 00:19:59,765
Appreciate it.

438
00:19:59,765 --> 00:20:03,135
Thanks. Thanks.

439
00:20:03,235 --> 00:20:05,103
So now we're going to switch gears a bit

440
00:20:05,103 --> 00:20:07,272
and I'm joined by Stephanie Pearce
from best Friend.

441
00:20:07,272 --> 00:20:08,774
Stephanie, thanks for joining us today.

442
00:20:08,774 --> 00:20:10,442
Thank you so much for having me.

443
00:20:10,442 --> 00:20:12,010
So let's start with the simple ones.

444
00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:13,712
Could you tell us a little bit
about yourself?

445
00:20:13,712 --> 00:20:16,515
You know, basic stuff,
you know, bank account number,

446
00:20:16,515 --> 00:20:18,684
Social Security number,
those sorts of things.

447
00:20:18,684 --> 00:20:19,051
Sure.

448
00:20:19,051 --> 00:20:21,553
All the details that I love
to share regularly.

449
00:20:21,553 --> 00:20:23,188
Exactly.

450
00:20:23,188 --> 00:20:27,092
Thank you guys for asking
me to sit in on this with you today.

451
00:20:27,092 --> 00:20:31,897
I'm really looking forward to being able
to share insights around trends.

452
00:20:31,897 --> 00:20:35,867
That is one of my primary roles
for Mastering Cabinets.

453
00:20:35,867 --> 00:20:38,670
I've been with the organization
for 23 years.

454
00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:41,940
Primarily, as I mentioned,
trend analysis is a huge part

455
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:46,612
of what we do there
that helps lead us for better solutions

456
00:20:46,612 --> 00:20:51,183
for our customers, but also, you know,
from a product development perspective.

457
00:20:51,183 --> 00:20:54,920
And then just generally to be able
to communicate and educate changes

458
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,223
that are happening in our industry
with our customers and consumers alike.

459
00:20:58,223 --> 00:21:00,225
So thrilled to be able to sit here today

460
00:21:00,225 --> 00:21:02,060
and talk with you
about some of the exciting things

461
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:04,296
that we think
are happening in our industry.

462
00:21:04,296 --> 00:21:05,063
That's great.

463
00:21:05,063 --> 00:21:08,267
I don't know, talking to me,
I don't know how much the thrilled level

464
00:21:08,267 --> 00:21:11,270
will stay high for you,
but let's go with it for right now.

465
00:21:11,303 --> 00:21:11,670
Start.

466
00:21:11,670 --> 00:21:14,072
But if you take this outside
of the industry,

467
00:21:14,072 --> 00:21:16,308
not a lot of people know the name
Master Brand.

468
00:21:16,308 --> 00:21:19,411
So what are some of the brands
that fall underneath your umbrella

469
00:21:19,411 --> 00:21:22,414
that may be a little more recognizable
to people?

470
00:21:22,514 --> 00:21:23,215
Yeah, of course.

471
00:21:23,215 --> 00:21:28,920
So Master Brand is our umbrella company
where we have multiple brands underneath

472
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,692
that umbrella that offer solutions,
anything from same day takeaway

473
00:21:33,692 --> 00:21:37,696
kind of cash and carry DIY solutions
all the way to fully

474
00:21:37,796 --> 00:21:40,532
premium customized solutions.

475
00:21:40,532 --> 00:21:43,568
So some of the more probably more likely

476
00:21:43,735 --> 00:21:47,472
no names would be in our mass market
brands,

477
00:21:47,472 --> 00:21:51,276
which would be like a Schrock
or Diamond or Kemper.

478
00:21:51,343 --> 00:21:54,713
Those Cabinet brands offer solutions
anywhere from value.

479
00:21:54,713 --> 00:21:57,816
Semi-Custom and semi-custom
is just a way of saying that you can

480
00:21:57,816 --> 00:22:01,153
modify
and make to order your kitchen solution

481
00:22:01,153 --> 00:22:05,123
and all the way up to some enhanced
semi-custom solution.

482
00:22:05,123 --> 00:22:08,927
So being able to get additional features
like size,

483
00:22:08,927 --> 00:22:12,664
height, width, depth, size
modifications and custom color.

484
00:22:12,664 --> 00:22:16,335
So those are names that are commonly known
through the broader industry.

485
00:22:16,335 --> 00:22:21,506
But then we we specialize on both ends
of that spectrum going from the core out.

486
00:22:21,573 --> 00:22:25,444
So Omega is one of our premium brands
that has a lot of recognition

487
00:22:25,444 --> 00:22:28,814
associated with it,
and that's a fully customized solution.

488
00:22:28,914 --> 00:22:31,750
Essentially, if you can dream it
and it's safe for us to build it,

489
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:32,884
we will produce it.

490
00:22:32,884 --> 00:22:36,755
Additionally, on sort of the in-stock side
of our business,

491
00:22:36,755 --> 00:22:40,459
Aristocrat is a really well known
name, provides stock solutions,

492
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:42,694
meaning
there isn't a lot of customization,

493
00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:45,630
but it's pretty standard
and it's got enough breadth to fill

494
00:22:45,630 --> 00:22:48,600
the majority of what mass
consumers are looking for.

495
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,971
We also have another brand that we've just
launched in the last couple of years,

496
00:22:53,071 --> 00:22:56,641
which would be mantra,
which offers a quick turn solution.

497
00:22:56,675 --> 00:23:01,179
Similarly, not a lot of customization,
but you can get the cabinets really fast.

498
00:23:01,179 --> 00:23:04,950
So what's really unique about the massive
brand portfolio is that we offer

499
00:23:04,950 --> 00:23:08,854
solutions depending on what the need is
pretty much across the board.

500
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,458
So you work a lot
with on the professional side of things,

501
00:23:13,558 --> 00:23:16,328
do you take their
input a lot into consideration

502
00:23:16,328 --> 00:23:19,664
when you're developing new cabinets
or do they even have an influence?

503
00:23:19,664 --> 00:23:21,867
What you say,
because they're out there in the field

504
00:23:21,867 --> 00:23:24,603
working with these
all the time? Absolutely.

505
00:23:24,603 --> 00:23:28,974
I mean, roughly 70% of our sales
go through trade professionals.

506
00:23:28,974 --> 00:23:32,544
And so it's very important
to understand what their needs are,

507
00:23:32,611 --> 00:23:35,714
both from a product perspective,
but also a service perspective.

508
00:23:35,714 --> 00:23:40,352
We poll and talk to our customers
on a regular basis.

509
00:23:40,352 --> 00:23:44,022
Our trends presentation
that we put together is based off

510
00:23:44,022 --> 00:23:47,926
of a survey that is completely inputted
by trade professionals.

511
00:23:47,926 --> 00:23:49,661
So there's a lot of different touch points

512
00:23:49,661 --> 00:23:51,830
that will reach out to them
throughout the year

513
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:53,432
to give us that insight and feedback.

514
00:23:53,432 --> 00:23:56,935
And it directly translates
to the solutions that we bring to market

515
00:23:57,002 --> 00:23:57,302
there.

516
00:23:57,302 --> 00:24:00,305
Yeah, then so let's take the kitchen
out of the equation.

517
00:24:00,305 --> 00:24:02,541
We own it. All cabinets go in the kitchen.

518
00:24:02,541 --> 00:24:04,176
That's just a given. But

519
00:24:04,176 --> 00:24:08,113
what rooms are you finding on your site
to be the most popular for cabinets?

520
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:10,782
It's subtracting
that one from the equation.

521
00:24:10,782 --> 00:24:11,917
Yeah, absolutely.

522
00:24:11,917 --> 00:24:16,154
So it's it's interesting
how the consumer preferences around design

523
00:24:16,154 --> 00:24:20,926
and esthetic and how they get
that inspiration has shifted over the last

524
00:24:21,026 --> 00:24:24,830
I mean I'll call it the last decade,
but it's really taken a different turn

525
00:24:24,830 --> 00:24:26,064
since the pandemic.

526
00:24:26,064 --> 00:24:31,470
And so there's a lot more education
and online visibility that consumers

527
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:35,307
have to be inspired by the products
that they want to put into their homes.

528
00:24:35,373 --> 00:24:40,345
So going beyond the kitchen rooms
that have really become focal points

529
00:24:40,345 --> 00:24:43,348
for being able to drive creative esthetic

530
00:24:43,582 --> 00:24:46,318
are things like craft rooms
and or laundry.

531
00:24:46,318 --> 00:24:48,386
Oftentimes those two things get combined.

532
00:24:48,386 --> 00:24:51,389
So laundry is a is another big opportunity

533
00:24:51,389 --> 00:24:55,560
for us to integrate cabinetry solutions
and then naturally bath.

534
00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:01,066
So both Master Bath and half Bath and
then home offices is another unique one.

535
00:25:01,066 --> 00:25:04,469
So there's a lot of variation
in how solutions are built

536
00:25:04,536 --> 00:25:08,039
for people to be able to accommodate
remote working or hybrid working.

537
00:25:08,206 --> 00:25:11,009
And so we're still seeing
a lot of evolution in that trend.

538
00:25:11,009 --> 00:25:14,312
So a lot more to come in that space.

539
00:25:14,379 --> 00:25:15,146
Yes. Just

540
00:25:15,146 --> 00:25:18,183
because you mentioned the Home Office,
did you see a significant

541
00:25:18,183 --> 00:25:22,721
spike in that room during the pandemic
as everyone's forced to work from home,

542
00:25:22,821 --> 00:25:26,892
wanting to make it a nicer environment,
to work from home?

543
00:25:26,958 --> 00:25:30,328
I think immediately in the pandemic,
not not as much,

544
00:25:30,328 --> 00:25:32,197
because I think there was
a lot of uncertainty

545
00:25:32,197 --> 00:25:36,001
as to how long is this going to last
and what kind of solutions

546
00:25:36,001 --> 00:25:41,339
I know I had people in my organization
who were working off the card tables

547
00:25:41,339 --> 00:25:45,510
for a really long time
when remote working first kicked off

548
00:25:45,510 --> 00:25:47,445
because there was just
a lot of uncertainty

549
00:25:47,445 --> 00:25:50,782
at how long it was going to last
and what the evolution was going to be.

550
00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:53,552
But I think it's
that environment is a lot more stable now

551
00:25:53,552 --> 00:25:58,290
and so people have solutions around,
you know,

552
00:25:58,356 --> 00:26:01,159
to what degree are they going to be remote
or hybrid

553
00:26:01,159 --> 00:26:05,830
or what their work environment needs to be
to facilitate their long term needs.

554
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:06,798
So I think you're probably

555
00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:10,702
seeing more of that evolution
happening in the last two years,

556
00:26:10,702 --> 00:26:15,273
maybe in the last year, and certainly
continuing into the next couple of years.

557
00:26:15,340 --> 00:26:18,977
It's funny how we talk about the pandemic
as if it was just yesterday.

558
00:26:18,977 --> 00:26:22,681
It was actually started four years ago
when it really occurred,

559
00:26:22,681 --> 00:26:25,650
but it's still so fresh in our minds
because the after effects

560
00:26:25,850 --> 00:26:29,120
and may I state for the record,
I did not work from the card table.

561
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,423
I upgraded to the dining room table.

562
00:26:31,423 --> 00:26:31,856
There you go.

563
00:26:31,856 --> 00:26:36,595
I did my part
before I finally upgraded my home office,

564
00:26:36,661 --> 00:26:39,331
so we touched on it here.

565
00:26:39,331 --> 00:26:40,832
But let's continue that conversation.

566
00:26:40,832 --> 00:26:43,835
How has cabinet placement
throughout the home really evolved

567
00:26:43,835 --> 00:26:47,305
over the years and has Master
Brand had to evolve

568
00:26:47,305 --> 00:26:51,676
your focus, sort of shift
your focus to match that along the way?

569
00:26:51,776 --> 00:26:52,444
Absolutely.

570
00:26:52,444 --> 00:26:54,446
I mean,
as part of being a solution provider

571
00:26:54,446 --> 00:26:57,449
for the home,
we have to stay really closely in tune

572
00:26:57,482 --> 00:26:59,718
and in touch with consumers
and their needs.

573
00:26:59,718 --> 00:27:03,254
And so one of the biggest factors
that drives

574
00:27:03,355 --> 00:27:07,058
innovation and product development,
aside from being in touch with our trade

575
00:27:07,058 --> 00:27:10,261
professionals, is really understanding
shifts for the consumer

576
00:27:10,261 --> 00:27:14,099
and where they're putting prioritization
for solutions for their home.

577
00:27:14,099 --> 00:27:17,502
So lots of things continue to evolve.

578
00:27:17,569 --> 00:27:20,572
Some of the most recent shifts,
I would say,

579
00:27:20,572 --> 00:27:23,808
revolve around the evolution
of the kitchen island.

580
00:27:23,942 --> 00:27:26,444
Again,
you can look at the last decade of data

581
00:27:26,444 --> 00:27:30,815
and really see how that has changed from
do you need an island?

582
00:27:30,815 --> 00:27:34,052
Do you not need an island
to how big of an island to

583
00:27:34,052 --> 00:27:35,820
what are the different types of solutions

584
00:27:35,820 --> 00:27:40,191
that people are needing their island
to provide for them?

585
00:27:40,425 --> 00:27:45,063
It's funny how you said you you upgraded
from your card table to your dining table,

586
00:27:45,263 --> 00:27:47,265
but a lot of people upgraded from,

587
00:27:47,265 --> 00:27:50,268
you know, a temporary solution
to their kitchen island.

588
00:27:50,335 --> 00:27:54,205
I'm often on calls with people like, 
I'm just working for my kitchen island.

589
00:27:54,205 --> 00:27:55,173
And that's just,

590
00:27:55,173 --> 00:27:59,244
you know, it's an adaptable space
that has to provide multiple functions.

591
00:27:59,310 --> 00:28:03,648
And in our survey
just this last year, 82% of designers

592
00:28:03,748 --> 00:28:07,152
were telling us that they agree
or somewhat agree that the kitchen island

593
00:28:07,152 --> 00:28:08,887
has replaced the majority

594
00:28:08,887 --> 00:28:13,258
of dining solutions within the home,
or at least formal dining solutions.

595
00:28:13,324 --> 00:28:17,262
So that's a huge functional evolution
that you absolutely have to provide

596
00:28:17,362 --> 00:28:20,465
product solutions
in order to overcome those challenges.

597
00:28:20,699 --> 00:28:23,702
82% that that's a little high.

598
00:28:23,702 --> 00:28:27,172
So, wow. You know,
but it's not unexpected.

599
00:28:27,172 --> 00:28:30,709
I mean, one of the areas
where we get a lot of insights into how

600
00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:35,013
our industry could potentially be evolving
is furniture market.

601
00:28:35,013 --> 00:28:36,981
And it hasn't been that long ago.

602
00:28:36,981 --> 00:28:39,951
I won't say exactly how long,
but it hasn't been that long ago

603
00:28:39,951 --> 00:28:44,189
that I was walking furniture
market and was introduced

604
00:28:44,189 --> 00:28:47,325
as a cabinet manufacturer,
just chatting up some other

605
00:28:47,325 --> 00:28:50,995
design professionals
and they jokingly said,

606
00:28:51,062 --> 00:28:54,799
I guess you guys are the reason
that we selling less dining solutions.

607
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:58,336
So it's not unique to our industry
to have this knowledge.

608
00:28:58,336 --> 00:29:03,408
I think even furniture manufacturers
feel this shift in this change.

609
00:29:03,508 --> 00:29:04,309
Okay, then.

610
00:29:04,309 --> 00:29:09,781
So infamous famous going to be probably
around forever white shaker cabinets.

611
00:29:09,781 --> 00:29:11,015
They're still out there.

612
00:29:11,015 --> 00:29:15,086
But what has made them so popular, I mean,
and even if it's the popularity

613
00:29:15,086 --> 00:29:16,755
per say is waning a little bit.

614
00:29:16,755 --> 00:29:20,658
But what just cause
those to be the timeless look?

615
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:24,462
I mean, most designers you talk to are
would hope that exactly what you said

616
00:29:24,462 --> 00:29:25,396
doesn't happen.

617
00:29:25,396 --> 00:29:29,701
Like we do not want white Shaker
to continue forever.

618
00:29:29,768 --> 00:29:33,872
Certainly it came about after
after the Great Recession

619
00:29:33,872 --> 00:29:38,276
when when home values were top of mind
for most homeowners

620
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:41,946
and the need for something
that was neutral and resale able

621
00:29:41,946 --> 00:29:46,718
to the mass market created
a lot of appeal for those solutions.

622
00:29:46,785 --> 00:29:52,724
It also was an esthetic choice
or a design evolution that just naturally

623
00:29:52,724 --> 00:29:56,461
was going to occur in our industry,
where people were looking for

624
00:29:56,694 --> 00:29:58,263
more of a blank canvas

625
00:29:58,263 --> 00:30:01,966
in order to build their design esthetic
on top of that canvas.

626
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,202
And it certainly started out that way.

627
00:30:04,202 --> 00:30:09,274
It was very trendy early on to create
sort of that neutral, blank esthetic

628
00:30:09,541 --> 00:30:12,343
and then build your design influence
on top of that.

629
00:30:12,343 --> 00:30:15,346
So essentially that white canvas,
so to speak.

630
00:30:15,346 --> 00:30:19,050
But what happens
when you overplay a design trend,

631
00:30:19,050 --> 00:30:22,086
which naturally is what we've seen
with White Sugar, because it's

632
00:30:22,086 --> 00:30:26,491
been over a decade
that it has remained popular, is that not

633
00:30:26,491 --> 00:30:29,527
everybody was using it
to its original intent and it becomes

634
00:30:29,527 --> 00:30:34,065
oversaturated and eventually
it just looks sterile and bland.

635
00:30:34,065 --> 00:30:37,702
And so a lot of times when people
look at it today now don't get me wrong,

636
00:30:37,869 --> 00:30:39,304
white sugar is classic.

637
00:30:39,304 --> 00:30:40,772
It's never going to go out of style.

638
00:30:40,772 --> 00:30:42,073
There's always going to be people

639
00:30:42,073 --> 00:30:45,977
who are using it to create
beautiful design solutions.

640
00:30:46,211 --> 00:30:50,315
But there's also a lot of people who are
just using it as essentially just creating

641
00:30:50,315 --> 00:30:55,019
a blank canvas with no personality
and no real design influence.

642
00:30:55,086 --> 00:30:59,557
And that's what I think you're starting
to see what really wane in popularity.

643
00:30:59,724 --> 00:31:03,127
And that is also giving way
to a lot of different solutions.

644
00:31:03,127 --> 00:31:04,262
So personality

645
00:31:04,262 --> 00:31:09,234
and personal influence in design
solutions is really starting to shift.

646
00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:13,071
And minimalism and contemporary esthetic.

647
00:31:13,071 --> 00:31:17,008
That real, streamlined, clean, sterile
look is starting to become way

648
00:31:17,008 --> 00:31:21,079
less popular, which is great news,
but I don't think we're going to be,

649
00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:25,183
at least not for a while, in a state
where we say, white Shaker is so out,

650
00:31:25,250 --> 00:31:26,284
I would love to be able to.

651
00:31:26,284 --> 00:31:30,788
I can't wait till the day or like the
headlines read that white shaker is out.

652
00:31:30,855 --> 00:31:33,725
But it's it's become
a tool in designers toolbox

653
00:31:33,725 --> 00:31:37,562
that when when it fits the right need
it is the right thing to do.

654
00:31:37,629 --> 00:31:40,365
But I think what's really nice
is that we're starting to see that

655
00:31:40,365 --> 00:31:43,801
it isn't necessarily
the only or the go to solution.

656
00:31:43,868 --> 00:31:49,173
The palette has really broadened into off
whites or even tropes and beiges

657
00:31:49,173 --> 00:31:52,977
to help create that
same example of a neutral esthetic.

658
00:31:53,044 --> 00:31:56,047
But people are exploring
alternatives to the shaker.

659
00:31:56,281 --> 00:31:57,782
There's the thin line shaker,

660
00:31:57,782 --> 00:32:01,786
the skinny rail shaker,
the one with the really narrow exterior.

661
00:32:01,886 --> 00:32:05,256
There's also different door styles
that have a really clean esthetic,

662
00:32:05,256 --> 00:32:09,627
but offer you a little bit of beating
or detailing on the inside of the rail.

663
00:32:09,694 --> 00:32:13,164
Those things go a really long way
to creating additional personality

664
00:32:13,164 --> 00:32:16,801
within the space without being overly
sterile or overly clean.

665
00:32:16,968 --> 00:32:19,971
No, All I could think of
as you were talking about it with the

666
00:32:20,004 --> 00:32:23,641
hope that it happens someday,
but with all designers, I gather in Times

667
00:32:23,641 --> 00:32:25,810
Square, just like New Year's Eve,
it does offer one

668
00:32:25,810 --> 00:32:29,347
big celebration as the shaker door drops
instead of the ball.

669
00:32:29,414 --> 00:32:31,983
I can't even tell you how many times
I've talked to designers

670
00:32:31,983 --> 00:32:35,486
and they've said if I have to design
one more white sheet for kitchen

671
00:32:35,553 --> 00:32:38,856
and then I can almost assure you
the next customer in the door

672
00:32:38,856 --> 00:32:40,091
wanted a white shaker.

673
00:32:40,091 --> 00:32:42,560
I say, Yeah,
they set that one up beautifully.

674
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,799
It's it's it's tough, but there is
a horizon that has some hope on it.

675
00:32:47,865 --> 00:32:48,733
Okay.

676
00:32:48,733 --> 00:32:51,602
Well, now I'm worried
that we might be repeating ourselves,

677
00:32:51,602 --> 00:32:54,205
but I'll ask my question anyway,
because it was next on the list.

678
00:32:54,205 --> 00:32:58,309
But just because of what you said,
when you get beyond beyond white

679
00:32:58,443 --> 00:33:02,380
or even wood stained cabinets,
are there any specific colors

680
00:33:02,380 --> 00:33:05,383
that are gaining momentum out there?

681
00:33:05,383 --> 00:33:08,586
And how bold are people
maybe going with that?

682
00:33:08,653 --> 00:33:09,420
Absolutely.

683
00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:12,423
So we definitely asked this question
of our designers

684
00:33:12,423 --> 00:33:15,593
this past year
and what they came back and told us

685
00:33:15,593 --> 00:33:21,099
is that 31% of designers would agree
that Green is absolutely having a moment.

686
00:33:21,099 --> 00:33:25,269
In 2024, 18% of designers
still think it's blue.

687
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:28,973
So those are the top three
would dramatically dropped off after that.

688
00:33:28,973 --> 00:33:31,409
And it really went into like beige and off
white.

689
00:33:31,409 --> 00:33:35,113
Black and even gray is still kind of
at the bottom of that list.

690
00:33:35,113 --> 00:33:39,017
Again, Gray is certainly not
the predominant color anymore, but

691
00:33:39,017 --> 00:33:42,653
it's never going to truly go fully away
because when you need that color,

692
00:33:42,787 --> 00:33:43,788
you need that color.

693
00:33:43,788 --> 00:33:46,791
And it's a pretty well
a staple in the toolbox now as well.

694
00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:51,529
But knowing that both designers
and consumers are more open and welcoming

695
00:33:51,562 --> 00:33:56,801
to other colors, you know, blue really hit
the scene hard in 2017.

696
00:33:56,801 --> 00:34:01,005
I know that seems like forever ago,
but it has been around and popular

697
00:34:01,005 --> 00:34:02,774
for that long.

698
00:34:02,874 --> 00:34:05,243
But it's evolved over that time.

699
00:34:05,243 --> 00:34:07,478
And I would say there's at least six blues

700
00:34:07,478 --> 00:34:12,116
that are wildly popular
at this point in time or a range, right?

701
00:34:12,116 --> 00:34:15,453
Sometimes color can be very personal
and people will choose nuances

702
00:34:15,453 --> 00:34:16,721
of those colors.

703
00:34:16,721 --> 00:34:19,557
But it's it's roughly evolved into,
you know, there's

704
00:34:19,557 --> 00:34:23,161
a palette of six that you see
continuously over and over again.

705
00:34:23,227 --> 00:34:24,662
Green is early days.

706
00:34:24,662 --> 00:34:28,366
Green is really two colors
that you see over and over again.

707
00:34:28,466 --> 00:34:33,471
But every trend insight we have points
to the fact that Green has the potential

708
00:34:33,471 --> 00:34:37,475
to evolve very similarly to blue
and that we could end up with,

709
00:34:37,542 --> 00:34:41,512
you know, 4 to 6 greens
really sitting solidly in that palette.

710
00:34:41,512 --> 00:34:46,050
I'm old enough that I can remember a day
when everybody had a green,

711
00:34:46,084 --> 00:34:49,320
a blue, a red, a yellow,
like you needed something.

712
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,590
And every one of those ranges,
but one was good enough and consumers

713
00:34:52,590 --> 00:34:55,593
lucky charms of of cabinets
exactly every color

714
00:34:55,726 --> 00:34:58,329
and it was pretty consistent
in the industry as well.

715
00:34:58,329 --> 00:35:01,566
I mean there is a little bit of nuance
but it was a mid tone green

716
00:35:01,566 --> 00:35:03,034
It was a dark blue.

717
00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:06,037
But what's interesting about today's
consumer is that they're not

718
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:09,474
they're not satisfied with the limitation
of those types of choices,

719
00:35:09,474 --> 00:35:11,676
and they really need a broader
breadth of choice

720
00:35:11,676 --> 00:35:14,412
in order to get to
those personalized solutions.

721
00:35:14,412 --> 00:35:17,115
So color is
is going to continue to evolve.

722
00:35:17,115 --> 00:35:20,551
And it's really it's one of the most
exciting areas of the kitchen

723
00:35:20,551 --> 00:35:24,388
and bath industry is
is really seeing that evolution take place

724
00:35:24,455 --> 00:35:28,993
and and trying to create 
the right solutions for consumers.

725
00:35:29,093 --> 00:35:30,695
So now I'm
not going to let you off the hook

726
00:35:30,695 --> 00:35:32,363
because I'm only ask two questions here.

727
00:35:32,363 --> 00:35:34,665
One, okay, don't leave me hanging here.

728
00:35:34,665 --> 00:35:37,668
You said there were two tones
really of green that that

729
00:35:37,768 --> 00:35:39,504
are kind of the popular ones right now.

730
00:35:39,504 --> 00:35:42,306
So what are those? And second is

731
00:35:42,373 --> 00:35:44,342
whether it's green, whether it's blue,

732
00:35:44,342 --> 00:35:48,212
do you find those more confined
to the kitchen or the bathroom,

733
00:35:48,479 --> 00:35:51,716
or are you finding those
throughout the home as well?

734
00:35:51,782 --> 00:35:53,818
You're definitely finding them
throughout the home.

735
00:35:53,818 --> 00:35:56,521
I'll answer your first
your second question first.

736
00:35:56,521 --> 00:35:58,589
You're fine with course
getting keep your hang it.

737
00:35:58,589 --> 00:36:01,993
Just look,
I mean, if I can create suspense for your

738
00:36:01,993 --> 00:36:04,996
for your podcast, you certainly will try.

739
00:36:05,229 --> 00:36:06,764
Thank you.

740
00:36:06,764 --> 00:36:10,234
So you definitely see color utilized
in a lot of different areas of the home.

741
00:36:10,234 --> 00:36:14,372
It's it's definitely easier
I think, for most homeowners to make a

742
00:36:14,372 --> 00:36:19,977
color selection outside of the kitchen
because it tends to be a smaller impact

743
00:36:19,977 --> 00:36:25,149
and therefore it feels like
it's it's easier to change over time.

744
00:36:25,216 --> 00:36:27,685
Most people are not going to want
to renovate their kitchen

745
00:36:27,685 --> 00:36:31,822
more than once in their lifetime
unless they're moving to a different home.

746
00:36:31,923 --> 00:36:34,992
They tend to be more conservative
when they choose color for the kitchen.

747
00:36:34,992 --> 00:36:38,462
But what we're seeing historically is
that islands

748
00:36:38,462 --> 00:36:41,866
are one of the best
and easiest ways to integrate color.

749
00:36:41,866 --> 00:36:44,869
Again,
because it's in a contained smaller area.

750
00:36:44,936 --> 00:36:48,372
And so it feels like if you ever did
get tired of your selection

751
00:36:48,372 --> 00:36:51,142
that you would be easier.
It would be easy to update it.

752
00:36:51,142 --> 00:36:54,212
So certainly things like bathrooms
and laundry rooms

753
00:36:54,212 --> 00:36:58,583
where you have fewer cabinets
utilize it feels

754
00:36:58,683 --> 00:37:02,820
whether it is or isn't, it feels easier
to personalize those spaces

755
00:37:03,020 --> 00:37:03,821
and then take on the

756
00:37:03,821 --> 00:37:07,858
challenge of updating later if you decide
that you want something different.

757
00:37:07,925 --> 00:37:11,529
But I'll tell you what's interesting is,
is that it's still our even

758
00:37:11,529 --> 00:37:14,398
our data tells us
that still people find it easiest

759
00:37:14,398 --> 00:37:17,101
to integrate color in the kitchen via
the island.

760
00:37:17,101 --> 00:37:20,972
We're seeing quite a bit of momentum
and growth of people

761
00:37:20,972 --> 00:37:24,242
integrating color in the perimeter
of their kitchen now as well.

762
00:37:24,275 --> 00:37:27,245
Maybe not uppers and lowers,
but potentially just

763
00:37:27,245 --> 00:37:30,815
the lowers to get more impactful color
utilization.

764
00:37:30,848 --> 00:37:32,316
And I think a lot of the inspiration

765
00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:35,319
that consumers
find these days is showing that as well.

766
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:40,424
So it really is taking huge steps and
building consumer confidence around color.

767
00:37:40,424 --> 00:37:43,561
When designers describe the Greens to us,
it is

768
00:37:43,561 --> 00:37:46,797
kind of a it's
generally described as a sage green.

769
00:37:46,797 --> 00:37:50,001
Now there's still interpretation
as to what Sage Green is,

770
00:37:50,101 --> 00:37:53,771
but I would say it's a mid tone
and I like to call these chameleon colors

771
00:37:53,771 --> 00:37:58,442
because ultimately it needs
to have some brown or gray undertone

772
00:37:58,442 --> 00:38:01,746
so that they become very flexible
and they sort of can work

773
00:38:01,746 --> 00:38:04,248
with a lot of different other colors,
whether you're looking

774
00:38:04,248 --> 00:38:08,319
at other opaque neutrals
like whites and off whites and beiges

775
00:38:08,386 --> 00:38:11,188
or whether you're integrating
those tones with would stay.

776
00:38:11,188 --> 00:38:14,792
And so again,
the neutrality of the opaque is important.

777
00:38:14,792 --> 00:38:18,763
And oftentimes you get there by kind of
dirtying up the boldness of the color.

778
00:38:18,763 --> 00:38:22,333
So it becomes very flexible
to work with a lot of different colors.

779
00:38:22,433 --> 00:38:26,270
So sage certainly does provide you
with that sort of solution.

780
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:30,241
Alternatively,
we still see a lot of dark greens,

781
00:38:30,241 --> 00:38:33,878
so there's certainly a movement
towards Moody.

782
00:38:33,944 --> 00:38:37,415
There's a lot of different ways that
people are describing this, this esthetic.

783
00:38:37,415 --> 00:38:38,282
It's not new.

784
00:38:38,282 --> 00:38:41,152
It's been peeking
its head out for a while.

785
00:38:41,152 --> 00:38:44,522
There's a lot more influencers
who are showing different ways

786
00:38:44,522 --> 00:38:47,558
to create a darker, moodier esthetic

787
00:38:47,558 --> 00:38:52,697
in your home, and it's still not feel
sort of enclosed or removing that open

788
00:38:52,697 --> 00:38:55,833
airiness that people really appreciate
from the lighter finishes.

789
00:38:55,833 --> 00:38:57,768
There is a way to achieve that particular.

790
00:38:57,768 --> 00:38:58,235
If you have a lot of

791
00:38:58,235 --> 00:39:02,273
natural light in your space
and still utilize a lot of dark tones.

792
00:39:02,373 --> 00:39:07,511
So those dark greens definitely provide
really good solutions there.

793
00:39:07,611 --> 00:39:10,047
Ultimately,
I think we'll see light greens.

794
00:39:10,047 --> 00:39:13,250
We do hear some conversation and see

795
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:17,988
some influence of a lighter, 
not quite a pastel,

796
00:39:17,988 --> 00:39:22,593
but a lighter green, maybe with a
little more yellow or olive undertone.

797
00:39:22,593 --> 00:39:23,761
So I would say that's

798
00:39:23,761 --> 00:39:27,398
kind of on the horizon for where
greens are going to evolve next.

799
00:39:27,465 --> 00:39:30,601
So if we break out of the color aspect.

800
00:39:30,801 --> 00:39:34,972
SE But what has made wood cabinets
so timeless in their approach,

801
00:39:35,172 --> 00:39:39,009
we talked a little bit about Shaker
that's maybe timeless for now,

802
00:39:39,009 --> 00:39:42,480
but Wood Cabinets have just been timeless.

803
00:39:42,546 --> 00:39:47,218
Yeah, and I think it's the nature of the
kitchen and the relationship of a kitchen.

804
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:52,590
In a home, you tend to need neutrality
in your kitchen cabinets to some degree

805
00:39:52,590 --> 00:39:58,195
because it's such a large grounding visual
in your overall home esthetic.

806
00:39:58,262 --> 00:40:01,165
So naturally,
you know, whites and off whites

807
00:40:01,165 --> 00:40:04,935
and beiges
provide you with that solution.

808
00:40:05,035 --> 00:40:07,338
But wood tones do as well.

809
00:40:07,338 --> 00:40:11,242
And what's interesting about the evolution
of wood tone and as we're starting

810
00:40:11,242 --> 00:40:14,545
to see stains
kind of come back and grow in popularity,

811
00:40:14,545 --> 00:40:17,915
the way I like to describe them
is, is if you think about the forest floor

812
00:40:17,915 --> 00:40:20,918
and you can think about the forest floor
in any season, but

813
00:40:20,918 --> 00:40:23,921
if you're walking through nature
and you look at the forest floor,

814
00:40:23,921 --> 00:40:27,792
you're going to get a little bit
of gold influence, but you're going to get

815
00:40:27,792 --> 00:40:33,664
a lot of sort of those nuttier browns,
those more neutral brown bases.

816
00:40:33,731 --> 00:40:36,600
You're going to see a lot of gray
or gray influence.

817
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,771
You're going to see some like think
overall bark or those natural elements.

818
00:40:40,838 --> 00:40:42,072
I mean, it truly is.

819
00:40:42,072 --> 00:40:44,074
It sounds cliche to continuously talk

820
00:40:44,074 --> 00:40:48,145
about how nature influences
our color choices, but

821
00:40:48,212 --> 00:40:52,149
those natural elements, there's a reason
that we are all drawn to them

822
00:40:52,149 --> 00:40:57,254
and their esthetic is so calming because
of colors mix really well together.

823
00:40:57,254 --> 00:40:59,390
So if you think about this evolution
of browns

824
00:40:59,390 --> 00:41:02,393
as they come back there
on the mid to light range,

825
00:41:02,393 --> 00:41:03,627
we've certainly been through

826
00:41:03,627 --> 00:41:07,598
the phase of gray stains, though
even those gray stains have evolved

827
00:41:07,598 --> 00:41:11,602
into gray brown stains, which make them
kind of khaki or more neutral.

828
00:41:11,602 --> 00:41:16,106
And so it just plays into that
need for that kitchen palette

829
00:41:16,106 --> 00:41:20,811
to be something that is grounding that
a lot of other colors can play off.

830
00:41:20,911 --> 00:41:25,216
Cabinet is cabinets are one solution
that homeowners have to think about

831
00:41:25,316 --> 00:41:30,955
when they're creating a new space
or remodel or an existing space.

832
00:41:31,021 --> 00:41:33,057
There's other big contenders there, right?

833
00:41:33,057 --> 00:41:36,060
The flooring,
the countertops, your wall color.

834
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:38,529
So all of these things have to play
well together.

835
00:41:38,529 --> 00:41:42,800
And so creating neutrality on cabinets
and flooring

836
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,171
is probably a higher priority than is on
things that could change out a lot faster.

837
00:41:47,171 --> 00:41:50,040
Like what color or countertop

838
00:41:50,107 --> 00:41:52,142
so. I think that's a big reason

839
00:41:52,142 --> 00:41:54,311
why we're starting
to see some of this evolution

840
00:41:54,311 --> 00:41:57,114
and why people believe
that wood stains are so classic

841
00:41:57,114 --> 00:42:01,752
because they just complement other primary
finishes within the home space,

842
00:42:01,852 --> 00:42:04,822
whether it's the kitchen
or any other room for that matter.

843
00:42:04,822 --> 00:42:08,492
How might the door style impact
the design there?

844
00:42:08,559 --> 00:42:08,792
You know,

845
00:42:08,792 --> 00:42:13,831
there's a lot of opinions there around
how much impact the door style has.

846
00:42:13,898 --> 00:42:18,435
Certainly in the past, we've seen trends
where we have a lot of differentiation

847
00:42:18,435 --> 00:42:22,740
and or styles, 
a lot of personal decision around

848
00:42:22,740 --> 00:42:28,445
how that esthetic can influence
your overall design impression of a space.

849
00:42:28,512 --> 00:42:34,685
A lot of that historical insight around
how people utilize different door styles

850
00:42:34,685 --> 00:42:39,023
has been gone for so long that
I don't even know that it's that relevant

851
00:42:39,023 --> 00:42:42,026
to talk about anymore
because as we're starting to see

852
00:42:42,059 --> 00:42:46,230
fingers crossed move out of the era of
just the shaker door, as I alluded

853
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:50,167
to, your early set up again,
I know if you put it out in the universe

854
00:42:50,167 --> 00:42:54,371
enough, eventually it's going to latch on
and you're going to see a shift.

855
00:42:54,438 --> 00:42:55,706
So I'm just doing my part.

856
00:42:55,706 --> 00:43:00,411
But the evolution of door style
preference is still something clean.

857
00:43:00,411 --> 00:43:05,082
Generally speaking, it's a clean esthetic,
but I think the key is that it doesn't

858
00:43:05,149 --> 00:43:09,019
drive a single style influence.

859
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:13,891
It really has to be flexible that
you could adopt multiple style influences.

860
00:43:13,891 --> 00:43:14,725
And what I mean by

861
00:43:14,725 --> 00:43:18,662
that is the thing about Shaker is
you could dress that traditionally,

862
00:43:18,662 --> 00:43:21,632
you could dress that rustic,
you could dress that modern.

863
00:43:21,699 --> 00:43:23,067
It can create balance

864
00:43:23,067 --> 00:43:26,937
when you're trying to create
or drive a specific style esthetic.

865
00:43:27,004 --> 00:43:30,641
Most of the evolution of what
we're seeing and other door profiles

866
00:43:30,774 --> 00:43:32,676
have similar appeal.

867
00:43:32,676 --> 00:43:35,579
They're neutral enough
that they do create

868
00:43:35,579 --> 00:43:40,651
a little bit of enhanced detail
or definition, but they're not so style

869
00:43:40,651 --> 00:43:44,021
specific or so style driven
that you still don't have the ability

870
00:43:44,121 --> 00:43:48,058
to dress them up, dress them down,
dress them sideways, depending on where

871
00:43:48,058 --> 00:43:53,564
you want to drive your overall design
impression when the space is completed.

872
00:43:53,564 --> 00:43:56,266
So it's sort of the evolution
of the shaker

873
00:43:56,266 --> 00:44:00,004
and it's such a it's
such a unique thing to watch because

874
00:44:00,070 --> 00:44:03,707
now because Shaker has become
so substantial, I often hear people

875
00:44:03,707 --> 00:44:07,978
describe just about any other door style
that's gaining in popularity

876
00:44:07,978 --> 00:44:12,316
right now as a version of Shaker,
when really they're not.

877
00:44:12,316 --> 00:44:16,820
Shaker is a specific type of style
and construction, and the evolution of

878
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:21,925
that is really creating new styles of door
profiles that we've never seen before.

879
00:44:22,026 --> 00:44:23,627
But they all have a similar feel,

880
00:44:23,627 --> 00:44:27,531
and I think that's why people easily
classify them as versions of Shaker,

881
00:44:27,631 --> 00:44:32,970
because they all have the same intent,
all of the intent of some small impression

882
00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:36,974
of design enhancement,
but not an overall influence

883
00:44:36,974 --> 00:44:40,978
for the for the total package,
meaning you've got that flexibility still.

884
00:44:41,045 --> 00:44:44,448
Okay, look in your crystal ball
or just to the paperwork

885
00:44:44,448 --> 00:44:45,315
that you have in front of you.

886
00:44:45,315 --> 00:44:46,984
But what can we expect from spring

887
00:44:46,984 --> 00:44:50,487
and not just in 2024,
but maybe even a little bit beyond that?

888
00:44:50,487 --> 00:44:54,558
Is there any sort of unveils
that you can sort of tease for us here?

889
00:44:54,658 --> 00:44:56,794
Sure, of course. I mean, that's
what we're doing today, right?

890
00:44:56,794 --> 00:44:58,429
We're just teasing with different things.

891
00:44:58,429 --> 00:45:00,097
I like the enticement here.

892
00:45:00,097 --> 00:45:05,469
I think the first one is really
about innovation around technology.

893
00:45:05,636 --> 00:45:09,273
You know, I've kind of mentioned it
a little bit already, but

894
00:45:09,273 --> 00:45:13,010
products are just a part of the value
proposition of what we bring to market

895
00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:18,248
for our customers, consumers alike, 
and continuously looking at

896
00:45:18,382 --> 00:45:25,089
how we can improve the service package
with technology about making it easy for

897
00:45:25,155 --> 00:45:26,790
both our customers and the

898
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:31,195
end user to do business with us
quite easily and efficiently.

899
00:45:31,261 --> 00:45:36,033
And a lot of this is driven by changing
or evolving consumer expectations, right?

900
00:45:36,033 --> 00:45:40,971
Anybody who's done a remodel project
or a new construction project knows

901
00:45:40,971 --> 00:45:45,242
that it's very labor intensive
as far as project management side,

902
00:45:45,242 --> 00:45:48,512
you know, knowing when your products
are going to arrive, planning the whole

903
00:45:48,512 --> 00:45:52,082
front end of the process
before you even order your products.

904
00:45:52,149 --> 00:45:54,518
These are not challenges
unique to kitchen and bath.

905
00:45:54,518 --> 00:45:57,788
These are challenges unique
to any kind of home renovation project.

906
00:45:57,788 --> 00:46:01,692
So certainly continuing
to innovate on solutions

907
00:46:01,692 --> 00:46:04,995
that enable us to be a stronger partner
to both our customers

908
00:46:04,995 --> 00:46:08,398
and to the ultimate consumer
of our goods.

909
00:46:08,398 --> 00:46:11,168
So more to come on where we evolve that.

910
00:46:11,168 --> 00:46:15,973
We certainly have a strategy
where we will have some close in unveiling

911
00:46:15,973 --> 00:46:20,277
of new technology, but it's an ongoing
initiative for our organization.

912
00:46:20,277 --> 00:46:25,582
So many years to come we will be unveiled
ring and highlighting new ways

913
00:46:25,582 --> 00:46:29,486
to do business that make it easier
and more efficient for everyone.

914
00:46:29,486 --> 00:46:31,655
So that's the first one.

915
00:46:31,655 --> 00:46:35,259
And the second one
that I would say really around color.

916
00:46:35,492 --> 00:46:37,394
And you heard me
talk about this a little bit earlier

917
00:46:37,394 --> 00:46:39,229
because I'm very excited about this.

918
00:46:39,229 --> 00:46:44,535
I think it's been a long time coming for,
you know, the creative component

919
00:46:44,535 --> 00:46:48,105
of of our solutions to continue

920
00:46:48,105 --> 00:46:51,575
to offer something different
than just the white shaker.

921
00:46:51,642 --> 00:46:56,713
And this doorway has now been opened
to bring color back into our space.

922
00:46:56,814 --> 00:46:59,316
And that doesn't just mean paint colors
or optics.

923
00:46:59,316 --> 00:47:02,186
It's the whole evolution
of where it stands going to go.

924
00:47:02,186 --> 00:47:06,123
And, you know, we've had to take a break
from that for a couple of years,

925
00:47:06,123 --> 00:47:08,258
you know, coming out of the pandemic.

926
00:47:08,258 --> 00:47:11,461
But we're really full speed ahead
focusing on that again.

927
00:47:11,461 --> 00:47:14,565
And as there are
some very exciting things on the horizon.

928
00:47:14,565 --> 00:47:18,168
So I can't wait to we start bringing
those things to the market.

929
00:47:18,268 --> 00:47:18,602
and as I

930
00:47:18,602 --> 00:47:23,173
always say to my best friend, feel free
to test those colors and new styles

931
00:47:23,173 --> 00:47:27,344
in my kitchen when you remodel,
you know, just, just spitballing ideas.

932
00:47:27,344 --> 00:47:29,246
They're offering it up.

933
00:47:29,246 --> 00:47:32,082
So there's never any shortage
of those kinds of volunteers.

934
00:47:32,082 --> 00:47:35,786
So darn it to do well.

935
00:47:35,786 --> 00:47:37,421
Stephanie, so much appreciate

936
00:47:37,421 --> 00:47:39,990
you taking the time to join us today
and share your insights with us.

937
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:40,691
It sounds great

938
00:47:40,691 --> 00:47:44,361
and we look forward to seeing it
and including perhaps the celebration

939
00:47:44,361 --> 00:47:47,364
of the demise of the shaker cabinets
somewhere in the future.

940
00:47:47,397 --> 00:47:50,267
And fingers crossed. Right.

941
00:47:50,267 --> 00:47:52,035
Stephanie, thank you so much.

942
00:47:52,035 --> 00:47:53,270
Yeah, thank you, Sue.

943
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:55,873
Thank you for joining us on the Sauce
podcast.

944
00:47:55,873 --> 00:47:56,473
Please like it.

945
00:47:56,473 --> 00:47:59,243
Subscribe to us
wherever you get your podcasts.

946
00:47:59,243 --> 00:48:01,612
Plus follow us on social media.

947
00:48:01,612 --> 00:48:05,082
Check out our website at Prosource
Wholesale dotcom and visit

948
00:48:05,082 --> 00:48:09,086
your local Prosource wholesale showroom
for all your home remodeling needs.