1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,968 2 00:00:07,968 --> 00:00:11,500 - Welcome to the Let's Talk CJ podcast. 3 00:00:11,500 --> 00:00:14,380 I am your host, Dr. Pat Nelson, a member 4 00:00:14,380 --> 00:00:17,140 of the Department of Criminal Justice at Minnesota State 5 00:00:17,140 --> 00:00:18,760 University, Mankato. 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,850 Thank you for joining us, as we explore different topics 7 00:00:21,850 --> 00:00:24,670 about criminal justice and also profile 8 00:00:24,670 --> 00:00:26,230 current and retired professionals 9 00:00:26,230 --> 00:00:28,370 from the criminal justice system. 10 00:00:28,370 --> 00:00:30,070 We hope you learned something new things 11 00:00:30,070 --> 00:00:33,820 about these topics and amazing people, so please enjoy. 12 00:00:33,820 --> 00:00:37,540 Thank you for joining us today for this episode of Let's Talk 13 00:00:37,540 --> 00:00:42,040 CJ, as we talk with retired Lieutenant Jody Nelson, who 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,380 spent about 25 years in law enforcement 15 00:00:44,380 --> 00:00:48,010 and was really part of that first wave of women joining 16 00:00:48,010 --> 00:00:50,050 law enforcement in the 1980s. 17 00:00:50,050 --> 00:00:53,920 She served as a dispatcher at the Itasca County Sheriff's 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,860 Office in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, then 19 00:00:56,860 --> 00:01:00,410 a part time police officer in Pierz, Minnesota. 20 00:01:00,410 --> 00:01:04,010 Then she served as a federal police officer for the Federal 21 00:01:04,010 --> 00:01:07,730 Protective Service stationed at Fort Snelling, which covered 22 00:01:07,730 --> 00:01:10,140 the entire Twin Cities area. 23 00:01:10,140 --> 00:01:13,070 Finally, she joined the Minneapolis Police Department 24 00:01:13,070 --> 00:01:18,590 in January of 1986 and retired in May of 2006. 25 00:01:18,590 --> 00:01:22,400 And for full disclosure, in case I slip, she is my mother, 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,490 and I'm very proud of her and consider her a mentor. 27 00:01:25,490 --> 00:01:28,910 And she was married to a law enforcement officer 28 00:01:28,910 --> 00:01:32,070 and has a father that was a law enforcement officer. 29 00:01:32,070 --> 00:01:35,300 So if I'm a blue blood, she is definitely a blue blood. 30 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:38,630 So thank you for joining us, Jody. 31 00:01:38,630 --> 00:01:41,510 So can you start with telling us, 32 00:01:41,510 --> 00:01:45,476 how did you decide to get into law enforcement? 33 00:01:45,476 --> 00:01:46,450 - OK. 34 00:01:46,450 --> 00:01:50,600 Well, you know, my dad was a police officer, 35 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,630 and he was a deputy Sheriff in Adams County, Colorado. 36 00:01:55,630 --> 00:02:01,720 And then we moved to Alaska, and he was a police officer 37 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,840 in Seward, Alaska. 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,550 It was one of those things that I wanted to be like my dad, 39 00:02:09,550 --> 00:02:14,170 so being in law enforcement was one of those things, 40 00:02:14,170 --> 00:02:17,620 but you have to take into consideration 41 00:02:17,620 --> 00:02:24,950 this was late '60s, early '70s, and women in law enforcement 42 00:02:24,950 --> 00:02:26,840 really wasn't the thing. 43 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,550 But I had met my future husband, who 44 00:02:31,550 --> 00:02:34,670 was a military policeman when he was stationed 45 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:37,550 at Fort Richardson, Alaska. 46 00:02:37,550 --> 00:02:43,480 I met him in Seward, and we then got married. 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:49,600 When we married, he had become a conservation officer, or a game 48 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,420 warden, back in those days, in Minnesota where he was from. 49 00:02:55,420 --> 00:03:02,080 We moved to Pierz because that was his duty station. 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:10,190 Back in the day, as I call it, being the wife of a game 51 00:03:10,190 --> 00:03:14,450 warden, you answered the phone. 52 00:03:14,450 --> 00:03:17,870 If your husband was out and working 53 00:03:17,870 --> 00:03:21,440 and those type of things, you were basically his dispatcher. 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,190 Because everybody would call the house and go, oh, yeah, 55 00:03:25,190 --> 00:03:27,950 we've got a deer that was hit by a car. 56 00:03:27,950 --> 00:03:29,360 Can you come pick it up? 57 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,800 Or it's still alive, can you come and take care of it? 58 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,440 Those type of things. 59 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:41,120 So being a wife of a conservation officer 60 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,890 also gives you a lot of the law enforcement type of background. 61 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:50,350 - So I just want to clarify, so when you say back in the day, 62 00:03:50,350 --> 00:03:53,200 we're talking about the early 1970s, right? 63 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:53,805 - Yes. 64 00:03:53,805 --> 00:03:55,600 - Yeah, OK. 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,030 - Yes. 66 00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:05,170 Unfortunately, he was killed in the line of duty in 1975, 67 00:04:05,170 --> 00:04:12,310 and from there, I was still trying 68 00:04:12,310 --> 00:04:16,149 to figure out what I wanted to do with my life and everything. 69 00:04:16,149 --> 00:04:24,190 And the Sheriff of Itasca County was a retired game warden 70 00:04:24,190 --> 00:04:27,700 that I knew, and when a dispatcher's position 71 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:33,130 came open, I asked if it would be possible 72 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:35,440 if I could take that position. 73 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,220 And he said, sure, no problem. 74 00:04:39,220 --> 00:04:43,540 Dispatcher did not need to have any kind of education 75 00:04:43,540 --> 00:04:47,140 because didn't have any education at that point in time 76 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:50,800 and everything, and it worked well 77 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:55,240 because I was the night dispatcher, so that my kids, 78 00:04:55,240 --> 00:05:00,250 they had a babysitter who stayed with them, while I worked, 79 00:05:00,250 --> 00:05:02,980 and I worked the night shift, and I took care of my kids 80 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:05,230 during the day. 81 00:05:05,230 --> 00:05:08,690 One of the best stories that I can tell you 82 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:11,870 about being a dispatcher, because this goes back 83 00:05:11,870 --> 00:05:17,420 to women in law enforcement, was that one night, a lady 84 00:05:17,420 --> 00:05:20,570 had called and wanted a deputy. 85 00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:24,625 And at that time, the deputies went home at 2:00 o'clock 86 00:05:24,625 --> 00:05:25,250 in the morning. 87 00:05:25,250 --> 00:05:28,490 There was no reason to have a deputy on from 2:00 88 00:05:28,490 --> 00:05:32,910 until 7:00 because there was very few calls. 89 00:05:32,910 --> 00:05:35,570 And if you needed them, you called them out. 90 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:38,900 Anyway, a little, old lady-- 91 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:42,230 you could tell by her voice that she was a little old lady 92 00:05:42,230 --> 00:05:45,410 and that called and said, I need to have a deputy. 93 00:05:45,410 --> 00:05:49,490 And it was just a matter of she wanted 94 00:05:49,490 --> 00:05:52,200 to talk to somebody at that point in time. 95 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,270 And I said, well, unfortunately, I'm 96 00:05:56,270 --> 00:05:58,880 the only one who is on duty right now. 97 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,260 You can talk to me. 98 00:06:00,260 --> 00:06:05,420 And she goes, well, if you're the only one who's 99 00:06:05,420 --> 00:06:09,953 there that I can talk to, this county is really falling apart. 100 00:06:09,953 --> 00:06:12,475 101 00:06:12,475 --> 00:06:16,160 - But you were basically, you were the entire county law 102 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,340 enforcement from 2:00 AM to 6:00 AM 103 00:06:19,340 --> 00:06:21,410 until the deputies came back on then. 104 00:06:21,410 --> 00:06:24,200 - That's correct. 105 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:28,550 Plus I was also the jailer, because it was a dispatcher 106 00:06:28,550 --> 00:06:32,360 jailer position, so anybody that was in jail 107 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,590 was also my responsibility and everything. 108 00:06:37,590 --> 00:06:40,400 But like I said, I chuckled about that for many years, 109 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,330 because you could tell that she was going, you're a female. 110 00:06:44,330 --> 00:06:47,180 I just-- that's not right. 111 00:06:47,180 --> 00:06:49,700 We're in big trouble if it's a female who's 112 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:55,730 actually responsible here for our county and everything. 113 00:06:55,730 --> 00:07:01,272 - So then how did you end up going to the position in Pierz? 114 00:07:01,272 --> 00:07:03,380 - OK. 115 00:07:03,380 --> 00:07:07,280 Because of-- let's see. 116 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:08,450 How do you put this? 117 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:12,230 Because of my life and that type of thing, 118 00:07:12,230 --> 00:07:16,130 I had decided that instead of living 119 00:07:16,130 --> 00:07:20,570 in Grand Rapids and that type of thing, that I'd rather be back 120 00:07:20,570 --> 00:07:26,300 in Pierz, where I had lived for five years with Russ, 121 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:32,690 my husband, and I had friends there and that type of thing. 122 00:07:32,690 --> 00:07:40,370 My kids were only four, four, and two 123 00:07:40,370 --> 00:07:46,430 when we moved to Pierz and everything. 124 00:07:46,430 --> 00:07:51,350 Well, once I got to Pierz and I lived in Pierz for about 125 00:07:51,350 --> 00:07:54,810 a year, I guess it was, and once again, 126 00:07:54,810 --> 00:07:57,500 being familiar with the law enforcement 127 00:07:57,500 --> 00:08:01,970 people there, the chief of Pierz, Herman Hoheisel, 128 00:08:01,970 --> 00:08:07,670 had approached me and said, would you like to become-- 129 00:08:07,670 --> 00:08:13,760 and this was in 1980. 130 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,850 He asked if I would like to become a part-time police 131 00:08:16,850 --> 00:08:17,640 officer. 132 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,040 And I said, oh, that would be perfect. 133 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:25,340 This is what I'm looking for and everything because part time is 134 00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:26,930 supposed to mean part time. 135 00:08:26,930 --> 00:08:33,169 And you work when the chief tells 136 00:08:33,169 --> 00:08:35,010 you and that type of thing. 137 00:08:35,010 --> 00:08:41,039 And it was five or six hours, maybe three or four times 138 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,770 a week, which worked out well. 139 00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:48,360 Once again, in Minnesota, to be a part-time police officer, 140 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,980 you didn't have to have the education requirement. 141 00:08:52,980 --> 00:09:02,310 You had to do a certain number of hours of continuing 142 00:09:02,310 --> 00:09:05,400 education, but it wasn't that you 143 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,840 had to have at least a two-year degree 144 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,410 and have to go through skills and all 145 00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:12,820 of those kind of things. 146 00:09:12,820 --> 00:09:16,680 So like I said, the part-time position worked out perfectly 147 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:18,900 for me and everything. 148 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:24,780 And the thing there was that it got 149 00:09:24,780 --> 00:09:28,890 to be that the chief went, oh, this is great. 150 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:29,910 I've got Jody. 151 00:09:29,910 --> 00:09:32,160 She'll work anytime I ask her to, 152 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,800 and it basically became I was working the full-time position, 153 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,670 and he was working the part-time position. 154 00:09:41,670 --> 00:09:49,200 After an incident where he ended up in trouble and everything 155 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,880 like that, I went this is absolutely ridiculous. 156 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,550 There's no reason that I should be doing this. 157 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:58,230 So I might as well get the education 158 00:09:58,230 --> 00:10:04,870 so that I can actually work full time for a department. 159 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:10,060 And trying to do logistics with kids and everything 160 00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:14,770 like that, I made arrangements with my sister, who 161 00:10:14,770 --> 00:10:18,970 lived in Wisconsin, to live with her, 162 00:10:18,970 --> 00:10:27,730 while I went to school, because Waukesha Technical Institute 163 00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:31,300 had a law enforcement program. 164 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:40,330 So I picked up the girls, and we moved to Wisconsin, 165 00:10:40,330 --> 00:10:45,890 and that only lasted about six months, no not even six months, 166 00:10:45,890 --> 00:10:46,390 a semester. 167 00:10:46,390 --> 00:10:47,770 - A semester, yeah. 168 00:10:47,770 --> 00:10:50,590 - It was a semester and everything, 169 00:10:50,590 --> 00:10:53,980 and I decided that this just isn't working. 170 00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:55,270 I can't live with my sister. 171 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:58,900 I'm sorry, and everything. 172 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:06,130 So I made an application to Hennepin County-- 173 00:11:06,130 --> 00:11:07,750 - Hennepin Technical College. 174 00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:10,090 Hennepin Technical College. 175 00:11:10,090 --> 00:11:12,610 It's called Hennepin Technical College now. 176 00:11:12,610 --> 00:11:13,860 That's the name of it now. 177 00:11:13,860 --> 00:11:17,020 - OK, yeah, but I think it was called Hennepin Community 178 00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,490 College back at that time. 179 00:11:18,490 --> 00:11:20,350 Anyway, whatever. 180 00:11:20,350 --> 00:11:23,590 But I got an application, and I got 181 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:27,940 accepted into the two-year law enforcement program. 182 00:11:27,940 --> 00:11:33,070 I basically put the two-year program into a year. 183 00:11:33,070 --> 00:11:38,560 And once I got through the program there, 184 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,520 a position for the Federal Protective Service 185 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,970 came available out at Fort Snelling. 186 00:11:45,970 --> 00:11:47,720 - OK, I'm going to stop you for a second. 187 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,520 How many women were in your class during college? 188 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:52,510 Do you remember? 189 00:11:52,510 --> 00:11:53,680 Were there a couple? 190 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:56,770 Were there a handful, anything like that? 191 00:11:56,770 --> 00:12:00,520 - You know, I really don't remember. 192 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:05,470 I was so focused on I need to get this done, 193 00:12:05,470 --> 00:12:09,280 and going to school night and day and all those other kind 194 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:14,950 of things, really, I can't tell you how many. 195 00:12:14,950 --> 00:12:17,505 There was probably a handful, but I don't know for sure. 196 00:12:17,505 --> 00:12:20,540 - So we know you looked up to your dad. 197 00:12:20,540 --> 00:12:22,300 How did your dad react when you told him 198 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,190 you were going to school for law enforcement? 199 00:12:24,190 --> 00:12:27,095 200 00:12:27,095 --> 00:12:35,230 - Actually, he was very proud of me becoming a police officer, 201 00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:39,460 but other than that, he really didn't say anything in regards 202 00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:40,520 to it. 203 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,840 But like I said, he was proud that I became a police officer. 204 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,090 - Yeah, I can just say from personal experience 205 00:12:49,090 --> 00:12:50,890 he held that very close to his vest 206 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:52,840 until he was much older in his life, 207 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,010 about how proud he was of both Jody and myself. 208 00:12:57,010 --> 00:13:00,700 OK, so why was the Federal Protective Service 209 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:03,150 position appealing to you? 210 00:13:03,150 --> 00:13:07,390 - Because the Federal Protective Service, 211 00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:10,720 it liked the idea that I had a two-year degree, 212 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,620 but it didn't require me to have a two-year degree, 213 00:13:14,620 --> 00:13:21,040 but the other thing that it did is it sent me to FLETC, 214 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,740 down in Georgia, which basically, 215 00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:27,650 is the federal government skills course. 216 00:13:27,650 --> 00:13:31,930 - Yes, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center 217 00:13:31,930 --> 00:13:33,745 is what FLETC is, so Yep. 218 00:13:33,745 --> 00:13:42,410 - Yes, and basically what that did is, they paid my skills. 219 00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:47,230 And once I came back, it meant I could take the Reciprocity 220 00:13:47,230 --> 00:13:51,670 Test with Minnesota to become qualified as a Minnesota police 221 00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:52,480 officer. 222 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,500 - So you took kind of a step-wise path getting those 223 00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:00,040 education requirements and skill requirements, but you got it. 224 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,020 You got to the point where you could 225 00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:05,000 be licensed in Minnesota if you took the Reciprocity test. 226 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,770 That was good. 227 00:14:06,770 --> 00:14:08,600 So when you were down at FLETC, do you 228 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:12,140 remember being with other women, or was it mostly men? 229 00:14:12,140 --> 00:14:12,815 Do you remember? 230 00:14:12,815 --> 00:14:13,790 - No. 231 00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:25,690 Actually, at FLETC, in my class, I think we had five females, 232 00:14:25,690 --> 00:14:30,020 and like I said, being with the federal government, 233 00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:33,040 they were from all over the United States. 234 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,190 So there wasn't anybody else from Minnesota 235 00:14:36,190 --> 00:14:38,080 who was in my FLETC class. 236 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,125 - Do you remember how big your class was? 237 00:14:41,125 --> 00:14:44,205 Was there about 50 in your class? 238 00:14:44,205 --> 00:14:50,850 - No, I would say that there was maybe 40, at the most. 239 00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:52,430 I don't even think it was that much. 240 00:14:52,430 --> 00:14:55,200 - The only reason I ask is that historically, 241 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,420 from that very first wave of, really, 242 00:14:57,420 --> 00:14:59,760 women entering law enforcement in the 1980s, 243 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,490 even through today, we are only seeing 244 00:15:02,490 --> 00:15:05,190 a really steady 12% female. 245 00:15:05,190 --> 00:15:09,390 So having five females in your FLETC class 246 00:15:09,390 --> 00:15:11,580 in a class of 40 or 50 is still holding 247 00:15:11,580 --> 00:15:13,560 right at that same number that we see. 248 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:17,112 It's just amazing we haven't increased that historically. 249 00:15:17,112 --> 00:15:17,820 - That's correct. 250 00:15:17,820 --> 00:15:19,980 - So you came back and worked with FPS, 251 00:15:19,980 --> 00:15:21,480 and I hope you don't mind, I'm going 252 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,990 to skip a little bit of FPS, although what do you think 253 00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:30,250 was the most challenging part or unique part of that job? 254 00:15:30,250 --> 00:15:36,350 - Basically, with FPS was the fact 255 00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:42,080 that I was the only one out there, because I work nights. 256 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,210 And once again, I was the only one 257 00:15:44,210 --> 00:15:47,360 out there for all of the Twin Cities areas 258 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,660 for the federal buildings and that type of thing. 259 00:15:51,660 --> 00:15:57,380 So once again, it's that they put you out there 260 00:15:57,380 --> 00:16:00,920 and say, do your job and do as you're expected, 261 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,910 and it's still the fact, like you said, 262 00:16:04,910 --> 00:16:08,330 is that there wasn't that many females in law enforcement. 263 00:16:08,330 --> 00:16:11,270 264 00:16:11,270 --> 00:16:12,770 So I'm going to digress for a second 265 00:16:12,770 --> 00:16:15,590 because before we get to Minneapolis. 266 00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:18,650 I always say this because I am much taller than my mom. 267 00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:22,730 When they talk about women in law enforcement, 268 00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:26,670 one of the criticisms for a long time was, they're too small. 269 00:16:26,670 --> 00:16:28,040 They're not strong enough. 270 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,070 And my mom is 5' 3" on a really good day 271 00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:33,650 with the right shoes, right? 272 00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:37,220 And I'm about 5' 10", so I've got my mom on height, 273 00:16:37,220 --> 00:16:43,212 but did you ever feel like your size was a disadvantage? 274 00:16:43,212 --> 00:16:47,420 - No, I never felt my size was a disadvantage, 275 00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:51,200 and one of the reasons is is because when I was a part-time 276 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,810 police officer in Pierz, one of the educational things that I 277 00:16:56,810 --> 00:17:01,190 had done was doing a self-defense class. 278 00:17:01,190 --> 00:17:05,480 And everybody else that was in the class 279 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,950 were guys and had decided that, well, we'll 280 00:17:09,950 --> 00:17:13,490 show Jodi you know what this is all about. 281 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:16,099 Well, the first guy that came at me-- 282 00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:20,720 because I had taken enough, I knew 283 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,780 enough of how to protect myself and everything, 284 00:17:23,780 --> 00:17:27,500 and the pointers that they were giving 285 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,040 and everything like that. 286 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,110 So I just leaned down, through the guy over my shoulder, 287 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:34,730 and he ended up flat on his back, 288 00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:36,800 and everybody laughed and had a good time. 289 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,960 And after that, they went, don't mess with her, 290 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,310 because she knows how to take you down. 291 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:48,000 So like I said, but that's where it was. 292 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,030 And my size had never really-- 293 00:17:51,030 --> 00:17:53,580 I never really thought anything about it. 294 00:17:53,580 --> 00:17:58,230 I'm not a little, petit person and everything. 295 00:17:58,230 --> 00:18:02,940 I'm short, but I'm stocky and everything. 296 00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:08,130 But I think that where a lot of the times that some 297 00:18:08,130 --> 00:18:11,550 of the criticism comes in about the females 298 00:18:11,550 --> 00:18:17,130 are the ones that are 5' 2" and weigh less than 100 pounds, 299 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:19,590 that you're going, oh, anybody could pick her 300 00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:21,690 up and throw her wherever. 301 00:18:21,690 --> 00:18:22,950 - Right. 302 00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:26,100 But there's definitely defensive tactics and things 303 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:28,290 that people any size can do. 304 00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:31,410 I mean, size does not make the police officer. 305 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,630 Size does not make a good police officer. 306 00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:35,610 Well, thank you for letting me cut in on that. 307 00:18:35,610 --> 00:18:40,030 I just wanted anybody listening to have a visual of that. 308 00:18:40,030 --> 00:18:42,120 So why Minneapolis? 309 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,010 How did you end up in Minneapolis? 310 00:18:44,010 --> 00:18:47,390 - Well, one of the things is working 311 00:18:47,390 --> 00:18:50,060 for the federal government, they can transfer you 312 00:18:50,060 --> 00:18:54,830 anywhere they decide to, and I did not 313 00:18:54,830 --> 00:19:00,620 want to leave Minnesota, and unfortunately, I 314 00:19:00,620 --> 00:19:03,650 did not have enough seniority for when they started 315 00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:05,450 moving people out of Fort Snelling, 316 00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:13,040 because they were downsizing, to be able to stay there. 317 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:18,620 And Minneapolis was hiring, and so I applied to Minneapolis, 318 00:19:18,620 --> 00:19:26,570 and it was one of those things that I had experience, 319 00:19:26,570 --> 00:19:29,330 I had the education, I already had skills, 320 00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:31,400 and those were the type of things 321 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,786 that they were looking for at Minneapolis and hiring. 322 00:19:34,786 --> 00:19:39,605 - So how many women were in your class when you got hired? 323 00:19:39,605 --> 00:19:41,850 - You should have asked me this beforehand, 324 00:19:41,850 --> 00:19:43,280 so that I could have counted. 325 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:44,540 - It's OK. 326 00:19:44,540 --> 00:19:48,245 It was probably a handful, right? 327 00:19:48,245 --> 00:19:50,570 - I think it was-- 328 00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:54,230 let's see, it was Nancy. 329 00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:55,745 I think there was six. 330 00:19:55,745 --> 00:19:56,690 - OK. 331 00:19:56,690 --> 00:19:58,963 And what size was your class that got hired? 332 00:19:58,963 --> 00:19:59,630 Do you remember? 333 00:19:59,630 --> 00:20:02,790 334 00:20:02,790 --> 00:20:05,300 - Probably 35. 335 00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:08,070 OK, so yeah, we're still holding at that same percentage, 336 00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:09,200 so all right. 337 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,430 So you get hired. 338 00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:13,160 You start with an Academy in Minneapolis. 339 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,120 Now, I assume all of your Academy cadre officers 340 00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:18,830 and instructors were male, right? 341 00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:20,480 - Yes. 342 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,750 - So anything significant in the Academy 343 00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:27,050 that you can remember or just kind of went through it 344 00:20:27,050 --> 00:20:29,030 and then got out on FTL? 345 00:20:29,030 --> 00:20:35,750 - Well, you also have to realize is I was much older 346 00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:39,050 when I got hired at Minneapolis than most of the people who 347 00:20:39,050 --> 00:20:42,860 were in my class, because when I started at Minneapolis, 348 00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:45,680 I was 34. 349 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:53,060 And being already established in my life, 350 00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:55,730 more so of all of a sudden, people 351 00:20:55,730 --> 00:20:57,800 saying you have to do this and this and this 352 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,810 and this and this, and I'm going, ah, 353 00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:09,700 no, I don't, that I butted heads with the training staff 354 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,560 and that type of thing. 355 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,280 But it's one of those things is you have to be a person, 356 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,920 and you have to stand up if they're doing something wrong, 357 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:27,250 or if it's something that you're going, I can't do that. 358 00:21:27,250 --> 00:21:31,070 They need to figure out that, yes, I'm a female, 359 00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:34,630 and I'm an older female, so what are you going to do in 360 00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:38,410 regards to making things work out just because I'm not 361 00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:46,250 21 years old and I can run five miles without catching a breath 362 00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:47,660 and those type of things. 363 00:21:47,660 --> 00:21:51,730 But like I said, going through the Academy 364 00:21:51,730 --> 00:21:54,850 was a little bit of a challenge on both 365 00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:58,360 my side and the administration side, 366 00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:04,130 but like I said, once I got through it, it was fine. 367 00:22:04,130 --> 00:22:05,720 - I'm just throwing this out here. 368 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,178 I don't know if you know it or not, 369 00:22:07,178 --> 00:22:09,410 you were the only one that was an actual mother 370 00:22:09,410 --> 00:22:12,185 during the Academy for your class, right? 371 00:22:12,185 --> 00:22:13,355 - That's correct. 372 00:22:13,355 --> 00:22:15,590 - Do you know if you were the first one that had 373 00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:18,490 kids to go through the Academy? 374 00:22:18,490 --> 00:22:21,250 Do you know? 375 00:22:21,250 --> 00:22:24,520 Because I mean, most of them came in pretty young 376 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,515 into the Academy setting. 377 00:22:26,515 --> 00:22:29,200 - Yeah. 378 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,720 I never actually thought of that, 379 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,660 but it very well could have been that I 380 00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:37,710 was one of the first ones. 381 00:22:37,710 --> 00:22:42,370 The other females that had came on the Department and that-- 382 00:22:42,370 --> 00:22:46,630 well, Marie, when she came on the department was a mother. 383 00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:48,460 Yeah, she had Amanda. 384 00:22:48,460 --> 00:22:53,590 And that was retired Lieutenant Marie Brzezinski, 385 00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:58,600 and she came on about six months before I did. 386 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,193 But like I said, there was not a whole lot of them 387 00:23:02,193 --> 00:23:03,610 because you're right, most of them 388 00:23:03,610 --> 00:23:06,490 were much younger in regards to when 389 00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:11,080 they came on the department, and they were just 390 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,780 out of school and those type of things. 391 00:23:13,780 --> 00:23:18,310 And even the first females that were hired for Minneapolis 392 00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:24,020 in the middle '70s, late '70s, they 393 00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:26,030 were hired when they were young as well, 394 00:23:26,030 --> 00:23:28,756 that they didn't have families established. 395 00:23:28,756 --> 00:23:29,750 - Yeah. 396 00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:30,960 OK. 397 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,530 So you got through the Training Academy, where most of them 398 00:23:33,530 --> 00:23:35,300 were probably younger than you anyway, 399 00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:38,000 and now, you're going to go out to field training. 400 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,160 And I just want to give some context for anybody 401 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,110 listening to this, is Minneapolis works 402 00:23:42,110 --> 00:23:45,380 rotating shifts, so it was rotating eight-hour shifts, 403 00:23:45,380 --> 00:23:45,980 right? 404 00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:47,870 - Yes. 405 00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:53,207 And you rotated through days, dawns, and middles. 406 00:23:53,207 --> 00:23:53,790 in that order. 407 00:23:53,790 --> 00:23:56,820 - Yeah, so that meant every month, 408 00:23:56,820 --> 00:24:01,080 they would change, not only the hours that they were working, 409 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,200 but maybe their days off. 410 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,060 So you didn't know for sure for the entire year what 411 00:24:06,060 --> 00:24:07,560 your whole schedule was going to be, 412 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,110 and Minneapolis still does this to this day where 413 00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:12,510 you pick your days off. 414 00:24:12,510 --> 00:24:14,730 All right, so let's talk about field training. 415 00:24:14,730 --> 00:24:16,180 How did that go? 416 00:24:16,180 --> 00:24:18,000 What were the challenges with rotating 417 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,730 shifts right away while everybody was getting 418 00:24:20,730 --> 00:24:23,500 used to working with Minneapolis? 419 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,360 - Rotating shifts are a challenge, 420 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,140 no matter where you work, and the thing 421 00:24:31,140 --> 00:24:36,250 is the way the rotation does, it's really hard on your body. 422 00:24:36,250 --> 00:24:41,460 And as you know, that usually middle watch was the worst 423 00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:47,010 because day watch, the kids were in school; 424 00:24:47,010 --> 00:24:51,010 middle watch was 2:00 to 10:00. 425 00:24:51,010 --> 00:24:55,020 So your kids weren't home from school yet. 426 00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:58,140 By the time you got home, they were already in bed, 427 00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:02,460 and it went that way. 428 00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:05,070 And then working dog watch, which was 10:00 at night 429 00:25:05,070 --> 00:25:07,050 until 6:00 in the morning was good 430 00:25:07,050 --> 00:25:11,820 because you'd work the night and then you could sleep the day. 431 00:25:11,820 --> 00:25:18,330 But like I said, and then having to do it every month, 432 00:25:18,330 --> 00:25:23,910 I know that Minneapolis no longer does that rotation. 433 00:25:23,910 --> 00:25:26,830 You get to pick your days off, but you also 434 00:25:26,830 --> 00:25:30,434 bid a shift for a year so that you 435 00:25:30,434 --> 00:25:33,150 know that the shift that you're going to be on 436 00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:36,690 is what you're going to be working for the full year. 437 00:25:36,690 --> 00:25:39,810 It's not that, oh, yeah, this month you're working this, 438 00:25:39,810 --> 00:25:44,300 and this month you're working that type of thing. 439 00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:46,860 Like I said, it's one of those things is, 440 00:25:46,860 --> 00:25:50,450 it's something you want to do, you're going to do it, 441 00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:53,940 and it works out because you want to do it, 442 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:55,760 and I did want to be a police officer. 443 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,750 I thoroughly enjoyed my job. 444 00:25:59,750 --> 00:26:02,780 I would not do anything else, but like I 445 00:26:02,780 --> 00:26:04,640 tell lots of people that go, well, I 446 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,010 want to be a law enforcement officer, you really 447 00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:09,890 need to think about it, because not everybody is cut out to be 448 00:26:09,890 --> 00:26:11,660 a law enforcement officer. 449 00:26:11,660 --> 00:26:13,160 - Right. 450 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,745 So you worked patrol for how long? 451 00:26:16,745 --> 00:26:19,786 - I worked patrol for six years. 452 00:26:19,786 --> 00:26:22,400 - And they were all in the fourth precinct. 453 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:28,310 - And they were all in the north side in the fourth precinct. 454 00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:32,780 When I first started, the precinct 455 00:26:32,780 --> 00:26:36,110 was up on West Broadway. 456 00:26:36,110 --> 00:26:44,660 The locker room had room for four females, I think it was, 457 00:26:44,660 --> 00:26:52,100 and we had, I think, over the shifts, 458 00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:58,640 I think there was probably a total of maybe 12 females 459 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,095 assigned at that point in time. 460 00:27:00,095 --> 00:27:02,750 461 00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:05,930 So like I said, it was one of those things if you're going 462 00:27:05,930 --> 00:27:08,780 and OK, well, our lockers-- 463 00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:14,180 the locker room, like I said, we had lockers for everybody, 464 00:27:14,180 --> 00:27:17,180 but there wasn't a whole lot of room for people. 465 00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:20,390 Where the guys locker room, oh, yeah, hey, 466 00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:23,343 we got all this room, and we got all these lockers and all 467 00:27:23,343 --> 00:27:24,385 that other kind of stuff. 468 00:27:24,385 --> 00:27:28,880 469 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,900 Because that was in '86. 470 00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:39,420 When they moved to the new precinct, which was '88, 471 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:44,520 '89 maybe, I don't really remember, but like I said, 472 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,490 there we had really nice facilities, 473 00:27:47,490 --> 00:27:49,050 we had a place we could shower, we 474 00:27:49,050 --> 00:27:52,770 had plenty of lockers and a locker room 475 00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:54,660 that wasn't quite as big as the guys, 476 00:27:54,660 --> 00:28:00,840 but it was big enough in regards to future additions of females 477 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,660 for the locker room. 478 00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:06,360 - So what did you like about working patrol? 479 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,080 480 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,860 - Actually, I liked working patrol because, 481 00:28:13,860 --> 00:28:16,710 well, no matter what you're doing, 482 00:28:16,710 --> 00:28:19,410 every day was something different. 483 00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:26,520 484 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,840 Let's see. 485 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,130 I had made some really good friends. 486 00:28:32,130 --> 00:28:35,590 I didn't really have-- 487 00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:38,140 I worked with, because Minneapolis always 488 00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:43,180 had two-person squads, they never had one-person squads. 489 00:28:43,180 --> 00:28:46,480 So basically, on the shift, you ended up getting-- 490 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,410 sometimes you were partnered with the same person a lot, 491 00:28:50,410 --> 00:28:52,990 other times you sort of got moved around 492 00:28:52,990 --> 00:28:55,360 from this one to this one to this one, 493 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:00,700 and everything being a female, I ended up 494 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:03,100 getting moved around a lot and getting 495 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:07,900 put with the males that the other guys didn't want to work 496 00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:12,220 with and that type of thing. 497 00:29:12,220 --> 00:29:21,810 One instance was that the mail that I got put with the most 498 00:29:21,810 --> 00:29:27,540 had a body odor, and like you said, 499 00:29:27,540 --> 00:29:30,810 being in a squad car with them on a regular basis 500 00:29:30,810 --> 00:29:32,940 and everything like that, it's one of those things 501 00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:35,505 that you're going, oh, how can I do this? 502 00:29:35,505 --> 00:29:38,280 You hate to complain about things, 503 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,800 and you're sort of going, well, I 504 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,080 can go along with this and everything. 505 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,810 I've always been one that had a squad car window 506 00:29:45,810 --> 00:29:49,620 open all the time, anyway so that didn't bother. 507 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:52,770 Well, it bothered, but it helped that you could keep 508 00:29:52,770 --> 00:29:54,750 the window down and everything. 509 00:29:54,750 --> 00:30:01,240 But when some of the other officers that I worked with 510 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,030 started saying, well, we don't want 511 00:30:04,030 --> 00:30:07,960 to work with him because, oh, my god, the smell and everything 512 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,320 like that, I went, you know, if everybody is complaining, 513 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,350 why hasn't somebody said something to the supervisor 514 00:30:14,350 --> 00:30:17,290 to say something to this person of maybe 515 00:30:17,290 --> 00:30:21,460 you need to do a little bit better hygiene and everything? 516 00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:26,130 Well, since I ended up working with him the most, 517 00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:30,030 I went to the sergeant and I said, could you just 518 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:35,580 talk to him and say, it'd be nice 519 00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:39,270 if you'd take better hygiene. 520 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:44,190 Well, once he got talked to, well then 521 00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:48,360 he told everybody that it was my fault that he got 522 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,250 in trouble, even though everybody else was going, 523 00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:55,410 oh, thank god she said something, 524 00:30:55,410 --> 00:30:58,080 because now we can actually ride in the car 525 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,950 with him, because he listened to it and everything like that. 526 00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:06,420 But like I said, I ended up being the bad guy 527 00:31:06,420 --> 00:31:08,940 because I was the one who actually complained, 528 00:31:08,940 --> 00:31:11,370 and they said, well, it was because she was a female 529 00:31:11,370 --> 00:31:14,790 that she complained, even though all the guys were complaining, 530 00:31:14,790 --> 00:31:17,235 but they wouldn't go to the supervisor. 531 00:31:17,235 --> 00:31:18,040 - Right. 532 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:18,540 Yeah. 533 00:31:18,540 --> 00:31:20,310 Well, that's actually pretty common, 534 00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:22,060 where the one person that says something, 535 00:31:22,060 --> 00:31:24,655 especially if they're a female versus a male. 536 00:31:24,655 --> 00:31:27,085 - Yes, definitely. 537 00:31:27,085 --> 00:31:30,940 - So you worked patrol, and then you took the Sergeant's test. 538 00:31:30,940 --> 00:31:32,590 Why did you take the Sergeant's test, 539 00:31:32,590 --> 00:31:36,976 and what did you hope to do being a Sergeant? 540 00:31:36,976 --> 00:31:39,760 - Like I said, being a little bit older 541 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,250 and that type of thing, the Sergeant, 542 00:31:42,250 --> 00:31:47,350 after being a police officer, the Sergeant is the next rank. 543 00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:51,130 Taking the Sergeant's test was one 544 00:31:51,130 --> 00:31:53,770 of those things of moving up in rank, 545 00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:56,650 where you do different jobs. 546 00:31:56,650 --> 00:31:59,800 You could either become a street supervisor, 547 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,460 you could become an investigator in Minneapolis. 548 00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:07,060 You had to be a Sergeant to be an investigator, 549 00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:12,280 and it was just the natural order of things in regards 550 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:12,790 to it. 551 00:32:12,790 --> 00:32:17,950 Usually most people who do-- 552 00:32:17,950 --> 00:32:22,600 at that point in time, you had to have at least five years 553 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,130 on as a police officer before you could take the Sergeant's 554 00:32:27,130 --> 00:32:31,130 test and everything. 555 00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:36,010 So like I said, it was just a natural sequence in regards 556 00:32:36,010 --> 00:32:37,475 to the job. 557 00:32:37,475 --> 00:32:40,570 - So when you first got promoted to sergeant, 558 00:32:40,570 --> 00:32:42,160 you ended up being an investigator. 559 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,300 What did you investigate? 560 00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:46,500 What did you like being an investigator? 561 00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:54,040 - I was promoted to sergeant, and I became a sex crimes 562 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,020 investigator. 563 00:32:56,020 --> 00:32:58,390 I did four years in sex crimes. 564 00:32:58,390 --> 00:33:01,056 565 00:33:01,056 --> 00:33:02,563 - As an investigator. 566 00:33:02,563 --> 00:33:04,730 It always sounds weird when you say that to somebody 567 00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:08,000 from the outside, but she was an investigator in sex crimes 568 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,890 for four years, yes. 569 00:33:08,890 --> 00:33:13,610 - Yeah, I was an investigator in sex crimes for four years. 570 00:33:13,610 --> 00:33:21,840 During that four years, we had a serial rapist 571 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:28,170 that I was on the task force that we ended up catching him, 572 00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:36,780 and then one of the cases that I had that I was the primary on 573 00:33:36,780 --> 00:33:43,440 and everything was a guy who was breaking into houses 574 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:48,810 in the middle of the night and always had a mask on, 575 00:33:48,810 --> 00:33:52,620 always wore dark clothes and everything, 576 00:33:52,620 --> 00:33:56,550 but he would talk when he was sexually 577 00:33:56,550 --> 00:34:02,880 assaulting the females inside their houses and everything. 578 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:09,570 We actually got a conviction on him, and a lot of it 579 00:34:09,570 --> 00:34:16,929 was because the females could recognize his voice. 580 00:34:16,929 --> 00:34:21,480 So like I said, it was one of those tricky investigative 581 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,750 cases of trying to go, OK, how are you 582 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:27,210 actually going to do this? 583 00:34:27,210 --> 00:34:34,120 Thankfully, we had DNA, so that helped in regards to it. 584 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,120 But like I said, if they wouldn't 585 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,449 have been able to recognize his voices, even with the DNA, 586 00:34:39,449 --> 00:34:41,639 we probably would have had a hard time 587 00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:46,650 because DNA was just coming into play at that point in time. 588 00:34:46,650 --> 00:34:50,370 The DNA was not really trusted to say, 589 00:34:50,370 --> 00:34:54,929 yes, this was positively him, where nowadays, oh, yeah, we 590 00:34:54,929 --> 00:34:55,889 got their DNA. 591 00:34:55,889 --> 00:34:58,890 You're definitely the person who did this 592 00:34:58,890 --> 00:35:01,050 because this is your DNA. 593 00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:04,380 So like I said, that was the other one. 594 00:35:04,380 --> 00:35:09,010 And then one of the other ones that I actually 595 00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:13,540 did that I was primary on and everything. 596 00:35:13,540 --> 00:35:20,280 And I don't brag about this, but when you have a bad cop, 597 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:29,230 something needs to be done, and I ended up 598 00:35:29,230 --> 00:35:32,590 getting a police officer convicted because he 599 00:35:32,590 --> 00:35:37,630 had sexually assaulted a female that he had stopped for drunken 600 00:35:37,630 --> 00:35:40,090 driving, and he sexually assaulted her 601 00:35:40,090 --> 00:35:43,130 in the back seat of the police car. 602 00:35:43,130 --> 00:35:44,920 - And you're right, when you have 603 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,680 a cop that's doing bad things, you have to do the right thing 604 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,470 and stop them, and I agree with that. 605 00:35:50,470 --> 00:35:55,090 - But like you said, once again, this goes back to, well, 606 00:35:55,090 --> 00:35:57,790 she's just picking on him because she's a female 607 00:35:57,790 --> 00:35:59,360 and everything like that. 608 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,107 But like I said, he was-- 609 00:36:04,107 --> 00:36:06,410 - He was convicted of that one. 610 00:36:06,410 --> 00:36:10,580 - He was convicted of it and everything, 611 00:36:10,580 --> 00:36:13,145 because he did some stupid things. 612 00:36:13,145 --> 00:36:15,830 613 00:36:15,830 --> 00:36:19,100 And we had really good evidence because he 614 00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:22,260 was stupid in the way he did things. 615 00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:24,890 But like I said, he may very well have gotten by. 616 00:36:24,890 --> 00:36:30,250 He may very well have gotten by with doing it 617 00:36:30,250 --> 00:36:37,750 if the female hadn't been so adamant and upset that he did 618 00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:44,620 this to her and with him being where we were able to collect 619 00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:48,670 the evidence to show that he actually 620 00:36:48,670 --> 00:36:52,350 did this was very important. 621 00:36:52,350 --> 00:36:54,220 - Yes. 622 00:36:54,220 --> 00:36:57,970 So after sex crimes, where did you go after that? 623 00:36:57,970 --> 00:37:03,490 - After sex crimes, I went to-- 624 00:37:03,490 --> 00:37:07,610 oh, what was it called? 625 00:37:07,610 --> 00:37:10,711 Can you help me out? 626 00:37:10,711 --> 00:37:12,260 - You have to tell me what you did, 627 00:37:12,260 --> 00:37:13,430 and I can tell you what it's called. 628 00:37:13,430 --> 00:37:14,140 I can't remember. 629 00:37:14,140 --> 00:37:18,950 - Oh, where I did the gambling. 630 00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:22,250 - Oh, you did the vice. 631 00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:23,260 No, it was the-- 632 00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:24,665 - Gambling enforcement. 633 00:37:24,665 --> 00:37:27,133 - Gambling enforcement and permits, 634 00:37:27,133 --> 00:37:29,300 and yeah, I don't remember what it's called anymore, 635 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:33,890 but yeah, so the gambling enforcement and the permits 636 00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:36,230 to carry, permits to purchase, that whole area there. 637 00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:39,080 - Yes, and everything. 638 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:44,570 And like I said, that one, it was OK. 639 00:37:44,570 --> 00:37:48,320 It was one of those things that you're going, all right, 640 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,460 it's something different and that type of thing. 641 00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:55,640 But like I said, I didn't think that I did anything outstanding 642 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,970 there, but then I got promoted. 643 00:37:58,970 --> 00:38:00,620 I took the Lieutenant's test, and I 644 00:38:00,620 --> 00:38:02,090 got promoted to lieutenant. 645 00:38:02,090 --> 00:38:04,700 - But before you got promoted to lieutenant, 646 00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:09,270 didn't you get to go to the Southern Police Institute, 647 00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:10,770 or was it after you were lieutenant? 648 00:38:10,770 --> 00:38:11,790 - Oh, yeah. 649 00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:12,880 No, you're right. 650 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,090 Yeah, you're right, actually. 651 00:38:14,090 --> 00:38:17,160 - So can you talk about that process a little bit, 652 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,260 about the Southern Police Institute versus the FBI 653 00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:20,760 Academy? 654 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,270 Because they're both, on par, the same kind of thing. 655 00:38:24,270 --> 00:38:25,500 - OK. 656 00:38:25,500 --> 00:38:29,400 The Southern Police Institute in Louisville, Kentucky. 657 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,800 Usually what the department does is 658 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,960 they will ask people if they would like to attend. 659 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:48,000 It's an administrative course for three months, four months, 660 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,160 maybe, at Louisville, Kentucky, and you 661 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,750 get college credits for going and that type of thing. 662 00:38:57,750 --> 00:39:02,040 They have a selective process of where 663 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,510 they'll take what you have done in the department, what you're 664 00:39:06,510 --> 00:39:10,090 currently doing, where you would like to go on the department, 665 00:39:10,090 --> 00:39:13,150 and then the department decides, OK, this 666 00:39:13,150 --> 00:39:15,760 is the person who gets to go. 667 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:25,930 I got picked to go in 1995, and like I said, 668 00:39:25,930 --> 00:39:28,120 I went down to Louisville in August 669 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,030 and came back versus the last part 670 00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:34,060 of November and everything. 671 00:39:34,060 --> 00:39:41,180 It's the SPI, which is the Southern Police Institute, 672 00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:47,700 is more of an academic type study versus the FBI, 673 00:39:47,700 --> 00:39:51,440 which is more physical. 674 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,420 - Yeah, the FBI Leadership Institute, the Northwestern 675 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:59,600 Police Leadership Institute, and the Southern Police Institute 676 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,800 are very equal, except that SPI does focus a little bit more 677 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,530 on academics, FBI is more physical, 678 00:40:06,530 --> 00:40:08,450 and then Northwestern kind of blends the two, 679 00:40:08,450 --> 00:40:11,755 but they are equal credentials for leadership, absolutely. 680 00:40:11,755 --> 00:40:14,450 - Yes, they are. 681 00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:22,586 So like I said, SPI was a great experience. 682 00:40:22,586 --> 00:40:26,480 You meet people from all over the country, 683 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:35,600 and it gives you more of a perspective of how 684 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:43,330 to be administration, more so than being an investigator 685 00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:47,610 or on patrol or those type of things. 686 00:40:47,610 --> 00:40:50,080 - And it sets you up very well, because then you 687 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,090 were promoted to lieutenant. 688 00:40:52,090 --> 00:40:53,650 Talk about being a lieutenant. 689 00:40:53,650 --> 00:40:56,410 Is it what you expected-- 690 00:40:56,410 --> 00:40:57,100 oh, I know. 691 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,280 Is it what you expected, or was it 692 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,655 different than what you expected? 693 00:41:00,655 --> 00:41:03,260 694 00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:06,380 - Being promoted to lieutenant is, 695 00:41:06,380 --> 00:41:15,350 like I said, one more thing in getting more money, 696 00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:20,600 getting higher in rank in the department. 697 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,540 Because like I said, every promotion you get, you get 698 00:41:23,540 --> 00:41:26,060 paid more for what you do. 699 00:41:26,060 --> 00:41:30,110 Depending on what lieutenant you are 700 00:41:30,110 --> 00:41:32,780 depends on how much workload you are. 701 00:41:32,780 --> 00:41:35,510 If you're a lieutenant on patrol, 702 00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:39,080 it means you have sergeants under you, 703 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,170 as well as officers under you that 704 00:41:42,170 --> 00:41:45,680 being a lieutenant on patrol, your sergeants 705 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,810 do a fair amount of the work. 706 00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:54,980 If you're a lieutenant in investigations, 707 00:41:54,980 --> 00:41:58,940 you're responsible for all of these sergeants that 708 00:41:58,940 --> 00:42:03,080 are working for you, and for the cases 709 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,620 that they're putting together, that it's 710 00:42:06,620 --> 00:42:15,660 a different set in regards to how you work as a lieutenant. 711 00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:21,600 Then if you become a lieutenant in administrative positions, 712 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:27,990 then you're really not a supervisor 713 00:42:27,990 --> 00:42:33,330 like an investigative lieutenant is or a patrol lieutenant is, 714 00:42:33,330 --> 00:42:38,520 but you're responsible for the administrative parts 715 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:39,840 of the department. 716 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,320 - And you spent quite a bit of time in administrative, 717 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,530 but you also were a watch commander at times, 718 00:42:46,530 --> 00:42:49,110 and then you were the lieutenant in charge of K-9. 719 00:42:49,110 --> 00:42:52,530 What was your favorite role as a lieutenant? 720 00:42:52,530 --> 00:42:55,985 721 00:42:55,985 --> 00:42:58,910 - You know, I can't really pick one that was favorite 722 00:42:58,910 --> 00:43:08,980 because I liked all of them that I did, and becoming-- 723 00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:13,560 actually, I was a lieutenant of patrol 724 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,960 before I became a lieutenant of K9. 725 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:17,130 - That's true. 726 00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:21,790 - Because I was at the downtown command and everything. 727 00:43:21,790 --> 00:43:29,130 So like I said, part of the patrol lieutenant 728 00:43:29,130 --> 00:43:38,030 was not my favorite because, unfortunately, happened 729 00:43:38,030 --> 00:43:41,120 to do with discipline of officers and those type 730 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,100 of things become very-- 731 00:43:43,100 --> 00:43:48,850 732 00:43:48,850 --> 00:43:50,020 I don't know. 733 00:43:50,020 --> 00:43:51,990 I can't tell you the right word. 734 00:43:51,990 --> 00:43:55,040 - It comes draining, and it becomes hard. 735 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,100 It does become hard on a person, yes 736 00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:02,980 - And one of the reasons that when I was lieutenant of patrol 737 00:44:02,980 --> 00:44:09,820 at the downtown command was that there was a sexual harassment 738 00:44:09,820 --> 00:44:17,040 suit that I became involved in that had started 739 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:24,540 in the third precinct, and then one of the females 740 00:44:24,540 --> 00:44:27,480 who was involved in that sexual harassment suit 741 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,960 got transferred to the Downtown command. 742 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:38,210 So basically, from there, I ended up 743 00:44:38,210 --> 00:44:47,590 having to deal with that person who did not 744 00:44:47,590 --> 00:44:51,010 want to be at work because of sexual harassment 745 00:44:51,010 --> 00:44:53,320 that had occurred in a different precinct. 746 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,780 Even though it wasn't occurring where 747 00:44:55,780 --> 00:44:59,080 she was currently assigned and everything 748 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,700 like that, she had taken it and went, 749 00:45:03,700 --> 00:45:05,750 I don't want to be there at all. 750 00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:10,930 So like I said, it's one of those things that it becomes 751 00:45:10,930 --> 00:45:15,100 sticky in regards to how it could be handled 752 00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:16,880 and that type of thing. 753 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,330 But you have to handle it the best you can 754 00:45:20,330 --> 00:45:24,135 and going from there. 755 00:45:24,135 --> 00:45:27,160 - And we've often talked, not just myself and you, 756 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,890 but myself and colleagues, how a police department 757 00:45:29,890 --> 00:45:31,030 is like a high school. 758 00:45:31,030 --> 00:45:32,500 There's cliques. 759 00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:33,800 There's gossip. 760 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,530 There's rumors that go around. 761 00:45:35,530 --> 00:45:37,240 And even in a department the size 762 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,780 of Minneapolis, rumors spread and stories 763 00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:43,750 spread, and it's not always accurate information, which 764 00:45:43,750 --> 00:45:45,910 can impact anybody working. 765 00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:48,260 - Yes, very true. 766 00:45:48,260 --> 00:45:50,210 - Well, like you just talked about, 767 00:45:50,210 --> 00:45:55,370 we've heard that very first kind of wave of women 768 00:45:55,370 --> 00:45:58,370 ended up having to sue departments a lot 769 00:45:58,370 --> 00:46:00,290 and that there was a lot of harassment. 770 00:46:00,290 --> 00:46:02,500 Can you talk about your experience? 771 00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:04,430 Did you experience that? 772 00:46:04,430 --> 00:46:06,680 Were you part of anything or the people 773 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,040 in your classes about suing for harassment, or what 774 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,960 was your experience in that realm? 775 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:20,960 - OK, my experience is, no, I didn't know anybody that-- 776 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,200 well, I did know people who sued for sexual harassment. 777 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:25,500 I have to take that back. 778 00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:30,170 But I was a supervisor of that person and everything, 779 00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:34,760 but the people in my class and the people in the classes 780 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,020 before me, as far as I know, there 781 00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:42,440 wasn't anybody in those classes that actually 782 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,230 sued for sexual harassment. 783 00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:53,220 The next wave, the ones that were hired in late '87, 784 00:46:53,220 --> 00:46:59,660 '88, '89, are where the sexual harassment suits actually 785 00:46:59,660 --> 00:47:01,030 started in Minneapolis. 786 00:47:01,030 --> 00:47:03,770 787 00:47:03,770 --> 00:47:07,370 But like I said, I know of them, but it 788 00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:12,680 wasn't that I was truly that associated with them, 789 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:18,860 and it wasn't until I was a lieutenant in '96 790 00:47:18,860 --> 00:47:21,770 that I actually ended up having to deal 791 00:47:21,770 --> 00:47:24,876 with a sexual harassment suit. 792 00:47:24,876 --> 00:47:27,640 - So as we're coming to a close here, 793 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,622 I'm going to ask one last thing, and now, this 794 00:47:30,622 --> 00:47:31,830 is kind of shifting personal. 795 00:47:31,830 --> 00:47:35,610 So your daughter, me, I joined the Minneapolis Police 796 00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:39,930 Department in 1997, and we were the first mother-daughter 797 00:47:39,930 --> 00:47:42,240 to work for the same law enforcement 798 00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:45,240 agency in the upper Midwest that we know of for sure. 799 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:47,860 We don't anywhere else outside of that. 800 00:47:47,860 --> 00:47:51,570 What did you think of me becoming a peace officer 801 00:47:51,570 --> 00:47:53,470 and then working for the same agency? 802 00:47:53,470 --> 00:47:56,280 Did you have any reservations? 803 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,970 - Actually, I was very proud when 804 00:47:59,970 --> 00:48:02,790 you decided that you wanted to become a law enforcement 805 00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:08,250 officer, that you wanted to work for Minneapolis was absolutely 806 00:48:08,250 --> 00:48:11,640 one of those things that I'm going, I can't believe it, 807 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,980 but it's OK. 808 00:48:13,980 --> 00:48:21,950 And we were the first mother-daughter police officers 809 00:48:21,950 --> 00:48:23,030 in Minnesota. 810 00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:27,050 811 00:48:27,050 --> 00:48:30,830 The guys always talk of, well, I'm a third-generation police 812 00:48:30,830 --> 00:48:34,400 officer, and in Minneapolis, there was plenty of them that 813 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,730 were second, third, fourth-generation police 814 00:48:37,730 --> 00:48:40,970 officers, but we were the only ones 815 00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:48,470 that were mother and daughter in Minnesota at that time. 816 00:48:48,470 --> 00:48:50,480 - And I never directly worked for you, 817 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,400 and we never wanted it that way. 818 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,530 I did help with the MDC training, 819 00:48:54,530 --> 00:48:57,200 so we ended up on a couple of scenes 820 00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,810 together because you were the watch commander 821 00:48:59,810 --> 00:49:01,340 and I was a responding officer. 822 00:49:01,340 --> 00:49:03,350 But other than that, we didn't really 823 00:49:03,350 --> 00:49:05,750 interact professionally that way, which 824 00:49:05,750 --> 00:49:07,520 was a good thing, in many ways. 825 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,000 But I was always very proud you were my mom, 826 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,720 and I'm very happy with that. 827 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:17,060 So when you decided to retire, what 828 00:49:17,060 --> 00:49:23,091 did you miss most about the police force after you retired? 829 00:49:23,091 --> 00:49:26,920 - Being in law enforcement, no matter 830 00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,550 what size your department is, they're still all family. 831 00:49:30,550 --> 00:49:40,750 And you make some very good friends and that type of thing, 832 00:49:40,750 --> 00:49:47,470 so it's the missing the camaraderie, basically, 833 00:49:47,470 --> 00:49:49,420 of everybody that you worked with. 834 00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:52,090 Because like I said, there's good, there's bad. 835 00:49:52,090 --> 00:49:53,590 You get along with some. 836 00:49:53,590 --> 00:49:56,830 It's just like having a family, some 837 00:49:56,830 --> 00:49:58,810 get along with, some don't get along with. 838 00:49:58,810 --> 00:50:03,220 But it's still the feeling of that if something happens, 839 00:50:03,220 --> 00:50:06,160 you know they're going to be there for you 840 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:16,040 and that you have some stability in regards to it. 841 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,800 Retiring takes a lot. 842 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,530 For anybody who's thinking about retiring out there, 843 00:50:21,530 --> 00:50:26,900 it takes a lot to get your mind where you can go, 844 00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:29,970 oh, I don't have to go to work today, 845 00:50:29,970 --> 00:50:32,330 and I don't have to worry. 846 00:50:32,330 --> 00:50:37,400 On the news, I don't have to worry about what the news 847 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,010 media is doing, and what's happening 848 00:50:40,010 --> 00:50:42,650 there and that type of thing. 849 00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:46,160 Worrying about something happen to some of your friends 850 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,560 and that type of thing, that never leaves you, 851 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:53,870 but it takes a lot to get your mind set differently 852 00:50:53,870 --> 00:50:57,080 from law enforcement of being able to say, 853 00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,107 I'm retired, and when people go, oh, well, 854 00:51:00,107 --> 00:51:01,190 you were a police officer. 855 00:51:01,190 --> 00:51:03,170 That must have been a very interesting life, 856 00:51:03,170 --> 00:51:05,780 and what did you do and all that other kind of stuff. 857 00:51:05,780 --> 00:51:07,910 As most law enforcement people will 858 00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:11,190 tell you is they don't really talk about their job, 859 00:51:11,190 --> 00:51:15,270 because most people think, oh, it would be interesting. 860 00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:18,495 But once you start telling them, they're going, oh, my god. 861 00:51:18,495 --> 00:51:21,600 862 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,860 So like I said, it's some of those kind of things 863 00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:31,560 that you have to get yourself in a different mindset 864 00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,220 when you retire. 865 00:51:33,220 --> 00:51:35,890 - So we're going to close this podcast. 866 00:51:35,890 --> 00:51:38,080 I'm going to ask you to give some advice. 867 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,650 So I can give a lot of my female students advice 868 00:51:41,650 --> 00:51:43,990 on what it's like to be a female police officer, 869 00:51:43,990 --> 00:51:46,690 but the biggest concern I hear from them 870 00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:49,780 is, hi, I can't be a mother and a police officer, 871 00:51:49,780 --> 00:51:51,830 or it's not fair to the kids. 872 00:51:51,830 --> 00:51:54,970 So if I had a student sitting in front of me who 873 00:51:54,970 --> 00:51:56,800 was concerned about that, what advice 874 00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,235 would you give them about being a peace officer and a mother? 875 00:52:00,235 --> 00:52:04,725 876 00:52:04,725 --> 00:52:09,580 - Being a mother is hard, no matter what profession 877 00:52:09,580 --> 00:52:10,450 you're in. 878 00:52:10,450 --> 00:52:14,420 If you like the profession you're in, 879 00:52:14,420 --> 00:52:22,120 it's going to show your children how life is 880 00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,450 and what they can also do. 881 00:52:25,450 --> 00:52:30,510 I'm a firm believer that being with your-- 882 00:52:30,510 --> 00:52:33,850 you have to let your kids live their lives as well. 883 00:52:33,850 --> 00:52:36,595 You can't be there all the time for them. 884 00:52:36,595 --> 00:52:39,500 885 00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:45,950 They have to be trusted, and let go, 886 00:52:45,950 --> 00:52:52,700 and yes, it is hard being a mom, and you see your kids 887 00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:55,400 and that type of thing. 888 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,730 If they grew up with you being a law enforcement officer, 889 00:52:58,730 --> 00:53:01,880 they're just going to be, oh, well, they're 890 00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,250 a cop, that's what they do, and it's not 891 00:53:04,250 --> 00:53:07,190 a big deal in regards to that. 892 00:53:07,190 --> 00:53:15,530 I know that your sister, Penny, always had a fear of Mom 893 00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:19,070 not coming home, especially since I was a single mom 894 00:53:19,070 --> 00:53:21,890 and that type of thing. 895 00:53:21,890 --> 00:53:28,430 But it's one of those things is, if something-- 896 00:53:28,430 --> 00:53:32,920 I could have been a cook at the school 897 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:36,730 and got hit by a car walking home from the school. 898 00:53:36,730 --> 00:53:42,010 And it's the same thing of if something happened at work, 899 00:53:42,010 --> 00:53:48,175 it's still going to affect you no matter what your job is. 900 00:53:48,175 --> 00:53:50,170 - Yeah, exactly. 901 00:53:50,170 --> 00:53:52,900 Well, thank you for talking with me, 902 00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:55,360 and for everybody that gets to listen to this, 903 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,950 I know we could talk for hours and hours on this, 904 00:53:57,950 --> 00:54:00,260 and we didn't even get a chance to share stories, 905 00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:02,500 including a basketball game and glasses, 906 00:54:02,500 --> 00:54:04,570 but maybe that's for a future one. 907 00:54:04,570 --> 00:54:06,050 But thank you so much. 908 00:54:06,050 --> 00:54:09,520 I am very proud of you and your career and the great mom 909 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,770 that you were, and I appreciate you taking your time 910 00:54:11,770 --> 00:54:13,000 to talk with me. 911 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,520 - And I appreciate you doing this, 912 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,750 but you have to understand I am so proud of you 913 00:54:19,750 --> 00:54:23,890 for what you have done with your 17 years with Minneapolis 914 00:54:23,890 --> 00:54:30,400 and now, number 11 as a teacher of all of those people going 915 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,670 into law enforcement and how well you do it 916 00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:36,355 and how well your students respond to you. 917 00:54:36,355 --> 00:54:37,630 - Oh, thank you. 918 00:54:37,630 --> 00:54:40,930 919 00:54:40,930 --> 00:54:44,350 Thank you for listening to this episode of Let's Talk CJ 920 00:54:44,350 --> 00:54:45,400 podcast. 921 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,640 If you have suggestions for future episode topics, 922 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,320 interviews, or other areas to cover, 923 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:57,340 please email us at criminaljustice@mnsu.edu, 924 00:54:57,340 --> 00:54:59,050 or visit our website. 925 00:54:59,050 --> 00:55:01,430 Join us next time for a new episode, 926 00:55:01,430 --> 00:55:03,840 and thank you for listening. 927 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:08,000