WEBVTT
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Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis  Bader, and this
is the Silvercore Podcast.

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Silvercore  has been providing its
members with a skills and knowledge

00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:22.770
necessary to be confident and proficient
in the outdoors for over 20 years, and

00:00:22.770 --> 00:00:26.790
we make it easier for people to deepen
their connection to the natural world.

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If you enjoy the positive and educational
content we provide, please let others

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know by sharing, commenting, and
following so that you can join in on

00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:39.630
everything that Silvercore stands for.

00:00:40.680 --> 00:00:43.320
If you'd like to learn more
about becoming a member of the

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Silvercore Club and community,
visit our website at Silvercore.ca

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I'm joined today by a man who
have known for many years.

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And I'm excited to introduce him to
this Silvercore Podcast  audience.

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He has been published in the
Harvard journal of law, public

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policy journal of criminal justice,
Canadian journal of criminology,

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government, and policy, and much more.

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He's been an expert witness on firearms
and criminal justice issues in the Senate

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of Canada, the Canadian parliament, the
New Zealand parliament, the Supreme court

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of Canada and the Ontario Supreme court.

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He's accredited as an expert in small
arms control with United nations

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international small arms control
standards, and previously sat on the

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Canadian firearms advisory committee
under our previous federal government.

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Welcome to the Silvercore
Podcast,, Gary maser.

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Thank you very much for having me.

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I'm looking forward to,
uh, enjoyable interview.

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Gary and what you have been
doing over your lifetime.

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Of research for firearms owners and
for, for everybody in, in Canada,

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who has any interest in, uh, in
firearms has been rather immense.

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And I'm kind of curious.

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How you got into this?

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Well, it was, um, really a matter of
me when I was in my early forties.

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Uh, I'd been estranged from
my father for over 20 years.

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Mm.

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Uh, he.

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He, and I were not friendly as a teenager.

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I was a very obnoxious egotistical college
kid and he was a great eight dropout and,

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uh, uh, authoritarian, tyrant and stuff.

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And anyway, at when I turned
21, he gave me a rifle.

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Mm.

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And I was still a, a undergraduate at, at
Berkeley university, California, Berkeley

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mm-hmm  and living with, uh, a gaggle of
roommates that changed every semester.

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So it was totally
inappropriate, I thought.

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And in any case, uh, I didn't know
anything about guns and cared less, so

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I was very obnoxious in rejecting it.

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Hmm.

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Uh, and so when I turned 40, I thought
the good way to get back to, and, and

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start a relationship with my dad was
to pick this rifle up and, and bring

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it home to, to Canada at that time.

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Hmm.

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So.

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That meant a couple of things.

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First of all, I had to figure out what
the laws were and, and that surprised me.

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I thought they were stupid and, and,
and, and, and obnoxious at the time.

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But at the time they were, uh, just
FAC I had to get a, fill out a form

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and get a, a police, uh, screen.

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And that wasn't all that hard.

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Right.

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But it was, it was new to me.

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Uh, but when I went down to the RCMP
in Coquitlam to file the form, the

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fellow behind the, the window, uh,
took it and threw it across the room

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at his piled, a full of papers desk.

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And I thought.

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They don't take this seriously.

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no  and, and the guy limped a
little bit and seemed angry.

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Okay.

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And I guess that reflected
the way the RCMP dealt with

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wounded warriors at the time mm.

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Was to put 'em in paper, shuffling,
useless jobs, they would think.

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Right.

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And so I asked him, uh, how long
will it take to process this?

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Uh . And he said, oh, you
know, a couple of weeks.

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So in a couple of weeks I went back and,
uh, the desk was still full of paper.

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And, uh, I said, I came from my paper.

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Have you done it yet?

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Who were you?

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so he, he rumages through this and
papers are fallen everywhere and he

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pulls it out and he hadn't looked at
it or any of the other ones signed

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it in front of me and gave it to me.

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And that I got my FAC that was

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it.

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He just wanted to let
you wait a couple weeks.

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Well, that

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basically it, he just
didn't wanna be bothered.

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Yeah.

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I don't think there was any plan other
than, you know, you bugged me go away.

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Yeah.

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um, anyway, so I, I, I got it.

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And I went down to California
to pick up the rifle.

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And of course I had to figure out
American rules and California,

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Washington and Oregon rules.

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Yes.

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And import rules and all that.

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And I had no idea eventually I
get it back home and it's laying

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on my, on my, uh, kitchen table.

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And I think what the hell is it?

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How, how I don't understand this
thing, but even before that, uh,

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because I didn't understand guns.

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When I picked it up from my father, he
was so excited to, to let that I cared.

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Oh, that's cool.

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And, and I had to ask
him, dad, what is this?

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Why, why did you want me to have a rifle?

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Mm-hmm, , you know, I'm a student, right.

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And it's kinda awkward.

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Uh, and he launched into this
explanation and I could see he cared.

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I could see this was part
of his life, his culture.

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It was important to him, none of which
I'd ever known or bothered to care about.

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sure.

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And, and, and I, anyway, it
started a relationship with

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my father for the first time.

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And that really, uh, made me
feel good and made him feel good.

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And that probably helped him.

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Do

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you think people would be surprised when
you talk about a gun culture in Canada?

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Cause I've heard some.

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Uh, knowledgeable people, firearms
type people who say, ah, Canada

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doesn't have a GU a gun culture,
which I would highly disagree with.

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Would you?

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Uh, well, my dad grew up in rural,
uh, South Dakota and he, uh, was

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a small town boy, not a, a, a.

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Much outdoorsy guy, but
he did know about guns.

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He did think guns were, were part of, of
growing up and he cared about history.

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So to him, this rifle, which was a German
K 98, and it was a Maer and that's of

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course my family name and his mm-hmm

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So he wanted us to be
linked to this history.

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He wasn't a Nazi German or anything.

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It was just the, the, the
accidental congruent of the

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name  and that it was history.

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And he always explained that to me.

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And so again, when I got back to
Canada and looked at this thing, I

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thought, why did the Germans in world
war II have a world war I rifle?

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Mm.

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Okay.

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Most of the other countries started off
world war II on, on their flat feet.

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Also with world war I weapons,
but they quickly got, got better

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rifles, uh, uh, England, the, the us.

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Uh, France, uh, uh, Russia in Germany
kept up with this ancient thing.

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Why?

00:08:09.719 --> 00:08:10.770
And okay.

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And then how does it shoot?

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Uh, how do I learn?

00:08:14.075 --> 00:08:14.940
How to shoot?

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And so I just started asking all
kinds of questions about guns,

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history, uh, where to go shoot.

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And my curiosity just got outta control.

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no kidding.

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Well, you still seem highly curious on
this because you're still in the field.

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You're still researching.

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You're still looking at history
and you're looking using

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that to look forward as well.

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Well, um, my current work that I'm
I'm, uh, trying to assemble is to

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ask the question, why did Canada
or Canadian elite abandon the.

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To arm yourself in personal defense.

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Mm.

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Both Canada and us were founded, uh,
really by idealistic, uh, uh, Britains,

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both had had ideas about how to be
better than England, but they also

00:09:07.025 --> 00:09:13.745
kept important English traditions and
both believed at, at the founding of

00:09:13.745 --> 00:09:18.365
both countries that they had English
rights, such as arm, self defense.

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Uh, us was revolutionary.

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Canada was more traditional it's even
been called counter revolutionary

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mm-hmm , but essentially they kept the
English traditions, uh, of social class.

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Mm.

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The elite are, should be an are in
control and the commoners should respect

00:09:41.140 --> 00:09:43.655
them and, and follow their betters.

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Mm-hmm  so where the us.

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Uh, thought that the second amendment
was a, a way to protect God, given

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rights of, uh, individual arm protection.

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Canada also believed the same thing.

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Mm-hmm  uh, the first gun control
laws didn't, uh, come into a

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effect until after sir, John A.

00:10:09.608 --> 00:10:14.185
McDonald, uh, died because he
kept them out of parliament.

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Mm.

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He thought that that English rights
included that and the gun control

00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:26.885
that had been proposed would, would
limit that, uh, after he died, the

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permits were mandated, uh, for handgun.

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Usage.

00:10:32.695 --> 00:10:32.725
Mm.

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In other words, anybody who wanted to
walk around town with a handgun had to

00:10:38.275 --> 00:10:46.615
get a, a court permit and, uh, to do that
meant you had to go talk to a judge this

00:10:46.615 --> 00:10:53.245
implies and was meant to imply that only
the better sorts could get such permits.

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Right.

00:10:54.445 --> 00:10:58.195
It's and this, this was
sparked because of Irish.

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Okay, who were not British subjects
of equal importance, as sure.

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Now, you know, this we're saying British
mm-hmm , these are English rights,

00:11:08.625 --> 00:11:13.125
but because Canada was started and run
by Scotts, God forbid that SCOs would

00:11:13.125 --> 00:11:15.074
cut themselves out of their own power.

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Mm-hmm  nobody'd do that.

00:11:17.145 --> 00:11:17.625
No, no.

00:11:17.625 --> 00:11:18.645
Why would you come on?

00:11:19.035 --> 00:11:24.885
But we had Irish canal workers who
were, were carrying guns and they

00:11:24.885 --> 00:11:29.655
were, uh, dangerous, or we were
concerned about them perceived to be

00:11:29.655 --> 00:11:31.485
dangerous, seemed to be dangerous.

00:11:31.485 --> 00:11:34.485
How could these lowly people have firearms

00:11:34.785 --> 00:11:39.105
and, and so that set the
pattern for really, uh, until.

00:11:39.540 --> 00:11:44.760
Today that one needs a permit
in order to carry a gun.

00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:49.500
Uh, and at first you noticed,
we're talking about handguns yes.

00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:50.400
Outside the home.

00:11:50.489 --> 00:11:50.849
Yeah.

00:11:51.239 --> 00:11:55.709
Even the people who pass these gun control
laws thought that these lowly Irish

00:11:55.714 --> 00:11:57.209
had rights to have guns in the home.

00:11:57.479 --> 00:12:02.550
Mm-hmm . And plus we're talking
about developed Canada or,

00:12:02.880 --> 00:12:05.069
uh, Eastern central Canada.

00:12:05.219 --> 00:12:13.079
Mm-hmm  the west had native Indians
or aboriginals and may Sur John a even

00:12:13.079 --> 00:12:15.930
allowed the MayT to have gun rights,

00:12:16.170 --> 00:12:19.380
because like recognize
that God given right.

00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:20.130
Broad.

00:12:20.130 --> 00:12:20.490
Right.

00:12:20.520 --> 00:12:24.300
And, and that, you know, that's one
of those phrases, that'll get some

00:12:24.300 --> 00:12:26.160
people's hackles up, God given.

00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:26.459
Right.

00:12:26.459 --> 00:12:28.949
What do you mean you've got a
God given right to own firearms?

00:12:28.954 --> 00:12:33.209
Well, it's, it's not to own firearms
necessarily as a singular thing,

00:12:33.689 --> 00:12:38.339
but the ability to defend yourself,
I would say is an innate human.

00:12:38.865 --> 00:12:40.275
God given, right.

00:12:40.425 --> 00:12:40.755
It,

00:12:40.755 --> 00:12:41.805
it certainly is.

00:12:41.805 --> 00:12:43.035
It's universal.

00:12:43.125 --> 00:12:43.545
Yes.

00:12:43.814 --> 00:12:47.925
Be before there was government, there
were people who wanted to hurt you

00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:49.964
or animals who wanted to hurt you.

00:12:50.295 --> 00:12:52.785
And you had a, a natural.

00:12:53.220 --> 00:13:00.660
Uh, right to stop someone or something to
hurt you, um, in the English formulation,

00:13:00.660 --> 00:13:06.030
particularly the Canada formulation,
it's the government grant rights.

00:13:07.040 --> 00:13:07.260
Yes.

00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:11.370
And where they came from
originally is not stressed.

00:13:11.760 --> 00:13:15.480
Uh, God just mentioned a few times,
but mm-hmm, it's not part of it.

00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:21.420
The revolutionary Americans make it clear
that rights come first and government's

00:13:21.420 --> 00:13:24.330
job is to protect those rights.

00:13:24.510 --> 00:13:24.810
How did

00:13:25.020 --> 00:13:27.390
Canada fall so far away from that?

00:13:27.810 --> 00:13:28.050
And

00:13:28.050 --> 00:13:31.140
that's the paper I wanted
to, and I am working on.

00:13:31.170 --> 00:13:31.410
Yeah.

00:13:31.530 --> 00:13:36.300
Uh, and gradually this notion
of social class or, or, or

00:13:36.300 --> 00:13:37.920
racism, whatever you wanna.

00:13:38.305 --> 00:13:43.614
Call it, uh, was repeated
at first these things.

00:13:43.824 --> 00:13:48.745
Well, you've gotta remember early
laws were UN unable to be enforced

00:13:48.745 --> 00:13:53.814
mm-hmm . So parliaments would pass
laws year after year and try, or maybe

00:13:53.819 --> 00:13:58.415
not even try, but after a while with
development of, of, uh, better up on a,

00:13:58.415 --> 00:14:03.474
of a better powerful government states
and police, these things were enforced.

00:14:03.805 --> 00:14:05.724
So we have handguns.

00:14:05.755 --> 00:14:09.984
We had no twice in world war
I, the parliament was worried

00:14:09.989 --> 00:14:11.454
about returning soldiers.

00:14:12.115 --> 00:14:13.734
So this is not an ethnic thing.

00:14:13.734 --> 00:14:21.984
This is in the wake of the revolution
in Russia, the, uh, uh, anarchists in,

00:14:21.984 --> 00:14:28.584
in Canada that returning soldiers might
use their firearms, uh, uh, nefariously.

00:14:28.615 --> 00:14:29.064
They were.

00:14:29.610 --> 00:14:31.170
Proper people were concerned.

00:14:31.500 --> 00:14:35.220
So all guns had to get a
permit, long guns included.

00:14:35.790 --> 00:14:37.290
There was such a humane cry.

00:14:37.290 --> 00:14:44.130
People were so upset that, uh, it was,
uh, uh, avoided for British subjects, but

00:14:44.130 --> 00:14:45.900
not for, not for not British it's that

00:14:46.050 --> 00:14:46.290
funny.

00:14:46.290 --> 00:14:51.210
They can send them off to war, be
warriors, protect their rights, protect

00:14:51.210 --> 00:14:54.660
their freedoms, and then come back
and be like, ah, you're kind of scary.

00:14:54.810 --> 00:14:55.560
We're afraid of you.

00:14:56.070 --> 00:14:56.880
Ah, well, that's

00:14:56.880 --> 00:14:57.630
take your teeth out.

00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:03.120
That's traditional, uh, in English,
uh, culture, the soldier is only,

00:15:03.450 --> 00:15:08.400
uh, cared about and supported when
he is needed before and after they're

00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:10.030
dumped on the streets like trash.

00:15:10.485 --> 00:15:13.215
Yeah, it's uh, pretty sad.

00:15:13.215 --> 00:15:14.775
When you think about it, it's, it's

00:15:14.780 --> 00:15:15.765
pretty obnoxious.

00:15:15.765 --> 00:15:16.245
Yes.

00:15:16.305 --> 00:15:24.075
Uh, and then the, in 1934, the RCMP,
uh, uh, registers handguns, right?

00:15:24.345 --> 00:15:25.935
All handguns for everybody.

00:15:25.995 --> 00:15:29.175
But again, permits are, are allowed.

00:15:29.205 --> 00:15:34.635
If you go see, uh, the judge or later
the police, and again, only better sorts

00:15:35.055 --> 00:15:38.955
banks could have these stores could
have these at their place of business.

00:15:39.075 --> 00:15:43.725
Mm-hmm  and, uh, again, you could
have one at, at home, uh, but with

00:15:43.725 --> 00:15:48.765
a permit mm-hmm  uh, so now it's
all per handguns all the time, but

00:15:48.765 --> 00:15:50.925
again, the better sorts get permits.

00:15:50.985 --> 00:15:51.285
And

00:15:52.215 --> 00:15:55.545
why do you think handguns were the,
were the first thing to go after?

00:15:55.575 --> 00:15:59.475
Like, I've got some theories on
this, but, um, I mean they're

00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:03.105
smaller, they're way less powerful
than a, than a rifle would be.

00:16:03.105 --> 00:16:05.755
And, uh, people talk about concealability.

00:16:06.225 --> 00:16:06.515
Okay.

00:16:06.555 --> 00:16:10.010
Well, Uh, what traditionally back
in the day, why do you think they

00:16:10.010 --> 00:16:12.410
thought, okay, handguns are the
thing we should start going after?

00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:21.680
Well, there, there was a, a, a militia
culture Canadians, uh, uh, king or queen

00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:28.490
supporting Canadians anyway, uh, were
encouraged and sometimes forced to be

00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:30.920
in the militia to defend the country.

00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:35.210
And these were long guns and
people had their private guns as

00:16:35.210 --> 00:16:37.370
well as government issued guns.

00:16:37.760 --> 00:16:43.880
So long guns were always tolerable
and up until the seventies long guns

00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:45.350
were not even considered firearms.

00:16:46.040 --> 00:16:46.069
Mm.

00:16:46.910 --> 00:16:49.310
They were not in firearms legislation.

00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:50.150
Interesting.

00:16:50.210 --> 00:16:50.810
That's right.

00:16:51.344 --> 00:16:51.734
Yeah.

00:16:51.915 --> 00:16:55.185
I mean, the province's,
uh, restricted hunting.

00:16:55.395 --> 00:16:55.484
Sure.

00:16:55.484 --> 00:16:57.224
Which, which was a long gun activity.

00:16:57.255 --> 00:17:02.025
Mm-hmm  uh, but the federal government
didn't consider firearms legislation.

00:17:02.625 --> 00:17:11.085
But the thing that fascinates me is that
where the elite abandoned their notion

00:17:11.115 --> 00:17:14.234
of arm, self defense, the public did not.

00:17:14.685 --> 00:17:14.805
Mm.

00:17:15.464 --> 00:17:22.525
Um, my surveys show that, uh,
A majority of almost all social

00:17:22.525 --> 00:17:28.015
groups support the right to defend
themselves with a gun in, in extremity.

00:17:28.165 --> 00:17:32.995
Mm-hmm  so my, my question was, if
you or your family were attacked,

00:17:33.795 --> 00:17:38.065
uh, violently attacked and you needed
to defend yourself, would you use

00:17:38.065 --> 00:17:39.865
a gun if you had, if you had one?

00:17:40.105 --> 00:17:40.495
Yes.

00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:41.725
That's a pretty simple question.

00:17:41.785 --> 00:17:41.965
Yes.

00:17:41.965 --> 00:17:43.165
Pretty straightforward question.

00:17:43.165 --> 00:17:43.315
Yes.

00:17:43.645 --> 00:17:50.095
And people who wanna restrict handguns,
wanna band guns, uh, uh, men, women,

00:17:50.125 --> 00:17:55.015
all provinces, uh, people think
this is a reasonable thing to do.

00:17:55.649 --> 00:17:56.129
Right.

00:17:56.430 --> 00:18:00.810
And cuz fundamentally, you know,
I've had this conversation with

00:18:00.815 --> 00:18:05.399
people before at the end of the day,
everybody is in it for themself, no

00:18:05.399 --> 00:18:09.420
matter how altruistic they can be
there at, there's gonna be some point

00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:11.220
there's gonna be some line in the sand.

00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:11.490
Right.

00:18:11.495 --> 00:18:14.250
And I had a friend over and
she's like, Nope, not me.

00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:14.940
I'm not like that.

00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.520
I said, okay, our house is burning down.

00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:19.110
She said, I didn't have to finish yet.

00:18:19.110 --> 00:18:20.670
She's like, I'm grabbing
my daughter first.

00:18:20.879 --> 00:18:21.090
Right.

00:18:21.570 --> 00:18:22.110
there you go.

00:18:22.139 --> 00:18:22.889
There is a point.

00:18:22.895 --> 00:18:25.980
Some people that point is very close
to their everyday life and they're

00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:27.659
just in it for themselves completely.

00:18:28.290 --> 00:18:31.470
But most people don't think
about these kinds of things.

00:18:31.649 --> 00:18:36.389
And when, uh, they are attacked,
they have to make decisions quickly.

00:18:36.570 --> 00:18:36.750
Yes.

00:18:36.810 --> 00:18:41.820
Uh, decisions are not really prepared
for and sometimes they do it badly.

00:18:42.600 --> 00:18:43.139
So

00:18:44.010 --> 00:18:48.330
part of the, I guess, uh, distrust
of the soldiers, when they

00:18:48.335 --> 00:18:50.670
come back, would that be just.

00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:52.980
And I'm just speculating here.

00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:58.440
Maybe just a deep seated or an
innate fear of a power structure

00:18:58.440 --> 00:18:59.940
that might be imbalanced.

00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:04.230
If the elites say, Hey, we
wanna do something, but maybe

00:19:04.230 --> 00:19:05.250
they won't listen to us.

00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:06.510
And they've got the ability to.

00:19:06.710 --> 00:19:08.060
Fight back if they wanted to.

00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:08.840
Well,

00:19:08.840 --> 00:19:13.520
the, if you, if you look, the early
gun laws were passed by the better

00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:19.130
sorts to defend against concerns
about the not acceptable sorts.

00:19:19.340 --> 00:19:19.610
Right.

00:19:19.610 --> 00:19:25.400
But these were Irish or Italian
or, uh, east European or later on

00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.610
Asians, it was not British subjects.

00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:28.670
Mm.

00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:34.160
Except for post world war I,
where it was returning soldiers.

00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:34.430
Mm.

00:19:34.580 --> 00:19:39.530
Then in the twenties, it was
Chevi the, uh, Winnipeg general

00:19:39.530 --> 00:19:45.080
strike, uh, right after the
communist, uh, revolution in Russia.

00:19:45.380 --> 00:19:51.710
Common turn was, was, was the source
of much concern around the world, uh,

00:19:51.710 --> 00:19:55.940
that who went and the common turn wanted
to formulate revolution everywhere.

00:19:55.990 --> 00:20:04.180
Mm-hmm  um, And then in world war II,
uh, all guns were, uh, uh, registered.

00:20:04.710 --> 00:20:08.550
Although neither these registration
efforts, neither handgun nor

00:20:08.555 --> 00:20:10.920
world war II were very effective.

00:20:10.980 --> 00:20:17.040
Mm-hmm  something like half or, I mean,
numbers are hard to get ahold of sure.

00:20:17.040 --> 00:20:17.190
Sure.

00:20:17.190 --> 00:20:23.700
But, but the various reports or something
like half were, were never registered.

00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:24.120
Mm.

00:20:24.120 --> 00:20:27.420
And then after the war, they,
they, the concerns died down.

00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:31.920
But both these give hints
that the, the government, the

00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:34.170
really doesn't trust anyone.

00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:39.040
Mm-hmm,  not just those
unacceptable new immigrants.

00:20:39.330 --> 00:20:40.240
Right, right.

00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:44.250
Ah, that's a, uh,
interesting world to live in.

00:20:44.250 --> 00:20:48.750
Isn't it , but, and, and some people,
you know, when I, when I first, so

00:20:48.750 --> 00:20:53.520
I I've been, I think I met you when
I was 5, 6, 7 years old, originally

00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:58.140
back at a hack show in, uh, uh,
where were they operating out of?

00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.980
Not the P and E at the time, or was at
the, not the operating engineers hall.

00:21:02.070 --> 00:21:05.010
Uh Renfru they were there
for an big engineers

00:21:05.010 --> 00:21:05.310
hall.

00:21:05.340 --> 00:21:05.620
Yeah,

00:21:05.620 --> 00:21:06.150
yeah, yeah.

00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:07.260
Anyways.

00:21:07.320 --> 00:21:11.100
Um, and I would see people and they'd
have stickers and I see all these

00:21:11.100 --> 00:21:15.990
crazy gun people and the confis, uh,
registration leads to confiscation.

00:21:15.995 --> 00:21:20.070
Everyone would say, and they'd have
all of these theories, but either I'm

00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:23.130
thoroughly in the echo chamber now , or.

00:21:25.290 --> 00:21:27.030
or there is a lot of reality to that.

00:21:27.030 --> 00:21:32.040
And, and there is a oppositional us
against them sort of view between

00:21:32.100 --> 00:21:35.820
those that would make the laws
and those who would own firearms.

00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:42.630
Well, the other thing that I'm discovering
and looking at this history of firearms

00:21:42.635 --> 00:21:47.990
legislation is that while the United
States was set up as a revolutionary

00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:53.610
government, they had this notion
that governments were always anywhere

00:21:53.610 --> 00:21:58.740
everywhere, corruptible, and the way
to fight that was to divide the powers.

00:21:59.070 --> 00:22:04.800
So in principle, executive, legislative
and judicial were separate sources of

00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:09.450
power and, and they should fight with
each other check and balance is the

00:22:09.450 --> 00:22:15.090
phrase, uh, in order to make sure that
that, uh, the people could avoid tyranny.

00:22:15.540 --> 00:22:18.480
Mm, the British parliamentary,
particularly the Canadian

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:19.920
one is very centralized.

00:22:20.594 --> 00:22:24.044
everything is run out of
the prime minister's office.

00:22:24.044 --> 00:22:26.084
He appoints the Supreme court judges.

00:22:26.415 --> 00:22:30.854
He appoints the Senate, he runs the
parliament mm-hmm . So the prime

00:22:30.854 --> 00:22:37.004
minister, uh, in any, uh, political
party is the de facto power.

00:22:37.185 --> 00:22:37.604
Right.

00:22:38.294 --> 00:22:41.175
And that means they can
do whatever they want.

00:22:41.385 --> 00:22:41.834
Mm-hmm

00:22:43.215 --> 00:22:43.514
yeah.

00:22:43.514 --> 00:22:46.695
And it gets interesting when it starts
coming down to property rights in

00:22:46.695 --> 00:22:49.784
general firearms, firearms rates are
one thing that people say, well, I

00:22:49.784 --> 00:22:51.554
don't know, firearms, what do I care?

00:22:51.554 --> 00:22:51.945
Right.

00:22:51.945 --> 00:22:54.645
And someone got shot, or I
heard about it in the news.

00:22:54.645 --> 00:22:55.485
I don't like that.

00:22:55.485 --> 00:22:55.754
Sure.

00:22:55.754 --> 00:22:56.625
Get rid of guns.

00:22:56.625 --> 00:22:58.125
That solves a problem, right?

00:22:58.274 --> 00:23:00.554
Just like banning drugs
gets rid of drug problems.

00:23:00.794 --> 00:23:03.705
Well, and, and that
raises the general issue.

00:23:03.915 --> 00:23:11.385
How does the public form factions in order
to stand up for whatever their concerns

00:23:11.389 --> 00:23:16.844
are and how do these factions have,
have power to influence the government?

00:23:17.775 --> 00:23:21.405
The us has federalism mm-hmm
the states can do things.

00:23:21.405 --> 00:23:25.035
The federal government cannot,
but Canada really doesn't have

00:23:25.035 --> 00:23:26.595
an effective federal system.

00:23:26.985 --> 00:23:34.305
Uh, so there's really very little
tools for any faction to, to, to

00:23:34.305 --> 00:23:35.925
put pressure on the government.

00:23:36.285 --> 00:23:42.945
Uh, perhaps the, uh, sole example,
counterexample it's Quebec, they have

00:23:43.125 --> 00:23:47.835
the only way to win power in Canada is,
uh, get some support from Quebec, right?

00:23:47.895 --> 00:23:54.435
And so Quebec has a hammer that they can
use to ensure that, uh, their wishes,

00:23:54.435 --> 00:23:57.105
their interests are heated to some degree.

00:23:57.615 --> 00:24:03.375
Uh, but the, and the west has always been
treated as a colony of, of central Canada.

00:24:03.405 --> 00:24:07.515
Mm-hmm  it w um, that's really
not very difficult to argue.

00:24:07.605 --> 00:24:07.965
No.

00:24:08.055 --> 00:24:14.385
So how, how do people who, uh,
uh, Wanting to influence the

00:24:14.385 --> 00:24:16.155
government achieve those ends.

00:24:16.185 --> 00:24:17.415
There's there's very little.

00:24:17.774 --> 00:24:20.715
So we get protests about gun laws.

00:24:21.044 --> 00:24:23.264
We get protests about property rights.

00:24:23.264 --> 00:24:27.975
We get protests about COVID and, and
lockdowns and things mm-hmm . But

00:24:28.725 --> 00:24:37.665
with the strong homogeneous opinions
of the elite media universities, big

00:24:37.665 --> 00:24:43.965
business politicians, uh, this is
sometimes called the Lorean elite.

00:24:43.970 --> 00:24:44.135
Right?

00:24:44.139 --> 00:24:44.445
Right.

00:24:44.504 --> 00:24:50.595
Um, if, if they're against you, your
Sol, there's no way to influence this.

00:24:50.595 --> 00:24:51.915
Well says, well,

00:24:53.024 --> 00:24:53.294
wow.

00:24:53.294 --> 00:24:56.445
So many, so many things going
through my ADHD head at the moment.

00:24:56.655 --> 00:24:58.814
But one thing that I find really, really.

00:24:59.295 --> 00:25:05.295
Uh, curious is the fixation of everybody
firearms owners, non firearms owners

00:25:05.295 --> 00:25:13.005
alike on the firearm as a regulation
piece, as opposed to, uh, anything

00:25:13.005 --> 00:25:18.105
else, whether that be, uh, if, if
violence is the issue, why are we

00:25:18.105 --> 00:25:20.055
talking about firearms and not violence?

00:25:20.055 --> 00:25:25.755
And how did firearms become such a,
a demonized entity all into itself?

00:25:25.755 --> 00:25:29.705
And our, our largest massacre
in Canada happened with the

00:25:29.710 --> 00:25:31.125
Jerry can of gas over it.

00:25:31.245 --> 00:25:31.545
What was it?

00:25:31.545 --> 00:25:35.835
The Bluebird club cafe, whatever,
somebody, couple disgruntled

00:25:35.835 --> 00:25:38.535
drunk guys through a Jerry
can of gas down the stairs.

00:25:38.535 --> 00:25:41.565
And anyone can go to a gas
station and get some petrol.

00:25:41.835 --> 00:25:45.975
Anyone can with a driver's license can
rent a vehicle, but we're not hearing

00:25:45.980 --> 00:25:53.475
the hu cry against, uh, vehicles or
gas attacks as we are with firearms.

00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.485
And they don't populate
the news in the same way.

00:25:56.415 --> 00:26:06.045
Well, um, I think part of it goes back
to the original concern about immigrants.

00:26:06.135 --> 00:26:11.685
Mm-hmm , uh, the original notion of
gun control was that the established,

00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:14.535
uh, Brits need to defend themselves.

00:26:15.145 --> 00:26:18.145
Against the uppity new immigrant.

00:26:18.685 --> 00:26:18.715
Mm.

00:26:18.775 --> 00:26:24.325
But since the progressives captured
government in the sixties and seventies,

00:26:24.835 --> 00:26:30.055
immigrants are no longer the, the devil
that they used to be in previous decades.

00:26:30.565 --> 00:26:30.595
Mm.

00:26:31.105 --> 00:26:32.635
Use useful devil.

00:26:32.785 --> 00:26:33.685
Right, right.

00:26:34.165 --> 00:26:39.235
Uh, now they're the thing that we
all need to protect and care about.

00:26:39.565 --> 00:26:46.825
And if you don't honor the pities, you are
a racist, you are a, a misogynist, right.

00:26:46.825 --> 00:26:53.455
You are the insults fly because
now immigrants are used to, as a

00:26:53.975 --> 00:26:56.185
fulcrum, not a, an attack point.

00:26:56.275 --> 00:26:56.725
Right.

00:26:56.725 --> 00:27:05.035
And so all of us are now of concern,
but the progressives are afraid to

00:27:05.035 --> 00:27:10.135
mention that many disproportionately
in the of criminal acts are

00:27:10.135 --> 00:27:11.785
committed by new immigrants.

00:27:11.815 --> 00:27:12.145
Sure.

00:27:12.505 --> 00:27:14.245
And if you look at historically.

00:27:15.465 --> 00:27:18.375
immigration is a giant pain.

00:27:18.675 --> 00:27:22.665
If you immigrated as, as I have
from one country to another,

00:27:22.875 --> 00:27:24.765
it is difficult to adapt.

00:27:25.065 --> 00:27:29.625
Mm-hmm  and from California to British
Columbia is not a large cultural

00:27:29.625 --> 00:27:32.655
different, so to speak the same language.

00:27:32.925 --> 00:27:33.285
Yeah.

00:27:33.285 --> 00:27:33.286
Yeah.

00:27:33.615 --> 00:27:40.065
So to have much of the same west coast
values, uh, when I lived in France,

00:27:40.095 --> 00:27:46.485
uh, I was somewhat more, uh, uh, at
variance to the local culture, but

00:27:46.485 --> 00:27:52.594
again, uh, If you take your family from
one country to another, or you come in

00:27:52.594 --> 00:27:57.425
here as a single adult there's tension,
mm-hmm , there is difficult jobs,

00:27:57.544 --> 00:28:04.445
professional, uh, uh, certificates,
uh, culture, all of these things cause

00:28:04.449 --> 00:28:06.395
difficulties and that hurts families.

00:28:06.605 --> 00:28:11.554
So it is no surprise that immigrants
of whatever ethnicity, the Irish, the

00:28:11.554 --> 00:28:17.675
Italians, the Germans, the Jews, the,
the Asians, the Caribbean, whatever

00:28:17.675 --> 00:28:20.524
you come from, immigration hurts.

00:28:20.735 --> 00:28:25.594
And so obviously there is a higher
crime, uh, uh, rate among immigrants.

00:28:25.685 --> 00:28:29.435
And it, you can show this in the states
where they keep these statistics.

00:28:29.465 --> 00:28:31.865
Mm-hmm  in Canada, they're
afraid to, so they don't.

00:28:32.014 --> 00:28:32.764
Well, that's funny.

00:28:33.395 --> 00:28:33.935
That's funny.

00:28:33.935 --> 00:28:34.054
It is.

00:28:34.084 --> 00:28:34.834
It is funny.

00:28:35.284 --> 00:28:43.230
And if you look at it, uh, um,  Japanese
Americans have a low CR lowest crime rate

00:28:43.230 --> 00:28:45.150
of any ethnicity in the United States.

00:28:45.390 --> 00:28:49.680
These are fourth or fifth generation
Japanese American mm-hmm  their

00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.280
parents or grandparents or great
grandparents have been born in the us.

00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:57.240
And they have a lower crime
rate than, than, than whites or,

00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:03.870
or, or, or Chinese or Filipinos
or, or any other kind of group.

00:29:04.260 --> 00:29:08.670
And why  I, I don't, I don't,
I can't answer that cultural.

00:29:08.675 --> 00:29:09.450
I'm just gonna ask

00:29:09.450 --> 00:29:12.090
it . Yeah, that is interesting.

00:29:12.095 --> 00:29:17.050
And, you know, I guess back in the day,
if they're gonna say all those, those

00:29:17.050 --> 00:29:18.990
are going to say, oh, those, those
dirty immigrants, we're afraid of them.

00:29:18.990 --> 00:29:20.970
We're gonna have to take away
the handguns, but it's not.

00:29:22.350 --> 00:29:23.850
Gonna win us hearts and minds.

00:29:23.850 --> 00:29:27.960
If we say it's, it's the Irish,
we'll just say it's the firearm and

00:29:28.230 --> 00:29:28.860
that's right.

00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:33.780
They're, they're afraid to talk
about ethnicity because, uh, the

00:29:33.785 --> 00:29:42.270
liberals have this, uh, scheme that
unites the highest levels of income.

00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:49.320
The most the, the, the richest people, as
well as the dependent, uh, lowest classes.

00:29:49.650 --> 00:29:50.880
And if they can.

00:29:51.355 --> 00:29:57.415
Succeed in bringing in many groups from
wherever who are now dependent upon

00:29:57.445 --> 00:30:03.055
the, the ruling party for, for jobs
and for access because these immigrants

00:30:03.055 --> 00:30:06.565
came here thinking this was a better
place than wherever they came from.

00:30:06.655 --> 00:30:12.925
Mm-hmm . So now I, I felt grateful
for being admitted to Canada, and

00:30:12.925 --> 00:30:18.294
I felt that I should, I had some
duty to, to, uh, uh, pay the country

00:30:18.294 --> 00:30:20.305
back for allowing me to come.

00:30:20.485 --> 00:30:23.065
And I came from a
relatively privileged place.

00:30:23.305 --> 00:30:27.504
So people from less privileges might
feel even more dutiful mm-hmm . So

00:30:27.595 --> 00:30:29.754
this is a recipe you cannot upset.

00:30:30.024 --> 00:30:35.485
You do not want to insult, uh,
your, your supporters so much better

00:30:35.490 --> 00:30:37.645
to do something that criticizes.

00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:39.890
The supporters of your opposition.

00:30:40.790 --> 00:30:44.960
Mm-hmm  so insult hunters, insult,
target shooters, insult the west.

00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:47.510
Uh, there's no way the
liberals could lose from that

00:30:48.320 --> 00:30:52.220
and by default, they end up painting
their opposition to take into a corner

00:30:52.220 --> 00:30:55.850
where they have to take a stance,
so they can then further demonize.

00:30:56.270 --> 00:31:04.280
And it's, it's funny how, how, how much
of a political tool that firearms and

00:31:04.280 --> 00:31:08.480
firearms owners have become for both
the left and the right that's right.

00:31:08.780 --> 00:31:13.550
I mean, if the right comes in, you're
not gonna see the, uh, uh, OIC or any

00:31:13.550 --> 00:31:15.410
of these things overturned immediately.

00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.950
I would guess it would be closer to the
next election, probably when it comes

00:31:18.950 --> 00:31:19.280
through.

00:31:20.325 --> 00:31:27.015
Well then one, one, um, my first
interest prior to getting interested

00:31:27.015 --> 00:31:29.475
in guns was political marketing.

00:31:29.625 --> 00:31:29.925
Okay.

00:31:29.925 --> 00:31:37.215
My PhD, my studies were always about, uh,
political parties and how to win and what

00:31:37.220 --> 00:31:39.345
strategies were useful and what weren't.

00:31:39.795 --> 00:31:45.015
So when I first got into firearms,
uh, I was besides history.

00:31:45.015 --> 00:31:49.605
I was interested in how is this
a, a, a useful object for the

00:31:49.605 --> 00:31:51.375
political parties to play with?

00:31:51.405 --> 00:31:51.435
Mm.

00:31:51.885 --> 00:31:58.455
And one argument for bill C 68 brought
in by Allen rock and crate in the

00:31:58.455 --> 00:32:03.975
mid nineties was that the progressive
conservatives with Kim Campbell had

00:32:03.975 --> 00:32:10.245
introduced a firearm's legislation that
really appealed strongly to the kinds of

00:32:10.245 --> 00:32:12.165
people, the liberals thought they needed.

00:32:12.885 --> 00:32:12.915
Mm.

00:32:12.915 --> 00:32:12.916
So.

00:32:13.225 --> 00:32:20.185
So Kim Campbell's effort to, uh, pass,
uh, what, what was then called C 17 and

00:32:20.185 --> 00:32:27.024
upgraded the, uh, FAC, uh, and actually
required for the first time a firearm

00:32:27.024 --> 00:32:34.135
safety class and, and, uh, a picture
on the, on the FAC, uh, see, um, one of

00:32:34.135 --> 00:32:37.824
the reasons for this was that they were
afraid of losing their major constituency.

00:32:37.885 --> 00:32:39.084
Mm anti-gun.

00:32:39.115 --> 00:32:44.814
Urbanites, uh, middle, middle class,
uh, white women and immigrants.

00:32:44.844 --> 00:32:44.995
Mm-hmm

00:32:47.185 --> 00:32:51.024
it's you, you know,
looking at how they use it.

00:32:51.024 --> 00:32:56.125
I think nom Chomsky would have something
to say about how, how the media and

00:32:56.125 --> 00:33:01.105
politicians will use that influence
in order to be able to win elections.

00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:07.890
but, you know, even the most recent O I
like you're talking about the bill C 68.

00:33:07.890 --> 00:33:10.680
And I remember when I was going through,
and that was when everyone was like

00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:12.360
registration, Lisa confiscation.

00:33:12.360 --> 00:33:14.340
And I'm like, you know, I think I see it.

00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:14.940
I don't know.

00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:17.640
Oh, it, obviously I see it now.

00:33:17.820 --> 00:33:19.020
I was much younger then.

00:33:19.025 --> 00:33:23.070
And I, some people in the
firearms community, weren't the

00:33:23.070 --> 00:33:24.600
best advocates for themselves.

00:33:24.600 --> 00:33:28.920
And they perhaps came across a little
bit crazy and although well, meaning

00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.880
and well informed, uh, delivering
that message in today's day and age

00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:40.080
is, is an art form, uh, that I think,
um, many people, um, both sides have

00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:44.070
difficulty with, but I, I was looking
so that the Nova Scotia shooting, the

00:33:44.070 --> 00:33:45.750
more recent one that spawned the OIC.

00:33:46.380 --> 00:33:52.470
So that happened, uh, Saturday, April
18th, 2020 by Friday, May 1st, 2020.

00:33:53.159 --> 00:33:56.399
The OIC was introduced the ordering
counsel prohibiting what they

00:33:56.399 --> 00:33:58.590
now call, uh, assault weapons.

00:33:58.590 --> 00:33:58.919
Right.

00:33:58.949 --> 00:34:02.909
And that was 13 days later or 10
working days, or I guess technically

00:34:02.909 --> 00:34:06.389
nine, cuz it was announced on the
10th day that they came up with.

00:34:06.690 --> 00:34:09.540
This new law, essentially.

00:34:10.020 --> 00:34:14.370
And I gotta wonder, can you write
one in nine days or was this sitting

00:34:14.370 --> 00:34:19.560
in the hopper waiting for a, uh,
some sort of a tragedy to occur?

00:34:20.700 --> 00:34:25.410
And if that's the case, why, why wait
if public safety's the issue, right.

00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:32.590
Well, the bureaucracy, uh, is
really what runs the country.

00:34:32.594 --> 00:34:34.330
Mm-hmm  the administrative state.

00:34:34.870 --> 00:34:39.820
This is true in both the us and Canada,
and probably true in most of, uh,

00:34:40.210 --> 00:34:43.600
Westerners, civilized, uh, Europe or Asia.

00:34:44.050 --> 00:34:49.900
Um, and the actual legislation
is written and floated around

00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:52.510
inside Ottawa for decades.

00:34:52.990 --> 00:34:53.020
Mm.

00:34:53.290 --> 00:34:59.470
Uh, Ron, Bassford the, uh,
minister who brought in C 51 in the

00:34:59.470 --> 00:35:06.220
seventies, uh, was what he wrote
was then introduced by Kim Campbell.

00:35:06.430 --> 00:35:06.700
Mm.

00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:12.400
And then Kim Campbell rejected bits
of what he had written that were

00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:19.420
then adopted by Allen rock in C 68
mm-hmm . And, uh, even once it's written

00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:23.710
that's legislation, mm-hmm , then we
have the administrative regulations.

00:35:24.075 --> 00:35:30.585
That actually put the, the, the meat
on the bones and the auditor general

00:35:30.585 --> 00:35:37.964
in 2003, I think criticized the
firearms bureaucracy for moving to

00:35:38.055 --> 00:35:44.924
a zero tolerance, uh, regime so that
any infraction of the firearms rules

00:35:45.194 --> 00:35:51.015
would be severely punished rather than
looking for, uh, dangerous people only.

00:35:51.015 --> 00:35:51.045
Mm.

00:35:51.674 --> 00:35:58.095
So the, the administrative state is what
is out of control in, in both countries.

00:35:58.100 --> 00:36:02.955
Mm-hmm, , uh, the, uh, there is
no way to limit them in Canada.

00:36:03.255 --> 00:36:08.835
There is only this us Supreme court, which
sometimes makes efforts to bring it in.

00:36:09.435 --> 00:36:16.694
Uh, one of their recent decisions,
uh, rolled back, uh, um, a government,

00:36:16.694 --> 00:36:22.275
uh, decision, uh, enforcing, uh,
green regulations on companies.

00:36:23.964 --> 00:36:31.475
They had invented it without the, uh,
support of legislation in Congress.

00:36:31.915 --> 00:36:32.245
Interesting.

00:36:32.275 --> 00:36:36.745
And, uh, the, supposedly the
administration is supposed to administer

00:36:37.045 --> 00:36:39.115
laws that were passed by Congress.

00:36:39.174 --> 00:36:41.305
Mm-hmm,  not just under a broad mandate.

00:36:41.694 --> 00:36:42.145
So

00:36:42.150 --> 00:36:43.285
the civil servants

00:36:44.575 --> 00:36:49.464
, 
uh, well, I mean, there's advantages and
disadvantages to the administrative of

00:36:49.464 --> 00:36:55.225
state, but, uh, the, the goal is for them
to act under with, with restraint and

00:36:55.225 --> 00:36:58.045
honor, mm-hmm, , that's hard, you know,

00:36:58.049 --> 00:37:00.444
I, I can recall a couple
of instances here.

00:37:00.475 --> 00:37:07.615
I remember, um, one, when we were
looking at the, um, uh, the abolition

00:37:07.620 --> 00:37:10.375
of the long gun registry and there was.

00:37:11.685 --> 00:37:13.095
The moratoriums put into place.

00:37:13.095 --> 00:37:17.595
I remember some high ranking civil
servants within the firearms program here

00:37:17.654 --> 00:37:20.805
saying, eh, we're choosing not to listen
to it for now, cuz we've got election

00:37:20.805 --> 00:37:22.395
coming up and we'll see what happens.

00:37:23.055 --> 00:37:23.865
Interesting.

00:37:23.895 --> 00:37:28.395
And I also remember and have it on
video because, uh, I think it was

00:37:28.395 --> 00:37:32.325
minister Blaney was our, uh, public
safety minister at the time where we

00:37:32.325 --> 00:37:35.174
are right now, the podcast studio,
this used to be the head office.

00:37:35.174 --> 00:37:38.654
I've now got a new head office, which
is a 10 minute walk from my house.

00:37:38.660 --> 00:37:39.825
This is a 10 minute drive.

00:37:39.825 --> 00:37:43.365
So trying to keep things kind of
central, but we're doing a firearms

00:37:43.370 --> 00:37:45.585
inspection, couple firearms officers here.

00:37:46.274 --> 00:37:50.625
And there is a question
about the deactivation versus

00:37:51.035 --> 00:37:52.754
disabled versus active.

00:37:52.785 --> 00:37:55.725
And I guess they have a fourth
category which would be destroyed and.

00:37:56.850 --> 00:38:02.730
And there I would have two handguns that
are identical to each other, and they've

00:38:02.730 --> 00:38:06.900
been milled up and drilled out and slide
rails been milled off and holes in the

00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:08.940
chamber and firing pin holes drilled out.

00:38:08.945 --> 00:38:12.390
And I mean to try and get these
things active at any point, you'd

00:38:12.390 --> 00:38:15.630
be, you'd be hard pressed, but one of
them was done before a certain date.

00:38:15.630 --> 00:38:20.340
And the firearms program on their website
says that's deemed as deactivated.

00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:22.170
And one was done after a certain date.

00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:25.530
And they said anything after this
date will be dis deemed as disabled.

00:38:25.950 --> 00:38:30.300
So disabled carrying the same
connotation as a live firearm

00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.290
needing to be registered.

00:38:31.410 --> 00:38:35.250
So I had these two different firearms,
one beside each other, and we're trying

00:38:35.255 --> 00:38:37.710
to figure this out, going back and forth.

00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:42.090
We had the, um, uh, the registrar
actually come to the office at one time

00:38:42.090 --> 00:38:43.500
afterwards to try and figure it out.

00:38:43.505 --> 00:38:47.760
And, but these two people
doing the inspection and.

00:38:48.735 --> 00:38:56.775
They, and I said, look it, I, I talked
to our, um, uh, MP, uh, who was she?

00:38:56.835 --> 00:38:58.575
Uh, her name will come to me anyways.

00:38:58.635 --> 00:39:03.765
Um, she was a lawyer and she was,
um, um, our member of parliament.

00:39:03.765 --> 00:39:05.895
She says, you know, I brought this
up with minister Blaney it's being

00:39:05.895 --> 00:39:07.815
discussed at the ministerial level.

00:39:08.145 --> 00:39:10.215
You just let them know, just hold off.

00:39:10.245 --> 00:39:11.625
We we'll help them out with this.

00:39:11.775 --> 00:39:14.475
We'll we'll find something, but just,
just hold off on making a decision

00:39:14.475 --> 00:39:16.215
right now cuz cuz we're looking at this.

00:39:16.215 --> 00:39:16.455
Right.

00:39:16.515 --> 00:39:19.875
So I, I mentioned that to them and
I said, just so you know, here's a

00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.355
letter I got, they said they're gonna
assist with trying to find something.

00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:25.635
Cuz we've been spending so
long trying to figure it out.

00:39:25.635 --> 00:39:30.285
And this firearms officer looked at me
and says, Travis, in all due respect,

00:39:30.585 --> 00:39:34.305
uh, her name was Carrie Lynn Finley
and he says, uh, and I'll quote him.

00:39:34.305 --> 00:39:36.795
He says, fuck Carrie Lynn
Finley, fuck minister Blay.

00:39:36.825 --> 00:39:37.905
They don't make the laws.

00:39:37.905 --> 00:39:38.415
We do.

00:39:40.060 --> 00:39:43.590
and I said, excuse me,
I don't understand this.

00:39:43.590 --> 00:39:46.980
Can you explain knowing full
well we've got full video and

00:39:46.985 --> 00:39:50.130
audio through the entire place,
which they should as well too.

00:39:50.640 --> 00:39:55.200
And I mean, they really should
know at that point in dealing with

00:39:55.200 --> 00:39:59.250
me, but, um, he goes on to say,
oh, it's called normative process.

00:39:59.250 --> 00:40:02.310
And we create policies and those
policies become the normative

00:40:02.310 --> 00:40:03.840
process of which is applied.

00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:06.870
And then when they create
legislation or regulations, they

00:40:06.870 --> 00:40:08.790
will lean on that normative process.

00:40:08.790 --> 00:40:12.270
And, um, they will defer to us and
see how we generally handle things.

00:40:12.270 --> 00:40:16.310
So we will make, we will tell you how
this is done and they will listen to us.

00:40:17.505 --> 00:40:24.315
So I just sent, uh, minister Blaney over
a copy of that video and it was, well, not

00:40:24.315 --> 00:40:28.395
even 24 hours later, I got his superior
saying he's been pulled from the file.

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.395
He'll never be a firearms officer
dealing with your company again.

00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.155
And, uh, here's our, our apology.

00:40:34.155 --> 00:40:36.705
He's in a phone call and I said, I
hope I'm getting this in writing.

00:40:36.735 --> 00:40:38.505
Oh yeah, yeah, no written coming as well.

00:40:38.505 --> 00:40:40.845
So I got it in writing too, but uh, oh.

00:40:41.085 --> 00:40:46.695
Um, but that mindset I've seen
prevalent within certain areas of

00:40:46.695 --> 00:40:49.455
the civil service because governments
come and go, but the civil.

00:40:49.765 --> 00:40:52.015
Servants will continue forward.

00:40:54.895 --> 00:40:58.555
Well, I, I can tell you
a similar horror tale.

00:40:58.615 --> 00:41:04.734
Um, when I was on the firearms
advisory committee to the public safety

00:41:04.734 --> 00:41:14.430
minister, um, Leading up to the Harper
government's, uh, uh, cancellation

00:41:14.430 --> 00:41:17.670
of, of, of the long gun registry.

00:41:18.150 --> 00:41:22.859
We invited the head of the
firearm center to come by and

00:41:22.859 --> 00:41:24.630
tell us what the problems were.

00:41:24.870 --> 00:41:28.589
And, and he came and said there
was no way to get rid of it.

00:41:28.890 --> 00:41:32.430
It was impossible that
there were too many copies.

00:41:32.485 --> 00:41:37.675
Mm, nobody kept track of where they went,
cuz people would ask and they'd send them

00:41:37.675 --> 00:41:40.825
on and mm-hmm  and so there'd be all over.

00:41:41.185 --> 00:41:45.805
Plus it was an integral part of
the entire computer system mm.

00:41:45.895 --> 00:41:49.915
That it would take years and
years to erase it and change it.

00:41:49.915 --> 00:41:55.525
And he had, I, it's not clear those
two arguments are logically consistent.

00:41:55.525 --> 00:41:58.555
No, , they're not, but
he made both of them.

00:41:58.915 --> 00:41:59.655
And so.

00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:04.640
Six months later, uh, the, the law
was passed and the handgun registry

00:42:04.640 --> 00:42:07.070
was in principle, uh, disappeared.

00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:12.320
And the same fellow came to the same
committee saying he had now erased

00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.300
the whole thing  but didn't exist.

00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:17.330
And thank you very much
for the long gun registry.

00:42:17.335 --> 00:42:17.630
Yeah.

00:42:17.635 --> 00:42:22.310
And, and of course with, uh, the high
river thing, uh, in Alberta where

00:42:22.310 --> 00:42:29.480
the RMP has been accused and there's,
there's some empirical support for using

00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:34.940
a non-existent long gun registry to
go into homes and confiscate firearms

00:42:35.210 --> 00:42:39.800
that they, uh, shouldn't know if there
wasn't a long gone registering it.

00:42:39.830 --> 00:42:43.010
I think that's just the, kind
of the PC way of saying yeah.

00:42:43.010 --> 00:42:44.150
There's some support for it.

00:42:44.600 --> 00:42:49.700
I think based on both of our connections,
we very well know that there is a lot

00:42:49.700 --> 00:42:56.415
of copies of that and it was floating
around, but yes, that's, um, um, And then

00:42:56.475 --> 00:42:59.925
didn't something happen in Quebec there
where, uh, they were able to now retain

00:42:59.925 --> 00:43:04.665
that so-called, uh, destroyed registry
wasn't didn't they have a, uh, well,

00:43:04.665 --> 00:43:08.985
I, I'm never really quite sure
of, of how this worked, but

00:43:08.985 --> 00:43:11.055
there was a sponsored case.

00:43:11.620 --> 00:43:17.350
Uh, that, uh, allowed the
government to keep a copy.

00:43:18.350 --> 00:43:23.560
Uh, I suppose the isolated and right,
and reserved just for this person.

00:43:23.950 --> 00:43:29.440
Plus of course, Quebec did not
destroy its provincial registry.

00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:33.280
And so there's copy that
is linked to that as well.

00:43:33.490 --> 00:43:38.080
So at the very least there's
these, uh, uh, uh, cloistered,

00:43:38.080 --> 00:43:40.180
if you wish copies that.

00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:43.630
Uh, uh, but, but essentially
these are outdated.

00:43:44.050 --> 00:43:49.450
And now with the new C 71 rules
about getting a transfer number

00:43:49.750 --> 00:43:56.080
and leaving the firearms and owners
information, we now have a downloaded,

00:43:56.530 --> 00:44:02.590
uh, uh, long gun registry in the
hands of anybody at a gun show.

00:44:02.830 --> 00:44:06.069
Or anybody transfers
their rifle, large shotgun

00:44:06.069 --> 00:44:07.000
gun, right, right.

00:44:07.930 --> 00:44:08.140
Yeah.

00:44:08.140 --> 00:44:12.340
It's uh, just a registry by a
different name, which carries, uh,

00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.790
especially for the businesses, even
further penalties for businesses

00:44:15.790 --> 00:44:18.040
under the, uh, business regulations.

00:44:18.069 --> 00:44:24.540
And I even have to wonder if that exceeds
the, uh, Uh, I haven't looked at it,

00:44:24.540 --> 00:44:29.280
but privacy laws for retaining data and
information for certain periods of time.

00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:29.640
Right.

00:44:29.640 --> 00:44:33.600
I mean, there, there's so many
conflicting things inside here and to

00:44:33.600 --> 00:44:38.460
what end, I mean, I, I get, I get the
concept that people can say, well,

00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:41.370
okay, so you register your car, so
you should register your firearm.

00:44:41.370 --> 00:44:43.170
Well, you don't really register your car.

00:44:43.170 --> 00:44:43.410
Right.

00:44:43.410 --> 00:44:47.820
I'm registered as a driver and I can
drive my own vehicle if my own back

00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:50.070
40 is I don't need a driver's license.

00:44:50.070 --> 00:44:50.340
Right.

00:44:50.790 --> 00:44:54.150
Well, if, if guns were treated
as cars, we'd have a heck of

00:44:54.150 --> 00:44:55.470
a lot more freedom with our

00:44:55.470 --> 00:44:56.490
guns sure.

00:44:56.495 --> 00:45:01.440
Is, you know, would wouldn't we, um,
I, but I get how some people can try

00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.010
and sell the idea of having a registry
so they know where they all are.

00:45:05.070 --> 00:45:05.370
Right.

00:45:05.370 --> 00:45:07.260
And so if something
goes wrong, Hey, we can.

00:45:07.770 --> 00:45:14.190
But the reality, even the most, even
the most loyal following person to

00:45:14.190 --> 00:45:17.250
that, that dogma would realize that.

00:45:17.940 --> 00:45:19.560
It, it really falls apart.

00:45:19.560 --> 00:45:23.130
The second somebody's doing something
nefarious with a firearm, are

00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:24.840
you gonna say, huh, don't worry.

00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:26.310
I check the, I check the registry.

00:45:26.310 --> 00:45:27.720
They only have one and we got it.

00:45:27.750 --> 00:45:29.190
So we don't have to worry anymore.

00:45:29.190 --> 00:45:32.549
Or you go into a place and you say,
you know, these are some bad dudes

00:45:32.549 --> 00:45:34.920
here, but nobody worry, no guns here.

00:45:34.924 --> 00:45:36.000
We've checked the registry.

00:45:36.630 --> 00:45:36.840
right.

00:45:37.200 --> 00:45:37.920
Uh, wow.

00:45:38.700 --> 00:45:44.400
I remind you that, uh, there's a lot
of data that suggests something like

00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:51.630
half of all the people who own guns
in the nineties, Never got around

00:45:51.630 --> 00:45:54.090
to registering or getting a license.

00:45:54.270 --> 00:45:54.600
Yes.

00:45:54.605 --> 00:46:01.350
So, uh, a recent Angus Reed poll, uh,
and if you look at their demographics

00:46:01.350 --> 00:46:06.150
at the bottom of their, their website,
uh, you can see that the number of

00:46:06.150 --> 00:46:12.360
firearms owners is roughly twice the
number of people with, uh, Baals mm-hmm

00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:16.410
So, and this is a public opinion poll.

00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:20.790
These people are admitting
to, uh, unknown person on the

00:46:20.790 --> 00:46:23.490
telephone  that they have a firearm.

00:46:24.540 --> 00:46:24.870
You'd be

00:46:24.870 --> 00:46:28.380
surprised at how many times
I'm at political functions.

00:46:28.380 --> 00:46:30.299
Politic is, oh, Hey Travis.

00:46:30.299 --> 00:46:31.740
I, I know what you do.

00:46:31.745 --> 00:46:33.810
I've learned what you do
through talking to you now.

00:46:33.810 --> 00:46:36.120
And they'll say, oh, I
probably should get my license.

00:46:36.120 --> 00:46:38.910
Cause I, you know, I've got this
firearm under my bed for X amount of

00:46:38.910 --> 00:46:44.700
time or a number of people that just
readily in, in positions of authority

00:46:44.705 --> 00:46:46.810
or power and they will view it.

00:46:47.790 --> 00:46:48.390
Rightly.

00:46:48.390 --> 00:46:51.900
So is something that's rather innocuous.

00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:52.230
Okay.

00:46:52.230 --> 00:46:53.880
So I got a gun under my bed who cares?

00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:54.870
It's not hurting anybody.

00:46:54.870 --> 00:46:56.460
I'm not doing anything
nefarious with this.

00:46:56.460 --> 00:46:57.540
I'll get myself licensed.

00:46:57.540 --> 00:46:59.340
And what's the worst
that could happen to me.

00:46:59.700 --> 00:47:04.050
Well, firearms owners know based on the
training and being in it, what's the

00:47:04.050 --> 00:47:05.670
worst that can ha can happen to you.

00:47:05.670 --> 00:47:09.540
Well, if you don't even have your license
and you're driving and you get pulled

00:47:09.540 --> 00:47:10.800
over, you get a ticket, but you know what?

00:47:10.805 --> 00:47:11.670
They'll rip that ticket up.

00:47:11.670 --> 00:47:15.300
If you come within a couple days and show
'em your license and you get a failure

00:47:15.390 --> 00:47:17.400
to produce and it's all gone, we're good.

00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:19.169
Your firearms license.

00:47:19.229 --> 00:47:20.790
You'd be looking at jail time.

00:47:20.850 --> 00:47:22.500
I mean, it's you, it's pretty

00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:23.250
serious.

00:47:23.640 --> 00:47:29.399
Well, there it is not just guns,
but in many aspects of life, most

00:47:29.399 --> 00:47:34.500
people just don't realize how much,
uh, they're putting themselves at

00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.520
risk by giving away information
about themselves on the internet.

00:47:38.520 --> 00:47:44.520
Mm-hmm  by buying things or selling
things, uh, of all sorts mm-hmm  uh,

00:47:44.520 --> 00:47:50.370
and people either are naive or
trusting or ignorant or all three.

00:47:50.669 --> 00:47:55.379
Uh  and, and just don't think
that they're doing anything wrong.

00:47:55.379 --> 00:47:59.609
I've I've heard people say,
well, I've I have nothing.

00:47:59.669 --> 00:48:01.049
I've done nothing wrong.

00:48:01.290 --> 00:48:06.540
So I should have no fear for a police
to come in my house and search it

00:48:06.540 --> 00:48:08.759
for drugs or search it for guns.

00:48:08.790 --> 00:48:10.439
Cuz I know there's none there.

00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:10.830
Sure.

00:48:10.950 --> 00:48:15.240
Uh, they don't understand
that police have, uh, various.

00:48:15.819 --> 00:48:20.200
Uh, goals in their own life
that may very well think of you

00:48:20.200 --> 00:48:23.350
as expendable and plant drugs.

00:48:23.710 --> 00:48:24.310
Uh,

00:48:24.310 --> 00:48:26.170
I, how would never happen, Gary?

00:48:26.290 --> 00:48:26.980
Plant drugs?

00:48:26.980 --> 00:48:27.819
Are you kidding me?

00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:28.299
Wow.

00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:33.870
Um, in, in my teenage years, I
remember, uh, being at this party,

00:48:33.930 --> 00:48:38.910
uh, where there was beer available
and I was, uh, 18 and beer.

00:48:38.970 --> 00:48:44.310
The, the legal age was 21 and I was
pulled out of the party, stuck in the

00:48:44.310 --> 00:48:47.100
back of a police car and then pulled out.

00:48:47.100 --> 00:48:51.810
And the, and the police said they
found, uh, a weapon in the backseat

00:48:51.810 --> 00:48:53.700
and he was gonna charge me for it.

00:48:54.270 --> 00:48:56.790
and I said, I'm an 18 year old drunk.

00:48:56.790 --> 00:49:00.990
I'm not . And, and I just laughed at him.

00:49:00.990 --> 00:49:01.200
Yeah.

00:49:01.200 --> 00:49:02.279
But I mean, I don't know.

00:49:02.339 --> 00:49:04.170
I mean, again, I was naive, uh, sure.

00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.890
Uh, I, I knew it wasn't mine and
therefore it was not my problem.

00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:08.279
Right.

00:49:08.279 --> 00:49:09.960
But it really was my problem.

00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:10.020
Yeah.

00:49:10.049 --> 00:49:13.560
If he had wanted to, I could
have been through courts and,

00:49:13.799 --> 00:49:15.390
and through all sorts of trouble.

00:49:15.930 --> 00:49:19.290
Uh, so he, he dropped it that disappeared.

00:49:19.290 --> 00:49:20.730
There was no problem, but.

00:49:21.715 --> 00:49:25.525
There's no reason for
that to happen every time.

00:49:25.525 --> 00:49:26.035
No.

00:49:26.125 --> 00:49:30.505
And you know, uh, back behind me
here, cameras, don't pick it up, but

00:49:30.505 --> 00:49:34.865
there's a, uh, a nice little apology
letter on the wall from the RCMP.

00:49:35.305 --> 00:49:37.105
I think you may have read
that one at one time.

00:49:37.105 --> 00:49:40.645
I think it was in the newspapers,
but I don't May 16th, 2008.

00:49:40.645 --> 00:49:45.925
You think the prior to then I always,
I was a golden child with the, um,

00:49:46.045 --> 00:49:50.575
with the, uh, firearms program and
we're dealing with, uh, several

00:49:50.785 --> 00:49:53.785
Vancouver police, new west Abbotsford.

00:49:53.875 --> 00:49:55.755
Um, I'm transit, please.

00:49:55.755 --> 00:49:59.745
I was working with them on
a day to day basis, old CFO.

00:49:59.745 --> 00:50:04.065
I was at his retirement party working with
the firearms program on a regular basis.

00:50:04.065 --> 00:50:06.675
And you know, that mentality,
I've done nothing wrong.

00:50:06.795 --> 00:50:07.275
Right?

00:50:07.335 --> 00:50:08.835
What do I gotta worry about?

00:50:09.135 --> 00:50:10.545
Well, I had done nothing wrong.

00:50:10.575 --> 00:50:13.755
I'm more than happy to help them out,
but I didn't stop them from putting my

00:50:13.755 --> 00:50:16.065
life through turmoil for eight years.

00:50:16.065 --> 00:50:18.825
I don't think I've ever actually
talked about this on the, uh, on the

00:50:18.965 --> 00:50:23.565
podcast, but it's, uh, and I won't go
into the great detail of it, but from

00:50:23.565 --> 00:50:28.515
a cautionary tale, for those who would
say, if you've not done nothing wrong,

00:50:28.520 --> 00:50:29.955
what do you have to be concerned about?

00:50:30.495 --> 00:50:35.265
Well, eight years is a long time of your
life and a lot of money to be spending

00:50:35.265 --> 00:50:39.045
on multiple different lawyers who never
got the chance to see a day in court.

00:50:39.675 --> 00:50:42.375
Um, To really prove their medal.

00:50:42.645 --> 00:50:47.355
Because the second we finally got
down to the courtroom, the, um, uh,

00:50:47.895 --> 00:50:50.985
department of justice says, okay, you
went, you get everything you want.

00:50:51.435 --> 00:50:53.265
And he says, I wanna
shake your hand, Travis.

00:50:53.625 --> 00:50:53.895
right.

00:50:54.285 --> 00:50:55.605
I'm like, no, I'm not shaking your hand.

00:50:55.605 --> 00:50:57.585
He's my life miserable for eight years.

00:50:57.585 --> 00:51:00.345
He's like, I've never met somebody
with your brinkmanship, a term,

00:51:00.350 --> 00:51:01.905
which I hadn't heard before then.

00:51:01.905 --> 00:51:06.435
But, uh, I said, uh, you gotta
realize there was no brink for me.

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.055
This isn't a game, right.

00:51:08.060 --> 00:51:09.975
I you'd already pushed me over the edge.

00:51:10.275 --> 00:51:11.595
I would sell everything.

00:51:11.600 --> 00:51:12.105
I owned.

00:51:12.105 --> 00:51:13.515
I'd live in a cardboard box.

00:51:13.520 --> 00:51:15.585
My wife and kids might dislike me for it.

00:51:15.585 --> 00:51:18.465
But before admitting to
something I didn't do.

00:51:18.525 --> 00:51:23.475
And in the end, the, um, firearms
officer responsible for the business

00:51:23.505 --> 00:51:27.765
turns out he had not one, not two but
three competing business interested.

00:51:27.765 --> 00:51:33.134
Two of which were incorporated
the, uh, Police officer the

00:51:33.165 --> 00:51:34.605
so-called lead investigator.

00:51:34.605 --> 00:51:38.235
He ends up getting criminally
charged and convicted.

00:51:38.235 --> 00:51:42.555
Although some of the, um, points
were dropped off, but he was in

00:51:42.560 --> 00:51:46.335
possession of prohibited, firearms,
uh, drugs that were just kind of

00:51:46.335 --> 00:51:48.285
disappearing from the property office.

00:51:48.290 --> 00:51:50.865
And like all of these people,
if they're interested, they

00:51:50.865 --> 00:51:51.975
could read the news articles.

00:51:51.975 --> 00:51:55.965
I don't need to go down that sort
of, uh, negative wormhole, but there

00:51:55.965 --> 00:52:03.165
is a, um, there is a point to all
of that, which is those who think

00:52:03.225 --> 00:52:04.575
it could never happen to them.

00:52:05.055 --> 00:52:08.025
Those who say I've got
nothing to worry about.

00:52:08.029 --> 00:52:08.325
Right?

00:52:08.325 --> 00:52:09.295
I've done nothing wrong.

00:52:09.445 --> 00:52:11.055
This just affects other people.

00:52:12.525 --> 00:52:14.595
That's all well and good until it affects.

00:52:15.180 --> 00:52:18.240
And guaranteed the further down
the line we go, it's starting

00:52:18.240 --> 00:52:19.710
to affect more and more people.

00:52:19.710 --> 00:52:22.860
Maybe not as dramatically as what
had happened to me at the time, but

00:52:23.310 --> 00:52:23.850
it happens well.

00:52:23.850 --> 00:52:25.049
It's, it's easy.

00:52:25.080 --> 00:52:32.800
Um, um, I get phone calls from
people, um,  who, uh, have run

00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:34.960
afoul of some firearms law.

00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:38.770
And my first response is I'm
a professor, not a lawyer.

00:52:39.250 --> 00:52:42.820
There's, there's no way I, I
could be of helped you no matter

00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:44.770
what, what your situation is.

00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:45.280
Right.

00:52:45.340 --> 00:52:48.640
But, uh, they call and
they they're desperate.

00:52:49.090 --> 00:52:53.200
And they have talked
themselves into a problem.

00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:53.380
Mm.

00:52:53.710 --> 00:52:59.020
I had one fellow call me and say
that his truck was stolen and

00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:01.030
he was getting ready for a hunt.

00:53:01.030 --> 00:53:06.670
And so he'd got the truck all stashed
with food and clothing and, and everything

00:53:06.700 --> 00:53:13.960
and left his gun in a truck to, uh, uh,
become acclimatized with the temperature.

00:53:14.260 --> 00:53:16.840
And it was stolen with,
with the gun in it.

00:53:16.900 --> 00:53:17.110
Mm.

00:53:17.170 --> 00:53:19.150
So he calls the police and tells them.

00:53:19.375 --> 00:53:21.355
The truck and gun were stolen.

00:53:21.625 --> 00:53:26.155
So now he's charged for unsafe storage
and convicted by his own words.

00:53:26.455 --> 00:53:28.255
Mm-hmm  and he calls me for help.

00:53:28.795 --> 00:53:30.805
And I say, I, I can't help you.

00:53:30.810 --> 00:53:35.875
Your case is, is, is decided because
you told him what you did and

00:53:35.875 --> 00:53:38.095
what you did was wrong by the law.

00:53:38.365 --> 00:53:39.925
And that's

00:53:39.925 --> 00:53:45.535
it, you know, in, it was interesting
because in my situation, I get a phone

00:53:45.535 --> 00:53:51.265
call from the, um, from my receptionist
and I'm like, oh, it's kind of odd.

00:53:51.270 --> 00:53:52.405
She's phoning me in the morning.

00:53:52.405 --> 00:53:56.575
And I'm like, she sounds
a little bit, uh, uh, off.

00:53:56.665 --> 00:53:58.165
And I said, it's everything okay.

00:53:58.165 --> 00:53:59.515
She's like, oh, I'm okay.

00:53:59.515 --> 00:54:00.445
But you should probably get here.

00:54:00.445 --> 00:54:01.225
The police are here.

00:54:01.890 --> 00:54:03.840
And, um, I said, oh, okay.

00:54:04.080 --> 00:54:05.610
Um, you know, I'm, I'm actually on my way.

00:54:05.610 --> 00:54:09.510
Anyways, I'm in my vehicle, I'm
driving over, had a trailer in tow.

00:54:09.510 --> 00:54:11.580
And I said, what do they want?

00:54:11.580 --> 00:54:11.760
Right.

00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:14.340
Because I was working with
Vancouver for police at the time.

00:54:14.370 --> 00:54:17.040
And like I said, new S
and Abby and a few others.

00:54:17.045 --> 00:54:19.440
And I figured it was one of the
things we're working on with them.

00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.420
And they said, well,
they have a warrant here.

00:54:21.780 --> 00:54:24.540
And, um, I said, oh, we'll take
a look at the warrant, get a copy

00:54:24.545 --> 00:54:26.010
and, and show 'em what they need.

00:54:26.010 --> 00:54:26.220
Right.

00:54:26.220 --> 00:54:30.090
I figured maybe one of the firearms
that we had was something of, of, of

00:54:30.095 --> 00:54:32.880
interest and says, no, no, no, you should.

00:54:32.885 --> 00:54:35.760
Uh, they said, they, they
wanna wait until you get here.

00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:40.050
So I, I get, I drive in, I think it was
driving the next stare at the time with

00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:41.970
just towing a big trailer behind it.

00:54:41.970 --> 00:54:42.150
And.

00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:44.850
And they had the block corded off.

00:54:45.210 --> 00:54:49.020
They had the municipally integrated
E R T here I drive around back and

00:54:49.020 --> 00:54:54.600
there's a team staged in the back and I
snuck up on them, so to speak and wow.

00:54:54.690 --> 00:54:57.480
And this said, uh,
first guy, oh, Hey Trav.

00:54:57.510 --> 00:54:58.320
Oh, uh, yeah.

00:54:58.325 --> 00:54:59.460
Can you just park over here?

00:54:59.460 --> 00:55:00.420
I'm really, really, sorry.

00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:02.190
We don't want to be here.

00:55:02.190 --> 00:55:02.700
This isn't.

00:55:02.700 --> 00:55:04.200
I forget what he said was Abbotsford.

00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:06.390
Cuz it's municipally integrated
this isn't Abbotsford.

00:55:06.390 --> 00:55:07.500
It's got nothing to do with us.

00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:07.710
Right.

00:55:07.710 --> 00:55:09.120
And okay.

00:55:09.125 --> 00:55:10.080
I don't know who he was.

00:55:10.085 --> 00:55:10.830
I'll mask up.

00:55:10.835 --> 00:55:11.160
Right.

00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:12.870
But he seemed to know me.

00:55:13.410 --> 00:55:15.330
Next person says, oh,
I, I know your father.

00:55:15.335 --> 00:55:19.740
He trained me back in the academy
and, and uh, I just want you to

00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:21.540
know this isn't new west  right.

00:55:21.540 --> 00:55:25.920
And each person, anyways, I get
inside, uh, the building and right

00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:28.830
off the bat, this one guy's like,
okay, this is illegal over here.

00:55:28.835 --> 00:55:31.890
And I started explaining to
him why it's not illegal.

00:55:32.070 --> 00:55:32.340
Right.

00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:33.810
And okay, this over here is illegal.

00:55:33.810 --> 00:55:36.030
And I explained to him why it's
not illegal, but the third one.

00:55:36.810 --> 00:55:42.180
. I remember this YouTube video of
a lawyer in the states and it's

00:55:42.180 --> 00:55:43.800
called don't talk to the police.

00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:44.130
Right?

00:55:44.490 --> 00:55:51.030
And it's one of these things that, um,
everybody, everybody should read, read,

00:55:51.030 --> 00:55:55.050
everybody should watch it because this
lawyer makes a very, very good point.

00:55:55.050 --> 00:55:58.560
And he gives equal time to the
police afterwards to talk and rebut,

00:55:58.560 --> 00:56:00.300
to refute anything that he says.

00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:03.420
And the police say, I'm not,
I can't refute anything.

00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:03.930
Seriously.

00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:05.160
Don't talk to the police.

00:56:05.160 --> 00:56:07.830
There's plenty of time afterwards,
when you can talk to them to

00:56:07.830 --> 00:56:10.800
explain, even if you know, you've
done absolutely everything right.

00:56:11.040 --> 00:56:15.090
Which I knew and which many others
know, the only thing that you can do

00:56:15.300 --> 00:56:17.490
is hurt yourself by opening your mouth.

00:56:17.520 --> 00:56:19.140
You can explain it all after exactly.

00:56:19.410 --> 00:56:24.390
The one thing though, that I would
change from that whole, uh, video,

00:56:24.390 --> 00:56:26.250
cuz what I got from that was okay.

00:56:27.420 --> 00:56:29.340
I could see there's an agenda here.

00:56:29.430 --> 00:56:29.940
I see.

00:56:29.940 --> 00:56:31.290
There's a mission that they're on.

00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:32.580
I'll shut up.

00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:33.150
Right?

00:56:34.140 --> 00:56:38.850
I get pulled into the,
um, uh, pre-trial center.

00:56:38.850 --> 00:56:40.110
I'm phoning up friends.

00:56:40.110 --> 00:56:41.340
I'm like, do you guys know any lawyers?

00:56:41.340 --> 00:56:42.630
They're like, well, corporate lawyers.

00:56:42.630 --> 00:56:42.930
Sure.

00:56:42.930 --> 00:56:46.620
Like why would, why would I know
anybody who knows lawyers, right?

00:56:46.620 --> 00:56:47.850
Or, yeah, that's the issue.

00:56:48.150 --> 00:56:48.480
Right.

00:56:48.485 --> 00:56:50.460
And so, uh, anyways, we get in there.

00:56:51.134 --> 00:56:58.785
And, uh, I end up spending three days
in a, in a cell in my, um, father's in

00:56:58.785 --> 00:57:00.495
another cell, my mother's in another cell.

00:57:00.495 --> 00:57:04.004
My two brothers are another cells and
they hold us while going through and

00:57:04.665 --> 00:57:07.154
seizing everything, executing warrants.

00:57:07.185 --> 00:57:10.095
And, uh, so I'm like, okay,
don't talk to the police.

00:57:10.095 --> 00:57:14.415
And later on a bright individual,
a friend of mine said when he is

00:57:14.415 --> 00:57:19.245
reviewing things, he says, you know,
Travis, he did a very good job of just

00:57:19.305 --> 00:57:20.865
saying nothing when you're in there.

00:57:21.015 --> 00:57:24.584
But perhaps you could have built
a very strong case by asking some

00:57:24.584 --> 00:57:26.055
questions when you're in there as well.

00:57:26.060 --> 00:57:28.964
Cuz all of a sudden that talking
is now on the other side.

00:57:29.265 --> 00:57:29.325
Yeah.

00:57:29.355 --> 00:57:34.334
And whoever it is that's doing the
interviewing is gonna be essentially

00:57:34.334 --> 00:57:38.024
etching their words in stone, which
can later be reviewed that's right.

00:57:38.029 --> 00:57:41.265
So asking questions of them, I
think would be the only thing

00:57:41.265 --> 00:57:42.495
that would add to all of that.

00:57:43.274 --> 00:57:49.185
Um, so yeah, that was, that was a, uh,
An interesting experience, but it's

00:57:49.185 --> 00:57:54.675
one that, uh, obviously ended up as
it ought to with the police officer

00:57:54.675 --> 00:58:00.465
separately, getting charged for his,
uh, malfeasance and misgivings and

00:58:01.005 --> 00:58:04.755
apology being issued and an undisclosed
cash settlement and all the rest.

00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:09.105
But, um, it's uh, yeah,
don't talk to the police.

00:58:09.495 --> 00:58:10.275
Good advice.

00:58:10.815 --> 00:58:16.695
Well, that's, that's a horrible story
and you were just really, um, abused

00:58:16.695 --> 00:58:21.555
is the only word I can think of that
really was, uh, abusive process.

00:58:21.945 --> 00:58:24.285
And you were just victimized.

00:58:24.290 --> 00:58:24.795
That's horrible.

00:58:25.605 --> 00:58:29.565
I remember, uh, crown council says
Trav, you know, I think you're right.

00:58:29.625 --> 00:58:31.095
Like this is original crown, right?

00:58:31.095 --> 00:58:31.455
I.

00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:35.010
I've been looking at, I bar I
barely looked at the file, but yeah.

00:58:35.580 --> 00:58:38.790
Looks like you haven't done anything, but
you know, just, just help us out here.

00:58:38.790 --> 00:58:39.000
Right.

00:58:39.000 --> 00:58:41.790
Just maybe take a plea deal and
we'll give you everything back.

00:58:41.795 --> 00:58:42.120
Right.

00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:47.040
And how about, um, just sign this
letter saying you're you guys are sorry

00:58:47.045 --> 00:58:48.270
and you, you can hold on everything.

00:58:48.270 --> 00:58:49.080
We get it all back.

00:58:49.080 --> 00:58:50.010
We're all back to normal.

00:58:50.010 --> 00:58:50.280
Right?

00:58:50.310 --> 00:58:50.970
I said, no.

00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:54.240
I said, there's no way I'm
admitting to wrongdoing.

00:58:54.300 --> 00:58:57.390
Like, if I'd done something wrong, I'd
say, Hey, that sounds like a sweet deal.

00:58:57.390 --> 00:58:57.720
Great.

00:58:58.080 --> 00:58:58.770
let's take it.

00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:01.560
And he says, you know, I've done
an assessment of your house.

00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:03.060
I've done an assessment of your office.

00:59:03.060 --> 00:59:04.620
I've done an assessment
of your family's house.

00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:07.890
Like here's how much money we
think you have to fight it.

00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:11.160
And here's how long that
we can drag this thing out.

00:59:12.240 --> 00:59:12.930
You said this to me.

00:59:13.500 --> 00:59:13.830
Wow.

00:59:13.830 --> 00:59:14.970
It'll be so much cheaper.

00:59:15.060 --> 00:59:18.660
If you just a typical council
will cost about this much.

00:59:18.660 --> 00:59:19.500
So we've calculated.

00:59:19.505 --> 00:59:21.210
It'll cost about this much to defend it.

00:59:21.660 --> 00:59:22.350
This is easy.

00:59:22.380 --> 00:59:23.400
You get what you want in the end.

00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:24.210
You get everything else.

00:59:24.210 --> 00:59:24.900
Everyone's happy.

00:59:25.635 --> 00:59:28.155
anyways, that same crown
council afterwards.

00:59:28.785 --> 00:59:30.105
I really admire you, Travis.

00:59:30.105 --> 00:59:33.825
I admire your level of, of stick to
it Inness, and I'm gonna recommend

00:59:33.825 --> 00:59:37.785
you as, um, as a subject matter expert
on these issues to others Essent.

00:59:38.279 --> 00:59:39.359
Please don't come after me.

00:59:41.430 --> 00:59:41.520
right.

00:59:41.549 --> 00:59:42.629
I that's horrible.

00:59:43.200 --> 00:59:49.109
Most, most of the people who call
me, uh, to complain have, are

00:59:49.109 --> 00:59:51.509
just, uh, ignorant of the law.

00:59:52.020 --> 00:59:52.049
Mm.

00:59:52.055 --> 00:59:56.040
And ignorant of how to,
uh, deal with any mistakes.

00:59:56.490 --> 00:59:59.189
Uh, so it is you're, you're the,
uh, so it is your, your situation.

00:59:59.189 --> 01:00:03.509
There was an actual malevolent person
mm-hmm  in, on the police side.

01:00:03.960 --> 01:00:10.770
Uh, the law is very complicated and
it's not surprising that that both

01:00:11.069 --> 01:00:17.879
the police and the suspect or any
general firearms owner would not know.

01:00:18.134 --> 01:00:22.275
Everything mm-hmm  so it, it
is quite easy to make mistakes.

01:00:22.335 --> 01:00:28.365
I agree at, at one point I wanted
to interview police because my,

01:00:28.365 --> 01:00:32.835
one of my skills from my PhD
program was survey research.

01:00:32.865 --> 01:00:32.895
Mm.

01:00:33.255 --> 01:00:37.725
So I thought one way to start doing
this would be to survey various,

01:00:38.115 --> 01:00:43.904
uh, groups, uh, Canadians, British
Colombians, uh, police and see what

01:00:43.904 --> 01:00:46.005
opinions could come out of that.

01:00:46.005 --> 01:00:52.665
And, and, but I was blocked by the RCMP
and they, and as blocked by the Vancouver

01:00:52.670 --> 01:00:57.705
police, uh, for different reasons, the
office and the officer in charge of

01:00:57.705 --> 01:01:02.384
the Vancouver police said you wanted
to interview the police on gun laws.

01:01:03.674 --> 01:01:06.525
they don't know enough
for you to interview.

01:01:06.555 --> 01:01:06.855
Right.

01:01:06.915 --> 01:01:08.654
I mean, um, I think that's right.

01:01:08.654 --> 01:01:10.665
I mean, that's not an
insult it's no, it's not

01:01:11.055 --> 01:01:14.565
it's so guns are a small, small
portion of what they have to deal with.

01:01:14.565 --> 01:01:17.384
There's so much they have
to know, and I, I should.

01:01:18.090 --> 01:01:22.110
I should be clear in case my
previous  words are coming

01:01:22.110 --> 01:01:23.640
across as sort of anti-police.

01:01:23.640 --> 01:01:26.370
I couldn't be more
pro-police than anybody else.

01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:30.570
There are some, there's gonna be those
small percentage of, of really bad

01:01:30.570 --> 01:01:34.080
apples I ran into 'em there's gonna be
those small percentage of really good.

01:01:34.380 --> 01:01:34.590
Yeah.

01:01:34.650 --> 01:01:39.480
Uh, people out there, the majority are
just your rank and file they'll plug in.

01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:42.960
They'll do their day
they're they're humans.

01:01:42.960 --> 01:01:44.460
We're all the same we're animals.

01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:46.080
There's the reasons there's game trails.

01:01:46.140 --> 01:01:48.810
They like to go follow the
same path of least resistance.

01:01:48.810 --> 01:01:49.110
Right?

01:01:49.350 --> 01:01:56.430
Of course . And now with,
uh, multicultural, uh, hiring

01:01:56.610 --> 01:02:00.900
mm-hmm  we now have multiple
cultures in the police department.

01:02:00.900 --> 01:02:01.830
No surprise, right?

01:02:01.835 --> 01:02:02.640
No insult.

01:02:02.700 --> 01:02:02.970
Right.

01:02:03.030 --> 01:02:05.580
But that, but not many of them come from.

01:02:06.185 --> 01:02:10.355
Outdoors, uh, culture
such as we have in Canada.

01:02:10.745 --> 01:02:17.255
And so many of the urban people of
whatever ethnicity, uh, have, have

01:02:17.255 --> 01:02:21.575
cultures that leave them without
any knowledge about gun owners.

01:02:21.845 --> 01:02:25.445
So when they run across somebody
with guns, they think that they

01:02:25.475 --> 01:02:27.275
have to have a SWAT team, right.

01:02:27.305 --> 01:02:31.205
Or, or they think that if the gun
is registered, it must be someplace

01:02:31.205 --> 01:02:32.555
where they were told it is.

01:02:32.705 --> 01:02:37.445
And it may not be, uh, there there's
all sorts of, of, of sure of levels

01:02:37.445 --> 01:02:42.215
here that could make them quite
frightened of some good old boy duck

01:02:42.220 --> 01:02:45.365
hunter, who, who really is no problem.

01:02:45.485 --> 01:02:49.085
And maybe a little bit deaf when
they tell him to put that gun down.

01:02:49.085 --> 01:02:49.595
That's right.

01:02:50.465 --> 01:02:53.075
maybe the, guy's just an a-hole, but
it doesn't mean he's a threat, right?

01:02:54.515 --> 01:02:57.695
it's a, so I mean, it, it is
easy that accidents happen and

01:02:57.965 --> 01:02:59.315
people don't know everything.

01:03:00.180 --> 01:03:03.900
so, you know, back to the paper that
you're talking about of the, uh, sort of

01:03:03.900 --> 01:03:08.490
the differences between Canada and the
us and their, the right to bear arms.

01:03:08.820 --> 01:03:12.030
And I remember that was one of the
questions that was, um, asking me before

01:03:12.030 --> 01:03:14.880
he is like, do you think Canadians
have a right to bear arms Travis?

01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:19.140
And, and I said, you know, it's
been explained to me that in Canada,

01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:24.330
we have the, um, it's a privilege
and which is granted to us, but

01:03:24.330 --> 01:03:29.010
not necessarily a right, which is
how it's established under a law.

01:03:29.520 --> 01:03:34.080
Uh, and it's funny how, you know, some
people say, you know, the Canadian charter

01:03:34.080 --> 01:03:37.080
of rights and freedoms, I've heard one
person say, that's, that's the worst

01:03:37.080 --> 01:03:40.020
thing that's ever came out is having this
charter of rights and freedoms, because

01:03:40.020 --> 01:03:44.040
it now says that the government has
the authority to tell you what's right.

01:03:44.070 --> 01:03:45.480
And we can enshrine this.

01:03:45.510 --> 01:03:50.070
And with, unless we tell you it's in
here, then I guess it's wrong, right?

01:03:50.460 --> 01:03:50.520
So,

01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:51.480
wow.

01:03:52.530 --> 01:03:59.970
It's because in Canada rights are granted
to you by the government effectively.

01:04:00.330 --> 01:04:00.360
Mm.

01:04:00.450 --> 01:04:03.930
If the government says you don't
have a right, it there's clearly,

01:04:03.990 --> 01:04:07.470
uh, an argument that would, that
say that you do not have that.

01:04:07.470 --> 01:04:07.770
Right.

01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:13.650
Mm-hmm  uh, another argument would be
traditional rights that were, that were

01:04:13.710 --> 01:04:21.386
granted by the king, in the English bill
of rights that Blackstone and Sur John A.

01:04:21.386 --> 01:04:27.150
McDonald thought that Canadians
and inherited, uh, No longer exists

01:04:27.150 --> 01:04:29.250
because they're no longer exercised.

01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:36.360
If you have a right, but refuse over
generations to not exercise it, it starts

01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:38.820
to look more and more extinguished.

01:04:39.090 --> 01:04:41.270
Ah, yes.

01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:48.090
Uh, although, and, and if the courts
are appointed by the prime minister

01:04:48.420 --> 01:04:52.740
and the courts are the ultimate
arbiter on what is or is not all

01:04:52.740 --> 01:04:58.470
right, it's not clear that the courts
are separate from the prime minister.

01:04:58.770 --> 01:04:58.830
No.

01:04:58.830 --> 01:05:04.590
Despite all the appointed by
patronage committees that decide who

01:05:04.590 --> 01:05:08.370
will be nominated, that the prime
minister then chooses from mm-hmm

01:05:08.790 --> 01:05:13.350
So essentially it's centralized
government, including executive

01:05:13.410 --> 01:05:16.200
legislative, judicial it's
all the prime minister.

01:05:16.210 --> 01:05:21.200
Mm-hmm .  and, and whatever
rights, one parliament, uh, uh,

01:05:21.420 --> 01:05:23.520
invents, the next one can erase.

01:05:24.300 --> 01:05:24.420
Yeah.

01:05:24.420 --> 01:05:26.880
I guess it's kind of difficult
when the previous conservative

01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:28.410
government says they want to.

01:05:29.940 --> 01:05:31.560
Diminish the civil service.

01:05:31.560 --> 01:05:35.820
And, uh, I sort of start cutting
the government expenditures.

01:05:35.820 --> 01:05:39.060
You're kind of slitting their own
throat, so to speak because the,

01:05:39.060 --> 01:05:44.280
uh, uh, any government that would
propagate and build that larger will

01:05:44.310 --> 01:05:48.660
inherently have a, uh, a better base
to, uh, win future elections with.

01:05:48.660 --> 01:05:52.110
And, well, I mean, it's not just guns.

01:05:52.170 --> 01:05:58.350
The current progressive
dogmas do not want to honor.

01:05:58.430 --> 01:06:01.190
Traditional Canadian values.

01:06:01.879 --> 01:06:09.589
Uh, the army, the military has been
gradually shrunk in size and importance.

01:06:10.069 --> 01:06:12.500
Uh, there's even a government publication.

01:06:12.500 --> 01:06:19.790
Now that has the previous national
flag, the red Enson as a mark of racism.

01:06:19.819 --> 01:06:26.180
Mm-hmm . So if you have a red ENT or fly
red, Ensen you are now suspect of racism.

01:06:26.810 --> 01:06:32.240
Uh, this not, it may
be a minor functional.

01:06:33.310 --> 01:06:37.810
Department mistake, or it might
be something indicative, but the

01:06:37.810 --> 01:06:42.110
liberals have, have invaded for a
long time against traditional Canadian

01:06:42.279 --> 01:06:49.779
culture, uh, why this has to be erased
or why this is, uh, a bad thing.

01:06:50.140 --> 01:06:58.029
Uh, again, the immigrants are used as a
fulcrum to defend hate is to be a racist.

01:06:58.299 --> 01:07:04.450
And so that means they can argue
that, uh, in any, uh, claim

01:07:04.720 --> 01:07:09.700
that would make a reference to
principles that could discriminate,

01:07:10.000 --> 01:07:12.759
uh, is now racist or hateful.

01:07:13.060 --> 01:07:19.170
And that, that is really a recipe
for destroying, uh, uh, a, a

01:07:19.174 --> 01:07:21.040
happy multicultural country.

01:07:21.340 --> 01:07:22.960
I totally agree.

01:07:23.500 --> 01:07:31.240
You know, when, when people stop using
those rights and they start to wither.

01:07:32.490 --> 01:07:34.710
, uh, they get easier and easier to take.

01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:36.000
And it's, it's difficult.

01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:42.600
I think for people to, uh, uh, see what a
right is, as opposed to, uh, like I said,

01:07:42.660 --> 01:07:47.010
for example, freedom of speech, you can
say whatever you want provided, you're

01:07:47.015 --> 01:07:48.510
not yelling fire in a movie theater.

01:07:48.510 --> 01:07:48.810
Right.

01:07:48.810 --> 01:07:54.330
And, um, to protect that freedom of
speech, you also have to be ready

01:07:54.330 --> 01:07:58.770
to be offended or have other people
use that freedom in a way that

01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:00.540
you don't necessarily agree with.

01:08:00.930 --> 01:08:04.200
And I think that is sort of where the
fundamental disconnect that I've been

01:08:04.200 --> 01:08:09.000
seeing as of years, is that people
will say, well, here's the freedom, but

01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:10.440
here's what the freedom should look like.

01:08:10.590 --> 01:08:12.600
And they, they try and
define that whole thing.

01:08:13.110 --> 01:08:15.120
Um, just like with the.

01:08:15.285 --> 01:08:18.495
Uh, when you're talking about the
difference between the us and the

01:08:18.495 --> 01:08:20.745
Canadian and right to bear arms,
they say, well, you know, you got

01:08:20.745 --> 01:08:23.444
a freedom of protection, but we're
gonna define that a little further.

01:08:23.444 --> 01:08:25.184
Now, your protection's gonna
come from the government.

01:08:25.425 --> 01:08:26.865
You call the police, right?

01:08:26.865 --> 01:08:27.615
We carry guns.

01:08:27.615 --> 01:08:28.665
The police can carry guns.

01:08:28.665 --> 01:08:29.205
They can have it.

01:08:29.205 --> 01:08:30.224
They'll come and they'll protect you.

01:08:30.224 --> 01:08:30.375
Right?

01:08:30.380 --> 01:08:33.404
And any gun owner will say,
well, in seconds, count, the

01:08:33.410 --> 01:08:37.425
police are only minutes away,
which, which is totally true.

01:08:37.425 --> 01:08:39.194
The police can't be there
in your back pocket.

01:08:39.974 --> 01:08:40.545
Um,

01:08:40.934 --> 01:08:43.635
it's, it's not the job of
the police to protect you.

01:08:43.694 --> 01:08:44.564
It really isn't.

01:08:44.745 --> 01:08:51.075
The, the police, uh, want to create
a culture of safety and by the, by

01:08:51.080 --> 01:08:56.774
their existence, but after the crime
is committed, whatever possession, uh,

01:08:56.805 --> 01:09:03.075
property crime, uh, uh, violent crime,
the police job is to collect evidence,

01:09:03.345 --> 01:09:07.005
provide, uh, the basis for charges.

01:09:07.274 --> 01:09:08.745
That's not gonna protect you.

01:09:09.390 --> 01:09:09.750
right.

01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:10.800
not

01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:11.250
at all.

01:09:13.110 --> 01:09:13.380
that?

01:09:13.380 --> 01:09:18.690
Well, the, the free speech
argument is an interesting one.

01:09:19.230 --> 01:09:25.950
We have people ethnicities groups
in Canada who come from places where

01:09:25.950 --> 01:09:28.020
people work really hard to hurt them.

01:09:28.110 --> 01:09:28.530
Mm.

01:09:28.650 --> 01:09:35.910
Uh, Chinese and Malaysia Jews in Germany,
uh, various people across the world.

01:09:35.915 --> 01:09:37.440
Those are just two examples.

01:09:37.470 --> 01:09:37.500
Mm.

01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:44.100
And so one could legitimately believe
that if there were hateful, things said

01:09:44.100 --> 01:09:49.770
about those guys, then one might actually
expect some of those hateful comments

01:09:49.980 --> 01:09:56.340
to result in violence or, or insults,
or, or, or at least life limitations.

01:09:56.340 --> 01:09:56.430
Sure.

01:09:56.430 --> 01:10:02.010
Such as can't get jobs or, or can't
get, uh, access to places and things.

01:10:02.015 --> 01:10:03.150
Mm-hmm  uh, so.

01:10:03.715 --> 01:10:06.715
Clearly I can see an argument
why you don't want too much

01:10:06.715 --> 01:10:09.445
hateful, ethnic, ethnic remarks.

01:10:09.865 --> 01:10:16.105
Uh, but on the other hand, if we have
a robust democracy, a robust country

01:10:16.105 --> 01:10:21.685
where people have opinions and argue
about them, uh, we certainly should

01:10:21.690 --> 01:10:23.395
have the right to pick friends.

01:10:23.605 --> 01:10:28.195
Mm-hmm  and if I want to, or don't want
to be with somebody, uh that's my right.

01:10:28.345 --> 01:10:28.585
Yeah.

01:10:28.795 --> 01:10:32.755
Um, and that, that is a
natural, if you wish, right.

01:10:32.755 --> 01:10:34.135
That people wanna be with.

01:10:34.265 --> 01:10:37.625
Uh, somebody they want to
be with for whatever reason.

01:10:37.865 --> 01:10:38.015
So

01:10:38.015 --> 01:10:40.985
Muhammad Ali said, you know, birds
of a feather flock together, right?

01:10:41.075 --> 01:10:41.165
and,

01:10:41.915 --> 01:10:43.955
and often those are similarity.

01:10:44.285 --> 01:10:47.705
It's not true that the whole world
of the seventh grade dance, where

01:10:47.710 --> 01:10:51.965
the boys are on the one side and the
girls on the other and every little

01:10:51.965 --> 01:10:54.335
ethnicity is grouped by themselves.

01:10:54.365 --> 01:10:54.725
Right.

01:10:54.755 --> 01:10:59.435
Um, many of us live in a heterogeneous
world and mm-hmm  are perfectly

01:10:59.435 --> 01:11:04.355
happy to, to, to do so, but
one could be sensitive to this.

01:11:04.715 --> 01:11:09.995
So I could, I I've just argued against
total freedom of speech, but on the

01:11:09.995 --> 01:11:16.019
other hand, Uh, these things get
weaponized mm-hmm  these certainly

01:11:16.019 --> 01:11:18.780
legitimate principles get pushed too far.

01:11:19.049 --> 01:11:25.650
So now, any comment that the government
thinks is, is, uh, hatred, uh, or

01:11:25.650 --> 01:11:30.780
angry can now be, uh, uh, ruled
out and therefore criticism of the

01:11:30.780 --> 01:11:35.940
government criticism of government
policy, which under no way should be,

01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:38.460
uh, uh, controlled by the government.

01:11:38.490 --> 01:11:40.200
Mm-hmm  who who's ever in power,

01:11:40.349 --> 01:11:41.099
which is scary.

01:11:41.309 --> 01:11:42.240
Very scary.

01:11:42.240 --> 01:11:43.740
This is scary if they're
the ones deeming what's.

01:11:44.025 --> 01:11:46.395
Defining what hate speech

01:11:46.395 --> 01:11:46.815
is.

01:11:47.145 --> 01:11:51.105
And, and Canada really has
no bill of rights with teeth.

01:11:51.315 --> 01:11:53.415
Mm-hmm  really has no rights with teeth.

01:11:53.415 --> 01:11:58.245
There's no way that, uh, a, a
Supreme court will defend the

01:11:58.245 --> 01:12:01.845
rights that we're talking about
as the us Supreme court does.

01:12:01.995 --> 01:12:05.715
Mm-hmm  whether you're in favor
of conservative interpretations

01:12:06.075 --> 01:12:10.125
or progressive interpretations,
there's, there's just no way that

01:12:10.185 --> 01:12:12.285
the basic rights are protected.

01:12:12.615 --> 01:12:17.655
Canada put Ukrainian Canadians
into concentration camps,

01:12:17.655 --> 01:12:22.125
Canada put Italian and German
Canadians and concentration camps.

01:12:22.235 --> 01:12:23.755
Mm-hmm  Canada put Japanese.

01:12:23.985 --> 01:12:28.635
And so there's, there's clearly no
reason to think the government couldn't

01:12:28.755 --> 01:12:31.635
act against our best interest mm-hmm

01:12:33.105 --> 01:12:35.205
well, where do you think
things are gonna be going with?

01:12:35.235 --> 01:12:38.925
Like, so right now, I think the,
since people have an attention

01:12:38.925 --> 01:12:41.715
span, that's about TikTok length.

01:12:42.195 --> 01:12:46.575
Um,  everyone's thinking about
this handgun freeze, right?

01:12:46.575 --> 01:12:48.644
This new, recent handgun
freeze that's happening.

01:12:48.644 --> 01:12:51.315
Have you done much, uh,
looking into, into that

01:12:51.315 --> 01:12:57.945
one I've I've looked at it, uh, but
I don't know what to do at this point

01:12:57.945 --> 01:13:02.325
because, uh, there, they haven't,
the government has not brought

01:13:02.385 --> 01:13:07.065
in their order and council, the
legislation is still in obeyance.

01:13:07.425 --> 01:13:13.155
There may well be, uh, in a week
or two, uh, the order and council

01:13:13.394 --> 01:13:16.035
that makes the freeze effective.

01:13:16.455 --> 01:13:19.485
But right now it's just
hanging over everybody.

01:13:19.905 --> 01:13:27.615
Uh, just like the 20, 20 confiscation,
uh, the so-called buyback, uh, it's

01:13:27.615 --> 01:13:29.175
not clear what they're gonna do.

01:13:29.175 --> 01:13:32.925
They keep saying different
things and, uh, it's all hanging.

01:13:33.075 --> 01:13:38.690
Uh, and, and again, The liberals
want public, uh, announcements.

01:13:39.110 --> 01:13:43.580
They want to make, uh, political
points by announcing these things.

01:13:44.030 --> 01:13:45.349
Uh, it's not clear.

01:13:45.349 --> 01:13:47.990
They will actually do anything.

01:13:48.050 --> 01:13:52.340
Mm-hmm . Although with firearms, their
success rate of doing is, is pretty good.

01:13:52.345 --> 01:13:59.299
Mm-hmm  uh, so I, I wouldn't discount
that they will confiscate force a New

01:13:59.299 --> 01:14:02.300
Zealand style confiscation on people.

01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:08.420
Uh, I've heard that the, the last
rumor I've heard is that you'll

01:14:08.425 --> 01:14:11.030
be asked, you'll be required.

01:14:11.520 --> 01:14:18.660
To mail in whatever firearm you think is
prohibited mm-hmm . And, uh, they will

01:14:18.660 --> 01:14:21.030
decide whether it's prohibited or not.

01:14:21.060 --> 01:14:23.070
Once they have it  once they have it.

01:14:23.070 --> 01:14:24.840
So the costs go back to you.

01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:29.550
Mm-hmm  not them setting up, uh, as
they did in New Zealand, drop off spots

01:14:29.550 --> 01:14:35.940
with, uh, assessors and police and
security, but you Canada's obviously

01:14:35.940 --> 01:14:40.290
much bigger than New Zealand mm-hmm  so
that's prohibitive, but just mail it in.

01:14:40.710 --> 01:14:45.210
And so Canada post will have
hundreds of thousands of guns flow

01:14:45.240 --> 01:14:50.130
flowing through their post offices,
carefully marked as to what it is.

01:14:50.910 --> 01:14:51.270
You know,

01:14:51.480 --> 01:14:56.820
I, I see a business opportunity for a,
uh, any entrepreneurial minded people.

01:14:57.360 --> 01:15:02.880
So Silvercore  is a fire firearms
business, and we've got plenty

01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:08.490
of, um, uh, business conditions
that allow for you name it.

01:15:09.150 --> 01:15:14.040
Um, once a prohibited firearm goes into
a business inventory, businesses are

01:15:14.040 --> 01:15:18.960
permitted to buy, sell trade between other
businesses and museums, cuz museums are

01:15:18.960 --> 01:15:20.760
class in the sort, sort of same area.

01:15:21.540 --> 01:15:26.340
I wonder if a business opportu opportunity
would be for gun stores in general to buy

01:15:26.340 --> 01:15:31.770
these firearms from people, um, under the.

01:15:32.610 --> 01:15:37.440
Rather than surrendering them to the,
uh, to the government for destruction,

01:15:37.650 --> 01:15:41.610
the businesses can then use 'em for any
legitimate business purpose as prescribed.

01:15:41.610 --> 01:15:43.950
Maybe they want to use 'em for
film shoots or, or whatever.

01:15:43.955 --> 01:15:44.280
Right.

01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:48.150
And, uh, but once it's done, maybe
there can be contingent on there

01:15:48.240 --> 01:15:52.169
that the individual who sold the
firearm has the first rate of refusal

01:15:52.169 --> 01:15:53.879
to purchase that firearm back.

01:15:54.839 --> 01:15:59.549
Oh well, but, but these are rules
and laws and regulations that could

01:15:59.549 --> 01:16:06.059
be rewritten to, for a different set
mm-hmm  uh, so what you suggest may be

01:16:06.059 --> 01:16:08.669
current, but the next set could be, would

01:16:09.690 --> 01:16:12.480
be a gamble<laugh> basically
it's rolling the dice,

01:16:12.629 --> 01:16:14.940
although it would, it
would be more reasonable.

01:16:15.384 --> 01:16:22.075
For the buyback to go through businesses
rather than, uh, people just to go to

01:16:22.105 --> 01:16:27.054
the, uh, what staples and buy a box.

01:16:27.205 --> 01:16:27.504
Great.

01:16:27.535 --> 01:16:30.985
And ship it through, uh,
Canada post or FedEx.

01:16:31.014 --> 01:16:31.344
Sure.

01:16:31.405 --> 01:16:35.394
Uh, because that would be much
more vulnerable to theft totally.

01:16:35.394 --> 01:16:40.165
Or, or corruption than, than
businesses, which are, uh, easily

01:16:40.165 --> 01:16:41.934
required to keep track of it.

01:16:41.934 --> 01:16:42.504
Of course.

01:16:42.625 --> 01:16:43.464
Full record keeping.

01:16:43.945 --> 01:16:44.184
Yeah.

01:16:44.184 --> 01:16:48.115
Well, I mean, FedEx would be required
to keep track too, but, uh, it

01:16:48.115 --> 01:16:52.375
would be, uh, pretty complicated
and easy to make mistakes.

01:16:52.585 --> 01:16:57.025
Look at how much money on the
COVID support has disappeared.

01:16:57.144 --> 01:16:58.974
And nobody even knows where it went.

01:16:58.974 --> 01:16:59.094
I

01:16:59.094 --> 01:16:59.934
know, I know

01:17:01.434 --> 01:17:07.674
so it it's and, and the same with the
freeze, uh, what, what are we gonna do?

01:17:07.674 --> 01:17:09.714
We gonna continue grandfathering.

01:17:10.050 --> 01:17:10.860
Firearms.

01:17:10.860 --> 01:17:15.750
And so these horribly dangerous,
incredibly, uh, destructive

01:17:15.780 --> 01:17:17.550
public safety things you can keep

01:17:17.550 --> 01:17:17.730
'
em.

01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:18.000
Right.

01:17:18.030 --> 01:17:22.050
Well, just like the prohibition of
these assault weapons, where are they?

01:17:22.110 --> 01:17:25.200
Well, in the exact same place they
were before, has anything changed?

01:17:25.200 --> 01:17:26.250
Nope,  right.

01:17:26.490 --> 01:17:30.300
Well, but they got a couple of
public relations broadcasts and, uh,

01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:36.030
maybe the people who, uh, support
this, uh, uh, are now satisfied.

01:17:36.450 --> 01:17:42.180
Uh it's again, going back to political
marketing, it is interesting that

01:17:42.780 --> 01:17:49.080
each gun law is introduced as if
there were no gun laws before.

01:17:49.110 --> 01:17:49.230
I

01:17:49.230 --> 01:17:49.770
know, I know

01:17:50.940 --> 01:17:51.240
that's.

01:17:51.660 --> 01:17:55.740
I mean, anybody who has a gun
is knows that is never have been

01:17:55.740 --> 01:18:01.410
true since 1892, but, uh, uh,
that's not how it's announced.

01:18:01.950 --> 01:18:02.160
Oh,

01:18:02.160 --> 01:18:02.580
man.

01:18:03.565 --> 01:18:05.905
Yeah, the, um, gun stores buy 'em back.

01:18:05.905 --> 01:18:08.665
$1 people can pay a storage
fee just so they have it.

01:18:08.725 --> 01:18:10.915
And then, uh, maybe change a government.

01:18:11.995 --> 01:18:17.425
I I'll, I'll put that out as, uh, as an
open, an open idea for entrepreneurial

01:18:17.425 --> 01:18:19.135
minded people to, to work with.

01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:19.235
I

01:18:19.255 --> 01:18:19.475
I'm.

01:18:21.885 --> 01:18:28.335
I really find this whole thing,
disturbing that, uh, in the same, uh,

01:18:28.335 --> 01:18:36.075
month, the us Supreme court decides that
it or ordinary law abiding Americans

01:18:36.375 --> 01:18:42.885
have a natural God given right to
get a permit or to carry a handgun.

01:18:43.900 --> 01:18:45.400
Defense of their person.

01:18:45.700 --> 01:18:46.150
Yes.

01:18:46.210 --> 01:18:52.210
Uh, whether this is because of the, the
revolutionary bill of rights, whether

01:18:52.214 --> 01:18:56.889
it's due to federalism that each state
has an independent criminal code,

01:18:57.370 --> 01:19:03.309
whether it's due to a, a court system or
whether it's due to the high crime rates.

01:19:03.339 --> 01:19:09.099
Mm uh, American citizens, ordinary law,
abiding American citizens want a gun

01:19:09.099 --> 01:19:14.620
for protection because there is a huge
crime rate mm-hmm  uh, and Canada does

01:19:14.620 --> 01:19:16.900
not have as, as bad our crime rate.

01:19:17.290 --> 01:19:23.230
So perhaps our crime rate must get much
worse before we insist on our rights.

01:19:23.980 --> 01:19:24.280
Yeah.

01:19:24.280 --> 01:19:26.860
Well, I think we were a
little late at that point.

01:19:26.870 --> 01:19:27.129
I, I

01:19:27.129 --> 01:19:29.559
am not gonna argue for
the crime raising Christ.

01:19:29.565 --> 01:19:30.400
No  but

01:19:31.089 --> 01:19:33.759
well, and I saw that come through
and I think there was five

01:19:33.759 --> 01:19:37.210
or seven, um, standing court.

01:19:37.469 --> 01:19:43.440
Cases that have now been, uh, told
to review themselves, given this new

01:19:43.469 --> 01:19:45.120
Supreme court ruling in the states.

01:19:45.120 --> 01:19:51.450
And you're probably gonna find it being a
massive win for, uh, gun rights advocates,

01:19:52.230 --> 01:19:56.700
mind you at the same time, there's more,
I think New York just brought out some,

01:19:56.700 --> 01:20:02.250
some, uh, mandatory training and going
to the range and they're proposing that

01:20:02.309 --> 01:20:04.500
in order to get your, uh, your firearm.

01:20:05.009 --> 01:20:11.219
It, it seems like such a funny
treadmill of, uh, of logic, which

01:20:11.280 --> 01:20:14.759
seems so off the mark for me, like
I, I asked the firearms program,

01:20:14.759 --> 01:20:17.070
I said, you know, what's going on?

01:20:17.070 --> 01:20:18.690
You you've announced a freeze.

01:20:18.719 --> 01:20:22.379
We've got people saying, why should I
bother getting my, um, restricted license?

01:20:23.129 --> 01:20:28.440
Um, if we can't get a handgun and they
said, oh no, no, keep offering the course.

01:20:28.469 --> 01:20:29.400
We're gonna keep offering it.

01:20:29.400 --> 01:20:32.190
Cuz even afterwards competitive
shooters and those work in an armor

01:20:32.190 --> 01:20:35.849
car industry or, or other areas,
well we'll need to have this.

01:20:35.925 --> 01:20:35.955
Okay.

01:20:37.245 --> 01:20:45.195
So people are arguing the, um,
whether they should be able to

01:20:45.195 --> 01:20:46.425
have the right to keep firearms.

01:20:46.425 --> 01:20:49.095
People are arguing whether they
should be limit that, right?

01:20:49.125 --> 01:20:53.325
Whether by magazine capacity or barrel
length, or get rid of guns together.

01:20:54.375 --> 01:20:57.015
But what they're really trying
to look at has got nothing to

01:20:57.015 --> 01:20:58.815
do with firearms to begin with.

01:20:59.055 --> 01:21:03.075
Really what they're concerned about is
people doing stupid things with firearms.

01:21:03.735 --> 01:21:06.915
They're looking at stupid people, people
who are gonna be doing criminal things

01:21:06.915 --> 01:21:11.205
and nefarious things, whether that be
with a U-Haul van, whether that be with

01:21:11.205 --> 01:21:15.405
a Jerry can like you look in the UK
and they've got a prohibition on many

01:21:15.405 --> 01:21:20.385
types of firearms, yet they still find
their way into the island of the UK.

01:21:20.385 --> 01:21:21.885
And they can't keep 'em out of there.

01:21:22.155 --> 01:21:25.125
How is Canada supposed to be
able to do that right next to the

01:21:25.125 --> 01:21:29.665
largest arms manufacturer in the
world and the UK's knife violence.

01:21:30.015 --> 01:21:32.625
So to speak, like it
doesn't change the violence.

01:21:32.895 --> 01:21:34.185
It just changes the implement.

01:21:35.190 --> 01:21:35.760
instruction.

01:21:36.330 --> 01:21:42.769
Um, I don't really believe that
the gun laws are introduced.

01:21:43.215 --> 01:21:45.015
In order to reduce crime.

01:21:45.195 --> 01:21:45.705
I agree.

01:21:45.795 --> 01:21:53.325
It is not, uh, possible that the,
uh, politicians who pass these

01:21:53.325 --> 01:21:56.325
laws are that ignorant or stupid.

01:21:56.385 --> 01:22:06.645
I agree, uh, in England, uh, the cabinet,
uh, discussions of previous gun laws

01:22:06.885 --> 01:22:09.225
have become public after 50 years.

01:22:09.555 --> 01:22:16.395
And they disclosed that the 1920s,
1930s British gun laws were really

01:22:16.400 --> 01:22:21.375
because the government was afraid
of anarchy, anarchists, communists,

01:22:21.375 --> 01:22:26.625
revolution, unions, uh, protesting,
bringing down the government mm-hmm

01:22:26.895 --> 01:22:29.565
and they didn't wanna admit that.

01:22:29.865 --> 01:22:36.105
So they were, uh, saying it was
violent crime mm-hmm  uh, the bill.

01:22:37.770 --> 01:22:46.800
C 51 in 77 that brought in the firearms
acquisition certificate was really a log

01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:52.800
rolling exercise to allow the capital
punishment to finally be, uh, ruled out.

01:22:52.830 --> 01:22:52.860
Mm.

01:22:53.430 --> 01:23:00.780
And it hadn't been administered in several
years because the, uh, culture of, of

01:23:00.780 --> 01:23:05.940
in government and police and prison
society was against capital punishment.

01:23:06.180 --> 01:23:11.970
So this was a way to finally, uh,
uh, uh, rule out capital punishment.

01:23:13.950 --> 01:23:21.030
Uh, I really think that the government is,
is concerned, not about criminal violence,

01:23:21.510 --> 01:23:29.760
but about control of the public and
control of, of the population in cities.

01:23:29.765 --> 01:23:34.755
Primarily mm-hmm . You notice that C
68, when they brought it in registration

01:23:34.755 --> 01:23:42.705
and licensing, the, uh, treaty eight
nations were quite vigorous in defending

01:23:42.705 --> 01:23:46.184
their, their, their, their native rights.

01:23:46.245 --> 01:23:46.545
Sure.

01:23:46.665 --> 01:23:54.525
And the compromise was that chiefs, uh,
elected or appointed hereditary right.

01:23:54.525 --> 01:23:57.285
Could decide, uh, to issue permits.

01:23:57.285 --> 01:23:57.375
Right.

01:23:58.035 --> 01:24:02.235
And you also will notice that there's
very little information about what

01:24:02.235 --> 01:24:07.724
is the number of, uh, what is the
percentage of Aboriginal people with

01:24:07.724 --> 01:24:10.514
firearms license or registered firearms?

01:24:10.875 --> 01:24:18.750
Mm-hmm  so we really have a large, uh,
A large number of people here mm-hmm

01:24:18.990 --> 01:24:21.030
that, that we have to be concerned about.

01:24:21.030 --> 01:24:26.280
So that government really is using this as
a way to increase police power, increase

01:24:26.280 --> 01:24:31.710
supervision of all people mm-hmm , uh,
immigrants, locals, uh, Aboriginal

01:24:32.010 --> 01:24:33.750
has little to do with violent crime.

01:24:34.890 --> 01:24:36.360
Yeah, it's sad, but it's true.

01:24:36.360 --> 01:24:38.130
And I think it's really
self evident to anyone.

01:24:38.130 --> 01:24:41.460
Who's been a student of
history like yourself,

01:24:42.060 --> 01:24:49.380
and it's it's you notice the emphasis on,
on advertising and political announcements

01:24:49.590 --> 01:24:55.170
and the long timeline between actually,
if making things effective mm-hmm  this

01:24:55.170 --> 01:24:57.390
is because the politics works for them.

01:24:57.750 --> 01:25:03.000
They think they, they can solidify the
suburban ignorant people, uh, and the

01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:08.880
immigrants to build up enough voting
blocks so they can maintain power

01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:13.260
mm-hmm . So it's really about political
power mm-hmm  and long term disarmament.

01:25:13.410 --> 01:25:19.474
Mm-hmm . Uh, the recent Angus re polls
that I mentioned earlier about saying

01:25:19.745 --> 01:25:25.264
how, what, what the proportion of,
of people who own Gunsler also showed

01:25:25.505 --> 01:25:30.425
that the more anybody knew about gun
laws, the less they supported gun laws.

01:25:31.325 --> 01:25:32.405
funny how that works.

01:25:32.525 --> 01:25:36.455
Only the people that admitted they
knew nothing or barely anything

01:25:36.695 --> 01:25:40.955
were the ones who were the strongest
supporters of, of more gun laws.

01:25:41.375 --> 01:25:44.165
So really this is support by the ignorant

01:25:44.735 --> 01:25:48.365
well, doesn't that kind of bring us
back to, let's say the advisory panel.

01:25:48.370 --> 01:25:51.635
So we've got a firearms advisory
panel under the previous government.

01:25:51.635 --> 01:25:56.075
It had people who were students of
history who knew about firearms laws.

01:25:56.075 --> 01:25:58.925
Who've actually touched a
firearm and knew how they worked.

01:25:58.929 --> 01:25:59.285
Right.

01:25:59.285 --> 01:25:59.525
And.

01:26:00.510 --> 01:26:04.530
why not have a few people like yourself
on that council who can provide

01:26:04.530 --> 01:26:09.360
insight and information that might
be a contrary viewpoint, but a valid

01:26:09.360 --> 01:26:11.040
viewpoint that should be considered.

01:26:11.460 --> 01:26:16.500
I, I don't know what the current makeup
is of that advisory panel, but, um, I

01:26:16.500 --> 01:26:17.730
don't think you're on the current one.

01:26:17.730 --> 01:26:18.090
Are you?

01:26:18.780 --> 01:26:20.910
Well, no, there's no hunter groups.

01:26:20.910 --> 01:26:24.460
There's no, uh, uh, gun rights groups.

01:26:24.559 --> 01:26:26.190
The SSA is not there.

01:26:27.130 --> 01:26:28.110
CCFR is not there.

01:26:28.440 --> 01:26:35.340
Even the pro gun control groups, uh, have
withdrawn because the government would,

01:26:35.820 --> 01:26:38.130
they claim what wasn't listening to them.

01:26:38.639 --> 01:26:38.670
Mm.

01:26:38.700 --> 01:26:45.240
So the advisory committee is really most
like most of the committees there to back

01:26:45.240 --> 01:26:47.309
up what the government wants and right.

01:26:47.309 --> 01:26:49.920
If you criticize the
government, you're off, they.

01:26:50.610 --> 01:26:51.660
They'll take your advice.

01:26:51.720 --> 01:26:52.500
Yeah, exactly.

01:26:53.700 --> 01:26:54.240
I hear ya.

01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:55.200
I hear ya.

01:26:56.040 --> 01:27:00.900
Um, I'm involved with an, an advisory
group here locally and at the local

01:27:00.900 --> 01:27:05.490
level, it's smaller much better, much
better than at the, uh, and we got

01:27:05.495 --> 01:27:09.120
some, uh, some good people running
it that will listen to all sides.

01:27:09.150 --> 01:27:12.330
And who will objectively look at
the, uh, what the concerns are?

01:27:12.360 --> 01:27:18.210
I, I remember, uh, BA not to bring it
up again, but after the May 16th, 2008,

01:27:18.360 --> 01:27:24.060
uh, debacle there for the RCMP, um,
they originally, they contacted the

01:27:24.060 --> 01:27:28.860
corporation at Delta and they said,
um, we want know where all the firearms

01:27:28.860 --> 01:27:32.160
businesses are and the corporation of
Delta, which is now the city of Delta

01:27:32.160 --> 01:27:38.940
says we don't know because we cl classify
firearms businesses under, uh, what is it?

01:27:38.940 --> 01:27:39.600
Sporting goods.

01:27:39.600 --> 01:27:41.340
I think it was sporting goods.

01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:44.400
And if you're doing gunsmithing,
you're repair of like, uh,

01:27:44.430 --> 01:27:46.350
technical, uh, instruments.

01:27:46.350 --> 01:27:47.310
So it could be watches.

01:27:47.310 --> 01:27:47.700
It could be.

01:27:48.855 --> 01:27:54.075
so shortly thereafter, all it's all
over the newspapers, front page of

01:27:54.075 --> 01:27:57.435
the sun, front, front page of the
province, all the no local papers

01:27:57.435 --> 01:28:01.465
there's file photos in there that had
nothing to do with myself or Silvercore

01:28:01.490 --> 01:28:03.855
that showed just terrible things.

01:28:03.860 --> 01:28:08.595
And so the, uh, local government says,
well, geez, this is, this is pretty bad.

01:28:08.595 --> 01:28:14.475
We better take a look at maybe limiting,
um, firearms businesses within our, within

01:28:14.475 --> 01:28:16.125
our city, within the corporation of Delta.

01:28:16.545 --> 01:28:19.905
So they put a proposal forward and
they said, they're gonna grandfather

01:28:19.905 --> 01:28:23.145
the existing ones, but no new
firearms businesses allowed in.

01:28:23.145 --> 01:28:25.605
And so I, okay.

01:28:25.695 --> 01:28:33.285
I'll, I'll go to this meeting and, um,
I'll, uh, voice my two bits and I dressed

01:28:33.285 --> 01:28:37.815
up in a suit looking presentable and I had
all of my facts and all my figures and all

01:28:37.815 --> 01:28:39.585
my information and I'm going through it.

01:28:39.585 --> 01:28:41.776
And I think, uh, who was it?

01:28:42.420 --> 01:28:42.780
Barry.

01:28:42.780 --> 01:28:45.210
I think it was, uh, might, might,
might have been somebody different.

01:28:45.210 --> 01:28:48.809
He works for the, uh,
um, for the city there.

01:28:48.809 --> 01:28:50.040
He says, Travis, Travis, hold on.

01:28:50.550 --> 01:28:51.300
I'm gonna stop you.

01:28:51.660 --> 01:28:54.840
You realize we're only talking about
this because of, of you, of what

01:28:55.120 --> 01:28:56.309
happened to you like, oh, thanks.

01:28:56.309 --> 01:28:56.580
Right.

01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:58.080
You realize I've done nothing wrong.

01:28:58.080 --> 01:28:59.610
Like, like what the hell's going on here.

01:29:00.269 --> 01:29:03.720
and he says, um, but I
appreciate it as honesty.

01:29:04.080 --> 01:29:09.420
And he says, secondly, everything
you're saying, I agree with I a

01:29:09.420 --> 01:29:10.740
hundred percent agree with everything.

01:29:10.740 --> 01:29:13.380
Every point you're making a
refactor, you're saying makes sense.

01:29:13.385 --> 01:29:14.370
And I agree with it.

01:29:14.370 --> 01:29:16.530
It's got nothing to do with what
makes sense or what doesn't make

01:29:16.535 --> 01:29:22.260
sense is are we doing what we think
the, uh, our, our constituents want?

01:29:22.740 --> 01:29:27.150
And if we think that is what it is they
want, then we we'll we'll go and do it.

01:29:27.660 --> 01:29:31.260
And that was a little, that was my very
first introduction to politics, I guess.

01:29:31.260 --> 01:29:33.000
And it was a little
bit mind blowing to me.

01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:35.190
I thanked him for his
honesty on all of that.

01:29:35.430 --> 01:29:36.750
I didn't know what to say.

01:29:36.930 --> 01:29:39.420
If you agree with me and
everything I say makes sense.

01:29:39.420 --> 01:29:40.620
And everyone in the room agrees.

01:29:41.190 --> 01:29:42.630
Why are you proceeding?

01:29:42.750 --> 01:29:43.050
Yeah.

01:29:43.050 --> 01:29:43.500
Right.

01:29:43.830 --> 01:29:45.300
And it's, that's the obvious question.

01:29:45.390 --> 01:29:45.720
Right?

01:29:45.720 --> 01:29:53.360
And so governing a country as we currently
are by public opinion is damn scary.

01:29:54.210 --> 01:29:55.980
, it's really, really scary.

01:29:56.430 --> 01:29:57.360
Uh, yes.

01:29:57.360 --> 01:30:03.350
And it's it's, as you say, it's
not public opinion, but it's

01:30:03.350 --> 01:30:04.390
what perceived public opinion.

01:30:04.395 --> 01:30:07.140
It's what I think public
opinion is right on.

01:30:07.140 --> 01:30:13.304
And again, it's like,
um, Who were you asking?

01:30:13.424 --> 01:30:15.375
What, what do you mean by public?

01:30:15.434 --> 01:30:18.525
Well, I asked all my friends who I hang
out with at the, uh, that's, my friends

01:30:18.554 --> 01:30:20.745
anti-gun rallies or whatever it might be.

01:30:20.750 --> 01:30:21.044
Right.

01:30:21.254 --> 01:30:24.705
So I go back to this notion
of lore and elite, right.

01:30:24.709 --> 01:30:29.294
And the politicians talk to the
news people, the news people talk

01:30:29.294 --> 01:30:32.504
to the, the, the big businesses.

01:30:32.745 --> 01:30:37.304
The, each political party has a
Codery of people who support them.

01:30:37.365 --> 01:30:38.745
Mm-hmm , uh, the.

01:30:39.175 --> 01:30:42.595
Uh, conservatives are more
broadly based than the liberals.

01:30:42.865 --> 01:30:44.545
So who are the big money?

01:30:44.545 --> 01:30:48.385
People who are the big movers
and shakers behind the scenes.

01:30:48.715 --> 01:30:51.565
This is the public that
they're talking about.

01:30:51.565 --> 01:30:51.955
Right?

01:30:52.225 --> 01:30:58.855
And the liberal government sense
pier Trudo had this notion of

01:30:58.855 --> 01:31:01.375
astroturfing activist groups.

01:31:01.435 --> 01:31:01.465
Mm.

01:31:01.675 --> 01:31:07.645
So they fund certain groups, uh, to
claim they are popular groups, but

01:31:07.645 --> 01:31:09.505
it's all funded by the government.

01:31:09.510 --> 01:31:13.585
Mm-hmm . So it really isn't a
reflection of public opinion, but

01:31:13.590 --> 01:31:15.625
a reflection of government money.

01:31:15.745 --> 01:31:19.945
And then they count the number of groups
that they have funded as public opinion.

01:31:20.155 --> 01:31:20.185
Mm.

01:31:20.215 --> 01:31:26.365
So this is a quite complex
convoluted excuse for public opinion.

01:31:27.065 --> 01:31:27.575
you're wrong.

01:31:27.635 --> 01:31:29.735
It's not government by public opinion.

01:31:30.005 --> 01:31:32.224
It's claimed to be government

01:31:32.224 --> 01:31:33.335
by . Right.

01:31:33.545 --> 01:31:36.995
Which is really scary because people
start losing the plot pretty quickly.

01:31:36.995 --> 01:31:40.835
Even those who cuz there are some
well-intentioned people in, in politics.

01:31:41.255 --> 01:31:44.165
Um, there are some that aren't as well.

01:31:44.375 --> 01:31:47.375
Uh, but at the end of the day, people
look out for their best interests.

01:31:47.855 --> 01:31:50.375
People will take the path of
least resistance everywhere.

01:31:50.644 --> 01:31:50.934
Sure.

01:31:50.955 --> 01:31:51.965
And it's human nature.

01:31:51.965 --> 01:31:55.804
And if we expect human nature to
be any different between you and I

01:31:55.835 --> 01:31:58.625
or our elected officials or those
who are charged with enforcing it.

01:31:59.445 --> 01:32:01.335
We're sorely mistaken there.

01:32:01.365 --> 01:32:02.625
There's just gonna be different.

01:32:02.775 --> 01:32:06.705
There could be different levels as
to where that, uh, in it for myself

01:32:06.705 --> 01:32:08.355
is as we talked about earlier.

01:32:08.385 --> 01:32:08.805
And so

01:32:08.810 --> 01:32:12.735
it becomes really important how
the structure of government has

01:32:12.735 --> 01:32:15.255
been conceived and, and directed.

01:32:15.645 --> 01:32:17.655
Canada is very centralized.

01:32:18.045 --> 01:32:24.225
Ontario essentially runs the place and
it has to buy off a few people in Quebec

01:32:24.225 --> 01:32:28.995
and a few people in the Maritimes,
maybe a few people in BC and that's it.

01:32:29.135 --> 01:32:33.615
Mm-hmm  and Ontario is run by
the ranch and elite and they

01:32:33.620 --> 01:32:35.955
are run by a few power shakers.

01:32:36.255 --> 01:32:36.795
So.

01:32:37.309 --> 01:32:42.769
If you were in Nova Scotia, Manitoba
or British Columbia, and you're not

01:32:42.769 --> 01:32:49.040
happy, how do you mobilize a group
of people strong enough to make your

01:32:49.070 --> 01:32:52.490
concerns, uh, heard and respected?

01:32:53.030 --> 01:32:56.480
Uh, that's very, very difficult,
but the nature of the structure.

01:32:56.990 --> 01:32:57.139
But

01:32:57.139 --> 01:33:02.330
last time that I recall that they properly
mobilized that group was called terrorists

01:33:03.170 --> 01:33:07.370
and the emergency act was brought in
because they had a dissenting opinion and

01:33:07.759 --> 01:33:09.349
they said, well, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:33:09.349 --> 01:33:11.750
It's cuz they're disrupting
the supply chain.

01:33:11.755 --> 01:33:15.860
And then the time of COVID and the
time of crisis, the supply chain is

01:33:15.865 --> 01:33:17.660
important and we have to uphold that.

01:33:17.780 --> 01:33:20.059
And what happened like a
couple weeks later, wasn't it?

01:33:20.059 --> 01:33:22.580
The, uh, the train strike,
was it CN, rail strike?

01:33:22.759 --> 01:33:25.190
Did the government jump in to yes.

01:33:25.190 --> 01:33:26.599
Help out that supply chain a

01:33:27.620 --> 01:33:30.110
and, and certain groups are untouchable.

01:33:30.259 --> 01:33:30.530
Mm.

01:33:30.590 --> 01:33:39.800
And so, uh, Aboriginal, uh, and BLM and,
uh, certain other groups can do, can

01:33:39.800 --> 01:33:47.570
violate the law block, block, uh, trains
block, uh, government, but not people

01:33:47.570 --> 01:33:49.759
who are in the freedom trucker convoy.

01:33:50.269 --> 01:33:51.290
Uh, and so.

01:33:52.040 --> 01:33:56.330
This is different, uh, uh,
enforcement of the law.

01:33:56.330 --> 01:33:58.130
And that's very scary itself

01:33:58.580 --> 01:34:03.410
that just comes down to what's
politically acceptable to villainize

01:34:03.410 --> 01:34:08.210
or to act upon and what would be
exactly expedient to, to get behind.

01:34:08.270 --> 01:34:13.695
And that's, I mean, at some
point, This pendulum will shift.

01:34:14.025 --> 01:34:15.945
I mean, it's gonna have to, I would

01:34:15.945 --> 01:34:18.735
think, well ruled by the elite.

01:34:19.455 --> 01:34:22.605
Uh, I mean, everywhere in the
world, government is a small number.

01:34:22.605 --> 01:34:26.415
There's very few people actually run on
the thing mm-hmm , but in countries like

01:34:26.415 --> 01:34:33.135
the Commonwealth, where the commoners
accept the rule by the elite, or at

01:34:33.135 --> 01:34:40.335
least tolerate, or at least grumble
quietly and bury their guns, uh, that

01:34:40.335 --> 01:34:47.325
is much less likely to lead to, uh,
uh, any kind of public discussion, uh,

01:34:47.330 --> 01:34:51.015
opposition until the thing explodes.

01:34:51.105 --> 01:34:53.565
Mm-hmm . And it may not explode.

01:34:53.595 --> 01:34:59.175
It may not explode, uh, many
governments, uh, learn how to just

01:34:59.295 --> 01:35:03.585
let out a little bit of pressure on
this pressure cooker until they keep,

01:35:03.585 --> 01:35:05.235
keep running the thing or divert

01:35:05.235 --> 01:35:05.715
attention.

01:35:06.315 --> 01:35:06.405
right.

01:35:07.155 --> 01:35:12.405
So it depends how clever the government
is, uh, or how much they can buy off,

01:35:13.185 --> 01:35:18.315
uh, oppositions around the world find
that some of their key politicians

01:35:18.320 --> 01:35:21.585
are owned by the O the other party.

01:35:21.885 --> 01:35:24.945
And, and that's that's standard politics.

01:35:24.945 --> 01:35:25.215
Sure.

01:35:25.220 --> 01:35:27.255
It is man.

01:35:27.405 --> 01:35:30.105
You know, so anyway, uh, I'm
not sure this is uplifting.

01:35:30.135 --> 01:35:31.005
No, I know.

01:35:31.005 --> 01:35:31.185
You

01:35:31.185 --> 01:35:35.805
know, , uh, it, it's interesting and
it's important I think to talk about,

01:35:35.805 --> 01:35:40.785
and I really think it's important to
have a, um, a better understanding.

01:35:41.025 --> 01:35:43.725
You've obviously looked at
these issues from a very.

01:35:44.390 --> 01:35:47.450
Um, broad level and a
very acute level, right?

01:35:47.690 --> 01:35:51.920
Uh, you've you've, uh, delved into
certain areas very, very deeply.

01:35:51.920 --> 01:35:59.000
And you have a lot to say on it in the, in
the area of, of, um, firearms and firearms

01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:01.250
control and the, and the means thereof.

01:36:01.730 --> 01:36:02.900
You're an expert.

01:36:02.990 --> 01:36:04.430
That's, that's what you do.

01:36:04.790 --> 01:36:05.210
Wow.

01:36:05.809 --> 01:36:09.349
Any lawyer knows that, uh,
you can find an expert on all

01:36:09.349 --> 01:36:10.940
sides of the question, right?

01:36:10.940 --> 01:36:15.890
So I may have spent a, a lot of time
and energy studying, but I am just

01:36:15.890 --> 01:36:20.809
one voice and one person trying to
figure out to the best of my ability

01:36:20.809 --> 01:36:24.900
what's going on, but certainly there
are other people with other ideas.

01:36:25.090 --> 01:36:30.410
What advice would you have for people
who are saying, look at enough's enough,

01:36:30.620 --> 01:36:32.570
we gotta have our voice heard some way.

01:36:34.680 --> 01:36:38.250
well, the first thing is
to make that decision.

01:36:38.910 --> 01:36:42.750
And many people don't even get
that far, uh, because going

01:36:42.750 --> 01:36:44.910
along to get along is easier.

01:36:45.120 --> 01:36:49.110
You've got a job, you've got a
family, you've got career goals.

01:36:49.115 --> 01:36:56.380
And, and if, if it's, if guns are just
a hobby or politics is just a, a, a

01:36:56.385 --> 01:37:01.410
Facebook place to say nasty thing,
uh, then, then people don't even get.

01:37:02.070 --> 01:37:04.590
To that question, which
is the crucial, right?

01:37:04.650 --> 01:37:10.110
Then once you do decide, then you
have to decide what is reasonable.

01:37:10.410 --> 01:37:15.900
And since there are already groups
around that, that have decided that

01:37:15.900 --> 01:37:19.500
they, what they think is reasonable,
then you should assess them.

01:37:19.740 --> 01:37:25.830
So, uh, in the gun area, look at the
NFA, look at the CS, S a look at the

01:37:25.830 --> 01:37:31.380
CC F R get involved, find out what
they're doing, send them some money,

01:37:31.710 --> 01:37:35.400
uh, be critical, uh, uh, listen to them.

01:37:35.970 --> 01:37:39.180
Every group has strengths and weaknesses.

01:37:39.690 --> 01:37:44.400
Because they're human and see
which one Accords, which group

01:37:44.400 --> 01:37:49.170
Accords most closely to your own
interests and you think is effective.

01:37:49.650 --> 01:37:54.750
Uh, make sure they're financially
honest because in a world of, of

01:37:54.750 --> 01:38:01.590
ignorant peasants, uh, CSNs, uh, find,
uh, lots of business opportunities.

01:38:01.650 --> 01:38:06.750
Mm-hmm  so, uh, I'm I don't
know that any of the groups I've

01:38:06.750 --> 01:38:10.530
mentioned are Charltons, I'm just
saying that one should make sure

01:38:10.530 --> 01:38:12.480
that they, their books are public.

01:38:12.750 --> 01:38:18.900
Make sure that, uh, uh, what their
actions are known and evaluate him smart.

01:38:18.930 --> 01:38:20.550
Uh, and then.

01:38:22.170 --> 01:38:27.840
Put your best effort involved and,
uh, and help out join political

01:38:27.840 --> 01:38:30.600
parties, join two or three.

01:38:31.050 --> 01:38:32.310
See what they're about.

01:38:32.490 --> 01:38:35.880
Uh, how do they listen to the grassroots?

01:38:35.880 --> 01:38:38.010
How do they listen to their leaders?

01:38:38.370 --> 01:38:40.380
What can you do to be influential?

01:38:40.380 --> 01:38:41.100
Pick one?

01:38:41.530 --> 01:38:41.750
Mm.

01:38:42.000 --> 01:38:44.460
Put some time, energy and money into it.

01:38:44.790 --> 01:38:46.170
Will you change the universe?

01:38:46.170 --> 01:38:46.440
No,

01:38:49.050 --> 01:38:51.300
no, but little by little, right?

01:38:51.300 --> 01:38:53.640
How do you, how do you eat
an elephant one bite at a

01:38:53.645 --> 01:38:53.880
time.

01:38:53.880 --> 01:38:58.350
And, and if you don't, if you see Canada
and don't like it go someplace else.

01:38:58.560 --> 01:38:58.710
Yeah.

01:38:58.710 --> 01:38:59.940
Or, or, or change it.

01:39:00.030 --> 01:39:00.090
Yeah.

01:39:00.090 --> 01:39:03.810
I mean, there's lots of places in the
universe that are, that are tolerable.

01:39:04.020 --> 01:39:05.670
I've lived in a couple of countries.

01:39:05.670 --> 01:39:06.570
I like France.

01:39:06.570 --> 01:39:07.470
I liked England.

01:39:07.475 --> 01:39:08.760
I liked the United States.

01:39:08.765 --> 01:39:11.040
Uh mm-hmm  I like Canada.

01:39:11.040 --> 01:39:13.920
I mean, uh, there's lots of good places.

01:39:13.920 --> 01:39:16.200
Costa Rica, Singapore, Korea.

01:39:16.200 --> 01:39:18.570
There's all kinds of really
nice countries in their world.

01:39:18.590 --> 01:39:20.770
Mm-hmm  uh, which one suits you.

01:39:21.299 --> 01:39:21.660
Yeah.

01:39:22.259 --> 01:39:25.559
I remember reading a book many years
ago, supposed to be banned in Canada.

01:39:25.559 --> 01:39:26.759
I think we call it PT.

01:39:27.089 --> 01:39:30.120
It was basically just tax evasion
was, was the book, but it was

01:39:30.210 --> 01:39:34.530
sold under a philosophy of, uh,
being what a perpetual traveler.

01:39:34.589 --> 01:39:34.679
Yeah.

01:39:34.679 --> 01:39:38.339
Or it didn't stand for anything, but
it had a bunch of, and what, one of

01:39:38.339 --> 01:39:42.509
the precepts of it was, you know, if
you really like a certain thing and

01:39:42.509 --> 01:39:45.809
you can't do that in your country,
what's holding you there really?

01:39:46.349 --> 01:39:47.519
Um, that's right.

01:39:47.730 --> 01:39:48.150
So

01:39:48.750 --> 01:39:54.839
interesting is there, so, I mean,
I, my, my recipes get involved.

01:39:55.669 --> 01:39:58.440
Uh, I wasn't a gun person when I started.

01:39:58.980 --> 01:40:01.860
And my curiosity got me
to learn more or more.

01:40:02.250 --> 01:40:04.710
And so I began collecting guns.

01:40:04.710 --> 01:40:05.849
I began hunting.

01:40:05.849 --> 01:40:10.050
I began, uh, target shooting,
and I discovered how much

01:40:10.054 --> 01:40:11.790
fun and enjoyable it was.

01:40:12.240 --> 01:40:17.370
Um, I was shocked that the people
at the Barnett rifle club were

01:40:17.370 --> 01:40:21.900
perfectly reasonable if, if different
than my university professors.

01:40:22.230 --> 01:40:26.429
And eventually I discovered
that, uh, they made more sense.

01:40:26.429 --> 01:40:27.780
They were just rational.

01:40:28.260 --> 01:40:29.010
Good sense.

01:40:29.010 --> 01:40:34.370
Kind of salt of the earth people
mm-hmm . Uh, and so I got involved

01:40:34.920 --> 01:40:36.809
and started thinking about things.

01:40:37.320 --> 01:40:42.599
Uh, and again, I'm a professor I write,
I think, uh, I criticize that's my, my

01:40:43.130 --> 01:40:45.540
major contribution to any of this mm-hmm

01:40:47.429 --> 01:40:49.469
is there anything else that
we should be bringing up?

01:40:50.820 --> 01:40:54.000
Well, one of the things I've.

01:40:54.660 --> 01:40:59.790
Developed is, uh, the BC w
F political action Alliance.

01:40:59.940 --> 01:41:00.389
Right?

01:41:00.750 --> 01:41:02.460
I, I wear three hats.

01:41:03.000 --> 01:41:07.980
The professor hat is what we spent
today talking about, but I'm also a

01:41:07.980 --> 01:41:12.719
volunteer with BC wildlife mm-hmm  and
I chair their firearms committee.

01:41:13.170 --> 01:41:18.629
And that is essentially, uh,
educating the membership and

01:41:18.629 --> 01:41:20.460
motivating them to get involved.

01:41:20.490 --> 01:41:24.480
Like I just argued here mm-hmm
that they should get involved in.

01:41:24.480 --> 01:41:28.650
And the BC WF is one way
to stand up for hunters.

01:41:28.679 --> 01:41:34.679
Mm-hmm . Um, one of my colleagues in B CW
w F uh, uh, has worked really hard with

01:41:34.679 --> 01:41:44.820
bill for BC, uh government's uh, bill and,
uh, they, the BCW F is mostly interested

01:41:44.820 --> 01:41:52.259
in the impact of this legislation on
gun clubs, but both C 71 C 21 as well.

01:41:52.889 --> 01:41:59.700
Bill C four, uh, enlarge
the red flag laws.

01:41:59.790 --> 01:41:59.940
Mm.

01:42:00.360 --> 01:42:05.849
And I find this incredibly scary on the
grounds that we were talking earlier,

01:42:06.090 --> 01:42:07.769
that you may have nothing to hide.

01:42:07.769 --> 01:42:12.750
You may be a completely honest, upstanding
people, but you could be slandered.

01:42:12.990 --> 01:42:14.820
You can be caught in trouble.

01:42:15.269 --> 01:42:19.050
A red flag erases all.

01:42:21.434 --> 01:42:27.945
Judicial defenses for having your guns
taken away and your freedom taken away.

01:42:28.005 --> 01:42:28.485
Right?

01:42:28.695 --> 01:42:34.245
Uh, we're not talking just about angry
ex-wives or ex-husbands, we're not

01:42:34.245 --> 01:42:38.235
talking about doctors who don't know
anything about guns, but all social

01:42:39.675 --> 01:42:40.605
workers, any government employee.

01:42:41.105 --> 01:42:46.575
Can or any person who knows one of these
can't claim that you are dangerous.

01:42:46.905 --> 01:42:51.375
And on the basis of that, a
police can come take all your

01:42:51.375 --> 01:42:52.875
guns and put you in jail.

01:42:52.934 --> 01:42:56.115
Mm-hmm  and now you have to
defend that you are not dangerous.

01:42:56.115 --> 01:42:58.275
That is very scary and get your guns back.

01:42:58.544 --> 01:42:59.355
Very scary.

01:42:59.474 --> 01:43:02.745
And, and it's very scary
because however, not dangerous.

01:43:02.745 --> 01:43:08.775
You are with the demonization of guns,
uh, normal people who know nothing

01:43:08.775 --> 01:43:11.355
about guns can easily be frightened.

01:43:11.565 --> 01:43:11.894
Sure.

01:43:12.044 --> 01:43:15.195
Uh, it wasn't just public theater.

01:43:15.315 --> 01:43:22.304
When you ran into a police, uh, uh,
uh, charges, they had SWAT teams, they

01:43:22.304 --> 01:43:27.075
had armed people all around, partly
for theater, but partly because some of

01:43:27.080 --> 01:43:28.544
those people were actually frightened.

01:43:28.544 --> 01:43:28.634
They're

01:43:28.634 --> 01:43:29.115
fearful.

01:43:29.174 --> 01:43:29.565
Sure.

01:43:29.990 --> 01:43:34.520
And in my circumstance, you know,
if I responded differently than

01:43:34.520 --> 01:43:37.550
somebody else, would've it could
have been a very different situation.

01:43:37.550 --> 01:43:38.000
That's right.

01:43:38.330 --> 01:43:41.510
I just looked at this and in the back
of my head, I was kind of like laughing.

01:43:41.510 --> 01:43:42.740
Like, they're gonna figure this out.

01:43:42.830 --> 01:43:45.200
And like, these are people
I work with all the time.

01:43:45.440 --> 01:43:47.300
They'll, they'll, they'll
figure it out in a second.

01:43:47.305 --> 01:43:48.620
They're they must be falling up.

01:43:48.620 --> 01:43:50.150
I had no idea what was going on.

01:43:50.150 --> 01:43:55.400
It took long time and the amount of
money and resources I was put into

01:43:55.850 --> 01:43:57.860
trying to double down on that lie.

01:43:58.370 --> 01:44:00.380
It was pretty impressive.

01:44:00.410 --> 01:44:03.830
I mean, the amount they knew within the
first couple hours, they made a mistake.

01:44:04.070 --> 01:44:08.480
They knew definitively within the
first three days, they made a mistake.

01:44:08.480 --> 01:44:10.430
And by the end of the week,
they had it written that

01:44:10.430 --> 01:44:12.260
they'd, they'd really messed up.

01:44:12.530 --> 01:44:16.940
Still spent eight years trying to
double down and, and, uh, uh, cover

01:44:16.945 --> 01:44:24.710
up the mistake, which is, um, with
that sort of intention and mindset.

01:44:25.190 --> 01:44:28.640
It can very easily go astray
in the heat of the moment.

01:44:29.745 --> 01:44:30.945
Some people get angry.

01:44:31.095 --> 01:44:32.025
Some people get angry.

01:44:32.055 --> 01:44:37.245
Uh, I knew one, I know one person,
an ex policeman who objected to

01:44:37.250 --> 01:44:43.515
this new hydro meters, uh, and he
thought that they were a violation.

01:44:43.519 --> 01:44:47.775
And so he objected angrily to
a hydro worker coming onto his

01:44:47.775 --> 01:44:49.815
property to change the meter.

01:44:49.875 --> 01:44:50.085
Mm.

01:44:50.445 --> 01:44:53.565
That led to his guns being
confiscated, he'd being arrested.

01:44:54.015 --> 01:44:59.025
And, uh, he had to fight to, uh, get
both his guns back and his freedom.

01:44:59.535 --> 01:44:59.565
Mm.

01:44:59.625 --> 01:45:03.915
Uh, so if people get angry
and they resist either through

01:45:03.920 --> 01:45:06.315
arrogance ignorance, or just.

01:45:07.169 --> 01:45:09.030
Uh, a wrong response.

01:45:09.360 --> 01:45:10.860
Things can go bad very

01:45:11.429 --> 01:45:11.849
quickly.

01:45:12.150 --> 01:45:15.000
That's one thing that I found within
the fires community in Canada,

01:45:15.419 --> 01:45:20.519
by and large, the option to get
angry seems greatly diminished.

01:45:20.610 --> 01:45:25.530
People are, are very, very cognizant
of the fact that their anger could

01:45:25.530 --> 01:45:29.639
be either a mm-hmm  well, it could
be misconstrued intentionally or.

01:45:29.970 --> 01:45:33.150
Yeah, unintentionally, someone can
just be afraid of firearms or they

01:45:33.150 --> 01:45:35.730
can say, aha, I'll use this tool now.

01:45:35.940 --> 01:45:39.720
And in fact, there's this red flag law,
maybe I can lean on and do something with,

01:45:40.080 --> 01:45:42.540
well, that's, that's
been my impression too.

01:45:42.540 --> 01:45:47.460
Um, so many of the people I know who
own guns are incredibly responsible.

01:45:47.580 --> 01:45:51.660
Mm-hmm, , I've taken media people to
the range to introduce 'em to guns.

01:45:51.809 --> 01:45:56.160
And so they shoot rifle, shotgun
handgun, and I've had a couple of,

01:45:56.190 --> 01:46:00.300
uh, reporters who cheeks flush.

01:46:00.599 --> 01:46:02.010
They're so excited.

01:46:02.220 --> 01:46:07.650
It, it, it looks sexual that
they are just so emotionally

01:46:07.650 --> 01:46:09.450
involved with shooting a firearm.

01:46:09.630 --> 01:46:12.720
And I don't see that kind of thing
with, we don't understand that.

01:46:13.230 --> 01:46:13.559
Right.

01:46:13.830 --> 01:46:16.620
And, and, and you and I talked
to 'em afterwards and they said,

01:46:16.920 --> 01:46:19.110
whoa, a gun gives me so much power.

01:46:19.110 --> 01:46:20.730
I feel like I could kill anybody.

01:46:20.910 --> 01:46:22.889
I feel like I'm the boss of the universe.

01:46:23.040 --> 01:46:28.200
And I think the gun owners, I know don't
feel like that they feel nobody humble.

01:46:28.650 --> 01:46:32.580
They feel responsible
and in awe of the power.

01:46:32.670 --> 01:46:32.760
Right.

01:46:32.760 --> 01:46:39.300
But that means response maturity
and, and, and therefore they

01:46:39.305 --> 01:46:41.580
don't get all emotional and crazy.

01:46:41.610 --> 01:46:42.210
Right.

01:46:42.720 --> 01:46:47.490
I've, I've actually seen the exact same
thing with, with, uh, new folks to the

01:46:47.495 --> 01:46:53.370
range and reported typically people who
are, uh, adamantly against firearms,

01:46:53.370 --> 01:46:58.740
but they acquiesce to the, uh, to the
invitation to show that they're a good

01:46:58.740 --> 01:47:05.490
sport and that same statement, that
feeling of power when it was in my hands,

01:47:05.610 --> 01:47:10.349
I have never, ever felt a feeling of
power by holding a firearm in my hand.

01:47:10.349 --> 01:47:12.000
And I don't know anybody who does

01:47:12.269 --> 01:47:12.360
well.

01:47:12.710 --> 01:47:14.010
I, I feel the responsibility,

01:47:14.010 --> 01:47:14.040
a

01:47:14.040 --> 01:47:16.830
responsibility, and that's
a power if you wish.

01:47:17.070 --> 01:47:17.430
Okay.

01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:25.290
Uh, Gary click in, in his 1997 book on
guns in America has this notion that

01:47:25.290 --> 01:47:27.900
the purpose of a gun is not killing.

01:47:29.594 --> 01:47:36.525
The basic design feature, the basic
justification for a gun is power.

01:47:37.245 --> 01:47:37.455
Hmm.

01:47:37.514 --> 01:47:42.764
That it gives you power to do things
that you couldn't otherwise do.

01:47:43.245 --> 01:47:43.394
Hmm.

01:47:43.394 --> 01:47:47.804
So governments with guns have
power mm-hmm  revolutionaries

01:47:47.804 --> 01:47:50.384
with guns, have power criminals.

01:47:50.684 --> 01:47:55.005
Uh, people defending
themselves have guns for power.

01:47:55.245 --> 01:48:00.165
So obviously power isn't necessarily
a bad thing or a necessary good thing.

01:48:00.465 --> 01:48:00.495
Mm.

01:48:00.525 --> 01:48:01.695
But it's power.

01:48:01.695 --> 01:48:02.144
Mm.

01:48:02.235 --> 01:48:03.675
Uh, you can defend yourself.

01:48:04.695 --> 01:48:09.735
A small hundred pound dripping
wet woman with a gun in her purse

01:48:09.735 --> 01:48:12.315
can stop a 250 pound rapist.

01:48:12.555 --> 01:48:12.975
Yes.

01:48:13.575 --> 01:48:20.265
Um, a hunter who's 250 pounds, uh, with
a rifle can stop a thousand pound Mo.

01:48:20.805 --> 01:48:22.905
Yes, this is power.

01:48:23.144 --> 01:48:31.635
So it's not, uh, ecstatic,
crazy power, like my, my media

01:48:31.640 --> 01:48:36.545
example, but a responsibility
that is comes with maturity.

01:48:36.855 --> 01:48:41.235
Mm-hmm  so the people I think we know
who have firearms licenses, American

01:48:41.235 --> 01:48:45.015
and Canadian have a different level
of maturity for that matter or British

01:48:45.015 --> 01:48:49.665
the ones I know anyway, mm-hmm, , uh,
certainly, uh, have responsibility

01:48:49.905 --> 01:48:52.425
and can use these powers responsibly.

01:48:52.840 --> 01:48:56.800
What's that old saying God made
man, but Sam Colt made man equal

01:48:58.330 --> 01:48:58.480
yeah.

01:48:58.480 --> 01:49:01.450
Colonel Colt Colonel Colt
made, um, very equal.

01:49:01.510 --> 01:49:04.630
Anyway, I would like to add
political action Alliance among the

01:49:04.900 --> 01:49:08.890
groups that people should consider
supporting the political action

01:49:08.895 --> 01:49:15.790
Alliance is, uh, only function is
to run, uh, pro gun anti-liberal.

01:49:16.495 --> 01:49:19.135
Election ads during election campaigns.

01:49:19.165 --> 01:49:19.195
Mm.

01:49:19.735 --> 01:49:26.545
Uh, we have been in existence since
the nineties and each federal election.

01:49:26.545 --> 01:49:31.555
We run ads to the extent of our
budget, which is microscopic sure.

01:49:31.705 --> 01:49:37.615
Uh, and we, uh, inform people
that, uh, gun laws are useless

01:49:37.855 --> 01:49:41.665
and the liberals are wasting your
taxpayer money when they could do

01:49:41.665 --> 01:49:43.975
something that actually is useful.

01:49:43.975 --> 01:49:49.615
Like yes, improve healthcare, uh, keep,
keep violent people in jail longer.

01:49:49.620 --> 01:49:52.885
Mm-hmm  help violent
people become less violent.

01:49:52.890 --> 01:49:55.555
Mm-hmm , uh, there's a lot
of things that could be done.

01:49:55.945 --> 01:50:01.705
Um, but the, the gun control is really
not a step in any of those directions.

01:50:01.765 --> 01:50:02.305
I agree.

01:50:03.685 --> 01:50:06.195
Well, I think that's an excellent thing.

01:50:06.225 --> 01:50:09.225
I'm gonna put links to that in
the podcast so people can see it.

01:50:09.345 --> 01:50:11.565
We can, uh, both on YouTube.

01:50:11.565 --> 01:50:14.775
You can take a look at the link
section, they'll link to these different

01:50:14.780 --> 01:50:15.165
things.

01:50:15.285 --> 01:50:20.385
I, I can give you a link, uh,
to justice for gun owners.ca.

01:50:20.505 --> 01:50:20.775
Okay.

01:50:20.985 --> 01:50:27.615
That's uh, the website that I use to
ask for money, ask for contributions and

01:50:27.615 --> 01:50:33.435
put down my long winded, statistically,
uh, stuffed, uh, commentary.

01:50:34.665 --> 01:50:35.865
uh, it's fantastic.

01:50:36.465 --> 01:50:40.755
Well, Gary, thank you so very much
for being on the Silvercore Podcast,.

01:50:40.760 --> 01:50:42.285
I really, really appreciate it.

01:50:42.345 --> 01:50:46.125
I love chatting with you and,
uh, I'm hoping we'll have more

01:50:46.125 --> 01:50:47.325
chats like this in the future.

01:50:47.715 --> 01:50:47.925
Well,

01:50:47.925 --> 01:50:48.945
thank you for having me.

01:50:48.950 --> 01:50:49.845
I enjoyed it.

01:50:49.845 --> 01:50:55.845
Uh, I hope, uh, uh, it was interesting
and I didn't just flap my gums

01:50:55.875 --> 01:50:57.735
too much and hope people enjoy it.