WEBVTT 00:00:00.060 --> 00:00:02.449 Fabian Marrone: Academic freedom is at the core of what we do. 00:00:02.810 --> 00:00:13.075 And you have to be willing to tell the story of the entirety of the institution, and we're here to serve the public good. 00:00:13.084 --> 00:00:13.775 It's our job. 00:00:13.784 --> 00:00:24.315 If we haven't given people the opportunity to hear that academic voice, to understand that research, to understand that expertise, then we haven't done our job. 00:00:25.795 --> 00:00:30.705 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:31.365 --> 00:00:36.915 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company, where we help university podcasters level up. 00:00:37.515 --> 00:00:41.805 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of JPod Creations, podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:41.865 --> 00:00:43.635 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:43.635 --> 00:00:48.675 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and we can all learn from each other. 00:00:48.735 --> 00:01:04.245 Neil McPhedran: Don't forget to check out HigherEdPods.com where we are building a community of higher education podcasters, and we actually almost had a thousand university podcasts in the network, the directory that we've created there. 00:01:04.255 --> 00:01:07.215 So yeah, it's, we're growing it every week. 00:01:07.305 --> 00:01:12.204 Jennifer-Lee: And it lets us discover great new podcasts like the one we interviewed today. 00:01:12.505 --> 00:01:13.255 Neil McPhedran: That's right. 00:01:13.554 --> 00:01:27.544 But before we get there, we gotta remember to remind everyone preregistration is open for the Higher Ed Pod Con in Chicago in July, July 12th. 00:01:28.025 --> 00:01:35.295 And that URL for preregistration is Higher Ed Pod Con, HigherEdPodCon.com. 00:01:35.965 --> 00:01:37.164 Hope to see you there. 00:01:37.675 --> 00:01:42.700 And yes, Jen, we talked to our first Australian podcast in this episode. 00:01:42.710 --> 00:01:43.369 Jennifer-Lee: Down Under. 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:45.220 Neil McPhedran: Down Under. 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:53.799 We had a really great conversation with Susan and Fabian from Monash University, which is in the Melbourne area. 00:01:53.930 --> 00:02:04.854 And their podcast, What Happens Next, which is for the whole university, this is sort of one of their key communication channels for the whole university, actually. 00:02:05.134 --> 00:02:06.555 Jennifer-Lee: And it's so unique. 00:02:06.555 --> 00:02:07.705 It's so gutsy. 00:02:07.705 --> 00:02:08.285 I love it. 00:02:08.295 --> 00:02:11.214 The topics they have, you wouldn't even think of. 00:02:11.565 --> 00:02:20.185 It's not your typical podcast that we've been interviewing, where it looks at academia, looks at different things that are going around on campus. 00:02:20.185 --> 00:02:23.545 This one is like, what's going to happen with climate change? 00:02:23.545 --> 00:02:25.028 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, big, hairy topics. 00:02:25.028 --> 00:02:25.516 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 00:02:25.516 --> 00:02:33.870 Like the one that I looked into, which I'm really fascinated right now is like, just people being angry and getting upset with everybody. 00:02:33.880 --> 00:02:38.130 So just like road rage or just walking on the street and how everybody's angry. 00:02:38.140 --> 00:02:39.880 So they do a lot of different topics. 00:02:40.355 --> 00:02:42.605 Neil McPhedran: Because Susan and Fabian have such great accents. 00:02:42.605 --> 00:02:44.515 We're just going to let them introduce themselves. 00:02:44.905 --> 00:02:45.445 Jennifer-Lee: Love it. 00:02:45.555 --> 00:02:46.475 Let's get into it. 00:02:47.511 --> 00:02:49.831 Dr. Susan Carland: Hello, my name is Susan Carland. 00:02:49.881 --> 00:02:52.531 I am an academic at Monash university. 00:02:52.531 --> 00:02:55.051 I am a sociologist at Monash university. 00:02:55.091 --> 00:02:57.771 I specialize actually in the sociology of religion. 00:02:58.071 --> 00:03:01.411 I am part of the What Happens Next podcast. 00:03:01.451 --> 00:03:03.911 I have the least important role, which is I'm the host. 00:03:03.921 --> 00:03:10.226 I'm the shop front, but all the important work is done behind the scenes by other much more impressive, thoughtful people. 00:03:11.061 --> 00:03:23.311 And the podcast, What Happens Next, the title kind of implies what it's about, which is, we were really curious to look at, there's all these big challenges facing the world, sometimes called wicked problems. 00:03:23.751 --> 00:03:33.771 And in many ways, it feels like the world or certain countries in the world or certain societies, are careening down this one way direction of a highway. 00:03:34.381 --> 00:03:39.661 It looks like things are getting worse and there can be this sense of doom and gloom that we all have. 00:03:39.671 --> 00:03:40.641 Things are not getting better. 00:03:40.641 --> 00:03:41.951 Why are these not improving? 00:03:42.221 --> 00:03:44.981 What happens if we don't fix these things? 00:03:44.991 --> 00:03:46.601 Like how bad could things get? 00:03:47.181 --> 00:03:55.511 But similarly, working at a university, we're surrounded by people whose whole lives and their jobs are about trying to solve and tackle these wicked problem. 00:03:56.141 --> 00:04:00.911 And actually they have great ideas about how things can be changed and things can be fixed. 00:04:01.111 --> 00:04:07.096 What Happens Next is also about, it's an exploration of what happens if we don't change, but what happens if we do? 00:04:07.356 --> 00:04:18.526 What happens if we use these great realizations, revelations, discoveries, inventions that are awash at every university and learning institution and, and think tanks and all these places. 00:04:18.846 --> 00:04:21.636 What if we actually implement what they're saying can fix things? 00:04:21.806 --> 00:04:23.346 How could the world look different? 00:04:24.176 --> 00:04:24.876 Jennifer-Lee: I love it. 00:04:24.936 --> 00:04:28.496 And Fabian, how did you get started with this podcast? 00:04:29.346 --> 00:04:31.686 And how did you come up with different topics? 00:04:31.866 --> 00:04:32.476 Fabian Marrone: Thank you, Jen. 00:04:32.476 --> 00:04:33.046 And thank you, Neil. 00:04:33.046 --> 00:04:35.296 Thanks for having us here today. 00:04:35.366 --> 00:04:44.056 Um, my name is Fabian Marrone, I'm the Chief Marketing, Admissions and Communications Officer and I'm the Interim Chief Executive Officer of Monash College. 00:04:44.146 --> 00:04:53.826 Um, in 2016, 2017, we explored the university's, uh, brand value proposition and therefore it's positioning out to the world. 00:04:54.016 --> 00:04:57.471 And we came up with something called, if you don't like it, change it. 00:04:57.731 --> 00:05:03.221 It's kind of a rallying cry and saying, you know, the world's at a particular injunction. 00:05:03.261 --> 00:05:21.421 And if you want to come somewhere to make change, or you see a problem in the world, Monash is the place to come as an educator to create change, as a student, as a researcher, professional staff member, or really just as a community to find different avenues to create change than those that are typically in the mainstream. 00:05:22.031 --> 00:05:24.931 What Happens Next is, it's almost an extension of that. 00:05:25.331 --> 00:05:36.631 We highlighted a lot of, as you know, Susan has explored wicked problems, grand challenges, climate change and geopolitical insecurity, all of those things within that brand campaign. 00:05:36.951 --> 00:05:40.861 But What Happens Next kind of brings it to a different level and a different perspective. 00:05:40.891 --> 00:05:48.121 It looks at the trajectory of possibilities in the future depending the decisions we make as a human race. 00:05:48.131 --> 00:05:51.091 So if we make this decision, this is the outcome. 00:05:51.091 --> 00:05:54.901 If we make a different decision, the outcome could be totally different. 00:05:54.951 --> 00:06:05.181 And it explores that in a way that also then gives really practical advice on how you can contribute to creating positive change towards some really wicked problems. 00:06:05.651 --> 00:06:16.681 So it actually brings that really big, not only brand idea and purpose of why universities are there to serve the public interest and highlight it, but it says, this is the way you can make change. 00:06:16.681 --> 00:06:20.571 And that in some cases, isn't coming to a university to create that change. 00:06:20.601 --> 00:06:23.471 It's doing some really practical things in your life. 00:06:23.896 --> 00:06:28.186 And it just appeals to different audiences in, in different locations. 00:06:28.186 --> 00:06:45.862 And I think, you know, the, the complexities around how you come up with topic areas, I think this is as much about content curation as it is about the news cycle, as it is about things that are important to our community and our people, but also things that are important to the world. 00:06:45.862 --> 00:06:48.981 So ideas have come from in and about everywhere. 00:06:48.981 --> 00:06:53.021 They come from academics who are doing amazing work and research at Monash. 00:06:53.441 --> 00:07:00.301 They come at really difficult times, um, in society and climate change and different things. 00:07:00.301 --> 00:07:05.041 They come up with and align with newsworthy or big moments in time. 00:07:05.331 --> 00:07:08.441 Um, so there's a whole different range that these topics come up. 00:07:08.481 --> 00:07:17.251 And Susan is central to some of the, the topics that come to mind in her role as a, not only an academic, but someone who's an integral part of Australian society. 00:07:17.451 --> 00:07:20.231 And so we get a lot of ideas for a lot of different places. 00:07:21.021 --> 00:07:24.291 I guess my role in that is part of the curation of those ideas. 00:07:24.441 --> 00:07:27.451 I'm really only the facilitator or enabler. 00:07:27.551 --> 00:07:33.021 I, I take a back seat and these guys do all the great work as does our academics and guests. 00:07:34.031 --> 00:07:34.491 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:07:34.491 --> 00:07:41.211 So just so I understand then, and just for the audience as well, this podcast is a voice for the whole university then, right? 00:07:41.221 --> 00:07:44.901 It's not just a school within the university or a faculty within the university. 00:07:44.921 --> 00:07:54.181 This podcast really plays into that brand positioning that you so well explained, but it also is an overall voice for the university. 00:07:54.211 --> 00:07:55.481 Do I have that right? 00:07:55.571 --> 00:08:01.181 Fabian Marrone: Yeah, I think it's an overall voice for the entirety of what we define our university community to be. 00:08:01.181 --> 00:08:07.361 So while we'll have academics from different faculties involved, we also have alumni, we also have current students. 00:08:07.361 --> 00:08:12.881 We've also explored professional staff being involved in some of those components and future students. 00:08:12.891 --> 00:08:16.881 So it extends to all the audiences across our communities and all the different faculties. 00:08:16.891 --> 00:08:19.561 So it is, you know, university wide. 00:08:20.366 --> 00:08:21.616 Neil McPhedran: Why a podcast then? 00:08:21.616 --> 00:08:41.391 Like you could have, sort of done a YouTube channel or, you probably have a mix of other channels, but I'm sort of curious how you settled on, as our audience as podcasters, how you settled on a podcast to be such an important medium channel for this really big topic that you're tackling? 00:08:41.541 --> 00:08:48.021 Fabian Marrone: I think What Happens Next is part of a multi channel, multi content strategy. 00:08:48.031 --> 00:08:54.631 So we've done a full feature length documentaries and we've done installations. 00:08:54.661 --> 00:08:55.841 We've done brand campaigns. 00:08:55.841 --> 00:08:59.971 We do physical, uh, short installation documentaries in a different lens. 00:09:00.391 --> 00:09:12.356 And What Happens Next, and podcasts appeal to different audiences and in different, you know, on commutes in different places that our other brand campaigns don't reach in some cases. 00:09:12.356 --> 00:09:15.696 But it's also just in a way that some people like to digest information. 00:09:15.706 --> 00:09:21.036 We've got a brand strategy which focuses on content rather than paying for media and those types of things. 00:09:21.046 --> 00:09:25.396 Let's just produce really fantastic content and then we will reach the right people. 00:09:25.456 --> 00:09:26.986 So that's where our investment goes. 00:09:27.436 --> 00:09:43.326 And podcasting is a different way to tell a multifaceted story and explore topics in a more conversational manner, if I'm really honest, has a lot less curation and editing from our part than our other pieces. 00:09:43.336 --> 00:09:44.776 It is more of a flow. 00:09:45.306 --> 00:09:53.089 And we don't, put the scrutiny as we would on some other brand pieces because it's not intended to be a heavily branded piece of content. 00:09:53.089 --> 00:09:57.919 It's tended to be focused on the different three-sixty views on a particular topic. 00:09:58.079 --> 00:10:07.949 So it's a different audience in some perspectives on a different channel, but a different approach with greater flexibility and greater conversational tone. 00:10:08.244 --> 00:10:14.354 Jennifer-Lee: Listening to the podcast, I think probably yours is one of the best produced podcasts I've listened to. 00:10:14.354 --> 00:10:19.334 And Neil will tell you that I'm really harsh on sound and I really pick things apart. 00:10:19.364 --> 00:10:26.634 But I was like, wow, you guys do a little bit of kind of documentary feel where you're like doing voiceover and then you're putting music under it. 00:10:26.634 --> 00:10:32.934 And you're doing things that are not just the regular flow, I guess, of podcasters. 00:10:33.294 --> 00:10:34.344 Sounds amazing. 00:10:34.354 --> 00:10:37.074 I was like, yes, I like listening to this podcast. 00:10:38.164 --> 00:10:43.464 Is there a topic that you have not done yet that you would love to explore? 00:10:43.721 --> 00:10:48.381 Dr. Susan Carland: The way we pick and decide on topics is very collaborative and it's a long process. 00:10:48.381 --> 00:10:53.201 So often the smaller podcast team will come together and, and throw ideas up. 00:10:53.201 --> 00:10:56.361 And often it's just been things that we're personally interested in. 00:10:56.371 --> 00:11:00.811 Like I'm interested in this, what's going on here or things that we're hearing a lot of people talk about. 00:11:00.811 --> 00:11:03.821 And so we sort of chuck all that into the mix and then we have a vote. 00:11:04.061 --> 00:11:07.821 What's interesting, and there might be, there have certainly been things I'll put forward. 00:11:07.931 --> 00:11:09.171 I keep pushing this. 00:11:09.261 --> 00:11:15.421 I think we need to do something specifically on the role of religion in society, and I may be slightly biased. 00:11:15.716 --> 00:11:20.736 But I feel like this is, you know, it's so contentious and not just talking about religious practices. 00:11:20.796 --> 00:11:24.846 That's not what I'm trying to talk about, but religion and politics and culture and the way they combine. 00:11:24.846 --> 00:11:25.616 We see it everywhere. 00:11:26.216 --> 00:11:26.886 Around the world. 00:11:26.896 --> 00:11:28.246 And it has such an impact. 00:11:28.526 --> 00:11:30.126 Strangely, no one else seems interested. 00:11:30.206 --> 00:11:33.386 I keep putting it on the board and then it gets voted down. 00:11:33.516 --> 00:11:41.326 So it's very democratic in that perspective, but also, you know, what we've realized is we've done nearly, I think I've done nearly two hundred interviews. 00:11:41.836 --> 00:11:43.906 I think we also, we've covered a lot. 00:11:43.956 --> 00:11:51.516 And so we start to feel that even when we get into the specific ideas, often we keep coming back to the broader themes that we're exploring. 00:11:51.716 --> 00:11:52.826 We have gone through a lot. 00:11:52.986 --> 00:11:54.786 I'd like this on the public record. 00:11:54.826 --> 00:11:56.946 I think we need to do something on religion. 00:11:57.426 --> 00:12:01.326 Maybe I'll get that into the last season, but it also has to be democratic. 00:12:01.326 --> 00:12:10.286 And that's actually been really good because we need to also make sure that this doesn't just become the hobby horse of one person who has something that they really care about, but it needs to have broader market appeal as well. 00:12:10.286 --> 00:12:15.966 And so a lot of people are involved in the topics that end up on the cutting room floor and the ones that we do focus on. 00:12:16.236 --> 00:12:20.606 Jennifer-Lee: Fabian, any topics that were nixed for you or are all your topics winners? 00:12:20.821 --> 00:12:33.361 Fabian Marrone: I think this is all about timing, and I think, what Susan mentioned as a topic there in religious impact on our society and its intersection with politics, the timing is probably right for that now. 00:12:33.591 --> 00:12:53.266 And I think that it's important to share the three-sixty views on a topic because, you know, it is about, as I said in the beginning, what is the, you know, we've got to make decisions as a society and depending on those decisions, our future looks very different. 00:12:53.316 --> 00:12:57.206 And there's a lot going on in that space that I think should be unpacked and explored. 00:12:57.206 --> 00:13:03.206 So I think that would make a very good next discussion topic for our podcast. 00:13:03.916 --> 00:13:15.636 As Susan says, look, we've done so many podcasts and I think now it's about, probably, you don't go back, but you might explore different parts in more detail. 00:13:15.746 --> 00:13:19.116 I think there's a lot happening in the AI space. 00:13:19.466 --> 00:13:30.641 There's a lot happening in the crypto space at the moment, and there's a lot happening in the, those spaces and intersection with policy, um, that's happening in a lot of countries, which is really interesting. 00:13:31.011 --> 00:13:34.041 And I think that there will definitely need to be exploration in that. 00:13:34.071 --> 00:13:43.081 I think there is a lot happening in, in social cohesion in society, and we have a lot to contribute in that space, and that might link it with some of what Susan was talking about previously. 00:13:43.081 --> 00:14:00.366 But our role is to really put our expertise, thought leaders, and academic experts, and the community into the spotlight to explore different options on how we face some of these hard issues and I think, you know, we're at that time that there are some hard issues that we need to explore in a society. 00:14:00.546 --> 00:14:03.826 And I think we might be looking into some of those areas in the future. 00:14:04.521 --> 00:14:09.831 Neil McPhedran: I love your process, the, the way that, you know, you've got a larger team that sort of picks your topics and whatnot. 00:14:09.831 --> 00:14:12.791 And as Jen said, your show is quite high production. 00:14:12.791 --> 00:14:18.341 So, as our audience is other podcasters, what is the structure of your team then? 00:14:18.401 --> 00:14:21.841 And there must be a bunch of people on the back end working on this. 00:14:21.851 --> 00:14:25.391 So, just sort of curious about your structure, because I know that's one thing we get. 00:14:25.431 --> 00:14:29.811 You know, in the university podcast space, there's a lot of like one and two man bands. 00:14:29.961 --> 00:14:34.081 And then you have others like your show, which I'm guessing has a bigger team structure. 00:14:34.536 --> 00:14:49.846 Fabian Marrone: There's a team that works on the podcast in terms of production, in terms of the researching topics and the finding and selection of individuals, and the project management component of it, developing the digital assets and then the sound and proofing. 00:14:50.286 --> 00:14:55.186 But there is then the teams that sit across, which we look at the communications of that. 00:14:55.186 --> 00:15:01.786 So feeding into a social media team and feeding into the media team, which would do press releases in relation to the topic. 00:15:01.826 --> 00:15:12.791 And then integrating into more of the marketing marcoms where we will say, this is our full landscape of topics that we will cover across our entire brand ecosystem. 00:15:12.791 --> 00:15:14.731 And how does that intersect and connect? 00:15:14.791 --> 00:15:17.941 There is the core team that do the development of the podcast. 00:15:18.171 --> 00:15:27.441 And then there are the team that integrates with and intersects to make sure that it finds its place, not only within our ecosystem, but has its space to breathe and grow. 00:15:27.641 --> 00:15:33.346 But, you know, our podcasts, I will be part of the review process and the listening process. 00:15:33.376 --> 00:15:37.216 So will people, our vice chancellor, listen to those and understanding how they're topics. 00:15:37.226 --> 00:15:42.216 So these are really thoughtful, but they're really well known pieces of communications from our area. 00:15:42.216 --> 00:15:46.966 So there's a bigger team that goes into it, but Susan might tell that the behind the scenes. 00:15:47.246 --> 00:15:47.616 Dr. Susan Carland: Yeah. 00:15:47.616 --> 00:16:00.056 And I guess I, I want to jump in and add on this because since we've started the podcast, I've had quite a few people reach out to me internally at Monash University, but also from other universities saying, how do you guys do it, like, what's the mechanics? 00:16:00.476 --> 00:16:03.676 And what they don't realize is how many people are behind it. 00:16:03.766 --> 00:16:05.776 So it's lovely that you say it sounds good. 00:16:05.816 --> 00:16:08.506 And that's because so much is invested in this. 00:16:08.546 --> 00:16:14.936 And I think a lot of people, and understandably, they sort of think, look, I've got a microphone and a laptop and there's editing equipment available free online. 00:16:14.946 --> 00:16:16.136 Why can't I start a podcast? 00:16:16.166 --> 00:16:26.856 And you can, absolutely you can, but for something to sound polished, like, you know, so much goes into the audio and the editing and so much goes into the production. 00:16:26.856 --> 00:16:28.936 So much also goes into the research of guests. 00:16:29.056 --> 00:16:31.926 I think people just listen to an interview and think, oh, they were good. 00:16:31.926 --> 00:16:36.476 They have no understanding of what it's like to find talent. 00:16:36.731 --> 00:16:44.011 Good talent and bad talent, people who can speak really well in an interview, people for a whole host of reasons, just are not great talent. 00:16:44.271 --> 00:16:49.551 So finding them in the first place, finding people who will be good on the podcast, takes a lot of digging and researching. 00:16:49.551 --> 00:16:52.911 Who's good on the topic, but who can speak well, and then editing that down. 00:16:52.911 --> 00:16:59.421 So we have a team, we have an executive producer, we have a producer, we have a sound engineer and an editor, and we have a videographer. 00:16:59.481 --> 00:17:02.371 And that's not including me also coming in as host as well. 00:17:02.871 --> 00:17:10.296 And you know, so from the idea of an episode to the end, when it's, it's published as a podcast, that's about three months of work. 00:17:10.316 --> 00:17:19.746 And not just, you know, twenty minutes a week, there's a huge amount of work that goes in behind the scenes to bring it all together, to create a narrative, like I said, to find good talent. 00:17:20.126 --> 00:17:27.236 And so I think people, you can certainly start a podcast with fewer people, less time, less resources, less skill. 00:17:27.581 --> 00:17:33.821 For us to try to create something that sounds slick and professional, a lot of people are behind the scenes. 00:17:33.851 --> 00:17:37.671 And I think if you're just starting out in a podcast, you don't realize that. 00:17:37.978 --> 00:17:42.228 Neil McPhedran: I appreciate how you laid that out, Susan, and I think that's really important. 00:17:42.228 --> 00:17:52.863 And I think if it's a straight up interview style and you're more kind of that, that YouTube style and you're just looking for low edit of the interview. 00:17:52.863 --> 00:17:57.773 And you know, you're, kind of like two or three a week, then I think there's a certain sort of expectation. 00:17:57.773 --> 00:18:07.133 I think your sound needs to be good, but what you guys are producing more thought provoking, and you know, as you said, like you're researching the topics. 00:18:07.163 --> 00:18:11.533 But also, this show is representing your whole university. 00:18:11.533 --> 00:18:16.883 So there's a certain high bar then that you need to, you know, this is representing the whole university. 00:18:16.883 --> 00:18:21.683 So there's a certain expectation from a production level that needs to be achieved as well. 00:18:21.933 --> 00:18:23.353 Dr. Susan Carland: Yeah, we don't want to turn out rubbish. 00:18:23.373 --> 00:18:24.813 I think it's as simple as that. 00:18:24.813 --> 00:18:34.243 We want to have great content, but also, you know, the point you make, and I think this is something, again, people don't understand when they start making a podcast, that the number one thing is audio. 00:18:34.903 --> 00:18:39.653 The sound is everything because you are in people's ears. 00:18:40.213 --> 00:18:46.073 So I was listening to a podcast by an, an academic and it's really, the content is really interesting. 00:18:46.073 --> 00:18:52.263 You know, she's an academic just talking about life for academics and tips for academics, but the sound quality is so bad. 00:18:52.263 --> 00:18:56.543 She was interviewing someone, I think he was cooking at the time, and it was unbearable. 00:18:56.543 --> 00:19:04.918 Now, if you're watching that on YouTube or TV, you are more forgiving of bad audio, but when it is a podcast, audio is the number one thing. 00:19:05.188 --> 00:19:06.708 You need to have decent microphones. 00:19:06.708 --> 00:19:10.168 You need people to be in a quiet space, you need to manage your sound levels. 00:19:10.178 --> 00:19:11.388 All that stuff's really important. 00:19:11.388 --> 00:19:20.098 And so I think if people are listening to this and thinking, we want to start out at a podcast or a university, the number one thing to pay attention to is your audio quality. 00:19:20.728 --> 00:19:45.203 Jennifer-Lee: Actually, my favorite saying, which I've learned over the years, someone explained it to me, maybe a teacher in radio school, they said, look, if you have great audio and crappy video, people will continue to watch, but if you have crappy audio and the most amazing quality video, people won't watch because sound dictates no matter what medium. 00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:52.119 Neil McPhedran: Susan, question for you, the podcast covers, you know, potentially the full array of university from a topics perspective. 00:19:52.354 --> 00:19:54.214 How do you prepare for that? 00:19:54.394 --> 00:20:02.094 You teach in your own faculty, and then that would be your expertise, but you're being asked to, I would imagine there's some research. 00:20:02.274 --> 00:20:08.344 And if you're covering off something that's outside of your expertise as a host to you, how do you prepare yourself for that? 00:20:08.584 --> 00:20:14.144 Dr. Susan Carland: A couple of ways, some more mechanical and some more, I suppose, philosophical. 00:20:14.145 --> 00:20:20.439 From a mechanical point of view, you know, I have to acknowledge again, the amazing producers of the podcast. 00:20:20.529 --> 00:20:22.219 They've done all the groundwork for me. 00:20:22.219 --> 00:20:32.229 They've done pre interviews with, and we've learned this the hard way from some early episodes where we found someone that we thought would be great, and then they came on and they were not good. 00:20:32.249 --> 00:20:34.879 So we like, oh, okay, we better do some pre interviews. 00:20:35.189 --> 00:20:41.429 So the producers have done the pre interviews already, and then they put together notes for me and like suggested questions. 00:20:42.044 --> 00:20:45.204 So I read through them and obviously I'm aware of the topic. 00:20:45.204 --> 00:20:46.714 I'm like, okay, so what are we talking about? 00:20:46.714 --> 00:20:57.544 And then I often, even before I read the suggested questions that the producer Steph puts together for me, I will just stop and think about as the average person listening, what do I want to know about this? 00:20:57.744 --> 00:20:59.364 You know, I think it's very important. 00:20:59.404 --> 00:21:09.189 And again, as academics, we, well, for this podcast, particularly, there are other podcasts that can be more niche and specialized, but us, our podcast is very much for a general audience. 00:21:09.509 --> 00:21:16.799 You don't need to have a degree in physics to be, you shouldn't need a degree in physics to be able to understand when I'm interviewing a physicist, why they are on. 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:24.029 So I just think, I often say to my guests when they come on, you need to imagine that I'm the village fool and you were just explaining this to me. 00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:27.709 You were not talking to your peers, you know, over the Bunsen burner in the lab. 00:21:27.949 --> 00:21:31.279 You were talking to me and you explaining this to me, how do you explain this? 00:21:31.719 --> 00:21:41.799 And so I think one of the reasons I became an academic and one of the reasons I like doing the podcast is that, you know, when I talk about the philosophical preparation, I'm an inherently curious person. 00:21:41.849 --> 00:21:44.169 I'm really curious about what's going on in the world. 00:21:44.569 --> 00:21:46.299 I love being proven wrong. 00:21:46.514 --> 00:21:51.254 Like I love it when someone comes on and tells me something that absolutely goes against everything I thought I knew. 00:21:51.254 --> 00:21:53.184 I find that very exhilarating. 00:21:53.634 --> 00:21:57.554 So I come in and think, what am I curious about just as the average person? 00:21:57.814 --> 00:22:01.494 What might the average, even if I know about this topic, what might the average person not know? 00:22:01.494 --> 00:22:02.494 What am I hearing? 00:22:02.494 --> 00:22:10.784 So as a sociologist, you know, I'm just trying to always get the temperature of the current of what society saying about this, how do they think about this topic? 00:22:11.094 --> 00:22:16.964 And so that will often lead the questions that I will then add in to what my producer, Steph has put together for me. 00:22:17.024 --> 00:22:21.394 But then also, you know, again, and I'm sure it's the same with you guys, I take it as a conversation. 00:22:21.394 --> 00:22:24.344 So if they say something in the interview, then I'm like, hang on a minute. 00:22:24.544 --> 00:22:26.864 I need to follow this thread and see where it goes. 00:22:27.054 --> 00:22:28.024 Then that is what I will do. 00:22:28.024 --> 00:22:38.184 And that's part of the curiosity, because, you know, if you and I were meeting for lunch at a cafe, I would not come with my list of pre prepared questions, ask you the question, they would answer, I would ask the next one. 00:22:38.224 --> 00:22:39.514 That's not interesting. 00:22:39.844 --> 00:22:40.994 That's not how it works. 00:22:41.254 --> 00:22:43.014 It's not nice to listen to that either. 00:22:43.014 --> 00:22:44.304 It should be conversational. 00:22:44.304 --> 00:22:45.104 It should be natural. 00:22:45.194 --> 00:22:47.414 And so I do try to bring that to the podcast. 00:22:47.554 --> 00:22:55.574 Jennifer-Lee: Fabian, how do you measure the success of the podcast in terms of audience engagement and its impact on Monash's reputation? 00:22:55.939 --> 00:22:57.959 Fabian Marrone: I think that that's twofold. 00:22:58.169 --> 00:23:02.289 You've obviously got your core audience engagement metrics. 00:23:02.299 --> 00:23:04.169 So, you know, how many people downloaded. 00:23:04.239 --> 00:23:06.359 There's obviously awards that come into that. 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:07.589 How many people are listening. 00:23:07.649 --> 00:23:10.299 And there's all those important key statistics. 00:23:10.299 --> 00:23:17.274 And I think a great measure of success for this, is that we'd exceeded our expectations in all of those things. 00:23:17.274 --> 00:23:26.114 It actually went beyond our wildest dreams, shall I say, in terms of, uh, the reach and the downloads, you know, particularly into different markets. 00:23:26.124 --> 00:23:31.074 So, you know, the beginning of this, we wanted to say, well, let's not just reach our audience in Australia. 00:23:31.114 --> 00:23:34.514 We've got people listening in sixty-seven countries around the world. 00:23:34.794 --> 00:23:36.754 And you know, that's amazing for us. 00:23:36.754 --> 00:23:40.244 And some of our biggest reach is in markets that is not Australia. 00:23:40.244 --> 00:23:46.914 So, and you know, four point eight rating on Apple and Spotify, you know, much better than my Uber rating. 00:23:46.984 --> 00:23:49.074 They're, you know, very impressive things. 00:23:49.074 --> 00:23:50.984 And they're all core metrics that we measure. 00:23:51.504 --> 00:23:55.034 Um, but it is, it's also about representation. 00:23:55.284 --> 00:23:58.004 It's also about having difficult conversations. 00:23:58.244 --> 00:24:04.814 It's also about not just putting forward a single view of a single side. 00:24:04.854 --> 00:24:10.859 It's about exploring it and my, one of our biggest measures is, you know, we've got a massive community at Monash. 00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:22.629 If you add the five hundred throusand alumni to the eighty thousand plus students to the twenty thousand plus staff to all the people we engage with from all aspects of the world, you're talking about a million people around the world. 00:24:22.709 --> 00:24:23.889 Yeah, that's a big community. 00:24:23.949 --> 00:24:37.024 To represent that community in a genuine and authentic way, um, and have internal commentary say, whether they agree with the topic or not, this is doing a good thing, we feel represented, and that is the feedback we get. 00:24:37.364 --> 00:24:49.719 People might not always like the content or agree with the content, but the way you're delivering it, the way you're representing the entire institution, and our different perspectives, because that's what universities are. 00:24:49.719 --> 00:24:53.249 They're not, we're not all homogenous beings, we don't all agree with the same thing. 00:24:53.499 --> 00:25:01.489 It's, this is about academic freedom, different voice, different opinion, different expertise, but also about facts. 00:25:01.749 --> 00:25:06.804 So you can have different opinions, you can have different, all those things, but you've got to make sure that we've got the fact check in there, so. 00:25:07.744 --> 00:25:21.554 My measure is twofold hard metrics because I love data and that's the marketing science person in me, but the comms person in me is about telling our university story in an authentic and genuine way and having the feedback from our community suggests that we're doing that. 00:25:21.634 --> 00:25:25.354 And that is as much about the production team in Anj and Steph. 00:25:25.639 --> 00:25:31.199 and others involved, as it is about Susan making sure that she can, you know, what it's like when you're interviewing. 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:40.449 Getting the information out, trying to pull out those pieces and trying to get people to feel comfortable and safe to put their perspectives and expertise in is an R. 00:25:40.479 --> 00:25:44.239 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and sometimes pulling out interviews is like pulling blood from a stone. 00:25:44.604 --> 00:25:45.554 You've all been there. 00:25:45.594 --> 00:25:56.524 Do you guys find though that from this, because you've gotten great awareness, do you ever have people be like, I'm going to school now because I never knew about you, but I heard about you through the podcast? 00:25:56.814 --> 00:26:06.844 Does it ever give the podcast more representation, or is this just kind of a way to kind of build your own community of people who are learning? 00:26:06.998 --> 00:26:09.848 Fabian Marrone: Everything we do has threefold look at it. 00:26:09.848 --> 00:26:30.008 You know, how does this, universities are, there's reputation, so getting this information out there, getting our expertise out there, helps other universities be aware of the work we're doing and enables collaboration on those topics, which elevates the academic exercise of exploration into new topics and development. 00:26:30.018 --> 00:26:32.658 So that's a, reputation building is a core piece for us. 00:26:33.208 --> 00:26:40.223 And there is always a link, um, to people hearing the podcast or looking at, one of our documentaries or something. 00:26:40.223 --> 00:26:44.233 We track that back to leads and enrollments and things like that. 00:26:44.233 --> 00:26:47.333 And all of these things have a positive impact, as does the podcast. 00:26:47.763 --> 00:26:53.853 And then the other piece of it is just, as I said before, the representation and engagement, like are people engaged with what we're doing. 00:26:54.043 --> 00:26:57.723 And that's another metric in those engagement measures that I talked about earlier. 00:26:57.723 --> 00:27:00.443 So we look across it in those three pieces. 00:27:00.443 --> 00:27:03.368 That is it helping to build our reputation? 00:27:03.378 --> 00:27:05.198 Is it helping to grow our community? 00:27:05.738 --> 00:27:13.898 Um, and then is it helping to keep our community engaged and demonstrate our, you know, authenticity and genuineness in that relationship? 00:27:14.458 --> 00:27:21.513 And I think one of the big things there is, I have people come up to me all the time, and Susan has far more, saying, we want to do a podcast. 00:27:21.523 --> 00:27:22.653 How do you guys do it? 00:27:22.813 --> 00:27:24.943 We want to explore a different avenue. 00:27:24.993 --> 00:27:27.003 Can we do that through What Happens Next? 00:27:27.063 --> 00:27:31.683 And the answer is always, yes, let's explore it because you never know where it goes. 00:27:31.693 --> 00:27:39.818 And we might not take up all of those pieces, but we've got a big exploration waiting list at the moment which is a really positive thing. 00:27:39.998 --> 00:27:59.988 Neil McPhedran: I commend you because I think, as Jen and I both work with a number of other university podcasts, I think one of the things that's boiled to the top in the last couple of months is that podcasts are a great way to almost counteract some of this negative academia or negative science rhetoric. 00:28:00.058 --> 00:28:12.098 So I commend you for this because I think that this podcast is a great way to have a direct voice from our universities, from our academia to real science, real work, real research that is going on. 00:28:12.098 --> 00:28:16.778 So I think it's great that you guys are like tackling these big scary topics. 00:28:16.798 --> 00:28:18.318 What did you call it, Susan, again? 00:28:18.338 --> 00:28:19.388 What was the term you gave? 00:28:19.448 --> 00:28:20.468 Dr. Susan Carland: The wicked problems. 00:28:20.468 --> 00:28:21.528 Neil McPhedran: The wicked problems. 00:28:21.528 --> 00:28:30.528 Because I think that it's just like with the noise and our media and whatnot, this is such a great medium to have that direct voice. 00:28:30.598 --> 00:28:37.638 So I really appreciate sort of the way that both of you have explained it and the reason for being behind this, behind your podcast. 00:28:37.934 --> 00:28:38.614 Dr. Susan Carland: That's a good point. 00:28:38.614 --> 00:28:48.354 And I have to say as an academic, it's a tricky time to be an academic when, you know, maybe for the past eight or so, maybe, maybe more like five years, facts don't matter anymore. 00:28:48.454 --> 00:28:50.754 Because as an academic, they're like, but this is what everything's about. 00:28:50.754 --> 00:28:52.964 And surely if I show you the facts, that should change your mind. 00:28:53.444 --> 00:28:58.554 But what actually does change people's minds and facts actually are very ineffective at changing people's minds. 00:28:58.914 --> 00:29:01.774 What does change people's minds are narratives. 00:29:02.574 --> 00:29:07.464 And so what we try to do with the podcast is actually this great combination of the two. 00:29:07.504 --> 00:29:12.504 We are bringing you facts and truth, but it is in a narrative telling. 00:29:12.954 --> 00:29:14.869 Human beings, this is what we actually connect with. 00:29:14.929 --> 00:29:23.579 This is what we remember long after any podcast or session or information session or book is forgotten, they will not remember the statistics in there. 00:29:23.809 --> 00:29:26.669 They won't remember the facts, but they will remember the narrative. 00:29:27.019 --> 00:29:43.234 And so what we try to do with the podcast is have the narrative weave that brings in the necessary truth, because of course there is debate about this at the moment globally, as you've said, but you know, as a university, we're not ready to seed that ground and we're not going to seed that ground. 00:29:43.434 --> 00:30:03.079 Jennifer-Lee: I love the fact that you guys are not scared to do these topics because I feel like sometimes when you're in the university and post-secondary space, obviously, you guys are still protecting the image of the space, but you are doing topics that other people don't want to necessarily dive into because they could be a little bit more controversial for the university and college's brand. 00:30:03.139 --> 00:30:08.929 Are you guys ever worried, though, that there is going to be a topic that maybe you push too far and then your boss is going to be like, oh, hey. 00:30:09.109 --> 00:30:14.169 Fabian Marrone: If you get a chance, go back and Google, if you don't like it, change it, Monash University. 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:24.309 Um, and you'll see the first, uh, advert that we released when I, I joined the university and that's a value proposition of being bold and brave. 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:32.199 And when you work for a university in this position and you have the support of leadership and academic freedom is at the core of what we do. 00:30:32.569 --> 00:30:42.829 And you have to be willing to tell the story of the entirety of the institution, and we're here to serve the public good. 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.739 It's our job, we should be involved. 00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:46.859 Susan's absolutely spot on. 00:30:47.059 --> 00:30:50.719 We're not going to concede ground in telling the facts and telling that information. 00:30:50.789 --> 00:31:04.439 Not everyone's going to like it, and it might not be for everyone, but if we haven't given people the opportunity to hear that academic voice, to understand that research, to understand that expertise, then we haven't done our job. 00:31:04.729 --> 00:31:16.439 So, you know, this is why I say the curation on this is light because it's telling the stories on the topics that need to be told and we need to lean into. 00:31:16.769 --> 00:31:17.909 It's our purpose. 00:31:18.269 --> 00:31:32.929 It's enshrined in our act and that's the lens that we look through and sometimes, yes, we have to be bold and brave and sometimes the comments are hard to read when you look underneath your ads or your episodes or you hear it in response, but that's people's opinion and, and that's their reaction. 00:31:32.929 --> 00:31:36.939 We can only be responsible for our action and our action is to tell these stories. 00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:39.504 Dr. Susan Carland: Or do what I do and just never read the comments. 00:31:39.604 --> 00:31:40.534 Fabian Marrone: I don't tend to read them. 00:31:40.554 --> 00:31:44.584 Other people do and then come and tell me what they've said and I'm like, I specifically don't read this. 00:31:45.114 --> 00:31:45.874 Neil McPhedran: That's so good. 00:31:46.114 --> 00:31:48.534 Well, we won't keep you any longer. 00:31:48.534 --> 00:31:52.084 This has been really, really good and I think that again, great, great podcast. 00:31:52.394 --> 00:31:53.524 Really good to listen to. 00:31:53.664 --> 00:31:57.984 There's a couple of things you guys mentioned, Fabian, your link to that first ad you mentioned. 00:31:58.094 --> 00:32:00.254 We'll put that in the show notes as well. 00:32:00.304 --> 00:32:07.544 We'll make sure that we point out a couple of these things that were mentioned throughout our conversation, but thank you so much for your time today. 00:32:08.264 --> 00:32:08.724 Dr. Susan Carland: Thanks for having us. 00:32:08.974 --> 00:32:09.704 Fabian Marrone: Thank you guys. 00:32:11.378 --> 00:32:14.058 Neil McPhedran: Well, Jen, that was another great conversation. 00:32:14.418 --> 00:32:18.718 I really enjoyed chatting with Susan and Fabian. 00:32:18.848 --> 00:32:27.588 That's quite the production they have, like real high production value and there's a large team that works on it and they put a lot of effort into each episode. 00:32:27.628 --> 00:32:32.438 And it really goes to show the gamut that is in this space of higher education. 00:32:32.468 --> 00:32:54.773 We have spoken to literally one man bands where it's one person who's doing all of his own editing and he's basically doing everything himself to, you know, this end of the spectrum where it's high production, they've got a large team that they went into when we chatted with them, they spend a lot of time thinking about each topic. 00:32:54.793 --> 00:33:02.548 There's a lot of effort that goes into preparation and then all of the post production and so on and so forth. 00:33:02.558 --> 00:33:10.788 So really cool to sort of, as we've done over the last couple of years with this podcast, really explore the continuum of opportunity. 00:33:10.928 --> 00:33:15.668 Jennifer-Lee: And it's just neat to talk to people halfway around the world. 00:33:15.808 --> 00:33:21.828 A lot of our guests have been North American, which is great, but it's always neat to see how other people are doing. 00:33:22.118 --> 00:33:28.048 Not just education, but podcasts and the fact that they have such a global reach, which I loved. 00:33:28.408 --> 00:33:30.438 I feel like we're traveling as well, too. 00:33:30.648 --> 00:33:34.178 Too bad we're not in a sunny destination like Australia at the moment. 00:33:35.058 --> 00:33:36.658 Only one could hope. 00:33:36.968 --> 00:33:42.128 Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:33:42.478 --> 00:33:45.578 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:33:45.598 --> 00:33:52.233 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. 00:33:52.453 --> 00:33:59.883 But if you found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts. 00:34:00.133 --> 00:34:09.003 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com where you can connect with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:34:09.013 --> 00:34:11.113 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:34:11.393 --> 00:34:16.503 We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations around higher education podcasts. 00:34:16.748 --> 00:34:18.148 See you in the next episode.