WEBVTT

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Do I need to hit go live or

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you can...

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Welcome back to This Week in Privacy,

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our weekly series where we discuss the

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latest updates with what we've been

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working on within the Privacy Guides

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community and this week's top stories in

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the data privacy and cybersecurity space,

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including Discord's new age verification

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push.

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Both Google and Amazon doorbells are in

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the mainstream headlines and a reminder

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about DHS social media surveillance.

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I'm Jordan and this week I'm joined by

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Nate.

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Hello.

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Privacy Guides is a nonprofit which

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researches and shares privacy related

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information and facilitates a community on

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our forum and matrix where people can ask

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questions and get advice about staying

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private online and preserving their

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digital rights.

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Now let's get straight into the biggest

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news in privacy and security from the past

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week.

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Alrighty.

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Thank you so much, Jordan.

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Our first story this week,

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we're going to talk about Discord's new

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age verification push.

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A lot of you guys may have already

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seen this.

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This has really been making waves online,

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or at least in a lot of the

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spaces I'm in, which includes Discord.

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So maybe this is a bit of a

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sampling bias,

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but this has definitely been in the

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headlines.

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So earlier this week,

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discord announced um i mean really that's

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that's it they announced that moving

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forward all accounts are by default going

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to be treated as teen accounts which means

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that you will be severely limited in

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certain function functionality excuse me

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um i have read so so many articles

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this week so let me try and see

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if i can

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see if this one mentions, um,

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what the restrictions are on a teenage

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account.

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I mean,

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obviously there's things like if an,

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if a server is marked as like.

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Um,

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which I don't know how obvious this is

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to some of you guys, but like,

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I'm in like a true crime server,

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for example.

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So that would be plus,

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so it's not just porn.

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It could be anything.

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And there's also like certain messages

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won't go through by default and they get

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filtered and stuff like that.

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I'm not seeing it here.

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But anyways, yeah,

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it basically just restricts your account

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by default.

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However, you can age verify.

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There's kind of a lot to this story

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and I'm having a hard time putting things

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in the proper order here.

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But

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So it's,

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let's just go ahead and say this.

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Some people have accused Discord of

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backpedaling because they started,

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there was another article that came out

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about midweek where Discord basically

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emphasized that

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You don't necessarily have to submit ID

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because they're going to try and verify

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your age automatically.

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That was part of the initial announcement.

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So personally,

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I don't know if I would call that

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backpedaling,

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but I get where you're coming from that

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like they definitely put more emphasis on

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that in the middle of the week when

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this got met with a lot of pushback.

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They were like, no, guys, relax.

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They said most people won't have to verify

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their IDs.

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Um, so let me,

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let me talk about that part real quick.

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Um, by default,

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discord is going to try to guess your

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age using account metadata.

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So that would be things like how long

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you've had the account,

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what sort of games you play,

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what time of day you're generally active

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and stuff like that.

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If they get it wrong is when you

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will have to verify ID.

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or if they can't determine your age.

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Or I guess more accurately,

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you won't have to,

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you'll just get reverted to a teen

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account.

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And if you're fine with that,

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then you're fine with that.

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But depending on what kind of servers

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you're in, again, that may get you booted.

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So this is where things start to get

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dicey, as you can imagine.

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So this article we've chosen here from Ars

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Technica,

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I chose this one specifically not because

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of the headline,

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but because this one also has a really

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deep dive into Discord's verification

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system and how it's supposed to work.

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Apparently...

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There's two ways of doing it.

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One of them is a biometric scan,

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which they claim will be totally on

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device.

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It'll never leave your device.

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It's like a video selfie.

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And then if your phone determines that you

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are eighteen,

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it just sends a yes or no back

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to the server.

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And as you can imagine,

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this is going to affect younger users most

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and people who look young, because I mean,

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I obviously look way above eighteen,

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but I feel like I've told this story

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somewhere before.

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When I was in college in my English

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class,

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I sat behind a girl that I swear

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to God,

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I thought she was like twenty and

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apparently she was forty.

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So some people just don't look their age

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and especially when you get younger and

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it's like, OK,

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the line between seventeen and eighteen is

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literally a day.

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So how's Discord supposed to guess that

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accurately?

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I guess I'm getting ahead of myself.

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But anyways,

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so you can do the face scan,

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which if they are to be believed,

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stays on your device.

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It just sends a yes or no back

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to the server.

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If the face scan doesn't work,

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then you have to submit ID,

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which they say is deleted as soon as

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possible.

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But they don't really give guarantees on

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what that is.

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They just say like,

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we promise we delete it as soon as

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we're done.

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That might be immediately.

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That might be a couple days.

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It's really hard to know.

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And for those of you who missed it,

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I just do really quick want to address

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the headline for audio listeners.

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The headline of this article we chose is

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Discord faces backlash over age checks

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after data breach exposed to seventy

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thousand IDs.

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That happened last year.

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I want to say late last year,

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but it may have been early last year.

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Oh, no, no, no.

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In October, our senior security editor,

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Dan Gooden, joined others,

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warning the best advice is to assume they

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have had their data stolen.

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So I think that was late last year.

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Anyways,

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I did a second look into that story

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in preparation for this one,

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and I think that was also the result

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of –

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What's the word I'm looking for?

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The UK's Online Safety Act.

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Discord already did this once over in the

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UK.

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Those seventy thousand IDs were part of

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the appeals process.

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That's what I'm looking for.

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That's that's where these came from is

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people who were submitting appeals,

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submitted their ID.

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And I'm assuming because they had so many

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IDs to go through and there was such

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a backlog that required them to, you know,

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they stuck had a backlog of IDs,

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a stack of IDs.

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That's what I was looking for.

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Yeah,

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that was also with a different provider.

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I don't know that that really matters.

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This whole breakdown here from Ars

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Technica is really interesting because

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it's almost like a Matryoshka doll of

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different companies.

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Like they say that they're going through

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KID,

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but then KID passes it on to somebody

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else.

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Where did it go?

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Privately.

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KID does not receive personal data from

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Discord when performing age insurance.

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And then it's – yeah, it was weird.

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It's like every – again,

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ours has this really good write-up here

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where like when you look at one company's

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privacy policy,

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they say that they work with this other

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company who works with another company.

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And it's – I don't know.

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It's really weird.

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But eventually it does lead back to this

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company in the EU who says that they

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employed a double-blind implementation

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where basically they never know what your

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account is.

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They're just verifying your age.

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Yeah.

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And there's something wrong with the CSS

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here that some of this text is black

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on my screen for some reason,

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so it blends in with the background.

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But yeah, it's a whole thing.

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I think that kind of sums up the

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facts of the story.

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This has faced immense backlash.

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I've already seen one script floating

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around that I don't know if it works

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or not,

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but it claims that it basically sends the

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yes check back to KID and verifies you

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now.

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We don't know if Discord is going to

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invalidate that by the time March rolls

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around,

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because I think this is supposed to take

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place in March.

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Some of the servers I'm in,

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we've definitely been having discussions

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about other platforms.

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And, oh, man.

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I think, unfortunately,

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the best platform – and I'll say why

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I say unfortunately in a second.

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I think, unfortunately,

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the best platform we have right now is

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Matrix.

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And I mean nothing against the Matrix

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people,

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but it's – and they even admit it.

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They have their own blog post.

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I'll see if I can pull it up

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while I'm talking here.

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But they have their own blog post where

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they're kind of welcoming people who are

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joining Matrix and Element for the first

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time.

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And they admit that they're like,

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we're not really a drop-in replacement

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right now because they've been so busy

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prioritizing.

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They have a lot of public service

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contracts in –

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europe and that's what's been paying the

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bills to hire more developers which i

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totally get but that also means that they

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haven't really had the time to um to

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dedicate towards man i'm really not

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finding this blog right now i tried

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element and matrix i'll find it later but

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they haven't had the time to really

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prioritize uh some of the things that you

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would expect if you're coming from discord

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for the first time things like custom

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emojis things like uh streaming games

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voice chat i think some servers support

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voice chat but not all of them so

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And they also admit in their blog post

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that they are also, as a UK entity,

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trying to figure out the best way to

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implement age verification to comply with

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UK law.

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They do mention that in their blog post

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that some servers may still have to do

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that depending on where they're located.

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Yeah,

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I guess I think that's kind of all

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I've got at the moment regarding this.

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Matrix is not perfect,

00:09:45.464 --> 00:09:46.565
but the thing it has going for it,

00:09:46.585 --> 00:09:46.825
I guess,

00:09:46.924 --> 00:09:48.265
is to kind of finish that thought is

00:09:48.826 --> 00:09:49.868
it is fully open source.

00:09:50.327 --> 00:09:51.769
There is end to end encryption available,

00:09:52.190 --> 00:09:53.451
especially in DMs.

00:09:53.490 --> 00:09:55.032
They're one on one are default.

00:09:55.893 --> 00:09:57.634
They can be turned on in rooms if

00:09:57.674 --> 00:09:58.916
you feel you need that for some reason.

00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:00.441
It can be decentralized.

00:10:00.461 --> 00:10:01.520
You can host your own server.

00:10:02.062 --> 00:10:02.581
So, I mean,

00:10:02.621 --> 00:10:04.062
it's definitely a step up from a privacy

00:10:04.082 --> 00:10:04.623
perspective.

00:10:04.743 --> 00:10:05.163
It's just,

00:10:06.004 --> 00:10:07.664
I think it would be a tough sell

00:10:07.705 --> 00:10:10.187
to get a lot of longtime Discord users

00:10:10.346 --> 00:10:15.009
onto Matrix because of the feature set

00:10:15.029 --> 00:10:15.769
that it's missing.

00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:17.770
But I've, again,

00:10:17.811 --> 00:10:18.932
I'm in some servers where we've been

00:10:18.951 --> 00:10:21.092
looking into some other stuff and like all

00:10:21.133 --> 00:10:22.614
of the other things that I see or

00:10:22.673 --> 00:10:25.135
I have seen personally that are like,

00:10:26.054 --> 00:10:26.875
that look really good,

00:10:26.894 --> 00:10:28.176
that look like they might actually be a

00:10:28.216 --> 00:10:29.456
good replacement from an end user

00:10:29.496 --> 00:10:29.996
perspective,

00:10:31.697 --> 00:10:32.798
it's just repeating the cycle.

00:10:33.057 --> 00:10:33.717
They're all like,

00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:35.719
they just raised nine million dollars in

00:10:35.859 --> 00:10:38.139
VC funding, or they're closed source,

00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:39.341
they're this, they're that, and it's like,

00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.022
cool, so in five years,

00:10:41.042 --> 00:10:42.883
we're gonna be right back here where we

00:10:42.903 --> 00:10:43.222
started.

00:10:45.524 --> 00:10:46.703
I think that's kind of all I've got

00:10:46.803 --> 00:10:47.585
for now.

00:10:48.304 --> 00:10:48.625
Jordan,

00:10:48.664 --> 00:10:50.326
did you have any thoughts on this story?

00:10:51.977 --> 00:10:52.298
Yeah.

00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:54.860
So I think the first thing I want

00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.582
to talk about here is, I guess,

00:10:58.722 --> 00:11:00.384
the privacy concerns with this,

00:11:00.424 --> 00:11:02.746
because I've seen some people saying that,

00:11:03.846 --> 00:11:05.769
you know, it's not,

00:11:05.808 --> 00:11:08.150
they're not requiring ID from everybody.

00:11:09.772 --> 00:11:10.613
So that's okay.

00:11:10.753 --> 00:11:11.013
Right.

00:11:11.552 --> 00:11:15.035
But I think one issue with that idea,

00:11:15.096 --> 00:11:17.618
right, is the way these like age,

00:11:17.717 --> 00:11:19.519
basically they use some sort of age

00:11:19.620 --> 00:11:20.941
estimation technology,

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:21.461
which is like

00:11:22.841 --> 00:11:26.023
based on a data set of what people

00:11:26.043 --> 00:11:28.062
look like at a certain age, right?

00:11:28.823 --> 00:11:31.443
And it's kind of been like a long

00:11:32.404 --> 00:11:34.105
studied thing where we've been able to

00:11:34.144 --> 00:11:37.706
find out that these age estimation tools

00:11:38.405 --> 00:11:42.106
are not very good at estimating different

00:11:42.147 --> 00:11:42.868
types of people.

00:11:42.927 --> 00:11:47.749
Like for example, it's people of color

00:11:48.577 --> 00:11:49.217
who are women,

00:11:49.619 --> 00:11:52.399
like there's been like studies that have

00:11:52.419 --> 00:11:53.100
been done on that.

00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:53.620
And it doesn't,

00:11:53.941 --> 00:11:55.721
it doesn't estimate age correctly for

00:11:55.761 --> 00:11:56.381
those people.

00:11:57.883 --> 00:11:59.224
And, you know, the least,

00:11:59.945 --> 00:12:01.485
the more of a minority you are,

00:12:01.905 --> 00:12:03.846
the less chance it is to be correct.

00:12:03.947 --> 00:12:04.246
Right.

00:12:04.307 --> 00:12:05.947
So it's,

00:12:06.207 --> 00:12:07.808
it's kind of problematic in that way.

00:12:07.989 --> 00:12:09.889
And also these platforms have to

00:12:09.909 --> 00:12:10.730
basically, you know,

00:12:10.750 --> 00:12:12.892
you have to show your face and submit

00:12:12.932 --> 00:12:14.352
a biometric scan, which,

00:12:16.381 --> 00:12:19.365
These platforms say that that scan is not

00:12:20.908 --> 00:12:22.691
saved or used to...

00:12:25.287 --> 00:12:26.947
you know, improve their services.

00:12:27.008 --> 00:12:29.308
But I think at a certain point we're

00:12:29.349 --> 00:12:30.529
seeing, you know, all these people,

00:12:30.570 --> 00:12:32.971
like I remember last year when people were

00:12:33.010 --> 00:12:35.172
facing the discord age estimation

00:12:35.231 --> 00:12:35.832
technology,

00:12:36.452 --> 00:12:38.274
a lot of people were using death stranding

00:12:38.453 --> 00:12:40.174
like photo mode to bypass it.

00:12:41.054 --> 00:12:42.416
But I think that when,

00:12:42.635 --> 00:12:43.956
when they have a lot of these,

00:12:44.256 --> 00:12:44.537
you know,

00:12:44.557 --> 00:12:46.337
people using video games and stuff like

00:12:46.357 --> 00:12:46.697
that,

00:12:47.198 --> 00:12:48.958
we're going to find that a lot of

00:12:48.979 --> 00:12:49.279
these people,

00:12:50.393 --> 00:12:52.775
companies are going to have to start you

00:12:52.816 --> 00:12:55.418
know actually saving some of that because

00:12:55.538 --> 00:12:57.200
there'll be people bypassing it with that

00:12:57.220 --> 00:12:58.902
technology so they need to be able to

00:12:59.162 --> 00:13:03.506
control that right um so I think the

00:13:03.547 --> 00:13:06.168
problem is still there even if you say

00:13:06.350 --> 00:13:08.932
you know not everyone will have to um

00:13:09.011 --> 00:13:09.273
I think

00:13:10.697 --> 00:13:12.337
It's also important to mention that this

00:13:12.378 --> 00:13:14.418
was only to access, like,

00:13:14.518 --> 00:13:16.759
not safe for work channels and servers.

00:13:17.418 --> 00:13:20.259
So I don't think your access to the

00:13:20.299 --> 00:13:22.260
entirety of Discord would be restricted.

00:13:22.780 --> 00:13:24.162
You just wouldn't be able to access not

00:13:24.201 --> 00:13:25.381
safe for work channels,

00:13:25.782 --> 00:13:27.623
which I think that's another debate.

00:13:27.682 --> 00:13:27.903
Like,

00:13:28.023 --> 00:13:30.464
what exactly is classified as not safe for

00:13:30.504 --> 00:13:30.803
work?

00:13:31.423 --> 00:13:32.104
Because, you know,

00:13:32.163 --> 00:13:32.985
I think that could be...

00:13:34.264 --> 00:13:36.245
deemed different for a lot of people.

00:13:37.647 --> 00:13:38.726
And, you know,

00:13:38.787 --> 00:13:40.707
Discord could decide to set a server to

00:13:40.727 --> 00:13:41.567
not say for work,

00:13:41.607 --> 00:13:43.989
which could allow which could kind of

00:13:44.028 --> 00:13:46.610
force people to verify their ID.

00:13:47.551 --> 00:13:48.951
So Discord is in sort of like a

00:13:48.991 --> 00:13:50.871
very centralized position, right?

00:13:50.932 --> 00:13:51.173
Where

00:13:53.086 --> 00:13:54.087
like Nate talked about,

00:13:54.227 --> 00:13:57.269
matrix is a decentralized alternative

00:13:57.328 --> 00:14:01.010
where if the default matrix.org home

00:14:01.051 --> 00:14:04.272
server decided to implement age

00:14:04.292 --> 00:14:05.052
verification,

00:14:05.673 --> 00:14:08.033
then you would actually have the choice to

00:14:08.634 --> 00:14:11.075
switch to a different home server which

00:14:11.154 --> 00:14:13.495
wasn't applying the same restrictions,

00:14:13.556 --> 00:14:14.517
right?

00:14:14.576 --> 00:14:14.736
So

00:14:16.606 --> 00:14:19.187
I think Matrix is definitely a step in

00:14:19.227 --> 00:14:19.988
the right direction,

00:14:20.149 --> 00:14:23.070
but I think it's very much missing a

00:14:23.129 --> 00:14:25.591
lot of the key features that Discord has.

00:14:26.071 --> 00:14:26.530
And, you know,

00:14:26.850 --> 00:14:29.932
a lot of people who use Discord rely

00:14:29.993 --> 00:14:30.972
on all the time.

00:14:31.013 --> 00:14:32.553
Like, you know, people do...

00:14:34.599 --> 00:14:37.080
like they watch movies together on Discord

00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.120
or they want to screen share to their

00:14:39.160 --> 00:14:41.520
friends or be in a massive group call.

00:14:42.322 --> 00:14:43.481
And as far as I know,

00:14:45.202 --> 00:14:49.104
a lot of those features in Matrix are

00:14:49.203 --> 00:14:52.205
not as mature or very patchy or not

00:14:52.264 --> 00:14:56.927
really applied in the same way that

00:14:56.986 --> 00:14:57.846
Discord does it.

00:14:57.907 --> 00:14:58.106
So

00:14:59.504 --> 00:15:00.666
I think a lot of people are going

00:15:00.686 --> 00:15:03.027
to be kind of unhappy with matrix as

00:15:03.047 --> 00:15:05.428
a replacement to discord, um,

00:15:05.469 --> 00:15:07.551
which I think is just highlighting another

00:15:07.610 --> 00:15:12.874
issue where I think we need more diversity

00:15:12.913 --> 00:15:14.054
between platforms.

00:15:14.134 --> 00:15:15.615
Like I think it would be better if

00:15:15.655 --> 00:15:16.697
we had, uh,

00:15:18.429 --> 00:15:18.730
you know,

00:15:18.990 --> 00:15:20.811
more alternatives to Discord that actually

00:15:20.850 --> 00:15:23.732
took privacy concerns seriously,

00:15:23.913 --> 00:15:28.035
because Discord is like always not really

00:15:28.115 --> 00:15:30.836
been a platform that has cared about data

00:15:30.876 --> 00:15:31.376
privacy.

00:15:32.077 --> 00:15:33.958
And we can kind of tell now that

00:15:34.038 --> 00:15:35.519
that's never really been a priority

00:15:35.539 --> 00:15:37.721
because they're fine with pushing forward

00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:39.221
with all these age checks, right?

00:15:40.582 --> 00:15:42.344
So I don't know, it's kind of,

00:15:43.756 --> 00:15:45.597
an unfortunate situation to be in for a

00:15:45.618 --> 00:15:46.979
lot of people because, you know,

00:15:47.539 --> 00:15:49.301
some people rely on these channels and

00:15:49.341 --> 00:15:51.481
servers and it's going to basically mean

00:15:51.662 --> 00:15:53.823
either give up your ID or

00:15:55.802 --> 00:15:57.221
miss out on that entire community,

00:15:57.241 --> 00:15:58.582
which for some people is just not

00:15:58.643 --> 00:15:59.062
possible.

00:15:59.623 --> 00:16:01.063
So I do think this is sort of

00:16:01.104 --> 00:16:02.024
very coercive.

00:16:02.604 --> 00:16:05.745
It's sort of forcing people into giving up

00:16:05.784 --> 00:16:07.505
biometric scans of their faces.

00:16:08.245 --> 00:16:09.686
And even then,

00:16:10.046 --> 00:16:11.886
your biometric scan of your face may not

00:16:11.986 --> 00:16:12.907
actually approve you.

00:16:12.947 --> 00:16:14.687
So you might actually have to upload ID

00:16:14.707 --> 00:16:15.107
as well.

00:16:16.634 --> 00:16:18.395
So overall,

00:16:18.495 --> 00:16:20.897
I think this is a very bad move

00:16:21.157 --> 00:16:23.336
from a lot of companies that are trying

00:16:23.356 --> 00:16:24.177
to push this now.

00:16:25.977 --> 00:16:26.979
It's only going to be a matter of

00:16:27.019 --> 00:16:27.339
time.

00:16:27.479 --> 00:16:28.259
Like last year,

00:16:28.278 --> 00:16:29.759
we saw the breach with seventy thousand

00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:30.879
IDs from Discord.

00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:32.461
And I think it's only a matter of

00:16:32.520 --> 00:16:36.121
time before these KID companies get

00:16:36.182 --> 00:16:37.361
compromised in some way.

00:16:37.881 --> 00:16:40.863
It's a treasure trove of data for hackers

00:16:40.923 --> 00:16:43.604
to go after because they are dealing with

00:16:43.663 --> 00:16:44.965
such sensitive information.

00:16:45.524 --> 00:16:49.207
Um, so I think it's, I dunno,

00:16:49.548 --> 00:16:51.229
I'm really annoyed by this.

00:16:51.328 --> 00:16:52.690
I think more people should be talking

00:16:52.710 --> 00:16:53.110
about it.

00:16:53.390 --> 00:16:53.471
Um,

00:16:53.551 --> 00:16:55.572
I did put together some posts on social

00:16:55.613 --> 00:16:55.893
media,

00:16:55.952 --> 00:16:57.234
kind of pushing people towards

00:16:57.333 --> 00:16:58.774
alternatives for their communities.

00:16:59.095 --> 00:16:59.274
Um,

00:17:00.275 --> 00:17:01.956
so I don't know if anyone saw that,

00:17:02.177 --> 00:17:04.318
but, um, I think it's,

00:17:04.459 --> 00:17:05.779
it's also a problem, uh,

00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:07.401
with a lot of these, you know,

00:17:07.441 --> 00:17:10.182
community setups where you need to

00:17:10.242 --> 00:17:10.844
basically

00:17:11.775 --> 00:17:13.675
advocate for these platforms in the

00:17:13.715 --> 00:17:14.836
entirety of the community,

00:17:14.876 --> 00:17:17.038
because if not everyone moves,

00:17:17.577 --> 00:17:18.759
then you basically,

00:17:20.038 --> 00:17:21.880
you're not going to be able to use

00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:22.560
the platform.

00:17:24.422 --> 00:17:25.342
So, you know,

00:17:25.382 --> 00:17:27.343
it's kind of a frustrating space to be

00:17:27.383 --> 00:17:27.963
in right now.

00:17:28.304 --> 00:17:30.944
But yeah, what do you think, Nate?

00:17:33.366 --> 00:17:34.047
Yeah, for sure.

00:17:35.548 --> 00:17:36.867
In regards to your post, actually,

00:17:36.907 --> 00:17:39.569
that was included in the newsletter this

00:17:39.609 --> 00:17:39.750
week,

00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:41.820
So if you all are subscribed to the

00:17:41.840 --> 00:17:42.280
newsletter,

00:17:43.300 --> 00:17:44.862
you definitely got a direct link to that

00:17:44.902 --> 00:17:45.582
on Mastodon.

00:17:45.843 --> 00:17:48.963
And I also included a link to our

00:17:50.125 --> 00:17:52.164
social media tab on the website for other

00:17:52.204 --> 00:17:53.665
platforms that people could share it at.

00:17:53.705 --> 00:17:56.988
But I just had a couple of quick

00:17:57.008 --> 00:17:57.268
thoughts.

00:17:57.307 --> 00:18:01.068
So you're right about in terms of what

00:18:01.108 --> 00:18:02.890
servers are defined as and up.

00:18:03.369 --> 00:18:06.211
In some cases, users can pick that.

00:18:07.266 --> 00:18:08.248
When you make the server,

00:18:08.327 --> 00:18:10.430
you can check if it's eighteen and up

00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:10.769
or not.

00:18:11.371 --> 00:18:14.775
But Discord does also have a mechanism to

00:18:14.875 --> 00:18:16.436
automatically determine that the server is

00:18:16.477 --> 00:18:17.057
eighteen and up.

00:18:17.657 --> 00:18:20.401
So on the one hand, it's like, well,

00:18:20.441 --> 00:18:22.202
it's only eighteen up if people choose to

00:18:22.222 --> 00:18:22.723
make it that.

00:18:22.743 --> 00:18:23.384
But on the other hand,

00:18:23.424 --> 00:18:25.146
Discord does have like an automated way.

00:18:25.227 --> 00:18:26.208
So you're definitely...

00:18:26.788 --> 00:18:28.329
You make a really good point there where

00:18:28.369 --> 00:18:29.930
that could turn into a problem later.

00:18:30.109 --> 00:18:31.431
This is the same issue we've cited with

00:18:31.451 --> 00:18:33.651
things like on-device scanning of photos,

00:18:33.730 --> 00:18:34.211
right?

00:18:34.551 --> 00:18:34.892
Sure,

00:18:35.011 --> 00:18:37.031
right now it could be used for totally

00:18:37.092 --> 00:18:39.512
legitimate things like detecting CSAM and

00:18:39.613 --> 00:18:40.053
abuse,

00:18:40.453 --> 00:18:41.874
but what happens when an authoritarian

00:18:41.913 --> 00:18:43.013
government gets their hands on it and

00:18:43.034 --> 00:18:43.494
says, oh,

00:18:43.575 --> 00:18:44.934
now we want to identify people who were

00:18:44.974 --> 00:18:46.415
at a protest and stuff like that.

00:18:46.496 --> 00:18:49.896
So it could potentially be a slippery

00:18:49.916 --> 00:18:50.557
slope for sure.

00:18:52.835 --> 00:18:53.536
Um, real quick,

00:18:53.816 --> 00:18:55.596
I did actually go and find the

00:18:55.978 --> 00:18:57.818
restrictions for teen accounts.

00:18:57.959 --> 00:18:58.720
Where did that go?

00:19:00.101 --> 00:19:02.063
Um, so there's content filters.

00:19:02.103 --> 00:19:04.203
We talked about that with the servers, um,

00:19:04.223 --> 00:19:04.944
or no, no, no, uh,

00:19:05.045 --> 00:19:06.566
sensitive content will be blurred by

00:19:06.605 --> 00:19:08.968
default and you will need to be eight

00:19:09.008 --> 00:19:11.650
quote unquote age assured in order to

00:19:11.750 --> 00:19:13.192
unblur sensitive content or turn off the

00:19:13.211 --> 00:19:13.471
setting.

00:19:14.278 --> 00:19:15.119
Age gate spaces,

00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:16.000
we already talked about that.

00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:17.401
Channel servers and app commands.

00:19:18.481 --> 00:19:20.123
Direct messages from people a user may not

00:19:20.163 --> 00:19:21.984
know are routed to a separate inbox by

00:19:22.045 --> 00:19:22.505
default,

00:19:22.724 --> 00:19:24.326
and access to modify this setting is

00:19:24.385 --> 00:19:27.327
limited to age-assured users.

00:19:28.148 --> 00:19:30.049
People will receive warning prompts for

00:19:30.089 --> 00:19:31.371
friend requests from users they may not

00:19:31.411 --> 00:19:31.711
know,

00:19:31.931 --> 00:19:33.653
and only age-assured adults may speak

00:19:33.752 --> 00:19:34.813
onstage in servers.

00:19:36.054 --> 00:19:37.776
I don't even know what onstage is,

00:19:37.855 --> 00:19:38.195
but yeah.

00:19:38.859 --> 00:19:41.301
And then, yeah, real quick,

00:19:41.501 --> 00:19:43.683
I also found you sent me that Matrix

00:19:43.703 --> 00:19:44.525
blog post, thank you.

00:19:44.684 --> 00:19:45.945
And some of the things they say that

00:19:45.965 --> 00:19:47.527
they're missing is they're missing things

00:19:47.567 --> 00:19:49.248
like game streaming, push to talk,

00:19:49.288 --> 00:19:50.670
voice channels, custom emojis,

00:19:51.049 --> 00:19:51.951
extensible presence,

00:19:52.030 --> 00:19:54.573
richer hierarchical moderation, et cetera.

00:19:54.712 --> 00:19:56.875
And not to make this like a Matrix

00:19:57.234 --> 00:19:57.855
hate session,

00:19:57.875 --> 00:19:59.115
but I think to me personally,

00:20:00.297 --> 00:20:01.699
I ran my own community a couple of

00:20:01.719 --> 00:20:04.740
years ago and that was by a wide

00:20:04.780 --> 00:20:05.201
margin.

00:20:06.021 --> 00:20:07.682
The biggest thing that I struggled with

00:20:07.762 --> 00:20:08.223
was that

00:20:09.894 --> 00:20:12.236
The moderation tools in matrix are

00:20:13.635 --> 00:20:15.057
honestly to call them bare bones as being

00:20:15.096 --> 00:20:16.336
generous because it's the things you would

00:20:16.356 --> 00:20:17.897
expect on any given platform.

00:20:17.938 --> 00:20:19.378
Like you can ban a user from the

00:20:19.398 --> 00:20:19.638
room,

00:20:20.558 --> 00:20:22.819
you can create moderators and you can set

00:20:22.859 --> 00:20:23.759
moderator permissions.

00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:24.780
And that's about it.

00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:26.740
And then, and I mean, to be fair,

00:20:27.281 --> 00:20:28.382
I would argue discord's built in

00:20:28.422 --> 00:20:30.782
moderation tools are also absolute trash,

00:20:31.343 --> 00:20:32.824
but discord also has a lot of third

00:20:32.864 --> 00:20:34.564
party bots that are really good.

00:20:35.184 --> 00:20:36.224
At least some of them are really good.

00:20:37.586 --> 00:20:38.507
And again,

00:20:38.527 --> 00:20:40.388
I'm not trying to crap on the matrix

00:20:40.409 --> 00:20:42.089
people, but like the matrix bots,

00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:42.651
and I'm told,

00:20:42.671 --> 00:20:43.971
I don't know if this has changed because

00:20:44.132 --> 00:20:45.752
I haven't really been active on matrix in

00:20:45.772 --> 00:20:46.193
a long time,

00:20:46.253 --> 00:20:48.836
but at the time that I was struggling

00:20:48.855 --> 00:20:49.395
with matrix,

00:20:49.557 --> 00:20:52.618
I was told that the bot makers were

00:20:52.659 --> 00:20:54.580
really hindered by the APIs they could get

00:20:54.621 --> 00:20:55.060
from matrix.

00:20:55.101 --> 00:20:55.701
So for example,

00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:57.720
On Discord,

00:20:58.381 --> 00:21:00.000
there are bots that will automatically

00:21:00.040 --> 00:21:01.321
kick somebody out if their account is

00:21:01.422 --> 00:21:02.162
under a certain age.

00:21:02.221 --> 00:21:04.022
Like if the account was made less than

00:21:04.042 --> 00:21:05.124
a week ago or two weeks ago,

00:21:05.703 --> 00:21:06.463
automatically boot it,

00:21:06.624 --> 00:21:07.464
which is a great way to get rid

00:21:07.484 --> 00:21:08.684
of spammers because most of them just make

00:21:08.704 --> 00:21:09.425
a new account and join.

00:21:10.425 --> 00:21:11.645
At the time that I was active on

00:21:11.685 --> 00:21:12.067
Matrix,

00:21:12.666 --> 00:21:13.926
the bot makers couldn't access that

00:21:13.967 --> 00:21:14.428
information.

00:21:14.488 --> 00:21:14.827
So they're like,

00:21:14.847 --> 00:21:15.928
we don't know how old an account is.

00:21:15.968 --> 00:21:18.409
We can't tell the bot to boot anybody

00:21:18.429 --> 00:21:20.509
who's under a certain age, which is...

00:21:20.529 --> 00:21:22.131
I don't know.

00:21:22.211 --> 00:21:23.311
And that's another concern of mine

00:21:23.352 --> 00:21:23.751
because...

00:21:25.022 --> 00:21:26.525
that was the big complaint with mastodon

00:21:26.605 --> 00:21:28.906
at least as i remember it when elon

00:21:28.926 --> 00:21:30.528
bought twitter and everybody was leaving

00:21:30.567 --> 00:21:32.309
twitter and i remember a lot of people

00:21:32.329 --> 00:21:33.791
saying like oh there's not any good

00:21:33.852 --> 00:21:36.273
moderation tools on mastodon a lot of

00:21:36.493 --> 00:21:38.155
minority people don't feel safe there

00:21:39.416 --> 00:21:41.317
I don't know how Twitter was not worse

00:21:41.337 --> 00:21:41.637
than that.

00:21:42.538 --> 00:21:43.199
No, it was blue sky.

00:21:43.239 --> 00:21:44.519
Everybody was going to blue sky because

00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:46.201
apparently blue sky had moderation tools.

00:21:46.441 --> 00:21:46.740
I don't know.

00:21:47.181 --> 00:21:48.281
But anyways, it's like,

00:21:48.342 --> 00:21:49.402
I feel like it's the same thing with

00:21:49.442 --> 00:21:49.823
matrix.

00:21:49.843 --> 00:21:51.103
Like if there are not these tools to

00:21:51.123 --> 00:21:52.844
keep your users and your community safe,

00:21:53.404 --> 00:21:54.424
nobody's going to stick around there.

00:21:55.005 --> 00:21:55.445
Like I,

00:21:55.586 --> 00:21:56.746
I got my brother on matrix for a

00:21:56.766 --> 00:21:58.247
while and he left after a while because

00:21:58.267 --> 00:21:58.626
he's like, yeah,

00:21:58.646 --> 00:22:00.567
I got tired of seeing people spam rooms

00:22:00.587 --> 00:22:01.128
with CSAM.

00:22:01.868 --> 00:22:06.192
like the yeah all right um anyways it's

00:22:06.211 --> 00:22:09.773
just not a good landscape unfortunately i

00:22:09.814 --> 00:22:13.196
think um oh and then there was sorry

00:22:13.277 --> 00:22:14.538
real quick there's one last thing i do

00:22:14.577 --> 00:22:18.180
want to mention jonah raised our raised a

00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:20.662
point in the chat earlier this week that

00:22:21.442 --> 00:22:23.584
some people think this is about discord

00:22:24.124 --> 00:22:26.144
getting ready for ipo because discord is

00:22:26.164 --> 00:22:28.186
getting ready to go public and

00:22:30.086 --> 00:22:31.326
I mean, this totally tracks in my book.

00:22:32.106 --> 00:22:33.627
Some people think that this is Discord

00:22:33.667 --> 00:22:35.690
trying to verify how many actual humans

00:22:35.730 --> 00:22:36.690
they have on their platform.

00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:38.392
Because if they can show like, hey,

00:22:38.511 --> 00:22:40.113
ninety percent of our users are real

00:22:40.153 --> 00:22:42.013
people and we verified them and we know

00:22:42.054 --> 00:22:44.296
that that makes their company that much

00:22:44.316 --> 00:22:45.096
more valuable.

00:22:45.135 --> 00:22:46.757
So I just want to make sure we

00:22:46.936 --> 00:22:48.538
we presented that argument.

00:22:49.878 --> 00:22:50.359
Or that point.

00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:52.060
Yeah, I don't know.

00:22:52.161 --> 00:22:53.481
I think a lot of people that have

00:22:53.501 --> 00:22:55.262
been using like I was one of the

00:22:55.303 --> 00:22:57.884
original people who was like using Discord

00:22:57.924 --> 00:22:59.405
back in, I think, twenty fifteen.

00:23:01.262 --> 00:23:03.663
And I feel like back then it was

00:23:03.864 --> 00:23:05.765
a much better platform than it is now,

00:23:05.904 --> 00:23:07.424
even though it had a lot less features,

00:23:08.346 --> 00:23:09.866
which is kind of unfortunate because I

00:23:09.906 --> 00:23:11.807
think since about, you know,

00:23:11.846 --> 00:23:13.468
twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen,

00:23:13.748 --> 00:23:15.588
they've started adding all these like

00:23:15.808 --> 00:23:17.609
obviously they have to try and make money.

00:23:17.670 --> 00:23:20.090
This isn't like they've been dumping money

00:23:20.111 --> 00:23:22.011
into keeping this chat service alive,

00:23:22.031 --> 00:23:23.073
keeping it freemium.

00:23:24.153 --> 00:23:26.493
I think it's kind of inevitable,

00:23:26.693 --> 00:23:27.914
inevitable that they're going to

00:23:28.652 --> 00:23:30.353
make it like really crap and add a

00:23:30.373 --> 00:23:33.836
bunch of annoying uh paid stuff um so

00:23:33.915 --> 00:23:36.018
i mean it definitely makes sense that

00:23:36.038 --> 00:23:37.898
they're trying to verify everyone's a real

00:23:37.939 --> 00:23:40.902
person um but i think one one thing

00:23:40.922 --> 00:23:43.923
we should definitely uh check in here is

00:23:44.044 --> 00:23:45.744
we we did get quite a few comments

00:23:45.765 --> 00:23:48.227
just while we were discussing stuff here

00:23:48.366 --> 00:23:50.749
so um i think i want to cover

00:23:50.769 --> 00:23:53.490
this one here from blind goose on twitter

00:23:53.731 --> 00:23:53.832
um

00:23:55.171 --> 00:23:56.652
I think Apple and Google need to work

00:23:56.731 --> 00:23:59.013
on a digital ID where they verify your

00:23:59.114 --> 00:24:00.674
ID card, store it on your phone.

00:24:01.115 --> 00:24:03.276
They can with permission share just your

00:24:03.415 --> 00:24:05.397
age or more identifiable information if

00:24:05.458 --> 00:24:05.718
needed.

00:24:06.198 --> 00:24:07.659
When applying for a credit card,

00:24:07.679 --> 00:24:09.079
the storage can be a hundred percent on

00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:09.480
device,

00:24:09.500 --> 00:24:11.361
meaning not even Apple or Google servers

00:24:11.381 --> 00:24:12.102
have that data.

00:24:13.123 --> 00:24:15.044
I mean, I think that would be.

00:24:18.450 --> 00:24:18.630
I mean,

00:24:18.670 --> 00:24:20.550
that would be the ideal situation for a

00:24:20.570 --> 00:24:21.392
digital ID,

00:24:21.491 --> 00:24:24.134
but I think there's other issues with

00:24:24.594 --> 00:24:25.994
digital ID systems.

00:24:27.955 --> 00:24:28.896
Like, for instance,

00:24:28.936 --> 00:24:30.178
we've already seen this a little bit,

00:24:30.218 --> 00:24:32.538
but a lot of websites that are being

00:24:33.500 --> 00:24:38.722
restricted aren't actually technically not

00:24:38.943 --> 00:24:41.525
safe for work or not safe for children.

00:24:42.326 --> 00:24:43.626
So it's

00:24:45.836 --> 00:24:46.175
it's,

00:24:46.375 --> 00:24:47.977
it's gotta be done in a way that

00:24:48.877 --> 00:24:49.038
I mean,

00:24:49.057 --> 00:24:51.179
I would prefer if it didn't exist because

00:24:51.259 --> 00:24:51.538
you know,

00:24:51.598 --> 00:24:53.500
there's also that fact that there'll be

00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:56.501
Apple and Google is kind of becoming the,

00:24:57.823 --> 00:24:59.084
uh, what do you call it?

00:24:59.403 --> 00:24:59.443
Um,

00:25:02.013 --> 00:25:04.795
the people who decide gatekeepers yeah the

00:25:04.815 --> 00:25:07.214
people who decide if you're actually able

00:25:07.255 --> 00:25:10.615
to access something um and i think that's

00:25:10.736 --> 00:25:13.257
probably not the greatest outcome um we

00:25:13.277 --> 00:25:15.998
should be trying to push for things to

00:25:16.018 --> 00:25:19.919
be freely available um same thing with the

00:25:20.058 --> 00:25:22.279
discord communities you know um so

00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.124
I think it would be good if it

00:25:26.144 --> 00:25:27.184
was the only option,

00:25:27.265 --> 00:25:28.487
but it isn't the only option.

00:25:28.507 --> 00:25:30.249
There's also the option of not having age

00:25:30.269 --> 00:25:31.049
verification.

00:25:31.150 --> 00:25:33.353
So maybe we should do that instead.

00:25:35.095 --> 00:25:36.175
But that's my thought on it.

00:25:37.778 --> 00:25:39.641
And did you see any other questions here

00:25:39.661 --> 00:25:41.143
that we should probably quickly cover?

00:25:42.696 --> 00:25:42.936
Yeah,

00:25:42.957 --> 00:25:44.460
there's one other I want to – or

00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:46.603
two, but one of them is really quick.

00:25:46.823 --> 00:25:47.564
And real quick,

00:25:47.845 --> 00:25:48.806
I just want to say I agree with

00:25:48.846 --> 00:25:48.965
you.

00:25:49.067 --> 00:25:50.648
Like this is one of the things that

00:25:50.689 --> 00:25:51.810
frustrates me so much about age

00:25:51.851 --> 00:25:54.354
verification is we could have – we

00:25:54.494 --> 00:25:56.698
absolutely have the technical ability to

00:25:56.778 --> 00:25:57.759
have solutions.

00:25:58.536 --> 00:26:00.116
that are much more privacy respecting,

00:26:00.196 --> 00:26:01.717
like what discord is proposing here,

00:26:01.777 --> 00:26:03.238
where like everything stays on device and

00:26:03.317 --> 00:26:04.258
all they get is a yes or no

00:26:04.298 --> 00:26:04.678
token.

00:26:05.178 --> 00:26:06.898
And I'm not saying face scan.

00:26:06.919 --> 00:26:07.479
And like you said,

00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.019
there's definitely other problems with age

00:26:09.038 --> 00:26:10.319
verification, but it's like,

00:26:10.339 --> 00:26:11.799
this is just one more piece of the

00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:12.160
puzzle.

00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:12.520
It's like,

00:26:12.601 --> 00:26:13.921
why do we always have to go for

00:26:13.941 --> 00:26:15.361
the worst possible solution?

00:26:15.582 --> 00:26:16.801
But, um,

00:26:17.515 --> 00:26:17.855
Real quick,

00:26:17.875 --> 00:26:20.615
I wanted to point out Anonymous Thirty

00:26:20.635 --> 00:26:21.855
Five pointed out, he said,

00:26:21.915 --> 00:26:23.356
so they have a mechanism for when an

00:26:23.396 --> 00:26:25.116
adult is put in an underage category.

00:26:25.457 --> 00:26:27.057
But what happens when Discord accidentally

00:26:27.077 --> 00:26:28.978
makes a child overage, which is.

00:26:30.999 --> 00:26:32.439
I think a really good point that I

00:26:32.479 --> 00:26:33.439
haven't heard before,

00:26:33.578 --> 00:26:34.900
and I don't know if it's necessarily like

00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.039
a big part of this argument,

00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:37.160
but I certainly think it's a really good

00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:37.441
point.

00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:38.780
Like what happens when they mess up in

00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:38.820
a.

00:26:39.425 --> 00:26:40.967
Sixteen year old gets access to porn

00:26:41.126 --> 00:26:41.826
servers now.

00:26:42.146 --> 00:26:45.087
And yeah, that's, that's not great.

00:26:45.428 --> 00:26:47.368
And then the last thing I wanted to

00:26:47.409 --> 00:26:49.430
highlight is one of our YouTube users

00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:49.650
says,

00:26:49.710 --> 00:26:51.070
are there any alternatives to discord?

00:26:51.171 --> 00:26:51.411
I mean,

00:26:51.810 --> 00:26:54.551
unfortunately I do still think that matrix

00:26:54.632 --> 00:26:55.751
is the best alternative we have.

00:26:55.771 --> 00:26:57.752
And I know I feel a little bad

00:26:57.792 --> 00:26:59.413
because we've sat here and talked about

00:26:59.473 --> 00:27:00.894
all the things that matrix is missing,

00:27:01.474 --> 00:27:01.855
but you know,

00:27:01.894 --> 00:27:03.755
you mentioned that you used to use discord

00:27:03.796 --> 00:27:05.115
back when it was still a lot more

00:27:05.155 --> 00:27:05.816
bare bones.

00:27:06.497 --> 00:27:06.977
And yeah,

00:27:07.856 --> 00:27:12.278
I think I saw a similar statement from

00:27:12.318 --> 00:27:12.719
somebody else.

00:27:12.778 --> 00:27:13.559
I can't find it now.

00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:17.740
But I think the issue is that there's

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:19.622
this concept in psychology called the

00:27:19.642 --> 00:27:23.084
hedonic treadmill where basically if you

00:27:23.124 --> 00:27:24.984
make any amount of money,

00:27:25.065 --> 00:27:28.125
like say you make decent money and then

00:27:28.205 --> 00:27:29.406
you get a raise and now you can

00:27:29.426 --> 00:27:32.067
afford a nicer car or a nicer home

00:27:32.087 --> 00:27:32.448
or whatever.

00:27:33.446 --> 00:27:35.589
it's really hard to take that pay cut

00:27:35.730 --> 00:27:36.590
and downsize.

00:27:36.891 --> 00:27:37.711
Like you could do it,

00:27:37.792 --> 00:27:39.213
obviously it's possible,

00:27:39.755 --> 00:27:41.096
but it's very difficult.

00:27:41.237 --> 00:27:42.337
And especially for people to do it

00:27:42.397 --> 00:27:42.818
willingly.

00:27:42.939 --> 00:27:44.480
And I think that's what's so hard is

00:27:44.942 --> 00:27:46.723
it's really hard for people to,

00:27:47.963 --> 00:27:49.786
now that they've had all these really nice

00:27:49.806 --> 00:27:51.446
features like these custom emojis these

00:27:52.047 --> 00:27:54.809
you know fancy profiles that they can deck

00:27:54.869 --> 00:27:56.951
out with nitro and stuff like that i

00:27:56.971 --> 00:27:58.211
think it's just gonna make it that much

00:27:58.271 --> 00:28:01.013
harder for people to scale back to

00:28:01.054 --> 00:28:02.455
something a little bit more bare bones

00:28:02.996 --> 00:28:04.896
purely in the name of like and especially

00:28:04.916 --> 00:28:06.038
in some servers where it's like well i

00:28:06.057 --> 00:28:07.579
still have to turn over my id anyways

00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:09.221
and you know when they're dealing with

00:28:09.280 --> 00:28:11.363
potential encryption key issues which

00:28:12.103 --> 00:28:13.404
I am still having to this day.

00:28:13.525 --> 00:28:15.048
I opened a matrix today for the first

00:28:15.067 --> 00:28:16.148
time in a long time and half the

00:28:16.190 --> 00:28:17.491
messages are encrypted because of key

00:28:17.551 --> 00:28:19.434
issues and, you know, things like that.

00:28:19.474 --> 00:28:20.015
It's just, it's,

00:28:21.057 --> 00:28:22.318
I'm not saying that there aren't people

00:28:22.338 --> 00:28:23.319
who wouldn't be willing to do it.

00:28:23.361 --> 00:28:23.740
I'm just saying,

00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:25.344
I think it's a really tough sell and

00:28:25.384 --> 00:28:26.244
I think that's unfortunate.

00:28:28.431 --> 00:28:30.153
Yeah, I mean, personally,

00:28:30.313 --> 00:28:33.195
I think no one's really talked about this

00:28:33.895 --> 00:28:34.356
so far,

00:28:34.416 --> 00:28:38.641
but I find Signal works perfectly fine as

00:28:38.681 --> 00:28:40.701
like a replacement for Discord.

00:28:41.943 --> 00:28:43.904
You can do group voice chats,

00:28:44.005 --> 00:28:45.906
group video calls.

00:28:46.887 --> 00:28:47.989
I guess it is a benefit of a

00:28:48.028 --> 00:28:49.971
centralized service because, you know,

00:28:51.367 --> 00:28:52.429
There's only one server.

00:28:53.388 --> 00:28:54.390
There's not like a bunch of

00:28:54.650 --> 00:28:56.090
interoperability issues.

00:28:56.531 --> 00:28:59.233
So it could be worth trying SignalOut,

00:28:59.933 --> 00:29:01.895
especially now because you don't have to

00:29:03.576 --> 00:29:04.877
share your phone number with people.

00:29:05.117 --> 00:29:06.699
So you can kind of do it anonymously.

00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:09.621
So I think that would be also a

00:29:09.661 --> 00:29:10.821
good alternative to try.

00:29:11.241 --> 00:29:12.083
But I think...

00:29:14.525 --> 00:29:15.507
Yeah,

00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:19.031
there's not a lot of good alternatives

00:29:19.051 --> 00:29:21.455
that do everything because Discord is sort

00:29:21.496 --> 00:29:23.298
of one of those applications where

00:29:23.338 --> 00:29:24.340
everything is just...

00:29:26.262 --> 00:29:27.403
it just has all the features,

00:29:27.523 --> 00:29:29.304
but I would also, uh,

00:29:29.403 --> 00:29:30.944
issue a plea to people,

00:29:31.505 --> 00:29:34.507
please stop putting everything behind a

00:29:34.567 --> 00:29:35.507
discord server.

00:29:35.567 --> 00:29:37.528
Please use a website, use something.

00:29:37.567 --> 00:29:38.627
I don't want to have to sign up

00:29:38.667 --> 00:29:39.288
for discord.

00:29:39.308 --> 00:29:40.888
Like there's so many communities where

00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:44.750
they decide for whatever reason,

00:29:44.790 --> 00:29:46.652
that's their only community is going to be

00:29:46.731 --> 00:29:47.412
on discord.

00:29:47.432 --> 00:29:49.012
They're going to store all the information

00:29:49.053 --> 00:29:50.212
in a discord server.

00:29:51.034 --> 00:29:51.173
Um,

00:29:52.699 --> 00:29:53.680
I think that's ridiculous.

00:29:53.819 --> 00:29:56.501
It's not accessible for everybody because

00:29:56.561 --> 00:29:57.823
you need a Discord account.

00:29:58.463 --> 00:29:59.944
And it's also just a bad way of

00:30:00.005 --> 00:30:01.105
displaying information.

00:30:01.306 --> 00:30:04.169
Like who thought that putting things in

00:30:04.229 --> 00:30:05.910
chat channels and then just like,

00:30:05.970 --> 00:30:06.270
you know,

00:30:07.010 --> 00:30:09.073
having to scroll around and search for

00:30:09.113 --> 00:30:10.835
messages is a good idea.

00:30:10.855 --> 00:30:13.457
Like we have forums for that.

00:30:14.846 --> 00:30:18.073
We have websites for that, like wikis.

00:30:19.114 --> 00:30:21.077
So it's really frustrating that there's a

00:30:21.097 --> 00:30:22.420
whole bunch of information that

00:30:23.630 --> 00:30:25.691
is kind of inaccessible to people that

00:30:25.711 --> 00:30:26.611
don't have discord.

00:30:26.851 --> 00:30:29.932
And I really hope that after this whole

00:30:29.991 --> 00:30:30.511
saga,

00:30:30.672 --> 00:30:31.932
a lot of people are going to start,

00:30:31.971 --> 00:30:32.291
you know,

00:30:32.991 --> 00:30:35.553
moving things to platforms where there's

00:30:35.613 --> 00:30:38.814
no central authority that just decides,

00:30:39.173 --> 00:30:40.594
Oh no, your server's now,

00:30:40.614 --> 00:30:43.295
so no children allowed.

00:30:43.734 --> 00:30:43.835
Um,

00:30:43.855 --> 00:30:46.335
and it could be for something completely

00:30:46.694 --> 00:30:47.296
benign.

00:30:47.756 --> 00:30:47.976
So, um,

00:30:48.915 --> 00:30:49.855
I don't know.

00:30:49.875 --> 00:30:50.215
I just,

00:30:50.375 --> 00:30:52.457
I'm just really frustrated with how many

00:30:52.497 --> 00:30:55.678
communities rely so heavily on Discord and

00:30:55.738 --> 00:30:57.679
they don't seem to want to move to

00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:58.878
any other platform.

00:30:59.239 --> 00:31:01.940
And yeah,

00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:03.641
I've kind of just been trying to avoid

00:31:03.921 --> 00:31:04.681
getting Discord,

00:31:04.721 --> 00:31:06.182
but there's so many communities that I

00:31:06.201 --> 00:31:08.583
want to access because there's information

00:31:08.643 --> 00:31:10.843
in there that I need that I can't

00:31:10.923 --> 00:31:11.903
access otherwise.

00:31:11.983 --> 00:31:13.483
So anyway,

00:31:13.923 --> 00:31:15.625
that's just me ranting a little bit.

00:31:18.088 --> 00:31:19.711
I just need to say that regarding your

00:31:19.731 --> 00:31:20.172
first point,

00:31:20.211 --> 00:31:24.479
I totally agree with you because I'm...

00:31:24.838 --> 00:31:25.380
I'll cut it short.

00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:25.780
But anyways,

00:31:25.840 --> 00:31:27.403
I've been in big servers where...

00:31:28.439 --> 00:31:30.559
they just move too fast and I can't

00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:31.400
keep up with them.

00:31:31.539 --> 00:31:31.921
And like,

00:31:32.340 --> 00:31:33.661
I'm literally in one server just for the

00:31:33.701 --> 00:31:34.622
little name tag.

00:31:34.741 --> 00:31:35.061
I'm not,

00:31:35.162 --> 00:31:37.182
I never even go in there because there's

00:31:37.502 --> 00:31:39.304
tens of thousands of users.

00:31:39.844 --> 00:31:41.105
And every time I check,

00:31:41.144 --> 00:31:42.846
there's a conversation going on and I

00:31:42.865 --> 00:31:44.006
don't know what's going on and I don't

00:31:44.026 --> 00:31:44.846
know anybody in there.

00:31:45.487 --> 00:31:46.547
I know that makes it a feedback loop,

00:31:46.567 --> 00:31:48.067
but my point being like, yeah, if you're,

00:31:48.167 --> 00:31:49.628
it drives me insane when they're like, Oh,

00:31:50.009 --> 00:31:51.210
our support channel, our,

00:31:51.450 --> 00:31:53.550
our primary support channel is discord.

00:31:53.631 --> 00:31:54.090
And it's like,

00:31:55.042 --> 00:31:55.462
Why?

00:31:55.623 --> 00:31:55.762
Like,

00:31:55.804 --> 00:31:57.724
what if I join and I can't get

00:31:57.785 --> 00:32:00.026
help because there's ten thousand other

00:32:00.066 --> 00:32:02.106
people chatting and nobody sees my

00:32:02.146 --> 00:32:02.426
question?

00:32:02.446 --> 00:32:03.587
And I know some of them have like

00:32:03.607 --> 00:32:05.108
a little ticket system that you can open

00:32:05.148 --> 00:32:07.269
things, but it's just yeah,

00:32:07.410 --> 00:32:08.971
I'm not I'm not a fan of that

00:32:08.990 --> 00:32:09.211
either.

00:32:09.250 --> 00:32:10.392
To me, it feels like a very sloppy.

00:32:10.432 --> 00:32:11.092
It's almost like Reddit,

00:32:11.291 --> 00:32:12.373
like no offense to Reddit,

00:32:13.032 --> 00:32:13.794
some offense to Reddit.

00:32:14.253 --> 00:32:16.255
But when when somebody like a company is

00:32:16.275 --> 00:32:17.435
like, oh, our, you know,

00:32:17.556 --> 00:32:19.396
Reddit is where you follow us or open

00:32:19.436 --> 00:32:20.017
support ticket.

00:32:20.037 --> 00:32:21.258
It's just like that's not a support

00:32:21.298 --> 00:32:21.738
channel, man.

00:32:21.758 --> 00:32:22.479
That's just lazy.

00:32:22.578 --> 00:32:23.720
So I'm with you.

00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:24.440
I don't like that either.

00:32:26.005 --> 00:32:26.605
Yeah,

00:32:26.625 --> 00:32:28.268
there's been so many times and I've been

00:32:28.307 --> 00:32:29.729
like, oh, I'll join this.

00:32:30.690 --> 00:32:32.051
I guess I have to make a Discord

00:32:32.092 --> 00:32:32.451
account.

00:32:32.772 --> 00:32:33.032
I know,

00:32:33.073 --> 00:32:34.954
I'll just use like a burner phone number

00:32:35.315 --> 00:32:37.438
and a burner email and then I sign

00:32:37.478 --> 00:32:39.138
into the server and then I get booted

00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:41.342
instantly because there's an age policy.

00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:43.521
You can't have an account that was just

00:32:43.561 --> 00:32:44.021
created.

00:32:44.761 --> 00:32:46.643
It's just really annoying to deal with

00:32:47.202 --> 00:32:49.183
anyone that has their only community on

00:32:49.223 --> 00:32:49.763
Discord.

00:32:51.805 --> 00:32:53.105
And I think now is the best time

00:32:53.145 --> 00:32:54.026
to diversify.

00:32:54.625 --> 00:32:55.866
Just have another community.

00:32:56.186 --> 00:32:57.106
You don't have to get rid of the

00:32:57.186 --> 00:32:57.508
old one.

00:32:57.528 --> 00:32:59.587
You can open another one somewhere else.

00:32:59.627 --> 00:33:00.669
You can start a wiki

00:33:01.249 --> 00:33:02.329
as well as a Discord.

00:33:02.789 --> 00:33:04.751
You can start a discourse forum as well

00:33:04.771 --> 00:33:05.392
as a Discord.

00:33:05.873 --> 00:33:08.555
Just have another option because if

00:33:08.615 --> 00:33:10.036
Discord does go to crap,

00:33:10.076 --> 00:33:12.438
then at least you have another option for

00:33:12.478 --> 00:33:13.138
communicating.

00:33:14.078 --> 00:33:15.180
So, anyway.

00:33:16.861 --> 00:33:17.162
Totally.

00:33:17.741 --> 00:33:18.323
It is what it is.

00:33:18.343 --> 00:33:21.884
All right.

00:33:21.965 --> 00:33:23.846
I believe you've got the next story here

00:33:23.926 --> 00:33:24.867
about Google.

00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:27.019
Yes.

00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.442
So this next story comes from Ars

00:33:30.501 --> 00:33:31.041
Technica.

00:33:31.682 --> 00:33:34.663
Upgraded Google safety tools can now find

00:33:34.763 --> 00:33:36.724
and remove more of your personal info.

00:33:37.164 --> 00:33:39.566
The results about new tool is getting an

00:33:39.625 --> 00:33:40.086
upgrade.

00:33:40.767 --> 00:33:43.288
So this is actually a tool that we

00:33:44.127 --> 00:33:48.069
suggest to use at Privacy Guides because

00:33:48.190 --> 00:33:52.613
it does enable you to basically enter your

00:33:52.653 --> 00:33:54.493
personal information and have Google

00:33:54.773 --> 00:33:57.275
periodically check Google search results

00:33:57.295 --> 00:33:59.635
for information that appears about you.

00:34:00.237 --> 00:34:02.538
And this is kind of useful because if

00:34:02.557 --> 00:34:04.058
there's things like your address,

00:34:04.098 --> 00:34:05.078
your phone number,

00:34:05.499 --> 00:34:08.121
your email address showing up in Google

00:34:08.141 --> 00:34:10.481
searches, that could be a safety issue.

00:34:11.322 --> 00:34:11.442
So

00:34:12.742 --> 00:34:16.085
That is why we do recommend, you know,

00:34:16.184 --> 00:34:17.425
if you don't have any other option,

00:34:17.465 --> 00:34:18.847
if you don't want to do it like

00:34:18.927 --> 00:34:19.887
manually all the time,

00:34:20.286 --> 00:34:22.248
it is something that we do recommend to

00:34:22.288 --> 00:34:25.889
do because, you know,

00:34:25.989 --> 00:34:27.490
it's going to be able to find that

00:34:27.530 --> 00:34:30.052
information and alert you if it's actually

00:34:31.112 --> 00:34:31.472
found.

00:34:31.534 --> 00:34:33.655
So this is basically an upgrade to that.

00:34:34.875 --> 00:34:36.835
So Google's had that feature for a while,

00:34:36.876 --> 00:34:39.257
but now it's actually getting an extra

00:34:39.498 --> 00:34:41.039
layer of functionality

00:34:42.139 --> 00:34:43.679
So with today's upgrade,

00:34:43.820 --> 00:34:45.639
Results About You gains the ability to

00:34:45.699 --> 00:34:48.099
find and remove pages that include ID

00:34:48.139 --> 00:34:49.981
numbers, like your passport,

00:34:50.420 --> 00:34:52.780
driver's license, and social security.

00:34:53.402 --> 00:34:55.181
And you can access the option to add

00:34:55.222 --> 00:34:57.563
these to Google's ongoing scans from the

00:34:57.603 --> 00:34:59.603
settings in Results About You.

00:34:59.983 --> 00:35:02.664
Just click the ID numbers section to

00:35:02.764 --> 00:35:03.704
enable detection.

00:35:04.561 --> 00:35:05.023
Naturally,

00:35:05.083 --> 00:35:07.085
Google has to know what it's looking for

00:35:07.105 --> 00:35:07.664
to remove it.

00:35:07.704 --> 00:35:10.268
So you need to provide at least part

00:35:10.307 --> 00:35:11.108
of those numbers.

00:35:11.509 --> 00:35:13.570
Google asks for the full driver's license

00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:13.952
number,

00:35:14.351 --> 00:35:16.273
which is fine as it's not as sensitive.

00:35:16.695 --> 00:35:18.115
And for your passport and SSN,

00:35:18.135 --> 00:35:20.237
you only need the last four digits,

00:35:20.659 --> 00:35:23.240
which is good enough for Google to find

00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.684
the full numbers on web pages.

00:35:27.744 --> 00:35:32.068
So this is kind of good to see

00:35:32.108 --> 00:35:34.449
that there's more safety tools being built

00:35:34.570 --> 00:35:37.052
into Google search because a lot of times,

00:35:37.132 --> 00:35:37.413
you know,

00:35:37.552 --> 00:35:39.934
things can get indexed that we don't want

00:35:39.974 --> 00:35:40.155
to.

00:35:40.235 --> 00:35:41.815
It's good to have control over having

00:35:41.835 --> 00:35:44.597
those listings removed because like I said

00:35:44.617 --> 00:35:44.918
before,

00:35:44.958 --> 00:35:46.338
it can be a safety issue for some

00:35:46.378 --> 00:35:46.719
people.

00:35:48.081 --> 00:35:50.061
But I do think in this case,

00:35:50.682 --> 00:35:52.704
you are trusting Google with that

00:35:52.764 --> 00:35:53.344
information.

00:35:53.744 --> 00:35:54.766
And I don't think there's,

00:35:56.802 --> 00:35:58.864
I think Google is not exactly the most

00:35:58.903 --> 00:36:01.164
trustworthy company and it will definitely

00:36:01.244 --> 00:36:03.626
depend on the level of safety that you

00:36:03.646 --> 00:36:04.365
care about, right?

00:36:04.425 --> 00:36:08.166
So if you're being targeted constantly and

00:36:08.186 --> 00:36:09.648
this is like quite a big threat to

00:36:09.688 --> 00:36:09.847
you,

00:36:10.347 --> 00:36:12.588
then maybe you would be more likely to

00:36:13.148 --> 00:36:14.268
enroll in this program.

00:36:15.349 --> 00:36:15.949
So for instance,

00:36:15.969 --> 00:36:17.309
you're like a public figure or something

00:36:17.389 --> 00:36:18.911
and you probably do want to get notified

00:36:18.971 --> 00:36:21.012
every time something pops up because you

00:36:21.032 --> 00:36:21.831
don't want that listed.

00:36:22.771 --> 00:36:24.132
That could definitely make sense.

00:36:24.873 --> 00:36:26.193
If you're just an everyday person,

00:36:26.373 --> 00:36:28.373
I think just periodically searching your

00:36:28.414 --> 00:36:30.693
name, your address, your phone number,

00:36:30.873 --> 00:36:32.894
that sort of thing is probably enough for

00:36:32.934 --> 00:36:33.474
most people.

00:36:33.554 --> 00:36:35.735
But I think this is definitely an

00:36:35.795 --> 00:36:37.016
interesting thing here.

00:36:38.715 --> 00:36:40.856
I guess having a look at the rest

00:36:40.896 --> 00:36:41.556
of this here,

00:36:42.617 --> 00:36:48.478
it looks like there's a tool that

00:36:48.697 --> 00:36:52.059
identifies explicit images as well as

00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:52.898
deepfakes.

00:36:53.847 --> 00:36:56.528
um so that is also another thing that

00:36:56.768 --> 00:37:02.110
you know a lot of people uh you

00:37:02.130 --> 00:37:04.070
know deal with um i think this is

00:37:04.170 --> 00:37:08.771
also kind of uh aimed towards people who

00:37:08.811 --> 00:37:10.751
work in the sex work industry you know

00:37:10.851 --> 00:37:13.431
they probably don't want information uh

00:37:13.851 --> 00:37:15.932
associated with their work associated with

00:37:15.952 --> 00:37:17.432
their real name that's definitely

00:37:17.753 --> 00:37:19.253
something that some people would prefer

00:37:19.393 --> 00:37:21.554
not to have um so that is

00:37:22.512 --> 00:37:25.175
something that can remove some of that

00:37:25.195 --> 00:37:28.438
content or, you know,

00:37:28.538 --> 00:37:29.858
at least blur the content.

00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:33.061
So that's another thing that they added as

00:37:33.101 --> 00:37:33.402
well.

00:37:34.282 --> 00:37:37.806
So it's definitely an interesting update.

00:37:38.007 --> 00:37:40.088
And I think in general, this is,

00:37:42.016 --> 00:37:42.657
a good thing,

00:37:43.217 --> 00:37:44.900
even if it's coming from like the worst

00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:45.661
company ever.

00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:47.702
I think this is going to protect a

00:37:47.742 --> 00:37:50.065
lot of people from a lot of issues

00:37:50.445 --> 00:37:53.168
that, you know, certain public figures,

00:37:53.347 --> 00:37:53.548
you know,

00:37:53.588 --> 00:37:55.670
people work in the sex work industry.

00:37:56.672 --> 00:37:58.132
I think that's definitely going to be

00:37:58.193 --> 00:38:00.235
beneficial as well as just public figures

00:38:00.275 --> 00:38:00.635
as well.

00:38:01.376 --> 00:38:02.036
So yeah,

00:38:02.197 --> 00:38:03.639
that's kind of my initial thoughts on this

00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:03.918
story.

00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:07.438
Yeah,

00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:10.239
I will say I don't know if it's

00:38:10.340 --> 00:38:11.780
just aimed at sex workers.

00:38:11.900 --> 00:38:14.460
I don't know how actually prevalent it is.

00:38:14.541 --> 00:38:16.382
I haven't seen any specific numbers,

00:38:16.981 --> 00:38:18.782
but I know for a for media has

00:38:18.822 --> 00:38:22.623
covered several stories about just normal

00:38:22.664 --> 00:38:25.085
women who have been targeted by deep fakes

00:38:25.144 --> 00:38:25.885
and they've covered.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.541
I've lost track of how many,

00:38:28.981 --> 00:38:30.201
and I say just normal women in the

00:38:30.221 --> 00:38:31.141
sense of like, they're not famous,

00:38:31.161 --> 00:38:32.141
they're not sex workers.

00:38:32.581 --> 00:38:34.503
They just have the quote unquote crime of

00:38:34.543 --> 00:38:35.463
being attractive.

00:38:35.663 --> 00:38:36.862
And, you know,

00:38:37.423 --> 00:38:39.543
they've been covering stories about tons

00:38:39.603 --> 00:38:39.684
of,

00:38:39.724 --> 00:38:41.525
they call them nudify apps where you can

00:38:42.085 --> 00:38:44.065
feed it a picture and the AI will

00:38:44.346 --> 00:38:46.407
generate what she might look like naked.

00:38:46.427 --> 00:38:50.847
Um, they've covered tons of like, uh,

00:38:50.967 --> 00:38:51.588
Oh man, I just,

00:38:51.827 --> 00:38:52.789
it just slipped out of my head.

00:38:52.989 --> 00:38:53.389
But, um,

00:38:54.815 --> 00:38:54.954
Yeah,

00:38:54.974 --> 00:38:56.335
they've covered tons of stories like that.

00:38:56.496 --> 00:38:59.378
And so unfortunately – and again,

00:38:59.418 --> 00:39:00.539
I haven't seen any statistics,

00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.181
and I'm not trying to sound like I'm

00:39:02.221 --> 00:39:02.800
downplaying it.

00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:05.583
I'm just trying to give an honest level

00:39:05.643 --> 00:39:05.862
read.

00:39:06.284 --> 00:39:07.525
I don't know if this is like a

00:39:07.644 --> 00:39:10.686
huge epidemic or if those are just a

00:39:10.746 --> 00:39:12.208
handful of stories that are really

00:39:12.268 --> 00:39:12.789
unfortunate.

00:39:13.268 --> 00:39:13.969
But either way,

00:39:15.010 --> 00:39:16.391
I think this is an actual problem that

00:39:16.411 --> 00:39:18.172
doesn't just affect sex workers.

00:39:18.233 --> 00:39:19.954
It could affect anybody, but –

00:39:20.643 --> 00:39:21.724
I think you still do make a really

00:39:21.744 --> 00:39:23.385
good point of, you know,

00:39:23.425 --> 00:39:24.945
that's trusting Google with a lot of data.

00:39:25.025 --> 00:39:25.846
And I do want to point out that

00:39:25.885 --> 00:39:27.447
Google has really good security.

00:39:27.827 --> 00:39:29.327
Google has never, to my knowledge,

00:39:29.387 --> 00:39:30.648
had a major data breach.

00:39:32.809 --> 00:39:36.951
But you're still trusting them not to use

00:39:36.971 --> 00:39:39.672
that data for advertising, for tracking,

00:39:39.751 --> 00:39:42.793
for all the other things that Google's

00:39:43.313 --> 00:39:45.255
multi-billion dollar empire is built on.

00:39:45.635 --> 00:39:47.835
So yeah, it's definitely a...

00:39:49.264 --> 00:39:51.806
It's definitely one of those cost benefit

00:39:51.887 --> 00:39:53.367
analysis things where you have to ask

00:39:53.387 --> 00:39:53.788
yourself,

00:39:55.009 --> 00:39:56.110
do I think this is enough of a

00:39:56.170 --> 00:39:58.052
problem that I should go ahead and sign

00:39:58.072 --> 00:39:58.592
up for this?

00:39:59.213 --> 00:40:00.153
Or like you said,

00:40:00.193 --> 00:40:01.576
would it be better if I handled this

00:40:01.615 --> 00:40:04.038
myself, if I did an occasional search,

00:40:05.179 --> 00:40:06.661
set myself reminders in my calendar or

00:40:06.721 --> 00:40:07.101
whatever?

00:40:07.221 --> 00:40:08.282
Because yeah,

00:40:08.302 --> 00:40:10.885
that is a lot of sensitive information to

00:40:10.905 --> 00:40:12.405
be handing over to Google for sure.

00:40:14.378 --> 00:40:14.518
No,

00:40:14.538 --> 00:40:15.958
that's a good point you brought up about

00:40:15.998 --> 00:40:18.300
some of those apps like the nudify apps.

00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:20.221
I think that's very much a problem,

00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:21.782
especially with minors.

00:40:22.181 --> 00:40:23.322
A lot of this stuff is, you know,

00:40:23.623 --> 00:40:24.764
happening in high schools.

00:40:25.384 --> 00:40:26.324
It's, you know,

00:40:26.344 --> 00:40:28.244
using these apps on people who are under

00:40:28.264 --> 00:40:29.246
the age of eighteen,

00:40:30.507 --> 00:40:32.527
publishing this information online to kind

00:40:32.547 --> 00:40:33.507
of embarrass people.

00:40:34.108 --> 00:40:34.349
It's...

00:40:35.509 --> 00:40:36.228
It's pretty bad.

00:40:36.510 --> 00:40:38.271
And I think that is another good use

00:40:38.291 --> 00:40:38.811
case here.

00:40:38.871 --> 00:40:39.992
I guess I kind of missed that when

00:40:40.032 --> 00:40:41.512
I was looking over it the first time.

00:40:42.373 --> 00:40:44.733
So I think that's also kind of another

00:40:45.175 --> 00:40:46.434
benefit of this as well.

00:40:47.675 --> 00:40:49.257
But I think, you know, it's...

00:40:51.418 --> 00:40:52.119
At the end of the day,

00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:54.239
this is not a tool for everybody.

00:40:54.900 --> 00:40:58.922
It's a tool for a very specific group

00:40:58.963 --> 00:40:59.422
of people.

00:41:00.023 --> 00:41:01.764
And I think if you...

00:41:03.074 --> 00:41:04.096
are in that group of people,

00:41:04.115 --> 00:41:05.277
then this would make sense.

00:41:05.297 --> 00:41:06.838
Um, but if it's, you know,

00:41:07.717 --> 00:41:08.719
I think a lot of people in our

00:41:08.759 --> 00:41:11.380
community are just not going to trust any

00:41:12.762 --> 00:41:16.003
big tech company, but, uh,

00:41:16.983 --> 00:41:18.405
and especially now, because, you know,

00:41:18.425 --> 00:41:20.206
we've seen a lot of this, uh,

00:41:20.226 --> 00:41:20.786
for instance,

00:41:22.835 --> 00:41:24.317
might talk about this next week,

00:41:24.376 --> 00:41:26.416
but Google handing over, you know,

00:41:26.838 --> 00:41:28.978
data to law enforcement without, you know,

00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:30.039
proper oversight,

00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.559
just handing it over and giving them all

00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:35.581
this information doesn't seem like a

00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.902
particularly good idea in that case.

00:41:38.521 --> 00:41:44.105
So it's kind of hard to, you know,

00:41:44.144 --> 00:41:44.885
justify

00:41:46.530 --> 00:41:48.231
pushing this unless you're in a very

00:41:48.271 --> 00:41:49.431
specific situation.

00:41:49.451 --> 00:41:51.231
Um, I think like Nate said,

00:41:51.692 --> 00:41:53.693
just doing a Google search of your

00:41:53.713 --> 00:41:55.032
information every now and then is

00:41:55.072 --> 00:41:57.853
definitely gonna be a better way to,

00:41:59.735 --> 00:42:01.815
you know, protect your information.

00:42:01.916 --> 00:42:04.476
But I think this is also a tool

00:42:04.516 --> 00:42:06.757
that is applicable for some people.

00:42:07.117 --> 00:42:07.436
Um,

00:42:07.456 --> 00:42:09.157
so I think it's important that we covered

00:42:09.197 --> 00:42:09.297
it.

00:42:09.318 --> 00:42:10.398
Um,

00:42:10.418 --> 00:42:12.259
but I guess moving on to our next

00:42:12.298 --> 00:42:14.179
story here also from Google,

00:42:15.925 --> 00:42:20.927
Nate, what are we talking about next?

00:42:21.027 --> 00:42:21.447
All right.

00:42:21.568 --> 00:42:24.570
Our next story is about how Google

00:42:26.190 --> 00:42:29.072
recovered deleted footage from a doorbell

00:42:29.112 --> 00:42:31.652
camera, which raises a lot of questions.

00:42:31.713 --> 00:42:34.114
So for anyone who doesn't really follow

00:42:34.153 --> 00:42:35.213
the news super closely,

00:42:35.793 --> 00:42:39.396
there is a woman named Nancy Guthrie.

00:42:40.335 --> 00:42:41.396
I don't know if I'm pronouncing that name

00:42:41.436 --> 00:42:41.556
right.

00:42:41.577 --> 00:42:42.777
I've only read it in articles.

00:42:42.817 --> 00:42:43.938
I haven't seen any videos.

00:42:45.817 --> 00:42:48.518
And she is a mother of three,

00:42:48.739 --> 00:42:52.463
one of whom is a journalist for –

00:42:50.521 --> 00:42:51.581
I believe it's NBC.

00:42:52.481 --> 00:42:54.623
And she was reported missing,

00:42:55.244 --> 00:42:56.646
she being Nancy, not the journalist.

00:42:57.085 --> 00:42:58.786
She was reported missing on February

00:42:58.867 --> 00:42:59.248
first,

00:42:59.867 --> 00:43:01.769
and her family called in a welfare check.

00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:03.331
She's from Arizona if I remember

00:43:03.351 --> 00:43:03.710
correctly.

00:43:04.351 --> 00:43:07.914
And the police showed up and said that

00:43:07.934 --> 00:43:09.235
they had reason to believe that she was

00:43:09.275 --> 00:43:09.576
taken.

00:43:09.695 --> 00:43:11.257
She didn't just wander off or anything.

00:43:13.378 --> 00:43:13.878
And –

00:43:14.952 --> 00:43:16.733
Initially, the police said – okay,

00:43:16.773 --> 00:43:18.253
so a real quick piece of context here.

00:43:19.514 --> 00:43:20.635
Google Nest cameras,

00:43:20.974 --> 00:43:22.436
which are kind of like Google's competitor

00:43:22.456 --> 00:43:22.996
to Ring,

00:43:23.076 --> 00:43:24.317
which we will also talk about here in

00:43:24.336 --> 00:43:24.697
a little bit.

00:43:26.217 --> 00:43:28.398
Google's Nest cameras, by default,

00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.219
if you just buy the camera itself and

00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:31.139
you don't buy the service,

00:43:31.500 --> 00:43:32.400
according to this article,

00:43:32.780 --> 00:43:34.641
they save three hours of quote-unquote

00:43:34.802 --> 00:43:37.402
event history, which for the record,

00:43:37.443 --> 00:43:38.543
this is coming from Ars Technica,

00:43:38.623 --> 00:43:40.425
not like Google's actual documentation,

00:43:40.445 --> 00:43:45.726
so I apologize if –

00:43:41.664 --> 00:43:42.164
This is wrong,

00:43:42.204 --> 00:43:43.385
but this is what Ars Technica says.

00:43:44.286 --> 00:43:45.987
Events are anything that, like,

00:43:46.027 --> 00:43:46.907
triggers the doorbell.

00:43:46.947 --> 00:43:48.668
So it wouldn't be three continuous hours

00:43:48.708 --> 00:43:49.128
of history.

00:43:49.568 --> 00:43:50.849
It would be any time in the last

00:43:50.869 --> 00:43:52.610
three hours that, say, you know,

00:43:52.630 --> 00:43:53.771
somebody dropped something off at your

00:43:53.811 --> 00:43:54.791
door, delivery was made,

00:43:54.871 --> 00:43:56.193
somebody knocked on your door, whatever.

00:43:57.612 --> 00:43:58.713
If you pay ten dollars a month,

00:43:58.733 --> 00:44:00.014
you get thirty days of events.

00:44:00.375 --> 00:44:02.275
Twenty dollars gets sixty days of events

00:44:02.356 --> 00:44:04.117
plus ten days of full video.

00:44:05.556 --> 00:44:06.177
Which, I gotta be honest,

00:44:06.197 --> 00:44:06.818
is a pretty good deal.

00:44:07.478 --> 00:44:08.298
But, anyways.

00:44:09.418 --> 00:44:10.480
So they, uh...

00:44:11.842 --> 00:44:13.903
The reason this matters is because Nancy

00:44:13.943 --> 00:44:17.083
Guthrie had a ring doorbell, or excuse me,

00:44:17.403 --> 00:44:18.043
a Nest doorbell.

00:44:18.824 --> 00:44:22.246
And initially investigators, to be fair,

00:44:22.365 --> 00:44:22.925
not Google,

00:44:23.005 --> 00:44:25.646
but investigators said there's no footage

00:44:25.686 --> 00:44:27.686
because she wasn't paying for the service.

00:44:28.847 --> 00:44:30.067
And then suddenly, what is this,

00:44:30.106 --> 00:44:30.628
the thirteenth?

00:44:30.708 --> 00:44:32.347
Three days ago on February tenth,

00:44:33.478 --> 00:44:33.898
Suddenly,

00:44:33.998 --> 00:44:35.320
the police came forward and said,

00:44:35.460 --> 00:44:36.840
actually, here's some footage.

00:44:37.681 --> 00:44:38.701
Does anybody know this man?

00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.202
And again, I've only seen screenshots,

00:44:42.422 --> 00:44:44.523
even though it's here in the footage.

00:44:44.603 --> 00:44:46.164
I was very busy all day.

00:44:46.224 --> 00:44:46.943
I couldn't watch videos.

00:44:47.804 --> 00:44:49.105
But excuse me.

00:44:49.844 --> 00:44:51.204
They say the first video shows the person

00:44:51.224 --> 00:44:52.286
approaching the door and noticing the

00:44:52.306 --> 00:44:52.965
doorbell camera.

00:44:52.985 --> 00:44:54.326
They place their hand over the lens and

00:44:54.346 --> 00:44:55.867
appear to pull on the mounting bracket.

00:44:56.313 --> 00:44:57.596
but the cameras have a small security

00:44:57.615 --> 00:44:58.818
screw that makes it difficult to remove

00:44:58.838 --> 00:44:59.878
them without causing damage.

00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:01.541
I don't know why he cared about causing

00:45:01.581 --> 00:45:02.983
damage if he's kidnapping somebody,

00:45:03.043 --> 00:45:03.503
but whatever.

00:45:03.985 --> 00:45:04.686
In the second video,

00:45:04.726 --> 00:45:06.068
the individual seems to try to drape a

00:45:06.128 --> 00:45:07.650
plant over the camera to block its view.

00:45:07.710 --> 00:45:08.570
Both videos are short,

00:45:08.590 --> 00:45:09.813
which is what you would expect from an

00:45:09.873 --> 00:45:11.534
event as identified by the Google Home

00:45:11.574 --> 00:45:11.856
system.

00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.480
So they say the video was apparently,

00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:15.960
quote unquote,

00:45:16.021 --> 00:45:18.342
recovered from residual data located in

00:45:18.422 --> 00:45:19.501
backend systems.

00:45:20.163 --> 00:45:21.903
And Ars Technica says it's unclear how

00:45:21.943 --> 00:45:23.423
long such data is retained or how easy

00:45:23.443 --> 00:45:24.644
it is for Google to access it.

00:45:24.945 --> 00:45:26.425
Some reports claim that it took several

00:45:26.485 --> 00:45:28.306
days for Google to recover the data.

00:45:28.907 --> 00:45:33.608
So this story raises a lot of questions.

00:45:35.208 --> 00:45:36.349
I think there's a lot of ways you

00:45:36.369 --> 00:45:36.909
could look at it.

00:45:36.929 --> 00:45:38.990
And I'm not necessarily saying one is

00:45:39.050 --> 00:45:40.992
right or wrong, because honestly,

00:45:41.072 --> 00:45:42.273
I don't really know how I feel about

00:45:42.313 --> 00:45:42.494
this.

00:45:43.114 --> 00:45:44.556
I think on the one hand, there is,

00:45:46.418 --> 00:45:47.798
I think most of our more technical viewers

00:45:47.838 --> 00:45:49.039
know this, but in case you guys didn't,

00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.583
when you click delete on something on a

00:45:52.623 --> 00:45:56.327
computer, it typically doesn't delete it.

00:45:56.987 --> 00:45:58.568
It basically tells the computer,

00:45:59.268 --> 00:46:01.331
You can write over this if you want.

00:46:01.452 --> 00:46:03.755
It's kind of like if you guys have

00:46:03.775 --> 00:46:05.117
ever worked at a job where...

00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:07.561
It's like a dumpster.

00:46:07.601 --> 00:46:08.342
Let's put it that way.

00:46:08.382 --> 00:46:09.644
It's like if you're driving through a

00:46:09.664 --> 00:46:11.367
neighborhood and somebody has put a couch

00:46:11.407 --> 00:46:12.489
or a table on the corner...

00:46:13.791 --> 00:46:15.052
It's not necessarily gone yet,

00:46:15.072 --> 00:46:15.632
but they don't want it.

00:46:15.672 --> 00:46:16.634
You can take it if you want.

00:46:17.414 --> 00:46:18.054
It's kind of like that.

00:46:18.235 --> 00:46:20.715
And so just because something is deleted

00:46:20.755 --> 00:46:22.317
in a system doesn't necessarily mean it's

00:46:22.396 --> 00:46:22.916
fully gone.

00:46:22.976 --> 00:46:24.617
Now, the longer it's been,

00:46:24.958 --> 00:46:26.298
the more likely that it has been written

00:46:26.358 --> 00:46:27.960
over by something else and it is actually

00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:28.320
gone.

00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:29.240
But usually,

00:46:29.300 --> 00:46:30.300
especially if it's right away,

00:46:30.802 --> 00:46:33.043
usually you can pull back most or all

00:46:33.083 --> 00:46:33.483
of the data.

00:46:34.224 --> 00:46:37.846
So it's really hard to tell exactly what's

00:46:37.865 --> 00:46:38.505
going on here.

00:46:38.525 --> 00:46:42.347
And I do want to acknowledge we could

00:46:42.387 --> 00:46:43.168
do the conspiracies...

00:46:44.010 --> 00:46:44.630
I don't mean to be rude,

00:46:44.650 --> 00:46:45.811
but we could do the conspiracy theory

00:46:45.831 --> 00:46:46.871
thing where they say, no,

00:46:46.891 --> 00:46:47.853
they had it the whole time.

00:46:47.873 --> 00:46:49.273
They're just pretending this is a story.

00:46:49.594 --> 00:46:50.153
You might be right.

00:46:50.414 --> 00:46:51.213
I'm going to acknowledge that.

00:46:51.233 --> 00:46:51.815
You might be right.

00:46:51.914 --> 00:46:52.414
We don't know.

00:46:53.034 --> 00:46:55.036
It's also equally possible that they just

00:46:55.056 --> 00:46:57.476
have literal warehouses around the world

00:46:57.536 --> 00:46:58.338
full of servers,

00:46:58.858 --> 00:47:00.978
and they got lucky and dug through and

00:47:01.018 --> 00:47:02.199
found some stuff.

00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:04.480
I don't know.

00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:05.581
I really don't know.

00:47:05.722 --> 00:47:05.922
I mean,

00:47:05.942 --> 00:47:07.364
I don't know how many nests there are.

00:47:07.385 --> 00:47:09.027
I don't know how much server storage there

00:47:09.106 --> 00:47:09.407
is.

00:47:09.648 --> 00:47:10.809
It seems like a bit of a stretch

00:47:10.829 --> 00:47:12.934
to me that within a week it wouldn't

00:47:13.014 --> 00:47:14.717
all be overwritten if she wasn't paying

00:47:16.197 --> 00:47:16.697
It is weird.

00:47:16.818 --> 00:47:17.498
I will admit that.

00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:19.360
But I guess I'm just saying this isn't

00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:20.521
necessarily a smoking gun,

00:47:20.541 --> 00:47:21.422
but it certainly is weird.

00:47:21.461 --> 00:47:24.063
And I think one of the reasons we're

00:47:24.083 --> 00:47:25.103
talking about this is because this is a

00:47:25.123 --> 00:47:26.905
big story that everybody's been talking

00:47:26.925 --> 00:47:27.105
about.

00:47:27.565 --> 00:47:27.865
But also,

00:47:27.885 --> 00:47:29.447
I think this is a good reminder that

00:47:30.427 --> 00:47:31.288
everything I just said,

00:47:31.608 --> 00:47:32.349
when you hit delete,

00:47:32.369 --> 00:47:33.849
something isn't necessarily gone right

00:47:33.869 --> 00:47:34.170
away.

00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:35.510
And that's why it's really important to

00:47:35.530 --> 00:47:37.932
think about things like these days,

00:47:37.952 --> 00:47:39.574
everybody's mostly switched over to solid

00:47:39.614 --> 00:47:39.954
states.

00:47:40.193 --> 00:47:42.275
And solid states, it used to be that

00:47:43.126 --> 00:47:44.067
When you would delete something,

00:47:44.126 --> 00:47:46.347
the common advice was to use a file

00:47:46.367 --> 00:47:47.469
shredder, which would basically,

00:47:48.429 --> 00:47:49.110
like I talked about,

00:47:49.250 --> 00:47:50.289
it would mark it for deletion,

00:47:50.429 --> 00:47:51.650
and then it would overwrite it a couple

00:47:51.690 --> 00:47:53.172
times to make sure it was really gone.

00:47:53.831 --> 00:47:54.932
But with solid states,

00:47:55.793 --> 00:47:56.494
I guess you could do that,

00:47:56.514 --> 00:47:57.755
but you shouldn't because it really

00:47:58.474 --> 00:47:59.856
reduces the lifespan of the device.

00:48:00.456 --> 00:48:00.856
And instead,

00:48:00.896 --> 00:48:01.996
we rely on things like full disk

00:48:02.056 --> 00:48:02.478
encryption.

00:48:02.797 --> 00:48:06.000
If somebody stormed in right now and took

00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:07.320
my computer and it died,

00:48:07.860 --> 00:48:09.021
they wouldn't be able to get back into

00:48:09.061 --> 00:48:10.543
it without decrypting it.

00:48:12.019 --> 00:48:13.961
And that functionally serves the same

00:48:14.001 --> 00:48:14.362
purpose.

00:48:15.543 --> 00:48:19.005
But I guess to kind of bring it

00:48:19.025 --> 00:48:21.367
back around, when you upload anything,

00:48:21.688 --> 00:48:23.289
anything that's cloud connected like this,

00:48:23.789 --> 00:48:24.690
even if they say like,

00:48:24.710 --> 00:48:25.751
we're not gonna keep this stuff,

00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:29.262
let's just go ahead and assume Google was

00:48:29.302 --> 00:48:29.922
being honest here.

00:48:30.202 --> 00:48:30.902
It was still there.

00:48:31.483 --> 00:48:32.583
You know, they can't,

00:48:32.884 --> 00:48:34.023
them saying we're not going to keep it

00:48:34.063 --> 00:48:35.164
is not the same as them saying we're

00:48:35.184 --> 00:48:35.885
going to delete it.

00:48:36.164 --> 00:48:37.005
It's them saying like,

00:48:37.065 --> 00:48:37.766
if it gets overwritten,

00:48:37.806 --> 00:48:38.425
it gets overwritten.

00:48:38.445 --> 00:48:40.086
We don't care that you're not paying for

00:48:40.106 --> 00:48:41.867
that service and it could still be there.

00:48:42.007 --> 00:48:43.148
And in this case,

00:48:43.208 --> 00:48:44.469
hopefully it will help find this woman

00:48:44.509 --> 00:48:45.429
safe and sound, you know,

00:48:45.530 --> 00:48:47.590
but there's a lot of other cases where

00:48:47.630 --> 00:48:48.831
it could be a bad thing and it

00:48:48.851 --> 00:48:50.472
could recover something that you wanted to

00:48:50.512 --> 00:48:51.112
stay gone.

00:48:51.532 --> 00:48:52.634
So yeah,

00:48:52.653 --> 00:48:54.173
it's just really important to keep that

00:48:54.273 --> 00:48:55.375
kind of stuff in mind, I think.

00:48:56.824 --> 00:48:58.487
I think those were my thoughts.

00:48:58.527 --> 00:49:00.411
Did you have any other takeaways from the

00:49:00.431 --> 00:49:00.952
story, Jordan?

00:49:01.833 --> 00:49:02.094
Yeah,

00:49:02.195 --> 00:49:05.960
so I think this is sort of a

00:49:06.021 --> 00:49:08.445
confirmation of something that we've been

00:49:10.478 --> 00:49:13.579
assuming but not knowing for quite a while

00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.920
google doesn't really delete things they

00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:21.000
have data for a long time they don't

00:49:21.300 --> 00:49:24.061
actually abide by a lot of the policies

00:49:24.101 --> 00:49:26.021
they have i mean i just think that

00:49:26.382 --> 00:49:28.101
when it's a company as large as google

00:49:28.141 --> 00:49:30.342
just think about the absolute amount of

00:49:30.402 --> 00:49:31.302
data that they have

00:49:32.382 --> 00:49:33.963
I think it's almost impossible to,

00:49:34.063 --> 00:49:35.463
you know,

00:49:35.483 --> 00:49:36.784
they probably got data centers in

00:49:36.903 --> 00:49:39.143
basically every city in a lot of these

00:49:39.184 --> 00:49:39.923
major countries.

00:49:40.103 --> 00:49:42.704
And it's this whole interconnected network

00:49:42.905 --> 00:49:44.684
where all this information is just like

00:49:45.565 --> 00:49:46.726
zooming around the internet.

00:49:47.206 --> 00:49:49.126
I think it's really hard for them to

00:49:49.786 --> 00:49:51.025
delete a lot of things.

00:49:51.146 --> 00:49:52.567
And I think the same thing goes for

00:49:52.586 --> 00:49:53.106
this, right?

00:49:53.126 --> 00:49:53.827
You know,

00:49:53.867 --> 00:49:56.646
maybe that footage was saved and it was

00:49:57.228 --> 00:49:59.507
saved and backed up across, you know,

00:49:59.688 --> 00:50:01.088
six continents or something,

00:50:01.210 --> 00:50:02.791
because obviously Google doesn't want to

00:50:02.831 --> 00:50:05.474
lose that data because people rely on the

00:50:05.514 --> 00:50:06.514
security camera footage.

00:50:07.396 --> 00:50:09.137
So I think in this case,

00:50:09.217 --> 00:50:11.579
it could have been that the storage of

00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:14.583
this video clip could have been in a

00:50:14.663 --> 00:50:16.344
backup or, you know,

00:50:16.483 --> 00:50:17.585
across a lot of

00:50:18.902 --> 00:50:19.664
data centers.

00:50:19.864 --> 00:50:21.864
And I think all it took really was

00:50:22.284 --> 00:50:23.465
for a high profile case.

00:50:23.485 --> 00:50:24.686
They're obviously not going to do this

00:50:24.726 --> 00:50:26.786
for, you know, your average person.

00:50:26.887 --> 00:50:29.007
But I think because this was such a

00:50:29.068 --> 00:50:30.048
high profile case,

00:50:30.548 --> 00:50:33.030
I'm not entirely sure who this person is.

00:50:33.190 --> 00:50:35.052
So maybe they're not that high profile,

00:50:35.152 --> 00:50:36.271
but they seem to be.

00:50:37.253 --> 00:50:37.413
And

00:50:38.702 --> 00:50:41.204
I think it just shows that Google does

00:50:41.244 --> 00:50:43.846
have the ability to bring back data that

00:50:43.945 --> 00:50:45.867
is allegedly deleted.

00:50:46.407 --> 00:50:50.909
So it brings up more questions about data

00:50:51.148 --> 00:50:51.730
retention,

00:50:51.769 --> 00:50:54.150
like how long is Google really keeping

00:50:54.190 --> 00:50:54.690
things for?

00:50:55.030 --> 00:50:56.672
When they say that your information is

00:50:56.711 --> 00:51:00.454
deleted, how true are they being?

00:51:01.034 --> 00:51:02.954
And I would argue probably not very true.

00:51:03.195 --> 00:51:04.775
It's probably stuck in backups.

00:51:04.856 --> 00:51:05.817
It's probably stuck in

00:51:06.664 --> 00:51:07.443
you know,

00:51:07.463 --> 00:51:09.945
whole systems like training LLMs,

00:51:10.085 --> 00:51:12.407
all sorts of things that, you know,

00:51:12.567 --> 00:51:13.987
we don't have control over.

00:51:14.027 --> 00:51:16.028
So I'm not really surprised that they were

00:51:16.088 --> 00:51:17.309
able to recover this footage.

00:51:17.349 --> 00:51:19.351
I think this is kind of pretty standard

00:51:19.391 --> 00:51:19.831
stuff.

00:51:20.130 --> 00:51:22.833
Um, I'm not sure why people were, uh,

00:51:23.273 --> 00:51:24.293
I guess so outraged.

00:51:24.373 --> 00:51:25.693
I think this is pretty standard for a

00:51:25.753 --> 00:51:26.954
company to have, you know,

00:51:26.974 --> 00:51:29.436
backups lasting quite a long time.

00:51:30.077 --> 00:51:31.137
Um, and you know,

00:51:31.177 --> 00:51:32.818
they're not going to immediately delete

00:51:33.398 --> 00:51:33.958
the footage.

00:51:34.278 --> 00:51:34.378
Um,

00:51:36.010 --> 00:51:38.092
So I think it is possible for them

00:51:38.152 --> 00:51:41.036
to dig up footage in very extreme

00:51:41.255 --> 00:51:42.356
circumstances like this.

00:51:42.416 --> 00:51:43.338
So I don't know.

00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:49.304
I am not particularly surprised by this

00:51:49.525 --> 00:51:54.791
story in particular.

00:51:54.851 --> 00:51:55.572
Yeah, that's fair.

00:51:55.692 --> 00:51:56.032
I don't know.

00:51:56.193 --> 00:51:56.293
I'm...

00:51:58.293 --> 00:51:58.554
Yeah.

00:51:59.114 --> 00:51:59.335
I don't,

00:51:59.394 --> 00:52:00.635
I don't know if I'm surprised or not.

00:52:00.735 --> 00:52:00.956
I think,

00:52:01.096 --> 00:52:02.478
I think when I first heard this story,

00:52:02.597 --> 00:52:04.099
I was kind of like, Oh, that's crazy.

00:52:04.159 --> 00:52:05.400
But I wasn't just like, what?

00:52:05.539 --> 00:52:06.961
Oh my God, that's crazy.

00:52:07.001 --> 00:52:07.922
I was just like, Whoa.

00:52:08.083 --> 00:52:13.768
So yeah, it's yeah.

00:52:13.807 --> 00:52:14.648
I don't think I have much to add.

00:52:14.708 --> 00:52:15.289
I just, I,

00:52:15.528 --> 00:52:18.070
I really agree with your point about once

00:52:18.110 --> 00:52:19.052
they have that data, you,

00:52:19.092 --> 00:52:20.974
you lose control over it functionally one

00:52:20.994 --> 00:52:21.954
way or another, you know,

00:52:22.034 --> 00:52:22.215
like

00:52:23.777 --> 00:52:25.418
for better or worse again even if like

00:52:25.478 --> 00:52:27.079
let's assume just for the sake of argument

00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:29.360
let's assume total good faith on google's

00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:30.942
end what if they do have a data

00:52:30.961 --> 00:52:32.983
breach someday they finally get got and

00:52:33.123 --> 00:52:34.884
you know who knows what'll get leaked

00:52:35.043 --> 00:52:37.545
that's yeah they could use it for ai

00:52:37.565 --> 00:52:39.646
they could use it for anything so it's

00:52:39.666 --> 00:52:40.827
just really important to keep that in mind

00:52:40.867 --> 00:52:43.588
with anything you do online i think yeah

00:52:43.768 --> 00:52:45.550
and i think this brings forward actually

00:52:45.630 --> 00:52:47.030
another thing that we should probably talk

00:52:47.050 --> 00:52:47.992
about is

00:52:48.971 --> 00:52:51.733
The reason why Google had this footage in

00:52:51.753 --> 00:52:54.795
the first place was because the camera was

00:52:54.894 --> 00:52:56.115
not end to end encrypted.

00:52:56.235 --> 00:52:58.097
So I think this is kind of an

00:52:58.137 --> 00:52:59.157
important note.

00:52:59.257 --> 00:53:02.619
Google is kind of known for being really

00:53:03.751 --> 00:53:06.114
not very like not applying a lot of

00:53:06.134 --> 00:53:07.976
these uh practices where you know

00:53:08.016 --> 00:53:10.297
companies like ring i mean ring has other

00:53:10.338 --> 00:53:12.059
problems we're gonna we're gonna talk

00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:14.822
about that later um but uh companies like

00:53:14.882 --> 00:53:17.485
ring uh apple you know they allow you

00:53:17.505 --> 00:53:19.547
to at least enable that encryption so you

00:53:19.567 --> 00:53:22.228
know if it was incriminating information

00:53:22.349 --> 00:53:24.630
or just private you know you don't really

00:53:24.670 --> 00:53:26.032
want recordings of yourself

00:53:26.753 --> 00:53:29.155
doing who knows what outside your house or

00:53:29.215 --> 00:53:30.655
inside your house, you know,

00:53:30.755 --> 00:53:32.936
available to a massive corporation,

00:53:32.976 --> 00:53:33.896
which could get breached.

00:53:34.378 --> 00:53:36.278
So I think it's important to,

00:53:36.778 --> 00:53:38.000
if you do have, you know,

00:53:39.061 --> 00:53:39.800
a camera system,

00:53:40.181 --> 00:53:42.061
maybe think about something local,

00:53:42.101 --> 00:53:44.043
maybe think about something that employs

00:53:44.204 --> 00:53:45.063
end-to-end encryption.

00:53:45.644 --> 00:53:47.326
I know a pretty easy option for a

00:53:47.346 --> 00:53:49.806
lot of people who have Apple devices is

00:53:49.927 --> 00:53:52.989
Apple's HomeKit Secure Video, which is,

00:53:54.231 --> 00:53:55.713
has end-to-end encryption.

00:53:56.472 --> 00:53:59.255
And there's other local alternatives as

00:53:59.295 --> 00:54:01.036
well, setting up like an NPR.

00:54:01.356 --> 00:54:02.476
A lot of people in the comments of

00:54:02.516 --> 00:54:03.998
this article were talking about,

00:54:04.318 --> 00:54:07.440
this is why I only use local surveillance

00:54:07.460 --> 00:54:07.900
systems.

00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.202
But I think there's also issues with that

00:54:10.262 --> 00:54:10.702
as well,

00:54:10.762 --> 00:54:11.163
because

00:54:12.003 --> 00:54:15.204
you know a lot of people don't own

00:54:15.623 --> 00:54:17.405
the house or apartment that they live in

00:54:17.485 --> 00:54:19.704
they can't just go around drilling holes

00:54:19.724 --> 00:54:21.505
and things and like putting cables

00:54:21.545 --> 00:54:24.527
everywhere that's just unrealistic um so

00:54:24.726 --> 00:54:28.688
you know i think it's not always going

00:54:28.708 --> 00:54:31.329
to be a perfect solution there's no

00:54:31.389 --> 00:54:33.269
perfect solution to everybody so that's

00:54:33.289 --> 00:54:35.190
why i think you should think about this

00:54:35.230 --> 00:54:37.751
but i think you know you're putting google

00:54:39.572 --> 00:54:41.152
you're trusting Google with like the

00:54:41.193 --> 00:54:42.333
privacy of your home.

00:54:42.793 --> 00:54:44.655
I think we need to question why you're

00:54:44.695 --> 00:54:45.155
doing that.

00:54:45.195 --> 00:54:47.157
You should probably consider moving to

00:54:47.197 --> 00:54:49.679
something that offers a high level of

00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:50.259
security,

00:54:50.699 --> 00:54:54.222
such as Apple HomeKit secure video or some

00:54:54.302 --> 00:54:55.543
other local alternative.

00:54:55.563 --> 00:54:58.985
I know maybe Jonah would have something to

00:54:59.085 --> 00:54:59.445
add on this.

00:54:59.505 --> 00:55:01.027
I feel like he's kind of into that

00:55:01.067 --> 00:55:01.507
whole like

00:55:01.974 --> 00:55:03.755
home assistant, self-hosted stuff,

00:55:03.875 --> 00:55:06.476
but unfortunately he's not here this week,

00:55:06.715 --> 00:55:07.335
but that's okay.

00:55:08.536 --> 00:55:09.717
I guess I would throw it over to

00:55:09.757 --> 00:55:10.137
you, Nate.

00:55:10.177 --> 00:55:11.697
Do you have any experience with these sort

00:55:11.737 --> 00:55:15.518
of like security systems?

00:55:15.878 --> 00:55:18.239
I don't because I am in that boat

00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:19.480
you talked about where I'm one of those

00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:20.521
people who rents.

00:55:20.721 --> 00:55:22.161
And so I can't really,

00:55:22.541 --> 00:55:24.121
and thankfully some places I've lived

00:55:24.242 --> 00:55:26.503
actually do have policies against outdoor

00:55:26.523 --> 00:55:27.382
cameras like Ring,

00:55:28.202 --> 00:55:29.284
which I think is super awesome.

00:55:29.403 --> 00:55:29.583
But

00:55:30.259 --> 00:55:31.000
Not all of them do.

00:55:31.300 --> 00:55:34.842
And yeah, it's actually my last apartment.

00:55:34.902 --> 00:55:37.164
I remember they had like a ring or

00:55:37.184 --> 00:55:38.646
a nest up in the corner and it

00:55:38.666 --> 00:55:40.947
was facing the only in and out for

00:55:40.967 --> 00:55:42.429
the building and it pissed me off so

00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:42.690
much.

00:55:43.489 --> 00:55:45.751
But yeah, it's really...

00:55:48.213 --> 00:55:49.434
I wish I had more... Hold on,

00:55:49.454 --> 00:55:50.016
let me check.

00:55:50.215 --> 00:55:54.519
I swear I saw somebody post talking about

00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:55.280
one the other day.

00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:56.882
I'm checking a group chat I'm in, but...

00:55:57.590 --> 00:55:57.831
All right.

00:55:58.050 --> 00:55:58.811
While you're doing that,

00:55:59.152 --> 00:56:01.414
I think it's also important to note that

00:56:01.835 --> 00:56:04.277
when you're installing all these security

00:56:04.297 --> 00:56:05.619
systems, like Nate was saying,

00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:08.460
you can invade other people's privacy too.

00:56:08.702 --> 00:56:11.184
It's important that I think some people

00:56:11.204 --> 00:56:12.344
get caught up on

00:56:13.346 --> 00:56:14.746
I'm just protecting my privacy.

00:56:14.806 --> 00:56:16.327
You know, I don't care about other people.

00:56:16.447 --> 00:56:16.806
It's like,

00:56:17.007 --> 00:56:19.288
no other people recording other people

00:56:19.327 --> 00:56:21.048
without their consent is wrong.

00:56:21.168 --> 00:56:22.188
It's, it's not right.

00:56:22.228 --> 00:56:23.389
It's invading their privacy.

00:56:23.949 --> 00:56:24.590
So, you know,

00:56:24.849 --> 00:56:26.610
especially with these camera systems,

00:56:26.670 --> 00:56:29.231
I think it's important to remember that if

00:56:29.271 --> 00:56:30.791
you install a doorbell like this,

00:56:30.831 --> 00:56:33.032
that's pointing out towards the street and

00:56:33.072 --> 00:56:35.172
recording everybody as they enter their

00:56:35.213 --> 00:56:36.813
houses and walk past,

00:56:36.893 --> 00:56:38.213
it's kind of creepy and

00:56:38.494 --> 00:56:40.536
And it's definitely something we're going

00:56:40.556 --> 00:56:41.416
to talk about later.

00:56:41.876 --> 00:56:44.257
So definitely stay tuned for that.

00:56:44.538 --> 00:56:44.938
But Nate,

00:56:44.958 --> 00:56:46.739
did you end up finding that post you're

00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:47.179
looking for?

00:56:48.280 --> 00:56:48.621
I did.

00:56:48.981 --> 00:56:50.001
I'm not going to say who it came

00:56:50.021 --> 00:56:51.563
from because I did not ask permission.

00:56:51.603 --> 00:56:52.563
This is off the cuff,

00:56:52.623 --> 00:56:54.304
but it is somebody who is very

00:56:54.324 --> 00:56:55.284
knowledgeable and knows what they're

00:56:55.304 --> 00:56:55.846
talking about.

00:56:56.746 --> 00:56:58.106
They said that if you need,

00:56:58.126 --> 00:56:59.268
what was it?

00:56:59.407 --> 00:57:01.228
Wise, W-Y-Z-E.

00:57:01.728 --> 00:57:02.710
They say they recommend it.

00:57:03.550 --> 00:57:05.331
He did specify for mainstream people.

00:57:05.891 --> 00:57:07.353
um so this is not like the most

00:57:07.393 --> 00:57:09.614
private solution but he said that it does

00:57:09.655 --> 00:57:12.217
accept sd cards and you do need to

00:57:12.257 --> 00:57:13.697
download their app to like set it up

00:57:13.759 --> 00:57:15.199
initially but once you set it up you

00:57:15.239 --> 00:57:16.681
can tell it like not to send anything

00:57:16.721 --> 00:57:18.262
to the cloud and only record an sd

00:57:18.282 --> 00:57:20.684
card um so make sure you mount it

00:57:20.724 --> 00:57:21.945
somewhere where they can't just like tear

00:57:21.965 --> 00:57:23.485
it off the wall and take it and

00:57:23.525 --> 00:57:25.967
then he said that in the past he's

00:57:26.027 --> 00:57:29.010
recommended zosi for um

00:57:30.353 --> 00:57:30.452
Oh,

00:57:30.492 --> 00:57:31.733
he said that's a bigger setup with

00:57:31.773 --> 00:57:35.036
multiple cameras that sends wirelessly to

00:57:35.056 --> 00:57:36.956
a local DVR or hard drive,

00:57:37.137 --> 00:57:38.637
like you see in convenience stores or gas

00:57:38.657 --> 00:57:39.077
stations.

00:57:39.137 --> 00:57:41.940
So that might not be realistic for some

00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:43.740
people, but yeah.

00:57:44.722 --> 00:57:45.802
One more thing that I remembered while you

00:57:45.822 --> 00:57:46.222
were talking,

00:57:46.362 --> 00:57:49.264
you mentioned that ring does have an end

00:57:49.284 --> 00:57:49.985
to end encryption.

00:57:50.105 --> 00:57:52.547
I think you have to enable it.

00:57:52.626 --> 00:57:53.927
I don't think it's enabled by default,

00:57:53.947 --> 00:57:54.768
but they do offer it.

00:57:55.148 --> 00:57:56.568
You mentioned Apple usually does better.

00:57:56.708 --> 00:57:58.329
I actually learned recently that Google,

00:57:59.271 --> 00:57:59.411
um,

00:58:00.150 --> 00:58:02.572
Google's in browser password manager is

00:58:02.592 --> 00:58:04.393
like the only one that's not encrypted by

00:58:04.434 --> 00:58:05.594
default, Google Chrome.

00:58:06.135 --> 00:58:08.737
So like Safari is, Firefox is,

00:58:09.336 --> 00:58:10.338
I should hope Brave is,

00:58:10.938 --> 00:58:13.239
but like Google Chrome is the only browser

00:58:13.260 --> 00:58:14.900
where like you can save passwords in the

00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:15.322
browser,

00:58:15.782 --> 00:58:17.362
but you still have to take that extra

00:58:17.402 --> 00:58:19.445
step to go in and encrypt the password

00:58:19.485 --> 00:58:19.784
manager

00:58:20.264 --> 00:58:22.306
which is completely insane and just backs

00:58:22.346 --> 00:58:23.686
up what you were saying about the fact

00:58:23.706 --> 00:58:26.226
that like Google is a little bit sketchy,

00:58:26.507 --> 00:58:27.806
which is so weird because just a minute

00:58:27.827 --> 00:58:28.146
ago I was like,

00:58:28.166 --> 00:58:30.327
they have some of the best security except

00:58:30.367 --> 00:58:31.027
when they don't.

00:58:31.668 --> 00:58:32.907
It's just so insane.

00:58:33.047 --> 00:58:35.509
So yeah, be mindful of that.

00:58:35.849 --> 00:58:37.489
Google is not always as trustworthy as

00:58:37.768 --> 00:58:39.289
they should be for a company of their

00:58:39.329 --> 00:58:39.610
size.

00:58:40.757 --> 00:58:41.057
Yeah,

00:58:41.257 --> 00:58:44.021
I think it's definitely an unfortunate

00:58:44.061 --> 00:58:45.905
thing, but I think they do have,

00:58:46.565 --> 00:58:47.748
just like I was saying before,

00:58:47.788 --> 00:58:50.192
their infrastructure is quite modern.

00:58:50.251 --> 00:58:52.936
It's quite a large space.

00:58:53.951 --> 00:58:55.972
operation so obviously they they do have

00:58:56.032 --> 00:58:58.715
some security policies to protect things

00:58:59.034 --> 00:59:01.396
um so it's kind of stupid that they

00:59:01.416 --> 00:59:03.478
don't have internet encryption on

00:59:03.518 --> 00:59:05.659
passwords by default that's like a thing

00:59:05.679 --> 00:59:07.981
you have to enable like they can access

00:59:08.061 --> 00:59:09.764
all your browsing data like your your

00:59:09.804 --> 00:59:11.885
bookmarks and all that you have to enable

00:59:11.925 --> 00:59:13.507
encryption on that um

00:59:14.621 --> 00:59:16.003
But with that being said,

00:59:16.143 --> 00:59:18.706
let's dive into the site updates this

00:59:18.746 --> 00:59:19.067
week.

00:59:19.286 --> 00:59:20.889
And before we dive into a story about

00:59:20.969 --> 00:59:25.554
how Reddit is being monitored by the DHS,

00:59:25.793 --> 00:59:27.735
let's give some quick updates about what

00:59:27.755 --> 00:59:29.858
we've been working on at Privacy Guides

00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:31.981
this week.

00:59:32.021 --> 00:59:33.862
So throwing it over to you, Nate,

00:59:34.163 --> 00:59:36.385
what have you been working on this week?

00:59:38.282 --> 00:59:38.802
Yeah,

00:59:39.824 --> 00:59:41.123
it's been a lot of behind the scenes

00:59:41.164 --> 00:59:41.603
stuff.

00:59:42.704 --> 00:59:45.105
I'm working on a script for,

00:59:46.485 --> 00:59:47.365
oh my gosh, I should know this,

00:59:47.606 --> 00:59:48.226
private email.

00:59:49.626 --> 00:59:51.407
And yeah,

00:59:51.507 --> 00:59:52.887
so that's what's next in the pipeline for

00:59:52.927 --> 00:59:53.027
me.

00:59:53.068 --> 00:59:54.288
That's been my main focus.

00:59:54.827 --> 00:59:58.809
And then we have private browsing and the

00:59:58.889 --> 01:00:00.769
intermediate smartphone security are both

01:00:01.010 --> 01:00:01.871
ready for members.

01:00:01.931 --> 01:00:03.391
We're just coordinating with

01:00:03.590 --> 01:00:04.291
infrastructure.

01:00:04.771 --> 01:00:05.931
I know we keep saying this every week,

01:00:05.952 --> 01:00:06.092
but

01:00:06.601 --> 01:00:08.342
We're really having some serious issues

01:00:08.422 --> 01:00:09.282
with PeerTube.

01:00:09.422 --> 01:00:12.585
And I think Jonah is doing his best

01:00:12.646 --> 01:00:13.746
to take care of that.

01:00:15.128 --> 01:00:15.708
But yeah,

01:00:15.789 --> 01:00:16.889
as soon as we get that worked out,

01:00:16.909 --> 01:00:20.512
we're going to push those out to members

01:00:20.693 --> 01:00:23.596
and then shortly thereafter to the public.

01:00:24.195 --> 01:00:25.496
So that is what I have been up

01:00:25.516 --> 01:00:25.737
to.

01:00:26.077 --> 01:00:27.978
And I believe you have been up to

01:00:27.998 --> 01:00:28.579
some stuff as well.

01:00:29.601 --> 01:00:29.963
Yes,

01:00:30.023 --> 01:00:32.447
so this week I've been working on a

01:00:32.467 --> 01:00:34.449
video that Nate put together.

01:00:34.489 --> 01:00:37.014
It was a video about private...

01:00:38.467 --> 01:00:40.389
messaging so that's another one to look

01:00:40.449 --> 01:00:41.809
out for we're kind of covering off these

01:00:41.849 --> 01:00:43.831
base topics just to have you know

01:00:44.072 --> 01:00:47.052
resources for everyone to access and i was

01:00:47.132 --> 01:00:49.014
also working on doing some social posts

01:00:49.034 --> 01:00:50.835
this week because i feel like we've been

01:00:50.876 --> 01:00:53.376
kind of uh slouching a bit on that

01:00:53.436 --> 01:00:54.777
and we haven't been doing it as much

01:00:54.797 --> 01:00:56.139
as we should and there's a whole bunch

01:00:56.179 --> 01:00:57.940
of important issues going on that we need

01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:00.380
to talk about so um i decided to

01:01:00.420 --> 01:01:02.523
put together something uh about discord

01:01:03.182 --> 01:01:03.643
And, you know,

01:01:03.963 --> 01:01:05.563
alternatives to Discord and such.

01:01:05.925 --> 01:01:06.985
So if you want to check that out,

01:01:07.005 --> 01:01:08.885
that's available on most of our social

01:01:09.447 --> 01:01:12.548
feeds that are text-based as well as

01:01:12.588 --> 01:01:13.309
photo-based.

01:01:13.768 --> 01:01:15.130
Some of them might need to wait a

01:01:15.150 --> 01:01:15.990
little bit to go out.

01:01:16.331 --> 01:01:17.992
But, yeah,

01:01:18.032 --> 01:01:19.432
Nate's showing it here on Mastodon.

01:01:19.532 --> 01:01:21.074
So that's kind of what I've been working

01:01:21.094 --> 01:01:21.153
on.

01:01:21.173 --> 01:01:23.414
I also put together another post for

01:01:23.434 --> 01:01:24.695
Valentine's Day and...

01:01:26.485 --> 01:01:27.545
It was kind of a funny one.

01:01:27.887 --> 01:01:29.047
Look out for it tomorrow.

01:01:30.050 --> 01:01:33.333
Hopefully that does well and people think

01:01:33.373 --> 01:01:34.655
it's a good idea.

01:01:35.617 --> 01:01:38.800
But I just want to remind people that

01:01:40.219 --> 01:01:42.460
All of this is made possible by our

01:01:42.500 --> 01:01:44.300
supporters and you can sign up for a

01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:47.262
membership or donate at privacyguides.org

01:01:48.001 --> 01:01:49.902
or you can also pick up some cool

01:01:50.143 --> 01:01:54.065
swag at shop.privacyguides.org and you can

01:01:54.085 --> 01:01:54.864
see in the background,

01:01:55.164 --> 01:01:57.005
Nate's got a poster there and a bottle

01:01:57.106 --> 01:01:59.447
and we've got all these products you can

01:01:59.467 --> 01:02:01.387
get if you wanna support us and also

01:02:01.427 --> 01:02:02.467
get something in return.

01:02:02.987 --> 01:02:04.588
And now finally,

01:02:04.789 --> 01:02:09.550
let's talk about Ring's new search party

01:02:09.590 --> 01:02:09.951
tool.

01:02:13.596 --> 01:02:17.458
dystopian ring search party feature sparks

01:02:18.318 --> 01:02:21.541
public backlash so this is an article here

01:02:21.601 --> 01:02:25.543
from nine to five mac and i should

01:02:25.623 --> 01:02:28.643
uh preface this by saying there was a

01:02:29.485 --> 01:02:31.706
an ad at the super bowl which i

01:02:31.726 --> 01:02:33.706
think is like an american football event

01:02:33.766 --> 01:02:36.509
for anyone not from america um

01:02:37.347 --> 01:02:41.068
And basically it's the ad focused around,

01:02:42.367 --> 01:02:42.688
you know,

01:02:43.507 --> 01:02:46.268
utilizing everybody's ring doorbells and

01:02:46.329 --> 01:02:50.188
ring cameras to basically find and help

01:02:50.750 --> 01:02:51.710
lost dogs.

01:02:51.989 --> 01:02:53.570
And it was basically a thirty second ad

01:02:54.250 --> 01:02:55.811
promoting this new feature.

01:02:56.210 --> 01:02:58.170
And of course,

01:02:58.431 --> 01:03:00.851
this is kind of a massive concern from

01:03:00.891 --> 01:03:02.992
a privacy perspective, obviously, because,

01:03:03.072 --> 01:03:03.331
you know,

01:03:05.286 --> 01:03:09.971
a company that's basically has all these

01:03:10.010 --> 01:03:12.112
cameras everywhere and they're using it

01:03:12.152 --> 01:03:13.755
to, you know,

01:03:13.835 --> 01:03:16.177
identify something and track that thing.

01:03:16.958 --> 01:03:19.119
That could be used for some really

01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:21.041
dystopian stuff, obviously.

01:03:21.682 --> 01:03:23.405
So that is kind of concerning.

01:03:24.485 --> 01:03:24.646
So,

01:03:24.826 --> 01:03:27.327
here's just kind of explaining how this

01:03:27.387 --> 01:03:27.849
works.

01:03:28.248 --> 01:03:31.751
The search party feature for dogs works by

01:03:31.771 --> 01:03:33.673
allowing owners of lost dogs to send a

01:03:33.733 --> 01:03:36.356
photo and description to other nearby ring

01:03:36.396 --> 01:03:38.898
doorbell users when the camera thinks it

01:03:38.938 --> 01:03:41.019
has spotted a dog matching the

01:03:41.059 --> 01:03:41.621
description.

01:03:41.860 --> 01:03:43.121
It alerts the homeowner.

01:03:43.722 --> 01:03:45.103
If they confirm that it looks like the

01:03:45.143 --> 01:03:45.684
right dog,

01:03:45.844 --> 01:03:47.206
it puts them in touch with the owner

01:03:47.246 --> 01:03:47.746
of the pet.

01:03:48.467 --> 01:03:50.728
The company has now rolled out the feature

01:03:51.048 --> 01:03:54.030
to non-Ring camera owners via the Ring

01:03:54.170 --> 01:03:56.132
app, going all in on promoting it.

01:03:57.014 --> 01:03:59.896
including with a whole Super Bowl ad,

01:03:59.996 --> 01:04:01.398
which as far as I understand,

01:04:01.938 --> 01:04:03.139
Super Bowl is kind of like a really

01:04:03.179 --> 01:04:04.400
high profile event that would have

01:04:04.420 --> 01:04:06.702
probably costed like tens of millions of

01:04:06.742 --> 01:04:07.123
dollars.

01:04:07.182 --> 01:04:09.885
So they're definitely kind of going all in

01:04:09.905 --> 01:04:10.286
on this.

01:04:11.005 --> 01:04:13.128
And this is also another concern because

01:04:13.628 --> 01:04:15.429
in the US there's been a lot of

01:04:16.110 --> 01:04:17.932
nationwide protests against ICE

01:04:17.992 --> 01:04:18.713
operations,

01:04:18.893 --> 01:04:19.273
which is

01:04:21.340 --> 01:04:23.943
quite concerning and there's also people

01:04:24.003 --> 01:04:27.168
who are kind of concerned that this could

01:04:27.208 --> 01:04:31.592
be used to coordinate ICE operations to

01:04:31.632 --> 01:04:34.577
deport and arrest people so

01:04:36.929 --> 01:04:38.250
Just quoting from, uh,

01:04:38.530 --> 01:04:40.230
four or four media here at Sunday's

01:04:40.329 --> 01:04:42.490
Superbowl ring advertised search party,

01:04:42.670 --> 01:04:45.211
acute horrifyingly dystopian feature

01:04:45.733 --> 01:04:47.952
nominally designed to turn all of the ring

01:04:47.972 --> 01:04:50.614
cameras into a neighborhood dragnet that

01:04:50.715 --> 01:04:52.835
uses AI to look for a lost dog.

01:04:53.396 --> 01:04:55.335
It does not take an imagination of any

01:04:55.396 --> 01:04:58.458
sort to envision this being tweet to work

01:04:58.577 --> 01:05:00.418
against suspected criminals,

01:05:00.938 --> 01:05:03.880
undocumented migrants, or other, uh,

01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:07.342
or others deemed suspicious by people in

01:05:07.362 --> 01:05:07.922
the neighborhood.

01:05:08.222 --> 01:05:10.103
Many of these use cases are how ring

01:05:10.143 --> 01:05:12.945
has been used by people on its dystopian

01:05:13.045 --> 01:05:16.108
neighbors app for years.

01:05:16.128 --> 01:05:17.789
The neighbors app itself.

01:05:17.909 --> 01:05:18.889
I haven't heard of this before.

01:05:18.949 --> 01:05:20.472
So just quoting what the article says,

01:05:20.972 --> 01:05:22.893
the neighbors app quickly got a reputation

01:05:22.932 --> 01:05:25.815
for racist sharing reports of supposedly

01:05:25.855 --> 01:05:28.416
suspicious looking people whose skin color

01:05:28.496 --> 01:05:30.338
was the only thing they had in common.

01:05:31.632 --> 01:05:33.813
so yeah this is kind of concerning uh

01:05:33.914 --> 01:05:35.494
it goes through you know a lot of

01:05:35.534 --> 01:05:39.394
the other uh social media backlash and

01:05:39.434 --> 01:05:42.936
such um in this article and i think

01:05:42.956 --> 01:05:45.657
this is kind of highlighting uh an issue

01:05:45.677 --> 01:05:48.137
that i talked about before where you know

01:05:48.157 --> 01:05:50.057
your privacy is important but also the

01:05:50.097 --> 01:05:52.797
privacy of other people you know creating

01:05:52.838 --> 01:05:54.838
a dragnet surveillance network is

01:05:56.123 --> 01:05:59.005
Just to find dogs seems like a pretty

01:05:59.706 --> 01:06:00.927
unequal exchange,

01:06:01.608 --> 01:06:04.150
especially because this technology can be

01:06:04.369 --> 01:06:06.771
used for kind of nefarious purposes,

01:06:07.172 --> 01:06:10.014
like by ICE to, you know,

01:06:10.094 --> 01:06:11.954
round up people, follow protesters,

01:06:12.094 --> 01:06:13.175
all sorts of stuff like that.

01:06:14.416 --> 01:06:16.478
I think it kind of goes against a

01:06:16.518 --> 01:06:18.139
lot of things that...

01:06:19.264 --> 01:06:20.905
you would expect in public.

01:06:20.945 --> 01:06:22.925
You would expect in public that your

01:06:22.965 --> 01:06:24.465
location isn't going to be tracked.

01:06:25.646 --> 01:06:26.726
And in this case,

01:06:26.907 --> 01:06:30.088
it's basically using cameras to use facial

01:06:30.128 --> 01:06:32.309
recognition to identify dogs.

01:06:32.369 --> 01:06:34.050
But you can see how that could be

01:06:34.269 --> 01:06:37.572
used against people, right?

01:06:38.072 --> 01:06:39.773
I think this is sort of a thing

01:06:39.813 --> 01:06:42.153
that we've talked about a little bit in

01:06:42.213 --> 01:06:42.873
other countries.

01:06:43.034 --> 01:06:44.494
They have a lot of these facial

01:06:44.614 --> 01:06:45.195
recognition

01:06:45.715 --> 01:06:48.496
networks that are run by governments,

01:06:48.976 --> 01:06:51.438
that identify people and track their

01:06:51.458 --> 01:06:52.739
movements across the country.

01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.202
And I think this is basically just doing

01:06:56.222 --> 01:06:58.684
the same thing, but with a, oh,

01:06:58.764 --> 01:06:59.405
it's cute.

01:06:59.625 --> 01:07:02.206
Oh, it's a dog searching tool.

01:07:02.327 --> 01:07:03.608
It's the same thing.

01:07:04.449 --> 01:07:06.110
It's going to be a slope where they

01:07:06.150 --> 01:07:08.871
do this feature now,

01:07:08.992 --> 01:07:10.432
and then in a year's time,

01:07:10.472 --> 01:07:12.914
they're using it to track protesters.

01:07:12.934 --> 01:07:14.056
They're using it to track

01:07:14.775 --> 01:07:15.235
immigrants.

01:07:15.255 --> 01:07:17.117
They're using it to track, I don't know,

01:07:17.717 --> 01:07:20.619
the next choice of who they're wanting to

01:07:20.659 --> 01:07:21.021
follow.

01:07:21.960 --> 01:07:22.601
So yeah,

01:07:22.661 --> 01:07:25.103
I think this is extremely dystopian.

01:07:25.503 --> 01:07:29.507
And I think most people need to kind

01:07:29.527 --> 01:07:31.347
of look past the advertising and marketing

01:07:31.528 --> 01:07:33.949
and look at what the real issue with

01:07:33.969 --> 01:07:34.951
this technology is,

01:07:35.331 --> 01:07:38.554
because it is quite concerning.

01:07:42.525 --> 01:07:42.646
Yeah,

01:07:42.686 --> 01:07:44.827
just to touch on a few things you

01:07:44.867 --> 01:07:45.047
said.

01:07:45.086 --> 01:07:46.847
Yes, the Super Bowl is,

01:07:48.148 --> 01:07:49.530
you would think a religion here in the

01:07:49.630 --> 01:07:49.909
US.

01:07:49.929 --> 01:07:51.170
People lose their minds for it.

01:07:51.570 --> 01:07:53.431
I say that as somebody who,

01:07:53.592 --> 01:07:55.012
if sports vanished tomorrow,

01:07:55.052 --> 01:07:56.373
the only reason I would notice is because

01:07:56.393 --> 01:07:57.713
everybody else around me would be having a

01:07:57.753 --> 01:07:58.114
meltdown.

01:07:59.594 --> 01:08:01.295
But putting aside my hipsterism, yeah,

01:08:01.315 --> 01:08:02.076
it's a huge deal.

01:08:02.155 --> 01:08:03.356
And so for them to run this ad

01:08:03.396 --> 01:08:04.858
was probably, I don't know,

01:08:04.878 --> 01:08:05.757
about tens of millions.

01:08:05.818 --> 01:08:07.159
I mean, maybe tens of millions,

01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:09.260
but definitely millions for sure.

01:08:09.300 --> 01:08:11.081
To run that thirty second ad is pretty

01:08:11.101 --> 01:08:11.300
wild.

01:08:12.298 --> 01:08:15.181
Um, I think I'm really happy.

01:08:15.222 --> 01:08:15.402
What I,

01:08:15.601 --> 01:08:17.243
what I picked up on in this story

01:08:17.323 --> 01:08:20.506
is this has been like a nationwide outcry.

01:08:20.627 --> 01:08:21.908
Like the, the article says like,

01:08:21.967 --> 01:08:23.590
in addition to the four Oh four article

01:08:23.609 --> 01:08:25.572
that you wrote or you, you read about,

01:08:26.332 --> 01:08:26.492
um,

01:08:27.323 --> 01:08:30.244
A Senator Ed Markey tweeted and said,

01:08:30.305 --> 01:08:31.265
what this ad doesn't show,

01:08:31.365 --> 01:08:32.886
Ring also rolled out facial recognition

01:08:32.926 --> 01:08:33.426
for humans.

01:08:33.787 --> 01:08:34.987
I wrote to them months ago about this.

01:08:35.067 --> 01:08:35.587
Their answer,

01:08:35.667 --> 01:08:36.847
they won't ask for your consent.

01:08:37.127 --> 01:08:38.248
This definitely isn't about dogs.

01:08:38.288 --> 01:08:39.248
It's about mass surveillance.

01:08:39.868 --> 01:08:41.569
And then they said a quick search on

01:08:41.750 --> 01:08:43.171
X shows this to be the prevailing view.

01:08:43.310 --> 01:08:46.752
So I know that's like a very specific

01:08:46.792 --> 01:08:47.511
slice of the internet,

01:08:47.572 --> 01:08:50.573
but I'm very happy to see because so

01:08:50.594 --> 01:08:52.975
many of the times I'm a little bit,

01:08:54.194 --> 01:08:55.175
I'm a little bit annoyed and I'm going

01:08:55.194 --> 01:08:56.376
to try not to be like,

01:08:57.875 --> 01:08:58.395
I don't know.

01:08:58.414 --> 01:08:59.676
It's not old man yells at clouds,

01:08:59.716 --> 01:09:00.916
but something hipster, I guess.

01:09:00.996 --> 01:09:01.315
I don't know.

01:09:02.055 --> 01:09:03.817
I'm a little bit annoyed that I feel

01:09:03.856 --> 01:09:06.677
like we as privacy advocates are

01:09:06.717 --> 01:09:08.658
constantly trying to raise an alarm about

01:09:08.698 --> 01:09:09.818
like, hey, guys, this is bad.

01:09:10.578 --> 01:09:11.319
And people are like,

01:09:11.378 --> 01:09:12.158
you need to calm down.

01:09:12.179 --> 01:09:12.899
You're overreacting.

01:09:12.939 --> 01:09:13.720
This isn't a big deal.

01:09:14.380 --> 01:09:15.479
And then like three years later,

01:09:15.539 --> 01:09:17.461
something happens and everybody is like,

01:09:17.780 --> 01:09:18.501
oh, this is bad.

01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:18.940
And it's like, yeah,

01:09:18.961 --> 01:09:20.240
I've been saying that for years and you

01:09:20.280 --> 01:09:21.542
told me I was overreacting.

01:09:22.702 --> 01:09:24.305
And, you know, um, we didn't include it,

01:09:24.345 --> 01:09:24.565
but I've,

01:09:24.666 --> 01:09:26.309
I've been sharing around tonight, uh,

01:09:26.328 --> 01:09:28.712
a story from meta where they're

01:09:28.753 --> 01:09:30.036
reintroducing their, um,

01:09:30.417 --> 01:09:31.538
their Ray-Ban glasses,

01:09:32.020 --> 01:09:33.603
but they're including facial recognition.

01:09:34.283 --> 01:09:35.524
And there's a quote here.

01:09:35.564 --> 01:09:36.545
I can dig it up real quick.

01:09:37.985 --> 01:09:39.006
Not to go too far off topic,

01:09:39.046 --> 01:09:42.067
but this is from Meta's Reality Labs.

01:09:42.106 --> 01:09:43.648
This is from the actual company that made

01:09:43.688 --> 01:09:44.087
the glasses.

01:09:44.127 --> 01:09:44.408
They said,

01:09:44.729 --> 01:09:46.349
we will launch during a dynamic political

01:09:46.389 --> 01:09:48.529
environment where many civil society

01:09:48.550 --> 01:09:50.011
groups that we would expect to attack us

01:09:50.251 --> 01:09:51.591
would have their resources focused on

01:09:51.671 --> 01:09:52.351
other concerns.

01:09:53.091 --> 01:09:55.172
And that is like the most cartoon villain

01:09:55.233 --> 01:09:56.413
thing I've ever heard.

01:09:57.412 --> 01:09:59.074
It's like I almost think it sounds like

01:09:59.095 --> 01:10:00.577
it should be in the onion for them

01:10:00.617 --> 01:10:02.158
to just say the quiet part out loud

01:10:02.177 --> 01:10:02.878
where it's like, oh,

01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:04.761
this is the perfect time to do something

01:10:04.820 --> 01:10:07.604
downright evil because all of our enemies

01:10:07.644 --> 01:10:08.886
are busy with other things.

01:10:09.065 --> 01:10:10.747
And it's just it's you know,

01:10:10.828 --> 01:10:12.229
and I bring that up because like I've

01:10:12.248 --> 01:10:14.150
been sharing it around and everybody I'm

01:10:14.171 --> 01:10:15.051
showing it to is just like,

01:10:15.091 --> 01:10:15.792
that's ridiculous.

01:10:15.853 --> 01:10:16.474
That's crazy.

01:10:16.634 --> 01:10:17.255
I can't believe that.

01:10:17.274 --> 01:10:17.975
And it's like, yeah, they're.

01:10:19.537 --> 01:10:19.877
Like,

01:10:19.957 --> 01:10:22.018
I've been trying to tell you guys that.

01:10:22.137 --> 01:10:23.057
And I'm not trying to do the, like,

01:10:23.097 --> 01:10:23.819
I told you so thing.

01:10:23.838 --> 01:10:25.538
It's just like, I wish people had cared,

01:10:26.260 --> 01:10:26.539
you know,

01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:28.980
five years ago or ten years ago with

01:10:29.001 --> 01:10:30.900
Cambridge Analytica when all this stuff

01:10:30.921 --> 01:10:31.702
started coming out.

01:10:32.442 --> 01:10:34.382
And, like, you know, I don't know.

01:10:34.422 --> 01:10:35.722
Maybe we couldn't have stopped it because,

01:10:35.743 --> 01:10:37.323
like, I don't want to sound defeatist,

01:10:37.384 --> 01:10:37.724
but, you know,

01:10:38.203 --> 01:10:40.064
Shoshana Zuboff in Age of Surveillance

01:10:40.104 --> 01:10:41.444
Capitalism, she talks about how, like,

01:10:42.065 --> 01:10:43.445
this is their playbook is they'll do

01:10:43.506 --> 01:10:43.826
something.

01:10:43.905 --> 01:10:44.726
And when people get mad,

01:10:44.766 --> 01:10:46.426
they pull back a little bit.

01:10:46.766 --> 01:10:48.127
But then they kind of just, like –

01:10:48.228 --> 01:10:49.908
take a different direction to get around

01:10:49.948 --> 01:10:50.548
the obstacle.

01:10:50.569 --> 01:10:51.868
And they still end up doing it anyways,

01:10:51.908 --> 01:10:53.090
which is why we can't really trust a

01:10:53.130 --> 01:10:54.010
lot of big tech companies.

01:10:54.050 --> 01:10:55.570
But I don't know.

01:10:55.610 --> 01:10:56.051
It's just, it's,

01:10:56.150 --> 01:10:59.292
it's frustrating to see things that you're

01:10:59.311 --> 01:11:00.332
trying to raise the alarm about.

01:11:00.372 --> 01:11:01.912
And sometimes it feels like people don't

01:11:01.993 --> 01:11:02.932
take it seriously.

01:11:03.474 --> 01:11:04.234
And I'm glad.

01:11:04.872 --> 01:11:05.974
where I'm going with this is I'm really

01:11:05.993 --> 01:11:07.756
glad to see that people are taking this

01:11:07.775 --> 01:11:08.195
seriously,

01:11:08.237 --> 01:11:09.997
that everybody is sitting up and it's not

01:11:10.037 --> 01:11:10.979
just us for a change.

01:11:11.019 --> 01:11:12.860
That's like, you know, this could be bad.

01:11:12.940 --> 01:11:14.342
It's like, everybody is just kind of like,

01:11:14.483 --> 01:11:15.764
okay, nope, this is too far.

01:11:15.823 --> 01:11:16.585
You crossed a line.

01:11:16.664 --> 01:11:17.326
This is creepy.

01:11:17.506 --> 01:11:18.086
I don't want it.

01:11:18.106 --> 01:11:21.489
And I guess I'm just going to say,

01:11:21.550 --> 01:11:22.190
I hope that,

01:11:23.447 --> 01:11:24.967
I hope that we're finally entering an age

01:11:24.988 --> 01:11:25.887
where things will be different.

01:11:25.908 --> 01:11:26.288
Because again,

01:11:26.328 --> 01:11:29.170
I mentioned that typically tech will pull

01:11:29.189 --> 01:11:31.970
back just enough until people calm down

01:11:32.051 --> 01:11:33.292
and then they'll go do it anyways.

01:11:33.912 --> 01:11:36.974
And I really hope that we're entering a

01:11:37.033 --> 01:11:38.534
world where the internet has been around

01:11:38.574 --> 01:11:39.855
long enough and the tech companies have

01:11:39.876 --> 01:11:42.436
been around long enough that we're kind of

01:11:42.476 --> 01:11:44.637
wising up to it and we're not going

01:11:44.658 --> 01:11:45.438
to let them do that.

01:11:45.819 --> 01:11:46.118
I hope.

01:11:46.298 --> 01:11:46.698
I don't know.

01:11:47.198 --> 01:11:47.619
We'll see.

01:11:48.159 --> 01:11:49.399
But I really hope that's where we're

01:11:49.420 --> 01:11:49.621
headed.

01:11:50.041 --> 01:11:50.180
So.

01:11:51.364 --> 01:11:52.025
Yeah,

01:11:52.126 --> 01:11:53.346
those were my thoughts on that story.

01:11:53.367 --> 01:11:55.748
Yeah,

01:11:56.269 --> 01:11:58.650
I think I largely agree with what you're

01:11:58.671 --> 01:11:59.030
saying.

01:11:59.131 --> 01:12:01.512
I think it's also I'm seeing some comments

01:12:01.552 --> 01:12:02.514
here in the chat.

01:12:02.594 --> 01:12:04.216
So just kind of going over some of

01:12:04.256 --> 01:12:04.395
these.

01:12:04.876 --> 01:12:07.457
Someone said it's fail X on tour.

01:12:08.019 --> 01:12:10.020
This is a bit of a political question,

01:12:10.140 --> 01:12:11.822
but it's exploitative nature.

01:12:12.202 --> 01:12:13.963
Do you think that other camera systems

01:12:14.003 --> 01:12:15.904
could adopt rings infrastructure in the

01:12:15.925 --> 01:12:16.265
future?

01:12:17.148 --> 01:12:22.048
and i think it definitely could be uh

01:12:22.149 --> 01:12:25.689
i think if it's successful and you know

01:12:25.770 --> 01:12:28.371
i i unfortunately a lot of times these

01:12:29.230 --> 01:12:31.412
awful things end up being pushed through

01:12:31.431 --> 01:12:33.492
like saying it's like a boil you're

01:12:33.532 --> 01:12:36.313
boiling the frog people just like you're

01:12:36.332 --> 01:12:38.172
just slowly boiling them people just give

01:12:38.252 --> 01:12:40.713
up with uh with trying to push back

01:12:40.753 --> 01:12:42.173
against things because they're just

01:12:42.213 --> 01:12:44.095
constantly trying to push things through

01:12:44.875 --> 01:12:46.796
So I think if it's if it's a

01:12:46.956 --> 01:12:50.056
success for Ring, I think, you know,

01:12:50.096 --> 01:12:51.858
this feature could be rolled out to other

01:12:51.917 --> 01:12:52.837
security cameras.

01:12:52.978 --> 01:12:55.979
But I still think, you know,

01:12:56.079 --> 01:12:56.460
it would be

01:12:57.917 --> 01:12:58.097
I mean,

01:12:58.177 --> 01:12:59.538
I'm not really sure what the percentage

01:12:59.578 --> 01:12:59.800
is,

01:12:59.920 --> 01:13:02.801
but I bet that there is a very

01:13:02.862 --> 01:13:05.003
large percent of people,

01:13:05.524 --> 01:13:06.465
at least in America,

01:13:06.985 --> 01:13:08.947
I haven't seen too many ring doorbells and

01:13:08.966 --> 01:13:10.469
things in Australia.

01:13:10.788 --> 01:13:12.010
I think they're less popular,

01:13:12.029 --> 01:13:13.811
like Amazon in general is less popular.

01:13:14.712 --> 01:13:17.975
So I think in the US that there's

01:13:18.055 --> 01:13:18.716
just a...

01:13:20.423 --> 01:13:22.046
a lot of those cameras everywhere.

01:13:22.287 --> 01:13:25.730
So I think it is pretty powerful being

01:13:25.791 --> 01:13:27.613
able to have so many cameras everywhere

01:13:27.654 --> 01:13:29.416
and to always have the ability to, like,

01:13:29.456 --> 01:13:30.978
hook into them.

01:13:31.038 --> 01:13:33.761
So, you know, I think...

01:13:35.140 --> 01:13:37.301
If you have a Ring camera, I mean,

01:13:37.362 --> 01:13:38.523
the best time to get rid of it

01:13:38.542 --> 01:13:39.302
was yesterday.

01:13:39.764 --> 01:13:41.984
And the second best time is today.

01:13:42.345 --> 01:13:44.988
So try and work something out because I

01:13:45.028 --> 01:13:47.369
think it's not great for the privacy of

01:13:47.409 --> 01:13:47.949
other people.

01:13:48.090 --> 01:13:49.912
And it seems like this is just going

01:13:49.931 --> 01:13:50.652
to get pushed through.

01:13:50.671 --> 01:13:52.634
They've already dumped so much money into

01:13:52.673 --> 01:13:52.753
it.

01:13:52.814 --> 01:13:55.095
They're not going to just start changing

01:13:55.136 --> 01:13:56.796
direction on it.

01:13:56.997 --> 01:13:59.797
doing this facial recognition or dog

01:13:59.858 --> 01:14:00.559
recognition.

01:14:02.420 --> 01:14:05.440
But well, that's how they're marketing it.

01:14:05.480 --> 01:14:07.162
But we all know it's going to eventually

01:14:07.181 --> 01:14:08.561
get rolled out to humans.

01:14:12.083 --> 01:14:13.384
Do you see any other questions here you

01:14:13.404 --> 01:14:14.305
think we should touch on?

01:14:15.820 --> 01:14:16.902
I actually do want to touch on,

01:14:16.942 --> 01:14:18.061
because you said that,

01:14:18.141 --> 01:14:19.903
this next question from, or not question,

01:14:19.922 --> 01:14:20.863
but a statement from Anonymous.

01:14:21.043 --> 01:14:22.224
You said, basically,

01:14:22.283 --> 01:14:23.425
if the market dislikes this,

01:14:23.885 --> 01:14:25.926
no one will follow suit, which is true.

01:14:25.945 --> 01:14:28.646
I don't want to get into free market

01:14:28.667 --> 01:14:29.027
and all that,

01:14:29.067 --> 01:14:30.587
but I just want to point out,

01:14:30.648 --> 01:14:31.628
kind of related to what you said,

01:14:31.748 --> 01:14:34.689
I think so much, and it's,

01:14:37.992 --> 01:14:39.591
no single snowflake believes it is

01:14:39.631 --> 01:14:40.773
responsible for the avalanche.

01:14:41.353 --> 01:14:42.613
I don't know who said that, but like,

01:14:44.051 --> 01:14:45.734
It's so easy to look at these things.

01:14:45.774 --> 01:14:46.354
Like you were saying,

01:14:46.394 --> 01:14:48.355
like ring doorbells are so ubiquitous here

01:14:48.376 --> 01:14:50.396
in the US and so many people have

01:14:50.417 --> 01:14:52.418
them and they bring a benefit.

01:14:52.559 --> 01:14:53.198
I'm not going to lie.

01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:53.720
Like, yes,

01:14:53.819 --> 01:14:55.240
obviously they bring a benefit or else

01:14:55.261 --> 01:14:56.202
people wouldn't be buying them.

01:14:56.221 --> 01:14:56.801
And I get it.

01:14:57.422 --> 01:14:59.243
But it's so easy for people to sit

01:14:59.283 --> 01:15:00.845
here and think like, well,

01:15:00.865 --> 01:15:01.405
what can I do?

01:15:01.546 --> 01:15:01.765
You know,

01:15:01.826 --> 01:15:03.667
like I get something out of it.

01:15:03.747 --> 01:15:04.788
If I throw away my doorbell,

01:15:04.809 --> 01:15:05.109
like you said,

01:15:05.128 --> 01:15:06.210
they're just going to do it anyways.

01:15:06.250 --> 01:15:06.850
It doesn't matter.

01:15:07.190 --> 01:15:08.731
And it's like, yes, I hear you.

01:15:08.771 --> 01:15:10.292
And I know it sounds hard, but

01:15:10.412 --> 01:15:12.235
But if enough people do it,

01:15:12.936 --> 01:15:13.658
it makes a difference.

01:15:13.698 --> 01:15:15.180
Something like, what is it?

01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:15.359
Like,

01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.061
sixty percent of the people in the U.S.

01:15:17.363 --> 01:15:19.364
are vote that are eligible to vote.

01:15:19.404 --> 01:15:20.907
So almost half of the U.S.

01:15:20.926 --> 01:15:21.307
doesn't vote.

01:15:21.328 --> 01:15:22.408
And that's high turnout, by the way.

01:15:22.890 --> 01:15:23.310
Really bad.

01:15:23.831 --> 01:15:25.594
And so just think about if those other

01:15:25.613 --> 01:15:26.815
forty percent of people voted.

01:15:27.949 --> 01:15:29.470
What would – like maybe the political

01:15:29.490 --> 01:15:30.332
situation wouldn't change.

01:15:30.372 --> 01:15:30.931
Maybe it would.

01:15:31.131 --> 01:15:31.612
Who knows?

01:15:32.092 --> 01:15:33.212
But that's forty percent of the people

01:15:33.233 --> 01:15:34.634
that could potentially change the vote

01:15:34.975 --> 01:15:36.135
because every single one of them is like,

01:15:36.215 --> 01:15:37.055
oh, my vote doesn't matter.

01:15:37.475 --> 01:15:37.735
I'm sorry.

01:15:37.756 --> 01:15:38.716
I know I'm being a little political,

01:15:39.497 --> 01:15:40.217
kind of, sort of, not really.

01:15:40.637 --> 01:15:45.360
But my point being is like we're at

01:15:45.400 --> 01:15:47.563
a point – and I hate to say

01:15:47.603 --> 01:15:48.644
this because it sounds defeatist.

01:15:49.043 --> 01:15:50.085
We're at a point where the privacy

01:15:50.145 --> 01:15:51.765
situation in the world is so bad.

01:15:52.591 --> 01:15:55.311
that doing almost anything moves the

01:15:55.332 --> 01:15:55.613
needle.

01:15:56.052 --> 01:15:57.432
And I try to tell people that when

01:15:57.713 --> 01:16:00.135
I talk to like mainstream users and they

01:16:00.154 --> 01:16:00.795
just feel like, oh, well,

01:16:00.814 --> 01:16:01.756
my data's already out there.

01:16:01.796 --> 01:16:02.315
What does it matter?

01:16:02.355 --> 01:16:03.336
They already know everything about me.

01:16:03.355 --> 01:16:04.777
And it's like, yeah, that's the point.

01:16:05.096 --> 01:16:07.618
The bar is so freaking low that doing

01:16:07.958 --> 01:16:08.779
literally anything,

01:16:09.139 --> 01:16:10.939
switching to Brave or Firefox, shoot,

01:16:10.979 --> 01:16:12.640
putting uBlock Origin in Chrome,

01:16:12.761 --> 01:16:13.640
as bad as Chrome is,

01:16:13.862 --> 01:16:15.141
just putting uBlock Origin in there,

01:16:15.362 --> 01:16:16.222
tweaking a few settings,

01:16:16.283 --> 01:16:17.563
taking some apps off your phone.

01:16:17.823 --> 01:16:19.264
Like most people are literally doing

01:16:19.783 --> 01:16:20.185
nothing

01:16:20.965 --> 01:16:23.427
Doing literally anything will move the

01:16:23.547 --> 01:16:23.769
needle.

01:16:23.868 --> 01:16:24.930
And so where I'm going with that is

01:16:24.949 --> 01:16:25.109
like,

01:16:25.951 --> 01:16:26.893
if you're one of those people or you

01:16:26.932 --> 01:16:28.213
know one of those people who's like, well,

01:16:28.694 --> 01:16:30.157
I genuinely get value out of my Ring

01:16:30.176 --> 01:16:31.578
doorbell and I feel like throwing it away

01:16:31.618 --> 01:16:32.238
won't make a difference.

01:16:32.739 --> 01:16:35.103
Turn on the end-to-end encryption because

01:16:35.122 --> 01:16:36.784
at least then Ring can't access your

01:16:36.805 --> 01:16:37.905
footage without your permission.

01:16:38.905 --> 01:16:41.368
And at least then you're like cutting off

01:16:41.408 --> 01:16:43.510
this whole search party feature.

01:16:43.590 --> 01:16:46.112
And it sends, like Anonymous was saying,

01:16:46.612 --> 01:16:47.613
if enough people do it,

01:16:47.672 --> 01:16:48.974
it sends that message of like,

01:16:49.413 --> 01:16:50.654
I want control over my data.

01:16:51.315 --> 01:16:52.676
And if enough people start sending that

01:16:52.716 --> 01:16:53.117
message,

01:16:53.396 --> 01:16:54.637
the market will start to pivot that way.

01:16:54.677 --> 01:16:55.319
I mean, look at Apple.

01:16:55.418 --> 01:16:57.699
Apple ran a whole campaign advertising

01:16:57.760 --> 01:16:58.140
privacy.

01:16:58.201 --> 01:16:59.140
And you could argue that they're not

01:16:59.161 --> 01:16:59.662
private enough.

01:16:59.921 --> 01:17:00.381
That's fine.

01:17:00.521 --> 01:17:01.082
I accept that.

01:17:01.363 --> 01:17:03.144
But the point is like they knew that

01:17:03.163 --> 01:17:04.425
that's something that matters to people

01:17:04.505 --> 01:17:05.586
and they want to start pivoting in that

01:17:05.605 --> 01:17:05.987
direction.

01:17:06.707 --> 01:17:07.627
And so like, yeah,

01:17:07.686 --> 01:17:09.728
it's every little bit helps.

01:17:09.747 --> 01:17:11.028
That's what I'm getting at is like every

01:17:11.068 --> 01:17:11.507
little thing,

01:17:11.547 --> 01:17:12.747
whether it's throwing the camera away

01:17:12.787 --> 01:17:13.427
entirely,

01:17:13.507 --> 01:17:15.048
whether it's canceling the subscription,

01:17:15.168 --> 01:17:16.509
whether it's turning on the encryption,

01:17:16.529 --> 01:17:18.430
like anything to send the message of,

01:17:18.850 --> 01:17:19.550
I don't like this.

01:17:19.750 --> 01:17:22.029
And, and I want privacy respected.

01:17:22.170 --> 01:17:23.251
I think on a mass scale,

01:17:23.291 --> 01:17:24.331
if enough people do that,

01:17:24.791 --> 01:17:25.430
it will add up.

01:17:25.551 --> 01:17:26.911
It will create an avalanche.

01:17:26.951 --> 01:17:29.131
So yeah, that's,

01:17:29.231 --> 01:17:30.171
that's my opinion on that one.

01:17:31.492 --> 01:17:34.573
Yeah, that's definitely a good, uh,

01:17:35.787 --> 01:17:37.548
A good thing to promote here.

01:17:37.588 --> 01:17:38.509
I think, yeah,

01:17:38.609 --> 01:17:41.831
more people will need to make changes.

01:17:41.911 --> 01:17:42.451
Like, yeah,

01:17:42.570 --> 01:17:44.091
it's not only going to be one person

01:17:44.112 --> 01:17:45.072
that changes things,

01:17:45.212 --> 01:17:48.033
but I guess we can also move on

01:17:48.113 --> 01:17:50.774
here to kind of a spooky story here

01:17:53.076 --> 01:17:53.976
about Reddit.

01:17:56.478 --> 01:18:00.220
So here we have the Homeland Security

01:18:00.260 --> 01:18:01.500
spying on Reddit users.

01:18:01.579 --> 01:18:02.520
So do you want to take this one,

01:18:02.541 --> 01:18:02.740
Nate?

01:18:04.599 --> 01:18:06.939
uh yeah it is my turn isn't it

01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:09.481
all right so um i think this will

01:18:09.502 --> 01:18:13.503
be potentially a quick story because um i

01:18:13.524 --> 01:18:15.005
think we've seen stories like this in the

01:18:15.045 --> 01:18:16.725
past or maybe it's just me in my

01:18:16.765 --> 01:18:18.186
past work i know we've definitely i've

01:18:18.367 --> 01:18:19.828
definitely covered stories like this but

01:18:20.148 --> 01:18:22.649
um this story is a really interesting

01:18:22.689 --> 01:18:25.751
write-up and it focuses on you know common

01:18:25.770 --> 01:18:27.192
journalistic technique is like you tell

01:18:27.292 --> 01:18:28.773
one person's story and you use that to

01:18:28.792 --> 01:18:30.394
kind of extrapolate to a larger trend

01:18:31.161 --> 01:18:32.101
larger trend.

01:18:32.601 --> 01:18:33.643
And so, uh,

01:18:33.662 --> 01:18:34.944
that's what this person did here.

01:18:35.064 --> 01:18:36.404
They talk about Homeland security is

01:18:36.425 --> 01:18:37.485
spying on Reddit users.

01:18:38.006 --> 01:18:40.368
And this one is really interesting.

01:18:40.807 --> 01:18:42.590
So specifically there's a Reddit user

01:18:42.609 --> 01:18:44.251
called budget chicken, two, four, two,

01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:44.631
five.

01:18:45.511 --> 01:18:46.632
I love randomly generated names.

01:18:46.653 --> 01:18:46.972
They're so fun.

01:18:47.052 --> 01:18:47.773
Um,

01:18:47.833 --> 01:18:48.753
at least I hope that's a randomly

01:18:48.793 --> 01:18:49.335
generated name.

01:18:49.354 --> 01:18:50.234
Uh, if not,

01:18:50.295 --> 01:18:51.296
I really want to hear the story behind

01:18:51.336 --> 01:18:52.577
it, but anyways, uh,

01:18:52.596 --> 01:18:53.938
so this actually happened in January.

01:18:53.997 --> 01:18:54.979
This is very recent.

01:18:55.930 --> 01:18:57.471
And this is an internal report that was

01:18:57.752 --> 01:18:58.573
leaked to this reporter.

01:18:59.333 --> 01:19:01.854
And it talks about how Homeland Security

01:19:01.875 --> 01:19:04.157
officials in Texas were monitoring this

01:19:04.256 --> 01:19:04.497
user,

01:19:05.037 --> 01:19:06.137
who as far as we know is not

01:19:06.158 --> 01:19:07.538
a narco-trafficker, a gang member,

01:19:07.640 --> 01:19:08.319
or a terrorist.

01:19:09.100 --> 01:19:10.542
The report centers on Budget Chicken's

01:19:10.561 --> 01:19:12.182
call for a protest near a Border Patrol

01:19:12.222 --> 01:19:14.104
facility in Edinburgh, Texas,

01:19:14.283 --> 01:19:15.905
which I lived in Texas for ten years

01:19:15.926 --> 01:19:16.765
and I don't even know where that is.

01:19:16.926 --> 01:19:17.726
I just want to point that out.

01:19:17.947 --> 01:19:18.707
Maybe I'm the idiot,

01:19:18.768 --> 01:19:20.168
but it's not like it's Dallas.

01:19:20.509 --> 01:19:21.789
It sounds to me like at best it's

01:19:21.810 --> 01:19:23.631
a suburb of a major city.

01:19:23.871 --> 01:19:24.011
So...

01:19:25.292 --> 01:19:27.292
The report acknowledges that anti-ice

01:19:27.332 --> 01:19:28.693
protests throughout Texas have been quote

01:19:28.712 --> 01:19:30.054
unquote generally lawful,

01:19:30.213 --> 01:19:31.514
and there's no evidence of any threat

01:19:31.554 --> 01:19:32.774
posed by this user's call.

01:19:32.854 --> 01:19:34.314
Any protest whatsoever near the border

01:19:34.354 --> 01:19:36.435
facility is said to warrant continuous or

01:19:36.475 --> 01:19:37.536
continued monitoring.

01:19:38.876 --> 01:19:40.237
And then there's a screenshot of the

01:19:40.317 --> 01:19:41.237
actual report here.

01:19:42.466 --> 01:19:42.926
Uh,

01:19:42.966 --> 01:19:44.547
to quote directly from the bulletin at

01:19:44.568 --> 01:19:44.908
this time,

01:19:44.927 --> 01:19:46.309
there's no specific reporting of planned

01:19:46.349 --> 01:19:46.689
violence,

01:19:46.710 --> 01:19:48.390
targeting DHS personnel or facilities

01:19:48.430 --> 01:19:49.391
linked to this protest call.

01:19:49.431 --> 01:19:49.731
However,

01:19:49.832 --> 01:19:52.033
any demonstration in proximity to a U S

01:19:52.054 --> 01:19:53.935
border patrol Rio Grande Valley facility

01:19:54.055 --> 01:19:55.396
may present operational safety and

01:19:55.417 --> 01:19:56.759
reputational risks that weren't continued

01:19:56.798 --> 01:19:59.280
monitoring the, um,

01:19:59.360 --> 01:20:00.381
I'll actually just read it cause it's real

01:20:00.421 --> 01:20:00.641
short.

01:20:00.681 --> 01:20:02.484
So there's a screenshot here for audio

01:20:02.503 --> 01:20:03.664
listeners of a,

01:20:04.404 --> 01:20:06.167
a Reddit post from this budget chicken guy

01:20:06.726 --> 01:20:08.408
in our slash Rio Grande Valley,

01:20:08.569 --> 01:20:09.130
Rio Grande.

01:20:09.430 --> 01:20:09.449
I,

01:20:10.426 --> 01:20:12.247
Again, lived in Texas for ten years.

01:20:12.268 --> 01:20:13.248
They pronounce everything wrong,

01:20:13.309 --> 01:20:15.010
so sorry if I pronounce it wrong.

01:20:15.930 --> 01:20:17.851
He says, join me in protest against ICE.

01:20:17.952 --> 01:20:19.073
He says, in light of today's events,

01:20:19.132 --> 01:20:20.453
I'm rallying people to support our rights

01:20:20.474 --> 01:20:21.854
and freedoms, not just for ourselves,

01:20:21.875 --> 01:20:22.676
but for our neighbors, family,

01:20:22.695 --> 01:20:23.136
and community.

01:20:23.435 --> 01:20:24.936
We need volunteers to be witnesses and to

01:20:24.978 --> 01:20:25.537
spread awareness.

01:20:25.557 --> 01:20:26.359
The more we are silent,

01:20:26.378 --> 01:20:27.859
the faster it will come to us.

01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:30.041
I will be at the intersection of the

01:20:30.220 --> 01:20:31.462
border patrol station around six.

01:20:31.502 --> 01:20:32.243
Please come support.

01:20:32.783 --> 01:20:36.206
That's the whole post.

01:20:36.246 --> 01:20:36.405
So...

01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:39.560
Where exactly is it?

01:20:40.021 --> 01:20:41.523
Well, okay,

01:20:41.563 --> 01:20:43.786
here's where he starts tying it into a

01:20:43.826 --> 01:20:44.305
bigger thing.

01:20:44.345 --> 01:20:44.926
He said,

01:20:46.268 --> 01:20:48.029
there's a section that gives a sense of

01:20:48.050 --> 01:20:49.752
the sheer volume of data Homeland Security

01:20:49.792 --> 01:20:51.394
collects to generate a big picture view of

01:20:51.413 --> 01:20:52.414
what's going on in the country.

01:20:52.854 --> 01:20:54.497
One specific priority asks what group or

01:20:54.537 --> 01:20:56.219
individuals are responsible for or are

01:20:56.238 --> 01:20:57.680
associated with border violence and what

01:20:57.699 --> 01:20:59.362
are the intended impact to Customs and

01:20:59.381 --> 01:21:00.903
Border Patrol personnel and operations.

01:21:01.644 --> 01:21:03.064
They say that they are tracking three

01:21:03.104 --> 01:21:04.345
particular social media trends,

01:21:04.365 --> 01:21:06.087
which is social media-driven mobilization,

01:21:06.728 --> 01:21:07.889
symbolic targeting of government

01:21:07.908 --> 01:21:08.368
facilities,

01:21:08.628 --> 01:21:10.211
and a statewide baseline of mobilization

01:21:10.251 --> 01:21:10.711
potential.

01:21:12.752 --> 01:21:13.953
At the risk of being a little biased,

01:21:14.073 --> 01:21:15.335
I want to point out none of those

01:21:15.354 --> 01:21:16.375
said anything about violence.

01:21:16.815 --> 01:21:18.516
Mobilization is literally just like

01:21:18.676 --> 01:21:19.537
getting people out.

01:21:20.037 --> 01:21:21.819
So like social media-driven mobilization,

01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:23.701
so like posting online like that guy just

01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:25.462
did, like, hey, I'm going to go protest.

01:21:25.582 --> 01:21:26.363
Everybody come with me.

01:21:26.582 --> 01:21:28.944
Like didn't say anything about violence,

01:21:29.024 --> 01:21:30.126
just people coming to protest.

01:21:32.229 --> 01:21:32.630
In other words,

01:21:32.649 --> 01:21:33.970
the government is building a sociological

01:21:34.011 --> 01:21:35.511
profile of political discontent.

01:21:36.073 --> 01:21:37.394
The bulletin notes that these protests are

01:21:37.453 --> 01:21:38.175
perception-driven,

01:21:38.215 --> 01:21:39.456
meaning they are motivated by general

01:21:39.496 --> 01:21:41.398
concerns about rights rather than specific

01:21:41.438 --> 01:21:41.837
incidents.

01:21:41.858 --> 01:21:43.960
Excuse me.

01:21:44.079 --> 01:21:45.720
I haven't had enough water today.

01:21:45.761 --> 01:21:45.902
So…

01:21:47.136 --> 01:21:49.396
It's to determine the threat posed by

01:21:49.417 --> 01:21:50.377
budget chicken two, four, two,

01:21:50.396 --> 01:21:50.976
five analysts.

01:21:50.997 --> 01:21:52.056
Didn't just look at the protest call.

01:21:52.077 --> 01:21:53.898
They scored the user's entire digital

01:21:53.957 --> 01:21:54.438
footprint.

01:21:54.898 --> 01:21:56.219
The bulletin notes that chicken quote

01:21:56.238 --> 01:21:57.458
frequently participates in various

01:21:57.479 --> 01:21:58.319
community discussions.

01:21:58.658 --> 01:22:00.319
For example, in our slash Texans,

01:22:01.140 --> 01:22:02.319
they compared the team to the Cleveland

01:22:02.340 --> 01:22:03.881
Browns in our slash movies.

01:22:03.921 --> 01:22:05.320
They discussed the film, almost famous,

01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:06.400
never seen it personally.

01:22:06.860 --> 01:22:08.301
Our slash Stephen King shares his book

01:22:08.322 --> 01:22:08.761
collection.

01:22:09.202 --> 01:22:11.103
And I don't know if I can curse

01:22:11.302 --> 01:22:12.382
and not get us demonetized.

01:22:12.483 --> 01:22:13.623
I've cursed before.

01:22:13.663 --> 01:22:15.565
So r slash fuck I'm old reminiscing about

01:22:15.586 --> 01:22:16.967
the nineteen seventies television

01:22:16.988 --> 01:22:17.748
production logos.

01:22:18.529 --> 01:22:20.591
And here's.

01:22:23.006 --> 01:22:23.226
Okay,

01:22:23.306 --> 01:22:24.587
I'll go ahead and say right here that

01:22:24.648 --> 01:22:25.969
up until this point, I was like,

01:22:26.409 --> 01:22:27.609
this is really invasive and I'm not

01:22:28.211 --> 01:22:28.791
condoning it.

01:22:29.212 --> 01:22:31.092
But I completely understand they need to

01:22:31.132 --> 01:22:32.014
like know what's going on.

01:22:32.054 --> 01:22:33.194
They need to keep an eye on threats.

01:22:33.534 --> 01:22:34.756
And just because this dude hasn't said

01:22:34.796 --> 01:22:35.896
anything doesn't mean he's not going to do

01:22:35.936 --> 01:22:36.296
anything.

01:22:36.617 --> 01:22:37.818
So I understand the like, hey,

01:22:37.877 --> 01:22:38.939
let's just keep an eye out on this.

01:22:39.418 --> 01:22:40.539
This is the part where they lost me.

01:22:41.079 --> 01:22:42.520
It is recommended that all agents wear

01:22:42.541 --> 01:22:44.483
their ballistic armor, utilize long arms,

01:22:44.563 --> 01:22:45.844
and if possible, work in groups.

01:22:47.417 --> 01:22:48.118
Personal opinion,

01:22:48.698 --> 01:22:50.180
based on military history and trading,

01:22:50.779 --> 01:22:52.461
that sounds a little excessive in response

01:22:52.480 --> 01:22:53.202
to a dude who said, hey,

01:22:53.221 --> 01:22:54.483
let's go stand on the corner and chant

01:22:54.502 --> 01:22:54.983
some slogans.

01:22:56.243 --> 01:22:56.543
Again,

01:22:56.944 --> 01:22:58.404
is it possible he might do something?

01:22:58.886 --> 01:22:59.485
Absolutely.

01:22:59.905 --> 01:23:00.926
Should you keep an eye on it?

01:23:01.266 --> 01:23:01.908
Absolutely.

01:23:02.188 --> 01:23:04.128
Should you escalate straight to rifles and

01:23:04.149 --> 01:23:04.630
body armor?

01:23:04.649 --> 01:23:04.930
Absolutely.

01:23:05.614 --> 01:23:06.296
I don't know about that.

01:23:06.577 --> 01:23:07.237
Maybe I'm wrong.

01:23:08.018 --> 01:23:09.439
Maybe I'm a little bit too much of

01:23:09.479 --> 01:23:10.220
a hippie these days.

01:23:10.282 --> 01:23:13.865
But yeah, to me, that was pretty wild.

01:23:15.207 --> 01:23:17.190
But anyways, personal opinions aside,

01:23:17.610 --> 01:23:19.453
the point here is the social media

01:23:19.474 --> 01:23:19.873
monitoring.

01:23:20.295 --> 01:23:20.935
I mentioned that...

01:23:21.936 --> 01:23:23.377
This story is not really unique.

01:23:23.438 --> 01:23:24.198
It's just recent.

01:23:25.037 --> 01:23:25.759
In the past,

01:23:26.298 --> 01:23:29.199
I have talked about stories of government

01:23:29.399 --> 01:23:30.279
monitoring,

01:23:30.520 --> 01:23:32.041
all kinds of social media networks,

01:23:32.480 --> 01:23:33.502
and not just the big ones,

01:23:33.582 --> 01:23:37.182
not just Facebook and TikTok and Reddit.

01:23:37.582 --> 01:23:37.743
I mean,

01:23:37.783 --> 01:23:39.404
there's small niche ones that are built

01:23:39.423 --> 01:23:40.744
for very specific communities.

01:23:41.704 --> 01:23:43.326
Discord servers, the government...

01:23:45.034 --> 01:23:46.176
I can go dig up this source if

01:23:46.256 --> 01:23:46.657
I have to,

01:23:46.716 --> 01:23:49.118
but I swear I've read stories about how

01:23:49.238 --> 01:23:50.560
on some of the bigger Discord servers,

01:23:50.819 --> 01:23:52.201
they will literally just throw sock puppet

01:23:52.220 --> 01:23:53.721
accounts in there to scrape up the

01:23:53.761 --> 01:23:55.264
messages so that they can search them

01:23:55.304 --> 01:23:55.543
later.

01:23:56.184 --> 01:23:57.805
And it's just...

01:23:59.144 --> 01:24:01.065
That's actually – I found this out

01:24:01.086 --> 01:24:01.405
recently.

01:24:01.685 --> 01:24:03.046
That's actually what Palantir does.

01:24:03.067 --> 01:24:04.408
That's their whole claim to fame is

01:24:04.467 --> 01:24:06.250
Palantir doesn't actually collect any

01:24:06.289 --> 01:24:06.590
data.

01:24:06.990 --> 01:24:09.432
They build the databases that link all the

01:24:09.472 --> 01:24:13.036
data together and that they can sell it

01:24:13.076 --> 01:24:14.256
to governments and law enforcement,

01:24:14.556 --> 01:24:15.978
and then they can search that database.

01:24:16.398 --> 01:24:19.600
So this is all powering the surveillance

01:24:19.621 --> 01:24:19.881
state,

01:24:20.020 --> 01:24:22.122
and –

01:24:21.296 --> 01:24:21.556
Yeah,

01:24:21.657 --> 01:24:23.476
it's just – it's a reminder to be

01:24:23.516 --> 01:24:24.618
careful what you post online.

01:24:25.118 --> 01:24:26.257
It's a reminder that anything you put in

01:24:26.278 --> 01:24:27.898
a digital format gets swept up.

01:24:28.417 --> 01:24:31.639
It's a reminder that, unfortunately,

01:24:31.998 --> 01:24:35.119
there is – yeah, this is happening.

01:24:35.199 --> 01:24:36.539
It's just a reminder to remember that on

01:24:36.619 --> 01:24:37.180
any platform.

01:24:37.260 --> 01:24:37.479
Again,

01:24:37.539 --> 01:24:39.020
it's not just the big stuff like Reddit

01:24:39.461 --> 01:24:39.980
and Discord.

01:24:40.041 --> 01:24:40.961
It's the small niche stuff.

01:24:41.421 --> 01:24:43.280
Anywhere they think something might be

01:24:43.320 --> 01:24:43.681
happening,

01:24:43.721 --> 01:24:45.082
they're trying to get a foothold in there.

01:24:45.301 --> 01:24:45.841
I guarantee it.

01:24:47.511 --> 01:24:50.672
So that is what I took away from

01:24:50.693 --> 01:24:51.212
that.

01:24:51.292 --> 01:24:53.172
I don't know if you had anything to

01:24:53.212 --> 01:24:54.833
add.

01:24:55.613 --> 01:24:59.055
Yeah, I guess some basic thoughts here.

01:24:59.975 --> 01:25:00.635
Generally,

01:25:01.395 --> 01:25:05.655
I was under the impression that law

01:25:05.676 --> 01:25:06.237
enforcement,

01:25:06.317 --> 01:25:10.096
I assume Homeland Security is law

01:25:10.136 --> 01:25:11.057
enforcement, I guess.

01:25:11.118 --> 01:25:13.057
I'm not really too privy about that.

01:25:13.457 --> 01:25:14.878
Homeland Security is...

01:25:17.560 --> 01:25:18.661
It's hard to explain what Homeland

01:25:18.680 --> 01:25:19.081
Security is.

01:25:19.501 --> 01:25:22.442
It's a federal – it's technically a type

01:25:22.481 --> 01:25:23.202
of law enforcement.

01:25:23.243 --> 01:25:24.743
It's the federal arm of the government.

01:25:25.923 --> 01:25:29.385
They generally handle border security and

01:25:29.425 --> 01:25:30.005
that kind of stuff.

01:25:30.886 --> 01:25:31.605
I'll let you go ahead and talk.

01:25:31.626 --> 01:25:32.627
I'm going to look it up exactly what

01:25:32.646 --> 01:25:32.827
it is.

01:25:32.846 --> 01:25:33.247
But yeah,

01:25:33.287 --> 01:25:34.247
they're kind of like a federal law

01:25:34.266 --> 01:25:35.087
enforcement for the border.

01:25:37.414 --> 01:25:37.755
Right.

01:25:37.835 --> 01:25:39.796
So I think let's just go ahead and

01:25:39.836 --> 01:25:41.596
assume that they are sort of law

01:25:41.617 --> 01:25:43.216
enforcement-esque, I guess.

01:25:43.356 --> 01:25:44.377
I'm not really familiar.

01:25:44.398 --> 01:25:45.118
I'm not American.

01:25:45.238 --> 01:25:46.599
So I'm just assuming.

01:25:46.639 --> 01:25:51.079
But I think that generally I was under

01:25:51.100 --> 01:25:52.041
the impression that, you know,

01:25:52.060 --> 01:25:54.462
in most places that were, you know,

01:25:54.502 --> 01:25:56.743
a free country, a country where, you know,

01:25:57.643 --> 01:25:59.645
People's privacy is respected that,

01:26:00.185 --> 01:26:00.426
you know,

01:26:00.466 --> 01:26:02.448
police officers or law enforcement in

01:26:02.488 --> 01:26:05.371
general wouldn't go poking around and

01:26:05.430 --> 01:26:07.653
start building a case against someone

01:26:07.733 --> 01:26:10.376
unless there was a suspicion of a crime.

01:26:11.136 --> 01:26:14.159
And I don't see how there's any how

01:26:14.579 --> 01:26:16.742
organizing a protest is possible.

01:26:17.502 --> 01:26:19.824
any sort of suspicion for a crime,

01:26:20.725 --> 01:26:23.068
everyone is perfectly within their rights

01:26:23.108 --> 01:26:23.648
to do so.

01:26:24.269 --> 01:26:25.729
So I think that's the number one

01:26:25.829 --> 01:26:27.752
concerning thing.

01:26:28.011 --> 01:26:29.552
This is the sort of thing we talk

01:26:29.573 --> 01:26:33.136
about when we're talking about Russia.

01:26:34.356 --> 01:26:36.378
They have Russian agents on social media

01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:39.641
just trawling social media,

01:26:39.662 --> 01:26:41.502
looking for posts about people organizing

01:26:41.542 --> 01:26:43.944
protests and stuff to crack down on this

01:26:44.005 --> 01:26:44.725
sort of thing, right?

01:26:45.086 --> 01:26:47.426
Like, I don't think this is really,

01:26:48.667 --> 01:26:49.606
this is not normal.

01:26:49.707 --> 01:26:53.769
This is law enforcement and, like,

01:26:54.009 --> 01:26:54.948
you know,

01:26:55.569 --> 01:26:58.689
federal government agents intermingling in

01:26:58.770 --> 01:27:01.110
people's right to organize.

01:27:01.171 --> 01:27:03.030
Like, this is, like,

01:27:03.070 --> 01:27:04.311
kind of concerning stuff.

01:27:05.511 --> 01:27:07.212
And I think the other thing that I

01:27:07.252 --> 01:27:10.094
thought about this story was it was kind

01:27:10.113 --> 01:27:14.715
of surprising that they even have

01:27:16.055 --> 01:27:16.395
you know,

01:27:18.778 --> 01:27:20.820
people who are actually trolling Reddit

01:27:20.860 --> 01:27:22.202
looking at things like this,

01:27:22.662 --> 01:27:24.725
especially because, you know,

01:27:24.965 --> 01:27:27.028
it's within people's right to protest what

01:27:27.068 --> 01:27:27.648
is going on.

01:27:27.748 --> 01:27:29.570
It's not against the law.

01:27:29.671 --> 01:27:30.792
It's completely legal.

01:27:31.832 --> 01:27:34.697
So it's kind of surprising that there's a

01:27:36.653 --> 01:27:39.756
whole like they didn't just like save the

01:27:39.796 --> 01:27:41.377
post in like a document they like

01:27:41.457 --> 01:27:43.679
literally went through this entire this

01:27:43.719 --> 01:27:47.402
person's entire posting history and they

01:27:47.421 --> 01:27:49.264
didn't even have a suspicion that a crime

01:27:49.283 --> 01:27:51.786
was going to be committed so i think

01:27:51.826 --> 01:27:55.349
that's kind of concerning um this sort of

01:27:55.368 --> 01:27:57.149
thing shouldn't be happening in a country

01:27:57.170 --> 01:27:58.872
where you know things should be

01:28:01.637 --> 01:28:03.500
you should be free to organize a protest

01:28:03.539 --> 01:28:04.319
is what I'm trying to say.

01:28:04.399 --> 01:28:05.921
This is not like controversial.

01:28:05.942 --> 01:28:07.342
I don't think, um,

01:28:07.722 --> 01:28:09.163
without having federal agents,

01:28:09.224 --> 01:28:12.726
just like monitoring your social media

01:28:12.926 --> 01:28:13.427
presence.

01:28:13.868 --> 01:28:14.028
Um,

01:28:14.668 --> 01:28:16.951
so that's kind of the main concern that

01:28:16.990 --> 01:28:17.770
I got from this.

01:28:18.551 --> 01:28:21.895
And, you know, people were saying,

01:28:21.914 --> 01:28:22.534
you know, Oh,

01:28:22.574 --> 01:28:23.456
what were they going to do?

01:28:23.496 --> 01:28:23.695
Like,

01:28:23.716 --> 01:28:25.037
they don't even know what they're doing.

01:28:25.157 --> 01:28:25.898
Like, you know,

01:28:26.018 --> 01:28:27.458
I think this is just concerning from the

01:28:27.498 --> 01:28:29.261
fact that it was happening in the first

01:28:29.280 --> 01:28:30.341
place.

01:28:30.641 --> 01:28:30.681
Um,

01:28:31.771 --> 01:28:33.293
But yeah,

01:28:34.555 --> 01:28:37.917
it's kind of raising alarm bells in my

01:28:37.957 --> 01:28:40.541
head that this is sort of not something

01:28:40.581 --> 01:28:43.443
that is generally something that is good

01:28:43.483 --> 01:28:46.707
that you would be happy about happening in

01:28:46.726 --> 01:28:47.266
your country.

01:28:47.327 --> 01:28:49.408
But I guess throwing it back to you,

01:28:49.429 --> 01:28:49.668
Nate,

01:28:49.970 --> 01:28:51.051
do you have anything more to add on

01:28:51.070 --> 01:28:51.211
that?

01:28:53.569 --> 01:28:55.530
no um i totally agree with you uh

01:28:55.990 --> 01:28:57.811
real quick according to wikipedia the

01:28:57.851 --> 01:28:59.231
department of homeland security is a

01:28:59.292 --> 01:29:00.752
federal executive department rep

01:29:00.972 --> 01:29:03.493
responsible for public security uh its

01:29:03.533 --> 01:29:05.274
mission involves anti-terrorism civil

01:29:05.293 --> 01:29:07.255
defense immigration and customs and border

01:29:07.814 --> 01:29:09.296
border control cyber security

01:29:09.655 --> 01:29:11.337
transportation security maritime security

01:29:11.356 --> 01:29:13.858
and sea rescue and the mitigation of

01:29:13.938 --> 01:29:15.917
weapons of mass destruction wow that last

01:29:15.978 --> 01:29:18.418
one's new to me okay coast guard's gonna

01:29:18.458 --> 01:29:19.939
go stop nukes um

01:29:20.988 --> 01:29:22.470
No, I one hundred percent agree with you.

01:29:22.670 --> 01:29:25.172
And it sucks because, again,

01:29:25.313 --> 01:29:27.355
with with my military background,

01:29:27.515 --> 01:29:29.899
I understand the idea of like like you

01:29:29.939 --> 01:29:30.099
said,

01:29:30.579 --> 01:29:31.380
we don't know what this guy is going

01:29:31.399 --> 01:29:31.881
to do.

01:29:32.521 --> 01:29:33.582
But at the same time,

01:29:33.703 --> 01:29:36.305
like it just feels so heavy handed.

01:29:36.345 --> 01:29:37.927
Like it's one thing to say like, OK,

01:29:38.408 --> 01:29:39.149
somebody made a post.

01:29:39.170 --> 01:29:40.490
They're going to be protesting tonight at

01:29:40.530 --> 01:29:40.711
six.

01:29:41.332 --> 01:29:41.652
noted.

01:29:42.292 --> 01:29:43.932
It's another thing to like go through this

01:29:43.953 --> 01:29:46.734
dude's history and compile a whole

01:29:46.974 --> 01:29:47.795
dossier.

01:29:48.494 --> 01:29:50.176
And especially to like, put it on record.

01:29:50.275 --> 01:29:50.916
It's, I don't know.

01:29:50.935 --> 01:29:52.115
I'm not trying to excuse it for the

01:29:52.136 --> 01:29:52.356
record.

01:29:52.417 --> 01:29:53.617
I'm not trying to do that at all,

01:29:53.936 --> 01:29:54.797
but I understand.

01:29:55.698 --> 01:29:57.819
I understand the need to make sure he's

01:29:57.859 --> 01:29:58.238
not a threat.

01:29:58.259 --> 01:29:59.338
Like maybe you go through his history and

01:29:59.359 --> 01:30:00.640
you find all this like violent

01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:01.560
anti-government stuff.

01:30:01.579 --> 01:30:02.220
And it's like, Oh,

01:30:02.541 --> 01:30:03.701
this dude might do something,

01:30:04.261 --> 01:30:05.021
but like you,

01:30:05.122 --> 01:30:06.681
you scroll through it for five seconds and

01:30:06.702 --> 01:30:08.063
you're like, he talks about sports.

01:30:08.243 --> 01:30:09.104
He watches movies.

01:30:09.244 --> 01:30:11.511
He talks about logos from TV shows.

01:30:11.570 --> 01:30:11.791
Like,

01:30:12.231 --> 01:30:13.655
this dude is probably not going to do

01:30:13.695 --> 01:30:14.356
anything violent.

01:30:14.658 --> 01:30:16.442
And again, just the over-response of...

01:30:18.100 --> 01:30:19.520
I don't know it's just it's it's

01:30:20.301 --> 01:30:21.980
everything about it I don't like I don't

01:30:22.020 --> 01:30:23.622
like the overreaction I don't like the

01:30:23.641 --> 01:30:25.101
fact that they went looking in the first

01:30:25.122 --> 01:30:27.162
place and it like you're saying it has

01:30:27.203 --> 01:30:29.802
such a chilling effect on protesting

01:30:30.182 --> 01:30:31.884
especially when again in the context of

01:30:31.904 --> 01:30:34.184
the article said that even the government

01:30:34.203 --> 01:30:36.604
admits that generally speaking the

01:30:36.645 --> 01:30:38.565
protests have been peaceful they have been

01:30:38.725 --> 01:30:40.685
non-violent and to just have this

01:30:40.786 --> 01:30:42.407
overreaction of like treating everyone as

01:30:42.426 --> 01:30:43.127
a threat um

01:30:45.288 --> 01:30:45.630
Oh,

01:30:46.090 --> 01:30:47.091
I'm not going to dig into it too

01:30:47.110 --> 01:30:48.311
much because this is a really political

01:30:48.351 --> 01:30:50.172
take, but I think America has long had,

01:30:50.252 --> 01:30:51.453
and actually this is probably not even a

01:30:51.474 --> 01:30:52.515
hot take, even though it's political.

01:30:52.916 --> 01:30:54.436
I think America has long had a problem

01:30:54.617 --> 01:30:57.439
of the over-militarization of police.

01:30:58.420 --> 01:30:59.640
I think everyone across the board can

01:30:59.701 --> 01:31:00.641
generally agree with that.

01:31:01.242 --> 01:31:02.543
And this is just kind of part of

01:31:02.564 --> 01:31:03.784
that trend of like, oh,

01:31:03.864 --> 01:31:04.784
somebody said anything,

01:31:05.126 --> 01:31:06.726
we instantly have to assume the worst

01:31:06.787 --> 01:31:08.188
intent and gear up for the worst.

01:31:08.228 --> 01:31:08.649
And it's like,

01:31:09.564 --> 01:31:09.885
Again,

01:31:10.265 --> 01:31:11.565
was body armor and rifles really

01:31:11.605 --> 01:31:12.145
necessary?

01:31:12.185 --> 01:31:13.707
Was it necessary to go digging through all

01:31:13.747 --> 01:31:15.006
his history?

01:31:16.127 --> 01:31:17.728
Yeah, it's really crazy.

01:31:17.747 --> 01:31:21.310
I don't know if you had anything more

01:31:21.329 --> 01:31:21.729
to add to that,

01:31:21.750 --> 01:31:23.770
but there were a couple of comments in

01:31:23.791 --> 01:31:25.350
the chat here that I thought were pretty

01:31:25.411 --> 01:31:26.452
on point.

01:31:27.771 --> 01:31:28.872
If I could show those.

01:31:28.893 --> 01:31:29.212
Yeah, sure.

01:31:29.752 --> 01:31:31.753
Let's see what people are saying.

01:31:33.024 --> 01:31:34.463
Yeah, so anonymous-thirty-five said,

01:31:34.503 --> 01:31:35.264
this is why people should

01:31:35.304 --> 01:31:36.085
compartmentalize.

01:31:36.885 --> 01:31:37.284
I agree.

01:31:37.645 --> 01:31:38.465
Like, unfortunately,

01:31:38.505 --> 01:31:39.585
Reddit's making that really hard.

01:31:39.685 --> 01:31:42.265
I actually logged into Reddit today and

01:31:42.805 --> 01:31:44.086
for the first time in, like, two years.

01:31:44.865 --> 01:31:47.186
And I was going to leave a post

01:31:47.226 --> 01:31:48.226
in r slash privacy,

01:31:48.787 --> 01:31:49.947
and it got instantly deleted.

01:31:49.966 --> 01:31:50.967
Or I was going to leave a comment

01:31:50.988 --> 01:31:51.747
because while I was there,

01:31:51.807 --> 01:31:52.807
I saw something that I was like, yeah,

01:31:52.847 --> 01:31:53.528
I can weigh in on this.

01:31:53.967 --> 01:31:55.588
Instantly deleted because I haven't been

01:31:55.609 --> 01:31:56.849
on Reddit in so long that now my,

01:31:56.868 --> 01:31:58.828
like, user quality score, whatever crap,

01:31:58.868 --> 01:31:59.668
is, like, zero.

01:32:00.368 --> 01:32:02.229
And so I can't post anywhere.

01:32:03.105 --> 01:32:05.207
And it's like, okay,

01:32:05.427 --> 01:32:07.170
so what am I just supposed to randomly

01:32:07.210 --> 01:32:09.131
comment on posts I don't care about so

01:32:09.152 --> 01:32:10.372
that Reddit thinks I'm not a bot?

01:32:10.753 --> 01:32:11.795
It's a hard system to game,

01:32:11.835 --> 01:32:12.314
at least for me,

01:32:12.336 --> 01:32:13.417
because I don't care enough to figure it

01:32:13.457 --> 01:32:13.556
out.

01:32:15.921 --> 01:32:17.261
I guess what I'm getting at is some

01:32:17.421 --> 01:32:18.643
sites make it really hard to

01:32:18.662 --> 01:32:19.804
compartmentalize like that.

01:32:20.764 --> 01:32:21.725
But yeah, it is really,

01:32:22.445 --> 01:32:23.265
especially nowadays,

01:32:23.286 --> 01:32:24.506
if you're planning to be more politically

01:32:24.567 --> 01:32:25.807
active where that's clearly going to put

01:32:25.847 --> 01:32:26.908
you under a microscope,

01:32:27.408 --> 01:32:29.130
it's probably not a bad idea to have

01:32:29.170 --> 01:32:31.492
your normal Reddit account where you only

01:32:31.532 --> 01:32:33.854
talk about sports and TV shows and have

01:32:33.873 --> 01:32:36.494
your other Reddit account where you talk

01:32:36.534 --> 01:32:38.216
more about politics and stuff.

01:32:38.277 --> 01:32:38.476
Yeah.

01:32:39.891 --> 01:32:41.091
It's sad that we're moving into a world

01:32:41.131 --> 01:32:41.733
where just normal,

01:32:41.773 --> 01:32:42.813
peaceful protesters need to

01:32:42.832 --> 01:32:43.512
compartmentalize.

01:32:43.552 --> 01:32:44.493
That's not a good trend.

01:32:46.713 --> 01:32:47.054
Yeah.

01:32:47.333 --> 01:32:49.135
And then this is just real quick.

01:32:49.175 --> 01:32:50.795
This is something that Jonah touched on

01:32:50.835 --> 01:32:51.255
recently.

01:32:51.975 --> 01:32:53.636
You said Facebook and Google are

01:32:53.655 --> 01:32:54.555
collecting your data so they can

01:32:54.576 --> 01:32:55.155
personalize ads.

01:32:55.195 --> 01:32:56.417
Government collects your data so they can

01:32:56.476 --> 01:32:57.837
ruin your life if they decide to.

01:32:58.957 --> 01:33:00.778
A couple weeks ago when Jonah and I

01:33:00.818 --> 01:33:02.957
talked about the UK trying to ban VPNs,

01:33:03.679 --> 01:33:07.240
it sounds so –

01:33:06.283 --> 01:33:07.503
I hate that I'm saying this because I

01:33:07.543 --> 01:33:08.744
know that I sound crazy,

01:33:08.784 --> 01:33:09.524
but unfortunately,

01:33:09.564 --> 01:33:10.865
this is the direction we're headed in.

01:33:11.685 --> 01:33:12.966
He pointed out that a lot of the

01:33:13.006 --> 01:33:13.247
time,

01:33:13.347 --> 01:33:15.488
authoritarian countries will outlaw very,

01:33:15.529 --> 01:33:18.411
very tiny things for the sole purpose that

01:33:18.451 --> 01:33:20.811
they can come after you anytime they want.

01:33:20.931 --> 01:33:24.094
And it's almost like in the military,

01:33:24.694 --> 01:33:26.235
they had what was called a – because

01:33:26.256 --> 01:33:27.336
this article has got me thinking about the

01:33:27.355 --> 01:33:27.837
military now.

01:33:28.396 --> 01:33:29.618
They had what was called a – I

01:33:29.637 --> 01:33:31.738
think it was – I want to say

01:33:31.759 --> 01:33:32.699
it was Article thirty-four,

01:33:32.739 --> 01:33:33.760
but I think I might be confusing that

01:33:33.779 --> 01:33:34.440
with Rule thirty-four.

01:33:35.219 --> 01:33:36.479
Um, but anyways,

01:33:36.500 --> 01:33:38.060
they have this article that's literally a

01:33:38.121 --> 01:33:38.640
catch all.

01:33:39.060 --> 01:33:40.061
Um, and it's like,

01:33:40.082 --> 01:33:40.962
that's literally what it is.

01:33:41.323 --> 01:33:43.363
It has no purpose other than to be

01:33:43.423 --> 01:33:43.623
like,

01:33:44.083 --> 01:33:45.265
we want to nail you against the wall.

01:33:45.284 --> 01:33:46.426
So we're going to throw this charge on

01:33:46.466 --> 01:33:46.826
there too.

01:33:47.086 --> 01:33:48.146
That is the whole point of it.

01:33:48.226 --> 01:33:49.328
It's just like a general,

01:33:49.707 --> 01:33:51.849
like you've done something generally not

01:33:51.908 --> 01:33:52.329
okay.

01:33:52.850 --> 01:33:53.970
And we disapprove of it,

01:33:53.990 --> 01:33:55.371
but it's not covered by anything else.

01:33:55.411 --> 01:33:57.533
And sometimes it's a standalone thing to

01:33:57.552 --> 01:33:58.894
like get you in trouble when you finally

01:33:58.913 --> 01:33:59.993
screw up too much and somebody doesn't

01:34:00.014 --> 01:34:00.333
like you.

01:34:00.715 --> 01:34:02.376
Sometimes they tack it onto like six other

01:34:02.416 --> 01:34:03.796
charges just to like pour salt in the

01:34:03.817 --> 01:34:04.016
wound.

01:34:04.577 --> 01:34:06.457
But yeah, it's like the same thing.

01:34:06.537 --> 01:34:09.177
When all this data is collected,

01:34:09.757 --> 01:34:12.738
nobody ever goes through any significant

01:34:12.779 --> 01:34:13.779
period of their life without doing

01:34:13.899 --> 01:34:15.538
something illegal, without jaywalking,

01:34:15.578 --> 01:34:16.760
without accidentally littering.

01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:19.539
And yeah,

01:34:19.920 --> 01:34:21.541
this stuff can be weaponized against you,

01:34:21.881 --> 01:34:22.461
unfortunately.

01:34:22.600 --> 01:34:25.100
Again, I know I sound crazy,

01:34:25.140 --> 01:34:26.862
but that's kind of the direction we're

01:34:26.881 --> 01:34:27.282
heading in,

01:34:27.402 --> 01:34:29.322
where every single thing is now making

01:34:29.362 --> 01:34:29.981
people suspect.

01:34:30.002 --> 01:34:31.903
And going back to what I was saying

01:34:31.943 --> 01:34:33.323
earlier about saying this for years...

01:34:36.563 --> 01:34:37.122
I hate being right.

01:34:37.182 --> 01:34:37.342
Yeah,

01:34:37.382 --> 01:34:41.947
I think it's justified to feel frustrated,

01:34:41.987 --> 01:34:43.667
especially when a lot of times I think

01:34:43.707 --> 01:34:45.529
a lot of people in a lot of

01:34:45.548 --> 01:34:46.109
countries,

01:34:46.250 --> 01:34:47.990
they don't feel like they have any say

01:34:48.150 --> 01:34:51.132
over the authority that's imposed on them.

01:34:51.292 --> 01:34:52.274
Like by the government,

01:34:52.314 --> 01:34:53.534
they can kind of just say,

01:34:54.993 --> 01:34:56.854
do what they can, protest,

01:34:57.373 --> 01:34:58.875
vote every once in a while,

01:34:59.074 --> 01:35:01.755
and the government still passes ridiculous

01:35:01.795 --> 01:35:03.695
laws that allow data brokers to collect

01:35:03.756 --> 01:35:04.536
all your information,

01:35:04.615 --> 01:35:05.975
even though most people would be against

01:35:06.036 --> 01:35:06.155
it.

01:35:07.515 --> 01:35:12.896
It's kind of the problem with, you know,

01:35:12.936 --> 01:35:14.237
centralization like that.

01:35:14.737 --> 01:35:16.818
But I think it's, yeah,

01:35:17.358 --> 01:35:19.637
you're right to feel frustrated with that.

01:35:20.557 --> 01:35:23.259
And I think it's also a problem

01:35:24.430 --> 01:35:28.212
pretty pretty tied to to privacy as well

01:35:28.233 --> 01:35:30.814
because a lot of times these companies get

01:35:30.833 --> 01:35:32.234
away with doing all this stuff with your

01:35:32.255 --> 01:35:34.716
information because you know there's

01:35:34.775 --> 01:35:39.078
people in the government who benefit from

01:35:39.417 --> 01:35:42.079
allowing this to continue so they don't

01:35:42.100 --> 01:35:44.560
have any reason to change the things that

01:35:44.621 --> 01:35:46.242
affect a lot of people um

01:35:48.498 --> 01:35:49.418
So that's my take on it.

01:35:49.519 --> 01:35:51.659
I guess on your comment, Cannabida,

01:35:52.600 --> 01:35:54.760
I think it's a good post.

01:35:55.380 --> 01:35:56.761
But yeah, I mean,

01:35:56.860 --> 01:35:58.860
I don't really have anything more to add

01:35:58.900 --> 01:35:59.220
here.

01:35:59.440 --> 01:36:00.841
I guess we can kind of move into

01:36:00.862 --> 01:36:02.101
the forum updates now.

01:36:03.202 --> 01:36:04.582
So in a minute, though,

01:36:04.822 --> 01:36:06.962
we'll start by taking some viewer

01:36:07.002 --> 01:36:07.622
questions.

01:36:07.882 --> 01:36:09.162
There was quite a lot of activity on

01:36:09.182 --> 01:36:10.323
the forum thread this time.

01:36:10.764 --> 01:36:11.844
So you can leave them there or you

01:36:11.863 --> 01:36:13.003
can leave them in the chat and we'll

01:36:13.024 --> 01:36:14.463
just pop them up on screen as well.

01:36:16.005 --> 01:36:17.104
But if you've been holding out

01:36:18.447 --> 01:36:20.547
Any questions on the stories that we've

01:36:20.568 --> 01:36:21.628
been talking about so far?

01:36:22.128 --> 01:36:25.350
Definitely go ahead and start leaving them

01:36:25.470 --> 01:36:27.431
in the chat or in the forum thread.

01:36:28.453 --> 01:36:29.132
But for now,

01:36:29.372 --> 01:36:32.135
let's check in on our community forums.

01:36:32.194 --> 01:36:34.256
So there's always a lot of activity going

01:36:34.315 --> 01:36:34.735
on there.

01:36:35.096 --> 01:36:37.057
And especially in the last week or two,

01:36:37.078 --> 01:36:38.679
there's been quite a lot of controversial

01:36:38.719 --> 01:36:40.319
stories being shared and a lot of

01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:41.840
discussion around different topics.

01:36:42.940 --> 01:36:44.582
If you're not already a member,

01:36:44.681 --> 01:36:46.922
definitely consider joining at

01:36:47.063 --> 01:36:50.804
discuss.privacyguides.net.

01:36:51.864 --> 01:36:53.524
So the first post that we want to

01:36:53.604 --> 01:36:54.345
touch on is...

01:36:56.752 --> 01:36:58.773
Basically, it was a post,

01:36:58.832 --> 01:37:00.914
it was a news post on the forum,

01:37:01.095 --> 01:37:03.216
and there was a discussion around Google

01:37:03.435 --> 01:37:06.497
fulfilling an ICE subpoena demanding

01:37:06.637 --> 01:37:09.479
student journalists' bank and credit

01:37:09.579 --> 01:37:10.320
details.

01:37:11.060 --> 01:37:12.761
So this is kind of the issue that

01:37:12.782 --> 01:37:13.622
we talked about with,

01:37:14.444 --> 01:37:16.204
like we were talking about at the start,

01:37:16.225 --> 01:37:17.865
when you give all this information to

01:37:18.025 --> 01:37:18.426
Google,

01:37:18.466 --> 01:37:20.447
then when there is a law enforcement

01:37:20.488 --> 01:37:20.887
request,

01:37:21.007 --> 01:37:23.729
they can actually hand it over depending

01:37:23.890 --> 01:37:25.411
on, you know, what...

01:37:26.030 --> 01:37:27.594
law enforcement requests they receive.

01:37:28.055 --> 01:37:30.918
So it is kind of unfortunate that this

01:37:31.059 --> 01:37:34.864
student had their details handed over

01:37:34.925 --> 01:37:35.645
against their will.

01:37:36.425 --> 01:37:39.148
and against their consent, I guess,

01:37:39.529 --> 01:37:41.511
because Google had it in plain text.

01:37:42.072 --> 01:37:44.033
So if that is a problem with these

01:37:44.094 --> 01:37:45.856
tools, if it's not encrypted,

01:37:45.917 --> 01:37:49.240
then Google is free to share that

01:37:49.301 --> 01:37:49.942
information.

01:37:50.622 --> 01:37:53.005
So there was some discussion there in that

01:37:53.045 --> 01:37:53.445
thread.

01:37:53.546 --> 01:37:54.787
But yeah,

01:37:54.806 --> 01:37:55.788
do you have any thoughts on this one,

01:37:55.809 --> 01:37:56.009
Nate?

01:37:59.400 --> 01:37:59.661
Um,

01:38:00.862 --> 01:38:02.262
thoughts on the story itself or thoughts

01:38:02.302 --> 01:38:02.802
on the thread?

01:38:02.823 --> 01:38:03.923
Cause I'm looking through the thread and

01:38:03.944 --> 01:38:05.064
the thread kind of turned into a

01:38:05.104 --> 01:38:06.385
discussion about de-Googling,

01:38:06.604 --> 01:38:09.046
which I think is a really cool topic

01:38:09.266 --> 01:38:11.347
that I'm always down to talk about, but.

01:38:13.878 --> 01:38:14.578
Yeah, the story,

01:38:14.698 --> 01:38:16.520
it looks like this person went to a

01:38:16.579 --> 01:38:17.020
protest.

01:38:17.041 --> 01:38:18.240
We were just talking about that.

01:38:19.202 --> 01:38:20.703
Attended a protest targeting companies

01:38:20.722 --> 01:38:22.203
that supplied weapons to Israel at a

01:38:22.243 --> 01:38:23.784
Cornell University job fair in twenty

01:38:23.805 --> 01:38:24.385
twenty four.

01:38:25.725 --> 01:38:26.645
According to this article,

01:38:26.685 --> 01:38:28.167
they were there for about five minutes,

01:38:28.386 --> 01:38:29.887
but that was enough to get them banned

01:38:29.908 --> 01:38:30.509
from campus.

01:38:31.149 --> 01:38:31.469
And then.

01:38:33.010 --> 01:38:34.789
Yeah, DHS requested,

01:38:34.810 --> 01:38:37.730
I'm assuming this was a large request and

01:38:37.751 --> 01:38:39.351
not just this person specifically,

01:38:39.412 --> 01:38:41.551
but probably as part of a request.

01:38:42.391 --> 01:38:44.653
Google or DHS requested data from this

01:38:44.693 --> 01:38:46.912
person and or from Google and Meta.

01:38:47.573 --> 01:38:49.394
This included usernames, addresses,

01:38:49.533 --> 01:38:50.594
itemized list of services,

01:38:50.634 --> 01:38:52.515
including any IP masking services.

01:38:52.534 --> 01:38:53.414
So like VPNs,

01:38:53.875 --> 01:38:55.154
telephone or instrument numbers,

01:38:55.175 --> 01:38:56.895
subscriber numbers or identities,

01:38:56.956 --> 01:38:58.136
credit card, bank account.

01:38:59.068 --> 01:39:01.668
um excuse me and yeah apparently this

01:39:01.708 --> 01:39:06.751
person just found this out so whoo that's

01:39:06.791 --> 01:39:10.153
crazy um the letter asks the companies to

01:39:10.172 --> 01:39:11.653
provide users with as much notice as

01:39:11.693 --> 01:39:16.034
possible before complying ooh so maybe

01:39:16.475 --> 01:39:17.916
maybe google was in the wrong here oh

01:39:17.935 --> 01:39:20.877
no no oh sorry i'm skipping around that

01:39:20.896 --> 01:39:23.997
was a letter from eff to big big

01:39:24.037 --> 01:39:25.498
tech companies telling them to change how

01:39:25.519 --> 01:39:25.679
they

01:39:26.515 --> 01:39:27.957
they comply with information.

01:39:28.136 --> 01:39:31.417
So, excuse me.

01:39:31.457 --> 01:39:31.677
Yeah.

01:39:31.818 --> 01:39:33.979
It's, it's, it's pretty interesting.

01:39:33.998 --> 01:39:36.840
And I think it's, like you said, it's,

01:39:36.939 --> 01:39:40.481
it's, I mean, kind of, I mean,

01:39:40.502 --> 01:39:41.721
it's two sides of the same coin, right?

01:39:41.742 --> 01:39:42.922
Like that's why people started talking

01:39:42.943 --> 01:39:43.643
about de-Googling.

01:39:43.703 --> 01:39:45.743
It's if, if information isn't encrypted,

01:39:45.863 --> 01:39:46.144
isn't,

01:39:46.993 --> 01:39:48.175
um, zero knowledge.

01:39:48.194 --> 01:39:49.896
If the company's whole point is to know

01:39:49.917 --> 01:39:51.497
who you are and know every single thing

01:39:51.518 --> 01:39:51.997
about you.

01:39:52.158 --> 01:39:54.380
And as Google famously said, you know,

01:39:54.421 --> 01:39:55.301
to read your mind,

01:39:55.862 --> 01:39:58.264
then that's a data that they can turn

01:39:58.323 --> 01:39:59.385
over and they can hand over.

01:39:59.524 --> 01:40:00.926
And so trying to move away from these

01:40:00.945 --> 01:40:03.047
kinds of bigger companies into things that

01:40:03.068 --> 01:40:05.310
are more privacy, respecting, um,

01:40:05.350 --> 01:40:05.909
self-hosting,

01:40:05.970 --> 01:40:07.332
certainly if you have that technical

01:40:07.391 --> 01:40:08.792
expertise, but not everybody does.

01:40:09.753 --> 01:40:10.395
Um, you know,

01:40:10.454 --> 01:40:12.617
just things that are all done on device.

01:40:12.657 --> 01:40:14.078
Like a lot of the discussion here was

01:40:14.118 --> 01:40:15.759
about like Google maps and alternatives to

01:40:15.779 --> 01:40:16.319
Google maps.

01:40:16.380 --> 01:40:18.962
So, um, anything that's done on device,

01:40:19.042 --> 01:40:20.262
anything that stores your data in an

01:40:20.283 --> 01:40:22.083
encrypted fashion where they can't access

01:40:22.144 --> 01:40:23.725
it or tries not to store your data

01:40:23.985 --> 01:40:24.345
at all.

01:40:24.787 --> 01:40:25.828
Uh, I mean,

01:40:25.847 --> 01:40:26.828
that's kind of what we're all about at

01:40:26.847 --> 01:40:29.791
privacy guides, big fans of that stuff.

01:40:30.430 --> 01:40:31.692
Yeah, I think, you know,

01:40:31.731 --> 01:40:33.953
moving away from as many Google services

01:40:34.113 --> 01:40:34.295
is.

01:40:35.574 --> 01:40:37.136
always going to be a benefit for your

01:40:37.176 --> 01:40:39.856
privacy because just the nature of Google,

01:40:39.877 --> 01:40:42.179
they're just one of the largest data

01:40:42.219 --> 01:40:43.179
collectors in the world.

01:40:43.560 --> 01:40:43.680
Um,

01:40:43.779 --> 01:40:45.360
any data that you can avoid giving to

01:40:45.381 --> 01:40:47.742
them is I would say a good, um,

01:40:48.582 --> 01:40:51.944
but I guess in this case, um,

01:40:52.024 --> 01:40:53.744
I guess this is sort of, uh,

01:40:53.765 --> 01:40:55.445
I can't actually read the article because

01:40:55.485 --> 01:40:57.006
there's, it requires an email.

01:40:57.207 --> 01:40:59.287
Um, but I'm going to assume there was,

01:40:59.509 --> 01:41:00.328
there was, uh,

01:41:00.349 --> 01:41:01.970
it was a geo-fencing situation.

01:41:05.494 --> 01:41:06.775
Is that how they were able to identify?

01:41:08.155 --> 01:41:08.957
Let me see.

01:41:08.997 --> 01:41:10.577
Let me go ahead and read because I

01:41:10.596 --> 01:41:13.219
have it pulled up here and I'm skimming

01:41:13.279 --> 01:41:19.801
it, but let's see.

01:41:19.862 --> 01:41:21.301
Full extent of the information the agency

01:41:21.322 --> 01:41:21.643
sought.

01:41:24.923 --> 01:41:26.685
The subpoena provides no justification for

01:41:26.704 --> 01:41:28.485
why ICE is asking for this information.

01:41:30.349 --> 01:41:32.810
um it just requests that google not

01:41:32.850 --> 01:41:34.550
disclose the existence of the summons for

01:41:34.590 --> 01:41:37.371
an indefinite period of time good god

01:41:37.411 --> 01:41:42.472
almighty um yeah he's this dude doesn't

01:41:42.493 --> 01:41:43.672
even live in the country anymore that's

01:41:43.693 --> 01:41:46.453
crazy if i i don't know it doesn't

01:41:46.654 --> 01:41:49.755
specify how they got this person's

01:41:49.954 --> 01:41:52.996
information or why they were part of this

01:41:53.055 --> 01:41:54.537
or and i mean i could be wrong

01:41:54.596 --> 01:41:56.337
it maybe maybe this was specifically

01:41:56.396 --> 01:41:59.078
targeted at that person but

01:42:00.173 --> 01:42:00.434
Yeah,

01:42:00.514 --> 01:42:02.076
it's kind of light on details on that,

01:42:02.136 --> 01:42:04.118
actually.

01:42:04.259 --> 01:42:05.740
Yeah, that is kind of unfortunate.

01:42:06.100 --> 01:42:07.523
I would have hoped there was more

01:42:07.542 --> 01:42:09.204
information specifically about that.

01:42:09.305 --> 01:42:10.987
But I think, you know,

01:42:11.207 --> 01:42:14.029
avoiding using Google services,

01:42:14.090 --> 01:42:15.551
like some people were in this thread,

01:42:15.572 --> 01:42:16.632
they were talking about, you know,

01:42:16.672 --> 01:42:18.395
avoiding using Google Maps and stuff.

01:42:18.855 --> 01:42:19.556
I think, you know...

01:42:21.037 --> 01:42:22.579
We could maybe touch a little bit on

01:42:23.560 --> 01:42:24.782
protest OPSEC.

01:42:24.841 --> 01:42:25.462
But generally,

01:42:25.481 --> 01:42:27.444
you don't really want to be using

01:42:27.684 --> 01:42:30.046
navigation things that are sending

01:42:30.087 --> 01:42:31.347
information to the cloud,

01:42:31.807 --> 01:42:34.551
because that location and your location at

01:42:34.591 --> 01:42:37.533
a protest could be recorded.

01:42:37.854 --> 01:42:39.315
And generally,

01:42:39.636 --> 01:42:41.938
it's a good idea to be on the

01:42:41.978 --> 01:42:42.538
safe side,

01:42:42.639 --> 01:42:44.501
even though you're completely within your

01:42:44.541 --> 01:42:45.201
right to do so.

01:42:45.942 --> 01:42:46.181
you know,

01:42:46.442 --> 01:42:48.382
it's better to be safer than sorry and

01:42:48.483 --> 01:42:50.823
not have your location tied back to you

01:42:50.882 --> 01:42:52.443
because this sort of thing can happen.

01:42:52.622 --> 01:42:54.863
Like ICE agents can subpoena your

01:42:54.904 --> 01:42:56.043
information from Google,

01:42:56.064 --> 01:42:56.944
like what the heck.

01:42:58.225 --> 01:43:01.265
But yeah, I think it goes without saying,

01:43:02.405 --> 01:43:03.645
if you're going to a protest,

01:43:03.826 --> 01:43:06.006
I would avoid bringing a phone entirely if

01:43:06.025 --> 01:43:06.506
you can.

01:43:06.645 --> 01:43:08.546
But I do realize some people might need

01:43:09.226 --> 01:43:12.110
communication methods and also mobile

01:43:12.131 --> 01:43:13.813
phones are quite good for recording any

01:43:13.872 --> 01:43:16.917
activity at the protest because there's

01:43:16.976 --> 01:43:19.921
always things that happen at protests

01:43:19.980 --> 01:43:22.543
which need to be recorded for

01:43:23.265 --> 01:43:24.086
transparency.

01:43:24.587 --> 01:43:27.170
So I think that's also another thing but

01:43:28.475 --> 01:43:30.497
definitely using like a de-Google device

01:43:30.577 --> 01:43:33.019
is going to reduce the amount of location

01:43:33.038 --> 01:43:33.618
information.

01:43:34.399 --> 01:43:36.701
But there's always concerns with,

01:43:36.720 --> 01:43:38.521
you know, cell tower triangulation,

01:43:38.542 --> 01:43:39.243
that sort of thing,

01:43:39.323 --> 01:43:40.743
especially these large events.

01:43:41.904 --> 01:43:44.865
So there's always risks, I guess.

01:43:45.247 --> 01:43:47.507
But I personally would just avoid taking a

01:43:47.528 --> 01:43:49.930
mobile phone entirely because it's

01:43:50.836 --> 01:43:51.176
you know,

01:43:51.195 --> 01:43:52.657
the separate devices you can use.

01:43:52.697 --> 01:43:54.618
Like you can bring a camera to record.

01:43:56.137 --> 01:43:58.439
I know some people use walkie-talkies and

01:43:58.479 --> 01:43:58.939
stuff.

01:43:59.659 --> 01:44:00.279
So I don't know.

01:44:00.479 --> 01:44:01.301
It's definitely...

01:44:02.869 --> 01:44:05.832
a tricky, uh, situation,

01:44:05.872 --> 01:44:09.494
especially when there's a lot of this, uh,

01:44:10.837 --> 01:44:11.737
subpoenas coming.

01:44:11.796 --> 01:44:13.979
And I do wonder, this says ICE subpoena,

01:44:14.019 --> 01:44:16.001
like I've been seeing information about,

01:44:16.301 --> 01:44:17.141
um,

01:44:17.162 --> 01:44:19.564
the validity of some of ICE's subpoenas.

01:44:19.623 --> 01:44:19.844
Like,

01:44:19.884 --> 01:44:22.086
are they as valid as a judicial like

01:44:22.145 --> 01:44:24.106
warrant or like a, like a, you know,

01:44:24.146 --> 01:44:25.769
I'm not really sure what the term is

01:44:25.809 --> 01:44:27.010
in, in the U S like a,

01:44:28.386 --> 01:44:31.171
Do you know what that is?

01:44:31.190 --> 01:44:31.811
So this article,

01:44:31.851 --> 01:44:32.813
I know what you're talking about.

01:44:33.814 --> 01:44:37.159
You're talking about, real quick,

01:44:37.180 --> 01:44:38.322
this article doesn't specify,

01:44:38.341 --> 01:44:40.043
but it says that they identified this guy

01:44:40.064 --> 01:44:41.707
through his Gmail account.

01:44:41.726 --> 01:44:42.927
So I think you're onto something with the

01:44:42.948 --> 01:44:43.970
geofence warrant thing.

01:44:44.957 --> 01:44:46.859
And this was – I think recently geofence

01:44:46.878 --> 01:44:48.760
warrants have been outlawed or at least

01:44:48.800 --> 01:44:49.581
reigned in a little bit.

01:44:49.980 --> 01:44:51.502
But this was like last – or two

01:44:51.542 --> 01:44:52.122
years ago now,

01:44:52.243 --> 01:44:54.243
so that was probably before that.

01:44:54.304 --> 01:44:55.145
But yeah,

01:44:55.164 --> 01:44:56.926
so basically there's two kinds of

01:44:57.525 --> 01:44:58.087
warrants.

01:44:58.207 --> 01:44:59.768
There's an administrative warrant,

01:45:00.408 --> 01:45:01.469
and I think the one you're talking about

01:45:01.488 --> 01:45:02.590
is called like a judge's warrant or

01:45:02.630 --> 01:45:02.930
something.

01:45:03.591 --> 01:45:06.033
And basically an administrative warrant

01:45:06.932 --> 01:45:08.194
never goes in front of a judge.

01:45:08.274 --> 01:45:09.255
It's basically –

01:45:10.902 --> 01:45:12.582
I mean, I'm not a lawyer, obviously,

01:45:12.622 --> 01:45:13.483
but from what I understand,

01:45:13.904 --> 01:45:16.145
it's basically just like a fancy

01:45:16.204 --> 01:45:16.604
letterhead.

01:45:17.265 --> 01:45:17.385
Like,

01:45:17.404 --> 01:45:19.445
it's really just ICE asking nicely with a

01:45:19.485 --> 01:45:20.466
fancy letterhead, like,

01:45:20.506 --> 01:45:21.487
please give us this data.

01:45:22.007 --> 01:45:24.168
And companies absolutely do not have to

01:45:24.189 --> 01:45:26.010
comply with that because a judge hasn't

01:45:26.050 --> 01:45:26.430
signed it.

01:45:26.489 --> 01:45:27.770
There's no actual, like,

01:45:28.110 --> 01:45:29.532
legal enforcement behind it.

01:45:30.091 --> 01:45:32.172
But –

01:45:32.573 --> 01:45:34.935
We have seen this in all the big

01:45:34.975 --> 01:45:35.475
tech companies.

01:45:35.574 --> 01:45:36.274
And to be fair,

01:45:36.314 --> 01:45:37.796
this is not unique to right now.

01:45:38.457 --> 01:45:40.018
All the big tech companies will always

01:45:40.057 --> 01:45:42.059
bend over backwards to suck up to

01:45:42.078 --> 01:45:44.319
whoever's in office because not to be too

01:45:44.340 --> 01:45:44.699
political,

01:45:44.739 --> 01:45:46.400
but like they're going to outlast them,

01:45:46.621 --> 01:45:46.862
right?

01:45:47.542 --> 01:45:48.082
In three years,

01:45:48.101 --> 01:45:48.983
Donald Trump's going to be gone.

01:45:50.514 --> 01:45:52.114
But Apple's still going to be here.

01:45:52.255 --> 01:45:53.175
Google's still going to be here.

01:45:53.295 --> 01:45:54.235
Meta's still going to be here.

01:45:54.555 --> 01:45:55.756
So to them, this is just a game.

01:45:55.856 --> 01:45:56.817
It's like, okay, whatever.

01:45:56.936 --> 01:45:57.117
Like,

01:45:57.417 --> 01:45:58.537
let's make this guy feel good about

01:45:58.557 --> 01:45:58.778
himself.

01:45:58.837 --> 01:45:59.637
Again, both parties.

01:45:59.658 --> 01:46:00.698
I'm not picking on Trump here.

01:46:00.998 --> 01:46:02.338
Let's make this guy feel good about

01:46:02.359 --> 01:46:03.899
himself for four years and then he'll shut

01:46:03.939 --> 01:46:04.881
up and go away and he won't be

01:46:04.921 --> 01:46:06.320
our problem anymore, four to eight years.

01:46:06.720 --> 01:46:08.021
And we'll just keep doing what we've been

01:46:08.042 --> 01:46:08.261
doing.

01:46:08.301 --> 01:46:09.662
This is business as usual for them.

01:46:09.762 --> 01:46:10.703
So yeah,

01:46:10.802 --> 01:46:12.703
they're not at all incentivized to protect

01:46:12.724 --> 01:46:13.104
your data.

01:46:13.163 --> 01:46:15.484
They're incentivized to not cause problems

01:46:15.545 --> 01:46:16.666
so that the government doesn't cause

01:46:16.706 --> 01:46:17.365
problems for them.

01:46:17.485 --> 01:46:18.947
It's a quid pro quo.

01:46:19.766 --> 01:46:22.128
That's a tongue twister, but yeah.

01:46:23.170 --> 01:46:23.369
But yeah,

01:46:23.390 --> 01:46:24.350
I've been seeing those articles you're

01:46:24.371 --> 01:46:24.951
talking about too.

01:46:25.492 --> 01:46:27.472
A lot of these article or these subpoenas

01:46:27.552 --> 01:46:29.795
don't have actual enforcement power behind

01:46:29.814 --> 01:46:29.914
them.

01:46:29.954 --> 01:46:31.596
It's just the government asking nicely and

01:46:31.917 --> 01:46:36.119
they're totally going with it because it's

01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:37.841
just easier for them.

01:46:37.881 --> 01:46:44.766
So yeah.

01:46:44.787 --> 01:46:45.707
Did you have anything else you wanted to

01:46:45.768 --> 01:46:48.069
add or should we move on to questions

01:46:48.109 --> 01:46:49.230
in the forum?

01:46:50.463 --> 01:46:50.623
Yeah,

01:46:50.663 --> 01:46:52.863
I think we should move on here to

01:46:52.963 --> 01:46:55.024
the questions from viewers.

01:46:55.064 --> 01:46:57.145
So we'll start with questions on our forum

01:46:57.305 --> 01:46:58.185
thread first.

01:46:58.385 --> 01:46:59.365
And that's firstly,

01:46:59.386 --> 01:47:01.426
we'll look at any comments that are left

01:47:01.466 --> 01:47:03.105
by some of our paying members.

01:47:03.326 --> 01:47:05.546
And you can become a member by visiting

01:47:05.587 --> 01:47:07.726
privacyguides.org and clicking the red

01:47:07.867 --> 01:47:10.127
heart icon in the top right hand corner

01:47:10.148 --> 01:47:10.768
of the page.

01:47:11.427 --> 01:47:11.988
And yeah,

01:47:12.167 --> 01:47:13.868
so we'll dive right into that forum

01:47:13.887 --> 01:47:14.108
thread.

01:47:14.148 --> 01:47:15.529
Is there anything you can see there, Nate,

01:47:15.548 --> 01:47:17.248
that pops out to you right now?

01:47:19.033 --> 01:47:21.274
So I checked in a little bit throughout

01:47:21.314 --> 01:47:21.755
the week.

01:47:22.496 --> 01:47:23.596
I haven't really been logging into the

01:47:23.617 --> 01:47:24.658
forum lately, to be honest,

01:47:24.698 --> 01:47:27.220
but I do occasionally check to see what

01:47:27.260 --> 01:47:30.462
kind of threads are pretty popular and

01:47:30.502 --> 01:47:31.623
what people are talking about.

01:47:32.404 --> 01:47:35.908
And somebody actually turned this into a

01:47:35.967 --> 01:47:36.307
question,

01:47:36.347 --> 01:47:38.009
so I guess we'll go ahead and discuss

01:47:38.050 --> 01:47:38.149
it.

01:47:38.270 --> 01:47:41.672
But there was a big discussion about...

01:47:43.722 --> 01:47:46.663
The term normie and whether or not that

01:47:46.743 --> 01:47:50.524
is a label that should be used.

01:47:53.225 --> 01:47:53.886
So, yeah,

01:47:54.087 --> 01:47:56.067
I'm I don't know how Jordan feels about

01:47:56.087 --> 01:47:56.327
this one,

01:47:56.346 --> 01:47:57.387
but I'm trying to move away from that

01:47:57.427 --> 01:47:58.047
term personally,

01:47:58.068 --> 01:48:00.769
because I do think it can intentionally or

01:48:00.809 --> 01:48:00.969
not.

01:48:01.029 --> 01:48:02.269
I think it can come off as very

01:48:02.309 --> 01:48:02.769
demeaning.

01:48:05.210 --> 01:48:07.310
And even if you're not talking to people

01:48:07.511 --> 01:48:09.310
who would fall under that category,

01:48:09.851 --> 01:48:10.912
I think it's just very demeaning.

01:48:12.466 --> 01:48:12.826
I don't know.

01:48:12.985 --> 01:48:13.846
It's kind of, you know,

01:48:13.947 --> 01:48:14.487
I always say like,

01:48:14.527 --> 01:48:15.667
don't put anything in a format you

01:48:15.688 --> 01:48:16.628
wouldn't want to be made public.

01:48:16.689 --> 01:48:16.889
Right.

01:48:16.908 --> 01:48:17.849
And so I wouldn't want to be caught

01:48:17.868 --> 01:48:18.710
with somebody like, oh,

01:48:18.729 --> 01:48:20.150
you had this private chat where you called

01:48:20.171 --> 01:48:20.631
me a normie.

01:48:20.671 --> 01:48:21.430
Like, that's really rude.

01:48:21.451 --> 01:48:22.332
That's really messed up.

01:48:22.372 --> 01:48:23.332
And, you know,

01:48:23.412 --> 01:48:26.494
I think it's just I talk about this

01:48:26.515 --> 01:48:26.854
a lot, too.

01:48:26.895 --> 01:48:27.935
I think people just have different

01:48:28.034 --> 01:48:28.435
interests.

01:48:28.475 --> 01:48:28.695
You know,

01:48:28.735 --> 01:48:30.176
some people are like super into cars and

01:48:30.197 --> 01:48:31.256
they can tell you everything about how a

01:48:31.317 --> 01:48:31.858
car works.

01:48:31.898 --> 01:48:33.958
And some people are super into sports and

01:48:34.238 --> 01:48:35.439
the Super Bowl after I just got done

01:48:35.479 --> 01:48:36.000
trashing that.

01:48:36.039 --> 01:48:36.980
But, you know,

01:48:37.121 --> 01:48:38.481
I think just because we're super,

01:48:38.542 --> 01:48:40.023
super into tech doesn't

01:48:40.708 --> 01:48:42.511
make everybody else in normie or make

01:48:42.530 --> 01:48:44.573
anybody like better than anyone else but

01:48:45.073 --> 01:48:46.914
um yeah it's it's a term i'm trying

01:48:46.935 --> 01:48:51.259
to move away from personally uh yeah i

01:48:51.298 --> 01:48:52.279
don't know if you have thoughts on that

01:48:53.060 --> 01:48:55.403
i think this is sort of falls down

01:48:55.443 --> 01:48:57.385
this interesting thing here where we say

01:48:57.425 --> 01:49:02.329
like uh you know what's normal like i

01:49:02.350 --> 01:49:03.872
don't know i think this is kind of

01:49:03.971 --> 01:49:05.172
a little bit uh

01:49:06.755 --> 01:49:08.695
boxing people into a certain thing.

01:49:08.957 --> 01:49:09.037
Um,

01:49:09.077 --> 01:49:10.738
I'm not really a fan of that idea.

01:49:10.858 --> 01:49:11.438
I think, you know,

01:49:12.238 --> 01:49:14.541
normal is kind of what even is that?

01:49:14.680 --> 01:49:15.841
Like that's, that's pretty,

01:49:15.862 --> 01:49:16.582
that's pretty broad.

01:49:16.622 --> 01:49:16.881
Right.

01:49:17.021 --> 01:49:18.944
And I think calling people,

01:49:19.797 --> 01:49:20.358
a normie.

01:49:21.498 --> 01:49:21.918
I don't know.

01:49:22.219 --> 01:49:23.158
I don't think you should say that to

01:49:23.198 --> 01:49:23.779
someone's face.

01:49:23.798 --> 01:49:25.039
Like I wouldn't like to be called a

01:49:25.100 --> 01:49:25.500
normie.

01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:26.859
Like that's not very nice.

01:49:27.079 --> 01:49:27.359
Um,

01:49:27.399 --> 01:49:31.161
so I always go for like less privacy

01:49:31.220 --> 01:49:33.561
conscious people or something like that.

01:49:33.761 --> 01:49:34.202
Um,

01:49:34.261 --> 01:49:35.603
so I always go for something that's a

01:49:35.622 --> 01:49:36.523
little bit more neutral.

01:49:36.563 --> 01:49:37.262
It's not, it has,

01:49:37.283 --> 01:49:39.823
doesn't have a negative connotation, um,

01:49:40.083 --> 01:49:41.663
or can be perceived in a negative way.

01:49:41.885 --> 01:49:42.385
It's true.

01:49:42.585 --> 01:49:44.965
Like if someone doesn't like aren't as

01:49:45.005 --> 01:49:46.365
concerned about their privacy,

01:49:46.426 --> 01:49:46.605
then

01:49:47.875 --> 01:49:49.576
they're less privacy conscious.

01:49:50.496 --> 01:49:52.676
So I think something like that, or just,

01:49:52.738 --> 01:49:56.038
you know, I don't know.

01:49:56.118 --> 01:49:58.260
I can't really think of any other way

01:49:58.300 --> 01:49:59.600
to address this, I guess,

01:49:59.661 --> 01:50:00.662
or address someone like that.

01:50:00.742 --> 01:50:02.403
But I think it's,

01:50:02.643 --> 01:50:04.103
it's sort of an othering,

01:50:04.384 --> 01:50:05.884
it's an othering thing.

01:50:05.923 --> 01:50:07.625
It's like trying to other somebody.

01:50:08.065 --> 01:50:09.645
And I'm not really a fan of that

01:50:09.685 --> 01:50:10.867
language personally.

01:50:13.609 --> 01:50:14.470
Yeah, I don't know if it's any better,

01:50:14.489 --> 01:50:15.930
but that's why I've started using the term

01:50:15.990 --> 01:50:18.552
mainstream users because it's not – I

01:50:18.752 --> 01:50:19.313
don't know.

01:50:19.332 --> 01:50:20.554
Maybe that's still not the best term,

01:50:20.573 --> 01:50:22.975
but I think I like yours less privacy

01:50:23.036 --> 01:50:25.798
conscious because it's more – when

01:50:25.819 --> 01:50:27.060
something goes mainstream and it catches

01:50:27.100 --> 01:50:27.920
on in the masses,

01:50:27.939 --> 01:50:29.461
there's a certain way that people use

01:50:29.480 --> 01:50:29.782
things,

01:50:29.801 --> 01:50:32.543
whether that's music or tech or something,

01:50:32.583 --> 01:50:34.425
and there's just a certain way that people

01:50:34.484 --> 01:50:39.278
interact with it where it's more –

01:50:37.082 --> 01:50:38.564
I guess it's more casual to them.

01:50:39.384 --> 01:50:41.006
These are all band tattoos on my arms,

01:50:41.145 --> 01:50:42.728
and I have met plenty of people that

01:50:42.747 --> 01:50:43.788
are into these bands,

01:50:44.328 --> 01:50:46.110
but not enough to get tattoos.

01:50:46.851 --> 01:50:49.635
So it doesn't make me any better than

01:50:49.654 --> 01:50:49.814
them.

01:50:49.854 --> 01:50:51.015
I'm not more of a super fan,

01:50:51.055 --> 01:50:52.016
especially some of these bands.

01:50:52.096 --> 01:50:53.118
I've met people that are like,

01:50:53.359 --> 01:50:54.199
I don't even know all the words,

01:50:54.220 --> 01:50:54.680
and you do.

01:50:54.819 --> 01:50:57.783
So it's very, I don't know.

01:50:57.823 --> 01:50:59.145
It's just trying to acknowledge, I guess,

01:50:59.164 --> 01:50:59.324
that

01:51:00.921 --> 01:51:02.403
Yeah, it's just trying to remove that.

01:51:02.682 --> 01:51:03.764
I don't really like that term either,

01:51:03.804 --> 01:51:05.725
especially also because I also just don't

01:51:05.744 --> 01:51:07.105
like anything that comes out of deep

01:51:07.166 --> 01:51:08.426
internet culture, to be honest.

01:51:08.487 --> 01:51:09.667
And I feel like that term does.

01:51:09.868 --> 01:51:11.569
But yeah,

01:51:12.010 --> 01:51:13.551
trying to find something more neutral so

01:51:13.570 --> 01:51:14.912
that people don't feel like I'm talking

01:51:14.952 --> 01:51:16.212
down to them would be really nice.

01:51:18.274 --> 01:51:18.573
Yeah,

01:51:18.753 --> 01:51:22.037
I'd say that's probably a good direction

01:51:22.077 --> 01:51:23.337
to go generally.

01:51:23.898 --> 01:51:25.179
So there was quite a lot of discussion

01:51:25.198 --> 01:51:27.079
in that thread around, you know,

01:51:27.100 --> 01:51:27.900
is this a good idea,

01:51:27.921 --> 01:51:28.720
is this a bad idea?

01:51:28.900 --> 01:51:30.521
I guess we've sort of shared our thoughts

01:51:30.582 --> 01:51:31.002
on this.

01:51:32.543 --> 01:51:34.404
And there was another person who mentioned

01:51:34.864 --> 01:51:38.568
there was an age verification bypass tool.

01:51:39.929 --> 01:51:41.208
I mean,

01:51:41.269 --> 01:51:42.470
I'm not sure if we can really comment

01:51:42.510 --> 01:51:42.871
on that.

01:51:43.190 --> 01:51:46.872
That might be slightly legally grey area,

01:51:46.932 --> 01:51:47.332
I would say.

01:51:48.854 --> 01:51:49.414
It's there.

01:51:50.095 --> 01:51:51.676
You can use it if you want.

01:51:52.976 --> 01:51:54.078
We're not going to promote that,

01:51:54.198 --> 01:51:56.380
but that's the thing that you can do.

01:51:56.819 --> 01:52:00.403
I think it's only going to cause more

01:52:00.643 --> 01:52:03.043
harsher restrictions in the future because

01:52:03.545 --> 01:52:04.945
as soon as they figure out people using

01:52:04.966 --> 01:52:05.506
these tools,

01:52:05.525 --> 01:52:07.948
they're going to require ID documents for

01:52:08.007 --> 01:52:08.448
everybody.

01:52:08.667 --> 01:52:10.829
They're not going to do these age

01:52:10.909 --> 01:52:12.230
estimation techniques anymore.

01:52:12.871 --> 01:52:15.493
So I think it's, you know,

01:52:15.872 --> 01:52:16.833
get in while you can,

01:52:17.094 --> 01:52:19.055
but I think this is only going to

01:52:19.095 --> 01:52:21.757
get worse if there's people bypassing it.

01:52:22.917 --> 01:52:23.479
And, of course,

01:52:23.498 --> 01:52:24.439
there's always going to be people

01:52:24.479 --> 01:52:25.180
bypassing it.

01:52:25.220 --> 01:52:27.641
So it's kind of inevitable that it becomes

01:52:27.981 --> 01:52:30.423
ID documents or not.

01:52:31.725 --> 01:52:33.305
So I think that's the direction things are

01:52:33.326 --> 01:52:33.706
going in.

01:52:33.845 --> 01:52:34.627
But, I mean,

01:52:35.027 --> 01:52:40.810
it certainly is a work in progress.

01:52:40.951 --> 01:52:41.212
Yeah.

01:52:43.069 --> 01:52:43.750
I was just going to say,

01:52:43.949 --> 01:52:45.493
I only saw it in one place,

01:52:45.792 --> 01:52:47.055
so I don't know how true it is,

01:52:47.135 --> 01:52:49.438
but apparently Discord is talking about

01:52:49.498 --> 01:52:52.984
switching their ID verification service to

01:52:53.003 --> 01:52:53.725
a different provider.

01:52:54.255 --> 01:52:56.155
specifically in response to this script

01:52:56.176 --> 01:52:56.996
that you're talking about.

01:52:57.775 --> 01:52:59.777
And like I said, I don't even know,

01:52:59.796 --> 01:53:01.176
would Discord have a way of knowing

01:53:01.237 --> 01:53:04.257
potentially who used it and who used the

01:53:04.278 --> 01:53:06.038
script versus who genuinely used the

01:53:06.078 --> 01:53:08.418
service that it's tricking and reversing

01:53:08.479 --> 01:53:09.439
that?

01:53:09.899 --> 01:53:13.461
Or would that make them more likely to

01:53:13.501 --> 01:53:15.180
flag you as somebody who needs to age

01:53:15.201 --> 01:53:16.662
verify because you tried to use this

01:53:16.681 --> 01:53:16.981
script?

01:53:17.042 --> 01:53:17.761
Maybe you're a minor.

01:53:19.122 --> 01:53:19.342
Yeah,

01:53:19.422 --> 01:53:22.444
I feel like it could backfire for sure.

01:53:22.484 --> 01:53:22.623
So...

01:53:24.243 --> 01:53:28.524
yeah um real quick before we move on

01:53:28.564 --> 01:53:30.725
to other questions um when they were

01:53:30.744 --> 01:53:33.506
having this normie discussion uh one one

01:53:33.546 --> 01:53:36.367
person said uh they said maybe because

01:53:36.386 --> 01:53:37.686
somebody said you know this is the reason

01:53:37.707 --> 01:53:39.106
that privacy guides in the community exist

01:53:39.466 --> 01:53:41.228
to spread tech awareness to those who

01:53:41.247 --> 01:53:43.948
don't yet know or care and uh somebody

01:53:44.007 --> 01:53:45.328
else said you know maybe someday we'll be

01:53:45.347 --> 01:53:46.649
able to reach some people but most of

01:53:46.668 --> 01:53:48.708
the people said most of the normies won't

01:53:48.748 --> 01:53:49.868
even hear about this community

01:53:49.929 --> 01:53:51.350
unfortunately too busy with their lives i

01:53:52.250 --> 01:53:52.470
i mean

01:53:54.554 --> 01:53:55.213
I want to make it clear,

01:53:55.293 --> 01:53:56.614
I don't think it's everybody's job to

01:53:56.654 --> 01:53:57.275
teach everybody,

01:53:58.275 --> 01:53:59.617
especially in all kinds of subjects.

01:53:59.657 --> 01:54:02.859
But this is why we ask you guys

01:54:02.878 --> 01:54:05.239
to share videos, share social media posts.

01:54:05.980 --> 01:54:07.542
Look for those opportunities when somebody

01:54:07.561 --> 01:54:08.481
is like, oh,

01:54:09.363 --> 01:54:10.483
I'm having a hard time remembering

01:54:10.523 --> 01:54:10.963
passwords.

01:54:10.984 --> 01:54:12.003
There's too many passwords.

01:54:12.345 --> 01:54:13.765
Send them the Privacy Guides page about

01:54:13.805 --> 01:54:14.746
password managers.

01:54:14.945 --> 01:54:16.247
Somebody asks you about VPNs,

01:54:16.287 --> 01:54:17.807
send them the page about VPNs.

01:54:18.528 --> 01:54:19.929
Just look for those little opportunities

01:54:19.969 --> 01:54:21.570
to kind of spread the word, I think,

01:54:21.690 --> 01:54:23.893
because you don't want to be too heavy

01:54:23.912 --> 01:54:24.372
handed with it.

01:54:24.393 --> 01:54:24.912
But yeah, you're right.

01:54:25.113 --> 01:54:27.055
If we just depend on people to magically

01:54:27.095 --> 01:54:28.216
find their way to the forum or to

01:54:28.235 --> 01:54:30.078
privacy guides, like some people will,

01:54:30.398 --> 01:54:33.020
but a lot of people won't without a

01:54:33.039 --> 01:54:33.961
little bit of a nudge and a little

01:54:33.980 --> 01:54:34.381
bit of help.

01:54:34.680 --> 01:54:36.882
So yeah,

01:54:36.903 --> 01:54:37.743
I just wanted to address that one.

01:54:38.569 --> 01:54:39.091
Exactly.

01:54:39.411 --> 01:54:39.671
Yeah,

01:54:39.690 --> 01:54:41.613
there was one person at the end of

01:54:41.634 --> 01:54:45.898
this forum thread under the username me,

01:54:46.057 --> 01:54:48.761
and they had some questions around what

01:54:48.782 --> 01:54:49.521
we're talking about,

01:54:49.682 --> 01:54:50.823
about the Discord stuff.

01:54:51.744 --> 01:54:52.546
So first question was,

01:54:52.565 --> 01:54:54.528
do you think Discord is testing the waters

01:54:54.547 --> 01:54:55.689
for ID verification?

01:54:55.908 --> 01:54:57.190
We kind of talked about that before.

01:54:59.252 --> 01:54:59.673
Yes,

01:55:00.014 --> 01:55:02.756
I think they're going to move towards that

01:55:03.056 --> 01:55:03.636
eventually,

01:55:04.118 --> 01:55:05.618
especially because people keep bypassing

01:55:05.658 --> 01:55:05.798
it.

01:55:07.000 --> 01:55:08.962
And I don't think like age estimation

01:55:09.021 --> 01:55:11.304
technology is very good because like we

01:55:11.323 --> 01:55:12.985
talked about before, it's kind of racist.

01:55:13.405 --> 01:55:14.287
It's kind of sexist.

01:55:14.346 --> 01:55:14.966
It doesn't really...

01:55:15.908 --> 01:55:18.171
equally verify people based on their

01:55:18.211 --> 01:55:20.432
appearance like it's kind of problematic

01:55:20.472 --> 01:55:22.836
like that also you're just scanning

01:55:22.855 --> 01:55:25.279
people's faces which you know biometric

01:55:25.878 --> 01:55:27.881
fingerprints are kind of like it's hard to

01:55:27.942 --> 01:55:30.064
change your face like you only have one

01:55:30.104 --> 01:55:30.885
face and

01:55:32.632 --> 01:55:33.694
It's like your fingerprint, right?

01:55:33.734 --> 01:55:35.734
Like it's identifiable,

01:55:35.835 --> 01:55:37.114
extremely identifiable.

01:55:37.255 --> 01:55:38.256
You can't change it.

01:55:38.796 --> 01:55:40.396
That's a problem.

01:55:40.476 --> 01:55:41.837
Especially because, you know,

01:55:41.858 --> 01:55:42.837
these companies are saying,

01:55:43.639 --> 01:55:44.238
we'll delete it.

01:55:44.279 --> 01:55:44.738
Don't worry.

01:55:44.779 --> 01:55:45.840
We'll delete it straight after.

01:55:45.880 --> 01:55:47.619
And it's like, all right, well,

01:55:48.680 --> 01:55:49.320
I guess we'll see.

01:55:53.020 --> 01:55:53.301
Yeah.

01:55:53.320 --> 01:55:53.961
Pinky promise.

01:55:54.001 --> 01:55:55.341
Right.

01:55:55.442 --> 01:55:57.842
I actually I want to point out, though,

01:55:57.903 --> 01:55:59.163
when you were saying like you can't change

01:55:59.184 --> 01:55:59.604
your face.

01:56:00.083 --> 01:56:01.765
I read that that's actually how some

01:56:01.805 --> 01:56:03.945
people are getting around this in like

01:56:04.046 --> 01:56:05.645
other places where age verification has

01:56:05.666 --> 01:56:06.367
already been enforced,

01:56:06.386 --> 01:56:09.347
like in the UK is I'm assuming mostly

01:56:09.387 --> 01:56:10.587
women because, you know,

01:56:10.667 --> 01:56:12.448
women generally tend to be better with

01:56:12.469 --> 01:56:12.788
makeup.

01:56:13.208 --> 01:56:14.449
They're putting on makeup to make

01:56:14.470 --> 01:56:16.091
themselves look older than they really

01:56:16.171 --> 01:56:16.291
are.

01:56:17.612 --> 01:56:19.453
and i know i've i've definitely seen i

01:56:19.493 --> 01:56:20.673
don't know about y'all but my wife has

01:56:20.713 --> 01:56:22.496
shown me videos on tiktok of somebody

01:56:22.536 --> 01:56:25.538
who's like very masculine guy and then

01:56:25.578 --> 01:56:26.960
puts on makeup and it's like the most

01:56:27.020 --> 01:56:28.621
beautiful woman you've ever seen or vice

01:56:28.640 --> 01:56:31.823
versa and so like yeah just adding to

01:56:31.863 --> 01:56:32.925
your point about like this isn't gonna

01:56:32.965 --> 01:56:34.606
work and i understand that not everybody

01:56:34.627 --> 01:56:35.707
can do that i sure can't do that

01:56:35.728 --> 01:56:36.988
i don't know the first i know what

01:56:37.029 --> 01:56:38.630
mascara is i know what eyeliner is i

01:56:38.649 --> 01:56:40.452
know what lipstick is that's the extent of

01:56:40.492 --> 01:56:41.212
my makeup knowledge

01:56:41.672 --> 01:56:43.994
So obviously, not everybody can do that.

01:56:44.015 --> 01:56:45.996
But it just goes to show how this

01:56:46.456 --> 01:56:48.676
trying to guess it with biometrics is

01:56:48.818 --> 01:56:49.738
horribly flawed.

01:56:50.439 --> 01:56:51.479
And yeah,

01:56:51.519 --> 01:56:53.560
it's probably they're going to have to

01:56:53.720 --> 01:56:55.742
tighten it up, which I'm not happy about.

01:56:55.801 --> 01:56:56.261
But yeah.

01:56:57.502 --> 01:57:00.545
yeah they'll be releasing the uh the

01:57:00.564 --> 01:57:02.666
you'll have to do a uh a blood

01:57:02.706 --> 01:57:04.828
donation you'll have to do a you'll have

01:57:04.847 --> 01:57:06.809
to test your cells to make sure to

01:57:06.849 --> 01:57:08.310
see how old you are we've partnered with

01:57:08.409 --> 01:57:12.653
and me i don't know hopefully not that's

01:57:12.672 --> 01:57:14.274
like a black mirror episode or something

01:57:15.034 --> 01:57:18.817
um but uh so many headlines now we're

01:57:18.936 --> 01:57:20.377
once black mirror episodes and i'm not

01:57:20.417 --> 01:57:21.378
even being sarcastic

01:57:22.076 --> 01:57:23.037
It makes me so mad.

01:57:23.837 --> 01:57:25.000
It is kind of unfortunate.

01:57:25.119 --> 01:57:26.501
And I guess the next question that me

01:57:26.541 --> 01:57:27.162
had was,

01:57:27.442 --> 01:57:29.083
do you think this will affect Discord user

01:57:29.104 --> 01:57:30.506
base in any significant way?

01:57:32.108 --> 01:57:33.269
I'm a, I guess,

01:57:33.389 --> 01:57:34.149
I don't know if this is the right

01:57:34.189 --> 01:57:35.192
word, nihilist.

01:57:35.652 --> 01:57:38.135
I don't think this is going to basically,

01:57:38.154 --> 01:57:39.176
it is going to put a little bit

01:57:39.195 --> 01:57:40.077
of a dent, I think.

01:57:41.260 --> 01:57:42.801
Like at the start,

01:57:42.881 --> 01:57:43.721
it's going to cause a little bit of

01:57:43.782 --> 01:57:44.061
a dent.

01:57:44.082 --> 01:57:44.622
Like right now,

01:57:44.681 --> 01:57:45.762
there's definitely people leaving.

01:57:46.302 --> 01:57:48.244
But I think it's the problem with these

01:57:48.265 --> 01:57:49.324
community things, right?

01:57:49.364 --> 01:57:51.646
Because it's fine if you move.

01:57:51.726 --> 01:57:52.908
I don't know if anyone here has done

01:57:52.927 --> 01:57:54.628
this before, but people have been like,

01:57:55.149 --> 01:57:55.609
that's it.

01:57:55.670 --> 01:57:56.670
I'm moving to Signal.

01:57:56.810 --> 01:57:58.110
I'm ditching WhatsApp forever.

01:57:58.570 --> 01:58:00.131
And nobody else follows you.

01:58:01.012 --> 01:58:02.394
you're going to go back to WhatsApp.

01:58:03.333 --> 01:58:04.234
It's kind of the problem.

01:58:04.613 --> 01:58:07.755
You need everybody to be up and want

01:58:07.774 --> 01:58:08.836
to do that as well.

01:58:08.996 --> 01:58:11.417
And I just don't think that it's

01:58:11.516 --> 01:58:15.158
particularly easy to just up and move your

01:58:15.177 --> 01:58:16.998
entire community to a different platform.

01:58:17.118 --> 01:58:20.060
And people are very resistant to change,

01:58:20.100 --> 01:58:21.680
especially when everyone's been enjoying

01:58:21.720 --> 01:58:23.461
Discord since twenty sixteen.

01:58:23.801 --> 01:58:27.561
They're enjoying it apart from the age

01:58:27.582 --> 01:58:28.622
verification stuff.

01:58:28.682 --> 01:58:28.863
So

01:58:30.426 --> 01:58:30.766
I don't know.

01:58:30.926 --> 01:58:32.189
There's always people who are very

01:58:32.248 --> 01:58:33.909
critical of Discord,

01:58:33.930 --> 01:58:35.310
but I think they are very much a

01:58:35.350 --> 01:58:37.292
vocal minority on Reddit,

01:58:37.412 --> 01:58:38.793
on internet platforms.

01:58:38.833 --> 01:58:39.994
I think a lot of people just use

01:58:40.034 --> 01:58:41.336
the platform and don't really care.

01:58:41.657 --> 01:58:46.740
So that's my nihilistic opinion, I guess.

01:58:47.322 --> 01:58:48.422
Sadly, I agree with you.

01:58:48.582 --> 01:58:49.382
And I have seen,

01:58:49.502 --> 01:58:50.363
I think it was even in that Ars

01:58:50.404 --> 01:58:51.505
Technica article we showed at the

01:58:51.524 --> 01:58:51.845
beginning,

01:58:53.502 --> 01:58:56.503
Discord explicitly said that they expect

01:58:56.645 --> 01:58:57.805
that some people are going to be upset

01:58:57.824 --> 01:58:58.225
and leave.

01:58:59.086 --> 01:59:00.747
And real quick,

01:59:00.908 --> 01:59:01.707
I kind of want to go back to

01:59:01.747 --> 01:59:02.929
something you said, I think,

01:59:02.948 --> 01:59:03.989
when we were having that discussion.

01:59:04.430 --> 01:59:05.912
If you're a creator of any kind,

01:59:05.971 --> 01:59:07.893
which I know is probably not most people

01:59:07.912 --> 01:59:08.193
watching,

01:59:08.212 --> 01:59:09.073
but if you are some kind of a

01:59:09.094 --> 01:59:09.333
creator,

01:59:09.354 --> 01:59:11.855
and most of our viewers probably have

01:59:11.876 --> 01:59:12.617
already thought about this,

01:59:12.697 --> 01:59:14.398
but if you are a content creator of

01:59:14.417 --> 01:59:14.838
any kind,

01:59:15.478 --> 01:59:16.578
You, in my opinion,

01:59:16.798 --> 01:59:18.479
you desperately need to be thinking about

01:59:18.539 --> 01:59:21.922
diversifying your community because this

01:59:21.962 --> 01:59:22.863
could happen anywhere.

01:59:23.243 --> 01:59:24.505
Reddit has already done this once.

01:59:24.904 --> 01:59:26.025
Discord is now doing this.

01:59:26.666 --> 01:59:27.827
Facebook has done this like five hundred

01:59:27.867 --> 01:59:28.106
times.

01:59:28.646 --> 01:59:30.609
Twitter could do this like any platform

01:59:30.649 --> 01:59:32.449
you're using could change their terms of

01:59:32.470 --> 01:59:33.051
service tomorrow.

01:59:33.131 --> 01:59:34.030
And it just sucks to suck.

01:59:34.372 --> 01:59:36.972
So like having parallel communities,

01:59:37.012 --> 01:59:38.494
having Discord and Matrix,

01:59:38.555 --> 01:59:39.135
having Facebook,

01:59:39.715 --> 01:59:42.117
Facebook or Twitter and Mastodon having,

01:59:42.256 --> 01:59:43.838
you know, like at Privacy Guides,

01:59:43.899 --> 01:59:46.220
we have Ghost as one way to support

01:59:46.280 --> 01:59:46.381
us.

01:59:46.740 --> 01:59:48.082
We have YouTube subscriptions.

01:59:48.162 --> 01:59:49.863
We have cryptocurrency,

01:59:49.984 --> 01:59:52.324
like putting all your eggs in one basket.

01:59:52.725 --> 01:59:54.006
We often talk about that in terms of

01:59:54.027 --> 01:59:54.447
our data.

01:59:54.546 --> 01:59:56.349
Like some people, rightfully so,

01:59:57.655 --> 01:59:58.516
I'll keep this a short rant.

01:59:58.877 --> 02:00:00.797
Some people don't want to put everything

02:00:00.818 --> 02:00:01.319
in Proton,

02:00:01.679 --> 02:00:02.719
not because they don't trust Proton

02:00:02.759 --> 02:00:03.239
necessarily,

02:00:03.279 --> 02:00:04.501
but because that's all your eggs in one

02:00:04.520 --> 02:00:05.860
basket, your email, your VPN,

02:00:05.881 --> 02:00:07.021
your password, your cloud storage,

02:00:07.402 --> 02:00:08.182
totally valid.

02:00:08.622 --> 02:00:10.604
So same thing if you are in any

02:00:10.644 --> 02:00:12.204
kind of a situation where you have control

02:00:12.265 --> 02:00:12.926
over your community,

02:00:13.466 --> 02:00:14.345
whether you're a creator,

02:00:14.365 --> 02:00:16.247
whether you're an advisor to somebody,

02:00:16.766 --> 02:00:18.106
definitely recommend like, hey,

02:00:18.466 --> 02:00:19.646
we don't necessarily have to leave

02:00:19.686 --> 02:00:20.046
Discord,

02:00:20.067 --> 02:00:21.467
but what if we did spring up a

02:00:21.507 --> 02:00:22.828
Matrix server and start building over

02:00:22.847 --> 02:00:23.368
there too?

02:00:23.847 --> 02:00:25.047
And then when something like this happens,

02:00:25.068 --> 02:00:26.349
you're not rebuilding from scratch and

02:00:26.368 --> 02:00:27.689
you're not trying to convince everybody.

02:00:28.088 --> 02:00:29.208
And it'll be a whole lot easier too

02:00:29.229 --> 02:00:29.948
when people find out.

02:00:29.988 --> 02:00:31.029
It's like, you know, hey,

02:00:31.048 --> 02:00:32.029
if you're pissed off at Discord,

02:00:32.090 --> 02:00:33.350
we have a parallel community.

02:00:33.390 --> 02:00:34.510
Like, like, like, like, like, like, like,

02:00:34.529 --> 02:00:34.770
like, like,

02:00:41.137 --> 02:00:42.037
The last thing I wanted to add is

02:00:42.398 --> 02:00:43.198
I don't think a lot of people are

02:00:43.219 --> 02:00:43.599
going to leave,

02:00:43.639 --> 02:00:45.039
but one thing I think might be effective,

02:00:45.140 --> 02:00:46.520
I've seen a lot of people canceling their

02:00:46.541 --> 02:00:46.940
Nitro.

02:00:47.320 --> 02:00:50.703
And I think that might be a great

02:00:50.722 --> 02:00:52.404
compromise for a lot of people who

02:00:52.505 --> 02:00:52.805
maybe...

02:00:54.426 --> 02:00:55.926
maybe don't feel like matrix is a good

02:00:55.947 --> 02:00:56.487
alternative.

02:00:56.887 --> 02:00:58.269
Um, canceling your nitro.

02:00:58.408 --> 02:01:00.890
If enough people do it will absolutely,

02:01:01.570 --> 02:01:02.530
uh, scare discord.

02:01:02.731 --> 02:01:05.273
And I mean, I get it.

02:01:05.432 --> 02:01:06.333
I don't pay for nitro,

02:01:06.354 --> 02:01:07.675
but there have been times I'm like, man,

02:01:07.715 --> 02:01:08.475
I kind of wish I did.

02:01:08.534 --> 02:01:09.876
Cause that would be a really nice feature,

02:01:10.296 --> 02:01:11.716
but you can still use it without nitro.

02:01:12.158 --> 02:01:14.198
And, and again, if enough people do it,

02:01:15.020 --> 02:01:16.300
you can kind of eat your cake and

02:01:16.319 --> 02:01:18.322
have it to where you can send a

02:01:18.362 --> 02:01:19.882
message without having to fully leave the

02:01:19.903 --> 02:01:20.323
platform.

02:01:20.622 --> 02:01:21.583
I don't think it would be as extreme

02:01:21.623 --> 02:01:23.185
as everybody leaving, but yeah,

02:01:23.618 --> 02:01:24.819
Yeah, I don't know.

02:01:24.838 --> 02:01:25.719
I just wanted to throw that out there

02:01:25.759 --> 02:01:26.099
personally.

02:01:27.260 --> 02:01:28.640
I think, yeah,

02:01:28.761 --> 02:01:30.502
it's good if you are a Nitro subscriber.

02:01:30.921 --> 02:01:32.662
The issue that they get you with that

02:01:33.203 --> 02:01:35.364
because there's a badge for being

02:01:35.425 --> 02:01:37.586
subscribed to Nitro for a certain amount

02:01:37.626 --> 02:01:38.006
of time.

02:01:38.046 --> 02:01:39.506
And if you cancel your subscription,

02:01:40.186 --> 02:01:41.148
it starts over again.

02:01:41.608 --> 02:01:43.208
So I think they've kind of built in

02:01:43.328 --> 02:01:43.970
all these little...

02:01:44.850 --> 02:01:47.430
uh ways to keep people on the platform

02:01:47.810 --> 02:01:50.011
uh to keep paying for that subscription

02:01:50.752 --> 02:01:52.193
personally i don't think i could use

02:01:52.233 --> 02:01:54.293
discord without nitro i can't go without

02:01:54.333 --> 02:01:55.613
my stickers i don't know what i'm gonna

02:01:55.634 --> 02:01:58.095
do um but yeah i'm lucky i'm not

02:01:58.154 --> 02:02:00.395
on that platform anymore and i'm on other

02:02:00.475 --> 02:02:02.636
ones that stickers aren't a paid feature

02:02:02.676 --> 02:02:06.078
because why should they be that's silly um

02:02:06.877 --> 02:02:07.899
but yeah i think

02:02:09.175 --> 02:02:10.475
you know, like Nate said,

02:02:10.534 --> 02:02:12.876
setting up alternatives for your

02:02:12.895 --> 02:02:13.296
community.

02:02:13.355 --> 02:02:14.996
I think a lot of people don't really,

02:02:15.817 --> 02:02:16.016
you know,

02:02:16.077 --> 02:02:17.577
a lot of people just use Discord for

02:02:17.596 --> 02:02:19.216
like chatting to their friends and like

02:02:19.296 --> 02:02:20.137
gaming stuff.

02:02:20.337 --> 02:02:23.057
And I think move that group chat over

02:02:23.078 --> 02:02:23.537
to Signal.

02:02:24.097 --> 02:02:24.679
Works fine.

02:02:25.279 --> 02:02:27.578
Move that group chat,

02:02:27.599 --> 02:02:29.859
move it over to Signal or Matrix or

02:02:30.739 --> 02:02:32.501
Any of the other recommendations we have,

02:02:33.381 --> 02:02:35.082
I don't think it will be a terrible

02:02:35.122 --> 02:02:35.722
experience.

02:02:36.403 --> 02:02:38.104
And I think you'll avoid a lot of

02:02:38.123 --> 02:02:39.765
the awful stuff with Discord.

02:02:40.265 --> 02:02:43.807
I think a lot of times Discord is

02:02:43.847 --> 02:02:45.228
in a position where they can kind of

02:02:45.408 --> 02:02:47.649
leverage things and do crappy stuff

02:02:47.710 --> 02:02:49.350
because everyone's there and they don't

02:02:49.371 --> 02:02:49.970
want to move.

02:02:50.551 --> 02:02:52.592
So this is another instance of them being

02:02:52.632 --> 02:02:54.673
like, well, too bad.

02:02:55.094 --> 02:02:56.034
This is our platform.

02:02:56.234 --> 02:02:57.255
We're going to enforce this.

02:02:59.318 --> 02:03:03.020
And people have been going on about how

02:03:03.081 --> 02:03:04.422
crap Discord has been going.

02:03:05.122 --> 02:03:07.845
They moved all their apps to web apps,

02:03:08.326 --> 02:03:09.186
even on mobile.

02:03:09.948 --> 02:03:11.649
And people were really unhappy with the

02:03:11.668 --> 02:03:12.310
performance.

02:03:12.369 --> 02:03:13.990
People were saying there's loads of bugs.

02:03:15.393 --> 02:03:17.314
And I think it's...

02:03:18.628 --> 02:03:23.010
Discord doesn't really care about their

02:03:23.130 --> 02:03:25.149
users because the web app is,

02:03:25.670 --> 02:03:26.990
let's all admit,

02:03:27.270 --> 02:03:29.070
it's much easier to develop a web app

02:03:29.091 --> 02:03:30.131
than doing native apps.

02:03:30.671 --> 02:03:33.532
So I think they care about the money.

02:03:33.631 --> 02:03:34.212
They care about,

02:03:34.271 --> 02:03:35.551
like Nate said at the start,

02:03:35.591 --> 02:03:38.113
this is about them getting their public

02:03:39.273 --> 02:03:43.014
IPO completed for the most amount of

02:03:43.054 --> 02:03:43.213
money.

02:03:43.234 --> 02:03:44.594
Yeah.

02:03:44.673 --> 02:03:44.854
Yeah.

02:03:47.134 --> 02:03:48.064
Yeah, and real quick, just to...

02:03:49.957 --> 02:03:51.658
You keep mentioning small groups and

02:03:51.957 --> 02:03:52.559
chats.

02:03:52.819 --> 02:03:53.859
I agree a hundred percent.

02:03:53.939 --> 02:03:55.560
If the only thing you really use Discord

02:03:55.579 --> 02:03:57.081
for is to keep up with a handful

02:03:57.121 --> 02:03:58.902
of friends or all the servers you're in

02:03:58.942 --> 02:04:01.302
or small servers with you and ten of

02:04:01.323 --> 02:04:01.823
your friends,

02:04:03.083 --> 02:04:04.864
Signal will work perfectly for that.

02:04:05.005 --> 02:04:07.046
Even Matrix will work perfectly for that.

02:04:07.926 --> 02:04:09.327
The challenges really start to come in

02:04:09.346 --> 02:04:10.387
when you have these big,

02:04:10.488 --> 02:04:12.689
large public communities if you're a

02:04:12.729 --> 02:04:13.828
content creator or something.

02:04:14.449 --> 02:04:16.490
I think Matrix will be a bigger ask

02:04:16.511 --> 02:04:17.331
and even Signal, I think,

02:04:17.350 --> 02:04:18.692
would be a really tall order there.

02:04:19.271 --> 02:04:19.591
But yeah,

02:04:19.631 --> 02:04:20.672
if it's just like you and a few

02:04:20.693 --> 02:04:21.974
of your friends in some group chats or

02:04:21.993 --> 02:04:23.635
some one-to-one chats, like, yeah.

02:04:24.336 --> 02:04:25.195
Signal works great.

02:04:25.235 --> 02:04:27.858
Matrix works great.

02:04:27.877 --> 02:04:28.838
SimpleX works great.

02:04:28.878 --> 02:04:29.038
Like,

02:04:29.118 --> 02:04:30.180
a lot of the stuff we talk about,

02:04:30.760 --> 02:04:32.240
we promote on the website will work just

02:04:32.261 --> 02:04:32.541
fine.

02:04:34.823 --> 02:04:36.283
One more quick thing, not to, like,

02:04:36.703 --> 02:04:37.864
give everybody all the advice,

02:04:37.904 --> 02:04:39.046
but one thing that occurred to me while

02:04:39.065 --> 02:04:40.226
you were talking is also, like,

02:04:40.386 --> 02:04:42.028
you could set up on your own as

02:04:42.047 --> 02:04:43.009
a fan, you could set up, like,

02:04:43.029 --> 02:04:43.748
a fan community.

02:04:43.969 --> 02:04:44.128
Like,

02:04:44.288 --> 02:04:47.150
I've seen or I've known of discords that,

02:04:47.190 --> 02:04:47.412
like,

02:04:48.152 --> 02:04:50.113
were set up as a fan run community.

02:04:50.292 --> 02:04:52.132
And then once that content creator got to

02:04:52.153 --> 02:04:52.752
a certain size,

02:04:52.792 --> 02:04:53.953
they kind of discovered it and they were

02:04:53.974 --> 02:04:54.394
like, oh,

02:04:54.934 --> 02:04:56.253
I already have a community on Discord.

02:04:56.354 --> 02:04:57.095
I didn't even know that.

02:04:57.435 --> 02:04:57.895
And of course,

02:04:57.914 --> 02:04:59.095
because all the moderators were fans,

02:04:59.114 --> 02:04:59.975
they were like, yeah, come on in.

02:04:59.994 --> 02:05:00.735
We'll make you an admin.

02:05:00.756 --> 02:05:02.435
We'll like treat you like royalty.

02:05:02.475 --> 02:05:04.556
And so it's, I mean, it's a stretch.

02:05:04.716 --> 02:05:05.317
I will admit that.

02:05:05.777 --> 02:05:07.597
But if you go start your own parallel

02:05:07.637 --> 02:05:09.257
fan group on matrix and it gets big

02:05:09.278 --> 02:05:09.498
enough,

02:05:09.918 --> 02:05:11.920
maybe whoever you're starting the fan

02:05:11.939 --> 02:05:13.279
group about one day, we'll just be like,

02:05:14.000 --> 02:05:14.180
I mean,

02:05:14.260 --> 02:05:15.661
I have like five hundred people over

02:05:15.701 --> 02:05:15.860
there.

02:05:15.900 --> 02:05:16.921
Maybe I should go ahead and just make

02:05:16.942 --> 02:05:18.042
an account and check in every once in

02:05:18.061 --> 02:05:18.362
a while.

02:05:18.502 --> 02:05:20.143
So, yeah, I don't know.

02:05:20.203 --> 02:05:20.542
It's a thought.

02:05:22.798 --> 02:05:24.900
yeah um but yeah we are sort of

02:05:24.921 --> 02:05:26.360
getting to the end of the of the

02:05:26.381 --> 02:05:27.561
live stream here i just want to cover

02:05:27.681 --> 02:05:29.823
one quick question here um because we are

02:05:30.003 --> 02:05:32.104
just we just passed two hours for the

02:05:32.125 --> 02:05:33.706
live stream um and we try to keep

02:05:33.765 --> 02:05:36.188
it within two hours so one last question

02:05:36.228 --> 02:05:38.649
here the good thing about it in is

02:05:38.670 --> 02:05:40.230
that it will eventually happen to discord

02:05:40.270 --> 02:05:41.952
and other privacy invasive platforms

02:05:42.011 --> 02:05:44.012
resulting in people leaving it someday

02:05:44.592 --> 02:05:47.435
sadly that day may be very far in

02:05:47.475 --> 02:05:47.935
the future

02:05:48.836 --> 02:05:50.778
Um, this is a comment by anonymous.

02:05:51.958 --> 02:05:52.319
I think uh,

02:05:52.960 --> 02:05:55.582
i'm not sure if I agree because um,

02:05:55.601 --> 02:05:56.143
for instance,

02:05:56.243 --> 02:05:58.003
I can think of so many platforms that

02:05:58.024 --> 02:06:00.947
are just Absolutely terrible like there

02:06:00.987 --> 02:06:02.707
are so many people who just keep using

02:06:02.787 --> 02:06:05.430
facebook I don't know what the what the

02:06:05.511 --> 02:06:06.030
issue is,

02:06:06.171 --> 02:06:08.512
but basically any event here in australia

02:06:08.592 --> 02:06:10.694
like it's always on It's always on

02:06:10.755 --> 02:06:12.376
facebook instagram

02:06:13.556 --> 02:06:14.657
Facebook Messenger.

02:06:15.938 --> 02:06:17.457
It's a terrible platform.

02:06:17.677 --> 02:06:19.698
If you talk to anyone that uses Facebook

02:06:19.759 --> 02:06:20.738
or Facebook Messenger,

02:06:21.219 --> 02:06:23.659
they'll tell you that it is absolutely

02:06:23.699 --> 02:06:24.340
buggy.

02:06:24.859 --> 02:06:25.860
It's a terrible platform.

02:06:25.940 --> 02:06:27.240
It's not fun to use.

02:06:27.320 --> 02:06:28.442
It's constantly breaking.

02:06:30.082 --> 02:06:32.563
But it's still the platform that everyone

02:06:32.582 --> 02:06:35.104
is on because of this network effect that

02:06:35.123 --> 02:06:35.764
we're talking about.

02:06:36.884 --> 02:06:39.425
So I don't know if people are actually

02:06:39.444 --> 02:06:39.965
going to leave

02:06:40.658 --> 02:06:42.161
Um, people always say, oh,

02:06:42.180 --> 02:06:43.523
I'm going to leave, but it's like,

02:06:44.524 --> 02:06:45.685
will you though?

02:06:45.966 --> 02:06:47.309
Um, I guess we'll see how it goes,

02:06:47.368 --> 02:06:49.993
but I am definitely not,

02:06:50.033 --> 02:06:51.997
wouldn't be surprised if things go back to

02:06:52.056 --> 02:06:53.238
normal in a month from now.

02:06:55.987 --> 02:06:56.867
I sadly agree with you.

02:06:57.148 --> 02:06:59.948
I have not heard a single good thing

02:07:00.208 --> 02:07:02.750
about Facebook in probably close to a year

02:07:02.810 --> 02:07:03.791
now, maybe even more.

02:07:04.011 --> 02:07:06.792
I literally, not one person has been like,

02:07:07.412 --> 02:07:07.891
you know,

02:07:08.672 --> 02:07:10.154
people hate on Facebook too much.

02:07:10.274 --> 02:07:10.993
I kind of like it.

02:07:11.033 --> 02:07:11.354
It's like,

02:07:11.394 --> 02:07:13.034
I've heard people defend certain features,

02:07:13.074 --> 02:07:13.975
but even then they're like, yeah,

02:07:14.015 --> 02:07:15.636
it's crap except for these two things.

02:07:15.676 --> 02:07:15.895
Like,

02:07:16.536 --> 02:07:19.438
and yet people are still using Facebook

02:07:19.457 --> 02:07:19.957
like crazy.

02:07:20.037 --> 02:07:21.998
They haven't had a dip in revenue yet.

02:07:22.078 --> 02:07:23.099
I think they did one time,

02:07:23.139 --> 02:07:23.899
but not since then.

02:07:23.939 --> 02:07:24.180
So-

02:07:24.783 --> 02:07:25.224
Unfortunately,

02:07:25.284 --> 02:07:26.466
I share your nihilism on that one.

02:07:27.867 --> 02:07:28.306
Yes.

02:07:28.487 --> 02:07:29.287
And with that being said,

02:07:29.328 --> 02:07:30.930
let's move into the outro here.

02:07:31.069 --> 02:07:32.990
All the updates from this week in privacy

02:07:33.051 --> 02:07:34.233
will be shared on the blog,

02:07:34.252 --> 02:07:35.193
which has already gone up.

02:07:35.474 --> 02:07:36.054
Thank you, Nate.

02:07:36.555 --> 02:07:38.376
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