WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.720 --> 00:00:08.400 Welcome to the Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America. I'm Heidi 2 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.520 Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heitkamp. Today we're going to talk about 3 00:00:11.520 --> 00:00:15.280 gerrymandering and redistricting in Texas. It's 4 00:00:15.280 --> 00:00:18.720 a hot button topic right now. Well, it sure is. And if you're 5 00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.480 nervous about what's happening, just change the rules. Just 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.040 change the rules, Joel. You don't have to go out and work hard to 7 00:00:26.040 --> 00:00:29.020 earn support. You just change the rules and then you win. 8 00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:32.780 That's how it seems to go there. Well, 9 00:00:33.500 --> 00:00:37.300 we're going to have an expert, unlike you and I. His name is Matt 10 00:00:37.300 --> 00:00:41.060 Angle and he's from the Lone Star Project and he's going to be joining me 11 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:44.860 for a must listen conversation if you're concerned about what's happening 12 00:00:45.180 --> 00:00:48.860 in Texas right now. We're going to learn a lot about this 13 00:00:48.860 --> 00:00:52.380 Texas issue today and I'm excited to get started. You know what, Hyde? 14 00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:53.180 Take it away. 15 00:00:58.510 --> 00:01:02.230 Thanks, Joel. I'm here with Matt Angle, who is 16 00:01:02.230 --> 00:01:05.950 the founder and director of the Lone Star Project, a political research and 17 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:09.550 strategic communication organization in Texas. 18 00:01:09.710 --> 00:01:13.310 The Lone Star Project works to help individuals, organizations 19 00:01:13.310 --> 00:01:17.030 and the press see beyond the misinformation that is typically 20 00:01:17.030 --> 00:01:20.670 provided by the current Republican state legislature in Texas 21 00:01:20.910 --> 00:01:24.670 and doing really important work nationally right now. Matt, 22 00:01:25.260 --> 00:01:28.780 welcome to the Hot Dish. Happy to be here, Senator. Thank you for having me. 23 00:01:28.860 --> 00:01:32.300 Well, I'm thrilled to have you because this topic is so, 24 00:01:32.540 --> 00:01:36.340 let's say, topical. I've been on many national shows this 25 00:01:36.340 --> 00:01:39.980 weekend, and every one we've been talking about what's happening in Texas 26 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:43.620 and the inevitable what should the Democrats do about it, not just in 27 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:47.020 Texas but nationally. So we'll get to that at the end. But 28 00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:50.620 okay, let's start out with the opening question. What's happening in 29 00:01:50.620 --> 00:01:54.370 Texas? Well, what you're seeing in Texas is an assault on 30 00:01:54.370 --> 00:01:58.050 democracy that does go beyond our borders. But in Texas, what 31 00:01:58.050 --> 00:02:01.850 you've got is the governor and the legislature just 32 00:02:01.850 --> 00:02:05.690 cowardly collapsing to the demands of Donald Trump 33 00:02:06.330 --> 00:02:09.690 to create at least five new 34 00:02:10.170 --> 00:02:13.690 districts that Republicans will have in order to 35 00:02:13.690 --> 00:02:17.370 bolster Republicans because of the failed policies of Trump. He 36 00:02:17.370 --> 00:02:20.920 knows that he will lose the control of the house in 37 00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:24.280 2026 unless he rigs the system and he's starting in 38 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:28.080 Texas trying to deliver five seats. It will go beyond 39 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.680 the Texas border if we don't stop it here or really have a 40 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.440 national response from Democrats. The other thing important to remember 41 00:02:35.440 --> 00:02:39.280 in Texas is that partisan gerrymandering is racial 42 00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.800 gerrymandering in Texas. There is only 13 43 00:02:42.880 --> 00:02:46.520 out of 38 districts in which minorities can elect their candidate of 44 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.200 choice, even though Blacks and Hispanics and Asians 45 00:02:50.200 --> 00:02:53.960 together make up over 60% of the Texas population. And 46 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:57.160 so if you reduce that from 13 down to only 47 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.120 8, then you. It is gross 48 00:03:00.760 --> 00:03:04.400 distortion of not just the politics of Texas, but the racial 49 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.960 makeup of Texas. That's an interesting statistic that I've never 50 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.760 heard, but it does put stuff in a very sharp 51 00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:15.520 contrast. So now that, as I understand it, and correct me if 52 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.140 I'm wrong, the Texas Legislature is meeting to basically 53 00:03:19.140 --> 00:03:22.900 accomplish and do Trump's bidding, led by your 54 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:26.660 governor, who seems to want to respond 55 00:03:27.060 --> 00:03:30.780 favorably to Trump at every turn of the way. And so where's 56 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:34.580 the Texas Legislature in this process? And is it likely you'll 57 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:38.180 be able to stop it in the legislature? Is this a foregone conclusion? 58 00:03:38.420 --> 00:03:42.260 Well, this is where we are today. This morning, actually, 59 00:03:42.260 --> 00:03:45.600 as we're speaking, there's a hearing before the House 60 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.960 Committee on redistricting on the map that they have proposed, 61 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:53.680 which would decimate minority voting strength in Texas in order 62 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.440 to create five new Republican districts. That hearing will go on for 10 63 00:03:57.440 --> 00:04:01.200 hours. It's the only hearing they've had on the map. They cynically 64 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:05.000 held seven hearings between the House and the Senate publicly before there 65 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.640 was any map. Texans overwhelmingly, 99% 66 00:04:08.720 --> 00:04:12.480 to 1, opposed them doing anything. But they're relentlessly 67 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:16.000 moving forward. If there is no disruption, if the 68 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.720 Democrats don't decide to break quorum, then the map 69 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.480 will likely be voted out of the House next week and then would 70 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.160 move to the Senate. Now, Democrats have some filibuster 71 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.880 options in order to delay things in order to build the strong legal record against 72 00:04:30.880 --> 00:04:34.720 the map because it is a overt violation of the Voting Rights Act, as the 73 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:38.460 Voting Rights Act has been interpreted at least. And also they 74 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:42.180 have the option to break quorum if they choose to do that in order to 75 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:45.900 further delay, in order to not just build the record, but I think also 76 00:04:46.220 --> 00:04:49.500 provide some room for the rest of the country and some of the other states 77 00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:53.500 to realize that Texas is just the front in a national 78 00:04:53.660 --> 00:04:57.300 war and that it's important that other Democratic 79 00:04:57.300 --> 00:05:01.020 states start to fight fire with fire. The question that I ask 80 00:05:01.020 --> 00:05:04.660 is, is there a chance that they're being too cute by half 81 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:08.350 and that this could actually electorally backfire 82 00:05:08.350 --> 00:05:11.910 on them? Well, that's a little bit of wishful thinking by a lot of 83 00:05:11.910 --> 00:05:14.910 Democrats and pundits. I mean, they 84 00:05:15.630 --> 00:05:19.190 protected pretty well all the 85 00:05:19.190 --> 00:05:22.910 districts they currently hold. Now, of the five 86 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:26.990 that they converted to districts in which 87 00:05:27.150 --> 00:05:30.790 minorities elected their candidate of choice, which are usually Democrats, 88 00:05:30.790 --> 00:05:34.510 into districts controlled by Anglos that will probably elect Republicans. 89 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.680 There's two of those that we have, strong Democratic incumbents, and 90 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.360 they have a good chance of holding on to those. And so rather than getting 91 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.880 five, it could end up being just three. But three is a lot. 92 00:05:45.880 --> 00:05:49.480 And again, even if Democrats are able to hold those districts, 93 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.200 the damage that they will have done to minority voting rights across the state 94 00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:56.920 will remain. I think it's really important that we should 95 00:05:57.400 --> 00:06:00.940 always, always stay focused on the fact that this 96 00:06:00.940 --> 00:06:04.740 isn't about Democrats or Republicans. It's about people's right to vote and right for 97 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:08.580 representation. And I think you very aptly, I think, 98 00:06:08.980 --> 00:06:12.780 said, you know, this isn't about Democrats or Republicans. This is about taking away and 99 00:06:12.780 --> 00:06:16.500 disenfranchising what is, in fact, a minority majority 100 00:06:16.739 --> 00:06:20.500 in the state of Texas to hang on to political power. 101 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:24.420 Yeah, and it's, it's disorienting, I think, to the national media a lot of times 102 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:28.110 to think about things in terms of other than Democrats 103 00:06:28.110 --> 00:06:31.950 versus Republicans or partisan. But it's simple 104 00:06:32.190 --> 00:06:35.710 to say it, but it's a difficult concept for people to get their head around 105 00:06:35.710 --> 00:06:39.350 that in Texas, the method, the process that 106 00:06:39.350 --> 00:06:43.189 Republicans have used in order to gain partisan advantage is 107 00:06:43.189 --> 00:06:46.830 to systematically undermine the voting strength of minority citizens. 108 00:06:47.230 --> 00:06:51.070 And it distorts politics in Texas at every level. 109 00:06:51.710 --> 00:06:54.750 This is not the first time that this has happened in Texas, 110 00:06:55.440 --> 00:06:59.080 right? Correct. The template for this was set back 111 00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:02.560 way back in 2003, when then the 112 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:06.160 notoriously partisan Tom DeLay, who was a corrupt 113 00:07:06.640 --> 00:07:09.840 Republican leader in Congress, he 114 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.640 bullied the legislature at that time into redrawing 115 00:07:13.640 --> 00:07:17.240 districts in mid decade and also really kind of 116 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:20.880 pioneered the use of racial gerrymandering to achieve 117 00:07:20.880 --> 00:07:24.600 partisan gains and set the template for the rest of the South. Then the 118 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:28.380 south saw what DeLay had done in Texas to eliminate at 119 00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:32.100 that time six Democratic seats where minorities had voting 120 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:35.780 strength. And that method was used in 2011 121 00:07:35.780 --> 00:07:39.340 across the South and in some of the Midwest, and then repeated in 122 00:07:39.340 --> 00:07:43.180 2021. And so if you're really looking at where the page turned 123 00:07:43.180 --> 00:07:46.420 and where Republicans really started using hostility 124 00:07:46.900 --> 00:07:50.620 to minority voters as a political tool to gain voting 125 00:07:50.620 --> 00:07:54.320 strength, it was way back when Tom DeLay reviewed the district's mid 126 00:07:54.320 --> 00:07:58.120 decade in Texas in 2003. Yeah. So one of the questions 127 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.760 I'm sure our listeners have is, you know, what is the likelihood that 128 00:08:01.760 --> 00:08:05.400 this will be stayed or at least kind of judged harshly 129 00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:09.080 by the courts? Well, it's important to keep in mind, had 130 00:08:09.080 --> 00:08:12.720 the courts not overturned the preclearance provisions 131 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:16.560 of the Voting Rights act, then this map wouldn't see the light of day. 132 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.130 It would never be able to go forward. But given that now there is no 133 00:08:20.130 --> 00:08:23.810 preclearance, then we have to move to a Federal Court to get it enjoined. 134 00:08:24.050 --> 00:08:27.770 There is a good chance or less than 50/50 on anything. 135 00:08:27.770 --> 00:08:31.370 But there is a certainly a more than zero chance of getting into 136 00:08:31.370 --> 00:08:35.170 federal court because there is already a three judge federal court 137 00:08:35.170 --> 00:08:38.810 formed because who just heard complaints against the 138 00:08:38.810 --> 00:08:42.650 current map, which also doesn't fairly represent minorities. And 139 00:08:42.650 --> 00:08:45.850 they heard three weeks of testimony as how the current map is 140 00:08:45.850 --> 00:08:49.480 inadequate. And so if we get back before that court showing that 141 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:53.080 even that map now has been further diminished, it's gone from 13 142 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:56.720 districts where minorities have the opportunity to elect their candidate of choice 143 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:00.240 to only 8. We believe that that court may step in and say 144 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.880 enough's enough. Yeah, it's going to be interesting because right now 145 00:09:04.040 --> 00:09:07.680 you're seeing the governor of California, perhaps Illinois, perhaps 146 00:09:07.680 --> 00:09:11.400 Michigan, saying New York, although New York is a 147 00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:15.040 different situation, saying, look, two can play this 148 00:09:15.040 --> 00:09:18.760 game. And I think there's a lot of people who 149 00:09:18.760 --> 00:09:22.160 have done this for a lot of years like you, who just hate to see 150 00:09:22.160 --> 00:09:25.960 this contagion jump red/blue line and 151 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.360 basically lead to kind of similar tactics in 152 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:34.120 blue states. But I will tell you that the Democrats that I talk 153 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:37.960 to, especially the activists, are saying, look, we can't, you know, 154 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.480 bring a knife to a gunfight. We've got to be as aggressive as they are. 155 00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:44.920 I mean, how do you react to what's happening in the dialogue across the country? 156 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:48.990 Well, it's maddening and it's frustrating because none of us 157 00:09:48.990 --> 00:09:52.750 want a process in which state after 158 00:09:52.830 --> 00:09:56.550 state, there's a distortion of the district lines to help one party 159 00:09:56.550 --> 00:10:00.310 or the other. However, we'll never fix that if we don't 160 00:10:00.310 --> 00:10:03.950 achieve power in order to reform. And so I 161 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:07.790 think it's very important that Democratic states respond 162 00:10:08.110 --> 00:10:11.830 just as aggressively so that Democrats can get 163 00:10:11.830 --> 00:10:15.200 regain control of the House, gain some leverage to, to bring 164 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:18.560 reform. The truth of the matter is the high 165 00:10:18.560 --> 00:10:22.400 road's not available to us anymore. You take the high road under 166 00:10:22.400 --> 00:10:26.080 Donald Trump and it's authoritarianism, you'll walk right off a cliff. You gotta 167 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.520 fight on their terms, on their terms, 168 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.360 just as hard. And keeping in mind that, look, the good guys and the bad 169 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:36.320 guys in this fight are easy to identify. We're the good guys. 170 00:10:36.880 --> 00:10:40.720 We're looking to gain power in order to make reform. They are looking 171 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.810 to gain power to cement in and 172 00:10:44.130 --> 00:10:47.770 consolidate authoritarianism. Yeah. I have a kind 173 00:10:47.770 --> 00:10:51.530 of soft spot in my heart for people who have been fighting this on behalf 174 00:10:51.530 --> 00:10:55.010 of voter rights. And now we see so much 175 00:10:55.410 --> 00:10:59.010 race to the bottom in some way. And I think your 176 00:10:59.010 --> 00:11:02.370 statement about the high roads not available to us, I think that 177 00:11:02.530 --> 00:11:05.810 reflects 90% of what Democrats believe. 178 00:11:06.050 --> 00:11:09.570 Now, this idea, they go low, we go high. 179 00:11:09.570 --> 00:11:13.250 That's not where people are anymore in the Democratic political 180 00:11:13.870 --> 00:11:17.150 party. Yeah. If there's to be a high road, we're going to have to gain 181 00:11:17.150 --> 00:11:20.990 power and build it. Yeah. Because the Republicans have torn it to pieces. 182 00:11:21.470 --> 00:11:25.230 Yeah. Well, is there any Republicans who 183 00:11:25.230 --> 00:11:28.550 are nervous about this in Texas? One of the most 184 00:11:28.550 --> 00:11:31.910 startling things about this, I mean, I'm proud 185 00:11:31.910 --> 00:11:35.310 Texan and Texas politicians over the years 186 00:11:35.630 --> 00:11:38.790 have been fiercely independent, whether they're Democrat or 187 00:11:38.790 --> 00:11:42.590 Republican, and, and been jealously protective of their 188 00:11:42.590 --> 00:11:46.190 constituents. That's not the breed of Texas Republican 189 00:11:46.190 --> 00:11:49.950 anymore. They are totally submissive to Donald Trump. 190 00:11:50.030 --> 00:11:53.710 There's no Texas Republican Party now. It's a Trump Party in Texas. 191 00:11:53.870 --> 00:11:57.550 Governor Abbott and the Republican leadership in Texas, 192 00:11:57.630 --> 00:12:01.390 they took a knee before they saw a map. They didn't even draw 193 00:12:01.390 --> 00:12:04.750 the map. It was delivered to them from a Washington operative. 194 00:12:04.910 --> 00:12:08.500 And so it's startling and disappointing as a Texan to 195 00:12:08.500 --> 00:12:11.660 see any leader, I don't care what party there is, so 196 00:12:12.140 --> 00:12:15.780 willfully submit to a stronger voice. I mean, for 197 00:12:15.780 --> 00:12:19.460 goodness sake, way back in the day, you know, Congressman, you 198 00:12:19.460 --> 00:12:22.980 know, Jim Wright and Jake Pickle and, and Jack Brooks, they fought with 199 00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.420 LBJ. Texas Republicans fought with Ronald Reagan. These 200 00:12:26.420 --> 00:12:29.820 guys can't make a fist no matter how hard they clinch. 201 00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:33.780 So one final question, Matt. How do you think this will affect a rural 202 00:12:33.780 --> 00:12:37.600 voter? Not just a minority voter, but a rural voter? Again, 203 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:41.360 one of the more frustrating things is how much damage that the Trump 204 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.880 agenda and redistricting has done to rural Texas. 205 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:49.000 I mean, rural Texas has real needs as it relates to especially health 206 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.640 care and to schools. I mean, we're having rural hospitals 207 00:12:52.640 --> 00:12:56.400 close across the rural parts of Texas. And then of 208 00:12:56.400 --> 00:12:59.880 course, rural school districts really are the 209 00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:03.720 heartbeat of, a lot of times, of communities. And 210 00:13:03.800 --> 00:13:06.520 you've seen the most extreme 211 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.000 anti-public school forces take control in Texas. And again, 212 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:14.760 these cuts to Medicaid aren't just going to affect 213 00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:18.280 people in the cities. They're going to drastically impact 214 00:13:18.280 --> 00:13:21.960 and harm rural communities. And hospitals, a lot of times, hospitals in 215 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.680 rural Texas are the biggest employers. They're closing down. But listen, 216 00:13:25.680 --> 00:13:29.420 Matt, this is gonna go on. We're in middle of it right now. 217 00:13:29.420 --> 00:13:32.700 Can you promise me, you'll come back and talk to the folks who listen to 218 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:36.340 the Hot Dish about what's happening and, you know, keep us posted 219 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:40.140 on your work and the people who care about voting 220 00:13:40.140 --> 00:13:43.820 rights in Texas, their work to preserve 221 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:47.380 voting rights for all Texans, not just those who vote 222 00:13:47.380 --> 00:13:51.180 Republican. Yes, ma', am, I certainly will. And I'm so grateful 223 00:13:51.180 --> 00:13:54.540 that you're shining a light on this and letting the rest of the country know 224 00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:58.780 about the big fight that's happening in Texas. The big fight in Texas, as 225 00:13:58.780 --> 00:14:02.180 you have so eloquently said, is not going to stay in 226 00:14:02.180 --> 00:14:05.820 Texas. What happens in Texas is going to creep out across 227 00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:09.460 the country. And the hope is that it can be stopped in 228 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:12.980 Texas so that we can get back to a more legal 229 00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:16.740 process for redistricting. 100% agree. And again, 230 00:14:16.740 --> 00:14:20.540 thank you. Okay, thanks so much, Matt, for joining us on the Hot 231 00:14:20.540 --> 00:14:20.940 dish. 232 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:29.800 You know, Joel, the one thing that I think is problematic 233 00:14:29.800 --> 00:14:33.040 in Texas is they're seeing in real time what these 234 00:14:33.280 --> 00:14:36.320 indiscriminate snatching up of people 235 00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:40.440 in the state of Texas and what it means to the economy. I think there's 236 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.120 still some broad based support for deporting people 237 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.920 who are bad actors in this country, people who entered 238 00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:51.760 illegally. But I think there's a whole lot of people who aren't really happy 239 00:14:52.290 --> 00:14:55.730 about what's happening. And it's not just in states like Texas. It's 240 00:14:56.050 --> 00:14:59.850 all over the region. And, you know, you have a really interesting story 241 00:14:59.850 --> 00:15:03.410 about a young woman that you and I both know who is 242 00:15:03.410 --> 00:15:07.090 Norwegian, who somehow got into this whole 243 00:15:07.250 --> 00:15:10.970 problem of people just kind of walking up and saying, 244 00:15:10.970 --> 00:15:14.770 get in the car. Can you imagine what you would feel 245 00:15:14.770 --> 00:15:18.290 if somebody did that to somebody really close to you? 246 00:15:18.530 --> 00:15:22.290 In this particular case that we're talking about, this individual tans 247 00:15:22.970 --> 00:15:26.810 and they get incredibly dark. I know I've known 248 00:15:26.810 --> 00:15:30.490 this individual all of her life. And so 249 00:15:30.810 --> 00:15:34.570 you can be Norwegian and tan. But the fact 250 00:15:34.570 --> 00:15:38.210 of the matter is, they were targeting her because of 251 00:15:38.210 --> 00:15:41.290 her color. They were. And 252 00:15:41.690 --> 00:15:45.090 this has got to stop. And it's going to take 253 00:15:45.090 --> 00:15:48.890 Republicans in Congress to make it stop because Stephen Miller 254 00:15:48.890 --> 00:15:52.610 is putting a criteria out there of how many 255 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:56.250 people that you have to have per day, per week. 256 00:15:56.330 --> 00:15:59.890 It's like they're deer hunting, for Christ's sake. I mean, it's, it's 257 00:15:59.890 --> 00:16:03.650 repulsive, Heidi. It just is. And it is. I want everybody to think about if 258 00:16:03.650 --> 00:16:07.210 you were a woman and this happened to you. Not that, you know, 259 00:16:07.210 --> 00:16:10.930 I'm playing that card, but I think it doubles down in 260 00:16:10.930 --> 00:16:14.490 the scary factor. Well, it does. I mean, it absolutely 261 00:16:14.490 --> 00:16:18.250 does. And it seems as though part of the strategy 262 00:16:18.250 --> 00:16:22.100 here was to get this individual alone, you know, to 263 00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:25.940 make sure that this individual was alone. And so, you 264 00:16:25.940 --> 00:16:29.380 know, luckily, there were others that, that jumped to her 265 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:32.740 defense. But, you know, I don't want to go into too many 266 00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:36.300 details because basically she's asked me not to 267 00:16:36.460 --> 00:16:40.180 out of fear for her child. I mean, that's how scary it is 268 00:16:40.180 --> 00:16:43.220 for these folks, and they're going to have to live with that the rest of 269 00:16:43.220 --> 00:16:46.380 their life. And so I just have to say this. 270 00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:50.670 If you're so tough, if you're so tough that you can go up 271 00:16:50.670 --> 00:16:54.510 to a woman and scare the hell out of her that way and affect her 272 00:16:54.510 --> 00:16:58.350 life for the rest of her life, then why the hell can't 273 00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:01.470 you wear something that identifies who you are? Why do you have to wear a 274 00:17:01.470 --> 00:17:05.230 mask? Why do you have to sit there and hide that supposed badge 275 00:17:05.230 --> 00:17:08.590 you have? How are they supposed to know? I mean, how are they 276 00:17:08.590 --> 00:17:12.310 supposed to know whether or not somebody's accosting them to rape 277 00:17:12.310 --> 00:17:14.900 them, to steal them for - I mean, this is repulsive. 278 00:17:15.860 --> 00:17:19.620 It's disgusting. But I'll tell you what, they're affecting 279 00:17:19.620 --> 00:17:23.420 real people's lives, Heidi, and it's got us ticked off. And there is going 280 00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:27.020 to be trauma that these people will experience every time someone 281 00:17:27.020 --> 00:17:30.820 approaches them, every time someone comes up to them. And just to add 282 00:17:30.820 --> 00:17:34.420 a little bit of detail so people understand there was just 283 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:38.340 an approach; she said, I'm an American citizen. Who 284 00:17:38.340 --> 00:17:41.900 are you? No attempt to identify themselves. And then 285 00:17:41.900 --> 00:17:45.520 insisting that she get in a car. And right now, Joel, 286 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.280 think about this. If you were a perpetrator, if you 287 00:17:49.280 --> 00:17:52.840 were a rapist, wouldn't you put on a 288 00:17:52.840 --> 00:17:56.160 mask and pretend you were whoever and say, get in the car? 289 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:00.120 Well, and that's how scary it can be. Complete utter strangers walking 290 00:18:00.120 --> 00:18:03.920 up. When you hear some of this stuff firsthand, it just makes you shake 291 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.560 your head. And just because someone is tan, I mean, literally 292 00:18:07.560 --> 00:18:11.360 because they're tan, they want their federal ID, as it was 293 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:14.990 called. And it just, it's repulsive. It's disgusting. It 294 00:18:14.990 --> 00:18:18.470 shouldn't take the threat of attorneys, no identification. 295 00:18:19.030 --> 00:18:22.750 It's not the America that I grew up in. It's the America clearly 296 00:18:22.750 --> 00:18:26.390 we're in today or being allowed to be today. But, 297 00:18:26.470 --> 00:18:30.230 you know, imagine how scared she was. I mean, you and I raised daughters, 298 00:18:30.470 --> 00:18:33.910 you know, we know, imagine how scared they would have been. 299 00:18:34.230 --> 00:18:38.030 And it's not the America that we grew up in. It's not the America that 300 00:18:38.030 --> 00:18:41.790 we want to live in. And you know, no one wants people here who have 301 00:18:41.790 --> 00:18:45.510 committed heinous crimes. But this idea, you know, the promise was, 302 00:18:45.990 --> 00:18:49.630 and I think people believed him, that we were only going to 303 00:18:49.630 --> 00:18:53.470 deport the worst of the worst. Guess what? You know, when you look 304 00:18:53.470 --> 00:18:57.030 at the numbers, that's not going to get them to the numbers they need. 305 00:18:57.110 --> 00:19:00.710 And so today another story in social media 306 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:03.510 about a guy who is a researcher researching 307 00:19:04.070 --> 00:19:07.560 basically a cure for Lyme disease. He's 308 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.480 Asian and lives in the country on a green card, 309 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.400 comes back into the country and he was basically disappeared for a 310 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.040 week coming into the country and his family, 311 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.800 they don't know where he is. And at a minimum, they should be 312 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:26.400 required to give people at least one phone call and connect with 313 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.120 one person to tell people where they are. And they're not even doing that. 314 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.250 Yeah, "at a minimum," I mean, give me a break! At a minimum, they 315 00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:37.930 should be able to be held to the same accountability that 316 00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:41.450 the Constitution holds all of us. And in the good news category, 317 00:19:41.690 --> 00:19:45.490 when you look at that polling, the vast majority of Americans 318 00:19:45.490 --> 00:19:49.050 think you shouldn't be able to do this without an independent third 319 00:19:49.050 --> 00:19:52.690 party looking at it. You know, there's no level of accountability 320 00:19:52.690 --> 00:19:56.290 which gets to this redistricting issue in Texas, 321 00:19:56.290 --> 00:19:59.690 which is, you know, they can sense that the grip, 322 00:20:00.040 --> 00:20:03.240 the, that, you know, that this so called mandate is slipping away, 323 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.160 that this isn't going to be a favorable midterm. And 324 00:20:07.320 --> 00:20:10.800 so now they've got to rig the rules. And so all of the people out 325 00:20:10.800 --> 00:20:14.080 there are saying, when is going, when are we going to see a level of 326 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:17.720 accountability or at least pushback? Well, number one, 327 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.520 the first thing that I would say is quit expecting it from the President. He's 328 00:20:21.520 --> 00:20:25.320 a lame duck. You may think that he can be reasoned with. I don't 329 00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:28.760 think that's true. We have got to hold members of Congress 330 00:20:28.760 --> 00:20:32.080 accountable. We have got to have some level of 331 00:20:32.080 --> 00:20:35.880 accountability. And so this redistricting gets 332 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.360 really, really significant and the midterms get significant. But 333 00:20:39.600 --> 00:20:42.320 again, this is a guy who doesn't really care about 334 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:46.600 legitimate constitutional process. If I were, and 335 00:20:46.600 --> 00:20:50.280 understand what we're really talking about here is the electoral College, I get 336 00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:53.640 that. But if I was the Governor of California, of Illinois, of 337 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.200 Pennsylvania, of Kentucky, if I were any one of those, 338 00:20:57.760 --> 00:21:01.480 I would look at my staff right now and I'd say, draw me a 339 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:05.200 plan, draw me a plan. Call it plan A, call plan B. 340 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.840 But it's going to have my state gerrymandered. It's going to have 341 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:12.240 my state exactly what they don't want to see. 342 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.240 And then I would get on a plane, I'd go to the White House, I'd 343 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:19.080 go to all those little smart butts that they have, 344 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:22.400 and I'd say, look, go ahead and do it in Texas. Here's what we're going 345 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:25.200 to do in California. Here's what we're going to do in Illinois. Here's what we're 346 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.680 going to do in states that are Blue states, where we control them. Now, let's 347 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:32.020 see how you do. Because a lot of those states have a lot of 348 00:21:32.020 --> 00:21:35.780 congressmen in them. And so you know what's going to happen 349 00:21:35.780 --> 00:21:39.580 then. Heidi is the Michelle Fischbach 350 00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:43.460 in District 7 of Minnesota, which had voted 351 00:21:43.460 --> 00:21:46.620 Democrats at times with Colin Peterson. You start 352 00:21:46.620 --> 00:21:50.380 redistricting her a little bit, putting in this or that, draw a 353 00:21:50.380 --> 00:21:53.900 straight line towards the Twin Cities, and she's going to start 354 00:21:53.900 --> 00:21:57.400 crying, she's going to start whining, and she's gonna go to the White House and 355 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.080 say, you just cost me my seat. Don't do this. You need me. And so 356 00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:04.800 two can play that damn game. Well, I think that's what basically 357 00:22:04.800 --> 00:22:08.320 those governors are saying, that they are not gonna let this stand. 358 00:22:08.320 --> 00:22:12.040 That if what? Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. And 359 00:22:12.040 --> 00:22:15.560 it's a race to the bottom, Joel. This is all a race to the 360 00:22:15.560 --> 00:22:18.640 bottom because we shouldn't have partisan 361 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.040 gerrymandering. We should have legitimate - I'm for just, just 362 00:22:22.390 --> 00:22:26.030 crank up the old AI and let the AI, you know, plug in a couple 363 00:22:26.030 --> 00:22:29.630 parameters and let AI redistrict, because that is 364 00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:33.470 going to make more sense than what's happening right now. Well, and I 365 00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:37.190 can tell you this on a small, small, small scale. I got 366 00:22:37.190 --> 00:22:40.710 gerrymandered when I was in the legislature. Yeah, you did. 367 00:22:40.870 --> 00:22:44.590 It's a fun story. Yeah, I did. I ended up having to run against 368 00:22:44.590 --> 00:22:48.390 a fellow Democratic senator. And, you know, it didn't exactly 369 00:22:48.390 --> 00:22:52.110 make for hugs and kisses all the time, but these guys 370 00:22:52.110 --> 00:22:55.770 gerrymandered me into my district. They didn't 371 00:22:55.770 --> 00:22:59.450 realize where I lived, and so they kept me in the 372 00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:03.090 district that I wanted to be in. It was like, 373 00:23:03.490 --> 00:23:06.610 can't you read a map? Or at least, can't you do the homework if you're 374 00:23:06.610 --> 00:23:09.730 going to be that big of jerks and find out where I live? And you 375 00:23:09.730 --> 00:23:13.490 know what? I still won. So there. That's the other point, Joel. 376 00:23:13.890 --> 00:23:16.650 When they're in charge of the rules, you need to figure out how you can 377 00:23:16.650 --> 00:23:20.290 still convince people that the time has come to 378 00:23:20.530 --> 00:23:24.140 be hold people accountable. Well, my brand of politics 379 00:23:24.140 --> 00:23:27.180 and public policy has always been the same. You know, 380 00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:31.700 whatever you shall do to me, it's coming back tenfold. I don't know if 381 00:23:31.700 --> 00:23:35.460 that's in the Bible, I doubt it is. But, I mean, here's, here's my 382 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:39.100 case. If Governor Abbott, who is one of the most evil 383 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:42.940 men I think there is on this planet, if that man does what he 384 00:23:42.940 --> 00:23:46.620 does, then by God, Ken Martin and others better 385 00:23:46.620 --> 00:23:50.470 have a plan B because that's what they're hired to do. Yeah, I 386 00:23:50.470 --> 00:23:54.190 have no doubt about it. Well, anyway, this is a really important issue, one we're 387 00:23:54.190 --> 00:23:57.750 going to be covering, and it's really important to our mission here at One 388 00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:01.310 Country. And it's something we need to not talk about just 389 00:24:01.390 --> 00:24:05.030 this time, but stay on top of as we head into the 390 00:24:05.030 --> 00:24:05.630 Midterms. 391 00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:12.430 Well, listen, I think that's a wrap for us in this 392 00:24:12.430 --> 00:24:16.230 episode. Joel, if you're around, let's keep talking about 393 00:24:16.390 --> 00:24:19.990 these issues that are important to rural America. Keep talking about what's 394 00:24:19.990 --> 00:24:23.110 happening with the rural economy, how 395 00:24:23.430 --> 00:24:26.390 various policies are going to affect the rural economy. 396 00:24:26.950 --> 00:24:30.310 We'll be on it on a regular basis. You know, and you can email 397 00:24:30.550 --> 00:24:32.990 us your thoughts. Our email address is 398 00:24:32.990 --> 00:24:36.750 podcast@onecountryproject.org. And to 399 00:24:36.750 --> 00:24:40.060 keep up with everything One Country is doing between these podcast 400 00:24:40.060 --> 00:24:43.380 episodes, be sure to follow us on Bluesky and 401 00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:47.100 Substack. Thank you for joining us today on the Hot Dish, which is brought to 402 00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:50.620 you by One Country Project, making sure the voices of the rest of us 403 00:24:50.780 --> 00:24:52.820 are heard in Washington. Learn 404 00:24:52.820 --> 00:24:56.460 more at onecountryproject.org. And we're going to be back in two 405 00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.060 weeks with more Hot Dish, comfort food for rural America.