Coming to you from crash studios in Music City, USA, Nashville.
This is the rich Redmond show
time your watch, your iPhone, your clock, if you're so old
fashioned, is correct? It's time for another exciting episode of
the rich redness show. We talk about all things music,
motivation, success and whatever the heck comes up. Very exciting
day because I am in the room with Jim McCarthy, co host, co
producer, drummer extraordinaire, Jim, how are you
buddy?
Good man, how are you? It's been it's been a minute. It's
been a minute. You've been so busy, you're producing 20
podcasts, you know, you're keeping the world safe for
podcasts, this incredible new media. Occasionally I'm lucky
enough to get you on the Zoom, you know, but we've been doing
this on Zoom for about four years. This pesky, you know,
international pandemic reared its ugly head, and so we were
not doing the in persons, but today we are in person. And not
only are we with each other, we are joined by Australia's
hottest country rock duo. They're great friends of mine.
Of course, I'm talking about Nick and Tom Wolf. Are you guys?
Oh, my God, Nick brought his beautiful bride. Hello. Now,
Todd, you were saying that we are you are about 10,000 miles
from your homeland. And this almost seems like a joke when I
say it, because it's so interesting that I know two
people, three people, several people from Tasmania. Yeah,
doesn't get further away. Really, it's so good to be back
over here with you guys. It's been 2019. Was the last time
we're over and lost changed in those five years. Yeah,
Nashville's.
Nashville is a lot busier than it used to be. There's more
traffic, right? It's crazy. It's been it's such a journey to get
over here. I'd forgotten how harsh that wrong. No flight is
like it just we used, used to be pretty good at adapting to the
time zone change, but
this time, what is it like? 24 hours, 15
hours ahead of us right now, okay, it's like 130 in the
morning back at home. Sometimes, you know, you land here and it's
you instantly just adjusted. This time was not the case.
Yeah, it was brutal. That is
brutal jet lag. I remember one time I went to Japan, and when I
came back, I slept an entire 24 hour period. I suppose I think
you're just supposed to adapt to the current situation is that,
you know, melatonin land well, you
know, really embrace melatonin. We can't at home, you got to get
that through a prescription. And I think it's like 150 bucks
something, but this time, it's just Walmart and, yeah, buy like
400 of them. So we've stocked up on melatonin, stocked up on
melatonin, and
we've stocked up on Advil. PM, before I go back,
I gotta do these things. Are watching. Don't
sit my bag.
I always have, like, before I get on a flight, I got to make
sure I have gum, yeah, to make sure I have Mucinex. Okay.
Otherwise, it blows out my ears. Sure.
It's horrible. The Mucinex is used to, kind of drain the
cavities. Yeah,
it helps you with you just, you know, because all the gumming up
with the works and drain the cavities. And when you go, when
you come in for landing, it's just, I feel like a hope hot
pokers, mayors, yeah,
man, well, I did take that trip one time to see your beautiful
country. And we, we were only there for like, five days, yeah,
Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney. And I feel like Sydney is it
like an amazing combination of, like, New York and LA, you got
the palm trees, but then there's the culture, yeah, and there's
like the fashion, and people are beautiful, and there's like an
energy. But I was, I was there for like, 18 hours, yeah,
that's a good I see we've said LA is kind of Sydney's,
Australia's LA, I think it's probably good, yeah, good
comparison, yeah.
Now let me say this to folks that aren't familiar with you.
Check these guys out on the Spotify. These are just some of
their accomplishments. Their first original music release was
in 2010 and then there's this amazing story about Australia's
Got Talent, which I want you guys to get into, six albums,
written and recorded. But that ain't nothing. Look at this. 19
Australian number one country songs, nine golden guitar
Awards, which is kind of like Australia's CMA Awards, and
you're, it says that you're the most awarded group in Australian
country music history for Australia, number one albums.
That's a lot of congratulations, guys.
It's been a hell of a journey. It's like, I think part of me is
so proud of that, but also don't like to say because you don't
want to come across as
like, yeah, we're with the great.
It's just we've worked really hard at it, and we love doing
this, so we're very proud of what we've got to achieve,
especially in the last few years, like where the industry
sort of embraces at home. It's been, it's been amazing mate. So
yeah, we're, we're very fortunate to do this
now, one of the one eight. Yes, I agree. I'm right in there, in
that lane with you, with the gratitude factor, we're going to
go back, because take us back. Everyone's got to do that. But
one of the latest accomplishments, as you guys
played with with the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra, we
did. So this came about during covid. We Australia got locked
down pretty bad. Oh, yeah. So we couldn't really, like, it was
all sort of different state by state. So there's a lot of
states we couldn't go into tour. So it was really hard for us. We
were in Tassie. Now that was one of the most locked down places,
right? Well, yeah. And the thing is, we're an island state, so we
didn't even really have covid
there. Like, kind of the good side of it was they locked it
down really hard and wouldn't let their own in. But life was
pretty well as it was. We just couldn't leave, I guess, beacon
still pretty much go anywhere, and because we had zero or three
cases, and those, those people would have been like, indoors
or, you know, so obviously pretty extreme, but it was
pretty for the most part. We was just kicking around doing what
we
normally do, that's right. So during that lockdown, a friend
of ours named Tom rhymes had access to a church of all
things, Wolf brothers playing in a church. He's like, can you
guys look, I'm doing acoustic shows. I want to see musicians
just start working again. And we were like, Great, this would be
really fun. I guess we're probably known a bit more for,
like, high energy, as you said, country rock. I'm running over
the stage like an idiot. It was a really good opportunity. It
was a really good opportunity to slow things down, talk a bit
more about the story, about the songs. And he loved Like, he
loved it. And he was like, Well, I do a lot with the Tasmanian
Symphony Orchestra, yeah. I think this would actually be a
really cool pairing, like pairing, yeah. Talked about it
for a few years, and then, credit to the Tasmanian Symphony
Orchestra, they came to us last year and said, No, we really
want to do this. We want to invest in the charts, and we
want to create something that's really special to Tasmania in
our state. And it was, like, incredible. We, like, went
through the set list about 20 times with them, and tried to
pick sort of a covering of our career and tell a story. And,
yeah, it was a playing with that orchestra was like, such a such
a different beast than what we normally
do, totally bucket listing, you know, to hear songs that we've
written over the last 10, you know, 12 years or whatever,
like, come to life in that different way. And, you know, we
got to, Tom did such a fantastic job with the compositions. And
kind of was that, you know, an early song girl, by the memory,
that was kind of our first number one that took a
different, you know, some things took a totally different turn.
Like that. We redid the chords. We made it more like Glen
Campbell, the song that that you wrote that kind of night, which
has been a massive song for us, and it's always a staple in the
set. Let's love it that kind of took on, let's say like an
Indiana Jones feel.
You know that open the song you wrote, open the show with this
sort of orchestra intro that went for two minutes, and it was
like a movie.
It felt like we were Indiana Jones walking out into the that
was honestly one of the coolest things ever. Yeah, so good
walking on, walking on the stage with those shows the world that
was heroic. Heroic. We the coolest people.
Orchestra is it is such a unique thing, and it's just so
powerful.
We love combining it and like for us, you know, Nick and I are
the wolf brothers, obviously, but we travel with a five piece
band, and we wanted to incorporate that as well. So
there was some stuff that was like, drums, electric harmonica,
keys, full, rocking out, yeah. And then we also stripped it
back to just Nick and I acoustic,
and total shout out to the boys in the band and the crew too. I
feel like everyone rose to the occasion. Yes, uh, we was
really, I'm proud of us all.
I was pretty stressed leading up to those shows, and I was maybe
the most stressed I've ever seen.
You over prepare, you know, and then you just go, and then you
just let it go and let the Muse take over and and you guys
filmed it. Did you film
it? We recorded it, filmed a bunch of it. I think actually,
the Tasmanian symphony orchestra are making like a documentary
process, because they came down to the farm with Nick and I and
Simon, who runs a TSO and Tom rhymes. Simon is like, imagine
an orchestra guy. He's exactly what an orchestra guy looks
like. White hair. He looks like Mozart. I love you. I love you,
but that was honestly, and we're going to do it again. And
actually, I haven't even told you, I got a text from Simon,
literally, yesterday. He wants to send some of the live
recordings off to other symphonies around Australia and
do it again, rinse and
repeat once you get the charts. And that's
the great. England, like, we actually did a songwrite Two
days ago, right next door to where, like, the Nashville
Symphony was. And I was like, Oh, just
to the university. I could totally see that. See that
happening. And you so you guys have been in town for like, like
a like, two weeks. You'll come every couple years or so and
just write right, right every day, rights.
I feel a bit like an empty show.
For people that don't know, songwriting is a such a craft,
we're in the songwriting sort of capital the world for this
particular kind of music, songwriting capital. And
just, you know, you walk outside of your house and you know, the
mailman's a songwriter, your barista is a songwriter.
Everyone is a songwriter. And we wrote one together about a week
ago, and you came in with a like a fully fleshed out title.
Great. I were and it just
happened, which I came up with about 10 minutes before you
walked in. Let's just pretend it was something I worked on for
years. But no, that's one of my favorite ones we've got in this
trip. What did
you guys write with this week? Was a lot a lot of writers,
yeah. So
we wrote, obviously, with yourself and Eric halby, you
guys wrote that kind of night, which has been a big part of our
set. We wrote with a great friend of ours, Jordan Brooker,
we wrote with CJ solar, couple of great ones with CJ. Yeah, a
couple of great ones with CJ. Another great mate of ours. Drew
Kennedy, of course, with fellow Aussie, Phil Barton, synonymous
around town for being just an energy
and energy vortex.
Lots of like, lots of people like, and I reckon we could have
written another 20 times, but the brain is only capable of,
yeah, of so
mentally and physically to do the thing. A lot of calories are
being burned, neurons are firing, and it's
just another another place. I mean, I think you could write
three songs a day, but they're not going to
be what's the biggest hang up in a song when you're writing
lyrics
and everything? Second verse?
Is it the second verse? I'll be like, you know, do I use the
here or, or, you know, is it to get to that?
Definitely, the thing for me is if, if the idea is great, you
want to make the whole thing great, yeah, right. And it's
very easy just to go, like, cold beer Friday night girl truck,
you know, but you want to dig a bit deeper than that and make
sure it is great and is going to stand the test of time, and is
going to hang around and not just be more. People are saying,
you know, the the cool word of the week is lit, so let's use
that. That's, yeah, we don't really like to do
that for guys that are in town, like riding 567, times a week.
I, I don't know how they're coming up with the like the
ideas, right when we planned this event in five years, and we
booked the flights like six, seven months before we come
here, and we had both had like ideas in our phone for trying to
come up with great song ideas. Halfway through, we'd, we'd ran
out of five years. We had six months to prepare, so
it's a thing, yeah, and to I think just because everyone's a
musician, everyone's at the top of their game here, not that
that's not the case at home, yeah, I guess just it's so
focused, everyone's like, trying so hard to to get to that next
level here all the time. Yeah, it's competitiveness, but it's
also lifting everyone up as well. Yeah, absolutely. You
know, like, on the ideas thing, when we're at lunch after we
wrote the other day, you you said something, and I wrote it
down as an idea, yeah, which turned into, like, a great song.
So let me ask you this, I've always had an idea for a song,
if it's, if it's mentioned, does there's somebody able to, oh,
that's a good idea, you know? And then they run with it, and
all of a sudden, some guy gets I've always had, you know,
maybe, maybe I shouldn't put it out. I don't know what the heck.
Be careful. Yet,
You're half two years. I was like a she's in her get two
years. I always have a theory on life that you go through
different phases. Most of our lives are half two years, the
things we have to do and we're working to our get to years.
This is on record. Okay?
We can write this via zoom
tomorrow, but that is a great idea. And if you're in a writing
room, you just talk, and you just, you probably spent half
hour, hour just really talking about it and going, Okay, what
do we need to say? What exactly? How do we really shape this
idea? I'm
just a concept guy. Yeah, no one realization I've had this trip,
particularly is, it is so much luck, even though everyone's
great at what they do, bringing great skill set, but it's going
to come down to like, Okay, how are the three people in this
room feeling on this day? What have they listened to in their
life, let alone? On the trip, the drive to the right, or the
previous couple of weeks. What's kicking around in the in the
cogs, in the mind that's gonna come out? You know,
does it come out of frustration? Sometimes, sometimes, yeah, it's
definitely some. That's another thing is to the awkwardness in
the room, propels the right fort, because
I'd be really good. In that sense, I make things really
awkward, like closer mates here, like Jordan Brook is a really
good mate of ours, and we wrote a song, and it probably took us
six hours, yeah, and it took that long because we could relax
laugh,
or Tom was lying in the floor like crying with laughter.
That's a level of comfort you don't typically get in
a National Writing Room. If I've just walked into a ride with
someone I've just met, you're not gonna do that. But sometimes
that's also good, because then you're like, sort of say, so
focus on tasks. It's like, okay, so what are we? What are we?
Okay, what do you think of that? Like? It's there is so many
variables in it. And then I think we've been talking a lot
of the writers here, and they're like, love this, you know, we'd
actually love to pitch some of this stuff. And you're like,
okay, and then then it's like, what mood are they in when they
hear the song? But what if they just listened to before that? So
you just, you got to put it out there. Hope for the best,
because you're
in a closed room, typically, right? Yeah. So what if, like,
you know, the receptionist walks by and you guys are kind of like
at a log jam, and she just overhears and said, she just
goes, bam, and she just gives you a suggestion. She's
like, it's gray area.
There was a
story about the friends in low places, right, where there was
one individual in the room that just brought stood, like, one
word,
or they got a co write credit, full credit, really? Yeah,
that's Nashville, because, like, and I know some of the pop world
stuff when there's, like, there's a beat maker, and
there's like, a 13 writers on a song, and everybody it looks at
the number of words, and they add them up, and they slice and
dice by the number of words, and then there's like, yeah, if
there's three people in Nashville, everyone's getting
33.3% right? But in LA and New York or Atlanta or whatever, and
there's 13 writers there, it's weird, yeah,
different. Yeah, that is one thing that's great. And, like,
especially when we first started coming over here, you know, we
were going into rooms with like, right? Is it a way better and
more experienced at us. And they'd be like, No, we'll just
share it out. It's all like, we'd maybe take an idea and
they'd sit there and write the song. But no, no, it's all good,
like, so I love that attitude. It's helping out. And then, you
know, you got to put it
out there. You guys are, you're the type of artist that are in
the deep end of the pool, getting your hands dirty so
involved with everything, you know, doing the writing, because
there are some artists that just, they just take
the songs, yeah, and that's, that's also, that's also cool. I
think for us to feel like saying things that are going to connect
with an audience and feel authentic, I think they've got
to come from us. You know, ironically, the only two, a
couple of songs we've ever released that we haven't written
were written by like, you you guys, with you guys.
So kind of not you got to me, yeah. So
I think I feel like they're both songs like, I think you guys
should re pitch that over here, because they're just such good
songs,
thanks, man. So yeah, some songs that we've got in the room and
wrote together, you got to me that kind of night when I was
the one, no sad songs. Were they all number ones? Yeah. Oh, my
God, I helped Cory four number ones. I gotta change my bio. You
know, what's great is that you guys are these things. What's
what's really makes me proud is that these are a staple of your
live show. And let's face it, in this musical economy, taking the
music to the people, directly to the people, is really a primary
focus of where the music business is. Like, hey, let's
create this community. Let's have this healing feeling. Let's
have this special night together. Please buy a hoodie,
you know,
well, I don't know about you guys, but for me, covid just
submitted for me, how important live music is. Live music, I
mean, I know we can be so connected via the internet, via
our phones, but going into a room, watching a band or an
artist and getting lost in that moment is something we all need
to do more of, and even for myself, like, you know, the most
happiest I've ever had, ever are in my life is either when I'm
with my kids and my family, or literally, when I'm on stage and
everyone's in sync and you just know the band's cooking. I can
look over at Nick he's rocking. It's like, Ah, this, this, I
love that. Like I have no desire. I will tour until I die,
like I want to be in a wheelchair, like getting my wife
and kids to pick me up at hopefully 90 years old to I can
keep playing. I just love it. Live for it.
It's got to be extra special that you guys are connected by
blood. You know, you look over you're like, Oh, my God, it's my
i. And we came from the same place, literally. So am I right
in saying that you guys are your third generation musical family?
Yes,
well, actually fourth. So where we come from in Tassie, we're
fourth generation farmers, raspberry farmers, raspberry and
blue raspberry, strawberries, cherries. That's
good farming.
So we're like on the foothills of Mount Wellington in Tasmania,
so it's a little bit colder and stuff. But yeah, our great
grandfather bought the farm in 1899 so what's the 125 curly.
Yeah. Curly was his son. Okay, so curly wolf was his son, and
he had his own wolf family orchestra, which is his wife,
our Nan, and our dad and his brother and everyone played in
so they always had the farm, but they always played music, always
played music, and I think curly and our dad especially, maybe
wanted to do what we get to do. I sort of feel like we're the
beneficiary of, like, four generations of people who've
just worked their ass off. Yeah, and we, like, get to actually do
because dad would like say to us all the time growing up, don't
worry about the farm. Just don't worry about it. Just do your
music. Do what makes you happy. So, like, the fact that we get
to do that, I mean, like, we're at work right now. We're at
Nashville doing a podcast. You know, after this we're going to
go, like, to loveless cafe. This is our job, it's pretty easy.
Exactly your
grandfather was in his half two years.
You're in your get to generational thing at this
point. It
is so like, we feel very fortunate to do it. But yeah, a
lot, a lot of music. Dad was a drum. That was a drama. Yeah,
you helped
him cart his drums around to the casinos and the,
yeah, yep, we used to take him to sound check, and if we'd been
good, we'd get to bash the Rogers kid. He had that big 70s
Rogers, you know, with like, four Toms Nick's got it. Now,
it's like, it's like, full Ronnie, Ronnie tart Elvis type.
Yeah,
we've just built a shed, and I'm so excited to get home and set
up that kit sitting, you know, in Tony's parents under the
house, you know, gathering dust for a couple years. And so we've
got no really where to set this up. And you're going to set them
up. Set them up. I'm going to get a little PA, you know, and
just bash the hell out like, obviously a guitarist, but love
drumming, and that's and had that that kid with that
connection to dad,
I feel like we're both frustrated drummers at heart,
because we both wanted to be drummers, but
totally a frustrated But not because of my drumming. I'm just
naturally frustrated. Give me a symbol,
dad. Dad was totally like, No, you can't, can't buy drums.
Can't Buy drums. I think because he was a drummer and he wanted
to be in a band with us. He's like, You can't buy drums. You
got to be that front
dad was dad's very Tom is very dad, yeah. Dad was a front man,
but he was the drummer. Yeah,
yeah, because you're always running around. Tom's kind of
the like, I'm the singer, but Tom's the announcer, the I
noticed that you
do a lot of housekeeping. Let's put our hands together, folks,
yeah, let's get out those lighters. Yeah, exactly, you
know. So, but so, So Nick, you started on guitar, and you and
Tom you started on piano. So I started
on piano, and I did really enjoy that, but Nick's a little bit
older. And then there came a point when Nick brought home
Metallica's Master of Puppets. Oh, gosh, and we're in the
lounge room, and mum's literally walking around going the dance.
That was, like, that was a light bulb. Like, what's that? You
know? And like, we grew up listening to some. Was
it the album or the song that got your master puppets, the
actual song, you know, from, from Stranger Things, yeah, four
Stranger Things.
And you got to think, this is, didn't have YouTube. We're
probably the last ones, right, internet and all this stuff. So,
like,
you want to hear something, it was given to you by, like, a
cooler, older kid, or, you know, your cousin, yeah, who was like,
that's the men guy, you know.
And you just didn't, you'd never heard of it. For, like, I can
remember our older cousin gave us live after death. I made an
environment, and we were just like, What? What is this? Is,
who
is Eddie?
Why are they galloping all the time? Soon
as Nick bought that home piano was gone. I went and bought a
baseball. I wanted to do that with Nick.
So did you ever get into any the Bootsy pop, slap stuff
a little bit during school? I like that. But, um, that was,
that's probably, that's not my it's almost
good that you don't that bass players don't know how to pop
and slap because unless you do it really well, it's
just very aggressive, very 100% agree.
We went down to Broadway the other night. What other day?
Actually? We're too old to go at night, one o'clock. In the day,
and, yeah, we saw some completely inappropriate slap
moments, like
I will always love, you
know, here's okay, you brought up two, two very key songs.
Here's the funny thing, Master of Puppets, when that song came
out the general public, what you know you were metalhead, if you
were into that song, right? So here it is. It got your
attention. And fast forward for, you know, 30 some odd years.
Ouch. And it's one of the biggest it was one of the most
downloaded songs because of Stranger Things, because it was
like an homeless it
was an overheard of it Will Ferrell, when they abducted the
kids for their their rite of passage into the fraternity,
they that's the that's the abduction song. But, I
mean, here's the other thing you bring up, don't stop believing.
And I always ask this to our guests that, come on. Do you
think that Neil Shawn and Jonathan Cain were thinking we
are writing the hit of hits right now? You know what? I
mean, surely they
must have known they're on a stunt. But
never know this is gonna pay for our grand grandchildren. Yeah,
lifestyle, I
don't know. Like, I don't know. I mean, I'd like to think that
they thought, Chief, we've, we've got a good one, yeah? But
I mean, like, sometimes we've been in writing rooms and
written songs and gone. That's the best thing we've ever
written, and they've gone away three days and listened to it
and gone. What do we actually, worst thing with music, you
know, I think once they go out into the world, it's like they
can do anything, and then you see, you're seeing now, older
songs, as you said, like that, reconnect through the internet
and TV shows and stuff. So,
yeah, it just depends. I mean, you look at Faith No More, you
know, the song that I'm talking about, we care a lot. Yeah, that
thing is used everywhere. Yeah? Like, who would have thought
those guys back in 1988 we were like, oh yeah, this is gonna be,
you know, they came out with the real thing. And, you know, you
know, What's that song? Can you feel it? See it, hear it today?
Yeah, that song that was a huge hit for them, yeah? But here's
like, before Mike Patton was the singer of faith, no more, yeah,
we care a lot. Was in dirty jobs. It was, it's used for
production stuff. I heard it recently on something else. I'm
like this, these guys must be making Bangkok. Yes, you know
what?
It was also a no no back in the day for, you know, artistically,
for an artist to license their song right out of the gate. They
would wait till, like, their get two years, and they would be
like, okay, screw it. Let's, let's make some money. But now
it's like, Hey, if you can find a home for your music, I mean,
anywhere
video games, yeah, look at Dragonforce, right? Remember
those guys? Yeah, fire in the flames. That was the, that was
the supreme boss level music, song you had to play in Guitar
Hero, yeah? Because it was so fast and that put them on the
map.
Jim your your Spotify playlist is like all you're like a closet
dad, metalhead.
I've always been through the heavy stuff. Yeah, you know, I'm
eclectic. I'm all over the map. I'll listen to Bad Religion.
Then I'll go to, you know, country stuff, and I'll listen
Huey Lewis in the news. I've been in a big Cook, big kick for
that. All about Huey.
Yeah, nothing wrong with us. Nothing wrong with you. I always
fantastic. You know
what? What I was gonna ask you guys, as you mentioned your, you
know, five guys, Band of Brothers on the road. Yeah,
you've always had great drummers. I we were all the red
door the other night. Kip Allen has played for you. Your current
drummer, David, fantastic. So it was like a drum nerd moment.
Tell us about your current band, yeah.
So Dave Roberto on drums. Dave's fantastic. He's as invested in
the band as like we are, yeah. He's got a studio back in
Melbourne. He's sending tracks all over the world.
Damn good mates, and all the new stuff. He's
on a lot of our new stuff. Ironically, we were in town and
we bumped into a bunch of Canadian artists. And I'm like,
hang on. I'm like, our drummers play drums on your stuff, and
he's here. So that's been really cool. Our brother, Brody
rainburg, who used to be an official member of the group,
Solly. So Brody. Brody stepped back as an official member a
couple albums ago. Like, I think creatively, he wanted to sort of
create his own voice, which is, which is totally fine. And we
were like, We don't want you to leave. He's like, why? He's
like, I he's like, I just want to be able to do my music, he
said, but I really love to play every gig. Like, yeah, kind of a
weird setup. Yeah. It works. It works. And we've got a new guy's
been with us since, actually, ironically, he did two gigs with
us before covid hit. So we thought he was like the bad luck
charm for Scott target. And he's playing keys, he's playing harp.
Great singer. So the band now, I we think the band's the best
it's musically it's ever been. It's just a powerhouse. Yeah,
it's amazing when that happens. Just. It's like, he can't, yeah,
can't replace so I just knew something was going on, because
I was like, you know, so Brody was the third official member,
and then all the marketing is, like, on the covers of those
would be like three, you guys. It was like, oh, it's like a
rascal flat, right now. It's like, just two years
we lost the good looking
so we have to write better songs. No,
look, it was, it was very natural seeing and, you know,
like, our journey has been a big journey of coming over here a
lot, yeah. And I think just before covid, we signed a deal
with broken bow, and which means we were going to spend a lot
more time here, yeah. And I don't he was pretty keen to be
more home in Australia. So yeah, it was very like, it was a
painless sort of thing. It was no like, arguments or anything
like it was just sort of naturally what he wanted to do.
Yeah, I guess
it's kind of hard as a fan to kind of understand that, because
typically, if there's not a guy on the cover anymore, something
bad happened.
It didn't,
I think it's Tesla. You're still playing all the shows. He's
just, it's honestly, if
anything, like, our relationship with broad is the best it's ever
been. Wow, because we're all just doing what we want, and
there's no kind of and
it's really great, like we show the boys, obviously, stuff we've
recorded, sometimes they po in the recording. Sometimes they
don't. But recently we showed them some stuff we writing and
demoing up, you know, that they hadn't been involved in. I was
like, Hey, boys in the van, I check this out, and it's really
cool. Brody's like, that's the most wolf brothers stuff I've
ever heard. So, yeah, it's like a family actually. Ironically,
we were all texting each other before we come here, and we're
like, It's been too long away from each other. We've got to
get back in
the van at the
end of every one of our tours. We're just like, all right, that
was great. Now it's time for, you know, some, you know, peanut
brittle and my mom's cookies and a little maybe it'll snow here,
and we'll it's the holidays, we'll take a break, and then
that second week of January comes around. Like, well, we are
ready, yeah, get back out with each other,
or you would have like to your entire, I'm assuming, most of
your entire life. You wouldn't always packed. You wouldn't know
what to do when you're not doing it right
now, it's been weird. It's been weird going from 225, shows a
year to about 50 shows a year. I have more time, which means I
have more responsibility as I have a honey do list, I got to
make sure that there's food in the refrigerator, clean the
house and just do normal things when you're gone all the time,
you just really don't have to deal with that stuff. Do
you Do you still enjoy touring as much I do, man, I
you know. I mean, I love being in a recording studio with some
some air conditioning and some great coffee, and you're looking
in the whites of some people's eyes. And you know, they're all
going to change history. It's going to affect but there's just
something about being a troubadour and taking the music
directly to the people. I love it. I like the balance of the
two. Yeah, you know the idea of somebody just having a studio
tan and just doing two sessions a day, five days a week.
Yeah, it's actually ironic. So you guys have all, like, played
together for like, 25 years, like, yeah, forever, yeah. So
you guys must be a pretty tight it's a secret
language.
You wouldn't even need to say what the next
person, just like Aquaman. And you'd like, Oh, I get it, yeah.
That's
implying wise you guys would know what you're about to do and
you just get you'd already be going with it. Telepathy. Yeah,
I'm awesome. It really is. Now, now we're just talking about
being in the studio. We years ago we wrote together. First, it
was a writing relationship set up by your manager was and we
became fast friends. And was like, oh my god, this is
amazing. And you guys were nice enough
to just jump in and say, like, rich went so above and beyond,
like, we didn't know Rich from bar soap, and, you know, we were
big fans, I think, you know, particularly the early our Dean
stuff like that. You guys did that, that kind of we, that made
us kind of go, man. I think what we do is going to work in
country, yeah, because, and you just went above and beyond. And,
you know, Steve, our manager, reached out to rich and said,
Oh, do you reckon you could hook up the boys with a couple of
rights? He booked, like, three weeks solo rights for us, like
he didn't have to do that. Didn't have to do that in any
way, shape or form. But, man, you're so thankful the songs
that were born out the relationships amazing. You know?
Wow, I
appreciate it. And it's like I don't feel like I did a thing,
but it's like these little gestures you can make during
your lifetime can affect a trajectory of
I mean, it's certainly affected how,
I mean, after, like, if I come to Tasmania, I got a place to
stay, you know,
door is open. I
always say that, yeah, funerals are going to be either people
are there for the true, they want to honor the person and
really, you know, be there and it's going to be kind of that
thing, or funerals could be networking events, right? I
think in Rich's case, it's going to be, you know, the first
option. I mean, you've been so good to people over the years.
So good man, you're gonna have it. You're gonna have an
outpouring, yeah,
man, like it's hopefully it's not soon,
many, many years, many, many
years, you have gone above and beyond for us. And, like some of
them, songs that were born in them, riding trips, like a sad
song. Well, I
learned stuff. You guys helped me learn how to craft a song.
And, you know, because I'm not a Guitar Hero, I just, you know, I
think it's, I think drum all drummers could be natural
writers, because we're, we're in the best seat in the house
taking it all in, you know, the whole, the whole vibe of an
organization. And you guys were nice enough to ask me to come
play drums on this crazy life. And I went back, this is coming
up on, God, it's gonna be 10 years later. Wow. How could that
be? I was listening to it like, man, these songs are great.
These arrangements, the mix is nice. Luke Wooten, sometimes you
can let something air out. You give it some space, you revisit
it, and you're like, This is straight up, like, Steve rural
Mellencamp, like, like, it's a good record, guys, what? I
thought it's pretty good. I
definitely know what you mean with letting it air out. And
that that record, particularly, that's one for me, that in the
recent years I've gone back, we did pretty good.
Job well done. I agree. And all of those songs came from that
writing trip, which is a really cool so that record is like a
little piece of time. It's not like your first album
we came over. We had nothing, yeah, and I don't think anything
we had ideas. I think we were touring really hard before we
came over, and then it adorned on us. Oh, you're going to
Nashville tomorrow to write and then record. Oh God. But so no,
that is, as you say, Tom a real capturing that moment in that
chapter. And, yeah, obviously very special. So glad to have
you as a part of Oh man. And
it was just like, Rich is in the studio. We just love when Rich
is like, proper. Oh, he's just an energy do a table, but you
give it a bit more big feels they need, like
there's some big
thrown backwards, a song that's really that's been in a set
since that day, and it will be forever. And you played on that
one and that, you know, I remember you coming out after
that one, just covered in sweat. Yeah? I
think you bought, like, 4t shirts.
I bring a shirt for every song. Yeah, you do. That's
good. I mean, that is a massive part of why that song's so cool.
You can't program that.
So wait a minute, you change your shirts between song
recordings. Yeah, you
do that all the time. Sometimes, if it's a nice Americana thing
or, you know, a sweet, you know, troubadour girl, you know, and
we're it's brushes, probably not, but they're always there in
case it gets heated. And they're like, all right, rich, a little
bit more. Tommy Lee, and then, then you got to change the
shirt. Yeah,
you can't have a fan on you, because it's going to be picked
up by the mics.
Nick is so right though, you can't, you know, I know we live
in a time where you can program everything and basically not
touch an instrument to record, but he can't replicate feel.
Feels so great, and that's because there was a guy in the
studio working in his absolute all, yeah, literally,
out of it all you guys, man, just, just bringing, bringing
that, you know, that passion, and that's a big part of your
your sound and your lineage, is that, that country rock vibes.
And then there are some departures, you know, some
programming, Poppy type stuff, yeah. And then you had this
record, well, the first one you got, it's on 2013 nothing but
trouble. 2014 got a live record, live at CMC rocks. 2015 this
crazy life we just talked about, country hard. 2018 now this kids
on cassette, 2021 and live in the dream. 2023 is the latest
one kids on the set cassette is that that was kind of a little
bit of a tip of a hat to, like, New Wave you've got to and I
think
that was, that was during covid. We were putting that one
together, started before, and then we didn't scrap a lot of
it. But we're like, no, don't I think that's totally where we
want to
head. That was the lockdown, yeah?
A lot of, like, I was doing a lot of at home, piecing it
together with what we've done. Johnny gasparic In Canada, we
would send stuff to him. He would do stuff. You know, Matt
fell at home. She's at home. Lindsay rhymes over here. So
that was a real like through the internet collab. I really liked
that album. Somehow it came together. And I think it works
as an album, but, you know, it very easily couldn't off because
it was so random. Yeah, you know. But be proud of that one.
But we've got to say, after that, our kind of instinct and
kind of reaction was like, Okay, we did that. We want to get
back. To what we do basics now feel like we scratch that itch.
And so, you know, living the dream, we've got a new producer,
Rob McCormack, who's a guy we've worked with on different things
with Lee Kernighan over the years, and always had such mad
respect for him, because he's like, we say rod is God,
basically, he's like, a banjo, champion, mandolin,
phenomenon. Guitar, I'm not saying this best musicians
anywhere on this encountered in this play. So you
gotta go to the LA of us.
Rod, this is we've got the golden mentioned, the golden
guitar, golden guitar awards. We've got nine of it, but
there's rod's got more. There's this golden guitar performance
from the mid 90s. You can find it on YouTube and having a bit
of a guitar off. And the players are rod McCormick, Tommy Manuel,
a young Keith Urban, and I want to say Albert, Albert Lee,
Albert Lee, and they're having this guitar off. I mean, you're
talking about some of the greatest players, and rod just
wipes the floor, yeah? Like, he's just phenomenal. So gone
back to him for living the dream, and just said, We want to
make a country rock record. And that was, like, a pleasure,
yeah? A
pleasure for us, absolutely delightful, you know. And but
even that, we were fly. Dave was flying, shooting the drums in
from his studio in Melbourne. Nice. And then what we've what
we're doing now, we're in the midst of recording another one
with Rod, but we're like, you know what? Like, everyone's
programming drums or sending them remotely. We play really
well as a band. Why? Why are we not like, in the studio
together, doing what we do best,
I think covid and everything kind of
happening now you guys are
done, like, done seven songs like that, back in the room,
back and that's kind of, that's the first time we've done that
since crazy life. Yeah, you know, great, yeah, we
got the new one coming out.
Essentially, seems like such a no brainer. Don't know why. I
don't know. Like, I
think doing this, you creatively go different ways. Like, if
you'd ask us at the time when we were making, when we did country
heart, we were really ready to do that out try something. And
when we did kids on cassette, we like, we really wanted to, like,
try some retro wave pop things. I know that sounds weird, but
that's creative, that we were like, Yeah, I wanted that sounds
so it's
been a little blessing and a curse that our musical tastes
are so broad. Yeah, you know, I think in some ways, maybe we
have, would have been more successful if, if we were just
in the country, yeah, you know. But then again, maybe not. I
think that's kind of the beauty as well, is that we've had all
these other instruments, influences and stuff we've been
into and drawn on them and and, I
mean, like, it's art, like, you can't, I mean, we could,
probably could just make the, you know, there's a lot of
artists who make the same album, like, over and over again. Like,
we don't really want to do that. Like, I'm, I'm very proud of
everything we've done, and I can sort of go back to those moments
in time to go when we made that that was us being our most
authentic self. So, yeah, so that's
the the records are this beautiful snapshot in time, this
body of work. It's, yeah, it's this 10 year journey starting in
2013 and now 2023 and then you get to cherry pick all the
greatest from each record and put them together for that Matt
live show. Yeah,
it's hard to get set lists together now, yeah, that's just
set it and forget it for the year.
It's always the staples. But it is nice to have those slots in
the set where you bring something back, yeah, and you
say, kind of, see, online, maybe people will be asking for a tip,
you know, one song kind of have a little bit of a cult moment
where, like, there's a song red dress, and a lot of people
online, like, you never play red dress. So
we're bringing that one back lately. And that's like, off our
second album was never, never single, you know, just so, yes,
it's
nice to do those things, and for our benefit as well as, you
know, people want to hear those, those kind of deeper cuts, which
is really nice. Yeah, there's, I mean, there's nothing in the big
machine that, you know, sends people to the deep cuts these
days. Obviously, it's, you know, the singles on the playlist the
radio, whatever, like, that's, it is nice that people take the
time to listen to the album.
It is nice. You know, that song, you guys have damn good mates.
It reminds me of Tracy Lawrence as you find out who your friends
are, right? But, and it's, it's culturally, it's like, mates.
It's like, you know, that's a specific thing to your country.
Oh,
well, like that was one we did. Never expected to like, do as
now it was done for Lee Kernighan, 25th anniversary. And
for people to know who Lee is, Lee is, like, the best way to
describe Lee Kun. He's like, the Garth Brooks of Australia. So
he, we were his band for like, yeah, he's an icon. We did,
like. Up. We were his live band and his opening act for like, a
decade, amazing. So which was, it was going to be one tour, the
first it was going to be one tour, and ended up being 10
years. We just had this wonderful relationship. Nick's
written a bunch of stuff, recorded a bunch of stuff with
him, that 25th anniversary album. We we all recorded that
with him together in the studio. So that was, that was
relationship we'd never because we were fans. Like, Lee is,
like, the Australian country king. You know, he's singing
like, songs, like, she's my ute and Outback club and boys from
the bush. And when you're like, 17 country kid in Tasmania,
like, yeah, you can absolutely we used to go to his gigs at the
casino and, like, get kicked out because we'd be like, trying to
stage dive,
been the most wonderful working relationship, wonderful
friendship. And it was actually Lee's ideas, like, I want to do
this, damn good mates together. So I think that really, really
sort of SUS our relationship, friendship, and it's really
connected, like it's even we saw him recently, and he's like,
Jesus, that one, just that one just shot out of the gate. And
see that's in every set forever. So where,
where was the 10 years? Was it pre 2013
so he No. So during all
of this, during he saw us on Australia's Got Talent. So 2012
we went on, Australia's Got Talent, I don't want to say,
reluctantly, but, but going on reality TV was probably not part
of the plan. Yes, prior to
that, we were in Tasmania. We're basically a cover band. Had one
original EP out with a few songs that was country rock, you know,
very influenced by the early stuff and but we could not get
arrested outside of Tasmania, like, just couldn't get a gig.
You know, no one. Why would they want to get a band from Tasmania
when there's all other guys doing this? Yeah, so we're
working with a manager at the time. And she said, Well, maybe,
you know, have a go at Australia's Got Talent. We don't
want to do that. We want to make it on our own. But what changed
your mind?
Well, she said something really interesting. She said she's
like, I can't get you booked for any gigs, like outside of
Tassie, if you go on the TV show, if you do a half good
audition, she said, like, that's national TV. It's national
exposure. There'll be a good clip of you playing live that'll
exist on the internet forever. She's, like, all of a sudden, I
might be able to get, instead of getting $1,000 a gig, I might be
able to get you five grand, and I'll be able to get your
festival spots. And we went, Oh, okay.
What
have we got to lose? And, you know, the stars aligned a bit
because that year, they were wanting to put a focus on
original music. And I think we did, I think we did five or six
performances, and we only had to do one cover and had to do one
cover song, which is pretty amazing, really, yeah, they met.
They sort of really wanted us to do bigger riches, save a horse,
right? Okay, so we did that, I think, in our second and that
worked in our favor. That was huge at the time, and not
thinking with Australia, countries, not really mainstream
as it is here. So, you know, if country gets a look in on
mainstream TV, there'll always be a bit of a tone of, like,
well, let's wheel out the hay bales. You know, it's not taken
seriously.
Let's get the boots scooting. Yeah, you know. But there's
always a huge fan base of country, yes, like, massive, you
know. But for some reason weird thing doesn't it's a bit of the
poor cousin on mainstream, you know, so, but when we played
save a horse, you know, everyone's like, Oh yeah, okay,
yeah, yeah.
It's a rock song.
We're in this, yeah. Like, people,
people would come to gigs and like, Oh, you didn't write that.
Oh, wow. I was like, no, no, no. No. And ironically, when we did
the performance, there's the breakdown section, and it's like
having ourselves a big and rich time, yeah. And I said, I want
to say wolf brothers time. And the producers like, No, you
can't. They said, unless you get written permission, you can't
say that. So we, like, made it our mission. And this lady,
Sharon, who was like, helping us and managing us. At the time,
she got in touch with big and Rich's team said, wow, boys are
going, Australia's Got Talent. They're going to do this. They
love the song. It'll be good for the song. All they want to do is
say, having ourselves a wolf brothers time, got the letter
back, went straight the executive producers.
The other thing we did, too, just, I don't know how this
evolved, but the ending we used to do for save a horse was we
borrowed a little riff from Pantera cowboys from hell.
Yeah. Literally did that and then so that kind of had its own
thing. Because, you know, all the metal guys sitting at home,
like, what was this guy actually messaged me recently. Who
remembered it?
Were you guys Pantera fans? Like, did you catch him on the
latest tour with the, I guess the tribute cover act that
they've
done, well, personally, I thought it was done very
tastefully. So yeah, yeah, they
picked good guys,
great guys. And, you know, there was a huge kind of tribute to
diamond and Vinnie, weird story of that. So they were a big band
for me growing up, and I never got to see him in the original
lineup. So, of course, I went along, so I'm in Brisbane. Loved
it. They had a few technical issues. The PA kind of died
midway through the first song, and, yeah, which was pretty
unfortunate, but then they got it back, and it was pretty good.
I
mean, you got Benante and drums playing that game, yeah, wild on
guitar, speaking of which, you know, because they did tour with
Metallica. That was the first leg of that tour. Yeah, in
Metallica keeps coming up on this podcast. You were
mentioning covers before you know what I was I thinking. It
hit me the other day in the shower. I said, you know, if
anybody wanted this really kind of, you know, hit it big and
become real mainstream, kind of like, What? What? Luke combs.
Luke combs. He did the Tracy Chapman song. Yeah, what? If
nothing else matters was redone. Yeah, never thought about,
I actually have had that
thought through. Yeah, another sign from the universe, although
I feel like the thing with Metallica. Like, pretty hard to
do. If you're not Metallica, like, you're gonna get a lot of,
a lot of hate, you know, like, yeah, as a Metallica fan, like,
if, pretty much, if I heard anyone else, I'd be like that,
yeah. So I think yeah, just to get back on that, on the Pantera
thing. So went to see him the next morning I'm flying home,
and, you know, I was feeling I was on a real high, because this
is a band that was a pivotal part of my guitar playing, oh
yeah, learning and, you know, and I'm obviously still ripping
off dime bag licks and stuff like that. So standing in line
aboard the plane, I looked down at my feet, and there's two
guitar picks. And look a bit closer, and it's they've got
dimes face and vinny's face on these guitar picks. Right? Real.
I'm not looking around thinking like, is someone playing a joke
on me or something, you know, and just all you know, business
guys boarding the plane, so I pick him up, I'm still looking
around. Like, anyway, like, I put it on Facebook that night,
or whatever, and like, all the Pantera guys are like, wow.
Like, because I thought maybe you can just buy them. Like,
Surely no one would be so careless if, like, they were the
pigs from stage, their pants must have, must have pigs from
stage.
Did you guys ever think about putting stuff like that into
your set when you're playing like, you know, just sometimes a
little out of left field, Pantera cover. What
we do? We do a couple of little cover things in the show. We
have this thing we call the ausmid So another big part of
our sort of sound, and where we come from, is Australian pub
rock, right? So Ax listeners will probably know is, like, in
excess. Yeah, there's a couple of bands you probably know,
Midnight Oil too. But other bands in Australia, like the
angels, they didn't make it as big over here, Cold Chisel,
incredible, incredible band culture, uh, Cold Chisel. Cold
Chisel. Yeah, sorry, it's my Australian accent. Great. There
was such a wonderful Australian pub scene in the 80s, but this
just the radiator, so so much the vinyl, so much good music
came out of Yeah. That is such a big part of Australian culture
scene. Like, if the if you're doing cover gigs and pub shows.
You're playing a lot of that stuff, really. So we they're all
anthemic stuff. So we do, like, it's like, about eight minutes
long, and we've put, like, six, seven of them together in one
sort of eight minute song. And it is, like, the most fun to
play live. Like, if you don't feel proud to be Australian
after that. I don't know what's going on. So, so yeah, we do a
little bits and pieces like that. We jam bits and pieces at
sound check. But, I mean, we got six albums, yeah, and
predominantly, like, predominantly, people want to
hear us,
but it's cool to kind of like, you make that connection, and
it's so much more because a lot of metal guys, a lot of hard
rock guys like me that grew up with that music now, country is
that pill? Yeah?
I think we, the way we do it is not like we're not, we're not
playing like a Pantera roof, but right, you know, we'll,
we'll a little, we're
doing a solo that'll be a complete, yeah, Dimebag ripoff,
yeah?
So that's fun. Well. Me
ask you this, because I heard you guys were, you know, before
you're gonna perform a song here, hopefully, when the guy
finishes weed whacking,
you got
to make sure the lawn looks good. The you guys played a
little bit before we went live, so to speak. And I'm like, Oh my
gosh, you can't, you can't tell you from Australia, you know,
you have you got, you got the rubber band thing going on?
That's, can you speak like that? No, like, if you had to, can you
sound American? Speak
American? Can you speak American? No, really, great
question.
I can, kind of like, do it. I have a character that I go like,
you know, do you guys want me sodas.
Because here's the thing, it's like, I've tried to do like
British. I do a lot of voiceover for British is awful for me, and
so is I mean, my Australian is not very good. I sound like
freaking ring. But
those Australian actors that call the water, they come over
and you cannot
have so much American TV. And you know, so we've heard Chris
Hemsworth.
Chris Hemsworth in Red Dawn, yeah, you can tell Yeah. Mike,
okay, you're trying too hard. Yeah, sure.
The one I used to do was a lady when we played one of the shows
over here, we did a cover of dust on the bottle. She said,
can you say my name? Oh, yeah, what's your name? Darlene. Oh,
good on you. Darlene, oh, my God,
when you guys played dust on the bottom, when
you guys play Creole Williams,
play Creole circuit
over here. Yeah, and we toured all through the Midwest doing a
bunch of like we did some really cool gigs. I'm for Dustin Lynch.
Young band got to play, I think it's country concert in Ohio,
which is like 40,000 people. Yeah, got to do some really cool
festivals. And then we'd do one of those, and then the next
night, we'd go and play next to a corn dog stand, yeah, in the
middle of nowhere. So, like we we saw a lot of this country, in
particular the Midwest,
and loved it absolutely
so much by bus. But when you're in a back home and you're
touring in Australia, it's impossible. Yeah,
bus touring is not really a thing. There's been guys that
have tried to do it, but I think maybe the fuel costs, the road
infrastructure, it just doesn't end up well.
If you break down in the middle of nowhere, you're attacked by a
legion of muscular kangaroos. That's a risk.
Yeah, basketball
sized spiders. The
Go is basically we fly into a major city, rent a van, maybe a
trailer, a couple of vans, and go from there, do a circuit,
come back out, fly out of that. Now,
can you trust David as a driver, or is he the typical drummer
that do not let the drum dress drive? That's
pretty good. Why
do you not let the drummer? Well,
just we're dreamers, and we just start daydreaming and easily,
and that's the I would have to drive. I'm a driver control
thing.
Brody's very solid driver. Brody, you
feel safe with Brod at the wheel? Yeah,
I'm good for like, half an hour. Then I'm like, are we gonna open
the show?
Go ask her this emails and that then someone else has to drive.
So, funny enough, he has to do a lot of emails when we pack up at
the end of the night. Do
you guys detect like, when they hit the rumble strips of the
road and, like, yes, hit it like, three times in the last
five minutes. You gotta, we gotta change
our roads are just not like what it is here. Like you can get on
the interstate here and drive to another city and like, it's just
not like that in Australia, and especially playing in country.
Like we go really regional. We'll go to a town that's like,
four people are there, you know, and we go play the races or the
fair or the show or whatever it is. So we're very lucky in that
regard, that we get to go to these places, and often that
those gigs for those places are the event of the year, yeah. So,
like, we get to see some really cool, really cool things. But,
you might be driving on a road that's like two lanes, no lions,
doing that for 200 days. So we have a because Tazzy is an
island, so we have all our gear. And Tazzy, we also have a bunch
of gear in Sydney, so we can, you know, if we fly to Sydney,
we can put stuff in vans and trucks and take it out from
there. So, yes, it's what's just what we know like, it's just how
we know how to
what are some and I know Jim would probably like to hear
this, but straight from the horse's mouth, what are some
common misconceptions about Australian life and culture?
I think that the all the animals you know going to kill you or
their. Three every turn. You know, it's pretty dangerous
animals, obviously,
koala bears,
you guys have equally as dangerous animals, for sure. You
know, the brown
recluse. You have to watch out for that in your Airbnb, yeah,
like the stuff, like this spiders and there's snakes and
stuff. But it's not like you're not going down to, like the
local Kroger there, you know, like, you
gotta be out. It's not Crocodile Dundee.
And there is, there is areas where there's crocodiles and
stuff. Like, we recently went up to Darwin, which is up the top
of top end of Australia, and there's not gonna
go swim in there. You
don't go on the beach. Those are great weights, great whites
across crocodiles will take you on the beach. But you know, you
know that there's signs, it's like, like, lethal
jellyfish. That's the thing is,
maybe there is a bit of
where we are in Tassie, you can go the beaches, and it's like,
you're not going to have that. And if there is, I mean, you
touch woods, occasional shark.
The other thing was, to some people said to me the other
night, so like in covid, like the government was shooting
people, weren't they? Yeah, that didn't happen. Look, they locked
down like Melbourne, and particularly in Victoria was, I
think it was the most locked down place in the world. And,
you know, completely over the top and sucked. But they weren't
killing people. They weren't shooting people
with the lockdown. People could go grocery shopping, or they
had, there
was a bunch of different rules. Like, you could go grocery
shopping or to get food and think, and then a lot of the
rules contradicted, you know, like we could talk about, talk
about for hours, which are not that over the moon. I hate
talking about it, so that wasn't great. And the other
misconception, coming from Tazzy, coming from Tazzy, people
always, like, ask us about the Tasmanian devil, yeah, like the
Tasmanian
it's a real thing. So, like, a it's kind
of like a big cat. It's probably like a
honey badger. Yeah, that'd be
a big one. It'll be a big one. Yeah, they have a, like, a
terrifying roar, yeah. So they're basically a scavenger
animal, you know. But I guess if you heard, if you were, like an
early settler, and you were, you know, set up a camp in the
wilderness, and you're sitting there and you heard this thing
roaring, you'd be absolutely Oh,
my God, terrifying. Yeah. So, like, we got a friend,
they don't like spin in a tornado. Slight embellishment,
hunting kangaroos really common at home. Like it would be deer
here, and I've got a friend who hunts kangaroo. Discover
population control. Yeah, there's like 40, 50 million
kangaroos. 40, 40 million. There's like four kangaroos to
every one person everywhere. So they're constantly
flexing. Yeah, they're just jacked.
So where we where we live? Main one who's gonna farm up the
road, he hunts a lot of kangaroo. And you know, the bits
he doesn't use, he will just throw out to and leave for the
devils. And, like he said, you can listen to the middle of
night and they come
in and it's like, it's like, terrifying, absolutely,
I've seen
nothing. They'll eat every bit you don't see a lot of them. I
reckon I've only probably seen on our farm. I've seen two, seen
two in our farm, in our life. So what's
the misperceptions you heard about America
before? Something pretty, pretty spot on this perception. Like,
we've spent a lot of time in this country. So, like, we I
love it over here. I love like, the people have been so good. I
mean, geez,
have you been to New York? I
mean, haven't been to New York? Only been to LA for like, a day.
You may change your mind
more into the vibe of over here, down here, than LA, yes, yeah,
for us, but going
through the Midwest, like, playing all those places, like,
all of those people were like, salt of the earth, the earth.
Like, if we could have said, can we have your car so we can drive
up, they'd be like, yeah, oh, yeah. Did
you ever get to Miami or South Florida? No, no.
I never did that. Lots, a lot to
explore still. Yeah.
I mean, we sort of based here. We wrote and record music, and
then we jump in our Chevy Trailblazer with our trailer and
head off to Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah, Pudge
cargo, you weren't that fond of Chicago. Wasn't
a massive fan of Chicago? No, it wasn't mine. Pretty good. Wasn't
my scene. The big cities are not found a very quiet, frightening
misconception I had, coming from Tasmania, it can be quite cold,
like, well, I thought, yeah, I'll be right. When we're in
Chicago, we had like, half a day off, and I thought, well, I'm
probably, I don't know if I'm going to get back here, so I'm I
put a jacket on, I said I'm going to go for a little walk.
And I got outside the hotel, and I was like, when. I could not
breathe. The
coldest I've been to this day was in Wisconsin. Oh gosh,
walking from the car to the hotel room a Tundra. Oh, it was
like, it would have died if it had, like, the middle of
winters.
I was like, minus
you guys get the seasons in Australia, or is this mostly
just warm, yeah,
I guess I was gonna say they're less extreme, but that's that's
not true, because, I mean, we have cyclones, we have droughts,
bushfires and everything like that, but that's just different.
Like, I mean, around here, you know, as we were coming in
before, like, there's so much more timber, or lumber, as you
guys call it, yeah, houses, because the trees grow, like,
everything so fast, like, everything's so green. It's
Miller summer and, like, it's green as, like, middle of
summer, typically, in a lot of Australian places, is dry,
dusty, yeah, you know. But, like, harsh, but where
we are in Tassie in winter, it's more probably, like New Zealand,
ish, yeah, we might get one snow at our farm during temperature,
mild, temperate, mild, you know. But then you go right up north,
and it's really quite tropical, yeah, you know, they'll have a
wet season and a dry season, you know. And there's, like, six
months where it's just going to be, like, it's
so funny to think about, like, you know, the earth is a globe,
you know, flat.
It's not okay. You guys want
to talk about that,
not to talk about
that? It's just just so exciting, man, you came. You
made dreams come true. You're popular. Where else have you
guys done any like, Have you hit Europe or South Africa?
So like I spoke to you a little bit about our journey, like our
journey, you know, becoming this is the mecca for what we do come
from music. So we spent many years coming here, living here,
doing all that stuff. Just before covid, we signed with
broken bow. We had the meetings with like John and Lynette, and
they're like, you know, we put up a million dollars for radio
single. We believe in you guys. We believe in you as writers.
Terrifying like it was terrifying. Oh my god. They're
like, you know, we want to do this, you know. And they are
really global company, so they're like, We want you to
sign with BMG Australia. We're going to do this. We're going to
bring you over on tours. We're going to do the same in
Australia, bring people over. So we're thinking like, oh my god,
we're gonna be out the road with you. Oh my god, we're gonna be
with our dean. And would have been amazing. And we signed that
a month before covid. So we were about to sign an international
deal. We're about to go to Canada and do like 35 shows. We
admit the labels and stuff there. We're about to set up
sort of a base there. Have a base here, have a base at home,
and start sort of taking over the world, and then covid hit,
and it just all, it just, it just didn't like, it just didn't
happen. And, I mean, that's so it's no one's fault. Like, I saw
John lobar the other night, and he was, I come up, give me a
cut. Always. I love you boys. He's still family to us, and he
said, just is what it is like. You
have to, kind of like, rely on the fact that everything happens
for a reason, definitely,
you know. And it actually hasn't been. We haven't been upset
about it at all, like, some fantastic things happen during
those years. We couldn't go anywhere with covid. Tom's now
got two amazing kids. Yeah,
that's what you were up to.
Yeah, start your touring musicians. Stay at home for a
little while. You have two kids. So
I bought my own farm in the north of Tassie, and then kind
of like, well, I don't think we want to really come back over
here and start from zero again. And yeah, and do it, we really
want to solidify in Australia and be one of those bands that's
always going to be part of the landscape, if you want to, if
you're going to go see live music this year, we want, we
were going to be one of the guys, Yeah, beautiful.
And actually, it's been a little bit, it's almost been a little
bit liberating in that regard, because it's sort of like, well,
you know, we're we're very proud Australians. Yes, love our
country. Love the people in our country. It's like, well, let's
just be here, and let's write songs that are really for
Australian people. Like, if we've got a new single coming
out in July, and it's way more Australian than maybe some of
this stuff we've done before. Some people that pub rock
influence in it so
well. And the other good thing is, I think the Australian
country radio landscape isn't as everything's not chasing exactly
what's the hot thing right now, there's room for a bunch of
different that's great sub sub genres, whatever everyone's
version of country is. That's all on the on the chart, and all
on the station, you know, so and accepted by the fans. Really,
yeah,
really accepted by the fan. There's
nothing wrong with owning the owning. Love
that about it. I love that about it. And actually, it spun me out
a little bit to be back over here, like, as Tom said, the
thing we've we're about to put out, is very us, but it sounds
nothing like what's the hot. 20 on American nothing.
It's interesting. Yeah, interesting because I think
there's, there's definitely a shift in culture happening,
yeah, certainly right now. And I'll give you guys an edge if
you want to be the next hot thing or start writing the next
hot trend of country songs, pay attention to what they wrote in
the 40s and 50s. Tonality wise, lyric wise,
because Jim is a theory. Yes, Angel
pendulum books right over there. Yeah. Well,
okay, all right, explain it really quick. Okay,
so basically, every 80 or every 40 years, we go through cultural
shifts. Right now, we just finished a zenith of what we
call a we where we're kind of like a every time the pendulum
comes to a zenith, it's when we take it a good thing too far.
Right now we just went through the darkest part of the 80 year
swing. So we're on the downswing from a we going back to a
tipping point, which is going to in the next 40 years, is going
to culminate to a me. Last time it happened was 1983 and the
tipping point into the last me was started in 1963 a lot of
people think of the 60s, right? Yes. Think 60s were really 1963
to 1969 Yeah, right. So if you think about all the things that
happen, a lot of people, there's different cultural attitudes
that go along with these cultural swings. So very
captivating. So
what's the versus me? So I would think that me would be bad.
No, no, no, none of them are good or bad.
It's typically like we are, you know, it's about us, and me is
like, I don't care what it's,
I'm gonna pull it up here. So, man,
didn't expect
it's really intriguing. So Upswing we values where we the
upswing from Oh, three to 23 is what we just went through,
responsibility, humility, thoughtfulness, conformity,
authenticity, which has been a big word, yep, and transparency.
So just be real with me. Let's all collectively come together.
So when we take something too far, which is what we've just
been through. Yes, we literally lived through 1943 all over
again in the last year. So now we're coming back the down the
other side. That's true. All those values become duty,
obligation, sacrifice, regimentation, self,
righteousness and oppressiveness.
You have the world through that.
It's crazy, man.
It's really, really, no, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be gone
search this and listen to this pendulum.
I'll show you the book, the author on the podcast years ago,
years,
years. That was one of the Zooms that we did. Yeah, Michael drew
Friday is gonna love this. Yep,
I love that. But, I mean, that's right now, is when the voices in
the wilderness start coming out. So the people that are going to
start pulling that pendulum,
well, like we will do this, we're Tasmanians.
Yeah. You know, if you start writing songs that resonate with
how people are going to start thinking,
Well, I'll tell you what we have done, and it's been lovely, and
it's been liberating. This trip is we've just sort of gone
because we're not coming over here to be here and try and get
a radio hit here. We're just like, we're just going to write
things we just really enjoy and like even the song we wrote with
you, one of the lyrics is from fnq to all the way down south.
Now what we're saying, Australians understand we're
saying fnq is far north Queensland, from Far North
Queensland all the way down to south to Tassie So, and when
we've thrown those out in the writing rooms, guys like, you're
like, is that? Like, no, no, that's that's
us, that's us.
It feels great. Like, I feel Yeah, really, really, the
pressure's
off. So, and you've proven yourself, and you could just
exist in your own skin. And there's something very
comfortable and incredible about being the big fish where you
are. Yeah,
look, it's not even so much that, like I it's few things got
cemented for me this trip. You know, just artists who are just
fully themselves, exploding, like saw Cody Johnson at CMA
fest, and that guy is him. There's no, you know, he started
off with an intro tape with all these Texas songs. I thought,
Man, this is this guy's cool came out. He had like, a knife
on his belt. This guy doesn't care what anyone thinks. And
that was the loudest people were in that stadium all night, like
they just, I think people are seeing that. I think that's one
of the positives with the internet and the way we are
connected now. I think people see it. I think people are
seeing a lot more. I think we're seeing a lot more crap, and that
we probably shouldn't right, but when something like that, stuff
like that, can cut through, because I don't know, like, he
probably wouldn't have been able to cut through in the industry,
in the way the industry and the record industry is here 10 years
ready, or still a
main driver of everything? I'm so unplugged from. It's been 20
seems to be, I mean, it seems to be, but I've, I've noticed this
trip. I don't think a lot of the writers have drawn as much for
that, because you're seeing right explode. And how else can
I get exposure? Yeah, well, if something blows up on tick tock
and you. YouTube in Tiktok. Look at
what's his name, the guy who blew up, gosh, old man brain
here the men from up north. He was Oliver,
yeah, Oliver, Anthony, right? Well, that's a great example.
There's a guy like, singing a song that he 100% believes,
right? That's pendulum.
That's a boy. I'm saying he's a voice in the world,
yeah? Like, I mean, like, Who would have ever thought that? So
it's like, for me, I'm just going back to everything we do
now. It's like, I'm gonna really rely on my gut instincts, yeah?
And if it doesn't feel right there, obviously, we're a group,
so, you know. But I'm always gonna say, hey, just, you know,
gut check. This doesn't feel great. Let's talk about it,
because we've definitely done things like in the past, where
labels have gone, this is, this is the smack. This is, this is
going to take us to the world. And we've kind of gone, no,
okay, okay, we'll go with it. But yeah, it's not, it's not
having
Cody Johnson. Mean, yeah, I mean he's just doing he wants to do.
He's he is authentic. He's a super nice guy. I mean, some,
some stylists probably got a hold of him. He was like, Hey,
you're gonna put you in these black skinny jeans? He's like,
No, I got the wranglers with the crease down the middle and giant
belt buckle. Yeah, he's just doing his thing, uh,
loving it. Yes, I
would be a publicist. Worst nightmare. I just want to wear,
you know, cargo pants, yeah, with a hammer holder. Well,
you know, and that's, that's definitely a thing. That's the
thing I've felt in this industry, like I'm a bigger guy,
and I've had people to tell me to lose weight and do this, and
sees my language, I don't
give a fuck, right?
And if you don't like me, fuck off.
Okay, but here's the thing, is that you're you also have the
you loom large. So you're a very tall person. You have a presence
when you walk in a room. And I love the fact that you're
bringing back
the hair he jumbles as a must the muscle of the bag,
but you're bringing back the hairy chest, buddy for all us
guys, I
just, I never I just can't. You can't shave your
chest. You
don't care you guys what I
am gonna hide it or try and change it. Or do you even
wearing
the necklace that draws the attention to
it? I wear this, I got this bit made, but our pop was in the
Navy. Yeah, really good, man. I don't really have tatters, so
I've got that mine. You definitely
have the look, though, when you walk into a room that people go,
okay, who's that guy?
I know that. Thank you. Lot worse said
about you walked in and I was waiting on rich before you got
here, and it's like, Hey, I
feel short. All of a sudden. He goes, he goes, he goes. You
know, when you walk into a room as short as you are, people
still probably think of the hair or something like, Who is that
guy that I never said that you were short, but, but, no, I
added that but, but he was like, you really got to stop driving
that Honda. So this guy convinces me to buy an expensive
car. It was nice, and now I'm ruined, because once you take an
expensive car, it is like when the door closes, German cars,
like, Oh, my
engineering, incredible. You hear the German culture in that.
It's like nine. I thought
you're going to stay in there. Now,
yesterday was from Munich. It was like, great. It was like, it
was really, really fun. So I got to hear all about, you know, the
Munich music scene, the German music scene, everything. Listen,
I'm gonna lighten the mood just a second. Remember when we were
at Calypso cafe and those two people came in. Eric talked to
one, and there was this lady, and I kept and it's so unlike
me, I wanted to be like, Oh, how are you how are you doing? I
couldn't remember who she was. It was my old eye doctor. You
see somebody out of context? I never have seen her anywhere
other than wearing a white lab coat. Yeah, staring into my
pupils. That's
totally a thing you can you got to have the surroundings on.
Yeah? Hey, we're gonna play
a song, but hey, really quickly, the Fast Five, favorite the fast
it's never fast. But favorite five, favorite color,
I'm orange. Wow, okay, yeah,
that's weird.
We got just black. Man, black. TSH, yeah, okay, I
would never wear orange. But favorite drink,
favorite drink
at home, we have a beer called cascade Largo, which we call
cascode blue. And that's, that's, is
a strong high octane, or is it normal? It's
a little bit higher than normal, but it's, you need to bring it
back here. We'll have you. Government won't let us. Oh,
really, I
tried to bring some over some friends. So talk to you really,
government. Let's sort that out. Interesting. Well, I
live in the north, so I have to say Bogues red, which is their
rival. Oh, okay, so that's a rivalry that goes back to the
two colonial sediments of Tasmania. So wow, yeah, one day
there's Civil War, and I'll leave the army to the north and
I'll be in the South. I love.
Okay, so what about, like, your favorite type of food or
favorite dish? Oh,
man, we have indulged over here, over here, like we love Cracker
Barrel. Oh, really, I heard they're closing. No, well, I'm
gonna buy the franchise, whatever. But we just love, we
love the sauce. So the breakfast. Love the breakfast.
Love the biscuits. Love they
call this shit on the shingle, which is the biscuits and gravy.
Yeah, yeah, it's a US meal. Great
thing. I've
really enjoyed the Mexican over here, sure, so we don't really
have at that in Australia,
but what's the spot do you guys go to here?
This time with Tony, and I've enjoyed agaves that's been
that's been delicious.
Briley, okay,
right by the dealership, Mercedes, dealership, right.
Yeah, tonight. But all I know is when I walked out on voluntary,
the found myself saying that was the best food I've had. Very
nice
agave. So we're gonna go there. We'll go there and write bread.
And now this is people find it very, very difficult, but, and
this could be based on just because you love the artist, you
love the production, or you love the melody, the the story. What
is a song that this thing comes on in the you're in your Jeep in
the outback, and you just crank that thing up, man,
I know mine. I'm a Beatles fanatic, and I think abbroids
the greatest album ever made, in particular, golden slumbers
carry that weight. The end that is, in my opinion, some of the
greatest pieces piece of music ever made. I want that play to
my funeral, just putting that out there, hopefully too many,
many years away. Yes, why? You know why the golden slumbers
starts once there was a way to get back home, would once there
was a way to get back home. It's just gives me, I just, I don't
know. I just connect with it on a well, that's on another.
That's the power of music. It is.
It's power music, amazing.
I gotta think about my funeral song. What's it gonna be? It
changes weekly for me. Yeah. So you know this at this moment,
I'm just, I've got a bit of a thing with about Bon Jovi in
these arms, some reason, just right, they make so many
production choices that didn't need to be there, but God, I'm
glad they're there's
like a B side, right? I think it was
great if hits guys, hits kind of thing. And they did a couple
extra now, did
you guys go to Premiere to see the band play?
You guys had the the opportunity to
meet as a quick because Nick hates it. But we've recently
signed back to ABC music in Australia, and our label head
NAT is was over here for CMA fest. She's just a gem. She's
our biggest supporter. She's so great. And we bumped into her
and we're having a drink, and she said, I'm going to a
listening party at Ocean away tomorrow to listen to the new
Bon Jovi app. Now we're all out at the time, and if you haven't
picked up on this podcast, I'm probably a bit more of an
extrovert than Nick. So I was a little bit drunk, and was like,
I'll come volunteering. And she's like, Well, no, it's like,
record heads. And she goes, Well, I'll ask. I'll ask. You
know, she texted the guy was organized. He said, Yeah, you
can bring a plus one. And that was me. And these, look, these
guys got to go see Shenandoah. So they were, I knew that was
that's Nick's vibe anyway. Got to listen the whole album band
came out. Got to ask him a question, which was really cool,
because ironically, before this trip, I'd watch the documentary
about Bon Jovi, and I thought, my God, these guys, obviously
they're the best, but I thought they'd write the best third
person bangers. So like examples, living on a prayer.
Tommy used to work on the docs, and Gina works at diner all day.
Someday I'll be Saturday night. You know, Hey, my name is Jim.
Where did I go wrong? My life's a bargain basement. All the good
shits gone these great characters, but yet the songs
are like anthems that are sung in stadiums. And I was like,
how? So I thought, I said, Look, I'm in a room with Bon Jovi.
This is one of my notes. I'm an artist. I get this is what I
wanted to do on the songwriting trip. Now I get to ask Bon Jovi
about it. What did he said he was really cool. First off, he
sort of said, well, some of it is experience. He said, I just
know what's going to work with the crowd, what they're going to
sing. He then said, we don't always get that right. He I
can't remember the name of the song, but he referred to a song
off the last couple of albums. He goes, I thought when we
recorded that, he said, I thought that was going to be the
next, it's my life. I thought it was going to be the next, living
on a prayer and he said, the first time we got on stage and
started playing it, it was like, the crowd were like, he's like,
God clap. He's like, I got it. You gotta get it wrong. And then
at that point, Tico Torres stepped up. I mean, I fucking
love the song. And then anyway, he just. Said, look, it's, it
has to be come from the heart. It has to be real. It has to be
true. He said, those characters exactly don't have to be exactly
real people, but they those people exist. You know, Tommy
might, I don't think the docs, but there's definitely a guy
working on the docks, yeah, who heard that and went shit, that's
me, but
it could be, you know, Tom, you know, not Tommy and Gina, but it
could be Jeff and Jennifer. Exactly, they're relating to
that song as well. I know what it's like to work, you know,
third shift, and he's out there busting his butt as an
electrician. Exactly, it was, it was
great, and it was something I wanted to do this trip. And I
think we got one, we got one, we've got one, and it was
something want to do on this trip, because when you think of
country, it's often like, about the girl, or it's about my home
or my my my feelings this Friday night, it's all very first
person, yeah, there's not much. Third Person, interesting. Maybe
that's the shift. Yeah,
I met Gina. She works on the issue. She works on the inner
workings of the JA Bon Jovi organization. I said, now, is
that you? And she goes, I'll never tell, but
it could have been, yeah, it could have been. So that was a
very, very special moment. And I think that genuinely enjoyed the
question. When I went up and got a photo, shook John's hand, he
was like, yeah, good good luck, mate. I was like, Oh, that's
sweet. Thanks. John Bonjour, seems
like a nice guy and a very, very brave documentary, to be sure.
Oh gosh, the
vulnerability of I
feel so sorry for him, because watching that documentary, it
submitted to me. I thought, these are some of the best. This
is one of the best bands, yeah, without a doubt, best
songwriters and reinventing themselves, yeah, and the fact
that those guys all came from New Jersey, and they're like,
ticos, I think one of the best drummers in the world, like
talking about power, he
kind of freaked me out, because we actually saw them back in
Vegas, where they lived there, yeah. And if you get in front of
my wife, we mentioned Jon, Bon Jovi, she'll point to her arm,
because that's where he sweat on her. They did like a side stage
thing. They would they would platoon people up, and you've
got to watch the band rock out. And it was kind of a cool thing.
You know, my radio abilities got me up there, but whatever. And
when I was up there, I was standing behind my wife, and,
you know, Richie came over, John came over, but Tico was just
staring like holes through the back. I don't
like I'm I'm going
he may have been jonesing for a cigar. Every shot in that
documentary, you got cigar or a cigarette.
I know I thought the same. Oh, my God,
he's walking through the airport smoking a cigar. Crazy. Last
question. Favorite film. It comes on, you're gonna put your
life on hold. I am finishing watching this.
I'd say,
I would say Goodfellas, a
great
movie. I'm gonna give you a very, very deep Australian cut.
And it's a movie called Sunday, too far away, and it's like a
70s it's a movie about a sheep shearer. So there's some
homework for you.
Wow. So this is just culturally. This is like your jaws close
encounters. It's like popular
now it's more. Now just, just watch it. It's
a bit of a cult, yeah thing, but there's some great early
Australia, yeah, it's good. It's nice, early, strong characters
in it that you just be like,
You guys have watched it be like, I've never
seen me like, What? Yeah, it's just another planet. Yeah, it's
good.
Okay, we got, we have to remember that. And we're gonna
do a song right now. But hey, let's we're gonna end with the
song. But you guys have the was it Wolf The wolf brothers.com,
Wolf brothers.com
you can do the Instagram, the Facebook,
doing all the stuff. Everyone. Check out the Spotify. Six
records, nine. Golden guitar awards, 19, number one
Australian country songs. Congratulations, guys.
Can I just say again how much I know you guys and thank you for
everything you've done. Thank you guys.
You deserve everything you get, mate you
thank you so much for my gift.
I had some. Yeah, I thought we should
get some. Gentlemen jack, and you guys are just assuming that
gentlemen, I
will take it lemonade. Might be a little early, but, you know,
we're Australian, so
we'll pop this after.
But this is, this is a seminal track for you guys. And if you
got any drummers out there, I am looking at a chart, because I
care this.
So this basically opens pretty much every show, yeah, every
show we open this, we almost
so rich Eric and JT, that's right, yeah. Okay, thanks boy.
Thanks, boys.
It's rude down your window.
Night moves on the radio, breakfast
in a hometown, All Oh,
take it
easy. Sunrise, by the 1000s high.
Moonlight 1000 times kind of night.
It's a drive through the desert.
Stars go
on forever.
It's beautiful. Get away saying everything you want to say,
take it
easy,
slow, ride everything. Everything
is alright. Bye.
Sick, Everything,
almost Oh.
Nice guys. So far, that is it. You heard it here. That's the
wolf brothers. The wolf brothers.com. Check them out.
Crank up the Spotify. Support them. Be a fan. Thank you guys
so much for being here. Thank
you, right? Thank
you Jim as always, man, we really appreciate your time and
talent. Jim is a secret weapon. You know something, when I when
he's not here, I miss him. He does so much with the file
management and the editing and just making all the ugly stuff
behind the scenes look sexy. Thanks, Jim and hey to all the
listeners out there. Thank you so much. Be sure to subscribe,
share, rate and review. It helps people find the podcast until
next time see ya. Thanks. Thanks, guys.
This has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe, rate and follow
along@richredman.com
forward, slash podcasts. You.