WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:08.350 --> 00:00:12.550 Travis Bader: I'm Travis Bader, and this is the Silvercore podcast. 00:00:13.380 --> 00:00:17.930 Silvercore has been providing its members with the skills and knowledge 00:00:17.949 --> 00:00:22.620 necessary to be confident and proficient in the outdoors for over 20 years. 00:00:22.710 --> 00:00:26.790 And we make it easier for people to deepen their connection to the natural world. 00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:30.439 If you enjoy the positive and educational content. 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:35.530 We provide, please let others know by sharing, commenting, and 00:00:35.530 --> 00:00:39.630 following so that you can join in on everything that Silvercore stands for. 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:43.340 If you'd like to learn more about becoming a member of the 00:00:43.340 --> 00:00:46.920 Silvercore club and community, visit our website at silvercore. 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:52.089 ca. 00:00:52.090 --> 00:00:55.019 So today I'm sitting down with a fellow within the ministry 00:00:55.019 --> 00:00:57.330 of forest, BC wildfire service. 00:00:57.605 --> 00:01:02.095 It's a senior wildfire officer of prevention within the coastal fire center. 00:01:02.305 --> 00:01:05.125 Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Alan Barry. 00:01:05.914 --> 00:01:06.335 Thank you. 00:01:06.385 --> 00:01:07.535 I appreciate the invite. 00:01:07.855 --> 00:01:09.055 Hey, I got it out first try. 00:01:09.134 --> 00:01:09.615 You nailed it. 00:01:09.674 --> 00:01:11.835 I thought I was going to have to do that one a few times. 00:01:12.464 --> 00:01:15.975 So, um, we're chatting back and forth and Kimberly's been helping out as well. 00:01:15.975 --> 00:01:17.455 She's just in the side room there, but. 00:01:18.675 --> 00:01:26.065 Last year, big year for fires or wildfires within British Columbia and within your 00:01:26.065 --> 00:01:29.635 role and your expertise, you've got a lot of different ideas and knowledge 00:01:29.655 --> 00:01:35.334 on ways that wildfires can be prevented and figured this would be a good place 00:01:35.335 --> 00:01:38.365 and good time to chat about it before we get into our next year, which is 00:01:38.405 --> 00:01:39.855 probably going to be another hot one. 00:01:40.420 --> 00:01:43.150 And if we follow the same kind of trends, having a bit of 00:01:43.150 --> 00:01:44.810 knowledge is going to be important. 00:01:44.950 --> 00:01:48.370 So really appreciate you being here on this. 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.130 Um, there I'll just figure I'll just start right from the get go. 00:01:52.759 --> 00:01:57.879 There are some high emotions about what we could be talking about here. 00:01:58.090 --> 00:02:00.440 Have you, have you felt that on your side? 00:02:01.230 --> 00:02:04.880 Alan Berry: You know, I, I think, uh, initially when we start these 00:02:04.880 --> 00:02:09.689 conversations, it's, uh, it can be sensitive, but as soon as I start. 00:02:10.125 --> 00:02:14.484 Just explaining our perspective, um, some of the background, some of the 00:02:14.484 --> 00:02:16.945 things that I've seen and, and really what the messaging that we're trying 00:02:16.945 --> 00:02:19.585 to share people, the common sense prevails and people are like, Oh, 00:02:19.585 --> 00:02:23.034 okay, you know what, tell me more, let me know, let me know what to, 00:02:23.394 --> 00:02:24.644 you know, what I can do to help out. 00:02:24.704 --> 00:02:27.844 And everybody realizes, you know, five of the last seven fire 00:02:27.844 --> 00:02:31.085 seasons have been very significant in the province here last year. 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:32.270 Really big one. 00:02:32.590 --> 00:02:36.950 And, uh, um, everybody wants to do their part and it, it impacts 00:02:37.380 --> 00:02:38.950 all corners of the province. 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.250 So, um, whatever we can do and, uh, and usually once I get to 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:46.470 start passing all the messaging here, people usually come on board. 00:02:46.869 --> 00:02:47.049 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:02:47.049 --> 00:02:51.829 And I think the messaging that can be listened to here is applicable on south of 00:02:51.829 --> 00:02:54.419 the border, applicable in other provinces. 00:02:54.489 --> 00:03:00.249 I mean, you're taking a very analytical approach to looking at how, uh, best. 00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:02.810 To deal with our current situation. 00:03:02.830 --> 00:03:05.450 And I mean, there's always going to be those who say, well, the problem's 00:03:05.450 --> 00:03:09.330 going to be poor Silva culture over the last few hundred years. 00:03:09.430 --> 00:03:13.180 Um, and yeah, I, I'd say that's definitely part of the problem. 00:03:13.270 --> 00:03:15.479 That's led us to where we are right now. 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.729 We have to deal with the right now and how we're going to move forward into, um, 00:03:21.810 --> 00:03:25.430 uh, a way and, uh, you know, education is going to be the best way to do this. 00:03:25.430 --> 00:03:25.770 So. 00:03:26.285 --> 00:03:30.755 Um, one of the areas that was talked about, and we've talked 00:03:30.765 --> 00:03:35.835 about offline, it was firearms and their impact within fires, 00:03:36.765 --> 00:03:38.634 particularly within British Columbia. 00:03:38.654 --> 00:03:43.835 And that was the hot button topic that I think had other people really up in arms. 00:03:44.535 --> 00:03:45.224 Alan Berry: Yeah, I agree. 00:03:45.224 --> 00:03:49.675 I think the messaging for a long time, Smokely Bear did a great job. 00:03:49.869 --> 00:03:52.459 It was campfires, uh, start wildfires. 00:03:52.470 --> 00:03:55.690 So when we're looking at, at preventable wildfires, so, uh, 00:03:55.710 --> 00:03:59.560 human caused campfires, still number one for us in the coast region. 00:03:59.659 --> 00:04:05.649 Um, but, uh, we're starting to see a real understanding from folks 00:04:05.649 --> 00:04:09.629 that are, that are using open fire specifically campfires in, in. 00:04:10.130 --> 00:04:13.019 Understanding what they need to do, where to have the campfire, having their 00:04:13.019 --> 00:04:16.280 eight liters of water with them, having a hand tool, making sure that it's 00:04:16.280 --> 00:04:17.899 out, it's cold to touch when it's done. 00:04:18.170 --> 00:04:21.540 And although we still continue to see wildfires associated with campfires, 00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:28.440 they don't really spread, uh, too significantly compared to firearms 00:04:28.460 --> 00:04:31.729 in particular, which we're starting to see as a real trending cause. 00:04:31.740 --> 00:04:37.710 So we may within, within the coast region, we may see 30, 00:04:37.710 --> 00:04:39.070 40 wildfires started from as. 00:04:39.255 --> 00:04:40.885 Abandoned campfires or escaped campfires. 00:04:40.974 --> 00:04:49.945 The numbers last year were, uh, less than 10 associated with firearms use or 00:04:49.945 --> 00:04:51.655 suspected to have been firearms used. 00:04:51.684 --> 00:04:52.455 In the coastal region? 00:04:52.474 --> 00:04:53.405 Just in the coast region. 00:04:53.465 --> 00:04:53.775 Yeah. 00:04:54.184 --> 00:05:00.135 And, uh, but the impact of those, like the hectares burned is significantly higher. 00:05:00.225 --> 00:05:04.835 The firearms related ones are really tricky because even, even 00:05:04.844 --> 00:05:08.575 having conversations with folks who've, Hey, I was out with my son. 00:05:08.575 --> 00:05:12.875 We were setting in our rifle prior to going out for hunting season, or 00:05:12.875 --> 00:05:18.515 they were just shooting for, you know, for fun, for target practice and it's 00:05:18.515 --> 00:05:21.574 a hundred yards out, 200 yards out, potentially even farther than that. 00:05:22.025 --> 00:05:25.315 And, uh, yeah, A fire occurs and they're not ready for it. 00:05:25.315 --> 00:05:29.055 It's not, it's not something that, you know, you're in tune to go out and your 00:05:29.055 --> 00:05:32.575 target shooting at, say, a metal target, or rocks, or you hit something really 00:05:32.575 --> 00:05:37.964 dry, like some dry moss or, or, um, it, a lot of times the areas, especially 00:05:37.964 --> 00:05:42.135 on the coast that they're, They're shooting in is the big open areas. 00:05:42.135 --> 00:05:44.055 So after harvesting, we call slash. 00:05:44.055 --> 00:05:48.155 So it's the debris that's left over after, um, forced harvesting has occurred. 00:05:48.364 --> 00:05:49.664 And that's, that can be really dry. 00:05:49.674 --> 00:05:51.065 It gets really dry, really quickly. 00:05:51.364 --> 00:05:54.914 And, uh, we're starting to see a lot of fires associated with that. 00:05:54.994 --> 00:05:56.025 Travis Bader: Interesting. 00:05:56.425 --> 00:06:01.060 You know, I know I was getting some heat from different, uh, Groups and different 00:06:01.060 --> 00:06:04.330 organizations are like, what, why do you want to talk about this, Travis? 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:07.320 I mean, why is this something that you want to have on the podcast? 00:06:07.770 --> 00:06:10.560 Because all they're going to want to do is they're going to want to limit 00:06:10.590 --> 00:06:12.430 our ability to go shoot outside. 00:06:12.450 --> 00:06:14.519 And I look at it a little bit differently. 00:06:15.690 --> 00:06:20.520 Um, and I, and I look at it in the similar way to leave the guys names, Barry Konkin. 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.440 I was just local politics here in, in Delta. 00:06:23.530 --> 00:06:26.820 And there was one point when Delta. 00:06:27.239 --> 00:06:33.739 Said we're going to ban gun businesses in the corporation, now 00:06:33.739 --> 00:06:37.159 city of Delta and current ones. 00:06:37.159 --> 00:06:38.169 They'll be grandfathered. 00:06:38.169 --> 00:06:39.060 You can sell it. 00:06:39.069 --> 00:06:39.960 You can keep it there. 00:06:39.969 --> 00:06:41.909 Similar to what the city of Surrey has done. 00:06:42.569 --> 00:06:45.590 And I remember I, I, Okay. 00:06:45.590 --> 00:06:49.229 I got to be at this, this, uh, meeting at the city hall there. 00:06:49.229 --> 00:06:51.550 I got to get my two bits, do all my research. 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.570 I got all my information together and I stood up and I'm giving all my, my bits. 00:06:56.129 --> 00:06:57.490 Well, here's why you're wrong. 00:06:57.490 --> 00:07:00.429 I'm saying, and here, here's all the great benefits too. 00:07:00.430 --> 00:07:01.909 And, and go through this whole thing. 00:07:01.909 --> 00:07:04.090 And finally, this guy stands up, I think his name was Barry. 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:05.280 And he says, Travis, hold on a second. 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:07.400 How much more of this do you have? 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:08.630 I was like, well, I got a whole bunch, right? 00:07:08.860 --> 00:07:11.340 He's like, well, Number one, we only have so much time. 00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:13.920 Number two, I agree with everything you're saying. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.589 I agree with all these points that you're making, but this is politics. 00:07:18.590 --> 00:07:23.710 If we think this is what the public wants, then this is what we're going to look at. 00:07:23.789 --> 00:07:24.739 We're going to look at doing it. 00:07:24.739 --> 00:07:26.609 If that's what we think that everybody wants. 00:07:26.630 --> 00:07:29.839 And I thought, oh, and I wasn't prepared for that level of honesty. 00:07:29.840 --> 00:07:35.310 And so when I look at this issue as a firearm Owner myself, 00:07:36.310 --> 00:07:40.760 wouldn't it be much better to have the conversation and understand 00:07:40.810 --> 00:07:42.679 where both sides are coming from. 00:07:42.710 --> 00:07:46.459 And so that the public can be properly informed, properly informed as to 00:07:46.460 --> 00:07:50.449 where people are going so that these decisions can be made and in a way where 00:07:50.449 --> 00:07:51.719 everyone's got their two bits in it. 00:07:51.719 --> 00:07:56.379 So that's, that was my big motivator behind this, and I couldn't understand 00:07:56.379 --> 00:07:57.804 why others wouldn't want that. 00:07:57.974 --> 00:08:01.334 To, uh, to have that conversation, but I do get the fear. 00:08:01.764 --> 00:08:02.145 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:08:02.234 --> 00:08:08.075 And I think there's sensitivities in many aspects of the use of firearms 00:08:08.075 --> 00:08:09.555 for a variety of different reasons. 00:08:09.914 --> 00:08:12.854 Um, I I'm solely coming at this from a, I look at. 00:08:13.294 --> 00:08:18.414 Every single wildfire that occurs in the coast region, I look at the cause. 00:08:18.455 --> 00:08:20.924 We, we investigate every single one of them, some of them to 00:08:20.924 --> 00:08:22.684 a much more detailed degree. 00:08:22.705 --> 00:08:25.984 So your, your one off little one where our crew shows up, there's a 00:08:25.984 --> 00:08:28.484 car carcass sitting there smoldering. 00:08:28.684 --> 00:08:29.784 We know what's happened there. 00:08:29.804 --> 00:08:30.144 Right. 00:08:30.214 --> 00:08:33.820 But, uh, when you show up, And again, some of these larger fires, when 00:08:33.820 --> 00:08:37.060 we're bringing, we bring origin cause investigators, this is their sole job. 00:08:37.070 --> 00:08:42.110 And they go in and they have a look, the, the, they go through their process of 00:08:42.110 --> 00:08:44.020 eliminating all other possible causes. 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:47.740 And it keeps coming back to the same theme for us, it's firearms 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.710 or something firearms related, like binary exploding targets or something 00:08:51.880 --> 00:08:52.790 like that associated with that. 00:08:53.180 --> 00:09:00.459 And I feel it's, you know, it's my job to To educate firearms 00:09:00.469 --> 00:09:01.579 users on this potential. 00:09:01.579 --> 00:09:07.760 It's just not something that I feel that, uh, um, a regular person who goes out, you 00:09:07.760 --> 00:09:13.039 know, shooting once in a while, or, um, you know, is, is new to it, is introduced 00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:16.659 to at the beginning stages through, um, some of the education programs that are 00:09:16.659 --> 00:09:20.169 available there, or even passed down from, from other hunters that are out there 00:09:21.249 --> 00:09:23.479 and hunters and, and, uh, firearms users. 00:09:23.510 --> 00:09:28.104 So for me, it's like, this is an awesome opportunity to, to Get onto your show 00:09:28.104 --> 00:09:32.915 here and be able to share that information and, and maybe start to, um, looking for 00:09:32.915 --> 00:09:34.344 other opportunities to push this out. 00:09:34.484 --> 00:09:34.994 Travis Bader: Absolutely. 00:09:34.994 --> 00:09:38.545 So how long, because I did a little bit of research prior to this, 00:09:38.795 --> 00:09:41.955 I'm sorry, the office did a little bit of research prior to this. 00:09:41.955 --> 00:09:45.904 So if I didn't give you some information, I should put credit 00:09:45.904 --> 00:09:51.535 where credit is due and, uh, Research that's coming out of the States. 00:09:51.535 --> 00:09:55.395 It doesn't look like they've been tracking, uh, firearm caused 00:09:55.405 --> 00:09:57.584 fires for a very long time. 00:09:57.945 --> 00:10:03.145 It seems like a newer sort of, uh, uh, research, uh, metric 00:10:03.165 --> 00:10:04.825 that, uh, has been showing up. 00:10:04.865 --> 00:10:06.394 Is that the same here in Canada? 00:10:08.370 --> 00:10:13.470 Alan Berry: Um, you know, I, I think probably in the last couple of decades, 00:10:13.470 --> 00:10:17.079 we really started focusing in on, on every fire, not just the bigger fires, 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:20.929 but it, and you see the trends from the smaller one, you know, we're able to 00:10:20.930 --> 00:10:25.059 do that, uh, analytics to say, okay, what, what's, what are we seeing that's 00:10:25.060 --> 00:10:30.660 increasing more and the other piece for me, um, with this, and I'll go back to 00:10:30.660 --> 00:10:35.279 the, to the smoky, the bear piece, um, you know, campfires were a huge issue 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:40.550 and, The public outdoor recreational users, just they endlessly, we were 00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:43.240 going out and dealing with fires that related from the escape from open fire. 00:10:43.660 --> 00:10:46.780 So I feel to a certain degree because we weren't investigating 00:10:46.780 --> 00:10:48.010 them all to the finite detail. 00:10:48.410 --> 00:10:51.349 Um, the assumption was it was either cigarettes or campfires 00:10:51.649 --> 00:10:52.700 that started every fire. 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:56.339 So there's a high likelihood that this has been an issue for a while. 00:10:56.729 --> 00:10:57.950 Um, and just the, the, the. 00:10:58.870 --> 00:11:01.860 The level of detail of the analysis and investigations just wasn't there. 00:11:02.430 --> 00:11:03.120 Travis Bader: Interesting. 00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:03.960 Yeah. 00:11:03.990 --> 00:11:08.110 It, you know, just like buckle up BC captain click says, buckle up. 00:11:08.130 --> 00:11:10.780 You don't hear about people driving around without seatbelts anymore. 00:11:10.780 --> 00:11:14.070 It's a sort of a given they, they buckle up campfires. 00:11:14.079 --> 00:11:18.134 Everyone's if someone's being irresponsible with a fire. 00:11:18.785 --> 00:11:20.725 And they've got anybody else that it's around. 00:11:20.865 --> 00:11:23.465 You'll usually hear people piping up or other people coming in 00:11:23.465 --> 00:11:24.605 and putting these fires out. 00:11:24.635 --> 00:11:29.505 Cause they realize the effects that negligence can have and 00:11:29.665 --> 00:11:31.055 how catastrophic that can be. 00:11:31.795 --> 00:11:35.155 That education piece on the firearm side is the one that interests me. 00:11:35.164 --> 00:11:36.884 Cause I'm going to learn a few things. 00:11:36.884 --> 00:11:37.425 I'm sure. 00:11:37.454 --> 00:11:39.584 Cause I've already learned a couple of things and doing some 00:11:39.584 --> 00:11:43.055 research and some of the stuff that Kimberly's been providing over. 00:11:43.859 --> 00:11:50.250 Um, as a firearms user who loves to shoot long range, and that's 00:11:50.250 --> 00:11:51.120 going to be out in the bush. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:54.389 And like you're saying, oftentimes a clear cut makes her a nice open area 00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:57.349 for, uh, just to set up and shoot. 00:11:57.389 --> 00:12:01.170 And it's lawful to do so, and check all the local regs, make 00:12:01.170 --> 00:12:04.430 sure that you're outside of boundaries that would prohibit it. 00:12:05.295 --> 00:12:06.375 Go ahead, go nuts. 00:12:06.385 --> 00:12:08.355 You know, I've always been a proponent, proponent. 00:12:08.375 --> 00:12:11.004 You bring your targets out, you shoot them, you clean them up and you go 00:12:11.004 --> 00:12:15.265 home, but it's not hard to find some popular shooting places because. 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:17.040 Garbage has been left behind. 00:12:17.040 --> 00:12:22.310 And oftentimes it's these targets that are being shot at that are the major 00:12:22.390 --> 00:12:24.720 cause of what could cause a firearm. 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.740 So how about you school me a little bit? 00:12:26.749 --> 00:12:28.379 What are the things I should be looking for? 00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:30.310 If I'm going to go outside and set up a range. 00:12:31.659 --> 00:12:34.699 Alan Berry: It's exactly what you see when you go to your local 00:12:34.700 --> 00:12:37.980 fishing game club or range somewhere, something that's clear to vegetation. 00:12:38.345 --> 00:12:44.745 And, uh, obviously there, there's the safety aspect of it, um, but ensuring 00:12:44.745 --> 00:12:52.584 that what you're shooting at, um, so the, the science there through, through some 00:12:52.584 --> 00:12:58.115 of the publications that have come out of the States is, is shooting, uh, Uh, copper 00:12:58.155 --> 00:13:02.235 and steel jacket or steel core bullets. 00:13:02.805 --> 00:13:07.845 The fragmentation from that, when it hits a solid object, um, they drop 00:13:07.845 --> 00:13:10.855 on the ground, 800 degrees Celsius is what they're measuring that out. 00:13:11.025 --> 00:13:15.975 So that will, that will start a fire if it comes in contact with something like 00:13:16.165 --> 00:13:21.265 a moss or a light grass, or in a lot of cases for us on the coast in slash. 00:13:21.265 --> 00:13:24.115 So that, that material that's left over after logging. 00:13:24.765 --> 00:13:25.935 So clear that area out. 00:13:26.170 --> 00:13:29.579 Like when you go to your local gun range, there's, you know, it's cleared 00:13:29.579 --> 00:13:33.869 of all the, um, drive materials and stuff that could start, uh, or ignite. 00:13:33.949 --> 00:13:35.969 And, and think of the same thing when you're out in the bush. 00:13:35.969 --> 00:13:38.579 It's, it's no different when you're out in the wild land versus when you're there. 00:13:39.209 --> 00:13:43.669 Um, the, so it's the ammunition, what you're shooting at, obviously, when 00:13:43.670 --> 00:13:47.239 we're talking binary exploding targets, there's, there's a larger range associated 00:13:47.239 --> 00:13:51.410 with that too, um, when the explosion occurs, the weather is, is one of the 00:13:51.410 --> 00:13:53.454 major, you know, Indicators for us. 00:13:53.515 --> 00:13:58.075 So the hottest part of the day, noon till five o'clock, six o'clock. 00:13:58.194 --> 00:14:02.155 Um, you know, on those hot summer days, when you're walking through the forest 00:14:02.495 --> 00:14:06.275 or, you know, the material underneath your feet, it's doing that crackling crunching, 00:14:06.275 --> 00:14:09.084 and you can kind of tell, like you can, you can feel it that, Hey, there's, 00:14:09.114 --> 00:14:10.534 there's a potential for a fire to occur. 00:14:10.974 --> 00:14:11.984 Avoid those times. 00:14:12.285 --> 00:14:12.925 Shoot in the morning. 00:14:12.935 --> 00:14:15.564 There's a lot of times there's still do if there's good overnight recoveries. 00:14:16.430 --> 00:14:20.010 Or after a rain, like have a look when you're are scheduling, when you're 00:14:20.010 --> 00:14:22.690 going to be going out, if you've got an opportunity to go, even just a 00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:28.279 little sprinkle will bring down the, the, the fine fuel moisture content to 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:32.340 the point where we won't have an issue with, uh, those fragments causing a 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:35.570 fire, just, you know, just think about it, but also just like when you're 00:14:35.570 --> 00:14:39.160 going out and having a campfire, bring some tools in case a fire does start. 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:40.600 Travis Bader: So like what, what would you suggest? 00:14:40.650 --> 00:14:43.699 Like, I like the idea of, you know, Clear your area ahead of time. 00:14:43.709 --> 00:14:46.989 Like how hard is it to bring a rake and just kind of rake up an area? 00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:50.060 How big of an area around would you suggest if someone's, let's 00:14:50.060 --> 00:14:51.609 say I'm shooting at steel targets. 00:14:52.090 --> 00:14:55.489 When I shoot at a steel target, I'm usually shooting, well, I'm always 00:14:55.490 --> 00:14:58.500 shooting at AR 500 or targets. 00:14:58.510 --> 00:15:04.520 They've got a Rockwell hardness or C around 50, 47 to 53. 00:15:04.520 --> 00:15:08.459 I think Rockwell hardness, like they're hard, they're designed so 00:15:08.459 --> 00:15:13.630 that when it hits the steel stays intact and the Essentially powderize. 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.000 And I also have them in a way that they'll deflect down. 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:19.440 And so I have an idea when I hit the target where it's going to hit too. 00:15:20.010 --> 00:15:24.690 But I also know that I don't always hit my target as far as, 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:26.190 as much as I'd love to say I do. 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:26.940 I don't always. 00:15:27.430 --> 00:15:34.420 And, um, uh, spalling and splatter can go for a bit of a distance. 00:15:34.830 --> 00:15:37.924 How big of an area around, uh, let's say a steel target like that, would you be? 00:15:39.105 --> 00:15:42.715 Alan Berry: Yeah, I think it really depends on what the 00:15:42.715 --> 00:15:44.035 location is that you've picked. 00:15:44.325 --> 00:15:48.295 Like if you're in a, in a more covered, uh, forest canopy where 00:15:48.295 --> 00:15:51.325 it's going to be a little bit cooler potentially in there, the area doesn't 00:15:51.325 --> 00:15:52.964 need to necessarily be as large. 00:15:53.064 --> 00:15:56.054 It's the fragments from the bullet, having that full stop 00:15:56.055 --> 00:15:59.135 right away and then breaking and fragmenting on the ground underneath. 00:15:59.395 --> 00:16:00.965 That's the area that's the biggest concern. 00:16:00.985 --> 00:16:06.395 So if you've got some slope associated with that or undulating terrain or, 00:16:06.445 --> 00:16:10.295 and a lot of really dry material too, I would say, you You know, for us, when 00:16:10.295 --> 00:16:14.665 we go out and we target shoot, we look for an area that there's at least, um, 00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:19.160 At least five to 10 feet on either side of the target and front and back of it 00:16:19.430 --> 00:16:22.360 that, uh, um, is, is free of material. 00:16:24.449 --> 00:16:26.490 Travis Bader: You know, you mentioned slope there. 00:16:26.540 --> 00:16:30.439 Now as a target shooter, I want to make sure I've got a good backstop. 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:31.740 What makes a good backstop? 00:16:31.780 --> 00:16:32.190 Earth. 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:33.589 So you want to have a big slope. 00:16:33.589 --> 00:16:37.319 And that was one of the pieces of the puzzle when you're saying that, 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.170 uh, fire is caused and firearms tend to be, what would you say? 00:16:41.180 --> 00:16:42.509 95 percent of the time. 00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:44.950 Alan Berry: Just the last year are the hectares burned. 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.520 So not the number of fires, like it's quite low, the number of 00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:51.140 fires that have occurred, but they're very impactful fires. 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:51.510 Travis Bader: Right. 00:16:51.510 --> 00:16:51.880 So. 00:16:52.130 --> 00:16:56.909 And is that because of the slope, because it's got a quick heat goes up, fire burns 00:16:56.910 --> 00:16:57.240 Alan Berry: up. 00:16:57.809 --> 00:17:00.000 It's a, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. 00:17:00.010 --> 00:17:03.650 One, folks just aren't prepared to be fighting a fire right away. 00:17:03.650 --> 00:17:07.390 Cause the fire started a lot of times when you're out doing recreational 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:10.425 shooting, you're You're not going to be in an area where there's 00:17:10.425 --> 00:17:11.935 a lot of people around as well. 00:17:12.314 --> 00:17:16.514 Um, and like you said, with yourself doing some longer range shooting, like 00:17:16.514 --> 00:17:20.585 300, 400 plus yards away from where you are, if a fire starts, you're not 00:17:20.585 --> 00:17:23.474 going to, You're likely not going to be able to get out there right away 00:17:23.474 --> 00:17:26.464 and be able to put that out, especially depending on the train between you 00:17:26.494 --> 00:17:27.814 and where you put your target up. 00:17:28.705 --> 00:17:33.335 Um, and then when I talk about slope, so the factors associated with, with 00:17:33.335 --> 00:17:38.524 fire spread is it's around fuel and topography are, are huge indicators 00:17:38.524 --> 00:17:40.294 as well as, uh, as the temperature. 00:17:40.294 --> 00:17:42.385 So avoiding those hot dry parts of the day. 00:17:43.255 --> 00:17:43.855 Slope. 00:17:44.345 --> 00:17:46.375 Um, you get the winds that are moving uphill. 00:17:46.415 --> 00:17:47.945 It preheats the fuels ahead of it. 00:17:47.955 --> 00:17:51.035 With a fire does start, it spreads much quicker upslope. 00:17:51.235 --> 00:17:56.405 Um, and it's, so I understand that, yeah, from a safety standpoint, you 00:17:56.405 --> 00:17:59.865 want to ensure that, you know, there's no potential of, of it going, but 00:17:59.865 --> 00:18:03.105 it also, you need to take that fire into portion into consideration. 00:18:03.615 --> 00:18:06.345 Travis Bader: Uh, some people will take out whatever they'll take 00:18:06.345 --> 00:18:12.655 out old barbecues I've seen out or used up propane bottles or things 00:18:12.665 --> 00:18:14.594 that they want to hit as a target. 00:18:14.635 --> 00:18:20.314 And, um, you know, I think that would be one of the areas that could be. 00:18:20.330 --> 00:18:24.219 Um, a larger causer of fires. 00:18:24.560 --> 00:18:28.550 Like if you think about Flint and steel, I remember years ago 00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:31.389 when I learned that it wasn't the Flint that actually makes a spark. 00:18:31.389 --> 00:18:32.780 It's a steel that makes a spark. 00:18:32.780 --> 00:18:35.230 Flint's is hard enough to scrape a little bit of steel off. 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:37.090 Steel is pyrophoric. 00:18:37.879 --> 00:18:41.209 It creates a quick oxidized layer over steel. 00:18:41.229 --> 00:18:45.649 And so it's no longer a pyrophoric, meaning that it'll, it'll ignite on air. 00:18:46.145 --> 00:18:49.604 Um, but when you scrape a fresh chunk off and it's small, it doesn't have the 00:18:49.814 --> 00:18:52.455 opportunity to create that oxidized layer. 00:18:52.834 --> 00:18:57.075 And it's the steel that actually, uh, ignites. 00:18:57.085 --> 00:19:01.404 And so if you're shooting at a softer steel, you're doing the same sort of thing 00:19:01.435 --> 00:19:06.205 and you're scraping little bits off and that's where you can see some sparks. 00:19:07.065 --> 00:19:07.445 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:19:07.685 --> 00:19:10.695 I think having a look at a lot of the investigations that have 00:19:10.695 --> 00:19:14.705 occurred, the common theme is, is. 00:19:15.784 --> 00:19:17.044 Really thick steel targets. 00:19:17.054 --> 00:19:18.475 It, now it's. 00:19:19.245 --> 00:19:23.115 Sometimes, like you mentioned, appliances and, and it's difficult sometimes to 00:19:23.115 --> 00:19:25.935 pinpoint exactly what they were shooting at, because as you said, a lot of times 00:19:25.935 --> 00:19:29.254 there's a lot of debris that's left out there, but we've seen everything from 00:19:29.414 --> 00:19:32.615 people putting binary exploding targets inside a washing machine and shooting 00:19:32.615 --> 00:19:35.355 it and being surprised that that started a wildfire where you would think that 00:19:35.355 --> 00:19:41.014 would be fairly common sense to, to, uh, um, you know, had a, had a conversation 00:19:41.014 --> 00:19:43.215 with a father son combination. 00:19:43.534 --> 00:19:44.054 They went out. 00:19:44.055 --> 00:19:44.139 Yeah. 00:19:44.290 --> 00:19:47.940 They were shooting at a, like a cowbell, um, from distance. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.750 It started a fire and they were really surprised and blown away. 00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:52.790 And they tried to get out there and respond to it. 00:19:53.190 --> 00:19:56.669 Um, the other strange thing that they've seen through, um, some 00:19:56.670 --> 00:19:59.120 of the investigations is the fire doesn't start right away sometimes. 00:19:59.149 --> 00:19:59.609 Right. 00:19:59.969 --> 00:20:05.669 It can be like a five to seven minute delay from when the really hot fragment, 00:20:05.965 --> 00:20:09.985 Um, hits whatever it is, the combustible material and starts smoldering before 00:20:09.985 --> 00:20:13.064 you actually see smoke coming off of it, before it actually reaches that state of 00:20:13.064 --> 00:20:16.144 combustion, where you're going to get a flame or, or actually noticeable smoke. 00:20:16.324 --> 00:20:18.294 So sometimes that delay is also. 00:20:18.785 --> 00:20:21.905 Uh, factors into why these fires tend to spread. 00:20:22.255 --> 00:20:25.205 Travis Bader: So good tip would be you're done shooting for the day. 00:20:25.205 --> 00:20:26.075 Everything's cleared up. 00:20:26.075 --> 00:20:29.405 You've done it in a place where you've taken these precautions. 00:20:30.125 --> 00:20:35.015 You're not shooting at targets that in high fire time that are likely to cause 00:20:35.024 --> 00:20:40.625 sparks or binary explosives, clean up, clean up your mess and use that time 00:20:40.625 --> 00:20:46.125 to watch your smoke, um, see, check the area, give a good visual examination and 00:20:46.555 --> 00:20:50.955 spend a bit of time to, um, Make sure when you leave, you're not leaving a 00:20:50.955 --> 00:20:51.385 Alan Berry: mess. 00:20:51.835 --> 00:20:52.195 Agreed. 00:20:52.445 --> 00:20:57.885 Another one that we've seen a few examples of is, so once they've, once logging 00:20:57.885 --> 00:21:01.005 companies have done harvesting and they have, I'm sure you've seen them, those 00:21:01.024 --> 00:21:04.994 roadside accumulations where they plan on coming back at a later date to, to abate 00:21:04.994 --> 00:21:06.354 that hazard, typically through burning. 00:21:06.414 --> 00:21:06.624 Yep. 00:21:07.235 --> 00:21:09.714 Um, sometimes folks put their targets on that. 00:21:10.055 --> 00:21:10.375 Sure. 00:21:10.415 --> 00:21:10.965 And they shoot. 00:21:11.215 --> 00:21:13.835 And I've seen it even with paper targets in it, where they shoot, 00:21:13.835 --> 00:21:16.315 but they hit a rock or something that's in the pile in behind it. 00:21:16.605 --> 00:21:17.875 They can't actually put it out. 00:21:18.305 --> 00:21:19.795 It's like, it's smoldering in there. 00:21:19.805 --> 00:21:23.474 Well, it's smoldering in there and they realize it, but the piles are huge. 00:21:23.764 --> 00:21:25.614 It's, it's well inside of the pile. 00:21:25.615 --> 00:21:28.294 It's like a giant pile of pickup sticks, right? 00:21:28.385 --> 00:21:30.675 And there's no way you're going to be able to get in there and actually 00:21:30.675 --> 00:21:32.045 put it out and it starts a fire. 00:21:32.045 --> 00:21:33.025 And they said, yeah, we did this. 00:21:33.025 --> 00:21:35.255 Like, we didn't know that this is something that would 00:21:35.615 --> 00:21:36.935 potentially lead to a wildfire. 00:21:37.875 --> 00:21:39.395 And that's why I think it's important to educate. 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:41.940 Travis Bader: I mean, I guess technically they're supposed to have 00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:48.960 fire breaks around those sort of, uh, I mean, I, I know it's sort of a 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:53.939 two part thing here, looking at, uh, firearms and how firearms users can be 00:21:53.949 --> 00:21:57.490 more cautious and just at least have their head turned on and be aware to 00:21:57.490 --> 00:21:59.720 the fact that fires can be caused. 00:22:00.070 --> 00:22:05.100 Um, but also, um, looking at the, the holistic approach of all the other 00:22:05.270 --> 00:22:06.810 things that are actually happening. 00:22:07.340 --> 00:22:08.760 Contributing to fires, right? 00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:13.220 I mean, father in law he's passed away now, but he was the, um, who 00:22:13.220 --> 00:22:16.220 was the president or vice president of forest engineering research 00:22:16.310 --> 00:22:17.890 industries of Canada, ferric. 00:22:18.300 --> 00:22:22.710 And he would go on and on about forestry practices that were maximizing 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:29.360 profit over top of, um, over, over top of, uh, proper practices that 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:30.970 would be leading to forest fires. 00:22:30.970 --> 00:22:31.240 And. 00:22:31.950 --> 00:22:35.740 I mean, sure enough, all the things he was talking about, we're seeing coming 00:22:35.740 --> 00:22:41.729 into place right now, but I think from a regulatory standpoint, um, being 00:22:41.729 --> 00:22:44.780 able to administer and take care of. 00:22:45.159 --> 00:22:48.720 Forestry companies and they're held to a certain standard, but we all play a 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:54.389 little bit of a part in here just because one side hasn't done the best job. 00:22:54.830 --> 00:22:58.839 Doesn't mean the other side should be willfully ignorant about what their 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:00.660 actions could possibly be causing. 00:23:02.150 --> 00:23:05.909 Alan Berry: Yeah, that's a whole other conversation around 00:23:05.910 --> 00:23:08.769 the assessment and abatement requirements in the wildfire act. 00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:13.400 And, and when I say, I think our public facing campaigns have been 00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:17.384 focused on, on campfire, uh, we have a very similar approach. 00:23:17.575 --> 00:23:18.335 Parallel. 00:23:19.745 --> 00:23:23.945 Industry focused campaign working around the requirement to assess 00:23:23.945 --> 00:23:27.834 fuel hazard and the bait, uh, with all of our industry partners who are 00:23:27.844 --> 00:23:31.445 including forestry companies that are conducting harvesting activities 00:23:31.645 --> 00:23:32.754 and other industrial activities. 00:23:32.754 --> 00:23:35.304 So there's a lot of work that goes into that. 00:23:35.304 --> 00:23:38.209 So don't, don't feel at all like, Hey, we're, we're. 00:23:38.600 --> 00:23:40.939 Pardon the pun, but targeting one group here ahead of another one. 00:23:41.370 --> 00:23:47.050 Um, yeah, we're, we're quite aware of the hazard that is on the landscape. 00:23:47.109 --> 00:23:51.150 And, uh, um, I think the common denominator out of everybody is 00:23:51.159 --> 00:23:55.119 we're just seeing how impactful these wildfire seasons are and everybody's 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:00.080 on board, uh, the conversations that I've had, the, the old concerns 00:24:00.090 --> 00:24:06.830 about putting, um, profits ahead of, of, uh, environmental protection. 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.710 Um, I'm not, I'm not feeling those conversations. 00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:11.210 They're, they're asking what can we do better? 00:24:11.510 --> 00:24:15.010 Like what, from going through here, harvesting, they've got prescribed 00:24:15.010 --> 00:24:18.249 timeframes in which they have to abate, we call it abating, but in most 00:24:18.250 --> 00:24:20.950 cases they're burning, but they have to go out and abate their hazard and, 00:24:21.110 --> 00:24:23.849 and, uh, um, and they adhere to it. 00:24:23.849 --> 00:24:25.950 And a lot of times they're actually doing a much better job. 00:24:26.380 --> 00:24:28.240 Travis Bader: I think it's just an important piece just to 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:29.380 bring up in the conversation. 00:24:29.380 --> 00:24:32.110 Cause I think that's the most heated part that I've been getting 00:24:32.110 --> 00:24:33.910 feedback prior to recording. 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:36.130 This is like you say. 00:24:36.195 --> 00:24:37.925 They're targeting target shooters. 00:24:37.925 --> 00:24:40.735 They're targeting, all they're going to do is they're going to shut it down. 00:24:40.735 --> 00:24:45.935 And someone sent me over, I got the statistics from the U S um, and what 00:24:45.935 --> 00:24:47.615 did Israeli say about statistics? 00:24:47.895 --> 00:24:50.195 And he said, there's lies, damn lies, and statistics. 00:24:50.195 --> 00:24:50.345 Or 00:24:50.985 --> 00:24:54.394 Alan Berry: I thought it was, uh, um, there's a statistic for anything. 00:24:54.405 --> 00:24:57.004 95 percent of people know that. 00:24:57.545 --> 00:25:02.065 Travis Bader: Let's see, anchorman, that cologne is 60 percent of 00:25:02.065 --> 00:25:03.335 the time, it works every time. 00:25:04.695 --> 00:25:10.504 Um, he's got, um, uh, US Forest Service fire safety journal, fire program 00:25:10.504 --> 00:25:12.684 analysis, fire occurrence database. 00:25:13.364 --> 00:25:18.034 Of the human caused fires that could be assigned a general cause from 00:25:18.304 --> 00:25:20.064 the source information, only 0. 00:25:20.065 --> 00:25:25.454 2 percent were placed in the new firearms and explosive use category. 00:25:25.455 --> 00:25:28.304 And we've got this little chart here that, that brings it up and 00:25:28.345 --> 00:25:31.404 2%, that's, that's pretty small. 00:25:31.404 --> 00:25:38.469 And then they break it down further and they say, Um, fires assigned 00:25:38.510 --> 00:25:41.959 a general cause of firearms and explosive use half were given the 00:25:41.959 --> 00:25:44.340 specific cause of military ordinance. 00:25:45.189 --> 00:25:49.040 Maybe that's actual military out there using it, and this is in the States. 00:25:49.269 --> 00:25:54.170 Well, 40 percent were attributed to target shooting, um, from 00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:55.690 shooting at inert targets. 00:25:55.719 --> 00:25:58.280 And 5 percent of that 0. 00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:01.240 2 percent was from exploding targets or the binary targets. 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.060 And so those numbers get smaller and smaller and smaller and 00:26:04.060 --> 00:26:06.620 people are like, Oh, Oh, it's a statistically insignificant. 00:26:07.090 --> 00:26:11.230 And then they will watch videos put out by Tannerite, which is probably 00:26:11.230 --> 00:26:14.130 seen those ones in the States and everyone claims no Tannerite. 00:26:14.139 --> 00:26:17.580 It's not an exothermic reaction when it goes off, there is no heat. 00:26:17.590 --> 00:26:18.920 It's just, it's water vapor. 00:26:18.929 --> 00:26:19.559 Basically. 00:26:21.289 --> 00:26:26.620 I know that to be untrue, um, based on how ANFOs and, and ANALs, uh, work. 00:26:27.270 --> 00:26:37.665 Um, I didn't know the high percentage of, uh, forests that was affected from known 00:26:38.175 --> 00:26:41.635 firearm fires that you were mentioning, at least in the last year of the ones 00:26:41.635 --> 00:26:46.434 that you, uh, in that small sample survey, what would you have to say to people who 00:26:46.434 --> 00:26:50.644 are, who are talking about, uh, binary targets and how they don't cause fires? 00:26:51.040 --> 00:26:56.760 Or, um, why are we talking about this when vehicle borne fires 00:26:56.760 --> 00:26:58.899 account for 13%, according to this. 00:26:59.090 --> 00:26:59.770 And we're only 0. 00:26:59.820 --> 00:27:00.050 2. 00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:01.850 Like, shouldn't we be looking at other things? 00:27:01.889 --> 00:27:03.240 What would you say to those things? 00:27:04.249 --> 00:27:07.330 Alan Berry: I think I have to really focus on the impacts of these fires. 00:27:07.360 --> 00:27:14.199 So, uh, I, I did mention it's nowhere near the number of a lot of the other causes. 00:27:15.075 --> 00:27:19.285 But the impacts of these fires, specifically in the last 10 years 00:27:19.285 --> 00:27:25.344 or so, so the Sechelt mine fire in Sechelt in 2015, um, potentially 00:27:25.395 --> 00:27:27.305 significant impact to the community. 00:27:27.994 --> 00:27:34.175 There's the Gustafson wildfire, uh, that, you know, Cause the evacuation orders and 00:27:34.175 --> 00:27:36.785 alerts for the hundred mile community. 00:27:37.225 --> 00:27:42.065 Um, and, uh, and then just in this past year that we're, we're starting to see 00:27:42.065 --> 00:27:45.935 them more and more, um, specifically here on the coast, it is increasing. 00:27:46.544 --> 00:27:50.050 And I feel, um, these fire seasons are, Are getting busy. 00:27:50.110 --> 00:27:54.190 Like there's on average for the province, 50 percent of the wildfires 00:27:54.190 --> 00:27:55.640 are natural cause 50 percent are human. 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.500 For us on the coast, it's on an average fire season, and it's 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:00.330 actually quite a bit higher. 00:28:00.330 --> 00:28:04.110 We don't get as much lightning and having 80 percent of the population in the 00:28:04.110 --> 00:28:09.810 coast region, we tend to see human caused fires be in that 60 to 70 percent range. 00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:10.430 Okay. 00:28:11.340 --> 00:28:16.500 So I think the past few fire seasons, what we've seen with, with the natural 00:28:16.510 --> 00:28:17.900 cause fires, that's all lightning. 00:28:18.570 --> 00:28:20.079 Two thirds at the top third of a mountain. 00:28:21.369 --> 00:28:25.780 Um, typically those of us that hang out on the top thirds of the 00:28:25.790 --> 00:28:28.569 mountain, they're not the nicest train to be wandered around in. 00:28:28.569 --> 00:28:31.529 And a lot of times there's nothing we can do safely to, to fight those fires. 00:28:31.790 --> 00:28:34.000 So basically what I'm trying to say is we got our hands full 00:28:34.030 --> 00:28:35.520 just with natural cause fires. 00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:37.180 So if I can. 00:28:37.620 --> 00:28:42.140 even get rid of one or two human caused fires that are significantly impactful. 00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:46.700 That's more resources to help protect communities, uh, to help protect, uh, 00:28:46.780 --> 00:28:50.080 the environment, critical infrastructure, everything that's out there from 00:28:50.150 --> 00:28:51.630 a lot of the natural caused fires. 00:28:51.659 --> 00:28:57.189 And, uh, um, but more importantly, you know, our, our workforce, um, 00:28:57.190 --> 00:29:00.550 with the BC Welfare Service and the contract community that helps us, uh, 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.594 you know, the, Wildfires are getting more, more and more dangerous for sure. 00:29:04.935 --> 00:29:06.465 And we're starting to see that impact. 00:29:06.475 --> 00:29:09.745 And that's one less fire that I have to worry about sending fire 00:29:09.745 --> 00:29:16.384 crews out to, to potentially at their, at their safety risk. 00:29:16.514 --> 00:29:17.024 Travis Bader: Yes. 00:29:17.535 --> 00:29:18.764 Um, binary 00:29:18.764 --> 00:29:19.284 Alan Berry: targets. 00:29:19.585 --> 00:29:20.635 What do you think about those? 00:29:21.145 --> 00:29:26.955 Well, I think anybody can go on the internet and see a lot of pictures 00:29:26.955 --> 00:29:29.794 of people blowing things up and fires that are associated with them. 00:29:29.814 --> 00:29:35.525 So I, I struggle a little bit with, uh, the, um, with the argument that 00:29:35.525 --> 00:29:38.695 they don't cause wildfires because I think anything can cause a wildfire 00:29:38.895 --> 00:29:41.015 if used in a proper situation. 00:29:41.025 --> 00:29:41.305 Sure. 00:29:41.674 --> 00:29:45.414 And when it comes to binary exploding targets, so that's, that's no different. 00:29:45.774 --> 00:29:49.434 So I think the same message I'm passing here for when we are doing 00:29:49.434 --> 00:29:52.305 target shooting can be applied to the use of binary exploding targets. 00:29:52.835 --> 00:29:57.475 The only piece for that to realize is that because there's been quite 00:29:57.475 --> 00:30:02.365 a few fires Again, known, um, to be started by binary exploding targets. 00:30:02.415 --> 00:30:06.575 When we put on open fire prohibitions in the coastal fire center in the 00:30:06.575 --> 00:30:10.435 summer months, we also prohibit the use of binary exploding targets as 00:30:10.435 --> 00:30:12.375 a, as a piece of equipment to use. 00:30:12.385 --> 00:30:15.445 So they are prohibited outside of, uh, or in the area where 00:30:15.445 --> 00:30:16.485 our jurisdiction applies. 00:30:16.555 --> 00:30:20.315 Travis Bader: That's what a category two fire that then encompasses binary, right? 00:30:20.365 --> 00:30:20.725 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:30:20.725 --> 00:30:29.615 So there's, there's a list of, there's a list of, uh, Um, equipment and materials 00:30:29.615 --> 00:30:33.915 that will prohibit associated with different types of open fire prohibitions. 00:30:34.445 --> 00:30:37.725 And for category two, which is our backyard burning, that's usually 00:30:37.725 --> 00:30:38.765 the first one that comes on. 00:30:38.925 --> 00:30:43.285 We also prohibit, um, binary exploding targets at the same time. 00:30:43.715 --> 00:30:45.829 But campfires wouldn't be covered. 00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:46.860 In that one, would they? 00:30:47.220 --> 00:30:51.610 No, campfires are that typically we wait a little bit longer to put the campfires on. 00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:56.150 As I mentioned previously, there, you know, there's, there's a lot 00:30:56.150 --> 00:30:57.620 involved with the campfire prohibition. 00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:02.290 And unfortunately, if we can dispel one myth, fire season doesn't coincide 00:31:02.320 --> 00:31:04.010 with campfire prohibition season. 00:31:04.750 --> 00:31:07.380 Um, there's, there's a perception around that, that it's like, well, 00:31:07.620 --> 00:31:08.970 you know, why do I have to care? 00:31:08.970 --> 00:31:10.230 There's no campfire ban on yet. 00:31:10.300 --> 00:31:10.710 Right. 00:31:10.780 --> 00:31:11.454 Um, so. 00:31:11.455 --> 00:31:14.335 But the campfire ban is typically the last prohibition that we'll put on. 00:31:14.625 --> 00:31:16.255 And there's a variety of reasons for that. 00:31:16.315 --> 00:31:18.335 Um, it's really tricky to enforce. 00:31:18.395 --> 00:31:20.055 There's a lot of resources that are associated with it. 00:31:20.085 --> 00:31:24.035 It takes a lot of time and effort to, to communicate that out to, to make sure. 00:31:24.035 --> 00:31:28.025 And, uh, and there's a lot of ways that people can use campfires quite safely. 00:31:28.025 --> 00:31:31.275 And, and I'd say going back to Smokey the Bear, we've We do a 00:31:31.275 --> 00:31:32.585 pretty good job of messaging that. 00:31:33.395 --> 00:31:37.605 The other issue I have with, with putting on a campfire prohibition is 00:31:37.835 --> 00:31:41.365 right now you can go out to Coltis Lake, have your campfire at the 00:31:41.365 --> 00:31:44.195 campground there and, uh, it's safe. 00:31:44.345 --> 00:31:46.875 You know, you've got people around, there's a whole bunch of people. 00:31:47.485 --> 00:31:50.595 When a prohibition's on, if somebody's dead set on using a 00:31:50.765 --> 00:31:53.825 campfire, they're going to go hide it in the back area somewhere. 00:31:54.055 --> 00:31:55.115 Likely detection. 00:31:55.870 --> 00:31:58.090 It's not going to occur, uh, quite quickly. 00:31:58.090 --> 00:32:02.470 And, and we rely upon the public to detect almost all of our wildfires. 00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:05.720 We used to have the, you know, the, uh, the top of the mountain, 00:32:05.890 --> 00:32:07.250 uh, detection locations. 00:32:07.530 --> 00:32:08.130 Right. 00:32:08.350 --> 00:32:08.520 But 00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:10.870 Travis Bader: the guy is sitting out there looking for smoke all day long. 00:32:10.870 --> 00:32:11.760 Yeah, exactly. 00:32:11.760 --> 00:32:14.640 Alan Berry: And that makes sense if it's an area where there isn't, you know, 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.080 a thousand people driving around and, and recreating, but it's, we're seeing 00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:22.525 more and more folks are in the back country and, Through our app and various 00:32:22.525 --> 00:32:25.905 other means they're reporting these fires a lot of times within seconds or 00:32:25.905 --> 00:32:27.875 minutes of them, uh, first seen smoke. 00:32:28.115 --> 00:32:32.105 Travis Bader: How, how responsive, how quick is satellite thermal imagery? 00:32:32.435 --> 00:32:34.225 Is that something that you have access to? 00:32:34.225 --> 00:32:39.105 And is that something that, uh, uh, comes fairly quick 00:32:39.115 --> 00:32:39.375 Alan Berry: for you? 00:32:40.005 --> 00:32:46.295 I'll say it's, it's, it's an area that We're exploring, um, the products 00:32:46.295 --> 00:32:51.755 that I've seen are much better, much better use for us in the larger fire 00:32:51.755 --> 00:32:55.625 scenarios where we're trying to figure out fire perimeters, you know, and it's 00:32:55.675 --> 00:32:57.635 unrealistic for us to get all around them. 00:32:57.685 --> 00:33:02.025 Like the Donny Creek wildfire from last year, half a million hectares in size. 00:33:02.035 --> 00:33:05.965 Satellite imagery is a really good way for us to have an 00:33:05.965 --> 00:33:10.345 understanding of, of, um, where the main heat is associated with that. 00:33:10.485 --> 00:33:16.365 When it comes from initial detection, um, At this stage, I haven't, uh, 00:33:17.445 --> 00:33:21.125 I'd say I'm not quite comfortable commenting on, on the strengths 00:33:21.125 --> 00:33:22.115 and weaknesses of that product. 00:33:22.125 --> 00:33:23.385 Cause I just haven't seen enough of it. 00:33:23.535 --> 00:33:23.785 Fair 00:33:23.785 --> 00:33:24.355 Travis Bader: enough. 00:33:24.965 --> 00:33:25.365 Yeah. 00:33:25.575 --> 00:33:26.875 Doing a little bit of research. 00:33:26.875 --> 00:33:31.445 Like I've known for a long time, steel's pyrophoric, I didn't realize aluminum 00:33:31.495 --> 00:33:37.395 in small enough, uh, particles is also pyrophoric and a few other metals 00:33:37.395 --> 00:33:41.360 out there that if you, you Good way to get into a small enough particle. 00:33:41.590 --> 00:33:42.590 Shoot it, right? 00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:43.540 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:33:43.800 --> 00:33:45.290 And that, and that's the big thing too. 00:33:45.290 --> 00:33:48.950 It's, it's a lot of the publications that I've read, it's, it's the 00:33:48.950 --> 00:33:50.330 particles, it's the smaller pieces. 00:33:50.330 --> 00:33:53.150 So not the, you know, if, if we're shooting a bullet, it's 00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:55.310 not the, the full bullet itself. 00:33:55.310 --> 00:33:56.640 That is typically the issue. 00:33:56.650 --> 00:34:01.350 It's when it has that significant impact and breaks up into a lot of pieces, 00:34:01.390 --> 00:34:04.520 those little particle pieces are a lot of times are what's causing this fire. 00:34:05.185 --> 00:34:06.855 Travis Bader: I remember I was always raised. 00:34:06.855 --> 00:34:08.665 Oh, you got your, uh, your fire triangle. 00:34:08.665 --> 00:34:09.635 You need three things. 00:34:09.635 --> 00:34:13.745 And then when I was, uh, doing some volunteer stuff, the fire service 00:34:13.745 --> 00:34:17.245 over in Washington, and, uh, they said, no, no, it's four things. 00:34:17.245 --> 00:34:18.285 You need, you need four things. 00:34:18.285 --> 00:34:19.875 You need fuel. 00:34:20.325 --> 00:34:23.675 You need heat, you need oxygen and you need a chemical chain reaction. 00:34:24.255 --> 00:34:26.055 So, uh, I thought, okay. 00:34:26.615 --> 00:34:28.245 What do you mean, chemical chain reaction? 00:34:28.245 --> 00:34:30.175 They said, well, you can have as much fuel as you want. 00:34:30.435 --> 00:34:33.795 Beside as much heat as you want, beside as much oxygen as you want, but unless 00:34:33.795 --> 00:34:37.315 they're interacting together in some way, you're not going to have a fire. 00:34:37.405 --> 00:34:37.765 Right? 00:34:37.815 --> 00:34:42.895 So when people are, and I thought that was kind of an interesting 00:34:42.895 --> 00:34:44.255 little tidbit of information. 00:34:45.645 --> 00:34:50.665 And I think about that when I'm lighting fires or if I'm shooting, or if I'm 00:34:50.665 --> 00:34:54.509 doing different things, how do I get rid of that one piece of information? 00:34:54.650 --> 00:34:59.130 That's able that I'm able to, because I can't get rid of the oxygen fuel. 00:34:59.130 --> 00:35:02.600 Well, I can limit it's access to fuel, uh, heat. 00:35:02.630 --> 00:35:05.210 Well, that's going to be a tough one for me to deal with, but the chemical 00:35:05.210 --> 00:35:09.610 chain reaction part, I got a lot of input on that one neck and that can vary 00:35:09.620 --> 00:35:13.030 from like you're saying, um, moving. 00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:17.780 Clearing a space out, uh, waiting for damper weather, time of day, 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:21.100 or maybe just not going out and shooting at that time, right? 00:35:21.100 --> 00:35:23.770 There's a bunch of things that I can personally do to limit 00:35:23.780 --> 00:35:25.200 that chemical chain reaction. 00:35:26.030 --> 00:35:30.290 Um, are you getting, are you getting any hate yet from people saying 00:35:30.290 --> 00:35:31.470 like, are you going to ban guns? 00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:34.009 Are you going to ban our ability to use firearms out in the bush? 00:35:34.290 --> 00:35:37.900 Alan Berry: Yeah, that's, you know, we haven't, we haven't 00:35:37.900 --> 00:35:41.150 really pushed this campaign out too hard outside of this, this year. 00:35:41.180 --> 00:35:44.210 So the initial conversations I've had, that's the first reaction. 00:35:44.740 --> 00:35:49.880 And as soon as I explained that this isn't the intent of this, this campaign 00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:55.090 is to educate and to prevent wildfires and not to, uh, prohibit the use of them. 00:35:55.160 --> 00:35:58.800 It's like I said, with campfire bans, if you can't enforce it, 00:35:59.230 --> 00:36:00.640 um, there's no point in doing it. 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.627 And, uh, the use of firearms to me that that's a whole world we don't, 00:36:04.627 --> 00:36:06.545 we don't Really need to be going down. 00:36:06.855 --> 00:36:11.355 I think, I think there's an opportunity for us to educate and, uh, really see 00:36:11.355 --> 00:36:13.885 significant reduction in, in these fires. 00:36:13.885 --> 00:36:16.145 And then from there that, you know, that's the best and 00:36:16.145 --> 00:36:17.645 easiest solution for all of us. 00:36:17.815 --> 00:36:18.405 Travis Bader: I agree. 00:36:18.455 --> 00:36:22.255 I honestly, when you look, especially when it comes to firearms, I mean, 00:36:22.255 --> 00:36:29.780 our, our If you look at rules that are put in place on firearms, like, I 00:36:29.780 --> 00:36:34.270 don't know, recent federal legislation banning certain firearms, these guns 00:36:34.270 --> 00:36:35.570 are locked up in people's safes. 00:36:35.570 --> 00:36:36.780 They haven't gotten the buy back in. 00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:38.930 They've been sitting there for how long and we're seeing 00:36:39.130 --> 00:36:40.690 crime rates going up still. 00:36:40.690 --> 00:36:46.400 And we're seeing firearms, um, misuse going up statistically in Canada. 00:36:46.985 --> 00:36:50.075 Yet all of these people have got their guns locked up in the safe. 00:36:50.075 --> 00:36:53.965 It's not targeting the right area because it's not dealing with the, the 00:36:53.965 --> 00:36:56.895 actual causes or people will ignore it. 00:36:56.895 --> 00:36:58.335 Like someone's up to criminal intent. 00:36:58.995 --> 00:37:00.265 They're going to go across the border. 00:37:00.265 --> 00:37:01.415 They're going to find themselves a gun. 00:37:01.415 --> 00:37:02.345 They're going to smuggle it across. 00:37:02.345 --> 00:37:08.655 They're going to use it criminally trying to enact legislation or regulation 00:37:08.765 --> 00:37:11.485 on, uh, firearms use in the bush. 00:37:12.555 --> 00:37:13.095 I think. 00:37:13.515 --> 00:37:15.755 From my perspective, and I might be biased, but I think 00:37:15.755 --> 00:37:17.365 that's completely the wrong way. 00:37:17.385 --> 00:37:22.305 And I do believe that the education piece is a hundred percent, way more effective. 00:37:22.325 --> 00:37:24.695 Cause you're not going to stop somebody from going out and shooting in the 00:37:24.695 --> 00:37:28.435 bush if they're intent on doing so, but you can have them make sure 00:37:28.435 --> 00:37:31.625 they're not having a fire if they keep these little steps in place. 00:37:32.075 --> 00:37:32.635 Alan Berry: Absolutely. 00:37:32.765 --> 00:37:39.195 And I think for us, the advocacy amongst the firearm user group to be 00:37:39.195 --> 00:37:44.120 able to share that information, um, it's, we're all using the Chunk of 00:37:44.120 --> 00:37:48.620 land, as I mentioned, my family, we're three, four generations now of hunters. 00:37:48.670 --> 00:37:53.740 We, it's a, it's an amazing, um, pastime that really dovetails 00:37:53.770 --> 00:37:54.900 nicely with fire season. 00:37:54.900 --> 00:37:58.960 So fire season ends and we go into a nice opportunity to reconnect with the 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:00.320 family, go out and do some hunting. 00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:03.270 And, and, uh, we've got some amazing spots. 00:38:03.730 --> 00:38:07.000 And, uh, one of them, One of the areas where we've got a cabin, a 00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:10.760 family cabin that we go to quite frequency is quite, is a very close 00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.860 to where the Sparks Lake wildfire occurred, um, in 2021 near Kamloops. 00:38:14.990 --> 00:38:15.380 Right. 00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:19.880 And so there's limitations now on where we can hunt in there and 00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:21.190 how we can hunt in those areas. 00:38:21.570 --> 00:38:21.930 And. 00:38:22.935 --> 00:38:26.975 Again, I'm, I'm saying, Hey, like if that fire didn't happen and I'm not 00:38:26.975 --> 00:38:31.385 saying that one was caused by wildfires or by firearms use, but you did it. 00:38:32.605 --> 00:38:32.925 We had this 00:38:32.925 --> 00:38:34.235 Travis Bader: conversation ahead of time. 00:38:35.305 --> 00:38:35.655 Alan Berry: All right. 00:38:35.655 --> 00:38:36.075 You got me. 00:38:36.215 --> 00:38:36.515 You got it. 00:38:36.515 --> 00:38:36.775 All right. 00:38:36.775 --> 00:38:37.065 Go on. 00:38:37.115 --> 00:38:43.395 Um, But, uh, um, but I, I do see, you know, I, I see the impacts of, uh, 00:38:44.255 --> 00:38:45.785 of the pastime that we really enjoy. 00:38:45.825 --> 00:38:50.225 And I, I think, um, especially the hunting community here and, and all the folks 00:38:50.225 --> 00:38:54.375 that do outdoor recreation using firearms, the impact of one of these wildfires, 00:38:54.715 --> 00:38:56.155 um, on the areas where they like to hunt. 00:38:57.270 --> 00:38:59.720 Live and play, um, can be significant. 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:05.480 And there is, uh, um, the potential for a financial hit as well. 00:39:05.670 --> 00:39:06.610 What's that look like? 00:39:07.060 --> 00:39:11.120 So we investigate every single wildfire, as I mentioned, uh, human 00:39:11.120 --> 00:39:15.620 caused wildfires, um, under the welfare act and regulations we have. 00:39:15.825 --> 00:39:22.045 The ability to recoup costs for all of the fire suppression, uh, costs that 00:39:22.045 --> 00:39:27.305 occurred, which can be significant, the damage to, uh, crown resources, 00:39:27.785 --> 00:39:31.055 and then also lay an administrative penalty through that process. 00:39:31.055 --> 00:39:36.445 And, and, uh, yeah, for me, I, I would be. 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:42.200 Devastated if myself or my, any of my friends or family were out shooting and, 00:39:42.200 --> 00:39:46.000 uh, or even any of your listeners, like if they are out there and cause a fire, 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:53.290 the potential for having a significant monetary, um, penalty afterwards would 00:39:53.290 --> 00:39:57.560 be, yeah, it's, it's, it's just an, another reason to be very cautious. 00:39:57.600 --> 00:39:59.410 Travis Bader: You're playing for the helicopters and their fuel, 00:39:59.410 --> 00:40:02.560 the planes, the people on the ground, the L the resources and 00:40:02.560 --> 00:40:03.410 everything else that it gets. 00:40:04.230 --> 00:40:07.140 Burnt, you're on the hook for potentially. 00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:07.520 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:40:08.380 --> 00:40:11.060 Travis Bader: So how are these fires investigated? 00:40:11.150 --> 00:40:15.260 Because I think that's useful information for everybody, but the arsonist, uh, 00:40:15.310 --> 00:40:19.770 people who are, uh, people who are out there and they understand what you'd 00:40:19.770 --> 00:40:24.000 be looking for to investigate a fire would use those as tips to be, okay, 00:40:24.230 --> 00:40:25.790 maybe I won't set up targets like this. 00:40:25.820 --> 00:40:27.170 Maybe I will have an area cleared. 00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:28.200 So 00:40:28.220 --> 00:40:31.840 Alan Berry: when, when we're doing an investigation, it's a, a twofold process. 00:40:31.870 --> 00:40:33.980 There's the fire origin and cause investigators. 00:40:35.200 --> 00:40:38.100 They'll go out and they, through a process of elimination, they'll 00:40:38.100 --> 00:40:42.300 eliminate all possible causes and root it down to, this is the location where 00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:44.360 it started and this is the cause. 00:40:44.930 --> 00:40:47.410 And through this process, it's balance of probabilities. 00:40:47.420 --> 00:40:50.320 So just a better than 50 percent chance that this is actually what happened. 00:40:50.600 --> 00:40:52.490 And then we have an investigation team. 00:40:52.645 --> 00:40:54.165 through our enforcement partners. 00:40:54.345 --> 00:40:58.055 It can be, uh, the ministry of forests has the compliance enforcement branch. 00:40:58.365 --> 00:41:01.385 We also team up with the ministry of environment for their conservation 00:41:01.385 --> 00:41:05.165 officer service, help us out with our investigations or potentially the RCMP. 00:41:05.195 --> 00:41:07.815 They all have authorities under the wildfire act and wildfire regulations, 00:41:07.855 --> 00:41:13.104 and they can assist, and so they lead through an administrative process, um, to. 00:41:14.045 --> 00:41:18.795 To review every single fire and the ones that we have, the crown feels that they 00:41:18.795 --> 00:41:20.355 have a chance to be able to recoup costs. 00:41:20.405 --> 00:41:21.075 They will pursue it. 00:41:21.075 --> 00:41:23.125 And we do pursue them aggressively. 00:41:23.245 --> 00:41:23.765 Travis Bader: Mm hmm. 00:41:24.825 --> 00:41:28.555 Um, what other areas, what are the things that people know about? 00:41:28.555 --> 00:41:35.575 I mean, are there, you know, the binary one is a new ish in Canada. 00:41:35.715 --> 00:41:38.385 I mean, it's been around in the States for a long time and. 00:41:39.210 --> 00:41:43.240 And it's a permissible thing for the last, what is it, like 10 or so years that, 00:41:43.240 --> 00:41:45.720 uh, people have been, been using those. 00:41:45.720 --> 00:41:50.490 So I think it's important that people realize that despite what some claim, uh, 00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:56.270 binary targets are exothermic and heat is a by product of, of ammonium nitrate. 00:41:56.270 --> 00:42:02.215 Um, Which is their base of, you use a sensitizer of some type to get it going. 00:42:02.215 --> 00:42:05.385 Aluminum powder is typically what they find in the ones that are being sold. 00:42:05.385 --> 00:42:09.285 But, uh, then of course that fine aluminum particulates gonna 00:42:09.285 --> 00:42:10.455 be something that can burn too. 00:42:11.625 --> 00:42:12.585 What are the things do they know? 00:42:13.035 --> 00:42:19.395 Alan Berry: Well, I think, like I said, a lot of times it, it pinpoints it to 00:42:19.395 --> 00:42:20.895 the location and what they're shooting. 00:42:20.925 --> 00:42:26.205 But, uh, um, I think just taking the approach of using, you 00:42:26.205 --> 00:42:27.255 know, being, being sensible. 00:42:27.795 --> 00:42:33.745 Um, when you are shooting, um, when I say sensible, we've run 00:42:33.745 --> 00:42:34.615 into a whole bunch of stuff. 00:42:34.615 --> 00:42:39.305 We've run into people who didn't realize that shooting propane tanks, 00:42:39.435 --> 00:42:44.325 um, with active propane inside had the potential to, to cause a wildfire. 00:42:44.355 --> 00:42:47.165 Like, there's a whole variety of different things that we, we run into. 00:42:47.165 --> 00:42:50.435 I don't, I don't really know how to narrow it down to just, you know, 00:42:51.130 --> 00:42:53.870 You know, do what a reasonable person would do when you're, when 00:42:53.870 --> 00:42:55.000 you're out in these environments. 00:42:55.030 --> 00:42:59.680 And, uh, um, the other thing that we run into quite a bit in those situations 00:42:59.680 --> 00:43:05.540 is, is, uh, they're shooting firearms and they're, they have a campfire on 00:43:05.540 --> 00:43:09.300 the go and they're maybe shoot some fireworks off all in the same location. 00:43:09.310 --> 00:43:11.360 Cause they feel like this is a safe spot for us to do it. 00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:11.670 And then. 00:43:11.870 --> 00:43:13.600 You know, something, something causes a fire. 00:43:14.090 --> 00:43:16.750 Um, those ones are a little bit harder for us to put our finger on exactly what 00:43:16.750 --> 00:43:21.370 the cause was, but at the same time, it's, it's that sensible piece that, uh, 00:43:24.810 --> 00:43:28.680 I just, I can get a little, we can get pretty frustrated from a, from 00:43:28.680 --> 00:43:33.440 a wildfire standpoint because these typically are happening long weekends. 00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:36.330 You know, where there's a lot of people there and they can happen 00:43:36.330 --> 00:43:40.040 two or three fires under the right conditions can happen at the same time. 00:43:40.040 --> 00:43:42.400 So it really pushes our ability to respond. 00:43:43.140 --> 00:43:45.750 Travis Bader: What did Mark Twain, Samuel Clemens say? 00:43:45.830 --> 00:43:47.610 Common sense isn't that common, right? 00:43:49.135 --> 00:43:53.565 But yeah, shooting full propane canisters, they tend not to blow up. 00:43:53.785 --> 00:43:54.895 They tend not to light. 00:43:55.005 --> 00:43:58.575 You got to put them on a fire first, and then the little overpressure valve will 00:43:58.575 --> 00:44:03.185 come out and then you shoot at them, but they go flying and they'll fly everywhere. 00:44:03.205 --> 00:44:05.335 I'm sure people have seen videos of these things and you have no 00:44:05.335 --> 00:44:06.715 idea where these things are going. 00:44:06.785 --> 00:44:09.714 So, um, not a good idea, 00:44:09.715 --> 00:44:11.015 Alan Berry: but also metal, right? 00:44:11.035 --> 00:44:13.945 So, uh, and it may not necessarily be the propane. 00:44:14.265 --> 00:44:16.985 Itself that there's the issue, but you're shooting at a metal target. 00:44:17.115 --> 00:44:17.385 Right. 00:44:17.435 --> 00:44:20.615 Um, and then for us, when we're responding, we show up there, we can't 00:44:20.615 --> 00:44:22.505 actually go fight the fire right away. 00:44:22.505 --> 00:44:25.475 Cause we're not sure is that, you know, has it been blevied? 00:44:25.485 --> 00:44:27.785 Is there, or do we have to wait? 00:44:27.785 --> 00:44:30.105 So a lot of times it's just things like that. 00:44:30.105 --> 00:44:34.695 And, and then the non vegetative component to that as well. 00:44:34.715 --> 00:44:38.785 Um, so we, we don't attack a wildfire, the BC wildfire service doesn't with 00:44:38.865 --> 00:44:41.655 like the self contained breathing apparatus or anything like that, like a, 00:44:42.275 --> 00:44:44.315 um, a structural fire department would. 00:44:44.315 --> 00:44:44.565 Right. 00:44:45.270 --> 00:44:50.090 We have to stay, um, upwind of, uh, the non vegetative stuff. 00:44:50.090 --> 00:44:53.000 And a lot of times that limits our ability to actually get in there and respond. 00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:57.140 So when you, sometimes we will show up to some areas where there's a lot 00:44:57.140 --> 00:45:01.500 of debris that's around non vegetative debris, and we can't fight the fire 00:45:01.500 --> 00:45:03.670 right away, or we have to take different tactics and how we're going to. 00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.380 Travis Bader: And you mentioned blevy, boiling liquid, expanding 00:45:08.380 --> 00:45:10.640 vapor explosion for people who are like, what is he talking about? 00:45:11.125 --> 00:45:14.465 And then of course, yeah, you're fighting the forest fire. 00:45:14.475 --> 00:45:18.085 You're not, um, are you going around with a little, uh, I think 00:45:18.085 --> 00:45:19.585 they call them piss pots, the, uh, 00:45:19.845 --> 00:45:20.795 Alan Berry: hand tank pump or 00:45:21.415 --> 00:45:21.805 Travis Bader: yeah, 00:45:21.975 --> 00:45:24.585 Alan Berry: I think a few different terms for them, but we'll, we'll call 00:45:24.585 --> 00:45:26.075 them a hand tank pump on this one. 00:45:26.475 --> 00:45:29.875 Um, yeah, it depends on what, you know, what we need in, in most 00:45:29.875 --> 00:45:32.735 cases for us, uh, when we're in, in. 00:45:33.040 --> 00:45:35.530 Peak fire season, if the fire has a potential, especially in those 00:45:35.550 --> 00:45:39.720 open fuel types, we're going to use whatever means is at our disposal. 00:45:39.730 --> 00:45:42.990 One benefit that we have here on the coast is, is a lot of 00:45:42.990 --> 00:45:44.900 time water is quite available. 00:45:44.910 --> 00:45:48.120 Although we'll see what this fire season with where we're at with snowpack. 00:45:49.020 --> 00:45:49.390 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.260 Um, so many questions. 00:45:52.260 --> 00:45:55.410 So we different tangents, we can kind of go off on those things. 00:45:56.095 --> 00:46:00.535 You know, I remember, uh, years ago, the Kamloops fire, uh, I'd be 00:46:00.535 --> 00:46:05.325 in my mid twenties, I guess at the time, uh, the cabin up past Kamloops 00:46:05.345 --> 00:46:07.535 up in the Bonaparte Lake area. 00:46:07.605 --> 00:46:12.775 And, uh, went up there to detach the dock and take the propane canisters and float 00:46:12.775 --> 00:46:16.115 all that stuff that couldn't hike out into, cause it was hiking or flying only 00:46:16.115 --> 00:46:17.555 and put it into the center of the lake. 00:46:17.555 --> 00:46:21.805 And hopefully if the fire got by there, then who had salvaged some 00:46:21.805 --> 00:46:25.395 of this other Fire load and things like the generator and everything 00:46:25.395 --> 00:46:26.455 else that we didn't want to burn. 00:46:27.455 --> 00:46:29.505 And, uh, did, did all of that. 00:46:30.335 --> 00:46:33.525 Couldn't even see across the lake because of all the smoke and in my 00:46:33.535 --> 00:46:37.775 youth and my bright idea, I'm like, I've never seen a forest fire before. 00:46:37.775 --> 00:46:39.045 I want to see what this looks like. 00:46:39.065 --> 00:46:39.925 I want to see the flames. 00:46:39.965 --> 00:46:40.445 Right. 00:46:40.475 --> 00:46:45.725 So, um, Anyways, I hike on out, take the vehicle, drive up 00:46:45.725 --> 00:46:47.435 until I start getting closer. 00:46:47.435 --> 00:46:49.345 It's a bit smokier. 00:46:49.345 --> 00:46:52.765 And then I started seeing fire crews and they're boogieing out of there and 00:46:52.765 --> 00:46:53.855 they're telling me, you better get out. 00:46:53.865 --> 00:46:54.725 The fire's growing. 00:46:54.725 --> 00:46:55.505 It's coming fast. 00:46:55.585 --> 00:46:56.475 That's not a good sign. 00:46:56.605 --> 00:46:57.785 When the fire crews are going. 00:46:57.835 --> 00:46:58.275 Right. 00:46:58.685 --> 00:47:00.125 I'm like, okay, I'll just go up. 00:47:00.125 --> 00:47:00.955 I'll just get close enough. 00:47:00.955 --> 00:47:02.465 So I can, I just want to see the flames. 00:47:02.465 --> 00:47:02.655 Right. 00:47:02.675 --> 00:47:06.285 Like how fast can a fire, I know how fast fires go. 00:47:06.285 --> 00:47:08.645 They can't go faster than my, than my What was I in? 00:47:08.655 --> 00:47:10.515 It wasn't my wood panel station wagon. 00:47:10.645 --> 00:47:17.685 It was, uh, I think it was my, uh, 1980 F 250 with the dual diesel tanks on it. 00:47:17.705 --> 00:47:21.035 And, uh, can't go faster than my truck that has basically no brakes. 00:47:21.505 --> 00:47:26.055 Um, but I didn't take into account wind shift in the fact that. 00:47:26.555 --> 00:47:29.095 You can't see where you're trying to smoke hits. 00:47:29.435 --> 00:47:32.235 And I remember having to open up my door and look and keep feeling to 00:47:32.235 --> 00:47:33.815 make sure I'm still on the gravel. 00:47:33.815 --> 00:47:37.465 And am I dipping off the side and okay, now I get it. 00:47:37.605 --> 00:47:39.375 Now I get why they're getting out of here so quick. 00:47:39.535 --> 00:47:39.685 Alan Berry: Yeah. 00:47:39.685 --> 00:47:43.845 We come across the odd abandoned vehicle, in the aftermath when we go through 00:47:43.845 --> 00:47:45.765 and that, that wasn't here before. 00:47:46.195 --> 00:47:46.665 It was 00:47:46.665 --> 00:47:47.385 Travis Bader: completely. 00:47:48.080 --> 00:47:49.040 Not common sense. 00:47:49.040 --> 00:47:50.490 It was completely preventable. 00:47:50.570 --> 00:47:50.770 Yeah. 00:47:50.780 --> 00:47:51.040 Please 00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:51.680 Alan Berry: don't do that. 00:47:51.720 --> 00:47:52.060 Right. 00:47:52.810 --> 00:47:54.220 Travis Bader: Don't do what Donnie don't does. 00:47:54.420 --> 00:47:54.830 Well, 00:47:54.830 --> 00:48:01.530 Alan Berry: the, the serious side of that piece is a lot of times I, I've 00:48:01.900 --> 00:48:04.780 worked on incident management teams on a lot of some of the larger fires 00:48:04.830 --> 00:48:06.200 around the province over my career. 00:48:06.770 --> 00:48:07.180 And. 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.620 Uh, safety responders is our number one priority. 00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:13.120 Safety of the public is number two. 00:48:13.170 --> 00:48:17.760 And, and sometimes when we're in those situations where it's, it's a tactical 00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:19.310 evacuation, we got to get out of there. 00:48:19.580 --> 00:48:25.510 Um, sometimes the responders will put their, their safety compromise to 00:48:25.530 --> 00:48:27.190 make sure that the public can get out. 00:48:27.290 --> 00:48:30.540 And it's one thing when you're under an evacuation alert and then 00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:33.785 you've been, You know, order to get out or a tactical evacuation 00:48:33.785 --> 00:48:34.775 is when a fire just comes through. 00:48:34.775 --> 00:48:37.765 We don't have the ability to actually put alerts and orders in place 00:48:37.795 --> 00:48:40.185 or work with our local government partners to put those in place. 00:48:41.565 --> 00:48:47.245 And in those situations, um, unfortunately sometimes responders will 00:48:47.245 --> 00:48:52.455 put their lives at risk to, to, um, ensure that the public get out safely. 00:48:52.455 --> 00:48:54.495 So yeah, try to avoid those if we can, please. 00:48:54.725 --> 00:48:56.185 Travis Bader: Yeah, let's work together as a team. 00:48:56.305 --> 00:48:56.855 Alan Berry: Exactly. 00:48:57.165 --> 00:48:58.805 Um, yeah. 00:48:58.815 --> 00:48:59.415 What else? 00:48:59.525 --> 00:49:03.545 If you want to see a fire, I can show you our recruiting, uh, strategy here. 00:49:03.545 --> 00:49:06.345 I think you'd make a great, uh, fire crew member come up for a year. 00:49:06.465 --> 00:49:07.305 You've really, uh, 00:49:08.005 --> 00:49:13.235 Travis Bader: I've seen lots of fire sets, but yes, I, um, yeah, maybe would be, uh, 00:49:13.295 --> 00:49:16.815 get outside, get a little bit of exercise and carry around a little, uh, jerry can. 00:49:17.195 --> 00:49:18.169 Alan Berry: Yeah, no, I think we're, we're good. 00:49:18.540 --> 00:49:21.980 We're always looking for opportunities to hire, uh, uh, folks, especially 00:49:21.980 --> 00:49:24.440 with a, with an outdoor recreation background like yourself. 00:49:24.520 --> 00:49:27.850 Travis Bader: I'd have a first hand insight on where the morale 00:49:27.850 --> 00:49:28.950 is going to be the next year. 00:49:30.820 --> 00:49:34.430 Um, yeah, I guess the other piece of the puzzle, which I think people 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.930 might find useful would be some of the websites that you guys have. 00:49:38.490 --> 00:49:39.360 Alan Berry: Yeah, absolutely. 00:49:39.370 --> 00:49:46.395 So our, this, this past year, our, our App, um, has gone over or 00:49:46.395 --> 00:49:48.105 has received a bit of a facelift. 00:49:48.175 --> 00:49:50.985 A lot of feedback was provided in the past few years. 00:49:51.275 --> 00:49:55.315 And now this year it's rolled out to, if you have it on your phone already, 00:49:55.385 --> 00:49:59.005 the BC wildfire service app, um, it you'll see that it's already got its, 00:49:59.015 --> 00:50:01.855 it's facelift and there's a whole bunch of new options in it and it's a, it's 00:50:01.855 --> 00:50:05.435 a wealth of information on everything from open fire prohibitions and, and. 00:50:05.660 --> 00:50:09.910 Information on, uh, existing fires that are happening, like what's out on them. 00:50:09.910 --> 00:50:10.630 What are we doing? 00:50:10.890 --> 00:50:15.160 And fires in a lot of cases, uh, we're, we're in, uh, we 00:50:15.450 --> 00:50:16.460 call it modified response. 00:50:16.470 --> 00:50:19.720 So we're, we're watching them, but we're not actually doing any 00:50:20.170 --> 00:50:23.100 action maybe currently, or we're just doing minor action on it. 00:50:23.110 --> 00:50:25.709 A lot of times it's just protecting structures like your cabin on Bonaparte 00:50:25.709 --> 00:50:29.950 Lake, maybe, you know, when we're, when we're talking 20, 30, 000 hectare fires 00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:34.660 sometimes, um, and And minimal resources, especially the backcountry fires were 00:50:34.810 --> 00:50:38.720 likely not going to impact communities or, or, uh, critical infrastructure. 00:50:39.370 --> 00:50:42.400 Um, there's a ton of info that's on there and, and, uh, 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:43.550 it's a lot more user friendly. 00:50:43.550 --> 00:50:47.220 I've, I've noticed, uh, BC Welfare Service folks, we go to the app. 00:50:47.385 --> 00:50:48.305 To get the information. 00:50:48.335 --> 00:50:51.115 Yeah, because it's, it's the most current information that's available there. 00:50:51.115 --> 00:50:53.775 And a lot of times it's within minutes of getting it. 00:50:53.785 --> 00:50:54.735 Travis Bader: Does it geolocate? 00:50:54.775 --> 00:50:57.375 Like if I wanted to click and I say, let's say I'm traveling out 00:50:57.375 --> 00:50:58.865 of town and I'm, Oh, can I have a 00:50:58.865 --> 00:50:59.465 Alan Berry: fire here? 00:50:59.465 --> 00:50:59.845 Click. 00:50:59.975 --> 00:51:00.565 Absolutely. 00:51:00.655 --> 00:51:01.455 And that's awesome. 00:51:01.465 --> 00:51:05.165 And more importantly, if you see a fire, you actually have a report of 00:51:05.165 --> 00:51:09.145 fire function built into the app and you can take pictures of the fire 00:51:09.215 --> 00:51:13.035 and add it to, so it's a quick tick, bunch of tick boxes as you go through 00:51:13.035 --> 00:51:15.975 it and sends it off right to our, uh, provincial wildfire reporting center. 00:51:16.125 --> 00:51:16.775 Oh, that's pretty cool. 00:51:16.805 --> 00:51:17.165 And. 00:51:17.370 --> 00:51:21.920 And so prevention is my day job, but when I'm, uh, when we're in 00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:24.820 peak fire season, I help out a lot in the coordination officer role. 00:51:24.820 --> 00:51:29.810 So report or responding preparedness, responding out for crews and resources. 00:51:29.810 --> 00:51:33.270 So when you get multiple reports that come through to be 00:51:33.270 --> 00:51:35.280 able to see a picture of one. 00:51:35.290 --> 00:51:38.280 So when we're allocating resources or actually reroute 00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:39.730 the air tankers to this one. 00:51:40.205 --> 00:51:42.635 Based off this picture, it is a thousand words for sure. 00:51:42.665 --> 00:51:43.345 Travis Bader: No kidding. 00:51:43.735 --> 00:51:45.805 Well, I like that geo locate function as well. 00:51:45.805 --> 00:51:50.375 I think that's, I remember I was in a moose hunt last year and, uh, I was in 00:51:50.375 --> 00:51:54.475 an area that was close to some fire bans and I'm like, can I have a fire here? 00:51:54.475 --> 00:51:55.095 Can I not? 00:51:55.125 --> 00:51:57.915 And so I'm trying to figure out like what the fire areas are. 00:51:57.915 --> 00:52:02.775 But if that's all, if that's all available through Google earth or 00:52:02.805 --> 00:52:06.875 however, however those things overlaid that the different fire regions overlay, 00:52:06.875 --> 00:52:08.565 I Man, that makes my life a lot easier. 00:52:08.905 --> 00:52:09.235 Like 00:52:09.815 --> 00:52:11.395 Alan Berry: I said, there's been a lot of improvements to the app. 00:52:11.555 --> 00:52:15.705 So I'm, I'm, I'm excited to, for folks to use it this year and 00:52:15.715 --> 00:52:18.685 for us to continue to, uh, look for opportunities to improve it. 00:52:18.685 --> 00:52:21.975 But that one stop shop, I think is a really important tool. 00:52:22.575 --> 00:52:23.975 And then, uh, you've got a 00:52:23.975 --> 00:52:24.985 Travis Bader: website as well, too. 00:52:24.985 --> 00:52:25.535 Yeah. 00:52:25.535 --> 00:52:27.505 Alan Berry: The public website, bcwildfire. 00:52:27.525 --> 00:52:27.935 ca. 00:52:27.975 --> 00:52:31.235 That's where you can get in a bit more information on existing. 00:52:31.235 --> 00:52:32.935 So we've got our dashboard on all the fires. 00:52:33.105 --> 00:52:37.015 It's very similar information to what's in the app, but there's also a lot of 00:52:37.585 --> 00:52:42.075 really good, uh, tools for folks say that are conducting industrial activities 00:52:42.085 --> 00:52:44.435 to go in and have an understanding of what they need to do for fire 00:52:44.535 --> 00:52:45.985 prevention plans and stuff like that. 00:52:46.325 --> 00:52:49.625 Um, and to just an insight into our organization, even 00:52:49.855 --> 00:52:50.675 all the way to recruiting. 00:52:50.905 --> 00:52:56.335 So I, any, anybody who's keen and eager to become a BC wildfire service 00:52:56.335 --> 00:52:59.635 employee, uh, or new recruit, we always ask them to go to the website 00:52:59.635 --> 00:53:01.545 and digest as much of it as you can. 00:53:01.565 --> 00:53:03.495 Cause likely those are going to be the questions you're going to get. 00:53:04.335 --> 00:53:05.165 Travis Bader: Tons of info there. 00:53:05.225 --> 00:53:08.735 Inside tip three there, that was my thing I did in high school. 00:53:09.155 --> 00:53:13.455 I'd be sleeping and I'd hear, this is important, or you might be asked on this. 00:53:13.475 --> 00:53:15.075 Okay, wake up. 00:53:15.165 --> 00:53:16.225 That's going to be on the test. 00:53:16.295 --> 00:53:16.745 I know it. 00:53:17.295 --> 00:53:22.435 So anybody looking to be, you know, In the BC wildfire service, look 00:53:22.435 --> 00:53:24.005 at that website because I bet you. 00:53:24.625 --> 00:53:25.735 There's some good, good info. 00:53:25.735 --> 00:53:26.035 That's going to 00:53:26.065 --> 00:53:26.925 Alan Berry: help you with your interview. 00:53:27.175 --> 00:53:27.815 Travis Bader: That's right. 00:53:28.235 --> 00:53:31.095 Uh, anything else we should chat about before we wrap things up? 00:53:32.345 --> 00:53:36.985 Alan Berry: Um, no, I think, I think I've rambled on long enough here for you today. 00:53:36.985 --> 00:53:42.305 I appreciate the opportunity to come onto your show and I Uh, um, as far as next 00:53:42.305 --> 00:53:47.175 steps go, if there's an opportunity for us to put a link into, uh, this podcast 00:53:47.175 --> 00:53:50.605 on, if people have more questions, where they can go to get some more answers from 00:53:50.605 --> 00:53:56.565 myself or, um, Kimberly, who's much more intelligent, as I mentioned that I am. 00:53:56.935 --> 00:53:59.595 Um, and, uh, you know, I'd like to be able to share that as well. 00:53:59.615 --> 00:53:59.875 She's 00:53:59.875 --> 00:54:00.335 Travis Bader: awesome. 00:54:00.425 --> 00:54:00.695 Yeah. 00:54:00.695 --> 00:54:02.865 I'm really glad that too, you were able to make it over here. 00:54:03.085 --> 00:54:05.655 And, uh, your ferry wasn't too late, which is kind of nice. 00:54:06.355 --> 00:54:07.465 Alan Berry: It was a rough day out there. 00:54:07.555 --> 00:54:10.735 I got to say it kind of lulled me to sleep on the way over, but, uh, 00:54:10.895 --> 00:54:14.685 um, it, yeah, definitely appreciate any opportunity to get out of the 00:54:14.685 --> 00:54:19.675 office and, and, uh, um, reach out to folks and educate as much as we can. 00:54:19.725 --> 00:54:20.495 Travis Bader: Well, I enjoy that. 00:54:20.505 --> 00:54:23.795 And I would encourage anybody listening to this, check out the website, download 00:54:23.805 --> 00:54:28.225 the app, use the app, makes life really, really easy and, uh, tell others that are 00:54:28.235 --> 00:54:31.995 out in the, their similar communities. 00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:32.650 Yeah. 00:54:32.650 --> 00:54:38.240 Firearms account for a pretty small percentage of fires within, well, at least 00:54:38.240 --> 00:54:44.230 in the data in the U S and in BC, but the, the effect can be pretty substantial. 00:54:45.240 --> 00:54:47.880 And for all the people out there that are saying, Trav, why are 00:54:47.880 --> 00:54:48.890 you talking with these people? 00:54:48.890 --> 00:54:50.340 They're just going to limit our ability. 00:54:51.330 --> 00:54:55.000 I personally think that education is a much better piece of the puzzle. 00:54:55.010 --> 00:54:57.950 And the more that we're able to have these conversations within our own 00:54:57.950 --> 00:54:59.530 communities, we can self regulate. 00:55:00.245 --> 00:55:02.265 We're able to share this information. 00:55:02.675 --> 00:55:02.925 Yeah. 00:55:02.925 --> 00:55:05.025 Maybe we clear a little bit of area around our targets. 00:55:05.025 --> 00:55:08.005 Maybe we take a look at what our backstop looks like and what that 00:55:08.005 --> 00:55:13.235 fuel load looks like, and maybe we change up what we're shooting at and 00:55:13.575 --> 00:55:15.125 maybe we just don't shoot in that day. 00:55:15.135 --> 00:55:17.135 So there's, there's, there's a lot of different options 00:55:17.135 --> 00:55:18.305 that we can kind of take. 00:55:18.485 --> 00:55:19.925 It'll never stop the bad apples. 00:55:19.925 --> 00:55:21.405 There's no way to prevent that, but. 00:55:22.005 --> 00:55:25.415 Do you think that, uh, chatting about this is an important piece of the puzzle? 00:55:26.585 --> 00:55:27.105 I 100 percent agree. 00:55:27.135 --> 00:55:27.575 Thank you very much. 00:55:27.835 --> 00:55:28.145 Thank you.