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What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team and systems, mastering money issues, and more; then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth-generating law firm? That’s what we do each week on the Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast. Hosted by Davina Frederick, founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer –– every episode is an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve (and will pay you on time), and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. The goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund, and still have time to enjoy, the lifestyle of your dreams.
Our firm values and our firm's culture is really important. And we ask questions during the interviews that really, I feel help us to get to the heart of the matter of, is this the right fit for you? Is this the right culture? You are we're not the best paying law firm in Miami. There's definitely family law firms that pay better, but we but you're not answering calls weekends.
Intro:Welcome to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. What if you could hang out with successful women lawyers, ask them about growing their firms, managing resources like time, team, and systems, mastering money issues, and more? Then take an insight or two to help you build a wealth generating law firm. Each week, your host, Devina Frederick, takes an in-depth look at how to think like a CEO, attract clients who you love to serve and will pay you on time, and create a profitable, sustainable firm you love. Devina is founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer, and her goal is to give you the information you need to scale your law firm business from 6 to 7 figures in gross annual revenue so you can fully fund and still have time to enjoy the lifestyle of your dreams.
Intro:Now here's Davina.
Davina:Hi, everyone, and welcome back to the Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast. I'm your host, Davina Fredrick, and my guest today is Vanessa Vasquez de laura who is the founder and owner of Vanessa de laura Law Group. Vanessa has dedicated her life to helping families navigate the intricacies of the law by ensuring their rights are honored and upheld in family court. She graduated cum laude from the University of Miami School of Law in 2002. And shortly after starting her own law firm in 2015, she was named to the Super Lawyer's Rising Stars.
Davina:She's been recognized as one of the elite family law attorneys in Miami and named to the Super Lawyers list every year since 2016. Vanessa currently serves as the president of the Coral Gables Bar Association, and she's on the board of the Miami Dade County Bar Association. She's also been featured multiple times on Univision's Desperta America, the number one radio national morning show on Spanish language television that's been running for two more than two decades. So please join me in welcoming Vanessa.
Vanessa:Good morning, Davina. How are you?
Davina:I'm doing well. How are things in sunny Miami, Florida?
Vanessa:They are sunny. I just came back from Phoenix where I was at this weekend, and there was a random cold snap, but it was, like, 50 degrees. It was nice to come back
Davina:to my nice sunny 75, 80 degree weather. I'm a native Floridian, and I had just moved away six months ago, less than six months ago from Florida. So first time I've lived in any place besides Florida my entire life. I moved to Colorado, and we absolutely love it here. It's so beautiful.
Davina:But it's a lot colder for sure.
Vanessa:I'm doing I am a hot blooded Caribbean girl. I get not anywhere that regularly is in below the sixties.
Davina:Oh, see. I absolutely love it. After a lifetime of Florida, I couldn't get any more hot. I was so over it. Alright.
Davina:So let's jump in and get started. Why don't you tell me about just first of all, tell me about your law firm and who you serve, how you serve your clients, that kind of thing.
Vanessa:Absolutely. So I've I have the Vasquez Laura Law Group, and we are a law firm here in Miami, Florida. And we are looking to make our make lives better in and out of family court. Our ideal clients tend to be divorcing dads, but we actually service, you know, both both sides, parents, you know, moms and dads. And we're doing that with a team of about 25 people right now.
Davina:I've got, six associates and support galore. Oh, good. Good. Good. So that's what we wanna ask you about.
Davina:We have a lot of questions about the growth of your law firm. I know our audience is really gonna be interested in that. But let's go back to the beginning and start. Did little Vanessa know that she wanted to grow up and be a lawyer, or was this something that evolved in your through your lifetime?
Vanessa:So I think it it was probably an undercurrent of being an attorney. Like, most Hispanic families that feel like there's a, you know, there is there's a whole you can be a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, and science is not my thing. So Yeah. That wasn't something that was explicitly stated. When I was growing up, I actually wanted to be a pilot.
Vanessa:And for high school, I was even in a in a special aviation magnet program here in Miami. But it's hard to be a pilot if you don't wanna go into the military. So I I left those aspirations behind. Right. And my undergrad actually chose it because their advertising, marketing materials said that every pre law student of their choice had gone into the law school of their choice.
Vanessa:And I was like, Well, I don't know how many pre law students there were. I never found that major. I actually majored in business and international business, but took the LSAT before I graduated and, you know, went to the University of Miami.
Davina:I I came home. I didn't wanna leave again. So, you know, I'm a proud hurricane. Yeah. Yeah.
Davina:You're are there any other lawyers in your family, or were you the first?
Vanessa:I am the first as far as I know. There may be, like, you know, lots of outside branches, but definitely of everybody that I know, I'm I'm the only attorney.
Davina:Right. Right. So you really sort of probably, you really did the family proud by becoming a lawyer. I like to think so. So tell me your when you, went to law school, did you have kind of an idea of what type of attorney you wanted to be?
Davina:Did you always know you wanna be a family law attorney, or did that evolve?
Vanessa:Not at all. I think our our colleges and our law schools in this country do such a bad job of helping the students understand, like, this will help you to be that. And here's what you should do, and here's what you should think about, and here's what you should research. I really did not. I I said in law school, wouldn't do criminal law, I wouldn't do family law.
Vanessa:So, apparently, the only thing I will do is criminal law. Right now. Right now. It's been twenty years. Not too early, but you just never know.
Vanessa:So yeah. So, you know, it's really one of those things that I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. And, yeah, I graduated. You know, I took a few months to kind of, like, chillax. And then I just started looking for any job, any associate job.
Vanessa:And my first associate job was actually as a probate attorney. And so that's kind of how my career started. And but we were living, you know, since you're a Floridian. You may know some of the the distances, but I grew up in Kendall, which is kind of suburbs of Miami. But when we got married, my husband and moved to Sunny Isles, and that was right right when I graduated law school.
Vanessa:So it was a a a big commute back to our our church, our family. So within a year, we were like, okay. I think we need to I think we need to head back head back to our people. Yeah. And I took a job as a family attorney, and it, like, kinda brought the probate with me to that burn.
Vanessa:And I that's that's kind of where
Davina:what I've been doing ever since. I stopped practicing probate about five years ago, but I, I I'm still here in the family, business. What is it that you so you so we know commonly, those of us who practice family law that people say you either love it or you hate it. Right? And you you have to love it to stick with it for as long as you have.
Davina:So what is it that you like about family law? I love being able to help families.
Vanessa:I love being able to to take our clients and be able to explain to them our system, to be able to to tell them this is your best day in court. This is your worst day in court. This is what you can expect. This is what I can recommend at this point. I I've I have a family.
Vanessa:I have children. I I have a husband. There's some of that real life aspect that I kind of, you know, bring into the into the mix. I was in mediation audit yesterday, and, you know, I I just kept encouraging my client that at the end of the day, it feels like you're conceding, but these are things that are better for your ex and for your child. Just think about that.
Vanessa:This is better for your child than, you know, than than something else. And so I I love being able to bring that sort of humanity into family law and and reminding them of why they're doing this and, you know, trying to, you know, kinda like the the bumper rails in in Boli where you're trying to keep them on the lane. Like, don't go to the next don't go to your neighbor's lane. That's not your business. That's not what's best for you.
Vanessa:Stay in your lane.
Davina:Yeah. It's a very highly emotionally charged practice area, you know, because personal interpersonal relationships are like that. So it's nice to be able to keep that bring that level head and and that encouragement for people that this too shall pass, and we need to get through it, and and this is the way to do it. So I I enjoyed that aspect of family law as well. Tell me about what led you to start your own law firm.
Davina:You were work you had a job. I assume you were making good money and rocking right along. What moment has obviously, now so there was a moment that happened, and you said, this is not working for me. What was that moment?
Vanessa:So, you know, when I had my first son, who is now 18, I, you know, I really didn't take much of a maternity leave. I didn't deal with a maternity policy in my firm, and I was really sort of my my boss' only real associate. So I was you know, she kind of was a bit, you know, distraught when when I was out of the office. So I came back much sooner than I had hoped. And I came back part time, but I came back after six weeks of, you know, after I had my son.
Vanessa:And, you know, I always sort of regretted that. And I had the opportunity to continue working part time. So in that sense, I was really good. I was able to really be present with my son. But when I had when I was gonna have my second one, I just wasn't as happy at that firm as I, you know, I and I initially was.
Vanessa:And so I just, you know, told them about, hey. I I'm I'm not gonna come back. You know, when I have the baby, I'm giving you the notice now. I think I gave her, like, three or four weeks notice before I was scheduled, you know, to to have the baby. And I'm like, I can help you if you need it.
Vanessa:You can reach out to me, but but I'm not coming back. You know? So I I gave her that that notice so that I knew that I I was comfortable, that I was gonna be able to wrap whatever, you know, up. And and I actually ended up staying home with the boys for, you know, for a few years. I bought a scrapbooking store.
Vanessa:I closed a scrapbooking store, and I had an online scrapbooking store. And there came a point where I just kinda went, I'm selling $1 sheets of paper, and I'm a lawyer. And maybe I should go back to lawyer. So
Davina:Do you do you think you hit that? Do you think you hit it was like a it sounds like there was a burnout because you were so she counted on you so much. And then you're like, I need to just I need a break from this. And the motherhood gave you that sort of reason to step away from that. What did you discover about yourself when you kind of took that detour and said, maybe I need to do something else or be something else?
Davina:What did you discover about yourself?
Vanessa:So I discovered that I really loved owning a store, but that I wasn't very good at it. I think I'll be a better shop owner today than I I was fifteen years ago when I had the store. But I I really enjoyed, you know, the you know, being sort of, like, at the register register and saying hi to all of our customers. It was a the store had been around for about ten years, so there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of repeat customers, and we used to do a girls' night out. So, you know, it was it was a very enjoyable enjoyed, period of time for me where I kind of got to, you know, be creative and and kind of I'm actually not very creative, so I I love taking art classes and, you know, getting to to play and and see other people be the creative vision, and I just had to put it together following, you know, one, two, three step instruction.
Vanessa:Yeah. But I really enjoyed being home with my kids. I I love to tell attorneys that are are stressed about, you know, their careers derailing and they step up. Like, listen, it's doable. I left it.
Vanessa:You know, I left firm life. I stayed home for, you know, for about three years, three and a half years. And then I just, you know, got right back on the on ramp. You know? I I don't think that that that is something that should be as worrisome, for parents, whether men or women, when they are thinking of taking those kind of break.
Davina:Yeah. I'm not a parent, and I did the same thing. I stepped away from my after my first law practice, I stepped away for a while. Opened a gym and with my husband, and we owed a gym for a while. And then I eventually got back into the law with my second law firm.
Davina:So I understand what that's like kind of and it was a it was a it was a wonderful opportunity to be able to check-in with myself and go, what what was it about that experience that didn't work for me? And can I create a different experience in the law? And I think that's the gift that comes out of something like that is, like, you really get to think there's another way to do this than the way that I've been doing it. And so that way for you is to start your own firm. So what what kind of led you to think, I'm gonna start my firm instead of getting another job?
Vanessa:It's funny because I used to say when I worked at that other firm that I would never start my own firm. My boss always seems to have thought it, always always seems a little bit harried. But, you know, that the reality is that I had the the the blessing really of being able to have a husband who supported me when I stopped working and and have a husband still supported me when, you know, when I opened the firm. So I did have that ability to, you know, to not have to stress about, I need to replace my salary. So I was able to really start it just very slowly.
Vanessa:I I rented an office one day a week, and I would drop the kids off. They they were both in part time preschool, and I would drop them off at eight, 08:30. I'd pick them up at 12:30, and I just worked for a few hours. And I was able to really do that. So I was able to build a friend very organically by just, you know, starting out one day a week, then two days a week, and then, you know, slowly built it up into, you know, a a 7 figure business that it is today.
Vanessa:So I I really love that aspect of it that I was able to sort of more consciously choose how to build it, and I've really prioritized our our firm's culture. I don't get it right all the time. I don't think everybody does, but it is a you know, something that is at the forefront of the things that we do in our firm because I I wanna see what I didn't have or what, you know, I didn't know to ask for or, you know, just anything that will allow, especially my associates, to be able to to thrive and and to be happier than I was when Right. You know, when I was an associate.
Davina:Right. So you don't wanna create that pressure cooker feeling that you had because somebody relied so much on you. It's one of the things that I talk a lot with women law firm owners is that, you know, people sort of envision the first associate, and they don't really think beyond that. And I think that's a huge mistake because not just from a money making standpoint, but from a standpoint of redundancy and bringing down the stress level in everybody in your firm. When you have more people, you have more team players to help get the job done, and that takes the pressure off individuals, which is often what we see happen, right, when people just hire one associate and then they work that associate to death.
Davina:That person leaves, and they're right back to square one. Did you make that sort of mistake at the beginning with starting your firm? You you did it part time, and then you grew. When did you hire your first associate?
Vanessa:Oh goodness. Let me think. I wanna say it was, like, 2016, 2017. And and So you had been
Davina:in business for how long? So I went back to work around
Vanessa:Joshua was born in 2008. We opened officially 2012. I'd been practicing about three, four years. I had a part time associate then I brought out a full time associate. And then the part timer left.
Vanessa:Then we brought on another full timer. And since then, I don't think we've ever had just one associate. And we've it's it's literally exactly what you're saying that I you know, we we got the the news that one of our paralegals was leaving recently. And I was you know, I when I was in Phoenix, I was with this amazing group of women at a, you know, at a at a retreat. And they were like, well, are you worried?
Vanessa:And I'm like, no. There's four there's three other paralegals that we decided another one that starts in two weeks. So do I hate the shing, bleeding? Of course. But I'm not stressed about it because, yeah, dividing one employee's, you know, labor into four other people is very manageable.
Vanessa:But, yeah, when, you know, when there was absolutely a time when we lost, you know, two associates, like, within three, four months of each other. And I only had two associates left. I had four. I lost two. And at that point, you know, you really can't divide two workloads into two more people.
Vanessa:So that really put me back into production. But then that just encouraged me to hire two more as quickly as possible Right. And and train them together so that I'd be able to kind of, you know, do a personal training one on one with me. And and that way, we'd be able to, to ramp them up and get them comfortable as quickly as possible. It's definitely hard to consider that you would hire multiple employees, but it really is, you know, that that that's really the the catalyst to being able to make more money and being able to free yourself because you can't be out of production when you only have one person, you know, doing all the things, and that person is you.
Vanessa:Or there's only one other person, and that person leaves, and then it's back to it's all you. Yeah. You know? Let me
Davina:ask you. I'm sorry. Let me ask you this. Your what were your feelings around hiring that first associate? Because I know a lot of people that have so much fear, and they almost, like, build up in their head to be bigger than it is.
Davina:There's so much fear around hiring another lawyer. And so it feels different from hiring a staff person because suddenly it's a peer that you're hiring. And will they think you're a bad lawyer? Will they think you're a mess? Will they think there's that aspect that I think nobody talks about?
Davina:And then there's the aspect of how can I pay this person? That's a big salary. How are you gonna do that? Did you have those thoughts when you
Vanessa:first hired an associate? Of course. Everybody does. The reality is that I think we we stress out because we're thinking of what an associate's gonna make in a year, what this is gonna cost you in a year. And, you know, this was a while ago.
Vanessa:So, you know, I I will tell you that that that that associate value is probably like in the 50,000 range. And when you're thinking like $50,000, you know, that's like, but I only need 50,000 today. Today, In need
Davina:two weeks, I need 2,000. Whatever then.
Vanessa:Yeah. And then in another two weeks, I need another 2,000. When you break that down, it's sort of like you know, almost like the reverse engineering that that I feel is is so important on all your sort of, like, things that feel very overwhelming. When you think about the fact that you just leave the next paycheck and the next paycheck Right. The next paycheck.
Vanessa:And, you know, and and in family law, 2,000 is like one client.
Davina:Right.
Vanessa:You know, that's that's not even one client. That's like half a client. Yeah. So And that's like And
Davina:that person should be making that money for you because they're taking on that extra client like, you don't have time to take on for sure. What would you did you have the same thought process process then when you started adding associates, or was that was another level of sort of fear around that?
Vanessa:The the first few, I was really good about that. You know, the first few staff, I remember doing a a talk. I was a speaker back in in lawyernomics. Back when Avel used to put that together. And I remember telling you know, talking about it in my speech where every employee that I brought on doubled our firm's income.
Vanessa:And it's it's it was almost like magic in the beginning. And it's not because these people revolutionized my practice, but it's because it frees you up and you don't realize how about down you are in all the things until you're not doing the thing. You know, like, you you're doing the secretarial labor. You're doing the paralegal labor. You're doing the the receptionist labor.
Vanessa:You're doing you know, you're doing all the jobs, and and that can be very it it's not necessarily that, oh, it took so much of my turn, but that's, like, that mental load of caring for all of those jobs for the firm. So as soon as you unload that, it's like clarity, and you're able to not only free your time, but free your mental ability to consider what's the best use of my time. Is it to do consultations? Is it to go out and network? And back then, I didn't have any money to spend any money, so networking, I was.
Vanessa:And, you know, and and that, you know and I feel that that was really the reason why, you know, we were able to increase our revenue, you know, so much. So in the beginning, like, it was very sort of like almost like one to one, and I would see that happening, And that was really exciting. But it does get to a point where you're like, it's not possible. And now my payroll is 10,000, not 2,000 or 15 or 20. And you start sort of like, okay.
Vanessa:That's, you know, that's that's not one client. That's, like, buying in person.
Davina:Right. Right. Right. And so that's a whole different level of mindset that you have to get to. We can if we can do one, we can get five.
Davina:Right? I will before we and before we go down that path, I wanted to go back and ask you, what did you did you ever struggle with delegating? Because I see people hire and then still hang on to things. And and if you did, well, how did you overcome it? And was there anything in particular that was the hardest thing for you to let go of?
Davina:I know that was a that was like a triple question at what.
Vanessa:But God. Creation objection. So I I have to tell you that one of my superpowers is being able to delegate. I I don't struggle with that. I I I think that I am not the typical attorney and that I am not a perfectionist, so I don't feel that I need to review it and and every single detail.
Vanessa:And and I and I do think I got that probably from that last boss. You know, she perhaps because of, you know, the load and, you know, I I she had a a family firm and a title company for real estate. So, you know, so she was always sort of, like, doing all the things that she delegated very easily to me, all the sort of associate lawyer work. So I I sort of had that as an example. So I thought it's it's definitely one of the things that I I did not struggle with.
Vanessa:And when I hire associates, I let them have their caseload. We meet very regularly to make sure that, you know, that they're on top of it, that they're that I'm helping them to to think big picture, to strategize. But I am I'm not super worried or super concerned about delegating. It might be that in family law, I think a little bit different than in some of the other things. So few things are unfixable.
Vanessa:There's no statute of limitations that you can blow. Even you make mistake, even if it's a big mistake, almost always it's fixable. You can ask for re hearing. You can ask for you know, you can you can do a lot of things so that you can amend the pleading. You can, you know, like and Our judges are not such sticklers that there's a little typo or something, the judge is going to blow up.
Vanessa:That really helped me to be able to let go. And and so that that I I thankfully have not struggled too much with. There's always gonna be things that you keep, you know, closer to the best and you that you feel like you can't let go. But the the freedom on the other side of being able to delegate is so amazing that I honestly feel that if perfectionist ever got to the other side, they'd let go. They they'd be better at it.
Vanessa:You know, for for those that that might be listening or watching, absolutely, they they they they need to try it. They small doses, but they gotta try it because you you really are able to do so much more. I took a two week spring break because my son's school gave him two weeks, and I was a little connected. But I told my staff. I was like, don't email me.
Vanessa:Don't copy me. Don't anything. If if the building is on fire, call me, but otherwise, try not to need me. Yeah. And they really they really didn't for the most part.
Davina:You know? Yeah. And I It's wonderful to be able to have that to be able to have people on your team who can function with that autonomy. And do you what do you think your I'm sure just like everybody else, you've had people come and go, and there were probably times that you thought, oh my god. I will never be able to get the right people on my team.
Davina:But what do you think do you have any sort of secret to sort of getting those right people on your team who are the critical thinkers who don't need that kind of hand holding?
Vanessa:I think it's really important to make sure that you are vetting the staff, of course, but not just about, you know, their legal knowledge, but about just their thought process in general. Their, you know, how they work best, how they are able to, you know, to really put forth their best effort and trying to dig that out. Our firm values and our firm's culture is really important. We ask questions during the interviews that really, I feel, help us to get to the heart of the matter of, is this the right fit for you? Is this the right culture?
Vanessa:You are we're not the best paying law firm in Miami. There's definitely family law firms that pay better, but we but you're not answering calls weekends. You're not answering calls at night. We end the day, you know, when you leave the office, that should be the end of your day. Obviously, we're the lawyers.
Vanessa:If you have a hearing tomorrow, you may be prepping at night, but, you know but there isn't an expectation, which I find in a lot of family law firms where you're sort of on call as if you're a doctor, and there isn't anything that I can do at 8PM for you. Like, if if you're getting arrested, you gotta call your family for a bondage and you're trying to call me. You know, like, there's just so little that our team can really do in those circumstances that we, you know, we we've really trained our clients, like, that this is not how we operate. And and I feel that that that's kind of like a something that that sets our fair apart as for our employees. And that allows them to sort of be able to, you know, to then have that elusive work life balance.
Vanessa:But we ask questions. We really try to probe when we're interviewing people to make sure that they understand the type of culture that they're getting into. One of our core values is family. I like to say that a strong family, so we have your back like a family, but we're not afraid to tell you when you're screwing it up just like family should. I want to make sure that we are attracting the right people and that we're repelling the wrong people in our advertising, in our marketing.
Vanessa:Our marketing is intended for our clients just as it is for our staff. We've had people apply that are like, I've been watching your one ads because I I wanted to work for you, and it just wasn't the right time. So I've been keeping an eye out, and that is really gratifying to hear that, you know, that that the that what we're doing is is attracting people long term, you know, that they're keeping an eye out for for when we have opening. I think we've underestimate how our a lot
Davina:of people think in terms of core values as this is an exercise I have to do. Right? And it doesn't really mean anything. Or they think of core values in terms of marketing to get clients. But core values are really intrinsic to how we function, how we especially if you're the it's gonna come from you if you're the leader of the firm that you're growing.
Davina:You're creating a culture that fits who you are as a person and who you wanna attract. And that works not only with clients but also, and more importantly, with team members because you want people who are coming to work with you who I who aren't just coming because they need a job and a paycheck. But they A 100%. Come because of the the mission, the work. Yep.
Davina:And being a part of an organization where they feel included and part of it. How do you think you how do you think you do that? Right? What are your I know you've done probably done core value work and all of that, but how does that show up practically
Vanessa:I can tell you exactly how I did that. I attended a leadership workshop where the facilitator talked to us about making sure that the team members are buying into your core values. Right? And the practical application of that is that we will we have staff meetings on all all hands staff meeting three times a week. And what we will do is every other week, we will have the staff nominate another staffer based on something that they've seen over the last two weeks and based on one of our at least one of our core values.
Vanessa:So, you know, Melissa will nominate Ashley for teamwork because Ashley jumped in when Melissa had a big hearing and helped her prep for that hearing. So, you know, she's nominated Ashley for for teamwork. And the the the entire team goes and nominates another team member, uses our, you know, that core value to be able to demonstrate that, you know, know, that what that nomination is for, and somebody wins every week. I don't pick. The team member that wins this week gets to pick the winner next you know, in the next one.
Vanessa:And so we I feel that that is our way of of sort of keeping an eye on each other and in a good way, looking for that, looking to you know, I don't think anybody is really helping and and doing teamwork in order to get nominated and get a $25 gift certificate. But Right.
Davina:They're just doing it because it's who they are.
Vanessa:Exactly. But, you know, but but it really builds on that family for our team because you're constantly getting that, you know, your your your team recognizes what you're doing, and they recognize, it feels nice when people say nice things about you. So that really helps to create a tighter bond with our team. It keeps And your eye out on, you know, on what our what our firm is doing and the the exemplification that that happens of our firm values.
Davina:Yeah. I imagine when you're interviewing people, you're weaving those core values in your questions. So you're probably asking people, and tell me about the last team you worked with and how that went for you or something. You're probably asking them questions around team and, and to give you examples of when they performed as a team or ask them if they like working in the team or if they like working alone and and all of that kind of stuff. Alright.
Davina:So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about Miami is a competitive environment. Florida's competitive. Miami's competitive environment. Family law is competitive field. What do you think you do to stand out among your clients to be able to attract the kind of clients that you want to attract in your business?
Vanessa:We really try to make sure that we emphasize to our clients our team and the ability that we have that I do find that so many family law firms here are really a solo, maybe a solo in a paralegal, maybe another staffer. And that can really help to hold you sort of hostage to that attorney if something happens, if they get sick, God forbid, heart attack, stroke, something big. Now potentially you're either waiting or even small things like your attorney's on vacation. We really work hard to work in a team environment for our clients. Every client has a main attorney.
Vanessa:Our attorneys work in pods, so there's also another attorney that always knows kind of what's happening with the case so that that way when one attorney takes a vacation and their clients call, well, the second attorney knows what's going on and can handle that call. So you don't get stuck sort of like, we are doing that vacation. You're gonna have to wait a week until they come back. We also have paralegals in that team, and our paralegals are constantly connecting and communicating with our clients. So that also allows for a lot of the work, especially discovering heavy work to be done by a paralegal and billed at a paralegal's rate instead of being billed out of an attorney rate.
Vanessa:We've got staff that we don't bill for, but that's doing things that other firms bill for, like scheduling and things of that nature. So we we really try to make sure that we balance kinda like our our non billable team and our billable team to be able to provide that that wraparound service to our clients so that they feel like they're being taken care of at all times.
Davina:Right. You when you sort of let go of some of the day to day responsibilities of working in the business, you shifted your focus to the marketing and visibility aspect. Tell me some of the things that you've done to make the firm more visible to prospective clients and referrers.
Vanessa:We do so much. We are That's what I would hear about. We are on all the social media channels. You know, we're on Facebook, which is my my home. We're on Instagram.
Vanessa:We're on TikTok. We're you know, I we have stuff on YouTube. We really do a lot to try to answer those common questions. You know, our our social media tends to have a lot of, like, small videos that kind of talk about the things that we hear about either in consultations or where people will comment on some of the videos and be like, but what about, you know, ABC? We will take those, and and we'll make videos that talk about some of those issues.
Vanessa:So we really try to make sure that we are educating anybody, not just our clients, but anybody about some of the different issues that they should consider, you know, specifically in in their family law cases in Miami. And sometimes just like in in a general sense, like, should you think about when you're hiring an attorney? What should you do if you're really stressed out because you're in family court? I made a a super fun video with my cat, my kid's cat, love my cat. You know, in our last video recording session that talked about sort of being able to the stress relief and, you know, and and kind of turning to your your family, your friends, and your pets about it.
Vanessa:So we really try to make sure that we educate any of our potential clients and and put that out there. So now when you are on social media, if you start looking for some of those questions, some of that information, you're able to find it in some of the materials that we're putting out. Otherwise, branding wise, my husband is my COO, he's not an attorney. He's an engineer by trade. He's the best addition to our staff.
Vanessa:Everybody should hire somebody to be a COO, maybe not their spouse. That doesn't work for everybody, but definitely having that executive level person who's able to take those decisions off your plate. It's kind of like how I told you about bringing in those new employees. I didn't realize how much was on my plate. So he came and took off, and I'm like, oh, wow.
Vanessa:You have a lot of free time fuel flight. I think a
Davina:lot of people don't know what a COO does. Like, they don't they think to yourselves, well, I don't really spend a lot of time on operations. I mean and until they hire someone who is a COO, and then they start to see things happening. What was that experience like? What did you discover that he was taking over that you had sort of been holding on to?
Vanessa:Oh my goodness. He's taking over everything. It's a lading. I'm still in charge of the legal team. So I manage, you know, our our legal team, the the fixed attorney, then four paralegals, and he manages everybody else.
Vanessa:So that's gonna be our in office support team, office manager, file clerk, and our virtual team, which is intake, receptionist. So, you know, we He's been able to bring a very operational heavy mentality to our firm, which is incredible because he corporate he was brought in corporate for twenty years as an engineer in a few different roles from quality to innovation to project leadership. He was able to bring a lot of that the processes of, you know, thinking through projects and and coming up with policies and procedures and and just really getting us dialed into our our KPIs, our key performance indicators. I would set things, and then I'd be like, I gotta check on that. I'm not sure how to check on that.
Vanessa:I I gotta keep up with that. I gotta
Davina:By right. So data data is not you. Having somebody with that brain, that type of brain that is different from your brain in that helps you to think of things that you're not even thinking about. Exactly. Exactly.
Davina:I'd love to say,
Vanessa:you don't know what you don't know. And he was able to sort of think through in a much more analytical way, in an engineering way, you know, of of through our problems and figure out a lot of different initiatives that I real that I feel have really helped our firm to to perform at the level that we're performing from regular KPI meetings. And by regular, I mean, weekly KPI meetings where, you know, his team leaders are bringing him the data and, hey. I'm noticing there's there's an issue here. What are we gonna do about this?
Vanessa:And, you know, and being able to before he came on, I I collected a lot of data. I never did much with this data. So he brought in not just the collection, but collecting the right data, using that data to then be able to make good decisions and be able to, you know, keep keep the team moving in a in a very positive way because they are sort of being held accountable so they know exactly what they need to do. They need they know exactly what they can expect, but also being able to, you know, to to have somebody notice when they're doing good things and bad things. Right.
Vanessa:Great things he's he's brought is is a very engineering thing. It's called a Kappa, and it's corrective and preventive action. Most law firms, whenever there's a mistake, whenever something happens, it's kind of like, you know, Kappa, it's a fair and, you know, there's payoff and, you know but nobody ever sits down and goes, okay. Where did the process break down and how do we prevent the process from So breaking it tends to be sort of like, you forgot something. I promise I will forget again.
Vanessa:Okay, Diane. I don't know how to keep you accountable to that. But when you sit down with the problem and you figure out, okay. So if we're not looking to blame somebody for this problem, we're looking to determine what are the corrective but also the preventive action. So, you know, maybe this was a smart problem, but how do we prevent this from happening in the future so that it doesn't become a recurring problem, so it doesn't become a big problem?
Davina:I love that. And I wanna talk about the c suite before we wrap up. I know we're about to run out of time, but I wanna talk a little bit about the c suite because I do think there are some people who are on their journey who are getting introduced to C Suite long before they're ready for C Suite. At what point? Like, how big was your firm before you started saying, need a chief somebody, a chief financial officer, chief marketing officer, a chief operations.
Davina:You know, like, I there there is a time and place for a c suite at but there's also a time when it's too premature. At what point for you, were you in the firm? How many attorneys did you have working for you? Kind of where were you financially before you started saying, really am at that point where I can start developing a C suite?
Vanessa:So to be honest with you, I've had, you know, sort of like fractional C suite services for a long time. And I know that you hired somebody on, you know, on your podcast, something like that, that was talking about that fractional CFO services. And and I find that that really helped us to, you know, to really be able to push forward. Because again, there's so much that I don't know. There's so much that I've never learned.
Vanessa:There's so much that I wouldn't know what to look for or what the right questions are to ask. So I think definitely, I think I started with fractional C suite services when we were at around maybe 400 to $500,000 and that was about eight years ago, give or take. And that really helped me to sort of start understanding what to look for, what are some of the indicators and some of the things that I need to be doing or putting into place or anything like that. And, you know, I Julian came on as our COO a little bit over two years ago. He's really our only full time c suite.
Vanessa:We have sort of still have factional services, but we're now looking for a head of marketing. We're now, you know, looking for more robust CFO services than, you know, than the fractional services that we've received. So you know? But we're now you know, our goal this year is to be a $3,800,000 firm. So, you know, it's definitely a big change from, you know, half 1,000,000 to almost 4,000,000.
Vanessa:And and now is when I'm really and and I really haven't needed it because Julian has been such an amazing renaissance person being able to manage marketing and operation than, you know, in a lot of the different organizational and operational rules in our firm. But he's also very inexpensive because we just kinda take the profit off. You know? And if I had to pay for a legitimate COO in that spot, I I would've felt, you know, like a little bit more. You know, I definitely would've been taking less profits home.
Vanessa:So, you know yeah. But it's definitely something that once you're a 7 figure firm, you really need to start considering bringing those c suite services in house and and bringing those services, you know, full time.
Davina:Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that because I think there's I I I think for a lot of people like, I certainly noticed this in conversations I have with my clients is you can be hearing things and think, oh my god. Do I need that? And you're not anywhere near there's a lot of work that has to be done before you get to where you need a thing.
Davina:Right? And I think that can be confusing for people. So I'm glad that you really were open and shared that with me because I think a lot of people need to hear that. Like, you know, and, of course, the dream to hire your spouse and have them working for you and it working out well and there could you know, they're great fit to work together, all that thing. I think a lot of people have that dream.
Davina:So I love hearing your story about that. I my spouse works with me in my business, and it's wonderful. He brings that we think very differently. And it can be a challenge sometimes in communicating because I think so differently, But he brings something that I don't, that I can't. You know?
Davina:So I think that's that's wonderful to hear that. Anything else you wanna share to for our audience of women law firm owners? Any advice that you would leave them with before we wrap up?
Vanessa:I love to tell people that, especially women and especially women that are, you know, perhaps from my generation, that, you know, that the the elusive work life balance that we heard as kids that, you know, that that you could do it all. Is that true? You can, but you can't do it all at the same time. And that caveat, it's like the the little asterisk. You ever hear that, you know, yes.
Vanessa:You could do it all, but you can't it all at the same time. And I I really encourage women to figure out the phases that they're in. And it might be that you are in a family building phase, and that's what's important to you. And you shouldn't feel guilty for not building your firm at the same time that you're building your family. It might be that you switch to a firm building thing and then you might need more support from your family at home.
Vanessa:You really have to think through your priorities and the things that are important to you and create that life that's able to meet those priorities because you can't just say, well, my health is my priority, but then you are so busy building your firm and being with your family that you can't ever actually make your health a priority. So you really wanna focus on what is it that you're looking for, what is it that's important to you, but then actually build it into your calendar so that it is a time priority, not just a thing that you say. And if you build the time and then you're doing it, and you're like, yeah. I don't think that this should be my priority. There's only you're the captain of this ship.
Vanessa:You just That would've hurt You a get to pet. Girl. Yeah. I get to pet.
Davina:I do I I love the you know, you can you can have it all, but you can't do it all. And I I think to me, that's the huge. You can have it all, and it we're talking over a lifetime and seasons. I mean, that, I think is what is comes out of your story too is how seasonal it's been. Like, you had a time when you were a young lawyer and and you you did you did something.
Davina:You know? You worked you worked for other people and you learned. You had a time when you took time off to be a mother and you tried a different venture. And then you've now you're in this time where you've been building this business. And I imagine in that time you've been building this business, you've changed and evolved so much that you're not the same person you were when you started, which is the exciting thing to me.
Davina:Yeah. I think about owning your own law firm is that you I tell people, if I gave you the keys to a million dollar law firm when I first met you, you would probably sit in the corner in the fetal position and cry because you'd have no idea where to start because we evolve into people who can run million dollar businesses. That's part of the journey is part of the gift. Right?
Vanessa:Yep. A 100%. Yeah.
Davina:Yeah. So I appreciate you being here, Vanessa. I've really enjoyed our conversation today. Tell us how can we connect with you if we wanna follow you on social. We wanna connect with you.
Davina:Where can we find you?
Vanessa:So the firm is the Vasquez de Lawyer Law Group, and we are on Instagram as Vasquez de Lawyer Law Group, Facebook also. But you're always, you know, able to connect with me personally when I said Vasquez Esquire in Facebook and Instagram. Facebook is my jam. And if you ever need to reach out, our law firm is at familylawprotection.com.
Davina:Wonderful. Thank you so much for being here.
Vanessa:I've really enjoyed it. Thanks, Anita.
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