WEBVTT

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Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke. And I'm Pastor Cameron.

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And this is the Uncut Podcast where we have uncut, honest conversations about

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faith, life, and ministry.

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Today we're going to have a maybe a slightly shorter episode than normal,

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but we thought it would be worthwhile.

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Kind of a question we got through the text line.

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Somebody texted in and they were asking us kind of our opinion on like their,

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understanding of the B attitudes. I think they pretty much got it right. I think

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they got a very good understanding of the B attitudes but so not we're not necessarily responding to correct or necessarily affirm their understanding,

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But I actually think that like the Beatitudes are one of those passages of scriptures that everybody is familiar with, and we've all probably heard

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sermon series on, and I think one of the ways that they're largely talked about

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is just flat-out wrong. And so I think it's worse like saying, you know what,

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let's take a little bit of time, open passage, and maybe create some clarity

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around a passage that's often misunderstood or mistaught.

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Yeah. So most people are, you might or might not know, the Beatitudes are a section of scripture,

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sayings of Jesus, right?

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Primarily in the Gospel of Matthew, Matthew chapter five.

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And Matthew, his Gospel has several different like chunks of teaching that Jesus.

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Like, does. And Matthew's Gospel is generally considered to be the most Jewish of the Gospels

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in terms of its reliance on Old Testament referencing. It's the importance for Matthew

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as the writer of the gospel to communicate Jesus both as the prophetic fulfillment of the promise from Messiah through David's line as well as to

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begin to establish not to begin to but to firmly establish Jesus as an authoritative teacher and interpreter of the will and heart of God and so several

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different discourses within the gospel and this first section in Matthew chapter 5 through basically the end of chapter 7 are kind of what we call the

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first discourse of Jesus' teaching, better known as the Sermon on the Mount.

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Right, which contains like just generally some of the most familiar your teachings of Jesus generally, just like at large, like these would be,

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passages that people who've not read the Bible in a very long time would still be

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like, oh yeah, like I've heard that or something like that. Right, right. And so when you

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approach it, you see that they're seemingly couched, underbracketed on both

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sides with this allusion to Jesus kind of being the new Moses. Yes. You know, he

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He goes up on the mountain top or the mountain side, I think, in Matthew 5, verse 1,

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now when he saw the crowds, he went up on a mountain side and sat down.

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His disciples came to him and he began to teach them. And then at the end of that discourse, at the end, when Jesus had finished saying these

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things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching because he taught as one who had authority

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and not as their teachers of the law.

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And when he came down the mountainside, large crowds followed him.

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And so there's this going up the mountain, similar to how Moses did to receive the law, right?

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Coming down from the mountain, how Moses brought the Word of God down in the form of the law.

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So Matthew's maybe attempt here to, um, to...

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Portray Jesus as the new Moses, which is appropriate. I think it's more appropriate to say that Moses is the old Jesus.

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Don't think too hard about that. Yeah.

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But no, like, you're hitting a really important thing that I think is worth mentioning,

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especially since you brought it up, is that the Old Testament serves to point forward to the coming

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the fulfillment of Christ, how Christ is a more full, complete type of Moses.

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My point is that, what is the place of reference?

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Is Moses the place of reference for how Jesus should be? Or is Jesus, you know, pre-incarnate Jesus, who Moses is seeking to be?

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That's my point.

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Yes, even if he's unaware of it.

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So, yeah.

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Okay, and so then the Beatitudes exist there right at the beginning.

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It's kind of the prologue to the big section of teaching.

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And they are the blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

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Blessed are those who mourn, for there you will be comforted.

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Blessed are the meek, for they won't hear of the earth. Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,

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for they will be filled.

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Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

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Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.

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Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,

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for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

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Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil things against you

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because of you. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven,

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for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

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So, what is maybe the classic way that these are used, or interpreted, or understood, or applied?

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And then what is maybe an alternative or appropriate view to them?

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Well, like the classical view, and I know, I've heard.

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I'm sure I've heard sermons on this. I've definitely read books and study guides and stuff on that have like taught this.

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Um but the kind of the most popular popular view of it is like well all of us want to know how to live a blessed life Cameron.

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Right. Right. All of us want to be the blessed of Christ. Right.

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And Christ right here is telling us what you must do or what type of person you must be in order to live that blessed life.

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So therefore, and then it's usually broken up into like weeks or chapters or studies

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of like saying, all right, blessed are the poor in spirit, Cameron, how must we become poor in spirit?

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How do we pursue poverty of spirit? Blessed are those who mourn.

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You know, we really just need to mourn more. Like that is something that we really ought, like if we really want Christ to bless us,

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we ought to like pursue mourning, right? Blessed are the meek, right?

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And particularly those first three, you know, as you kind of go down, some of those become,

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a little bit easier to see or to argue as virtues. How do we put ourselves in a place of being persecuted?

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Yeah. That one's lost its virtue in our modern day, but essentially we interpret the passage as

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a list of virtues to be strived for in order to achieve the blessed life.

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That's the way I would say probably 90% of study material and popular material interacting

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with it talks about it.

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But if we understand the context of Jesus' ministry and the kingdom that he sought to

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bring and the people that he sought to include in the kingdom, and we look at it through

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the lens of the disenfranchised and those who were typically ostracized from community

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or not ostracized from community, then...

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That it maybe makes us have a little bit different approach to understanding?

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Yeah. I think one key thing, or at least an indicator of either a really difficult passage

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to translate or a poor, or not translate, a really difficult passage to interpret,

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or a passage that you're not interpreting very well, is when you have to work really hard to

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to explain away your immediate gut reaction to the text.

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Like sometimes our gut reactions are like wrong, but like all that study material,

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like usually ends up being like, well now that doesn't seem very like,

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you know, like particularly when it comes to like porn spirit or mourning,

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and you're like, well that might seem really, really counterintuitive,

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but let me just give you a whole bunch of reasons that have nothing to do with anything

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I can particularly point out in this passage of why mourning is a Christian virtue.

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Like you end up having to do, like the chapter, like on a book like this,

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would you start out, I can almost like read it or see it in front of me is like,

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well now at first glance, you might think, why would we wanna be poor in spirit?

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Why would we wanna mourn?

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But let me explain to you how this counterintuitive like thing you would never actually want to be,

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is actually a thing that Christ is telling you to strive.

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And then they kind of proof text a bunch of verses to kind of like argue it into a bit of a virtue.

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Yes.

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So that's, you know, not every time is like, I don't know.

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When our understanding of a passage It has very little of the original passage in it for its understanding,

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Or maybe or maybe over complicating it or going in a wrong direction Sometimes not sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, so how would you?

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How would you begin to say or how would you begin to describe or explain?

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Both the heart of what Jesus is communicating here and.

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It's like,

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Maybe it's application for us, but maybe not Yeah

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Well like first is like to kind of take the gut reaction. I think we pointed out like oh.

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Who wants to be persecuted? Yeah, who wants to mourn who wants to be poor in spirit?

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Nobody wants to be those things right, I I don't want to be those things.

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No. And so I think taking that as a starting point is actually a really good place to start.

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Just like you were saying, Christ was trying to talk to disenfranchised, those who were on the

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outside of things. And he's saying, particularly in his context, Matthew in particular has a lot

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to say about what true faith looks like. I'm using my own words to describe his theme here,

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but he talks about the religion or the faith of the Pharisees and the Sadducees and the religious

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leaders, and he is holding up and trying to hold up the Old Testament and holding up Jesus and

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saying, which of these is more faithful to the faith that God has called us to in the Old

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Testament in some way. And Christ, his argument is Christ is, right? Christ is giving this

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interpretation of the Old Testament up on the mount. And Christ's big thing is saying, like.

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Look, the way that you've sought to apply the law of God has been on a surface level.

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Let me perhaps bring it to a heart level. Maybe, perhaps, let me.

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Turn things upside down and show that the most religious or the most faithful person who's

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following God is not the person who's got their life kind of together in this very religious sense.

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It's not the Pharisee who tithes out of their spice cabinet. It's the person like,

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I would rather—or God is more happy or more concerned with the person who's persecuted for

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for my sake, with the person who is mourning.

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God is close to the brokenhearted and to the weak, a bruised reed he will not break.

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Like he's going into all of those places, rather than saying like,

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oh, you just need to keep the law outwardly more.

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I think that leads us to a closer way. How would you kind of begin to kind of summarize that?

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I would say it's really similar to that.

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Rather than it being a thing, these different beatitudes, something that we actively pursue.

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Not that you don't pursue them or that you avoid them. But that I think what it is,

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is it's like a opening volley,

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into the Jewish community at the time.

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About who is and who is not blessed according to God. Yeah.

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Right, so like if the theme of Jesus, one of the themes of Jesus' ministry is,

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giving access to the kingdom of God through faith in him faith in Him, too.

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The ones in which the worldly systems seem to exclude.

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And you see that in, begin to see that even in the beginning of the genealogy of Jesus,

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the inclusion of women in Jesus' genealogy in Matthew,

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non-Jewish women, one of which was a prostitute, right?

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You begin to see like, why would Jesus want to associate himself

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with a non-Jewish prostitute woman,

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pretty much the most excluded class of people in the context that Jesus was actually living in,

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if not to say that Jesus was the cornerstone.

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Of a new, more perfect kingdom that represents the actual heart of God

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apart from the man-made structures that seek to exclude those who are poor in spirit,

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or brokenhearted or meek or suffering persecution,

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because God's definitely not with those people.

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If you're poor in spirit, God, that's an example of someone who is obviously disobedient to God

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and he's punishing them and they're on the outskirts of good, faithful, religious life.

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When Jesus is coming around the back end, He was like, no, like blessed are those people as well.

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Blessed are those who the world says are on the outskirts of religious life.

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So yeah, he's turning to the crowd. And in a sense, he is saying.

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Do you happen to be one of these things? Because if you are, my kingdom has a place for you. And

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inside of that kingdom, you will be blessed. I think one of the reason one of the things that

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like, maybe so like, when the original readers were reading this, they would have been like,

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Like, oh, why?

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That's so, like, I would never ever classify someone who is poor in spirit.

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It would have been so jarring to hear somebody to say that, blessed or merciful, right?

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The fact that we're kind of like, well, no, merciful is like a thing, like, is actually a testament

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to how much the teachings of Christ and the gospel have impacted virtues.

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Like, what we consider to be a virtue or to be a thing to be strived after now,

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the fact that we're even like, why would being merciful ever be a virtue?

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It would be more of a virtue to be just, right? Because you want to be trampled over,

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like you want to get what's yours.

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So the fact that we even can conceive of being merciful as a virtue,

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is a testament to Christ's impact on our thinking.

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Or even what the, like, I was thinking of, it's not even as benign as like,

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oh, the meek, they'll be included in the kingdom too.

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It's that, it's almost like the, the Jesus is over-correcting on a cultural assumption,

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by saying, not only are the weak included in the kingdom, they'll inherit the earth.

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You know, it's not just the, okay, yeah, you can come and join us.

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Right. Cause you don't like the meek, the meek is not the person who's out there and like making

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the best business deals and like getting what's theirs. They're just like, Oh yeah.

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Yeah. They don't have the lion energy.

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Right. Yeah. They're just kind of, you know, they're very passive. But Jesus is saying,

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despite the fact that they're being passive, they will inherit earth.

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Yes. Or like, and this is not atypical of the ministry of Jesus. Just the first example is,

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when the disciples try and stop the children from coming to Jesus,

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the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these, he says, let them come.

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Right. So it's not just that, oh, no, they get to take part or they get to be in it, but it's like

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there is something about the disenfranchised or the way in which the world disenfranchises people

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and the way in which God includes them and blesses them.

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Yeah. And I think that understanding of the passage, it doesn't preclude you from perhaps

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saying, okay, maybe I do need to strive to be more merciful and maybe I need to grow in my meekness

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and I need to learn what it means to mourn with those who are mourning." Like, it doesn't preclude

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you from potentially pursuing those virtues in your life, but it makes more sense of the passage.

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To kind of take the pressure off of saying, this is a list of things that Jesus says that you must

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become or become like, to say, well, Jesus is saying is that, do you happen to find yourself

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in a place of disenfranchisement, of being an outsider, of being maybe not what the world would

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say is best, or beautiful, or good, or wise? Well, good for you because I have a place for you

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in my kingdom. And I think, and that relieves some of the awkward tension that I think often

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gets put on that passage of saying, well, we got to find out why we must become that,

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or something like that.

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Right, yeah, which is, if you take that, if you take that stance or that approach,

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you'll find that it's really difficult to make sense of it.

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Yes, you end up kind of contorting it a little bit, doing some gymnastics,

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pretzel stuff. Like, well, it must mean that I have to do this.

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Well, it because what does it mean like do I must I seek out mourning?

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I don't think that's actually what Christ is saying, but blessed when you do mourn.

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Yeah. Yeah. You're not in a disadvantageous position when you mourn. Right. Yeah.

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You know, like you will receive comfort.

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Absolutely. And I think that honors the passage a little bit better.

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Yeah. I think so too.

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There's one author, I think it's Dallas Willard. Dallas Willard.

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Spends a significant amount of time on this passage and particularly this misunderstanding

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of the passage in Divine Conspiracy. And he goes through and he makes a list of like,

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what would be the modern day, like, blessed are the, do you have any that like, kind of come to

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your mind? I mean, I've read it. I don't. I mean, like, not one specifically from him, like, but

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but like what would you kind of like place in there?

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Like blessed are the,

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like. Mentally ill. Mentally ill. Mm-hmm. Blessed are the people who don't have it all together. Mm-hmm.

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Yeah. Blessed are the.

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Yeah, I don't know. Like the one, like plus or the lonely.

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A lot of lonely people. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

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So. But that I think gives a better flavor for where the, at least we think the passage.

00:22:46.304 --> 00:22:50.824
Right, I would never want to go back and be like, okay, let me reword Jesus things here

00:22:50.824 --> 00:22:52.664
and like make my own list of beatitudes.

00:22:52.664 --> 00:22:58.064
I'm not trying to say like our list is equivalent to Christ's list or anything like that.

00:22:58.064 --> 00:23:05.284
The thrust of the argument remains the same if you take the heart of what Jesus is saying

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and you contextualize it today.

00:23:07.969 --> 00:23:15.153
Right. So if we take the passage to mean, blessed are those who you would not think are blessed

00:23:15.288 --> 00:23:18.864
or belong to the kingdom. The depressed or the anxious or the addicted or...

00:23:18.864 --> 00:23:20.878
Yes, blessed or addicted. I like it.

00:23:22.571 --> 00:23:29.467
Those that it we could perhaps make an application point Yes And say well

00:23:29.899 --> 00:23:35.185
Then might there also be ways in which Christ wants to bless you if you are mentally ill

00:23:35.465 --> 00:23:40.585
If you were struggling with addiction if your family is broken if you do not have it all together,

00:23:41.185 --> 00:23:44.203
There is blessing for you in the kingdom. Yep.

00:23:46.103 --> 00:23:54.605
You know blessed or not the go-getters You know, like, however, we want to kind of talk about that.

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But I think that gives a better picture of the upside down kingdom that Christ is presenting.

00:24:01.677 --> 00:24:08.445
And that acts as the sort of the attention getter, but kind of the preamble to them him

00:24:08.445 --> 00:24:16.278
kind of re-explaining and expanding upon like the heart and the intention behind the law that Moses gave.

00:24:16.485 --> 00:24:23.485
Yeah. So that's our quick fly bio, the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount, you know,

00:24:24.993 --> 00:24:30.925
there've been entire books as thick as the Bible written on those things. So we're not going to

00:24:30.925 --> 00:24:37.182
cover it all in a 30 minute podcast, but no, I hope maybe that cleared up a little bit of

00:24:37.326 --> 00:24:42.700
any questions for you, or at least give me a different perspective through which to read the

00:24:42.871 --> 00:24:48.925
Sermon on the Mount and the Beatitudes. And I encourage you to continue to explore.

00:24:50.811 --> 00:24:57.085
God's Word and its context, of course. And all that came just from a question that we received

00:24:57.085 --> 00:25:02.925
in the text line. So if you have any questions or anything, any topics that you'd like us to

00:25:02.925 --> 00:25:05.805
to, you know, to try and tackle here.

00:25:05.805 --> 00:25:15.081
You can text us at 716-201-0507, and we will do our best to address those.

00:25:15.965 --> 00:25:21.716
As always, thanks for listening and watching. You can like it, rate it, subscribe, share.

00:25:22.205 --> 00:25:24.365
Do all the things. All the things.

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Music.