1 00:00:01,410 --> 00:00:03,730 Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:05,070 I'm your host, Jeff Yan. 3 00:00:05,590 --> 00:00:09,299 In this episode, you will hear part two of my conversation with Kate Sonka, 4 00:00:09,690 --> 00:00:11,910 Executive Director of Teach Access. 5 00:00:12,660 --> 00:00:16,379 More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's 6 00:00:16,419 --> 00:00:18,619 Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. 7 00:00:18,699 --> 00:00:21,900 Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on 8 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:23,669 YouTube or your favorite podcast app. 9 00:00:24,650 --> 00:00:25,730 Let me ask you something. 10 00:00:25,740 --> 00:00:28,670 Now, I, I know that we have talked about this already. 11 00:00:28,670 --> 00:00:32,890 You had talked about, um, public universities as spaces, 12 00:00:33,550 --> 00:00:35,500 um, as public spaces, etc. 13 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:40,470 Now you actually also have been involved in higher education for a number of years. 14 00:00:40,639 --> 00:00:41,150 That's true. 15 00:00:41,209 --> 00:00:42,030 That is correct. 16 00:00:42,535 --> 00:00:47,165 Um, obviously you, you, you know, um, I know, you know, as both, you know, 17 00:00:47,185 --> 00:00:52,575 a student, but then also, um, you know, had, uh, you had the, I believe 18 00:00:52,575 --> 00:00:56,545 that you are the Assistant Director of Inclusion and Academic Technology. 19 00:00:56,974 --> 00:00:57,384 That's right. 20 00:00:57,505 --> 00:00:57,775 Yep. 21 00:00:58,224 --> 00:00:58,584 Yeah. 22 00:00:58,594 --> 00:01:01,055 And this is at Michigan State University, is that right? 23 00:01:01,065 --> 00:01:01,335 Yep. 24 00:01:01,795 --> 00:01:02,185 Yeah. 25 00:01:02,964 --> 00:01:08,715 And prior to that, you were at, um, DePaul University, which is where, 26 00:01:08,755 --> 00:01:13,675 so this is, I think one of those funny, um, just like universe moments. 27 00:01:13,675 --> 00:01:16,535 I don't know what to call it, where, so there was a time when I 28 00:01:16,535 --> 00:01:19,695 was working on my master's degree at DePaul University in Chicago. 29 00:01:20,134 --> 00:01:23,934 Um, I was working in the academic tech office or educational technology office 30 00:01:23,964 --> 00:01:25,804 there within the college of education. 31 00:01:26,535 --> 00:01:32,570 And at that time, there were several Uh, faculty and other, um, others outside 32 00:01:32,630 --> 00:01:35,710 in the College of Ed and outside of the College of Ed at DePaul who were 33 00:01:35,710 --> 00:01:41,139 using Digication, um, and who were introducing it in their courses, um, 34 00:01:41,180 --> 00:01:46,150 and right as I was leaving, um, there was some use of it for, um, some of 35 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,970 the Uh, teacher certification and I've, the, it has escaped me now exactly 36 00:01:50,970 --> 00:01:55,070 what it was, but so I was working with Digication both as a student, 37 00:01:55,789 --> 00:01:58,829 submitting materials and using it. 38 00:01:58,829 --> 00:02:01,840 I mean, this was like more than a decade ago. 39 00:02:02,199 --> 00:02:05,779 And then when I graduated and I was working in the EdTech office 40 00:02:05,780 --> 00:02:08,380 there, um, supporting faculty. 41 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:10,400 and students who are using Digication. 42 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,250 And so I, I mean at the time I'm like, this is a great tool, I love this. 43 00:02:14,750 --> 00:02:19,619 Um, and then went to MSU, Michigan State University, and there were a few people on 44 00:02:19,619 --> 00:02:23,989 campus using Digication, um, and then it just, it wasn't something that I spent too 45 00:02:23,989 --> 00:02:29,674 much time with, but, uh, then it was very, Very funny, I guess is the word, or just 46 00:02:29,734 --> 00:02:34,625 one of those moments, um, because it was Mark Thompson who we mentioned earlier, 47 00:02:34,995 --> 00:02:38,875 um, I think who sent an email and just said, Hey, you two should know each other. 48 00:02:38,875 --> 00:02:40,964 And I just, I was like, this is so funny. 49 00:02:41,205 --> 00:02:42,405 I already know who Jeff is. 50 00:02:42,445 --> 00:02:43,824 I know what Digication is. 51 00:02:44,124 --> 00:02:45,084 I've worked with it. 52 00:02:45,595 --> 00:02:50,285 Uh, and so, yeah, it's, uh, been a great, a great tool. 53 00:02:50,305 --> 00:02:54,680 I've, I've really loved watching it grow too, kind of as a, an insider 54 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:59,540 at first, but now, you know, being a partner, of course, but, um, yeah, so 55 00:02:59,540 --> 00:03:02,869 it's just, it's a funny, the world is funny, you know, all these things happen. 56 00:03:02,890 --> 00:03:07,940 I love these, um, these many overlapping circles that we have. 57 00:03:08,169 --> 00:03:08,459 Yes. 58 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,450 And I, I think that there is, I don't know, for me, 59 00:03:12,450 --> 00:03:13,660 sometimes the world has a f... 60 00:03:14,614 --> 00:03:23,224 humorous way of, of, of putting, um, people with similar interests, you know, 61 00:03:23,284 --> 00:03:30,214 together, it's almost like, um, you know, some, some invisible rules and laws 62 00:03:30,214 --> 00:03:35,535 and forces that said, right, you guys, uh, you know, interested in this thing. 63 00:03:35,545 --> 00:03:38,274 And it's almost like people were interested in music or sports or 64 00:03:38,274 --> 00:03:42,614 arts or whatever, you know, and it's like you find each other, right? 65 00:03:43,124 --> 00:03:49,805 So, um, I think that, Unfortunately, the accessibility circle seems 66 00:03:50,315 --> 00:03:53,955 it's growing, of course, but it's small enough that we were able to, 67 00:03:53,955 --> 00:03:55,405 you know, have all these overlaps. 68 00:03:55,915 --> 00:03:58,885 Uh, but that's also, also very fortunate because I got to see all 69 00:03:58,895 --> 00:04:02,385 of your good work over the years and it's pretty, pretty amazing. 70 00:04:02,784 --> 00:04:07,854 Um, and I, I love, I still remember, you know, our very first. 71 00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:11,480 No, I guess it's not our first meeting, but, well, our... 72 00:04:11,610 --> 00:04:16,550 Our first meeting with you being the executive director of Teach Access and 73 00:04:16,579 --> 00:04:18,359 you're like, you know, we know each other. 74 00:04:19,629 --> 00:04:24,070 I mean, to be fair, Jeff, to be fair, I wasn't, I think we were probably in 75 00:04:24,079 --> 00:04:28,320 maybe one or two meetings where we, you know, but it was a group of people and 76 00:04:28,630 --> 00:04:32,190 there were, um, some colleagues, some great colleagues of mine who are, who are 77 00:04:32,190 --> 00:04:35,949 still working at DePaul, wonderful people who were working with you more often. 78 00:04:35,970 --> 00:04:36,460 So, yeah. 79 00:04:36,475 --> 00:04:39,185 In no way did I expect that you would remem... 80 00:04:39,215 --> 00:04:42,405 you would have remembered me specifically, but you know, it was sort of those group 81 00:04:42,415 --> 00:04:44,465 meeting situations, but it was, yeah. 82 00:04:44,845 --> 00:04:45,225 It was funny. 83 00:04:45,435 --> 00:04:46,455 Oh, it's really fantastic. 84 00:04:46,625 --> 00:04:53,095 And I will say that, you know, our, our own journey, um, I'd imagine that 85 00:04:53,105 --> 00:04:57,384 when we were working, when you were at DePaul, which would have been, 86 00:04:58,185 --> 00:05:01,944 you know, it was like 2009 to 2014. 87 00:05:02,665 --> 00:05:07,265 So it's early enough that, um, whatever accessibility work that 88 00:05:07,265 --> 00:05:09,845 we did back then was minimal. 89 00:05:10,575 --> 00:05:15,975 Like we just were not aware or are, I mean, look, people are sort of aware, 90 00:05:15,975 --> 00:05:19,285 but like, you know, we, we just didn't have to know what all the, don't know 91 00:05:19,294 --> 00:05:24,165 how, um, the community wasn't really matured enough, we couldn't agree on 92 00:05:24,205 --> 00:05:27,875 some, you know, on things and there was a lot, I still remember there were 93 00:05:27,895 --> 00:05:30,834 a lot of, um, sort of things like. 94 00:05:31,385 --> 00:05:35,775 It's definitely a nice to have because by the time it gets to like implementing 95 00:05:35,775 --> 00:05:37,245 it, everyone does it differently. 96 00:05:37,245 --> 00:05:38,805 And then it doesn't kind of work. 97 00:05:38,805 --> 00:05:44,885 And, and, and, and the, I still remember my first exposure to, 98 00:05:45,445 --> 00:05:47,575 um, it was, um, Screen Reader. 99 00:05:47,584 --> 00:05:50,565 So for people who don't know what screen reader is, right, A Screen Reader is, 100 00:05:51,145 --> 00:05:55,480 um, usually an Assistive technology that exists on your, you know, as a 101 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,240 piece of software or in your operating system, on your phone, on your computer, 102 00:06:00,570 --> 00:06:05,840 where it tries to read out, you know, what's on the screen for someone who 103 00:06:05,849 --> 00:06:07,659 might be visually impaired, right? 104 00:06:08,140 --> 00:06:13,320 And I still remember at the time, um, the, Only screen reader or the only 105 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,410 like usable screen reader was JAWS. 106 00:06:16,260 --> 00:06:23,279 And that, um, I still remember that it ran on windows and that, uh, windows 107 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:29,829 only, and that it's for people's general experience is that every, uh, 108 00:06:30,349 --> 00:06:31,699 I don't know, every 10-15 minutes. 109 00:06:31,719 --> 00:06:34,830 They have to restart the operating system because it actually 110 00:06:34,830 --> 00:06:35,909 crashes and doesn't work. 111 00:06:36,330 --> 00:06:39,930 But now we have to remember, this is not JAWS's fault necessarily. 112 00:06:40,140 --> 00:06:41,530 We have to remember back. 113 00:06:41,919 --> 00:06:46,209 Like if we push back many years ago on our computer, hardware isn't there. 114 00:06:46,459 --> 00:06:49,220 Think about like speech to text technology, right? 115 00:06:49,220 --> 00:06:50,640 That theory didn't exist. 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,220 We were not used to the current fidelity of things, right? 117 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,689 So as technology becomes better and better, in fact, many of 118 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:02,509 the big tech companies are the one that pushed it, right? 119 00:07:03,150 --> 00:07:07,417 Like I think Siri and maybe even Alexa created a computer generated 120 00:07:07,417 --> 00:07:10,784 speech experience that we can be like. 121 00:07:11,165 --> 00:07:16,675 I could live with it and now AI actually had made it even like now it's a little 122 00:07:16,675 --> 00:07:18,635 bit, you know, in fact, scary, right? 123 00:07:18,995 --> 00:07:23,615 Um, but, but, but, but it's, it was something that we really could live with. 124 00:07:23,665 --> 00:07:28,884 We can say, yeah, I could listen to this in general and, and, and can see that 125 00:07:28,895 --> 00:07:31,295 that technology can really become matured. 126 00:07:31,555 --> 00:07:35,135 But back in the days it was hard, which is why I think that there's a, this 127 00:07:35,255 --> 00:07:38,115 catch up, you know, sort of period. 128 00:07:38,525 --> 00:07:39,935 Um, I just hope that it doesn't. 129 00:07:40,145 --> 00:07:42,675 Take too long for the catch up to happen, you know? 130 00:07:42,675 --> 00:07:42,945 Yeah. 131 00:07:43,515 --> 00:07:44,165 Yeah, I agree. 132 00:07:44,865 --> 00:07:53,065 Um, so speaking of, um, uh, the, your experience with education, I wanted to 133 00:07:53,134 --> 00:08:00,845 just say how thankful I am because of your Active participation in understanding 134 00:08:00,845 --> 00:08:03,535 the experiences of students and teachers. 135 00:08:03,975 --> 00:08:04,175 Yes. 136 00:08:04,405 --> 00:08:10,254 We were able to really quickly, and you helped us, helped Digication 137 00:08:10,295 --> 00:08:14,085 create a set of guides for students and for faculty members. 138 00:08:15,350 --> 00:08:21,050 It's a self serve, really easy to consume, really quick, just in time, 139 00:08:21,420 --> 00:08:26,369 where we have made the decision to include all the information now into, 140 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,959 um, the most, into our most prominent real estate, you know, in our digital 141 00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:38,360 space, which is everywhere that a student might be creating any kind of work, 142 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:45,550 they will see a button on accessibility and it will include the guide that 143 00:08:45,550 --> 00:08:47,959 we partnered on and created together. 144 00:08:48,150 --> 00:08:49,479 Thank you so much for doing that. 145 00:08:49,479 --> 00:08:50,059 That is just... 146 00:08:50,099 --> 00:08:54,149 Oh my gosh, I need to be thanking you, yeah, yeah. 147 00:08:54,150 --> 00:08:56,539 Thanking you and your whole team for, for doing that. 148 00:08:56,539 --> 00:09:00,040 Because I think what it demonstrates is, you know, I think we've said 149 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,655 the word easy a couple of times, or, um, you know, There are, sure, 150 00:09:05,715 --> 00:09:08,505 there are things about accessibility and digital accessibility that are 151 00:09:08,505 --> 00:09:10,305 not easy, that are very challenging. 152 00:09:10,905 --> 00:09:16,004 But generally speaking, there are a lot of things we can do to make our content 153 00:09:16,004 --> 00:09:20,165 more accessible, including students who are publishing their portfolios, 154 00:09:20,615 --> 00:09:23,855 um, including faculty who are preparing their students to publish their 155 00:09:23,855 --> 00:09:26,915 portfolios that really make a difference. 156 00:09:26,975 --> 00:09:30,015 And, and I also, you know, one of the things we often 157 00:09:30,015 --> 00:09:31,814 say too is start somewhere. 158 00:09:31,964 --> 00:09:32,535 Just get started. 159 00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:36,090 No, you're not going to be an expert tomorrow. 160 00:09:36,260 --> 00:09:37,620 You may never be an expert. 161 00:09:38,020 --> 00:09:42,800 Um, you may never want to be an expert, but, but get started, do something. 162 00:09:42,809 --> 00:09:45,689 And I think, you know, earlier you were mentioning as someone 163 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:49,270 who, you know, hires, is hiring people are looking for that. 164 00:09:49,290 --> 00:09:54,450 I mean, as students are putting their work out there, being able to demonstrate, 165 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:59,120 hey, I know what accessibility is, generally speaking, and I have done a 166 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,400 couple of things to my portfolio to make it more accessible, that indicates a lot. 167 00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:06,040 You know, they're thinking about inclusivity. 168 00:10:06,290 --> 00:10:08,660 They're thinking about the different ways they're presenting their 169 00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:13,449 materials, um, and their artifacts, uh, and, and their work to the world. 170 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,419 Um, there are other pieces around accessibility that also include 171 00:10:17,649 --> 00:10:20,749 or also improve things like Search Engine Optimization, like when we're 172 00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:26,719 talking about Alt Text, so there's a lot that adding accessibility, um, is 173 00:10:26,719 --> 00:10:27,899 good for all of those things, right? 174 00:10:27,909 --> 00:10:30,289 That's sort of that other bucket of stuff. 175 00:10:30,319 --> 00:10:30,929 This is great. 176 00:10:31,665 --> 00:10:35,765 But also more importantly, it's creating something that is accessible 177 00:10:35,775 --> 00:10:37,095 for people with disabilities. 178 00:10:37,115 --> 00:10:42,675 So, you know, the hiring manager who may have a disability or, um, whoever, 179 00:10:42,685 --> 00:10:46,015 whoever, whoever it is that you're trying to reach with your work, you 180 00:10:46,015 --> 00:10:50,514 want to get it out there and you want to share it, make it accessible. 181 00:10:50,575 --> 00:10:56,105 And, and I, so I really am so grateful to all of you at Digication for recognizing 182 00:10:56,105 --> 00:10:58,625 that and, and really building that in. 183 00:10:58,910 --> 00:11:02,649 Because it also kind of helps students understand that it isn't 184 00:11:02,649 --> 00:11:04,579 a whole big, extra big thing. 185 00:11:04,579 --> 00:11:06,189 That's going to take all your time. 186 00:11:06,749 --> 00:11:08,289 Hey, you're getting ready to publish. 187 00:11:08,359 --> 00:11:09,709 Here's the little checklist. 188 00:11:09,939 --> 00:11:12,659 I know that that's probably not what you're exactly calling it, but here 189 00:11:12,819 --> 00:11:14,379 are the steps to get ready to publish. 190 00:11:14,659 --> 00:11:15,400 Did you check this? 191 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,129 Did you check this? 192 00:11:16,129 --> 00:11:16,859 Did you check this? 193 00:11:17,449 --> 00:11:21,819 Accessibility is one in a number of things, which also really speaks to 194 00:11:21,819 --> 00:11:26,685 what we're trying to do, which is really, um, um, You know, ubiquitous 195 00:11:26,685 --> 00:11:30,285 is a big word, but so in trying to think in plain language here, you 196 00:11:30,285 --> 00:11:33,745 know, really make it something that appears alongside everything else. 197 00:11:34,185 --> 00:11:37,795 It becomes a very typical thing that I expect to do when 198 00:11:37,795 --> 00:11:39,165 I'm about to publish my work. 199 00:11:39,414 --> 00:11:40,665 I'm going to check on this thing. 200 00:11:40,845 --> 00:11:41,944 I'm going to check on this thing. 201 00:11:42,285 --> 00:11:43,894 One of them is about accessibility. 202 00:11:43,894 --> 00:11:44,819 One of them is not. 203 00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:48,430 But they're all together because it's all equally important for me to do 204 00:11:48,430 --> 00:11:50,750 these things before I publish my work. 205 00:11:50,780 --> 00:11:55,999 And so, I mean, a big thank you to you all for recognizing that and being able to add 206 00:11:55,999 --> 00:11:58,249 that, um, and put that into the platform. 207 00:11:58,249 --> 00:11:59,560 It's, it's phenomenal. 208 00:11:59,590 --> 00:12:00,200 It's great. 209 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:07,789 Well, I, I wanted to say that Obviously, accessibility itself is, you know, 210 00:12:07,829 --> 00:12:11,839 like, I think we all agree, you and I agree, and many people agree that 211 00:12:12,209 --> 00:12:16,479 it's, it's, it just becomes part of our literacy, becomes part of everyday 212 00:12:16,479 --> 00:12:17,810 life, and we need to honor that. 213 00:12:18,839 --> 00:12:22,359 But I also wanted to say that there is, you know, for those who 214 00:12:22,359 --> 00:12:26,719 are more into, like, you know, listeners who are teachers, who are 215 00:12:26,719 --> 00:12:30,800 faculty members, who are thinking, well, you know, I teach, Biology. 216 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:31,420 I teach whatever. 217 00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:33,410 Like, how does that relate to me? 218 00:12:33,550 --> 00:12:37,350 Aside from, I already know about the, I need to be able to help any of my 219 00:12:37,350 --> 00:12:39,840 students who might have disabilities, etc. 220 00:12:39,890 --> 00:12:43,130 You know, to consume my content and communication, etc. 221 00:12:43,530 --> 00:12:48,699 But I also think there is some deeper pedagogical, um, connections 222 00:12:48,709 --> 00:12:49,960 that I wanted to make here. 223 00:12:50,230 --> 00:12:54,620 So, for example, we have talked a bit about Alt Text today. 224 00:12:55,240 --> 00:13:00,224 Alt Text is, you know, when you put up an image somewhere, you want Someone 225 00:13:00,224 --> 00:13:05,025 who are visual, who's visually impaired, who can still be able to enjoy that, 226 00:13:05,114 --> 00:13:11,224 be able to consume that by you being able to put up oftentimes a small and 227 00:13:11,224 --> 00:13:16,334 concise description or a caption, um, that talks about what it is, right? 228 00:13:16,375 --> 00:13:20,064 That you, you've put up, um, and... 229 00:13:20,934 --> 00:13:28,115 Interestingly, um, I had done some experiment with users in general, right? 230 00:13:29,025 --> 00:13:32,094 And we started talking about, well, what's good Alt Text? 231 00:13:32,094 --> 00:13:32,634 What's not? 232 00:13:32,634 --> 00:13:36,134 And, you know, and people can get, you can get, you can nerd out on 233 00:13:36,134 --> 00:13:37,465 that itself, which is for sure. 234 00:13:39,185 --> 00:13:40,485 Funny sometimes, right? 235 00:13:40,705 --> 00:13:44,355 But it's all in the name of like learning and gaining, gaining experience. 236 00:13:44,695 --> 00:13:46,015 Sometimes you just have to, right? 237 00:13:46,545 --> 00:13:49,705 Are you, you know, are you, are you focusing on a flower in the middle of room 238 00:13:49,715 --> 00:13:51,505 or the fact that you're in a room, right? 239 00:13:51,525 --> 00:13:54,184 So you're, you're, you're trying to figure all that out, you know, 240 00:13:54,224 --> 00:13:57,515 what's important, but that in and of itself is what I'm talking about. 241 00:13:57,515 --> 00:14:02,094 There is some pedagogical value to, if I am trying to express myself, I 242 00:14:02,094 --> 00:14:06,705 put up a page in Digication, or it doesn't matter as a Digication, it's, 243 00:14:06,775 --> 00:14:10,895 it's, you know, you're doing a project, you're trying to put a piece of visual 244 00:14:10,895 --> 00:14:19,194 media to, to help represent yourself or your ideas or the concept, right? 245 00:14:19,195 --> 00:14:23,635 Maybe it's a very poetic, you know, sort of, you know, analogy. 246 00:14:23,655 --> 00:14:27,085 Maybe it's a, just a busy background. 247 00:14:27,095 --> 00:14:28,005 We don't know yet. 248 00:14:28,725 --> 00:14:30,444 When you actually make that. 249 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,980 I find that when you actually make that Alt Text, when you 250 00:14:33,980 --> 00:14:35,590 start to write, well, what is it? 251 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:40,660 It actually helps you both try to figure out, well, sometimes you put 252 00:14:40,660 --> 00:14:43,480 up something, you don't even know why, you just kind of throw it up there, 253 00:14:43,490 --> 00:14:47,230 almost like, you know, some putting some background image together, right? 254 00:14:47,949 --> 00:14:50,750 And just to set the mood, maybe that's what it is. 255 00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:53,060 And that's, you need to acknowledge that and know that. 256 00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:54,720 And then there are times where you go. 257 00:14:55,170 --> 00:14:59,740 Oh, this is really meaningful to me because I'm trying to tell a 258 00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:02,140 story of, I don't know, immigrants. 259 00:15:02,610 --> 00:15:07,049 And this is actually a photo of my grandparents coming to 260 00:15:07,049 --> 00:15:08,839 this country or what have you. 261 00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:13,299 And that meaning can be so powerful. 262 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,770 But if you didn't get to, almost in this case, highly encouraged, if ....., You 263 00:15:18,770 --> 00:15:23,040 know, really like asking you, like, Hey, please put, put in a description here. 264 00:15:23,339 --> 00:15:25,959 Now you, you got to think about it a little bit more. 265 00:15:25,979 --> 00:15:27,770 You start to make a, huh? 266 00:15:27,770 --> 00:15:32,249 You know what, now that I've written that I've even had the experience where I wrote 267 00:15:32,250 --> 00:15:36,050 the description for the first image and I go, I have another one that's like this. 268 00:15:36,090 --> 00:15:37,340 I should add to it. 269 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:37,960 Right. 270 00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:41,090 So there is a direct pedagogical. 271 00:15:42,125 --> 00:15:46,284 Set of innovation that you can do with your students and the nuance, 272 00:15:47,125 --> 00:15:53,244 like experience of having to think deeply about how you are treating your 273 00:15:53,244 --> 00:15:57,765 own content that you are, you know, producing and curating and creating. 274 00:15:58,385 --> 00:16:03,805 Is a, is a, is a wonderful way to think more deeply about, you know, how you 275 00:16:03,805 --> 00:16:07,915 reflect on your own learning and integrate with the different aspects of life. 276 00:16:08,494 --> 00:16:12,674 And I just think that, again, you know, in this case, it's not like only 277 00:16:12,694 --> 00:16:14,094 accessibility is good for business. 278 00:16:14,125 --> 00:16:18,795 This is actually, accessibility is good for learning too, for the individuals 279 00:16:18,805 --> 00:16:23,614 who are just writing up what would have been otherwise a paper, right? 280 00:16:24,060 --> 00:16:24,940 I love this. 281 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,840 I'm in, I'm in agreement with you. 282 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,580 One of the things, so when I was working at Michigan State University, 283 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,580 um, and working in accessibility there, it was around supporting, you 284 00:16:34,580 --> 00:16:36,390 know, this teaching accessibly piece. 285 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,360 So thinking about what do we need to do to create inclusive and accessi..., 286 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,600 accessible, um, classrooms, um, materials, uh, and supporting faculty and doing that. 287 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:50,250 And what you're talking about reminds me sometimes the conversation we would 288 00:16:50,260 --> 00:16:55,185 have around Alt Text, since we're on that topic, you know, Yes, sometimes I was 289 00:16:55,185 --> 00:16:57,025 just throwing on, throwing up an image. 290 00:16:57,675 --> 00:16:58,155 I don't know. 291 00:16:58,185 --> 00:17:04,005 It's just a, it's a good image and there was also a, I'm going to just put this 292 00:17:04,025 --> 00:17:10,425 image up and I'm going, you know, as a, as a instructor, um, I'm going to, um, 293 00:17:10,444 --> 00:17:15,409 assume that, um, When Jeff sees that image, he'll know what I intended with it. 294 00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:19,670 You know, aside from the choosing the image side and the intentionality 295 00:17:19,670 --> 00:17:21,629 behind what am I trying to convey? 296 00:17:22,019 --> 00:17:25,849 It was also, I mean, this came up a lot and, and it really helped inform 297 00:17:26,089 --> 00:17:30,559 my thinking around accessibility as well as a pedagogical move, um, was, 298 00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:35,899 okay, well, I put up this, this image and I assume, or my expectation is 299 00:17:35,899 --> 00:17:38,679 that all my students will see it on my slide deck and they'll know that 300 00:17:38,679 --> 00:17:41,719 that's what I mean, or that that's what they should get out of this image. 301 00:17:42,405 --> 00:17:44,385 Or graph or whatever. 302 00:17:44,865 --> 00:17:49,794 Um, but as it turns out, Jeff is in my classroom and he looks at the image and he 303 00:17:49,794 --> 00:17:54,155 thinks about something else because of his Lived Experience or, you know, where he's 304 00:17:54,324 --> 00:17:58,175 just, whatever it is, he's in a different, he's having a different sort of day. 305 00:17:58,175 --> 00:17:59,774 And so he sees it and he thinks something. 306 00:17:59,774 --> 00:17:59,994 Right. 307 00:18:00,195 --> 00:18:05,435 So then what's happened is that I let an image do a lot of work and maybe I 308 00:18:05,435 --> 00:18:09,625 didn't spend time describing that image in class, or maybe it's something in a 309 00:18:11,385 --> 00:18:14,765 You're going to get something different out of it than maybe others in the class. 310 00:18:14,905 --> 00:18:16,695 And maybe that's the right thing. 311 00:18:16,695 --> 00:18:17,695 Maybe that's the wrong thing. 312 00:18:17,695 --> 00:18:19,025 However, we want to classify it. 313 00:18:19,515 --> 00:18:24,815 Um, and so when we think about Alt Text, uh, in this way, it helps us think about, 314 00:18:24,835 --> 00:18:27,284 okay, why are we choosing this image? 315 00:18:27,785 --> 00:18:31,164 And what we often saw kind of building off of this is, you know, a 316 00:18:31,164 --> 00:18:34,574 faculty member might choose an image and start typing out the Alt Text. 317 00:18:34,614 --> 00:18:38,504 And now all of a sudden we have two paragraphs as the Alt Text. 318 00:18:38,564 --> 00:18:40,564 And it's like, well, hold on a second. 319 00:18:41,024 --> 00:18:41,204 If. 320 00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:45,219 If you, you know, if you're using this image to convey that much 321 00:18:45,219 --> 00:18:49,110 information, it probably means this image is very important to 322 00:18:49,110 --> 00:18:51,069 understanding of whatever the concept is. 323 00:18:51,459 --> 00:18:56,019 So let's consider how you can take that two paragraph Alt Text, which is way 324 00:18:56,019 --> 00:19:00,690 too long, and put it into your slide deck or put it into your discussion for 325 00:19:00,690 --> 00:19:05,139 the class or put it into your text or whatever it might be so that the image 326 00:19:05,139 --> 00:19:09,520 is still there, of course, but you have become a more explicit instructor to 327 00:19:09,550 --> 00:19:11,659 say, hey everybody, look at this image. 328 00:19:12,395 --> 00:19:15,215 You might see this, this, and this in there, and here's why this is 329 00:19:15,215 --> 00:19:16,895 significant to what we're talking about. 330 00:19:17,294 --> 00:19:22,684 And so I think there, that is a phenomenal way that accessibility really can be 331 00:19:22,685 --> 00:19:26,814 sort of this feedback loop for us as instructors and educators to think, 332 00:19:27,435 --> 00:19:31,054 okay, if I need to spend one second thinking about what I'm about to share 333 00:19:31,054 --> 00:19:34,584 with my students, let me actually spend that one second thinking about. 334 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,390 Why am I doing that? 335 00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:37,600 Let me reflect on it. 336 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:41,940 And if I'm assuming or expecting that it's going to do all this heavy lifting and I 337 00:19:41,950 --> 00:19:46,570 haven't been explicit with my students, chances are very good someone will miss 338 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,849 that because for so many reasons, right? 339 00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:52,239 So I think your example is so great. 340 00:19:52,679 --> 00:19:54,299 Um, and I, I definitely agree. 341 00:19:54,699 --> 00:19:56,659 Uh, it's, it's an important piece of it. 342 00:19:58,730 --> 00:20:07,265 Um, I, I think that it would be Really useful for folks to learn about some of 343 00:20:07,265 --> 00:20:14,415 the resources that Teach Access has that is not necessarily going to be part of 344 00:20:14,444 --> 00:20:18,600 what they will see on the Digication, you know, sort of interface because 345 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:24,175 Teach Access is a lot more deeper set of resources than what, you know, we 346 00:20:24,175 --> 00:20:29,555 have included in the, in, in, in, on, on our, you know, in our product page. 347 00:20:29,925 --> 00:20:36,065 Um, so, um, I, I, I'm going to jump, you know, give you a jump off point because 348 00:20:36,065 --> 00:20:40,275 I think that these are things that I, I've seen and I just love them so much. 349 00:20:40,625 --> 00:20:44,855 You have, for example, opportunities for faculty members to get 350 00:20:44,865 --> 00:20:46,465 involved, further involved. 351 00:20:46,504 --> 00:20:50,485 So meaning those ones that are saying, Hey, this, I've, I've been 352 00:20:50,485 --> 00:20:53,875 exposed to it now, but I want more. 353 00:20:54,625 --> 00:20:58,095 I want to rethink help with... 354 00:20:58,095 --> 00:21:01,004 get some help thinking about my curriculum, thinking 355 00:21:01,004 --> 00:21:02,365 about my whole course. 356 00:21:02,844 --> 00:21:03,744 Can I get help? 357 00:21:03,745 --> 00:21:05,985 And I know that you provide that and I want you to talk about it. 358 00:21:06,025 --> 00:21:09,395 Similarly, students can, you know, can, can get resources. 359 00:21:09,935 --> 00:21:12,495 Um, can we talk about that? 360 00:21:12,515 --> 00:21:15,725 Because I think that there will be people, right? 361 00:21:15,754 --> 00:21:18,864 Whether it be people who listen to this and go, you know what? 362 00:21:19,375 --> 00:21:20,495 I should check this out. 363 00:21:21,075 --> 00:21:21,445 Right. 364 00:21:21,905 --> 00:21:27,685 Um, or that they saw our, you know, you know, sort of, uh, our 365 00:21:27,895 --> 00:21:31,805 experience, you know, through, you know, building something in Digication 366 00:21:31,824 --> 00:21:33,675 and they go, Oh, well, what is this? 367 00:21:33,685 --> 00:21:34,345 Can I learn more? 368 00:21:34,525 --> 00:21:37,214 Can you tell, tell us a little bit more now about like, what's, what's, 369 00:21:37,295 --> 00:21:40,905 what are some of the top resources that you recommend people check out? 370 00:21:41,285 --> 00:21:41,785 Love that. 371 00:21:41,785 --> 00:21:42,765 Thank you for this question. 372 00:21:42,775 --> 00:21:44,504 And I do hope people come and check it out. 373 00:21:44,545 --> 00:21:50,985 So, um, Some of the top resources that we have, um, for faculty who are 374 00:21:50,985 --> 00:21:54,895 ready or would like to think about, okay, I'm ready to be teaching this. 375 00:21:55,414 --> 00:21:59,874 Um, we have something called the Teach Access Curriculum Repository and it's 376 00:21:59,875 --> 00:22:07,405 a free open educational resource or OER repository with more than 350, I think, 377 00:22:07,405 --> 00:22:12,794 at this point, different individual curricular items that are divided into a 378 00:22:12,794 --> 00:22:15,304 dozen or so different discipline areas. 379 00:22:15,895 --> 00:22:20,554 Um, and these are all under a Creative Commons license so that you are free as an 380 00:22:20,554 --> 00:22:24,554 educator to go in there, take, and adapt for your own class and your own teaching. 381 00:22:25,085 --> 00:22:26,505 Um, but it's a variety of things. 382 00:22:26,985 --> 00:22:33,975 Sample syllabi, um, uh, slide decks, assignment prompts, um, discussion 383 00:22:34,365 --> 00:22:39,505 posts, et cetera, that you can go and take and adapt and put into your course. 384 00:22:39,615 --> 00:22:43,375 They've been created by other educators who have used them in their courses. 385 00:22:43,375 --> 00:22:46,894 And so the idea is that, hey, I'm ready to teach, or I want to look at 386 00:22:46,924 --> 00:22:50,664 some materials and see how I can add this to a course I'm already teaching. 387 00:22:50,915 --> 00:22:52,495 So that's out there, free and open. 388 00:22:53,725 --> 00:22:59,675 Along those lines, we have some self guided or self paced asynchronous courses. 389 00:23:00,415 --> 00:23:04,974 Again, in some discipline topics that if you're like, I'm wanting to 390 00:23:04,974 --> 00:23:09,164 do this, but I'd like a little more information for myself, you can go in 391 00:23:09,164 --> 00:23:15,340 and learn about your discipline area and accessibility to help set you up for that. 392 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,470 And then we have a few other programs, um, that are more kind of hybrid, um, 393 00:23:20,979 --> 00:23:24,910 or, or fully synchronous virtual, of course, all of them right now, uh, 394 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,699 where you can be in community in a cohort, um, with other professors 395 00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:33,470 from across the U S other educators who are looking to also be teaching. 396 00:23:33,820 --> 00:23:37,520 And so we pull from those two pieces I talked about the repository and 397 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,800 the, um, the self paced courses. 398 00:23:40,229 --> 00:23:40,750 Um, but. 399 00:23:40,865 --> 00:23:44,695 We work together with faculty to, to work through what is this? 400 00:23:44,695 --> 00:23:46,235 What is it gonna look like to teach it? 401 00:23:46,605 --> 00:23:49,835 Um, and, and a little bit set them up to become advocates. 402 00:23:50,065 --> 00:23:52,535 So, okay, go to your campus and tell your colleagues. 403 00:23:52,905 --> 00:23:55,035 Go to that conference and tell your colleagues. 404 00:23:55,605 --> 00:23:57,804 Um, so that's really sort of the... 405 00:23:58,060 --> 00:24:03,600 the highlights for, um, that and I should note very importantly, um, some 406 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:07,549 of them, we actually provide stipends, um, for faculty to participate. 407 00:24:07,589 --> 00:24:10,600 So we provide you funding to be able to do this as well. 408 00:24:10,959 --> 00:24:16,269 Um, recognizing time is important and when we want to honor that, um, and same. 409 00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:19,939 On the student side, not, not same as in we're providing funding for 410 00:24:19,939 --> 00:24:23,870 students, but um, right now we have some virtual offerings where students can 411 00:24:23,870 --> 00:24:25,989 hear directly from industry partners. 412 00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:30,220 Um, they can hear directly from other faculty, uh, accessibility 413 00:24:30,229 --> 00:24:34,949 experts, as well as disability, um, non profit, um, advocates. 414 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:41,355 And so there are programs where Someone from a company will come 415 00:24:41,355 --> 00:24:45,334 in and talk about, Hey, here's what accessibility looks like at this company. 416 00:24:45,775 --> 00:24:47,764 Um, here's what my job looks like. 417 00:24:48,084 --> 00:24:51,975 Um, here's an interesting topic around accessibility or disability that we're 418 00:24:51,975 --> 00:24:53,855 going to talk about that I do in my work. 419 00:24:54,334 --> 00:24:59,825 Um, and so it's really a space where students can hear directly from people 420 00:24:59,825 --> 00:25:01,365 who are doing this work right now. 421 00:25:01,814 --> 00:25:03,685 Um, and obviously build their network. 422 00:25:04,015 --> 00:25:06,605 Um, and so think about building their network with each other. 423 00:25:06,675 --> 00:25:10,055 They're future colleagues, right, who are in school with them right now. 424 00:25:10,465 --> 00:25:13,795 Um, but also the people that they'll want to connect with in companies 425 00:25:13,835 --> 00:25:15,765 they go work for or in general. 426 00:25:15,785 --> 00:25:19,095 So, um, the other thing is everything is free. 427 00:25:19,484 --> 00:25:23,655 So all of the things I've talked about, anything you find on our website is free. 428 00:25:24,044 --> 00:25:27,335 Um, we don't charge for people to be able to access these things. 429 00:25:27,685 --> 00:25:31,195 Um, don't want to add that extra barrier, um, for people to be 430 00:25:31,195 --> 00:25:32,735 able to, to get this information. 431 00:25:32,955 --> 00:25:34,995 So, yes. 432 00:25:35,405 --> 00:25:38,385 And how, how do you provide these things for free? 433 00:25:38,475 --> 00:25:44,236 Um, you know, how, um, how does, um, how, how is Teach Access funded? 434 00:25:44,236 --> 00:25:45,194 Yeah, great question. 435 00:25:45,225 --> 00:25:49,615 So, um, as a non profit, we're funded in ways that many non profits are. 436 00:25:49,615 --> 00:25:54,504 So, so we do get funding, um, sponsorship from companies, industry. 437 00:25:54,865 --> 00:25:56,834 Um, so they'll provide sponsorship for us. 438 00:25:57,375 --> 00:26:01,319 Um, we also, of course, accept Donations from people who are 439 00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:04,840 excited about our cause and are in a position to be able to give. 440 00:26:05,229 --> 00:26:08,750 Um, so we have individual donors, um, and then we're working 441 00:26:08,850 --> 00:26:10,599 on different types of grants. 442 00:26:11,149 --> 00:26:14,039 Um, you know, for example, in NSF funding, we're working with 443 00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:18,529 some faculty, hopefully, uh, on different ways that we can do this 444 00:26:18,530 --> 00:26:21,190 work, um, in, within those grants. 445 00:26:21,719 --> 00:26:24,770 Um, so other types of federal grants, um, and then of course 446 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,889 foundations and those sorts of things. 447 00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:27,379 So. 448 00:26:27,645 --> 00:26:28,915 Yes, it's a, it's a mix. 449 00:26:29,415 --> 00:26:37,135 So if any listeners here today, um, identifies with Kate's and her team's 450 00:26:37,135 --> 00:26:45,984 mission, um, on, you know, these ways of, she's already done so much, you know, 451 00:26:45,995 --> 00:26:51,305 with, with, you know, you know, with so little and being able to, you know, 452 00:26:51,305 --> 00:26:53,325 provide all these resources to the world. 453 00:26:53,915 --> 00:26:59,245 Um, And, and I think that we can all see it's just a really smart way by 454 00:26:59,245 --> 00:27:04,665 design because you are getting faculty members and teachers to be get involved 455 00:27:04,695 --> 00:27:08,935 and they are the ones who is going to then, you know, one of them may, may, 456 00:27:09,004 --> 00:27:15,698 may on an annual basis, you know, come across a couple hundred students or 457 00:27:15,698 --> 00:27:22,720 something more and imagine the kind of Um, exponential reach that you can have. 458 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,150 So for every dollar that you donate, for every dollar that you support this 459 00:27:27,150 --> 00:27:30,530 organization, it gets used so well. 460 00:27:30,539 --> 00:27:33,410 Then this is why I love this organization so much. 461 00:27:33,730 --> 00:27:36,829 And I also want to say that for those who are employers. 462 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,400 There's one resource that I've looked at and I love. 463 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,520 And do you want to talk about it? 464 00:27:42,550 --> 00:27:42,740 The tool kit? 465 00:27:42,810 --> 00:27:44,670 Yeah, is it the hiring tool kit? 466 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,310 I'm guessing. 467 00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:48,600 Yeah, I know it's so, so, um, I'll give a little, I know we're probably 468 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,450 nearing time here, but, um, you know, when we think about the work 469 00:27:51,450 --> 00:27:54,380 we do, we really are thinking about, you know, the educational approach. 470 00:27:54,380 --> 00:27:57,680 We're thinking about supporting faculty, um, curriculum design, 471 00:27:57,690 --> 00:27:59,330 development, et cetera, and students. 472 00:27:59,990 --> 00:28:04,925 Um, so we aren't necessarily sort of strictly a workforce development 473 00:28:04,925 --> 00:28:07,855 organization, although we're part of that conversation, right? 474 00:28:07,855 --> 00:28:11,284 Because what we're doing is trying to close that gap we were talking about. 475 00:28:12,084 --> 00:28:15,794 And so recognizing that, we thought, you know, all right, so we're working 476 00:28:15,794 --> 00:28:20,004 with faculty, they're excited, they're teaching hundreds of students, students 477 00:28:20,174 --> 00:28:23,804 are getting excited, they're getting ready to go out and look for jobs. 478 00:28:24,415 --> 00:28:28,935 And how do we create a space where students can Find and 479 00:28:28,935 --> 00:28:31,865 identify organizations that are looking for their skills. 480 00:28:32,805 --> 00:28:35,205 And so we've created something called the Accessibility 481 00:28:35,205 --> 00:28:37,944 Technology Skills Hiring Toolkit. 482 00:28:39,105 --> 00:28:43,265 Again, free resource, uh, created together with educators, 483 00:28:43,294 --> 00:28:44,864 industry, disability groups. 484 00:28:45,775 --> 00:28:50,653 And the idea behind this is that you, if you are in any sort of hiring position. 485 00:28:50,653 --> 00:28:54,055 An HR manager, or just, you, you, you write job descriptions. 486 00:28:54,555 --> 00:28:55,615 You can go here. 487 00:28:56,205 --> 00:29:00,265 I think right now we have around a dozen sort of, um, what I'll call 488 00:29:00,265 --> 00:29:02,694 sort of generic, uh, job descriptions. 489 00:29:02,745 --> 00:29:07,025 You know, Product Manager, Front-end Designer, etc. 490 00:29:07,075 --> 00:29:13,260 Um, and we have, uh, several different, bulleted lists items that you can 491 00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:17,770 copy and paste into your own job descriptions that indicate here's, 492 00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:20,006 you know, we're hiring a Front-end... 493 00:29:20,006 --> 00:29:23,849 entry-level Front-end Developer, here's the stuff we would love for that 494 00:29:23,849 --> 00:29:25,590 person to know about accessibility. 495 00:29:25,999 --> 00:29:28,149 Um, not again, not an expert. 496 00:29:28,219 --> 00:29:31,280 This is not an accessibility specific role, but just we'd like 497 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,120 them to know that the web content accessibility guidelines exist. 498 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,310 We'd like them to know whatever that might be. 499 00:29:36,730 --> 00:29:38,259 Um, so you can copy and paste. 500 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,680 Right into your own job descriptions. 501 00:29:41,250 --> 00:29:44,070 And then we've also provided some sample interview questions. 502 00:29:44,570 --> 00:29:48,990 So recognizing sometimes the person who's written the job description 503 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,809 or, you know, the team that this, this employee might go on to, isn't 504 00:29:52,809 --> 00:29:55,130 necessarily who's doing the interviewing. 505 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:57,089 There's a hiring manager or an interviewer. 506 00:29:57,530 --> 00:30:02,775 Um, and so providing some questions to help ask Hey, do you actually 507 00:30:02,775 --> 00:30:05,325 know what the, what WCAG is? 508 00:30:05,835 --> 00:30:07,145 Where would you go to find it? 509 00:30:07,145 --> 00:30:09,935 You know, some, some, some ways to help prepare. 510 00:30:10,074 --> 00:30:11,639 This is the answer we're looking for. 511 00:30:11,639 --> 00:30:14,944 Just interviewing with me, and if he says something along 512 00:30:14,944 --> 00:30:16,505 these lines, that's a thumbs up. 513 00:30:16,535 --> 00:30:20,644 That means he knows whatever it is that I'm trying to screen for, um, 514 00:30:20,675 --> 00:30:22,385 when it comes to accessibility skills. 515 00:30:22,835 --> 00:30:24,735 So, it's, we continue to add to it. 516 00:30:24,910 --> 00:30:27,140 So this is one way people can contribute. 517 00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:31,790 Um, we, we are always looking for more people if they're like, Hey, I 518 00:30:31,790 --> 00:30:35,860 often hire for this type of job and this would be great if people had this 519 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,450 entry level knowledge, we welcome that. 520 00:30:38,639 --> 00:30:41,270 Um, we want to make sure that this resource is something 521 00:30:41,270 --> 00:30:43,369 that is relevant and usable. 522 00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:44,840 Um, so. 523 00:30:45,595 --> 00:30:46,915 If you're interested, let us know. 524 00:30:46,915 --> 00:30:51,525 We'd love to be able to bring you in and have you help and volunteer 525 00:30:51,525 --> 00:30:54,855 with creating that resource or building the resource out. 526 00:30:56,885 --> 00:30:59,185 Um, I, I love that. 527 00:30:59,185 --> 00:31:02,455 I think that it's, it's just wonderful that you are thinking 528 00:31:02,465 --> 00:31:07,500 about all the different, You know, different components that goes into, 529 00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:10,390 into, into the ecosystem, right? 530 00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:14,600 And, and all of the people that are involved and you are so smart and trying 531 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,560 to get them to, to be able to, you know, provide the resources that can be reused 532 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:25,539 over and over again, and ultimately just powering them, making them, um, 533 00:31:26,195 --> 00:31:31,315 You know, have the, have the, have the ability to develop all of those, those, 534 00:31:31,445 --> 00:31:33,715 those, those literacies, literacy skills. 535 00:31:34,155 --> 00:31:36,105 You know, we, we already talked about students. 536 00:31:36,165 --> 00:31:37,835 We talked about, you know, the educators. 537 00:31:37,855 --> 00:31:39,834 Now we're talking about the employers as well, right? 538 00:31:40,124 --> 00:31:42,365 So, you know, you're going to reach more and more of this. 539 00:31:42,715 --> 00:31:47,924 And for those who are, um, faculty members and careers 540 00:31:48,104 --> 00:31:49,795 people, you're listening to this. 541 00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:56,220 I'll tell you like my, like when, when I saw this first hiring, you know, toolkit, 542 00:31:56,530 --> 00:32:03,160 my first thought was, wow, that would be a really cool backward design hack by seeing 543 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,239 what questions, you know, like, you know, like the industry is going to end up. 544 00:32:08,725 --> 00:32:13,205 Asking of our students and being able to go, are we teaching these things at 545 00:32:13,205 --> 00:32:16,475 school or are we setting our students up to fail because they're going to 546 00:32:16,475 --> 00:32:20,554 go into these meetings and they're going to ask them these questions 547 00:32:20,554 --> 00:32:23,694 and they're going to, you know, be like, wait, what are we talking about? 548 00:32:24,284 --> 00:32:24,614 Right. 549 00:32:24,655 --> 00:32:28,115 And so, um, And I'm not saying specifically like teach the 550 00:32:28,115 --> 00:32:31,155 test, but you need to figure out where the world is going. 551 00:32:31,155 --> 00:32:35,225 And I think that this is sort of, you can see the tea leaves now, like, Kate, 552 00:32:35,225 --> 00:32:36,675 you've, you've sort of laid it out. 553 00:32:36,954 --> 00:32:40,405 And, and I think people, you know, need to now go in and recognize them. 554 00:32:41,415 --> 00:32:45,824 Well, Hey, listen, I know that we can, we can talk for a lot longer. 555 00:32:45,824 --> 00:32:48,655 Cause I feel like that we have in other occasions, but. 556 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,630 Um, I, I, um, I really, really appreciate you sharing your insights. 557 00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:57,780 I think that your passion to accessibility is infectious. 558 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,420 Um, and, um, and your organization is doing such amazing work. 559 00:33:02,470 --> 00:33:05,600 I am so, so proud to be able to call you a partner and a friend. 560 00:33:06,029 --> 00:33:11,050 And I, I really look forward to our continuing, um, collaboration. 561 00:33:11,090 --> 00:33:16,709 And, um, for anyone who is also interested in Kate's and her team's work, 562 00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:18,810 please go check out TeachAccess.org. 563 00:33:18,810 --> 00:33:22,570 We will list a bunch of those resources that she mentioned in 564 00:33:22,570 --> 00:33:24,160 the, in the, in the show notes. 565 00:33:24,460 --> 00:33:29,070 But you know how, you know, a, a di highly dynamic organization like this will 566 00:33:29,070 --> 00:33:31,230 constantly have new resources, et cetera. 567 00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:36,090 So following them on the, on social media and checking out their website, 568 00:33:36,090 --> 00:33:39,140 looking for their news would be a, would be a good way to go. 569 00:33:39,140 --> 00:33:44,465 Uh, Kate also appears often at various conferences, um, and, and, and, and, 570 00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:46,860 and public, um, you know, events. 571 00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:48,150 And so look out for her. 572 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:48,780 Um. 573 00:33:48,930 --> 00:33:54,020 If you enjoyed listening to her today here on Digication Scholars Conversations. 574 00:33:54,670 --> 00:33:56,250 Yes, thank you so much, Jeff. 575 00:33:56,260 --> 00:33:59,775 Thank you for having us, uh, us meeting the larger Teach Access. 576 00:33:59,987 --> 00:34:02,900 I know it was just me today and my cat in the background. 577 00:34:02,900 --> 00:34:03,890 There is a cat here. 578 00:34:03,940 --> 00:34:07,669 Uh, for those who aren't watching on, on, um, on the video, 579 00:34:07,669 --> 00:34:08,879 there is a cat joining us. 580 00:34:09,019 --> 00:34:12,080 Uh, but yeah, thank you so much for, for making the space for 581 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,830 us, um, to partner with you. 582 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,210 We. 583 00:34:14,525 --> 00:34:15,805 We're so thrilled about it. 584 00:34:16,235 --> 00:34:20,125 And yeah, happy to, to anyone who wants to reach out, learn more. 585 00:34:20,885 --> 00:34:22,245 We really encourage that. 586 00:34:23,415 --> 00:34:23,885 Okay. 587 00:34:23,955 --> 00:34:24,345 All right. 588 00:34:24,495 --> 00:34:26,425 Well, take care of Kate and talk to you soon. 589 00:34:26,845 --> 00:34:27,335 Thanks Jeff. 590 00:34:29,314 --> 00:34:29,704 Bye. 591 00:34:31,244 --> 00:34:34,894 Coming up next, we'll be chatting with Brittany Linus, a recent 592 00:34:34,895 --> 00:34:37,115 graduate of Stanford University. 593 00:34:37,705 --> 00:34:38,955 Here's a quick preview. 594 00:34:39,735 --> 00:34:45,085 I was just perusing the homepage and I was just like, of course, every website, every 595 00:34:45,145 --> 00:34:51,924 school is going to have short, concise information and all the beautiful pictures 596 00:34:51,925 --> 00:34:54,245 of the campus and then in the classroom. 597 00:34:55,115 --> 00:34:55,649 I'm looking forward to it. 598 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:57,090 for the dirty stuff. 599 00:34:57,180 --> 00:35:02,300 I'm looking for what is going on in the maker spaces, the artist spaces. 600 00:35:02,860 --> 00:35:05,740 I want to know really what Stanford is all about. 601 00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:12,350 Um, and that's when I discovered Stanford University's Design School. 602 00:35:13,830 --> 00:35:20,040 And I remembered on literally on the website, scroll down, it said, 603 00:35:20,410 --> 00:35:25,609 We are here to get stuff done and to get stuff done creatively.