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Jonily : That's the point of
tier one intervention is to

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create this environment,
inclusive and accessible to all,

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but not stripping the complexity
out of the mathematics.

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Cheri Dotterer: Hello, everyone.
I'm Cheri Dotterer. And I'm here

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with Jonily Zupancic. And we are
here at tier one interventions.

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And we are so glad to have you
here today. Lee, we

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Jonily : have a good bit of
content today that we're going

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to roll out to you. We're gonna
lay some foundation, though, and

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define what is tier one
intervention. And we're going to

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start by Sheree and I are going
to converse a little bit about

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that crazy C word that seems
like it keeps coming back. And

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that is COVID. And I don't know
if it's a good or a bad thing

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that we're starting with that
conversation. But I think it's

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necessary. I believe that it
keeps coming back even years

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later, because I believe that it
is an effect that has been on

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humans since 2020. And it's
drastically changed our

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emotions, our mindsets, our
practices, our thinking. And the

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first thing that I want to say
about COVID in its relation to

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tier one interventions is tier
one being whole class general

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classroom instruction, meaning
for the last probably dozen

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years or so we've moved more to
inclusion model in schools,

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which means mainstream we want
every kid regardless of ability,

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deficit struggle, we want them
to experience whole classroom

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regular general instruction,
which we're going to call tier

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one. Tier one is whole classroom
regular classroom. And I will

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say that prior to COVID. In math
and writing, tier one was not

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where it should be, regardless
of COVID. I actually got a

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little excited post COVID
Because I thought this is a

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chance to reframe what regular
classroom tier one looks like

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feels sounds. And now we can
move forward with growth on

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serving all kids in this tier
one inclusion model. But my fear

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has come to be and that is we've
regressed back to where we were

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prior to COVID. And I think that
in many classrooms, we've

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defaulted back to even pre
COVID, where it was not

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instruction for inclusion at
all. It is time today and for

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all of the sessions to have
these conversations. That was a

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lot share, you asked me to share
a little bit, but that was a

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lot. And I know that you have
some specifics for writing. But

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Sherry, let's just talk you and
I a little bit about how COVID

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has affected schools, students,
and especially our students with

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learning specialties.

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Cheri Dotterer: Sure. As I was
contemplating and thinking about

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the impact of COVID on my
students and job in general, one

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thing I reflected back on as an
OT might, generally, across the

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country and even in other parts
of the world. OT caseload, were

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escalating even before COVID, we
were hearing conversations of

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OTS having 100 kids on their
caseload, and I'm like, How do

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you do that and treat the child
with efficiency and meet the

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goals the way they're supposed
to be met? Because it's

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impossible to see 100 kids as an
OT, and to do sessions with them

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that are go small groups. We see
a lot of kids more in the tier

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three, which we'll talk about in
a little bit. But that's more

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like a one on one session. We
generally can do like a two on

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one. But Medicaid doesn't allow
us to do bigger groups. Unless

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we adjust time like there's so a
lot of rules about the way we

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are allowed to treat kids and I
I know. So I worked in cyber,

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before COVID head. So cyber had
its own issues. I know my kids

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went to cyber. So I know that
there was 165 kids in a English

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class general ninth grade
English for one of my kids, and

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I can't remember, I think it was
Michael's class. And I'm like,

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for the teacher. That's a lot of
work to be greeting Romeo and

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Juliet 165 times. But yet, you
break that down, there is no

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feasible way that a physically
and OT could work one on one

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with a kid because a lot of what
I was doing, even in the world

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of cyber, I was going to their
home, which is where they went

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to school. And I was doing
direct treatment, I'm physically

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in a home for one hour, one on
one with a kiddo with the travel

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time with plus travel time, and
typically there was an hour

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between kids. So just that's the
way that's the nature of being

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in home health, home environment
setting, even when I worked in

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home health, with adult rehab.
So there were some times I was

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traveling two hours between
clients. So I say that, and yes,

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I did work in a brick and mortar
building as well. And I was

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maxed out, my brain was maxed
out trying to manage 15. Now, I

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know Teresa is on this call, she
has a caseload nearly 100 kids

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that she's trying to manage. But
the difference between that kind

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of her caseload, and sometimes
what I was referring to, was

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that she is the OT she has an an
occupational therapy assistant,

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supporting her with some of the
students. So that's a code is

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doing some of the work as a math
teacher, you don't get a math

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assistant teacher helping you
out. But there, the way the

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structure is, with ot two,
teaching is a little bit

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different. So when I heard these
case loads going on, I'm like,

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how can we change? How can we
make it so that it's reusable?

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And that's when I'm started
delving into what can we do in a

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kindergarten classroom, to
collaborate, co teach, and

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potentially, upfront our
intervention, so that we can

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help cover these kids that are
going to struggle potentially

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later, by giving them intensive
instruction. And when I go to

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all of the research on the
science of reading, that's

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exactly what structured literacy
is designed to do is to create

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intensive reading instruction,
so that down the road, we can

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decrease the number of tier two
and tier three.

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Jonily : And obviously, tier two
and tier three are never going

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to be eliminated. No, but as you
talked about Sherry, prior to

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COVID, not only our occupational
therapists caseload is

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increasing. But the number of
kids with math needs were

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increasing, then COVID hits, and
then we're out of control with

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the number of kids that have
needs. So either the kids have

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to change, or we have to change.
And what Sherry and I are

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promoting is that we in schools
in tier one regular classroom,

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make changes, so that the bottom
line is, we are able to serve

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more kids in less time with more
frequency, and not eliminate,

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but reduce the number of
students for needs at the tier

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two tier three level. And we'll
define these tiers in a moment

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more specifically, but right
now, I just want Sherry And I'd

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have this conversation that I
want everybody listening to just

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hear the conversation as a
thought provoking exercise. So

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the point of Tier one is to be
able to serve more kids in less

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time through this collaborative
process. Let me talk about what

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I do what Cheri does, I am

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Cheri Dotterer: rupt you for a
moment. Yeah, go ahead. And what

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struck me about math class is I
had this experience One day, and

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it hit me like led brick. I was
actually while while I was

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writing, handwriting Brain Body
disconnect, I was substitute

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teaching. And I was I took a job
in a learning support classroom.

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So I was the Learning Support
teacher for the day. One of the

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students, I had to shadow them
into math class. And I had

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already known you or I was just
getting to know you at that we

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Jonily : know math classes
broken Cherie, so just lay it on

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us here. But

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Cheri Dotterer: so that was
like, 2018 ish, that this

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happen. And I'm going, Whoa, I
can see where this kid is

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struggling. Now. He was in a pre
algebra class. So he was in

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ninth grade, which was not my
typical, I usually was taking

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elementary kids when I was doing
the substitute teaching. But

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they had asked me they were
like, I need some support today.

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So I took the job. And I ended
up doing a lot of OT for not

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just that kid in the class, but
several other the other kids in

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that class. And the teacher
went, where did you come from,

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and, and had no idea where I was
trying to intervene and not stop

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the math class. But yet, I
needed to because he was going a

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mile a minute. And I think this
is one of those scenarios that

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we talked about in math
disconnected. And for anybody

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who is listening, I know that
might take us off on a tangent.

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But when I think it was one of
those things that we were

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talking about, as we were
developing that story, where the

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math teacher gets derailed by
the therapist, because the

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therapist is coming in making
suggestions on how to change the

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entire classroom to make it more
accessible for all students

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boom.

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Jonily : Absolutely. That's of
tier one intervention is to

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create this environment,
inclusive and accessible to all,

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but not stripping the complexity
out of the mathematics. And what

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we're going to bring to you
today. Through tier one

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instruction. Tier one
intervention is how to increase

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the complexity of the
mathematics. So we're going to

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actually have our most
struggling kids learning more

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understanding more, and being
able to decipher more math,

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symbols and notations that are
their biggest struggle. We're

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going to increase the complexity
for all but we're also going to

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increase the accessibility at
the same time too good to be

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true. It's not that's what we're
bringing to you today. And that

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is exactly what's your one means
with Sherry, being occupational

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therapist, from this medical
world, from this neuroscience

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world, from this brain based
world, and myself Jonily Being

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from the educational world,
general classroom teacher, as we

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begin to have these
conversations, and then we've

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had these conversations over
time, we realize that what we're

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doing in our own worlds without
the connection of each other, is

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not serving these kids long
term. So through our

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collaboration, and through
Sherry's therapies, and math

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interventions together, what we
bring to you is the post COVID

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Miracle math classroom, for lack
of a better phrasing. And I know

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Sherry, you talked you always
are talking to me about the

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execution of writing, the fall
of writing. Sheree, talk to us a

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little bit about how in 2009,
like way prior to COVID, the

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effects that legislation had on
writing in the classroom. And

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I'll make that connection to the
mathematics. And I know it

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sounds like oh, my gosh, in this
first 30 minutes, we're just

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we're like, massaging the
problem, but it's the elephant

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in the room. We've got to talk
about these things. And then for

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the following two hours, it's
going to be all solution based.

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But Sherry talked about some of
the catastrophe that happened

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with writing, and explicit
writing instruction or lack

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thereof. And then I'll parallel
that to mathematics. And why

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this is affected tier one
instruction as well.

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Cheri Dotterer: My entire career
has been funding changes so on

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But I'm even going to take it
back a little step further

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because yeah, graduated from
college in the late 90s, I

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entered acute care. As they were
changing all the fundings and

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all the regulations from you
could treat kit people as long

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as you want. And that's when
they were trying to minimize the

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amount of time that you spend in
the hospital. So we went from

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this large gap of time spent in
a hospital enter acute care, we

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start DRGs. So don't worry about
what the definitions is with

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those. But they were trying to
shorten hospital stay. I moved

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my progress my life over to long
term care. The whole medical

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world shifted. And now they were
implementing the same DRGs and

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in subacute, an acute and long
term care. So I work with that a

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while. By the time I get to
homecare, they did the same

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thing with DRGs and have gone,
when am I going to get free of

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this limiting my ability to do
work, I transitioned over to

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pediatrics. And doggone it,
don't they come up with a thing

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called Common Core. So around
the time that I was starting to

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work in pediatric school based
therapy, I was also working

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early intervention zero to two.
So I was going out to homes and

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I'm working with babies,
toddlers, don't they do the same

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art thing where they have
similar things called the same

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DRGs, which were the limiting
the thing to babies and

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toddlers, which happened around
2009. And what happened was,

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when babies were having a Dilek
developmental delay, they will

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come out and there were six
domains. And don't ask me to

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recall those domains, right at
the moment, because I forgot to

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pull that up and list them out
because I can never remember

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them. Anyway, long term short
is, within those six domains, if

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there was one of them that there
was 25% delay, they could get

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therapy for that area. So it
could have been that they needed

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learning support. So they get an
actual special education teacher

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who was zero to two trained. So
I don't know where you get that

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specific training in education,
I think you have to go back and

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get a master's degree. But
besides birth one, so you could

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get that if they had gross motor
skills, they were getting PT,

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speech, delay, speech, therapy,
and then ot would do fine motor

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and play. While that was
happening, I was also working

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school system. And we were doing
pretty good. And NAD around word

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00:18:03,509 --> 00:18:08,549
2012, this thing called Common
Core hit and I'm like, What is

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going on. And that's when the
escalation started. So the

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combination of oxtails sub the
kids hitting first second grade

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having that decrease in that
percentage, because so I forgot

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to say was that with the change
in Rockdale, it was now overall

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25%. So it wasn't just one area,
it was overall 25%. So you could

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have still had it 30% delay in
fine motor skills and knockout

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therapy. So now these kids we're
hitting kindergarten, first

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grade, I'm working with these
kids, and I'm getting more

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referrals for for kindergarten
and first grade, that they're

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struggling with fine motor
skills, incomes Common Core. And

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we get escalated. And all of a
sudden, caseloads are starting

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to go Raizy across the board in
occupational therapy, and we're

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like, What in the world is
happening as

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Jonily : far as fine motor
handwriting, those types of

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things. And because it was not
direct in the curriculum

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anymore.

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Cheri Dotterer: And so thank you
for referring my brain back to

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what happened in Common Core is
the writing standards do not

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specifically say handwriting
instruction. They say text and

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font. And the way it's worded it
does not say that somebody needs

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to be able to read and write in
a handwritten font. All of a

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sudden, all these other demands
were coming on the teachers

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Himani get pushed and pushed and
pushed. And all of a sudden

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00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:01,200
there's just no time in the day
to do that. recommended 20

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00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,750
minutes of handwriting
instruction, which is what the

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research says. The research says
20 minutes of handwriting

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practice per day improves long
term handwriting it also

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improves memory and retention
skills. Boom, let's

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Jonily : not just like breeze by
that. It also improves memory

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and retention skills.

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Unknown: Nilima says tier one
interventions was a sensitizing

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00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,780
workshop systematically thought
through put into an easy to

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00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:39,540
understand framework and well
presented. Thank you to you

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00:20:39,540 --> 00:20:43,380
both. Thank you Nilima. You've
been listening to tier one

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00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:46,290
interventions with Jonily
Zupancic and Cheri daughter.

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Tier one interventions is
released on the first and third

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00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,250
Tuesday of the month. The
podcast is recorded live on the

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00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:57,120
third Saturday of each month
except July, the first segment

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00:20:57,120 --> 00:21:00,690
of the podcast is released to
your favorite podcast app. To

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00:21:00,690 --> 00:21:03,990
hear the entire workshop go to
tier one interventions.com and

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00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:06,750
register for our mailing list to
get all the news about the next

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00:21:06,750 --> 00:21:10,500
episode. Be sure to subscribe so
you don't miss the next episodes

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00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:15,000
release. Do us a favor give us a
five star rating and write a

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00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,500
review. Every vote matters. I'm
Nicholas King, an intern for

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00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:21,390
cheri Dotterer educational
consulting