Jonily : We've all been through a math class in our lives. I
want you to think right now about a green math experience
that you've had. And I want you to think about a red math
experience you've had.
Cheri Dotterer: Hello, everyone. I'm Cheri Dotterer. And I'm here
with Jonily Zupancic. And we are here at tier one interventions.
In
Jonily : mathematics, one of the biggest deficits that we see is
for students having a lack of prerequisite skills. What's
happening is, students are not getting the foundational
instruction. That is allowing an opportunity for increased memory
and retention for any content area. But we already know the
deficits they're having in mathematics. And there is a
direct correlation to the fine motor and handwriting piece. So
the reason Sherry and I are having this conversation, this
foundational conversation before we attack you, with some very
intense content today, is it's important to understand the
purpose and why we're presenting to you today's content. And what
we hope for the results to be, we hope for the results to be
that we increase focus, attention, memory, retention of
content and engagement in the regular classroom, so that the
majority of kids so that 85 to 90% of our kids get exactly what
they need, in the 40 minutes of math class a day or any class.
In the regular general classroom, which we're calling
tier one,
Cheri Dotterer: I want to share a thing called the megaphone
effect, before you go and explain the tears. And that is
for every year that a child is struggling and not maintaining
the proficiency. In that subject area, the megaphone gets bigger
and bigger. It takes five years, five years for them to catch up,
where all their peers are moving ahead. They're back here. It
they move here, their peers are moving ahead there. They have so
much more difficult time. So if we can get these kids
understanding, writing concepts, math concepts, reading concepts,
in those state those early years kindergarten, first and second
grade, they will, we can reduce that megaphone effect by the
time that they're in secondary ed, which is where Jonily
started yet, but has discovered that these gaps in mathematical
education, we can reduce the megaphone, and we can help more
kids with less expense.
Jonily : Now, this is the really great news as I share with us,
because I want to formally define each tear, we keep
throwing out these terms and through this conversation. And I
just want to make sure everybody listening understands what we're
talking about. But there is absolutely great news.
Absolutely great news. The content that Cheri and I are
bringing to you today are minimal time interventions. We
are streamlining and simplifying the entire intervention process.
And when I say intervention, I mean for mathematics and non
academic. So intervention for focus, memory, retention,
engagement, and then interventions to understand the
math content. That combination we've simplified, we've
streamlined, and we've taken it down to the bare minimum bottom
lines that we can do in the classroom. So not only are we
reducing the time it's going to take to get these kids up to
par. We're actually reducing the amount of things that we have to
do. So we can actually do more in less time. Now, as we said
before, and I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. So if
so Sherry and I are going to be putting this conversation on a
lot of different platforms. So just understand that if you're
only on an auditory if you're only on a listening platform
right now, like a podcast, you're not going to see my
screen. I'm telling you everything that's on it. But for
those of you that can see the visual and see the slide deck,
it's just another another sense that you can see here, I'm just
going to define each tears. We have three tiers to support our
clients, our students, tier three, tier two, tier one. Tier
three, is what Cheri was talking about, as far as occupational
therapy, the typical servicing with occupational therapy is you
pull one student out of the classroom and you work one on
one, outside of the classroom, typically disconnected to
whatever content they're teaching in the classroom.
Sherry, correct me if I'm wrong, add anything to that.
Cheri Dotterer: No, that's exactly what happens is we have
these goals as an OT that we need to achieve. But a lot of
times, they're not necessarily integrated with what's happening
in the classroom. Then I tried when I was working with all my
kids, I will be talking to the teacher before my sessions
going, what's happening in spelling, what's happening in
vocabulary? What's happening in math, where do you see the
struggles, so that I could incorporate some of those
activities into my sessions. But yet, there are some times that
those foundational skills underneath there are so profound
that incorporating academics does not happen. And
Jonily : academically tier three, when we're in schools,
logistically, it's not often possible to pull one on one. So
even at a tier three intervention level, if I'm
pulling students, as a specialist and intervention
specialist, or any kind of therapist, any other kind of
therapist or special support person, I may be pulling two or
three students out of the classroom, because logistically,
I just we just have too many numbers. And we can't serve
everyone, there are a lot of adjustments that we make. But
tier three out of the classroom, typically one on one, tier two
intervention can happen in or outside of the classroom. For an
academic teacher, I can do centers in my classroom, or
stations in my classroom, or I could set up some kind of
structure in my classroom, where I actually have the ability as a
teacher to work in the classroom with a small group of students
to provide what that small group of students needs. Tier Two can
happen in the classroom, or I can have a specialist or support
person that pulls students out in a small group and tier two
can happen out of the classroom. Tier Two is not as critical of
needs as tier three, when we're talking tier three and serving
students at the tier three level, we're talking very
critical needs, we're talking maybe one to 2% of our
population, maybe up to 5%. But even that gets a little bit big,
what we've been talking about as far as tier one. And the reason
we're focusing on tier one, which I'll define in a moment
is, as Sherry and I have been talking about the numbers that
have been escalating for tier three services, there shouldn't
be many more than 5% of our population that are in need of
tier three services. If there are, we need to really evaluate
what's happening in the regular classroom, because the regular
classroom should be serving 85 to 90% of our kids. And it's not
the kids, it's us. So that's what we're on a mission to
spread conversation about is if we have that many kids that have
tier three needs, then we need to change what's happening at
tier one. Tier Two numbers have also been escalating. Tier Two
are not as critical as tier three. So it's gonna be much
easier to serve more of those tier two kids in the tier one
classroom. And then finally, what we are focusing on because
I believe wholeheartedly, and through my study of research
that says good instruction, the techniques and tips and
strategies that Sherry and I are going to give it to you today.
Good instruction at the tier one level will reduce the number of
students that are going to have those needs at tier two and tier
three. Tier one is in the classroom, whole class
instruction. full inclusion mainstream kids of all needs all
ability levels, academic and non academic. Through differentiated
instruction. Differentiated Instruction means that the
classroom teacher is knowledgeable and trained and
skilled in providing a lesson so that all students needs are met.
That is what Cheri and I are focusing on as far as tier one.
And the ultimate goal not only is to improve math,
understanding and achievement, improved understanding of number
improved Fact Fluency improve all of those math skills, but
also to improve memory and retention of content, increased
focus and engagement. Also increasing and improving
motivation. so that we break down those barriers and allow
more students access to learning. Sherry, thoughts on
that, or any other additions to that before we get into our
pizzas?
Cheri Dotterer: Sure. So I had an experience when I was working
with one of my contracts. And I was asked to see a kiddo who was
four years old, he was in a pre K classroom, in a building that
housed pre K through third, or fourth, third or fourth grade,
so there was a lot of kids, the pre K kids had a special
entryway, so they were not going through the entire school
building. And when I first got to the school, I went through
the main office got directed to where the classroom was. And I
did pull out, the only place I had to work was the hallway, to
work with his head, trying to get to know him. The teacher
really realized what was going on. She said, Here, come into
the classroom, and you sit here and work with this kiddo. We got
to know one another a little bit because I was listening to her
as she was getting ready to do centers with the kids. And I, at
some point in time, after the kids had gone home, we had
really long discussions. And so this was my first experience at
tier two. And, and it wasn't really that I was working tier
two, necessarily, but she gave me an opportunity to do
something. And I ended up being a center myself, I would talk to
her the week before find out what her overall theme of the
week was going to be. And then I would come up with an activity.
And I actually saw all of the kids in the class. I only got to
build for the 30 minutes, I was seeing the kid, but I ended up
spending two hours there every week. Now, that is not something
in general OT is going to be able to do I know that. Okay.
But what I learned from that was some of the thought process and
some of the foundation of why am I not helping in a tier one
classroom. When I got to one of my other buildings that I did
have kindergarteners, I was working with those kindergarten
teachers, when they were having their meanings. They have their
session meanings once a week or whatever. Periodically, I would
go into those meetings and we would talk about handwriting,
this was all before COVID, long time before COVID. And I never
made the connection to mathematics until you and I met
but it's just like those areas of me that are so out there.
It's going to take innovation, it's going to take changing the
mindset of administrators to help make these changes. I
mentioned that Theresa was on the call. Theresa is also an
occupational therapist, and she and I were talking in one of our
sessions this week, that administration does not see the
benefit at this time of OT and teacher in the classroom at the
same time, collaborating, co teaching on the same topic. They
see it as double billing. And we need to change the mindset from
the money standpoint, because that's what's the one of the
barriers to our success.
Jonily : Love it. Love it. And when we're thinking about
regular classroom, we have people, a lot of times in our
schools, we've got people and we're not logistically utilizing
the people in probably the best ways to maximize services for
kids. So I have a classroom right now that has 36 kids in
it. Now it's not a public school. So we don't have any
restrictions on ratio, but I've got a classroom we've got 36
kids in it. And we are moving leaps and bounds with these kids
that even though there's this huge number of humans in the
classroom, and when I come in the classroom those days there's
two Thus, teachers, the majority of the time, there's one teacher
with those 36 kids. And we have structured tier one, we have
structured that classroom. So these kids are actually learning
more in less time, they're getting more individual needs
met, they're getting more through tier one differentiated
instruction. And instead of COVID, continually affecting our
excuses, our emotions, our mental state our mindset, let's
use it to our advantage. And let's try to figure out how we
can do more with less, and bring back our joy, bring back the joy
in schools, the joy in education. And we can do that
very minimally, mathematically. All we need are 12 anchor
problems and tasks. That's my most struggling students with
the highest amount of ADHD students with dyscalculia
dysgraphia, dyslexia, learning disabilities, ADHD, they are my
students that remember the most. And what's hysterical is some of
those students with learning disabilities, they'll be like
Mr. Panic, I remember you have that green shirt on that day we
did this. The amount of extreme memory and retention is unheard
of. Because I've delivered mathematics in a way that has
become an experience and not a lesson. Now, let me stop for a
moment. Sherry, I was just gonna bring you in, because this is
exactly your cue for giving us your perspective on what I just
talked about. Yes.
Cheri Dotterer: So from a neuroscience, an anatomical
perspective. So thinking of your brain is, has different levels,
you have the back of the brain, the brainstem, your brainstem
goes up into the central part of your brain as called your limbic
system. And then that goes to the cortex, which is the outer
part, which is when you look at pictures of a brain, and you see
all the curves and the swirls and stuff. That's what is the
cortex. But that inner part of the brain is where all the
memory gets stored in the limbic system. And it gets sorted into
different parts of the brain then. But as we are filtering
the messages coming in from the outside, that's the sensory
system. You're bringing information in from the outside.
So as you are encouraging the Tell Me More method in the way
that you delivering your math. Hey, we just a couple of weeks
ago, we did this, and you have the kids are saying, Yes, Mr.
Pennsic, you wore that green shirt. That moment that they
recalled that when you taught that before, notice the depth,
the what you were wearing that day, what the temperature was
outside, what was going on in the neighboring classroom that
they overheard what was going on at home, that was all of those
pieces all get put together into one memory, one experience. And
that gets stored together. And I often say that it's like a
filing cabinet. Every moment of your day gets put into a folder.
And all of the components of it are little sticky notes on the
outside. If it's a positive experience, think of the sticky
note as green. If it's a negative experience, think of it
as red. And if it's, maybe I'll do that again, but maybe not.
It's going to be yellow. It's I don't know how many of you put
it put this in the chat. How many of you have heard about the
zones of regulation? This is where I'm going with this is the
stickies on the outside of the folder are the are another way
of relating to the term zones of regulation. So the zones of
regulation are identifying the feeling that's associated with
the emotion And so I see that some of you have heard about
these in the past. Did you know that emotions and feelings are
different? So when we are looking at that experience that
happened four weeks ago, and the kids that are finally getting
it, because of the way you approach the mathematics, you're
going to see that difference. Does that make any sense? I'm
getting a Yes, from Krista. And generally, did I answer that I
did that? Answer that comment effectively enough. This
Jonily : is so fantastic. Because the filing cabinet is
some is a reference task, basically, of sherry. See,
Sherry has her own reference anchors. And we are going to be
talking about the filing cabinet a lot. And I love how she put
it, the green is a positive, the red is a negative, I want you to
reflect right now, on the typical traditional math
classroom, whether you're a math teacher, yourself, or you're a
therapist or occupational therapist, you don't have your
own classroom, we've all been through a math class in our
lives. I want you to think right now about a green math
experience that you've had. And I want you to think about a read
math experience you've had, I guarantee that 80% of our
population, kids and adults, the majority of their math,
classroom experiences are read.
Cheri Dotterer: That goes along with in general, what we recall,
we recall 80 to 90% of negative feelings over positive feelings,
we really need to draw out the positive by drawing out the
positive that let's go with that idea of the mountaintop
experience that mountaintop experience that, oh my gosh,
that excitement that I this was the main most amazing day is
going to get forgotten much faster, then the drone of
everyday climbing the mountain.
Jonily : So when we are I gotta tell story, so many curriculum
directors, as I'm consulting with school districts on this
method of using reference tasks, and how we can improve our tier
one whole classroom instruction in mathematics. Many curriculum
directors will say to me, we've got to go through a new textbook
rate re adoption, we've got to go through this whole process
we've got. And it makes me cringe a little bit because even
if we adopt a new curriculum, a new textbook, if we're not
changing the instructional delivery, and the mindset and
the facilitation techniques, we're just gonna go through the
same dreaded circle again, just with a new resource. What I want
to champion districts to do is to not worry so much about the
actual resource. Because every textbook will work. You can use
every textbook with this delivery method. Every reference
task that I'm teaching you directly relates to multiple
chapters in units in every textbook. So I almost say it's
irrelevant what curriculum resource you choose. All of them
will work. But at the same time, none of the more work. And we
are prioritizing and focusing on the wrong things at the district
level. Yes, I said it. We're prioritizing and focusing on the
wrong things at the district level. So I'm not saying
textbooks are good. I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just
saying that is not the solution. That is not the solution. So I
bring that up, because that usually after one of my
trainings, that's usually what some people hear me say. That's
all so we have to reconfigure what our priority is, and what
we're focusing on, and how we're creating our math story in our
districts, k 12. And the way that we need to create the math
story is through these 12 reference tasks, that it doesn't
matter what textbook The option you have, you can do it and
coincide with anything. We're focusing on the wrong things.
And how often do we give kids an opportunity for green stickies
in math class? I just want us to really be deliberate and
intentional about that
Unknown: the Lima says tier one interventions was a sensitizing
workshop systematically thought through put into an easy to
understand framework and well presented. Thank you to you
both. Thank you Nilima. You've been listening to tier one
interventions with Jonily Zupancic and Cheri Dotterer.
Tier one interventions is released on the first and third
Tuesday of the month. The podcasts recorded live on the
third Saturday of each month except July, first segment of
podcast is released to your favorite podcast app. Hear the
entire workshop, go to tier one interventions.com and register
for our mailing list to get all the news about the next episode.
Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episodes
release.