1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 < Intro > 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,167 – Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. 3 00:00:08,167 --> 00:00:10,334 Today's world is filled with uncertainty, 4 00:00:10,334 --> 00:00:12,834 and with 2023 looking like a challenging year, 5 00:00:12,834 --> 00:00:15,167 organizations are feeling the squeeze. 6 00:00:15,167 --> 00:00:16,834 Our guest, today, Kevin Herring, 7 00:00:16,834 --> 00:00:19,550 president and founder of Ascent Management Consulting. 8 00:00:19,550 --> 00:00:22,167 Brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to our discussion, 9 00:00:22,167 --> 00:00:24,660 on support functions within organizations. 10 00:00:24,660 --> 00:00:25,660 We'll explore how businesses 11 00:00:25,660 --> 00:00:29,670 can optimize their existing resources, transform their thinking, 12 00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:34,200 and redefine roles to survive and thrive in these turbulent times. 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,640 It's time to reimagine your organization's potential. 14 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,000 So let's dive right into this essential conversation. 15 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:45,500 < Music > 16 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:46,489 Kevin, I want to thank you so much 17 00:00:46,489 --> 00:00:48,079 for coming on the Count Me In podcast. 18 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:49,449 I'm really excited to have you on. 19 00:00:49,449 --> 00:00:53,667 As we talk about support functions within organizations. 20 00:00:53,667 --> 00:00:59,270 And as we both know that the markets, in 2023, are not looking great. 21 00:00:59,270 --> 00:01:00,920 The futures are not looking great. 22 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,167 And it's going to put a squeeze on many organizations. 23 00:01:04,167 --> 00:01:06,950 And can we start talking about, within organizations. 24 00:01:06,950 --> 00:01:10,369 How you can leverage expertise, within your organization, 25 00:01:10,369 --> 00:01:13,749 as cuts and reorganizations are going to have to start coming? 26 00:01:13,749 --> 00:01:15,610 – Yes, that's a great question. 27 00:01:15,610 --> 00:01:16,667 How do we do that? 28 00:01:16,667 --> 00:01:18,333 And I think that you're right. 29 00:01:18,333 --> 00:01:21,333 Everything that we read, everything that we hear, 30 00:01:21,333 --> 00:01:23,829 CEOs are saying that they're hunkering down. 31 00:01:23,829 --> 00:01:28,000 They're planning for a rough 2023, possibly 2024, 32 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,500 and they really have to maximize, 33 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,500 maybe, a better way to put it is to optimize the resources 34 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:37,500 that they have in the organization to get through it. 35 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:41,780 And our support functions play a critical role in that. 36 00:01:41,780 --> 00:01:45,500 Every organization has a lot of natural slack in the system. 37 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:46,860 And, sometimes, we don't realize it 38 00:01:46,860 --> 00:01:49,666 until we really start to drill down and look at what's working, 39 00:01:49,666 --> 00:01:51,540 what's not working, that sort of thing. 40 00:01:51,540 --> 00:01:54,833 And what we find is that when you talk to people, 41 00:01:54,833 --> 00:01:58,229 when you talk to teams, and ask them, 42 00:01:58,229 --> 00:01:59,909 are they contributing everything that 43 00:01:59,909 --> 00:02:02,380 they could possibly contribute to the organization? 44 00:02:02,380 --> 00:02:04,240 Not are they working as hard as they can, 45 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,720 but are they contributing everything? 46 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,220 Do they have capabilities that are not being used? 47 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:11,690 Do they have information, understandings of things 48 00:02:11,690 --> 00:02:13,590 that are not being tapped? 49 00:02:13,590 --> 00:02:18,230 And the answer is almost always, "Absolutely, yes. 50 00:02:18,230 --> 00:02:20,129 I'm doing the best I can with what I have, 51 00:02:20,129 --> 00:02:23,666 but I could do so much more for the organization, if they just let me." 52 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,540 And people and staff functions play such a critical role. 53 00:02:27,540 --> 00:02:32,670 Accountants, finance folks, IT, HR, engineering, supply chain, 54 00:02:32,670 --> 00:02:37,360 all those functions can play a huge role in maximizing 55 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,000 or optimizing the use of our resources. 56 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,860 The people that actually produce the product. 57 00:02:41,860 --> 00:02:45,999 The people that actually interface with the customers directly. 58 00:02:45,999 --> 00:02:49,499 And one of the ways they can do that is really to take a different look, 59 00:02:49,610 --> 00:02:53,166 maybe, than they have, historically, about their role in the organization. 60 00:02:53,166 --> 00:02:54,666 So here are a couple of ways to do that. 61 00:02:54,666 --> 00:02:58,499 One is to think, when I go to work each day, how do I see myself? 62 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,680 And this is not just a semantic exercise. 63 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,170 But do I see myself as an accountant 64 00:03:04,170 --> 00:03:08,999 who just happens to work at XYZ manufacturing company, for instance? 65 00:03:08,999 --> 00:03:14,489 Or do I see myself as an XYZ business person, 66 00:03:14,489 --> 00:03:17,909 who happens to bring accounting expertise to the organization? 67 00:03:17,909 --> 00:03:22,360 And it's a different way of thinking about my role, "Why I'm here?" 68 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:25,332 "What am I supposed to do in this organization?" 69 00:03:25,332 --> 00:03:29,430 Am I just supposed to perform a bunch of tasks related to accounting? 70 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:31,900 Or am I actually supposed to do things that, 71 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:37,165 sometimes, might even stretch me a bit outside of my area of expertise. 72 00:03:37,220 --> 00:03:39,832 To help the business, overall, to be successful 73 00:03:39,832 --> 00:03:42,332 and to look for those opportunities? 74 00:03:42,332 --> 00:03:46,739 And, so, when we do that, we start recognizing that 75 00:03:46,739 --> 00:03:50,209 for an organization to get the full use of our expertise. 76 00:03:50,209 --> 00:03:55,499 We need to think of ourselves in terms of how can we bring 77 00:03:55,499 --> 00:03:59,332 our expertise to bear on the critical situations 78 00:03:59,332 --> 00:04:01,832 the organization is dealing with. 79 00:04:01,832 --> 00:04:04,665 The critical issues they're dealing with, "How do I do that?". 80 00:04:04,665 --> 00:04:08,498 And that's a consulting role; that's not an activity role. 81 00:04:08,498 --> 00:04:12,498 That's not a compliance or regulatory role, that's a consulting role. 82 00:04:12,498 --> 00:04:17,269 That's where we're looking for ways that we can help 83 00:04:17,269 --> 00:04:19,832 those who are in the core business. 84 00:04:19,832 --> 00:04:23,740 To produce more efficiently, more effectively, 85 00:04:23,740 --> 00:04:25,998 to satisfy the customer better. 86 00:04:25,998 --> 00:04:28,498 To produce better products, higher quality, 87 00:04:28,498 --> 00:04:32,690 optimized, profitability, reducing cycle time, 88 00:04:32,690 --> 00:04:35,009 all those sorts of things, delighting the customer. 89 00:04:35,009 --> 00:04:37,130 Those are all things that anyone 90 00:04:37,130 --> 00:04:40,998 in a support function has the ability to help with, 91 00:04:40,998 --> 00:04:43,998 if they think of ways to apply their expertise 92 00:04:43,998 --> 00:04:46,740 in solving existing problems, 93 00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:51,070 and preparing the organization to handle possible future issues. 94 00:04:51,070 --> 00:04:57,665 So that's a shift in thinking, it's also a change in how we operate. 95 00:04:57,665 --> 00:05:00,831 Because now, if I'm a consultant, I need to learn how to be a consultant. 96 00:05:00,860 --> 00:05:02,980 I need to learn consulting skills. 97 00:05:02,980 --> 00:05:06,980 I need to learn how to identify opportunities, 98 00:05:06,980 --> 00:05:10,900 diagnose problems, gather data, assess it, 99 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:14,110 and determine how I can solve that problem. 100 00:05:14,110 --> 00:05:18,030 Or determine if maybe I don't have the expertise to solve it. 101 00:05:18,030 --> 00:05:20,180 Who might have that expertise, 102 00:05:20,180 --> 00:05:22,400 and be willing to source that for those 103 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,389 in the core business that are struggling. 104 00:05:25,389 --> 00:05:27,331 That's a different role, for a lot of people. 105 00:05:27,331 --> 00:05:28,331 – That is a different role. 106 00:05:28,331 --> 00:05:31,710 And it's almost like within your internal organization, 107 00:05:31,710 --> 00:05:34,498 your title may be Chief Financial Officer 108 00:05:34,498 --> 00:05:36,280 or Chief Staff Accountant. 109 00:05:36,280 --> 00:05:37,960 But what you're saying is that your mindset 110 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:42,498 needs to be that of a consultant, to better help the organization. 111 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:46,498 So how do you start changing that mindset so that you can better help? 112 00:05:46,580 --> 00:05:49,998 – Yes, well, first you have to decide who your client is. 113 00:05:49,998 --> 00:05:52,320 And this is a problem for a lot of people. 114 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,169 Most people, when you ask them, "Who's your client?" 115 00:05:54,169 --> 00:05:55,930 They point to their boss. 116 00:05:55,930 --> 00:06:02,164 That's the client or the boss's boss, the CEO or the CFO. 117 00:06:02,164 --> 00:06:04,580 That's who they really serve in the organization, 118 00:06:04,580 --> 00:06:08,900 and that's not an effective mindset to have. 119 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:11,831 Sure, those people play a critical role, 120 00:06:11,831 --> 00:06:14,997 but as bankers, really as bankers. 121 00:06:14,997 --> 00:06:19,180 People who provide the assets, the resources, 122 00:06:19,180 --> 00:06:23,497 the budgets, the tools, and supplies, and things you need to be able 123 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,831 to take your expertise and apply it to the core business. 124 00:06:27,831 --> 00:06:29,810 They want a return on those assets. 125 00:06:29,810 --> 00:06:31,819 So they're going to extend the resources 126 00:06:31,819 --> 00:06:33,870 for you to be able to use them 127 00:06:33,870 --> 00:06:35,831 in a productive way, for the organization. 128 00:06:35,831 --> 00:06:39,497 And, so, that begs the question —Who is the real client? 129 00:06:39,497 --> 00:06:41,009 Well, the places where you can have 130 00:06:41,009 --> 00:06:43,850 the biggest impact are in production, 131 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:47,330 or in those who are interfacing with the customer, 132 00:06:47,330 --> 00:06:49,540 or closest to the core work. 133 00:06:49,540 --> 00:06:51,600 That's really where the biggest impact can be had. 134 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,164 And, so, if we see those folks as the clients, 135 00:06:55,164 --> 00:06:59,509 and then we learn to interface differently 136 00:06:59,509 --> 00:07:01,210 and we interact with them. 137 00:07:01,210 --> 00:07:05,669 We are always in the mode of gathering data, gathering information, 138 00:07:05,669 --> 00:07:10,460 and trying to look for opportunities to help them. 139 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:13,690 Quite often, when things get tough, we focus on cost. 140 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:15,449 We think, "Well, how can we reduce costs?" 141 00:07:15,449 --> 00:07:17,997 And it's all about squeezing the bottom line 142 00:07:17,997 --> 00:07:22,479 instead of really focusing on profitability, 143 00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:23,497 not that they're not related. 144 00:07:23,497 --> 00:07:28,080 but, ultimately, how can we invest our time, 145 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,970 our existing resources, in a better way 146 00:07:30,970 --> 00:07:33,800 to get a better return on our assets? 147 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,729 And, so, people with financial expertise go into an organization 148 00:07:37,729 --> 00:07:40,163 and, sometimes, it's very easy to see waste, 149 00:07:40,163 --> 00:07:43,497 and redundancy, and opportunities 150 00:07:43,497 --> 00:07:46,539 to help people work better, more effectively, 151 00:07:46,539 --> 00:07:48,663 and make better business decisions. 152 00:07:48,663 --> 00:07:51,163 And one of the classic ways 153 00:07:51,163 --> 00:07:55,770 is when accountants and finance people go into an organization, 154 00:07:55,770 --> 00:08:00,997 and they start building the business literacy of the people who work there. 155 00:08:01,110 --> 00:08:02,979 So that they can make better decisions. 156 00:08:02,979 --> 00:08:06,330 Not just the leadership, I mean, that's certainly a place to start. 157 00:08:06,419 --> 00:08:09,496 But once the leadership has the big picture, 158 00:08:09,496 --> 00:08:13,996 what about all the people who are executing in the front lines? 159 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,659 If they don't have the big picture, 160 00:08:15,659 --> 00:08:18,090 they're making mistakes all the time. 161 00:08:18,090 --> 00:08:19,680 They're operating in a vacuum, 162 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:21,496 and they're doing the best they can with what they have. 163 00:08:21,496 --> 00:08:25,180 But often they have so little, they make a lot of bad decisions. 164 00:08:25,180 --> 00:08:27,389 Or they're not given the resources 165 00:08:27,389 --> 00:08:29,919 to be able to act in the moment to solve a problem, 166 00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:32,779 and the delays are costing the business a lot of money. 167 00:08:32,779 --> 00:08:38,163 So there are lots of opportunities for our support functions to go in 168 00:08:38,163 --> 00:08:40,750 and make a huge impact on the business, 169 00:08:40,750 --> 00:08:41,996 in the next couple of years. 170 00:08:42,330 --> 00:08:44,010 – Now there's one thing I wanted to touch on a little bit, 171 00:08:44,010 --> 00:08:47,000 as you talked about the real internal client. 172 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:51,649 Now that's something that I think a lot of people overlook. 173 00:08:51,649 --> 00:08:55,829 As many times we're always thinking, "Oh, how can I please my boss?" 174 00:08:55,829 --> 00:08:58,370 And looking at your boss as like the banker. 175 00:08:58,370 --> 00:09:00,163 The person who gives you all the resources you need, 176 00:09:00,163 --> 00:09:03,579 is something that I don't think many people speak about. 177 00:09:03,579 --> 00:09:07,829 How can leadership help the constituents under them 178 00:09:07,829 --> 00:09:09,980 understand, "Hey, I'm not your client. 179 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:13,329 Your client is our customer base is whoever we're looking at." 180 00:09:13,339 --> 00:09:16,496 How can they help them get that big picture in their head? 181 00:09:16,663 --> 00:09:20,663 – Yes, one way they can do that is to simply have the conversation. 182 00:09:20,779 --> 00:09:24,170 Sit down and talk, frankly, about what that role is, 183 00:09:24,170 --> 00:09:25,720 what that relationship is. 184 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,690 As a banker, if I'm extending assets to you 185 00:09:29,690 --> 00:09:31,110 to do something for the company. 186 00:09:31,110 --> 00:09:33,240 I'm expecting some kind of return on those assets. 187 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,040 So there may be some promises that we have about 188 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,339 how you're going to use what I give you in the organization. 189 00:09:39,339 --> 00:09:41,162 What you're going to do for us. 190 00:09:41,162 --> 00:09:43,810 How are you going to help the organization 191 00:09:43,810 --> 00:09:45,579 realize a benefit from these assets 192 00:09:45,579 --> 00:09:47,996 that I'm extending to you, as the banker? 193 00:09:47,996 --> 00:09:49,860 And that's a great conversation to have. 194 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:52,829 And, sometimes, you're not able to have that conversation 195 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:55,930 until folks go out into the core business 196 00:09:55,930 --> 00:09:59,996 and start learning what goes on closer to the customer, 197 00:09:59,996 --> 00:10:04,662 and the production areas, and see where some of the opportunities are. 198 00:10:04,662 --> 00:10:07,996 And, then, they see how they can apply their expertise more effectively. 199 00:10:07,996 --> 00:10:09,399 And, then, they can come back to the banker 200 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:14,360 and say, "I think I understand now what I can do for the organization." 201 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,160 So when I look at the resources you're giving me. 202 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,760 Here's what I need, more or less or whatever. 203 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:24,540 Here's what I need to be able to help 204 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:27,829 these people improve their performance." 205 00:10:27,829 --> 00:10:29,660 Or whatever it is. 206 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:33,995 So I make a promise, if you extend this amount of money to me to do, 207 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:37,720 for instance, a business literacy program in the business. 208 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:39,770 I'm confident that we can now help people 209 00:10:39,770 --> 00:10:42,889 make better decisions down on the front lines. 210 00:10:42,889 --> 00:10:45,040 That will have a profound impact 211 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,329 on our ability to produce with higher quality, 212 00:10:48,329 --> 00:10:50,220 and lower cycle times, and so on, 213 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:52,662 and that's all going to go to the bottom line. 214 00:10:52,662 --> 00:10:56,328 So what is it that I need? 215 00:10:56,328 --> 00:10:59,828 I'll make a commitment to you, to make that much of an improvement 216 00:10:59,959 --> 00:11:01,910 if you'll give me the resources to do it. 217 00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:04,828 And, likewise, it's the same thing, if I'm meeting with a client. 218 00:11:04,890 --> 00:11:07,910 So I've been doing consulting for a lot of years. 219 00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:12,400 But I was in house for many years before that. 220 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,850 And that's when this new idea developed, 221 00:11:15,850 --> 00:11:17,410 and started to have some conversations 222 00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:20,350 about what my role was inside the organization 223 00:11:20,350 --> 00:11:23,662 to those who we defined as my clients. 224 00:11:23,662 --> 00:11:26,970 And I recognized that I need to have conversations 225 00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:29,828 with my clients about what I can do for them. 226 00:11:29,828 --> 00:11:31,600 And work things out with them 227 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,328 so that they give me what I need to be able to help them. 228 00:11:35,339 --> 00:11:37,661 There may be some things I need, some resources. 229 00:11:37,661 --> 00:11:43,661 There may be some information, access to data, whatever it is. 230 00:11:43,661 --> 00:11:47,995 And if I ask you, as my client, if you'll give me those things, 231 00:11:47,995 --> 00:11:53,250 I'll come back with a plan that will help you with your business. 232 00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:55,639 So let's work out those arrangements 233 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:58,470 so that we know what I'm promising to you. 234 00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:01,328 And what you need to give me for me to fulfill that promise to you. 235 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,680 – Yes, as I'm thinking about this, 236 00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:08,661 employees are going to feel the competitive pressure. 237 00:12:08,661 --> 00:12:11,339 As you mentioned, CEOs are feeling the squeeze. 238 00:12:11,339 --> 00:12:12,780 They're going to have to tight squeeze. 239 00:12:12,780 --> 00:12:15,920 I'm sure we've all read about the beginning of 2023, 240 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,730 with what happened at Goldman Sachs. 241 00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:19,490 What can employees do, 242 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:21,860 as they need to capitalize on these competitive things 243 00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:24,494 and be able to stay on top of things? 244 00:12:24,494 --> 00:12:26,250 You've mentioned, a lot of that stuff. 245 00:12:26,250 --> 00:12:29,494 But I feel like there's more that they're going to need to capitalize on, 246 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,494 as the pressure continues to rise with the market way it is. 247 00:12:32,828 --> 00:12:35,328 – Absolutely, and part of that is that education, 248 00:12:35,328 --> 00:12:38,328 that business literacy process, understanding the big picture. 249 00:12:38,420 --> 00:12:40,880 And as a person on the front lines, 250 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,829 it's helpful for me to understand what business we're in. 251 00:12:43,829 --> 00:12:46,130 What the competitive pressures are. 252 00:12:46,130 --> 00:12:48,328 How do we stack up against the competition? 253 00:12:48,328 --> 00:12:51,220 And are we a big player, are we a small player? 254 00:12:51,220 --> 00:12:55,661 What are our strategic advantages and what are our disadvantages? 255 00:12:55,769 --> 00:12:58,269 What do we have to overcome to be better competitors? 256 00:12:58,269 --> 00:13:01,161 I mean, all those things are important, for me, to understand. 257 00:13:01,161 --> 00:13:04,209 Because when I do my work each day, 258 00:13:04,209 --> 00:13:07,089 hopefully, I'm contributing by looking for ways 259 00:13:07,089 --> 00:13:09,660 to improve our competitive position. 260 00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:11,680 I'm looking for ways that we can do things 261 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,760 more efficiently, more effectively. 262 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,550 We can streamline, we can cut out redundancies. 263 00:13:17,550 --> 00:13:21,661 We can find a breakthrough in being better able to serve the customer 264 00:13:21,661 --> 00:13:27,029 or deliver faster, and that sort of thing. 265 00:13:27,029 --> 00:13:29,120 We need to get our core employees 266 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,240 to work on building the business 267 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,920 and helping the business prepare for tough times, 268 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,327 and to help us to survive in it. 269 00:13:37,327 --> 00:13:39,827 And we're not going to do that if we think 270 00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:41,540 all the great ideas and all the great work 271 00:13:41,540 --> 00:13:42,660 is going to come from the leadership. 272 00:13:42,660 --> 00:13:44,010 It's just not going to happen. 273 00:13:44,010 --> 00:13:47,494 We need a strong, cohesive, interdependent, 274 00:13:47,494 --> 00:13:52,160 team of people all pulling together and looking for ways to work together 275 00:13:52,259 --> 00:13:54,070 to make these things happen. 276 00:13:54,070 --> 00:13:58,660 And our leaders, our front line leaders, our support functions, 277 00:13:58,660 --> 00:14:02,009 all play a critical role in making that happen. 278 00:14:02,009 --> 00:14:03,980 So that people have that orientation, 279 00:14:03,980 --> 00:14:07,339 and the orientation of serving each other. 280 00:14:07,339 --> 00:14:08,730 You talked about competing, 281 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:11,494 we're going to be competing in a tough market, we figure, 282 00:14:11,494 --> 00:14:12,899 in the next couple of years. 283 00:14:12,899 --> 00:14:16,993 Well, if it's going to get tough, where do we want competition to be? 284 00:14:16,993 --> 00:14:19,089 Do we want it to be inside the organization 285 00:14:19,089 --> 00:14:22,120 or do we want it to be us against other providers 286 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,580 of these goods and services? 287 00:14:24,580 --> 00:14:28,660 So let's stop competing internally for resources 288 00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:31,430 and let's start finding ways to serve each other. 289 00:14:31,430 --> 00:14:38,160 So that we optimize the resources we have and use them to their fullest. 290 00:14:38,279 --> 00:14:40,630 So that we're able to better compete, 291 00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:43,100 against those who we truly need to be competing against. 292 00:14:43,493 --> 00:14:46,160 How many organizations are operating 293 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,993 where people are fighting, having turf battles, 294 00:14:49,993 --> 00:14:55,160 and fighting over office space, or the copy machine, or the forklift, 295 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,680 or whatever it is that we're fighting over. 296 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,326 And, sometimes, even undermining each other 297 00:15:01,326 --> 00:15:03,160 for our own convenience? 298 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,493 I mean, how much does that cost the business? 299 00:15:05,493 --> 00:15:08,493 I mean, it's huge, it's absolutely huge. 300 00:15:08,493 --> 00:15:09,740 And, so, we have to stop doing that. 301 00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:13,820 We have to create a culture of commitment 302 00:15:13,820 --> 00:15:15,319 to the success of the whole. 303 00:15:15,326 --> 00:15:17,550 – Mh-hmm, and that's got to be really hard. 304 00:15:17,550 --> 00:15:22,009 When certain places there's that fight to get to the top, 305 00:15:22,009 --> 00:15:24,660 as opposed to let's help each other get to the top. 306 00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:28,279 And, I think, a lot of businesses don't have that atmosphere, 307 00:15:28,279 --> 00:15:31,240 but we need to help each other in order to succeed. 308 00:15:31,326 --> 00:15:33,326 – Right, that helps take all the egos out. 309 00:15:33,326 --> 00:15:35,639 And just say, "Look, we all play different roles. 310 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:39,160 We have different sets of responsibilities." 311 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,493 But when it comes down to it, we all need to choose accountability 312 00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:44,930 for the success of the whole business 313 00:15:44,930 --> 00:15:46,493 if we're going to make this work. 314 00:15:46,493 --> 00:15:52,159 And if we don't, we're undermining our ability to successfully compete 315 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:54,826 in the near term, for sure, probably, in the long term. 316 00:15:55,230 --> 00:15:58,819 – So when you're looking at creating that cohesive team. 317 00:15:58,819 --> 00:16:02,260 I think that word you just used, accountability is the key thing. 318 00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:04,030 How do you create that real accountability 319 00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:05,040 and what does that look like? 320 00:16:05,326 --> 00:16:07,790 – Yes, so often we talk about holding people accountable. 321 00:16:07,790 --> 00:16:10,440 We say if we need to get better performance, 322 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,720 more results, we need to hold people more accountable. 323 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,326 We need to get things more into control. 324 00:16:15,326 --> 00:16:16,826 And what that, generally, does is 325 00:16:16,826 --> 00:16:19,949 it creates an environment of micromanagement 326 00:16:19,949 --> 00:16:23,659 and compliance responses from employees. 327 00:16:23,659 --> 00:16:28,326 And I like to say it's pretty hard to really hold people accountable, 328 00:16:28,326 --> 00:16:30,389 in the sense that we hold them accountable 329 00:16:30,389 --> 00:16:33,326 and still enable them to be responsible. 330 00:16:33,326 --> 00:16:37,000 Because the minute we start taking charge of something. 331 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,930 We tell somebody, "I can't trust you to get the work done. 332 00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:41,910 So I'm going to check up on you. 333 00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:43,200 I'm going to follow up with you. 334 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,829 I'm going to make sure you get it done." 335 00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:48,992 The minute that we do that, we've taken responsibility for it. 336 00:16:48,992 --> 00:16:51,279 We've taken it away from the individual. 337 00:16:51,279 --> 00:16:54,492 Now they're just a pair of hands doing what we tell them to do. 338 00:16:54,492 --> 00:16:59,325 And we've taken away their sense of responsibility and commitment, 339 00:16:59,379 --> 00:17:01,449 and they're operating out of a sense of a need 340 00:17:01,449 --> 00:17:04,140 to comply to keep their jobs. 341 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:05,780 And there's a huge difference in performance 342 00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:09,825 between those who are operating just to comply and keep their jobs. 343 00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:13,140 Versus those who are, intrinsically, motivated 344 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:18,900 and openly choosing their own accountability to their teams, 345 00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:23,325 to their coworkers, to their leaders, and the organization, overall. 346 00:17:23,390 --> 00:17:27,830 So it's important for accountability to be shaped the right way. 347 00:17:27,830 --> 00:17:31,660 To where we orient people to the big picture. 348 00:17:31,660 --> 00:17:34,290 Here's what we all need to accomplish as a business. 349 00:17:34,290 --> 00:17:37,280 Here's how our team fits into that. 350 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,789 Here's how our team interfaces with other teams, 351 00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:45,658 to help us produce whatever it is we produce or deliver to the customer. 352 00:17:45,658 --> 00:17:48,158 And then inside of our team, 353 00:17:48,158 --> 00:17:51,890 let's make sure we're clear about what each person does 354 00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:55,150 and how it impacts everybody else on the team. 355 00:17:55,150 --> 00:17:57,220 And make some commitments to each other 356 00:17:57,220 --> 00:17:58,990 about how we're going to work. 357 00:17:58,990 --> 00:18:02,190 So that the team can work effectively, 358 00:18:02,190 --> 00:18:05,630 and find ways to improve the way that we get the workout. 359 00:18:05,630 --> 00:18:08,325 And then the next phase of that, then, is to take that team 360 00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:10,158 and say, "Okay, how do we now help 361 00:18:10,158 --> 00:18:12,750 those around us to do what they need to do?" 362 00:18:12,750 --> 00:18:16,160 We're interfacing with these other teams in the organization. 363 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,090 They have work they need to produce. 364 00:18:18,090 --> 00:18:20,919 What can we do to serve them and help them, 365 00:18:20,919 --> 00:18:22,970 so that they can do what they need to do? 366 00:18:22,970 --> 00:18:26,160 It's the same mentality we have to have with our customers. 367 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,090 What am I delivering to my customer? 368 00:18:28,090 --> 00:18:29,350 It's satisfying a need. 369 00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:33,120 My customer is trying to do something, they want something. 370 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:37,325 So how do I help them get what they need, that satisfies them 371 00:18:37,325 --> 00:18:39,440 by their standard, not by mine. 372 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,630 Internally, we have to do the same thing. 373 00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:43,658 As employees, working together as teams, 374 00:18:43,658 --> 00:18:46,658 interfacing with each other, it has to be the same mentality. 375 00:18:46,825 --> 00:18:48,820 – Yes, it really does. 376 00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:50,059 And one thing that I'm thinking about, 377 00:18:50,059 --> 00:18:54,090 as we talk about making sure that everybody sees the big picture. 378 00:18:54,090 --> 00:18:56,825 A lot of times it's hard to apply the big picture. 379 00:18:56,825 --> 00:18:58,559 If, let's say, you're a front line worker 380 00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:01,470 and you have a lot of activities you're doing, every single day. 381 00:19:01,470 --> 00:19:03,991 It's very hard to understand those activities, 382 00:19:03,991 --> 00:19:07,101 as becoming results to help the overall organization. 383 00:19:07,101 --> 00:19:08,491 To help the big picture. 384 00:19:08,491 --> 00:19:10,991 How do you bridge that gap? 385 00:19:10,991 --> 00:19:14,440 – I had a group of people I was working with, a finance group, 386 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,140 and we were doing this in the organization. 387 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:22,190 Trying to increase individual understanding of the overall business. 388 00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:23,510 And I remember the finance manager 389 00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:25,710 saying, "Yes, we did this in another company 390 00:19:25,710 --> 00:19:27,490 and we decided that everybody, 391 00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:30,324 to a certain level, needed to have the big picture. 392 00:19:30,324 --> 00:19:34,980 Those who are like janitorial staff and other people, 393 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:36,669 they didn't need to know, they didn't care. 394 00:19:36,669 --> 00:19:38,100 They weren't going to have an impact. 395 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:41,110 And I said, "Wait a minute, you can't pick and choose 396 00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:44,110 who is going to make the most impact, 397 00:19:44,110 --> 00:19:45,657 in any given moment in time." 398 00:19:45,657 --> 00:19:47,760 Everybody makes a contribution 399 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,650 and otherwise we wouldn't be paying for it. 400 00:19:50,650 --> 00:19:52,770 We're investing in people to do things that help us 401 00:19:52,770 --> 00:19:55,330 get done what we need to do for the customer. 402 00:19:55,330 --> 00:19:57,830 So everybody needs to understand the big picture, 403 00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:59,157 to make the right decisions. 404 00:19:59,157 --> 00:20:02,991 And, so, even if you're looking at the janitor makes decisions 405 00:20:02,991 --> 00:20:07,157 about how efficiently they use chemicals, for instance. 406 00:20:07,159 --> 00:20:09,710 Or how efficiently they do the work, 407 00:20:09,710 --> 00:20:13,350 and what they do to provide the environment 408 00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:16,324 such that it's ready for people to work, 409 00:20:16,324 --> 00:20:18,039 and perform, and that sort of thing. 410 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:20,750 I mean, whatever it is they do they can do it well, 411 00:20:20,750 --> 00:20:22,299 and they can have a sense of satisfaction 412 00:20:22,299 --> 00:20:23,990 that they're contributing to the whole. 413 00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:28,324 Everybody needs to be part of that, you can't exclude people. 414 00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:31,690 It's one organization, not a two-tiered system 415 00:20:31,690 --> 00:20:34,539 where you have the primary class 416 00:20:34,539 --> 00:20:36,657 and the secondary class, that doesn't work. 417 00:20:37,090 --> 00:20:41,157 – Yes, it's hard because our society looks at people that way. 418 00:20:41,157 --> 00:20:42,330 And you have to break that down 419 00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:43,570 when you get into an organization. 420 00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:46,380 – Yes, and, so, one of the things that works really well 421 00:20:46,380 --> 00:20:47,690 is to bring people together. 422 00:20:47,690 --> 00:20:50,490 I always find that when you bring a team together. 423 00:20:50,490 --> 00:20:52,840 And you say, "Okay, let's educate each other. 424 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,550 Let's talk about what each does in the organization." 425 00:20:56,550 --> 00:20:58,400 And a lot of times people say, "Well, that's obvious, 426 00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:59,650 we know what each other does." 427 00:20:59,650 --> 00:21:03,860 And I say, "No, everybody take just two or three minutes, 428 00:21:03,860 --> 00:21:07,890 highlight, here's what I do for, not the tasks I perform. 429 00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:12,850 Here's what I actually do in terms of output for the organization. 430 00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:16,000 Here's what I accomplish. 431 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,420 Here are the things that get in the way of that the most, 432 00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:20,500 that make my job difficult." 433 00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:23,657 And as people understand that the light bulbs start turning on. 434 00:21:23,657 --> 00:21:25,823 They go, "Oh, I could probably help you with that." 435 00:21:25,823 --> 00:21:27,950 "I could probably help you with that." 436 00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:29,500 And pretty soon they start talking about 437 00:21:29,500 --> 00:21:31,740 ways they can serve each other. 438 00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:35,460 And if we get them into that mindset in that activity, 439 00:21:35,460 --> 00:21:37,789 they start making commitments to each other. 440 00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:41,156 About how they're going to help each other in the coming months. 441 00:21:41,156 --> 00:21:43,140 And, then, we do follow-up conversations 442 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:44,809 and give each other feedback. 443 00:21:44,809 --> 00:21:46,880 We can start talking about how we're doing, 444 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,159 how much better we're doing, 445 00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:49,990 and where we still need work. 446 00:21:49,990 --> 00:21:52,480 And, then, we can start talking about opportunities 447 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,690 to create breakthroughs, 448 00:21:53,690 --> 00:21:57,490 as we start looking at the overall systems that we operate in, 449 00:21:57,490 --> 00:22:00,000 and identify the ones that are making 450 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,799 our work the most difficult. 451 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:06,360 And we identify where we might be able to streamline something, 452 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,370 or reduce steps, or simplify, or whatever. 453 00:22:09,370 --> 00:22:13,260 Do things concurrently, instead of doing one, 454 00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:16,656 and then waiting for the next, and waiting for the next. 455 00:22:16,656 --> 00:22:19,419 There are a lot of things that we can do. 456 00:22:19,419 --> 00:22:22,823 Once we get people having the education, 457 00:22:22,823 --> 00:22:25,070 it's called the business education, 458 00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:29,279 to understand the work that they're in and how it matters. 459 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:33,323 I use the example a lot, in sports, you look at sports players, 460 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,130 football, for instance, since we're in Super Bowl season. 461 00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:39,740 Everybody, on a sports team, 462 00:22:39,740 --> 00:22:45,960 is well aware of the competition and their competitive position. 463 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,630 The advantages and disadvantages each team has. 464 00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:50,230 Their strengths and weaknesses. 465 00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:51,230 They know every player. 466 00:22:51,230 --> 00:22:53,989 There are statistics all over the place, 467 00:22:53,989 --> 00:22:58,323 about what people are good at and what they're not so good at. 468 00:22:58,323 --> 00:23:01,400 And they use that information 469 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,322 to create a game plan to defeat the other team. 470 00:23:05,322 --> 00:23:06,679 And, then, during the game, 471 00:23:06,679 --> 00:23:10,130 there are all kinds of indicators that tell us how we're doing. 472 00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:12,340 So that we can make adjustments 473 00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:16,310 and look for ways to create a breakthrough, in the game, 474 00:23:16,310 --> 00:23:18,822 if we're behind or struggling, 475 00:23:18,822 --> 00:23:22,020 and we don't do that very well in business. 476 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:24,190 But Sports is a business, 477 00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:28,429 just as much as any other organization, for-profit organization. 478 00:23:28,429 --> 00:23:30,690 We're all in it to make money 479 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:34,270 and be able to meet the needs of the customer. 480 00:23:34,270 --> 00:23:39,880 So that we have the ability to remain viable in the marketplace. 481 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,040 So if we apply those same principles at work. 482 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,200 We find that we need to educate people about the game plan. 483 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,100 We need to help them understand what the competition is. 484 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:53,309 What's at stake each day, each month, each quarter, 485 00:23:53,309 --> 00:23:55,350 and what are the things that we need to accomplish. 486 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:58,570 And then how are we, at a tactical level, 487 00:23:58,570 --> 00:24:01,550 going to contribute so that we can succeed? 488 00:24:01,550 --> 00:24:02,822 – Yes. – Those are important 489 00:24:02,822 --> 00:24:06,140 conversations to have, and they're not often had in organizations. 490 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:07,600 Especially traditional organizations, 491 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,330 where at the top of the organization pyramid; 492 00:24:10,330 --> 00:24:12,970 all the knowledge, all the understanding 493 00:24:12,970 --> 00:24:16,230 of the big picture, the departments. 494 00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:18,210 How the systems, in the organization, 495 00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:20,322 work together to produce the product, 496 00:24:20,322 --> 00:24:22,780 and satisfy the customer, all those kinds of things. 497 00:24:22,780 --> 00:24:27,322 The authority to make decisions, they all tend to reside at the top, 498 00:24:27,322 --> 00:24:29,680 and then get delegated to lesser and lesser degrees 499 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,080 down through the organization. 500 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,822 So by the time you get to the people 501 00:24:32,822 --> 00:24:35,140 on the front lines, doing the work. 502 00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:36,681 Who have information, by the way, 503 00:24:36,681 --> 00:24:41,030 that nobody else has because they're doing the core work. 504 00:24:41,030 --> 00:24:42,830 They're interfacing with the customer. 505 00:24:42,830 --> 00:24:46,480 And they have to make decisions in the moment, all the time, 506 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,822 that have a huge impact on the business. 507 00:24:48,822 --> 00:24:51,429 And, yet, they're the least knowledgeable 508 00:24:51,429 --> 00:24:53,480 about the overall organization, 509 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,655 the impact their decisions are having. 510 00:24:55,655 --> 00:24:58,155 And, so, they have to make those decisions in a vacuum. 511 00:24:58,155 --> 00:24:59,549 And, quite often, they don't have permission 512 00:24:59,549 --> 00:25:01,155 to make a lot of decisions. 513 00:25:01,155 --> 00:25:03,988 And, so, the decisions don't get made at all. 514 00:25:03,988 --> 00:25:08,330 So that's by default, whatever happens, happens. 515 00:25:08,330 --> 00:25:09,809 Or there are huge delays 516 00:25:09,809 --> 00:25:12,950 while they try to get permission to do something. 517 00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:14,840 Or they feed information up the line, 518 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,321 and hope somebody somewhere does something about it. 519 00:25:17,380 --> 00:25:20,559 That's costing businesses an incredible amount of money. 520 00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:23,988 Which is why when we work with people, they're astounded 521 00:25:23,988 --> 00:25:29,850 when they get a 50% improvement in performance from a team. 522 00:25:29,850 --> 00:25:31,040 How is that possible? 523 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,321 Is it because there's so much slack in the system and you just don't see? 524 00:25:34,340 --> 00:25:37,060 But when you find that people are working differently, 525 00:25:37,060 --> 00:25:41,019 more effectively together, the results are astounding. 526 00:25:41,155 --> 00:25:43,750 – Yes, that is so true. 527 00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:46,290 So this has been a wonderful conversation, Kevin, 528 00:25:46,290 --> 00:25:48,520 and I just wanted to ask one last question. 529 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,919 In light of the squeeze that is coming with the market, 530 00:25:51,919 --> 00:25:55,690 and restructuring of organizations that are coming. 531 00:25:55,690 --> 00:25:57,321 What advice would you give to somebody 532 00:25:57,321 --> 00:25:58,821 on the other side of a restructuring? 533 00:25:58,821 --> 00:26:00,169 And you're still at the organization, 534 00:26:00,169 --> 00:26:03,080 and suddenly you have the responsibility 535 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,488 of three people now because two other people were let go. 536 00:26:06,488 --> 00:26:08,370 What advice would you give to that person, 537 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:11,988 as you're trying to look in things, in the aftermath of that. 538 00:26:12,321 --> 00:26:14,490 – Well, the first thing I would do is I'd pull my team together 539 00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:18,299 and I'd say, "Okay, let's regroup. 540 00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:19,988 We've all been through a lot. 541 00:26:19,988 --> 00:26:25,487 There's a lot of emotion that we're experiencing, loss of teammates, 542 00:26:25,487 --> 00:26:28,800 increased workload, increased expectations. 543 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,010 It's a tough spot to be in." 544 00:26:31,010 --> 00:26:33,899 And to be authentic about it, 545 00:26:33,899 --> 00:26:38,654 not to paint a rosy picture of everything, and spin the message, 546 00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:40,840 and pretend like everything is great. 547 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,987 And nobody has experienced anything challenging, recently. 548 00:26:43,987 --> 00:26:44,987 But to be authentic about it 549 00:26:44,987 --> 00:26:47,950 and say, "Look, we've gone through some tough times. 550 00:26:47,950 --> 00:26:50,154 That's a lot of turmoil to deal with. 551 00:26:50,154 --> 00:26:53,600 And I know that you're, probably, feeling a lot like I am about it. 552 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,410 You have an empty feeling, maybe, about the people who are gone. 553 00:26:56,410 --> 00:26:58,909 You feel concerned for them. 554 00:26:58,909 --> 00:27:02,020 You have a little bit of anxiety about our own future, 555 00:27:02,020 --> 00:27:03,780 and how things are going to work out for us. 556 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:06,690 This is all natural, and I'm not immune 557 00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:08,920 from it any more than you are. 558 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,987 I mean, we all have to deal with those things. 559 00:27:11,987 --> 00:27:14,799 And the reality is we have to figure out 560 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:16,700 how to make things work going forward, 561 00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:17,700 so this doesn't happen again. 562 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:23,654 We need to really figure out how we can produce, at a higher level. 563 00:27:23,654 --> 00:27:28,190 And not, necessarily, pushing ourselves to work crazy fast 564 00:27:28,190 --> 00:27:30,399 or ridiculous numbers of hours. 565 00:27:30,399 --> 00:27:34,500 But we have to think smart, so let's pull together. 566 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,059 Let's analyze the work that we do. 567 00:27:37,059 --> 00:27:38,350 Let's look at the processes 568 00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:39,991 and the systems that we're dealing with. 569 00:27:39,991 --> 00:27:42,487 Let's map some of those and let's identify 570 00:27:42,487 --> 00:27:44,710 what kinds of things are getting in the way, 571 00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:48,200 and let's see if we can't tackle those and create a breakthrough. 572 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,460 Either in profitability cycle time, customer response, 573 00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:56,487 or quality of product or service. 574 00:27:56,487 --> 00:27:59,320 Let's go through and figure out where we can create a breakthrough 575 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,487 in the work that we do. 576 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:02,850 So that we can have a positive contribution 577 00:28:02,850 --> 00:28:05,559 to the business, to help us be more competitive. 578 00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:07,487 Because the marketplace is unforgiving 579 00:28:07,487 --> 00:28:11,153 and they've just spanked us, and we don't want that to happen again. 580 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,140 We want to be competitors in that marketplace. 581 00:28:14,140 --> 00:28:15,250 And if we're smart about it, 582 00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:18,320 this is an asset that we have that we can leverage, 583 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,653 is our way of working together 584 00:28:20,653 --> 00:28:22,820 that can push us ahead of our competition. 585 00:28:22,890 --> 00:28:25,480 And we can, actually, maybe benefit 586 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,830 from this difficulty because maybe we can pull ahead of them. 587 00:28:30,830 --> 00:28:32,399 Because we've done some smart things 588 00:28:32,399 --> 00:28:34,010 in the face of these challenges." 589 00:28:34,010 --> 00:28:35,010 That's what I do. 590 00:28:35,010 --> 00:28:36,929 I think people need to just pull together 591 00:28:36,929 --> 00:28:40,440 and face the reality of what's happened, 592 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,490 and the challenges associated with it, 593 00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:44,590 and all that it does to us internally. 594 00:28:44,590 --> 00:28:46,890 And to say, "Okay, what are we going to choose 595 00:28:46,890 --> 00:28:48,620 to do now going forward?" 596 00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:49,700 And that's what a leader does. 597 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:52,890 A leader says, "Look, I'm no different than you. 598 00:28:52,890 --> 00:28:54,779 I'm not going to be phony about it. 599 00:28:54,779 --> 00:28:57,653 I'm going to tell the truth, this is stressful for me. 600 00:28:57,653 --> 00:29:02,320 And I'm going to choose to do the best I can for us to be competitive. 601 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,240 And I'm inviting you to work with me 602 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,150 for us to all to work together, and do this as a team." 603 00:29:08,486 --> 00:29:11,153 – Yes, I agree, and I think a lot of people 604 00:29:11,153 --> 00:29:13,486 are going to need to hear that, as we go forward. 605 00:29:13,486 --> 00:29:15,986 Thank you so much, Kevin, for coming on the podcast today. 606 00:29:15,986 --> 00:29:18,153 I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. 607 00:29:18,153 --> 00:29:19,153 – Thanks for having me. 608 00:29:19,153 --> 00:29:21,153 < Outro > 609 00:29:21,153 --> 00:29:24,819 – This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast, providing you 610 00:29:24,819 --> 00:29:26,986 with the latest perspectives of thought leaders 611 00:29:26,986 --> 00:29:28,819 from the accounting and finance profession. 612 00:29:28,819 --> 00:29:31,486 If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in, 613 00:29:31,486 --> 00:29:33,819 for more relevant accounting and finance education, 614 00:29:33,819 --> 00:29:40,153 visit IMA's website at www.imanet.org.