WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en-GB

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

00:00:10.490 --> 00:00:11.660
Silvercore podcast.

00:00:13.280 --> 00:00:15.140
Join me as I discuss
matters related to

00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:17.180
hunting, fishing,
and outdoor pursuits

00:00:17.450 --> 00:00:19.400
with the people in
businesses that comprise.

00:00:19.455 --> 00:00:21.494
The community, if
you're a new to

00:00:21.494 --> 00:00:23.714
Silvercore, be sure to
check out our website,

00:00:24.824 --> 00:00:27.765
www.Silvercore.ca where
you can learn more about

00:00:27.765 --> 00:00:30.345
courses, services, and
products that we offer

00:00:30.735 --> 00:00:32.714
as well as how you can
join The Silvercore Club,

00:00:32.955 --> 00:00:35.114
which includes 10 million
in North America, wide

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liability insurance, to
ensure you are properly

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covered during your
outdoor adventures.

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This is the last week to
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All right, I'm sitting
down with Jason

00:01:05.785 --> 00:01:08.305
Budd, who is backed
by popular demand

00:01:08.305 --> 00:01:10.525
from The Silvercore
Podcast listeners.

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Jason, you know, this,
some of our listeners

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might not, but you know,
we put the podcast in

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the audio format for
people to listen to

00:01:20.790 --> 00:01:22.860
while they're driving or
doing whatever they can

00:01:22.860 --> 00:01:23.610
play in the background.

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But I also put a version
on YouTube and you

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have the distinction of
having our most viewed

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Silvercore Podcast
with at current count.

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I think we're about
23,000 views on the

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last episode we did.

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So congratulations,
Jason.

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Well, you know, Trav,
um, I was getting

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constant text messages.

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Every time we moved
up a few thousand,

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I think you're more
excited than I was.

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Yeah.

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I was pretty excited.

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Yeah.

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I, I don't know.

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Um, the feedback
we're getting on, it

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was fantastic too.

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I mean, people were
listening through with

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a critical ear and I'm
sure the subject matter

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probably somehow hit
in YouTube a little bit

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because we're talking
about SAS selection

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and the, uh, the time
in the british army.

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And, uh, talking
about that afterwards,

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you had some other
pretty cool stories.

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And then thank you very
much for agreeing to

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come on back and, uh,
and share some of these.

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One of the, um, questions
that actually came

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up was about wearing
your own footwear

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while doing selection.

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And some guy's
like, no, that's BS.

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You can't wear your
own footwear while

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you're doing selection.

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So yeah.

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You know, you you've
talked about that one

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aspect of don't anything
I went on selection with

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was, um, I think the
Bergen and, and my socks

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that were issued, right.

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That's right.

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Maybe the water bottles,
but one thing that I,

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stood out for me from the
start with the British

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army was that we actually
could purchase our own

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gear and a lot of aspects
because a lot of the,

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the British equipment
was robust and meant

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to last, which meant
it was heavy, right?

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So a lot of times we
could supplement that

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with our own day socks,
um, our own altering our

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wedding or belt kit or
alter even our Bergens

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and things like that.

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So, I mean, that was
quite common within

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that I appreciated.

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Uh, with going, you
know, within the British

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temporary, in my regimen,
I know other regiments

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are more stricter than
others, but it was

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very common for me in
the Highlanders and

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then forced squats.

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A lot of what we bought,
we could use in the

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field where I remember
being, you know, like

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in, in the Canadian
army where that wasn't

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necessarily promoted.

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A little bit different.

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Yeah.

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A little bit different,
you know, and you know,

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not, you know, I have
friends PPCLI and people,

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you know, that's the,
uh, Princess Patricia

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Canadian Light Infantry.

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After I have friends in
the RCR Royal Canadian

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Regiment, and those two
regiments are completely

00:03:52.495 --> 00:03:54.894
different in from hearing
the stories of what

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they were allowed to
use, issued, non issued.

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And that brings up a,
a point drive, um, that

00:04:02.305 --> 00:04:04.195
a lot of my friends and
family from the last

00:04:04.195 --> 00:04:05.665
podcast that didn't
have the military

00:04:05.665 --> 00:04:07.765
environment so that we
use too many acronyms.

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So we're going to
have to try and, and,

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and work around that.

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So when I say PPLI, I'm
like, Princess Patricia

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Canadian Light Infantry.

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Right.

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So I think we'll just
be mindful of that.

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As we work on through.

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Work on through it, yeah.

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Well, you know, off
air here, we're talking

00:04:23.195 --> 00:04:25.835
about a couple pretty
cool stories and I

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think there's a way
we can segue into it.

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If we talk about senior
brecon, so you were

00:04:32.854 --> 00:04:36.245
on a platoon Sergeant
battle course that'd be

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senior brecon is that?

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Yeah, that's correct.

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We talked about in the
last podcast where I

00:04:42.335 --> 00:04:44.970
did my junior brecon,
which is this extra

00:04:44.970 --> 00:04:46.080
commanders battle course.

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And I also did senior
brecon, but it didn't

00:04:49.470 --> 00:04:51.900
really get into it
too much, but both of

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those courses are our
career courses for

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the British entry.

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And you can specialize.

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You know, you can go to
mortars, you can go to,

00:05:02.280 --> 00:05:06.150
uh, anti-tank snipers
recky and they all have

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their section commander
courses as well.

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But the gateway for
promotion and advancement

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in the, in the infantry
really is the rifle

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company junior brecon,
senior junior brecon.

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Okay.

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It is streamlined for
your career advancement.

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Okay.

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And it's actually
the quicker way of

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going through it.

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So a lot of the guys
that would go to the

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support companies, which
is where the anti-tank

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and mortars are, the
guys would come back into

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the rifle stream to do
their career courses.

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Interesting.

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Back in, just like if
you went to the DEP,

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I said, I went to the
Depot, which is the

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recruit training school.

00:05:43.310 --> 00:05:45.609
ITC Catterick, infantry
training's Catterick,

00:05:45.630 --> 00:05:49.020
where that is, where
all the British recruits

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for the infantry
are trained, that is

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part of your career
advancement, really?

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Because you need those
external write-ups, um,

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reports on yourself.

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But in order to get
there, you have to

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do junior brecon.

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So if you  did section
commander  course, and

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let's say anti-tank,
that won't allow you

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to teach at the depot.

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Got it.

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Right.

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So it's the same for
us with senior brecon.

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So I think it's about
20 it's 20 years

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old now, but there
was a YouTube series

00:06:16.785 --> 00:06:17.895
called battle stripes.

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Okay.

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And it's the old way
or the old course

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for senior brecon.

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I've seen that one.

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Yeah.

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So that, that was.

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A lot of that,
that course was

00:06:29.265 --> 00:06:32.445
just like realistic
and geared towards

00:06:32.445 --> 00:06:34.965
like survival, like
surviving the course.

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Um, the emphasis
definitely changed by

00:06:37.935 --> 00:06:40.515
the time I was rolling
around juniors and senior

00:06:40.515 --> 00:06:42.585
brecon where they were
really trying to educate

00:06:42.585 --> 00:06:46.305
us and get that critical
thinking involved, but

00:06:46.604 --> 00:06:50.190
still had the resilience
and the robustness of the

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core principles of, of
that, of that training.

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Right.

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Okay.

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So yeah, senior
brecon that's based in

00:06:56.789 --> 00:06:59.130
Brecon obviously, we
call it, I, infantry

00:06:59.150 --> 00:07:00.219
training center brecon.

00:07:00.615 --> 00:07:03.315
And they run numerous
elements of this

00:07:03.345 --> 00:07:06.045
career leadership
aspect of the training.

00:07:06.045 --> 00:07:07.875
They run, as we talked
about the section

00:07:07.875 --> 00:07:10.335
commanders battle
course, and they also

00:07:10.335 --> 00:07:12.945
do the skill at arms
course prior to that.

00:07:13.215 --> 00:07:16.905
So you do seven weeks
of basically being

00:07:16.905 --> 00:07:19.455
able to teach every
single weapon system

00:07:19.515 --> 00:07:20.295
in the British army.

00:07:20.355 --> 00:07:23.265
So the subject matter
experts of that, and

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then they move onto
their tactics phase,

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which is junior brecon,
believe it's eight weeks.

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Okay.

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And then, then they go
back to the battalions

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and they end up
usually in the depots

00:07:31.625 --> 00:07:32.795
or wherever teaching.

00:07:33.485 --> 00:07:37.055
And then, um, usually
after that that's a

00:07:37.055 --> 00:07:38.985
two year posting the
take to the depots.

00:07:39.005 --> 00:07:41.615
Then they're going to
do another, within the

00:07:41.615 --> 00:07:43.925
next two years, they
usually end up going

00:07:43.925 --> 00:07:45.405
to senior brecon.

00:07:45.635 --> 00:07:47.284
So about anywhere
from two to four years

00:07:47.284 --> 00:07:49.325
after you can end
up back down there.

00:07:50.700 --> 00:07:52.980
But what's interesting,
uh, which was new for

00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:55.440
me, in order to go on
these courses, junior

00:07:55.440 --> 00:07:57.990
brecon and senior brecon
yet to do a pre-course

00:07:57.990 --> 00:07:58.740
in your battalion.

00:07:59.040 --> 00:07:59.340
Okay.

00:07:59.760 --> 00:08:01.710
And the pre-courses I
fell in a lot of times

00:08:01.710 --> 00:08:04.050
were more demanding
than the actual courses.

00:08:04.050 --> 00:08:06.480
So it'd be like two
weeks, like for example,

00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.390
for junior brecon you
would be on this two week

00:08:09.390 --> 00:08:11.760
course, you'd be taught
how to teach lessons.

00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:14.280
You'd be taught how to
deliver orders at the

00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:16.560
section commander level
and bumping one up to

00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.580
platoon Sergeant level.

00:08:18.210 --> 00:08:21.785
And, um, fitness,
a lot of fitness.

00:08:21.815 --> 00:08:22.235
Sure.

00:08:22.295 --> 00:08:24.695
Being evaluated, and
then you're evaluated.

00:08:24.695 --> 00:08:27.995
So you could be on junior
brecon or the pre-course

00:08:28.145 --> 00:08:32.375
for juniors or seniors
with maybe 20 other guys.

00:08:32.675 --> 00:08:33.575
And you might
be competing

00:08:33.575 --> 00:08:34.415
for three spots.

00:08:35.075 --> 00:08:35.375
Okay.

00:08:35.435 --> 00:08:36.935
And it's simply a matrix.

00:08:36.935 --> 00:08:39.365
They basically
score everything

00:08:39.875 --> 00:08:41.645
and they have the
recommendations of who

00:08:41.645 --> 00:08:43.025
the top candidates are.

00:08:43.475 --> 00:08:46.245
And then usually those
are the ones that get

00:08:46.245 --> 00:08:47.055
picked to go down.

00:08:47.775 --> 00:08:49.665
So it's a competition
from that point on,

00:08:49.665 --> 00:08:52.305
in the battalion for
your advancement to

00:08:52.305 --> 00:08:53.235
keep moving forward.

00:08:53.235 --> 00:08:53.445
Right.

00:08:53.445 --> 00:08:55.845
So you're competing
for those two to three

00:08:55.845 --> 00:08:58.785
spots each regiment
has to go down there.

00:08:58.975 --> 00:08:59.895
Sounds fun actually.

00:09:00.755 --> 00:09:02.885
It's, actually can
be stressful, Trav.

00:09:03.035 --> 00:09:07.575
So , you know, physically
demanding, but what's

00:09:07.575 --> 00:09:10.095
interesting was, um, I
was actually deployed to

00:09:10.095 --> 00:09:15.705
Iraq with my battalion
and a lot of times what

00:09:15.705 --> 00:09:18.255
happens is that when
you're on deployments,

00:09:18.285 --> 00:09:21.315
they still expect the
career advancements to

00:09:21.315 --> 00:09:22.185
keep moving forward.

00:09:22.905 --> 00:09:25.185
So they'll send guys back
to going career courses.

00:09:25.185 --> 00:09:28.605
So I was up in Al
Amarah which is the

00:09:28.605 --> 00:09:30.885
British sector of Iraq.

00:09:31.215 --> 00:09:33.275
There's bazer al
amarah and Al Amarah

00:09:33.825 --> 00:09:35.775
it's kind of like
the British sector of

00:09:35.775 --> 00:09:37.125
the Marines Fallujah.

00:09:37.635 --> 00:09:38.955
It's kind of like where
a lot of the fighting

00:09:38.955 --> 00:09:42.715
wise and a really
intense place to be, but.

00:09:43.605 --> 00:09:45.645
Uh, a group of us,
we had two companies

00:09:45.645 --> 00:09:47.265
up there, delta
company, bravo company,

00:09:47.805 --> 00:09:48.885
elements of that.

00:09:49.335 --> 00:09:51.345
The senior section
commanders were sent

00:09:51.855 --> 00:09:54.135
to Cyprus, the dura
pre-course with the

00:09:54.135 --> 00:09:56.295
Royal Highland Fusiliers,
which was based there.

00:09:56.975 --> 00:09:57.605
They were running it.

00:09:57.635 --> 00:09:59.555
They weren't going to
run one in, in Iraq,

00:09:59.555 --> 00:10:00.785
obviously kind of work.

00:10:01.475 --> 00:10:03.725
So there was a group of
us that we were flowing

00:10:03.785 --> 00:10:07.625
out of Al Amarah down to
Bazrah Bazrah to Cyprus.

00:10:08.195 --> 00:10:10.655
And then we did our two
week pre-course with the

00:10:10.655 --> 00:10:11.775
Royal Highland Fusiliers.

00:10:11.795 --> 00:10:12.065
Okay.

00:10:12.660 --> 00:10:15.330
And Cyprus is interesting
and editing phase it's,

00:10:15.750 --> 00:10:18.660
it's a lot of elevation
gain where they train

00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.800
brockie, lot of, uh,
prickly things, uh,

00:10:22.890 --> 00:10:26.760
pretty robust terrain
to be training in, but

00:10:26.790 --> 00:10:28.800
I was successful on
the pre-course and then

00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:30.430
I was selected to go
down to senior brecon.

00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:32.940
So, uh, the guys that
weren't successful,

00:10:32.940 --> 00:10:34.610
they went back to her
and then the rest of

00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:38.560
us were that were, were
sent down to do juniors

00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:39.350
and senior brecon.

00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:39.770
Okay.

00:10:39.950 --> 00:10:41.610
So that's how I ended
up in senior brecon.

00:10:42.344 --> 00:10:44.564
This time around I,
when I did junior

00:10:44.564 --> 00:10:46.515
brecon was, I just
came out of Kosovo.

00:10:47.084 --> 00:10:48.255
So it was a winter tour.

00:10:48.435 --> 00:10:49.964
Uh, we did a
lot of walking.

00:10:50.564 --> 00:10:52.225
Uh, the food was
a lot better being

00:10:52.225 --> 00:10:53.925
on tour believe it
or not then when,

00:10:53.935 --> 00:10:54.854
actually in battalion.

00:10:54.854 --> 00:10:57.795
Yeah, because, uh, the
budget was higher and

00:10:57.795 --> 00:10:59.385
it had that kind of
like a lot of natal set

00:10:59.385 --> 00:11:03.375
meals versus when I was,
you know, back in the

00:11:03.375 --> 00:11:06.074
barracks, we weren't
knowing as you know,

00:11:06.314 --> 00:11:07.005
eating the best food.

00:11:07.175 --> 00:11:09.094
No, you guys weren't, you
don't have a reputation.

00:11:09.604 --> 00:11:10.555
We talked about
that didn't we.

00:11:10.555 --> 00:11:11.414
We do, we did.

00:11:12.094 --> 00:11:15.015
So that's one thing
I did suffer a lot on

00:11:15.015 --> 00:11:18.255
was, um, my fitness
for junior brecon.

00:11:18.345 --> 00:11:18.645
Okay.

00:11:18.795 --> 00:11:20.385
The soldier
aspect, wasn't it.

00:11:20.415 --> 00:11:22.454
But we would be doing
the two mile assessment,

00:11:22.755 --> 00:11:24.615
five mile assessment,
eight mile assessment,

00:11:25.334 --> 00:11:26.265
three mile assessment.

00:11:26.265 --> 00:11:28.845
These are all with
like 35 to 55 pound,

00:11:29.535 --> 00:11:32.084
um, gear at the end of
each training cycle.

00:11:32.084 --> 00:11:33.735
Every Friday we'd have
to do an assessments.

00:11:33.745 --> 00:11:34.334
You're tired.

00:11:34.965 --> 00:11:37.455
You'd been up all night
doing your drills or

00:11:37.455 --> 00:11:39.435
your, your patrols.

00:11:39.495 --> 00:11:39.645
Right.

00:11:39.645 --> 00:11:41.175
And then they expect
you to do a two mile

00:11:41.175 --> 00:11:44.895
run with 35 pounds
in 21 minutes, right.

00:11:44.945 --> 00:11:46.035
Through the training
area, right.

00:11:46.065 --> 00:11:46.695
For example.

00:11:47.985 --> 00:11:53.055
So I did struggle on that
aspect of it on junior

00:11:53.055 --> 00:11:55.815
brecon but by the time
I hit senior brecon I

00:11:55.845 --> 00:11:57.405
had a different mindset.

00:11:57.415 --> 00:12:00.915
I had still had
my SAS fitness.

00:12:02.175 --> 00:12:04.515
I also knew what
was to expect.

00:12:04.605 --> 00:12:07.725
So that's one thing
that I did do on

00:12:07.725 --> 00:12:09.975
junior brecon a lot was
Friday, Saturday nights.

00:12:10.185 --> 00:12:12.255
I'd always stay
local with the guys

00:12:12.645 --> 00:12:16.125
and we'd party a
lot, which doesn't

00:12:16.125 --> 00:12:16.855
help your fitness.

00:12:16.855 --> 00:12:18.105
It does not does it.

00:12:18.105 --> 00:12:20.325
Help your fitness
at all Trav, right.

00:12:20.355 --> 00:12:22.245
As we know, and as you
get older, it's harder

00:12:22.245 --> 00:12:23.265
to process that, right.

00:12:24.165 --> 00:12:26.745
But on senior brecon I
would do all my homework.

00:12:26.835 --> 00:12:28.815
Would we be knocked
off Friday afternoon?

00:12:28.845 --> 00:12:30.705
I would do all my
homework, all my laundry,

00:12:30.735 --> 00:12:31.785
all my administration.

00:12:32.445 --> 00:12:34.335
There is a kebab
shop in brecon that

00:12:34.335 --> 00:12:36.585
is my favorite one
in the entire UK.

00:12:37.155 --> 00:12:41.865
I'd get a kebab hit back
to my barracks and I'd go

00:12:41.865 --> 00:12:45.345
to bed and in the morning
I'd get up and I'd go

00:12:45.345 --> 00:12:46.605
run the SAS routes.

00:12:47.235 --> 00:12:47.985
Up in the beacons.

00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:48.225
Right.

00:12:48.795 --> 00:12:49.815
And that'd be,
be knocked.

00:12:49.845 --> 00:12:51.975
I'd be, I'd say
I'd be knocked off.

00:12:51.975 --> 00:12:54.375
I mean, I'd be done my
training myself by, by

00:12:54.375 --> 00:12:57.765
noon and I would shower.

00:12:58.275 --> 00:13:00.945
And then my girlfriend
at the time stayed in

00:13:00.945 --> 00:13:02.445
Tewkesbury, which is
just down the road.

00:13:02.505 --> 00:13:04.965
So then I would pick
her up, go for dinner,

00:13:04.995 --> 00:13:07.515
stay over, have Sunday
dinner with her folks.

00:13:07.515 --> 00:13:10.215
And then I'd head back to
brecon Sunday afternoon.

00:13:10.695 --> 00:13:14.295
And I would be in
bed 8:30, 9 o'clock,

00:13:14.415 --> 00:13:16.065
ready to go for the
week's activities.

00:13:16.724 --> 00:13:18.765
And compared to a lot
of the guys, like the

00:13:19.125 --> 00:13:21.074
jocks or the Scots
would drive all the

00:13:21.074 --> 00:13:21.704
way up to Scotland.

00:13:22.214 --> 00:13:24.045
So they're rolling
in at like midnight,

00:13:24.464 --> 00:13:26.115
Sunday night, trying
to get things done.

00:13:26.115 --> 00:13:27.765
And then there, so
I had a different,

00:13:28.905 --> 00:13:30.375
different approach
this time around.

00:13:30.915 --> 00:13:34.035
So I was really enjoying,
I didn't really enjoy

00:13:34.214 --> 00:13:36.314
juniors as much, but I
was really having a good

00:13:36.314 --> 00:13:38.084
time on senior brecon
at the time, right.

00:13:38.084 --> 00:13:40.334
So that's why I
think a lot of my,

00:13:40.984 --> 00:13:43.005
my, my approach
was different paid

00:13:43.005 --> 00:13:44.849
dividends on the course.

00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:49.079
Um, the first part of
it is called LFTT, live

00:13:49.079 --> 00:13:50.250
fire tactical trainer.

00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:50.550
Okay.

00:13:50.579 --> 00:13:51.479
Seven weeks long.

00:13:52.949 --> 00:13:55.500
And that has to do
with, I mentioned the

00:13:55.500 --> 00:13:57.630
junior and they do the
skill at arms course

00:13:57.630 --> 00:13:58.920
first seven weeks right.

00:13:59.030 --> 00:14:03.089
This course is geared
towards planning, running

00:14:03.089 --> 00:14:05.849
and conducting live
fire movement ranges,

00:14:06.569 --> 00:14:07.439
up to company level.

00:14:08.040 --> 00:14:09.660
And this is
geared towards the

00:14:09.660 --> 00:14:10.650
platoon commanders.

00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:14.280
And the senior NCO's
you do know a lot of, we

00:14:14.280 --> 00:14:16.920
call them templates, and
traces for, you know,

00:14:16.920 --> 00:14:18.990
where the we're going
to set your ranges up.

00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.510
And then there's a
lot of work to it.

00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:21.810
Yeah.

00:14:22.290 --> 00:14:23.190
I was glad it was done.

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:25.590
And then moving
into the tactics.

00:14:25.590 --> 00:14:29.090
So the tactics is where
we call it senior brecon

00:14:29.430 --> 00:14:33.570
and that's eight weeks
long and it's taught

00:14:33.570 --> 00:14:35.685
by color sergeants.

00:14:35.895 --> 00:14:36.255
Okay.

00:14:36.314 --> 00:14:37.305
So we call them colors.

00:14:37.365 --> 00:14:37.665
Yeah.

00:14:37.844 --> 00:14:42.704
So it's not a derogatory
term for people of color.

00:14:42.704 --> 00:14:45.285
It's basically a
rank that that was a

00:14:45.285 --> 00:14:47.854
senior NCO that was
there to protect.

00:14:48.375 --> 00:14:49.875
The colors are the flag.

00:14:49.905 --> 00:14:50.265
Right?

00:14:50.444 --> 00:14:50.714
Right.

00:14:50.805 --> 00:14:51.405
So we call them.

00:14:51.464 --> 00:14:53.655
So it's a senior NCO,
we call color sergeants.

00:14:54.135 --> 00:14:55.775
So relating it to
Canada, for example,

00:14:55.795 --> 00:14:59.084
would be a rank between
their warrant and, and

00:14:59.084 --> 00:14:59.895
master warrant officer.

00:14:59.984 --> 00:15:00.224
Okay.

00:15:00.314 --> 00:15:02.505
So Brent actually has
a rank fork, right?

00:15:02.895 --> 00:15:04.334
And traditionally, those
color sergeants are

00:15:04.334 --> 00:15:06.584
either a CQ mess, company
quartermaster Sergeant.

00:15:06.584 --> 00:15:08.474
So they look after the
gear and the logistics

00:15:08.474 --> 00:15:08.984
of the company.

00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:12.420
But in the infantry as
well, there are also the

00:15:12.420 --> 00:15:16.510
senior instructors, so
they train junior brecon

00:15:16.540 --> 00:15:20.190
senior brecon platoon
commanders course, and

00:15:20.280 --> 00:15:21.630
other courses like that.

00:15:22.140 --> 00:15:24.300
And it's really important
in your advancement

00:15:24.300 --> 00:15:26.520
that like I went to
the depl as a section

00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:28.350
commander, I needed
that external writeup.

00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.400
Two years.

00:15:30.150 --> 00:15:32.100
If I continue in the
British army, I would

00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:35.329
have had to take, or
should have taken, um,

00:15:35.959 --> 00:15:38.990
a two year as a colour
sergeant instructor.

00:15:39.140 --> 00:15:41.719
And actually I was
recommended to come back

00:15:41.719 --> 00:15:43.640
and work on the platoon
commanders course.

00:15:43.670 --> 00:15:44.089
Okay.

00:15:44.329 --> 00:15:46.130
Because I had a really
good disposition

00:15:46.130 --> 00:15:48.199
of, um, working with
the officers and.

00:15:48.390 --> 00:15:49.050
People liked ya.

00:15:49.579 --> 00:15:50.335
You're a likable guy.

00:15:50.395 --> 00:15:50.615
Yeah.

00:15:50.615 --> 00:15:51.055
Likable guy.

00:15:51.235 --> 00:15:53.365
So I think I had interest
to go work and I think

00:15:53.365 --> 00:15:55.585
it's really important
to actually focus on

00:15:55.585 --> 00:15:56.365
our platoon commanders.

00:15:56.365 --> 00:15:58.665
Cause they're actually
the leaders of, of

00:15:58.815 --> 00:16:02.665
our platoons and I,
as a sergeant, I took

00:16:02.665 --> 00:16:06.445
it upon myself that
I had to mentor my

00:16:06.445 --> 00:16:06.995
platoon commander.

00:16:07.045 --> 00:16:08.545
I didn't have to tell
them what to do, my

00:16:08.545 --> 00:16:10.825
job was to mentor
him and develop him.

00:16:11.515 --> 00:16:13.105
And I thought that
was really important.

00:16:13.525 --> 00:16:16.285
But one thing that I had
a hard time mentoring

00:16:16.495 --> 00:16:18.165
was that if I had
an arrogant officer.

00:16:18.645 --> 00:16:18.915
Right.

00:16:18.915 --> 00:16:20.490
It was really hard
to mentor and I'm

00:16:20.490 --> 00:16:21.060
just like, yeah.

00:16:22.050 --> 00:16:22.800
You know, carry on.

00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:24.180
And you let them
fall on their face.

00:16:24.380 --> 00:16:27.689
But, but I, there are
few and far between, like

00:16:27.689 --> 00:16:30.790
I had some phenomenal
officer's as platoon

00:16:30.810 --> 00:16:33.569
commanders, bosses,
right in my time.

00:16:34.050 --> 00:16:35.550
I guess the ego can
kind of get away

00:16:35.550 --> 00:16:36.270
on some people.

00:16:36.465 --> 00:16:36.795
Yeah.

00:16:37.095 --> 00:16:38.865
At some point and
then it's, uh.

00:16:39.015 --> 00:16:41.725
I mean, we all
have a bit of ego.

00:16:41.835 --> 00:16:42.045
Yeah.

00:16:42.075 --> 00:16:42.285
Right.

00:16:43.115 --> 00:16:45.965
I think as a section
commander we're expected

00:16:45.965 --> 00:16:48.245
how that ego, but platoon
Sergeant definitely,

00:16:48.245 --> 00:16:50.495
you need to have that
ego, but I think it's,

00:16:50.585 --> 00:16:53.465
it's, it's healthy, but
then it's also important

00:16:53.465 --> 00:16:55.025
to be humble right.

00:16:55.025 --> 00:16:59.135
And maybe that ego is the
confidence that we have

00:16:59.135 --> 00:17:01.595
in our professionalism
and ability right.

00:17:01.955 --> 00:17:04.380
And I'm not taking
anything away from the

00:17:04.380 --> 00:17:06.569
non infantry, because
they will judge us

00:17:06.569 --> 00:17:07.950
and just think, you
know, the infantry

00:17:07.950 --> 00:17:08.520
is this and that.

00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:12.960
But we also had that chip
on our shoulder that we

00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.660
were the infantry or the
bayonette or the spear

00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:17.430
of, of the army right.

00:17:17.970 --> 00:17:20.400
So, um, and I was
proud of that.

00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:22.800
Like I remember on senior
year senior brecon, we're

00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:25.170
getting we're on the
parade square and we're

00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:26.160
loading our packs up.

00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:28.079
And honestly, by the
time you had all your

00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:32.625
gear and your Bergens,
probably 75 pounds

00:17:32.625 --> 00:17:33.645
to 80 pounds easily.

00:17:33.675 --> 00:17:35.005
Like I couldn't
pick it up Trav.

00:17:35.025 --> 00:17:37.905
I had to sit on the
ground, put my bergen on,

00:17:38.385 --> 00:17:40.695
roll over to stand up and
then walk to the truck.

00:17:41.235 --> 00:17:43.295
And then they have
these all alarms

00:17:43.295 --> 00:17:44.385
skill at arms courses.

00:17:44.385 --> 00:17:46.335
So, you know how they had
the infantry guys going

00:17:46.335 --> 00:17:47.055
on the skill of arms?

00:17:47.055 --> 00:17:48.195
Well, they have
alarms, so the core

00:17:48.195 --> 00:17:51.075
guys were going to
R do these courses

00:17:51.075 --> 00:17:51.735
so they can teach.

00:17:51.735 --> 00:17:54.585
And I can remember this
Sergeant, maybe he was,

00:17:54.675 --> 00:17:59.940
um, an engineer or maybe
he was like, REME which

00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:03.450
is the role electronic
mechanical engineers.

00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:06.390
And he was going by and
he just stopped and we're

00:18:06.390 --> 00:18:08.700
helping ourselves get
up and he's shaking his

00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:10.290
head and goes, guys, I
don't know how you do it.

00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:12.330
And I'm like, I
don't know how I do

00:18:12.330 --> 00:18:14.160
it either because we
actually left that

00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.820
point and we did a 16
kilometre insertion tab.

00:18:18.419 --> 00:18:19.290
W which is a March.

00:18:19.290 --> 00:18:21.389
We, it tab is a tactical
advanced battle.

00:18:21.419 --> 00:18:21.629
Right.

00:18:21.870 --> 00:18:24.899
Across an impact area
and impact areas where

00:18:24.899 --> 00:18:27.000
the artillery and
mortars land and it's

00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:28.080
grass and it's wet.

00:18:28.110 --> 00:18:30.419
And we're walking
through this with 75, 80

00:18:30.419 --> 00:18:31.740
pound packs on, right.

00:18:32.429 --> 00:18:33.000
Wow.

00:18:33.879 --> 00:18:35.169
You know, so that
was kinda like,

00:18:35.439 --> 00:18:37.000
I'm a, I don't know
how I do it either.

00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:37.780
And you know that the.

00:18:37.780 --> 00:18:38.590
But you just do it.

00:18:38.860 --> 00:18:41.050
Well, the joke is, you
know, now people are

00:18:41.050 --> 00:18:42.820
dealing with VAC, which
is Veterans Affairs,

00:18:42.820 --> 00:18:45.159
Canada, or wherever,
and they're trying

00:18:45.159 --> 00:18:47.949
to relate maybe knee
or ankle injury isn't

00:18:47.949 --> 00:18:49.209
related to our service.

00:18:49.209 --> 00:18:51.730
And it's like, the meme
is showing like this

00:18:51.730 --> 00:18:54.250
infantry men with an
80 pound pack, right?

00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:54.610
Yeah.

00:18:55.055 --> 00:18:55.325
Yeah.

00:18:55.505 --> 00:18:55.685
Yeah.

00:18:55.685 --> 00:18:56.735
I think it's going
to have an effect

00:18:56.735 --> 00:18:58.465
somehow later on in
the life, for sure.

00:18:58.505 --> 00:18:58.805
Sure.

00:18:58.915 --> 00:18:59.275
Yeah.

00:18:59.305 --> 00:19:00.775
Like I'm deaf as
a doornail, right?

00:19:01.915 --> 00:19:02.855
As we know.

00:19:03.205 --> 00:19:04.345
Yeah, I cracked
your audio here

00:19:04.345 --> 00:19:04.855
at the beginning.

00:19:05.325 --> 00:19:06.595
Oh Trav, I got
hearing aids.

00:19:07.495 --> 00:19:08.185
Oh, sorry mate.

00:19:10.050 --> 00:19:12.410
Yeah, I think we were
talking about ego and I

00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.880
think just to summarize
that, I mean, part of

00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.760
it is, is healthy, but I
think within moderation

00:19:17.850 --> 00:19:20.430
to be that humble,
quiet professional, I

00:19:20.430 --> 00:19:24.120
think goes a long way
for, for me in how I

00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:27.150
respond and responding
to others right.

00:19:27.390 --> 00:19:27.840
Yeah.

00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.010
And learning as well.

00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:29.340
Yeah.

00:19:29.850 --> 00:19:30.120
Yeah.

00:19:30.650 --> 00:19:32.790
I do think it's
important though, to

00:19:32.790 --> 00:19:36.330
have, you know, like
the section commanders

00:19:36.330 --> 00:19:38.159
and platoon sergeants
to have the confidence.

00:19:38.159 --> 00:19:40.169
So I think a lot
of people mistake

00:19:40.570 --> 00:19:41.790
ego for confidence.

00:19:42.360 --> 00:19:43.830
And I think maybe that's
the connection we're

00:19:43.830 --> 00:19:47.310
missing is that you're
confident in your ability

00:19:47.310 --> 00:19:50.930
and your skills and,
and, uh, your trade and,

00:19:50.930 --> 00:19:51.690
and your leadership.

00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:52.680
And I think
that's important.

00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:53.820
And a lot of
times that can get

00:19:54.750 --> 00:19:55.990
mixed up with ego.

00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:58.810
So I think maybe
that's you know.

00:19:59.390 --> 00:20:00.710
That's a good
perspective.

00:20:00.740 --> 00:20:03.830
And I guess confidence
to the point of not

00:20:03.830 --> 00:20:06.020
accepting any other
options or outside

00:20:06.020 --> 00:20:08.030
opinions or reasonable
persuasion, that's

00:20:08.030 --> 00:20:10.590
probably when it
turns into ego.

00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:14.140
You know, for sure Trav,
and we can, we've seen

00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:15.610
that a lot and we've
talked about a lot of

00:20:15.610 --> 00:20:18.790
that, what we've seen on
social media and people

00:20:19.060 --> 00:20:19.990
with their experiences.

00:20:19.990 --> 00:20:24.190
But, um, you know, it,
it, this, this isn't

00:20:24.190 --> 00:20:26.530
new and for me, and this
actually came to light,

00:20:26.530 --> 00:20:30.250
like when I did come back
to Canada, I, I, I was

00:20:30.250 --> 00:20:31.630
applying for the RCMP.

00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:34.500
And I was applying in
the fire service and

00:20:34.650 --> 00:20:36.540
people say, you know,
with the RCMP is like,

00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:37.710
why are you going to
the fire servers was the

00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:39.750
number one part of my
resettlement training.

00:20:39.750 --> 00:20:40.680
They actually
covered a lot of

00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:41.550
the training costs.

00:20:42.030 --> 00:20:45.630
So I did that, but I
remember the RCMP saying

00:20:45.630 --> 00:20:46.930
like, why are you in
the fireproof test?

00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:48.450
And I said, well, I need
a career when I come

00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:51.300
back, what happens if you
do for me, then I need

00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:52.230
to keep moving forward.

00:20:52.230 --> 00:20:53.400
And he's like, Oh yeah,
that's a fair one.

00:20:53.975 --> 00:20:55.025
But that did come up.

00:20:55.025 --> 00:20:56.885
Like I had, like a
lot of my confidential

00:20:56.885 --> 00:20:59.655
reports were really,
um, positive and, and,

00:20:59.665 --> 00:21:02.015
and showed me after
boots that I achieved.

00:21:02.585 --> 00:21:05.765
A lot of my references
indicated, you know,

00:21:05.765 --> 00:21:08.075
great leadership
and skills.

00:21:08.075 --> 00:21:11.485
And, but they kind of
looked at that with ego.

00:21:12.025 --> 00:21:12.265
Right.

00:21:12.285 --> 00:21:14.745
And I had to explain to
some of my references

00:21:14.745 --> 00:21:17.265
is to say, well, it's
very confident in his

00:21:17.265 --> 00:21:19.765
ability and skills is
different than ego,

00:21:19.785 --> 00:21:21.255
but I don't think they
could relate that.

00:21:21.675 --> 00:21:22.395
So it was hard.

00:21:22.665 --> 00:21:23.745
It was a hard sell.

00:21:23.915 --> 00:21:25.595
Well, it's a different
background too, and this

00:21:25.595 --> 00:21:26.645
is a different skill set.

00:21:26.675 --> 00:21:28.475
And so when he, when
he comes across, when

00:21:28.475 --> 00:21:32.805
somebody looks at that,
um, I guess in some

00:21:32.805 --> 00:21:34.965
ways, and I'm not saying
that people looking at

00:21:34.965 --> 00:21:36.975
that we're a number two
person, but a number

00:21:36.975 --> 00:21:40.605
two person can look at a
number one person and be

00:21:40.605 --> 00:21:44.325
intimidated and attribute
confidence to ego.

00:21:44.825 --> 00:21:47.584
I know where you're
going with this Trav, eh.

00:21:48.185 --> 00:21:49.745
You're talking about
the recruiting teams.

00:21:49.745 --> 00:21:50.165
I get it.

00:21:50.764 --> 00:21:51.305
Yeah.

00:21:51.335 --> 00:21:52.085
Let me, well.

00:21:52.125 --> 00:21:53.645
I'll tread lightly
on that one.

00:21:53.825 --> 00:21:55.774
You know, Trav,
um, and I agree.

00:21:55.889 --> 00:21:57.719
You know, they, they look
for like-minded people

00:21:57.719 --> 00:21:59.219
and then long story
short, I, they deferred

00:21:59.219 --> 00:22:00.480
me for a year and they
said, we're going to

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.159
defer you because we
think you need more time

00:22:02.159 --> 00:22:04.229
to adjust coming back.

00:22:04.320 --> 00:22:06.479
And, um, you know,
we find maybe

00:22:06.479 --> 00:22:08.189
your approaches to
military right now.

00:22:08.760 --> 00:22:10.320
And then the next phone
call was Vancouver

00:22:10.320 --> 00:22:11.370
fire hire, hiring me.

00:22:11.370 --> 00:22:14.820
So, um, and I,
I'm very thankful.

00:22:14.820 --> 00:22:16.260
I believe our
journeys are the

00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:17.729
way they, they go.

00:22:17.820 --> 00:22:20.820
Um, when our, when
the RCMP team reached

00:22:20.820 --> 00:22:22.409
out to me in a year,
instead of I still

00:22:22.479 --> 00:22:24.229
just go to the Depot,
I said, no, thank you.

00:22:24.229 --> 00:22:26.415
I found a good career
choice for me, which

00:22:26.685 --> 00:22:29.385
actually allowed me to
move into the outdoor

00:22:29.385 --> 00:22:33.014
field, which I love so
much and therapy and work

00:22:33.014 --> 00:22:36.195
toward being a mountain
guide and maybe looking

00:22:36.195 --> 00:22:38.235
at some adventure therapy
programs down the road.

00:22:39.095 --> 00:22:40.084
That'd be fantastic.

00:22:40.175 --> 00:22:43.865
I had, I had a, um, I
thought the other day

00:22:43.865 --> 00:22:46.830
of all things Trav I
was making a I tikka

00:22:46.830 --> 00:22:50.130
masala, homemade naan
bread, nice salad,

00:22:50.580 --> 00:22:53.220
making some cheesecake,
a little bit of toppings

00:22:53.220 --> 00:22:53.850
and whipped cream.

00:22:53.850 --> 00:22:57.300
And I'm like, man, one
of the best things a

00:22:57.300 --> 00:22:59.160
fire service taught
me was how to cook.

00:22:59.760 --> 00:23:01.770
And I go, had I gone
to the RCMP I probably

00:23:01.770 --> 00:23:03.030
be making craft
dinner right now.

00:23:03.030 --> 00:23:04.020
That's right,
peanut butter and

00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:04.940
jelly, craft dinner.

00:23:05.060 --> 00:23:05.990
I don't know, maybe not.

00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:06.660
Maybe not.

00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:08.310
But I was just like, I
mean, that's something

00:23:08.310 --> 00:23:10.665
that I, you know,
even in Afghanistan,

00:23:10.665 --> 00:23:13.245
I, I will put up one
of the pictures was

00:23:13.245 --> 00:23:15.524
that, you know, we were
on hard rations for

00:23:15.524 --> 00:23:16.455
seven, eight months.

00:23:17.534 --> 00:23:19.065
I can, after a month
I couldn't do it.

00:23:19.065 --> 00:23:21.165
So we were buying
potatoes, onions,

00:23:21.165 --> 00:23:23.264
and the locals oil,
we're making fries.

00:23:23.745 --> 00:23:25.935
We were buying flour,
making pancakes.

00:23:25.935 --> 00:23:27.465
We were doing anything
we could to supplement

00:23:27.465 --> 00:23:28.245
our, our food.

00:23:28.815 --> 00:23:29.355
And they're out.

00:23:29.385 --> 00:23:31.425
There's one picture of
me cooking, like spam

00:23:31.425 --> 00:23:34.294
onions and potatoes
over a mess tin.

00:23:34.475 --> 00:23:35.615
Hey, spams not bad.

00:23:35.705 --> 00:23:38.375
I was diehard against
spam until I went

00:23:38.375 --> 00:23:41.314
to Hawaii and they
have a spam musubi

00:23:41.314 --> 00:23:41.915
as they call them.

00:23:42.064 --> 00:23:44.824
And it's actually
pretty good.

00:23:45.034 --> 00:23:46.895
They do, they deep fry
it up in the sauce and

00:23:46.895 --> 00:23:49.264
put rice, but that's a
little bit off topic.

00:23:49.495 --> 00:23:51.355
Well, I mean, I mean
the Brits have their

00:23:51.355 --> 00:23:53.814
corn beef and hash,
which was horrible.

00:23:54.205 --> 00:23:55.375
Well, that reminds
me of cat food.

00:23:55.405 --> 00:23:57.245
Not that I know cat
food tastes like Trav,

00:23:57.245 --> 00:23:59.125
but it was, because
that's why we were

00:23:59.125 --> 00:24:00.145
supplemented our meals.

00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.890
You know, but yeah.

00:24:01.890 --> 00:24:06.030
So coming back to senior
brecon the tactics phase

00:24:06.030 --> 00:24:07.350
is seven weeks long.

00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:07.680
Yeah.

00:24:08.070 --> 00:24:10.410
And because I was in
that training cycle, I

00:24:10.410 --> 00:24:14.430
was in, we have to do
a, we call it so that

00:24:14.430 --> 00:24:17.190
we have the SAS special
air service to British

00:24:17.190 --> 00:24:20.070
special forces fan
dance, which is that 24

00:24:20.070 --> 00:24:23.130
kilometer over the Brecon
beacons down the Roman

00:24:23.130 --> 00:24:25.590
road, back over, you
have four hours to do it.

00:24:26.340 --> 00:24:28.320
Well, there's also a
senior brecon fan dance.

00:24:29.340 --> 00:24:31.020
And it's around the
same distance, slightly

00:24:31.020 --> 00:24:31.620
different route.

00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.490
And that was a
very important

00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:37.620
assessment for people.

00:24:37.830 --> 00:24:40.170
And simply it's also an
assessment in physical,

00:24:40.170 --> 00:24:43.650
a bit ability, but
you also, for the

00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.080
potential leaders to be
in a leadership role.

00:24:46.170 --> 00:24:47.890
And I remember one of
the colour sergeants

00:24:47.910 --> 00:24:50.700
from my regiment, Tony
Raulson, big shout

00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:51.600
out to Tony Ralston.

00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.640
So late entry major
Nell's done really

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.200
well, but he was one
of my first platoon

00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:57.630
sergeants and mentors
in Highlanders.

00:24:58.020 --> 00:24:59.550
He was our colour
Sergeant down there.

00:25:00.105 --> 00:25:02.865
Not my personally, but
he was in my, my company,

00:25:02.865 --> 00:25:05.505
senior guy, and he said,
Jason, you got to get

00:25:05.505 --> 00:25:06.375
in a leadership role.

00:25:07.065 --> 00:25:08.175
And as luck would
have it, I was in

00:25:08.175 --> 00:25:08.805
leadership role.

00:25:08.805 --> 00:25:11.535
I ended up being 51
mortar men, number two.

00:25:11.565 --> 00:25:13.665
So I had a satchel,
the mortar satchel I'm

00:25:13.665 --> 00:25:17.500
like, how am I going to
excel here really hard

00:25:17.530 --> 00:25:19.120
because they'd have
the platoon commander

00:25:19.120 --> 00:25:20.860
appointment, platoon
Sergeant appointment,

00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.350
the, uh, section matter
appointments to icees.

00:25:23.350 --> 00:25:24.040
I'm not in leadership.

00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:25.510
Well, I'm just getting
assessed on my fitness

00:25:26.110 --> 00:25:28.150
and I think the
weights at 55 pounds.

00:25:28.270 --> 00:25:28.510
Okay.

00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:31.060
We've ordered gear
for this and we set

00:25:31.060 --> 00:25:33.700
off and I, and I'm
the platoon commander.

00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:35.380
What's interesting
about seniors is that

00:25:35.530 --> 00:25:38.834
even though it's for
the infantry, within

00:25:38.925 --> 00:25:41.895
the British army, the
SF go on it as well.

00:25:41.895 --> 00:25:43.995
So there'll be guys
from the SAS on it,

00:25:43.995 --> 00:25:45.044
Pathfinders on it.

00:25:45.584 --> 00:25:47.054
So the platoon
commander was allowed

00:25:47.054 --> 00:25:48.615
from Hereford, one
of the SAS slots.

00:25:49.725 --> 00:25:53.534
And, um, he had a guy
assigned to him as

00:25:53.534 --> 00:25:54.344
the platoon signaler.

00:25:54.344 --> 00:25:56.604
So he had his 55
pounds plus the platoon

00:25:56.625 --> 00:25:58.935
radio does every
radio that he's got

00:25:59.475 --> 00:26:02.385
and within 500 meters
of setting off this

00:26:02.565 --> 00:26:03.615
platoon sigler drops.

00:26:04.545 --> 00:26:04.905
Okay.

00:26:05.355 --> 00:26:06.705
Uh, he just
couldn't do it.

00:26:06.735 --> 00:26:07.035
Yeah.

00:26:07.305 --> 00:26:10.605
So I run over and I
grabbed the radio and

00:26:10.605 --> 00:26:11.445
I throw it on my pack.

00:26:11.475 --> 00:26:12.165
I'm like I got it.

00:26:12.615 --> 00:26:14.655
So I still have my
51 kit, the mortar

00:26:14.665 --> 00:26:16.635
kit, and I've got
the radio and I'm on

00:26:16.905 --> 00:26:19.845
with, with the platoon
commander SAS slot.

00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:24.600
And off we go and I just
stay with him and we

00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:25.560
start climbing the fence.

00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:28.290
He had an up there
and numerous times I

00:26:28.290 --> 00:26:30.150
had guys, Hey, Jason,
I can get the radio.

00:26:30.150 --> 00:26:31.710
No, I got it, I
got it, I got it.

00:26:31.770 --> 00:26:34.260
I just stayed on the
radio, stayed with me

00:26:34.320 --> 00:26:35.850
and I just stayed up with
platoon commander and

00:26:35.850 --> 00:26:38.160
we both knew could, we'd
been up there so much.

00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.600
We know the routes
and we're just leading

00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:42.220
both him and I are
navigating the platoon

00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.170
through the checkpoints.

00:26:44.265 --> 00:26:47.265
And then about halfway
through you end up having

00:26:47.265 --> 00:26:49.995
to go up this three
kilometre, like you've

00:26:49.995 --> 00:26:51.375
come down the penny fan.

00:26:51.465 --> 00:26:51.735
Yeah.

00:26:52.085 --> 00:26:53.835
You crossed over and
I don't know the name

00:26:53.835 --> 00:26:56.455
of it, but it's like
three to four kilometres

00:26:56.475 --> 00:26:57.225
straight uphill.

00:26:57.675 --> 00:27:00.015
And they introduce
the staff, introduce

00:27:00.015 --> 00:27:00.525
a stretcher.

00:27:00.825 --> 00:27:02.415
I believe the stretcher
is 300 pounds.

00:27:02.475 --> 00:27:02.775
Okay.

00:27:02.835 --> 00:27:05.060
So it's a stretcher with
tank tread on it, tank

00:27:05.060 --> 00:27:06.590
track to get 300 pounds.

00:27:07.460 --> 00:27:08.870
So that's part of it.

00:27:08.870 --> 00:27:10.790
Now you need to get,
the platoon needs to

00:27:10.790 --> 00:27:13.010
get this 300 pound
plus all the other

00:27:13.010 --> 00:27:14.060
gear up this, right.

00:27:14.210 --> 00:27:14.420
Yeah.

00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.690
And, um, we also had some
other platoon weapons.

00:27:17.690 --> 00:27:20.090
We had, uh, uh,
the general purpose

00:27:20.090 --> 00:27:23.400
machine gun in Canada
the C6, UK GPMG.

00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:26.460
We also had the light
machine gun weapons.

00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:29.410
So in UK it's a minimi,
Canada  it's a C9.

00:27:30.060 --> 00:27:31.200
The 51's  in there.

00:27:31.980 --> 00:27:34.890
So the platoon gets
a stretcher and the

00:27:34.890 --> 00:27:38.010
platoon commander goes
to music, Jason, don't

00:27:38.010 --> 00:27:39.360
get on the stretcher,
you got the radio.

00:27:39.360 --> 00:27:39.930
I'm like, okay.

00:27:40.905 --> 00:27:42.945
So that's fair because
I've had the radio

00:27:42.945 --> 00:27:43.485
the whole time.

00:27:44.295 --> 00:27:46.515
And as the platoon
starts, moving up, guys

00:27:46.515 --> 00:27:48.285
are dropping off and
the color sergeants

00:27:48.285 --> 00:27:50.505
yelling, no weapon
systems get left behind.

00:27:50.505 --> 00:27:51.885
They move forward
with the stretcher.

00:27:52.785 --> 00:27:54.735
So I looked back, one of
the section commanders

00:27:54.735 --> 00:28:00.170
has two rifles and
somebody has a the the,

00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:02.060
minimi or C9, extra now.

00:28:02.330 --> 00:28:04.070
Because there's guys
fall back, they can't

00:28:04.070 --> 00:28:05.480
keep up the weapons.

00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:06.440
You got to keep
coming forward.

00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:10.050
So I started taking,
like, I took a C a C9

00:28:10.050 --> 00:28:11.530
or minimi off one of
the section commanders.

00:28:11.530 --> 00:28:13.790
I took a rifle, I think
ended up with the 51.

00:28:14.270 --> 00:28:16.670
So I had, uh, I had
a minimi, my rifle,

00:28:16.670 --> 00:28:17.990
another rifle and the 51.

00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:18.200
Yeah.

00:28:18.690 --> 00:28:21.450
And I'm doing this job
because I had still had

00:28:21.450 --> 00:28:23.280
this SAS fitness and
I'm, and I'm training

00:28:23.280 --> 00:28:25.139
on the, on the, on
my weekends for it.

00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:28.889
And now I'm actually
like, uh, well, we

00:28:28.889 --> 00:28:30.300
can't use his name
and you'll be, you'll

00:28:30.300 --> 00:28:30.930
beep that out eh.

00:28:30.930 --> 00:28:31.260
Yeah.

00:28:31.260 --> 00:28:32.080
I'll beep it out.

00:28:32.800 --> 00:28:34.680
So, so the platoon
commander he

00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:35.610
jumps on, right.

00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:37.770
And now I'm actually
leading the platoon

00:28:37.770 --> 00:28:40.500
up and there's one of
these, one of the, the,

00:28:40.540 --> 00:28:42.810
the lead colour Sergeant
in my platoon was from

00:28:42.810 --> 00:28:46.310
one para and he yells
up and he's like, Budd!

00:28:46.310 --> 00:28:47.850
And I go, yes, colour.

00:28:47.850 --> 00:28:49.110
He goes, do you
want any more gear?

00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:50.020
I go, I'm good colour.

00:28:50.070 --> 00:28:50.340
Right.

00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:55.020
So I go up, I lead
us up and we, when we

00:28:55.020 --> 00:28:59.055
level off, we can see
the checkpoint and it's

00:28:59.055 --> 00:29:00.465
about 500 metres away.

00:29:00.585 --> 00:29:02.325
And the boss platoon
commander, it goes,

00:29:02.325 --> 00:29:03.645
Jase, go check us in.

00:29:03.795 --> 00:29:04.755
So we'll just
roll through.

00:29:04.755 --> 00:29:08.295
So I ran, still got all
the gear, I ran, checked

00:29:08.295 --> 00:29:11.535
us in, got us a signed
in to that checkpoint,

00:29:11.745 --> 00:29:12.465
got the new grid.

00:29:12.465 --> 00:29:15.045
We were going, gave it
to the boss and off we

00:29:15.045 --> 00:29:16.875
went and we finished it.

00:29:17.325 --> 00:29:21.285
So I actually got, they
get a grade for it.

00:29:21.945 --> 00:29:23.535
I got it.

00:29:23.535 --> 00:29:25.155
They usually, they
don't grade, like

00:29:25.155 --> 00:29:27.105
as an appointment,
they don't grade

00:29:27.105 --> 00:29:28.875
you, they just grade
you on your fitness.

00:29:28.905 --> 00:29:29.175
Sure.

00:29:29.475 --> 00:29:31.695
But I got a
grade, an A grade.

00:29:32.025 --> 00:29:32.445
Okay.

00:29:32.505 --> 00:29:34.395
We're doing the fan
dance, which is rare.

00:29:34.425 --> 00:29:35.925
Usually they just
say pass or fail.

00:29:36.015 --> 00:29:37.545
If you weren't in a
platoon commander,

00:29:38.055 --> 00:29:39.795
platoon Sergeant
role and ended up

00:29:39.825 --> 00:29:40.485
getting an A grade.

00:29:40.485 --> 00:29:41.295
So that was a rarity.

00:29:41.295 --> 00:29:44.145
I got an A grade for my
fitness and leadership.

00:29:44.445 --> 00:29:44.775
Sure.

00:29:44.805 --> 00:29:45.345
Within that.

00:29:45.345 --> 00:29:47.265
So that was on
the senior fan.

00:29:48.225 --> 00:29:49.725
So pretty emotional, but.

00:29:50.115 --> 00:29:51.465
Yeah, it'd be a heck
of a lot of work.

00:29:51.555 --> 00:29:55.034
The, you know, we
were talking about the

00:29:55.034 --> 00:29:57.705
training that you did
in senior brecon and

00:29:58.815 --> 00:30:01.185
how regimented it was
and how proper it was

00:30:01.185 --> 00:30:04.755
and the advice that you
got from Robbie Gilmour

00:30:05.325 --> 00:30:05.675
yeah.

00:30:07.054 --> 00:30:09.274
So I guess leading
into this Trav was

00:30:09.274 --> 00:30:11.975
that all the ranges
in the UK were booked

00:30:12.004 --> 00:30:14.284
because at the time
when I was on seniors,

00:30:14.284 --> 00:30:18.475
I believe 2007, January.

00:30:18.554 --> 00:30:21.735
So they run courses three
times a year, January,

00:30:23.054 --> 00:30:25.215
March, and then July
or something, right.

00:30:25.215 --> 00:30:27.284
So I, luck would
have it here.

00:30:27.284 --> 00:30:30.105
I am again, in January
on whales, right?

00:30:30.135 --> 00:30:30.344
Yeah.

00:30:30.735 --> 00:30:35.264
Um, but all the ranges
are booked because UK is

00:30:35.264 --> 00:30:36.405
in Iraq and Afghanistan.

00:30:36.405 --> 00:30:37.514
So that takes priority.

00:30:38.294 --> 00:30:41.325
So what was happening
was, there were taking

00:30:41.325 --> 00:30:43.365
the final exercise of
seniors in the platoon

00:30:43.365 --> 00:30:44.955
commaders  battle
course and taking us to

00:30:44.955 --> 00:30:46.665
either Malawi or Kenya.

00:30:46.965 --> 00:30:47.235
Okay.

00:30:47.385 --> 00:30:49.365
So our final exercise
is four weeks long

00:30:49.875 --> 00:30:51.764
in the bush, so
it's kind of cool.

00:30:52.425 --> 00:30:54.745
Considering you could
go to brecon or you end

00:30:54.764 --> 00:30:55.665
up in Malawi, Africa.

00:30:55.695 --> 00:30:55.935
Yeah.

00:30:56.535 --> 00:30:59.235
So prior to us going
to Malawi Africa,

00:30:59.235 --> 00:31:01.275
they brought in a
subject matter expert.

00:31:01.425 --> 00:31:02.355
The company
commander did.

00:31:02.475 --> 00:31:02.775
Right.

00:31:03.254 --> 00:31:04.465
And when I say, when
we talk about the

00:31:04.465 --> 00:31:07.305
orbat which is the
organization, how it's

00:31:07.305 --> 00:31:09.725
structured, there'd
be three platoons in

00:31:09.725 --> 00:31:11.895
senior brecon and a
three, three platoons

00:31:11.895 --> 00:31:13.425
would have roughly
about 30 guys each.

00:31:13.875 --> 00:31:16.034
So there's 90 of
us and the staff

00:31:16.095 --> 00:31:17.145
in this auditorium.

00:31:18.105 --> 00:31:19.305
And as I, they didn't
tell us who the

00:31:19.305 --> 00:31:20.085
guest speaker was.

00:31:20.534 --> 00:31:25.065
So as I walk in, I,
you know, visualize,

00:31:25.065 --> 00:31:26.895
check everything out
and I see that there

00:31:26.895 --> 00:31:29.115
is this civilian
gentlemen sitting there

00:31:29.115 --> 00:31:34.014
and he's older, maybe
not at, you know, the

00:31:34.014 --> 00:31:34.454
fittest he could be.

00:31:34.454 --> 00:31:34.915
Not the prime
of his life.

00:31:35.125 --> 00:31:37.014
The prime of his life.

00:31:37.905 --> 00:31:38.865
And I'm just
sitting there going.

00:31:40.115 --> 00:31:42.465
Man, like what is this
guy going to teach us?

00:31:42.465 --> 00:31:43.695
Who is this guy, right?

00:31:43.754 --> 00:31:45.335
And when the company
commander stood up

00:31:45.345 --> 00:31:47.625
to introduce him and
introduced him as

00:31:49.064 --> 00:31:51.435
Peter McAleese, and
he wrote the book,

00:31:51.435 --> 00:31:52.134
No Mean Soldier.

00:31:52.134 --> 00:31:52.955
I've got that book, yeah.

00:31:53.205 --> 00:31:56.054
And it's interesting book
for the guys to read.

00:31:56.564 --> 00:31:58.995
And a quick summary
of, of Peter was that

00:31:58.995 --> 00:32:00.975
he joined the British
Parachute Regiment,

00:32:01.855 --> 00:32:05.205
British SAS, and then he
went to Zimbabwe, which

00:32:05.205 --> 00:32:07.514
used to be Rhodesia and
he fought, I believe in

00:32:07.514 --> 00:32:09.825
the Rhodesian SAS and
he wrote a book about

00:32:09.825 --> 00:32:12.195
his time and he ended
up in after the war

00:32:12.195 --> 00:32:14.685
ended, ended up in the
South African forces

00:32:14.685 --> 00:32:17.655
and then out and about,
and I believe he was

00:32:17.655 --> 00:32:20.804
involved in that movie
that came out about

00:32:20.865 --> 00:32:22.304
taking down Escobar.

00:32:22.425 --> 00:32:22.665
Right.

00:32:23.325 --> 00:32:26.085
He was at a bad Delaware
crash and not to divert

00:32:26.085 --> 00:32:29.595
from that, but I was
like, wow, I read his

00:32:29.595 --> 00:32:30.615
book and this is Peter.

00:32:30.855 --> 00:32:31.875
So this is going
to be great.

00:32:32.879 --> 00:32:33.810
To learn from
this, right.

00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:34.140
Totally.

00:32:34.560 --> 00:32:36.610
And you mentioned Robbie
Gilmour and Robbie

00:32:36.629 --> 00:32:39.420
Gilmour was a Canadian
soldier that went and

00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:42.000
volunteered and joined
the Rhodesian forces

00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.390
as well and Peter was
his platoon Sergeant

00:32:46.080 --> 00:32:48.600
and there's a book or
in his book, there is

00:32:48.600 --> 00:32:50.610
Robbie Gilmour standing
there doing paperwork

00:32:51.030 --> 00:32:51.870
after an attack.

00:32:52.470 --> 00:32:53.570
And I'm like, that's
Robbie Gilmour.

00:32:54.020 --> 00:32:57.150
So as a young guy, I was
17 years old on my basic

00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:00.719
training here, robbie
was my platoon warrant

00:33:01.125 --> 00:33:01.905
on basic training.

00:33:02.415 --> 00:33:05.115
And I remember him
telling the platoon that

00:33:06.075 --> 00:33:10.595
when you do this for
real, this platoon or

00:33:10.605 --> 00:33:13.415
bot or organized it'll
fall apart, and it's

00:33:13.415 --> 00:33:15.305
not going to matter one
section, two section,

00:33:15.335 --> 00:33:16.925
three section, it's
going to be you group, do

00:33:16.925 --> 00:33:18.455
this, you group do that.

00:33:19.115 --> 00:33:20.195
And this needs
to happen now.

00:33:20.645 --> 00:33:22.895
And that stuck with me
as a young 17 year old

00:33:23.165 --> 00:33:25.885
wide-eyed listening
to Robbie Gilmour.

00:33:26.345 --> 00:33:27.815
So bringing it back
to senior brecon.

00:33:28.800 --> 00:33:31.199
Peter did his
presentation talked

00:33:31.199 --> 00:33:33.540
about some of the bush
fighting he did, and the

00:33:33.540 --> 00:33:35.699
bush tactics, he really
focused on that element,

00:33:35.699 --> 00:33:37.979
not anything else that
he did after right.

00:33:38.790 --> 00:33:42.479
Um, but at the end of
his presentation, all

00:33:42.479 --> 00:33:44.129
the colour sergeants
were surrounded him.

00:33:44.820 --> 00:33:45.209
Right.

00:33:45.239 --> 00:33:45.780
And chatting.

00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:49.935
So I kinda like started
to sneak between them.

00:33:50.264 --> 00:33:50.475
Yeah.

00:33:50.595 --> 00:33:50.925
Right.

00:33:51.435 --> 00:33:53.295
And I could see Peter
looking at me and the

00:33:53.295 --> 00:33:55.065
colour sergeants are
looking at me like, okay,

00:33:55.065 --> 00:33:55.905
what's this guy doing?

00:33:57.165 --> 00:33:58.995
And I just
said, Hey, sir.

00:34:00.165 --> 00:34:03.554
Uh, my name is Jason
Budd  and I'm from Canada

00:34:03.945 --> 00:34:06.554
and Robbie Gilmour was
my old platoon warrant,

00:34:06.645 --> 00:34:10.605
our Simba, my regiment,
and his eyes lit up

00:34:11.205 --> 00:34:11.895
and the connection.

00:34:11.924 --> 00:34:14.625
And he was like, Oh, like
the connection was really

00:34:14.924 --> 00:34:16.395
phenomenal to have that.

00:34:16.815 --> 00:34:18.375
And he's like,
how's Robbie doing?

00:34:18.384 --> 00:34:19.605
I said, well, you
heard he's doing this.

00:34:19.605 --> 00:34:21.734
And I heard he's doing
that, doing well.

00:34:21.884 --> 00:34:22.185
He's all.

00:34:22.185 --> 00:34:24.614
That's great, great, can
you pass on my regards?

00:34:25.035 --> 00:34:25.935
Small world.

00:34:26.595 --> 00:34:28.695
Another shout out
to Mark Lundy from

00:34:28.695 --> 00:34:29.535
the Seaforth year.

00:34:30.045 --> 00:34:32.955
And Mark got a message
to Robbie said, Hey,

00:34:33.105 --> 00:34:35.505
Jason just met Peter
at a presentation

00:34:35.535 --> 00:34:37.115
prior going to Malawi.

00:34:37.695 --> 00:34:39.645
And you know, it
was very, and Robbie

00:34:39.645 --> 00:34:41.705
said that it's
very small world.

00:34:41.705 --> 00:34:42.455
Totally is.

00:34:42.455 --> 00:34:42.725
Yeah.

00:34:42.845 --> 00:34:43.775
Small world.

00:34:44.279 --> 00:34:46.770
When you push yourself
hard and you start

00:34:46.770 --> 00:34:49.500
working your way up, the
food chain, the number

00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:51.779
of people that you can
look side to side, your

00:34:51.779 --> 00:34:54.870
peers will definitely
start to, to narrow down.

00:34:54.870 --> 00:34:56.969
So, um, th these are
some, some bigger

00:34:56.969 --> 00:35:00.359
names in the world of
professional soldiering.

00:35:00.540 --> 00:35:01.109
That's for sure.

00:35:01.609 --> 00:35:02.330
Yeah, for sure.

00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:02.779
Yeah.

00:35:02.779 --> 00:35:09.410
So Malawi, so two, three
days prior to going to

00:35:09.410 --> 00:35:11.509
Malawi, we were still
doing our range training.

00:35:12.225 --> 00:35:14.565
And it would be, it was
snowing, sleet, wet.

00:35:15.345 --> 00:35:17.955
We're doing a tac
range and I'm in a

00:35:17.985 --> 00:35:20.475
river and freezing.

00:35:21.345 --> 00:35:23.865
And then three days
later, we are in

00:35:24.075 --> 00:35:26.455
Malawi, Africa, 55
above and raining.

00:35:26.865 --> 00:35:29.685
12 hours to climatize
and the hanger, catch

00:35:29.685 --> 00:35:30.555
up, sleep and you're out.

00:35:31.095 --> 00:35:31.695
But it's interesting.

00:35:31.695 --> 00:35:34.005
Before we went out,
the Sergeant major

00:35:34.005 --> 00:35:37.785
said, guys, I've put a
barrel of DEET in the,

00:35:38.235 --> 00:35:40.495
in your laundry room so
go dip your combats in.

00:35:41.985 --> 00:35:43.005
You go  over to Malawi.

00:35:43.125 --> 00:35:43.425
Yeah.

00:35:44.355 --> 00:35:44.955
So I do it.

00:35:45.045 --> 00:35:47.265
And as I walk in, my
eyes are burning from

00:35:47.265 --> 00:35:49.634
this DEET and I dip
it in and I'm like,

00:35:49.634 --> 00:35:50.325
this can't be good.

00:35:50.325 --> 00:35:52.305
And I started doing
research on DEET,  agent

00:35:52.305 --> 00:35:55.754
orange and all this
stuff from Vietnam.

00:35:56.565 --> 00:35:58.754
So I washed my combats
about four times.

00:35:59.055 --> 00:35:59.535
After that?

00:35:59.595 --> 00:36:00.165
After that.

00:36:00.495 --> 00:36:02.085
Where a lot of guys just
took it out, dried it.

00:36:02.290 --> 00:36:04.410
They were dipping it
in barrels Trav, right.

00:36:04.490 --> 00:36:05.470
DEET works awesome.

00:36:05.500 --> 00:36:07.839
Don't get near plastic,
it'll melt your plastic.

00:36:07.839 --> 00:36:09.040
Oh, I know,  I
had a watch.

00:36:09.040 --> 00:36:09.230
Oh did you?

00:36:09.230 --> 00:36:10.710
Back in the day melt
to my hand, right.

00:36:10.710 --> 00:36:13.069
Plastic watch, the
vacuum, the old Timex.

00:36:13.470 --> 00:36:14.520
Yeah, melted to my hand.

00:36:14.549 --> 00:36:16.890
Woke up, but the DEET
on my hand, yeah.

00:36:17.250 --> 00:36:19.230
So I washed that
out and they also

00:36:19.230 --> 00:36:20.700
put us on Laurium.

00:36:21.270 --> 00:36:21.750
Oh, really?

00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:22.410
Yeah.

00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:24.150
And it didn't work for
me, like put us on about

00:36:24.150 --> 00:36:25.109
two weeks prior to going.

00:36:25.589 --> 00:36:28.109
It did not work
for me at all.

00:36:28.170 --> 00:36:28.470
Yeah.

00:36:28.950 --> 00:36:31.350
I was like the guy I'd
be standing on my cot

00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.040
or in my bunk, in brecon
at 2:00 AM thinking

00:36:35.040 --> 00:36:37.020
I'm swat, bad dreams,
swatting at birds in

00:36:37.020 --> 00:36:37.710
the room and stuff.

00:36:37.770 --> 00:36:38.759
And I just think,
but he did.

00:36:39.299 --> 00:36:40.290
So I had to go off that.

00:36:40.350 --> 00:36:42.480
I went on this other,
this other meds.

00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.680
We can probably
talk about that

00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:44.879
at another story.

00:36:44.879 --> 00:36:45.270
It's great.

00:36:45.520 --> 00:36:47.399
The meds they put me
on is quite funny.

00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:47.730
Yeah.

00:36:48.060 --> 00:36:48.839
But yeah.

00:36:48.870 --> 00:36:51.359
So then we, we ended up
in Malawi and the final

00:36:51.359 --> 00:36:52.529
exercise is four weeks.

00:36:53.569 --> 00:36:55.319
Two weeks blank fire.

00:36:55.755 --> 00:36:56.085
Okay.

00:36:56.475 --> 00:36:58.305
Training and then two
weeks live fire training.

00:36:58.365 --> 00:36:59.955
So it's pretty intensive
final exercise.

00:37:00.735 --> 00:37:03.825
And we're mostly
working in our, in

00:37:03.825 --> 00:37:07.485
our platoons during
patrols and attacks

00:37:07.485 --> 00:37:09.525
and deliver patrols,
fighting patrols.

00:37:10.155 --> 00:37:12.195
And then at the live
fire, we start coming

00:37:12.195 --> 00:37:13.635
together more as a
company and doing

00:37:13.635 --> 00:37:16.535
more or company level
attacks and everything.

00:37:17.225 --> 00:37:19.634
Um, But I remember
like one of the

00:37:19.634 --> 00:37:21.465
first few nights
being in our harbor.

00:37:21.465 --> 00:37:22.665
And I think we talked
about, we haven't

00:37:22.905 --> 00:37:24.105
done that podcast yet.

00:37:24.105 --> 00:37:26.245
We talked about, about
the, uh, the lion

00:37:26.575 --> 00:37:30.705
circling the harbor
at night, and there'd

00:37:30.705 --> 00:37:31.815
be like one rifle.

00:37:31.935 --> 00:37:33.285
One of the colour
sergeants would have one

00:37:33.285 --> 00:37:36.884
rifle with live rounds
and that would be it, in

00:37:36.884 --> 00:37:37.995
our group of 30, right.

00:37:38.025 --> 00:37:38.685
For example.

00:37:39.285 --> 00:37:41.325
But the, we had
a pair of flares.

00:37:42.225 --> 00:37:44.475
On the century
positions the fire at

00:37:44.475 --> 00:37:45.975
the lines if they got
too close, but they're

00:37:45.975 --> 00:37:47.855
literally circling,
circling our harbour.

00:37:47.855 --> 00:37:49.455
Just waiting eh.

00:37:50.175 --> 00:37:55.755
But yeah, we had lions
and tasty  and all

00:37:55.755 --> 00:37:58.275
types of things going
on in, in Malawi.

00:37:59.235 --> 00:38:02.175
Um, one of the things
that that really stood

00:38:02.175 --> 00:38:05.745
out for me was prior to
this, you know, train in

00:38:05.745 --> 00:38:09.075
the UK were very natal
orders and natal broke

00:38:09.075 --> 00:38:12.930
breakdown over platoons,
but in, in Malawi,

00:38:12.930 --> 00:38:15.030
for example, when it's
55 above and raining,

00:38:15.390 --> 00:38:18.600
that promotes the grass
growing and the grass

00:38:18.600 --> 00:38:19.590
is like six feet high.

00:38:20.190 --> 00:38:23.190
So it had these open
areas called gambles

00:38:23.250 --> 00:38:25.590
and the gamble would
be anywhere from one

00:38:25.590 --> 00:38:27.450
to 200 meters wide,
depending, even more.

00:38:27.450 --> 00:38:28.800
And then you have
the forest blocks.

00:38:28.980 --> 00:38:31.500
So you might be tasked
to clear the gambles,

00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.720
but you're not actually
allowed to set foot

00:38:33.720 --> 00:38:34.410
in the gambles.

00:38:34.680 --> 00:38:34.860
Okay.

00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:37.650
So you have to, or about
your platoon so that.

00:38:38.460 --> 00:38:39.779
It's on either side
of the gambles.

00:38:39.779 --> 00:38:42.259
So now traditionally we
had the, we call it orbat

00:38:42.390 --> 00:38:44.609
that's the organizing
your platoon, you know,

00:38:44.609 --> 00:38:46.689
in a platoon would have
the boss or the platoon

00:38:46.710 --> 00:38:47.759
commander with his group.

00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:50.790
Three rifle sections
of eight guys, the

00:38:50.790 --> 00:38:52.350
section commander and a
platoon sergeants group.

00:38:53.370 --> 00:38:55.830
And that was like
the standard natal

00:38:55.830 --> 00:38:57.780
format, but that didn't
necessarily work in

00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.550
Malawi because you
needed to clear both

00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:00.540
sides of the gamble.

00:39:00.990 --> 00:39:03.480
So we would experiment
with like, maybe you have

00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.100
the platoon commanders
group two sections

00:39:05.100 --> 00:39:07.020
on the right between
Sergeant group of one

00:39:07.020 --> 00:39:07.890
section on the left.

00:39:07.890 --> 00:39:09.750
And you're, you're
working on far supporting

00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:12.210
each other, but you'd
be expected to clear

00:39:12.694 --> 00:39:14.225
the gamble without
setting foot in it.

00:39:14.734 --> 00:39:16.205
You clearing the
woods beside it.

00:39:16.714 --> 00:39:19.714
And if you ever
crossed, you'd fail

00:39:19.714 --> 00:39:20.165
your appointment.

00:39:20.335 --> 00:39:20.825
Auto-fail.

00:39:21.004 --> 00:39:22.444
Yeah, you'd be
automatically

00:39:22.444 --> 00:39:22.895
you failed it.

00:39:23.765 --> 00:39:24.544
So that was really good.

00:39:24.544 --> 00:39:26.615
That was a really
good teaching point

00:39:26.615 --> 00:39:29.044
for me was that yeah,
you follow the natal

00:39:29.044 --> 00:39:33.274
format, but be flexible
the way you organize

00:39:33.274 --> 00:39:34.024
your, your group.

00:39:34.835 --> 00:39:37.325
And this really
became apparent for

00:39:37.325 --> 00:39:38.615
me in Afghanistan.

00:39:38.655 --> 00:39:41.970
Um,  because I mentioned
in the last podcast

00:39:41.970 --> 00:39:44.700
that I went out and was
attached a Zula company

00:39:44.700 --> 00:39:46.850
for five commander
as a continuity NCO.

00:39:47.720 --> 00:39:49.200
NCO, non-commissioned
officer.

00:39:49.560 --> 00:39:50.850
Basically the,
the British have a

00:39:50.850 --> 00:39:54.000
really good system
where they put the

00:39:54.060 --> 00:39:55.740
incoming organization.

00:39:56.250 --> 00:39:59.130
They send some of the
NCO's and officers to be

00:39:59.130 --> 00:40:01.830
on the ground and be as
continuity, the handover.

00:40:02.445 --> 00:40:04.785
So I think I mentioned,
like I had to learn

00:40:04.785 --> 00:40:07.365
the new 338 to teach
our sniper debts.

00:40:07.455 --> 00:40:07.695
Right.

00:40:07.935 --> 00:40:09.225
And then just
learn the ground.

00:40:09.945 --> 00:40:13.125
And, um, so I had already
been on the ground and

00:40:13.125 --> 00:40:18.705
by the time my platoon
came down, uh, this

00:40:18.705 --> 00:40:21.945
was going to be one of
their first operations.

00:40:22.095 --> 00:40:22.395
Okay.

00:40:22.455 --> 00:40:24.825
For them to go out this
night into an ambush.

00:40:25.635 --> 00:40:27.655
And the area we ran
was called  garmazeer

00:40:28.275 --> 00:40:31.505
and there was, um,
very static, robust.

00:40:32.385 --> 00:40:34.755
Um, it was the furthest,
uh, I believe it was

00:40:34.865 --> 00:40:36.255
south that we could
go to the Pakistan

00:40:36.255 --> 00:40:38.295
border and they had
that one hour golden

00:40:38.295 --> 00:40:39.195
hour for the flight.

00:40:39.195 --> 00:40:41.085
So we weren't, it
was basically the

00:40:41.085 --> 00:40:42.384
British weren't allowed
to advance anymore

00:40:42.435 --> 00:40:43.635
because it'd be more
than that one hour.

00:40:43.635 --> 00:40:44.865
So it was really dug in.

00:40:44.955 --> 00:40:45.315
Right.

00:40:45.795 --> 00:40:48.375
And the Taliban
would use this area

00:40:48.375 --> 00:40:49.575
as a training area.

00:40:49.725 --> 00:40:49.985
Sure.

00:40:49.985 --> 00:40:51.845
They were coming across
from Pakistan and then

00:40:51.845 --> 00:40:54.995
they would train it
10 days and they just

00:40:54.995 --> 00:40:56.165
bypasses in the desert.

00:40:56.645 --> 00:40:58.685
They bypass it down,
but we had this like,

00:40:59.235 --> 00:41:00.705
four kilometre frontage.

00:41:01.424 --> 00:41:03.645
And there was a Melman
one side called JTAC Hill

00:41:04.995 --> 00:41:06.975
and the Hellman river
running that side and

00:41:06.975 --> 00:41:09.734
then there was a canal on
the left side, the four

00:41:09.734 --> 00:41:11.535
kilometres, there's an
old russian bunk house.

00:41:11.775 --> 00:41:12.045
Okay.

00:41:12.285 --> 00:41:15.945
And, um, we are
basically beefed it up.

00:41:16.305 --> 00:41:18.195
The engineers built
it up to be a fighting

00:41:18.195 --> 00:41:19.005
fortification.

00:41:19.485 --> 00:41:21.945
So how we did our
structure down in

00:41:21.945 --> 00:41:23.805
here as a company
level, a platoon would

00:41:23.985 --> 00:41:28.485
man JTAC Hill and
bellaclava checkpoint

00:41:28.485 --> 00:41:29.385
we called this area.

00:41:29.985 --> 00:41:32.085
And half the platoon
would go to one and the

00:41:32.085 --> 00:41:32.865
other half do the other.

00:41:32.865 --> 00:41:35.115
So platoon Sergeant
would go one and boss

00:41:35.115 --> 00:41:35.805
would take the other one.

00:41:35.805 --> 00:41:37.964
And I always ended up in
bellaclava checkpoint,

00:41:38.025 --> 00:41:38.565
which is fine.

00:41:38.654 --> 00:41:39.015
Sure.

00:41:39.315 --> 00:41:40.355
And we'd be there
for seven days

00:41:40.355 --> 00:41:41.595
cycle, in a rotation.

00:41:42.585 --> 00:41:44.295
But what was happening
was in the mornings,

00:41:44.295 --> 00:41:46.875
the Taliban would always
come in and I call it

00:41:46.875 --> 00:41:48.915
an ambush, but they
would do a shoot on

00:41:49.134 --> 00:41:50.115
bellaclava every morning.

00:41:50.214 --> 00:41:50.575
Sure.

00:41:51.310 --> 00:41:53.380
So the company
commander wanted to

00:41:53.650 --> 00:41:54.529
counter ambush this.

00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:56.110
So this is going to
be one of the first

00:41:56.110 --> 00:41:58.990
big operation for this
company, new company.

00:41:59.170 --> 00:42:01.570
Like I said, I've already
been on down six weeks

00:42:01.570 --> 00:42:03.280
or as it was, so I'm
pretty familiar with it.

00:42:03.610 --> 00:42:05.440
This was going to be one
of the first operations

00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:06.100
for the company.

00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:07.960
And my platoon
was a little later

00:42:08.080 --> 00:42:08.710
arriving too.

00:42:08.710 --> 00:42:10.540
So this is that this
is their first thing.

00:42:12.130 --> 00:42:15.970
So what was supposed to
happen was w w one of

00:42:15.970 --> 00:42:17.680
the platoons was going
to man, the checkpoints.

00:42:18.615 --> 00:42:21.015
Another platoon was
going to actually man,

00:42:21.225 --> 00:42:24.725
the primary ambush site,
to ambush the Taliban.

00:42:24.925 --> 00:42:25.245
Right.

00:42:25.245 --> 00:42:26.355
That tries to ambush us.

00:42:26.535 --> 00:42:26.685
Yeah.

00:42:28.005 --> 00:42:32.565
My platoon job was the
cross the canal, which

00:42:32.625 --> 00:42:35.475
actually was, um, the,
our field engineers

00:42:35.475 --> 00:42:37.305
were going to put
an empty footbridge

00:42:37.305 --> 00:42:38.355
in with our help.

00:42:38.355 --> 00:42:39.855
We're going to put this
empty footbridge, cross

00:42:39.855 --> 00:42:41.325
the canal, and then.

00:42:42.134 --> 00:42:43.455
The ambush group
would go to theirs.

00:42:44.115 --> 00:42:47.145
And, uh, we talked about
JTAC Hill was a mound

00:42:47.205 --> 00:42:50.265
that the British made
from one of the first

00:42:50.265 --> 00:42:51.735
Anglo Afghan Wars.

00:42:52.140 --> 00:42:52.560
Right.

00:42:53.040 --> 00:42:54.120
150 years ago.

00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:54.509
Right.

00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:56.310
And it's probably a
hundred meters high.

00:42:56.340 --> 00:42:57.870
Well, they made a
bunch of these mounds

00:42:58.290 --> 00:42:59.790
and there was a
couple other mounds.

00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:02.070
Now on the other side
of the canal, one

00:43:02.070 --> 00:43:05.370
was 300 meters away
called little brother.

00:43:05.640 --> 00:43:05.940
Okay.

00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:08.009
And then there was
another one that was

00:43:08.220 --> 00:43:10.510
pretty big, probably
as big as  JTAC Hill.

00:43:10.529 --> 00:43:12.540
That was a hundred
meters high, I think

00:43:12.540 --> 00:43:13.500
hundred meters high camp.

00:43:14.160 --> 00:43:15.990
It was a big mound
called Taliban Hill.

00:43:16.380 --> 00:43:16.860
Okay.

00:43:17.250 --> 00:43:18.390
We call it Taliban Hill.

00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:23.370
Our job was to go to
little brother and

00:43:23.370 --> 00:43:26.460
protect the ambush
site, that was our job.

00:43:27.060 --> 00:43:31.680
So we had, I believe
three rifle sections.

00:43:32.070 --> 00:43:34.560
We had a right, uh,
fire support section.

00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:37.800
So we had attachments
from, you know, we had a

00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:40.560
couple of machine guns,
snipers, anti-tank,

00:43:41.070 --> 00:43:42.840
all attached to this.

00:43:43.830 --> 00:43:45.750
And I had my group
platoon sergeants group.

00:43:45.810 --> 00:43:47.310
I believe I had
the 51 mortar.

00:43:47.790 --> 00:43:53.210
And, uh, um, I had
a foldable stretcher

00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.820
that had one of the big
guys carry in my group.

00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:57.500
So we would be doing
the resupply and

00:43:57.500 --> 00:43:59.030
casualty evacuation
if we needed it.

00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:02.120
And the platoon commander
had, I believe he had

00:44:02.120 --> 00:44:04.070
a, um, some attachments.

00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:06.440
You had a couple
engineers, uh,

00:44:06.470 --> 00:44:07.370
platoon signaler.

00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.160
So we have this
big group, Trav.

00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:09.350
Sure.

00:44:09.820 --> 00:44:10.080
Right.

00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:12.650
And then the platoon
commander sets off

00:44:13.620 --> 00:44:14.310
leading us out.

00:44:15.270 --> 00:44:16.470
So imagine now
I'm going to be

00:44:16.470 --> 00:44:17.190
bringing up the rear.

00:44:17.190 --> 00:44:19.710
I'm doing the
release point and

00:44:19.770 --> 00:44:20.670
it's nighttime too.

00:44:20.670 --> 00:44:21.840
I didn't, I don't know
if I mentioned that.

00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:22.660
Nah, I was gonna ask.

00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:24.840
11 o'clock
midnight, right?

00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:25.760
Night vision.

00:44:25.820 --> 00:44:27.740
And this is when Taliban
. Want to advance as

00:44:27.740 --> 00:44:28.910
well too,is nighttime

00:44:28.910 --> 00:44:30.830
?
No, they, they'll
probably coming in

00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:31.740
first light-ish.

00:44:31.820 --> 00:44:32.090
Okay.

00:44:32.120 --> 00:44:32.480
Four.

00:44:32.720 --> 00:44:33.140
Okay.

00:44:33.290 --> 00:44:33.440
Right.

00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:35.060
We just need to be in
position before four.

00:44:35.060 --> 00:44:35.970
That's the goal, right?

00:44:36.120 --> 00:44:36.520
4AM.

00:44:37.070 --> 00:44:38.330
They didn't, they
didn't really move.

00:44:38.330 --> 00:44:39.680
They like to move around
too much at night.

00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:40.160
Okay.

00:44:40.770 --> 00:44:42.510
Without the night vision
of thing, we did, a lot

00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:45.570
of, most of our patrols
were done a night for us.

00:44:45.600 --> 00:44:46.830
They have us the
advantage, right.

00:44:46.890 --> 00:44:48.690
They did a lot of their
action, it was during

00:44:48.690 --> 00:44:51.510
the day I found our first
light, first light, last

00:44:51.510 --> 00:44:52.170
light during the day.

00:44:52.680 --> 00:44:54.060
And then the hunker
down during the night.

00:44:54.110 --> 00:44:56.420
Just like
hunting, animals.

00:44:56.570 --> 00:44:57.930
We're all animals
I tell you ya.

00:44:58.640 --> 00:45:02.960
So as I'm setting
off Trav, I'm,

00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:04.370
I'm looking right.

00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.785
And I'm like, Oh, there
his little brother and

00:45:07.785 --> 00:45:08.715
we're not going there.

00:45:08.895 --> 00:45:11.205
Oh, I see the platoon
heading off the

00:45:11.595 --> 00:45:13.425
Taliban Hill, which
is a kilometre away.

00:45:13.515 --> 00:45:14.325
Oh no.

00:45:14.715 --> 00:45:18.945
And I'm like, Oh, and by
this time, like I radioed

00:45:18.945 --> 00:45:20.415
up to the boss and.

00:45:21.015 --> 00:45:23.305
And we just kind of adapt
the plan and we're going

00:45:23.325 --> 00:45:24.135
to the Taliban Hill.

00:45:24.705 --> 00:45:26.695
So we're a
kilometre away.

00:45:26.855 --> 00:45:27.395
New plan.

00:45:27.535 --> 00:45:27.885
Yeah.

00:45:27.885 --> 00:45:30.435
It's like, it's kind
of like, um, I think

00:45:30.435 --> 00:45:32.505
it's, uh, I think it
was hamburger Hill that

00:45:32.505 --> 00:45:34.365
line, like you're in
the wrong ambush site

00:45:34.395 --> 00:45:36.765
or maybe platoon, but
that was in my mind,

00:45:37.275 --> 00:45:38.985
like we're in the wrong
ambush site right.

00:45:39.615 --> 00:45:43.785
Um, but so off they
went and the engineers

00:45:43.785 --> 00:45:45.135
were there to clear
up because I know the

00:45:45.145 --> 00:45:47.145
Taliban in the past
had put anti-personnel

00:45:47.145 --> 00:45:47.835
mines in the top.

00:45:48.195 --> 00:45:49.275
And some of the
Royal Marines got

00:45:49.275 --> 00:45:49.935
caught in that.

00:45:49.965 --> 00:45:52.755
And so engineers
go up the clear it

00:45:53.085 --> 00:45:54.435
and our guys go up.

00:45:55.065 --> 00:45:57.465
So I'm down in the
bottom and I'm securing

00:45:57.465 --> 00:45:58.245
at the base of it.

00:45:58.245 --> 00:46:01.575
We call . It the FRV
or, uh, it's like

00:46:01.575 --> 00:46:02.205
a release point.

00:46:02.415 --> 00:46:02.715
Okay.

00:46:02.775 --> 00:46:04.965
So this is the rally
point that everybody

00:46:05.384 --> 00:46:06.345
they're going to
come back to it.

00:46:06.345 --> 00:46:09.675
So I need to secure
that and our guys go up

00:46:09.675 --> 00:46:10.575
for them for the night.

00:46:11.115 --> 00:46:13.990
Sure enough, 4:00
AM, our guys, cause

00:46:14.020 --> 00:46:15.000
you  have 110 guys.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:16.470
We bring them with us
because they have the,

00:46:16.470 --> 00:46:19.500
um, the javelin site,
which is thermal imaging.

00:46:20.009 --> 00:46:22.170
So they can actually see
the Taliban moving so

00:46:22.220 --> 00:46:24.330
we can see them moving
into the ambush well

00:46:24.330 --> 00:46:26.819
before the actual ambush
site, but they're coming

00:46:26.819 --> 00:46:28.680
from a different, I
believe they were coming

00:46:28.680 --> 00:46:29.460
from a different area.

00:46:30.299 --> 00:46:34.240
And um, we got told
to spring our ambush

00:46:34.259 --> 00:46:34.860
on the Taliban.

00:46:34.860 --> 00:46:36.720
So we did, and this
happened around.

00:46:37.620 --> 00:46:40.110
You know, firstlight
are just still

00:46:40.110 --> 00:46:40.780
dark right there.

00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:41.550
Just kind of moving.

00:46:42.390 --> 00:46:43.560
And traditionally,
when you spring an

00:46:43.560 --> 00:46:44.430
ambush, you withdraw.

00:46:45.210 --> 00:46:45.540
Okay.

00:46:45.690 --> 00:46:48.000
But we didn't get the
order to withdraw.

00:46:49.050 --> 00:46:52.560
So we held in position,
I think for another hour,

00:46:53.670 --> 00:46:54.900
I think, I think what was
happening, where we were

00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:57.240
just, we were trying to
feel out what was going

00:46:57.240 --> 00:46:59.780
on and maybe we can draw
more Taliban in, right.

00:47:00.310 --> 00:47:00.860
Right.

00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:03.770
So by the time we
got the order to

00:47:03.770 --> 00:47:05.760
withdraw, I think
it's like 6:00 AM now.

00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:07.560
Have we been
here a long time.

00:47:08.220 --> 00:47:12.150
And, uh, and just prior
to the order though,

00:47:12.150 --> 00:47:14.340
like I could tell things
were, were getting

00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:16.350
really tense, right.

00:47:16.560 --> 00:47:19.290
And then I had one of
my, um, one of the 51

00:47:19.290 --> 00:47:21.390
mortar men, and then one
of the stretcher dudes,

00:47:22.230 --> 00:47:26.010
um, doing rear security
said, Jace, Jace, there's

00:47:26.010 --> 00:47:26.910
a couple of dudes here.

00:47:27.720 --> 00:47:28.350
And I go, what?

00:47:28.970 --> 00:47:32.100
He goes a couple dudes
here and I, I look back,

00:47:32.100 --> 00:47:35.460
I basically, the grass,
this field is shoulder

00:47:35.460 --> 00:47:36.420
height and rolled down.

00:47:36.600 --> 00:47:40.170
I stand up and I look
and there's, I like to,

00:47:40.170 --> 00:47:41.879
I hope they're farmers
Trav, I don't know.

00:47:41.950 --> 00:47:42.270
Sure.

00:47:42.660 --> 00:47:45.420
But there are 50 metres,
less than 50 metres away.

00:47:45.420 --> 00:47:47.640
And we both look at each
other and it was like,

00:47:48.359 --> 00:47:49.510
like, you know, like.

00:47:49.510 --> 00:47:50.530
Like deer in headlights.

00:47:50.530 --> 00:47:51.115
Deer in the
headlights, both ways.

00:47:51.115 --> 00:47:54.165
And it was like, if
they had anything that

00:47:54.165 --> 00:47:55.065
resembled a weapon.

00:47:55.125 --> 00:47:56.025
It would have been like.

00:47:56.145 --> 00:47:56.505
Over.

00:47:56.535 --> 00:47:58.875
Go, but I just
thought no farmers

00:47:58.875 --> 00:47:59.715
and we both get down.

00:47:59.715 --> 00:48:00.884
And I think the
farm, I think they

00:48:00.895 --> 00:48:01.605
were just nosy.

00:48:02.174 --> 00:48:02.955
What was going on?

00:48:03.225 --> 00:48:04.904
Maybe they're a recon
party, I don't know.

00:48:05.325 --> 00:48:06.555
They didn't have
any weapons, but if

00:48:06.555 --> 00:48:08.565
they had anything, I
would have been like.

00:48:09.134 --> 00:48:09.465
Yeah.

00:48:09.495 --> 00:48:10.575
Go time for us, right.

00:48:11.174 --> 00:48:13.365
But so now the order
comes through withdrawal

00:48:13.455 --> 00:48:17.865
and, um, And the platoon
starts coming down.

00:48:17.865 --> 00:48:19.694
But prior to this,
the platoon commander

00:48:19.694 --> 00:48:22.395
is like, Sergeant
Budd, I need you to,

00:48:23.325 --> 00:48:26.595
uh, plan a withdrawal
route that doesn't go

00:48:26.595 --> 00:48:28.725
the way we came, for
obvious reasons, right.

00:48:29.055 --> 00:48:32.415
And I'm like, I, sir,
400 metre  run across

00:48:32.475 --> 00:48:34.575
the open field, get
in the canal and we go

00:48:34.575 --> 00:48:36.825
down the canal bank,
he say, yeah, yeah.

00:48:37.395 --> 00:48:40.725
So I remember one of
the snipers being one of

00:48:40.725 --> 00:48:43.154
the last off, and he's
like, they're coming.

00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:46.440
And the next thing I
know RPGs are lending

00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:49.710
indirect around us and,
and, and they fired

00:48:49.710 --> 00:48:52.259
the RPGs indirect fire.

00:48:52.380 --> 00:48:52.710
Right.

00:48:53.310 --> 00:48:54.960
Like in the air and
creating a beaten

00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:55.620
zone, I guess.

00:48:56.160 --> 00:48:58.790
And they actually, far
as I know, occupied a

00:48:58.790 --> 00:49:00.662
little brother, which
we should have been at.

00:49:00.662 --> 00:49:02.299
Where you guys were
supposed to be, yeah.

00:49:03.089 --> 00:49:04.680
So let's just
start moving right.

00:49:04.680 --> 00:49:07.440
Theplatoon commander
already has half, I

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.480
believe he had himself
and maybe half the

00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:12.330
platoon with him in the
open field, moving to

00:49:12.330 --> 00:49:14.279
the canal, we're just
going like on, on a

00:49:14.279 --> 00:49:15.089
straight angle to it.

00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:17.700
And then I believe they
opened fire or small

00:49:17.700 --> 00:49:20.490
arms fire peak campfire
seven 60 fire now is

00:49:20.490 --> 00:49:21.839
firing at us in the open.

00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:26.609
I still have half the
platoon with me in FRV.

00:49:27.765 --> 00:49:28.924
And the boss had
the other half

00:49:28.944 --> 00:49:29.745
platoon with him now.

00:49:29.745 --> 00:49:31.665
They actually made it
through the open field

00:49:32.234 --> 00:49:34.754
and then the other
they're there across now.

00:49:35.325 --> 00:49:38.115
And there, there was
this like a, a four

00:49:38.115 --> 00:49:40.634
foot retaining wall at
the canal and they're,

00:49:40.634 --> 00:49:42.435
they're putting a,
uh, fire support base

00:49:42.435 --> 00:49:47.175
in and like, Platoon
separated dome.

00:49:47.295 --> 00:49:47.655
Totally.

00:49:48.255 --> 00:49:50.825
And I know that like
from our training that

00:49:50.825 --> 00:49:53.235
the Taliban can, can
flank within 10 minutes.

00:49:53.685 --> 00:49:54.645
I'm like, we gotta move.

00:49:54.645 --> 00:49:55.305
We gotta get out of here.

00:49:55.305 --> 00:49:57.255
We gotta move, move,
move at, bear in mind.

00:49:57.255 --> 00:49:58.785
This is my platoon
first movement.

00:49:59.445 --> 00:50:01.755
And I'm throw like,
all right, guys,

00:50:01.845 --> 00:50:03.255
we're gonna peel.

00:50:03.285 --> 00:50:04.575
Let's just start
doing a big peel,

00:50:04.575 --> 00:50:05.295
fire  maneuvering.

00:50:05.355 --> 00:50:06.975
And I don't know if
they can hear me,

00:50:06.975 --> 00:50:07.875
but nobody's moving.

00:50:08.835 --> 00:50:09.705
And I'm like, okay.

00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:11.130
Aye.

00:50:11.130 --> 00:50:13.180
Y'all everybody
thow smoke and

00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:13.770
nothing's happening.

00:50:13.900 --> 00:50:14.290
Oh man.

00:50:14.290 --> 00:50:15.920
But I think we're spaced
out and everywhere.

00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:16.820
Sure.

00:50:16.910 --> 00:50:19.620
And then, um, I'm like,
you know what, Jay,

00:50:19.620 --> 00:50:21.660
if you get up and run.

00:50:21.720 --> 00:50:22.529
This is my mind.

00:50:22.770 --> 00:50:23.700
They're all
gonna follow you.

00:50:24.720 --> 00:50:27.509
So I did, I got up and
I started doing the

00:50:27.509 --> 00:50:29.609
400 metre run across
this open field.

00:50:29.669 --> 00:50:29.940
Yeah.

00:50:30.359 --> 00:50:32.669
And I, I can, I can
hear the rounds singing.

00:50:33.190 --> 00:50:35.069
And there was a section
that was pink, like that

00:50:35.069 --> 00:50:37.200
was out in the open there
ahead of me and Trav,

00:50:37.210 --> 00:50:38.490
I was moving so fast.

00:50:38.490 --> 00:50:39.830
I passed them and
I have the platoon

00:50:39.830 --> 00:50:40.690
Sergeant radio.

00:50:41.020 --> 00:50:44.410
Like I motored past this
section and it was just

00:50:44.410 --> 00:50:45.310
like, nothing, no work.

00:50:45.310 --> 00:50:46.509
And I'm like, they'll
follow me right.

00:50:46.840 --> 00:50:48.400
We had a good fire
support base coming

00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:49.060
in from the wall.

00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:53.140
And I remember the like
rounds hitting the wall

00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:57.259
as we dive over the
wall and, and right

00:50:57.259 --> 00:50:58.990
below where the guys
are firing back right.

00:50:59.170 --> 00:51:00.100
And, um.

00:51:01.020 --> 00:51:01.430
Geez.

00:51:01.450 --> 00:51:03.310
Would you believe Trav,
not a single guy got hit.

00:51:03.819 --> 00:51:06.580
Everybody got over
the wall got in, but

00:51:07.509 --> 00:51:09.490
the entire platoon
now is mixed up.

00:51:10.020 --> 00:51:10.380
Right.

00:51:10.410 --> 00:51:11.190
And they're firing back.

00:51:11.670 --> 00:51:12.660
They're firing back
little brother.

00:51:13.650 --> 00:51:15.990
So now we have like
that everything's gone.

00:51:16.560 --> 00:51:19.080
And the platoon commander
is trying to get a fire

00:51:19.080 --> 00:51:22.710
mission, but which if
our mission would be

00:51:22.710 --> 00:51:25.920
from the desert in,
we had 105 guns in the

00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:26.880
desert artillery support.

00:51:27.890 --> 00:51:33.330
But, um, he, and no
fault of his own, but

00:51:33.330 --> 00:51:35.070
he was giving the wrong
coordinates because

00:51:35.070 --> 00:51:36.570
he meant he was mixing
up little brother and

00:51:36.570 --> 00:51:37.590
Taliban Hill right.

00:51:37.650 --> 00:51:37.980
Got it.

00:51:38.040 --> 00:51:38.310
Yeah.

00:51:38.340 --> 00:51:39.620
So he wasn't getting
the fire mission.

00:51:39.640 --> 00:51:40.470
I'm like, boss,
we're going to move.

00:51:40.470 --> 00:51:40.860
We gotta move.

00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:41.400
We gotta move.

00:51:42.090 --> 00:51:43.880
And he's wants to get
this fire mission,

00:51:43.880 --> 00:51:45.819
which is, which is
fair, let's surpress.

00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.820
But I'm like, my concept
is they're going to get

00:51:47.820 --> 00:51:49.650
in the canal  on flait
us and we got to go.

00:51:49.710 --> 00:51:50.070
Right.

00:51:50.670 --> 00:51:54.660
So I like the platoons
. Go on and in terms of

00:51:54.690 --> 00:51:57.780
the orbat and it was
basically you group

00:51:57.900 --> 00:52:00.540
here, fire support, your
group are going to move.

00:52:00.570 --> 00:52:01.830
You're gonna move
first, move now.

00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:02.790
Right.

00:52:03.060 --> 00:52:05.820
And next group,
you're next to move.

00:52:06.030 --> 00:52:07.440
And I just grabbed the
boss and I put them

00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:10.020
in a group and we just
started doing this big

00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:13.020
fire maneuvering down
this canal for probably

00:52:13.020 --> 00:52:15.770
a good kilometre, the
boys nicknamed it and

00:52:15.770 --> 00:52:18.110
the Mogadishu mile right.

00:52:18.990 --> 00:52:20.940
So well, it was
interesting as well

00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:23.520
Trav, was that the Afghan
police have a checkpoint

00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:27.270
in the ma in the middle
of the town and they have

00:52:27.570 --> 00:52:30.060
a sanger built on the
top of their building and

00:52:30.060 --> 00:52:32.850
they're probably 600, 700
metres away in the town.

00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:37.800
So lesson learning here
is that we should have

00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.720
had maybe an element
there to control them.

00:52:40.050 --> 00:52:42.540
So they started
firing at us as well.

00:52:43.230 --> 00:52:45.030
Oh man, from that,
they don't know what

00:52:45.030 --> 00:52:45.950
they're firing at
and they have iron

00:52:46.030 --> 00:52:47.940
sights and, you know,
they're just firing.

00:52:48.030 --> 00:52:51.030
So we didn't know we're
actually getting where

00:52:51.030 --> 00:52:53.880
we're taking fire from,
but we were taking fire

00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:56.790
from both sides, the
Afghan police and, and,

00:52:56.790 --> 00:52:58.290
uh, the Taliban in there.

00:52:58.770 --> 00:53:01.830
And we did this, uh,
this basically fighting

00:53:01.830 --> 00:53:04.350
withdrawal down this,
down this canal.

00:53:04.860 --> 00:53:08.250
And I kind of be the
platoon Sergeant I

00:53:08.310 --> 00:53:09.990
called the regroup is
where we get everybody

00:53:09.990 --> 00:53:11.850
back together about a
hundred metres short

00:53:12.765 --> 00:53:15.345
of the company that
was holding the empty

00:53:15.345 --> 00:53:16.755
footbridge, right.

00:53:16.755 --> 00:53:18.255
Cause I didn't want to
come in there looking

00:53:18.255 --> 00:53:19.035
like a big rabble.

00:53:19.965 --> 00:53:22.935
So I did an, I did a
regroup, uh, you know,

00:53:22.965 --> 00:53:24.674
not really a reorg,
but a quick regroup.

00:53:24.765 --> 00:53:25.035
Right.

00:53:25.065 --> 00:53:26.745
We got everybody
back now into our one

00:53:26.745 --> 00:53:28.634
section two, section
three, section boss

00:53:29.025 --> 00:53:30.015
platoon sergeants group.

00:53:30.555 --> 00:53:32.505
And I had the boss go
first and lead it in.

00:53:32.775 --> 00:53:34.965
And then the
concept was we look

00:53:34.975 --> 00:53:36.045
pretty professional
coming through.

00:53:36.515 --> 00:53:38.945
I didn't want
this big, this big

00:53:38.945 --> 00:53:41.345
Mogadishu mile coming
through the company

00:53:41.365 --> 00:53:42.085
checkpoint, right.

00:53:42.235 --> 00:53:43.315
A good team
player as well.

00:53:43.705 --> 00:53:45.055
And then, you know,
handed it back.

00:53:45.055 --> 00:53:45.445
Sure.

00:53:45.655 --> 00:53:47.275
And off we go
across right?

00:53:47.335 --> 00:53:47.505
Yeah.

00:53:47.505 --> 00:53:51.145
So that, that was, um,
that was a lesson that

00:53:51.145 --> 00:53:53.905
I learned from Robbie
Gilmour is that when

00:53:53.905 --> 00:53:56.425
you do this for real,
as not going to matter

00:53:56.425 --> 00:53:58.315
one section, two section
three section, that's

00:53:58.315 --> 00:54:01.195
great if you can keep
that integrity, but often

00:54:01.255 --> 00:54:03.065
it's going to fail and
it's you group do this

00:54:03.085 --> 00:54:03.925
and you group do that.

00:54:04.405 --> 00:54:04.615
Yeah.

00:54:05.425 --> 00:54:07.405
And Trav, as well, not
to cut you off there.

00:54:07.465 --> 00:54:07.735
Yeah.

00:54:08.220 --> 00:54:10.020
I realize why we
do that two mile

00:54:10.020 --> 00:54:11.550
run when, fuck it.

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.450
I'm like, this is who
runs down a road, like,

00:54:15.510 --> 00:54:19.110
like an idiot with
35 pounds on and, and

00:54:19.110 --> 00:54:20.340
in 21 minutes, right.

00:54:21.210 --> 00:54:23.190
In full gear, I told him
it totally makes sense,

00:54:23.190 --> 00:54:24.270
I know why we do it.

00:54:24.270 --> 00:54:25.410
In hindsight, yeah.

00:54:25.950 --> 00:54:28.160
Any future soldier,
current soldier, this

00:54:28.160 --> 00:54:29.250
is why you do it.

00:54:31.060 --> 00:54:33.500
You know, Jason,
every time I speak

00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:34.220
with you, there's.

00:54:35.160 --> 00:54:37.200
Always some great
stories and I always

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:39.509
get some greater insight
into you as a person.

00:54:39.509 --> 00:54:42.120
And the more that,
uh, you share with

00:54:42.120 --> 00:54:45.480
everybody else, you know,
that I really respect

00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:46.049
what you're doing.

00:54:46.140 --> 00:54:48.000
I mean, it, it takes a
lot to be able to sit

00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.149
down and, and talk about
these stories and talk

00:54:51.149 --> 00:54:54.299
about the transition
from military into

00:54:54.299 --> 00:54:56.940
civilian life and sort
of the next steps.

00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:58.980
And I think you should
write a book or you

00:54:58.980 --> 00:55:00.660
should, uh, you should
probably get your own

00:55:00.660 --> 00:55:01.809
podcast at some point.

00:55:01.809 --> 00:55:04.865
You Trav, and maybe, you
know, it's interesting

00:55:04.865 --> 00:55:05.765
you talk about this.

00:55:06.005 --> 00:55:07.565
I was re I was listening
to a podcast on the

00:55:07.565 --> 00:55:10.745
way over and the one
thing I really enjoy

00:55:11.105 --> 00:55:12.875
our times together
is how much we laugh.

00:55:14.135 --> 00:55:17.855
And one thing in the
UK that that really

00:55:17.855 --> 00:55:19.355
stands out is the
British sense of humor.

00:55:19.915 --> 00:55:20.075
Right.

00:55:20.075 --> 00:55:21.745
When times are tough
they have a box of humour

00:55:21.765 --> 00:55:22.515
and everything else.

00:55:22.515 --> 00:55:25.485
And, and this is
podcast I was listening

00:55:25.485 --> 00:55:26.805
to, he was talking
about mental health

00:55:26.835 --> 00:55:29.415
during the pandemic
and how it's suffered.

00:55:29.805 --> 00:55:31.425
And they were
talking about PTSD

00:55:31.455 --> 00:55:32.055
and everything else.

00:55:32.055 --> 00:55:32.295
Sure.

00:55:32.775 --> 00:55:34.665
But one thing that they
said, you know, one of

00:55:34.665 --> 00:55:36.825
our, our stress reflex
is one of the way we can

00:55:36.825 --> 00:55:38.505
manage it is laughter.

00:55:39.495 --> 00:55:39.765
Right.

00:55:40.125 --> 00:55:41.605
And the British
are really big

00:55:41.605 --> 00:55:42.325
for it, banter.

00:55:42.905 --> 00:55:44.835
And you have to be
careful because too

00:55:44.835 --> 00:55:47.055
much banter becomes
criticism and picking

00:55:47.055 --> 00:55:47.775
on people, but.

00:55:47.925 --> 00:55:48.315
Sure.

00:55:48.884 --> 00:55:50.895
But that's one thing I
really appreciate with

00:55:50.895 --> 00:55:53.355
us is that we have a
lot of fun and laughs

00:55:53.355 --> 00:55:54.285
during these podcasts.

00:55:54.315 --> 00:55:55.575
And I think that's
really important.

00:55:55.575 --> 00:55:57.794
And I think you hit
on, you know, some of

00:55:57.794 --> 00:55:59.654
the areas that I would
like to go down the

00:55:59.654 --> 00:56:01.365
road and it might be
writing my memoirs.

00:56:01.365 --> 00:56:05.345
A lot of people have said
that, um, and relating it

00:56:05.345 --> 00:56:08.345
to my journey, my journey
back here, my journey

00:56:08.345 --> 00:56:10.685
in the fire service,
my journey with my own

00:56:10.685 --> 00:56:14.105
struggles with mental
health, um, and how the

00:56:14.105 --> 00:56:17.194
outdoors is, has nurtured
and helped me heal.

00:56:17.555 --> 00:56:19.654
And you know, how much
passion I have for

00:56:19.654 --> 00:56:20.495
adventure therapy.

00:56:20.674 --> 00:56:21.154
Right.

00:56:21.424 --> 00:56:22.895
You know, so yeah.

00:56:22.924 --> 00:56:26.010
You know, Trav,
like I wouldn't mind

00:56:26.010 --> 00:56:28.710
doing a podcast down
the road that is

00:56:28.730 --> 00:56:30.750
maybe geared towards
adventure therapy.

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:31.860
Who knows?

00:56:32.340 --> 00:56:32.630
Ya know.

00:56:32.690 --> 00:56:35.450
Well, why don't we
ask the listeners, if

00:56:35.450 --> 00:56:37.880
anyone's listened all
the way to the end here

00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.490
and they want to hear
about adventure therapy

00:56:40.490 --> 00:56:42.740
and the journeys from
the military through

00:56:42.740 --> 00:56:45.740
fire to civilian life
and dealing with the

00:56:45.890 --> 00:56:49.100
struggles and mental
health, let us know.

00:56:49.160 --> 00:56:51.200
And we'll, we'll do
that podcast, if you're

00:56:51.200 --> 00:56:52.460
game I'm totally game.

00:56:53.220 --> 00:56:54.060
Yeah, for sure Trav.

00:56:54.270 --> 00:56:54.670
Okay.

00:56:54.730 --> 00:56:56.670
More time to laughs and.

00:56:57.240 --> 00:56:57.720
I love it.

00:56:57.750 --> 00:56:58.620
Spend some time with ya.

00:56:59.310 --> 00:57:01.550
Jason, thank you very
much for coming back on

00:57:01.550 --> 00:57:03.710
The Silvercore Podcast,
I really appreciate it.