{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":4.8,"endTime":8.16,"body":"Hello and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":4.8,"endTime":8.16,"body":"welcome to the July 2023 episode"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":8.16,"endTime":11.49,"body":"of chattering with ISFM. I'm"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":8.16,"endTime":11.49,"body":"Nathalie Dowgray here, Head of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":11.49,"endTime":15.57,"body":"ISFM and the host of this"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":11.49,"endTime":15.57,"body":"month's podcast. First up this"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":15.57,"endTime":18.48,"body":"month we're in conversation with"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":15.57,"endTime":18.48,"body":"Dr. Karen Hiestand. And we're"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":18.48,"endTime":21.69,"body":"going to be talking about"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":18.48,"endTime":21.69,"body":"veterinary ethics. We're also"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":21.69,"endTime":24.63,"body":"featuring our monthly JFMS"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":21.69,"endTime":24.63,"body":"clinical spotlight interview."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":25.02,"endTime":27.99,"body":"And this month, Dr. Kelly St"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":25.02,"endTime":27.99,"body":"Denis is going to be talking to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":27.99,"endTime":32.4,"body":"Dr. Alison Diesel about the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":27.99,"endTime":32.4,"body":"feline skin microbiome. We hope"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":32.4,"endTime":33.66,"body":"you enjoy this episode."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":36.3,"endTime":39.75,"body":"So how do we as veterinarians"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":36.3,"endTime":39.75,"body":"make our ethical decisions?"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":39.84,"endTime":42.6,"body":"There's a lot of factors that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":39.84,"endTime":42.6,"body":"are out of our control, both the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":42.63,"endTime":45.24,"body":"fun things about working with"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":42.63,"endTime":45.24,"body":"cats, but also, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":45.24,"endTime":48.81,"body":"owner factors that implicate,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":45.24,"endTime":48.81,"body":"quite strongly sometimes, on the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":48.81,"endTime":51.81,"body":"clinical decision making that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":48.81,"endTime":51.81,"body":"we're making, which may in turn,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":51.93,"endTime":53.61,"body":"compromise our ethics sometimes."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":53.78,"endTime":55.79,"body":"Usually. I"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":53.78,"endTime":55.79,"body":"actually think that that"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":55.79,"endTime":59.0,"body":"medicine for the entire vet team"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":55.79,"endTime":59.0,"body":"is one of the most ethically"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":59.36,"endTime":62.87,"body":"challenging roles that anyone"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":59.36,"endTime":62.87,"body":"can have, it's far more"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":62.87,"endTime":65.21,"body":"ethically challenging the"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":62.87,"endTime":65.21,"body":"medical doctors and at the"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":65.24,"endTime":68.81,"body":"essence, that's because we don't"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":65.24,"endTime":68.81,"body":"have central tenant to what we"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":68.81,"endTime":72.35,"body":"do. Doctors do. They're meant to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":68.81,"endTime":72.35,"body":"keep people alive and cause no"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":72.35,"endTime":76.07,"body":"harm. And everyone agrees on"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":72.35,"endTime":76.07,"body":"that, people don't agree about"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":76.07,"endTime":79.34,"body":"animals. Everyone has different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":76.07,"endTime":79.34,"body":"opinions about animals in"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":79.34,"endTime":81.23,"body":"general, they have different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":79.34,"endTime":81.23,"body":"opinions about different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":81.23,"endTime":83.84,"body":"species, they have different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":81.23,"endTime":83.84,"body":"opinions about different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":83.84,"endTime":86.96,"body":"individuals of a species in a"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":83.84,"endTime":86.96,"body":"different context, that pet cat"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":87.08,"endTime":90.59,"body":"matters more than that stray"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":87.08,"endTime":90.59,"body":"cat. So everyone has a different"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":90.59,"endTime":94.16,"body":"view as to what matters morally"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":90.59,"endTime":94.16,"body":"when it comes to animals, which"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":94.16,"endTime":98.39,"body":"makes our job to treat them"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":94.16,"endTime":98.39,"body":"incredibly difficult. Because we"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":98.39,"endTime":101.51,"body":"have to navigate all of those"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":98.39,"endTime":101.51,"body":"different opinions all the time."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":101.75,"endTime":105.8,"body":"You as part of the veterinary"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":101.75,"endTime":105.8,"body":"team will have your view about"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":105.8,"endTime":109.16,"body":"the moral worth of individual"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":105.8,"endTime":109.16,"body":"animals that you're seeing, but"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":109.16,"endTime":113.81,"body":"the person bringing them to you,"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":109.16,"endTime":113.81,"body":"who in our context owns them, is"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":113.81,"endTime":116.24,"body":"going to have their own"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":113.81,"endTime":116.24,"body":"individual view of the moral"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":116.24,"endTime":120.83,"body":"worth of that individual. And"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":116.24,"endTime":120.83,"body":"those two opinions may not gel"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":120.83,"endTime":124.19,"body":"at all. So you might find"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":120.83,"endTime":124.19,"body":"yourself at very opposing ends"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":124.22,"endTime":126.71,"body":"of where you place the moral"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":124.22,"endTime":126.71,"body":"value of the animal on the"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":126.71,"endTime":129.53,"body":"table. And that can be"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":126.71,"endTime":129.53,"body":"incredibly challenging to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":129.53,"endTime":132.65,"body":"navigate. When you are trying to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":129.53,"endTime":132.65,"body":"go one way they might be trying"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":132.65,"endTime":136.28,"body":"to go another and it means we"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":132.65,"endTime":136.28,"body":"can be incredibly compromised."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":136.55,"endTime":140.03,"body":"There's a huge literature on"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":136.55,"endTime":140.03,"body":"something called moral distress."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":140.33,"endTime":143.24,"body":"And moral distress is when you"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":140.33,"endTime":143.24,"body":"know what you should do."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":143.54,"endTime":146.81,"body":"According to your morals, you"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":143.54,"endTime":146.81,"body":"can't do it, because you're not"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":146.81,"endTime":150.35,"body":"the decision maker. So human"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":146.81,"endTime":150.35,"body":"nurses experience this hugely."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":150.35,"endTime":153.5,"body":"And there's been a really good"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":150.35,"endTime":153.5,"body":"bunch of research done looking"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":153.5,"endTime":157.55,"body":"at mental health impacts of"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":153.5,"endTime":157.55,"body":"that. Now, I would argue that"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":157.64,"endTime":159.86,"body":"pretty much everyone in the"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":157.64,"endTime":159.86,"body":"veterinary team is in that"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":159.86,"endTime":163.1,"body":"situation, nurses even more so"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":159.86,"endTime":163.1,"body":"because you're not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":163.1,"endTime":166.01,"body":"the decision maker. And you're"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":163.1,"endTime":166.01,"body":"often doing things that you may"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":166.01,"endTime":169.34,"body":"not agree with. But vets are to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":166.01,"endTime":169.34,"body":"because of property law, because"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":169.34,"endTime":172.34,"body":"of ownership, we don't always"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":169.34,"endTime":172.34,"body":"get to make decisions, owners"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":172.4,"endTime":175.13,"body":"are the legal ones who can make"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":172.4,"endTime":175.13,"body":"a decision and we can't legally"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":175.13,"endTime":178.7,"body":"overrule them. And if you take"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":175.13,"endTime":178.7,"body":"that a step further, this is"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":178.7,"endTime":182.51,"body":"getting quite intense. But we"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":178.7,"endTime":182.51,"body":"can be the instruments of harm"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":182.54,"endTime":187.67,"body":"or what we consider to be harms."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":182.54,"endTime":187.67,"body":"And when our guiding principle"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":187.67,"endTime":190.25,"body":"or our ethics is telling us"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":187.67,"endTime":190.25,"body":"we're here to help an animal and"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":190.25,"endTime":194.0,"body":"then we are what we might"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":190.25,"endTime":194.0,"body":"consider hurting it. That can be"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":194.0,"endTime":198.26,"body":"incredibly destructive to us."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":194.0,"endTime":198.26,"body":"The concept of ethics rounds in"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":198.26,"endTime":201.08,"body":"vet practices can actually help"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":198.26,"endTime":201.08,"body":"vets in practice, especially"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":201.08,"endTime":203.9,"body":"with this moral distress."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":201.08,"endTime":203.9,"body":"Hindsight is a wonderful thing."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":203.9,"endTime":207.35,"body":"Yeah, and being able to sit down"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":203.9,"endTime":207.35,"body":"in a structured way to talk"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":207.35,"endTime":210.14,"body":"through not the clinical aspects"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":207.35,"endTime":210.14,"body":"of the case, because we can all"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":210.17,"endTime":213.44,"body":"go on about that forever. It's"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":210.17,"endTime":213.44,"body":"the ethical aspects of the case."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":213.44,"endTime":217.82,"body":"It's how it made us feel okay,"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":213.44,"endTime":217.82,"body":"and what we thought about it,"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":218.06,"endTime":220.58,"body":"and being able to openly talk"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":218.06,"endTime":220.58,"body":"about that with colleagues is"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":220.58,"endTime":223.55,"body":"hugely important. We all have"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":220.58,"endTime":223.55,"body":"these cases, we need to be able"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":223.55,"endTime":226.1,"body":"to talk about these with"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":223.55,"endTime":226.1,"body":"colleagues, I grant you, it's"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":226.25,"endTime":227.99,"body":"more difficult when you're not"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":226.25,"endTime":227.99,"body":"in a practice with them. But"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":227.99,"endTime":229.22,"body":"that tells me then that within"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":227.99,"endTime":229.22,"body":"that framework of doing these"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":229.22,"endTime":230.27,"body":"kind of home euthanasias, that's"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":229.22,"endTime":230.27,"body":"a framework that we need to set"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":230.27,"endTime":231.44,"body":"that up then, there needs to be"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":230.27,"endTime":231.44,"body":"a way to open the dialogue. But"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":231.44,"endTime":232.7,"body":"within practice, I think it"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":231.44,"endTime":232.7,"body":"could be hugely beneficial to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":232.7,"endTime":233.96,"body":"discuss these cases after the"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":232.7,"endTime":233.96,"body":"fact. And I know that you found"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":233.96,"endTime":235.37,"body":"this in shelter care, when we"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":233.96,"endTime":235.37,"body":"went too far with a case."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":235.4,"endTime":237.95,"body":"Everyone gets attached, and you"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":235.4,"endTime":237.95,"body":"just end up doing too much."},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":238.34,"endTime":241.61,"body":"Those are really good cases to"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":238.34,"endTime":241.61,"body":"discuss, to sit around and talk"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":241.61,"endTime":245.3,"body":"about after the fact and learn"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":241.61,"endTime":245.3,"body":"from them. So you can make those"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":245.3,"endTime":248.24,"body":"decisions as you talked about"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":245.3,"endTime":248.24,"body":"beforehand, before you go down"},{"speaker":"Karen Hiestand","startTime":248.24,"endTime":248.69,"body":"that road."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":248.72,"endTime":250.76,"body":"Yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":248.72,"endTime":250.76,"body":"lot easier to have those"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":250.85,"endTime":253.61,"body":"decision making tools in place"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":250.85,"endTime":253.61,"body":"before there's an animal in"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":253.61,"endTime":254.12,"body":"front of you."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":255.47,"endTime":258.47,"body":"If you want to hear more from"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":255.47,"endTime":258.47,"body":"Karen, ISFM veterinary members"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":258.47,"endTime":262.64,"body":"can access her lectures and our"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":258.47,"endTime":262.64,"body":"virtual Congress from 2022, and"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":262.64,"endTime":267.05,"body":"also 2023, in the event section"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":262.64,"endTime":267.05,"body":"of our portal. And now we're"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":267.05,"endTime":270.08,"body":"going over to Kelly St Denis"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":267.05,"endTime":270.08,"body":"who's talking with Dr. Alison"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":270.08,"endTime":274.31,"body":"Diesel on her JFMS clinical"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":270.08,"endTime":274.31,"body":"spotlight article, the feline"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":274.31,"endTime":277.34,"body":"skin microbiome,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":274.31,"endTime":277.34,"body":"interrelationship between health"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":277.34,"endTime":281.06,"body":"and disease. Don't forget that"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":277.34,"endTime":281.06,"body":"JFMS is an open access journal"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":281.06,"endTime":283.67,"body":"now and the link to read the"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":281.06,"endTime":283.67,"body":"full article is in the show"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":283.67,"endTime":284.33,"body":"notes."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":286.29,"endTime":289.17,"body":"There's nothing"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":286.29,"endTime":289.17,"body":"out there on allergies and cats."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":289.2,"endTime":291.21,"body":"That's exactly why I want to do"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":289.2,"endTime":291.21,"body":"something like that."},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":291.57,"endTime":293.88,"body":"And are you"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":291.57,"endTime":293.88,"body":"finding, just out of curiosity,"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":293.88,"endTime":296.04,"body":"if you're starting to see more"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":293.88,"endTime":296.04,"body":"cats coming to secondary"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":296.04,"endTime":297.75,"body":"referral practice than you used"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":296.04,"endTime":297.75,"body":"to?"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":298.17,"endTime":300.84,"body":"Yeah, for sure."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":298.17,"endTime":300.84,"body":"Definitely does seem that owners"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":300.84,"endTime":303.78,"body":"are bringing their cats in as"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":300.84,"endTime":303.78,"body":"well, recognising the fact that"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":303.78,"endTime":307.26,"body":"there is skin disease in cats."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":303.78,"endTime":307.26,"body":"And so it's nice to actually see"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":307.29,"endTime":309.78,"body":"this species starting to come"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":307.29,"endTime":309.78,"body":"into the clinics a bit more too."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":309.84,"endTime":312.42,"body":"One of the biggest frustrations"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":309.84,"endTime":312.42,"body":"right in feline dermatology is"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":312.42,"endTime":315.0,"body":"that everything really looks the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":312.42,"endTime":315.0,"body":"same and you sit there and it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":315.0,"endTime":317.07,"body":"like am I dealing with fleas or"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":315.0,"endTime":317.07,"body":"am I dealing with something"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":317.07,"endTime":319.56,"body":"other than fleas. Is it"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":317.07,"endTime":319.56,"body":"allergies? It is non allergy?"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":319.59,"endTime":321.48,"body":"Working with that is just a lot"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":319.59,"endTime":321.48,"body":"of fun."},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":322.05,"endTime":324.9,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":322.05,"endTime":324.9,"body":"really good. I'm starting to see"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":324.9,"endTime":328.02,"body":"more skin cases in my practice,"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":324.9,"endTime":328.02,"body":"too. So it's been interesting"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":328.02,"endTime":330.96,"body":"learning about all of this"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":328.02,"endTime":330.96,"body":"stuff. I think back when I was"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":330.96,"endTime":333.24,"body":"in vet college and reading the"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":330.96,"endTime":333.24,"body":"article, traditionally, our"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":333.24,"endTime":335.7,"body":"understanding of the"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":333.24,"endTime":335.7,"body":"microorganisms that live on the"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":335.7,"endTime":339.09,"body":"feline skin have been related to"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":335.7,"endTime":339.09,"body":"culture, live organisms that can"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":339.09,"endTime":342.63,"body":"successfully be cultured. The"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":339.09,"endTime":342.63,"body":"article will discuss this more"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":342.63,"endTime":345.72,"body":"advanced technique, so the next"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":342.63,"endTime":345.72,"body":"generation sequencing. So I"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":345.72,"endTime":348.06,"body":"wondered if you could tell us a"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":345.72,"endTime":348.06,"body":"little bit more about that and"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":348.06,"endTime":351.12,"body":"what the benefits are compared"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":348.06,"endTime":351.12,"body":"to what we've used in the past."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":351.42,"endTime":353.1,"body":"So the benefits"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":351.42,"endTime":353.1,"body":"of the next generation"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":353.1,"endTime":356.61,"body":"sequencing is that it really"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":353.1,"endTime":356.61,"body":"does give us a hugely clear"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":356.61,"endTime":360.15,"body":"picture about what actually is"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":356.61,"endTime":360.15,"body":"living on our skin, as opposed"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":360.15,"endTime":362.7,"body":"to being limited to things that"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":360.15,"endTime":362.7,"body":"will grow out on a culture"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":362.7,"endTime":365.61,"body":"plate, the next generation"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":362.7,"endTime":365.61,"body":"sequencing really picks up on"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":365.97,"endTime":369.33,"body":"everything on the DNA level. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":365.97,"endTime":369.33,"body":"it's basically able to detect"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":369.36,"endTime":372.78,"body":"all the different organisms, not"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":369.36,"endTime":372.78,"body":"just ones that are going out, as"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":372.78,"endTime":375.54,"body":"opposed to the historical"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":372.78,"endTime":375.54,"body":"studies, that you'd maybe pick"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":375.54,"endTime":379.17,"body":"up a handful of organisms that"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":375.54,"endTime":379.17,"body":"are part of whatever disease"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":379.17,"endTime":382.26,"body":"process or just the quote,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":379.17,"endTime":382.26,"body":"unquote, normal skin flora of"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":382.26,"endTime":385.59,"body":"dogs, cats, people, etc. The"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":382.26,"endTime":385.59,"body":"next generation sequencing"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":385.59,"endTime":389.16,"body":"really takes it a huge step"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":385.59,"endTime":389.16,"body":"further, where it's identifying,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":389.22,"endTime":393.33,"body":"like at times hundreds and 1000s"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":389.22,"endTime":393.33,"body":"of organisms from between"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":393.33,"endTime":397.53,"body":"bacteria, fungal organisms,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":393.33,"endTime":397.53,"body":"viruses, that are all part of"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":397.53,"endTime":400.89,"body":"the normal cutaneous microbiome."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":397.53,"endTime":400.89,"body":"So we're just learning a lot"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":400.89,"endTime":404.13,"body":"more, and finding the massive"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":400.89,"endTime":404.13,"body":"diversity of these organisms"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":404.13,"endTime":405.27,"body":"that really live on the skin."},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":405.72,"endTime":407.64,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":405.72,"endTime":407.64,"body":"almost mind boggling. And then"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":407.64,"endTime":412.05,"body":"on top of that, in the article,"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":407.64,"endTime":412.05,"body":"you talk about the microbiome,"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":412.05,"endTime":415.2,"body":"but also the metabolome. That's"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":412.05,"endTime":415.2,"body":"another aspect of it, because"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":415.2,"endTime":417.72,"body":"it's not just about the"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":415.2,"endTime":417.72,"body":"microbiome is it, you're trying"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":417.72,"endTime":418.95,"body":"to look at other things."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":419.11,"endTime":421.3,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":419.11,"endTime":421.3,"body":"Right now, the next generation"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":421.3,"endTime":423.85,"body":"sequencing really focuses"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":421.3,"endTime":423.85,"body":"primarily on what are the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":423.85,"endTime":427.03,"body":"organisms that are there. These"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":423.85,"endTime":427.03,"body":"newer studies coming out are"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":427.03,"endTime":429.52,"body":"even looking at it from the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":427.03,"endTime":429.52,"body":"standpoint of okay, what are the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":429.52,"endTime":432.43,"body":"organisms? But then also, what"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":429.52,"endTime":432.43,"body":"are they producing? What are"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":432.43,"endTime":435.19,"body":"their metabolites? What are the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":432.43,"endTime":435.19,"body":"proteins that are there as well?"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":435.22,"endTime":437.71,"body":"Because it's not just about the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":435.22,"endTime":437.71,"body":"bugs, it's about the, what are"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":437.71,"endTime":440.68,"body":"they doing? And how are they"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":437.71,"endTime":440.68,"body":"interacting with the cutaneous"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":440.68,"endTime":443.26,"body":"environment. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":440.68,"endTime":443.26,"body":"impact on grooming in this"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":443.26,"endTime":446.5,"body":"species is might be at least a"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":443.26,"endTime":446.5,"body":"big reason for why we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":446.5,"endTime":448.96,"body":"some of those differences,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":446.5,"endTime":448.96,"body":"especially if we're talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":448.96,"endTime":452.2,"body":"about states of health and"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":448.96,"endTime":452.2,"body":"disease. If we're seeing a shift"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":452.41,"endTime":456.31,"body":"in the microbiome, how does that"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":452.41,"endTime":456.31,"body":"relate to the grooming practices"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":456.31,"endTime":458.86,"body":"of the cat? Are we seeing it"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":456.31,"endTime":458.86,"body":"because they're, as an example,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":458.86,"endTime":461.89,"body":"an itchy cat? And so we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":458.86,"endTime":461.89,"body":"seeing a lot more grooming where"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":461.89,"endTime":465.07,"body":"they're now translating the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":461.89,"endTime":465.07,"body":"normal microbiome into something"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":465.1,"endTime":468.94,"body":"else? Are we seeing more oral"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":465.1,"endTime":468.94,"body":"cavity Flora coming in? That's"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":468.94,"endTime":472.63,"body":"taking over the cutaneous aspect"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":468.94,"endTime":472.63,"body":"of things, and or vice verse, is"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":472.63,"endTime":475.63,"body":"the cutaneous microbiome now"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":472.63,"endTime":475.63,"body":"infiltrating the oral cavity and"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":475.63,"endTime":479.14,"body":"the GI tract, I think we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":475.63,"endTime":479.14,"body":"gonna see a lot of interrelated"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":479.17,"endTime":482.65,"body":"conditions here. And already in"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":479.17,"endTime":482.65,"body":"human medicine, they talk about"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":482.65,"endTime":486.61,"body":"the impact of the gut microbiome"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":482.65,"endTime":486.61,"body":"on the health of the skin, I"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":486.61,"endTime":488.98,"body":"think, especially if you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":486.61,"endTime":488.98,"body":"talking about a species where"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":488.98,"endTime":493.81,"body":"grooming is part of their just"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":488.98,"endTime":493.81,"body":"normal behaviour, the changes"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":493.81,"endTime":496.42,"body":"and the impacts that we might"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":493.81,"endTime":496.42,"body":"see as part of that, and in"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":496.42,"endTime":498.52,"body":"different states of health and"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":496.42,"endTime":498.52,"body":"diseases is, I think, going to"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":498.52,"endTime":499.24,"body":"be really interesting."},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":499.51,"endTime":501.97,"body":"Reflecting off"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":499.51,"endTime":501.97,"body":"the GI stuff that we know, what"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":501.97,"endTime":505.45,"body":"is your sense about how"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":501.97,"endTime":505.45,"body":"antibiotics are going to be"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":505.78,"endTime":510.1,"body":"possibly negatively impacting"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":505.78,"endTime":510.1,"body":"the skin microbiome? And how to"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":510.13,"endTime":513.16,"body":"practitioners balance that with,"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":510.13,"endTime":513.16,"body":"well, I think the cat might have"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":513.49,"endTime":516.7,"body":"a bacterial pyoderma, which is"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":513.49,"endTime":516.7,"body":"more difficult to diagnose in a"},{"speaker":"Kelly St Denis","startTime":516.7,"endTime":517.66,"body":"cat than a dog."},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":518.11,"endTime":520.39,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":518.11,"endTime":520.39,"body":"one of those things where it's"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":520.39,"endTime":522.28,"body":"weighing the risk versus the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":520.39,"endTime":522.28,"body":"benefit. And if we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":522.28,"endTime":524.83,"body":"benefiting, or is it you're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":522.28,"endTime":524.83,"body":"treating an active infection? I"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":524.83,"endTime":527.62,"body":"think we're going to have to"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":524.83,"endTime":527.62,"body":"take that into a well, the cat"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":527.62,"endTime":530.71,"body":"needs antibiotics at this time,"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":527.62,"endTime":530.71,"body":"but now downstream to your point"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":530.71,"endTime":534.01,"body":"of how long does it take to get"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":530.71,"endTime":534.01,"body":"back. And not only the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":534.01,"endTime":537.31,"body":"microbiome standpoint, but the"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":534.01,"endTime":537.31,"body":"metabolism part of things. So"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":537.31,"endTime":539.92,"body":"that's something that in talking"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":537.31,"endTime":539.92,"body":"with the folks that are doing"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":539.92,"endTime":543.28,"body":"the GI research that can be"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":539.92,"endTime":543.28,"body":"impacted for an extended period"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":543.28,"endTime":545.95,"body":"of time, I think this is an area"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":543.28,"endTime":545.95,"body":"that warrants a lot of"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":545.95,"endTime":550.18,"body":"consideration. This is an area"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":545.95,"endTime":550.18,"body":"that especially from the ability"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":550.18,"endTime":554.38,"body":"to use, I guess more biological"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":550.18,"endTime":554.38,"body":"agents, as opposed to just"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":554.38,"endTime":557.59,"body":"straight up antibiotics as an"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":554.38,"endTime":557.59,"body":"example. So things that might"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":557.59,"endTime":561.52,"body":"not necessarily fully negative"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":557.59,"endTime":561.52,"body":"impact overall, but might help"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":561.52,"endTime":564.82,"body":"to take out the more problematic"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":561.52,"endTime":564.82,"body":"pathogenic organisms that we're"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":564.82,"endTime":568.42,"body":"looking at it, can we do better"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":564.82,"endTime":568.42,"body":"at targeting our therapeutics"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":568.42,"endTime":571.99,"body":"from either a topical standpoint"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":568.42,"endTime":571.99,"body":"or a going into the whole realm"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":571.99,"endTime":574.39,"body":"of prebiotic/probiotic"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":571.99,"endTime":574.39,"body":"standpoint? And is that"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":574.39,"endTime":578.2,"body":"something that we can tap into"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":574.39,"endTime":578.2,"body":"as far as being able to build a"},{"speaker":"Alison Diesel","startTime":578.2,"endTime":579.34,"body":"bit more balance? Yeah."},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":584.309,"endTime":586.606,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":584.309,"endTime":586.606,"body":"listening. If you're an ISFM"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":586.66,"endTime":590.052,"body":"member, please don't forget you"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":586.66,"endTime":590.052,"body":"can access the full version of"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":590.106,"endTime":593.388,"body":"the podcast and all the other"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":590.106,"endTime":593.388,"body":"ISFM member benefits including"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":593.443,"endTime":596.67,"body":"congress recordings, monthly"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":593.443,"endTime":596.67,"body":"webinars and our clinical club"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":596.724,"endTime":599.623,"body":"as well as the discussion forum"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":596.724,"endTime":599.623,"body":"and much much more at"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":599.678,"endTime":602.905,"body":"portal.icatcare.org. Virtual"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":599.678,"endTime":602.905,"body":"Access for Members to our 2023"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":602.96,"endTime":606.187,"body":"Dublin Congress has also just"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":602.96,"endTime":606.187,"body":"gone live. So don't forget to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":606.241,"endTime":609.523,"body":"start catching up on that. If"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":606.241,"endTime":609.523,"body":"you're looking for more CPD in"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":609.578,"endTime":612.531,"body":"August, we also have our"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":609.578,"endTime":612.531,"body":"quarterly Cat Friendly Clinic"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":612.586,"endTime":615.758,"body":"webinar, that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":612.586,"endTime":615.758,"body":"going live on the 15th. Please"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":615.813,"endTime":619.204,"body":"do join ISFM’s own Laura Watson,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":615.813,"endTime":619.204,"body":"and she's going to be talking"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":619.259,"endTime":622.322,"body":"about a cat friendly home,"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":619.259,"endTime":622.322,"body":"helping the caregivers get it"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":622.377,"endTime":625.768,"body":"right. Keep an eye out on ISFM's"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":622.377,"endTime":625.768,"body":"social media for more details"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":625.822,"endTime":629.268,"body":"about how to join. We'll be back"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":625.822,"endTime":629.268,"body":"again next month. If you don't"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":629.323,"endTime":632.222,"body":"want to miss out please make"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":629.323,"endTime":632.222,"body":"sure you've signed up to"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":632.277,"endTime":635.34,"body":"Chattering With ISFM on your"},{"speaker":"Nathalie Dowgray","startTime":632.277,"endTime":635.34,"body":"favourite podcast platform."}]}