WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:13.110 Cailin: Welcome everyone to Faith and Purpose podcast. 00:00:13.870 --> 00:00:19.050 Each episode of this podcast contains the personal testimony of an ordinary person 00:00:19.070 --> 00:00:21.820 transformed by an extraordinary God. 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.640 My name is Kaelyn and I'm here to introduce this podcast 00:00:25.649 --> 00:00:27.179 for my friend Jesse Duke. 00:00:27.790 --> 00:00:33.259 Jesse is a husband, father, author, life recovery guide, lay counselor, 00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:37.820 and small group leader, but his most important role is disciple. 00:00:38.259 --> 00:00:39.689 As a disciple of Jesus. 00:00:40.184 --> 00:00:44.285 Jesse created this podcast to help other believers tell their faith stories. 00:00:44.825 --> 00:00:48.625 We'll be hearing the personal testimonies of all sorts of people 00:00:48.625 --> 00:00:52.565 who have one thing in common, Jesus has transformed their lives. 00:00:53.460 --> 00:00:57.529 Jesus used parables because he created us to learn best through story. 00:00:57.989 --> 00:01:02.779 And as we listen to how God has worked in others lives, we find encouragement 00:01:02.790 --> 00:01:05.069 and inspiration for our own faith walk. 00:01:05.559 --> 00:01:09.940 Whether you are already a believer or just a curious seeker, we believe that 00:01:09.949 --> 00:01:14.249 as you listen to these stories, you will be encouraged on your own faith journey. 00:01:14.539 --> 00:01:18.959 We are sure that God can speak to you through one of these episodes and that you 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:23.049 will see that our heavenly father truly works all things together for our good. 00:01:23.380 --> 00:01:25.289 When we simply love and trust him. 00:01:25.990 --> 00:01:29.360 If you are currently going through a trial, we believe that you will come 00:01:29.360 --> 00:01:34.149 to see that your troubles, heartbreaks, and failures are not gravestones, but 00:01:34.179 --> 00:01:36.749 stepping stones into new life in Christ. 00:01:37.169 --> 00:01:39.179 Here's Jesse with today's guest. 00:01:54.155 --> 00:01:57.575 Jesse: Welcome everybody to Faith and Purpose podcast. 00:01:57.615 --> 00:01:58.885 I'm very excited today. 00:01:58.885 --> 00:02:03.365 I have my new friend, Clay Klima, who's going to tell his faith story. 00:02:03.375 --> 00:02:04.485 How are you doing today, Clay? 00:02:05.465 --> 00:02:07.495 Clay: Oh, I'm doing really well, Jesse. 00:02:07.505 --> 00:02:09.305 Thanks for having me on. 00:02:09.645 --> 00:02:10.765 it's a real blessing. 00:02:12.475 --> 00:02:16.935 Jesse: I've been looking forward to this because I interviewed your wife, last 00:02:16.935 --> 00:02:22.045 week and I'm going to have, your, her episode and your episode, and then we're 00:02:22.215 --> 00:02:24.245 going to have an episode with both of you. 00:02:24.245 --> 00:02:25.905 So I look forward to that. 00:02:26.115 --> 00:02:27.355 So tell us your story. 00:02:28.245 --> 00:02:35.955 Clay: yeah, so my story starts in, Arlington, Virginia, where I was born, 00:02:37.135 --> 00:02:40.925 and I'm the oldest of four children. 00:02:42.875 --> 00:02:49.225 I have a younger brother, and I was born to two parents, obviously that 00:02:49.225 --> 00:02:54.983 were, they're still together I was a very scared child, a very anxious child. 00:02:55.393 --> 00:03:00.535 And, we grew up in a good home and it was, I was always afraid 00:03:00.795 --> 00:03:02.825 even at a very young age. 00:03:02.825 --> 00:03:04.125 I was afraid of. 00:03:05.322 --> 00:03:09.574 my parents, if they would go off to work that they wouldn't come home 00:03:10.104 --> 00:03:12.024 or something would happen to them. 00:03:12.674 --> 00:03:15.346 and just afraid of them. 00:03:15.606 --> 00:03:19.912 something happening to them or really you name it. 00:03:19.922 --> 00:03:24.842 I had just I guess you could say like sensitive, really sensitive. 00:03:25.381 --> 00:03:31.671 person and I think I can remember, at one point it was, I think the 00:03:31.831 --> 00:03:35.191 desert storm war had just started. 00:03:35.771 --> 00:03:40.542 And I remember it didn't turn out to be much, but I remember 00:03:40.572 --> 00:03:43.182 it was a war and I was worried. 00:03:43.182 --> 00:03:48.253 and I asked my mom about God and what to do about this. 00:03:48.253 --> 00:03:49.903 And I told her I was scared and. 00:03:50.371 --> 00:03:53.381 And I just remember her saying, we can say our prayers and 00:03:53.579 --> 00:03:55.249 we'd say our say, the prayer. 00:03:55.309 --> 00:03:56.739 Now I lay me down to sleep. 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:00.749 I forget how to say it now that if my soul before if take my soul 00:04:00.749 --> 00:04:02.209 before I wake or something like that. 00:04:02.209 --> 00:04:06.716 so starting off, basically, I was really always scared. 00:04:06.716 --> 00:04:09.612 And I had this, fear all the time. 00:04:09.892 --> 00:04:14.408 and we were brought up as a cat. 00:04:14.438 --> 00:04:15.638 We were Catholic. 00:04:15.698 --> 00:04:17.378 I went to Catholic school. 00:04:17.818 --> 00:04:24.268 and I remember, in those days that I, I didn't really make a connection, 00:04:24.488 --> 00:04:29.892 And so my parents, I wouldn't, nobody really would talk to me about God the 00:04:29.892 --> 00:04:32.672 way that I wanted to know about him. 00:04:32.922 --> 00:04:37.002 I was, I, along with being very, scared a lot of the time and 00:04:37.002 --> 00:04:40.422 anxious, I was always very curious. 00:04:40.432 --> 00:04:45.632 Like I wanted to know, the nature of God at a young age. 00:04:45.632 --> 00:04:48.244 And I, I can, I think. 00:04:49.309 --> 00:04:54.603 Growing up the, I had a really good childhood, and it was 00:04:54.663 --> 00:04:56.003 like a storybook almost. 00:04:56.033 --> 00:05:00.263 there was issues I had, we had our issues and stuff, but, it was two parents and 00:05:00.283 --> 00:05:04.255 me and my brother and we had, we would go to church, we were involved in the 00:05:04.255 --> 00:05:06.795 church, but it was part of the school. 00:05:07.061 --> 00:05:13.799 And, at one point I was an altar boy, but for me, it was never a connection. 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:18.429 like I didn't have that person to give me the answer to the questions. 00:05:18.429 --> 00:05:24.291 It was just like, this is what we do, and the focus and I can remember the 00:05:24.291 --> 00:05:28.281 focus in Catholicism a lot is on, rules. 00:05:28.711 --> 00:05:34.811 And I would ask the priest questions about God, I think one time I remember 00:05:35.173 --> 00:05:40.318 the priest, We were learning about confession and, our little second grade 00:05:40.318 --> 00:05:44.159 teacher or whatever brought us over to the school and, said, this is what you 00:05:44.159 --> 00:05:48.538 do when you're, you're going to go in this little room and talk to the priest 00:05:48.908 --> 00:05:50.348 and he's going to forgive your sins. 00:05:50.539 --> 00:05:54.602 And I just remember asking a question like, Why don't I just talk to God? 00:05:56.222 --> 00:05:59.869 And I think I was just a kid, and I didn't understand. 00:05:59.869 --> 00:06:01.689 I was just like, I just had a teacher. 00:06:01.699 --> 00:06:03.769 I was like, can I just do, can I just talk to God? 00:06:04.469 --> 00:06:05.619 I, can I just ask him? 00:06:05.619 --> 00:06:08.117 And I got in a lot of trouble that. 00:06:08.447 --> 00:06:11.072 and I remember being really hurt by that. 00:06:11.072 --> 00:06:12.722 And I remember that I did it anyway. 00:06:12.732 --> 00:06:16.212 And I went in and I told him, my little things is, Oh, I, got in a fight with 00:06:16.212 --> 00:06:20.262 my brother or whatever it was, and he told me to say, 10 Hail Marys. 00:06:20.735 --> 00:06:23.485 so I came out of the confessional and I just remember feeling 00:06:23.505 --> 00:06:26.772 angry, just that's, this is it. 00:06:26.772 --> 00:06:28.702 I just got to say this prayer 10 times. 00:06:28.702 --> 00:06:34.053 And, and so it created this kind of dynamic of. 00:06:35.583 --> 00:06:38.976 and that anger I think just grew. 00:06:39.411 --> 00:06:40.991 I, I was also I don't know. 00:06:40.991 --> 00:06:42.141 I just struggled a lot. 00:06:42.211 --> 00:06:47.331 I struggled a lot with people and other kids and I didn't 00:06:47.431 --> 00:06:49.441 want to follow directions. 00:06:49.876 --> 00:06:56.747 And so through that learning process, I got my young mind and body were just 00:06:56.757 --> 00:07:02.287 learning about how, like, okay, I'm a problem and I got to go when I asked 00:07:02.287 --> 00:07:09.168 these questions like about God, I think another one was at that time, the 00:07:09.168 --> 00:07:12.038 Catholic Church was with the doctrine of. 00:07:12.453 --> 00:07:17.745 if aborted, if a child's aborted, it goes to hell is what they taught at 00:07:17.745 --> 00:07:23.975 this church and I just, I remember just not understanding about that 00:07:24.085 --> 00:07:27.945 and didn't like, first of all, didn't know what really, what did 00:07:28.235 --> 00:07:32.345 even think about that, but I asked questions about that, why would it be? 00:07:32.365 --> 00:07:34.755 And I was just told that's the way it is. 00:07:35.394 --> 00:07:36.834 So it created this, 00:07:37.218 --> 00:07:43.764 basically this problem with authority and also underneath that problem, like 00:07:43.764 --> 00:07:50.034 by proxy, a problem with God, in a sense, and so I just checked out at 00:07:50.034 --> 00:07:53.844 that time and I know animosity against. 00:07:54.509 --> 00:08:00.785 Our Catholic brothers or the church there and at all right now, I just, this 00:08:00.795 --> 00:08:05.415 is just my part of the part of my story and the way things unfolded because my 00:08:05.415 --> 00:08:10.814 personality, I was afraid all the time I had this anxiety and also I was curious 00:08:10.814 --> 00:08:16.775 and, rambunctious and just for whatever reason it didn't click for me and, and 00:08:16.775 --> 00:08:20.595 so my parents, we would still go to church cause I would go to school there. 00:08:21.088 --> 00:08:25.938 During the week and we go to church on Sundays and I was in the Boy Scouts there. 00:08:25.938 --> 00:08:30.668 So it was a lot of, I think it was a lot of more of a social, 00:08:31.350 --> 00:08:31.590 Jesse: Yeah. 00:08:32.025 --> 00:08:34.553 Clay: it was more of a social activity. 00:08:35.033 --> 00:08:36.663 and the religion happened to be. 00:08:37.068 --> 00:08:43.901 a prerequisite for joining these social groups, I think for my parents, and 00:08:44.386 --> 00:08:47.806 so that's all to say that nothing wrong with the Catholic church at all. 00:08:48.284 --> 00:08:51.164 And anybody out there listening, that's Catholic. 00:08:51.403 --> 00:08:51.843 I love you. 00:08:51.843 --> 00:08:53.482 And there's no beef there. 00:08:53.512 --> 00:08:54.852 It just at all. 00:08:54.892 --> 00:08:59.332 It's just that for me, no one took the time to explain things to me. 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:01.930 In a way that I needed to be explained. 00:09:02.290 --> 00:09:07.305 So it created this problem with authority and that kind of followed 00:09:07.305 --> 00:09:10.501 me throughout that time period. 00:09:10.801 --> 00:09:15.271 and so I just went along with the motions and I think that's what my family did too. 00:09:15.281 --> 00:09:19.751 we would, show up to church and then I just, I remember I just love the 00:09:19.751 --> 00:09:23.371 donuts in the hall and I would just look forward to that and we would 00:09:23.371 --> 00:09:25.291 even go to the seven 30 church. 00:09:25.351 --> 00:09:29.721 Because that early in the morning, they didn't sing. 00:09:30.211 --> 00:09:31.781 And it was like, you get in and out. 00:09:31.791 --> 00:09:34.911 And I remember that's the framework that we had. 00:09:35.141 --> 00:09:38.151 and my mom, she would, she was involved in the church and she would 00:09:38.161 --> 00:09:39.801 be what they called like a lectern. 00:09:40.339 --> 00:09:45.189 And, so she would come up and read the, scripture and I was the altar boy and 00:09:45.189 --> 00:09:50.139 there were moments there where I felt really I felt the presence of God. 00:09:50.139 --> 00:09:52.589 And I had these moments of this is good. 00:09:52.589 --> 00:09:55.149 Like my mom's here, she's carrying the book down. 00:09:55.149 --> 00:09:58.549 There's my dad, my brother in the front row, I'm in the altar boy. 00:09:59.099 --> 00:10:02.789 And so I had these moments and I, but then I had these questions and 00:10:02.789 --> 00:10:08.408 I couldn't, I never made this bridge to, having that personal relationship. 00:10:08.812 --> 00:10:10.802 I didn't feel like that was available. 00:10:11.191 --> 00:10:12.491 I guess at that time. 00:10:12.691 --> 00:10:15.576 and so we all just went through the motions. 00:10:15.646 --> 00:10:22.828 And I think at one point the church, the priest said to my parents, 00:10:23.093 --> 00:10:26.473 or he said, the priest said on a Christmas service that basically the 00:10:26.473 --> 00:10:28.488 priest said, the Santa is not real. 00:10:28.808 --> 00:10:36.005 And that really sent waves through my house and we, my parents were upset cause 00:10:36.005 --> 00:10:37.775 we were still pretty young at that time. 00:10:37.775 --> 00:10:41.775 And, for the priest is a person that, he's involved in the school and everything. 00:10:41.775 --> 00:10:43.875 So he's saying that Santa's not real. 00:10:44.261 --> 00:10:48.839 It upset my parents, and they were like, I don't know, not, they didn't just 00:10:48.839 --> 00:10:51.939 stop going, but it upset that sermon. 00:10:51.949 --> 00:10:53.309 It was like on Christmas Eve and. 00:10:53.772 --> 00:10:59.835 It just seemed like upsetting and then, I think, fast forward, I stayed 00:10:59.835 --> 00:11:06.395 in the Catholic school and I got confirmed and all of those things and 00:11:06.843 --> 00:11:10.663 nowhere in there was Jesus a factor. 00:11:11.083 --> 00:11:15.933 And so as I continue to tell my story, I just want to frame it as 00:11:15.933 --> 00:11:21.468 this sort of search for It was never, it never ended up in a personal 00:11:21.468 --> 00:11:23.788 relationship with Jesus Christ. 00:11:24.478 --> 00:11:28.808 and so all I remember of my confirmation is the sushi that they had afterward. 00:11:28.838 --> 00:11:31.368 And it was the first time I ever ate sushi. 00:11:32.198 --> 00:11:34.128 My dad gave me this gold necklace. 00:11:35.153 --> 00:11:37.353 And I was like, Oh, I got a gold necklace now. 00:11:37.513 --> 00:11:38.883 And that's all I remember. 00:11:38.933 --> 00:11:46.993 I had no connection to the underlying, I had no connection, to God and to 00:11:46.993 --> 00:11:49.283 the, to, to what it's all about. 00:11:49.843 --> 00:11:51.943 And it was all like I said, surface level. 00:11:51.973 --> 00:11:56.883 So I do remember one time, I think the first time that I 00:11:56.883 --> 00:11:58.763 remember feeling God's presence. 00:11:59.678 --> 00:12:03.718 I happened to go on this, mission trip and it was on a 00:12:03.718 --> 00:12:07.498 summertime and nobody else went. 00:12:07.508 --> 00:12:08.718 None of my friends went. 00:12:08.838 --> 00:12:11.888 It was just me and some of the church people and the priest. 00:12:12.158 --> 00:12:16.668 And we went to a very impoverished area of Luray Caverns. 00:12:17.513 --> 00:12:20.783 In, Virginia and I was all alone. 00:12:20.783 --> 00:12:24.603 So I think my mom just, she needed me to go because there was no one to watch me. 00:12:24.813 --> 00:12:27.353 And so she was like, you're going to this trip. 00:12:27.813 --> 00:12:30.223 because there was something else going on and I just needed 00:12:30.223 --> 00:12:31.523 to have someone to watch me. 00:12:32.213 --> 00:12:37.723 So here I am, it was like two overnight trips and there was a bunch of people, 00:12:37.723 --> 00:12:43.983 but I didn't know them, the other people there, and we were putting tin 00:12:44.003 --> 00:12:45.803 on the top of these people's roofs. 00:12:47.203 --> 00:12:50.043 These like trailer homes that they didn't have any, anything. 00:12:50.693 --> 00:12:54.513 And I just remember like loving it. 00:12:55.183 --> 00:13:00.643 I remember looking at the people in these like really old people that couldn't 00:13:00.643 --> 00:13:03.733 get out of their house and they were, hooked up to ventilators and stuff. 00:13:03.783 --> 00:13:05.673 and I just felt really good. 00:13:05.683 --> 00:13:07.843 It was like the middle of the summer and everyone was 00:13:07.843 --> 00:13:09.303 complaining, but I just loved it. 00:13:10.193 --> 00:13:10.913 I love the work. 00:13:10.913 --> 00:13:15.883 And I remember talking to the family and something happened to me on that trip. 00:13:15.903 --> 00:13:15.923 Yeah. 00:13:16.948 --> 00:13:22.868 And one, I think it was one morning I was just eating breakfast and 00:13:22.868 --> 00:13:25.628 there was the priest was in the front making the announcements of 00:13:25.628 --> 00:13:27.228 the day and what we're going to do. 00:13:27.688 --> 00:13:31.518 And I just felt completely swept away. 00:13:31.648 --> 00:13:36.573 Like this cool feel like feeling just. 00:13:37.213 --> 00:13:42.983 God was just there and I just started bawling and I just felt like I fell 00:13:42.983 --> 00:13:47.403 out of my seat I was just eating cereal little kid eating cereal I was like 00:13:47.403 --> 00:13:53.043 sixth seventh grade or something like that and I just felt God overwhelmed 00:13:53.043 --> 00:14:00.323 me and I just remember even at that age feeling like that was That this 00:14:00.323 --> 00:14:03.333 was something and then people were all over me and they were checking on me. 00:14:03.333 --> 00:14:04.033 Are you okay? 00:14:04.033 --> 00:14:05.083 And I just don't know what happened. 00:14:05.083 --> 00:14:06.013 I just fell out. 00:14:06.383 --> 00:14:11.903 and I just remember being overwhelmed with tears of joy and I was just 00:14:11.903 --> 00:14:14.128 crying and just Didn't know why. 00:14:15.518 --> 00:14:18.738 And I think that's something that sticks out in my mind, looking back 00:14:19.128 --> 00:14:21.298 at an encounter, with the Lord. 00:14:22.738 --> 00:14:29.198 And it was just a totally pure, good feeling all the way around, a feeling of 00:14:29.228 --> 00:14:32.278 being held and supported and belonging. 00:14:33.168 --> 00:14:36.988 And it was like, I've never felt, I never felt anything like that. 00:14:37.438 --> 00:14:38.718 And I just remember that moment. 00:14:38.728 --> 00:14:43.098 And then, the trip ended and came back home and no one talked to me about it, 00:14:43.098 --> 00:14:45.268 or I didn't talk to anyone else about it. 00:14:45.268 --> 00:14:47.638 It just was this private moment, this moment that 00:14:47.648 --> 00:14:49.188 happened that was private to me. 00:14:49.878 --> 00:14:51.438 Jesse: And how old were you at this time? 00:14:52.023 --> 00:14:57.263 Clay: I, I must be like, I'd say whatever, however you're old in like seventh grade. 00:14:57.878 --> 00:14:58.568 Jesse: 12 00:14:58.783 --> 00:14:59.743 Clay: Something like that. 00:14:59.743 --> 00:15:02.713 10, 11, 12 in there somewhere 00:15:03.428 --> 00:15:03.788 Jesse: Okay. 00:15:04.393 --> 00:15:10.613 Clay: I just remember feeling like a knowing like that was God and he came. 00:15:10.663 --> 00:15:11.593 He loves me. 00:15:12.513 --> 00:15:17.023 He knows me and he loves me and I belong to him. 00:15:17.448 --> 00:15:17.898 Jesse: Wow. 00:15:18.443 --> 00:15:22.573 Clay: I just all of that happened and it was over in a flash. 00:15:23.083 --> 00:15:25.713 And then I forgot about it and everyone else forgot about it. 00:15:25.713 --> 00:15:28.023 And I never talked about it until recently. 00:15:28.453 --> 00:15:33.663 So that happened and then flash forward back to this scenario. 00:15:33.663 --> 00:15:37.503 So I finished out seventh grade, still just going through the motions, 00:15:38.043 --> 00:15:41.103 we're missing church a little bit more because my parents are a little bit 00:15:41.123 --> 00:15:43.183 disillusioned with the whole Santa thing. 00:15:43.183 --> 00:15:47.113 And, when that foundation gets shaken a little bit, all the 00:15:47.513 --> 00:15:49.113 pleasantries in the outward. 00:15:50.133 --> 00:15:54.873 showing up, the church life is, if it's not rooted in God, it doesn't last. 00:15:55.153 --> 00:16:00.583 If it's just a social thing, it wavers like any social thing. 00:16:00.583 --> 00:16:01.623 So I think that's what happened. 00:16:02.143 --> 00:16:04.383 But then keep, keeping going. 00:16:04.783 --> 00:16:09.733 I start, I've still have developed this sort of Problem with authority 00:16:11.623 --> 00:16:16.543 and not much connection, like daily personal connection with 00:16:16.583 --> 00:16:18.703 God, then nine 11 happened. 00:16:19.543 --> 00:16:25.923 And we went to church that day after nine 11 happened. 00:16:26.513 --> 00:16:28.323 and we lived in DC, so it was really cool. 00:16:28.333 --> 00:16:34.113 Like we actually saw the, we saw the plane go over our house 00:16:34.143 --> 00:16:35.353 before it hit the Pentagon. 00:16:35.888 --> 00:16:36.428 and 00:16:38.818 --> 00:16:41.918 I didn't see that, but my brother did because he was going to school. 00:16:42.523 --> 00:16:44.083 Where he could see it at that time. 00:16:44.113 --> 00:16:46.593 I was, my parents were in DC at that time. 00:16:46.593 --> 00:16:50.383 And I was at my, I was at that time I was in high school and I 00:16:50.383 --> 00:16:53.743 was going to a Catholic high school and I was having a lot of issues. 00:16:53.803 --> 00:16:59.943 but as far as my family goes, we went to church that day and the priest, I 00:16:59.943 --> 00:17:06.203 think, I forget what he said, but it was something like, unfortunately, 00:17:06.213 --> 00:17:14.863 all those souls jumping out of the building went This is what he said. 00:17:14.863 --> 00:17:19.363 I remember he said, if they, if those people weren't saved, he was 00:17:19.363 --> 00:17:20.963 like, say, talking about the tragedy. 00:17:20.963 --> 00:17:23.923 And he was talking about the people that we watched jump out of 00:17:23.923 --> 00:17:26.003 the building and to their death. 00:17:26.493 --> 00:17:34.123 And he was saying the real tragedy is if those people weren't saved, they went, if 00:17:34.123 --> 00:17:35.703 they weren't baptized, they went to hell. 00:17:38.483 --> 00:17:40.193 And my mom just got up and left. 00:17:41.253 --> 00:17:42.403 she, she grabbed my hand. 00:17:42.493 --> 00:17:42.883 She. 00:17:43.728 --> 00:17:46.368 Her and my dad and my brother, they just walk. 00:17:46.418 --> 00:17:48.528 As soon as he said that, they just walked out. 00:17:50.618 --> 00:17:53.438 they couldn't deal with that. 00:17:54.358 --> 00:17:57.618 and then we never went back and then church was just not a 00:17:57.618 --> 00:17:59.598 thing anymore after that day. 00:17:59.848 --> 00:18:00.958 never talked about it. 00:18:01.638 --> 00:18:05.918 and it just disappeared from my life. 00:18:06.048 --> 00:18:12.338 the Catholic church and what took its place was this sort of angst. 00:18:12.763 --> 00:18:15.423 And this anger that I had. 00:18:16.543 --> 00:18:23.183 And I think that during that time, at least on some unconscious level, I was 00:18:23.203 --> 00:18:30.153 being fed by the spirit and connected to the spirit through interactions 00:18:30.153 --> 00:18:32.303 with the church and that kind of thing. 00:18:32.323 --> 00:18:35.253 And friends that I had that were in the church that were at different stages 00:18:35.263 --> 00:18:36.823 of belief and different families. 00:18:36.823 --> 00:18:45.603 And so when that ended, there was this void and this sort of hollow feeling core. 00:18:46.658 --> 00:18:52.338 And I just remember I started, I started to really want to be somebody else. 00:18:52.908 --> 00:18:54.928 I wish that I was somebody else. 00:18:54.928 --> 00:18:56.898 I wish that I was more popular. 00:18:56.918 --> 00:18:58.158 I wish that I had 00:19:00.448 --> 00:19:01.588 more skills. 00:19:02.298 --> 00:19:03.008 and 00:19:05.388 --> 00:19:11.758 it, I really started to, I think as a teenager, you really need that guidance. 00:19:12.443 --> 00:19:15.233 in a way that is really paramount. 00:19:15.333 --> 00:19:22.343 and although I continued going to Catholic school, there, the mentions 00:19:22.343 --> 00:19:25.043 of God and things like that were gone. 00:19:25.443 --> 00:19:27.733 And it was just a school at that point. 00:19:27.853 --> 00:19:32.183 And, And there wasn't that lasting relationship that I had 00:19:32.183 --> 00:19:33.553 with God that I could go to. 00:19:33.623 --> 00:19:37.783 And so basically I just started doing things that were really 00:19:40.393 --> 00:19:41.413 out of my character. 00:19:41.803 --> 00:19:47.913 I tried to start to, I would start, I started to, I started getting fights. 00:19:47.913 --> 00:19:49.563 I started to skip school. 00:19:50.483 --> 00:19:54.903 I started to look for that sense of belonging. 00:19:56.783 --> 00:20:03.283 And although I never really felt like I belonged anywhere, even before, I 00:20:03.283 --> 00:20:05.293 think, like I said, on some levels I was. 00:20:06.728 --> 00:20:10.458 But I started to look towards, 00:20:12.458 --> 00:20:16.978 I started to hang out with people that were doing a lot of 00:20:16.978 --> 00:20:19.938 drugs, smoking a lot of weed. 00:20:20.268 --> 00:20:22.078 I didn't fit in with the. 00:20:22.948 --> 00:20:30.088 I never felt good enough to be in with the in crowd at school, I 00:20:30.088 --> 00:20:31.878 wasn't good at talking to girls. 00:20:31.878 --> 00:20:36.048 I didn't have a lot of self confidence, didn't have a lot of 00:20:36.048 --> 00:20:39.958 self esteem or self compassion. 00:20:40.068 --> 00:20:46.098 I had braces throughout most of high school and it was just I was still growing 00:20:46.098 --> 00:20:49.503 into my body and my body was bigger in certain places, like it was just 00:20:50.923 --> 00:20:56.513 weird and I obviously had all these new hormones coming into my body and 00:20:56.513 --> 00:21:01.493 interests and stuff and and I just didn't really feel like I had a lot 00:21:01.493 --> 00:21:10.488 of friends and I ended up looking to through a friend of a friend. 00:21:10.798 --> 00:21:16.448 I had this one friend and he was pretty like, much like me, socially awkward, 00:21:17.588 --> 00:21:23.188 teenager, just trying to get through things and do well and, He had a 00:21:23.198 --> 00:21:28.988 brother and his brother was in a gang and through one thing or another, I, 00:21:29.028 --> 00:21:35.918 we ended up sometimes hanging out with his brother and his brother was heavily 00:21:35.918 --> 00:21:43.328 into like drugs and gang activity. 00:21:43.408 --> 00:21:44.178 And so 00:21:46.658 --> 00:21:48.838 I just felt enamored with that. 00:21:49.248 --> 00:21:53.798 I felt like that was that I was looking for something else, someone else. 00:21:54.243 --> 00:22:01.483 To be anyone but me, anyone but this scared, awkward kid that I 00:22:01.483 --> 00:22:06.363 was, and I was starting to have a lot more conflict with my parents. 00:22:08.363 --> 00:22:12.233 And my parents didn't have that same social structure that we had where 00:22:12.233 --> 00:22:19.103 all my friends were in connected and that same social structure I had when 00:22:19.103 --> 00:22:23.853 we were plugged into the Catholic Church, it was different because they 00:22:23.853 --> 00:22:28.533 could trust the people that I was with and that was gone by high school. 00:22:29.368 --> 00:22:33.708 And so they just, they didn't have that. 00:22:33.718 --> 00:22:36.128 So they didn't trust me to go out with people. 00:22:36.458 --> 00:22:39.738 And so I was starting to clash with my parents a lot. 00:22:39.748 --> 00:22:43.788 Like I said, skipping school, hanging out with these people that they didn't know. 00:22:44.828 --> 00:22:50.738 And, I remember that I started to smoke weed 00:22:52.738 --> 00:22:53.298 and 00:22:55.428 --> 00:23:04.868 that became delightful to it got me out of my, it got me out of myself. 00:23:05.793 --> 00:23:11.823 In a way, and so a lot of my life from that point on was, it was a search 00:23:11.833 --> 00:23:17.693 for God, but it was also a search for something else outside of myself. 00:23:18.333 --> 00:23:23.933 and so that kind of void and that kind of churning angst, the weed gave that a 00:23:23.933 --> 00:23:29.323 way to me a way to just forget about it. 00:23:30.013 --> 00:23:33.493 And so slowly I stopped hanging out with my one friend and 00:23:33.493 --> 00:23:34.493 I started hanging out with. 00:23:34.928 --> 00:23:37.388 His brother in this gang. 00:23:38.768 --> 00:23:40.488 and then things got really bad. 00:23:40.858 --> 00:23:47.238 And I started, I found that sense of belonging in this group and they 00:23:47.238 --> 00:23:51.388 were doing really bad stuff and it things ramped up really quickly. 00:23:51.978 --> 00:23:54.668 And, they were dealing drugs. 00:23:54.948 --> 00:23:56.648 This was during the rave time. 00:23:57.738 --> 00:24:00.498 so they were, there was ecstasy. 00:24:00.838 --> 00:24:09.698 And, so I started to do a dual dovetail, just on one hand, the 00:24:09.698 --> 00:24:12.638 drugs gave me this, that sense of 00:24:14.738 --> 00:24:19.418 God in a way it's you're outside of yourself, you're getting these 00:24:19.418 --> 00:24:23.878 experiences and these kind of really. 00:24:24.678 --> 00:24:31.018 intense moments where you're like on ecstasy or, your brain's flooded with 00:24:31.048 --> 00:24:36.928 this, these chemicals and you feel like that's, it's similar to God. 00:24:36.988 --> 00:24:41.428 You think that, you think that, and I wasn't thinking that at that time, but 00:24:44.308 --> 00:24:45.118 it was just, 00:24:47.278 --> 00:24:48.078 it was, that was that. 00:24:48.088 --> 00:24:50.948 So I was starting to go from weed to ecstasy. 00:24:52.448 --> 00:24:56.188 And then at the same time, they were doing these. 00:24:56.688 --> 00:25:02.588 Gang conflicts that I got basically they jumped me into the gang and 00:25:04.678 --> 00:25:08.018 a bunch of them beat you up And then you're like a part of their gang and 00:25:08.018 --> 00:25:15.048 then I would do Stuff with them going around harassing people getting in 00:25:15.058 --> 00:25:19.938 fights on other gangs Really dangerous stuff, and I just didn't care. 00:25:19.958 --> 00:25:26.228 I just became more and more reckless and You And I kept doing more and 00:25:26.228 --> 00:25:33.718 more drugs, and then that led to the psychedelic drugs, which now I know 00:25:33.718 --> 00:25:36.718 that those open up demonic forces. 00:25:37.563 --> 00:25:40.343 And make you susceptible to those, things, 00:25:42.343 --> 00:25:47.913 but that the drugs took the place of what I was searching for. 00:25:47.913 --> 00:25:52.093 This, the game kind of gave me that belonging that I was searching for. 00:25:52.113 --> 00:25:59.043 And then the drugs gave me that, those God like moments that I was trying to get. 00:26:00.928 --> 00:26:01.818 And that's all we did. 00:26:02.128 --> 00:26:06.728 We would fight people and do drugs and sell drugs and, this kind of thing. 00:26:06.728 --> 00:26:12.038 And meanwhile, I had my family back at home who I had pretty much disowned and 00:26:12.038 --> 00:26:15.978 I was acting like a different person, dressing differently, talking differently, 00:26:18.248 --> 00:26:19.768 cussing my parents out. 00:26:20.148 --> 00:26:24.308 at one point, like a rival at one point, a rival gang found out where 00:26:24.328 --> 00:26:25.828 I lived and they attacked my house. 00:26:27.163 --> 00:26:27.183 Jesse: All 00:26:27.873 --> 00:26:30.013 Clay: and that was things started to all spiral. 00:26:31.163 --> 00:26:37.323 And then I went to jail a couple times, was arrested a couple times. 00:26:37.903 --> 00:26:42.913 went to jail and then finally I got, 00:26:44.913 --> 00:26:50.733 I got, so much happened in this time, my parents had bought me a car in the gang, 00:26:50.813 --> 00:26:58.023 I allowed someone in the gang to race my car and they totaled it and miraculously 00:26:58.023 --> 00:27:00.353 I wasn't hurt, but then they fled. 00:27:00.353 --> 00:27:02.753 So then I got charged with all the damage. 00:27:02.753 --> 00:27:04.753 And, was lying to my parents. 00:27:04.753 --> 00:27:06.983 I was just going out, I was skipping school. 00:27:07.033 --> 00:27:07.643 And then. 00:27:10.233 --> 00:27:18.753 Finally, I got basically, I got caught on school with weapons and I was, I 00:27:18.753 --> 00:27:25.153 went into a very brutal fight with this kid that I didn't like in my school 00:27:26.073 --> 00:27:34.363 and I took a lock, a combination lock grabbed it in my fist and I, went up to 00:27:34.363 --> 00:27:39.113 him and I just started, we just started fighting, but I wasn't fighting fair. 00:27:39.143 --> 00:27:39.823 I had that. 00:27:40.263 --> 00:27:44.273 And I don't know, it's shameful to talk about, but this is part of what happened. 00:27:44.273 --> 00:27:47.893 And this is, I just have to say this stuff. 00:27:47.893 --> 00:27:54.163 So I, I destroyed his face and then I think someone else was 00:27:54.163 --> 00:27:57.813 hitting me and basically I got expelled for that incident. 00:27:59.033 --> 00:28:02.873 And at the time I thought that was a warranted, After that, then him 00:28:03.033 --> 00:28:06.933 and other people were all still chasing me, but I got expelled. 00:28:06.953 --> 00:28:13.633 And then I, and then from there I ran away and I went on a, I just left my house. 00:28:13.663 --> 00:28:17.723 I just left my house, disappeared, didn't tell my parents. 00:28:17.783 --> 00:28:21.493 And I went with some other member of this gang and stayed 00:28:21.493 --> 00:28:23.193 at his house and did drugs. 00:28:23.243 --> 00:28:28.323 and if for the love of God, one friend that I told you that All the way back 00:28:28.323 --> 00:28:30.673 in the beginning that his brother is the one that I started hanging out 00:28:30.673 --> 00:28:38.253 with that one friend knew where I was at and he had the goodness to call 00:28:38.253 --> 00:28:41.263 my mom and told him where I was at. 00:28:42.453 --> 00:28:49.493 And so my mom showed up, took me out of there, put me in a rehab, 00:28:51.393 --> 00:28:57.103 intensive rehab, and that was the first time I was exposed to. 00:28:57.204 --> 00:29:04.373 Modern psychology, postmodernist thought, thought forms of modern psychology. 00:29:04.373 --> 00:29:09.613 And I was in this group setting and it was a gestalt group for substance abuse. 00:29:09.613 --> 00:29:10.893 It was an intensive thing. 00:29:10.893 --> 00:29:16.193 And I got drug tested and, I was on probation too, at that time. 00:29:16.483 --> 00:29:19.783 And that really. 00:29:21.008 --> 00:29:26.659 formed, something in me that I did well there with the structure and 00:29:27.689 --> 00:29:29.059 with the drug testing and everything. 00:29:29.059 --> 00:29:31.819 I actually just stopped doing the, those things and 00:29:34.769 --> 00:29:36.059 got things more on track. 00:29:36.499 --> 00:29:37.119 And. 00:29:37.804 --> 00:29:44.164 It just set the, it set a seed in me that there is good possible, and being in 00:29:44.184 --> 00:29:50.184 other people, being around other people that were trying to get clean other kids 00:29:50.494 --> 00:29:52.544 and the main therapist was really good. 00:29:52.544 --> 00:29:58.724 I liked him and so it worked well for me and helped me to get clean. 00:29:58.724 --> 00:30:03.594 and then I finished that and Was able to graduate high school 00:30:03.614 --> 00:30:05.744 in this alternative program. 00:30:06.384 --> 00:30:10.644 Basically just like where all the bad kids go so that. 00:30:11.324 --> 00:30:14.624 so that they can finish school and get their GED. 00:30:15.394 --> 00:30:19.664 So all that I went from all that from that Catholic school and fell all 00:30:19.664 --> 00:30:21.674 the way down and then public school. 00:30:21.674 --> 00:30:25.604 And then I graduated from this alternative program while I was 00:30:25.604 --> 00:30:27.164 in probation and in therapy. 00:30:27.564 --> 00:30:28.064 And, 00:30:30.204 --> 00:30:35.554 I was still after that finished, I still found a way to go back to 00:30:37.004 --> 00:30:42.834 normal and was just still using drugs. 00:30:42.894 --> 00:30:51.504 And still finding that empty part, that emptiness, that fear, that I just couldn't 00:30:51.504 --> 00:30:55.064 shake, that I wanted to do something else. 00:30:55.064 --> 00:30:56.504 I wanted to be somebody else. 00:30:56.854 --> 00:31:02.634 Still, I just never felt like I was good and I was enough. 00:31:03.304 --> 00:31:04.494 I never felt that way. 00:31:05.094 --> 00:31:07.574 Even after all that, even after graduating. 00:31:07.844 --> 00:31:11.484 And by that point, all the things that I had done just added to 00:31:11.484 --> 00:31:13.824 the shame and the emptiness. 00:31:14.674 --> 00:31:19.284 And it became this sort of it's just like a hollow kind of core 00:31:19.434 --> 00:31:20.874 that you're trying to get away from. 00:31:20.874 --> 00:31:26.903 And you invent new personalities to try to bolster yourself against 00:31:28.944 --> 00:31:29.874 the emptiness inside. 00:31:30.749 --> 00:31:34.319 you're also looking for God in a way. 00:31:34.999 --> 00:31:40.819 And I got involved in like hip hop. 00:31:40.889 --> 00:31:46.879 So I started doing, I started wanting, I got involved in I was very, I was one 00:31:46.879 --> 00:31:49.029 of those guys that was really confused. 00:31:49.449 --> 00:31:52.929 I would, have the Che Guevara fist bump. 00:31:53.299 --> 00:31:57.519 but at the same time, mommy and daddy are taking care of me. 00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:57.789 And, 00:31:58.909 --> 00:32:02.269 Jesse: So let me interrupt for a second, just for a timeline here. 00:32:02.929 --> 00:32:09.329 you went to this treatment, and you were able to graduate from 00:32:09.329 --> 00:32:13.379 high school, and you moved back in with your parents after that. 00:32:14.049 --> 00:32:15.109 Clay: yeah, yep. 00:32:15.509 --> 00:32:17.399 Moved back in with my parents and 00:32:17.454 --> 00:32:21.314 Jesse: started back with the drugs and seeking. 00:32:21.749 --> 00:32:27.049 Clay: yeah, started back with the seeking and the drugs and, I didn't want to go 00:32:27.049 --> 00:32:32.659 to college, ended up going to college at my parents behest, I'm noticing 00:32:32.659 --> 00:32:36.359 the time now, so I ended up going to college and I got really involved in 00:32:36.409 --> 00:32:44.549 what I consider social justice, trying to go and help oppressed people. 00:32:44.569 --> 00:32:48.559 And all the time I was not some, I didn't submit to any authority. 00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:52.469 So I had this big thing against the government and authority. 00:32:52.499 --> 00:32:56.869 And, I went to so I went to this college and they just 00:32:57.219 --> 00:32:58.439 pumped me up with that stuff. 00:32:58.844 --> 00:33:01.954 They have class, they have classes, I pretty much got a degree in it. 00:33:02.438 --> 00:33:02.678 Jesse: Yeah. 00:33:03.459 --> 00:33:05.819 Clay: I think my degree was political science, but 00:33:07.969 --> 00:33:15.589 all throughout that thread of loneliness and emptiness was there and I was more 00:33:15.589 --> 00:33:17.849 forming myself against what I didn't like, 00:33:18.648 --> 00:33:21.078 which was the mainstream establishment. 00:33:22.358 --> 00:33:27.128 And at that point I had developed a negative view of Christianity and 00:33:27.128 --> 00:33:30.298 would bad mouth, Christianity and, 00:33:31.138 --> 00:33:35.028 the ways that I felt like it was holding up the system, or 00:33:35.028 --> 00:33:37.108 whatever, or the traditional values. 00:33:37.108 --> 00:33:43.158 And I had this connection with Christianity and racism and 00:33:45.538 --> 00:33:46.778 bigotry and all these things. 00:33:46.778 --> 00:33:52.408 And I viewed myself as this open book and I was in, got heavy into all these 00:33:52.408 --> 00:33:56.858 philosophies of Nietzsche and other things, and was really deep into all of 00:33:56.858 --> 00:34:04.123 that sort of philosophical nowhere land and I, that carried me throughout college. 00:34:04.753 --> 00:34:10.423 And then I just, again, this feeling of wanting to be somebody else to get away, 00:34:10.693 --> 00:34:12.383 I decided to go to live in Thailand. 00:34:14.063 --> 00:34:20.263 So when I graduated high school, when I graduated college, I had 500 in my 00:34:20.263 --> 00:34:22.213 pocket, I've got on a plane to Thailand. 00:34:22.933 --> 00:34:26.543 And the next 10 years of my life were spent overseas. 00:34:28.278 --> 00:34:31.558 And I could do, I could talk more and more about that. 00:34:31.858 --> 00:34:33.048 but I don't want to waste the time. 00:34:33.048 --> 00:34:40.768 So in, in Asia, what I did, what I did was a lot of mainly just running away 00:34:41.398 --> 00:34:49.508 from my family, running away from who I was, running into trying to be somebody 00:34:49.508 --> 00:34:54.398 else, trying to do something else and being embedded in another culture. 00:34:54.658 --> 00:34:55.308 And, 00:34:55.608 --> 00:35:01.158 while I was there, I got involved in Eastern thought, philosophy, all of 00:35:01.158 --> 00:35:04.538 these things, Buddhism pretty much. 00:35:05.138 --> 00:35:11.048 And I would go to these temples and I had no idea what I was doing. 00:35:11.188 --> 00:35:12.038 I just was. 00:35:12.733 --> 00:35:15.813 Just sampling anything that I would come my way. 00:35:15.893 --> 00:35:23.183 any new thing, new experience, I was also just trying to fulfill so many different. 00:35:25.323 --> 00:35:30.283 Like lusts and desires and other things, just trying to 00:35:30.283 --> 00:35:32.723 max out on life kind of thing. 00:35:32.943 --> 00:35:38.403 but I started to intake in those Buddhist thought, and the thoughts of 00:35:38.403 --> 00:35:42.733 reincarnation and the thoughts of, some of the beliefs that the Buddhists have. 00:35:42.733 --> 00:35:46.798 and I was meeting people in the, in that lived by these beliefs. 00:35:48.218 --> 00:35:52.728 and was embedded in a culture, a collectivist culture that believed that. 00:35:52.858 --> 00:35:55.408 And I really just embedded into it. 00:35:55.408 --> 00:35:58.898 Like I became really good at being like a chameleon, and I would just, 00:35:59.268 --> 00:36:02.128 if I was whoever I was with, wherever I was at, I would just pretend. 00:36:04.508 --> 00:36:07.368 Because I felt like I was nothing, nobody. 00:36:08.468 --> 00:36:13.118 so I learned Thai and later I moved to Vietnam and I had a 00:36:13.118 --> 00:36:17.378 motorcycle company there and sold motorcycles and imported them. 00:36:17.428 --> 00:36:22.758 and I was just doing life at 150 miles an hour. 00:36:23.298 --> 00:36:26.488 it was, I don't, I could go more and more, but there was no 00:36:26.488 --> 00:36:29.998 semblance or thought really of God. 00:36:30.758 --> 00:36:38.568 It was just, Long binges of drinking, crazy behaviors, I was 00:36:38.578 --> 00:36:42.528 teaching at one point, I was doing all kinds of stuff over there, but 00:36:42.528 --> 00:36:44.878 I was not involved in my family. 00:36:45.728 --> 00:36:50.018 long story short, the mafia in Vietnam began to extort me for 00:36:50.018 --> 00:36:51.318 the business that I had there. 00:36:51.948 --> 00:36:56.228 And they were chasing by the time I left, they were chasing me around with swords. 00:36:56.688 --> 00:37:03.688 I also, I was just involved in a lot of not good behavior, things that are, I'm 00:37:03.688 --> 00:37:06.898 not proud of treating women not well. 00:37:08.188 --> 00:37:12.048 and it all culminated and blew up in my face and I had to go, and this 00:37:12.048 --> 00:37:13.988 was like over a seven year period. 00:37:14.458 --> 00:37:16.368 And I made, I think I made two trips home. 00:37:18.368 --> 00:37:20.698 Jesus was nowhere in the picture of all this. 00:37:21.473 --> 00:37:25.123 I had to stay at a friend's house that was in the embassy and my mom 00:37:25.123 --> 00:37:29.463 and I called my mom and I said, mom, I just need you to get me out of here. 00:37:30.473 --> 00:37:33.373 And she bought me a ticket and I left like a day or two later, 00:37:33.723 --> 00:37:38.223 escorted to the airport, came home, crash landed again at her house. 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:44.732 Then things were very dark for a very long time. 00:37:45.402 --> 00:37:47.162 I went into a deep depression. 00:37:47.762 --> 00:37:49.662 I knew that I had to reckon with. 00:37:50.532 --> 00:37:54.342 My life, I knew that I couldn't keep living, doing whatever I wanted. 00:37:55.252 --> 00:37:56.632 But I didn't know what to do. 00:37:56.992 --> 00:37:59.782 I didn't know what guidance was. 00:37:59.782 --> 00:38:01.602 I didn't even know what I had done wrong. 00:38:01.622 --> 00:38:07.452 I wasn't really willing to like, it took me a long time to do like inventory, 00:38:07.462 --> 00:38:16.262 but for time sake, I'll just try to encapsulate this is I ended up crash 00:38:16.312 --> 00:38:20.492 landed back here by that time, my parents had retired to Fernandina. 00:38:22.082 --> 00:38:23.142 And we're living on the island. 00:38:23.152 --> 00:38:24.192 That's how I ended up here. 00:38:24.592 --> 00:38:29.632 So when I got back, I was living with them and I was like, 30 something. 00:38:29.972 --> 00:38:38.422 I had nothing, no, no friends, no car, no job, no skill, no, no viable skill 00:38:38.432 --> 00:38:41.402 sets that I could say anything about. 00:38:41.742 --> 00:38:43.822 I had no concept of God. 00:38:43.822 --> 00:38:46.892 I, Jesus was the furthest thing from my mind. 00:38:46.902 --> 00:38:48.322 I was full of. 00:38:49.797 --> 00:38:55.607 bitterness, resentment, depression, that empty feeling was still there. 00:38:55.607 --> 00:39:00.227 That hole was still there and bigger and darker. 00:39:00.947 --> 00:39:03.777 And I knew by that point, I knew I couldn't just throw 00:39:03.777 --> 00:39:05.577 drugs in it and make it go away. 00:39:06.207 --> 00:39:07.887 I couldn't throw alcohol in it. 00:39:08.907 --> 00:39:11.027 And I just knew because I had done that. 00:39:11.367 --> 00:39:12.017 I'd done that. 00:39:12.877 --> 00:39:13.837 I couldn't just. 00:39:14.977 --> 00:39:19.337 implant myself in a new group, a new, a gang or a new culture, 00:39:19.627 --> 00:39:22.287 I knew that wouldn't satisfy it. 00:39:22.927 --> 00:39:26.157 My relationships with my family or that were pretty much destroyed. 00:39:26.157 --> 00:39:28.067 I had pretty much shunned them. 00:39:28.837 --> 00:39:34.377 For seven years by that point and didn't talk to them, have any understanding 00:39:34.377 --> 00:39:35.847 of anything going on in their lives. 00:39:37.087 --> 00:39:40.857 so I just knew I needed, I knew that I, nothing I knew nothing that I 00:39:42.287 --> 00:39:50.097 could do, but what I decided to do was to learn how to do counseling. 00:39:50.957 --> 00:39:55.357 And I thought back about that one group that I did and decided to go for that. 00:39:55.917 --> 00:40:00.187 So I put all my eggs in that basket. 00:40:00.847 --> 00:40:05.727 And, it was more like I didn't want to do it, but I just felt like 00:40:06.607 --> 00:40:09.047 this is what you need to do this. 00:40:09.297 --> 00:40:19.347 so I, what I did was I packed up and I moved to Colorado, to go 00:40:19.347 --> 00:40:23.027 to, this school called Naropa. 00:40:23.027 --> 00:40:23.331 Naropa. 00:40:23.822 --> 00:40:28.492 Which is a quote unquote alternative school. 00:40:28.532 --> 00:40:32.222 It was, they offered a master's in mental health counseling. 00:40:32.872 --> 00:40:38.102 And I had a good friend of mine that I did that hip hop stuff with that 00:40:38.132 --> 00:40:39.852 was living out there and had a family. 00:40:40.902 --> 00:40:43.252 So it seemed like a good move. 00:40:43.802 --> 00:40:45.021 so I went out there. 00:40:45.672 --> 00:40:49.272 And this was, 00:40:52.052 --> 00:40:57.002 early thirties and I just turned 40 just to give you an idea. 00:40:57.042 --> 00:40:59.852 So this was early thirties, to mid thirties. 00:41:00.452 --> 00:41:04.382 And that world out there was a 00:41:06.382 --> 00:41:07.272 different world. 00:41:07.532 --> 00:41:09.692 It's a lot of light and love. 00:41:09.692 --> 00:41:15.082 And you have a lot of people, in Naropa, especially my school was 00:41:15.932 --> 00:41:18.392 actually created by Buddhist monks. 00:41:18.432 --> 00:41:18.852 And. 00:41:20.087 --> 00:41:21.737 Like postmodernist thinkers. 00:41:21.747 --> 00:41:26.447 So those are who made the school like, so I would have chosen a different school, 00:41:27.187 --> 00:41:32.507 now, but I ended up out there and you're in this beautiful setting of the Rockies 00:41:33.661 --> 00:41:34.621 Jesse: Is this in Boulder. 00:41:34.937 --> 00:41:35.317 Clay: Boulder. 00:41:35.317 --> 00:41:35.717 Yeah. 00:41:36.637 --> 00:41:37.927 Boulder, it's hippie town. 00:41:38.487 --> 00:41:42.837 Lots of trusts of far ends, lots of, take over our fists and stuff 00:41:42.837 --> 00:41:44.757 and all of that kind of thing. 00:41:45.067 --> 00:41:50.787 but anyway, I went for it and 00:41:52.787 --> 00:41:56.941 felt really good for a little while, out there learning this stuff. 00:41:58.332 --> 00:42:00.382 and then, some 00:42:02.652 --> 00:42:04.182 kind of old demons came out. 00:42:04.182 --> 00:42:09.092 So I started getting opened up to all this sort of extension on Eastern 00:42:09.102 --> 00:42:12.642 thought that I had, I said, why I was drawn to that school is because 00:42:12.642 --> 00:42:17.252 of all the time I spent in Asia and they carry that into, mindfulness 00:42:17.272 --> 00:42:20.852 training and, experiential counseling. 00:42:21.602 --> 00:42:22.222 and 00:42:24.372 --> 00:42:25.152 it is. 00:42:27.772 --> 00:42:32.402 As far from biblical as you can get, I'll say that in, that, 00:42:34.942 --> 00:42:42.282 but it took a turn to me turning inward and beginning to understand, beginning 00:42:42.282 --> 00:42:46.442 to actually look at this hole that I felt inside of me, because prior to 00:42:46.442 --> 00:42:48.722 that, it had been driving my whole life. 00:42:49.202 --> 00:42:55.662 Like not only my lusts and my desires and my, passions had been driving me, but also 00:42:56.132 --> 00:43:01.702 just that whole, trying to cover it up, trying to fit in, trying to be enough. 00:43:02.212 --> 00:43:06.452 And so for the first time with that program, they made me as a 00:43:06.452 --> 00:43:09.422 part of that program, I had to go through counseling myself. 00:43:10.483 --> 00:43:12.423 and that was a game changer because. 00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:18.150 It really helped that was the first time I was able to sit down with somebody and 00:43:18.160 --> 00:43:24.604 be Me and although those relationships weren't guided by biblical principles and 00:43:24.614 --> 00:43:33.535 those counselors weren't christians They were good counselors and they doing what 00:43:33.535 --> 00:43:38.785 you're similar what you're doing here with me right now Is they would listen and let 00:43:38.785 --> 00:43:47.790 me speak Talk and help me to learn to be still and observe my inner the working 00:43:47.790 --> 00:43:54.470 pieces of Buddhism I got from the program, the meditation part, the mindfulness part. 00:43:54.470 --> 00:43:58.390 So in Asia, I was involved in the fetishization of Buddhism 00:43:58.390 --> 00:44:00.770 and, going to these temples and taking selfies and acting. 00:44:01.215 --> 00:44:04.565 Acting like different, but I never actually tried it out. 00:44:05.105 --> 00:44:07.995 So this way I was trying it out, but I was also doing counseling. 00:44:08.645 --> 00:44:16.435 And the school is, they promote whatever you want to promote, 00:44:17.065 --> 00:44:19.135 whatever you feel like is your truth. 00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:25.210 That's what they're all about, and so I got it heavily Embedded 00:44:25.210 --> 00:44:27.550 in that and lost my way again. 00:44:27.560 --> 00:44:28.430 No structure. 00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:34.470 No submission No fear of the lord only fear of people fear of who can accept me. 00:44:34.600 --> 00:44:35.340 Can I do this? 00:44:35.390 --> 00:44:35.920 Can I? 00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.440 Finally, get my life together on my own. 00:44:39.500 --> 00:44:45.900 And those practices, they all point back to you that the truth is somewhere in you. 00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:51.560 And if you just sit with it long enough and learn more about yourself 00:44:51.560 --> 00:44:56.280 and do enough shadow work and do enough counseling that you're 00:44:56.280 --> 00:45:00.985 going to, you're going to save you pretty much is what they teach. 00:45:01.015 --> 00:45:03.915 this is what modern counseling teaches. 00:45:04.350 --> 00:45:06.080 Unfortunately, some forms of it. 00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:08.190 and so that's what I was learning. 00:45:08.240 --> 00:45:10.250 And I was learning that for myself. 00:45:10.590 --> 00:45:13.150 And then I was learning that to teach other people that. 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:15.880 so guess what happened? 00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:18.350 I start looking at myself for real. 00:45:19.700 --> 00:45:20.290 And guess what? 00:45:20.290 --> 00:45:29.500 I saw a big old hole and emptiness and not good. 00:45:29.540 --> 00:45:30.620 And I flipped out. 00:45:30.650 --> 00:45:31.470 I freaked out. 00:45:32.330 --> 00:45:33.240 I went on a. 00:45:34.450 --> 00:45:35.750 I went on a drug binge. 00:45:36.600 --> 00:45:42.160 I got my hands on some, somebody's ADD meds and some of those 00:45:42.190 --> 00:45:45.360 dispensaries and I just went haywire. 00:45:45.410 --> 00:45:52.450 I went haywire like at the time I was, at the time I was taking care of my friend's 00:45:52.450 --> 00:45:58.450 house and I just trashed the place and he was away and then we had a big falling 00:45:58.450 --> 00:46:05.180 out and then I almost failed out of school and the teachers, obviously they can see. 00:46:05.490 --> 00:46:09.630 so the lady in charge of my program, this was like a year into it, the lady 00:46:09.630 --> 00:46:13.620 calls me in and I just told her, I was like, I can't tell the difference between 00:46:13.670 --> 00:46:15.530 what's me and what's everybody else. 00:46:15.630 --> 00:46:16.170 I can't. 00:46:17.150 --> 00:46:21.480 And she was like, I can't basically based on what I said to her, she said, I 00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:23.840 can't ask you, this isn't going to work. 00:46:24.740 --> 00:46:27.250 I can't in ethical standards. 00:46:28.235 --> 00:46:32.895 pass you to go to the next level of this master's program because you're having 00:46:32.895 --> 00:46:36.175 this crisis or psychosis or whatever. 00:46:37.075 --> 00:46:42.815 And, during that time I would take all these ADD meds and stay up all 00:46:42.815 --> 00:46:47.585 night and climb the mountains and think I was getting close to the 00:46:50.025 --> 00:46:54.995 high universe, power, the nature, a lot of it is like nature worship. 00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.480 and the you in the universe and and so at one hand I'm going through this 00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:05.790 psychosis, drug fueled, I'm smoking this really potent marijuana that they have 00:47:05.790 --> 00:47:07.300 out there that you can buy anywhere. 00:47:07.773 --> 00:47:12.933 And I'm getting fueled with all this look inside yourself and sit down and 00:47:12.943 --> 00:47:14.693 meditate, find the truth in yourself. 00:47:15.153 --> 00:47:18.463 I'm looking at that and seeing the truth inside of me is nothing that 00:47:18.463 --> 00:47:20.333 I really that I can find here. 00:47:20.443 --> 00:47:22.557 That's worth a dime. 00:47:23.003 --> 00:47:28.243 And then on top of that, there's all this, spirit guides and find your 00:47:28.583 --> 00:47:30.650 this, that or the other, whatever. 00:47:30.740 --> 00:47:32.630 And so it just sent me into a spiral. 00:47:33.755 --> 00:47:38.885 And then I ended up failing the program and it was a huge, I was like, 00:47:38.915 --> 00:47:40.275 I can't believe this happened again. 00:47:41.445 --> 00:47:45.035 I didn't go through my whole story, but there in between this time, there's 00:47:45.035 --> 00:47:47.875 a few other launches and failure. 00:47:47.925 --> 00:47:52.725 It's like getting back up and then starting a whole new life. 00:47:53.260 --> 00:47:54.910 And then an epic failure. 00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:56.730 There's a few of those to get to this one. 00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:03.490 And then this one happened and something told me to just go home again. 00:48:03.910 --> 00:48:08.730 Cause I had nothing, no confidence or nothing to stand on. 00:48:08.780 --> 00:48:13.560 I was just following whatever everyone else was telling me to do, 00:48:13.720 --> 00:48:15.450 whatever everyone else was doing. 00:48:15.470 --> 00:48:18.320 I was doing that and it just kept leading me to nothing. 00:48:19.610 --> 00:48:20.090 So 00:48:22.110 --> 00:48:24.350 COVID hit at that time as well. 00:48:24.730 --> 00:48:25.080 And. 00:48:25.660 --> 00:48:28.970 It was a convenient reason to go home. 00:48:29.143 --> 00:48:32.167 And so I packed up live. 00:48:32.543 --> 00:48:37.983 Basically that life exploded and I went home, drove home because of COVID. 00:48:38.133 --> 00:48:40.953 But the truth is not COVID. 00:48:40.993 --> 00:48:43.273 What took me home was same 00:48:45.413 --> 00:48:46.543 set circumstances. 00:48:46.543 --> 00:48:50.203 And then I got home and I had that to cover me. 00:48:51.363 --> 00:48:58.293 And so now I'm like 36, 37 back at home again, not with no degree. 00:48:58.503 --> 00:49:00.643 And of course I wasn't truthful with my family. 00:49:02.003 --> 00:49:02.823 About why. 00:49:03.163 --> 00:49:06.703 That the fact that I had almost, that I've pretty much failed out this program. 00:49:08.723 --> 00:49:11.803 And then I went out in the ocean. 00:49:13.043 --> 00:49:16.673 I don't know what I was doing, but I think I was on some kind of self destruct. 00:49:16.683 --> 00:49:22.493 I took a surfboard out in the ocean at hurricane force winds and tumbled 00:49:22.493 --> 00:49:25.633 over and separated my patella. 00:49:25.833 --> 00:49:28.033 So like one, one part of my leg went that way. 00:49:28.033 --> 00:49:29.413 The other part went the other way 00:49:29.783 --> 00:49:30.053 Jesse: Oh. 00:49:30.843 --> 00:49:32.963 Clay: and I pushed it back on together. 00:49:32.963 --> 00:49:33.338 They're like. 00:49:33.728 --> 00:49:34.988 Mel Gibson on the beach. 00:49:34.988 --> 00:49:37.208 People were like, looking at me like I was crazy. 00:49:37.208 --> 00:49:39.758 And I walked home and then ate dinner with my family. 00:49:39.758 --> 00:49:41.918 And later my knee was like this. 00:49:42.448 --> 00:49:44.018 So I had to go to the hospital. 00:49:44.278 --> 00:49:49.628 And then I was, and then I was basically chair bound at my parents house 00:49:50.868 --> 00:49:55.438 during COVID having failed out of this program, not having told them that 00:49:57.578 --> 00:50:03.588 with nothing, no girlfriend, no family, no friends, and a bunch of addictions. 00:50:05.765 --> 00:50:10.952 And I just remember feeling like I want to die. 00:50:11.182 --> 00:50:11.982 I guess this is it. 00:50:11.992 --> 00:50:15.342 Like all the time too, I realized I'm mad at God. 00:50:15.962 --> 00:50:16.722 I'm angry. 00:50:17.282 --> 00:50:18.532 My heart is hard. 00:50:18.882 --> 00:50:20.162 It's hard to the world. 00:50:20.162 --> 00:50:21.312 I don't know what love is. 00:50:21.342 --> 00:50:23.322 I don't know what intimacy is. 00:50:24.552 --> 00:50:32.172 don't know my, here I am approaching 40 and I've done all this stuff 00:50:32.172 --> 00:50:34.042 and nothing has satisfied me. 00:50:35.272 --> 00:50:40.232 Nothing has helped me with this emptiness, this nothingness that I feel. 00:50:41.912 --> 00:50:47.142 Even drugs at that point, Drugs, different relationships, girls, 00:50:47.242 --> 00:50:49.682 different countries, different jobs. 00:50:50.752 --> 00:50:53.202 I got really good at pretending and lying and doing all that 00:50:53.202 --> 00:50:55.632 stuff and none of it helped. 00:50:56.132 --> 00:50:59.542 And so I just felt like maybe I just was a mistake. 00:50:59.662 --> 00:51:00.362 I was a mistake. 00:51:01.072 --> 00:51:02.932 Maybe I just wasn't supposed to be here. 00:51:04.132 --> 00:51:10.217 So I got in that frame and I was just Also forced to stay at my room. 00:51:10.977 --> 00:51:15.357 So I couldn't just run out and do activities. 00:51:15.367 --> 00:51:19.127 So I was like forced to be alone in this room with all of that. 00:51:19.707 --> 00:51:23.097 And I just felt again, I had to do it. 00:51:23.187 --> 00:51:27.354 I just felt this like wind come over me and I was like, okay, I'm going 00:51:27.364 --> 00:51:31.114 to just get my life together again, but I'm going to do it for real. 00:51:31.184 --> 00:51:35.294 And I'm going to stop everything, So I stopped trying to smoke weed. 00:51:35.294 --> 00:51:36.134 I stopped drinking. 00:51:36.134 --> 00:51:37.274 I stopped all that stuff. 00:51:37.686 --> 00:51:41.622 I started exercising and at the time I had no constraints. 00:51:41.622 --> 00:51:43.532 my, I was living under my parents roof again. 00:51:43.929 --> 00:51:48.639 so I didn't have to find, I didn't have to support myself so I could spend the 00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:51.069 whole time just like diving into myself. 00:51:51.619 --> 00:51:52.909 So I started doing that. 00:51:52.919 --> 00:51:53.409 I was. 00:51:53.712 --> 00:51:59.609 I started listening to Jordan Peterson and Wayne Dyer and, some of these other 00:51:59.609 --> 00:52:06.429 like kind of people, and Wayne Dyer in particular, I got latched onto. 00:52:07.489 --> 00:52:13.019 And he really, I remember this one part where he actually takes 00:52:13.019 --> 00:52:17.689 the book of Matthew and brings out this phrase of the I am. 00:52:18.089 --> 00:52:25.519 So he takes the scripture, rips it from its context, removes it from God and 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:32.819 then packages it as this special gateway that if you just say, I am whatever 00:52:32.819 --> 00:52:34.399 you say after that's going to happen. 00:52:35.869 --> 00:52:37.049 So I started getting into this. 00:52:38.329 --> 00:52:41.369 And it started working on some level. 00:52:41.369 --> 00:52:44.979 I had all these, I started filling up my room with these statements, it was 00:52:44.979 --> 00:52:48.462 like, I am great and I am successful. 00:52:48.462 --> 00:52:50.492 And I, this, that, I am whatever. 00:52:50.492 --> 00:52:50.932 And 00:52:51.166 --> 00:52:53.176 I started to get into the new age. 00:52:53.186 --> 00:52:57.726 So I got sober and then I started to do, instead of going to God, 00:52:57.726 --> 00:52:59.762 I went to this other realm. 00:52:59.862 --> 00:53:03.316 And It's all about the universal mind. 00:53:03.496 --> 00:53:06.856 So instead of looking at God and finally collapsing into God's 00:53:06.856 --> 00:53:11.636 arms, I went to these people and I started to think I was doing, and. 00:53:11.966 --> 00:53:13.646 Things got a lot better for me. 00:53:13.926 --> 00:53:15.526 I got, I was sober. 00:53:15.536 --> 00:53:18.856 I started doing yoga daily, and really getting into the 00:53:18.856 --> 00:53:21.336 breathing practices of yoga. 00:53:21.376 --> 00:53:25.596 And I would, sit in meditation and, I really started to feel some 00:53:25.596 --> 00:53:27.586 changes and I even started to, pray. 00:53:27.586 --> 00:53:32.336 I would pray to the universe, like dear universe, thank you for this day of life. 00:53:32.466 --> 00:53:34.446 thank you, et cetera. 00:53:35.154 --> 00:53:37.794 I also, started getting crystals and all that stuff. 00:53:37.804 --> 00:53:41.524 And I'm starting to think Oh, and I ended up getting back into that program and 00:53:41.759 --> 00:53:42.339 Jesse: Naropa. 00:53:42.454 --> 00:53:46.864 Clay: at Naropa, I did all that Wayne Dyer stuff is that I am a counselor 00:53:46.864 --> 00:53:50.494 and somehow I got back into the program and I was doing it online. 00:53:50.494 --> 00:53:53.174 And I, so I really believed like this stuff was working. 00:53:54.584 --> 00:53:59.384 And then all of a sudden I got like a 5, 000 grant from the school. 00:53:59.404 --> 00:54:01.774 They just gave me 5, 000 out of nowhere. 00:54:01.784 --> 00:54:04.319 and I was like, This stuff really works. 00:54:04.379 --> 00:54:10.049 if I just align, line up, tune up my chakras to the universe and 00:54:10.449 --> 00:54:13.969 say the right things and get my head in the right place and just 00:54:14.352 --> 00:54:16.042 hold onto this positive positivity 00:54:16.289 --> 00:54:17.249 at all costs. 00:54:17.919 --> 00:54:19.859 mentality, I can do it. 00:54:19.859 --> 00:54:20.749 I can heal myself. 00:54:20.749 --> 00:54:21.739 I can do it. 00:54:21.739 --> 00:54:26.419 And I started seeing this psychic online and she would do these 00:54:26.479 --> 00:54:30.589 practices from Alistair Crowley where they fill this bubble of light 00:54:30.589 --> 00:54:33.709 and fill it with all these colors. 00:54:33.709 --> 00:54:37.829 And all these people mentioned Jesus, all these people talk about 00:54:37.919 --> 00:54:42.259 God and they are so far from it. 00:54:42.384 --> 00:54:48.411 It's scary to look back at it now, because they do what the devil does. 00:54:48.421 --> 00:54:49.381 They do what the devil does. 00:54:49.381 --> 00:54:53.421 And they took what God made for good and they rip it out and they 00:54:53.431 --> 00:54:56.041 bend it for their own purposes. 00:54:57.431 --> 00:54:58.861 And that's exactly what I was doing. 00:54:59.171 --> 00:55:01.631 But the most dangerous part is you feel good. 00:55:01.641 --> 00:55:03.861 you're doing yoga, your six packs coming in. 00:55:03.871 --> 00:55:05.851 You're, Thigh muscles are blowing up. 00:55:05.861 --> 00:55:06.711 you're looking good. 00:55:06.721 --> 00:55:07.471 You're breathing. 00:55:07.491 --> 00:55:08.581 you're clean. 00:55:08.591 --> 00:55:10.421 You're not doing any drugs. 00:55:10.471 --> 00:55:14.261 you're on the path of love and light and the universe is lined up with 00:55:14.261 --> 00:55:15.981 your chakras and you're humming. 00:55:15.981 --> 00:55:19.181 If you hum enough hums, you're going to, 00:55:21.251 --> 00:55:24.471 that's where I was thinking, really, and it was working. 00:55:26.761 --> 00:55:30.141 and then I went through school like that. 00:55:30.211 --> 00:55:31.471 And a lot of good happened. 00:55:31.471 --> 00:55:35.231 A lot of good happened, from the, from that part of my life. 00:55:36.146 --> 00:55:40.146 And I thought I was really close to God, but I didn't have Jesus. 00:55:40.726 --> 00:55:46.336 Jesus was the one to me at that point, I had opened up to Jesus as a 00:55:46.336 --> 00:55:49.816 philosopher, as a, a teacher, right? 00:55:50.116 --> 00:55:55.046 The one way that we're not supposed to look at Jesus, I was open to that. 00:55:55.056 --> 00:55:59.876 And so people get cherry pick and talk about Jesus and Oh, that's nice. 00:56:00.536 --> 00:56:01.266 that's great. 00:56:01.276 --> 00:56:04.476 if that helps you get closer to your truth, I didn't know him 00:56:06.006 --> 00:56:07.296 I was getting closer to God. 00:56:07.296 --> 00:56:11.356 And I believe that now looking back, I believe God works through our lives. 00:56:11.536 --> 00:56:14.666 Even when we're not a believer, even when we don't have faith, 00:56:15.376 --> 00:56:17.386 he's working in bringing us closer 00:56:17.941 --> 00:56:18.881 Jesse: he's drawing you. 00:56:19.086 --> 00:56:19.746 Clay: They're drawing you. 00:56:19.871 --> 00:56:20.231 Jesse: Yeah. 00:56:21.496 --> 00:56:26.506 Clay: What happened was I got involved in dating my wife, my now wife. 00:56:29.046 --> 00:56:30.076 Everything was going great. 00:56:30.416 --> 00:56:34.246 I hear it is this beautiful woman now and I'm like, oh wow, this is really working 00:56:34.356 --> 00:56:38.546 I'm gonna keep going to the universe like you keep you know, lucky number seven. 00:56:38.576 --> 00:56:38.966 Just 00:56:39.681 --> 00:56:41.911 Jesse: You manifested that beautiful woman. 00:56:42.166 --> 00:56:42.746 Clay: exactly. 00:56:42.746 --> 00:56:43.876 I manifested right? 00:56:44.256 --> 00:56:48.806 I literally felt like that because I prayed on a shooting star that 00:56:48.816 --> 00:56:51.056 she was a shooting star and it's 00:56:51.763 --> 00:56:52.723 Things go well. 00:56:52.773 --> 00:56:56.573 And then Casey's involved in all this stuff. 00:56:57.173 --> 00:57:03.370 And so we're clicking on this level, and then one day Casey just stops everything 00:57:05.003 --> 00:57:06.403 and everything. 00:57:06.403 --> 00:57:08.713 We talked about everything that we were connecting on. 00:57:08.713 --> 00:57:10.113 She just wasn't doing it anymore. 00:57:11.703 --> 00:57:18.963 And then if, a couple of days later, a week later, she says, I'm a Christian 00:57:20.793 --> 00:57:22.873 and I was like, jaw hit the floor. 00:57:22.943 --> 00:57:24.403 I, okay. 00:57:24.443 --> 00:57:24.883 What? 00:57:25.283 --> 00:57:25.713 Okay. 00:57:26.653 --> 00:57:27.673 do you want to go do this? 00:57:27.673 --> 00:57:29.403 Like tarot thing real quick? 00:57:29.403 --> 00:57:30.733 And she's I don't do that anymore. 00:57:31.173 --> 00:57:34.840 So all of a sudden, and I really love Casey. 00:57:35.033 --> 00:57:38.723 And it's the best thing that's happened to me in my life up until that point. 00:57:40.093 --> 00:57:44.363 And automatically, almost automatically, I was like, I can't do that. 00:57:44.733 --> 00:57:46.490 I don't believe in Jesus. 00:57:46.500 --> 00:57:49.127 She's, I don't believe that he, Are you serious? 00:57:49.127 --> 00:57:54.310 Like I believe some crazy stuff about rocks and crystals and spirit guides 00:57:54.310 --> 00:57:58.680 and all this and reincarnations, but to actually believe in Jesus, that was the 00:57:58.680 --> 00:58:01.390 most thing I could not believe, right? 00:58:01.780 --> 00:58:05.270 To believe in the Bible and Jesus was like, no, I just can't go there. 00:58:05.770 --> 00:58:07.010 So we started clashing 00:58:09.120 --> 00:58:10.190 at the same time. 00:58:10.240 --> 00:58:13.420 I got fired from my internship that I was doing because I was 00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:14.770 doing school long distance. 00:58:15.660 --> 00:58:20.590 And I had gotten an internship for the last part of my school at this 00:58:20.600 --> 00:58:23.130 place in local mental health place. 00:58:23.600 --> 00:58:25.280 And I had work, was working there. 00:58:26.440 --> 00:58:32.385 And right about that time, they, I was doing They had told me not 00:58:32.385 --> 00:58:34.195 to do this stuff with what is it? 00:58:34.285 --> 00:58:36.585 What is it called when people look at the stars? 00:58:36.695 --> 00:58:37.675 Jesse: Astrology? 00:58:37.795 --> 00:58:41.015 Clay: yeah, yeah, They told me don't do that at this job. 00:58:41.365 --> 00:58:42.225 And I didn't listen. 00:58:42.535 --> 00:58:43.965 I was doing whatever I want to do. 00:58:44.315 --> 00:58:50.125 And I was doing this astrology thing and someone complained and all of a sudden I 00:58:50.125 --> 00:58:53.275 got fired on the spot from my internship. 00:58:53.965 --> 00:58:55.690 At the same time, Casey, I got fired. 00:58:56.050 --> 00:58:57.790 Was like, I don't do any of that stuff anymore. 00:58:57.790 --> 00:59:02.170 All that stuff that we were doing with the universe and the manifestations 00:59:02.170 --> 00:59:04.090 and all that, I don't do that anymore. 00:59:04.090 --> 00:59:05.050 I don't do any crystals. 00:59:05.060 --> 00:59:06.380 All that has gone out of my life. 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:09.150 I love you, but I'm not doing any of that anymore. 00:59:09.740 --> 00:59:12.790 and that was like a huge hit to me. 00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:16.577 And then I got fired for doing astrology stuff on the spot. 00:59:16.957 --> 00:59:18.447 They were like, clean out your office. 00:59:18.772 --> 00:59:19.362 You're done. 00:59:19.452 --> 00:59:20.772 And I was like, what about my school? 00:59:22.092 --> 00:59:23.042 And they were like, you're done. 00:59:23.842 --> 00:59:28.648 So all of a sudden my school, they were, I told my, I had to tell 00:59:28.648 --> 00:59:31.588 my school what happened and they were like, you can't graduate. 00:59:31.908 --> 00:59:35.138 I was like months from finally graduating this long. 00:59:35.198 --> 00:59:38.768 like, sorry, you gotta start all over again. 00:59:38.798 --> 00:59:42.628 And by then I was a hundred something thousand dollars in debt from going to 00:59:42.628 --> 00:59:46.338 school to this school, which all seemed like it was going to be for nothing. 00:59:47.028 --> 00:59:47.558 And then. 00:59:47.694 --> 00:59:51.493 So all of a sudden, in a week, I lost everything 00:59:54.073 --> 00:59:57.433 and the manifestations train came screeching to a halt and my 00:59:57.433 --> 01:00:02.443 little alignment with the universe had been knocked off somehow. 01:00:04.443 --> 01:00:05.423 And I was lost. 01:00:05.423 --> 01:00:06.143 I was dark. 01:00:06.173 --> 01:00:11.853 I started that emptiness came up, everything came up again, and it came 01:00:11.853 --> 01:00:13.523 time for me to go out and graduate. 01:00:14.853 --> 01:00:19.903 And there was a possibility that I maybe would be able to graduate 01:00:19.903 --> 01:00:23.763 because someone at this internship was felt bad for me and they. 01:00:24.523 --> 01:00:29.623 Because I had done enough hours and they were like, basically they said that they 01:00:29.623 --> 01:00:33.053 weren't going to sign the papers, but this one lady said, look, I'll sign it. 01:00:33.053 --> 01:00:35.643 I know you did the hours, so I'll sign it that you did it. 01:00:35.653 --> 01:00:40.590 So there was a hail Mary chance, like this, that these papers would be accepted 01:00:40.790 --> 01:00:42.620 and I would get, I would graduate. 01:00:43.090 --> 01:00:47.970 So I got on a plane to Colorado to graduate and get my master's. 01:00:48.740 --> 01:00:53.600 And right before I left, Casey was like, I don't think we can do this. 01:00:53.680 --> 01:00:54.570 Like we can't be together. 01:00:55.345 --> 01:00:56.305 This isn't going to work. 01:00:56.505 --> 01:01:02.295 We don't, I just felt like it's not going to work with her because I 01:01:02.295 --> 01:01:05.555 don't believe in Jesus and the Bible. 01:01:06.525 --> 01:01:08.525 So I felt like I lost her. 01:01:08.625 --> 01:01:11.595 And then I felt like I was lost my school. 01:01:11.645 --> 01:01:12.765 and I left for Colorado 01:01:15.395 --> 01:01:17.655 the day before I was supposed to graduate. 01:01:19.090 --> 01:01:24.680 Out of just depression and sadness, I wandered up into the mountains 01:01:26.770 --> 01:01:32.030 and all the way there, Casey had sent me a playlist of worship music. 01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:34.250 She was like, listen, this one meat song. 01:01:35.210 --> 01:01:36.260 And I was like, okay. 01:01:36.870 --> 01:01:38.670 I was like, no, I don't want to listen to this. 01:01:38.670 --> 01:01:40.580 But then I finally just let it into my heart. 01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:42.030 I was like, okay. 01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:45.290 maybe we won't be together, maybe not, but I'll listen to this music and it 01:01:45.300 --> 01:01:49.380 was a playlist of worship music, put the worship music on, put it in my 01:01:49.500 --> 01:01:54.870 earbuds, start walking up the mountain aimlessly, just pondering how my life 01:01:54.870 --> 01:02:02.960 had just gone from great to not to like black hole again, somewhat suicidal 01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:08.200 even thinking, and the playlist, the music just starts coming in my ears. 01:02:08.970 --> 01:02:13.790 and I'm just like feeling moved, like I want to cry, but I'm 01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.330 not, and I just keep walking. 01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:20.180 I'm not really listening to the music, but I'm looking around at nature. 01:02:20.180 --> 01:02:21.350 It's a beautiful day. 01:02:21.590 --> 01:02:27.420 And I somewhere, somehow I end up at this pond still completely 01:02:27.420 --> 01:02:31.570 still no one around on the very far side of the pond is a bench. 01:02:32.505 --> 01:02:35.325 One bench I didn't know where is in the middle of the mountains. 01:02:35.325 --> 01:02:38.805 There's nobody around There's a pond completely still and on the other side 01:02:38.805 --> 01:02:42.175 of the pond is a bench No one's sitting there and I said I gotta go sit there 01:02:44.215 --> 01:02:47.745 so I walk all the way around and then sit there 01:02:48.775 --> 01:02:54.733 and I just Ask God I say God if you're there If you're 01:02:54.733 --> 01:02:57.973 real, I don't believe in you, 01:03:00.283 --> 01:03:02.473 but can you help me believe? 01:03:03.193 --> 01:03:07.273 I don't know what to do, but I don't want to, I don't think I want to 01:03:07.283 --> 01:03:13.277 be here anymore on this earth And on the water, I just saw Jesus. 01:03:13.575 --> 01:03:16.352 Out in the middle of the water, but he wasn't coming. 01:03:16.635 --> 01:03:20.268 He was, he was there and I, my heart just felt electric and I start 01:03:20.358 --> 01:03:22.048 like what's going on right now? 01:03:22.305 --> 01:03:26.005 And I just remember like Jesus saying, I'm here. 01:03:26.455 --> 01:03:31.472 I've been waiting for you your whole life, but you have to want me. 01:03:32.695 --> 01:03:34.255 you have to let me in your heart. 01:03:34.835 --> 01:03:36.935 and I look down and I'm just crying. 01:03:37.015 --> 01:03:38.535 Like I've never cried before. 01:03:38.535 --> 01:03:40.715 I'm just sobbing and sobbing. 01:03:41.088 --> 01:03:42.588 And it's all coming out of me. 01:03:42.588 --> 01:03:43.518 And I was like, 01:03:44.272 --> 01:03:45.662 I, I believe in you. 01:03:46.015 --> 01:03:47.035 I will open my heart. 01:03:47.808 --> 01:03:52.678 And at that moment, I just felt he just came closer and went 01:03:52.688 --> 01:03:55.423 from, That into like into my heart 01:03:57.145 --> 01:04:01.526 and I looked around and it was nighttime and I was like, I went up 01:04:01.526 --> 01:04:04.294 there at eight in the morning and I don't even know what happened. 01:04:04.354 --> 01:04:05.674 I don't know what happened. 01:04:05.674 --> 01:04:07.884 I don't know how long that happened for. 01:04:08.279 --> 01:04:12.399 And all I remember is this feeling of like my heart just got like 01:04:12.709 --> 01:04:19.340 from this like brittle, hard clump of stone to just crack like that. 01:04:19.933 --> 01:04:23.885 And he came in it was like that, similar to that first feeling I told you about, 01:04:26.705 --> 01:04:30.375 it was like that feeling, and I just felt like he'd been, he's been waiting 01:04:30.375 --> 01:04:34.465 for me to do that my whole life, all this stuff, all this pretending, all 01:04:34.475 --> 01:04:39.175 these drugs, all this trouble, all these, running and hiding and fighting. 01:04:40.765 --> 01:04:42.845 Feeling like not enough and so 01:04:45.245 --> 01:04:47.305 so I accepted Jesus in my heart that day. 01:04:47.365 --> 01:04:55.055 I literally did and I felt it Tangibly and my life has never been the same since 01:04:55.055 --> 01:05:02.485 then and he's been there since then he's there right now and His Holy Spirit lives 01:05:02.485 --> 01:05:08.876 inside of me and I believe On him and that he died for me and he was resurrected 01:05:09.560 --> 01:05:11.756 for me And that's all that matters now. 01:05:11.756 --> 01:05:16.476 And that's what's that's what I stand on now And so now I rest in 01:05:16.476 --> 01:05:18.436 christ and I have my struggles. 01:05:18.486 --> 01:05:19.376 Things like that 01:05:20.720 --> 01:05:24.710 right there and there is the fullness Of god and I wanted to 01:05:24.710 --> 01:05:28.180 share a scripture to talk about what my life's been like since then 01:05:29.495 --> 01:05:29.885 Jesse: sure. 01:05:31.715 --> 01:05:36.905 Clay: This is second Corinthians, therefore having second Corinthians, 01:05:36.955 --> 01:05:41.335 four, therefore having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not 01:05:41.335 --> 01:05:44.865 lose heart, but we have renounced disgraceful underhanded ways. 01:05:45.185 --> 01:05:51.765 We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God's word, but by open statement of 01:05:51.765 --> 01:05:55.695 the truth, we would commend ourselves to everyone's conscience in the sight of God. 01:05:56.015 --> 01:06:00.405 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those 01:06:00.405 --> 01:06:02.095 who are perishing in their case. 01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:07.500 The God of this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers to keep them from 01:06:07.500 --> 01:06:13.920 seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 01:06:14.050 --> 01:06:18.560 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, ourselves 01:06:19.010 --> 01:06:20.800 as your servants for Jesus sake. 01:06:21.360 --> 01:06:27.100 For God who said, let light shine out of darkness, has shown in our hearts to 01:06:27.100 --> 01:06:30.940 give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God to the face of Jesus Christ. 01:06:31.900 --> 01:06:33.460 That's exactly what happened to me. 01:06:33.865 --> 01:06:36.985 And it changed everything about everything, Jesse. 01:06:37.225 --> 01:06:42.075 And I know that we don't need these things, but just so I can tell for the 01:06:42.075 --> 01:06:47.105 listeners, that day, that night, by the time it was night, I got back, there 01:06:47.105 --> 01:06:53.255 was an email from my teacher, and he said, I decided to let you graduate. 01:06:55.435 --> 01:06:58.175 Because I feel that you deserve to graduate. 01:06:59.665 --> 01:07:00.635 So you're going to graduate. 01:07:00.635 --> 01:07:02.405 So I didn't think I was going to even graduate. 01:07:02.435 --> 01:07:05.355 I thought I was, everything was lost, but I felt like I got 01:07:05.365 --> 01:07:06.975 everything because I got Jesus. 01:07:06.985 --> 01:07:09.435 So I didn't even care at that point. 01:07:10.235 --> 01:07:16.125 At that point, that was the most the most floored I've ever been in my 01:07:16.125 --> 01:07:20.855 whole life to have finally have Jesus Christ and believe him in my heart. 01:07:20.875 --> 01:07:22.275 I felt like I had gained the world. 01:07:22.275 --> 01:07:22.995 I really did. 01:07:23.175 --> 01:07:24.985 So I didn't point, I didn't even care. 01:07:24.995 --> 01:07:25.645 I was like. 01:07:27.465 --> 01:07:31.785 I didn't care about school, but I got home, I got back and there was that 01:07:31.785 --> 01:07:36.895 email all of a sudden, randomly, the teacher just said, I feel like you should 01:07:36.895 --> 01:07:41.735 graduate, so I'm going to sign your paperwork, get ready to graduate tomorrow. 01:07:43.475 --> 01:07:46.515 And in that moment, I knew that I would marry Casey. 01:07:48.655 --> 01:07:55.255 So I knew, I just knew, I was like, I'm going home, I'm getting a ring and we're 01:07:55.255 --> 01:07:57.085 going to get married like that day. 01:07:58.215 --> 01:08:00.245 Like I am going to go marry that woman. 01:08:00.775 --> 01:08:01.705 I have Jesus. 01:08:02.265 --> 01:08:03.938 Now, and that's what I did. 01:08:04.431 --> 01:08:11.121 I saw, I walked across the stage and I went home and I married my wife and 01:08:11.121 --> 01:08:13.521 my life has never been the same since. 01:08:14.397 --> 01:08:15.607 Jesse: Let me ask you a question. 01:08:16.757 --> 01:08:21.477 I've heard you say, several times that all your life you have, you were trying to 01:08:21.517 --> 01:08:27.677 fill this emptiness, with various things, All your activities and drugs and moving 01:08:27.677 --> 01:08:30.307 around and philosophy and all that stuff. 01:08:32.047 --> 01:08:38.407 And that hunger, that emptiness remained until, until he came in. 01:08:38.537 --> 01:08:40.177 Am I getting it? 01:08:40.237 --> 01:08:40.657 Yeah. 01:08:41.012 --> 01:08:41.702 Clay: It did. 01:08:41.712 --> 01:08:42.292 It did. 01:08:42.312 --> 01:08:43.072 And it does. 01:08:43.122 --> 01:08:51.512 And it is the, it's the best thing I've ever, Jesus is a real and living and alive 01:08:51.632 --> 01:08:58.412 and it's the gospel and the scripture I've encountered nothing like it. 01:09:00.302 --> 01:09:01.542 It's real. 01:09:01.582 --> 01:09:02.642 It's practical. 01:09:02.662 --> 01:09:03.672 It's effective. 01:09:05.337 --> 01:09:07.127 And it never lets me down. 01:09:08.377 --> 01:09:09.527 It hasn't let me down. 01:09:09.627 --> 01:09:11.097 I tried so many things. 01:09:11.167 --> 01:09:17.717 I tried, I tried so many things and there is nothing like this. 01:09:18.197 --> 01:09:23.687 And I feel that I came close to God, but I could never find him without Jesus. 01:09:24.037 --> 01:09:29.007 and I never really could get God until I got Jesus. 01:09:29.837 --> 01:09:32.207 And in order to do that, I had to let him in my heart. 01:09:32.862 --> 01:09:36.262 It's I don't know if you've ever rescued an animal or something, 01:09:36.272 --> 01:09:41.892 like a wet cat or something, and they just Fight and scratch and and 01:09:41.892 --> 01:09:43.342 you're like, I'm trying to help you. 01:09:44.402 --> 01:09:48.052 And I think that's what God did for me most of my life. 01:09:48.212 --> 01:09:52.472 And most of my life I was scratching and then finally I just 01:09:52.472 --> 01:09:54.092 didn't have any more fight left. 01:09:56.867 --> 01:09:58.097 Jesse: That's a great image. 01:09:58.897 --> 01:10:04.527 I want to hear so much more, but that's why we decided to do a third podcast 01:10:04.537 --> 01:10:10.057 with you and Casey together, and I want to hear what happened after y'all 01:10:10.057 --> 01:10:11.747 got back together, y'all got married. 01:10:11.837 --> 01:10:12.687 I want to hear that. 01:10:13.112 --> 01:10:13.452 Clay: Yeah. 01:10:13.462 --> 01:10:16.852 We can't wait to tell, and I'm sure that listeners will be sick 01:10:16.852 --> 01:10:18.292 of us by then, but that's okay. 01:10:19.032 --> 01:10:19.882 it's a true story. 01:10:22.607 --> 01:10:26.237 Jesse: Let me just ask you, If there's one little bit of advice that you 01:10:26.237 --> 01:10:30.807 could give to somebody out there, who's like you, who is searching in all 01:10:30.807 --> 01:10:33.297 the wrong places, what would you say? 01:10:34.317 --> 01:10:35.247 Clay: Don't kill yourself. 01:10:36.684 --> 01:10:37.224 Don't do it. 01:10:38.264 --> 01:10:39.794 just turn just a fraction. 01:10:40.234 --> 01:10:45.054 If you just open your heart just a tiny bit, I know you're hurting, 01:10:46.294 --> 01:10:47.644 and I know you don't see any hope. 01:10:49.954 --> 01:10:54.324 If you just turn a little bit and forget yourself for just a second. 01:10:55.964 --> 01:11:00.144 and suspend your disbelief, you'll be amazed. 01:11:00.924 --> 01:11:02.414 Jesse: It's all about belief, isn't it? 01:11:03.241 --> 01:11:06.068 I liked the way that you asked Jesus. 01:11:06.265 --> 01:11:08.206 To give you belief. 01:11:08.416 --> 01:11:09.606 To help you believe. 01:11:10.136 --> 01:11:10.866 I like that. 01:11:11.292 --> 01:11:11.612 Clay: huh. 01:11:11.642 --> 01:11:12.312 I still do. 01:11:12.912 --> 01:11:13.612 I still do that. 01:11:13.642 --> 01:11:14.742 I still say that prayer. 01:11:15.202 --> 01:11:21.322 Because, if we could get into this more, I think that what happened that 01:11:21.322 --> 01:11:23.968 day was I finally stopped fighting God. 01:11:24.282 --> 01:11:27.958 And instead of fighting God, now I just fight God. 01:11:28.488 --> 01:11:33.796 The enemy, but my fight got a lot more concise, so it got the 01:11:33.836 --> 01:11:35.506 basically the real fight started, 01:11:35.775 --> 01:11:40.595 and so that's what I look at that as I finally didn't need done didn't need 01:11:40.605 --> 01:11:45.575 to fight anymore with God or question him then that just leaves the devil so 01:11:45.775 --> 01:11:48.815 so things get the Christian walk is. 01:11:49.065 --> 01:11:56.480 difficult and without fellowship and the unity of the church and being in scripture 01:11:56.480 --> 01:12:05.865 constantly where I'm at in my Christian walk it makes Everything else, everything, 01:12:05.885 --> 01:12:11.545 all the other stuff I've went through, it makes it look like a sandbox child's play. 01:12:13.345 --> 01:12:16.375 but I'm grateful today, Jesse, that I don't have to fight. 01:12:17.545 --> 01:12:19.175 I don't need to fight with God anymore. 01:12:19.395 --> 01:12:20.865 I can just obey him. 01:12:22.065 --> 01:12:28.485 I have a father who loves me an earthly one and a heavenly one. 01:12:28.885 --> 01:12:31.058 And his commands are right. 01:12:31.348 --> 01:12:35.221 And what I've found is by following them, I get the best. 01:12:35.641 --> 01:12:41.861 That I could possibly get by just believing in the gospel 01:12:43.894 --> 01:12:47.854 and doing what he commands me to do. 01:12:49.884 --> 01:12:55.364 It frees me up to be, to glorify him because in the end, it's not about 01:12:55.374 --> 01:13:00.494 God giving, fulfilling my desires. 01:13:01.469 --> 01:13:06.609 or my felt needs or giving me a wife or any, it's not about any of that. 01:13:06.609 --> 01:13:08.449 It's just that I can now glorify him. 01:13:10.449 --> 01:13:13.219 And if you, if we can I wrap up with a prayer? 01:13:13.759 --> 01:13:17.909 Jesse: That's what I was just getting ready to ask you to do, so let's do that. 01:13:18.569 --> 01:13:21.579 Clay: this is a prayer that it comes from. 01:13:21.644 --> 01:13:28.304 Ephesians 3 and it's Paul's a prayer that Paul prays in Ephesians 3 and 01:13:28.304 --> 01:13:31.654 I want to pray this over you and me and everybody listening right 01:13:31.654 --> 01:13:33.774 now and everybody in the world. 01:13:35.354 --> 01:13:42.014 And for this reason, I bow my knees before the father from whom every family 01:13:42.014 --> 01:13:46.954 in heaven and on earth is named that according to the riches of his glory, 01:13:46.954 --> 01:13:52.334 he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his spirit in your inner 01:13:52.334 --> 01:14:01.559 being so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith that you being rooted 01:14:01.689 --> 01:14:06.899 and grounded in love may have strength to comprehend with all the saints. 01:14:07.419 --> 01:14:14.249 What is the breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ 01:14:14.259 --> 01:14:20.459 that surpasses knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 01:14:23.139 --> 01:14:24.969 In Jesus name, Amen. 01:14:26.041 --> 01:14:26.731 Jesse: Amen. 01:14:27.624 --> 01:14:33.474 So stay tuned for the third part of this story when I get Clay and Casey together. 01:14:34.224 --> 01:14:35.514 So thank you, Clay. 01:14:39.454 --> 01:14:41.664 We hope you've been blessed by today's story. 01:14:42.134 --> 01:14:45.854 In case you haven't noticed, there are no advertisements on this podcast, 01:14:46.214 --> 01:14:47.744 and we hope to keep it that way. 01:14:48.414 --> 01:14:52.544 So if you've heard something that you think could help someone you know, please 01:14:52.544 --> 01:14:54.684 share it using the link in the show notes. 01:14:55.514 --> 01:14:59.864 Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a positive review on your podcast platform, 01:15:00.314 --> 01:15:01.964 you could help more people find it. 01:15:02.564 --> 01:15:06.599 You will probably never know how that small effort can make a big 01:15:06.609 --> 01:15:08.209 difference in someone's life. 01:15:08.489 --> 01:15:10.179 But our heavenly father knows. 01:15:10.679 --> 01:15:15.479 Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus follower with a story to tell, please send 01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:17.409 them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast. 01:15:18.379 --> 01:15:20.529 It may encourage them to tell their story. 01:15:20.919 --> 01:15:22.539 That person may even be you. 01:15:23.009 --> 01:15:26.139 Our only criteria is that Jesus be glorified. 01:15:26.909 --> 01:15:30.419 Most Christians don't share their faith because they mistakenly think 01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:34.799 their story is not interesting enough or that it's self centered to talk 01:15:34.809 --> 01:15:39.849 about themselves or that they are not competent to explain the gospel correctly. 01:15:40.289 --> 01:15:41.549 But none of that is relevant. 01:15:41.939 --> 01:15:45.359 If Jesus has changed your life, you have a story to tell. 01:15:46.319 --> 01:15:48.739 All of our stories are completely unique. 01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:50.709 No one has a story like yours. 01:15:51.049 --> 01:15:54.039 And you may be the only one who can reach someone else 01:15:54.069 --> 01:15:55.549 through telling your experience. 01:15:56.149 --> 01:15:57.509 So don't be intimidated. 01:15:57.859 --> 01:16:03.289 A story is just that, a true account of your own experience, and no one 01:16:03.289 --> 01:16:05.129 can disagree with your experience. 01:16:06.189 --> 01:16:10.359 When we tell what Jesus has done in our lives, we are being obedient to his 01:16:10.359 --> 01:16:14.579 command to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 01:16:14.989 --> 01:16:18.829 It's not about theology, and it's not about how interesting or special you are. 01:16:19.149 --> 01:16:20.829 It's all about Jesus. 01:16:21.544 --> 01:16:26.314 So when you're ready to tell how Jesus has impacted your life, you can let Jesse 01:16:26.314 --> 01:16:29.434 know at his ministry website, jesseduke. 01:16:29.454 --> 01:16:29.734 net. 01:16:30.344 --> 01:16:33.514 There you can download guidelines that will make it easy to 01:16:33.514 --> 01:16:35.074 prepare to tell your story. 01:16:35.614 --> 01:16:38.104 Thank you for listening today and Shalom.