Keith, it's great to have you on Beyond Titles today.
Thank you so much for taking the time to join me.
And I'm really looking forward to diving into our conversation because you have, first of all, a very big why behind your business and why you started HandyPro, which I'm excited
to dive into.
And you also have, you know, with expansion.
You have remarkable leadership.
ethos about you.
So I'm thrilled for our listeners to hear more about the way in which you lead and how you've built your business.
Before we get into some of those details, I'd love if you could just give a quick little intro into who you are, what you're all about, and some of the fun things you're working
on right
Thank you, Kendra.
I appreciate it and it's a pleasure to be here.
I'm excited to spend a little bit of time with you.
A little bit about me.
Well, we started the company, it's called Handy Pro.
Back then it was called Home Advantage.
We weren't trademarked then, but we started it about 29 years ago.
I started when I was two.
And we started because my wife's grandmother, is, she was 82 years old.
She lived in Allen Park, Michigan here, and she was having a kitchen remodeling project completed.
And the contractor in the middle of the job came up to her and said, you know, hey, I need $2,000 more because I underbid the cabinets.
And she's a trusting soul, pulled out her checkbook, handed it over, and lo and behold, he never came back.
So yeah, my wife and I were looking to start a business and we said, boy, I wonder if there's a business that we could start that can protect seniors from dishonest
contractors.
Because everybody's got their story.
Kendra, you mentioned that you've heard so many yourself.
So we started as a home improvement referral service and we used to do certifications on electricians and plumbers and handymen and window and painters.
And we had so many calls for handymen, Kendra, that my wife being the beautiful brains that she is said, let's hire somebody.
So we did, we hired somebody because we couldn't find enough handymen to meet the demand.
That was back in 1996 and then we hired two, then three, then four, then
and by 2000 we had 10 and we were getting calls around the country asking how we're doing what we're doing and so now fast forward we have eight offices around the country here in
the US not to Toronto yet but we're coming.
hey, come on over.
And so, you know, it's just been an honor, you know, when people ask you in their home that, you know, they pay you to do it and you're in their most personal space, it's a true
honor.
It really is.
And we're having a blast doing it.
So thanks again for having me on the show.
of course.
that's, that's one of the things that I really loved when we first spoke, Keith, was that you had such a, such an impactful and personal why behind starting your business.
Yes, you said you and your wife were looking to start a business anyways.
However, it seems as unfortunate as the situation is almost kismet that that happened, which was a catalyst for Handy Pro to, to come to life really.
Right.
And so.
I mean, off the top of your head, how many seniors do you think you have saved from dishonest contractors?
billions.
No.
Well, we do any, you know, around three to 5,000, we help three to 5,000 people a year.
on average, sometimes a little bit more depending on the project.
Cause you know, we'll put a grab bar or we'll do an addition.
So it's, you know, and it's not all seniors now it's, it's people who are busy to family income and.
We're helping people, business owners now, every home needs a trusted handyman, right?
Every business needs one.
And so, yeah, yeah, but the foundation of it is to protect seniors.
We love doing work, you know, to help somebody paint their house and all that, when you do it at somebody, and it's not only seniors, it's people with disabilities, right?
So we could put a wheelchair ramp in, a ceiling lift or stair lift, but it's just a little bit more special when you give somebody the freedom in their own home.
Yeah.
you look on our website in West Virginia, we have a, a franchise owner and he tells a story of how he's working for a veteran.
And he came back the next day after putting the wheelchair ramp in and the, knocked on the door and the wife came and he said, you just want to make sure you're okay with the job.
And, you know, we'd like to collect on it.
And he said, I haven't seen my husband the whole day.
He's out coming in and out of the house, saying hi to the neighbors.
And he hasn't been able to.
do that for a year.
yeah, kind of fun.
And then tonight.
fulfilling fulfilling 100 % and now you're sharing you're giving other other people so your franchise owners the opportunity to also get that feel fulfilled and get that that
opportunity to help others which is really special really really special and fun and fun and so it's interesting because you mentioned you have eight locations correct across
the United States.
So eight locations with a number of different employees and contractors coming in and out.
So obviously with you being the nucleus, you've set values, you've set criteria, and clearly you have very high standards and expectations for the people that are working for
you and that are under your brand.
So
How do you maintain consistency and ensure quality across all of these locations, knowing they're spread out?
And I guess that also kind of segues into how do you find the right franchise owners to know that they are aligned with your business?
What a great question, right?
And one that every business owner, whether you have one employee or a hundred employees, has to answer that question.
mine is, how do I know?
I've made enough mistakes to find out what not to do.
Experience is the best teacher, hindsight's 20-20.
But it's critical.
Right, for a business to know their purpose, to know what their vision and values and mission is.
And it's critical to over communicate that with your team because what we have really found is that most people...
They want to be part of something bigger than themselves, right?
And we're not just a home improvement contractor.
We're people that go in and make a difference in the lives of other people.
And when we first started the company and we first started franchising, and a lot of franchisers make the mistake, just bring it in.
People in, okay, cool, you want to be part of our family?
Well, that's a mistake.
because not everybody shares the values of what it means to take care of other people.
so when we found out that we didn't, we under-communicated the vision and the values and our core values, there was a lot of chaos, right?
What does taking care of your employees mean to you?
What does taking care of your clients mean to you?
Those are the questions we didn't ask in the beginning.
And now we over-ask because if the values don't align, you're going to have this.
And you're going to have unhappy employees.
You're going to have unhappy clients.
And so it's critical.
It's critical that you know what your mission is and you know what your vision and what you stand for as a company.
And know, if you want to change lives, it's here at HandyPro.
That's what we stand for.
Did I answer your question?
I think that more than answered my question.
That exceeded the expectation of my question.
And, you know, especially in a franchise environment, I think you hit the nail on the head there.
No, no pun intended.
When people, thank you.
Thanks.
Just came to me.
You know, when people do just say, okay, yeah, you want to be part of our brand?
Come on in, because it means that the business is growing.
And that's obviously what some of the KPIs are is to expand, is to grow, to bring on more franchisees.
But it sounds like you've been very intentional with who you have coming in and...
And you mentioned obviously, you know, I'm guessing that at the beginning there were some misaligned or misalignments with, you know, with potential employees or past employees.
And so you've made some mistakes.
figured it out now, you know, to over communicate the, the vision mission and values.
Are there any other learnings?
We'll call them learnings or lessons that you had early on that have shaped how you, how you operate as a business today.
How much time do we have?
no, it's it.
The biggest lesson is basically what we said, bring into your company who people who thrive on your story and that can connect with it, whether it's an employee, a
subcontractor, a vendor, a franchisee, somebody on your leadership team and
boy, the world is so much better when they are both aligned, regardless, even vendors.
There was a time when we partnered with another company who ended up going bankrupt and it hurt Handy Pro, but because we had a really good, solid relationship with our vendors and
so forth, we went to them and said, hey, listen,
You know, I can't pay you today.
Can you wait 30 days?
Can you wait 60 days?
You have my word, we're gonna do it.
And they said, no problem.
We believe you.
know, our businesses go up and down and everybody got paid and we had even stronger relationships that way.
So, you know, it just makes life easier when you get people who you're aligned in every aspect of your business.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And I love that the building of the relationships, I'm sure it's not easy to go out and find reputable vendors over and over again.
So why put yourself through the stress and the hardship of having to start new relationships consistently, right?
The 80-20 rule at the end of the day.
Yeah.
Yes.
you take care of anybody who's part of your company and they take care of you
Yeah.
And the other thing that I really want to highlight that you mentioned was that you, you know, you shared some of those, those struggles or perhaps where you were at in the moment
upfront.
So there's a lot of transparency in those relationships and interactions.
And, know, would you agree that that's one of the things that's helped you create the culture that you have at Handy Pro is the, just the, the sheer transparency of here's what
we're working with.
Here's where we want to go.
Here's what we're doing and here's what we're delivering.
And
everything's kind of on the table.
For me, yes.
You know, I tried to be that, you know, that founder, CEO that knows everything and hasn't made mistakes, but that didn't work.
People who think they're perfect bother us who really are, right?
No, I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
It is.
I mean, you know, when you're vulnerable as a leader, people can relate to you.
You know, the leadership style of do what I say, you know, it just doesn't fly anymore.
It's not the culture that we're in.
It's not the culture that we want to build here at HandyPro.
We're a team.
We work really hard, but we have a lot of fun doing it.
know, so transparency in my opinion, whether, you know, any employee can come in here and they want to talk about the financials, I'll sit down with you.
You know, let's talk about it.
You know, how do we market?
You know, we're very, very transparent.
I'm thinking it's a key, you know, part of our key to success.
It's all about trust, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And it eliminates some of those, well, what are you actually doing over there?
And how do we make money?
And I think, yeah, exactly, exactly.
And it also helps to tie the thread between what your employees do and the direct impact of the work that they have, how the work that they do impacts the business overall, if
they understand, you know,
you market?
What does this look like?
What does our monthly quota look like?
Whatever, however you measure that.
But for them to actually see the impact of their work, I think, is also very motivating for individuals.
I love it, Kendra.
You hit the nail on the head.
How does what they do every single day when they get up to work and they have the hammers, how does that fit within the whole grand scheme of things?
Most people want to know.
Some people want to just come in, do a paycheck, get paid well, okay.
But some people want to know what kind of difference they're making in the big picture.
So thanks for bringing that up, that's good.
of course.
It's really important and I think it's often overlooked.
You know, it's just the...
that the small actions that we have every single day that might seem mundane or might seem like I wake up and it's Groundhog Day and I go to work and I do this and I do that.
But in the long run, it's those little ripple effects that create and cause big impact and big impact, whether that's in one person's life, whether that's in the lives of, you know,
what did you say, four or 5,000 people that you help in a year?
Yeah.
So.
Pretty awesome.
had a conversation with one of our craftsmen once and he said, well, you know, you're the CEO, you're important.
And, you know, I'm just a craftsman guy.
And I says, okay, well, let me ask you a question.
What happens when you don't show up at work?
Chaos happens, you know?
And I said, got to call clients.
We got to call their people.
When I don't show up at work.
Nobody knows.
where's Keith?
I said, you make more of a difference than I do.
wow, I'm sure he walked away just beaming after that.
How could you not, right?
Yeah, yes, yes.
And so with that, mean, you, as you said, you started the business.
a of decades ago, a few decades ago now, and from where you started at in your role and involvement in the business to where you are now, how has your involvement, your
leadership style, and kind of the areas that you focus on, how have those changed over time?
Well, when we first started, was just Deb and I and one craftsman.
And so we were Jack of all trades doing all the business stuff.
I'm not much of a handyman.
My wife calls me Mr.
Make it worse.
So I stayed out of the field.
Even though I'm a licensed builder, I had to get it for the business and stuff.
So yeah, we were doing everything, right?
I was answering the phone, I was scheduling, I was...
hiring and so forth and growing it that way.
And now, you know, my day to day is I get to work with a lot with directly with the location owners, franchise owners and with the leadership team.
I really miss working day to day working with the craftsmen.
I just sat in with one of our craftsmen meetings last Friday.
I was like, it's good to see you guys.
I miss you.
You know, that was so much fun.
But the change, gosh, the change is what we talked about earlier.
When I was younger, I thought a leader had to know everything.
I really did.
And I had to have all the answers.
And it's, I can't say the opposite is true, but it's okay to say, I don't know, what do you think?
Yeah.
Where do you think the company should go?
You're on the front lines.
What are you hearing from the clients?
And that was probably my biggest leadership change from saying, okay, I have all the answers.
I'm leading the ship.
I got it to, hey, what do you guys think?
What are you guys hearing?
Where should we go?
Whether it's with the marketing or the operations or the finance, all together.
Very smart, very smart, because who knows best than the people who are interacting with your client every single day.
Yeah.
You got it.
They're hearing what the customer is saying, not us.
Yeah, exactly.
So you've transitioned, you delegate more now.
And I, I really appreciate though, that you still sit in, you under, you know, you sit in on different areas of the business.
So you understand and you get a pulse on what's happening in all of the different areas.
It's not just in one, you know, you're not just kind of siloed to the office and that's it.
And that's where you stay.
I think that's the making of a great CEO, a great leader is when you can, you can sit in there's
There's also the open door policy where people can come and talk to you.
They can feel, they feel comfortable, right?
They feel like they have a seat at the table.
And that's as much as we've gotten away from the do as I say, or we're trying to get away from that style of leadership, it still exists.
It still exists.
So.
still got to do that once in a while, but not too often.
Things got to get done.
learning a new skill and that sort of thing, then it's good to do as I say, because there's a step-by-step process.
And if you don't, you might hurt yourself or we might, you know, delete all of our financial data.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So when you think about, yes, people are connected to the overall vision of Handy Pro.
And that's why they would come to you specifically through the...
the franchisee lens.
I'm really curious about that side of your business because I think what you offer is very unique in terms of a business model and you've now scaled it across the country.
So people come to you, franchisees, you set them up and then how do you maintain your communication with them?
How do you train them?
What does that look like internally without giving away too many of your secrets?
But how does that function to keep them their
They're essentially an independent operating entity, but they're still part of the team.
So how do you find that balance?
Mmm, real good question.
You got a ton of great questions, Kendra.
So how do we maintain?
Same thing we did when we first started the company is the communication that we talked about earlier and over communicating.
As leaders, it's really important for us to remind ourselves what our roles are.
And I have a little thing in my office that reminds me, I have three things on my job description.
And that's you have the vision of the company.
have the strategy, and find the best people.
And so when I'm working with the franchisees, day one, that's what we talk about.
You're starting from ground zero.
You're gonna be doing it, doing it, doing it, marketing operations, firing, hiring, all this kind of stuff.
But at the end of the day, you have to have that vision.
You've gotta find the best people.
And the strategy's with us, right?
So we're a team, we can help you.
We know how to make that phone ring, we know how to find the good people.
It's that system, right?
They just have to follow it.
And so how do we train them?
We use a, are you familiar with Traction?
It's called Entrepreneur Operating System.
I think I have a, yeah, EOS, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's EOS.
And so we have like an internal operating system that we use that, and in there they have one of the sections is the way, it's called the way of your business, right?
So we have what's called the Handy Pro Way.
This is how we hire, this is how we fire, this is how we communicate, this is how we market our business, this is how we do the finance, and this is how we have meetings,
weekly meetings, quarterly meetings, annual meetings.
And so we work with our franchisees that
because we have a saying that your business is only as strong as your systems, right?
And so, McDonald's is successful because they know how to make fries over and over and over the same way.
They know how to make a Big Mac.
And so, you go to most places around the world, you're gonna have the same taste, give or take, depending on the country.
And so, we work a lot with them on systems and building systems.
and finding great people to bring in to help you run these systems so you can create super fans every time you go into somebody's house and when you leave they go, I'd be absolutely
crazy to do business with anybody else but Handy Pro.
And so we meet with our franchisees monthly, we have a Zoom meeting.
We just came back from going out to Maryland and D.C.
and West Virginia, visiting them last week.
And so, you know, I love eyeball to eyeball.
You know, I love Zoom because it's better than a phone call, but nothing can meet shaking hands and saying, hey, what's keeping you up at night?
Talk to me.
You know, how can we help you?
So that's how we train and ongoing how we support them as well.
And it's no different with our employees.
fantastic.
And that brings me back to what you said to about, you know, how you maintain quality across all of your different, your different franchises.
And that's, it sounds like, yes, the trust, the training, but also the, the consistency and the consistency that comes from your processes and you know, what better way to,
create a brand name or brand recognition than to have that consistent experience.
If someone moves from one state to another.
And who do you think in that moving process they're going to call?
Right?
If they have a great experience.
I, I, sometimes I feel like consistency is undervalued when it comes to brand recognition and what that does for us.
Would you.
That's worth repeating Kendra, because that is so true.
Really?
Right.
You know, we just got out of the meeting.
Seriously, this is not a set of this.
We're just talking about financials and how our systems work and so forth and making sure we pay people consistently the same way and so forth.
And we were talking, we said, you know, we are
We strive for fairness, we strive for greatness, and we want people to do fair.
And you can't do any of that without being consistent.
Yes.
Be consistent.
So thank you for bringing it up.
That is so true and it's so easy to forget, you know
well, especially as I mean, there isn't much consistent about, you know, some of the experiences we've had as a human race over the past five or six years.
So while things are constantly changing outside, if you can give, if you can give everybody inside your business, but also your customers that engage with your business
every single day, that stability, that consistency, that sense of I there's predictability, I know what's coming next.
That helps.
That's worth its weight in gold.
Because you know that you're that, you're that security blanket almost.
You're the, the reliable source that they can go to.
And especially coming back to your why, right?
It's very on brand so that they don't have to consider, do I trust this person?
Do I not?
They know immediately.
That's it.
That's how you build trust.
Foundation of any business.
So, thank you.
Well, would say that you said it first, and it came right from your meeting,
well that's why it was so well said.
I'm kidding.
No.
absolutely.
So eight locations.
What does, what's on the horizon for Handy Pro?
What's your, you know, your ultimate goal in terms of whether that's location, number of people impacted.
Do you have a kind of a North Star number?
That's a great question and it has changed over the years.
When we first started franchising we said, we want a hundred stores and you know we want to really make an impact with the number of stores.
We have since scaled back and said we don't want to be the biggest, we just want to be the best.
I told you early on that we made mistakes, right?
So we brought in anybody who said they could be a franchise, but they didn't follow the core values.
And it got really hard at some point.
And we said, no, that's not what HandyPro stands for.
So our growth rate is slow, you know?
And it's one that we are doing intentionally because it's not an easy business to run when you have a group of contractors, right?
And at least in the States, and I think Canada is the same way, it's a diminishing trade.
It's hard.
I guess if it was easy to find good guy contractors, we wouldn't exist.
And so to bring that and manage it takes a skill and it takes leadership.
so when we look at that going forward, we want to grow to two to three different franchises a year.
forward and we will hit that hundred number but we're not you know we at one point we were thinking okay you know we could double that but it's more important you get the right
people and in that leadership that way so yeah our you know our number is to get it to a hundred but it's not to do it in four or five years you know it's to do in ten years so
yeah
I love that.
think the intentionality and you you're focusing on quality, not quantity and something built to last.
It's not a way you can grow.
It doesn't do any good if you have unprofitable franchisees growing up, popping up everywhere.
No, they gotta make money and they gotta build a healthy business they can support and grow their team.
Exactly.
Well, and then what does that do if you have one that's, you know, not pulling their weight because they're delivering not great service and, then what does that do to your
reputation overall?
Right.
It impacts every franchise, not just that one.
It starts hurting your brand.
You have to make some tough decisions.
We made them.
It's much easier to say there's something else out there for you than hurting our brand and not taking care of our people.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Not, not easy conversations to have as a leader, but, but necessary.
Yes.
And when you think about the number of people that are impacted versus having that one tough conversation, the tough conversation outweighs the ripple effect from having a, you
know, a misaligned misalignment.
Yes.
Yeah.
It's misaligned.
It's, cause it's true.
Just not there, like you said, just better suited somewhere else, right?
Yes.
right, right.
Doesn't mean they're not good people, just not here.
Exactly, exactly.
And you're doing them a favour by allowing them to go find out where they best are suited.
Yes.
All in the mindset, right?
Yeah.
Amazing.
then.
So one wrap up question for you that I love to ask and I love to ask leaders who like yourself, who understand what leadership means, who understand, you know, the highs and
lows, the ebbs and flows and knowing that there will be days where it's gonna suck.
There are days where it's a lot of fun, but everything in between is why you do it.
And that requires, as you've said, skill and specific skills.
You can have technical skills.
You can have, you know, area of expertise, but at the end of the day, soft skills are always what help us drive those technical skills forward that help us grow sustainably to
your point, and that allow us to be exceptional leaders.
My question for you is, what do you think is at this point the most important soft skill for a leader to possess?
listening.
And why is that?
I said, and why is that?
What do they say?
Two ears, one mouth, use them in that order?
Again, I, in my young leadership, I thought we had to have all the answers and the opposite really, really is true.
I, there is a big chain here in Michigan.
that's called Meyer, used to be called Meyer Thrifty Acres.
And what they do, they have a big grocery store and it's, you know, they have a whole bunch of retail.
And I was fortunate enough to meet the son of the owner who has really taken the company.
I don't know, I was probably 18 at the time and I was able to just ask him one question and that question was, what makes you successful?
And he said, hire people that are smarter than you.
and listen to them.
And so I remember that obviously to this day.
And for me, it's pretty easy.
As you could probably tell, there's a lot of more smart people than I am, more highly intelligent.
And so, any entrepreneur that's listening to this, that's starting from the ground up, it's tough when you have to hire somebody to help you lead the company.
And because you're like, how can I afford this?
I can barely make it on my own.
know, what if I hire a operations guy, a marketing guy, whatever that situation may be.
But what I found early on is that when you hire somebody who believes in your story, who has the experience, you listen to them and your company will grow.
And I found out real quickly that, because in the beginning I'm doing the marketing operations, finance, all that kind of stuff, that when we hired somebody else,
They helped us not only elevate our business but escalate and scale efficiently and effectively because they were smarter.
You you got a specialist in finance, we got a specialist in operations, a specialist in marketing, and then just shut up, let them go.
It's really asking the right questions, right?
Right?
Where do you think we should go?
Why do you think that way?
What do you think?
Is there a better way that we could be thinking about and asking these questions and just listening as we said in the beginning?
The number one, number one skill set.
Number one skill set.
Amazing.
I've heard before hire people that are smarter than you, but no one's ever capped it off with and listened to them.
So I think that's, that is the key part of that sentence, right?
It's one thing to hire them, but if you don't listen to them, then yeah, you probably can't afford it and you are throwing your money away.
but if you listen to them, you see the results that, that you have, which is growth, scaling, sustainability.
All of those.
Yeah.
It's sustainability.
You can grow, but are you sustainable?
Yes, exactly.
And I think that's why most, I mean, there are some business owners who obviously have an exit planned.
But if you want to create that impact over a long period of time, then why, why does it need to be five years versus 10 years to your point, right?
Why do you need a hundred franchises in five years?
Why not do it in 10 years and double, triple, quadruple your impact because you're doing it sustainably.
Yep.
You can droople your impact on the people that you serve first.
Yes.
brilliant.
Brilliant, brilliant.
Well, Keith, I want to thank you so much for sharing your insight and your journey and your big why.
I think there are so many nuggets in today's episode and I just really want to thank you again for your time, sharing your experience and you know, folks listening would like to
get in touch with you, learn more about you.
Where can they do that?
LinkedIn or handypro.com or my email is kpaul at handypro.com anywhere or you can Kendra she'll forward you to me so
yeah, exactly.
Beautiful.
Thank you so, so much, Keith.
Really excited to share this out to the world and see how much more impact you can continue to make.
Kendra, thank you, and I appreciate you not only calling us, but having such a great interview.
Interviews, again, asking the right questions, and I can't even believe it's been 45 minutes.
It's just been having a blast.
So that just kudos to you.
Keep up the good work, and keep sharing best practices for those who, especially if they're younger, getting into this.
Hopefully we can help them avoid a lot of the mistakes that we made.
That's the intention.
So thank you.
I appreciate those kind words.
It's nice to know that, you know, we're having an impact too, just through a conversation and yeah, we could spend a lot more time.
If we could flash this out for a lot longer.
All right.
Thank you.
Been a pleasure.