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Keith, it's great to have you on Beyond Titles today.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to join me.

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And I'm really looking forward to diving into our conversation because you have, first of
all, a very big why behind your business and why you started HandyPro, which I'm excited

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to dive into.

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And you also have, you know, with expansion.

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You have remarkable leadership.

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ethos about you.

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So I'm thrilled for our listeners to hear more about the way in which you lead and how
you've built your business.

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Before we get into some of those details, I'd love if you could just give a quick little
intro into who you are, what you're all about, and some of the fun things you're working

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on right

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Thank you, Kendra.

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I appreciate it and it's a pleasure to be here.

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I'm excited to spend a little bit of time with you.

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A little bit about me.

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Well, we started the company, it's called Handy Pro.

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Back then it was called Home Advantage.

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We weren't trademarked then, but we started it about 29 years ago.

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I started when I was two.

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And we started because my wife's grandmother, is, she was 82 years old.

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She lived in Allen Park, Michigan here, and she was having a kitchen remodeling project
completed.

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And the contractor in the middle of the job came up to her and said, you know, hey, I need
$2,000 more because I underbid the cabinets.

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And she's a trusting soul, pulled out her checkbook, handed it over, and lo and behold, he
never came back.

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So yeah, my wife and I were looking to start a business and we said, boy, I wonder if
there's a business that we could start that can protect seniors from dishonest

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contractors.

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Because everybody's got their story.

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Kendra, you mentioned that you've heard so many yourself.

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So we started as a home improvement referral service and we used to do certifications on
electricians and plumbers and handymen and window and painters.

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And we had so many calls for handymen, Kendra, that my wife being the beautiful brains
that she is said, let's hire somebody.

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So we did, we hired somebody because we couldn't find enough handymen to meet the demand.

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That was back in 1996 and then we hired two, then three, then four, then

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and by 2000 we had 10 and we were getting calls around the country asking how we're doing
what we're doing and so now fast forward we have eight offices around the country here in

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the US not to Toronto yet but we're coming.

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hey, come on over.

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And so, you know, it's just been an honor, you know, when people ask you in their home
that, you know, they pay you to do it and you're in their most personal space, it's a true

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honor.

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It really is.

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And we're having a blast doing it.

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So thanks again for having me on the show.

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of course.

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that's, that's one of the things that I really loved when we first spoke, Keith, was that
you had such a, such an impactful and personal why behind starting your business.

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Yes, you said you and your wife were looking to start a business anyways.

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However, it seems as unfortunate as the situation is almost kismet that that happened,
which was a catalyst for Handy Pro to, to come to life really.

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Right.

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And so.

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I mean, off the top of your head, how many seniors do you think you have saved from
dishonest contractors?

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billions.

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No.

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Well, we do any, you know, around three to 5,000, we help three to 5,000 people a year.

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on average, sometimes a little bit more depending on the project.

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Cause you know, we'll put a grab bar or we'll do an addition.

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So it's, you know, and it's not all seniors now it's, it's people who are busy to family
income and.

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We're helping people, business owners now, every home needs a trusted handyman, right?

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Every business needs one.

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And so, yeah, yeah, but the foundation of it is to protect seniors.

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We love doing work, you know, to help somebody paint their house and all that, when you do
it at somebody, and it's not only seniors, it's people with disabilities, right?

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So we could put a wheelchair ramp in, a ceiling lift or stair lift, but it's just a little
bit more special when you give somebody the freedom in their own home.

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Yeah.

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you look on our website in West Virginia, we have a, a franchise owner and he tells a
story of how he's working for a veteran.

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And he came back the next day after putting the wheelchair ramp in and the, knocked on the
door and the wife came and he said, you just want to make sure you're okay with the job.

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And, you know, we'd like to collect on it.

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And he said, I haven't seen my husband the whole day.

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He's out coming in and out of the house, saying hi to the neighbors.

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And he hasn't been able to.

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do that for a year.

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yeah, kind of fun.

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And then tonight.

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fulfilling fulfilling 100 % and now you're sharing you're giving other other people so
your franchise owners the opportunity to also get that feel fulfilled and get that that

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opportunity to help others which is really special really really special and fun and fun
and so it's interesting because you mentioned you have eight locations correct across

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the United States.

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So eight locations with a number of different employees and contractors coming in and out.

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So obviously with you being the nucleus, you've set values, you've set criteria, and
clearly you have very high standards and expectations for the people that are working for

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you and that are under your brand.

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So

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How do you maintain consistency and ensure quality across all of these locations, knowing
they're spread out?

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And I guess that also kind of segues into how do you find the right franchise owners to
know that they are aligned with your business?

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What a great question, right?

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And one that every business owner, whether you have one employee or a hundred employees,
has to answer that question.

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mine is, how do I know?

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I've made enough mistakes to find out what not to do.

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Experience is the best teacher, hindsight's 20-20.

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But it's critical.

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Right, for a business to know their purpose, to know what their vision and values and
mission is.

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And it's critical to over communicate that with your team because what we have really
found is that most people...

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They want to be part of something bigger than themselves, right?

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And we're not just a home improvement contractor.

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We're people that go in and make a difference in the lives of other people.

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And when we first started the company and we first started franchising, and a lot of
franchisers make the mistake, just bring it in.

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People in, okay, cool, you want to be part of our family?

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Well, that's a mistake.

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because not everybody shares the values of what it means to take care of other people.

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so when we found out that we didn't, we under-communicated the vision and the values and
our core values, there was a lot of chaos, right?

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What does taking care of your employees mean to you?

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What does taking care of your clients mean to you?

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Those are the questions we didn't ask in the beginning.

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And now we over-ask because if the values don't align, you're going to have this.

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And you're going to have unhappy employees.

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You're going to have unhappy clients.

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And so it's critical.

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It's critical that you know what your mission is and you know what your vision and what
you stand for as a company.

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And know, if you want to change lives, it's here at HandyPro.

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That's what we stand for.

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Did I answer your question?

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I think that more than answered my question.

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That exceeded the expectation of my question.

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And, you know, especially in a franchise environment, I think you hit the nail on the head
there.

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No, no pun intended.

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When people, thank you.

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Thanks.

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Just came to me.

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You know, when people do just say, okay, yeah, you want to be part of our brand?

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Come on in, because it means that the business is growing.

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And that's obviously what some of the KPIs are is to expand, is to grow, to bring on more
franchisees.

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But it sounds like you've been very intentional with who you have coming in and...

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And you mentioned obviously, you know, I'm guessing that at the beginning there were some
misaligned or misalignments with, you know, with potential employees or past employees.

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And so you've made some mistakes.

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figured it out now, you know, to over communicate the, the vision mission and values.

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Are there any other learnings?

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We'll call them learnings or lessons that you had early on that have shaped how you, how
you operate as a business today.

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How much time do we have?

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no, it's it.

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The biggest lesson is basically what we said, bring into your company who people who
thrive on your story and that can connect with it, whether it's an employee, a

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subcontractor, a vendor, a franchisee, somebody on your leadership team and

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boy, the world is so much better when they are both aligned, regardless, even vendors.

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There was a time when we partnered with another company who ended up going bankrupt and it
hurt Handy Pro, but because we had a really good, solid relationship with our vendors and

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so forth, we went to them and said, hey, listen,

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You know, I can't pay you today.

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Can you wait 30 days?

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Can you wait 60 days?

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You have my word, we're gonna do it.

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And they said, no problem.

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We believe you.

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know, our businesses go up and down and everybody got paid and we had even stronger
relationships that way.

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So, you know, it just makes life easier when you get people who you're aligned in every
aspect of your business.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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And I love that the building of the relationships, I'm sure it's not easy to go out and
find reputable vendors over and over again.

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So why put yourself through the stress and the hardship of having to start new
relationships consistently, right?

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The 80-20 rule at the end of the day.

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Yeah.

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Yes.

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you take care of anybody who's part of your company and they take care of you

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Yeah.

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And the other thing that I really want to highlight that you mentioned was that you, you
know, you shared some of those, those struggles or perhaps where you were at in the moment

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upfront.

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So there's a lot of transparency in those relationships and interactions.

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And, know, would you agree that that's one of the things that's helped you create the
culture that you have at Handy Pro is the, just the, the sheer transparency of here's what

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we're working with.

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Here's where we want to go.

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Here's what we're doing and here's what we're delivering.

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And

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everything's kind of on the table.

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For me, yes.

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For me, yes.

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You know, I tried to be that, you know, that founder, CEO that knows everything and hasn't
made mistakes, but that didn't work.

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People who think they're perfect bother us who really are, right?

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No, I'm kidding.

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I'm kidding.

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It is.

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I mean, you know, when you're vulnerable as a leader, people can relate to you.

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You know, the leadership style of do what I say, you know, it just doesn't fly anymore.

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It's not the culture that we're in.

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It's not the culture that we want to build here at HandyPro.

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We're a team.

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We work really hard, but we have a lot of fun doing it.

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know, so transparency in my opinion, whether, you know, any employee can come in here and
they want to talk about the financials, I'll sit down with you.

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You know, let's talk about it.

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You know, how do we market?

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You know, we're very, very transparent.

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I'm thinking it's a key, you know, part of our key to success.

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It's all about trust, right?

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And it eliminates some of those, well, what are you actually doing over there?

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And how do we make money?

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And I think, yeah, exactly, exactly.

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And it also helps to tie the thread between what your employees do and the direct impact
of the work that they have, how the work that they do impacts the business overall, if

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they understand, you know,

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you market?

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What does this look like?

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What does our monthly quota look like?

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Whatever, however you measure that.

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But for them to actually see the impact of their work, I think, is also very motivating
for individuals.

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I love it, Kendra.

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You hit the nail on the head.

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How does what they do every single day when they get up to work and they have the hammers,
how does that fit within the whole grand scheme of things?

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Most people want to know.

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Most people want to know.

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Some people want to just come in, do a paycheck, get paid well, okay.

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But some people want to know what kind of difference they're making in the big picture.

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So thanks for bringing that up, that's good.

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of course.

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It's really important and I think it's often overlooked.

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You know, it's just the...

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that the small actions that we have every single day that might seem mundane or might seem
like I wake up and it's Groundhog Day and I go to work and I do this and I do that.

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But in the long run, it's those little ripple effects that create and cause big impact and
big impact, whether that's in one person's life, whether that's in the lives of, you know,

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what did you say, four or 5,000 people that you help in a year?

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Yeah.

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So.

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Pretty awesome.

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had a conversation with one of our craftsmen once and he said, well, you know, you're the
CEO, you're important.

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And, you know, I'm just a craftsman guy.

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And I says, okay, well, let me ask you a question.

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What happens when you don't show up at work?

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Chaos happens, you know?

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And I said, got to call clients.

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We got to call their people.

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When I don't show up at work.

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Nobody knows.

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where's Keith?

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I said, you make more of a difference than I do.

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wow, I'm sure he walked away just beaming after that.

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How could you not, right?

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Yeah, yes, yes.

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And so with that, mean, you, as you said, you started the business.

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a of decades ago, a few decades ago now, and from where you started at in your role and
involvement in the business to where you are now, how has your involvement, your

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leadership style, and kind of the areas that you focus on, how have those changed over
time?

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Well, when we first started, was just Deb and I and one craftsman.

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And so we were Jack of all trades doing all the business stuff.

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I'm not much of a handyman.

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00:16:32,813 --> 00:16:34,103
My wife calls me Mr.

219
00:16:34,103 --> 00:16:35,354
Make it worse.

220
00:16:35,354 --> 00:16:37,754
So I stayed out of the field.

221
00:16:38,135 --> 00:16:41,735
Even though I'm a licensed builder, I had to get it for the business and stuff.

222
00:16:42,476 --> 00:16:44,596
So yeah, we were doing everything, right?

223
00:16:44,596 --> 00:16:47,437
I was answering the phone, I was scheduling, I was...

224
00:16:47,437 --> 00:16:52,537
hiring and so forth and growing it that way.

225
00:16:52,637 --> 00:17:05,597
And now, you know, my day to day is I get to work with a lot with directly with the
location owners, franchise owners and with the leadership team.

226
00:17:05,857 --> 00:17:08,917
I really miss working day to day working with the craftsmen.

227
00:17:08,917 --> 00:17:12,057
I just sat in with one of our craftsmen meetings last Friday.

228
00:17:12,057 --> 00:17:13,337
I was like, it's good to see you guys.

229
00:17:13,337 --> 00:17:14,097
I miss you.

230
00:17:14,097 --> 00:17:16,077
You know, that was so much fun.

231
00:17:16,321 --> 00:17:22,646
But the change, gosh, the change is what we talked about earlier.

232
00:17:22,646 --> 00:17:26,648
When I was younger, I thought a leader had to know everything.

233
00:17:27,789 --> 00:17:28,760
I really did.

234
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,231
And I had to have all the answers.

235
00:17:31,231 --> 00:17:41,492
And it's, I can't say the opposite is true, but it's okay to say, I don't know, what do
you think?

236
00:17:41,492 --> 00:17:42,285
Yeah.

237
00:17:45,634 --> 00:17:48,055
Where do you think the company should go?

238
00:17:48,055 --> 00:17:49,315
You're on the front lines.

239
00:17:49,315 --> 00:17:51,636
What are you hearing from the clients?

240
00:17:52,077 --> 00:18:00,000
And that was probably my biggest leadership change from saying, okay, I have all the
answers.

241
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:00,810
I'm leading the ship.

242
00:18:00,810 --> 00:18:03,731
I got it to, hey, what do you guys think?

243
00:18:03,731 --> 00:18:04,701
What are you guys hearing?

244
00:18:04,701 --> 00:18:06,562
Where should we go?

245
00:18:08,523 --> 00:18:14,014
Whether it's with the marketing or the operations or the finance, all together.

246
00:18:14,014 --> 00:18:20,846
Very smart, very smart, because who knows best than the people who are interacting with
your client every single day.

247
00:18:21,709 --> 00:18:22,630
Yeah.

248
00:18:23,136 --> 00:18:23,877
You got it.

249
00:18:23,877 --> 00:18:26,922
They're hearing what the customer is saying, not us.

250
00:18:26,922 --> 00:18:29,053
Yeah, exactly.

251
00:18:29,053 --> 00:18:33,145
So you've transitioned, you delegate more now.

252
00:18:33,145 --> 00:18:39,197
And I, I really appreciate though, that you still sit in, you under, you know, you sit in
on different areas of the business.

253
00:18:39,197 --> 00:18:44,299
So you understand and you get a pulse on what's happening in all of the different areas.

254
00:18:44,299 --> 00:18:48,761
It's not just in one, you know, you're not just kind of siloed to the office and that's
it.

255
00:18:48,761 --> 00:18:50,312
And that's where you stay.

256
00:18:50,312 --> 00:18:55,734
I think that's the making of a great CEO, a great leader is when you can, you can sit in
there's

257
00:18:56,084 --> 00:18:58,916
There's also the open door policy where people can come and talk to you.

258
00:18:58,916 --> 00:19:01,417
They can feel, they feel comfortable, right?

259
00:19:01,417 --> 00:19:03,519
They feel like they have a seat at the table.

260
00:19:03,519 --> 00:19:12,524
And that's as much as we've gotten away from the do as I say, or we're trying to get away
from that style of leadership, it still exists.

261
00:19:12,665 --> 00:19:14,086
It still exists.

262
00:19:14,086 --> 00:19:14,966
So.

263
00:19:15,229 --> 00:19:18,154
still got to do that once in a while, but not too often.

264
00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:20,753
Things got to get done.

265
00:19:20,753 --> 00:19:27,729
learning a new skill and that sort of thing, then it's good to do as I say, because
there's a step-by-step process.

266
00:19:27,729 --> 00:19:32,283
And if you don't, you might hurt yourself or we might, you know, delete all of our
financial data.

267
00:19:32,283 --> 00:19:34,263
Yeah, exactly.

268
00:19:34,425 --> 00:19:35,685
Exactly.

269
00:19:36,747 --> 00:19:42,172
So when you think about, yes, people are connected to the overall vision of Handy Pro.

270
00:19:42,172 --> 00:19:45,182
And that's why they would come to you specifically through the...

271
00:19:45,182 --> 00:19:46,422
the franchisee lens.

272
00:19:46,422 --> 00:19:57,345
I'm really curious about that side of your business because I think what you offer is very
unique in terms of a business model and you've now scaled it across the country.

273
00:19:57,345 --> 00:20:04,157
So people come to you, franchisees, you set them up and then how do you maintain your
communication with them?

274
00:20:04,157 --> 00:20:05,928
How do you train them?

275
00:20:05,928 --> 00:20:10,049
What does that look like internally without giving away too many of your secrets?

276
00:20:10,049 --> 00:20:14,782
But how does that function to keep them their

277
00:20:14,782 --> 00:20:20,110
They're essentially an independent operating entity, but they're still part of the team.

278
00:20:20,110 --> 00:20:22,794
So how do you find that balance?

279
00:20:23,757 --> 00:20:26,937
Mmm, real good question.

280
00:20:26,937 --> 00:20:29,997
You got a ton of great questions, Kendra.

281
00:20:30,857 --> 00:20:33,117
So how do we maintain?

282
00:20:35,501 --> 00:20:45,421
Same thing we did when we first started the company is the communication that we talked
about earlier and over communicating.

283
00:20:46,881 --> 00:20:52,481
As leaders, it's really important for us to remind ourselves what our roles are.

284
00:20:52,901 --> 00:21:02,041
And I have a little thing in my office that reminds me, I have three things on my job
description.

285
00:21:02,041 --> 00:21:04,201
And that's you have the vision of the company.

286
00:21:04,587 --> 00:21:08,000
have the strategy, and find the best people.

287
00:21:08,581 --> 00:21:17,849
And so when I'm working with the franchisees, day one, that's what we talk about.

288
00:21:17,849 --> 00:21:20,831
You're starting from ground zero.

289
00:21:20,831 --> 00:21:25,376
You're gonna be doing it, doing it, doing it, marketing operations, firing, hiring, all
this kind of stuff.

290
00:21:25,376 --> 00:21:28,699
But at the end of the day, you have to have that vision.

291
00:21:28,699 --> 00:21:30,891
You've gotta find the best people.

292
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,190
And the strategy's with us, right?

293
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:35,652
So we're a team, we can help you.

294
00:21:35,652 --> 00:21:38,954
We know how to make that phone ring, we know how to find the good people.

295
00:21:38,954 --> 00:21:42,055
It's that system, right?

296
00:21:42,115 --> 00:21:43,856
They just have to follow it.

297
00:21:44,437 --> 00:21:46,978
And so how do we train them?

298
00:21:46,978 --> 00:21:50,880
We use a, are you familiar with Traction?

299
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,221
It's called Entrepreneur Operating System.

300
00:21:54,222 --> 00:21:58,464
I think I have a, yeah, EOS, yeah.

301
00:21:58,464 --> 00:21:59,644
Yeah, yeah.

302
00:21:59,644 --> 00:22:01,237
So it's EOS.

303
00:22:01,485 --> 00:22:13,085
And so we have like an internal operating system that we use that, and in there they have
one of the sections is the way, it's called the way of your business, right?

304
00:22:13,085 --> 00:22:15,785
So we have what's called the Handy Pro Way.

305
00:22:15,985 --> 00:22:24,905
This is how we hire, this is how we fire, this is how we communicate, this is how we
market our business, this is how we do the finance, and this is how we have meetings,

306
00:22:24,905 --> 00:22:27,845
weekly meetings, quarterly meetings, annual meetings.

307
00:22:28,165 --> 00:22:31,077
And so we work with our franchisees that

308
00:22:31,563 --> 00:22:39,035
because we have a saying that your business is only as strong as your systems, right?

309
00:22:39,075 --> 00:22:47,837
And so, McDonald's is successful because they know how to make fries over and over and
over the same way.

310
00:22:47,837 --> 00:22:49,298
They know how to make a Big Mac.

311
00:22:49,298 --> 00:22:55,639
And so, you go to most places around the world, you're gonna have the same taste, give or
take, depending on the country.

312
00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:01,707
And so, we work a lot with them on systems and building systems.

313
00:23:01,707 --> 00:23:14,551
and finding great people to bring in to help you run these systems so you can create super
fans every time you go into somebody's house and when you leave they go, I'd be absolutely

314
00:23:14,551 --> 00:23:18,501
crazy to do business with anybody else but Handy Pro.

315
00:23:18,762 --> 00:23:24,243
And so we meet with our franchisees monthly, we have a Zoom meeting.

316
00:23:24,243 --> 00:23:28,124
We just came back from going out to Maryland and D.C.

317
00:23:28,124 --> 00:23:31,501
and West Virginia, visiting them last week.

318
00:23:31,743 --> 00:23:34,155
And so, you know, I love eyeball to eyeball.

319
00:23:34,155 --> 00:23:41,722
You know, I love Zoom because it's better than a phone call, but nothing can meet shaking
hands and saying, hey, what's keeping you up at night?

320
00:23:42,323 --> 00:23:43,304
Talk to me.

321
00:23:43,304 --> 00:23:45,065
You know, how can we help you?

322
00:23:45,286 --> 00:23:50,931
So that's how we train and ongoing how we support them as well.

323
00:23:50,931 --> 00:23:53,503
And it's no different with our employees.

324
00:23:53,917 --> 00:23:54,617
fantastic.

325
00:23:54,617 --> 00:24:03,234
And that brings me back to what you said to about, you know, how you maintain quality
across all of your different, your different franchises.

326
00:24:03,234 --> 00:24:15,064
And that's, it sounds like, yes, the trust, the training, but also the, the consistency
and the consistency that comes from your processes and you know, what better way to,

327
00:24:15,064 --> 00:24:19,358
create a brand name or brand recognition than to have that consistent experience.

328
00:24:19,358 --> 00:24:22,390
If someone moves from one state to another.

329
00:24:22,468 --> 00:24:26,061
And who do you think in that moving process they're going to call?

330
00:24:26,942 --> 00:24:27,212
Right?

331
00:24:27,212 --> 00:24:28,453
If they have a great experience.

332
00:24:28,453 --> 00:24:39,092
I, I, sometimes I feel like consistency is undervalued when it comes to brand recognition
and what that does for us.

333
00:24:39,894 --> 00:24:40,755
Would you.

334
00:24:40,755 --> 00:24:44,666
That's worth repeating Kendra, because that is so true.

335
00:24:45,046 --> 00:24:45,516
Really?

336
00:24:45,516 --> 00:24:49,727
Right.

337
00:24:50,008 --> 00:24:52,148
You know, we just got out of the meeting.

338
00:24:52,148 --> 00:24:54,909
Seriously, this is not a set of this.

339
00:24:54,909 --> 00:25:04,612
We're just talking about financials and how our systems work and so forth and making sure
we pay people consistently the same way and so forth.

340
00:25:04,712 --> 00:25:08,673
And we were talking, we said, you know, we are

341
00:25:08,673 --> 00:25:14,177
We strive for fairness, we strive for greatness, and we want people to do fair.

342
00:25:14,478 --> 00:25:18,601
And you can't do any of that without being consistent.

343
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:20,022
Yes.

344
00:25:20,710 --> 00:25:21,462
Be consistent.

345
00:25:21,462 --> 00:25:22,634
So thank you for bringing it up.

346
00:25:22,634 --> 00:25:25,490
That is so true and it's so easy to forget, you know

347
00:25:25,490 --> 00:25:35,936
well, especially as I mean, there isn't much consistent about, you know, some of the
experiences we've had as a human race over the past five or six years.

348
00:25:36,516 --> 00:25:45,561
So while things are constantly changing outside, if you can give, if you can give
everybody inside your business, but also your customers that engage with your business

349
00:25:45,561 --> 00:25:54,086
every single day, that stability, that consistency, that sense of I there's
predictability, I know what's coming next.

350
00:25:54,696 --> 00:25:55,436
That helps.

351
00:25:55,436 --> 00:25:57,407
That's worth its weight in gold.

352
00:25:57,907 --> 00:26:01,999
Because you know that you're that, you're that security blanket almost.

353
00:26:01,999 --> 00:26:05,430
You're the, the reliable source that they can go to.

354
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:08,141
And especially coming back to your why, right?

355
00:26:08,141 --> 00:26:13,123
It's very on brand so that they don't have to consider, do I trust this person?

356
00:26:13,123 --> 00:26:13,873
Do I not?

357
00:26:13,873 --> 00:26:16,094
They know immediately.

358
00:26:17,229 --> 00:26:17,773
That's it.

359
00:26:17,773 --> 00:26:19,000
That's how you build trust.

360
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,948
Foundation of any business.

361
00:26:21,432 --> 00:26:24,253
So, thank you.

362
00:26:24,253 --> 00:26:28,301
Well, would say that you said it first, and it came right from your meeting,

363
00:26:30,476 --> 00:26:32,170
well that's why it was so well said.

364
00:26:32,170 --> 00:26:33,142
I'm kidding.

365
00:26:33,142 --> 00:26:33,767
No.

366
00:26:33,767 --> 00:26:35,067
absolutely.

367
00:26:36,168 --> 00:26:38,689
So eight locations.

368
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:42,792
What does, what's on the horizon for Handy Pro?

369
00:26:42,792 --> 00:26:50,646
What's your, you know, your ultimate goal in terms of whether that's location, number of
people impacted.

370
00:26:50,646 --> 00:26:53,637
Do you have a kind of a North Star number?

371
00:26:56,194 --> 00:26:59,835
That's a great question and it has changed over the years.

372
00:26:59,996 --> 00:27:10,420
When we first started franchising we said, we want a hundred stores and you know we want
to really make an impact with the number of stores.

373
00:27:11,161 --> 00:27:19,785
We have since scaled back and said we don't want to be the biggest, we just want to be the
best.

374
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:22,660
I told you early on that we made mistakes, right?

375
00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:27,771
So we brought in anybody who said they could be a franchise, but they didn't follow the
core values.

376
00:27:27,771 --> 00:27:29,562
And it got really hard at some point.

377
00:27:29,562 --> 00:27:32,653
And we said, no, that's not what HandyPro stands for.

378
00:27:32,653 --> 00:27:36,624
So our growth rate is slow, you know?

379
00:27:36,624 --> 00:27:47,240
And it's one that we are doing intentionally because it's not an easy business to run when
you have a group of contractors, right?

380
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:53,014
And at least in the States, and I think Canada is the same way, it's a diminishing trade.

381
00:27:53,675 --> 00:27:54,716
It's hard.

382
00:27:54,716 --> 00:28:00,300
I guess if it was easy to find good guy contractors, we wouldn't exist.

383
00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:08,046
And so to bring that and manage it takes a skill and it takes leadership.

384
00:28:08,627 --> 00:28:17,353
so when we look at that going forward, we want to grow to two to three different
franchises a year.

385
00:28:17,449 --> 00:28:28,700
forward and we will hit that hundred number but we're not you know we at one point we were
thinking okay you know we could double that but it's more important you get the right

386
00:28:28,700 --> 00:28:40,833
people and in that leadership that way so yeah our you know our number is to get it to a
hundred but it's not to do it in four or five years you know it's to do in ten years so

387
00:28:40,833 --> 00:28:41,673
yeah

388
00:28:42,087 --> 00:28:42,828
I love that.

389
00:28:42,828 --> 00:28:43,538
I love that.

390
00:28:43,538 --> 00:28:51,597
think the intentionality and you you're focusing on quality, not quantity and something
built to last.

391
00:28:51,597 --> 00:28:53,317
It's not a way you can grow.

392
00:28:53,317 --> 00:28:57,817
It doesn't do any good if you have unprofitable franchisees growing up, popping up
everywhere.

393
00:28:57,817 --> 00:29:04,090
No, they gotta make money and they gotta build a healthy business they can support and
grow their team.

394
00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:05,011
Exactly.

395
00:29:05,011 --> 00:29:13,420
Well, and then what does that do if you have one that's, you know, not pulling their
weight because they're delivering not great service and, then what does that do to your

396
00:29:13,420 --> 00:29:14,922
reputation overall?

397
00:29:14,922 --> 00:29:15,172
Right.

398
00:29:15,172 --> 00:29:19,386
It impacts every franchise, not just that one.

399
00:29:20,469 --> 00:29:22,253
It starts hurting your brand.

400
00:29:22,253 --> 00:29:24,396
You have to make some tough decisions.

401
00:29:24,396 --> 00:29:25,599
We made them.

402
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:33,448
It's much easier to say there's something else out there for you than hurting our brand
and not taking care of our people.

403
00:29:33,448 --> 00:29:33,948
Absolutely.

404
00:29:33,948 --> 00:29:34,279
Yeah.

405
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:40,303
Not, not easy conversations to have as a leader, but, but necessary.

406
00:29:40,303 --> 00:29:40,963
Yes.

407
00:29:40,963 --> 00:29:52,664
And when you think about the number of people that are impacted versus having that one
tough conversation, the tough conversation outweighs the ripple effect from having a, you

408
00:29:52,664 --> 00:29:56,153
know, a misaligned misalignment.

409
00:29:56,334 --> 00:29:57,034
Yes.

410
00:29:57,034 --> 00:29:57,974
Yes.

411
00:29:57,975 --> 00:29:58,465
Yeah.

412
00:29:58,465 --> 00:30:00,477
It's misaligned.

413
00:30:00,477 --> 00:30:02,920
It's, cause it's true.

414
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:07,584
Just not there, like you said, just better suited somewhere else, right?

415
00:30:07,848 --> 00:30:08,703
Yes.

416
00:30:08,703 --> 00:30:10,177
right, right.

417
00:30:10,177 --> 00:30:13,454
Doesn't mean they're not good people, just not here.

418
00:30:13,454 --> 00:30:15,297
Exactly, exactly.

419
00:30:15,297 --> 00:30:20,344
And you're doing them a favour by allowing them to go find out where they best are suited.

420
00:30:20,466 --> 00:30:21,386
Yes.

421
00:30:22,409 --> 00:30:24,250
All in the mindset, right?

422
00:30:25,153 --> 00:30:27,927
Yeah.

423
00:30:27,927 --> 00:30:28,566
Amazing.

424
00:30:28,566 --> 00:30:29,257
then.

425
00:30:30,450 --> 00:30:42,055
So one wrap up question for you that I love to ask and I love to ask leaders who like
yourself, who understand what leadership means, who understand, you know, the highs and

426
00:30:42,055 --> 00:30:47,697
lows, the ebbs and flows and knowing that there will be days where it's gonna suck.

427
00:30:47,697 --> 00:30:53,299
There are days where it's a lot of fun, but everything in between is why you do it.

428
00:30:53,620 --> 00:30:57,851
And that requires, as you've said, skill and specific skills.

429
00:30:57,851 --> 00:30:59,822
You can have technical skills.

430
00:31:00,094 --> 00:31:12,114
You can have, you know, area of expertise, but at the end of the day, soft skills are
always what help us drive those technical skills forward that help us grow sustainably to

431
00:31:12,114 --> 00:31:15,446
your point, and that allow us to be exceptional leaders.

432
00:31:16,247 --> 00:31:24,774
My question for you is, what do you think is at this point the most important soft skill
for a leader to possess?

433
00:31:30,955 --> 00:31:31,976
listening.

434
00:31:33,128 --> 00:31:34,382
And why is that?

435
00:31:35,653 --> 00:31:37,188
I said, and why is that?

436
00:31:39,009 --> 00:31:39,969
What do they say?

437
00:31:39,969 --> 00:31:42,490
Two ears, one mouth, use them in that order?

438
00:31:44,892 --> 00:31:51,655
Again, I, in my young leadership, I thought we had to have all the answers and the
opposite really, really is true.

439
00:31:53,036 --> 00:31:57,658
I, there is a big chain here in Michigan.

440
00:31:57,838 --> 00:32:00,978
that's called Meyer, used to be called Meyer Thrifty Acres.

441
00:32:00,978 --> 00:32:05,618
And what they do, they have a big grocery store and it's, you know, they have a whole
bunch of retail.

442
00:32:05,618 --> 00:32:12,018
And I was fortunate enough to meet the son of the owner who has really taken the company.

443
00:32:12,178 --> 00:32:21,818
I don't know, I was probably 18 at the time and I was able to just ask him one question
and that question was, what makes you successful?

444
00:32:22,078 --> 00:32:26,778
And he said, hire people that are smarter than you.

445
00:32:27,477 --> 00:32:28,818
and listen to them.

446
00:32:29,659 --> 00:32:33,481
And so I remember that obviously to this day.

447
00:32:34,663 --> 00:32:35,914
And for me, it's pretty easy.

448
00:32:35,914 --> 00:32:43,950
As you could probably tell, there's a lot of more smart people than I am, more highly
intelligent.

449
00:32:44,271 --> 00:32:56,601
And so, any entrepreneur that's listening to this, that's starting from the ground up,
it's tough when you have to hire somebody to help you lead the company.

450
00:32:57,053 --> 00:32:59,565
And because you're like, how can I afford this?

451
00:32:59,565 --> 00:33:01,477
I can barely make it on my own.

452
00:33:01,477 --> 00:33:07,460
know, what if I hire a operations guy, a marketing guy, whatever that situation may be.

453
00:33:07,841 --> 00:33:24,053
But what I found early on is that when you hire somebody who believes in your story, who
has the experience, you listen to them and your company will grow.

454
00:33:24,587 --> 00:33:33,387
And I found out real quickly that, because in the beginning I'm doing the marketing
operations, finance, all that kind of stuff, that when we hired somebody else,

455
00:33:34,968 --> 00:33:45,404
They helped us not only elevate our business but escalate and scale efficiently and
effectively because they were smarter.

456
00:33:45,404 --> 00:33:58,110
You you got a specialist in finance, we got a specialist in operations, a specialist in
marketing, and then just shut up, let them go.

457
00:33:59,972 --> 00:34:02,539
It's really asking the right questions, right?

458
00:34:02,539 --> 00:34:02,859
Right?

459
00:34:02,859 --> 00:34:04,531
Where do you think we should go?

460
00:34:04,531 --> 00:34:06,352
Why do you think that way?

461
00:34:06,352 --> 00:34:07,213
What do you think?

462
00:34:07,213 --> 00:34:13,877
Is there a better way that we could be thinking about and asking these questions and just
listening as we said in the beginning?

463
00:34:14,218 --> 00:34:16,900
The number one, number one skill set.

464
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:18,086
Number one skill set.

465
00:34:18,086 --> 00:34:18,806
Amazing.

466
00:34:18,806 --> 00:34:19,356
Amazing.

467
00:34:19,356 --> 00:34:25,868
I've heard before hire people that are smarter than you, but no one's ever capped it off
with and listened to them.

468
00:34:25,868 --> 00:34:30,739
So I think that's, that is the key part of that sentence, right?

469
00:34:30,739 --> 00:34:38,231
It's one thing to hire them, but if you don't listen to them, then yeah, you probably
can't afford it and you are throwing your money away.

470
00:34:38,672 --> 00:34:47,878
but if you listen to them, you see the results that, that you have, which is growth,
scaling, sustainability.

471
00:34:47,878 --> 00:34:49,081
All of those.

472
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:51,131
Yeah.

473
00:34:52,381 --> 00:34:53,608
It's sustainability.

474
00:34:53,608 --> 00:34:55,594
You can grow, but are you sustainable?

475
00:34:55,594 --> 00:34:56,894
Yes, exactly.

476
00:34:56,894 --> 00:35:02,354
And I think that's why most, I mean, there are some business owners who obviously have an
exit planned.

477
00:35:02,434 --> 00:35:11,334
But if you want to create that impact over a long period of time, then why, why does it
need to be five years versus 10 years to your point, right?

478
00:35:11,334 --> 00:35:14,534
Why do you need a hundred franchises in five years?

479
00:35:14,534 --> 00:35:21,858
Why not do it in 10 years and double, triple, quadruple your impact because you're doing
it sustainably.

480
00:35:23,553 --> 00:35:24,393
Yep.

481
00:35:24,934 --> 00:35:28,797
You can droople your impact on the people that you serve first.

482
00:35:28,808 --> 00:35:29,738
Yes.

483
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:31,841
brilliant.

484
00:35:31,841 --> 00:35:32,731
Brilliant, brilliant.

485
00:35:32,731 --> 00:35:38,758
Well, Keith, I want to thank you so much for sharing your insight and your journey and
your big why.

486
00:35:38,758 --> 00:35:50,619
I think there are so many nuggets in today's episode and I just really want to thank you
again for your time, sharing your experience and you know, folks listening would like to

487
00:35:50,619 --> 00:35:52,851
get in touch with you, learn more about you.

488
00:35:52,851 --> 00:35:54,222
Where can they do that?

489
00:35:56,645 --> 00:36:07,849
LinkedIn or handypro.com or my email is kpaul at handypro.com anywhere or you can Kendra
she'll forward you to me so

490
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:09,502
yeah, exactly.

491
00:36:09,502 --> 00:36:10,444
Beautiful.

492
00:36:10,444 --> 00:36:12,367
Thank you so, so much, Keith.

493
00:36:12,367 --> 00:36:18,117
Really excited to share this out to the world and see how much more impact you can
continue to make.

494
00:36:19,447 --> 00:36:25,563
Kendra, thank you, and I appreciate you not only calling us, but having such a great
interview.

495
00:36:25,563 --> 00:36:30,872
Interviews, again, asking the right questions, and I can't even believe it's been 45
minutes.

496
00:36:30,872 --> 00:36:32,039
It's just been having a blast.

497
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:33,361
So that just kudos to you.

498
00:36:33,361 --> 00:36:39,997
Keep up the good work, and keep sharing best practices for those who, especially if
they're younger, getting into this.

499
00:36:39,997 --> 00:36:43,500
Hopefully we can help them avoid a lot of the mistakes that we made.

500
00:36:43,617 --> 00:36:44,838
That's the intention.

501
00:36:44,838 --> 00:36:45,549
So thank you.

502
00:36:45,549 --> 00:36:47,471
I appreciate those kind words.

503
00:36:48,212 --> 00:36:56,683
It's nice to know that, you know, we're having an impact too, just through a conversation
and yeah, we could spend a lot more time.

504
00:36:56,683 --> 00:36:58,904
If we could flash this out for a lot longer.

505
00:37:01,108 --> 00:37:02,089
All right.

506
00:37:02,089 --> 00:37:03,310
Thank you.

507
00:37:04,290 --> 00:37:05,511
Been a pleasure.