Hi everyone this is Kali Bateman for Mixing
Light and today I am thrilled to be talking
with esteemed colourist and colleague of mine
Daniel Stonehouse who has been colouring in
Melbourne since I started and probably well before
and we were always very aware of one another
as we were coming up and is now the founder and
owner and colourist at Crayon which is a studio
that is also representing
myself so full disclosure everyone.
Nepotism alert.
Yes that's right so I'm very thrilled to be on the
books at Crayon now and Dan and his team have
made me feel extremely welcome and have looked
after myself and my clients very very beautifully
through the transition so I've been a Crayon
colourist now for coming up to six months which
is hard to believe how quickly
that's gone. Six months already.
Amazing.
Yes it must be coming up soon and so yeah just
absolutely thrilled to have Dan here today to talk
to me about running a boutique colour shop that not
only has a physical presence in Melbourne but
also is remotely representing a growing roster of
colourists including myself and doing a beautiful
job at it so welcome welcome Dan
and thank you so much for joining me.
So I'd love to know you know we came up together I
remember always seeing your work as a junior
and an aspiring colourist and thinking wow this
guy's got it and how does he do that and I wish
I could do that and always
being slightly jealous as one is.
Well look vice versa I can I can remember a
particular music video that you did I think
for Courtney Barnett I'm
remembering probably. Oh yes.
The very gritty dark one in the caravan and I was
like why didn't I get to you know I do all this
bloody happy shiny shiny colourful stuff you know
and you get the like the dark bleak you know
depressing one why didn't I get to do that you know
so yeah I think I think we're of a similar
generation and a similar set of experiences is
coming up. I always date my start to about when
Apple Color came out I'm sure a lot of people in
my generation do too I always think of that as
sort of being around the time the Canon 5D came out
as well and those two things are quite linked
you know that there were all of a sudden a lot lots
of new DPs and directors and also
lots of new colourists and we all sort of work
together in the early days doing our best with
Canon 5D footage you know. That's right yes it was
the beginning of the democratization
of colour grading I suppose because you know all of
a sudden there were new emerging cinematographers
who had this sort of easier entry into the market
didn't have to buy a hundred thousand
dollar camera to start shooting and so they were
able to work with people who weren't as established
like yourself and myself giving us the the very
important 10 000 hours that we needed to become
good at this crazy personal job. Absolutely and the
fun task of just seeing what we could do with
fairly low bit rates h264 footage. Absolutely and
I remember those days the sort of the
digital revolution was happening and there was a
new digital format every sort of other day and I
remember being given hard drives and told hey we
need this in the system tomorrow and you'd be
like oh well there's no programs that I know of
that can read this file format and it doesn't seem
to have time code or real names so it was a period
of great trial and error and stick to itness
I seem to recall. Absolutely if I scroll all the way
back you know I'm one of these people that has
my iPhone photos going back you know pretty much to
the dawn of time but there's a a particular
image of a one of the old Apple cinema displays
with an early version of Red Cine on it holding
up an iPhone you know a very early iPhone for
some banking ad so you know we were trying to
work out how to use red footage and how to
transcode it and how to get the best out of it
you know before you got it into the grading system
because you couldn't work with the
raws and yeah it was it was a time of a lot of
experimentation a lot of learning for everyone.
Yes and I think it produced people who are good
problem solvers didn't they? Well you had to. And
you were willing to sit down and just nut it out
but just for the just the listener or the the
audience out there so to give a bit of context
would you say this is roughly sort of 15 years ago
that we're talking about? I mean I've been look
I've been saying 15 years for probably longer than
15 years I should really I should really get my my
dates and time straight look I think
I think Apple Color came out around 2007 which
was a big deal because Apple just bought
the whole company and chucked it in with the Final
Cut suite and so all of a sudden you had
you know like a commonly available program that
could do secondaries that wasn't just
the old three-way color corrector in Final Cut
or whatever After Effects like to think of as
color tools you know so all of a sudden there was
this readily available program that was enough
like you know the big things that the the
posthouses were spending millions of dollars on
where you could actually really sink your teeth
into and learn the craft I mean I'd done so
I had worked in an animation studio I was working
in an animation studio at that time that was sort
of had evolved from being very scrappy and doing
some production and doing some animation and
basically winning jobs and saying yes to things and
figuring out how to do them on the fly so I
definitely graded footage before without really
knowing what it was you know I'd taken stuff and
made it look better but then all of a sudden there
was this sort of context to do it in
and it just really felt like a great fit you know
like the the time scale the collaborative
nature of it the fact that there wasn't really a
right answer but there was there were answers
that were righter than others yeah I just sort
of did it and did more and more of it and fell in
love with it and realized that there was like a
like a craft depth there that I could
quite happily explore for a really long time
yeah so that was kind of my start and
you know working in an animation company it sort of
started to not make sense to say like oh hey
we're so and so and we represent animation
directors and then there's Dan who does all
this other stuff as well so my employer and I
decided to start a sort of a sister company
that I'd be a partner in and around that time as
well you know my my a building was bought
that we're still in to this day and that was a
big part of sort of the the birth of crayon as a
company we were big fans of BEAN in Sydney,
Ben Eagleton and Andrew's company they were very
forward thinking they were doing things like yes
sending hard drives to clients you know like they'd
send a big a big raid over so you know they could
you could get the footage on something fast enough
to work with and and they just had this very sort
of modern and nimble kind of
brand and reputation and that was a big
inspiration for us you know in some ways
we were trying to do a version of that in
Melbourne but with a colorist who is a little
bit less experienced which was stressful you know
for me but stuck at it yeah BEAN, BEAN is a
company in Sydney Ben Eagleton and Andrew Clarkson
and if anyone listened to my interview
with Fergus Rotherham those are his mentors
and if if you're Australian or potentially
anyone would know Ben Eagleton's work I'm not
sure if BEAN was before or after Ben's stint in LA
do you know Dan? I can't remember the exact
timeline of it but you know they've had a
beautiful reputation they did and still do to this
day even though I don't believe BEAN is is still
the same scenario that it was Ben is freelance
now and I believe he has just BE
so I may edit this out because I should get my
facts straight before I open my mouth
in any case they're they're colorists who have
had a huge impact on the Australian industry
and also in terms of philosophy to be role models I
think that generation of colorists were role
models for mine and Dan's generation coming up
they were people that we could say well look here
are people who are really doing it to a world-class
standard and you know there's absolutely nothing
that can go wrong if we aim for that and I think to
us especially they represented a new way of
doing things you know I never worked in a post
house I sometimes that's good good distinction
because being... being a boutique.
Yes. Exactly right I sometimes like to joke I've never
been in a grade before because I haven't you know I
I was definitely of the generation that was sort
of completely self-taught and you know I could I
can remember you know in the early days the other
colorists I encountered you know like on on one
hand I could count them and some of them wanted to
talk shop and some of them didn't some of them very
much didn't you know so that was also
that sort of another thing that shaped my thinking
is the difficulty of sort of doing it on your
own and the solitary nature of our work
sometimes and how to sort of encourage solidarity
and sharing and sort of escape the competition
mentality you know that that crafts people can
sometimes have with with others in their field you
know yeah so I'm not sure if I answered
the questionnaire with no no no all kinds of
tangents no I think there's a few really
interesting points there because you know we
touched on it earlier that you and I had a bit
of healthy jealousy of one another and I think
that's part of being in the same generation as your
colleagues and you know especially in Australia
sometimes you can feel like there's quite a small
pie and there's not enough slices to go around and
you know there's always people with opinions
about whether or not you can or should be pursuing
this very niche career and some people aren't
particularly shy about letting you know whether or
not they think you have a place in the industry
and I don't know whether or not that goes away or
whether or not you just develop a tolerance
and a thicker skin to it as you mature but it is
something that can shape you as a colorist and
you know whether or not you get one of those
coveted assisting roles in the big facility or not
there is a pathway there and not everybody needs
to do the same color job or have the same
approach because if we all did you know every
client would also have to be
the same and they're not so
you know there was definitely a niche for crayon in
the market that you found and modeling it on
BEAN like what a great company to say hey they're
doing it let's do it too so you know you really
did go straight into that boutique market and dealt
with the challenges that anybody has
coming up which is you know how do I find somebody
who's willing to teach me and how do I teach
myself and where do I find those resources so you
know did did that what kind of effect did that have
on your sort of approach to grading or your
philosophy around grading
did that shape that at all
I think going back even further you know I've
always been the kind of person where if I if I'm
interested in a subject it just becomes all
consing and I will follow my taste I'll
explore it and you know I'll usually there's
there's a famous Ira Glass lengthy quote about
creativity essentially being that the problem is
when you start your taste exceeds your ability
and maybe you actually never catch up you know in
some ways but you you can get a bit closer
after after your 10 000 hours you're you you might
admit to yourself that some of your work is is
actually okay but yeah I guess in high school I
got really into photography I was a I was a
terrible skateboarder so I got into photography so
I would have something to do while everyone
else was doing more impressive tricks than me
but then that led into working as a photographer
shooting local bands working for street press
and things like that funnily enough to the point
where I felt quite jaded by about sort of 16 or 17
like I'd been I'd been spat out by the industry
and you know 50 bucks for film and and a and a name
on the door wasn't quite enough anymore
and then I sort of followed my interest into
graphic design similar kind of thing just sort
of got quite obsessed with it self-taught
thought I was going to study design out of
uni but then maybe didn't realize that those
courses were actually quite hard to get into
there's a little bit cocky about my
chances but my point being that
when color came along you know I'd sort of been in
this I don't know like this long period of
of finding new loves new crafts
and teaching myself about them so
in that era resources were very scarce I was
saying to someone the other day like there
was that one blue book you know the art of color
correction did you ever see that it was about the
only thing the Alex Van Herkman one yeah a classic
of the genre you know every very small genre
yeah but I mean that was that was like I don't know
that was like discovering treasure or something
because you know yeah there'd be the odd tutorial
or the odd website and you'd pick up bits and
pieces and you'd read manuals for software like
like like they were novels you know hoping
someone had slipped in a little bit about you know
the actual work we were doing not not just
the technical but the process the why's that
that information was extremely hard to find
but there were bits and pieces here and there you
know so I guess I just sort of took that
kind of quiet desperation and and kind of
hunger for education and I just
move it up absolutely everything I could you know
and would piece bits and pieces together and
and just try and make it work you know you'd
you'd you'd get a little
hint about a technique like
and and you'd implement it you'd you'd go what
the hell is cineon space oh okay it's how film
scanned why is it so soft oh you've got to use an
s-curve you know you just piece all these things
together and and put it together but yeah it
was it was pretty slim pickings in terms of
resources for learning wasn't it I seem to
remember it kind of it was fx phd that blew the
lid off it for me yeah because I'd always had
this interest and I'd been looking for
ever since I was at uni and got to go and get my
films graded at what was it called that place
in south melbourne where Vincent worked no no it
wasn't that's Complete Post Complete Post
of course yeah Dean McClellan and Vincent Taylor
were working oh lovely other amazing
colors working there I know and I remember Dee
graded this really terrible zombie movie that
I was short film that I made and she made it look
so much better it was shot on mini dv and she made
it look like it was something and I remember
thinking my goodness how do you do that but like
you you know I was sort of out there on my own
going where do you find the information and I
think now with you know websites like Mixing Light
and the availability of being able to reach out
to actually ask colorists internationally on you
know panels and social media and just just how
sort of global it's become and how accessible it's
become it really was a different world when we
started out so I'm just having like a secret
society you know it really was a secret society
and you were sort of knocking at the door like
thinking you're wearing the coste the right way
and then being scared that you weren't you know and
that you weren't gonna get laid in with the
stone cutter's handshake but I mean that it's still
something I sort of tell people these days
especially younger people who who want to break
into the industry who want to be a colorist like
the trick is really just not stopping you know like
there's no there's no other way to do it
apart from that like you are a colorist until you
tell yourself you're not and inevitably
opportunities will come your way with persistence
but I mean sometimes it takes a lot of
persistence you know the you know it is certainly a
bigger field than it was and you know the sort
of customers the consers the clients like have a
much better understanding of what it is we do
and why it's necessary but you know we're still
specialists you know so really
anything you can do
I couldn't agree more and not
listening to the people who tell you that you
shouldn't or can't and you know getting back up
when you fall down is all a major part of it
I'd say maybe 80 percent of it but I mean just
thinking about the difference between that and now
you certainly wouldn't have had a client pull out
resolve on their laptop or ipad and you know
grade a couple of shots in your session and say hey
can you make it look like that you know
it was a lot it was a lot more secret yes and
the systems were extremely expensive and yeah
fortunately apple color came out and and gave you
that in and I mean it's it's all about
the color not the tool right so if you're an
amazing colorist it doesn't matter what you're in
it doesn't matter what tools you're using you're
going to get results that pleasing whether
it's in apple color or resolve or well yeah I mean
you know you're grading with your brain and
your eyes ultimately you know sometimes
dismissively when mostly when I'm trying to
encourage editors to use DaVinci Resolve I jokingly
say it's well it's just rectangles in a row right
like does it you know like does it really matter
what program you're using but color is kind of
the same I mean look there are niceties to
different systems there's performance benefits
there's some tools that are just brilliant and
wonderful and open and you know other things
where you find yourself little dead ends and
cul-de-sacs but ultimately it's your eyes and
your hands you know and your brain that's the
those are the tools you're color grading with
and you can adapt you know like no one likes that
period of time where you're like oh I know
there's a button for this somewhere I just don't
know where it is that's never a fun week but that's
not really the big problem of our work right the
big problem is like why like why are we doing what
we're doing how are we corralling all this sort
of technical knowledge and this instinct and
you know perception and taste how are we corralling
that all into sort of getting from one end of a
project to the other you know successfully with
with happy happy clients who feel listened to and
like they've participated that's really the the
tough part probably tougher than the more
obvious part of technical knowledge you know but
yeah you just have to keep on doing it
and then eventually you hit a point where you're
like oh this is less stressful than it used to be
not always every now and then you know you have a
you have a day or you have a week
or a project but mostly it does get better
but yeah these are just yeah so tell me about
like how you transitioned from colorist and partner
in a sister company to an animation studio
and then had this current iteration where crayon is
yours and you're an artist but you're also the
business owner which I have to say from the side
of somebody who's represented by a company
it does have a different feeling to to being
represented in a business where the kind of
top-down ownership is an artist it feels a lot
different to the top-down ownership being more
producer or production based you know not to say
that one's better than the other but it
certainly has a different flavor and it is quite
lovely to know that it's the artist concerns
that are the most I don't even know what the
right word is but they're they're top of mind
really artist concerns yeah exactly how did you how
did you find crayon's current iteration
yeah it was an evolution I mean there's there's
some stuff that's just sort of in our DNA
so you know crayon was originally founded by a
director who became an entrepreneur
you know who and and a colorist and I think the
idea was to to create a space that clients
actually wanted to be in you know to you know
you'd hear like a lot about people going to the
big the big main post houses and essentially not
having a good time you know and we wanted to
be sort of new school and nimble and you know
leverage that our experience you know like our
background and experience was broader than just
color you know that that I we both had design
backgrounds essentially and and we sort of use that
sort of foundational way of creative thinking
we could we could sort of translate that into
different jobs but at the same time it's like
someone needs you to type set a title you can bust
out the old design skills you don't have to go
okay well you need half a day in smoke and that's
going to cost you and your producer needs to talk
to my producer like we could just be a bit more
nimble and fluid and and kind of client friendly
so that's in our DNA
and then sort of the evolution of the business
my business partner ended up heading overseas
and starting an absolutely
huge successful tech company
which definitely took up most of their time so
there was a period of time where crayon was
sort of just it was what it was it was what it was
designed and it was continuing in that direction
you know there were some times where we we
dabbled with representing editors for a while
and sort of being end to end but we also always
sort of came back to this idea of being
you know what we'd like to call these those color
focused right that we it's not only color but it's
it's it's it's a business that's sort of focused on
that part of the process and the things that
surround it and you know after a few years of
me being the only colorist here I started to
think really heavily about new models for how
crayon could grow you know we were in a world
where almost every colorist in Australia was
freelance you know there were there was a time
where I'd joke and say like I'm the only colorist
with the job left you know...
It is true...
yeah the industry had sort of you know
we'd we'd left that big post house era
and we were in a new world where everyone was
freelance and so everyone was sort of on their
own you know and already kind of at times lonely
or at least you know individual job
sort of I felt like we were getting broken down
into smaller and smaller pieces you know and
I think there was some good stuff you know some
that was lost in the move away from the big
post houses yes you know like a certain amount
of like just pressure caused by money
you know caused by costs caused by the costs
of the rooms you know the kind of rock star
mentality you know I think I think it's good that
we've sort of moved on from there but you know
we sort of threw out a whole bunch of stuff at the
same time like we threw out institutional
knowledge we threw out you know the glue in between
all the stages you know you you see
it now sometimes where where like in ad agency for
example we'll sort of throw a an editor a
colorist and a you know an online or a flame or
a smoke artist together and it's sort of like
that's not a post pipeline for a job like I mean
we're used to it we can talk to each other and we
can make it work but it's not the same as you know
the glue that holds it all together and I
mean I think another thing was I'd always had the
benefit of having a producer my entire career I
had some form of producer in the early days when
I was dabbling we had people who you know
like I never had to send an invoice in in my
entire career which was a great luxury and yeah
as the industry sort of got it gotten broken down
into into freelancers I was like how do how do
people do it you know like how do you...
a stressful full day in a commercial
and at lunch time the job from yesterday is
hassling you about a new shot and someone wants
to shift the booking you know from tomorrow to
the day after meaning you have to shift another
book like I just didn't understand how it was
possible and certainly it is possible because
people do it but I don't know I just yeah it's
also not a skill set like personally that
producing skill set it can seem easy when it's
being done well and you know I I came up in
facilities and I was used to producers who are very
very good at their jobs managing everything
and so you would think well what's the big deal it
can't be that hard and then of course when I
had to start doing it for myself I was like oh my
god this is really difficult it's a full job with
a full set of skills that aren't in my wheelhouse
and I've never learned and I just don't even
know where to start like put me in front of an
excel spreadsheet and I'll you know I'm a bit
better now but at the beginning I was like I felt
like a newborn baby like what do I even do here
where do I click so you know and those are the
sort of things that you don't think about but
recording you know and this is like a little bit in
the weeds but when I was doing my own producing
I would always do the bare minim that was
required to secure a booking and then invoice
at the at the end but I didn't take down job names
properly or the names of people who were
in the suite so when it came time to be like oh wow
I did this thing and now it's been released
how do I go about promoting that on social media
well I don't even remember the director's name
so now I've got another big job of trying to work
out and backtrack and retrace my steps and you know
just those systems right that producers just think
to do in the moment I learned a lot doing it
myself but I never got good at it ever well it's
impossible it's impossible to be good at it as a
as a busy colourist right because it is a
specialist skill and there's just not enough
time in the day to do it effectively and as you
know our lives change and we get older and we
have kids and all the rest of it I mean I just I
just sort of saw things being made very
difficult for people in our role and I guess I
wanted to think about like how could
how could I add people to the
roster how could I grow the business
but also how could I make that a fair exchange you
know like what can I offer colourists
what can we do together that is
is impossible on our own you know so
I was very very lucky in that I met an incredibly
talented young colourist Abe Wynen
and I had a theory about a model
a business model that was sort of
you know still allowed the colourist to be you know
like their success to be connected to money
to you know to to not be this kind of old model
of like here's a salary and then we're
gonna work you to the bone to make that money back
you know so yeah an experimental model
Abe came on board and this was sort of around
the same time where I took over the business
fully and always going great and then of course
COVID happened about a bit less than a
year after I'd fully taken over so that was fine I
mean look especially in Melbourne where we were
I don't know I think I think in terms of like
lockdowns and you know stopping of work and all
that kind of stuff I think we were one of one of
the more impacted places around the world like
COVID so that was obviously a bit of a setback
you know when you know when you're not allowed
to leave the house you're obviously not shooting tv
commercials but you know we got through that
and we're even able to grow a little bit
adding producers working with two colourists
and just sort of like push things forward from
there the model seemed to be working
you know Abe was Abe's career was
was just absolutely taking off
you know I would like to talk about Abe a little
bit just as a sideline because he's
somebody whose work I really admire and he seems
like a really nice person absolutely which I think
goes a long way and he's actually somebody I'd
really like to speak to yes he'd be a great
person to speak to so he's over in Canada now
he's a senior colourist which to be honest
personally is a term I've never liked because it's
a to me it's you know implies a a wise old old
man or woman you know like a Gandalf type you
know like you're shaking your fist at clouds maybe
but I mean hey if you're going to be a senior
colourist I'm pretty sure before he's 30 that's
that's a pretty good that's probably a pretty good
title I know unbelievable I can only think
of one other person who's pulled that off and she
also was a Toronto based colourist ex-melbourne
Toronto based colourist yes exactly yes yes it's
absolutely kicking goals for anyone who
might know the secret code but Abe has recently
taken on the heading up the
Colour Society International Canada chapter yes
yeah with Eric with Eric Whipp another
another guy good guy to be hanging out with yes
so congratulations to both of them yes
and you know congrats Abe if you're listening yeah
for just yeah kicking so many goals I'm really
following with interest all the cool stuff yeah and
incredibly incredibly talented and dedicated
colourist and you know I'm super proud to you
know to have like kind of to work to work
alongside him and to share ideas and to learn from
each other and yeah super proud of everything
he's doing now but yeah so he that was sort of
an experiment that worked you know I had
I had a model that I could see a future in
and then the next challenge was thinking about
I guess I guess one of the problems of our
industry has always been that it's it's it's
traditionally local right like and that goes back
to the big post house days where
you know you'd spend a million or two fitting out
of room and people would come to it local
people necessarily would come to it but you know
in you know in a modern world it's interesting
to think about like how you break down those
geographic boundaries of our work right it's
happening organically COVID the COVID time sort of
advanced it but we don't have to be limited
by our location anymore either where the
colorist is based where the clients are based
and and as we're learning where the production
team is based versus where the colorist is based
so I spent a lot of time thinking and
planning and building infrastructure that would
again you know like I always wanted this to be
almost a collective right like to
a way of pooling resources pooling connections
pooling influences to sort of be able to
the colors to be able to sort of achieves more than
they could on their own yeah so spent a
lot of time planning workflows and you know kind
of boring database infrastructure and things
like that just just to allow that to work and
it's been you know really thrilling for me to
to see it working that's one of those things
that not every colorist is interested in and it's
something that as a freelancer because I'm tech
savvy to the extent that I need to be but I'm
certainly not excited about SQL databases and you
know it's it's just not a itch that I feel I need
to scratch and I think that's one of the things
that was lost in the the move to freelance was that
IT department that the big facility had that
that could go and glue everything back together
again so you know that is of a huge benefit to
the the less it's not even about technical
aptitude because everyone can do it but it's how
interested you are in it I suppose yeah and if
you're not interested in it then you know to have a
broader team and I know that I certainly
utilize this on our slack channels you know like
hey I want to do this but I have absolutely no
idea how can somebody who's interested in this
stuff give me their
opinion and when you're treating
other colorists as competition instead of
colleagues you don't get that cross pollination
so it is very nice to to shift that thinking a
little bit a pivotal thing for me about that
that type of thinking I think you've talked
about it with a few other people from
Melbourne we have a really good culture here the
colorists we get together once or twice a year
we we drink a little bit too much we have some
nerdy conversations you know we share some
mutual grievances maybe and try not to turn into a
winch fest but yeah we we get together and
we talk and we we we know each other's spaces we
know each other's names and just through that
it really helped me realize that we're not as in
competition with each other as we might think
you know like a lot of it is just sort of the
psychology of a craftsperson right of
it's almost like the dark side of of appreciating
the craft is that you know you can get jealous
or you can you can see other people getting
opportunities you want and and wonder why it
isn't you or you can see a beautiful piece of work
and you could doubt that you'd ever be able
to do it and just through you know having that
connection to fellow practitioners
that yeah that was like a big seed in my thinking
because it made me realize that you know
especially in the short-form world right we have we
all have these like intense hard won
forged in the fire relationships with clients you
know we're we're all people's go-to's you know
like we have we all have clients who trust us
implicitly and you know absolutely
are at the top of their list for every job you know
because we have the power to stuff up
a project you know like we actually have like a
really a really intense responsibility
sometimes when you think about the labor and the
creativity that's gone into any project that
we get to touch you know just the person hours
and the care and the sacrifice and
you know we're the ones who are responsible for
making sure all of that turns up on screen right
and and when we're when we're doing well we
actually have the power to sort of amplify that
but at least at least we have the responsibilities
when sure it turns up on screen so I think
I think we all have these like really intense
trust relationships with our clients and
that when you get a group of colorists together who
are like-minded you know that those
that influence those relationships they kind of
amplify rather than just stacking up on top of
each other yeah and like a lot of that came from
yeah just just those Melbourne meetups with
colorists of yeah of of realizing that we're you
know that there's this kind of solidarity there
that's really nice and it's not something that
we you know for people listening overseas who have
an experience of of still having those
post-facilities or those grading
shops that have a stable of maybe you know 10 local
but possibly 50 international colorists
who are at your fingertips it's it's not
something that in Australia we have anymore
and I think there are pros and cons of course to
both but it is nice that you know even if you're
not in a facility or if you're working as a
freelancer or maybe you're emerging in your career
you can try to think of of people who are doing
the jobs that you want to be doing
not as somebody who's blocking your ability to
succeed but as somebody who can help you get there
a bit of healthy jealousy a bit of healthy
competition never hurt anybody because it
helps you raise yourself but there's a difference I
think and this is getting a bit philosophical
between going oh gee I wish I did that cool thing
hey well done mate like good job I loved it
there's a difference between that and the moments
that I think we've all had where we're looking at
our work and we're going my god I just have no
place here you know like there's this is terrible
and how could anybody you know possibly want me on
their job and it's and it can be very difficult
to pull yourself out of that spiral when you're
soloed you know when you're just on your own
and and you've got no one who you can say hey
like sos I feel like shit you know I need I need
to remember why we're all doing this crazy thing
that we do yeah absolutely so mental health shout
out there but it's just better together I think
yeah yeah and and I think I think it's it's it's
not just colorist I think it's quite common across
like most creative industries or practices
there's certain core things like you lack
perspective on your own work or you have too
much perspective on your own work you know you're
just dealing with a different set of information
to everyone else the comparisons are always tricky
you know insecurity can manifest as jealousy
or yeah or resentment you know very early
on I identified like I have this I have
this emotional arc about my work which which
actually doesn't really happen anymore but in
the early days you know it was very predictable
about four o'clock I'd be thinking okay maybe I
can talk to my producer maybe I can start again
tomorrow we'll just throw the whole thing out you
know like like hard work about that time that's how
I would feel and then you know the next day
I'd feel like oh I barely got away with that and
then down the track I'd feel like oh maybe I did
get away with it and then three months later I'd
look at it and I'd go oh that's pretty how did I
how did I do that I don't know how I did that you
know and so you just identify your emotional arc
and that can help you just put it out of your minds
you know because it all goes back to just
keeping on doing the work you know and that idea
of getting away with it I've heard that from
other colorists as well that I've assisted and yeah
I'm not I'm not sure how many people have
that feeling of like they've just robbed a building
as they leave this session but you know
we've definitely all been there we are lucky in in
our work that there is a tradition of limited
time I think right yes I think that is actually a
blessing although sometimes it can not be but
you know the fact that it's like do what you can
given the circstances given the you know the
individual problems and the personalities of every
job do what you can make it look better
and get it done by five o'clock you know or six
o'clock or you know maybe seven sometimes but you
you know it sort of I also freeze you from like
having to do a perfect job you know like you
you've got these boundaries and you've got to
you've got to do it within those boundaries and
yeah I think it's actually a blessing good
pressure yeah as well like I know that I'm
certainly all revved up and ready to go when I know
that I've got a four-hour session and I've
got more to do than I can possibly do in four hours
and then somehow somehow you called off
you know caffeinated and I am feeling good I am
like we're gonna smash this and if you don't think
too hard sometimes you get out of your own way when
you just have to get it done
sometimes you go you know I certainly know that
when I've got all the time in the world
I'm there doing what Dave McClellan
calls fiddling yourself into a corner
which you know I think is it's really stuck with me
yes you just get out get out of your own
way and let your hands do it like you're an amazing
surgeon who doesn't even have to think
anymore just put your playlist on and go there's a
there's a lot that's been written you know
about the flow state and I think we get we get
to spend a lot of time in that state right like
I love it possibly I mean I don't know I don't
know what it feels like to be a painter or to be a
sculptor you know but I imagine we get a little
taste of what that's like you know it has our
jobs you know and we're getting paid for it it's
pretty incredible like we're quite lucky
do you have any just speaking of flow states do
you have any sort of hacks or techniques that
you use to get into that flow state because I know
that when you've got a certain time
restriction on your session you can't muck around
for three hours and then get into it you have to
get into it I actually actually think that the time
restriction is the the best one I used to be
a classic procrastinator a creative procrastinator
you know all of my school projects were the
night before and you know I was somehow able to
pull it off and do okay but I think color taught
me how not to be a procrastinator because for
one it's very hard to procrastinate when someone
is literally in the room with you you know like
there's not a lot of like doing your usual lap of
the websites you like to check out you can get away
with when when people are in the room and
expecting results yeah so I think the the time
limits actually really help music is is a great
tool and to be honest it's probably one of the best
things about our jobs right like I always
feel for editors you know we we actually get to
listen to music while we work which is incredibly
lucky and we also get to inflict our taste in
music on other people which is always fun too so
certainly there's sort of different types of
music I go to at different stages of the process
different times of day you know it could get
pretty intense towards the end that little last
push before getting render what's intense what's
intense for you oh I mean it can get pretty intense
like like like very very aggressive rapping but I
have to just make sure everyone in the room
knows I'm not necessarily agreeing with the
sentiments you know like Kanye said it not you
well I can't Kanye might be a little bit of a
bridge too far these days but yeah or like
some fairly intense electronic music yeah you
know the start of the day can be kind of
instrental or piano or but yeah I think that's
always fun too the the room management
side of the work can also help you get into that
flow state of the actual you know work on the tools
I would encourage you to make a crayon Spotify
playlist yeah or crayon mixtape maybe you know
yes I would love to hear what everyone else is
listening to in their session oh look you could
always make a film and I'll grade it for you that's
that's that's an option I want to put
that out there to anyone listening as well if you
have a really great grading playlist I would
love to know all about it because I'm the same as
Jan and I I turn to music for that flow state and
I'm always looking for something new because I
often will reuse the same playlists just to get
into the flow state there's one called Unwind 80s
that I think I must listen to like daily for maybe
five years now yeah that is just way too too many
80s songs so I'm looking for something new everyone
I mean these days I have like an Apple TV on my
client monitor and I will quite often
launch into you know a history of the best music
videos of the past 20 years or you know if anyone
shows a vague interest in skateboarding it's like
I'll check out these skate videos but
you know I think I think it's they're all like your
clients should should enjoy coming to see you
right like they should have a good time and you
should gel with people and you should be able to
talk about the references they're talking about and
you know photographers filmmakers TV
shows music culture art you know my favorite
references are when people talk about
painters or sculptors or you know because
it's it's it's not specific and it is at the same
time you know so I think yeah you've got to be a
good host as a colorist as well that's really
important and you've got a painting and
photography as references is I love them because
they're such distilled ideas you know when you're
given like a feature film as a reference
and it's like well which shot you know which scene
yeah how specific are you being you know
like are we whereas if you get like a painting you
can be like well I can see exactly what you're
after here and we can look at you know you can go
from there you can go outwards instead of going
from something large back in yeah yeah whenever I'm
given stills like TVs or TV shows or
movies stills I'm always trying to extract ideas
from them I always prefer it where someone
will give me you know a folder full of images or a
pdf you know with with a couple of things
tiled and then you can kind of navigate them as a
story and take ideas from them because I mean
this this this circles around nicely to a very
antique look right like I don't like the idea of
looks in grading you know interesting I think the
look is a result rather than
an element of the process you know if that makes
sense you know it's almost like
if you're sort of I don't know I feel like for my
work if I'm if I'm thinking about a look
it's like I've got hold of the wrong side of the
equation or something you know to me
to me it's like a look is sort of like it's your
taste applied to the project in an appropriate
way if that makes sense and you know you can
certainly have elements or ingredients you know
you can you can talk about contrast and you can
talk about saturation and density of colors and
you can talk about techniques and approaches you
know but the way like my favorite my favorite
projects are the ones where my work disappears into
the project does that make sense where
no one's looking at and saying like what a
beautiful grade I mean maybe they might say that
to me if I'm lucky but you know just being
polite but you know like like good color grading
really looks like great cinematography you know it
looks like great filmmaking you know so I
think I'm always very wary of style you know sort
of applied on top of things right I mean yeah
I would love to explore this a little bit further
because I think that it's like a very
oh a philosophy based kind of thing but also like
super tangible to what we do
and it's not something that I've really been
able to have a huge conversation about before
often I will grade under a look so I'll have
everything grouped and that group is my look
and I even call it look and I'll have you know I'll
look at the references and I'll use a few tools
to generate like a contrast level across the board
and maybe like a certain treatment of
a primary like okay for this look we've got a deep
filmy kind of ectochromey red but only in the
reds because it's digital and we can do whatever
the hell we want so you know then maybe I've got
instead of that kind of like yellow green that you
would get an ectochrome maybe I keep like a nice
fresh green that I'll use a few nodes or a layer
or two to give us that look and then
underneath that then I'll do the grade basically
yeah yeah and I'll balance and I'll match and I
might be pushing it in the wrong direction to make
it look right under the look if you were to
take the look off you'd probably go oh my goodness
what on earth is that terrible looking thing
but because it's all graded under the look it's all
integrated look I'm doing the same I'm doing
the same thing I'm just probably using different
terminology but so the way I think about it is
gosh how do I think about it I okay so like as a as
a as a baby colorist I think you know your
first aha moment right is when you realize that to
get a bunch of stuff to look the same you need
to do different things to all of it right like we
all start out we all start out with looks right
you know applying a transformation across a
scene or across an entire project
and then you know and then as a baby colorist you
then discover like oh okay I've got to go on I've
got to go in and balance it all so it makes sense
you know and then you start to realize like oh
okay this scene needs its own treatment it's it's
underwater it's it's a cool moonlit night it's
you know and before you know it you're sort of
doing all kinds of different things to all kinds
of different shots or scenes or elements you
know to get them towards this ideal thing
that is the result you know so
I always try and work from sort of
the decisions of of broadest impact down to the
small details but I'm also not scared of small
details like I spend a lot of time on small details
so you know like when I'm starting
a project probably the first decision I'll make
it's akin to a look but it's sort of I think of
it as the transform like how are we getting from
what was shot to a result that has the
characteristics we want in broad strokes you know
and then I'll usually start trying that out on
different shots refining things again broad
strokes and then you know then you go through
and you start balancing things underneath that
but a lot of a lot of what I do I think is very
photographic and subtractive right is the word I've
been thinking of a lot about lately I mean
there's you know like the apocryphal story of of
like you know how do you make a sculpture of
someone will you take away all the bits that aren't
the sculpture but I do think about that
in my work a lot like I am not scared to jump
straight in and put a tiny window in the corner
of frame to move something that is very distracting
and very much dragging the attention
in the wrong place you know
you know I try these days instead of bringing
things up you know to be taking things away if
that makes sense and then the other thing I'm
always thinking about like I think color grading
is this dance between you know especially in this
modern era where you know we understand
color management and we understand color spaces and
you know a lot of that kind of color
science fundamentals you know it's a dance between
you know people in a room under light over time
you know and you use that to
you use that to help things match essentially you
know you you I mean C-mode is one of my favorite
buttons in Resolve which is where it sorts the
timeline you know into you know the you
know the project order into the shooting order
essentially and you can use that to kind of
oh okay that's why that shot doesn't match it was
actually shot at the end of the scene where the
life had changed but then at the same time you've
got to be comfortable throwing out that
relationship completely when it makes sense you
know for the story for the projects and
especially for the relationship like I think I
think fundamentally what we're doing
is is about relationships between shots you know
like I think I think if you imagine
you've always got to remember that this thing will
be watched sequentially and that we're the
ones you know jumping around and looping and
jumping from the start of the scene to the end of
the scene you've got to remember that everything we
work on will be watched linearly and so I always
kind of imagine this little diminishing graph of
relationships between the shot I'm working on and
the shots around it if that makes sense you know
you can you can you can feel the importance of
matching kind of trailing off either side of it
yeah so I mean I think I think that's something
I think about a lot is is context and relationships
but ultimately the big thing I'm always
thinking about is story right like yeah I'm not
actually a particularly visual person I've been
in these visual fields my whole life but I'm you
know I'm very narrative based I'm very word based
so I think story is like a superpower as a
colorist understanding filmmaking understanding
the language of cinema understanding the language
of editing understanding composition and color and
you know all this great stuff that we we absorb
from the other other craft disciplines
that can actually be your superpower as a colorist
because generally that's the language
that cinematographers and directors think and speak
in if that makes sense so as a colorist
if you can understand that if you can read that if
you can speak that then you know you'll have
collaborators for life right because you they might
think of you as a technician and all of a
sudden you're a proper collaborator you know like
you are invested in the same things as they are
and you're making decisions for the same reasons
that they are you know so I think that's story is
kind of a superpower so just watch a lot of films
you know I love that so what I'm what I'm seeing
and and I think this is very much a you thing
overall is that it's a very pragmatic approach
to the shot where maybe if you if you looked at it
as like oh but there's a look for this whole
thing so this shot needs to have cool shadows and
warm highlights but that's not actually serving
the story or that doesn't look good on that shot
that you're willing to sort of throw out the look
and serve the story serve the serve the shot as
long as there's a coherence and a thru line
that you can that you can weave so maybe that's
something in the contrast or maybe it's a
particular color that can take you through from
shot a to shot b over to shot c even if they have
different really different ways of of getting to
that end result yeah absolutely not going to be
limited by a workflow and go well computer says no
that's it no I mean no one looks at your resolve
projects you know like once it's done it technique
and neatness and proper workflow and order of
operations all of that stuff matters a lot right up
to the point where it doesn't you know and so
I remember spending you know a fairly tortured
period early on like wanting to do everything
properly wanting to do everything properly and
you know I remember I'd often I did a lot of
surf projects and things like that and so you
know you'd often encounter footage underwater and
footage underwater it never works with a look you
know like it it is you just have to grade it you
know the the person in one shot can be 10
centimeters further away from the camera and
the color of their skin completely changes it's
just how water works you know and so like
a lot of that water stuff taught me that there are
times when you just have to chuck it out
and put some nodes in a row you know and that's not
cheating or lesser or a bad workflow
you know you're working on images and the images in
the order that they're going to be seen like
that's the ultimate result you know so yeah don't
be afraid to sort of chuck it all out
when you need to you know I think that's great it's
sort of that whole thing of learn the
rules and then break them certainly know why
it's important to have one contrast curve or one
transform across the board but remember that it's
about your eyes and it's about what
the audience is seeing at the end of the day it's
not about how clever you might be as a colorist
and all of those are really important philosophies
that you have drank the Kool-Aid for
you know just because that's the style at the
time it might not be it might not be what's
appropriate for the image so I think that's
great advice to anybody and I know that I can
certainly get myself wrapped up in but like oh what
if you know they cut another version
and the shots are in a different order and I better
make sure that they match even if it's
making one shot look less aesthetically pleasing on
its own I better really make sure that you know
shot two matches shot 47 just in case I mean
look sometimes you do have to kill your darlings
you know like sometimes the most beautiful shot in
a scene needs to come down a bit to be closer to
you know the one that's not so great but yeah I
mean one of my least favorite things is just
being given a bunch of footage out of context and
saying like great this it's like well the reel
yeah like how well why like I can yeah I mean okay
it's all a bit magenta I can sort that out
but that's not really what I'm interested in doing
right I want to make these images sort of speak
to each other and if they're not in order how can
you do that you know it's very it's impossible
you know like you don't have those relationships
and that's kind of one of the most important
things and one of the things that we haven't
mentioned but is really implicit in everything
that we're just talking about is that Dan a
majority of the work that you do is in the TVC
space where you have the time to finesse one shot
and and really work it yes I
definitely came up sort of mostly doing short form
yeah I remember you do you do crossover now
oh yeah yeah yeah I think I think we're sort of
we're past those days where it's so segregated
which is great I mean I've been doing a lot
more long-form stuff recently like a
a couple of feature docos and a couple of
feature narrative projects and you know I was
I was definitely nervous at first because you
know you you you look at the shot count and you
look at the time you have and you do some maths and
a number comes out that just seems ridiculous
and so you ignore it but you do start grading
straight away yeah yeah but it's all just
grading right like like you you know you can be
working on the most technical dry thing it still
has a story and it still has a coherence and it
still has scenes and I think yeah all
the different disciplines sort of have you know
they use the same muscles in different ways
you know you have to change your emphasis a
little bit you know certainly on a on a long-form
or an episodic project you know you you lean a lot
more on structure and on
you know setups and you're very happy when
you encounter those things that are just
two shots of people talking to each other for a
long time because you're like wow okay I just
graded 80 shots and that's you know yeah but
yeah I think I think one of the things is I've
gotten more experiences as a colorist that is hard
to put into words I don't I don't know
how I do it but I just sort of it's easy to land
jobs in the sense that you know you might finish
you finish on time or you even finish early
sometimes that never used to happen to me
I think it's just sort of experience and like
making the right decisions
more than the wrong decisions getting caught up
less you know getting stuck on small details
that don't matter and sometimes getting stuck on
small details that really do matter you know
it does I think it just goes back to that idea
of like it's what we do is is technically very hard
and it's a lifetime craft but it does get
easier after a while you know like if you just
keep doing it it does get easier yeah I know
exactly what you mean about landing a project
and and being surprised when you get to a point
where oh my goodness we're approved
and I'm happy with it and what am I going to do but
then it does it does come out of the blue
every now and then and I had this the other day I
was working on a motion control tvc where they'd
shot with a robot program for camera moves
and they'd done a couple of takes that
needed to be stitched together and there were
several versions of it and it was all a one take
shot but there were maybe eight different
- versions of the TVC... and I thought well - Sounds like fun
how hard could that be you know we've we've only
got 16 shots to get through and we've got a full
day to do it and you know I was sweating at five pm
going oh my goodness I'm gonna need more time
and you know it hasn't happened to me for a very
long time that I've had to message a producer and
say hey how do you feel about me wrapping at seven
instead of six because I reckon by the time
I finish these tracks I'm still going to have an
hour's worth of handles to do and it took it
took me by surprise but I realized well I don't do
motion control jobs very often and I've made
decisions to put 25 windows into this shot
- And you realize there's 17 passes you need to - And I need to get those tracks to match
track them through with handles and the tracks
should match pretty well and well how do you
control that and so you know I I just had to say to
myself well next time I'll I'll remember this
and I'll say to myself this is motion control maybe
don't reach for the window see how else
you can solve that client request I'm a window
reacher I always reach the window I have I
have weaned myself onto softer elipses a lot more
though yes I like the softer elips oh just looks
like light doesn't it you know getting the darkroom
tools out yeah no I mean yeah anytime you find
yourself like semi-rotoing something
you're probably barking out the wrong tree but
every now and then you have to you know every now
and then no that's so right but just you know
you have to know when that moment is and I think if
you're doing similar types of work
you look at something and after you know your 15
years of doing this kind of work you can say
I know the client I know the agency I know the
director I know the DP I'm pretty sure they're
going to want this approach and you can get
cracking and you can get
to a point where everyone's
reasonably happy without having to get two hours
into the session and then completely reorient
yourself so you know there is a lot to be said
for just that knowing people yes yeah and sometimes
it's driven by the clients as well like sometimes
they know you and they trust you yeah true and
they're coming to you because they're like your
approach is what I want on this one absolutely
yeah yeah yeah and I think there is a bit of a
Dan Stonehouse look to be honest so well
it is interesting because I you know I do you know
I I am now recruiting colourists and so I
look at colourist work and I sort of I think you
know I don't look for style but I think everyone
has their tendencies everyone has their tastes and
if you look at a a large body of work from a
particular colourist a good colourist it won't all
look the same but you'll sort of start to
have an idea of their concerns of the things they
think about you know it's very hard to judge
colour even as an experienced colourist right
because when it's done well it sort of does
disappear and you don't have the context and you
don't have the offline so you know you don't know
whether it's one of those you know just beautiful
like passes you know I'm trying to think of the
sports metaphor here but I'm not a good sports
metaphor person you know like passing an alley
into the pool goes in the net or the hole or
whatever you know because the cinematographer
was just ridiculously talented or the jobs where
they've had to do absolute bloody surgery you know
but if you look at a colourist work together you
can see tendencies and you can see thought right
like you can see a point of view and I think that's
much more interesting than style you know
like style is a very sort of shorthand way of
summing that up you know but you can you can see
evidence of like of original thought or something
like you can see you can see handprints or
fingerprints or something it's a lot more slippery
than just style but but there's something there
you know so that's that's always what I look for
when I'm looking for colourists. I was having a
look at some stills from a recent job that you
posted on Instagram you'll have to refresh me
as to the name of it but it was a collaboration job
it was like Apple and oh yes yeah I mean I
think was Office Works first Apple seconds but
nonetheless okay I thought those stills were
so beautiful and I thought oh here's here's another
classic Dan grade where you've got really clean
pure beautiful colours like you've just thought
today I'm in love with yellow and I want a
symphony of yellow and I want it to be the most
enticing gorgeous yellow and it's not really
yellow is the colour I tussle with the most I think
yellow is the trickiest colour right I really do
I think I think it's the narrowest it's the
narrowest like technically
you know on one side you
have this sort of like yucky green sort of NTSC
kind of crevasse and then on the other side you
have this sort of magentery like magentery orange
kind of situation yeah actually I really spend
a lot of time thinking about yellow it's it's
troublesome I mean that's an interesting one
because that job yeah right that that job was I was
like it's a 15 seconder this is a bit of a
stretch you know there's not even enough shots to
get good stills out of you know like is it
really an apple job not sort of not really
but yeah no it's that's really nice
again it's that thing of you just don't have
perspective on your own work you know like
instagram is a funny thing to to throw your work
into because yeah every now and then something
will take off and you're like okay and then
something you think is fantastic will just
absolutely flop you know but of course there's
there's there's an algorithm you're
tussling with that no one really understands so you
can always blame the algorithm this is true
this is true you posted at 2 30 pm not 3 o'clock pm
or something yeah yeah so I should probably
wrap up shortly although I have been absolutely
loving every second of chatting with you
I suppose before I do
what do you see next for crayon and that's a that's
a bit of a wild card question right
and also an annoyingly open-ended one but where
where do you where do you want to steer this
ship that you've created the the thing you still
need a lot of money for is a theater
right so I can see that at some point in our future
because you know definitely as an
individual colorist you're not going to have a
theater but as a group of colors together
it's possible I want to keep on developing
cloud workflows sort of like both official and
unofficial I think you know look it's going to get
to the point probably in our careers where
we won't have a computer on our desks you know
we'll be spinning up a bunch of machines and
an underground lair somewhere with a zillion
graphics cards you know when we need to render
and and half a zillion when we don't but I think
I think there's a lot of interesting
stuff still to be done with technology but
technology like this was something I was
thinking about before but I don't think I mentioned
when you were talking about the technology and
being nerdy about you know Postgres databases and
all the rest of it I think colorists are extremely
good at thinking about creativity in an efficient
way about about workflow about getting to a
good result quickly right I think when you take
that mentality and you apply it to technology
when you really start to think about like how these
tools can be used you know from the
perspective of someone who you know like there are
tools I don't use on my panel because it's
two button presses instead of one you know like
that can be the difference between something I
use regularly and something I don't you know so
when you take that kind of hyper obsession with
like creative efficiency and you you you sort of
start looking at technology through that lens
you know it can it's not easy to come up with
new ideas but it can certainly be very interesting
to come up with ideas that benefits that benefit
all colorists right like that whether sort of
inside our organization or outside yeah so bore
like somewhat boring tools like databases
and things like that you know when you think about
them through the lens of ease of use and like
problems that we keep on facing it's it's yeah
it's really it's really interesting proactive so
we want to keep on coming up with like tools that
people would think are nerdy but other
colorists get excited about you know it's nice
having a captive audience to appreciate
invention in that area you know and I mean look
a big a big part of what Crayon does which
we have not really talked about is is the
production team is the producers right we have
we have a lot of producers and we have a lot of
sort of technology and infrastructure
that allow them to sort of effectively work with a
lot of different colorists and I think that's
probably like the secret source of of of what what
we're doing and and why it's working
you know it's about it's about helping colorists do
the things they're best at
and not have to do the things that they're not
the best at but it's also about
you know applying that kind of colorist thinking to
the producers roles and to the tools that we use
and and how to make that collaboration as
frictionless as possible right I think I think
that's a really interesting problem to solve you
know anytime anytime a colorist hits a problem
over and over and over again it's kind of you know
you can you can rail against it or you can
sort of turn it into yeah a problem to be solved
or something to adapt to or a workflow change
and it's it's it's sort of really interesting to be
able to apply that thinking to
yet to to all aspects of of the work we do right
like that it isn't just about
the grade session it's about sometimes the weeks of
discussions and negotiations and planning that
happened before and the stuff that happens after
you know from from invoicing to you know
making it easy for clients to pay versus tricky
like you know there's
there's all kinds of technology
you can use there to you know building workflows
to make sure you've generated the stills
for the the job the colorist really wants to post
and a way of getting that to the top of the list
so the producers you know can can action that
passively like all this all this pretty dry stuff
I find really interesting and it's a nice sort
of it's a nice way of of using that
colorist thinking but in a different context I
really enjoy it so lots more of that yes I
mean from from the perspective of somebody who's
represented by Crayon I have to say that that's
again nepotism alert nepotism alert well I know I
know but like I never say anything I don't mean
and yes I'm a I'm a bit I'm a bit like I'll say it
to your face but I I do think that that's been
one of the main benefits in coming on board as a
colorist as a Crayon colorist is
having those systems in place and it took me a
little bit to get on boarded.
It's a lot there's a lot of a lot of
- esoteric stuff we've developed - There are systems, right ?
yeah and and I have to try to understand those
systems and you know there are still
a few things that I just put in the too hard
basket and I will get to once I have some brain
space but to to have a team of people who know
what you need as a colorist right now
which is beyond just getting the session booked in
and paid for but also that you need to have
some stills for for publicity afterwards you
need to know who to credit in those stills and
who not to you need people who understand why
you may or may not mention a director's version
to an agency what director's version yeah
exactly all of those sorts of things
and and to know that yes it's really important for
our for our brain space to see an offline
ahead of time at least the day before and so we can
you know be in the shower the following
morning and have you know those thoughts just going
through of like okay I see a challenge
here I see a challenge there I'll be able to
possibly use this tool to solve that yeah yeah
just being able to gently sneak up on a project is
so nice yeah rather than like getting dropped
in the hot seat on the day yeah and I know that
when I'm doing my own producing that's the last
thing that I'm thinking about I'm just like going
in you know it's it's like every day is just
putting out fires spot fire management and it's
like I all right I've got I've got it in the
schedule at the right time and I'm there job done
I'm not thinking about getting the off-lines the
day before I'm not thinking about recording any
information about the job itself it's just get in
there get out get it done is everyone happy okay
phew what's next so it is nice to have that
sense that you know there are people who are
recording important information and are thinking
about things that I don't want to think about
and who is the name of this director you know
well you know it sounds it sounds stupid right
because like I love the directors that I work with
but sometimes you don't know the people sometimes
it's not the director who's got you involved you know
Ant then you're sitting is a dark room with people
- you don't necessarily get an introduction - no exactly I always say...
it's like you know you you sit in a room with
people sometimes new people every day
and then you look at a whole bunch of other people
the whole day you know and and then you know
you bump into someone getting coffee and they know
you really well they know the back of your head
really well and you you're just like gosh what was
the like what was the job you know when did I
work with this person before oh that's right I can
always remember the job so you know and we all
have to compartmentalize so much to to get what
we need to do done that there's only so
much that you can actually physically do with one
person so yes yeah exactly there are finite
resources of an individual person and and you
know sort of if you try and go beyond that you
very quickly find yourself running a small business
and yes you know it actually gets easier
in my experience like once you get beyond that sort
of one two three person scale you know
but having having had to go through that myself
I would like to help other people not to have
- to you know yeah and resources. - Just a quick shout out before
we wrap up and I really do need to go
because I have a session about to start and I'm
seeing a message that somebody has actually
jped into a zoom a little ahead of time so we
should wrap this up yes but I just wanted to
shout out to the other colorists at Crayon
absolutely and you know Sam McCarthy who is on
instagram Sam Sam in person it's just what I call
him in my head no I know I have directors I have
directors who I just think of by their like
instagram handles as well you know yeah so Sam
who's based in Melbourne with me Kali
Bateman obviously up in Brisbane shout out to you
and the recent edition of Max Ferguson-Hook who
has just moved from London to Auckland who
we're all very very excited about learning from
and used to be with time-based arts over in the
the esteemed time-based arts yes yes and Dan
and Max are currently having a really great time
putting together Max's grade suite well I feel like
I'm costing that I'm sending him towards
esoteric furniture yeah but also sending him
towards like Facebook marketplace bargains so
you know it kind of evens out something Dan's
exceptional at. I do I do I do love a bargain
so I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's work
as as we move forward as a little coloring team
little coloring family yeah and I and I do love
having this little peanut gallery to say
you know give each other a little bit of egging on
and reinforcing the great work that everyone
does and also having people to help troubleshoot
the inevitable things that go wrong the the classic
terse message from in the grade about like have you
ever seen this problem before you know
and then everyone immediately like assembles like
Batman to to to log suggestions...
Turn off caching is usually the answer yes absolutely so
look I better I better finish up and jump on
the zoom but thank you so much for joining me
Dan pleasure yes I'm sure we'll speak again today
and I hope this comes across as
a podcast podcast not just like a
a rambling conversation between some colleagues but
yeah they're the best ones thank you so
much for Mixing Light I'm Kali Bateman and I'll
see you all again soon bye @wearecrayon on
instagram give me a follow all right see ya bye