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Hi everyone this is Kali Bateman for Mixing

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Light and today I am thrilled to be talking

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with esteemed colourist and colleague of mine

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Daniel Stonehouse who has been colouring in

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Melbourne since I started and probably well before

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and we were always very aware of one another

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as we were coming up and is now the founder and

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owner and colourist at Crayon which is a studio

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that is also representing

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myself so full disclosure everyone.

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Nepotism alert.

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Yes that's right so I'm very thrilled to be on the

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books at Crayon now and Dan and his team have

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made me feel extremely welcome and have looked

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after myself and my clients very very beautifully

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through the transition so I've been a Crayon

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colourist now for coming up to six months which

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is hard to believe how quickly

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that's gone. Six months already.

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Amazing.

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Yes it must be coming up soon and so yeah just

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absolutely thrilled to have Dan here today to talk

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to me about running a boutique colour shop that not

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only has a physical presence in Melbourne but

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also is remotely representing a growing roster of

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colourists including myself and doing a beautiful

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job at it so welcome welcome Dan

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and thank you so much for joining me.

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So I'd love to know you know we came up together I

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remember always seeing your work as a junior

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and an aspiring colourist and thinking wow this

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guy's got it and how does he do that and I wish

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I could do that and always

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being slightly jealous as one is.

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Well look vice versa I can I can remember a

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particular music video that you did I think

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for Courtney Barnett I'm

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remembering probably. Oh yes.

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The very gritty dark one in the caravan and I was

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like why didn't I get to you know I do all this

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bloody happy shiny shiny colourful stuff you know

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and you get the like the dark bleak you know

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depressing one why didn't I get to do that you know

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so yeah I think I think we're of a similar

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generation and a similar set of experiences is

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coming up. I always date my start to about when

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Apple Color came out I'm sure a lot of people in

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my generation do too I always think of that as

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sort of being around the time the Canon 5D came out

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as well and those two things are quite linked

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you know that there were all of a sudden a lot lots

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of new DPs and directors and also

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lots of new colourists and we all sort of work

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together in the early days doing our best with

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Canon 5D footage you know. That's right yes it was

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the beginning of the democratization

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of colour grading I suppose because you know all of

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a sudden there were new emerging cinematographers

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who had this sort of easier entry into the market

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didn't have to buy a hundred thousand

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dollar camera to start shooting and so they were

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able to work with people who weren't as established

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like yourself and myself giving us the the very

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important 10 000 hours that we needed to become

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good at this crazy personal job. Absolutely and the

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fun task of just seeing what we could do with

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fairly low bit rates h264 footage. Absolutely and

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I remember those days the sort of the

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digital revolution was happening and there was a

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new digital format every sort of other day and I

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remember being given hard drives and told hey we

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need this in the system tomorrow and you'd be

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like oh well there's no programs that I know of

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that can read this file format and it doesn't seem

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to have time code or real names so it was a period

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of great trial and error and stick to itness 

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I seem to recall. Absolutely if I scroll all the way

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back you know I'm one of these people that has

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my iPhone photos going back you know pretty much to

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the dawn of time but there's a a particular

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image of a one of the old Apple cinema displays

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with an early version of Red Cine on it holding

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up an iPhone you know a very early iPhone for

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some banking ad so you know we were trying to

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work out how to use red footage and how to

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transcode it and how to get the best out of it 

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you know before you got it into the grading system

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because you couldn't work with the

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raws and yeah it was it was a time of a lot of

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experimentation a lot of learning for everyone.

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Yes and I think it produced people who are good

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problem solvers didn't they? Well you had to. And

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you were willing to sit down and just nut it out

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but just for the just the listener or the the

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audience out there so to give a bit of context

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would you say this is roughly sort of 15 years ago

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that we're talking about? I mean I've been look

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I've been saying 15 years for probably longer than

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15 years I should really I should really get my my

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dates and time straight look I think

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I think Apple Color came out around 2007 which

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was a big deal because Apple just bought

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the whole company and chucked it in with the Final

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Cut suite and so all of a sudden you had

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you know like a commonly available program that

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could do secondaries that wasn't just

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the old three-way color corrector in Final Cut

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or whatever After Effects like to think of as

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color tools you know so all of a sudden there was

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this readily available program that was enough

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like you know the big things that the the

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posthouses were spending millions of dollars on

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where you could actually really sink your teeth

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into and learn the craft I mean I'd done so

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I had worked in an animation studio I was working

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in an animation studio at that time that was sort

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of had evolved from being very scrappy and doing

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some production and doing some animation and

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basically winning jobs and saying yes to things and

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figuring out how to do them on the fly so I

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definitely graded footage before without really

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knowing what it was you know I'd taken stuff and

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made it look better but then all of a sudden there

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was this sort of context to do it in 

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and it just really felt like a great fit you know

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like the the time scale the collaborative

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nature of it the fact that there wasn't really a

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right answer but there was there were answers

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that were righter than others yeah I just sort

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of did it and did more and more of it and fell in

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love with it and realized that there was like a

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like a craft depth there that I could

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quite happily explore for a really long time 

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yeah so that was kind of my start and 

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you know working in an animation company it sort of

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started to not make sense to say like oh hey

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we're so and so and we represent animation

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directors and then there's Dan who does all

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this other stuff as well so my employer and I

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decided to start a sort of a sister company

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that I'd be a partner in and around that time as

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well you know my my a building was bought

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that we're still in to this day and that was a

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big part of sort of the the birth of crayon as a

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company we were big fans of BEAN in Sydney,

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Ben Eagleton and Andrew's company they were very

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forward thinking they were doing things like yes

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sending hard drives to clients you know like they'd

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send a big a big raid over so you know they could

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you could get the footage on something fast enough

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to work with and and they just had this very sort

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of modern and nimble kind of 

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brand and reputation and that was a big

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inspiration for us you know in some ways

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we were trying to do a version of that in

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Melbourne but with a colorist who is a little

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bit less experienced which was stressful you know

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for me but stuck at it yeah BEAN, BEAN is a

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company in Sydney Ben Eagleton and Andrew Clarkson

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and if anyone listened to my interview

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with Fergus Rotherham those are his mentors 

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and if if you're Australian or potentially

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anyone would know Ben Eagleton's work I'm not

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sure if BEAN was before or after Ben's stint in LA

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do you know Dan? I can't remember the exact

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timeline of it but you know they've had a

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beautiful reputation they did and still do to this

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day even though I don't believe BEAN is is still

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the same scenario that it was Ben is freelance

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now and I believe he has just BE

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so I may edit this out because I should get my

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facts straight before I open my mouth

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in any case they're they're colorists who have

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had a huge impact on the Australian industry

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and also in terms of philosophy to be role models I

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think that generation of colorists were role

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models for mine and Dan's generation coming up

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they were people that we could say well look here

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are people who are really doing it to a world-class

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standard and you know there's absolutely nothing

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that can go wrong if we aim for that and I think to

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us especially they represented a new way of

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doing things you know I never worked in a post

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house I sometimes that's good good distinction

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because being... being a boutique.

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Yes. Exactly right I sometimes like to joke I've never

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been in a grade before because I haven't you know I

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I was definitely of the generation that was sort

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of completely self-taught and you know I could I

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can remember you know in the early days the other

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colorists I encountered you know like on on one

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hand I could count them and some of them wanted to

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talk shop and some of them didn't some of them very

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much didn't you know so that was also

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that sort of another thing that shaped my thinking

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is the difficulty of sort of doing it on your

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own and the solitary nature of our work

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sometimes and how to sort of encourage solidarity

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and sharing and sort of escape the competition

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mentality you know that that crafts people can

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sometimes have with with others in their field you

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know yeah so I'm not sure if I answered

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the questionnaire with no no no all kinds of

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tangents no I think there's a few really

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interesting points there because you know we

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touched on it earlier that you and I had a bit

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of healthy jealousy of one another and I think

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that's part of being in the same generation as your

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colleagues and you know especially in Australia

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sometimes you can feel like there's quite a small

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pie and there's not enough slices to go around and

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you know there's always people with opinions

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about whether or not you can or should be pursuing

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this very niche career and some people aren't

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particularly shy about letting you know whether or

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not they think you have a place in the industry

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and I don't know whether or not that goes away or

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whether or not you just develop a tolerance

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and a thicker skin to it as you mature but it is

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something that can shape you as a colorist and

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you know whether or not you get one of those

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coveted assisting roles in the big facility or not

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there is a pathway there and not everybody needs

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to do the same color job or have the same

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approach because if we all did you know every

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client would also have to be

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the same and they're not so

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you know there was definitely a niche for crayon in

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the market that you found and modeling it on

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BEAN like what a great company to say hey they're

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doing it let's do it too so you know you really

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did go straight into that boutique market and dealt

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with the challenges that anybody has 

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coming up which is you know how do I find somebody

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who's willing to teach me and how do I teach

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myself and where do I find those resources so you

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know did did that what kind of effect did that have

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on your sort of approach to grading or your

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philosophy around grading

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did that shape that at all

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I think going back even further you know I've

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always been the kind of person where if I if I'm

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interested in a subject it just becomes all

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consing and I will follow my taste I'll

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explore it and you know I'll usually there's

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there's a famous Ira Glass lengthy quote about

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creativity essentially being that the problem is

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when you start your taste exceeds your ability

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and maybe you actually never catch up you know in

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some ways but you you can get a bit closer

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after after your 10 000 hours you're you you might

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admit to yourself that some of your work is is

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actually okay but yeah I guess in high school I

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got really into photography I was a I was a

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terrible skateboarder so I got into photography so

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I would have something to do while everyone

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00:14:32.621 --> 00:14:36.041
else was doing more impressive tricks than me 

258
00:14:36.041 --> 00:14:39.461
but then that led into working as a photographer

259
00:14:39.962 --> 00:14:43.048
shooting local bands working for street press

260
00:14:43.048 --> 00:14:45.551
and things like that funnily enough to the point

261
00:14:45.593 --> 00:14:49.179
where I felt quite jaded by about sort of 16 or 17

262
00:14:49.179 --> 00:14:52.224
like I'd been I'd been spat out by the industry

263
00:14:52.224 --> 00:14:56.020
and you know 50 bucks for film and and a and a name

264
00:14:56.020 --> 00:14:57.688
on the door wasn't quite enough anymore

265
00:14:58.230 --> 00:15:00.941
and then I sort of followed my interest into

266
00:15:00.941 --> 00:15:04.486
graphic design similar kind of thing just sort

267
00:15:04.486 --> 00:15:08.532
of got quite obsessed with it self-taught

268
00:15:08.532 --> 00:15:12.077
thought I was going to study design out of

269
00:15:12.119 --> 00:15:15.956
uni but then maybe didn't realize that those

270
00:15:15.956 --> 00:15:17.875
courses were actually quite hard to get into

271
00:15:18.667 --> 00:15:19.960
there's a little bit cocky about my

272
00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:26.425
chances but my point being that

273
00:15:27.926 --> 00:15:32.139
when color came along you know I'd sort of been in

274
00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:36.226
this I don't know like this long period of

275
00:15:36.268 --> 00:15:40.314
of finding new loves new crafts

276
00:15:40.314 --> 00:15:43.734
and teaching myself about them so

277
00:15:45.319 --> 00:15:50.866
in that era resources were very scarce I was

278
00:15:50.866 --> 00:15:52.284
saying to someone the other day like there

279
00:15:52.284 --> 00:15:54.495
was that one blue book you know the art of color

280
00:15:54.495 --> 00:15:57.539
correction did you ever see that it was about the

281
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:01.835
only thing the Alex Van Herkman one yeah a classic

282
00:16:01.835 --> 00:16:04.046
of the genre you know every very small genre

283
00:16:04.755 --> 00:16:09.176
yeah but I mean that was that was like I don't know

284
00:16:09.176 --> 00:16:10.886
that was like discovering treasure or something

285
00:16:10.886 --> 00:16:15.432
because you know yeah there'd be the odd tutorial

286
00:16:15.432 --> 00:16:17.726
or the odd website and you'd pick up bits and

287
00:16:17.726 --> 00:16:22.272
pieces and you'd read manuals for software like

288
00:16:22.272 --> 00:16:25.776
like like they were novels you know hoping

289
00:16:25.776 --> 00:16:30.280
someone had slipped in a little bit about you know

290
00:16:30.280 --> 00:16:31.990
the actual work we were doing not not just

291
00:16:32.032 --> 00:16:37.538
the technical but the process the why's that

292
00:16:37.538 --> 00:16:39.998
that information was extremely hard to find

293
00:16:40.416 --> 00:16:42.209
but there were bits and pieces here and there you

294
00:16:42.209 --> 00:16:44.169
know so I guess I just sort of took that

295
00:16:44.795 --> 00:16:50.718
kind of quiet desperation and and kind of

296
00:16:50.718 --> 00:16:52.469
hunger for education and I just

297
00:16:52.886 --> 00:16:55.973
move it up absolutely everything I could you know

298
00:16:55.973 --> 00:17:00.477
and would piece bits and pieces together and

299
00:17:00.769 --> 00:17:04.273
and just try and make it work you know you'd

300
00:17:04.273 --> 00:17:05.482
you'd you'd get a little

301
00:17:05.482 --> 00:17:06.859
hint about a technique like

302
00:17:07.401 --> 00:17:12.614
and and you'd implement it you'd you'd go what

303
00:17:12.614 --> 00:17:15.492
the hell is cineon space oh okay it's how film

304
00:17:15.492 --> 00:17:18.078
scanned why is it so soft oh you've got to use an

305
00:17:18.078 --> 00:17:19.663
s-curve you know you just piece all these things

306
00:17:19.663 --> 00:17:25.085
together and and put it together but yeah it

307
00:17:25.085 --> 00:17:27.004
was it was pretty slim pickings in terms of

308
00:17:27.004 --> 00:17:30.340
resources for learning wasn't it I seem to

309
00:17:30.340 --> 00:17:34.344
remember it kind of it was fx phd that blew the

310
00:17:34.344 --> 00:17:37.973
lid off it for me yeah because I'd always had

311
00:17:37.973 --> 00:17:40.893
this interest and I'd been looking for

312
00:17:41.185 --> 00:17:44.688
ever since I was at uni and got to go and get my

313
00:17:44.688 --> 00:17:49.234
films graded at what was it called that place

314
00:17:49.902 --> 00:17:53.489
in south melbourne where Vincent worked no no it

315
00:17:53.489 --> 00:17:57.367
wasn't that's Complete Post Complete Post

316
00:17:57.367 --> 00:17:59.870
of course yeah Dean McClellan and Vincent Taylor

317
00:17:59.870 --> 00:18:02.372
were working oh lovely other amazing

318
00:18:02.414 --> 00:18:06.668
colors working there I know and I remember Dee

319
00:18:06.668 --> 00:18:11.256
graded this really terrible zombie movie that

320
00:18:11.256 --> 00:18:14.510
I was short film that I made and she made it look

321
00:18:14.510 --> 00:18:18.806
so much better it was shot on mini dv and she made

322
00:18:18.847 --> 00:18:21.600
it look like it was something and I remember

323
00:18:21.600 --> 00:18:25.062
thinking my goodness how do you do that but like

324
00:18:25.062 --> 00:18:27.648
you you know I was sort of out there on my own

325
00:18:27.648 --> 00:18:30.734
going where do you find the information and I

326
00:18:30.734 --> 00:18:33.946
think now with you know websites like Mixing Light

327
00:18:33.946 --> 00:18:39.326
and the availability of being able to reach out

328
00:18:39.409 --> 00:18:44.873
to actually ask colorists internationally on you

329
00:18:44.873 --> 00:18:49.336
know panels and social media and just just how

330
00:18:49.336 --> 00:18:52.339
sort of global it's become and how accessible it's

331
00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:55.592
become it really was a different world when we

332
00:18:55.592 --> 00:18:58.595
started out so I'm just having like a secret

333
00:18:58.595 --> 00:19:01.348
society you know it really was a secret society

334
00:19:01.348 --> 00:19:03.183
and you were sort of knocking at the door like

335
00:19:03.183 --> 00:19:07.187
thinking you're wearing the coste the right way

336
00:19:07.229 --> 00:19:09.690
and then being scared that you weren't you know and

337
00:19:09.690 --> 00:19:11.608
that you weren't gonna get laid in with the

338
00:19:11.692 --> 00:19:18.115
stone cutter's handshake but I mean that it's still

339
00:19:18.115 --> 00:19:21.034
something I sort of tell people these days

340
00:19:21.034 --> 00:19:24.121
especially younger people who who want to break

341
00:19:24.121 --> 00:19:26.415
into the industry who want to be a colorist like

342
00:19:27.374 --> 00:19:31.837
the trick is really just not stopping you know like

343
00:19:31.837 --> 00:19:36.174
there's no there's no other way to do it

344
00:19:36.216 --> 00:19:40.512
apart from that like you are a colorist until you

345
00:19:40.512 --> 00:19:44.308
tell yourself you're not and inevitably

346
00:19:44.766 --> 00:19:47.102
opportunities will come your way with persistence

347
00:19:47.102 --> 00:19:48.854
but I mean sometimes it takes a lot of

348
00:19:49.062 --> 00:19:52.983
persistence you know the you know it is certainly a

349
00:19:52.983 --> 00:19:57.154
bigger field than it was and you know the sort

350
00:19:57.154 --> 00:20:00.157
of customers the consers the clients like have a

351
00:20:00.157 --> 00:20:02.451
much better understanding of what it is we do

352
00:20:02.492 --> 00:20:08.290
and why it's necessary but you know we're still

353
00:20:08.290 --> 00:20:13.795
specialists you know so really

354
00:20:13.795 --> 00:20:17.549
anything you can do 

355
00:20:17.549 --> 00:20:20.218
I couldn't agree more and not

356
00:20:20.218 --> 00:20:22.012
listening to the people who tell you that you

357
00:20:22.012 --> 00:20:25.390
shouldn't or can't and you know getting back up

358
00:20:25.390 --> 00:20:28.602
when you fall down is all a major part of it

359
00:20:28.644 --> 00:20:32.564
I'd say maybe 80 percent of it but I mean just

360
00:20:32.564 --> 00:20:35.442
thinking about the difference between that and now

361
00:20:35.692 --> 00:20:39.071
you certainly wouldn't have had a client pull out

362
00:20:39.071 --> 00:20:43.033
resolve on their laptop or ipad and you know

363
00:20:43.033 --> 00:20:45.786
grade a couple of shots in your session and say hey

364
00:20:45.786 --> 00:20:47.621
can you make it look like that you know

365
00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:52.376
it was a lot it was a lot more secret yes and

366
00:20:52.376 --> 00:20:56.296
the systems were extremely expensive and yeah

367
00:20:56.380 --> 00:21:00.050
fortunately apple color came out and and gave you

368
00:21:00.050 --> 00:21:04.179
that in and I mean it's it's all about

369
00:21:04.429 --> 00:21:07.891
the color not the tool right so if you're an

370
00:21:07.891 --> 00:21:10.560
amazing colorist it doesn't matter what you're in

371
00:21:11.395 --> 00:21:14.356
it doesn't matter what tools you're using you're

372
00:21:14.356 --> 00:21:18.235
going to get results that pleasing whether

373
00:21:18.235 --> 00:21:21.571
it's in apple color or resolve or well yeah I mean

374
00:21:21.571 --> 00:21:23.323
you know you're grading with your brain and

375
00:21:23.323 --> 00:21:26.451
your eyes ultimately you know sometimes

376
00:21:26.451 --> 00:21:29.454
dismissively when mostly when I'm trying to

377
00:21:29.454 --> 00:21:32.332
encourage editors to use DaVinci Resolve I jokingly

378
00:21:32.332 --> 00:21:34.626
say it's well it's just rectangles in a row right

379
00:21:34.626 --> 00:21:38.672
like does it you know like does it really matter

380
00:21:38.672 --> 00:21:40.424
what program you're using but color is kind of

381
00:21:40.424 --> 00:21:42.551
the same I mean look there are niceties to

382
00:21:42.551 --> 00:21:45.637
different systems there's performance benefits

383
00:21:45.762 --> 00:21:50.225
there's some tools that are just brilliant and

384
00:21:50.225 --> 00:21:52.978
wonderful and open and you know other things

385
00:21:53.061 --> 00:21:54.980
where you find yourself little dead ends and

386
00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:57.899
cul-de-sacs but ultimately it's your eyes and

387
00:21:57.899 --> 00:22:01.570
your hands you know and your brain that's the

388
00:22:01.570 --> 00:22:03.196
those are the tools you're color grading with

389
00:22:03.196 --> 00:22:06.616
and you can adapt you know like no one likes that

390
00:22:06.616 --> 00:22:09.036
period of time where you're like oh I know

391
00:22:09.036 --> 00:22:10.704
there's a button for this somewhere I just don't

392
00:22:10.704 --> 00:22:13.540
know where it is that's never a fun week but that's

393
00:22:13.540 --> 00:22:15.959
not really the big problem of our work right the

394
00:22:15.959 --> 00:22:18.336
big problem is like why like why are we doing what

395
00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:23.675
we're doing how are we corralling all this sort

396
00:22:23.675 --> 00:22:26.136
of technical knowledge and this instinct and

397
00:22:27.471 --> 00:22:31.683
you know perception and taste how are we corralling

398
00:22:31.683 --> 00:22:34.728
that all into sort of getting from one end of a

399
00:22:34.728 --> 00:22:37.856
project to the other you know successfully with

400
00:22:37.856 --> 00:22:40.776
with happy happy clients who feel listened to and

401
00:22:41.068 --> 00:22:43.403
like they've participated that's really the the

402
00:22:43.403 --> 00:22:47.783
tough part probably tougher than the more

403
00:22:47.824 --> 00:22:50.744
obvious part of technical knowledge you know but 

404
00:22:50.744 --> 00:22:54.831
yeah you just have to keep on doing it

405
00:22:54.831 --> 00:22:56.416
and then eventually you hit a point where you're

406
00:22:56.416 --> 00:22:59.169
like oh this is less stressful than it used to be

407
00:22:59.753 --> 00:23:02.339
not always every now and then you know you have a

408
00:23:02.339 --> 00:23:03.840
you have a day or you have a week

409
00:23:04.382 --> 00:23:09.638
or a project but mostly it does get better 

410
00:23:09.638 --> 00:23:14.768
but yeah these are just yeah so tell me about

411
00:23:15.435 --> 00:23:22.317
like how you transitioned from colorist and partner

412
00:23:22.317 --> 00:23:25.695
in a sister company to an animation studio

413
00:23:26.404 --> 00:23:31.326
and then had this current iteration where crayon is

414
00:23:31.326 --> 00:23:35.997
yours and you're an artist but you're also the

415
00:23:35.997 --> 00:23:39.292
business owner which I have to say from the side

416
00:23:39.292 --> 00:23:40.919
of somebody who's represented by a company

417
00:23:41.628 --> 00:23:45.423
it does have a different feeling to to being

418
00:23:45.423 --> 00:23:49.010
represented in a business where the kind of

419
00:23:49.010 --> 00:23:54.057
top-down ownership is an artist it feels a lot

420
00:23:54.057 --> 00:23:56.226
different to the top-down ownership being more

421
00:23:56.226 --> 00:24:00.647
producer or production based you know not to say

422
00:24:00.647 --> 00:24:02.065
that one's better than the other but it

423
00:24:02.065 --> 00:24:04.234
certainly has a different flavor and it is quite

424
00:24:04.234 --> 00:24:08.655
lovely to know that it's the artist concerns

425
00:24:09.239 --> 00:24:15.287
that are the most I don't even know what the

426
00:24:15.287 --> 00:24:17.372
right word is but they're they're top of mind

427
00:24:17.414 --> 00:24:22.002
really artist concerns yeah exactly how did you how

428
00:24:22.002 --> 00:24:24.713
did you find crayon's current iteration

429
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:27.716
yeah it was an evolution I mean there's there's

430
00:24:27.716 --> 00:24:30.177
some stuff that's just sort of in our DNA 

431
00:24:30.802 --> 00:24:34.806
so you know crayon was originally founded by a

432
00:24:34.806 --> 00:24:37.767
director who became an entrepreneur 

433
00:24:38.727 --> 00:24:44.900
you know who and and a colorist and I think the

434
00:24:44.900 --> 00:24:49.070
idea was to to create a space that clients

435
00:24:49.070 --> 00:24:54.492
actually wanted to be in you know to you know

436
00:24:54.492 --> 00:24:57.746
you'd hear like a lot about people going to the

437
00:24:57.746 --> 00:25:00.290
big the big main post houses and essentially not

438
00:25:00.290 --> 00:25:05.128
having a good time you know and we wanted to

439
00:25:05.170 --> 00:25:09.633
be sort of new school and nimble and you know

440
00:25:09.633 --> 00:25:13.303
leverage that our experience you know like our

441
00:25:13.303 --> 00:25:15.263
background and experience was broader than just

442
00:25:15.263 --> 00:25:20.477
color you know that that I we both had design

443
00:25:20.477 --> 00:25:23.605
backgrounds essentially and and we sort of use that

444
00:25:23.605 --> 00:25:26.316
sort of foundational way of creative thinking

445
00:25:26.316 --> 00:25:27.817
we could we could sort of translate that into

446
00:25:27.817 --> 00:25:29.402
different jobs but at the same time it's like

447
00:25:29.402 --> 00:25:32.405
someone needs you to type set a title you can bust

448
00:25:32.405 --> 00:25:34.532
out the old design skills you don't have to go

449
00:25:34.574 --> 00:25:37.327
okay well you need half a day in smoke and that's

450
00:25:37.327 --> 00:25:39.287
going to cost you and your producer needs to talk

451
00:25:39.287 --> 00:25:41.164
to my producer like we could just be a bit more

452
00:25:41.164 --> 00:25:45.210
nimble and fluid and and kind of client friendly

453
00:25:45.418 --> 00:25:48.505
so that's in our DNA 

454
00:25:49.172 --> 00:25:52.175
and then sort of the evolution of the business 

455
00:25:52.175 --> 00:25:55.845
my business partner ended up heading overseas

456
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:58.890
and starting an absolutely

457
00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:03.270
huge successful tech company 

458
00:26:05.230 --> 00:26:10.443
which definitely took up most of their time so

459
00:26:10.443 --> 00:26:13.113
there was a period of time where crayon was

460
00:26:13.113 --> 00:26:16.366
sort of just it was what it was it was what it was

461
00:26:16.366 --> 00:26:18.201
designed and it was continuing in that direction

462
00:26:18.827 --> 00:26:24.207
you know there were some times where we we

463
00:26:24.207 --> 00:26:26.501
dabbled with representing editors for a while

464
00:26:27.252 --> 00:26:31.006
and sort of being end to end but we also always

465
00:26:31.006 --> 00:26:32.966
sort of came back to this idea of being

466
00:26:33.717 --> 00:26:35.719
you know what we'd like to call these those color

467
00:26:35.719 --> 00:26:39.639
focused right that we it's not only color but it's

468
00:26:39.973 --> 00:26:42.767
it's it's it's a business that's sort of focused on

469
00:26:42.767 --> 00:26:46.855
that part of the process and the things that

470
00:26:46.855 --> 00:26:55.780
surround it and you know after a few years of 

471
00:26:55.780 --> 00:26:58.700
me being the only colorist here I started to

472
00:26:58.700 --> 00:27:05.040
think really heavily about new models for how 

473
00:27:05.040 --> 00:27:08.251
crayon could grow you know we were in a world

474
00:27:08.251 --> 00:27:10.545
where almost every colorist in Australia was

475
00:27:10.545 --> 00:27:13.214
freelance you know there were there was a time

476
00:27:13.214 --> 00:27:15.759
where I'd joke and say like I'm the only colorist

477
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.470
with the job left you know...

478
00:27:18.470 --> 00:27:20.305
It is true...

479
00:27:20.305 --> 00:27:24.100
yeah the industry had sort of you know

480
00:27:24.100 --> 00:27:27.479
we'd we'd left that big post house era

481
00:27:28.646 --> 00:27:31.524
and we were in a new world where everyone was

482
00:27:31.524 --> 00:27:34.277
freelance and so everyone was sort of on their

483
00:27:34.277 --> 00:27:38.281
own you know and already kind of at times lonely

484
00:27:38.281 --> 00:27:42.702
or at least you know individual job

485
00:27:42.827 --> 00:27:46.331
sort of I felt like we were getting broken down

486
00:27:46.331 --> 00:27:49.417
into smaller and smaller pieces you know and

487
00:27:49.417 --> 00:27:53.838
I think there was some good stuff you know some

488
00:27:53.838 --> 00:27:56.758
that was lost in the move away from the big

489
00:27:56.800 --> 00:28:00.887
post houses yes you know like a certain amount

490
00:28:00.887 --> 00:28:04.349
of like just pressure caused by money

491
00:28:04.557 --> 00:28:08.812
you know caused by costs caused by the costs

492
00:28:08.812 --> 00:28:12.107
of the rooms you know the kind of rock star

493
00:28:12.107 --> 00:28:14.067
mentality you know I think I think it's good that

494
00:28:14.067 --> 00:28:18.154
we've sort of moved on from there but you know

495
00:28:18.154 --> 00:28:19.823
we sort of threw out a whole bunch of stuff at the

496
00:28:19.823 --> 00:28:21.533
same time like we threw out institutional

497
00:28:21.533 --> 00:28:25.703
knowledge we threw out you know the glue in between

498
00:28:25.703 --> 00:28:29.332
all the stages you know you you see

499
00:28:29.332 --> 00:28:32.794
it now sometimes where where like in ad agency for

500
00:28:32.794 --> 00:28:35.880
example we'll sort of throw a an editor a

501
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:40.844
colorist and a you know an online or a flame or

502
00:28:40.844 --> 00:28:43.012
a smoke artist together and it's sort of like

503
00:28:43.763 --> 00:28:45.932
that's not a post pipeline for a job like I mean

504
00:28:45.932 --> 00:28:48.059
we're used to it we can talk to each other and we

505
00:28:48.059 --> 00:28:53.982
can make it work but it's not the same as you know

506
00:28:53.982 --> 00:28:55.817
the glue that holds it all together and I

507
00:28:55.817 --> 00:28:58.528
mean I think another thing was I'd always had the

508
00:28:58.528 --> 00:29:00.864
benefit of having a producer my entire career I

509
00:29:00.864 --> 00:29:03.741
had some form of producer in the early days when

510
00:29:03.741 --> 00:29:08.455
I was dabbling we had people who you know

511
00:29:08.455 --> 00:29:11.291
like I never had to send an invoice in in my

512
00:29:11.291 --> 00:29:15.378
entire career which was a great luxury and yeah

513
00:29:15.712 --> 00:29:17.630
as the industry sort of got it gotten broken down

514
00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:21.092
into into freelancers I was like how do how do

515
00:29:22.093 --> 00:29:26.264
people do it you know like how do you...

516
00:29:26.264 --> 00:29:27.932
a stressful full day in a commercial

517
00:29:29.017 --> 00:29:31.895
and at lunch time the job from yesterday is

518
00:29:31.895 --> 00:29:34.981
hassling you about a new shot and someone wants

519
00:29:34.981 --> 00:29:39.152
to shift the booking you know from tomorrow to

520
00:29:39.152 --> 00:29:41.738
the day after meaning you have to shift another

521
00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:43.781
book like I just didn't understand how it was

522
00:29:43.781 --> 00:29:46.910
possible and certainly it is possible because

523
00:29:46.910 --> 00:29:52.207
people do it but I don't know I just yeah it's

524
00:29:52.207 --> 00:29:55.001
also not a skill set like personally that

525
00:29:55.126 --> 00:30:00.298
producing skill set it can seem easy when it's

526
00:30:00.298 --> 00:30:05.094
being done well and you know I I came up in

527
00:30:05.094 --> 00:30:08.139
facilities and I was used to producers who are very

528
00:30:08.139 --> 00:30:11.017
very good at their jobs managing everything

529
00:30:11.434 --> 00:30:14.187
and so you would think well what's the big deal it

530
00:30:14.187 --> 00:30:17.398
can't be that hard and then of course when I

531
00:30:17.398 --> 00:30:20.151
had to start doing it for myself I was like oh my

532
00:30:20.151 --> 00:30:24.113
god this is really difficult it's a full job with

533
00:30:24.113 --> 00:30:27.617
a full set of skills that aren't in my wheelhouse

534
00:30:27.617 --> 00:30:31.037
and I've never learned and I just don't even

535
00:30:31.037 --> 00:30:32.956
know where to start like put me in front of an

536
00:30:32.956 --> 00:30:35.458
excel spreadsheet and I'll you know I'm a bit

537
00:30:35.458 --> 00:30:38.878
better now but at the beginning I was like I felt

538
00:30:38.878 --> 00:30:41.339
like a newborn baby like what do I even do here

539
00:30:41.381 --> 00:30:45.385
where do I click so you know and those are the

540
00:30:45.385 --> 00:30:48.221
sort of things that you don't think about but

541
00:30:48.972 --> 00:30:52.392
recording you know and this is like a little bit in

542
00:30:52.392 --> 00:30:55.603
the weeds but when I was doing my own producing

543
00:30:56.396 --> 00:30:59.190
I would always do the bare minim that was

544
00:30:59.190 --> 00:31:02.610
required to secure a booking and then invoice

545
00:31:02.610 --> 00:31:06.906
at the at the end but I didn't take down job names

546
00:31:06.906 --> 00:31:09.284
properly or the names of people who were

547
00:31:09.325 --> 00:31:12.412
in the suite so when it came time to be like oh wow

548
00:31:12.412 --> 00:31:14.497
I did this thing and now it's been released

549
00:31:15.081 --> 00:31:18.501
how do I go about promoting that on social media

550
00:31:18.501 --> 00:31:20.628
well I don't even remember the director's name

551
00:31:21.004 --> 00:31:23.965
so now I've got another big job of trying to work

552
00:31:23.965 --> 00:31:27.594
out and backtrack and retrace my steps and you know

553
00:31:27.760 --> 00:31:31.014
just those systems right that producers just think

554
00:31:31.014 --> 00:31:37.145
to do in the moment I learned a lot doing it

555
00:31:38.229 --> 00:31:41.608
myself but I never got good at it ever well it's

556
00:31:41.608 --> 00:31:44.527
impossible it's impossible to be good at it as a

557
00:31:44.527 --> 00:31:47.530
as a busy colourist right because it is a

558
00:31:47.530 --> 00:31:49.490
specialist skill and there's just not enough

559
00:31:50.116 --> 00:31:53.202
time in the day to do it effectively and as you

560
00:31:53.202 --> 00:31:55.121
know our lives change and we get older and we

561
00:31:55.121 --> 00:31:58.541
have kids and all the rest of it I mean I just I

562
00:31:58.541 --> 00:32:03.087
just sort of saw things being made very

563
00:32:03.671 --> 00:32:08.551
difficult for people in our role and I guess I

564
00:32:08.551 --> 00:32:10.386
wanted to think about like how could

565
00:32:11.346 --> 00:32:13.931
how could I add people to the

566
00:32:13.931 --> 00:32:15.475
roster how could I grow the business

567
00:32:17.685 --> 00:32:21.481
but also how could I make that a fair exchange you

568
00:32:21.481 --> 00:32:24.150
know like what can I offer colourists

569
00:32:24.734 --> 00:32:28.071
what can we do together that is

570
00:32:28.071 --> 00:32:32.075
is impossible on our own you know so

571
00:32:32.075 --> 00:32:38.456
I was very very lucky in that I met an incredibly

572
00:32:38.456 --> 00:32:41.459
talented young colourist Abe Wynen

573
00:32:42.835 --> 00:32:46.214
and I had a theory about a model

574
00:32:46.214 --> 00:32:48.966
a business model that was sort of

575
00:32:49.384 --> 00:32:56.182
you know still allowed the colourist to be you know

576
00:32:56.182 --> 00:32:58.267
like their success to be connected to money

577
00:32:58.267 --> 00:33:03.189
to you know to to not be this kind of old model

578
00:33:03.189 --> 00:33:06.776
of like here's a salary and then we're

579
00:33:06.776 --> 00:33:10.321
gonna work you to the bone to make that money back

580
00:33:10.321 --> 00:33:12.615
you know so yeah an experimental model

581
00:33:13.241 --> 00:33:19.956
Abe came on board and this was sort of around

582
00:33:19.956 --> 00:33:22.333
the same time where I took over the business

583
00:33:23.126 --> 00:33:28.506
fully and always going great and then of course

584
00:33:28.506 --> 00:33:33.886
COVID happened about a bit less than a

585
00:33:33.886 --> 00:33:36.514
year after I'd fully taken over so that was fine I

586
00:33:36.514 --> 00:33:39.517
mean look especially in Melbourne where we were

587
00:33:40.476 --> 00:33:42.603
I don't know I think I think in terms of like

588
00:33:42.603 --> 00:33:45.940
lockdowns and you know stopping of work and all

589
00:33:45.940 --> 00:33:49.068
that kind of stuff I think we were one of one of

590
00:33:49.068 --> 00:33:51.028
the more impacted places around the world like

591
00:33:51.028 --> 00:33:55.158
COVID so that was obviously a bit of a setback

592
00:33:55.158 --> 00:33:57.660
you know when you know when you're not allowed

593
00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:00.288
to leave the house you're obviously not shooting tv

594
00:34:00.288 --> 00:34:04.667
commercials but you know we got through that

595
00:34:04.667 --> 00:34:08.880
and we're even able to grow a little bit 

596
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:13.342
adding producers working with two colourists

597
00:34:13.968 --> 00:34:17.305
and just sort of like push things forward from

598
00:34:17.305 --> 00:34:20.767
there the model seemed to be working 

599
00:34:21.976 --> 00:34:27.065
you know Abe was Abe's career was

600
00:34:27.065 --> 00:34:29.692
was just absolutely taking off 

601
00:34:29.901 --> 00:34:34.655
you know I would like to talk about Abe a little

602
00:34:34.655 --> 00:34:37.533
bit just as a sideline because he's

603
00:34:37.533 --> 00:34:41.370
somebody whose work I really admire and he seems

604
00:34:41.370 --> 00:34:44.791
like a really nice person absolutely which I think

605
00:34:44.791 --> 00:34:47.919
goes a long way and he's actually somebody I'd

606
00:34:47.919 --> 00:34:50.755
really like to speak to yes he'd be a great

607
00:34:50.755 --> 00:34:54.300
person to speak to so he's over in Canada now 

608
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:57.929
he's a senior colourist which to be honest

609
00:34:58.012 --> 00:35:00.264
personally is a term I've never liked because it's

610
00:35:00.264 --> 00:35:04.477
a to me it's you know implies a a wise old old

611
00:35:04.811 --> 00:35:08.356
man or woman you know like a Gandalf type you

612
00:35:08.356 --> 00:35:10.525
know like you're shaking your fist at clouds maybe

613
00:35:10.525 --> 00:35:15.822
but I mean hey if you're going to be a senior

614
00:35:15.822 --> 00:35:18.699
colourist I'm pretty sure before he's 30 that's

615
00:35:18.699 --> 00:35:20.743
that's a pretty good that's probably a pretty good

616
00:35:20.743 --> 00:35:23.704
title I know unbelievable I can only think

617
00:35:23.704 --> 00:35:25.998
of one other person who's pulled that off and she

618
00:35:25.998 --> 00:35:29.710
also was a Toronto based colourist ex-melbourne

619
00:35:29.710 --> 00:35:34.132
Toronto based colourist yes exactly yes yes it's

620
00:35:34.132 --> 00:35:36.217
absolutely kicking goals for anyone who

621
00:35:36.217 --> 00:35:39.846
might know the secret code but Abe has recently

622
00:35:39.846 --> 00:35:43.808
taken on the heading up the

623
00:35:44.141 --> 00:35:47.687
Colour Society International Canada chapter yes

624
00:35:47.687 --> 00:35:49.105
yeah with Eric with Eric Whipp another

625
00:35:49.272 --> 00:35:53.442
another guy good guy to be hanging out with yes 

626
00:35:53.442 --> 00:35:57.905
so congratulations to both of them yes 

627
00:35:58.406 --> 00:36:01.576
and you know congrats Abe if you're listening yeah

628
00:36:01.576 --> 00:36:04.412
for just yeah kicking so many goals I'm really

629
00:36:04.453 --> 00:36:07.582
following with interest all the cool stuff yeah and

630
00:36:07.582 --> 00:36:09.959
incredibly incredibly talented and dedicated

631
00:36:10.251 --> 00:36:16.173
colourist and you know I'm super proud to you

632
00:36:16.173 --> 00:36:20.928
know to have like kind of to work to work

633
00:36:20.928 --> 00:36:23.806
alongside him and to share ideas and to learn from

634
00:36:23.806 --> 00:36:27.768
each other and yeah super proud of everything

635
00:36:27.852 --> 00:36:32.815
he's doing now but yeah so he that was sort of

636
00:36:32.815 --> 00:36:37.028
an experiment that worked you know I had

637
00:36:37.069 --> 00:36:42.074
I had a model that I could see a future in 

638
00:36:42.074 --> 00:36:44.744
and then the next challenge was thinking about

639
00:36:45.620 --> 00:36:49.290
I guess I guess one of the problems of our

640
00:36:49.290 --> 00:36:51.375
industry has always been that it's it's it's

641
00:36:51.375 --> 00:36:53.920
traditionally local right like and that goes back

642
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.672
to the big post house days where 

643
00:36:58.299 --> 00:37:01.636
you know you'd spend a million or two fitting out

644
00:37:01.636 --> 00:37:06.599
of room and people would come to it local

645
00:37:06.766 --> 00:37:11.520
people necessarily would come to it but you know

646
00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:14.607
in you know in a modern world it's interesting

647
00:37:14.607 --> 00:37:16.442
to think about like how you break down those

648
00:37:16.442 --> 00:37:20.154
geographic boundaries of our work right it's

649
00:37:20.154 --> 00:37:23.199
happening organically COVID the COVID time sort of

650
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:28.496
advanced it but we don't have to be limited

651
00:37:29.747 --> 00:37:36.128
by our location anymore either where the

652
00:37:36.128 --> 00:37:38.214
colorist is based where the clients are based

653
00:37:38.464 --> 00:37:41.842
and and as we're learning where the production

654
00:37:41.842 --> 00:37:44.261
team is based versus where the colorist is based

655
00:37:44.804 --> 00:37:50.476
so I spent a lot of time thinking and

656
00:37:50.476 --> 00:37:52.812
planning and building infrastructure that would

657
00:37:52.895 --> 00:37:56.065
again you know like I always wanted this to be

658
00:37:56.065 --> 00:37:59.277
almost a collective right like to

659
00:37:59.694 --> 00:38:02.905
a way of pooling resources pooling connections

660
00:38:02.905 --> 00:38:07.952
pooling influences to sort of be able to

661
00:38:07.952 --> 00:38:10.288
the colors to be able to sort of achieves more than

662
00:38:10.288 --> 00:38:14.417
they could on their own yeah so spent a

663
00:38:14.417 --> 00:38:19.380
lot of time planning workflows and you know kind

664
00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:21.382
of boring database infrastructure and things

665
00:38:21.424 --> 00:38:25.803
like that just just to allow that to work and

666
00:38:25.803 --> 00:38:28.806
it's been you know really thrilling for me to

667
00:38:28.806 --> 00:38:32.476
to see it working that's one of those things

668
00:38:32.476 --> 00:38:36.063
that not every colorist is interested in and it's

669
00:38:36.063 --> 00:38:39.442
something that as a freelancer because I'm tech

670
00:38:39.442 --> 00:38:42.945
savvy to the extent that I need to be but I'm

671
00:38:42.945 --> 00:38:47.867
certainly not excited about SQL databases and you

672
00:38:47.867 --> 00:38:50.619
know it's it's just not a itch that I feel I need

673
00:38:50.661 --> 00:38:53.664
to scratch and I think that's one of the things

674
00:38:53.664 --> 00:38:58.544
that was lost in the the move to freelance was that

675
00:38:58.961 --> 00:39:04.050
IT department that the big facility had that

676
00:39:04.050 --> 00:39:07.178
that could go and glue everything back together

677
00:39:07.178 --> 00:39:11.974
again so you know that is of a huge benefit to

678
00:39:11.974 --> 00:39:16.937
the the less it's not even about technical

679
00:39:17.229 --> 00:39:20.608
aptitude because everyone can do it but it's how

680
00:39:20.608 --> 00:39:23.903
interested you are in it I suppose yeah and if

681
00:39:23.903 --> 00:39:27.615
you're not interested in it then you know to have a

682
00:39:27.615 --> 00:39:29.992
broader team and I know that I certainly

683
00:39:30.493 --> 00:39:34.288
utilize this on our slack channels you know like

684
00:39:34.288 --> 00:39:37.124
hey I want to do this but I have absolutely no

685
00:39:37.124 --> 00:39:39.835
idea how can somebody who's interested in this

686
00:39:39.835 --> 00:39:40.544
stuff give me their

687
00:39:40.544 --> 00:39:43.130
opinion and when you're treating

688
00:39:43.506 --> 00:39:46.384
other colorists as competition instead of

689
00:39:46.384 --> 00:39:50.179
colleagues you don't get that cross pollination

690
00:39:50.471 --> 00:39:54.517
so it is very nice to to shift that thinking a

691
00:39:54.517 --> 00:39:58.145
little bit a pivotal thing for me about that

692
00:39:58.604 --> 00:40:01.232
that type of thinking I think you've talked

693
00:40:01.232 --> 00:40:05.236
about it with a few other people from

694
00:40:05.236 --> 00:40:08.030
Melbourne we have a really good culture here the

695
00:40:08.030 --> 00:40:10.157
colorists we get together once or twice a year

696
00:40:10.241 --> 00:40:12.868
we we drink a little bit too much we have some

697
00:40:12.868 --> 00:40:16.122
nerdy conversations you know we share some

698
00:40:16.122 --> 00:40:19.083
mutual grievances maybe and try not to turn into a

699
00:40:19.083 --> 00:40:24.338
winch fest but yeah we we get together and

700
00:40:24.338 --> 00:40:26.799
we talk and we we we know each other's spaces we

701
00:40:26.799 --> 00:40:33.180
know each other's names and just through that

702
00:40:34.098 --> 00:40:39.019
it really helped me realize that we're not as in

703
00:40:39.019 --> 00:40:41.063
competition with each other as we might think

704
00:40:41.564 --> 00:40:43.357
you know like a lot of it is just sort of the

705
00:40:43.357 --> 00:40:46.068
psychology of a craftsperson right of 

706
00:40:46.652 --> 00:40:49.738
it's almost like the dark side of of appreciating

707
00:40:49.738 --> 00:40:53.159
the craft is that you know you can get jealous

708
00:40:53.242 --> 00:40:54.910
or you can you can see other people getting

709
00:40:54.910 --> 00:40:57.496
opportunities you want and and wonder why it

710
00:40:57.496 --> 00:41:00.958
isn't you or you can see a beautiful piece of work

711
00:41:00.958 --> 00:41:03.085
and you could doubt that you'd ever be able

712
00:41:03.085 --> 00:41:08.924
to do it and just through you know having that

713
00:41:08.924 --> 00:41:12.094
connection to fellow practitioners 

714
00:41:13.179 --> 00:41:15.514
that yeah that was like a big seed in my thinking

715
00:41:15.514 --> 00:41:18.642
because it made me realize that you know

716
00:41:18.642 --> 00:41:21.270
especially in the short-form world right we have we

717
00:41:21.270 --> 00:41:26.066
all have these like intense hard won 

718
00:41:26.317 --> 00:41:28.694
forged in the fire relationships with clients you

719
00:41:28.694 --> 00:41:32.448
know we're we're all people's go-to's you know

720
00:41:32.573 --> 00:41:35.534
like we have we all have clients who trust us

721
00:41:35.534 --> 00:41:39.997
implicitly and you know absolutely 

722
00:41:41.373 --> 00:41:43.709
are at the top of their list for every job you know

723
00:41:43.709 --> 00:41:46.295
because we have the power to stuff up

724
00:41:46.545 --> 00:41:48.547
a project you know like we actually have like a

725
00:41:48.547 --> 00:41:52.468
really a really intense responsibility

726
00:41:52.509 --> 00:41:55.971
sometimes when you think about the labor and the

727
00:41:55.971 --> 00:41:59.141
creativity that's gone into any project that

728
00:41:59.308 --> 00:42:02.728
we get to touch you know just the person hours 

729
00:42:02.728 --> 00:42:06.899
and the care and the sacrifice and

730
00:42:07.566 --> 00:42:11.237
you know we're the ones who are responsible for

731
00:42:11.237 --> 00:42:15.324
making sure all of that turns up on screen right

732
00:42:16.283 --> 00:42:19.036
and and when we're when we're doing well we

733
00:42:19.036 --> 00:42:20.913
actually have the power to sort of amplify that

734
00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:23.624
but at least at least we have the responsibilities

735
00:42:23.624 --> 00:42:25.167
when sure it turns up on screen so I think

736
00:42:25.793 --> 00:42:28.921
I think we all have these like really intense 

737
00:42:28.921 --> 00:42:33.634
trust relationships with our clients and

738
00:42:34.218 --> 00:42:37.471
that when you get a group of colorists together who

739
00:42:37.471 --> 00:42:40.224
are like-minded you know that those

740
00:42:41.350 --> 00:42:43.519
that influence those relationships they kind of

741
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.854
amplify rather than just stacking up on top of

742
00:42:45.854 --> 00:42:50.818
each other yeah and like a lot of that came from

743
00:42:50.818 --> 00:42:53.195
yeah just just those Melbourne meetups with

744
00:42:53.195 --> 00:43:00.244
colorists of yeah of of realizing that we're you

745
00:43:00.244 --> 00:43:02.162
know that there's this kind of solidarity there

746
00:43:02.329 --> 00:43:08.085
that's really nice and it's not something that

747
00:43:08.085 --> 00:43:12.381
we you know for people listening overseas who have

748
00:43:12.798 --> 00:43:16.218
an experience of of still having those

749
00:43:16.218 --> 00:43:18.220
post-facilities or those grading

750
00:43:18.887 --> 00:43:24.226
shops that have a stable of maybe you know 10 local

751
00:43:24.226 --> 00:43:27.229
but possibly 50 international colorists

752
00:43:27.229 --> 00:43:31.150
who are at your fingertips it's it's not

753
00:43:31.150 --> 00:43:35.696
something that in Australia we have anymore 

754
00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:38.866
and I think there are pros and cons of course to

755
00:43:38.866 --> 00:43:44.038
both but it is nice that you know even if you're

756
00:43:44.163 --> 00:43:48.542
not in a facility or if you're working as a

757
00:43:48.542 --> 00:43:51.337
freelancer or maybe you're emerging in your career

758
00:43:52.296 --> 00:43:57.551
you can try to think of of people who are doing

759
00:43:57.551 --> 00:43:59.303
the jobs that you want to be doing

760
00:44:00.054 --> 00:44:04.391
not as somebody who's blocking your ability to

761
00:44:04.391 --> 00:44:08.604
succeed but as somebody who can help you get there

762
00:44:08.771 --> 00:44:11.940
a bit of healthy jealousy a bit of healthy

763
00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:13.942
competition never hurt anybody because it

764
00:44:13.942 --> 00:44:17.279
helps you raise yourself but there's a difference I

765
00:44:17.279 --> 00:44:19.156
think and this is getting a bit philosophical

766
00:44:19.448 --> 00:44:22.743
between going oh gee I wish I did that cool thing

767
00:44:22.743 --> 00:44:25.829
hey well done mate like good job I loved it

768
00:44:26.330 --> 00:44:28.791
there's a difference between that and the moments

769
00:44:28.791 --> 00:44:31.835
that I think we've all had where we're looking at

770
00:44:31.877 --> 00:44:36.382
our work and we're going my god I just have no

771
00:44:36.382 --> 00:44:40.552
place here you know like there's this is terrible

772
00:44:40.761 --> 00:44:44.848
and how could anybody you know possibly want me on

773
00:44:44.848 --> 00:44:48.644
their job and it's and it can be very difficult

774
00:44:48.644 --> 00:44:51.939
to pull yourself out of that spiral when you're

775
00:44:51.939 --> 00:44:54.817
soloed you know when you're just on your own

776
00:44:55.567 --> 00:44:59.029
and and you've got no one who you can say hey

777
00:44:59.029 --> 00:45:04.451
like sos I feel like shit you know I need I need

778
00:45:04.451 --> 00:45:08.497
to remember why we're all doing this crazy thing

779
00:45:08.497 --> 00:45:11.875
that we do yeah absolutely so mental health shout

780
00:45:11.875 --> 00:45:15.045
out there but it's just better together I think

781
00:45:15.045 --> 00:45:17.965
yeah yeah and and I think I think it's it's it's

782
00:45:17.965 --> 00:45:19.925
not just colorist I think it's quite common across

783
00:45:19.925 --> 00:45:24.430
like most creative industries or practices

784
00:45:26.056 --> 00:45:28.559
there's certain core things like you lack

785
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.561
perspective on your own work or you have too

786
00:45:30.561 --> 00:45:32.646
much perspective on your own work you know you're

787
00:45:32.646 --> 00:45:33.981
just dealing with a different set of information

788
00:45:33.981 --> 00:45:37.526
to everyone else the comparisons are always tricky

789
00:45:37.526 --> 00:45:42.614
you know insecurity can manifest as jealousy

790
00:45:43.073 --> 00:45:52.666
or yeah or resentment you know very early

791
00:45:52.666 --> 00:45:54.960
on I identified like I have this I have

792
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:56.837
this emotional arc about my work which which

793
00:45:56.837 --> 00:45:58.797
actually doesn't really happen anymore but in

794
00:45:58.797 --> 00:46:01.091
the early days you know it was very predictable

795
00:46:01.091 --> 00:46:05.387
about four o'clock I'd be thinking okay maybe I

796
00:46:05.387 --> 00:46:07.347
can talk to my producer maybe I can start again

797
00:46:07.347 --> 00:46:08.974
tomorrow we'll just throw the whole thing out you

798
00:46:09.016 --> 00:46:12.895
know like like hard work about that time that's how

799
00:46:12.895 --> 00:46:15.355
I would feel and then you know the next day

800
00:46:15.355 --> 00:46:17.858
I'd feel like oh I barely got away with that and

801
00:46:17.858 --> 00:46:22.571
then down the track I'd feel like oh maybe I did

802
00:46:22.571 --> 00:46:24.907
get away with it and then three months later I'd

803
00:46:24.907 --> 00:46:27.075
look at it and I'd go oh that's pretty how did I

804
00:46:27.242 --> 00:46:29.411
how did I do that I don't know how I did that you

805
00:46:29.411 --> 00:46:32.080
know and so you just identify your emotional arc

806
00:46:33.499 --> 00:46:36.043
and that can help you just put it out of your minds

807
00:46:36.043 --> 00:46:37.711
you know because it all goes back to just

808
00:46:38.086 --> 00:46:41.298
keeping on doing the work you know and that idea

809
00:46:41.298 --> 00:46:43.425
of getting away with it I've heard that from

810
00:46:44.259 --> 00:46:47.888
other colorists as well that I've assisted and yeah

811
00:46:47.888 --> 00:46:50.057
I'm not I'm not sure how many people have

812
00:46:50.057 --> 00:46:52.559
that feeling of like they've just robbed a building

813
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:54.770
as they leave this session but you know

814
00:46:54.770 --> 00:46:59.191
we've definitely all been there we are lucky in in

815
00:46:59.191 --> 00:47:02.027
our work that there is a tradition of limited

816
00:47:02.110 --> 00:47:04.863
time I think right yes I think that is actually a

817
00:47:04.863 --> 00:47:08.033
blessing although sometimes it can not be but 

818
00:47:09.284 --> 00:47:13.163
you know the fact that it's like do what you can

819
00:47:13.163 --> 00:47:16.291
given the circstances given the you know the

820
00:47:16.291 --> 00:47:18.794
individual problems and the personalities of every

821
00:47:18.794 --> 00:47:21.255
job do what you can make it look better

822
00:47:23.090 --> 00:47:26.051
and get it done by five o'clock you know or six

823
00:47:26.051 --> 00:47:28.262
o'clock or you know maybe seven sometimes but you

824
00:47:28.554 --> 00:47:32.015
you know it sort of I also freeze you from like

825
00:47:32.015 --> 00:47:34.434
having to do a perfect job you know like you

826
00:47:35.102 --> 00:47:36.812
you've got these boundaries and you've got to

827
00:47:36.812 --> 00:47:39.606
you've got to do it within those boundaries and

828
00:47:40.482 --> 00:47:42.776
yeah I think it's actually a blessing good

829
00:47:42.776 --> 00:47:45.696
pressure yeah as well like I know that I'm

830
00:47:45.696 --> 00:47:48.490
certainly all revved up and ready to go when I know

831
00:47:48.490 --> 00:47:50.367
that I've got a four-hour session and I've

832
00:47:50.367 --> 00:47:52.869
got more to do than I can possibly do in four hours

833
00:47:52.869 --> 00:47:54.788
and then somehow somehow you called off

834
00:47:54.788 --> 00:47:58.333
you know caffeinated and I am feeling good I am

835
00:47:58.333 --> 00:48:01.420
like we're gonna smash this and if you don't think

836
00:48:01.628 --> 00:48:04.298
too hard sometimes you get out of your own way when

837
00:48:04.298 --> 00:48:05.841
you just have to get it done

838
00:48:06.675 --> 00:48:09.136
sometimes you go you know I certainly know that

839
00:48:09.136 --> 00:48:11.179
when I've got all the time in the world

840
00:48:11.221 --> 00:48:13.390
I'm there doing what Dave McClellan

841
00:48:13.390 --> 00:48:15.350
calls fiddling yourself into a corner

842
00:48:16.768 --> 00:48:19.813
which you know I think is it's really stuck with me

843
00:48:19.813 --> 00:48:22.733
yes you just get out get out of your own

844
00:48:22.733 --> 00:48:25.235
way and let your hands do it like you're an amazing

845
00:48:25.235 --> 00:48:27.237
surgeon who doesn't even have to think

846
00:48:27.279 --> 00:48:30.157
anymore just put your playlist on and go there's a

847
00:48:30.157 --> 00:48:31.825
there's a lot that's been written you know

848
00:48:32.200 --> 00:48:35.370
about the flow state and I think we get we get

849
00:48:35.370 --> 00:48:37.914
to spend a lot of time in that state right like

850
00:48:37.914 --> 00:48:42.919
I love it possibly I mean I don't know I don't

851
00:48:42.919 --> 00:48:44.713
know what it feels like to be a painter or to be a

852
00:48:44.713 --> 00:48:48.216
sculptor you know but I imagine we get a little

853
00:48:48.216 --> 00:48:51.887
taste of what that's like you know it has our

854
00:48:51.928 --> 00:48:54.222
jobs you know and we're getting paid for it it's

855
00:48:54.222 --> 00:48:55.932
pretty incredible like we're quite lucky

856
00:48:56.475 --> 00:48:59.519
do you have any just speaking of flow states do

857
00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.357
you have any sort of hacks or techniques that

858
00:49:03.357 --> 00:49:06.443
you use to get into that flow state because I know

859
00:49:06.443 --> 00:49:10.614
that when you've got a certain time

860
00:49:10.739 --> 00:49:13.659
restriction on your session you can't muck around

861
00:49:13.659 --> 00:49:16.244
for three hours and then get into it you have to

862
00:49:16.244 --> 00:49:19.164
get into it I actually actually think that the time

863
00:49:19.164 --> 00:49:22.084
restriction is the the best one I used to be

864
00:49:22.084 --> 00:49:25.087
a classic procrastinator a creative procrastinator

865
00:49:25.087 --> 00:49:28.757
you know all of my school projects were the

866
00:49:28.757 --> 00:49:32.260
night before and you know I was somehow able to

867
00:49:32.260 --> 00:49:36.139
pull it off and do okay but I think color taught

868
00:49:36.139 --> 00:49:41.478
me how not to be a procrastinator because for

869
00:49:41.478 --> 00:49:43.146
one it's very hard to procrastinate when someone

870
00:49:43.146 --> 00:49:45.607
is literally in the room with you you know like

871
00:49:45.607 --> 00:49:48.819
there's not a lot of like doing your usual lap of

872
00:49:48.819 --> 00:49:50.821
the websites you like to check out you can get away

873
00:49:50.821 --> 00:49:52.406
with when when people are in the room and

874
00:49:52.406 --> 00:49:57.452
expecting results yeah so I think the the time

875
00:49:57.452 --> 00:50:01.748
limits actually really help music is is a great

876
00:50:02.124 --> 00:50:04.793
tool and to be honest it's probably one of the best

877
00:50:04.793 --> 00:50:06.712
things about our jobs right like I always

878
00:50:06.712 --> 00:50:09.631
feel for editors you know we we actually get to

879
00:50:09.631 --> 00:50:11.675
listen to music while we work which is incredibly

880
00:50:12.175 --> 00:50:15.470
lucky and we also get to inflict our taste in

881
00:50:15.470 --> 00:50:17.973
music on other people which is always fun too so

882
00:50:18.306 --> 00:50:21.935
certainly there's sort of different types of

883
00:50:21.935 --> 00:50:25.063
music I go to at different stages of the process

884
00:50:25.188 --> 00:50:27.816
different times of day you know it could get

885
00:50:27.816 --> 00:50:30.402
pretty intense towards the end that little last

886
00:50:30.402 --> 00:50:33.488
push before getting render what's intense what's

887
00:50:33.488 --> 00:50:36.616
intense for you oh I mean it can get pretty intense

888
00:50:36.658 --> 00:50:41.079
like like like very very aggressive rapping but I

889
00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:43.498
have to just make sure everyone in the room

890
00:50:43.540 --> 00:50:45.667
knows I'm not necessarily agreeing with the

891
00:50:45.667 --> 00:50:50.422
sentiments you know like Kanye said it not you

892
00:50:50.422 --> 00:50:52.716
well I can't Kanye might be a little bit of a

893
00:50:52.716 --> 00:50:57.012
bridge too far these days but yeah or like

894
00:50:57.053 --> 00:51:01.600
some fairly intense electronic music yeah you

895
00:51:01.600 --> 00:51:03.143
know the start of the day can be kind of

896
00:51:03.185 --> 00:51:08.440
instrental or piano or but yeah I think that's

897
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.735
always fun too the the room management

898
00:51:11.735 --> 00:51:14.029
side of the work can also help you get into that

899
00:51:14.029 --> 00:51:17.908
flow state of the actual you know work on the tools

900
00:51:17.991 --> 00:51:22.913
I would encourage you to make a crayon Spotify

901
00:51:22.913 --> 00:51:25.791
playlist yeah or crayon mixtape maybe you know

902
00:51:25.791 --> 00:51:29.002
yes I would love to hear what everyone else is

903
00:51:29.002 --> 00:51:30.670
listening to in their session oh look you could

904
00:51:30.712 --> 00:51:32.631
always make a film and I'll grade it for you that's

905
00:51:32.631 --> 00:51:36.301
that's that's an option I want to put

906
00:51:36.301 --> 00:51:38.720
that out there to anyone listening as well if you

907
00:51:38.720 --> 00:51:42.641
have a really great grading playlist I would

908
00:51:42.641 --> 00:51:44.935
love to know all about it because I'm the same as

909
00:51:44.935 --> 00:51:48.772
Jan and I I turn to music for that flow state and

910
00:51:48.897 --> 00:51:51.566
I'm always looking for something new because I

911
00:51:51.566 --> 00:51:54.820
often will reuse the same playlists just to get

912
00:51:54.903 --> 00:51:58.532
into the flow state there's one called Unwind 80s

913
00:51:58.532 --> 00:52:02.077
that I think I must listen to like daily for maybe

914
00:52:02.160 --> 00:52:06.081
five years now yeah that is just way too too many

915
00:52:06.081 --> 00:52:08.875
80s songs so I'm looking for something new everyone

916
00:52:10.168 --> 00:52:13.547
I mean these days I have like an Apple TV on my

917
00:52:13.547 --> 00:52:15.590
client monitor and I will quite often

918
00:52:16.424 --> 00:52:19.845
launch into you know a history of the best music

919
00:52:19.845 --> 00:52:23.473
videos of the past 20 years or you know if anyone

920
00:52:23.598 --> 00:52:26.059
shows a vague interest in skateboarding it's like

921
00:52:26.059 --> 00:52:28.645
I'll check out these skate videos but 

922
00:52:29.563 --> 00:52:34.651
you know I think I think it's they're all like your

923
00:52:34.651 --> 00:52:36.862
clients should should enjoy coming to see you

924
00:52:36.945 --> 00:52:38.780
right like they should have a good time and you

925
00:52:38.780 --> 00:52:41.283
should gel with people and you should be able to

926
00:52:41.283 --> 00:52:43.618
talk about the references they're talking about and

927
00:52:43.618 --> 00:52:50.375
you know photographers filmmakers TV

928
00:52:50.584 --> 00:52:56.089
shows music culture art you know my favorite

929
00:52:56.089 --> 00:52:57.465
references are when people talk about

930
00:52:57.465 --> 00:53:02.053
painters or sculptors or you know because

931
00:53:02.053 --> 00:53:04.681
it's it's it's not specific and it is at the same

932
00:53:04.723 --> 00:53:09.269
time you know so I think yeah you've got to be a

933
00:53:09.269 --> 00:53:11.521
good host as a colorist as well that's really

934
00:53:11.605 --> 00:53:15.233
important and you've got a painting and

935
00:53:15.233 --> 00:53:18.653
photography as references is I love them because

936
00:53:18.653 --> 00:53:22.657
they're such distilled ideas you know when you're

937
00:53:22.657 --> 00:53:26.578
given like a feature film as a reference

938
00:53:27.162 --> 00:53:29.581
and it's like well which shot you know which scene

939
00:53:29.581 --> 00:53:31.875
yeah how specific are you being you know

940
00:53:31.875 --> 00:53:34.544
like are we whereas if you get like a painting you

941
00:53:34.544 --> 00:53:38.548
can be like well I can see exactly what you're

942
00:53:38.548 --> 00:53:41.843
after here and we can look at you know you can go

943
00:53:41.843 --> 00:53:44.137
from there you can go outwards instead of going

944
00:53:44.220 --> 00:53:48.099
from something large back in yeah yeah whenever I'm

945
00:53:48.099 --> 00:53:52.228
given stills like TVs or TV shows or

946
00:53:52.270 --> 00:53:55.440
movies stills I'm always trying to extract ideas

947
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:58.276
from them I always prefer it where someone

948
00:53:58.276 --> 00:54:01.321
will give me you know a folder full of images or a

949
00:54:01.321 --> 00:54:04.741
pdf you know with with a couple of things

950
00:54:04.783 --> 00:54:07.202
tiled and then you can kind of navigate them as a

951
00:54:07.202 --> 00:54:11.665
story and take ideas from them because I mean

952
00:54:11.665 --> 00:54:16.294
this this this circles around nicely to a very

953
00:54:16.294 --> 00:54:19.089
antique look right like I don't like the idea of

954
00:54:19.089 --> 00:54:23.385
looks in grading you know interesting I think the

955
00:54:23.385 --> 00:54:25.971
look is a result rather than

956
00:54:27.514 --> 00:54:30.475
an element of the process you know if that makes

957
00:54:30.475 --> 00:54:33.812
sense you know it's almost like

958
00:54:33.853 --> 00:54:38.650
if you're sort of I don't know I feel like for my

959
00:54:38.650 --> 00:54:42.237
work if I'm if I'm thinking about a look

960
00:54:43.154 --> 00:54:45.532
it's like I've got hold of the wrong side of the

961
00:54:45.532 --> 00:54:48.243
equation or something you know to me

962
00:54:51.246 --> 00:54:55.875
to me it's like a look is sort of like it's your

963
00:54:55.875 --> 00:54:59.838
taste applied to the project in an appropriate

964
00:55:00.046 --> 00:55:06.845
way if that makes sense and you know you can

965
00:55:06.845 --> 00:55:10.056
certainly have elements or ingredients you know

966
00:55:10.056 --> 00:55:12.267
you can you can talk about contrast and you can

967
00:55:12.267 --> 00:55:15.437
talk about saturation and density of colors and

968
00:55:15.437 --> 00:55:19.733
you can talk about techniques and approaches you

969
00:55:19.733 --> 00:55:27.407
know but the way like my favorite my favorite

970
00:55:27.407 --> 00:55:32.912
projects are the ones where my work disappears into

971
00:55:32.912 --> 00:55:35.832
the project does that make sense where

972
00:55:36.291 --> 00:55:39.252
no one's looking at and saying like what a

973
00:55:39.252 --> 00:55:42.005
beautiful grade I mean maybe they might say that

974
00:55:42.005 --> 00:55:45.341
to me if I'm lucky but you know just being

975
00:55:45.341 --> 00:55:48.303
polite but you know like like good color grading

976
00:55:48.720 --> 00:55:51.931
really looks like great cinematography you know it

977
00:55:51.931 --> 00:55:56.644
looks like great filmmaking you know so I

978
00:55:56.644 --> 00:56:03.026
think I'm always very wary of style you know sort

979
00:56:03.026 --> 00:56:09.157
of applied on top of things right I mean yeah

980
00:56:09.616 --> 00:56:12.452
I would love to explore this a little bit further

981
00:56:12.452 --> 00:56:15.830
because I think that it's like a very

982
00:56:17.373 --> 00:56:22.128
oh a philosophy based kind of thing but also like

983
00:56:22.128 --> 00:56:23.922
super tangible to what we do

984
00:56:24.297 --> 00:56:26.758
and it's not something that I've really been

985
00:56:26.758 --> 00:56:29.594
able to have a huge conversation about before

986
00:56:30.929 --> 00:56:35.391
often I will grade under a look so I'll have

987
00:56:35.391 --> 00:56:38.269
everything grouped and that group is my look

988
00:56:38.269 --> 00:56:41.940
and I even call it look and I'll have you know I'll

989
00:56:41.940 --> 00:56:45.777
look at the references and I'll use a few tools

990
00:56:46.152 --> 00:56:50.532
to generate like a contrast level across the board

991
00:56:50.532 --> 00:56:54.244
and maybe like a certain treatment of

992
00:56:54.244 --> 00:56:57.914
a primary like okay for this look we've got a deep

993
00:56:57.914 --> 00:57:03.044
filmy kind of ectochromey red but only in the

994
00:57:03.044 --> 00:57:05.130
reds because it's digital and we can do whatever

995
00:57:05.130 --> 00:57:09.259
the hell we want so you know then maybe I've got

996
00:57:09.425 --> 00:57:12.053
instead of that kind of like yellow green that you

997
00:57:12.053 --> 00:57:14.264
would get an ectochrome maybe I keep like a nice

998
00:57:14.472 --> 00:57:18.351
fresh green that I'll use a few nodes or a layer

999
00:57:18.351 --> 00:57:23.273
or two to give us that look and then

1000
00:57:23.273 --> 00:57:27.527
underneath that then I'll do the grade basically

1001
00:57:27.527 --> 00:57:31.781
yeah yeah and I'll balance and I'll match and I

1002
00:57:31.781 --> 00:57:34.075
might be pushing it in the wrong direction to make

1003
00:57:34.075 --> 00:57:36.828
it look right under the look if you were to

1004
00:57:36.828 --> 00:57:38.538
take the look off you'd probably go oh my goodness

1005
00:57:38.538 --> 00:57:40.582
what on earth is that terrible looking thing

1006
00:57:41.332 --> 00:57:43.418
but because it's all graded under the look it's all

1007
00:57:43.418 --> 00:57:46.796
integrated look I'm doing the same I'm doing

1008
00:57:46.796 --> 00:57:48.423
the same thing I'm just probably using different

1009
00:57:48.423 --> 00:57:53.052
terminology but so the way I think about it is

1010
00:57:55.263 --> 00:57:59.934
gosh how do I think about it I okay so like as a as

1011
00:57:59.934 --> 00:58:02.437
a as a baby colorist I think you know your

1012
00:58:02.437 --> 00:58:07.150
first aha moment right is when you realize that to

1013
00:58:07.150 --> 00:58:09.819
get a bunch of stuff to look the same you need

1014
00:58:09.819 --> 00:58:12.989
to do different things to all of it right like we

1015
00:58:12.989 --> 00:58:16.242
all start out we all start out with looks right

1016
00:58:16.618 --> 00:58:21.372
you know applying a transformation across a

1017
00:58:21.372 --> 00:58:23.458
scene or across an entire project

1018
00:58:24.334 --> 00:58:27.462
and then you know and then as a baby colorist you

1019
00:58:27.462 --> 00:58:29.380
then discover like oh okay I've got to go on I've

1020
00:58:29.380 --> 00:58:33.426
got to go in and balance it all so it makes sense

1021
00:58:33.426 --> 00:58:36.054
you know and then you start to realize like oh

1022
00:58:36.179 --> 00:58:41.267
okay this scene needs its own treatment it's it's

1023
00:58:41.267 --> 00:58:45.730
underwater it's it's a cool moonlit night it's

1024
00:58:46.814 --> 00:58:50.526
you know and before you know it you're sort of

1025
00:58:50.526 --> 00:58:53.738
doing all kinds of different things to all kinds

1026
00:58:53.738 --> 00:58:57.617
of different shots or scenes or elements you

1027
00:58:57.617 --> 00:59:00.995
know to get them towards this ideal thing

1028
00:59:01.704 --> 00:59:05.083
that is the result you know so

1029
00:59:05.083 --> 00:59:09.420
I always try and work from sort of

1030
00:59:10.672 --> 00:59:13.633
the decisions of of broadest impact down to the

1031
00:59:13.633 --> 00:59:16.177
small details but I'm also not scared of small

1032
00:59:16.177 --> 00:59:18.846
details like I spend a lot of time on small details

1033
00:59:18.846 --> 00:59:23.768
so you know like when I'm starting

1034
00:59:23.768 --> 00:59:26.354
a project probably the first decision I'll make

1035
00:59:26.354 --> 00:59:29.148
it's akin to a look but it's sort of I think of

1036
00:59:29.190 --> 00:59:31.401
it as the transform like how are we getting from

1037
00:59:31.401 --> 00:59:36.489
what was shot to a result that has the

1038
00:59:36.489 --> 00:59:40.159
characteristics we want in broad strokes you know

1039
00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:44.289
and then I'll usually start trying that out on

1040
00:59:44.289 --> 00:59:48.001
different shots refining things again broad

1041
00:59:48.001 --> 00:59:51.587
strokes and then you know then you go through

1042
00:59:51.587 --> 00:59:54.507
and you start balancing things underneath that 

1043
00:59:54.507 --> 00:59:58.303
but a lot of a lot of what I do I think is very

1044
00:59:58.803 --> 01:00:02.307
photographic and subtractive right is the word I've

1045
01:00:02.307 --> 01:00:03.975
been thinking of a lot about lately I mean

1046
01:00:03.975 --> 01:00:07.186
there's you know like the apocryphal story of of

1047
01:00:07.186 --> 01:00:09.022
like you know how do you make a sculpture of

1048
01:00:09.022 --> 01:00:10.773
someone will you take away all the bits that aren't

1049
01:00:10.773 --> 01:00:12.567
the sculpture but I do think about that

1050
01:00:12.567 --> 01:00:20.283
in my work a lot like I am not scared to jump

1051
01:00:20.283 --> 01:00:22.952
straight in and put a tiny window in the corner

1052
01:00:23.036 --> 01:00:26.331
of frame to move something that is very distracting

1053
01:00:26.331 --> 01:00:28.875
and very much dragging the attention

1054
01:00:29.792 --> 01:00:32.378
in the wrong place you know 

1055
01:00:35.590 --> 01:00:39.927
you know I try these days instead of bringing

1056
01:00:39.927 --> 01:00:43.723
things up you know to be taking things away if

1057
01:00:43.723 --> 01:00:47.143
that makes sense and then the other thing I'm

1058
01:00:47.143 --> 01:00:48.686
always thinking about like I think color grading

1059
01:00:48.686 --> 01:00:51.647
is this dance between you know especially in this

1060
01:00:51.647 --> 01:00:53.316
modern era where you know we understand

1061
01:00:53.316 --> 01:00:56.319
color management and we understand color spaces and

1062
01:00:56.319 --> 01:00:58.988
you know a lot of that kind of color

1063
01:00:58.988 --> 01:01:02.241
science fundamentals you know it's a dance between

1064
01:01:03.910 --> 01:01:11.000
you know people in a room under light over time

1065
01:01:11.292 --> 01:01:17.048
you know and you use that to

1066
01:01:17.215 --> 01:01:20.343
you use that to help things match essentially you

1067
01:01:20.343 --> 01:01:22.345
know you you I mean C-mode is one of my favorite

1068
01:01:22.345 --> 01:01:24.013
buttons in Resolve which is where it sorts the

1069
01:01:24.013 --> 01:01:28.226
timeline you know into you know the you

1070
01:01:28.226 --> 01:01:30.520
know the project order into the shooting order

1071
01:01:30.520 --> 01:01:32.897
essentially and you can use that to kind of

1072
01:01:33.773 --> 01:01:36.109
oh okay that's why that shot doesn't match it was

1073
01:01:36.109 --> 01:01:38.194
actually shot at the end of the scene where the

1074
01:01:38.194 --> 01:01:40.822
life had changed but then at the same time you've

1075
01:01:40.822 --> 01:01:42.323
got to be comfortable throwing out that

1076
01:01:42.323 --> 01:01:46.160
relationship completely when it makes sense you

1077
01:01:46.160 --> 01:01:49.956
know for the story for the projects and

1078
01:01:49.956 --> 01:01:56.796
especially for the relationship like I think I

1079
01:01:56.796 --> 01:01:58.423
think fundamentally what we're doing

1080
01:01:59.257 --> 01:02:02.885
is is about relationships between shots you know

1081
01:02:02.885 --> 01:02:04.929
like I think I think if you imagine

1082
01:02:05.012 --> 01:02:08.099
you've always got to remember that this thing will

1083
01:02:08.099 --> 01:02:10.017
be watched sequentially and that we're the

1084
01:02:10.017 --> 01:02:13.354
ones you know jumping around and looping and 

1085
01:02:13.354 --> 01:02:15.565
jumping from the start of the scene to the end of

1086
01:02:15.565 --> 01:02:18.192
the scene you've got to remember that everything we

1087
01:02:18.192 --> 01:02:22.321
work on will be watched linearly and so I always

1088
01:02:22.321 --> 01:02:26.117
kind of imagine this little diminishing graph of

1089
01:02:26.117 --> 01:02:29.495
relationships between the shot I'm working on and

1090
01:02:29.537 --> 01:02:32.582
the shots around it if that makes sense you know

1091
01:02:32.582 --> 01:02:34.792
you can you can you can feel the importance of

1092
01:02:34.792 --> 01:02:39.130
matching kind of trailing off either side of it 

1093
01:02:39.130 --> 01:02:41.632
yeah so I mean I think I think that's something

1094
01:02:42.008 --> 01:02:46.012
I think about a lot is is context and relationships

1095
01:02:46.012 --> 01:02:49.390
but ultimately the big thing I'm always

1096
01:02:49.390 --> 01:02:52.310
thinking about is story right like yeah I'm not

1097
01:02:52.310 --> 01:02:54.896
actually a particularly visual person I've been

1098
01:02:55.104 --> 01:02:59.525
in these visual fields my whole life but I'm you

1099
01:02:59.525 --> 01:03:01.986
know I'm very narrative based I'm very word based

1100
01:03:02.111 --> 01:03:07.992
so I think story is like a superpower as a

1101
01:03:07.992 --> 01:03:13.706
colorist understanding filmmaking understanding

1102
01:03:13.831 --> 01:03:16.083
the language of cinema understanding the language

1103
01:03:16.083 --> 01:03:21.422
of editing understanding composition and color and

1104
01:03:22.048 --> 01:03:24.217
you know all this great stuff that we we absorb

1105
01:03:24.217 --> 01:03:26.177
from the other other craft disciplines

1106
01:03:27.428 --> 01:03:29.555
that can actually be your superpower as a colorist

1107
01:03:29.555 --> 01:03:32.600
because generally that's the language

1108
01:03:33.518 --> 01:03:36.437
that cinematographers and directors think and speak

1109
01:03:36.437 --> 01:03:40.149
in if that makes sense so as a colorist

1110
01:03:40.566 --> 01:03:43.444
if you can understand that if you can read that if

1111
01:03:43.444 --> 01:03:48.616
you can speak that then you know you'll have

1112
01:03:48.658 --> 01:03:52.078
collaborators for life right because you they might

1113
01:03:52.078 --> 01:03:53.663
think of you as a technician and all of a

1114
01:03:53.663 --> 01:03:55.831
sudden you're a proper collaborator you know like

1115
01:03:55.831 --> 01:03:59.544
you are invested in the same things as they are

1116
01:03:59.544 --> 01:04:01.254
and you're making decisions for the same reasons

1117
01:04:01.254 --> 01:04:03.839
that they are you know so I think that's story is

1118
01:04:03.839 --> 01:04:06.175
kind of a superpower so just watch a lot of films

1119
01:04:06.175 --> 01:04:11.597
you know I love that so what I'm what I'm seeing

1120
01:04:12.265 --> 01:04:16.352
and and I think this is very much a you thing

1121
01:04:16.352 --> 01:04:22.441
overall is that it's a very pragmatic approach

1122
01:04:22.775 --> 01:04:27.613
to the shot where maybe if you if you looked at it

1123
01:04:27.613 --> 01:04:29.740
as like oh but there's a look for this whole

1124
01:04:29.740 --> 01:04:34.161
thing so this shot needs to have cool shadows and

1125
01:04:34.161 --> 01:04:36.998
warm highlights but that's not actually serving

1126
01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:40.751
the story or that doesn't look good on that shot

1127
01:04:40.751 --> 01:04:45.047
that you're willing to sort of throw out the look

1128
01:04:45.339 --> 01:04:51.637
and serve the story serve the serve the shot as

1129
01:04:51.637 --> 01:04:54.223
long as there's a coherence and a thru line

1130
01:04:54.223 --> 01:04:59.103
that you can that you can weave so maybe that's

1131
01:04:59.103 --> 01:05:03.274
something in the contrast or maybe it's a

1132
01:05:03.274 --> 01:05:07.028
particular color that can take you through from

1133
01:05:07.028 --> 01:05:10.823
shot a to shot b over to shot c even if they have

1134
01:05:10.823 --> 01:05:14.744
different really different ways of of getting to

1135
01:05:14.744 --> 01:05:17.830
that end result yeah absolutely not going to be

1136
01:05:17.830 --> 01:05:22.376
limited by a workflow and go well computer says no

1137
01:05:22.376 --> 01:05:25.212
that's it no I mean no one looks at your resolve

1138
01:05:25.212 --> 01:05:30.384
projects you know like once it's done it technique

1139
01:05:30.384 --> 01:05:37.600
and neatness and proper workflow and order of

1140
01:05:37.600 --> 01:05:41.020
operations all of that stuff matters a lot right up

1141
01:05:41.020 --> 01:05:43.689
to the point where it doesn't you know and so

1142
01:05:44.523 --> 01:05:48.986
I remember spending you know a fairly tortured

1143
01:05:48.986 --> 01:05:51.197
period early on like wanting to do everything

1144
01:05:51.322 --> 01:05:55.159
properly wanting to do everything properly and

1145
01:05:55.159 --> 01:06:00.289
you know I remember I'd often I did a lot of

1146
01:06:00.456 --> 01:06:04.460
surf projects and things like that and so you

1147
01:06:04.460 --> 01:06:07.213
know you'd often encounter footage underwater and

1148
01:06:07.922 --> 01:06:10.841
footage underwater it never works with a look you

1149
01:06:10.841 --> 01:06:14.637
know like it it is you just have to grade it you

1150
01:06:14.637 --> 01:06:18.516
know the the person in one shot can be 10

1151
01:06:18.516 --> 01:06:20.476
centimeters further away from the camera and

1152
01:06:20.476 --> 01:06:22.478
the color of their skin completely changes it's

1153
01:06:22.478 --> 01:06:24.772
just how water works you know and so like

1154
01:06:25.773 --> 01:06:28.150
a lot of that water stuff taught me that there are

1155
01:06:28.150 --> 01:06:30.611
times when you just have to chuck it out

1156
01:06:31.529 --> 01:06:34.323
and put some nodes in a row you know and that's not

1157
01:06:34.323 --> 01:06:39.245
cheating or lesser or a bad workflow

1158
01:06:39.954 --> 01:06:42.873
you know you're working on images and the images in

1159
01:06:42.873 --> 01:06:45.459
the order that they're going to be seen like

1160
01:06:45.459 --> 01:06:49.547
that's the ultimate result you know so yeah don't

1161
01:06:49.547 --> 01:06:51.549
be afraid to sort of chuck it all out

1162
01:06:51.549 --> 01:06:54.385
when you need to you know I think that's great it's

1163
01:06:54.385 --> 01:06:56.929
sort of that whole thing of learn the

1164
01:06:56.929 --> 01:07:01.392
rules and then break them certainly know why

1165
01:07:01.392 --> 01:07:05.604
it's important to have one contrast curve or one

1166
01:07:05.646 --> 01:07:10.025
transform across the board but remember that it's

1167
01:07:10.025 --> 01:07:12.945
about your eyes and it's about what

1168
01:07:13.571 --> 01:07:16.073
the audience is seeing at the end of the day it's

1169
01:07:16.073 --> 01:07:20.494
not about how clever you might be as a colorist

1170
01:07:20.494 --> 01:07:26.417
and all of those are really important philosophies

1171
01:07:26.417 --> 01:07:28.544
that you have drank the Kool-Aid for

1172
01:07:29.211 --> 01:07:32.423
you know just because that's the style at the

1173
01:07:32.423 --> 01:07:36.343
time it might not be it might not be what's

1174
01:07:36.343 --> 01:07:39.889
appropriate for the image so I think that's

1175
01:07:39.889 --> 01:07:42.057
great advice to anybody and I know that I can

1176
01:07:42.057 --> 01:07:45.186
certainly get myself wrapped up in but like oh what

1177
01:07:45.186 --> 01:07:48.272
if you know they cut another version

1178
01:07:48.689 --> 01:07:52.234
and the shots are in a different order and I better

1179
01:07:52.234 --> 01:07:54.987
make sure that they match even if it's

1180
01:07:55.029 --> 01:07:58.365
making one shot look less aesthetically pleasing on

1181
01:07:58.365 --> 01:08:01.327
its own I better really make sure that you know

1182
01:08:01.535 --> 01:08:06.373
shot two matches shot 47 just in case I mean

1183
01:08:06.373 --> 01:08:08.083
look sometimes you do have to kill your darlings

1184
01:08:08.083 --> 01:08:11.003
you know like sometimes the most beautiful shot in

1185
01:08:11.003 --> 01:08:14.173
a scene needs to come down a bit to be closer to

1186
01:08:15.090 --> 01:08:17.718
you know the one that's not so great but yeah I

1187
01:08:17.718 --> 01:08:20.513
mean one of my least favorite things is just

1188
01:08:20.513 --> 01:08:22.973
being given a bunch of footage out of context and

1189
01:08:22.973 --> 01:08:25.351
saying like great this it's like well the reel

1190
01:08:26.101 --> 01:08:30.314
yeah like how well why like I can yeah I mean okay

1191
01:08:30.314 --> 01:08:32.107
it's all a bit magenta I can sort that out

1192
01:08:32.107 --> 01:08:34.193
but that's not really what I'm interested in doing

1193
01:08:34.193 --> 01:08:36.278
right I want to make these images sort of speak

1194
01:08:36.278 --> 01:08:39.657
to each other and if they're not in order how can

1195
01:08:39.657 --> 01:08:42.868
you do that you know it's very it's impossible

1196
01:08:43.077 --> 01:08:45.204
you know like you don't have those relationships

1197
01:08:45.204 --> 01:08:47.164
and that's kind of one of the most important

1198
01:08:47.414 --> 01:08:50.584
things and one of the things that we haven't

1199
01:08:50.584 --> 01:08:52.920
mentioned but is really implicit in everything

1200
01:08:52.920 --> 01:08:55.089
that we're just talking about is that Dan a

1201
01:08:55.089 --> 01:08:59.927
majority of the work that you do is in the TVC

1202
01:09:00.427 --> 01:09:07.101
space where you have the time to finesse one shot

1203
01:09:07.101 --> 01:09:12.314
and and really work it yes I

1204
01:09:13.107 --> 01:09:15.609
definitely came up sort of mostly doing short form

1205
01:09:15.609 --> 01:09:20.114
yeah I remember you do you do crossover now

1206
01:09:20.239 --> 01:09:22.324
oh yeah yeah yeah I think I think we're sort of

1207
01:09:22.324 --> 01:09:24.994
we're past those days where it's so segregated

1208
01:09:25.286 --> 01:09:28.956
which is great I mean I've been doing a lot

1209
01:09:28.956 --> 01:09:31.000
more long-form stuff recently like a

1210
01:09:31.458 --> 01:09:34.044
a couple of feature docos and a couple of

1211
01:09:34.044 --> 01:09:37.256
feature narrative projects and you know I was

1212
01:09:37.298 --> 01:09:40.843
I was definitely nervous at first because you

1213
01:09:40.843 --> 01:09:43.053
know you you you look at the shot count and you

1214
01:09:43.053 --> 01:09:45.347
look at the time you have and you do some maths and

1215
01:09:45.347 --> 01:09:47.933
a number comes out that just seems ridiculous

1216
01:09:48.309 --> 01:09:50.811
and so you ignore it but you do start grading

1217
01:09:50.811 --> 01:09:54.940
straight away yeah yeah but it's all just

1218
01:09:54.940 --> 01:09:57.401
grading right like like you you know you can be

1219
01:09:57.401 --> 01:10:00.487
working on the most technical dry thing it still

1220
01:10:00.529 --> 01:10:03.157
has a story and it still has a coherence and it

1221
01:10:03.157 --> 01:10:07.328
still has scenes and I think yeah all

1222
01:10:07.453 --> 01:10:12.207
the different disciplines sort of have you know

1223
01:10:12.207 --> 01:10:14.168
they use the same muscles in different ways

1224
01:10:14.418 --> 01:10:18.297
you know you have to change your emphasis a

1225
01:10:18.297 --> 01:10:21.467
little bit you know certainly on a on a long-form

1226
01:10:21.717 --> 01:10:24.970
or an episodic project you know you you lean a lot

1227
01:10:24.970 --> 01:10:27.556
more on structure and on 

1228
01:10:27.556 --> 01:10:32.811
you know setups and you're very happy when

1229
01:10:32.811 --> 01:10:34.480
you encounter those things that are just

1230
01:10:34.772 --> 01:10:36.732
two shots of people talking to each other for a

1231
01:10:36.732 --> 01:10:40.069
long time because you're like wow okay I just

1232
01:10:40.069 --> 01:10:44.198
graded 80 shots and that's you know yeah but

1233
01:10:44.198 --> 01:10:48.869
yeah I think I think one of the things is I've

1234
01:10:48.869 --> 01:10:52.247
gotten more experiences as a colorist that is hard

1235
01:10:52.247 --> 01:10:56.210
to put into words I don't I don't know

1236
01:10:56.251 --> 01:11:00.089
how I do it but I just sort of it's easy to land

1237
01:11:00.089 --> 01:11:04.134
jobs in the sense that you know you might finish

1238
01:11:04.343 --> 01:11:06.553
you finish on time or you even finish early

1239
01:11:06.553 --> 01:11:08.555
sometimes that never used to happen to me

1240
01:11:09.056 --> 01:11:11.600
I think it's just sort of experience and like

1241
01:11:11.892 --> 01:11:14.728
making the right decisions 

1242
01:11:15.312 --> 01:11:20.317
more than the wrong decisions getting caught up

1243
01:11:20.317 --> 01:11:23.904
less you know getting stuck on small details

1244
01:11:24.446 --> 01:11:26.532
that don't matter and sometimes getting stuck on

1245
01:11:26.532 --> 01:11:28.742
small details that really do matter you know

1246
01:11:29.076 --> 01:11:32.454
it does I think it just goes back to that idea

1247
01:11:32.454 --> 01:11:36.000
of like it's what we do is is technically very hard

1248
01:11:36.375 --> 01:11:40.629
and it's a lifetime craft but it does get

1249
01:11:40.629 --> 01:11:43.549
easier after a while you know like if you just

1250
01:11:43.549 --> 01:11:44.299
keep doing it it does get easier yeah I know

1251
01:11:44.299 --> 01:11:44.758
keep doing it it does get easier yeah I know

1252
01:11:44.758 --> 01:11:47.511
exactly what you mean about landing a project

1253
01:11:47.636 --> 01:11:49.847
and and being surprised when you get to a point

1254
01:11:49.847 --> 01:11:51.557
where oh my goodness we're approved

1255
01:11:52.349 --> 01:11:56.353
and I'm happy with it and what am I going to do but

1256
01:11:56.353 --> 01:11:58.397
then it does it does come out of the blue

1257
01:11:58.397 --> 01:12:00.858
every now and then and I had this the other day I

1258
01:12:00.858 --> 01:12:04.820
was working on a motion control tvc where they'd

1259
01:12:04.820 --> 01:12:11.493
shot with a robot program for camera moves

1260
01:12:11.493 --> 01:12:14.663
and they'd done a couple of takes that

1261
01:12:14.788 --> 01:12:17.416
needed to be stitched together and there were

1262
01:12:17.416 --> 01:12:20.669
several versions of it and it was all a one take

1263
01:12:20.794 --> 01:12:25.883
shot but there were maybe eight different

1264
01:12:25.883 --> 01:12:30.721
- versions of the TVC... and I thought well
- Sounds like fun 

1265
01:12:30.721 --> 01:12:33.307
how hard could that be you know we've we've only

1266
01:12:33.307 --> 01:12:36.393
got 16 shots to get through and we've got a full

1267
01:12:36.393 --> 01:12:40.272
day to do it and you know I was sweating at five pm

1268
01:12:40.272 --> 01:12:43.150
going oh my goodness I'm gonna need more time

1269
01:12:43.692 --> 01:12:45.861
and you know it hasn't happened to me for a very

1270
01:12:45.861 --> 01:12:48.072
long time that I've had to message a producer and

1271
01:12:48.113 --> 01:12:52.034
say hey how do you feel about me wrapping at seven

1272
01:12:52.034 --> 01:12:54.536
instead of six because I reckon by the time

1273
01:12:54.536 --> 01:12:57.498
I finish these tracks I'm still going to have an

1274
01:12:57.498 --> 01:13:02.211
hour's worth of handles to do and it took it

1275
01:13:02.211 --> 01:13:05.089
took me by surprise but I realized well I don't do

1276
01:13:05.089 --> 01:13:10.010
motion control jobs very often and I've made

1277
01:13:10.010 --> 01:13:14.765
decisions to put 25 windows into this shot

1278
01:13:14.765 --> 01:13:18.018
- And you realize there's 17 passes you need to
- And I need to get those tracks to match

1279
01:13:18.018 --> 01:13:20.687
track them through with handles and the tracks

1280
01:13:20.687 --> 01:13:23.941
should match pretty well and well how do you

1281
01:13:23.941 --> 01:13:28.362
control that and so you know I I just had to say to

1282
01:13:28.362 --> 01:13:30.948
myself well next time I'll I'll remember this

1283
01:13:30.948 --> 01:13:34.118
and I'll say to myself this is motion control maybe

1284
01:13:34.118 --> 01:13:38.455
don't reach for the window see how else

1285
01:13:38.455 --> 01:13:42.292
you can solve that client request I'm a window

1286
01:13:42.292 --> 01:13:45.462
reacher I always reach the window I have I

1287
01:13:45.504 --> 01:13:48.215
have weaned myself onto softer elipses a lot more

1288
01:13:48.215 --> 01:13:52.344
though yes I like the softer elips oh just looks

1289
01:13:52.344 --> 01:13:54.972
like light doesn't it you know getting the darkroom

1290
01:13:54.972 --> 01:13:59.518
tools out yeah no I mean yeah anytime you find

1291
01:13:59.518 --> 01:14:01.436
yourself like semi-rotoing something

1292
01:14:01.436 --> 01:14:03.730
you're probably barking out the wrong tree but

1293
01:14:04.148 --> 01:14:06.984
every now and then you have to you know every now

1294
01:14:06.984 --> 01:14:09.444
and then no that's so right but just you know

1295
01:14:09.695 --> 01:14:14.408
you have to know when that moment is and I think if

1296
01:14:14.408 --> 01:14:17.452
you're doing similar types of work

1297
01:14:18.579 --> 01:14:22.332
you look at something and after you know your 15

1298
01:14:22.332 --> 01:14:25.127
years of doing this kind of work you can say

1299
01:14:25.794 --> 01:14:28.881
I know the client I know the agency I know the

1300
01:14:28.881 --> 01:14:32.885
director I know the DP I'm pretty sure they're

1301
01:14:32.885 --> 01:14:35.220
going to want this approach and you can get

1302
01:14:35.220 --> 01:14:37.514
cracking and you can get

1303
01:14:37.514 --> 01:14:38.724
to a point where everyone's

1304
01:14:38.849 --> 01:14:42.144
reasonably happy without having to get two hours

1305
01:14:42.144 --> 01:14:44.771
into the session and then completely reorient

1306
01:14:44.855 --> 01:14:49.735
yourself so you know there is a lot to be said

1307
01:14:49.735 --> 01:14:55.115
for just that knowing people yes yeah and sometimes

1308
01:14:55.240 --> 01:14:57.034
it's driven by the clients as well like sometimes

1309
01:14:57.034 --> 01:14:59.953
they know you and they trust you yeah true and

1310
01:14:59.953 --> 01:15:02.039
they're coming to you because they're like your

1311
01:15:02.039 --> 01:15:04.374
approach is what I want on this one absolutely

1312
01:15:04.625 --> 01:15:07.169
yeah yeah yeah and I think there is a bit of a

1313
01:15:07.169 --> 01:15:10.339
Dan Stonehouse look to be honest so well

1314
01:15:10.797 --> 01:15:14.051
it is interesting because I you know I do you know

1315
01:15:14.051 --> 01:15:16.386
I I am now recruiting colourists and so I

1316
01:15:16.386 --> 01:15:19.973
look at colourist work and I sort of I think you

1317
01:15:19.973 --> 01:15:23.727
know I don't look for style but I think everyone

1318
01:15:23.727 --> 01:15:26.980
has their tendencies everyone has their tastes and

1319
01:15:26.980 --> 01:15:29.816
if you look at a a large body of work from a

1320
01:15:29.858 --> 01:15:32.736
particular colourist a good colourist it won't all

1321
01:15:32.736 --> 01:15:35.656
look the same but you'll sort of start to

1322
01:15:35.656 --> 01:15:37.991
have an idea of their concerns of the things they

1323
01:15:37.991 --> 01:15:42.871
think about you know it's very hard to judge

1324
01:15:42.871 --> 01:15:44.915
colour even as an experienced colourist right

1325
01:15:44.915 --> 01:15:46.667
because when it's done well it sort of does

1326
01:15:46.667 --> 01:15:49.461
disappear and you don't have the context and you

1327
01:15:49.461 --> 01:15:53.298
don't have the offline so you know you don't know

1328
01:15:53.298 --> 01:15:56.468
whether it's one of those you know just beautiful

1329
01:15:56.468 --> 01:16:00.847
like passes you know I'm trying to think of the

1330
01:16:00.847 --> 01:16:02.391
sports metaphor here but I'm not a good sports

1331
01:16:02.391 --> 01:16:05.018
metaphor person you know like passing an alley

1332
01:16:05.227 --> 01:16:08.272
into the pool goes in the net or the hole or

1333
01:16:08.272 --> 01:16:11.233
whatever you know because the cinematographer

1334
01:16:11.233 --> 01:16:13.819
was just ridiculously talented or the jobs where

1335
01:16:13.819 --> 01:16:16.446
they've had to do absolute bloody surgery you know

1336
01:16:17.072 --> 01:16:20.951
but if you look at a colourist work together you

1337
01:16:20.951 --> 01:16:22.828
can see tendencies and you can see thought right

1338
01:16:22.869 --> 01:16:26.415
like you can see a point of view and I think that's

1339
01:16:26.415 --> 01:16:28.917
much more interesting than style you know

1340
01:16:28.917 --> 01:16:32.587
like style is a very sort of shorthand way of

1341
01:16:32.587 --> 01:16:38.135
summing that up you know but you can you can see

1342
01:16:38.135 --> 01:16:44.016
evidence of like of original thought or something

1343
01:16:44.016 --> 01:16:48.395
like you can see you can see handprints or

1344
01:16:48.437 --> 01:16:51.940
fingerprints or something it's a lot more slippery

1345
01:16:51.940 --> 01:16:54.526
than just style but but there's something there

1346
01:16:54.526 --> 01:16:57.696
you know so that's that's always what I look for

1347
01:16:57.696 --> 01:17:00.282
when I'm looking for colourists. I was having a

1348
01:17:00.282 --> 01:17:01.241
when I'm looking for colourists. I was having a

1349
01:17:01.241 --> 01:17:03.952
look at some stills from a recent job that you

1350
01:17:03.952 --> 01:17:08.206
posted on Instagram you'll have to refresh me

1351
01:17:08.540 --> 01:17:11.126
as to the name of it but it was a collaboration job

1352
01:17:11.126 --> 01:17:15.088
it was like Apple and oh yes yeah I mean I

1353
01:17:15.088 --> 01:17:17.549
think was Office Works first Apple seconds but

1354
01:17:17.549 --> 01:17:22.929
nonetheless okay I thought those stills were

1355
01:17:23.180 --> 01:17:28.268
so beautiful and I thought oh here's here's another

1356
01:17:28.268 --> 01:17:32.564
classic Dan grade where you've got really clean

1357
01:17:33.106 --> 01:17:37.527
pure beautiful colours like you've just thought

1358
01:17:37.527 --> 01:17:40.947
today I'm in love with yellow and I want a

1359
01:17:41.156 --> 01:17:45.160
symphony of yellow and I want it to be the most

1360
01:17:45.160 --> 01:17:49.039
enticing gorgeous yellow and it's not really

1361
01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:51.458
yellow is the colour I tussle with the most I think

1362
01:17:51.458 --> 01:17:54.002
yellow is the trickiest colour right I really do

1363
01:17:54.002 --> 01:17:57.672
I think I think it's the narrowest it's the

1364
01:17:57.672 --> 01:17:59.800
narrowest like technically

1365
01:17:59.800 --> 01:18:03.679
you know on one side you

1366
01:18:03.720 --> 01:18:06.848
have this sort of like yucky green sort of NTSC

1367
01:18:06.848 --> 01:18:11.019
kind of crevasse and then on the other side you

1368
01:18:11.019 --> 01:18:14.564
have this sort of magentery like magentery orange

1369
01:18:14.564 --> 01:18:20.570
kind of situation yeah actually I really spend

1370
01:18:20.570 --> 01:18:23.156
a lot of time thinking about yellow it's it's

1371
01:18:23.156 --> 01:18:25.534
troublesome I mean that's an interesting one

1372
01:18:25.534 --> 01:18:29.704
because that job yeah right that that job was I was

1373
01:18:29.704 --> 01:18:31.957
like it's a 15 seconder this is a bit of a

1374
01:18:31.957 --> 01:18:34.376
stretch you know there's not even enough shots to

1375
01:18:34.376 --> 01:18:41.007
get good stills out of you know like is it

1376
01:18:41.007 --> 01:18:46.304
really an apple job not sort of not really 

1377
01:18:46.304 --> 01:18:49.015
but yeah no it's that's really nice 

1378
01:18:49.891 --> 01:18:51.393
again it's that thing of you just don't have

1379
01:18:51.393 --> 01:18:53.979
perspective on your own work you know like 

1380
01:18:54.229 --> 01:18:57.607
instagram is a funny thing to to throw your work

1381
01:18:57.607 --> 01:19:00.694
into because yeah every now and then something

1382
01:19:00.735 --> 01:19:02.863
will take off and you're like okay and then

1383
01:19:02.863 --> 01:19:05.407
something you think is fantastic will just

1384
01:19:05.866 --> 01:19:09.369
absolutely flop you know but of course there's

1385
01:19:09.369 --> 01:19:10.704
there's there's an algorithm you're

1386
01:19:10.704 --> 01:19:12.497
tussling with that no one really understands so you

1387
01:19:12.497 --> 01:19:14.082
can always blame the algorithm this is true

1388
01:19:14.166 --> 01:19:18.086
this is true you posted at 2 30 pm not 3 o'clock pm

1389
01:19:18.086 --> 01:19:23.467
or something yeah yeah so I should probably

1390
01:19:23.467 --> 01:19:26.470
wrap up shortly although I have been absolutely

1391
01:19:26.470 --> 01:19:29.681
loving every second of chatting with you

1392
01:19:30.515 --> 01:19:34.186
I suppose before I do

1393
01:19:36.354 --> 01:19:40.525
what do you see next for crayon and that's a that's

1394
01:19:40.525 --> 01:19:42.986
a bit of a wild card question right

1395
01:19:44.529 --> 01:19:47.491
and also an annoyingly open-ended one but where

1396
01:19:47.491 --> 01:19:49.951
where do you where do you want to steer this

1397
01:19:49.951 --> 01:19:54.623
ship that you've created the the thing you still

1398
01:19:54.623 --> 01:19:55.957
need a lot of money for is a theater

1399
01:19:56.374 --> 01:19:59.002
right so I can see that at some point in our future

1400
01:19:59.002 --> 01:20:01.463
because you know definitely as an

1401
01:20:01.463 --> 01:20:02.923
individual colorist you're not going to have a

1402
01:20:02.923 --> 01:20:04.424
theater but as a group of colors together

1403
01:20:05.175 --> 01:20:11.223
it's possible I want to keep on developing 

1404
01:20:11.223 --> 01:20:13.934
cloud workflows sort of like both official and

1405
01:20:13.934 --> 01:20:18.522
unofficial I think you know look it's going to get

1406
01:20:18.522 --> 01:20:20.690
to the point probably in our careers where

1407
01:20:20.732 --> 01:20:22.943
we won't have a computer on our desks you know

1408
01:20:22.943 --> 01:20:27.781
we'll be spinning up a bunch of machines and

1409
01:20:27.781 --> 01:20:30.158
an underground lair somewhere with a zillion

1410
01:20:30.158 --> 01:20:32.244
graphics cards you know when we need to render

1411
01:20:32.327 --> 01:20:36.581
and and half a zillion when we don't but I think

1412
01:20:36.581 --> 01:20:39.876
I think there's a lot of interesting

1413
01:20:40.043 --> 01:20:46.007
stuff still to be done with technology but

1414
01:20:46.007 --> 01:20:50.929
technology like this was something I was

1415
01:20:50.929 --> 01:20:53.056
thinking about before but I don't think I mentioned

1416
01:20:53.056 --> 01:20:55.100
when you were talking about the technology and

1417
01:20:55.100 --> 01:20:57.978
being nerdy about you know Postgres databases and

1418
01:20:57.978 --> 01:21:00.522
all the rest of it I think colorists are extremely

1419
01:21:00.605 --> 01:21:03.942
good at thinking about creativity in an efficient

1420
01:21:03.942 --> 01:21:11.408
way about about workflow about getting to a

1421
01:21:11.408 --> 01:21:13.535
good result quickly right I think when you take

1422
01:21:13.535 --> 01:21:15.495
that mentality and you apply it to technology

1423
01:21:15.495 --> 01:21:19.708
when you really start to think about like how these

1424
01:21:19.708 --> 01:21:23.545
tools can be used you know from the

1425
01:21:23.545 --> 01:21:27.132
perspective of someone who you know like there are

1426
01:21:27.132 --> 01:21:29.259
tools I don't use on my panel because it's

1427
01:21:29.301 --> 01:21:32.262
two button presses instead of one you know like

1428
01:21:32.262 --> 01:21:34.472
that can be the difference between something I

1429
01:21:34.472 --> 01:21:37.100
use regularly and something I don't you know so

1430
01:21:37.100 --> 01:21:39.019
when you take that kind of hyper obsession with

1431
01:21:39.019 --> 01:21:42.063
like creative efficiency and you you you sort of

1432
01:21:42.063 --> 01:21:44.316
start looking at technology through that lens

1433
01:21:44.941 --> 01:21:49.029
you know it can it's not easy to come up with

1434
01:21:49.029 --> 01:21:51.156
new ideas but it can certainly be very interesting

1435
01:21:51.781 --> 01:21:55.535
to come up with ideas that benefits that benefit

1436
01:21:55.535 --> 01:21:58.496
all colorists right like that whether sort of

1437
01:21:58.538 --> 01:22:05.086
inside our organization or outside yeah so bore

1438
01:22:05.086 --> 01:22:07.088
like somewhat boring tools like databases

1439
01:22:07.297 --> 01:22:10.008
and things like that you know when you think about

1440
01:22:10.008 --> 01:22:12.135
them through the lens of ease of use and like

1441
01:22:12.135 --> 01:22:17.432
problems that we keep on facing it's it's yeah

1442
01:22:17.432 --> 01:22:19.434
it's really it's really interesting proactive so

1443
01:22:19.434 --> 01:22:22.729
we want to keep on coming up with like tools that

1444
01:22:22.729 --> 01:22:25.315
people would think are nerdy but other

1445
01:22:25.357 --> 01:22:27.984
colorists get excited about you know it's nice

1446
01:22:27.984 --> 01:22:31.613
having a captive audience to appreciate

1447
01:22:32.072 --> 01:22:37.035
invention in that area you know and I mean look

1448
01:22:37.035 --> 01:22:38.745
a big a big part of what Crayon does which

1449
01:22:38.745 --> 01:22:40.914
we have not really talked about is is the

1450
01:22:40.914 --> 01:22:43.750
production team is the producers right we have 

1451
01:22:44.834 --> 01:22:47.962
we have a lot of producers and we have a lot of

1452
01:22:47.962 --> 01:22:49.214
sort of technology and infrastructure

1453
01:22:50.548 --> 01:22:54.177
that allow them to sort of effectively work with a

1454
01:22:54.177 --> 01:22:55.804
lot of different colorists and I think that's

1455
01:22:55.804 --> 01:22:59.099
probably like the secret source of of of what what

1456
01:22:59.099 --> 01:23:01.601
we're doing and and why it's working 

1457
01:23:02.644 --> 01:23:09.192
you know it's about it's about helping colorists do

1458
01:23:09.192 --> 01:23:10.777
the things they're best at

1459
01:23:11.695 --> 01:23:14.364
and not have to do the things that they're not

1460
01:23:14.364 --> 01:23:17.033
the best at but it's also about

1461
01:23:18.034 --> 01:23:20.870
you know applying that kind of colorist thinking to

1462
01:23:20.870 --> 01:23:23.248
the producers roles and to the tools that we use

1463
01:23:23.248 --> 01:23:28.545
and and how to make that collaboration as

1464
01:23:28.545 --> 01:23:30.797
frictionless as possible right I think I think

1465
01:23:30.797 --> 01:23:35.301
that's a really interesting problem to solve you

1466
01:23:35.301 --> 01:23:42.016
know anytime anytime a colorist hits a problem

1467
01:23:42.267 --> 01:23:44.477
over and over and over again it's kind of you know

1468
01:23:44.477 --> 01:23:46.771
you can you can rail against it or you can

1469
01:23:46.771 --> 01:23:50.608
sort of turn it into yeah a problem to be solved

1470
01:23:50.608 --> 01:23:53.778
or something to adapt to or a workflow change 

1471
01:23:54.446 --> 01:23:57.323
and it's it's it's sort of really interesting to be

1472
01:23:57.323 --> 01:23:59.284
able to apply that thinking to 

1473
01:24:00.577 --> 01:24:03.663
yet to to all aspects of of the work we do right

1474
01:24:03.663 --> 01:24:04.998
like that it isn't just about

1475
01:24:05.749 --> 01:24:10.170
the grade session it's about sometimes the weeks of

1476
01:24:10.170 --> 01:24:12.505
discussions and negotiations and planning that

1477
01:24:12.505 --> 01:24:15.884
happened before and the stuff that happens after

1478
01:24:15.884 --> 01:24:20.180
you know from from invoicing to you know

1479
01:24:20.180 --> 01:24:23.516
making it easy for clients to pay versus tricky

1480
01:24:23.516 --> 01:24:25.351
like you know there's

1481
01:24:25.351 --> 01:24:26.269
there's all kinds of technology

1482
01:24:26.269 --> 01:24:30.774
you can use there to you know building workflows

1483
01:24:30.774 --> 01:24:32.734
to make sure you've generated the stills

1484
01:24:32.901 --> 01:24:35.320
for the the job the colorist really wants to post

1485
01:24:35.320 --> 01:24:37.363
and a way of getting that to the top of the list

1486
01:24:37.363 --> 01:24:41.201
so the producers you know can can action that

1487
01:24:41.201 --> 01:24:44.204
passively like all this all this pretty dry stuff

1488
01:24:44.412 --> 01:24:47.415
I find really interesting and it's a nice sort

1489
01:24:47.415 --> 01:24:51.461
of it's a nice way of of using that

1490
01:24:51.461 --> 01:24:53.338
colorist thinking but in a different context I

1491
01:24:53.338 --> 01:24:57.592
really enjoy it so lots more of that yes I

1492
01:24:58.218 --> 01:25:00.720
mean from from the perspective of somebody who's

1493
01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:03.306
represented by Crayon I have to say that that's

1494
01:25:03.306 --> 01:25:06.518
again nepotism alert nepotism alert well I know I

1495
01:25:06.518 --> 01:25:09.896
know but like I never say anything I don't mean

1496
01:25:09.896 --> 01:25:13.316
and yes I'm a I'm a bit I'm a bit like I'll say it

1497
01:25:13.316 --> 01:25:18.655
to your face but I I do think that that's been

1498
01:25:19.656 --> 01:25:23.743
one of the main benefits in coming on board as a

1499
01:25:23.743 --> 01:25:26.746
colorist as a Crayon colorist is

1500
01:25:27.580 --> 01:25:32.585
having those systems in place and it took me a

1501
01:25:32.585 --> 01:25:36.464
little bit to get on boarded.

1502
01:25:37.423 --> 01:25:39.509
It's a lot there's a lot of a lot of

1503
01:25:39.509 --> 01:25:42.762
- esoteric stuff we've developed
- There are systems, right ?

1504
01:25:42.762 --> 01:25:44.973
yeah and and I have to try to understand those

1505
01:25:44.973 --> 01:25:47.100
systems and you know there are still

1506
01:25:47.517 --> 01:25:50.270
a few things that I just put in the too hard

1507
01:25:50.270 --> 01:25:53.565
basket and I will get to once I have some brain

1508
01:25:53.648 --> 01:25:57.944
space but to to have a team of people who know

1509
01:25:57.944 --> 01:26:02.907
what you need as a colorist right now

1510
01:26:03.449 --> 01:26:07.120
which is beyond just getting the session booked in

1511
01:26:07.120 --> 01:26:12.876
and paid for but also that you need to have

1512
01:26:12.876 --> 01:26:16.921
some stills for for publicity afterwards you

1513
01:26:16.921 --> 01:26:18.882
need to know who to credit in those stills and

1514
01:26:18.923 --> 01:26:24.137
who not to you need people who understand why

1515
01:26:24.137 --> 01:26:26.514
you may or may not mention a director's version

1516
01:26:26.681 --> 01:26:30.768
to an agency what director's version yeah

1517
01:26:30.768 --> 01:26:35.315
exactly all of those sorts of things 

1518
01:26:35.982 --> 01:26:39.068
and and to know that yes it's really important for

1519
01:26:39.068 --> 01:26:43.489
our for our brain space to see an offline

1520
01:26:43.823 --> 01:26:47.744
ahead of time at least the day before and so we can

1521
01:26:47.744 --> 01:26:49.829
you know be in the shower the following

1522
01:26:49.829 --> 01:26:52.624
morning and have you know those thoughts just going

1523
01:26:52.624 --> 01:26:55.501
through of like okay I see a challenge

1524
01:26:55.501 --> 01:26:59.797
here I see a challenge there I'll be able to 

1525
01:26:59.797 --> 01:27:02.800
possibly use this tool to solve that yeah yeah

1526
01:27:03.134 --> 01:27:05.386
just being able to gently sneak up on a project is

1527
01:27:05.386 --> 01:27:07.847
so nice yeah rather than like getting dropped

1528
01:27:07.847 --> 01:27:12.185
in the hot seat on the day yeah and I know that

1529
01:27:12.185 --> 01:27:14.979
when I'm doing my own producing that's the last

1530
01:27:15.063 --> 01:27:17.607
thing that I'm thinking about I'm just like going

1531
01:27:17.607 --> 01:27:22.862
in you know it's it's like every day is just

1532
01:27:22.862 --> 01:27:26.866
putting out fires spot fire management and it's

1533
01:27:26.866 --> 01:27:29.243
like I all right I've got I've got it in the

1534
01:27:29.243 --> 01:27:32.413
schedule at the right time and I'm there job done

1535
01:27:32.413 --> 01:27:34.415
I'm not thinking about getting the off-lines the

1536
01:27:34.457 --> 01:27:37.460
day before I'm not thinking about recording any

1537
01:27:37.460 --> 01:27:40.713
information about the job itself it's just get in

1538
01:27:40.713 --> 01:27:43.549
there get out get it done is everyone happy okay

1539
01:27:43.549 --> 01:27:47.887
phew what's next so it is nice to have that

1540
01:27:47.971 --> 01:27:51.808
sense that you know there are people who are

1541
01:27:51.808 --> 01:27:54.852
recording important information and are thinking

1542
01:27:54.936 --> 01:28:00.525
about things that I don't want to think about 

1543
01:28:00.525 --> 01:28:02.777
and who is the name of this director you know

1544
01:28:03.736 --> 01:28:07.865
well you know it sounds it sounds stupid right

1545
01:28:07.865 --> 01:28:11.077
because like I love the directors that I work with

1546
01:28:11.411 --> 01:28:14.497
but sometimes you don't know the people sometimes

1547
01:28:14.497 --> 01:28:17.500
it's not the director who's got you involved you know

1548
01:28:17.750 --> 01:28:20.586
Ant then you're sitting is a  dark room with people

1549
01:28:20.586 --> 01:28:23.548
- you don't necessarily get an introduction 
- no exactly I always say...

1550
01:28:23.548 --> 01:28:25.341
it's like you know you you sit in a room with

1551
01:28:25.341 --> 01:28:28.177
people sometimes new people every day

1552
01:28:28.177 --> 01:28:30.179
and then you look at a whole bunch of other people

1553
01:28:30.179 --> 01:28:34.934
the whole day you know and and then you know

1554
01:28:34.934 --> 01:28:38.271
you bump into someone getting coffee and they know

1555
01:28:38.271 --> 01:28:39.856
you really well they know the back of your head

1556
01:28:39.856 --> 01:28:44.277
really well and you you're just like gosh what was

1557
01:28:44.277 --> 01:28:47.697
the like what was the job you know when did I

1558
01:28:47.697 --> 01:28:49.824
work with this person before oh that's right I can

1559
01:28:49.824 --> 01:28:52.160
always remember the job so you know and we all

1560
01:28:52.201 --> 01:28:56.914
have to compartmentalize so much to to get what

1561
01:28:56.914 --> 01:28:59.417
we need to do done that there's only so

1562
01:28:59.417 --> 01:29:02.128
much that you can actually physically do with one

1563
01:29:02.128 --> 01:29:05.298
person so yes yeah exactly there are finite

1564
01:29:05.298 --> 01:29:09.635
resources of an individual person and and you

1565
01:29:09.635 --> 01:29:13.222
know sort of if you try and go beyond that you

1566
01:29:13.222 --> 01:29:15.183
very quickly find yourself running a small business

1567
01:29:15.183 --> 01:29:19.395
and yes you know it actually gets easier

1568
01:29:19.395 --> 01:29:23.608
in my experience like once you get beyond that sort

1569
01:29:23.608 --> 01:29:28.237
of one two three person scale you know

1570
01:29:28.404 --> 01:29:32.158
but having having had to go through that myself

1571
01:29:32.158 --> 01:29:35.328
I would like to help other people not to have

1572
01:29:35.328 --> 01:29:40.583
- to you know yeah and resources. 
- Just a quick shout out before

1573
01:29:40.583 --> 01:29:42.710
we wrap up and I really do need to go

1574
01:29:42.710 --> 01:29:47.173
because I have a session about to start and I'm

1575
01:29:47.173 --> 01:29:48.925
seeing a message that somebody has actually

1576
01:29:49.133 --> 01:29:52.386
jped into a zoom a little ahead of time so we

1577
01:29:52.386 --> 01:29:55.807
should wrap this up yes but I just wanted to

1578
01:29:55.807 --> 01:29:59.811
shout out to the other colorists at Crayon 

1579
01:29:59.811 --> 01:30:04.899
absolutely and you know Sam McCarthy who is on

1580
01:30:04.899 --> 01:30:09.737
instagram Sam Sam in person it's just what I call

1581
01:30:09.737 --> 01:30:13.116
him in my head no I know I have directors I have

1582
01:30:13.157 --> 01:30:15.409
directors who I just think of by their like

1583
01:30:15.409 --> 01:30:20.206
instagram handles as well you know yeah so Sam

1584
01:30:20.289 --> 01:30:24.460
who's based in Melbourne with me Kali

1585
01:30:24.460 --> 01:30:26.963
Bateman obviously up in Brisbane shout out to you

1586
01:30:27.255 --> 01:30:32.468
and the recent edition of Max Ferguson-Hook who

1587
01:30:32.468 --> 01:30:35.221
has just moved from London to Auckland who

1588
01:30:35.680 --> 01:30:40.560
we're all very very excited about learning from

1589
01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:43.855
and used to be with time-based arts over in the

1590
01:30:43.855 --> 01:30:49.068
the esteemed time-based arts yes yes and Dan

1591
01:30:49.068 --> 01:30:52.405
and Max are currently having a really great time

1592
01:30:53.197 --> 01:30:57.076
putting together Max's grade suite well I feel like

1593
01:30:57.076 --> 01:30:59.579
I'm costing that I'm sending him towards

1594
01:30:59.662 --> 01:31:03.583
esoteric furniture yeah but also sending him

1595
01:31:03.583 --> 01:31:05.751
towards like Facebook marketplace bargains so

1596
01:31:05.751 --> 01:31:08.588
you know it kind of evens out something Dan's

1597
01:31:08.588 --> 01:31:12.091
exceptional at. I do I do I do love a bargain

1598
01:31:13.176 --> 01:31:16.554
so I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's work

1599
01:31:16.554 --> 01:31:20.850
as as we move forward as a little coloring team

1600
01:31:20.850 --> 01:31:24.812
little coloring family yeah and I and I do love

1601
01:31:24.812 --> 01:31:27.607
having this little peanut gallery to say

1602
01:31:28.274 --> 01:31:32.153
you know give each other a little bit of egging on

1603
01:31:32.153 --> 01:31:36.908
and reinforcing the great work that everyone

1604
01:31:36.908 --> 01:31:39.869
does and also having people to help troubleshoot

1605
01:31:39.869 --> 01:31:43.748
the inevitable things that go wrong the the classic

1606
01:31:44.749 --> 01:31:47.210
terse message from in the grade about like have you

1607
01:31:47.210 --> 01:31:48.961
ever seen this problem before you know

1608
01:31:49.003 --> 01:31:52.048
and then everyone immediately like assembles like

1609
01:31:52.048 --> 01:31:54.175
Batman to to to log suggestions...

1610
01:31:54.175 --> 01:32:00.348
Turn off caching is usually the answer yes absolutely so

1611
01:32:00.348 --> 01:32:03.100
look I better I better finish up and jump on

1612
01:32:03.100 --> 01:32:06.062
the zoom but thank you so much for joining me

1613
01:32:06.062 --> 01:32:10.524
Dan pleasure yes I'm sure we'll speak again today

1614
01:32:10.524 --> 01:32:15.154
and I hope this comes across as

1615
01:32:15.154 --> 01:32:17.240
a podcast podcast not just like a

1616
01:32:18.074 --> 01:32:21.035
a rambling conversation between some colleagues but

1617
01:32:21.035 --> 01:32:25.039
yeah they're the best ones thank you so

1618
01:32:25.081 --> 01:32:29.126
much for Mixing Light I'm Kali Bateman and I'll

1619
01:32:29.126 --> 01:32:31.295
see you all again soon bye @wearecrayon on

1620
01:32:31.295 --> 01:32:36.550
instagram give me a follow all right see ya bye