WEBVTT 00:00:00.690 --> 00:00:03.450 Matt Abrahams: Authenticity is a key ingredient in successful 00:00:03.450 --> 00:00:06.960 communication, but what is authenticity and how do we find it? 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:10.560 My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:11.975 Stanford Graduate School of Business. 00:00:12.690 --> 00:00:17.670 Welcome to this Rethinks episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:22.140 We're opening up our vault and resharing a really insightful conversation I had 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.660 with fellow GSB lecturer Graham Weaver. 00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:27.869 Graham suggests that effective leadership and communication 00:00:27.869 --> 00:00:31.590 excellence are impossible without first mastering self-awareness 00:00:31.650 --> 00:00:33.510 in overcoming personal barriers. 00:00:33.900 --> 00:00:37.590 Take a listen to more of his ideas in this enlightening discussion. 00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:41.050 Today I look forward to speaking with Graham Weaver. 00:00:41.230 --> 00:00:45.370 Graham is a lecturer in management at the GSB as well as a GSB alum. 00:00:45.670 --> 00:00:49.540 He teaches managing growing enterprises and managerial skills. 00:00:49.930 --> 00:00:53.710 Graham is a very popular teacher and has been invited multiple times to present 00:00:53.710 --> 00:00:56.470 in the graduation last lecture series. 00:00:56.980 --> 00:00:58.030 Graham, thanks for being here. 00:00:58.060 --> 00:00:59.110 Graham Weaver: Thanks so much for having me, Matt. 00:00:59.260 --> 00:01:00.880 Matt Abrahams: I look forward to the conversation. 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.690 Are you ready to get started? 00:01:01.690 --> 00:01:02.290 Graham Weaver: Let's do this. 00:01:02.295 --> 00:01:02.505 Matt Abrahams: Alright. 00:01:03.210 --> 00:01:08.130 You teach managing growing enterprises, what are two takeaways from your class 00:01:08.130 --> 00:01:11.850 that would help our listeners and their companies as they seek to grow and scale? 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:18.600 Graham Weaver: So number one would be the power of really direct communication. 00:01:19.020 --> 00:01:25.170 So this sounds so cliché that I even hate to say it, but people just waste time 00:01:25.170 --> 00:01:26.880 and energy and money by being indirect. 00:01:26.880 --> 00:01:31.259 They think that by, uh, being indirect they're being kind, but all 00:01:31.259 --> 00:01:32.850 they're doing is creating confusion. 00:01:32.850 --> 00:01:36.100 So, I'll give you an example for us at Alpine, you know, I had 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.440 I really struggled with this. 00:01:37.440 --> 00:01:38.850 I'm very conflict averse. 00:01:38.850 --> 00:01:42.390 I don't like, you know, saying something that's gonna upset someone. 00:01:42.390 --> 00:01:46.005 So for a lot of times I would dance around things and, and it led us 00:01:46.005 --> 00:01:49.455 to do some bad deals because I just was kinda like, what do you think? 00:01:49.455 --> 00:01:51.135 Are you sure you think this is a good deal? 00:01:51.345 --> 00:01:54.215 You know, kinda like that, when what I was really saying is, I hate this deal. 00:01:54.775 --> 00:01:58.125 I just couldn't be that direct and literally, I am that direct now. 00:01:58.605 --> 00:02:02.085 And that cost us, you know, millions of dollars in the early years where I 00:02:02.855 --> 00:02:05.265 just wasn't comfortable saying my truth. 00:02:05.265 --> 00:02:09.495 And so in this class, we just do this over and over again, where we get students 00:02:09.495 --> 00:02:10.965 in the habit of saying your truth. 00:02:10.965 --> 00:02:14.715 You can never go wrong when you're saying what is true. 00:02:14.715 --> 00:02:16.885 And then we talk about how to do that in a way where people can 00:02:16.885 --> 00:02:21.465 feel safe and, and valued, but you still got to lead with that truth. 00:02:21.465 --> 00:02:22.815 So that's probably the biggest. 00:02:23.355 --> 00:02:26.025 The second one is gonna be completely different. 00:02:26.085 --> 00:02:30.045 And so what, what I started teaching this class for a number of years, I would teach 00:02:30.045 --> 00:02:34.395 this class on entrepreneurship, and then I realized that people would learn all these 00:02:34.395 --> 00:02:37.155 tools about entrepreneurship, but no one would actually go become an entrepreneur, 00:02:37.155 --> 00:02:38.355 even though that's their vision. 00:02:38.355 --> 00:02:40.215 That's what they wrote on their essay, that's what they wanted to do. 00:02:40.215 --> 00:02:44.415 So I realized there's another part of this class, which is, hey, what 00:02:44.415 --> 00:02:47.714 is gonna stand in the way of you actually going and pursuing your dream? 00:02:48.285 --> 00:02:53.535 And so I added this entire component to the class, which is two things. 00:02:53.595 --> 00:02:58.935 First is, let's spend time and energy with students on really getting them 00:02:58.935 --> 00:03:01.545 to understand what their dream is. 00:03:01.545 --> 00:03:04.094 What would they do if they knew they wouldn't fail? 00:03:04.094 --> 00:03:05.714 What are, what are their superpowers? 00:03:05.714 --> 00:03:08.985 What is the thing that is easy for them that's hard for other people. 00:03:08.985 --> 00:03:12.135 Or that feels like play for them, that's work for others or you 00:03:12.135 --> 00:03:14.685 know, like we spend a lot of time helping them really understand it. 00:03:14.685 --> 00:03:18.675 And a lot of times it's, it's not the, it's not the standard, you 00:03:18.675 --> 00:03:19.965 know, thing that is pitched here. 00:03:19.965 --> 00:03:21.405 Like the, it's not the consulting job. 00:03:21.405 --> 00:03:22.875 It's something very, very different. 00:03:23.235 --> 00:03:26.175 So getting 'em really clear on that, and then this is really critical 00:03:26.175 --> 00:03:29.535 is, is they get flooded then with all these limiting beliefs. 00:03:29.985 --> 00:03:32.505 Not me, not now, I don't have enough experience, I might 00:03:32.505 --> 00:03:33.735 fail, how do I raise money? 00:03:33.735 --> 00:03:34.785 How do I pay off my loans? 00:03:34.785 --> 00:03:35.565 I can't do this. 00:03:36.299 --> 00:03:39.035 My roommate's brother tried this and failed. 00:03:39.255 --> 00:03:41.760 All these things flood in almost immediately. 00:03:42.089 --> 00:03:44.429 And we actually take, we have a whole class where we 00:03:44.429 --> 00:03:46.230 take those limiting beliefs. 00:03:46.589 --> 00:03:49.380 We put 'em down, we look at them in the cold light of day, 00:03:49.920 --> 00:03:51.779 and we start dealing with them. 00:03:51.929 --> 00:03:56.519 Because if you, we gotta name 'em because limiting beliefs is really fear and 00:03:56.519 --> 00:04:00.765 it, it has more power when it's just in the recesses of your subconscious mind. 00:04:00.765 --> 00:04:04.125 So we get it down, we look at it and we try to overcome it. 00:04:04.125 --> 00:04:07.725 So those are two things that, very different, direct communication and 00:04:07.725 --> 00:04:10.605 then, you know, figuring out your limiting beliefs and overcoming 00:04:10.605 --> 00:04:12.345 those that, that might help people. 00:04:12.555 --> 00:04:14.925 Matt Abrahams: I find it really interesting that in a class about 00:04:14.925 --> 00:04:17.325 enterprises, what you're really talking about are interpersonal 00:04:17.325 --> 00:04:19.665 skills and intrapersonal information. 00:04:19.665 --> 00:04:22.725 I think that for everybody to think for a moment, what would you do 00:04:22.725 --> 00:04:24.615 if failure wasn't limiting you? 00:04:25.320 --> 00:04:28.500 I think that's a wonderful way to get people to reframe what they're doing. 00:04:28.500 --> 00:04:32.010 And I love that you are taking time to have people call up those limiting 00:04:32.010 --> 00:04:34.950 beliefs because you can't address things you're not consciously aware of. 00:04:35.340 --> 00:04:39.930 Graham Weaver: So I'm, I'm 51 now and I've been in private equity 29 years. 00:04:39.930 --> 00:04:42.330 I've gone, you know, I went to Stanford at, I teach here. 00:04:42.840 --> 00:04:48.330 And the longer that life goes on for me, the more I realize that most of 00:04:48.330 --> 00:04:54.170 this game we're playing is really an internal game, first and foremost. 00:04:54.195 --> 00:04:58.395 And it presents itself as this external game where, you know, we 00:04:58.395 --> 00:05:01.935 have to do all these things and pay off debt and all this, but it really 00:05:01.935 --> 00:05:04.185 starts with being an internal game. 00:05:04.185 --> 00:05:08.985 And, and the more you can master that first, you know, the, the more 00:05:08.985 --> 00:05:09.945 your success you're gonna have. 00:05:09.945 --> 00:05:14.175 And almost no matter what you do externally, at some point you're gonna 00:05:14.175 --> 00:05:15.915 have to master that internal game. 00:05:17.175 --> 00:05:17.805 Matt Abrahams: Absolutely. 00:05:17.805 --> 00:05:19.695 And I think I, I see that in the work I do. 00:05:19.695 --> 00:05:23.594 You know, we, a lot of what we do is focus on how you message things externally, 00:05:23.594 --> 00:05:27.135 but it really starts with what's going on in your own head, in your own mind. 00:05:27.615 --> 00:05:31.455 You recently delivered a GSB Last Lecture on living an asymmetrical 00:05:31.455 --> 00:05:32.895 life, and congrats, by the way. 00:05:32.895 --> 00:05:34.995 It's quite an honor to speak at a Last Lecture. 00:05:35.475 --> 00:05:39.315 What do you mean by an asymmetrical life and how can we achieve that? 00:05:40.185 --> 00:05:44.685 Graham Weaver: Well, I use the analogy of investing after being a, a professional 00:05:44.685 --> 00:05:48.835 investor for 29 years, you end up with these wildly asymmetric outcomes. 00:05:48.835 --> 00:05:52.455 So you, you don't end up with like a whole bunch of, you know, two or three X deals. 00:05:52.455 --> 00:05:55.455 You end up with some okay ones and then some just gargantuan home runs. 00:05:55.455 --> 00:05:59.370 If you look at Warren Buffet for example, I think through 1988, he had 00:05:59.370 --> 00:06:02.880 half of his public market gains that, in his whole history, were from two 00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:04.469 stocks, GEICO and Washington Post. 00:06:04.469 --> 00:06:08.880 So you end up with these wildly asymmetric outcomes, which you can explain when you 00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:10.440 say, okay, you got this criteria right. 00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:13.380 You had the right market, the right management team, a big enough TAM, 00:06:13.590 --> 00:06:15.150 high returns on invested capital. 00:06:15.419 --> 00:06:17.130 You figured out a way to buy companies. 00:06:17.130 --> 00:06:19.830 You have a playbook, you know, and each time you stack another one of 00:06:19.830 --> 00:06:23.700 those, you're, you're creating like logarithmic type outcomes, not linear. 00:06:23.700 --> 00:06:26.190 And the more you stack on, the more logarithmic it becomes. 00:06:26.190 --> 00:06:29.789 So then I started looking at my own life and, and kind of looking at 00:06:29.789 --> 00:06:33.359 it through that lens of what could create asymmetric outcomes in life. 00:06:33.359 --> 00:06:34.660 And I came up with four things. 00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:38.340 So the first one is do hard things. 00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:42.990 And that, that, the reason that's on there is that the thing that is 00:06:42.990 --> 00:06:47.580 keeping you where you are, from your next plateau, is something that you 00:06:47.580 --> 00:06:49.469 either don't wanna do or you fear. 00:06:49.950 --> 00:06:52.100 So that's why you're stuck where you are right now. 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:53.280 It's one of those two things. 00:06:53.280 --> 00:06:53.909 Maybe both. 00:06:54.419 --> 00:06:55.169 Probably both. 00:06:55.844 --> 00:07:00.344 And if you go after that thing, generally speaking, your life 00:07:00.344 --> 00:07:02.145 is gonna get worse first. 00:07:02.325 --> 00:07:06.195 So if your thing, for example, is that you need to end a 00:07:06.195 --> 00:07:07.724 relationship that's not going well. 00:07:07.935 --> 00:07:10.275 You know, if you just woke up tomorrow and stayed in the 00:07:10.275 --> 00:07:12.075 relationship everything's fine. 00:07:12.075 --> 00:07:14.085 But if, but five years from now, it's gonna be worse. 00:07:14.085 --> 00:07:16.304 But if you wake up tomorrow instead and do the hard thing, have 00:07:16.304 --> 00:07:18.375 the hard conversation, have the breakup, you're gonna be lonely. 00:07:18.375 --> 00:07:21.255 You're gonna have to, you know, have that difficulty, but then you're gonna 00:07:21.255 --> 00:07:23.145 emerge and get to that next plateau. 00:07:23.474 --> 00:07:24.854 So that applies to everything. 00:07:24.854 --> 00:07:28.065 And I had this quote that I, I like to say, which is, everything you want in this 00:07:28.065 --> 00:07:30.304 life is on the other side of worse first. 00:07:31.544 --> 00:07:34.695 And the second one is, so, number one is do hard things. 00:07:34.695 --> 00:07:36.075 Number two is do your thing. 00:07:36.434 --> 00:07:41.430 And so you're not gonna be amazing at this life, trying to live someone else's life. 00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:44.789 And when you find that thing that you are really excited about, 00:07:44.789 --> 00:07:46.169 you just show up differently. 00:07:46.260 --> 00:07:50.789 I worked at a, at a job, you know, I took the safe job when I graduated from school. 00:07:51.150 --> 00:07:53.099 I just felt a part of me die. 00:07:53.159 --> 00:07:55.380 And if you'd asked me at the time when I was in that job, what 00:07:55.380 --> 00:07:58.409 percent of your potential are you unleashing right now, Graham? 00:07:58.409 --> 00:08:00.510 I probably would've said like, oh, 60, 70%. 00:08:00.870 --> 00:08:03.690 Now that I'm actually doing the thing I wanna be doing, I look back 00:08:03.690 --> 00:08:05.250 and I'd say, no, it's more like 4%. 00:08:05.909 --> 00:08:08.400 And so when you're doing something you're excited about, that's your thing. 00:08:08.400 --> 00:08:09.659 You're just gonna show up differently. 00:08:10.050 --> 00:08:13.140 And importantly, you're gonna stay with it for a lot longer, which 00:08:13.140 --> 00:08:15.960 is really the key, which is point three, which is do it for decades. 00:08:16.289 --> 00:08:19.919 Do your thing for a long time, like the, you're, if you are getting a 00:08:19.919 --> 00:08:23.340 little, even a little bit better, we have CEOs who have been running 00:08:23.340 --> 00:08:26.130 their company for 15 years and they're better in year 15 than they were in 00:08:26.130 --> 00:08:27.860 14, better in 14 than they were in 13. 00:08:28.400 --> 00:08:31.620 And, you know, 15 years in when you're improving, you could be the best in 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:34.530 the world at something, but you have, but it goes doing hard things, doing 00:08:34.530 --> 00:08:37.620 your thing, and then you will be more likely to do it for, for decades. 00:08:37.620 --> 00:08:43.530 And the fourth one, which kind of sits on top of everything, is write your story. 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:49.199 So, what most people do, if you ask them to write, uh, a book about their life, 00:08:49.199 --> 00:08:52.650 they would look back and they would kind of start talking about these events, 00:08:52.800 --> 00:08:55.530 almost like the, the events happened to them, and then this happened, and 00:08:55.530 --> 00:08:56.579 then this happened and this happened. 00:08:56.880 --> 00:08:58.230 We have managers, by the way, who do this. 00:08:58.260 --> 00:08:58.470 Oh yeah. 00:08:58.470 --> 00:08:59.100 How'd your quarter go? 00:08:59.100 --> 00:09:01.170 Well, this happened and then this happened and this happened. 00:09:01.680 --> 00:09:04.170 It's like, well, what if you just did it the other way around? 00:09:04.170 --> 00:09:07.740 What if you write the story first that you want to have happen? 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:08.944 Why don't you just do that? 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.350 Like, just starting today from wherever you are, write your story about what 00:09:13.350 --> 00:09:17.520 you want the story to be for the next 5, 10, 15, 20, or your life. 00:09:17.520 --> 00:09:20.760 You know, write that story and then make that story happen. 00:09:20.760 --> 00:09:24.930 And the magical thing happens is the more clear you can get on that story, 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:26.760 the more likely it's gonna be to happen. 00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:30.450 So those are the four things that I, I feel like if you stack those 00:09:30.450 --> 00:09:33.390 on top of each other, you can have, you know, basically anything 00:09:33.390 --> 00:09:33.915 that you want in this life. 00:09:35.340 --> 00:09:38.070 Matt Abrahams: I love that it's a playbook, and I love that it's all about 00:09:38.070 --> 00:09:41.520 initiative and willing to go through the hard stuff to get to the good stuff. 00:09:42.060 --> 00:09:47.250 And plotting a course in advance of actually doing it to sort of focus 00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:48.960 you, but also set expectations. 00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:55.050 And in what you said, I heard a lot of just get to it. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:56.880 Don't, don't waste time. 00:09:56.880 --> 00:10:00.990 And, and I love this idea of an asymmetrical life, and I hope everybody 00:10:00.990 --> 00:10:05.430 listening thinks about those four steps and considers, you know, addressing them. 00:10:05.520 --> 00:10:06.780 Maybe not in that order. 00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:10.770 Maybe, maybe not right away, but put yourself on a path to do that. 00:10:11.189 --> 00:10:15.970 Graham Weaver: Any one of those steps will improve your life dramatically. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:16.939 Any of those four. 00:10:17.330 --> 00:10:20.220 If you just do hard things, if you just do your thing, if you just write 00:10:20.280 --> 00:10:23.730 your story, any one of those will make a dramatic difference in your life. 00:10:23.730 --> 00:10:27.540 But if you run the table on all four, that's what I'm saying, you can 00:10:27.540 --> 00:10:29.040 unlock just about anything you want. 00:10:29.835 --> 00:10:31.125 Matt Abrahams: I, I love your passion. 00:10:31.185 --> 00:10:34.665 I love your ideas, and, and I see that in your blogs. 00:10:34.665 --> 00:10:35.835 I enjoy reading your blogs. 00:10:35.835 --> 00:10:36.375 It's a lot of fun. 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:40.410 You're a very engaging writer, and I, I learn a lot from them, as I'm 00:10:40.410 --> 00:10:41.640 learning from our conversation. 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.180 I have to say, I was struck by one of your blogs that was all about you 00:10:45.300 --> 00:10:49.470 attending a Taylor Swift concert, and I'm really curious to have you 00:10:49.470 --> 00:10:53.370 share with our audience the lessons you learned while you were grooving 00:10:53.370 --> 00:10:55.080 and shaking it off with Taylor Swift. 00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:57.000 Graham Weaver: That's my favorite song actually. 00:10:57.440 --> 00:10:59.070 Shake It Off by, by Taylor Swift. 00:10:59.070 --> 00:11:03.330 So in 2018, Taylor Swift was snubbed for the Grammys. 00:11:03.330 --> 00:11:06.705 You know, she wasn't nominated and there's this, this video of her where she is 00:11:06.705 --> 00:11:09.825 on the phone with her agent and she is just crest falling and like you can just 00:11:10.065 --> 00:11:12.015 watch all the energy drain from her face. 00:11:12.825 --> 00:11:17.145 And then right after that she goes through this really tough public, 00:11:17.895 --> 00:11:22.515 uh, disaster with Kanye West and Kim Kardashian about, you know, can she 00:11:22.515 --> 00:11:25.425 use lyrics or can they use her lyrics on the song and did she approve it? 00:11:25.425 --> 00:11:29.685 And, and they're, and the, the number one trending hashtag on Twitter, 00:11:29.715 --> 00:11:32.115 number one, was Taylor Swift is over. 00:11:32.715 --> 00:11:34.455 Can you imagine being her at that point? 00:11:34.725 --> 00:11:38.805 You're, you're like in your twenties and the number one trending hashtag 00:11:38.805 --> 00:11:41.115 in the world is your demise. 00:11:41.355 --> 00:11:43.155 That's how much people are, have this venom. 00:11:43.694 --> 00:11:44.715 And so what does she do? 00:11:44.775 --> 00:11:45.015 Okay. 00:11:45.015 --> 00:11:46.845 She, you know, what would most people do? 00:11:46.845 --> 00:11:50.865 They'd probably go, you know, they'd probably have this thing, I'm a victim. 00:11:50.865 --> 00:11:53.845 I have, you know, I'm gonna blame, you know, Kanye West 00:11:53.845 --> 00:11:55.725 and, you know, this, woe is me. 00:11:55.725 --> 00:11:58.245 And, and she probably had moments where she felt some of that. 00:11:58.245 --> 00:11:59.175 I'm sure she did. 00:11:59.685 --> 00:12:01.694 But instead she, she said, you know what? 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:03.840 I just need to make a better record. 00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:05.190 That's what she said. 00:12:05.190 --> 00:12:06.060 She says that on film. 00:12:06.145 --> 00:12:07.710 I, I, I guess I need to make a better record. 00:12:08.400 --> 00:12:14.910 And so between 2018 and 2022, um, she made, she put out more 00:12:14.910 --> 00:12:17.470 songs than she ever did in her whole life, on the back of that. 00:12:17.490 --> 00:12:21.090 And I'm, I guarantee you, there were days when she just had the covers over her. 00:12:21.090 --> 00:12:24.600 Didn't wanna get outta bed, but she put her helmet on, goes to work, and 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.730 just put one foot in front of the other and did it again and again and again. 00:12:29.140 --> 00:12:32.145 And then she won more awards for the work she did in that time period than 00:12:32.145 --> 00:12:34.305 any other time she's had in her life. 00:12:34.305 --> 00:12:36.285 And I think, you know, people don't see that. 00:12:36.285 --> 00:12:40.185 They just see her in her concert and it's a billion dollar concert, and here's 00:12:40.185 --> 00:12:43.024 all these lights, and wow, what a great dancer and she's got so much music. 00:12:43.024 --> 00:12:47.985 But my all time favorite quote, I write quotes on my board every day in class. 00:12:47.985 --> 00:12:49.214 I'm a huge collector of quotes. 00:12:49.214 --> 00:12:51.314 I post them almost every day on social media. 00:12:51.314 --> 00:12:56.055 My all time favorite quote, Michelangelo, you know, uh, sculpted the David, paints 00:12:56.055 --> 00:13:02.040 the Sistine Chapel and he says, if people knew how hard I worked to gain my 00:13:02.040 --> 00:13:03.960 mastery, it wouldn't seem so wonderful. 00:13:04.920 --> 00:13:08.490 And I think people see Taylor Swift's mastery, but they don't see 00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:09.660 all the stuff that went into it. 00:13:09.660 --> 00:13:12.660 So I just, anyway, I'm inspired by everything she does, but I 00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:16.350 just thought that one story of her is really just a story of grit. 00:13:16.350 --> 00:13:19.740 It's not about talent or her music or anything, it's just about 00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:21.990 like her just, and her resolve. 00:13:22.050 --> 00:13:23.040 Anyway, she's one of my heroes. 00:13:23.790 --> 00:13:26.685 Matt Abrahams: I think that notion, uh, well, one, I think it's great that, that 00:13:26.685 --> 00:13:31.890 you, you take a lesson beyond just the fun and enjoyment of her music, but the, 00:13:31.890 --> 00:13:36.420 the tenacity and the belief in yourself and just hunkering down in doing it, I 00:13:36.420 --> 00:13:37.830 think there's a lesson for all of us. 00:13:38.130 --> 00:13:40.350 And the point about mastery is really fascinating. 00:13:40.350 --> 00:13:43.890 We've, we had a whole episode about mastery and, and really what goes into 00:13:43.890 --> 00:13:47.550 it, and, and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of things that people don't see. 00:13:47.985 --> 00:13:51.735 You write a lot about your desire to continue growing and improving. 00:13:52.185 --> 00:13:54.585 What's one thing that you're working on right now? 00:13:55.575 --> 00:13:56.925 Graham Weaver: So, yeah, great question. 00:13:56.925 --> 00:14:00.345 So, uh, I had this really interesting conversation with my a friend of mine a 00:14:00.345 --> 00:14:04.755 couple years ago, and we were just kind of having banter and, and she asked me, 00:14:04.755 --> 00:14:08.265 she said, you know, if you, if you could have one superpower, what would that be? 00:14:08.265 --> 00:14:10.725 And so I was kinda like, oh, that'd be kind of cool to read someone's 00:14:10.725 --> 00:14:12.345 mind or, you know, whatever. 00:14:12.345 --> 00:14:14.955 And I was playing, and then, and then all of a sudden it got a little bit 00:14:14.955 --> 00:14:18.975 deeper and I said, well, what is actually a superpower I could really develop. 00:14:19.575 --> 00:14:24.645 And what I came up with, the word I came up with was, you know, enlightenment. 00:14:25.035 --> 00:14:27.375 You know, what if, what if I were just more enlightened, you know? 00:14:27.405 --> 00:14:30.015 'Cause what I started to realize, and, and I think this is true for 00:14:30.015 --> 00:14:35.275 everybody is, you know, your whole life is unfolding as, externally, and 00:14:35.275 --> 00:14:37.005 there's events and there's situations. 00:14:37.605 --> 00:14:41.265 And then that life goes through a filter, which is your mind. 00:14:41.325 --> 00:14:44.805 And then, and then what you're processing is your interpretation of those events. 00:14:44.805 --> 00:14:47.250 So this, this thing happened. 00:14:47.730 --> 00:14:48.750 Is this good? 00:14:48.750 --> 00:14:49.620 Is this bad? 00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:52.110 Is this consistent with what I thought was gonna happen? 00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:53.460 Am I upset about this? 00:14:53.760 --> 00:14:55.110 You know, do I feel good about this? 00:14:55.110 --> 00:14:58.920 You know, what, what's the story I have about how my life is supposed to go? 00:14:58.920 --> 00:15:01.260 What's the story I have about what's, you know, what's, what's 00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:02.790 gonna make me happy or successful? 00:15:02.790 --> 00:15:04.860 Or what's the story I have about other people think about me? 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:09.990 And like, I just started to realize like all of that story I'm creating myself. 00:15:10.050 --> 00:15:13.449 And that filter is like pretty much a hundred percent in my control. 00:15:13.969 --> 00:15:16.785 And so, a lot more of my life is in my control than I realize. 00:15:16.785 --> 00:15:19.815 So I started going on this journey, which has been amazing. 00:15:19.815 --> 00:15:21.415 So I've been studying a lot of Buddhism. 00:15:21.455 --> 00:15:24.855 I've been going on meditation retreats, doing journaling and coaching. 00:15:25.275 --> 00:15:27.405 I've been meditating a lot more than I ever did. 00:15:27.405 --> 00:15:31.035 And it's, it is, it is the best journey, I think probably, maybe the most 00:15:31.035 --> 00:15:32.955 important journey that anyone could go on. 00:15:33.015 --> 00:15:35.145 So I'm, I'm not, I'm not there. 00:15:35.145 --> 00:15:36.855 I'm not a enlightened individual. 00:15:36.855 --> 00:15:40.395 I don't know if I ever will be, but I definitely am at least getting closer than 00:15:40.395 --> 00:15:42.645 maybe I was before I started this journey. 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.930 Matt Abrahams: I appreciate you sharing that because that, that for many people, 00:15:45.930 --> 00:15:49.890 that's a very personal quest and, and the tools that you're using are tools 00:15:49.890 --> 00:15:53.610 that, that I personally do a lot of meditating and, and reflecting and, 00:15:53.610 --> 00:15:55.680 and I find there is a lot of value. 00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:59.460 And, and I think in a world that we live in and a place that we live in, we can get 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:04.445 very distracted by lots of shiny objects and ideas, and to really ground ourselves. 00:16:04.445 --> 00:16:04.985 I like that. 00:16:05.165 --> 00:16:07.295 Graham Weaver: You know, it's kind of like, for me at least, it's kind of 00:16:07.295 --> 00:16:08.585 like brushing your teeth, you know? 00:16:08.585 --> 00:16:12.805 You can't just brush your teeth for 8 hours on January 1st and then say, 00:16:12.805 --> 00:16:14.095 I'm good for the year, you know? 00:16:14.205 --> 00:16:18.415 So it's like, it's like almost like I start over every single morning and 00:16:18.415 --> 00:16:22.595 have to kind of reprogram and, you know, meditate, take a cold shower, 00:16:22.595 --> 00:16:23.420 you know, write in the journal. 00:16:23.420 --> 00:16:27.390 Do, do it again, but it, but it does, it has made a, a huge difference. 00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:30.330 Matt Abrahams: Before we end, Graham, I'd like to ask you some questions. 00:16:30.330 --> 00:16:33.060 The first question I'm gonna make up specifically for you, and then the others 00:16:33.060 --> 00:16:34.860 are, are common questions I ask everybody. 00:16:34.860 --> 00:16:35.370 You up for that? 00:16:35.449 --> 00:16:35.970 Graham Weaver: Let's do it. 00:16:36.540 --> 00:16:38.730 Matt Abrahams: So, number one, uh, you're a leader. 00:16:38.730 --> 00:16:41.850 You teach new leaders and work with many. 00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:45.480 What differentiates an exceptional leader from just an average leader? 00:16:46.275 --> 00:16:48.255 Graham Weaver: I would say ultimately when you get past all 00:16:48.255 --> 00:16:52.785 the tactical things, the very, very exceptional leaders give themselves 00:16:52.935 --> 00:16:55.064 permission to fully be themselves. 00:16:55.694 --> 00:16:58.724 So I'll give you a very simple example in my own life. 00:16:58.724 --> 00:17:02.895 So I started, I was asked to teach at Stanford Business School, and so my 00:17:02.895 --> 00:17:07.635 first couple of years I went and watched all the amazing professors here and 00:17:07.635 --> 00:17:09.014 learned and wrote notes and everything. 00:17:09.435 --> 00:17:12.555 And for the first few years I really tried to mimic them. 00:17:12.765 --> 00:17:15.205 And you know, Irv Grousbeck was a mentor of mine. 00:17:15.205 --> 00:17:19.365 And so I tried to do everything that he did and I, I didn't do very well at all. 00:17:19.425 --> 00:17:24.045 And at some point I had this conversation with my executive coach who said, you 00:17:24.045 --> 00:17:30.195 know, Graham, you are gonna be a C plus version of Irv Grousbeck, but you can 00:17:30.195 --> 00:17:32.055 be an A plus version of Graham Weaver. 00:17:32.145 --> 00:17:33.135 And that's enough. 00:17:34.530 --> 00:17:38.310 I think it was the, that's enough part that I didn't believe, which is why 00:17:38.310 --> 00:17:40.380 I was trying to mimic someone else. 00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:43.470 And so I think, you know, if you're in a leadership role, 00:17:43.470 --> 00:17:44.700 you're there for a reason. 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.620 You know, you are an incredibly special person and you're different 00:17:49.620 --> 00:17:53.820 than anyone else, and those differences are what make you amazing. 00:17:54.540 --> 00:18:00.254 And giving yourself permission to fully be yourself is going to be where you're 00:18:00.254 --> 00:18:04.274 this incredible light and you're gonna do something different than someone has, 00:18:04.334 --> 00:18:05.955 you know, someone has never done before. 00:18:06.675 --> 00:18:10.995 And so I think it is that permission and it is realizing like that's enough. 00:18:12.435 --> 00:18:16.334 Matt Abrahams: That's really powerful, that we just need to be ourselves and 00:18:16.334 --> 00:18:21.195 through being ourselves, we can succeed in teaching and leadership and lots of 00:18:21.195 --> 00:18:23.355 other areas, but we get in our own way. 00:18:24.314 --> 00:18:25.365 Uh, question number two. 00:18:25.635 --> 00:18:28.215 Who is a communicator that you admire and why? 00:18:29.730 --> 00:18:32.950 Graham Weaver: I'll go with um, Irv Grousbeck who teaches here. 00:18:33.020 --> 00:18:37.740 So Irv, I think he's been teaching here for 35, 40 years and he was a very 00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.870 successful businessman before that. 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.149 Probably best known for owning the Celtics or being one of the 00:18:42.149 --> 00:18:43.290 owners of the Boston Celtics. 00:18:43.590 --> 00:18:45.240 Anyway, he was my professor here. 00:18:45.300 --> 00:18:48.090 I was a case guest in his class for 12 years, and he was also 00:18:48.090 --> 00:18:49.004 the one who got me into teaching. 00:18:50.070 --> 00:18:55.110 In terms of his communication, he just models exactly what I would want to teach 00:18:55.110 --> 00:18:56.460 others and what I wanna do for myself. 00:18:56.460 --> 00:18:59.909 He's super direct, he's clear, he's authentic, he's himself. 00:19:00.510 --> 00:19:07.080 And, and then, and then like when you're in his presence, you just feel like you're 00:19:07.080 --> 00:19:10.500 the most important person in the world and that you're the only person in the world. 00:19:10.530 --> 00:19:13.950 For that period of time when you're with him he just makes you feel that way. 00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:19.440 And he's always been the voice of you can, you can do this and I believe in 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.650 you, and that, that might sound cliché, but when there's someone like that that 00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:26.280 you admire in your early twenties and trying to start a business and it's not 00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:30.930 going that well, you know, having someone like that just kind of keep you grounded 00:19:30.930 --> 00:19:34.350 and reminding you that you got this, you know, he's, he's just been unbelievable. 00:19:34.350 --> 00:19:37.170 So he would be the person I'd pick. 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.190 Matt Abrahams: Yeah, so Irv has got quite the reputation around here, and many 00:19:41.190 --> 00:19:44.970 people say, and share exactly what you did, is when you're speaking with him, 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:50.580 you are in that spotlight and feel that it is just you and him in that conversation. 00:19:50.580 --> 00:19:53.850 And, and that's a, that, that's a very powerful thing to, to feel like you 00:19:53.850 --> 00:19:56.490 have somebody's full attention and that they're really there for you. 00:19:57.690 --> 00:19:58.560 Final question. 00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:04.110 What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe? 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.990 Graham Weaver: So the, the first one would be understanding what is your truth? 00:20:10.290 --> 00:20:12.750 What is, what is your, what is your truth? 00:20:12.750 --> 00:20:14.370 What do you wanna say about this situation? 00:20:14.370 --> 00:20:15.360 And getting clear on that. 00:20:16.050 --> 00:20:18.420 Giving yourself a little bit of space where you're not reacting, 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:21.900 but you're, you're kind of realizing what is your highest value and what 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.690 is the thing you wanna say, and then speak that truth is number one. 00:20:25.530 --> 00:20:27.810 Two would be create safety. 00:20:28.210 --> 00:20:32.190 You know, people are gonna hear that feedback when they're safe. 00:20:32.310 --> 00:20:35.010 And you know, the, the opposite of that would be they're not gonna hear 00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:38.340 anything if they feel attacked or they feel belittled or something. 00:20:38.340 --> 00:20:41.400 So focus on, you know, Matt, the reason I wanna address this with 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.330 you is I really care about our relationship and I wanna see what's 00:20:45.330 --> 00:20:46.620 coming for a long period of time. 00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:48.180 You know, that, that's what I mean by safety. 00:20:48.350 --> 00:20:51.930 And then third is be clear on what you're asking. 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.285 So like, we're having a conversation, so what, you know? 00:20:56.955 --> 00:21:01.324 What is the specific thing that I am asking of you? 00:21:01.385 --> 00:21:03.915 Or what are the next action items? 00:21:04.485 --> 00:21:08.774 People forget that and they leave thinking they had this whole conversation. 00:21:08.774 --> 00:21:11.565 The other person's like, oh yeah, that was lovely, but they missed the whole point. 00:21:11.565 --> 00:21:13.514 So I think those are, those would be the three. 00:21:13.514 --> 00:21:17.085 And I, I think, I think clarity is compassionate. 00:21:17.145 --> 00:21:21.285 So the more clear, even if it's not what they want to hear, the more direct and 00:21:21.285 --> 00:21:23.925 clear you can be, the more compassionate that is for the other person. 00:21:24.630 --> 00:21:27.090 Matt Abrahams: I love that idea of clarity leads to compassion. 00:21:27.090 --> 00:21:30.300 It's, it's operationalized, uh, compassion in some way. 00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:34.440 Uh, as you have alluded to in many of your responses, it's 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:35.760 really about introspection. 00:21:35.760 --> 00:21:36.810 First, what's your truth? 00:21:36.810 --> 00:21:37.770 What needs to be done? 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:43.260 And, and that is striking and I wanna make sure everybody hears that, that you 00:21:43.260 --> 00:21:48.240 are better with others when you are first true to yourself and know what that is. 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:52.500 And then being clear and creating safe space for you to have those conversations. 00:21:52.919 --> 00:21:54.179 Graham, this has been fantastic. 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.760 I, I really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you. 00:21:57.120 --> 00:22:01.139 The idea that we have to look within before we, we manage people 00:22:01.139 --> 00:22:02.580 externally really makes sense. 00:22:02.955 --> 00:22:03.855 I love your energy. 00:22:03.855 --> 00:22:07.754 I love that you both meditate and love Taylor Swift and 00:22:07.754 --> 00:22:08.895 that you can learn from both. 00:22:08.895 --> 00:22:11.055 So thank you for your time and thank you for your insight. 00:22:11.115 --> 00:22:11.745 Graham Weaver: Thanks for having me, Matt. 00:22:11.745 --> 00:22:12.345 It was a lot of fun. 00:22:14.895 --> 00:22:17.865 Matt Abrahams: Thank you for joining us for a special Rethinks episode of 00:22:17.865 --> 00:22:20.115 Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. 00:22:20.325 --> 00:22:25.125 This episode was produced by Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. 00:22:25.395 --> 00:22:26.985 Our music is from Floyd Wonder. 00:22:27.075 --> 00:22:29.504 With special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. 00:22:30.015 --> 00:22:33.255 Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. 00:22:33.405 --> 00:22:35.415 Be sure to subscribe and rate us. 00:22:35.655 --> 00:22:37.755 Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram. 00:22:38.085 --> 00:22:42.105 And check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language 00:22:42.105 --> 00:22:44.205 learning content, and our newsletter. 00:22:44.625 --> 00:22:48.195 Please also consider joining our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community 00:22:48.255 --> 00:22:51.045 at fastersmarter.io/learning. 00:22:51.465 --> 00:22:54.705 You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, 00:22:54.795 --> 00:22:57.075 our AI coaches, and book club.