Unknown: I mean, I blew my headphones off. I was playing
just raw what I could hear, you know, I haven't played raw
cymbal volume in years.
Oh, it's, it's a drum set is like a jet airliner taking off,
you know. I mean, it's like a jet airlines. 100 is like 120
decibels. And the average drum set could be somewhere between,
you know, 85 to 120 the way I played is around 120
thankfully, the singer Roger the Huey, yeah, I think the same
thing happened to him. He couldn't hear either, so we're
just looking at each other. He's like, Yeah, I got nothing
either. I'm like, okay, the show has to go on. I said,
I gotta go on. I had to play it him in those moments. But it's
not, you know, it's not as not a pool you want to swim in. That's
right,
yeah, dead battery. Dead battery.
That's what it was
in the little box that I plugged into,
yeah, man. And I didn't even notice a gym. Of course, I was
talking to a million people not really Paying
attention. But this is the
rich Redmond show you.
Every now and then, around midnight,
the more river I ask you to feeling right. I
pull a jug and a flat top out that back
porch fit To
get loud. Like
today, that dirt deer on your boots.
Can't hear already better, get here
fast, drop a lead food on that gas stolen Well, He's gone
tomorrow already. Already
can make you wanna stop.
Out little hometown dirt stone, like a bag of church stone wanna
cover head On tomorrow, storm,
a stone.
Nice, so much for getting levels.
We might do two versions of it, but that was
pretty cool. It felt so good. Man, I couldn't stop
that. Was just so easy. Man, you have like a just a feel of all
fields.
Man, you kidding me to play that song with you? So cool. Man,
that's bad.
Great job, man. I think I've known some of your live
drummers. Ethan Harris, yeah,
I was, oh, man, yeah. He played for me for a bit,
man. Ethan's viral.
So Ethan's the guy that had the,
he's how to get fired from a gig. He
had the bunk, yeah, the bonk sound. What's the bonk sound?
He's
basically at, yeah, down in he's recording down on Broadway, and
he's got like, an SPDs next to him, yeah, with samples on it.
So yeah. And it's like, what song are they playing?
I forget, but he put the bonk in the weirdest of places, and it
just rubbed everybody. It just tickled everybody. And
they also. On a diet, yeah? And it became a thing, and now he's
got a huge following,
yeah? See that? I texted him not longer. I was like, dude,
congratulations. Yeah. I was like, his stuff has totally
blown up. So I
remember he we, he goes, Hey, man, can I ask you some
questions? A couple years ago, we went to go get some sushi in
the middle of the day, and I said, do this. Don't do that.
Try this. Blah, blah, blah, throw this thing against the
wall. Always prepare. Show up. He's doing great, doing great,
you know, yeah, it's
crazy. All my drummers that I've had have, you know, done stuff
with you, and have been taught by all kinds, you name them.
Man. Anthony Pendle, he drummed for me for a while. Yeah, oh my
god, yeah. He's up in Pennsylvania now, and his dad
was a detective, and he wanted to go in that line of work and
get off the road. So I still know that. So talk to him all
the time. Great, dude. Yeah. But yeah, is he playing still? No. I
mean, he plays around, I think just at home, but he's totally
switched. Got off the road, you got it? Got it out? Yeah, he
did. And he's, he's a detective up up north in Pennsylvania, a
detective, yeah, so he had to put his time in. I mean, that
doesn't happen, no, huh? He worked as he worked his way up.
So did you know him when you lived there?
Yeah, and then he moved down, played with me for quite some
time.
Yeah, I did not know that. That's super cool. So Anthony
Ethan, and then do you have a nice stable of guys now that
you've had
for a while? Man, so right now, actually, I'm three piecing it
lately, which is really cool. And so bass, drums and me on
electricity, like a power trio, no, yeah. And so, like, the
rush of country music, man,
you're like, you know, Betty Lee,
ZZ Top, I'll just myself out. Yeah, you like the police, yes,
for sure, my bass player has been with me for like, over 10
years. That's great. And I've had a couple great drummers, and
I kind of have a bank. Here's the thing too. Is like, when I
would go in between deals or whatever, you know, it's, it's
difficult to you, it's difficult to keep a steady, the same guys,
when you don't have a counter full of dates at the time, I
know, you know, yeah. So I kind of have a bank of guys that I
love, and I'll see, you know, people hopping around different,
you know, yeah.
So why do you why would you want to not have a full band in that
scenario? Is it just financial? Is it, well, I deficiency.
Typically I'm a four piece. I always was a four piece, and
then it must have been like a fly date or something that I was
like, I think I want, we need. I had to cut down on some costs
just a couple years ago, and I did a three piece and was kind
of, you know, I was a little intimidated by that, because,
you know, the guitar player, you gotta cover a lot of ground, big
time, yeah, and
Anson, but you got it. You've got the chops, you have the
time, you got the feel, you got the technique, you got the
musicianship.
Hey, if Eddie can do it, yeah,
well, thank you. But the thing of it is, was I was mind blown
after I did that first gig, or first show, I was like, I love
the space.
What? How long ago was this?
Maybe, like, four years ago, probably did the first three
piece, and it hadn't been three piece this whole since then. You
know, I'll do it here and there. But I love the space that it,
that it creates, because it's not just notes and music and
just a wall of sound. It lets the music breathe and to play
the right spot, to serve the song, play the right part in the
right place, and free some stuff up, and not being afraid of some
space, and letting the music like kind of that's a little
heady. But, you know, I'm saying,
You Speak for yourself. I mean, here we are in the songwriting
capital of the world. You got great music, you got great
songs, great melodies. You're a great singer, you're a great
player. So, I mean, yeah, look at, look at the amount of noise
that rush made, the amount of noise that the police made three
guys. So you get these really well written songs
in rush, I think was Johnny Rabb, who said that he thought
all of them upon listening to the record. He didn't realize
that Neil was the only one doing the percussion. That's what
Johnny Rab said. He says, I thought it was all the guys
actually overdubbing and doing all the percussion. He's like, I
had no idea it was just him. And then you have Getty, that
handled synth on the feet, synth on the hands base and vocal
duties, that's a heavy thing. So that's, you know, you still got
a ways to
go. Me, man, three guys on the road, and you do any and you
could, you do save some money, and if you got to jump in the
van, you got to jump in a van, sure, you got to be like that
forever, you know, yeah, you know. I mean, I don't want to
be, I don't think I want to be a three piece forever, because
there's times where I miss that other guy. And big venues, like,
if we're playing, like, big, big shows that I'm gonna have my
other guy, my other rhythm guy, I'd
like, I'd like to see a three piece, though. You know, you
fronting this to three. That would be interesting. Yeah, let
us know you don't see that. Let
us know where we can see a show. Man,
I know it. I know it. I think if you're gonna be. On all
month. Bengaliher.com,
probably right, yeah. So that, Gallagher, no, you don't know
watermelons, yeah, I left him in a truck.
It's $1,000 fine if you say his name wrong or put
that in the rider. No, you do put the pronunciation in there,
and then you remind him before the radio guy walks on and he
says, Ladies and Gentlemen, Ben
Gallagher, it's like, Come on, man, we just talked about it.
I know. So radio people are not very small
Jim, that is who we're talking to 14 years in Nashville,
hailing from Camp Hill, Pennsylvania. It's an area of
the state he calls pencil, Kentucky. Pencil, pencil tucky.
Man, a lot of Pennsylvania, I'll call pencil tucky. Yeah,
because,
I mean, you're you and I are from the like, I'm familiar with
that area, Lancaster. Oh, yeah, it's not Lancaster, it's
Lancaster. That's right, and you're right, Jim, is it Amish
or
Amish? I say Amish, but it is Amish. Yeah. So,
yeah, they make great snacks. They really they make great
furniture. Pies, oh, peanut butter pretzels. Did you ever
hear
the restaurant called the good and plenty? Oh, yeah, remember
that that's not around anymore. No, it's because we used to eat
there when
I was a kid. Maybe you could start one. It's a long time ago.
Jim, I don't I
don't need any more businesses to start. I'm good with ones I
have. Yes, so,
man, thank y'all for having me. Thank you so huge honor for me
to be sitting here with you. Kidding me, man,
you know what I got to I listened. We really appreciate
it.
You're a singer, you're a songwriter, you're a guitarist,
you're a recording artist, you're a viral social media
phenom. 35 million views on YouTube, Instagram and Tiktok of
you playing that opening riff. You're keeping, you're keeping
the chicken pick and thing alive, man, you know, and you're
bringing it to a whole new audience. Because, because, you
know, in the record bin, if your record was at sound warehouse or
at one of these old school Tower Records. It would be in the
country section, but you're mixing all sorts of stuff in
there. You got a bunch of rock players, miles McPherson,
playing the drums for you in the studio. He's a rocker covered in
tattoos. You know what? I mean, come on. So your your music is
very genre bending. And that song that we just played is
called stomp. And is that at Radio right now? Or was it at
Radio? No, actually,
that song Never went to radio, but bullet is right. But bullet
is our most recent single, but on digitally, that's not a radio
yet either. Okay, hopefully,
yeah, so. And then you have another, a couple of great songs
that our friend Neil Thrasher wrote. And not only did he What
is the song? It's about a cowboy man, still a few cowboys left.
Yeah, you can always tell a Neil thresher melody. You could smell
it a mile
away, a mile he's got a thing. He has a thing, dude, I'll tell
you why I owe so much to Neil. He is. I mean, we started
writing over 10 years ago, and we hit it off, and I knew who
Neil was, obviously on all of y'all records, you know, I was
like, when we look at the credits, man, there's, like, my
favorite songs, anyways, just total God thing. We ended up,
you know, getting connected through Jim katino When I was
signed at Sony and and then that deal went sideways, which we can
talk about. But the thing about Neil is, you know, when you go
in and out of deals and you have a lot going on, and then all of
a sudden something happens, and you have a blip, that's the
industry, right? And then all of a sudden your phone quits
ringing. You know, that's just how it is. Well, guess what? The
one guy that kept writing with me, with that one, I didn't have
a publishing deal anymore, and I didn't have a record deal
anymore before I got the new one, was Neil Thrasher. Look at
that. And it's like this. Look at it from his side of things.
You know, I couldn't go at that time. There's like, nobody going
to radio. And still, really now, unless you had a deal, you know,
you can't, you're not going to have a massive thing at radio
without any machine or money behind you, that's like pretty
much impossible, yeah? So what would be in it for somebody like
that to spend a massive hit song writers, wild, widely
successful, to spend days writing songs with an artist
that has no vehicle to make that writer any money, because it's a
business to, you know, and
I was gonna say because he did it, because he saw something,
and he probably had fun. He probably had a good time doing
he's done it for the right
reasons. We hit it off. And I never forgot that, where I was
like, Man, this guy's right. This the, you know, the Neil
Thrasher is right with me. And I have nothing. It was in between,
shit, man, nothing going on. And we would write, write, write,
and always talked about working together in the studio. Fast
forward, he's him and his cousin Patrick are now producing all my
music, and it's like a better fit than I could have ever
dreamed of.
Yeah, that Patrick comes up with some really good drum parts.
I've had to cop some things on the demos. He. Got a very
musical mind, and the parts are really, you know, well thought
out. And a lot of times I can't beat them. So, you know, I just
try to redmonize them a little bit here and there, but it's the
framework is all laid out, which
is nice. Hit him with a redmonism.
What would be a redmonism? I
think it's more just like a spirit and an energy, you know,
just taking whatever is there and just trying to flock them,
yeah, sell it, you know, like a door to door salesman. You know
what I mean,
Redmond calling chuckles, the Richmond all
sorts of stuff people. Because they'll look at the name and
they'll be like, hello, Mr. Richmond. Yeah, I get that a
lot, because they just meld them together, yeah.
What's up? Red Richmond? Yeah, yours is a very difficult name
to say. Even in the beginning of this, we probably need to recut
it at some point the new intro, because I sound like I'm saying
the rich Redmond show. That's what it is. And the Redmond you
gotta do, oh, yeah. Gotta get the do out. Yeah.
So support live music, hire live musicians. Well, heck yeah, man.
So now you had, you had the guys on your record, mind that
there's, we got these teams for those don't know. There's these
little studio musician groups. There's these little cliques of
guys, and they really are, like some of a second family. And the
amount of time they spend together, they really are almost
like a first family it's like at 9am every morning, you got to be
at the studio getting drum sounds. You get your coffee the
you know, the number charts are passed out, and these guys know
that they got to make magic in a short period of time. So you had
miles on drums,
yep, this last session, we just cut a week from yesterday ago,
had miles on drums, bring a Dell Oh on nice base. Schoenfeld on
electric, oh, I had him Yeah, Tom Bucha back, Tom lecture,
fantastic. Worked with for a lot of years. Yeah and Jed. Hughes
on acoustic, Jed, yeah, man, first time I used Jed. Man. Was
I blown away?
He was awesome. Yeah, anything with a string, he's got
it. Man and Tom. I mean, Adam and Tom have been, have worked
with for several years. Those guys. Is such a great
combination with those two. Love it. And
if you use a real tambourine, I will come bring the best signing
tambourine you've ever heard
in your life. I'm here for that.
It's, it's golden. Man, well, that you can't go wrong with
that team. Man, that is fantastic. So how did it start
for you? Man, you know, I know that. You know I listened to
your conversation that you know, Jim produced on our friends
podcast. Try that in a small town podcast. You got a super
interesting story. You came up listening to 90s country, and I
learned that you kind of were, like, into our stuff. You like
the relentless record, which was the sleeper record for
us, which I never understood that, because I would, I'm not
kidding, dude, I wore those records out. That's massively
Wow. And so yeah. Grew up strictly, strictly on 90s
country, and then got into rock and roll and all y'all records.
Eric Church, the early Keith Urban, Golden Road, all that. Oh
man, what a record. Yeah, Golden Road and be here. Good stuff,
yeah, but yeah, the relentless record. Why was it a sleeper?
Was amazing.
Well, we appreciate that, but that's, yeah, it was just, there
was some, we had a cash on that. It was, it was, I don't know if
Johnny Cash was like,
break everything on touch, wasn't it? And relentless was on
there, was back in the cigarette on there, maybe,
yeah. But relentless was kind of just like, and there was, like,
there was like, a ballad that was on there that was a little
bit of a stinker. We it was a sophomore slump. We were just
like, Oh no, is it over? You know what? I mean, we
cried, huh? Left until we cried, was until you cried? Was that
the one? Yeah, that's a good
song. I know it was good song. Kayla's song, yeah, he was on
that. And I don't mean it was a bad song, it just it did not
perform like you wanted it to. But
you know what aged well, yeah, it does. I mean, that song still
has a lot of relevance it, you know, brings a tear to my eye.
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean Kayla songs and Neil's songs. We're in
the
songwriting capital of the world, so just in those early
days, Jason was being pitched, so like, hundreds of songs per
record, and then he and Michael have to get it down to, like,
maybe 50 songs. And they're driving around, and their cars
are listening to it. They're waiting it. They're way seeing
what's what they're going to be singing in the middle of the
night, or when they wake up in the morning. And then it gets
down to 20, and then we would cut 15, and then, you know, you
would have three or four singles off of each record. You know
what I mean. But what? Quite a
process. That's truly how it works. They're like, they're
literally driving around.
That's why, that's one of Michael's processes is to just
internalize it's a great because you're listening to music as a
consumer would, yeah, like, what is this ear? Is there an earwig
melody? You know, there's only 12 notes. How are we going to
put them together in a way that is memorable, that the soccer
mom and the account? Dad are going to attach themselves
to palatable for everybody,
yes, but they're trying to figure out they're putting
themselves in the prospective audience, in the shoes of of,
yeah, not necessarily, what would resonate with me? Yeah,
like Michael, or anybody like that. Just Yeah, interesting.
Pretty crazy,
Rich. Do you? You've been in countless, countless sessions.
Do you remember those days of cutting that music then? Or no,
yeah, you do. Yeah, because, because, you know, as you were
having that chat with, you know, with Tully and Kurt, it's like,
you know, we're, we're recording this all in this same building.
I know that has so much legs and so much history. It's like, I
mean, Travis tritt did a lot of his records there. And, my God,
you know that going back to highway 101, and all the early
70s stuff, the same wood paneling on the wall, a lot of
the same, you know, microphones, obviously, the same, coffee
maker, coffee mugs, the building has burned. The building has
flooded. We keep going there, because there's something
special and different and like, almost spiritual about and we
all converge in that one place. We know what our job is, and and
it's, it's, and it sounds different from some of the other
high tech places where, you know, you know the coffee makers
are, you know, the coffee machines at Blackbird are $5,000
you know what I mean, as they should. It's, you know, and it's
right next door, but it's just it is a cool thing to have that
history where it's the, you know, the same cast of
characters. The only thing that would change would be there
would be a pool of two to three steel players that would have
their strengths. If it was a traditional country song. It
might be one steel player. And if it was my more forward
thinking, and it required more like, make the steel guitar
sound like, almost like another instrument, that would be
another and then three or four acoustic guitar players would
come in over the years. But for the most part, it was the same
group of guys, the eight guys on the floor. Michael Pete an
assistant, and that has changed a couple times over the years.
And then, of course, all the you know, the publisher comes in,
the Jason comes in, he might have a small entourage. There
might be a small video crew traipsing through, and you got
to make the thing happen. You got three hours. And we do two
songs every three hours. That's just an awesome process. And
then the years go by, and you go, wow, we've got a body of
work of, like, I don't know, 160 70 songs or something. That's
insane. And, and you're aiming, you're in line to do that, man.
You're, you're at that first part of your career, which is so
exciting, you know, and you're on to something. You're, you're,
you're taking country, and you're taking rock, and you're
throwing it into a blender, and, and you're like, This is me,
because there was a time in your career where people were wanting
you to be something that didn't resonate with you. So tell us
about that
big time. Yeah, I signed a record deal in 2014
at Sony Nashville, yeah, and a couple months after I signed,
the CEO got blown out, and there was a couple months before the
new guy came in. Well, changing of the guard. When there's a
regime change like that, usually it's clean house, because the
new guy, right? He wants to come in and, you know, put his
fingerprints all over him, do his thing, right? Well, that's
terrible for a new artist, because it's terrible for
business. Yeah, it's like, where are we going to live here? You
know what's going on. So I ended up making it through that cup.
But it was never right. It was never right when, when Randy
came in, probably because he didn't have, you know, his stamp
on me, he wasn't the first one to sign me at the company. So we
cut and cut and cut music. And I don't know it was like, we
probably cut 18 songs, never went to radio with anything, and
put out an EP over that five years, and cut some new stuff.
Everybody was fired up about it, and then all of a sudden,
something went,
somebody on the higher up said, Man,
Ben needs to be doing this more slicked, you know, pop country
at the time was, like, really shiny shirts, yeah, Ben needs to
be doing this type of thing, you know. And it's like they called
and said, Hey, wants you to go back in? And I was like, I'm not
going back in. This is I don't know what else I would do. This
is what I do, and it's not my way or the highway I was willing
to bend. But you can't put, you can't put like, a vocal like
mine, and put it on this super slick track. It wasn't natural
to me. It wasn't organic. And I thought, I always thought the
fans would be able to tell in a second, and it's like, I'll be
damned if I'm going out on the road every weekend for the next
30 years. Yeah, playing stuff I can't stand that's not me,
because
if it hits you, are on the hook to perform that for the rest of
your life. Because country music fans are loyal, loyal, the most
loyal. Yes, the most loyal, which is a wonderful thing, you
know, because if you're wearing a headset Mike, and you're
dancing and you're bye, bye bye, then you have to go into acting
or something else, because it's not gonna that's, it's, it's a
snapshot in time where you can get three, you can get three
decades out of what we do,
yeah, which is amazing, totally man. And it's like they just
didn't get what I do. And that's okay, not everybody's gonna get
it, but it said, I've never chased anything. I just don't
always have done what I do, and I've pushed the boundaries. I
think it's great that you can evolve an artist and you know,
but it's like I asked out of the deal, which was an emotional,
heavy time man who's gonna, who wants to ask out of a major
record deal, because everyone is
trying to get that thing, and when you do get it, it is like
winning the lottery. No matter how talented you are, it's very
difficult to get a
record deal. That's right, yeah? And that's just the beginning of
everything. And that, yeah, oh yeah, man, that's just the
beginning. But if you don't have the right team, right, it takes
a village, dude. You can't do it alone. It takes the right team
and a village. And if that's not firing on all cylinders, like
you're gonna have major bumps in the road, and I knew it, it was
a gut feeling, man, where it's like, something's not right
here. Gonna go in again. It's like they just don't it's not
the song, it's not the production, it's just they just
don't get what I do, and that's okay. It was time to go, and I
asked out, and thankfully, walked with some masters, which
was, which doesn't often happen, because they knew that I had,
yeah, they screwed me around for a long time and at that, but
you're still the tender age of maybe 33 years old, which is
amazing.
It's a good thing. Yeah, man, you get the youth,
and you got a great voice. It sounds like you gargle with
razor blades. Very very extra, very marketable.
Oh, voiceover could be in your your future as well. That's a
little raspy. You got characters and stuff like that you can
conjure
up, I guess. Don't
spread them thin. Jim, well, you know
that's that's what I know. Too much on me. Yeah, that's right.
What's your schedule like during the week? Do you try to write
every day.
Right now I'm in major studio mode. Okay, so you're recording
mode. So yeah, like today, I was doing vocals all day, today with
Neil, with Neil and Patrick, we're in a good spot. We're
knocking them out. And I'll, after I leave here and go home,
I will start digging into writing the solos and intro
riffs, which is, I'll get into guitars next week, and then I'll
do, and I'll play all the riffs and lead parts and stuff on
that. But I get pretty in the weeds about,
you're a guitar guy, I mean, and that's, that's the thing that
impressed me. I heard you play that first time, and I was like,
oh, that's, I haven't heard that in quite
some time. Come along, and, yeah, since Keith, Keith,
I mean, Brad, was like, Oh, yeah. But, I mean, here's my
question, what's well, I'll first ask this as you get into
Guitar World, why, you know the chicken picking type stuff,
obviously you're proficient at why wouldn't somebody do, like,
bring in some EVH finger tapping and all that stuff. Have you
ever tried that, like, in terms of just a totally different
sound and merging the two styles to be cool, to get it? That
would be really cool. Because I always thought, like, you know,
oh man, if Eddie Van Halen ever did like, a duet with Ricky
Skaggs, Wouldn't that just be amazing. It would be, don't just
be incredible to have seen you laughing at
me. Jim is just just, he's really selling it.
He's rolling his eyes back like The Exorcist.
He really wants to hear that he does pleasure. We could do it
with AI. I mean, we totally, I
actually made a picture through AI of Eddie Van Halen and Ricky
Skaggs. It's some it's on my Facebook, yeah, my God. And I
said, If only that could have happened. Because, I mean, you
know, because you have, like, the Bluegrass really fast
picking and in conjunction with what Eddie did, I mean, you
know, just revolutionizing the guitar sound. I mean, that's, I
don't know, totally, so you're welcome if it works.
I mean, dude, Neil and Neil and Patrick are, you know, Neil's a
singer, a singer's singer. I mean, his demos sound like
records like LD would be like, Wow, I gotta, I gotta beat that.
Or I gotta, I gotta try to come close to it. Or, you know, it's
just, he's got, like, an unfair advantage. I mean, he's selling
the song with his he can
really sell the song. So he's that's got to be pretty awesome
for him to really just, like, hover over that and make sure
that quality is there. And then when you go to your guitar
stuff, he's just kind of, he's overseeing it, right? He's
overseeing it. But he's like, this, all right, I'll spend a
couple hours, like, getting a solo, like, right? Where I feel
like I want it, where it's not phoned in, like it's like, I
feel like it's fitting the song, right? And then, and I'll play
it, and be like, play again, play and just start humming a
different melody line in one certain spot. He's not playing
it, he's doing it in his head. And then I'll be like, Oh, dude,
I love that. And. Transpose it into that. So we kind of ping
pong like and Patrick too, but Neil on the on the melody lines,
and he's such a great singer, just doing vocals with with them
today. Yeah, it's making me a better singer. Being in the
studio with guys like that, you know, can take my stuff to the
next level, because you're surround yourself with somebody
that's, you know,
surround yourself with greatness, yeah. Now, when you
do your guitar, so you say you're writing things, so do you
do? You plan everything, note for note, and then you've got to
just execute. Or are you going for, like, ad, you know, Latin,
ad libitum, you know, like we're ad libbing in the moment. Let's
hear that back. And then you're just going for it, and then
trying to find a magical one with both. Yeah, okay, both.
So I'll come in with, like, A, B and C options before I play it
to them. And it's like, All right, here's where I'm and it
takes a while to get there, just because I'm I'm nutty about it,
man, yeah, well, it's for
all time. You're gonna hear yourself in target. You're gonna
hear yourself in restaurants, elevators, I hope supermarkets.
I
want to love it when it comes on as much as I love you know what
I mean? Yeah, and so now play it for them and see which one. And
then some takes, dude, you know, it'll take me. I've done that. I
saw those 100 times before on tape. Oh, wow. Well, tape, but
you know what I mean? You know, just to get the right one where
it's like, no, that's not right, the time is not right. Does not
hit me right, or that bend is not where it needs to be, and
they can fix it, but it's like, it's not the same. What take
looking for that magic take, which is in the weeds you could
drive yourself. It drives them nuts. Ask Neil and Pat next time
about doing guitars for me,
there's actually, if you ever watch the documentary Metallica
did back in the early 90s, some kind of monster, no, no. Even
before that, this was they did. They put out a big box set
documenting the the creation of the Black Album. Nice. And Kirk
is actually trying to come up with a guitar solo for the
unforgiven. And Lars is in the background. And the camera crews
like, getting, you know, trying to get in, in the moment, takes
of Kirk just trying to find that solo and get Lars is in the back
listening to this, like, cringing, because Kirk is, like,
off in left field, yeah. He's just not fine. He's searching.
And then, like, Kirk, kind of, you know, you know, Lars is
cringing, doing these kinds of things and then making sure that
Kirk's not seeing them. And then Kirk finally looks over Lars is
like but I mean, they spent 10 months in the studio, making
that album, creating the songs.
That's insane. He's not writing the songs in the studio. Yeah,
that's a world that we're in today's day and age of
Nashville. We know nothing about at least, I don't,
for those listening that don't know, they're nothing. We are
the city of efficiency. I mean, the musicians are so good here,
and the process is so streamlined. We are going into
the studio with an agenda, there's a budget, there's a
timeline we execute. We have to paint within the numbers. We
gotta make our Mona Lisas in a certain period of time, which
actually is a good thing. But wouldn't it be cool to go to a
destination studio sometime, like, say, in Jamaica, for like
two weeks, and like, get to the studio till on 11am you've had
your mango and your papaya, you've had your coconut juice.
You hang out there's catering and just chilling. And then at
night, you go to the pool that it's so rare that's never done
that. That's
that would be talk about being in a creative place, yeah, where
you could turn all the bullshit off. Yeah? And there is no, we
only have it till here you get in, locked in, in a creative you
know, it would be unbelievable. Yeah, it's a dream of mine to
make a record like
that'd be cool. Back to my question that we never, we never
asked. Answered this. Okay, guys, why not incorporate those
types of, types of styles, you know, have you ever done like
the finger tapping thing that he does? No, I haven't. I guess
that would be a good rule. That's See, I feel
like, but that was a snapshot in time. The this, it was the
Sunset Strip. It was, you know, it was like, it was, it was a
thing. It was a technique that was attached to that thing.
That's
what made him a Guitar Hero, yeah, yeah, okay, and that's
what put him on the map. Was eruption, yeah, right. It's
true. But, I mean, why not try and bring it in? What would be?
I mean, not only a good two a guitar player can answer that. I
We're drummers, yeah, so, well, it's, what's the answer?
Now, man, it might be the same reason why, like, super fast
double bass is, is going to be gratuitous and not appropriate
for Ben's music.
Well, true, true. But, I mean, country is getting very hard
rockified.
No god, there's some bands out there that are, like, straight
up hanging their hat on, like we are metal with country story,
country lyric, right?
Yeah. It's very interesting, yeah. So, I mean, what? What
would be your like, other than, well, hey, what if I were to try
this? What? What would make you want to try it? See, I kind of,
I lean in there a little bit now, actually, just not to the
extent of the tapping, you know, where I'll do, like, I'm not a
chicken picker. Like, you know, Brent Mason, let's just say him,
right? He's like, Yeah. One of the best yeah of all time. My
chicken pick, my hybrid picking is a little bit, it's not as 90s
country, but there's a flare in there, chicken camp chicken, you
know, where it's not the full blown deal, it's just a hint of
there. And then I feel like I also get a little bit of rock
and like, if you if you listen to some of the solos and some of
the songs, you'll hear every now and then there'll be a little
chicken pick and run type of thing, but then it'll go into,
you know, something that's that's a little more classic
rock esque. I
think it's great. I think you're moving the needle. And so who,
who are your Mount Rushmore. I
was going to say, what song made you pick up a guitar? Ah, yeah,
man. Like, do
you remember that moment? Like, oh, that's what I want
to do. Here's the thing, dude, this is crazy for me. It wasn't
a song, so just growing up around 90s country, but I would,
I would pound on soup cans. Well, did you start as a
drummer? Right? Yeah, yeah, with pencils. My folks thought saw
that. It was like, there's some, you know, some. But nobody in my
family was musical. It's a total God, nothing. Yeah, no kidding,
I'm the black sheep of the family man. Wow, yeah, like John
Anderson song. Oh no, yeah.
Crazy. Then my folks got me a guitar, and I just took to that.
And all all the while, 90s country was playing. You know,
Black Hawk was early, Tim McCarthy records, John Anderson,
Tracy Lawrence, Chris Black, you name it, yes. Yes to all of
that. Not even Brooks, Brooks and Dunn not even one in
specific, just all of it. And that's when I got the bug, early
on and heard Brent at the time. I didn't know a lot of that
stuff was Brent. And I was like, man, sonically, it sounded so
unlike anything I've ever heard. Have you gotten friendly with
Brent? No, I don't know him well. I did session with him
before, and it was fantastic, and it's awesome, but I don't I
haven't spent too much time with him.
Yeah, man. And now, what about
vocals? Who was a guy that, or gal it? That is just like, super
like, whoa.
Vince Gill, yeah. Okay, and I sound nothing like Vince Gill,
but when you hear I was like, Oh, my God, seems
like an angel. But, you know, guitar
wise, too, he makes, makes every note count, yeah. And place that
Liza, Jane, just feels so good. You know, like kids come to me,
they want to learn a train beat. And I say, like, train beats
don't all have to be super fast. This is a mid tempo, like, Damn
skin, skin game. It on skin. Now you got to keep that for three
and a half minutes. And it's a feeling, you know, so, so cool.
Liza Jane, we play that live sometimes, yeah, yeah, that's
chicken figure. That's a good one.
Speaking of train beats, when I did the Huey gig, yeah, we
played Honky Tonk blues, yeah. Did you notice my train beat?
But it was actually more it was, it wasn't a left, right, left,
right. It was on the right. Yes.
Like, it just, it's basically a fast rock beat, but it, you're
mimicking the train going down the tracks. Very consistent,
very good. Jim. Like, don't stop playing, Jim. I'm not going to,
yeah, he's good. Now you're the track Jim. Jim is, I'm not gonna
call him a closet drummer. He is a drummer, he is a drummer
because once you're a drummer, you're always a drummer. But he
hadn't played publicly for 18 years, and then all of a sudden,
he plays in this band at the city winery. And me and my buddy
Luis Espaillat, bass player, we went and had some flatbread and
watched Jim rock out. Man was great. He says he was just like,
it was like, wearing an old pair of shoes. It comes back. You
know,
I took me about three months to prepare for it, you know. And
it's a good thing that I did, because I lost my ears halfway
through.
Oh, that's a nightmare. And he had to play without a click, and
it sounded great. Yeah, we're
playing the tracks with a click, and everything is your anxiety
level. Like, it was literally, like, at this age of my life, I
don't freak out about much anymore. I just literally, it
was right in the middle of a song. We were going from a
couple days off into boys are back in town, and in between is
like a New Orleanian shuffle, kind of things. And I'm I'm
listening to, it's just me and the piano player, and I'm
listening for the cues that he's kind of putting because he
wasn't playing exactly how they did it live, and I was playing
exactly what I listened to, you know? And all of a sudden, I'm
just, I'm listening to what he's playing. Okay? He's coming up to
that part, and all of a sudden, done. I'm going
where he's it's a weird feeling, right?
Well, it's Oh crap. How do I tell everybody I have no ears?
Well, good thing that couple days or boys are back in town.
We don't really need a click. So I can finish that off from pure
memory. But how are we going to do want a new drug that's got a
click, that's got tracks video the whole nine year, the whole
thing is flashing before you're oh gosh, I'm like, a bad place
to be. It was all memory I had because I couldn't hear the
band. I mean, I blew my headphones off. I was playing
just raw what I could hear. You know, I haven't played raw
cymbal volume in years.
Oh, it's, it's a drum set is like a jet airliner taking off,
you know, I mean, it's like a jet airliner was 100 is like 120
decibels. And the average drum set could be somewhere between,
you know, 85 to 120 the way I play it's is around 120
thankfully, the singer Roger the Huey, yeah. I think the same
thing happened to him. He couldn't hear either, so we're
just looking at each other. He's like, Yeah, I got nothing
either. I'm like, okay, the show has to go on. I said
I gotta go on. I had to play it in those moments. But it's not,
you know, it's not as not a pool you want to swim in.
That's right, yeah, dead battery. Dead battery. That's
what it was
in the little box that I plugged into. Yeah.
Man, didn't even notice it. Jim, of course, I was talking to a
million people that really paying attention, but if you're
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make your podcast sound like it should. That was
great. I like that city winery. It's like it's been there
forever, and in the last year I've been there so many times, a
nice little venue. Yeah, that's cool. It's cool thing you ever
played the city never played there, but I've been there.
Yeah. And then, so what kind of venues are you doing now when
you headline. So
it's like, we're in the if we're headlining, it's smaller clubs.
Yeah? It's nice. You know, it's small. The fans are right there
in theaters. Yeah? I like theaters. Um, I love playing
solo acoustic in a theater, yeah? Dead quiet, man. You can
really deliver a song in a in a setting like that, where it's
like, story, lyric and a melody, blowing, blowing it down,
natural verb in a place like that. I, I like theaters because
they're, they're always haunted. And there's, they're usually
they've been there 100 years. I don't do ghosts. You know what?
I mean? Yeah,
there's a lot of ghosts in Pennsylvania,
Gettysburg. Yes, every you ever
see the videos of them driving a Tesla through Lake Gettysburg,
or cemeteries, because Tesla, it can pick up pedestrians right on
the little thing that they have. Yeah, and, you know, people have
driven through, like, old Civil War cemeteries and stuff, and
they're picking up humans. But there's nothing there,
what? Yeah, there's a watch. Look it up on YouTube.
Wow. Another thing to distract myself with.
So, you know you're, you're, I'm trying to think with generation.
Are you a millennial?
Yeah, 33 I was born in 92
Yeah, you might be your I'm an ex.
Yeah, millennial. I guess I'm just trying
to think so when you go to home at night and you watch
television with your family, do you watch YouTube? Or do you
watch, you know, normal TV, Hulu, Amazon Prime, all that
kind of
stuff. Yeah. So usually, like, whenever, whenever I'm done
music, when I'm just like, everything's done for the day.
Be like, I don't know, usually around 830 or nine, and my wife
will we have a 10 month old at home. He goes down, sleeps
really good. Oh, that's great, amazing. God bless you. Put him
down. And then, like 830 or nine, we'll watch one or two
episodes something, and then then that'll be it, yeah, but
we're What do you guys watch? Is there anything good we could be
watching right now? There's a thing on Netflix
that people are talking about
called the waterfront. Oh yeah. What happened to primal? Oh
yeah. I there
for a while. I was on this kick where I just binged this series
called primalism, like an adult animated series about a caveman
that befriends a T Rex and they're like best friends. It
was incredibly violent, and I loved it. That's great.
It's a cartoon. Yeah. We watched a couple of episodes. My wife
and I. Oh,
like, why are we watching this? Seal Team,
SEAL team. What's that
on? I don't maybe Hulu, one of those. Yeah, there's, like, six
seasons or something. Oh, my, that's the one thing I don't
want to get locked in. If it's like, yeah,
oh, man, are you guys like me, where, you know, my wife will
binge watch a lot of she likes to have stuff on in the
background, yeah. So she'll watch a lot of stuff while she's
doing other things. But how could she pay attention
to the plot she does? She's just got that money that I'm all or
not,
we're men. We can't So, I mean, it's like, if I am watching
something, it better grab me in the first five minutes.
Otherwise, I just, I don't wanna pay any attention.
Six seasons is a massive commitment, you know, and
especially if you start watching something at nine o'clock at
night, give me an hour and a half movie in and out. But if I
open up Pandora's box and I'm loving a series and you started
at nine o'clock at night, there's the potential to stay up
way too late and it screws up your whole day. Next day, it can
be dangerous, yeah,
it can be but be dangerous for me. I re watch a lot of stuff,
really, yeah, I have, like, the Marvel movies I've seen hundreds
of times, see
I can't re watch nothing. I feel like I'm wasting my I'm like,
I'm like, Huh? I was like, I can't see that again. It was
great, yeah, but I want to see something else. Yeah,
you'll actually pick up. Like, when you do stuff and you re
watch stuff, as you get older, you pick up other things about
those movies. Like, for example, I'm re watching the matrix all
those movies, I'm picking up a lot of stuff. Are they missed
before?
Yeah, I can see that. Plus, it's great to just see people in
leather,
yeah? Well, even latex, yeah, latex. Have you guys, have you
watched re watch Jaws yet? It's its 50th,
50th anniversary.
Really need to know? Yeah, it's coming
out in the theaters at the end of the month. We should go see
it. Let's go do it.
It'll be a guy's night. We'll go see jaws, and then we'll go to
Robert's Western world. Because Jim has never been to Roberts,
never 20. It's like, what's wrong shot in time, where we'll
wear our pearl snap shirts. You and I will go matching Pearl
snaps. He's
10 gallon Jim. Yeah, I have a head big
enough for it. That's
for sure. Gonna get a fried bologna sandwich and some
crinkle fries. And that occurs original.
You could have got one at Paradise park, but it ain't
there no more. Yeah, how's it to go away? I think didn't
it? Well, I just never got it. Well, bon Joey's got that new
place that used to be merchants, that was one of our, you know,
five star restaurants. And now it's a, it's a really nice
looking stage. The drummer's up super high, and then the singer
is here. Then there's all these, like, parapets where people can
stand. It's like a rock concert. Yeah? It's crazy.
I tell you about my story about jbjs, when I went there, no, I
got recognized,
oh, yeah, yeah, by a fellow drummer.
Yeah. It overlooks the drummer. And my brother and I, and my
brother was visiting, and we were just hanging out and just
listening to the band, and I went over to the rail and was
just watching the drummer because, you know, yeah, and all
of a sudden, he kind of looks up and
he double takes, you're Jim McCarthy, hey, you're Jim
McCarthy. Yes, I am, though, don't ever forget that. Hey,
so Ben, you, you're part of your coming up and your music
education and getting your 10,000 hours is used to play
prisons. That's, that's an amazing tell us about this
story, because that is, like, super cool, super brave, because
I, I have a drummer friend. His name is Zorro. He played with
uh, Lenny Kravitz for a long time, but he does motivational
speeches. He actually did a speech at San Quentin, no kid,
yeah, so you were, but you know you were doing big boy prisons,
right? State?
That's Max security, Max. That's where I'm at, Jim, I'm just
kidding.
Yeah, no, we can talk about that. That's totally cool.
Man. Friend of mine,
back in 2011 his name's Chris Hall. He worked at one of the
state prisons near where I was from, yeah and from. And he
said, Hey, man, we're thinking about doing something different
this year. You ever think about coming and playing for the
inmates? Said, No, I thought about coming and playing for the
inmates. Be completely honest with you, I've never thought of
doing Yeah, no, but it reminded
me of Johnny Cash. And I was like, All right, man. I was 19.
I was like, I'll go in the first one Max security. Bring my
speakers in, solo acoustic. 250 inmates, buddy. Yeah, that's
good. 250 inmates in the gymnasium. I got my speakers set
up half court. Go in there. It was unbelievable. You could hear
a pin drop in that place. Guys are hanging on to every word.
The star for entertainment. Man, captive audience. Yeah, big
time. Where's the symbol? Not out. No, seriously, it was, it
was really moving experience, and that kind of spread to all
the other state prisons in Pennsylvania. So my phone
started ringing to do shows. I was like, Well, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna start doing a prison tour. And I've hit just about all of
them. I did it for 10 years, and then all the ones in the state,
almost. But state, yeah, not. County ones. These are state. I
mean, it's like, I even get it. They give me a necklace. I call
it the OH SHIT button. And it's like they say, Hey, if anything
ever goes down, press that button. You're you run right
into this room right here, and it locks and it'll notify all
the guards on the in the whole prison. They'll come down.
There's no, I've never had an issue, but there could have
been, you never know, you know, but the feedback, man, I got and
on, whether it was new songs or from family members that reached
out, or whatever that had talked to, whoever it was that was, it
was in guys, you know, sometimes I get chance to talk to him
after the show. I'll never forget this. I tell the story
all the time. The dude comes up and says, Man, I've been in here
for 20 years, and I hate country music, but I gotta tell you, the
songs just changed my whole outlook on life. So when I get
here, when I get out of here, I want to chase my dream too. And
it's like, as an artist and a summer, that's why you that's
why you do it, to have a positive impact on somebody
through your music. And you know, to hear something like
that. And then again, that's, that's really what fueled me to
keep going back year after year. You're you got to think, man,
I'm playing songs to guys that are really in their lowest
point, yeah, you mean the darkest of dark. You know, in
there, there's some guys that are, you know, in their 90s,
have been there for life, and they're coming in on
wheelchairs.
Oh, my God, think about it. They're institutionalized at
that point. I mean, eating that food for 90 you remember? You
remember Shawshank, of course. What? That's a movie for dead. I
like to re watch.
Yeah, that's her definite re watcher. Great movie.
I'll get messages from,
you know, when I, when I was doing it, I would get messages
from a family member, hey, talk to Johnny. What's his name? Last
week on the phone, and I haven't heard him that happy in 10
years. He said you took him out of prison for 90 minutes. And
it's like, wow, man. Like, yeah, that's the, you know, that's the
beauty of music. You know, it's so universal, whether it's a bar
or a church or in a prison, you know, to contact, to connect.
You know through lyrics,
sense, it transcends language barriers, cultural
barriers. No doubt,
you know not to take it to the drums. But I always, I always
tell my students, like, look at if you got a mean back beat, you
could travel the world, and you will experience people, places,
cultures, you know circumstances, opportunities
will pra will cross your path. You think it's just just playing
Boom Crack. But if you can do that, and you could play it at
the highest of levels, and you elevate it to high art, and
you're a team player, and you make people's music come to
life, you can travel the world for free, and doors will open
for you. It's like, it's very powerful man. You know that's
that's my version of, no doubt, of of trying to change people's
lives and and you did that, and you felt that. That guy that
said, hey, when I get out, I want to chase my did he tell you
what his dream was? But he never did.
No, but I'll tell you this several times. I will be playing
somewhere in Pennsylvania on a public, public show, and they're
at the merch stand. Afterwards, I'll do a meet and greet, talk
to people and sign. And here comes somebody and says, Hey,
man, my name is so and so I saw you at
the Fayette prison in 2013
and I just got out and saw your coming and wanted to bring my
family. You know, it just meant so much. You know, it's like
that happened. That's happened many times. Man, always wanted
to see a full band, because you're so acoustic. Would never
forget that time came in and played for us back and, you
know, so it's cool. Man, it was a is, you know, it's a gift to
be able to go in there and play and play and share music with,
you know, with those guys. You did that for a decade. Yeah,
COVID was the last year I jacked everything up. And so that year
I filmed them in a studio and sent it, sent each prison one to
where they could play it on the channel, because nobody can come
in. That's cool, man. That one was virtual. And then after
that, it was like, I'm not saying I wouldn't do it again.
I'd love to do an EP live at such and such state prison would
be cool. But 10 years seemed like a good that's a good run.
It's a good run. And for now, I was like, I think I put a cap,
you know, I think
on it for now, go on, on top, like Seinfeld, you
so, I mean, there was nothing like no chicken wire, nothing do
you were just exposed to the prisoners. Oh,
my word. Yeah, it was 15, less than 15 yards away, wow. And
it's like, I tell you what I learned a lot being a musician
and an artist. One time I was playing and I was like, I don't
know, maybe a quarter of the way through the show, and I don't
have anybody with me. It's just. Me myself, and I, I broke a
string, and I'm like, All right, this is the first time, you
know, in a situation like that, there is no tech, there's no
some way that can hand you something else. Shows, got to go
on, man. And you got, I don't know what's going to happen in
here if they get out of hand, right? You know, you're changing
your string and telling them stories, yeah, and talking at
the same time. That's the first time as, like, learned. I'm
thinking, it's like, total anxiety at the time. How am I
going to keep this going? Because if I, if I stop playing,
you know, they're not all friends in there,
but there's guards. There's guards everywhere, right?
Three guards, three guards, three guards. And the leg alert
he's got around his neck, three guards for 250
guys, yeah? And they don't have any stick. They don't have
anything on them. Because, you know, if something gets out of
control, then that, then they don't have them anymore. They're
bare hands. So I do that definitely. It's not overly
guarded, yeah? So I'm thinking, all right, I gotta keep this
show going and and this good vibe that's happening because I
don't want these dudes and these dudes to start, yeah, oh, man,
oh, so I ended up like, changing and talking at the same time and
started saying, I think it was drift away,
give me the B boys free my soul,
and that the whole place is singing now, while I'm finishing
my you did acapella, yeah, just while you're getting them
saying,
because I knew they knew it. So I'm gonna start something
acapella, and that let it is like they're all feeling it
where, then it's not this awkward thing, you know? It's
like, show's got to go on, and I can't lose these guys, or
I don't know what's gonna happen, right? Right, right.
Music. So this is a savage beast.
Oh, my God, that's that's how Dean's go to karaoke song. Are
you serious? Yeah.
So let me ask you, so when you're singing that song, is
there video of this at all? I mean,
on YouTube, there's a mini doc. It's like two minutes long. I
had a guy come in, finally got permission to bring in a camera
and stuff, which was law like hoops to go through, and it's on
YouTube, and it's a little two minute thing, one guy's being
interviewed,
and it shows me going in there and playing it's pretty cool
piece.
I don't understand if majority of the inmates were in this one
location, then the guards were not needed at other locations.
Why didn't they just get a bunch of guards? I don't know. You
know what I mean. If there's 20 guards in the prison and all the
inmates are at the show, they should have 20.
No, they're not all at the show. Oh, I'm playing in front of 250
people. Have a prison that's got 3000 people,
so, like, really well behaved, most likely, hey,
this is like a, like a
reward, no, even the bad can be in there. Yeah. I mean, if
you're under, if you're in the whatever, it's called
solitary, yeah,
I wouldn't last one day, guys.
So the thing is, I gotta ask, and this is the most obvious
question, I think, especially knowing what pays well and what
doesn't in your experience in this industry, not being
specific, were they good paying gigs at least? I mean, because
you can, you want me to do what I'm going to make it
worth my while at least? Yeah, but some shows, you just do it
because you love
it, man, oh, yeah, of course. But you know, you gotta still
make a living. Yeah,
that's different. Those shows are just different. They're in a
different category, though, yeah, philanthropy, yeah,
there's just a different, you know,
it's more. They gave you chops as an entertainer.
Learn so much just from that story manager is stuff like that
was all the time. And then route one I had, I did have one that
was like, I don't know how this is gonna go. And they, they
weren't really into I would play, like, think I broke into
some like, country boy can't survive, or something like that.
I'd play an old Merle song. I'd do mostly originals, but a
handful of covers, but they didn't really like the old
school country music covers, you know? And I was like, and I
could kind of vibe that I'm reading the crowd, and I'm like,
All right, well, maybe I'll just they don't like that. I'll do a
little more, I'll do a little more rock cup. Maybe I'll do Bon
Jovi, yeah, you know, maybe I'll do a little something like that,
and laid more into some guitar stuff. And then by the end of
it, it's like, then they were all rocking. But it's being able
to read something, you know, read the crowd and on the fly on
it, which kind of makes you a little nervous, because it's
like, man, if they're not really into that. Like, man, I'm kind
of on an island here. Nothing bad ever.
What's your go to, but what's your go to? Bon Jovi, one dead
or
alive? I still do.
I just do the I do the intro riff, and then do like a sing
along thing with a course, and then I'll break out into some
acoustic jam. Nice.
Who's the one that
he wrote for the movie Young Guns
blaze of glory. Yeah? Rumor has it, he wrote it in a diner on a
napkin like just came out of it. I love that crazy, yeah,
freaking hit song in five minutes. I know I
remember when computers were coming in. And people started
like typing or using their iPhones to write, you know, song
lyrics, a normal thing now, but it still seemed like it was like
a, you know, you leather bound book and you're not out. You
know what? I mean, this is a song, and it needs to be on
parchment, you know. So for you leather pen, yes.
So for you to write really deep, connecting music that connected
with prisoners at their lowest of low, they're, you know, it's
rock bottom for them, especially at that age, man, I mean, that's
got, you gotta, there's gotta be an old soul aspect to you, I
would think,
I think like there is, yeah, I feel like there is, man,
there's got to be because, I mean, that's you got to have
some life experience to write about deep stuff.
Are your parents did? Were they always supportive? Massively,
they sent you to Belmont, right? You're like, Hey, kid, you got
four years go do the thing. Did you finish? It's almost still
paying for it. Yeah. I mean, that's what is it 60,000 a year?
Whoo? No. Seriously paying for it? Yeah,
I transferred in there. I transferred into bell on my
sophomore year and finished. I was on the road most weekends in
advantage of rented a van, formed a band, which my bass
player is still playing with me today, and who's your bass
player to be on Cody. Gall is his name? What's up, Cody? And
then whatever Cody, I'll tell you what, though, what y'all
have, man, I think any artist and musician goals, what y'all
have, a team and
like minded people, loyalty, 20 years I've been playing with
Jason, 26
years. 26 years. So I feel like as a musician, so
I got these, these look at all these wrinkles that didn't
happen when I was first
started. So much that right there says so much about each of
each of y'all and for a musician, it's like that would
be a massive goal to be in a camp from here, from the bottom,
yeah, and ride it up, collectively, right? And then
same thing for an artist, to have a group of guys and you're
locked in. It's so rare. You guys are, like, the only ones.
It's like, hats off to you. It's all these special everybody's
goal to have
something starts at the top. Jason is an incredibly loyal
person, and he's a incredibly down to earth, grounded person.
He's the same exact guy. When my parents, Patty and Richard come
backstage, he's like, Hi Patty and Richard very respectful. He
asks about my brothers. You guys. Okay, can I get you a
glass of wine? Just a super he's human being. He really is. Yeah,
I've only
been around him a couple times, and he's always been just the
nicest guy and saw the earth just, he's just real man. He
lives.
He's like, actually, when he's talking to you, it's not just
like, you know, an exercise in small talk. I mean, he really
is. He's listening to the people he's talking to. He asks
questions. To ask questions. Yeah. I mean, that's, that was
our encounter when we got when you took us backstage, and we
got to, you know, the kid, when
your son was like, when are we going backstage? Yeah, and is,
where are backstage? There's the band. Yeah, the band
just walked by. Kids have
this perception that it's like, almost like some Valhalla. It's
like things are glistening with gold. It's like, no, it's sweaty
cheese and towels and road cases. Yeah,
so he was wearing a because Jason's kids, I think, went to
the same school my kids went to, and Spencer was wearing a
Chapman's retreat Elementary School shirt. And Jason point he
was like, Where are you guys from? Because we saw them in
Charlotte, and we told him, he's like, Oh yeah, I live over in
Kidron. He told us where he lived and everything. Like,
okay, dude, I know. I mean, he was just really pleasant guy.
We're all spring
hillians. Now it's pretty
cool. Wow. Yeah. So do you see a lot of well, both y'all being
drummers. Do you see more new drummers, new new cats coming to
town nowadays than you did back in the day to do this for a
living.
I think the advent of Instagram and Tiktok and all that stuff
certainly has increased the appeal. I
think Music City is so on fire, and country as a culture is so
on fire. It's just like, this is one of the last cities for the
music business, and like, real people writing songs in a room
at the same time, session musicians all on the floor at
the same time doing the thing. And then, you know, the real
estate prices are going up, and people are getting pushed out to
the burbs and stuff. But that's going to happen with the growth.
I don't mind the growth. I don't mind the growth. I don't mind
that the multicultural input. Because you are getting guys
from Texas, the Miami, Chicago's, Atlanta, New York,
Los Angeles. They are coming in like, oh my god, I could raise I
could raise my kid here. If I work really hard, I can buy a
house. I can have dirt under my feet, you know, there's a little
bit of space, so I don't think it's going to slow down anytime
soon. But as my dad said, you know, you know, must be present
to win, and the cream rises, you know. So just be the cream, you
know. Just Just stay. Just commit until you are the cream.
And it might take 20 minutes to meet somebody at the airport
that changes your lives, or it might take 20 years, but you
just got to be committed to it. And
to your point you were saying earlier, you might have that
lightning in a bottle thing, yeah. I mean, it's, don't, don't
discount that. I mean, you're only how many years in, you
know. So, I mean, you could certainly have that same kind of
an effect. It's, it could certainly play out that way. I
think it will. I mean, you seem like a loyal guy. You seem like
you've got, you've definitely got a charisma and a
vivaciousness and that kind of same appeal where you're
interested in other people, that's a
lot of it. And you love live music, and you're not afraid to
go out there and take the music to the people, and people. And
you're different sounding. You were fascinated with that. You
always were playing on the weekends while you were in
college. I did the same thing. Man, it's like, I'm, you know,
studying for a, you know, a physics test on a Sunday after a
gig, pulling an all nighter, because on Monday morning, at
eight
o'clock, I get it. Yeah, you did
it. Did it
because, I mean, also, you're going to have the element of,
there's a little bit of a homogenization happening with
artists these days. You can't really tell them from one
another. Some of the newer ones, at least, I sound the same,
right? You You're distinct because you got that, you got
that edge to your voice. Read a gargoyle with razor blades, that
kind of thing. So, I mean, you're gonna have, you're gonna
be able to have that distinction that anybody listening to it
comes out. Oh, I know exactly who that is. So that's like part
of the, you know, the Van Halen brothers said, if you play
music, make sure people know it's you. Yeah, you know, I
think that you're gonna have that nipped in the Bucha, I
appreciate. But if you involve a lot, a little, EVH, and you're
playing, I'm just Jim,
just loves that.
I need to learn how to do some of that. I think you should, man
and your label, you know, I
hope that, like, Neil's, like, What the hell did you tell him?
Why? Why did you tell him that? Yeah, blame
it on I haven't been reading the trades. I haven't been listening
to the gossip on the bus. I didn't know that your record
label, stone country records, was Benny Brown's. I
know which you have some history with from the very beginning.
Yeah.
I mean, without Benny Brown, we wouldn't be sitting here, you
know, it, it just wouldn't happen. Wow, he's a, he's a fan
of music. He was a, he's a harbinger of the arts. He
believes. And he gave us chances to Benny gave us chances to
write, to produce, to you know what? I mean, he's a song guy,
too. Thank you, Benny. Yeah, you know, he was trying to make
things happen for quite some time, until, you know, a guy
with a, you know, hat came along named Jason Aldean, and it just
all clicked. He
owned car dealerships, right? Yeah, it was a very successful
car dealership guy, yeah, yeah, good.
You don't bet against Benny, nope. No, no, no, great
guy to have in your corner. So what do you want to promote?
Other than you got these 35 million views, your viral
sensation, you got your big gun. You got the gargling with the
razor blades. You got the work ethic. You got the bass player
has been with you for 10 years. You're in the mix. You got an
amazing team. You got Neil. You
got Pat Patrick. He's got he's got an amazing wife and child
too. Oh, that's great. Yeah,
keep the wheels on. She keeps the wheels on. You got to have a
quarterback. You got to have a quarterback at the house that's
going to take care of things while you're doing the thing.
Yeah? Or
at least hold out. You know how it is, man, it's tough this bit.
I have so much respect for anybody that makes a living on
the road, dude, especially when you have kids. I'll just learn
that now, dude, I'm like, pulling out head now going to
work for the weekend, you know, on the road, yep, you know. And
there's my wife holding our kid, and he's starting to, like, now
he cries, you know? He's, like, putting his hand up, and he's
ball, and it's like, Oh, you want to talk about a weight on a
man, holy shit. You know, we're and that's the job, right? You
know, it's like, There's no way. It doesn't make it any easier,
but you got to go to work, you know? But I have so much
respect. I always have. But then when you have a kid, you know,
it's like, night. Now I really get it. There was it could be a
truck. Sorry, go ahead.
It brings me, makes me remember a story. I mean, this happened
three years ago, when we were getting this business going. We
did a job, a lighting job, which is part of what we do here. J2,
lighting. Check us out. J2, lighting.com, Jim is a process.
We were doing a lighting change out in Cleveland. We were up
there for about eight days. And you know, you kind of get that's
part of my background, to be an electrician and stuff like that.
So I'm up on a lift into my rhythm and everything, trying to
listen to different music. And I'm like, Zach Brown Band kick.
And then, gosh, what's the song? I decided I'm already gonna
dance with my daughter to it at her wedding. Oh, buddy. It's,
it's basically, you know, I hope you see the same. Seven Wonders.
I hope you sail the seven seas, and it's a great song, and I'm
just sitting there, up there, all of a sudden, the lyrics just
start penetrating. I haven't seen my family in four or five
days. At this point, I am a bawling, flipping mess. Oh, man,
it got me hit you like hammer. Oh, totally did. What song does
that for you now, now that you have that family you got, you
got the child. There are songs that I can't sing. Neil's being
one of them. You know, gosh, now I can't think about the one
bouncing curls. There goes my life. There goes my life. What a
song. What an amazing song. And then Kayla's song too, that he
didn't
have to be he didn't actually,
I asked him,
Do you ever get you have to, just like, emotionally, distance
yourself when you sing that song. You have to,
because we couldn't make it through sometimes, right? He was
performing the song at his daughter's graduation or
anything or something like that. Yeah, wow,
yeah. Well, I haven't written one for river yet, um, but I
will. Somebody said, Thank you. When we were talking about songs
on this next project that we're working on, he wasn't born yet.
So I said, man, you gotta have a song about river. And I was
like, right, but he's not, you know? Yeah, he wasn't here yet.
I was like, not yet. Not yet. I want to wait for them for the
right time. How many kids you have? Jim, three. Three kids.
Yeah, wow,
yeah, nice buddy. Ah, guys, I'm jealous, you know, you get to
experience things, you know that. But you know,
I love the fact that Ben was like, kind of overtaking the
interview for a second. He was like, taking host, asking you
questions. Is there anything you wanted to ask me by chance? I
mean, no,
that's crazy. So anything else you want to, like, tell Man,
y'all the world for all
time, yeah, well, we put an EP out
in May, and we put a music video out to the song bullet, which
gets a little intense, nice.
But that song changed meaning for you. Didn't it? It did,
and that's that would be the answer to your question.
Actually, of any songs, it has a different meaning. Now, the
song's called bullet. The hook is, I would take a bullet for
you, you know, literally, but also metaphorically. I would do
it's loving somebody so much you would do anything at all for
him. And so that video gets pretty intense, man. And so
that's part of the EP that came out of May, and we're in the
studio now. That's it's going to round the these next six are
going to round out the record that will come out in the fall,
nice and then touring between now and then most weekends. And
that's, that's where we're at. Man killer, really good stuff.
Are you out there opening for some it's a mix. Yeah, it's
headlines, smaller clubs, and we're out with Brantley, out
with Gary the box next weekend.
Nice. Yeah, so Gary the box, are the flats?
Gary the box, not the flats?
Voice over for Gary's last tour, to promote his last tour. And
Jim coach, are you serious, yeah? Gary levox, yeah. So you
know, occasionally I will do some voiceover. Ghost you Yep.
Jim is a voiceover man,
because you came from radio. Yeah, don't, don't hold it
against me. Do you miss it? Do you miss any of that? No,
because I do it anyway with podcasting. Podcasting,
it's radio, yeah, this is radio 2.0 it just pays way
better. It is crazy. So can't complain
with that. Jim, no,
it's, it's my superpower. This is what I do, and voiceover is
part of that.
So, yeah, no, we are. We're all multipreneurs, as they say
nowadays. Have to be. Yeah, I hope to see a show. Hey, man, I
hope you. I hope things explode to the point where you're out on
the road with us. Man, that would be a dream, right there
and there. There might be a day we'll open for you no man, or a
big double bill or something. Man, but I'm just so blown away
by your spirit, your work ethic, your great voice. We had a good
time playing that song. We were just doing like a sound check to
make sure we were comfortable with levels. I
don't know that's up to y'all, but, man, you're the one that's
holding it
down. I mean, it was really fun. I mean, you're a machine. The
chart was correct, ladies and gentlemen, I care so I did a
chart. There's stomp right there. Anybody wants to know how
to do the chart that way you can just jump on stage with
you know, man, if there were only just a course there is show
me,
Jim is going to film my music, reading and charting. Course
we're going to do it. We're going to film it before the end
of the year. But right now I'm getting into the heaviest part
of my year, the touring season. And, you know, I'm gone
Wednesday through Sunday, so when I'm in town, Monday through
Tuesday. Just occasionally you need to, like, not do something,
yeah, but usually we end up doing something anyways. You
know, can't shut it down. Man, no. Machine. That's a busting
and a curse. But is it usually not an off switch in our worlds?
Nope. And it
never retires purpose. That's if you, when you the day you lose
that off switch that I don't know why I'm getting out of bed.
That's a bad day. Yeah, there really is a bad day. Yeah, I
don't want that ever to happen.
And I was, you know what? I was just up at in there's this great
then it's the number one music education site in the world. Now
it's called Muse Zora, muzora.com and they, huh, they
have a website where they teach guitar, bass, keyboards, vocals.
And then the drum Parson portion of it's called drumeo. So
drumeo.com drumeo has been there forever and ever, and it's
outside of Vancouver, and it was amazing. I just get to give
props, and thanks to everybody you know. Jared Falk started
this company a long time ago, his friend Brandon Aaron, they
had me in. We filmed all this content for their website, for
their socials, and then we did a bunch of educational content for
like, their training portion, but it is just people are
learning music online now. It's an incredible and eventually
they probably love to have you up there to perform your songs,
to do like a little mini master class. Or they'll have a guy
that'll interview you, like, show me. Or, you know, I mean,
you break it down for the kids and it'll be all written out.
They fly you up there. They spoil you. They put you in a
nice hotel. It's great. I just had an amazing time, but I see
that they would love to have
you. That'd be awesome. You. Zora.com I gotta check it out.
Yeah, that's really cool, man. It's such an honor to be on here
with y'all. Big time. Likewise, seriously, dude,
yeah, thank you for spending this time with us, everybody.
Jim.com Yeah,
Ben gallagher.com. But not
Gallagher. Ben gallagher.com he's huge on the socials support
his music. We just played stomp 2,302,100 streams. And then we
got to catch bullet. Bullets. We just, we got to get it up there.
It's, it's new. It's brand new. So everybody stream bullet
request,
yes, I love it. It's going going for ads. So fun. Thanks
for suggesting this, young man, come on our show. Yeah, buddy,
the honor is mine. Fellas, keep doing and keep changing lives,
Man, y'all too. We're just it's great to know you, man. Thanks
for coming on the show, Jim, thanks for your time and talent,
course, and to everybody out there in listener land. We'll
see you July 19 and 20th at the Musik city drum show. Monday,
July 21 we'll see. I'm doing a drum clinic. 6pm drumsupply.com.
Be sure to subscribe, share rate and review to help people find
the show. We appreciate you. Thanks. Ben, thanks, Jim. See
you guys.
This has been the rich Redmond show. Subscribe, rate and follow
along at rich redmond.com, forward slash podcasts. You.