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Welcome to The Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I am Hamish, your host.

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This podcast is for anyone going through awakenings, trying to make sense of life.

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Whether dark nights are the soul, needing to make life -changing decisions, struggling
with addiction or critical illness, or simply realizing that their life as they know it is

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not aligned to values and purpose.

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You are not alone.

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You can get through this, promise you.

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Life is far more beautiful on the other side.

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Hi everybody.

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And welcome to another edition of the Crucible, Conversations for the Curious.

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I'm here today with Pavli and she's come all the way from South Africa to join us.

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Pavli, thanks for turning up today.

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Please tell us a little bit about you and who you

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Hi, Hamish.

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Thank you so much for having me for this beautiful podcast.

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I love the work that you are doing and the motivation that you are sending out there into
the world.

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So I really love it.

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So as you mentioned, my name is Pavli and yes, I currently live in South Africa in
Johannesburg, but I come all the way from Europe, from a little country, the heart of

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Europe, the Czech Republic.

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And yes, I guess I have been here for 14 years now, which

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kind of doesn't seem real, but I am a holistic healer, which entails working with
spirituality, working with Reiki, lot of trauma counseling, a of deep, deep profound

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healing for clients.

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So in a nutshell, that is who I am.

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How did you get into that state?

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mean, what was your awakening that made you make sense of your identity, who you are and
what you do,

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So I think the main awakening would come when I was married.

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So I moved straight after school.

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I moved into England wanting to learn the language.

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there I met after a couple of years, I met my ex -husband and with him I moved to South
Africa Johannesburg.

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you know, I think growing up there was a lot of

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emotional unawareness in my family, as a lot of people on my generation will agree with,
our parents weren't really equipped.

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wasn't internet, know, there wasn't psychologists, weren't so refined, know, information
wasn't available readily.

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And so emotions wasn't really something that was discussed very often in family
environment.

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I was quite an emotional child.

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I saw things differently, I guess.

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I had different ideas.

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You know, I had a lot of invisible friends, if you can call them that now.

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I understand that those were probably spirits, my guides, know, energies that I could pick
up around me.

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And the questions that I was interested in were deeper than the ones of my peers, I guess.

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So I was a little

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challenging and therefore I felt quite a bit of like an outsider if I can call it that and
never really fit it in.

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So I spent most of my childhood on my own doing walks for hours and hours in the
afternoons through nature, through woods and that's really where I grew up.

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And I think when I moved to England I started to get out of my shell a little bit but I
still didn't quite know who I was.

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There was a lot of people pleasing

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that happened when I was small, I was growing up, you know, I had quite a small self
-esteem, although to the world out there, I was the most empowered and self -aware person,

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you know, as we do, we keep having these masks that we keep taking on, depending on who
we're meeting.

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And I think for me, you know, the biggest thing was when I started to realize that in the
marriage, I started to feel

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almost like nothing that I would do would be good enough and nothing would result in what
I really wanted, which was just for someone to see me, I guess, the way I was.

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And I could never really understand who I was inside because I wasn't allowed to look
within.

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You know, I wasn't allowed to explore who I was, what I wanted, what I enjoyed, what I
didn't like.

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And so I started to feel

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more and more alone, even in the marriage.

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And, you know, there was quite a lot of abuse while I was growing up, you know, be it from
the family, be it from my friends, be it from men or boys later on in stage.

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And and I didn't quite know that it was abuse, because I think a lot of the times we also
have this misperception that abuse is something severe.

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where you have to end up in a hospital in order for it to be granted the name of an abuse.

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And what happened when I had my little girl, I almost instantly had, I think the first
part of my awakening, where all of a sudden, and I do believe that this is for all the

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women out there or most of us, is when you have, especially a girl,

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you become almost like the person that needs to protect her, know, the protector, the
warrior, the one that all of a sudden sees all the enemies out there or potential enemies

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out there.

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And you start seeing your role as someone that needs to be a little bit more level, needs
to have the self -empowerment that you need in order for you to set up boundaries with

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people around you.

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It was just a few days after my daughter was born when I realized that I have no
boundaries whatsoever.

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And if I do try to put any boundaries up there, it's ignored, even laughed at, if that
makes sense.

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And so I started to ask my questions, you know, like, what do I want?

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Is this what I want?

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Is this what makes me feel good inside?

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And those deeper questions about the soul being.

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You know, not just how you're feeling on a day to day basis, but how you're really feeling
inside.

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And I think that is such a profound period for any awakening that is happening to anyone
out there.

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Because it's those really soul searching deep questions that we start asking ourselves.

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That is no longer about how do I feel about so and so, and how did this person made me
feel?

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It's more about how do I feel inside about

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my situation about who I am in this lifetime.

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Is this all I am?

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Is this all there is for me?

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Can I do more?

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And I started what we call a therapy, even though my therapist, was extremely lucky
because she was a spiritual being as well.

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And she was very, very aware.

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And so she became my spiritual master more than a therapist.

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And we spent three and a half years together in a really deep, profound therapy.

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And, you know, I find it fascinating and I see it lot in my sessions these days as well
with my clients is that no matter what you're dealing with right now in this moment, the

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question always has to be what happened before.

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You know, what is

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experience that you're going through right now.

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What is this situation?

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What is this pain?

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What is this experience?

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Where is it taking you to in the past?

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What have you not resolved?

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What is paining?

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What is what is still hidden underneath all the layers that we put on it so that it never
awakens?

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And when she started asking me these questions, we did a lot of deep trauma healing for my
past, for my childhood, especially.

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And I had many realizations that I didn't really understand before that.

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And, you know, there was a lot of emotions that I had to then go through.

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And I think being connected with your emotions is, I believe, another part of awakening
process, because you have to almost acknowledge all the emotions and you have to integrate

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with them all.

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whether they are nice, whether they don't feel nice, whether they feel dark, whether they
are amazing and approved by everyone around you.

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And I think finding the emotions that you don't necessarily like so much is the key to
awakening of any kind because you have to acknowledge even those parts of you.

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And through the period of the counseling with her,

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I really started to ask the deep questions as to who am I, what am I doing here?

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Is this it?

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You know, what brings me joy inside of me?

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And slowly but surely I started to realize that it wasn't my marriage, unfortunately.

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And that the person that I had to be in order for my ex -family to love me and accept

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was not really who I was inside.

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And I started hating the mask.

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I know it's a very strong word, but I really started to feel like I was playing games,
almost like I was betraying the people around me.

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And eventually it came to the point where I couldn't do it anymore.

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And, you know, my ex -husband wasn't really interested

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marriage counseling, wasn't ready for any kind of change at that point, which is obviously
okay.

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He's on his own journey.

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But for me, the marriage and what it brought to me and what I had to learn about myself in
the marriage came to the end.

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And I think that for me,

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I'm trying to think because I had had something that I wanted to say now.

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And all of a sudden it was like, but that's not really the truth, is it?

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So, you know, I wanted to say that the fact that I was able to move away from him was what
felt like the proper awakening.

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But I actually think that it was the times that I was alone all of a sudden.

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And it was in those moments where I had to dig deeper into my identity.

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And I realized that I completely

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lost my identity.

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I don't even know if I ever had it.

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I I moved out from my ex -husband when I was 33 and I actually don't think that I ever
knew who I was because especially for people please us out there, we have to be whatever

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our surroundings want us to be in order for us to feel accepted.

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we will never really ask the questions who am I in this situation or who do I want to be
in this situation because that doesn't quite tie up with the people around us.

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And so at the age of 33, I started to dive deeper into my own identity and who I was and
what my purpose was.

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And because by that time I learned so much about relationships, so much about abuse and
the different types of abuse and

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A lot of techniques were taught to me with regards to how to cope with it.

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And I felt, you know, I've got all this knowledge now.

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What am I going to do with it?

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And I really wanted to share it with people, with women, more likely.

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And and I started a support group for women in 2015.

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And that is kind of what brought me into being the healer that I am now.

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is the experiences that I had with these women where they would come and we would have
coffee together and, you know, in a group or individually, it didn't really matter.

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was whoever came, came.

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And it's always funny how the process takes its own course, no matter what we do.

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And I find that very often we come in with some sort of prerequisite, with some sort of
prejudice.

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You know, we want it to look like this.

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We want it to be like

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And, you know, I remember the times when I would have 21 women responding that they're
going to join me for this one morning of four hours of sharing.

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And I would be absolutely paranoid because I'll be like, oh my God, how am going to help
21 women?

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You know, like, oh, like, what am I going to do?

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Everybody's going to have like two minutes slot and you look up there and you find two
women sitting in me.

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And it's that mixture of the disappointment with

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already then, which I didn't know at that point that I was downloading messages, intuitive
messages, and already that inner knowing of, so today I'm supposed to work with just the

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two of you, which is, OK, well, let's do it.

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And the work would be so deep.

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But I think we have so much of prejudice within us and so much of fear and judgment
towards ourselves that we

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We need things to look certain way for us to feel that they are OK.

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And and I think part of awakening is 100 percent to work with those as well, because those
are the judgments that very often stop us from really reaching the full potential that we

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can in this lifetime.

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So, you know, I started having incredible results with these women, not really
understanding what I was doing.

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And eventually.

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Some of them would be interested in seeing me individually and I grew with them as they
grew, I grew as a healer and pretty much they made me to tap into my own resources of

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knowledge that I have.

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I have had a couple of instances of going into my own past life and in those I was a
healer already then.

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So,

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literally in this lifetime just stepping into that experience and tapping into the
knowledge that I have.

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And, you know, the clients just kind of navigate the the whole journey, I guess, of who I
am today and what I'm bringing to the world.

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I love that.

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love you've mapped your journey.

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You've looked back at it and you've made sense of it.

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And I think that just shows a level of awareness.

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I want to tap back to the mother who suddenly realized that she was the warrior because
all throughout that conversation, I have just been told, ask about the warrior.

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So tell me who this wounded warrior is that you've become.

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Yeah, that's such a beautiful question.

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Wow.

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So, you know, I think there is two sides to a warrior.

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I think there is the side that goes to the forefront and fights and really shows the enemy
who the boss is and goes all in and doesn't care about any wounds or what will happen

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thereafter.

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And it's the fearlessness of the warrior that then pushes the warrior forward.

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And then there is the more subtle side that sees what is happening and can kind of see the
potential of there might be a danger or that might be a little bit difficult to deal with.

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You know, this might cause an argument or this might cause a low vibrational energies.

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And the warrior is then able to go and tap into their own strength and realize I can
handle this or I can't.

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And therefore I'm going to leave

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And I think at that point at the age of 33, I had no idea about the subtle warrior.

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So if you looked at me then and I would hope now, even though please don't ask my family
because I think the idea would be very different.

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But you know, it's those closer to us, right?

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But I would hope that by now I've learned to utilize both warriors almost simultaneously,
if that makes sense.

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But at the age of 33,

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I was the forefront one.

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I was the one that wanted to fight about everything and wanted to prove the point and
wanted to show how certain behavior hurts.

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And, and it's that force that very often is met with ignorance from people and rejection
because they don't really know how to deal with such force.

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And, you know, for me, what that looked like is that

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kept being isolated more and more in my marriage.

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And because of the isolation, I started to isolate myself as a friend as well, because I
didn't know who I was.

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I didn't know that I was right in the way that I was feeling because I felt very rejected
by the people around me.

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And the one important thing that I

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Every woman realizes that has children in this lifetime, any kind of children, can be fur
babies because not everybody is blessed with human babies, but anyone we feel really

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connected to as a provider, as a protector.

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There is a moment in which your life ceases to exist or not exist, but ceases to be
important.

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And the importance is put onto the child that you all of a sudden

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that cannot do life without you.

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And because I had so much of awareness of, or maybe less awareness, but more feeling about
the pain that I've endured in my life, I just wanted to protect my daughter from the pain.

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You know, I wanted her to not cry.

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I wanted her to be happy all the time.

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And the more she would cry, the more I would become the forefront warrior that would fight
everyone.

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And I had to really learn to work with that, you know, because in order for people to
listen, have to we have to let go of the forcefulness, of the need to be recognized.

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And, you know, we just have to calm down a little bit and take a deep breath and then
almost allow the situation rather than force it, if that makes sense.

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I don't know if that answered your question.

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It absolutely makes sense.

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that letting it go.

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I'm talking to myself here, Hamish, that let you go is a really good idea because trying
to squeeze it all together gives you a bad back, makes it irritable, makes you snap at

203
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people.

204
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Yeah, I love that answer.

205
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And it is you are the protector.

206
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Absolutely.

207
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I haven't had kids, so I don't have that experience.

208
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But the conversations I've had, this little thing will die unless you feed it and love it.

209
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And, you know, that is the narrative I hear time and time again.

210
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You have to and again, my brother, he would put his life down for his kids, my sister, the
same thing, you the same thing.

211
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That doesn't compute in my head because I haven't had the children this lifetime, but it's
it's quite remarkable that Nurture that's that requirement to do that and also you've I

212
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get this sense you've looked at your Your upbringing and you've said no, no, no, no You've
drawn a boundary and said none of those things that happened to me.

213
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Am I going to share with my daughter?

214
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So you've you're changing her story aren't you which is?

215
00:20:42,299 --> 00:20:43,660
remarkable

216
00:20:43,878 --> 00:20:47,440
And I think that's again, another part of awakening.

217
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You know, when we go through the awakening, you can't once you've entered the door, you
cannot just say, well, now it's a little bit difficult and I don't really like what is

218
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happening to me and I don't really like the changes that I'm seeing in me and the people
around me.

219
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And, know, I have to shed these relationships that are not quite good for me.

220
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I don't like it.

221
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I'm going to go back and I'm going to close the door.

222
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Doesn't exist.

223
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And.

224
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I also, what I found is the journey never ends.

225
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And I don't want to scare the listeners away, but that is definitely not the purpose of
the call here.

226
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But the journey really never ends.

227
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You know, the journey is continuous.

228
00:21:25,123 --> 00:21:28,675
And yes, there are moments where we feel, hey, this is cool.

229
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Like it's a little break.

230
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Like it feels easier now.

231
00:21:31,786 --> 00:21:38,129
And I've learned in life because I've been on this deep awakening journey now for nine
years.

232
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Yeah, about nine.

233
00:21:39,690 --> 00:21:52,107
And I've realized that whenever it's the quiet moments, I don't get excited anymore
because I know that what is coming is the biggest storm that I've ever been through.

234
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And I'm like, no, it's nice and quiet.

235
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What is coming?

236
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So it really is a never ending experience.

237
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And you know, when we are in that space, it's almost our duty.

238
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to then take that experience and almost bring it down onto people that are with us.

239
00:22:18,757 --> 00:22:23,400
So our family, our children, so that they can start their...

240
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:32,866
So for example, if I started my awakening from here, I now, I feel that it's my duty and
people might disagree with that.

241
00:22:32,866 --> 00:22:38,570
But my duty is to make sure that my daughter's awakening starts up here because she should

242
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the work with me before she awakens that I couldn't do when I was little because I didn't
have the aware parents.

243
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didn't have the emotional skills that I have now to communicate emotions with her, to
explain things with regards to energies, you know, how her body responds to different

244
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challenges in life and what she can do about it.

245
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We didn't have that or I didn't have that.

246
00:23:03,864 --> 00:23:06,851
And I know many people of my generation, we

247
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weren't taught the skills of how to release trauma or if a friend was rude to us.

248
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Whereas these days, a lot of kids have that now.

249
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So I believe that the awakening is happening in such different level now that people
really don't know how to deal with it.

250
00:23:25,438 --> 00:23:33,321
You know, there is almost a sense of newborn children all come with their own

251
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systems and abilities to deal with the situations that they put through you far more than
we were born with.

252
00:23:45,281 --> 00:23:47,764
Okay, that's interesting, isn't it?

253
00:23:48,006 --> 00:23:57,121
So is that where there's more of a bias to, let's get this right, authenticity over
attachment?

254
00:23:57,569 --> 00:23:58,869
100%.

255
00:23:58,869 --> 00:24:00,009
100%.

256
00:24:00,009 --> 00:24:14,929
And also if you look at what children are doing and what they are interested in and how
they are operating, every generation, so if I take every 10 years where children are born,

257
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they born completely different, with different skills, with different abilities, with
different outlook on the world and what world means to them, than what the generation

258
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before that was.

259
00:24:27,282 --> 00:24:29,144
So we are like super behind now.

260
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Like we are the monkey's age.

261
00:24:32,657 --> 00:24:43,215
So and I find that a lot of people that are going through this and are not necessarily
awakened struggle with that concept because they don't understand the children because the

262
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children are so far more advanced than they can ever comprehend that it's just difficult
and the gap between the parents and the children becomes so big because they just are

263
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born awakened almost already.

264
00:24:59,690 --> 00:25:07,717
And unless the parents are doing the work, they kind of can't really communicate with each
other properly and they can't

265
00:25:07,717 --> 00:25:09,067
That's tragic, isn't it?

266
00:25:09,067 --> 00:25:12,599
That's really, a really, really interesting observation.

267
00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:14,769
Yeah.

268
00:25:15,729 --> 00:25:18,661
So how do you, how do you help people?

269
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How do you help women make sense of that?

270
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And then hopefully them help their spouses make sense of that.

271
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How do you, you bring, there's the child.

272
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How do you bring the families up to their level?

273
00:25:29,094 --> 00:25:31,680
I mean, obviously this is a part of your skillset, isn't it?

274
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Yes.

275
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So I work with everyone.

276
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So I work with men, I work with women, children, grandmothers, grandfathers, do the whole
lot.

277
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Because it is so important, you know, if you need help, doesn't really matter who you are.

278
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And it shouldn't matter.

279
00:25:52,738 --> 00:25:59,881
There is always one person that is awakened a little bit more in a couple, because there
has to be that pull a little bit.

280
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So if you have both awakened, I find that it kind of can become, you know, the
relationship will be completely on another level and then you do work on a different

281
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scale.

282
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But for a normal relationship, there is always one person that is a little bit more aware
than the other so that they can almost guide as to what needs to happen, how it's

283
00:26:22,126 --> 00:26:26,468
affecting, you know, just to bring a little bit more awareness into the relationship.

284
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And what I find is

285
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A lot of the times, because I'm able to do life coaching, mindset shifting through talking
and communicating with my clients, as well as then tap into the energies and then into

286
00:26:42,826 --> 00:26:54,463
their bodies and heal the traumas, heal the old belief system, heal their own prejudgments
that they hold within themselves.

287
00:26:55,445 --> 00:26:57,896
Then you will find that very often

288
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The healing is much more faster and it's on much deeper level because you are able to then
release it from every part of the person, of the being, you know, which is then the mind.

289
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It is the body.

290
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It is the spirit.

291
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We have to deal with all of it in order for for anything to be released properly, you
know, so that it doesn't have to come back.

292
00:27:20,043 --> 00:27:26,585
And what I find is very often is that I teach a of parents

293
00:27:26,895 --> 00:27:31,106
skills that they can then transfer onto their children.

294
00:27:31,186 --> 00:27:41,469
So because a lot of the time parents now that are awakening are not necessarily equipped
to be able to help the children navigate their emotions.

295
00:27:41,629 --> 00:27:47,351
And that's part of what I do is I help them understand their own emotions.

296
00:27:47,351 --> 00:27:56,273
And through that, I then teach them skills on how to transfer that awareness into their
children so that they don't have to deal with the things that we had to deal with.

297
00:27:57,149 --> 00:28:01,752
curious about your phrase, awakenings, when people are awakening.

298
00:28:01,752 --> 00:28:05,116
What is your understanding of when somebody is awakening?

299
00:28:05,116 --> 00:28:08,039
So there is a couple of aspects to it.

300
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:22,162
And I would say that the main thing for me, the main indicator for me that somebody might
be going through an awakening is when all the old pain starts coming up to the surface for

301
00:28:22,162 --> 00:28:31,560
whatever reason, whether there is traumatic experience that they had now that is causing
all the trauma from the past to come back.

302
00:28:31,836 --> 00:28:35,669
to their lives so they can feel it and they have nowhere to hide.

303
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:46,308
I find that very often that pain then becomes so overpowering that they come to me not
because they want to or because they've heard of me and they're like, well, let me go and

304
00:28:46,308 --> 00:28:47,690
see Pavli.

305
00:28:47,690 --> 00:28:54,715
They come to me because they're in absolute despair because the pain just becomes over
consuming.

306
00:28:56,537 --> 00:29:00,320
I find that, you know, and my clients, well,

307
00:29:00,368 --> 00:29:07,450
I want to say my clients laugh at that, actually if you see their faces, they look
horrified when I say that.

308
00:29:08,410 --> 00:29:17,213
going through this myself, I am able to use a lot of my own experiences in my sessions,
which I think is the best way to do it anyway.

309
00:29:18,913 --> 00:29:29,224
And so when my clients are hurting and that pain that I'm speaking about is really, really
severe, I tell them, well, this is exactly where I need you to be.

310
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And they go, huh?

311
00:29:30,464 --> 00:29:31,564
But I thought you are a healer.

312
00:29:31,564 --> 00:29:32,764
I you like here to help me.

313
00:29:32,764 --> 00:29:34,384
And I'm like, well, yes.

314
00:29:34,404 --> 00:29:42,504
But unless you feel this pain through every fiber of your body, every molecule, every cell
in your body, and we have 37 trillion cells.

315
00:29:42,504 --> 00:29:44,064
That's a lot of cells.

316
00:29:44,204 --> 00:29:54,684
And every cell has to feel this level of profound pain where you literally feel like you
are being burned to nothing.

317
00:29:55,644 --> 00:29:57,984
Then I often say.

318
00:29:58,108 --> 00:30:01,790
And that is exactly my job to burn you to nothing.

319
00:30:02,231 --> 00:30:07,373
So that when you're there and there is nothing left of the old you.

320
00:30:08,294 --> 00:30:14,758
We built you up and we built you up to who you need to be in this lifetime.

321
00:30:15,258 --> 00:30:25,224
Who what what values and and beautiful things you are bringing into this world, because
all of a sudden, when the pain leaves.

322
00:30:25,446 --> 00:30:28,338
you start seeing yourself in a different light.

323
00:30:28,338 --> 00:30:33,722
And that's the most incredible experience ever.

324
00:30:33,722 --> 00:30:49,073
You know, it's such a satisfying feeling when you see someone lying in despair on the
floor and all of a sudden start standing up and walking again because they know they can.

325
00:30:49,094 --> 00:30:52,115
Not because someone told them, not because I'm holding their hands.

326
00:30:52,914 --> 00:30:58,215
but because they're learning skills important for them to be able to do that for
themselves.

327
00:31:01,612 --> 00:31:08,514
I think that is the most profound explanation of an awakening.

328
00:31:08,514 --> 00:31:09,154
I love that.

329
00:31:09,154 --> 00:31:12,655
It is when every single cell screams, need help.

330
00:31:12,655 --> 00:31:14,435
I can't do this anymore.

331
00:31:16,236 --> 00:31:28,139
And I guess everything else is all the nonsense, all the fear, all the pain, all the
everything is reduced less than that pain.

332
00:31:28,139 --> 00:31:30,330
And at that stage, it's I want to get fixed.

333
00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:31,416
I want help.

334
00:31:31,416 --> 00:31:40,358
rather than all these addictions, all these fears, all these stories are all piling up and
it's just gone, and you want to change.

335
00:31:41,649 --> 00:31:47,252
It's almost, you know, at that point, Hamish, it feels like you really have no choice.

336
00:31:48,093 --> 00:31:50,195
You know, because your soul has decided.

337
00:31:50,195 --> 00:31:54,328
Remember, our soul designs everything before we born, right?

338
00:31:54,328 --> 00:31:55,838
That's my belief.

339
00:31:56,199 --> 00:31:59,902
People might believe in different things, but that is what I resonate with.

340
00:31:59,902 --> 00:32:03,504
And so the soul knows the moment.

341
00:32:03,504 --> 00:32:09,308
We don't know as humans because we have, you know, all the things that we go through and
we have ego

342
00:32:09,532 --> 00:32:13,315
We have this joy and this rubbish lifestyle that we enjoy.

343
00:32:13,315 --> 00:32:16,277
So we're carrying on being in this like a bubble.

344
00:32:16,277 --> 00:32:23,673
But the soul knows the precise moment in which it is ready to awaken to be this grand
thing.

345
00:32:23,673 --> 00:32:25,704
Okay.

346
00:32:25,744 --> 00:32:39,024
And so I think in that moment, you really have no choice as a human being because your
soul has decided that this is the moment in which all of the rubbish is going to be shed.

347
00:32:39,024 --> 00:32:44,947
and the beauty of the the true essence of you will come to the light.

348
00:32:45,748 --> 00:32:49,991
And I think it's the most beautiful, beautiful space to be in.

349
00:32:49,991 --> 00:32:52,031
And it happens in different times.

350
00:32:52,292 --> 00:32:55,293
You know, people experience it in different ages.

351
00:32:55,754 --> 00:32:58,015
They experience in different stages as well.

352
00:32:58,015 --> 00:33:04,179
But one fundamental part of awakening that I also want to mention is the shedding of ego.

353
00:33:04,179 --> 00:33:05,880
And I know the Internet

354
00:33:06,048 --> 00:33:07,329
saturated with it.

355
00:33:07,329 --> 00:33:08,810
It's like it's everywhere.

356
00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:12,813
Everybody's talking about ego and you you must let go of your ego.

357
00:33:12,813 --> 00:33:16,154
And many of my clients will be like, well, what does that mean?

358
00:33:16,495 --> 00:33:21,278
And I'm like, well, that voice inside that has just asked that question, that is it.

359
00:33:21,298 --> 00:33:24,240
You know, that is what you need to let go of because you know the answer.

360
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,942
You don't need anybody to confirm anything for you.

361
00:33:26,942 --> 00:33:36,048
You know, but the voice inside that tries to sway us from the awakening journey to keep us
entrapped in the 3D dimension.

362
00:33:37,109 --> 00:33:44,535
plays the different, I want to say almost like dramas on us, you know, where we get
entangled into these dramas.

363
00:33:44,535 --> 00:33:54,924
And if you've noticed, lot of it is fear based because that's where people are most
manipulative, you know, is when you are fearing something, then you must quickly do X, Y

364
00:33:54,924 --> 00:33:58,667
and Z in order for the event go away.

365
00:33:58,667 --> 00:33:59,668
Right.

366
00:33:59,668 --> 00:34:02,670
And and I find that a lot of the times

367
00:34:05,042 --> 00:34:10,354
people come to awakening and it might feel like an accident.

368
00:34:11,015 --> 00:34:14,576
Like they come and they're like, you know, what has just happened?

369
00:34:14,576 --> 00:34:17,157
my gosh, like, I don't want to do this.

370
00:34:17,157 --> 00:34:31,903
But if you then take them back, sometimes few years, you know, sometimes few months, there
are signs, there are subtle signs, but you start having that little bit of a inner voice

371
00:34:31,903 --> 00:34:33,624
in your tummy telling you,

372
00:34:34,248 --> 00:34:38,848
I don't know about this person anymore and I really don't want to go to this party
anymore.

373
00:34:38,848 --> 00:34:43,668
feel like, ugh, you know, I used to love it for 30 years and all of a sudden now I don't
like it.

374
00:34:43,668 --> 00:34:48,908
And it's these subtle moments where the soul is already telling us this is not your way.

375
00:34:48,908 --> 00:34:50,827
You need to change the direction.

376
00:34:51,248 --> 00:34:55,688
And when we're not listening, I call them the little matches from the universe.

377
00:34:55,808 --> 00:35:01,428
And when we're not listening, then the universe gives us, you're a big match.

378
00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:04,684
that throws us completely off balance.

379
00:35:05,346 --> 00:35:08,611
So that's generally what I say.

380
00:35:08,753 --> 00:35:10,414
I love that and I love the way it gets down.

381
00:35:10,414 --> 00:35:11,956
You get less and less choices.

382
00:35:11,956 --> 00:35:13,507
I still think you have two choices.

383
00:35:13,507 --> 00:35:15,578
I think you always have choice.

384
00:35:15,578 --> 00:35:25,945
You either can stay in that pain and that suffering, or you can make that change or you
can go, I want to change.

385
00:35:25,945 --> 00:35:36,673
That's the only thing that from my experience was because when I was on my slope, when I
was drinking, I always had a choice to carry on, to crash my car,

386
00:35:36,823 --> 00:35:40,636
kill myself to whatever but I chose life.

387
00:35:42,778 --> 00:35:54,748
that was my experience of it but the rest of it is absolutely and I do look back and think
you know that I didn't want to do that anymore I was doing that for people pleasing I was

388
00:35:54,748 --> 00:36:06,067
that for people pleasing I was manipulating and it's a painful business looking back
because you're looking back at stuff and going I was horrible

389
00:36:07,678 --> 00:36:08,829
I was really horrible.

390
00:36:08,829 --> 00:36:09,659
I was unkind.

391
00:36:09,659 --> 00:36:10,740
was lying.

392
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:13,171
was keeping myself safe, as you said.

393
00:36:13,171 --> 00:36:14,652
I was keeping myself safe.

394
00:36:14,652 --> 00:36:17,904
was protecting myself from that fear.

395
00:36:19,846 --> 00:36:27,391
So I love the way that you carry your, you help them with their awareness and just say,
is, you know, just, they narrate the story, don't you?

396
00:36:27,391 --> 00:36:30,833
You're holding them, holding the space for them to narrate that story.

397
00:36:30,845 --> 00:36:31,725
Yeah.

398
00:36:31,986 --> 00:36:44,033
And and, know, also another part of this journey is to start loving the Hamish that was
doing all those things, you know, that was drinking, that was crashing the car, that was

399
00:36:44,033 --> 00:36:48,447
lying, because that is still part of you.

400
00:36:48,447 --> 00:36:52,210
And, you know, I my shadow is my anger.

401
00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:55,772
And we've got an intergenerational anger as well on top of that.

402
00:36:55,772 --> 00:36:56,923
So it's fun.

403
00:36:59,428 --> 00:37:09,712
And I had to learn over the years to acknowledge it, but most importantly to love it.

404
00:37:09,712 --> 00:37:15,034
And when I say to people, you have to love that about you and they go, not a chance.

405
00:37:15,034 --> 00:37:16,375
Like I'm never gonna love it.

406
00:37:16,375 --> 00:37:18,175
I want it out of my life.

407
00:37:18,556 --> 00:37:27,329
And only when you come to peace with all of you, everything about you, because it's not

408
00:37:27,329 --> 00:37:29,300
anger that is important.

409
00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:31,501
It's what you do with the anger.

410
00:37:31,802 --> 00:37:36,684
So my daughter laughs very often because you can read in my face.

411
00:37:36,684 --> 00:37:38,786
Like, I mean, I still haven't mastered that.

412
00:37:38,786 --> 00:37:39,296
I don't know.

413
00:37:39,296 --> 00:37:44,169
I think I might need some other teacher to teach me how to master.

414
00:37:44,169 --> 00:37:49,391
So nobody knows what I'm feeling because you will know immediately as I walk into the
room, you know exactly.

415
00:37:49,952 --> 00:37:53,384
And she always laughs at me because then I can see the little looks.

416
00:37:53,384 --> 00:37:55,725
Kids are so intuitive.

417
00:37:56,063 --> 00:38:04,216
And I'll say something or I'll walk into the room and I see those little eyes in the
corner of my eyes watching me carefully studying.

418
00:38:04,216 --> 00:38:05,357
Is mom angry?

419
00:38:05,357 --> 00:38:07,267
You know what's going on?

420
00:38:07,267 --> 00:38:18,272
And because I don't react to the anger anymore, I'm in it and you can feel it, but I'm OK
with it because I don't give it the power that it wants from me.

421
00:38:18,272 --> 00:38:24,053
And I think it's it's allowing you to be in the spaces that don't feel nice.

422
00:38:24,114 --> 00:38:25,094
I think

423
00:38:25,210 --> 00:38:31,510
absolutely vital part of any awakening on any level of awakening actually I would even

424
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:32,310
Yep.

425
00:38:32,691 --> 00:38:33,331
Absolutely.

426
00:38:33,331 --> 00:38:37,743
that is one of the things I didn't have growing up.

427
00:38:37,743 --> 00:38:42,064
mean, most of you said most of our generation, strong emotions were not tolerated.

428
00:38:42,064 --> 00:38:44,696
You know, don't be angry, go to your room until you're better.

429
00:38:44,696 --> 00:38:45,756
All that stuff.

430
00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:49,698
Whereas my sister, allows her daughter to be angry, encourages her.

431
00:38:49,698 --> 00:38:50,338
Are you angry?

432
00:38:50,338 --> 00:38:51,739
Yes, I'm angry.

433
00:38:51,739 --> 00:38:53,439
And they work through it.

434
00:38:53,439 --> 00:38:57,741
And then, you know, it's like, I'm okay now, Mummy.

435
00:38:57,741 --> 00:39:00,392
Because this child, yeah.

436
00:39:01,154 --> 00:39:01,754
Exactly.

437
00:39:01,754 --> 00:39:07,214
God, I wish I was allowed to express that as a child because I can't, I wouldn't be me.

438
00:39:07,214 --> 00:39:08,134
I'd be a different person.

439
00:39:08,134 --> 00:39:21,294
I'd be on a different path, but it would have been nice not to have 52 years of not making
sense of stuff and flying off the handle and breaking my knuckles against walls and, and,

440
00:39:21,294 --> 00:39:22,634
things like that.

441
00:39:22,634 --> 00:39:24,034
Um, but I didn't.

442
00:39:24,034 --> 00:39:25,994
So, you know, I can't change that past.

443
00:39:25,994 --> 00:39:29,314
Um, you know, I just, as you said, I have to love little Hamish who was

444
00:39:29,438 --> 00:39:34,954
angry at dad, angry at mum, just say hey little Hamish it's cool you were doing the best
you could.

445
00:39:35,118 --> 00:39:49,354
So, know, I do agree with what you've just said, but I find that the children that are
allowed to be who they need to be at any point with all their emotions where they don't

446
00:39:49,354 --> 00:39:54,276
feel rejected because of their emotions or the love is not taken away from them.

447
00:39:55,136 --> 00:40:03,860
They don't necessarily have the need to work with the emotions to the level that we do,
for example, right, to the level where

448
00:40:03,948 --> 00:40:11,414
want to understand it, you want to explore it, you want to open the platform for other
people to feel safe, to express their own emotions.

449
00:40:11,414 --> 00:40:22,262
And so their work in this world will be different to the work that we need to do, because
our generation was different and our generation is now bringing the awareness.

450
00:40:22,262 --> 00:40:30,328
If you look on the Internet, most of the podcasters, I don't know what they're called, but
most of the people that are doing

451
00:40:30,971 --> 00:40:34,053
work similar to yours, where you're putting it out there.

452
00:40:34,053 --> 00:40:35,594
People are learning knowledge.

453
00:40:35,594 --> 00:40:38,595
People are hearing experiences from others.

454
00:40:38,856 --> 00:40:42,798
Those are people, similar generation.

455
00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:49,103
And the youngsters, if you look at them, they speak of completely different things.

456
00:40:49,103 --> 00:40:55,297
Things that we might still not understand, and they already understand it because they
need to bring different knowledge into the world.

457
00:40:55,297 --> 00:40:57,729
I hope that makes

458
00:40:59,940 --> 00:41:01,823
Yep, that was a snot klaap.

459
00:41:01,921 --> 00:41:02,926
Yeah.

460
00:41:03,526 --> 00:41:09,671
That was a massive snot klaap because, you know, I hadn't considered that.

461
00:41:10,152 --> 00:41:16,917
But absolutely, you know, they have a different mindset, a different way of thinking and
seeing and fine.

462
00:41:18,218 --> 00:41:19,119
Yeah.

463
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:20,420
Thank you for that.

464
00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:22,422
I've now got to not reconsider.

465
00:41:22,422 --> 00:41:25,644
I've now got to reassess a little bit and that's just brilliant.

466
00:41:25,785 --> 00:41:27,806
I love that.

467
00:41:28,907 --> 00:41:31,909
And that makes sense as well because my...

468
00:41:32,288 --> 00:41:36,019
real sense is humanity is doing this.

469
00:41:36,019 --> 00:41:39,700
Yeah, there's more, there's more going down that way.

470
00:41:40,540 --> 00:41:44,641
our parents went through, you know, end of the war, baby boomers, that kind of thing.

471
00:41:44,681 --> 00:41:50,563
They had all that scarcity, all that fear, all that absolute poverty post World War Two.

472
00:41:51,363 --> 00:41:54,904
My generation, you know, here's the keys, go out, come back tonight.

473
00:41:55,304 --> 00:41:56,685
That absolute freedom.

474
00:41:56,685 --> 00:42:01,676
And now, you know, come back, phone up five to five minutes, that kind of completely the
opposite.

475
00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:14,914
every generation is learning more so I am seeing we are all doing this and then the kids
your kids generation they've got their own stuff to deal with they'll be they'll be messed

476
00:42:14,914 --> 00:42:25,498
up in the same way that you were by your parents to cope with the next lot yeah that's not
fair is it we do our best and it still doesn't work yeah

477
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:35,734
And you know the thing is you can be as aware as you want to and you can be as awakened as
you can but you are still a new human and I think a lot of people forget that and a lot of

478
00:42:35,734 --> 00:42:47,170
people have this prejudgment that well if I'm awakened then I need to be perfect or I am
gonna be perfect and you know a lot of people a lot of my clients see me in that light as

479
00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:48,131
well and

480
00:42:48,651 --> 00:42:55,311
you know, I like to kind of bring them back to Earth and be like, no, I also slip up and I
do this and I did that and I did that.

481
00:42:55,311 --> 00:42:57,011
And they go, really?

482
00:42:57,011 --> 00:42:57,611
Exactly.

483
00:42:57,611 --> 00:42:58,691
Exactly that face.

484
00:42:58,691 --> 00:42:59,631
Perfect.

485
00:43:00,551 --> 00:43:03,671
And and you don't get 100 percent.

486
00:43:03,671 --> 00:43:04,611
And they go, what?

487
00:43:04,611 --> 00:43:09,171
And I'm like, well, yeah, because I am still only a human.

488
00:43:09,171 --> 00:43:10,771
And I know that sounds ridiculous.

489
00:43:10,771 --> 00:43:16,992
But, know, we are in this humanly body and the main

490
00:43:16,992 --> 00:43:21,995
The main task for us here on Earth is to experience emotions.

491
00:43:22,255 --> 00:43:23,486
Right.

492
00:43:23,486 --> 00:43:25,256
So that is.

493
00:43:25,977 --> 00:43:27,778
That is why we here.

494
00:43:28,179 --> 00:43:39,745
So I can be as awakened as I can and as aware as I can, but I still have to go through the
emotions in order for me to understand what is the next level, what is the next step.

495
00:43:40,306 --> 00:43:42,026
So, yeah.

496
00:43:43,067 --> 00:43:43,647
I love it.

497
00:43:43,647 --> 00:43:44,958
I love the journey.

498
00:43:45,279 --> 00:43:46,942
Yeah, it doesn't get easier.

499
00:43:46,942 --> 00:43:47,854
You just get better.

500
00:43:47,854 --> 00:43:48,684
Yeah.

501
00:43:49,346 --> 00:43:50,610
True, very true.

502
00:43:50,610 --> 00:43:51,794
I'm gonna remember that.

503
00:43:51,794 --> 00:43:52,797
I love that.

504
00:43:52,797 --> 00:43:54,795
Doesn't get easier, you just get better at it.

505
00:43:54,795 --> 00:43:59,427
I think this is, this is fascinating, really, really interesting.

506
00:43:59,427 --> 00:44:08,601
And just that whole, that whole process of joining those dots, making sense of things,
feeling that discomfort.

507
00:44:08,682 --> 00:44:15,165
mean, you've already, you've already said, I'm having an awakening, things aren't happy,
things aren't easy.

508
00:44:15,165 --> 00:44:17,596
You know, I'm not, I'm not happy where I am.

509
00:44:17,596 --> 00:44:19,567
I'm curious, but it's frightening.

510
00:44:19,567 --> 00:44:20,307
And

511
00:44:20,727 --> 00:44:26,494
I get more curious and then, you know, looking around, they phone up you, they go online,
podcast, whatever.

512
00:44:26,494 --> 00:44:28,456
It's a journey, isn't it?

513
00:44:28,456 --> 00:44:32,601
It is not necessarily a long journey, but it is a journey and it's...

514
00:44:33,442 --> 00:44:35,094
Yeah, once you're on it, you can't change.

515
00:44:35,094 --> 00:44:36,425
You can't stop.

516
00:44:37,554 --> 00:44:39,436
And you can't ignore it as well.

517
00:44:39,436 --> 00:44:52,427
It's not like you can say, OK, well, I'm going to awaken to this point and then I'll stay
there, you know, and I'll just enjoy life and it'll be nice and easy because we as humans

518
00:44:52,427 --> 00:44:54,608
constantly have to evolve.

519
00:44:54,608 --> 00:45:06,758
And it's like, you know, a lot of I find that a lot of my clients find comfort in that
because nobody ever comes to me when they're in that happy limbo.

520
00:45:07,152 --> 00:45:18,467
You know, where everything is kind of going great and their life is sorted and they've got
happy wife and a great children and car and work and house and everything is just like

521
00:45:18,467 --> 00:45:18,717
great.

522
00:45:18,717 --> 00:45:21,738
Yeah, we're going to holiday three times a week, but three times a year.

523
00:45:21,738 --> 00:45:23,929
But Pavli, can you help me grow?

524
00:45:24,169 --> 00:45:25,810
Nobody does that.

525
00:45:26,330 --> 00:45:35,454
That is just the pause for us to take a breath before the next level, you know, and and so
I feel

526
00:45:36,142 --> 00:45:47,189
A lot of the times when people speak of this like a placebo moment in their life where,
know, like everything is going great and everything is kind of calm and the waters are

527
00:45:47,189 --> 00:45:48,200
nice.

528
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,622
You don't grow in that.

529
00:45:50,622 --> 00:46:02,319
And that is why we will eventually look for some sort of drama, whether we start
extracting things from the past because we've watched a movie or a series or a podcast or

530
00:46:02,319 --> 00:46:05,515
we heard something and all of a sudden the past

531
00:46:05,515 --> 00:46:09,097
is in front of us with all the things that we didn't see before.

532
00:46:09,097 --> 00:46:12,859
And we start tapping into that because that drama gets us going.

533
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:26,206
Or whether we endure some sort of traumatic experience in order for us to be pushed into
the situation that no longer feels as good as the limbo would.

534
00:46:26,367 --> 00:46:29,328
But we never grow in that space.

535
00:46:29,969 --> 00:46:34,251
You know, if someone is getting constant ace at school,

536
00:46:34,767 --> 00:46:40,627
they eventually going to kind of go, well, I'm not going to study anymore because I mean,
could ace anyway.

537
00:46:40,627 --> 00:46:42,447
So why would I do that?

538
00:46:42,886 --> 00:46:50,307
You know, and then all of a sudden they get a, I don't know, whatever it is, CD 50%, let's
say.

539
00:46:50,447 --> 00:46:53,247
And they go, oh my God, but I'm an ace student.

540
00:46:53,247 --> 00:46:56,367
I need to now come and I need to figure out what happened here.

541
00:46:56,367 --> 00:46:58,707
And that's what the journey is about.

542
00:46:58,927 --> 00:47:05,027
You know, so a lot of people want it to be easy, but it's not about being easy.

543
00:47:05,263 --> 00:47:06,605
Because when it's easy, it's boring.

544
00:47:06,605 --> 00:47:08,946
I think there's another layer to that as well.

545
00:47:08,946 --> 00:47:10,986
I completely agree.

546
00:47:10,986 --> 00:47:17,028
I think, I mean, you mentioned it a while ago, you know, when stuff gets easy, you'll look
like, crap, what's coming.

547
00:47:18,769 --> 00:47:24,830
But I think, I think what's really important as well is your awakening can take a
lifetime.

548
00:47:24,830 --> 00:47:29,732
It doesn't have to be every day, six hours a day of tests and this, that, and the other.

549
00:47:29,732 --> 00:47:32,092
And you've got to love yourself at that spot.

550
00:47:32,092 --> 00:47:34,715
You know, as you said, if I suddenly realized

551
00:47:34,715 --> 00:47:37,357
I have a repeated behavior where I don't listen.

552
00:47:37,357 --> 00:47:38,008
What do say?

553
00:47:38,008 --> 00:47:39,829
I don't listen on my phone.

554
00:47:40,550 --> 00:47:44,833
It's just that next level of awareness.

555
00:47:45,393 --> 00:47:51,818
It's not a journey of I have to, I must, I have to.

556
00:47:51,818 --> 00:47:54,800
It is curiosity and awareness, isn't it?

557
00:47:54,821 --> 00:47:56,012
It's a gentle journey.

558
00:47:56,012 --> 00:47:58,563
It might be scary, but it's a gentle journey.

559
00:47:58,884 --> 00:48:00,096
Absolutely.

560
00:48:01,968 --> 00:48:03,409
You're so right there.

561
00:48:03,409 --> 00:48:07,732
And I really love the point that you made about loving yourself throughout the journey.

562
00:48:07,732 --> 00:48:14,237
And I think that's so important because these days we have so many judgments.

563
00:48:14,237 --> 00:48:29,748
We have access to so many perfect people out there that portray this perfection and this
having all of it figured out and having the lifestyle that everybody supposedly wants.

564
00:48:30,222 --> 00:48:34,162
And yet deep down, they bleeding every single day.

565
00:48:34,162 --> 00:48:39,582
And a lot of the youngsters, I see it obviously with my daughter, she's turning 12.

566
00:48:40,242 --> 00:48:41,762
They want that.

567
00:48:41,762 --> 00:48:45,222
They want people to almost envy them.

568
00:48:45,222 --> 00:48:49,062
They want to believe that their life is better than what it actually is.

569
00:48:49,062 --> 00:48:52,742
And if if they don't make people believe that.

570
00:48:53,482 --> 00:48:58,742
They've now started to take it as a failure, which is frightening.

571
00:48:58,775 --> 00:49:10,238
which is something that we really need to start thinking about as a human race, because
we've now put all these standards out there and the poor children these days have these

572
00:49:10,238 --> 00:49:12,289
standards to fulfill.

573
00:49:12,549 --> 00:49:18,150
And that is just crazy, you know, because then where is the authenticity in it?

574
00:49:18,150 --> 00:49:27,813
Because if I don't have this standard of living or I'm not that good or I'm not that, I
don't know, pretty, then I can't

575
00:49:28,203 --> 00:49:32,521
be authentic anymore, then I need to pretend that I am that.

576
00:49:32,663 --> 00:49:37,304
And I think that's such a slippery road that we have taken on as human race.

577
00:49:37,304 --> 00:49:38,835
That is interesting.

578
00:49:39,215 --> 00:49:40,567
That really fascinates me.

579
00:49:40,567 --> 00:49:44,010
That is the next level of authenticity, isn't it?

580
00:49:44,010 --> 00:49:45,360
So I've got my phone.

581
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,982
Doesn't he look beautiful?

582
00:49:46,982 --> 00:49:48,743
Chiseled, Hemingworth, that kind of thing.

583
00:49:48,743 --> 00:49:50,484
Or doesn't she look beautiful?

584
00:49:51,606 --> 00:49:52,877
Yeah, it is just that next.

585
00:49:52,877 --> 00:49:54,868
It is just.

586
00:49:55,069 --> 00:49:55,839
Big just.

587
00:49:55,839 --> 00:50:02,095
Just that next level of authenticity where those kids will have to learn that.

588
00:50:02,095 --> 00:50:03,956
We had to learn our lessons.

589
00:50:03,956 --> 00:50:06,678
I guess that's theirs, poor buggers.

590
00:50:06,771 --> 00:50:10,660
And it's it's in their face all the time, isn't it?

591
00:50:11,411 --> 00:50:12,021
Absolutely.

592
00:50:12,021 --> 00:50:14,892
that's, I think that is what we didn't have.

593
00:50:14,892 --> 00:50:16,672
You know, we had the break.

594
00:50:16,672 --> 00:50:25,434
I mean, if we were running outside for six hours a day, nobody really cared what you
looked like after three hours, because I mean, like, you know, there wasn't a mirror,

595
00:50:25,434 --> 00:50:28,555
there wasn't even an opportunity for you to look any better anyway.

596
00:50:28,555 --> 00:50:35,817
But these days, because the access onto social media, the way they look, you know, on the
phone, they can just look in the camera.

597
00:50:36,077 --> 00:50:37,197
It's constant.

598
00:50:37,197 --> 00:50:41,148
So the pressure on the youngsters is so much bigger.

599
00:50:41,148 --> 00:50:46,039
But then again, I do believe that that's the next level of the awakening.

600
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:55,862
If I look at it from a holistic as humankind, the next level of awakening is really just
returning home.

601
00:50:55,862 --> 00:51:01,083
And again, that's another cliche, but it really is just that.

602
00:51:01,284 --> 00:51:10,386
You know, the way you were made, the way you were born, the way you feel comfortable, that
is what you're supposed to

603
00:51:11,646 --> 00:51:14,168
not what everybody else wants you to be.

604
00:51:14,168 --> 00:51:31,547
And I think this is just the next level because, you know, I feel that the world right now
is getting overly filled with social media and the fakeness of everything and everyone.

605
00:51:31,547 --> 00:51:37,911
And I think it has to get there in order for them people go, I don't want to do that
anymore.

606
00:51:37,911 --> 00:51:39,051
Geez, I feel so tired of it.

607
00:51:39,051 --> 00:51:40,658
Like I just want to wake up and

608
00:51:40,658 --> 00:51:44,398
You know, I used to use makeup.

609
00:51:44,398 --> 00:51:56,638
I colored my hair and about five years ago, I gave it all up and it was the greatest
decision I could have ever made because my life is so much easier.

610
00:51:56,638 --> 00:52:00,518
My mornings, I can just wake up and I'm out of the house in 10 minutes.

611
00:52:00,518 --> 00:52:02,338
I love that.

612
00:52:02,538 --> 00:52:09,840
Whoever out there, if you want to have an easy life, give up all of that because and you
know, sometimes I look in the mirror and I'm like you.

613
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:15,757
wow, okay, what the world has to deal with today, but you know what, they just have to
deal with it because this is who I am.

614
00:52:15,978 --> 00:52:23,389
And the nonchalant about it, it feels so great, so

615
00:52:23,389 --> 00:52:38,196
I think we've tapped into there a really, really interesting conversation that I would
love to bring into a group setting because as kids, we had things to deal with.

616
00:52:38,196 --> 00:52:39,657
Kids now are more authentic.

617
00:52:39,657 --> 00:52:40,617
There's less attachment.

618
00:52:40,617 --> 00:52:43,348
They're more like to scream and I want this, I want this.

619
00:52:44,789 --> 00:52:48,386
They're more authentic to who they are rather than I need to be loved.

620
00:52:48,386 --> 00:52:49,028
Mm

621
00:52:49,449 --> 00:52:55,182
Conversely, you've now got that next layer of the onion, which is she's beautiful, he's
beautiful, I want to be.

622
00:52:55,783 --> 00:52:58,044
This just taps back into my addiction.

623
00:52:58,044 --> 00:53:02,946
was hiding from, hiding from, and I had to crash to make sense of it.

624
00:53:03,067 --> 00:53:08,510
Unfortunately, many kids are, they're taking their own lives because they can't cope with
that.

625
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:12,373
I guess that's the same as the drinker who killed himself and the drug addict who
overdosed.

626
00:53:12,373 --> 00:53:22,400
Yeah, I love the different aspects of the conversation that we are tapping into today, you
know, and the moments, the aha moments that we bring in for each other.

627
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,211
I think that is so powerful.

628
00:53:26,174 --> 00:53:29,216
Yeah, I like that.

629
00:53:29,216 --> 00:53:40,522
is why I'm enjoying these podcasts and these conversations because it is challenging, it
is interesting and I mean, I never know where they're going to go at all.

630
00:53:40,522 --> 00:53:42,764
It is really, really interesting.

631
00:53:42,764 --> 00:53:43,985
Okay, I know.

632
00:53:43,985 --> 00:53:46,706
I want to go back a little bit to when you...

633
00:53:51,138 --> 00:53:58,601
You separated from your husband and obviously you left, there was a big void in your life
where that part of your family had gone.

634
00:53:58,601 --> 00:54:03,309
What happened there around relationships and connecting with people?

635
00:54:03,309 --> 00:54:05,072
Did you see a difference?

636
00:54:06,442 --> 00:54:10,637
So I would say that for the

637
00:54:10,922 --> 00:54:29,888
maybe a year after I moved out was a of finding who I was, but already as soon as I was
separated, because at first we went through separation before the divorce was finalized

638
00:54:29,888 --> 00:54:31,689
and already in the separation.

639
00:54:31,689 --> 00:54:39,797
So we used to work for the same company and he left the company about maybe a year before
I left, before we separated.

640
00:54:39,797 --> 00:54:43,300
I worked, he was on a board level.

641
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:47,864
So he was one of the CEOs, what have you.

642
00:54:47,864 --> 00:54:50,225
And I was the HR.

643
00:54:50,946 --> 00:54:55,320
And that was always the elephant in the room, right?

644
00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:00,404
Because all of a sudden the wife of the CEO is the HR.

645
00:55:00,404 --> 00:55:01,475
I mean like, yeah, right.

646
00:55:01,475 --> 00:55:03,696
I'm gonna tell you something confidentially.

647
00:55:04,101 --> 00:55:10,084
You know, I'm going to complain about the fact that I haven't had leave in three years,
you know, because you're going to go and take it.

648
00:55:10,144 --> 00:55:21,549
And it was so difficult and yet so rewarding for me to find my own presence in the company
and to find my own ways with people.

649
00:55:21,830 --> 00:55:28,553
And I remember when he when I left, when I left my ex -husband and obviously people in the
company found

650
00:55:30,895 --> 00:55:44,436
It's almost like I then became more authentic, but yet very fake at that point, but more
authentic with how I was talking to people.

651
00:55:44,436 --> 00:55:57,406
And it all of a sudden stopped being about me being the married woman to the previous CEO
and being Pavli, the HR manager.

652
00:55:57,527 --> 00:56:00,809
And there was an interesting shift that I saw where I

653
00:56:01,081 --> 00:56:05,623
all of a sudden invited into situations that I wouldn't have been before.

654
00:56:05,623 --> 00:56:10,545
And I had comments made that would have never happened before.

655
00:56:10,545 --> 00:56:17,168
people started noticing that I was changing my behavior and I was more happier and I was
more open.

656
00:56:17,168 --> 00:56:21,990
I could talk to people more freely and they could see the change.

657
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:24,470
And obviously I had no idea at that time.

658
00:56:25,091 --> 00:56:31,113
So the change within me of feeling the freedom was absolutely huge.

659
00:56:32,003 --> 00:56:40,546
And at that point in my life, I was still very much about the 3D reality.

660
00:56:40,546 --> 00:56:44,988
I wanted to be beautiful at all costs.

661
00:56:44,988 --> 00:56:58,173
I wore high heels, mini dresses, all those things, makeup, hair done, and all of it to
play my part, to attract people almost into my space.

662
00:56:59,453 --> 00:57:01,474
Hiding behind the mask.

663
00:57:02,569 --> 00:57:09,090
kind of not allowing any of the trauma into my forefront because it was too painful.

664
00:57:09,350 --> 00:57:14,310
And so I ended up for that period of about 12 months.

665
00:57:14,550 --> 00:57:21,890
It was almost like a game, you know, where I was freer and yet I could feel so much
heavier.

666
00:57:22,170 --> 00:57:24,171
It was a weird dynamic and

667
00:57:24,171 --> 00:57:27,692
Eventually I couldn't, you know, I couldn't do it anymore.

668
00:57:27,692 --> 00:57:40,616
I started saying no to things, started saying no to people, you know, the way they would
interact with me or the way they would make me feel in certain situations.

669
00:57:40,616 --> 00:57:48,888
And I think for me, that was probably one of the biggest parts in which I was like, whoa,
okay, what did I allow everyone to do?

670
00:57:48,888 --> 00:57:52,719
You know, and that was so normal for me because that meant

671
00:57:53,364 --> 00:58:01,567
that I was desired, that people loved me, people wanted me, know, whatever that self
esteem needed at that point.

672
00:58:01,608 --> 00:58:04,909
But it was all just so fake.

673
00:58:05,389 --> 00:58:19,355
So I think for me in that time, it was inevitable for me to start digging into my own
values and stop receiving them from the outer world.

674
00:58:19,355 --> 00:58:20,856
And I think that is

675
00:58:21,850 --> 00:58:33,713
absolutely crucial for anyone, not just people that are going through awakening, even
those that are fully asleep, to start realizing that to go out there for self validation

676
00:58:33,713 --> 00:58:46,876
and for confirmation and approval is such a slippery road to take because you just never
know when the ice is too thin and you're going to go under and you're going to completely

677
00:58:46,876 --> 00:58:51,717
lose yourself there because that's not who you are.

678
00:58:52,167 --> 00:59:02,290
So I think people, if they don't take anything else out of it today, I think this is so
important to always vet with yourself, is this okay with me?

679
00:59:02,290 --> 00:59:05,350
Am I the one that's going to be happy if I do this?

680
00:59:05,471 --> 00:59:08,191
And if the answer is no, then ask.

681
00:59:08,191 --> 00:59:13,423
You don't have to not do it, but you have to ask yourself then, why do I want to do it
anyway?

682
00:59:13,423 --> 00:59:19,474
Why is it important for me to do it, to receive that external validation?

683
00:59:19,474 --> 00:59:21,536
Because that is just so important.

684
00:59:21,536 --> 00:59:22,296
Yep.

685
00:59:22,937 --> 00:59:24,217
Absolutely.

686
00:59:25,278 --> 00:59:26,318
It is.

687
00:59:27,219 --> 00:59:27,789
Absolutely.

688
00:59:27,789 --> 00:59:29,100
That is so important.

689
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:35,583
It's however, it's difficult to become aware that you are seeking that externally.

690
00:59:36,444 --> 00:59:40,916
I remember when I was people pleasing, was it was it was for me.

691
00:59:40,916 --> 00:59:42,827
Yeah, I'll do that for you.

692
00:59:42,827 --> 00:59:43,548
I'll do this.

693
00:59:43,548 --> 00:59:46,890
I'll be that I'll be whatever you want me to be just so you like me.

694
00:59:46,890 --> 00:59:50,452
And you do you do get that buzz, but it's never enough.

695
00:59:50,452 --> 00:59:51,552
It's like

696
00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:52,740
carrot.

697
00:59:53,982 --> 01:00:00,188
Another carrot, know, grow your own carrots, you're fine, but it's it's never enough.

698
01:00:00,188 --> 01:00:01,730
It's not sustainable.

699
01:00:01,730 --> 01:00:04,229
And as you said, you're on that.

700
01:00:04,229 --> 01:00:09,304
right there, Hamish, where you say that it's so difficult to recognize that.

701
01:00:09,304 --> 01:00:12,117
It's so difficult to become aware of it.

702
01:00:13,058 --> 01:00:22,688
And I think, you know, if people every now and then just wake up in the morning and just
ask themselves, you know, who am I today?

703
01:00:24,512 --> 01:00:39,507
And just there in bed, the minute you wake up with the messy hair and the beautiful
flowery breath that we all wake up with and the creases on your cheek from the pillow and

704
01:00:39,507 --> 01:00:45,173
all of those things that are just so natural where you are in your own habitat.

705
01:00:45,173 --> 01:00:49,078
You are not judged by anybody else in that moment.

706
01:00:49,078 --> 01:00:51,910
And just asking yourself that little tiny question.

707
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:56,253
And yet that question is one of the most powerful one you can ever ask yourself.

708
01:00:56,333 --> 01:00:58,594
Who am I today?

709
01:00:59,135 --> 01:01:01,987
What do I want to bring into the world today?

710
01:01:01,987 --> 01:01:05,479
What do I want the world to receive from me today?

711
01:01:06,620 --> 01:01:16,467
And just by asking that, if you divulge from that in the day, there will be a feeling
inside of your body that will tell you, but you said you're going to be this today.

712
01:01:16,467 --> 01:01:18,448
And all of a sudden you are that.

713
01:01:19,688 --> 01:01:26,007
You know, think that those little questions can be so powerful for people and yet so
little of us do

714
01:01:29,354 --> 01:01:33,413
Yep, I'm going to try that first thing in the morning before my brain's had a chance to
kick in.

715
01:01:33,413 --> 01:01:34,284
Who do I want to be?

716
01:01:34,284 --> 01:01:35,676
Yeah.

717
01:01:36,038 --> 01:01:36,739
I want coffee.

718
01:01:36,739 --> 01:01:37,772
No, who do I want to be?

719
01:01:37,772 --> 01:01:39,083
Not what do I want?

720
01:01:40,300 --> 01:01:42,473
Coffee is after this answer.

721
01:01:42,994 --> 01:01:44,085
Absolutely.

722
01:01:44,085 --> 01:01:45,685
Delay that gratification.

723
01:01:45,685 --> 01:01:46,586
Yeah.

724
01:01:46,586 --> 01:01:49,748
I think that's really, really interesting.

725
01:01:49,748 --> 01:01:52,659
But it also goes back to what you said earlier on.

726
01:01:52,659 --> 01:01:54,410
You do get these messages.

727
01:01:54,590 --> 01:01:57,742
Your inner voice, your heart, your gut is telling you.

728
01:01:57,742 --> 01:02:02,594
It's going tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, snot club.

729
01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:03,575
It does.

730
01:02:03,575 --> 01:02:05,095
You do get them.

731
01:02:05,317 --> 01:02:06,278
yeah.

732
01:02:06,301 --> 01:02:08,902
Pavli, this has been a fabulous conversation.

733
01:02:08,902 --> 01:02:10,152
I've really enjoyed it.

734
01:02:10,152 --> 01:02:28,307
I've really enjoyed your wisdom, your humor and your passion for making sense of change
because it must have been tough to say to your husband, the father of your child, this

735
01:02:28,307 --> 01:02:33,218
isn't working, I'm going separate ways, but you chose to do that for you.

736
01:02:36,067 --> 01:02:37,498
You seem fairly normal.

737
01:02:37,498 --> 01:02:43,414
I can't say more than fairly.

738
01:02:45,695 --> 01:02:48,380
was thanking you for the normal, not the fairly.

739
01:02:48,380 --> 01:02:49,121
see.

740
01:02:49,121 --> 01:02:50,301
Okay.

741
01:02:50,621 --> 01:02:59,246
But I think, you know, what you're doing to help people and help them through their own
journeys and making sense of things and encouraging them, I think that's, you know, that's

742
01:02:59,246 --> 01:03:00,407
all we can do really, isn't it?

743
01:03:00,407 --> 01:03:02,357
Help people make sense of stuff.

744
01:03:02,357 --> 01:03:06,560
I think that is really, really, really profound stuff.

745
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:07,970
So yeah, love it.

746
01:03:08,325 --> 01:03:19,000
And you know, I just want to make a small correction there because I feel that since I am
authentic, then I need to set this straight.

747
01:03:21,042 --> 01:03:26,585
I didn't move out from my ex -husband because I wanted to.

748
01:03:26,945 --> 01:03:28,686
I did it for my daughter.

749
01:03:28,686 --> 01:03:34,769
At that point, she was the driving wheel where I was like, I do not want her to grow up in
this.

750
01:03:34,769 --> 01:03:37,510
I don't want her to believe that this is normal.

751
01:03:38,598 --> 01:03:55,199
And it was again, the mother in me that knew that my responsibility was now towards my
child to show her what is okay and what is not, what is normal and what is not, and how I

752
01:03:55,199 --> 01:04:08,593
wanted her to experience relationships and almost teach her that it's okay to put a
boundary and if the boundary is not met over and over again,

753
01:04:08,593 --> 01:04:11,916
then it's okay to leave the situation no matter what the situation is.

754
01:04:12,497 --> 01:04:26,090
And the reason why I want to set the record straight is because it's okay if people make
the changes for other people or other reasons than themselves at the beginning of the

755
01:04:26,090 --> 01:04:27,211
process.

756
01:04:27,232 --> 01:04:33,137
Because sometimes we need that driver, we need that crutch, we need

757
01:04:33,329 --> 01:04:45,399
that believe that we are doing it for someone else because we're not yet at the level of
self -love to do it for ourselves, I would have never left my marriage if it was just for

758
01:04:45,399 --> 01:04:49,142
me, because I married to stay in it for life.

759
01:04:49,142 --> 01:04:57,388
You know, I was one of the ones that believed, you know, we signed an antinatural or
whatever you call it.

760
01:04:58,150 --> 01:05:02,272
And I had no idea that I signed anything because I didn't care.

761
01:05:02,565 --> 01:05:11,130
I genuinely didn't care about the idea of it ending because for me that was absolutely no
question.

762
01:05:11,130 --> 01:05:12,671
I mean, I'm marrying you for life.

763
01:05:12,671 --> 01:05:15,392
I'm not marrying you to get a divorce, you know?

764
01:05:15,552 --> 01:05:30,921
And so I find that very often people make the first change, the beginning of their
awakening journey, if that's the right word to use, for someone else.

765
01:05:31,387 --> 01:05:42,153
because they can't handle the way the parents are painting or the child is feeling or the
child is crying or this and that.

766
01:05:42,153 --> 01:05:43,444
doesn't really matter.

767
01:05:43,444 --> 01:05:56,571
But the fact is that what you do afterwards and as you start realizing, as you start
growing, as you start developing the self -love towards yourself, then that is important

768
01:05:56,571 --> 01:05:58,591
to carry on the journey for you.

769
01:05:58,612 --> 01:05:59,682
I hope that makes sense.

770
01:05:59,682 --> 01:06:01,583
I just wanted to set that straight.

771
01:06:03,047 --> 01:06:04,048
That was brilliant.

772
01:06:04,048 --> 01:06:04,948
Yeah.

773
01:06:05,289 --> 01:06:05,819
Thank you.

774
01:06:05,819 --> 01:06:08,732
I'll answer that again.

775
01:06:10,614 --> 01:06:11,424
Thank you for that.

776
01:06:11,424 --> 01:06:13,797
And you've just added that richness to it.

777
01:06:13,797 --> 01:06:23,545
And you've also helped me and other people make sense of, I can't do this for myself, but
I can do it for something I love more than myself.

778
01:06:24,286 --> 01:06:29,330
And I think that was a really, really important, yeah, at that moment, absolutely.

779
01:06:32,017 --> 01:06:34,931
I think that was really super, thank you.

780
01:06:35,593 --> 01:06:39,729
Pavli, where can people find out more about you and what you do?

781
01:06:42,145 --> 01:06:45,246
So they can follow me on social media.

782
01:06:45,246 --> 01:06:51,397
So I am quite active on Facebook, Instagram.

783
01:06:51,397 --> 01:06:57,648
I do have a TikTok, but yeah, it's, know, there's so many things that one has to do.

784
01:06:57,669 --> 01:07:01,570
I'm not the bestest of friends with social media, but I am quite good on Facebook.

785
01:07:01,570 --> 01:07:04,391
So people can find me on Facebook.

786
01:07:04,391 --> 01:07:06,451
All my events are on there.

787
01:07:06,831 --> 01:07:09,692
What I do, you know, what specials I offer.

788
01:07:10,488 --> 01:07:12,590
They can also check out my website.

789
01:07:12,590 --> 01:07:17,734
It's www .holistic -soul -healer .co .za.

790
01:07:18,135 --> 01:07:22,098
On my social media, it's pretty easy at Healer Pavli.

791
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:27,643
And they can also get hold of me on my phone.

792
01:07:28,084 --> 01:07:30,316
I don't know if you're going to be sharing the details at the bottom.

793
01:07:30,316 --> 01:07:32,447
I don't want to be naming everything.

794
01:07:32,628 --> 01:07:37,412
But yeah, and you know, if they're interested

795
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:47,365
just asking a question or if they want to start their journey or if they're not sure what
they want and they're ready to figure it out, then they can reach out.

796
01:07:47,365 --> 01:07:48,366
Lovely.

797
01:07:48,648 --> 01:07:56,443
I think that's great and I wish I had known about you when I was going through mine
because it would have been easier, I think.

798
01:07:57,256 --> 01:07:58,330
Thank you.

799
01:07:58,330 --> 01:07:59,803
Thank you, Hamish.

800
01:08:00,893 --> 01:08:07,528
And last but not least, what is your superpower that you've got from your awakenings?

801
01:08:09,246 --> 01:08:10,891
That's a big question.

802
01:08:10,891 --> 01:08:11,462
Wow.

803
01:08:11,462 --> 01:08:12,915
Super power.

804
01:08:13,219 --> 01:08:21,608
You know, I don't know if you can call it a superpower or not, but I think the ability to
be myself.

805
01:08:23,650 --> 01:08:30,623
in every moment, I think that is what I would call my superpower.

806
01:08:30,623 --> 01:08:33,884
You know, being in truth and speaking my truth.

807
01:08:35,645 --> 01:08:42,588
Because I feel that nothing can then go wrong, even if people don't like it, it's still
the truth and it's never going to change.

808
01:08:42,588 --> 01:08:51,031
So you might not like it, but I don't have to think about it anymore or I don't have to
pretend with it anymore.

809
01:08:51,431 --> 01:08:53,072
It is what it is.

810
01:08:54,178 --> 01:09:01,103
I find that when I teach people how to step into the superpower, as you call it, I love
that.

811
01:09:01,103 --> 01:09:03,134
I'm going to use that going forward.

812
01:09:05,096 --> 01:09:17,785
Life becomes so much easier because they find exactly they can go, well, if you like it or
not, I actually don't have to care because it is the truth.

813
01:09:17,785 --> 01:09:21,226
I mean, I can't do anything about it.

814
01:09:21,247 --> 01:09:23,228
It is what it is.

815
01:09:23,758 --> 01:09:39,145
So I think everyone should step into that superpower and we'll have such beautiful earth
to live on because there is no judgements, there is no prerequisite, there is no pretence

816
01:09:39,145 --> 01:09:41,679
if you are true to who you are.

817
01:09:41,679 --> 01:09:42,720
Brilliant.

818
01:09:43,020 --> 01:09:43,701
Cool.

819
01:09:43,701 --> 01:09:46,243
Well, lovely.

820
01:09:46,243 --> 01:09:47,614
Thank you so much for today.

821
01:09:47,614 --> 01:09:49,305
Thank you for everything.

822
01:09:49,305 --> 01:09:52,828
I've enjoyed it and yeah, wishing you all the very,

823
01:09:53,453 --> 01:09:54,625
Thank you so much, Hamish.

824
01:09:54,625 --> 01:10:00,185
I really appreciate your platform and what you are creating and what you are doing for
people.

825
01:10:00,185 --> 01:10:02,568
Thank you so much and thank you for having me.

826
01:10:03,652 --> 01:10:04,316
Cheers.

827
01:10:04,316 --> 01:10:05,116
Bye

828
01:10:05,227 --> 01:10:05,719
Lovely.

829
01:10:05,719 --> 01:10:06,880
Thank you.

830
01:10:09,899 --> 01:10:14,259
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Crucible: Conversations for the Curious.

831
01:10:14,259 --> 01:10:22,899
If these powerful stories of transformation resonated with you, be sure to like, subscribe
and share this show with anyone who you think could do with a dose of inspiration for

832
01:10:22,899 --> 01:10:23,839
their own journey.

833
01:10:23,839 --> 01:10:30,419
I would really appreciate it if you could make any comments on your favourite podcast
platform as well, that helps me reach more people.

834
01:10:30,419 --> 01:10:33,879
All the important links and information are in the show notes below.

835
01:10:33,879 --> 01:10:36,963
Thank you very much for listening and catch up with you soon.