Michele: Hey, welcome back to software social.
This episode is brought to you by Translate CI.
Translate CI is a tool for developers that helps you localize applications
with high quality human translations.
It supports over 70 languages.
Translate CI eliminates the need to work out of spreadsheets, hire translators
and manually merge language files.
Instead with Translate CI, you can just use git.
Just connect your git repo and Translate CI will pull out phrases and after
a professional translator translates everything, they will merge into your
existing code base with a poll request.
And every time you push code to your git repository, Translate CI any new phrases
out, translate them and create a PR back.
See how you can turn translation from a hassle into a breeze at translateci.com.
Colleen: Hi everyone, and welcome back to software social.
Today, we are super excited to have a special guest, Chris
Spags, the founder of Jet Boost.
Chris, welcome to the show.
Chris: Hey, Colleen.
Thanks for having me on.
You know, I feel like this is the major leagues of bootstrap
podcasts, so I'm a little nervous.
Michele: You're a pro at this though.
You have your own show.
Colleen: That's true.
And we are super happy to talk about Jet Boost with you today.
Do you want to start by telling us a little bit about how you started the
company and how long you've had it?
Chris: Yeah, definitely.
So I started jet boost in 2019, uh, and it kind of came about by accident.
Uh, So Friend of mine, Cory Haines, who you've actually had on the
show before, he was the first person to introduce me to Webflow.
He created a job board using webflow, which Webflow for anyone that doesn't
know is like a visual website builder.
And he built this job board, and it was super impressive.
And there was one issue with it, which was, there was no way to
quickly search through the jobs.
You had to scroll through this long list of jobs.
So I wrote some custom code for him.
He put it on his website, and I didn't really think much about it.
Just like, you know, just helping a friend.
But over the next few months he kept sending more and more
people to me who wanted the same thing for their webflow sites.
So I thought, Hmm, this is interesting.
I did a few of those you know for free as well, but I thought maybe I
could turn this into something that anyone can install on their webflow
site, because most people who use Webflow don't know how to write code.
So I thought, you know, I, I could help out in that way.
Eventually that turned into jet boost.
I built this product where it allowed anyone to add a
search to their webflow site.
From there we expanded and built other plugins for webflow, as well.
Filtering, favoriting, all sorts of different plugins for
the webflow CMS, specifically.
All of those, which you add without writing any custom code yourself.
And really just grew from there via word of mouth and yeah, been doing that
for just over two years now, today.
Michele: What was it in 20?
So it was 2019 that you first started doing this.
Was it 2020 that you joined the calm fund portfolio?
Chris: Yep.
That's correct.
So in 2019, I started it basically as a side project where
I was consulting on the side.
Then I went, full-time on jet boost in oddly enough, March of 2020.
Um, Yeah, which was, I gave my my last client four weeks notice in February.
And then my last day with them was a week before the pandemic really hit in the U S
. Michele: Gosh.
Chris: and I was like, all right.
I hope this works out.
But yeah, then in may of 2020 is when I took the investment from calm fund.
So all that timing did end up working out, eventually.
Michele: And then I think that was how, I don't know if I met you
on Twitter or through calm fund.
I don't remember.
Chris: Yeah, it was actually, it was through calm fund.
So had reached out to them because I had a question that there was
something that I was dealing with, which I can't even remember now.
And they're like, oh, you have to talk to Michelle.
And I was like, okay, like we, we had no connection prior to that.
Um, So, I sent you an email and you sent me back, this just amazing
response, you know, super detailed and just incredible advice.
And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is first of all, thank God I took the
calm fund money because you know, prior to this, I was a first time founder.
I was a solo founder.
So I kind of felt like uh, part, part of the reason I took the investment was to
you know, have access to their network.
And it basically like immediately paid off just from meeting you.
So yeah, that, that's how we originally met.
And then I started sending you my monthly investor update because I
was like, oh my gosh, here's this business guru, that is a genius.
That is so helpful that I need to have on my side.
So yeah.
Michele: I'm struggling to hold it together over here, you're kind.
Oh, and then this crazy thing happened where colleen, up and moved to California
last year, you know, as we discussed Colleen last year became a cool kid,
moved to California, joined a startup.
But she moved to San Diego, which is where you live.
And so then it like turned out that, I guess you guys met each other
through like the indie hackers, meetup or something in San Diego.
Is that right?
Chris: I think I started listening to your podcast because I knew Michelle and then
that's sort of how I met Colleen, you know, at least a one way communication.
But eventually we started chatting about no-code stuff and her
product simple file upload.
Then one day, she was like, yeah, I'm moving to San Diego with my family.
I was like, oh, that's awesome.
And now we meet up like once a week and talk business.
So it's a, yeah, it's worked out well.
Michele: It's funny how those things develop.
Colleen: I know.
Yeah.
I think we were internet friends first.
Cause I was like, Hey, you want to have lunch?
And you were like, sure.
And then I was like, great, what to have lunch every week.
And you're like I guess so.
Michele: Colleen, you're like a Labrador puppy.
Colleen: I know, I know.
Just hang out with me.
That's all I need.
Michele: I think this is the first time we've actually, all three of
us had a conversation, but we have talked about each other conversations.
And like, there was one time when like Colleen and I were talking
about something a couple of months ago, and she was saying how she
was like working through something.
And she was like, well, I was talking to you know, my friend Chris about it.
And I was like, your friend, Chris, hold on.
Colleen: I
Michele: I knew him first.
Chris: That's super funny.
Colleen: So when you started jet boost, what were your consulting hours like?
Were you consulting full-time and this was completely a side project?
Or did you consult three days a week?
Four days a week?
Chris: Yeah, so I was technically consulting 20 hours a week, which
was kind of a terrible setup because it wasn't like I had specific days.
It was just, I was supposed to be doing 20 hours a week, but it ended
up being a lot more because it's like hard to say, you know, sorry, client
I've already worked my four hour stay.
I'm not gonna, you know, answer your calls or respond to your emails.
So, if I was to set up something like that, again, I would do it specifically,
like you said, days of the week where, you know, I'm working for this client
Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and the expectation is set that I don't work.
Thursday, Friday.
Colleen: work is what I have found.
I have tried to set that expectation.
It's still
Chris: It's hard.
Colleen: So you started in 2019, so it's only been two and a half years, right.
And in those two and a half years, you also got married and had a baby?
Chris: Yes.
Colleen: Okay.
Chris: 2020 was kind of a crazy year for me personally, besides the pandemic.
Yeah, it's been really interesting starting the business while I was you
know, essentially single and just, I had nothing else to do, but work
for my client and do side projects.
And you know, that was the, some of my responsibilities to fast-forward to today.
And you know, having a wife in a one-year-old, and maybe should
have another baby on the way.
So, I feel like I've seen the full spectrum of you know, possibilities
of, yeah, just like trying to run the business in having my
personal life changed so much.
And honestly, I don't think, I don't know that I could start jet boots today.
Like Michelle, I don't know how, because you started geocoding
after your daughter was born.
Right?
Like, to me,
Michele: Yeah.
She was four months old when we launched it,
Chris: That's so that's so crazy.
Michele: I think for us, like it was.
You know, like when you have a baby, you have maybe an hour to yourself every day.
And for me that was really helpful because it meant, it was like, okay, if I want
to work on our side projects today like I would think about it the whole day.
Like I would sit down to work at night when she was in bed, and it was go-time.
We would just blast through stuff at night and probably stayed up a little
bit later than we should have, but also we were going to get woken up anyway.
So it's like what you might as well work until midnight.
If you're going to get woken up at midnight and then just go to bed
or not, like, I don't know if I would recommend this path to anyone.
It's what we did.
I don't like, yeah.
I look back now and I'm like, I maybe should've done things differently, but
for me it was actually like motivating because before we had her, I dunno, it was
just easy to spend our weekends just like, you know bingeing TV or whatever, and we
wanted to start stuff, but like, it just never felt like it had to be done then.
And, so then, you know, having a kid on the way.
You know, knowing that daycare was going to be expensive, but then learning
that it was going to be $25,000 a year was like a holy, like forking , okay,
we got to start launching stuff.
Like we gotta go.
We can't, you know, I was like, we could maybe make that much money, you know,
bonuses and raises, but in the next six months, no, like we got to do something.
And so, but, but it's hard.
Like it's, I mean, it's hard on your body too.
Like, I think for you, I mean, you've gone through so much
change and stress in the past.
It is really stressful to launch a company.
I mean, getting married and having kids are like wonderful, but they also,
like, they can be happy stress in a way.
I mean, like planning a wedding is not easy.
Like, you know, all those things are like complicated and doing that in a pandemic.
I mean, I would completely understand if you're just exhausted.
Chris: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about it because I have been going
through a phase where I have felt just very low energy going into this year.
And all throughout the past two and a half years, like, I'm sure you guys would,
feel the same about your businesses.
The highs have been extremely high and the lows have been extremely low.
For me, it's been very different because this is the first business
that I've started and run, it's very different from having a
full-time job or from having clients.
The stress that the business combined with stress a personal life can
be very hard to deal with that.
Michele: Yeah.
Chris: Yeah.
One of the things that has really helped is just having a network
of people and other founders that can relate like you guys.
I'm someone that really struggles to ask for help.
And I always like wait way too long until things have gotten way too bad, whether
it's dealing with my own stress or you know, having a problem in the business
or a technical challenge or whatever.
It's like, I have the mindset where, okay, I need to figure this out.
You know, I need to solve this problem.
And I always admire people are quick to ask for help because it's something
that I struggled with so much.
Because I just think it's such a shortcut to solving problems,
and people are so generous.
Like both of you are so generous with your time, with your advice.
And you know, I think founders, especially because everyone's been there during
the low points, it's like, you want to help other people get through that.
So I think that's really cool.
Michele: You know, hearing that.
I have to wonder, you know, you have a business, you have a spouse, you
have a child, like in that priority lists, do you feel like you come last.
Chris: That's a good question.
And I would say probably, yeah.
Michele: Like prioritizing taking care of yourself.
And, you're talking about you know, handling your stress, for example,
putting that off for a long time.
Chris: Yeah.
One of the things that has been interesting to me is just like
talking about the priorities, I have realized in everyone's
different, but for me, I've realized.
My family definitely comes before the business.
I'm not going to work 12 hour days anymore and not see my son.
And if that means that the business isn't able to, if it negatively
affects the business in some way, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
But you're right that on the priority list, I probably
still put myself last, so yeah.
Michele: And I mean, I found the hard way that that kind of catches up with you
and has its way of making itself known when that, when that's gotten too far.
And I also say that as someone who has been like intending to start
doing yoga, to help with my stress, and then just every day, I just think
about how I should start doing yoga.
Buy a book about doing yoga rather than actually doing it.
I sound like Colleen, as of two years ago, who would read books
about starting a business and not actually start the business?
Chris: Yeah.
Why do we do that?
Like, it's so easy to want to just go, like you said, like
read a book about something.
I did that for probably 10 years.
Like I read so many books about starting businesses and read Paul
Graham's blog and you know, all the things and it wasn't until I started
a business where I was like, oh, now I'm actually learning how to do it.
I learned more in the last two and a half years about running a business
than I did in the previous 15.
But still, like you said, we just like gravitate towards, I'm
going to read a book about yoga instead of putting it in practice.
Michele: Colleen you looked like you were relating pretty high.
Colleen: Oh, yeah.
We talk about atomic habits all the time, but it's the motion verse action
thing that James clear talks about where you're in motion by reading a book about
starting a business or starting yoga.
So you feel like you're making progress, but you don't actually
have to do anything hard.
Whereas action, especially being.
I can't speak for Chris, but I assume Michelle was an excellent student, so
being a perfectionist makes it hard to do something because you're so scared.
In my opinion, it's not even a fear of failure, it's a fear of embarrassment
or it's a fear of not being perfect.
And so motion makes you feel like you're making progress and
it's so easy just to do that.
Whereas, action, actually doing the thing to your point, Chris, you learn so
much faster, but it's such higher risk.
Chris: Yeah.
Colleen: So let's talk a little more about Jet boost.
I mean, it seems like you're kind of living the indie hacker dream.
I mean, right.
You've had great success in two and a half years.
A lot of people toil away for two and a half.
Oh side note.
Did anyone see Nathan Barry's Twitter thread yesterday on
all of his failed companies?
Chris: No.
I missed
that.
Colleen: so good guys.
It made me so happy.
And one of the it's like 10 tweets.
Michele: I'm his failures did not make you happy, but
like it.
Colleen: it totally did.
Michelle.
His failures made me so happy.
Okay guys, it's epic.
But uh, what about convert kit?
Which does what?
A hundred million dollars a year?
They didn't hit two K MRR till after their second year.
Chris: so
Colleen: Right.
Okay, so you have to look it up after the podcast.
I know that made me really,
but anyway, back to Chris.
So Chris hit two K MRR significantly before his second year.
So jet boost has grown pretty quickly.
It seems like it's been pretty successful.
Do you work four hours a day?
Are you living the dream?
Do you spend every Friday at the beach?
Tell us.
Chris: Yeah.
First of all, let me say Jet Boost is not doing a hundred million a year, so
Colleen: well, hurry up, buddy.
No, I'm just kidding.
Chris: yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot, because a lot of time I
feel like I'm not happy with where Jet Boost is, does that currently.
And I have to go back and think, okay, like, it did grow quite fast, you
know, for for an indie hacker business.
I was able to go full time on it pretty quickly after six months.
On one hand, like, I feel like I should be, like you said, working four hours
day, hanging out at the beach, but I'm not, I'm sure a lot of people can relate.
Like I'm not wired like that.
Like I want to keep pushing the business forward and keep growing it.
And I think that's something I'm struggling with right now is, and
I feel like I've heard you say this, Michelle, that maybe I'm
putting words in your mouth, but.
That growth isn't necessarily like a primary goal for geocoding.
And, obviously, you have to grow your business to a certain point to be
sustainable, and I've been struggling with like, okay, what's next?
Like right now I'm just aiming for growth for the sake of
growth, but I don't know why.
And I think that's causing some.
Michele: Hm.
Yeah, we don't aim for growth.
Our goal every year is to just stay the same and then we accidentally grow.
Chris: Okay.
Michele: and, you know, now we're at the point where like, you know, both of us are
full-time and, you know, comfortably so.
We also, I mean, talking about going full-time you went full-time after six
months, I went full-time after four and a half, three and a half years,
like it was four and a half years before both of us were full-time.
But, you know, we waited until it can really, really support us.
And then at that point where it was.
Pretty much for the last couple of years, we've been like, okay, this is great.
Like, let's just keep it at, like, if we keep it at this
level, that would be great.
And then, and then we grow kind of without intending to, which I think is one of the
luxuries of being an independent company.
Chris: Was, was there like a shift at some point for you guys?
Or was that sort
of always the intention?
Michele: I guess the only time we really actively try like, so we were
doing a lot of things to grow and tell people about the product, right?
You know, whenever people had questions related to stuff we did on stack
overflow, like replying to that or on hacker news or you know, being present.
Right.
But, in terms of having an actual, growth goal, the only time we really did was
when we were first talking about Mathias going full-time and we actually did a
poll cash forward and introduced annual plans for the first time to try to like,
build up like a little cash reserve, but that was the only time when I was really
kind of like focused on numbers and trying to, like, you know like increase
our cashflow, the rest of the time.
We really haven't of course we, like, I think there's a difference between not
caring about growth and then, but like still doing marketing, still, you know,
doing sales, all that kind of stuff, and then not caring about growth, and
then to what Colleen said, you know, doing maintenance work and then sitting
on the beach for the rest of the day.
Like those are two very different things.
We're definitely in that first category where we're doing marketing, we're
doing sales, we're doing things to improve all the time, but we, do it
because we like what we do and we like our customers and we like what we work
on and we want to maintain that level.
And we know that if the product stays stagnant and how we talk about the product
stays stagnant, that we won't be able to keep our revenue at the current level.
Chris: Mm.
Michele: and so we're, we're kind of very conscious of not stressing
ourselves out about growth, but also not resting on our laurels either.
But actually, can we just go back to that whole thing Colleen was talking
about, like, so I will admit I never read four hour work week because the
concept just seemed ridiculous to me.
Um, And also I just enjoy what I do.
I know a lot of people love that book and, you know but like this idea that like the
dream and the goal is working, I don't know, I guess an hour a day, and then
spending the rest of the day on the beach.
I'm sure, there's like a handful of people who actually do that, but like, come on.
Aren't we, like, I don't know, setting ourselves up for disappointment as a
community, if that's the goal, like, isn't that just, I just feel like if you're
holding that up as the goal and this idea that people with successful companies are
doing that, isn't that doing a disservice to like founders who are still coming up.
That that's what they should be aiming for.
And that's projecting that.
That's what everybody has, because I still sit at a computer
six to eight hours a day.
Like I don't, I don't sorry.
I'm
Colleen: No.
I totally agree.
Cause I, I always ask people that that's my favorite question,
like, okay, you've made it.
What is your life look like now?
Is not stressed out and no one only works four hours a day.
I have not found that magical person who actually does that.
So yeah, you're right.
That's not a real thing.
I haven't actually read four hour workweek either.
It's just the concept, but there is this ideal that you would get to this
point of safety and security and comfort that allowed you to just do what you
wanted on your for four hours a day and take the rest of the day to do
whatever, but I have not met that person.
And we've had people on, you know, from all levels of, you know, small MRR to 6
million MRR and no one just hangs out.
So you're right.
It's a lie.
I'll call Tim Ferris and let him know.
Michele: I mean, I think that like the whole book, I mean, it's like
premised on you, stuff and you automate it and then you hire a VA
to do the rest of it or something.
But, like, I think what you were saying Chris, like that goal of
having your family be first, like that alone feels like a goal.
And like maybe there are points when you need to grow the revenue
so that you, you know, you took on a support person last year, for
example, like because that burden was getting pretty high on you found an
amazing person in your customer base.
But like that feels like the goal of being able to, you know, check in
and check out and be with your family when you want to be like that feels
like the indie hacker dream to me and being able to choose to live in
the middle of nowhere, like me and, you know, not have to live somewhere
where there are tech jobs, right?
Like that feels like the goal.
And, you know, maybe for, you know, some people it's like you work three
hours in the morning and then, like, you know, our friend, like Marie pool,
and like, she'll go gardening in the middle of the day for a couple of hours.
And then like work late at night.
Probably still doing at least six to eight, if not more hours of work on
a given day, but getting to structure your life, however you want it.
But not necessarily this, like, I don't know, work for an hour a day
and sit on the beach, the rest of it.
Maybe people want that.
Colleen: I still think that's kind of a lie.
Having talked to so many founders now through events we've done in
this podcast, people are always thinking about their business.
I know very few people who successfully maybe zero people
who have their own business and at 5:00 PM can actually turn it off.
Michele: Yeah, I don't think I know anyone who just turns it off at 500.
Chris: yeah, because I think that's why, like a lot of us start businesses is
you're trying to solve a problem, either a problem that you have or someone, you
know, has, and there's a good chance you become passionate about that problem.
And it is hard to turn that off.
Like it's hard to not respond to customers that have questions.
It's hard to not want to, you know noodle on the latest feature you're thinking
about shipping or you know, the latest marketing campaign or whatever it is.
There's a reason you started the business.
And I think that's why most people are, you know, pretty much, no one ends
up working just two hours a day and hanging out with the rest of the time.
Michele: I mean in talking about being a parent, like I think
back to those early years for us.
And like, I I have, I don't know if regrets is the right word, but like, I
feel like, yeah, I was definitely thinking about the business, especially when I
wasn't at work, because you know, when I was at work, I was thinking about work.
And then when I was home, that was my free time.
I mean, we started the business when our daughter was four months old.
We incorporated the business seven days after she was born, which every time I'm
looking for our incorporation paperwork.
I'm just like what, I'm like, but I look, you know, I I guess I've been reading a
lot about attachment theory and the last few weeks, and I have to wonder like,
whether I was as present as a parent, as I should have been, or could have been,
like, I feel like that answer was no.
And I'm really just starting to like, grapple with that right now.
That yeah, while I was playing with her spending time with her as a
baby, I was also thinking about the business in the back of my head.
And of course parents always have stresses on their minds and, you know,
even if you don't have a side project and you're working or you have, you
know, other stresses coming up that are distracting, you that's natural.
But, I always had that stressor and, and I guess I feel yeah, and amount of
like regret now for not having a better.
Balance or not even being able to like turn it off when looking back,
I feel like I really should have.
I just, I know many of us are kind of have a little bit of these like workaholic
tendencies where like, we really love like digging into things and like working
and balancing that with kids is like, it's really hard and stressful for
everybody, for like parents and kids.
Colleen: Yeah, I agree.
And I think such a small percentage of people make it with
starting their own businesses.
I think you're right.
Michelle.
I think that people who make it do have the workaholic tendencies, but
this is something I think about a lot.
You doing that when she was young has enabled you to literally
move across the country.
Cause it's the best thing for your daughter.
And, you have no way.
This is in sliding doors, right?
You have no way to go back and be like, what if I had just kept a corporate
job that didn't take my mental space, then you might be in a totally
different situation now where you wouldn't be able to do that for her.
So I think there's so many trade offs in terms of the amount of work you put
in and success and what you're building for your family long-term versus
what you give up in the short term.
Michele: Yeah.
I mean, there's so many trade-offs and I was just so after reading atomic habits,
that he is like a big fan of journaling and I was reading it and I was like,
Ugh, I'm not going to start journaling.
And then I was like, okay, fine.
Maybe I should start.
Like, I read another book that was like, you've started journaling.
And I was like, fine.
And I was like, totally a chore.
And now I've actually started doing it.
But I read this book called the midnight library a couple of weeks
ago where it talks about like this person, basically they die and then
they get to see what it would have been like if they had made small decisions
at various points in their life.
So like how their life would have been different if they had, you know,
become a rockstar as a teenager or, you know, not broken up with that
person or whatever, and getting to live all those different lives.
And it just occurred to me to start like, journaling that out of like, what would
this be like if you know, we had never started it or I had never gone full time
or I had gone full time a lot sooner.
I think it's interesting and helpful as it like a mental exercise to No, I guess to
what you're saying to be, to be grateful for how things have worked out, even if
along the way there, there were bumps.
Colleen: Yeah.
And I do think this conversation is making me think, we need to reframe
the narrative on what success looks like as an indie hacker business.
Michele: Yes.
Colleen: because.
As we just discussed this mystical idea, isn't real for anyone.
So what does success really look like?
I mean, both of you, to me, both of you look like you're in positions of extreme
success, yet both of you seem kind, kinda, I mean you're happy, but maybe you're
not, you don't feel totally successful.
Like neither of you is like, this is awesome.
I got it.
I'm a success.
I'm just going to enjoy it.
Chris: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this.
There's definitely like the, what is it called?
I think it's like the hedonic.
Colleen: hedonistic Adaptation.
Chris: exactly.
Or it's like, you become used to wherever you're at and whatever gains or losses
you've received and it's like, that just becomes your new normal So yeah,
it's cause I think about this a lot, like if you told me two and a half
years ago, that Jet Boost would be where it's at today, that I'd be able to work
full-time on it and, you know, hire someone to help us support and be able
to comfortably pay him and all of that.
Like, I'd be like, wow, that's insane.
Like, that is seriously insane.
I can't believe that, you know, here, here I am.
Consulting part-time and watching side projects and having them go nowhere.
And I'm sure so many people can relate to that.
And then to finally have one that, that worked, like you said,
Nathan Barry posted the whole list of all his failed companies.
It's like once one finally works, you think, okay, like now, now
everything's going to be amazing.
Now my life is going to be just like perfect and rainbows and great.
Eventually, it just becomes part of your life and it's like your new normal, and
you still have things you have to deal with in new problems and new challenges.
And in those can be good.
Like, there are it's stressful at time.
Like it's stressful thinking.
Okay like thousands of people rely on this business and rely on it running
reliably and performing, you know, the, the job that it's supposed to
do, but it's also a fun challenge.
It's fun to build something that thousands of people use and give you feedback on.
And so yeah, I've really been trying to find that balance as far as thinking
about like what success looks like, what should the goals be going forward?
And, it's still an ongoing process, but working through it for.
Michele: Know, I feel like there is a parallel between starting a business.
And being a parent that, you know, I remember someone telling me when our
daughter was young, that, you know, the problems you have now for what,
whether that's, you know, feeding or whatnot, like you will figure out those
problems, but then more problems will come or more challenges will come.
And so you are always figuring out one challenge and moving on to the
next thing that seems even more complicated and it's like, oh my God,
how are we going to figure this out?
And then you eventually figure that out and then you go then the next thing.
And then the next thing, and I feel like running a business is so much like that
where you're just like very gradually building up this confidence, but there is
always new challenges, like all the time.
And it's just a matter of, do you enjoy those challenges that you're facing?
And, you know, unlike with parenting, with a business, you can decide no,
and then sell it and move on, you cannot sell your children and move on.
But I think there's, and I think doing both of those are the same time too.
Like I think really I mean, it is, it's just a lot at the same time,
but I feel like it, it kind of helps to give me that perspective on it.
Chris: Yeah, one thing I've really been wanting to ask you, because you've been
doing geocoding for eight years now, and you've said, it's basically like
you have no plans to sell the business.
It's the best job you've ever had, but you've also, you've also said like,
you guys started the business because you want to be able to pay for daycare.
So did you take steps along the way to intentional like build something
that you knew you would love doing, or did you just kind of fall into it?
I'm only two years in and that's like, something that I'm trying to figure
out is how to, like, there are things I love about the business, but there are
also some things about jet boosts that are not enjoyable, if that makes it.
Michele: Yeah.
I mean, I think as you go, you know, you're designing a business, right?
Like we don't think about it as a form of design, but it is all the decisions
we make are design decisions about the kind of business we want to be running.
Even things like, you know, do we, are we freemium or we call for a demo, right?
That has a huge impact on your business model, but also, you know, maybe on
your happiness as a solo founder, You know, if you love being on phone calls,
then that's a great design decision.
If you don't, then it's not.
And so, you know, along the way we have made decisions both a lot, like
align for what we needed, you know, like we needed it to be a low touch
SAS for a long time, because we could not work on it most of the day.
And so that informed a lot of our decisions around automating things and
making things very clear and transparent.
And like, we couldn't have call us for pricing because
we couldn't pick up the phone.
And that also turned out to be the kind of business that we like running
that we feel good about running.
I don't know.
I guess you know, we only do things if they align with what we believe in
and how we would want to be treated as customers ourselves, and, you know, I
have no great passion for the concept of latitude and longitude coordinates.
You know, they're, they're not stamps like nobody collects them for the fun of it.
But I love working with our customers.
I love what we are able to help our customers do and the amount of stress
we're able to take off their plates and complication we're able to take off their
plates of what they're trying to do.
And I just like nerd out on business in general.
And so I love like being a horizontal SAS for me is really, really fun
because I love getting to learn about.
All these types of businesses that had never even occurred to me that they
existed and they use our software.
It's just so cool to me.
And then I get to work with my husband who is like the best coworker I have ever had.
And that's what makes me want to keep working on it.
and, and do that for, you know, as long as we can.
Chris: that's awesome.
I also want to challenge you on not having great passion for longitude
and latitude coordinates because the other day you told me a fact the
only moving zip code in the U S so
Michele: It is a mail on Lake Michigan.
Yeah.
You know, you find moments of delight even in strings of numbers.
Yes.
Colleen: Well, I think that's going to wrap up this week's episode
of the software social podcast.
Chris, thank you so much for coming on today.
Chris: Yeah.
Thanks so much for having me.
Michele: Chris, if people want to check you out, check out jet
boost, listened to your podcasts.
Where should they go?
Chris: Yeah.
So you can find jet boost@jetboost.io.
I also do a podcast with Corey Haines.
It's called default alive.
I believe the, the URL is default alive.fm.
And you can find me on Twitter as C underscores Spags.
Michele: Awesome.
Well, thanks so much for coming on.
Chris: Yeah.
Thanks.