WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.130 Michele: Hey, welcome back to software social. 00:00:02.969 --> 00:00:05.760 This episode is brought to you by Translate CI. 00:00:06.570 --> 00:00:10.739 Translate CI is a tool for developers that helps you localize applications 00:00:10.980 --> 00:00:13.440 with high quality human translations. 00:00:13.830 --> 00:00:15.810 It supports over 70 languages. 00:00:16.356 --> 00:00:21.156 Translate CI eliminates the need to work out of spreadsheets, hire translators 00:00:21.456 --> 00:00:23.586 and manually merge language files. 00:00:23.826 --> 00:00:27.216 Instead with Translate CI, you can just use git. 00:00:27.636 --> 00:00:32.586 Just connect your git repo and Translate CI will pull out phrases and after 00:00:32.586 --> 00:00:36.546 a professional translator translates everything, they will merge into your 00:00:36.546 --> 00:00:38.676 existing code base with a poll request. 00:00:39.096 --> 00:00:45.071 And every time you push code to your git repository, Translate CI any new phrases 00:00:45.071 --> 00:00:48.641 out, translate them and create a PR back. 00:00:49.511 --> 00:00:55.141 See how you can turn translation from a hassle into a breeze at translateci.com. 00:00:55.641 --> 00:00:58.131 Colleen: Hi everyone, and welcome back to software social. 00:00:58.341 --> 00:01:01.281 Today, we are super excited to have a special guest, Chris 00:01:01.281 --> 00:01:02.991 Spags, the founder of Jet Boost. 00:01:03.141 --> 00:01:04.431 Chris, welcome to the show. 00:01:04.731 --> 00:01:05.451 Chris: Hey, Colleen. 00:01:05.571 --> 00:01:06.791 Thanks for having me on. 00:01:06.791 --> 00:01:09.992 You know, I feel like this is the major leagues of bootstrap 00:01:10.052 --> 00:01:12.752 podcasts, so I'm a little nervous. 00:01:13.056 --> 00:01:14.226 Michele: You're a pro at this though. 00:01:14.406 --> 00:01:15.366 You have your own show. 00:01:15.662 --> 00:01:16.352 Colleen: That's true. 00:01:16.382 --> 00:01:20.102 And we are super happy to talk about Jet Boost with you today. 00:01:20.462 --> 00:01:23.672 Do you want to start by telling us a little bit about how you started the 00:01:23.672 --> 00:01:25.472 company and how long you've had it? 00:01:25.769 --> 00:01:26.729 Chris: Yeah, definitely. 00:01:26.729 --> 00:01:33.332 So I started jet boost in 2019, uh, and it kind of came about by accident. 00:01:33.722 --> 00:01:37.469 Uh, So Friend of mine, Cory Haines, who you've actually had on the 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:40.319 show before, he was the first person to introduce me to Webflow. 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:43.839 He created a job board using webflow, which Webflow for anyone that doesn't 00:01:43.839 --> 00:01:45.939 know is like a visual website builder. 00:01:45.939 --> 00:01:48.969 And he built this job board, and it was super impressive. 00:01:49.075 --> 00:01:52.035 And there was one issue with it, which was, there was no way to 00:01:52.035 --> 00:01:53.415 quickly search through the jobs. 00:01:53.415 --> 00:01:55.718 You had to scroll through this long list of jobs. 00:01:56.015 --> 00:01:57.645 So I wrote some custom code for him. 00:01:57.645 --> 00:02:00.157 He put it on his website, and I didn't really think much about it. 00:02:00.177 --> 00:02:01.827 Just like, you know, just helping a friend. 00:02:02.127 --> 00:02:04.137 But over the next few months he kept sending more and more 00:02:04.137 --> 00:02:07.257 people to me who wanted the same thing for their webflow sites. 00:02:07.557 --> 00:02:08.847 So I thought, Hmm, this is interesting. 00:02:08.847 --> 00:02:12.003 I did a few of those you know for free as well, but I thought maybe I 00:02:12.003 --> 00:02:15.323 could turn this into something that anyone can install on their webflow 00:02:15.323 --> 00:02:18.690 site, because most people who use Webflow don't know how to write code. 00:02:18.990 --> 00:02:21.005 So I thought, you know, I, I could help out in that way. 00:02:21.305 --> 00:02:22.655 Eventually that turned into jet boost. 00:02:22.785 --> 00:02:26.165 I built this product where it allowed anyone to add a 00:02:26.165 --> 00:02:27.745 search to their webflow site. 00:02:27.766 --> 00:02:31.996 From there we expanded and built other plugins for webflow, as well. 00:02:32.055 --> 00:02:35.464 Filtering, favoriting, all sorts of different plugins for 00:02:35.464 --> 00:02:37.144 the webflow CMS, specifically. 00:02:37.179 --> 00:02:41.129 All of those, which you add without writing any custom code yourself. 00:02:41.426 --> 00:02:45.970 And really just grew from there via word of mouth and yeah, been doing that 00:02:45.970 --> 00:02:48.340 for just over two years now, today. 00:02:48.642 --> 00:02:50.022 Michele: What was it in 20? 00:02:50.022 --> 00:02:53.232 So it was 2019 that you first started doing this. 00:02:53.535 --> 00:02:59.109 Was it 2020 that you joined the calm fund portfolio? 00:02:59.455 --> 00:02:59.755 Chris: Yep. 00:02:59.785 --> 00:03:00.385 That's correct. 00:03:00.385 --> 00:03:04.334 So in 2019, I started it basically as a side project where 00:03:04.334 --> 00:03:05.684 I was consulting on the side. 00:03:05.699 --> 00:03:11.054 Then I went, full-time on jet boost in oddly enough, March of 2020. 00:03:11.054 --> 00:03:19.547 Um, Yeah, which was, I gave my my last client four weeks notice in February. 00:03:20.287 --> 00:03:26.447 And then my last day with them was a week before the pandemic really hit in the U S 00:03:26.547 --> 00:03:27.207 . Michele: Gosh. 00:03:27.467 --> 00:03:28.127 Chris: and I was like, all right. 00:03:28.238 --> 00:03:29.154 I hope this works out. 00:03:29.221 --> 00:03:33.776 But yeah, then in may of 2020 is when I took the investment from calm fund. 00:03:33.776 --> 00:03:36.188 So all that timing did end up working out, eventually. 00:03:36.486 --> 00:03:39.100 Michele: And then I think that was how, I don't know if I met you 00:03:39.100 --> 00:03:41.800 on Twitter or through calm fund. 00:03:41.830 --> 00:03:42.340 I don't remember. 00:03:42.640 --> 00:03:44.630 Chris: Yeah, it was actually, it was through calm fund. 00:03:44.650 --> 00:03:49.412 So had reached out to them because I had a question that there was 00:03:49.412 --> 00:03:51.302 something that I was dealing with, which I can't even remember now. 00:03:51.302 --> 00:03:53.222 And they're like, oh, you have to talk to Michelle. 00:03:53.972 --> 00:03:57.482 And I was like, okay, like we, we had no connection prior to that. 00:03:57.572 --> 00:04:01.542 Um, So, I sent you an email and you sent me back, this just amazing 00:04:01.542 --> 00:04:05.622 response, you know, super detailed and just incredible advice. 00:04:05.622 --> 00:04:08.706 And I was like, oh my gosh, like, this is first of all, thank God I took the 00:04:08.706 --> 00:04:12.516 calm fund money because you know, prior to this, I was a first time founder. 00:04:12.516 --> 00:04:14.136 I was a solo founder. 00:04:14.166 --> 00:04:19.149 So I kind of felt like uh, part, part of the reason I took the investment was to 00:04:19.149 --> 00:04:21.119 you know, have access to their network. 00:04:21.415 --> 00:04:25.882 And it basically like immediately paid off just from meeting you. 00:04:25.949 --> 00:04:27.569 So yeah, that, that's how we originally met. 00:04:27.569 --> 00:04:30.944 And then I started sending you my monthly investor update because I 00:04:30.944 --> 00:04:34.574 was like, oh my gosh, here's this business guru, that is a genius. 00:04:34.574 --> 00:04:37.264 That is so helpful that I need to have on my side. 00:04:37.264 --> 00:04:38.142 So yeah. 00:04:39.365 --> 00:04:42.325 Michele: I'm struggling to hold it together over here, you're kind. 00:04:42.625 --> 00:04:47.550 Oh, and then this crazy thing happened where colleen, up and moved to California 00:04:47.550 --> 00:04:51.480 last year, you know, as we discussed Colleen last year became a cool kid, 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:53.130 moved to California, joined a startup. 00:04:53.252 --> 00:04:58.052 But she moved to San Diego, which is where you live. 00:04:58.052 --> 00:05:02.102 And so then it like turned out that, I guess you guys met each other 00:05:02.102 --> 00:05:04.872 through like the indie hackers, meetup or something in San Diego. 00:05:04.872 --> 00:05:05.562 Is that right? 00:05:05.866 --> 00:05:11.029 Chris: I think I started listening to your podcast because I knew Michelle and then 00:05:11.029 --> 00:05:15.499 that's sort of how I met Colleen, you know, at least a one way communication. 00:05:15.573 --> 00:05:19.833 But eventually we started chatting about no-code stuff and her 00:05:19.861 --> 00:05:21.091 product simple file upload. 00:05:21.971 --> 00:05:24.401 Then one day, she was like, yeah, I'm moving to San Diego with my family. 00:05:24.401 --> 00:05:26.501 I was like, oh, that's awesome. 00:05:27.911 --> 00:05:30.101 And now we meet up like once a week and talk business. 00:05:30.101 --> 00:05:32.441 So it's a, yeah, it's worked out well. 00:05:32.744 --> 00:05:34.114 Michele: It's funny how those things develop. 00:05:34.414 --> 00:05:34.744 Colleen: I know. 00:05:34.744 --> 00:05:35.014 Yeah. 00:05:35.044 --> 00:05:37.354 I think we were internet friends first. 00:05:37.984 --> 00:05:39.604 Cause I was like, Hey, you want to have lunch? 00:05:39.634 --> 00:05:40.354 And you were like, sure. 00:05:40.384 --> 00:05:42.454 And then I was like, great, what to have lunch every week. 00:05:42.604 --> 00:05:43.499 And you're like I guess so. 00:05:45.009 --> 00:05:46.674 Michele: Colleen, you're like a Labrador puppy. 00:05:46.979 --> 00:05:47.669 Colleen: I know, I know. 00:05:48.149 --> 00:05:49.319 Just hang out with me. 00:05:49.499 --> 00:05:50.219 That's all I need. 00:05:51.277 --> 00:05:53.437 Michele: I think this is the first time we've actually, all three of 00:05:53.437 --> 00:05:58.057 us had a conversation, but we have talked about each other conversations. 00:05:58.057 --> 00:06:00.227 And like, there was one time when like Colleen and I were talking 00:06:00.287 --> 00:06:03.050 about something a couple of months ago, and she was saying how she 00:06:03.050 --> 00:06:04.280 was like working through something. 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:07.175 And she was like, well, I was talking to you know, my friend Chris about it. 00:06:07.175 --> 00:06:08.795 And I was like, your friend, Chris, hold on. 00:06:09.830 --> 00:06:09.980 Colleen: I 00:06:10.085 --> 00:06:11.135 Michele: I knew him first. 00:06:12.049 --> 00:06:12.893 Chris: That's super funny. 00:06:13.908 --> 00:06:17.998 Colleen: So when you started jet boost, what were your consulting hours like? 00:06:17.998 --> 00:06:21.028 Were you consulting full-time and this was completely a side project? 00:06:21.028 --> 00:06:22.678 Or did you consult three days a week? 00:06:23.218 --> 00:06:24.118 Four days a week? 00:06:24.413 --> 00:06:29.138 Chris: Yeah, so I was technically consulting 20 hours a week, which 00:06:29.437 --> 00:06:33.367 was kind of a terrible setup because it wasn't like I had specific days. 00:06:33.397 --> 00:06:37.322 It was just, I was supposed to be doing 20 hours a week, but it ended 00:06:37.322 --> 00:06:41.792 up being a lot more because it's like hard to say, you know, sorry, client 00:06:41.792 --> 00:06:43.622 I've already worked my four hour stay. 00:06:43.622 --> 00:06:46.412 I'm not gonna, you know, answer your calls or respond to your emails. 00:06:46.435 --> 00:06:51.322 So, if I was to set up something like that, again, I would do it specifically, 00:06:51.322 --> 00:06:54.232 like you said, days of the week where, you know, I'm working for this client 00:06:54.232 --> 00:06:58.142 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and the expectation is set that I don't work. 00:06:58.172 --> 00:06:58.982 Thursday, Friday. 00:06:59.037 --> 00:07:00.777 Colleen: work is what I have found. 00:07:01.077 --> 00:07:02.907 I have tried to set that expectation. 00:07:02.907 --> 00:07:03.267 It's still 00:07:03.497 --> 00:07:04.127 Chris: It's hard. 00:07:04.577 --> 00:07:08.957 Colleen: So you started in 2019, so it's only been two and a half years, right. 00:07:10.337 --> 00:07:13.427 And in those two and a half years, you also got married and had a baby? 00:07:13.730 --> 00:07:14.360 Chris: Yes. 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:15.690 Colleen: Okay. 00:07:15.990 --> 00:07:19.560 Chris: 2020 was kind of a crazy year for me personally, besides the pandemic. 00:07:20.276 --> 00:07:25.023 Yeah, it's been really interesting starting the business while I was you 00:07:25.023 --> 00:07:30.115 know, essentially single and just, I had nothing else to do, but work 00:07:30.125 --> 00:07:32.155 for my client and do side projects. 00:07:32.155 --> 00:07:36.718 And you know, that was the, some of my responsibilities to fast-forward to today. 00:07:36.718 --> 00:07:41.154 And you know, having a wife in a one-year-old, and maybe should 00:07:41.154 --> 00:07:42.204 have another baby on the way. 00:07:42.204 --> 00:07:47.335 So, I feel like I've seen the full spectrum of you know, possibilities 00:07:47.335 --> 00:07:52.249 of, yeah, just like trying to run the business in having my 00:07:52.249 --> 00:07:53.689 personal life changed so much. 00:07:53.989 --> 00:07:57.997 And honestly, I don't think, I don't know that I could start jet boots today. 00:07:58.295 --> 00:08:01.025 Like Michelle, I don't know how, because you started geocoding 00:08:01.715 --> 00:08:02.945 after your daughter was born. 00:08:02.945 --> 00:08:03.245 Right? 00:08:03.295 --> 00:08:03.755 Like, to me, 00:08:03.770 --> 00:08:04.070 Michele: Yeah. 00:08:04.070 --> 00:08:06.800 She was four months old when we launched it, 00:08:07.101 --> 00:08:08.961 Chris: That's so that's so crazy. 00:08:09.262 --> 00:08:10.522 Michele: I think for us, like it was. 00:08:11.317 --> 00:08:16.047 You know, like when you have a baby, you have maybe an hour to yourself every day. 00:08:16.377 --> 00:08:20.127 And for me that was really helpful because it meant, it was like, okay, if I want 00:08:20.127 --> 00:08:24.877 to work on our side projects today like I would think about it the whole day. 00:08:24.877 --> 00:08:29.377 Like I would sit down to work at night when she was in bed, and it was go-time. 00:08:29.377 --> 00:08:32.917 We would just blast through stuff at night and probably stayed up a little 00:08:32.917 --> 00:08:35.377 bit later than we should have, but also we were going to get woken up anyway. 00:08:35.377 --> 00:08:37.657 So it's like what you might as well work until midnight. 00:08:37.657 --> 00:08:39.667 If you're going to get woken up at midnight and then just go to bed 00:08:40.237 --> 00:08:43.687 or not, like, I don't know if I would recommend this path to anyone. 00:08:44.257 --> 00:08:44.947 It's what we did. 00:08:45.067 --> 00:08:46.087 I don't like, yeah. 00:08:46.117 --> 00:08:50.827 I look back now and I'm like, I maybe should've done things differently, but 00:08:50.862 --> 00:08:55.398 for me it was actually like motivating because before we had her, I dunno, it was 00:08:55.398 --> 00:09:00.811 just easy to spend our weekends just like, you know bingeing TV or whatever, and we 00:09:00.811 --> 00:09:06.035 wanted to start stuff, but like, it just never felt like it had to be done then. 00:09:06.065 --> 00:09:09.013 And, so then, you know, having a kid on the way. 00:09:09.513 --> 00:09:12.903 You know, knowing that daycare was going to be expensive, but then learning 00:09:12.903 --> 00:09:18.393 that it was going to be $25,000 a year was like a holy, like forking , okay, 00:09:18.393 --> 00:09:19.473 we got to start launching stuff. 00:09:19.473 --> 00:09:20.213 Like we gotta go. 00:09:20.213 --> 00:09:24.997 We can't, you know, I was like, we could maybe make that much money, you know, 00:09:25.027 --> 00:09:28.837 bonuses and raises, but in the next six months, no, like we got to do something. 00:09:28.905 --> 00:09:30.795 And so, but, but it's hard. 00:09:30.795 --> 00:09:32.595 Like it's, I mean, it's hard on your body too. 00:09:32.595 --> 00:09:36.175 Like, I think for you, I mean, you've gone through so much 00:09:36.205 --> 00:09:39.625 change and stress in the past. 00:09:40.025 --> 00:09:42.215 It is really stressful to launch a company. 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:46.320 I mean, getting married and having kids are like wonderful, but they also, 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.470 like, they can be happy stress in a way. 00:09:48.470 --> 00:09:50.150 I mean, like planning a wedding is not easy. 00:09:50.150 --> 00:09:54.200 Like, you know, all those things are like complicated and doing that in a pandemic. 00:09:54.280 --> 00:09:57.460 I mean, I would completely understand if you're just exhausted. 00:09:58.459 --> 00:10:01.550 Chris: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about it because I have been going 00:10:01.550 --> 00:10:06.350 through a phase where I have felt just very low energy going into this year. 00:10:06.435 --> 00:10:09.570 And all throughout the past two and a half years, like, I'm sure you guys would, 00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:11.725 feel the same about your businesses. 00:10:11.755 --> 00:10:15.625 The highs have been extremely high and the lows have been extremely low. 00:10:15.701 --> 00:10:19.161 For me, it's been very different because this is the first business 00:10:19.361 --> 00:10:22.257 that I've started and run, it's very different from having a 00:10:22.257 --> 00:10:24.057 full-time job or from having clients. 00:10:24.517 --> 00:10:27.717 The stress that the business combined with stress a personal life can 00:10:27.717 --> 00:10:29.547 be very hard to deal with that. 00:10:29.933 --> 00:10:30.172 Michele: Yeah. 00:10:31.022 --> 00:10:31.472 Chris: Yeah. 00:10:31.982 --> 00:10:35.306 One of the things that has really helped is just having a network 00:10:35.306 --> 00:10:38.246 of people and other founders that can relate like you guys. 00:10:38.296 --> 00:10:42.436 I'm someone that really struggles to ask for help. 00:10:43.346 --> 00:10:47.466 And I always like wait way too long until things have gotten way too bad, whether 00:10:47.466 --> 00:10:51.531 it's dealing with my own stress or you know, having a problem in the business 00:10:51.531 --> 00:10:53.391 or a technical challenge or whatever. 00:10:53.391 --> 00:10:56.631 It's like, I have the mindset where, okay, I need to figure this out. 00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:58.209 You know, I need to solve this problem. 00:10:58.209 --> 00:11:03.679 And I always admire people are quick to ask for help because it's something 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:04.780 that I struggled with so much. 00:11:04.797 --> 00:11:08.187 Because I just think it's such a shortcut to solving problems, 00:11:08.187 --> 00:11:09.447 and people are so generous. 00:11:09.537 --> 00:11:12.894 Like both of you are so generous with your time, with your advice. 00:11:12.939 --> 00:11:17.420 And you know, I think founders, especially because everyone's been there during 00:11:17.420 --> 00:11:20.760 the low points, it's like, you want to help other people get through that. 00:11:20.790 --> 00:11:22.120 So I think that's really cool. 00:11:22.430 --> 00:11:23.990 Michele: You know, hearing that. 00:11:23.990 --> 00:11:27.910 I have to wonder, you know, you have a business, you have a spouse, you 00:11:27.910 --> 00:11:32.514 have a child, like in that priority lists, do you feel like you come last. 00:11:33.014 --> 00:11:34.874 Chris: That's a good question. 00:11:34.874 --> 00:11:37.274 And I would say probably, yeah. 00:11:37.574 --> 00:11:39.674 Michele: Like prioritizing taking care of yourself. 00:11:39.704 --> 00:11:42.784 And, you're talking about you know, handling your stress, for example, 00:11:43.234 --> 00:11:44.974 putting that off for a long time. 00:11:45.024 --> 00:11:45.234 Chris: Yeah. 00:11:45.234 --> 00:11:48.694 One of the things that has been interesting to me is just like 00:11:48.694 --> 00:11:52.364 talking about the priorities, I have realized in everyone's 00:11:52.364 --> 00:11:53.954 different, but for me, I've realized. 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:57.499 My family definitely comes before the business. 00:11:57.509 --> 00:12:01.919 I'm not going to work 12 hour days anymore and not see my son. 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:07.397 And if that means that the business isn't able to, if it negatively 00:12:07.397 --> 00:12:10.337 affects the business in some way, I'm willing to make that sacrifice. 00:12:10.381 --> 00:12:12.859 But you're right that on the priority list, I probably 00:12:12.859 --> 00:12:16.429 still put myself last, so yeah. 00:12:16.731 --> 00:12:20.191 Michele: And I mean, I found the hard way that that kind of catches up with you 00:12:20.212 --> 00:12:25.610 and has its way of making itself known when that, when that's gotten too far. 00:12:25.658 --> 00:12:29.168 And I also say that as someone who has been like intending to start 00:12:29.168 --> 00:12:33.128 doing yoga, to help with my stress, and then just every day, I just think 00:12:33.128 --> 00:12:34.718 about how I should start doing yoga. 00:12:35.558 --> 00:12:38.588 Buy a book about doing yoga rather than actually doing it. 00:12:38.588 --> 00:12:42.218 I sound like Colleen, as of two years ago, who would read books 00:12:42.218 --> 00:12:45.218 about starting a business and not actually start the business? 00:12:45.244 --> 00:12:45.438 Chris: Yeah. 00:12:45.438 --> 00:12:46.308 Why do we do that? 00:12:46.308 --> 00:12:49.601 Like, it's so easy to want to just go, like you said, like 00:12:49.601 --> 00:12:50.621 read a book about something. 00:12:50.651 --> 00:12:52.571 I did that for probably 10 years. 00:12:52.571 --> 00:12:56.321 Like I read so many books about starting businesses and read Paul 00:12:56.321 --> 00:13:01.344 Graham's blog and you know, all the things and it wasn't until I started 00:13:01.344 --> 00:13:04.254 a business where I was like, oh, now I'm actually learning how to do it. 00:13:04.324 --> 00:13:07.624 I learned more in the last two and a half years about running a business 00:13:07.624 --> 00:13:09.304 than I did in the previous 15. 00:13:09.371 --> 00:13:11.724 But still, like you said, we just like gravitate towards, I'm 00:13:11.724 --> 00:13:14.154 going to read a book about yoga instead of putting it in practice. 00:13:14.901 --> 00:13:16.671 Michele: Colleen you looked like you were relating pretty high. 00:13:17.121 --> 00:13:17.751 Colleen: Oh, yeah. 00:13:17.781 --> 00:13:21.201 We talk about atomic habits all the time, but it's the motion verse action 00:13:21.201 --> 00:13:26.661 thing that James clear talks about where you're in motion by reading a book about 00:13:26.661 --> 00:13:28.161 starting a business or starting yoga. 00:13:28.161 --> 00:13:30.411 So you feel like you're making progress, but you don't actually 00:13:30.411 --> 00:13:31.431 have to do anything hard. 00:13:31.431 --> 00:13:33.711 Whereas action, especially being. 00:13:33.871 --> 00:13:38.161 I can't speak for Chris, but I assume Michelle was an excellent student, so 00:13:38.161 --> 00:13:43.771 being a perfectionist makes it hard to do something because you're so scared. 00:13:43.821 --> 00:13:48.381 In my opinion, it's not even a fear of failure, it's a fear of embarrassment 00:13:48.381 --> 00:13:50.451 or it's a fear of not being perfect. 00:13:50.991 --> 00:13:54.251 And so motion makes you feel like you're making progress and 00:13:54.251 --> 00:13:55.661 it's so easy just to do that. 00:13:56.111 --> 00:14:00.071 Whereas, action, actually doing the thing to your point, Chris, you learn so 00:14:00.071 --> 00:14:03.371 much faster, but it's such higher risk. 00:14:03.371 --> 00:14:03.881 Chris: Yeah. 00:14:03.881 --> 00:14:06.491 Colleen: So let's talk a little more about Jet boost. 00:14:06.491 --> 00:14:09.971 I mean, it seems like you're kind of living the indie hacker dream. 00:14:10.171 --> 00:14:10.771 I mean, right. 00:14:10.771 --> 00:14:13.981 You've had great success in two and a half years. 00:14:14.341 --> 00:14:16.501 A lot of people toil away for two and a half. 00:14:16.591 --> 00:14:18.121 Oh side note. 00:14:18.391 --> 00:14:21.961 Did anyone see Nathan Barry's Twitter thread yesterday on 00:14:21.961 --> 00:14:23.341 all of his failed companies? 00:14:23.681 --> 00:14:24.101 Chris: No. 00:14:24.101 --> 00:14:24.431 I missed 00:14:24.431 --> 00:14:24.701 that. 00:14:24.751 --> 00:14:26.131 Colleen: so good guys. 00:14:26.131 --> 00:14:27.241 It made me so happy. 00:14:27.511 --> 00:14:29.581 And one of the it's like 10 tweets. 00:14:29.961 --> 00:14:32.926 Michele: I'm his failures did not make you happy, but 00:14:32.926 --> 00:14:33.346 like it. 00:14:33.401 --> 00:14:34.241 Colleen: it totally did. 00:14:34.241 --> 00:14:34.661 Michelle. 00:14:34.661 --> 00:14:36.581 His failures made me so happy. 00:14:36.834 --> 00:14:39.114 Okay guys, it's epic. 00:14:39.144 --> 00:14:40.764 But uh, what about convert kit? 00:14:40.794 --> 00:14:41.334 Which does what? 00:14:41.334 --> 00:14:42.744 A hundred million dollars a year? 00:14:42.744 --> 00:14:47.004 They didn't hit two K MRR till after their second year. 00:14:48.394 --> 00:14:48.574 Chris: so 00:14:48.924 --> 00:14:49.374 Colleen: Right. 00:14:49.684 --> 00:14:51.454 Okay, so you have to look it up after the podcast. 00:14:51.454 --> 00:14:52.894 I know that made me really, 00:14:53.705 --> 00:14:55.489 but anyway, back to Chris. 00:14:55.789 --> 00:15:00.769 So Chris hit two K MRR significantly before his second year. 00:15:00.769 --> 00:15:02.689 So jet boost has grown pretty quickly. 00:15:03.019 --> 00:15:04.909 It seems like it's been pretty successful. 00:15:04.909 --> 00:15:05.959 Do you work four hours a day? 00:15:05.959 --> 00:15:06.799 Are you living the dream? 00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:08.329 Do you spend every Friday at the beach? 00:15:08.359 --> 00:15:09.049 Tell us. 00:15:09.354 --> 00:15:09.534 Chris: Yeah. 00:15:09.564 --> 00:15:12.944 First of all, let me say Jet Boost is not doing a hundred million a year, so 00:15:13.479 --> 00:15:14.499 Colleen: well, hurry up, buddy. 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:15.399 No, I'm just kidding. 00:15:16.034 --> 00:15:19.724 Chris: yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot, because a lot of time I 00:15:19.724 --> 00:15:23.174 feel like I'm not happy with where Jet Boost is, does that currently. 00:15:23.174 --> 00:15:28.114 And I have to go back and think, okay, like, it did grow quite fast, you 00:15:28.114 --> 00:15:29.764 know, for for an indie hacker business. 00:15:29.832 --> 00:15:34.122 I was able to go full time on it pretty quickly after six months. 00:15:34.332 --> 00:15:37.722 On one hand, like, I feel like I should be, like you said, working four hours 00:15:37.732 --> 00:15:41.572 day, hanging out at the beach, but I'm not, I'm sure a lot of people can relate. 00:15:41.572 --> 00:15:43.582 Like I'm not wired like that. 00:15:43.582 --> 00:15:47.531 Like I want to keep pushing the business forward and keep growing it. 00:15:47.561 --> 00:15:50.381 And I think that's something I'm struggling with right now is, and 00:15:50.381 --> 00:15:52.841 I feel like I've heard you say this, Michelle, that maybe I'm 00:15:52.841 --> 00:15:53.921 putting words in your mouth, but. 00:15:54.226 --> 00:15:58.726 That growth isn't necessarily like a primary goal for geocoding. 00:15:59.029 --> 00:16:02.219 And, obviously, you have to grow your business to a certain point to be 00:16:02.219 --> 00:16:06.009 sustainable, and I've been struggling with like, okay, what's next? 00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:08.169 Like right now I'm just aiming for growth for the sake of 00:16:08.169 --> 00:16:09.969 growth, but I don't know why. 00:16:09.999 --> 00:16:11.854 And I think that's causing some. 00:16:13.144 --> 00:16:13.294 Michele: Hm. 00:16:13.537 --> 00:16:15.527 Yeah, we don't aim for growth. 00:16:15.576 --> 00:16:21.729 Our goal every year is to just stay the same and then we accidentally grow. 00:16:21.792 --> 00:16:21.882 Chris: Okay. 00:16:22.178 --> 00:16:26.015 Michele: and, you know, now we're at the point where like, you know, both of us are 00:16:26.045 --> 00:16:28.525 full-time and, you know, comfortably so. 00:16:28.585 --> 00:16:31.405 We also, I mean, talking about going full-time you went full-time after six 00:16:31.405 --> 00:16:36.085 months, I went full-time after four and a half, three and a half years, 00:16:36.085 --> 00:16:38.660 like it was four and a half years before both of us were full-time. 00:16:38.694 --> 00:16:42.414 But, you know, we waited until it can really, really support us. 00:16:42.414 --> 00:16:43.824 And then at that point where it was. 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.899 Pretty much for the last couple of years, we've been like, okay, this is great. 00:16:46.899 --> 00:16:49.689 Like, let's just keep it at, like, if we keep it at this 00:16:49.689 --> 00:16:50.709 level, that would be great. 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:55.621 And then, and then we grow kind of without intending to, which I think is one of the 00:16:55.901 --> 00:16:58.492 luxuries of being an independent company. 00:16:58.557 --> 00:17:02.727 Chris: Was, was there like a shift at some point for you guys? 00:17:03.447 --> 00:17:04.377 Or was that sort 00:17:04.377 --> 00:17:05.577 of always the intention? 00:17:06.077 --> 00:17:10.989 Michele: I guess the only time we really actively try like, so we were 00:17:10.989 --> 00:17:14.199 doing a lot of things to grow and tell people about the product, right? 00:17:14.249 --> 00:17:16.799 You know, whenever people had questions related to stuff we did on stack 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:20.269 overflow, like replying to that or on hacker news or you know, being present. 00:17:20.269 --> 00:17:20.509 Right. 00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:25.119 But, in terms of having an actual, growth goal, the only time we really did was 00:17:25.149 --> 00:17:29.474 when we were first talking about Mathias going full-time and we actually did a 00:17:29.474 --> 00:17:35.421 poll cash forward and introduced annual plans for the first time to try to like, 00:17:35.421 --> 00:17:39.187 build up like a little cash reserve, but that was the only time when I was really 00:17:39.187 --> 00:17:43.254 kind of like focused on numbers and trying to, like, you know like increase 00:17:43.254 --> 00:17:45.494 our cashflow, the rest of the time. 00:17:45.994 --> 00:17:50.164 We really haven't of course we, like, I think there's a difference between not 00:17:50.164 --> 00:17:54.754 caring about growth and then, but like still doing marketing, still, you know, 00:17:54.754 --> 00:17:57.604 doing sales, all that kind of stuff, and then not caring about growth, and 00:17:57.604 --> 00:18:01.271 then to what Colleen said, you know, doing maintenance work and then sitting 00:18:01.271 --> 00:18:02.321 on the beach for the rest of the day. 00:18:02.531 --> 00:18:04.421 Like those are two very different things. 00:18:04.421 --> 00:18:07.601 We're definitely in that first category where we're doing marketing, we're 00:18:07.601 --> 00:18:12.661 doing sales, we're doing things to improve all the time, but we, do it 00:18:12.661 --> 00:18:17.911 because we like what we do and we like our customers and we like what we work 00:18:17.911 --> 00:18:19.951 on and we want to maintain that level. 00:18:19.951 --> 00:18:23.641 And we know that if the product stays stagnant and how we talk about the product 00:18:23.641 --> 00:18:27.691 stays stagnant, that we won't be able to keep our revenue at the current level. 00:18:27.777 --> 00:18:27.927 Chris: Mm. 00:18:28.522 --> 00:18:30.792 Michele: and so we're, we're kind of very conscious of not stressing 00:18:30.792 --> 00:18:33.942 ourselves out about growth, but also not resting on our laurels either. 00:18:33.942 --> 00:18:36.324 But actually, can we just go back to that whole thing Colleen was talking 00:18:36.374 --> 00:18:39.194 about, like, so I will admit I never read four hour work week because the 00:18:39.194 --> 00:18:40.784 concept just seemed ridiculous to me. 00:18:41.088 --> 00:18:43.188 Um, And also I just enjoy what I do. 00:18:43.188 --> 00:18:47.653 I know a lot of people love that book and, you know but like this idea that like the 00:18:47.653 --> 00:18:51.613 dream and the goal is working, I don't know, I guess an hour a day, and then 00:18:51.613 --> 00:18:53.113 spending the rest of the day on the beach. 00:18:53.699 --> 00:18:58.019 I'm sure, there's like a handful of people who actually do that, but like, come on. 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:01.733 Aren't we, like, I don't know, setting ourselves up for disappointment as a 00:19:01.733 --> 00:19:05.933 community, if that's the goal, like, isn't that just, I just feel like if you're 00:19:05.933 --> 00:19:10.393 holding that up as the goal and this idea that people with successful companies are 00:19:10.393 --> 00:19:14.833 doing that, isn't that doing a disservice to like founders who are still coming up. 00:19:14.863 --> 00:19:17.353 That that's what they should be aiming for. 00:19:17.353 --> 00:19:18.913 And that's projecting that. 00:19:18.913 --> 00:19:21.513 That's what everybody has, because I still sit at a computer 00:19:21.513 --> 00:19:23.073 six to eight hours a day. 00:19:23.073 --> 00:19:24.766 Like I don't, I don't sorry. 00:19:24.766 --> 00:19:24.946 I'm 00:19:25.136 --> 00:19:25.376 Colleen: No. 00:19:25.376 --> 00:19:26.246 I totally agree. 00:19:26.246 --> 00:19:29.396 Cause I, I always ask people that that's my favorite question, 00:19:29.396 --> 00:19:30.716 like, okay, you've made it. 00:19:30.926 --> 00:19:32.546 What is your life look like now? 00:19:33.896 --> 00:19:37.766 Is not stressed out and no one only works four hours a day. 00:19:37.816 --> 00:19:40.786 I have not found that magical person who actually does that. 00:19:41.083 --> 00:19:42.583 So yeah, you're right. 00:19:42.613 --> 00:19:43.603 That's not a real thing. 00:19:43.633 --> 00:19:46.273 I haven't actually read four hour workweek either. 00:19:46.273 --> 00:19:50.066 It's just the concept, but there is this ideal that you would get to this 00:19:50.066 --> 00:19:54.956 point of safety and security and comfort that allowed you to just do what you 00:19:54.956 --> 00:19:59.351 wanted on your for four hours a day and take the rest of the day to do 00:19:59.351 --> 00:20:01.241 whatever, but I have not met that person. 00:20:01.241 --> 00:20:05.921 And we've had people on, you know, from all levels of, you know, small MRR to 6 00:20:05.921 --> 00:20:08.411 million MRR and no one just hangs out. 00:20:08.951 --> 00:20:10.121 So you're right. 00:20:10.121 --> 00:20:10.691 It's a lie. 00:20:10.811 --> 00:20:12.221 I'll call Tim Ferris and let him know. 00:20:13.426 --> 00:20:15.196 Michele: I mean, I think that like the whole book, I mean, it's like 00:20:15.196 --> 00:20:19.191 premised on you, stuff and you automate it and then you hire a VA 00:20:19.191 --> 00:20:20.412 to do the rest of it or something. 00:20:20.418 --> 00:20:24.192 But, like, I think what you were saying Chris, like that goal of 00:20:24.282 --> 00:20:28.242 having your family be first, like that alone feels like a goal. 00:20:28.242 --> 00:20:32.502 And like maybe there are points when you need to grow the revenue 00:20:32.502 --> 00:20:35.262 so that you, you know, you took on a support person last year, for 00:20:35.262 --> 00:20:39.003 example, like because that burden was getting pretty high on you found an 00:20:39.003 --> 00:20:40.723 amazing person in your customer base. 00:20:40.761 --> 00:20:44.451 But like that feels like the goal of being able to, you know, check in 00:20:44.451 --> 00:20:49.191 and check out and be with your family when you want to be like that feels 00:20:49.191 --> 00:20:53.001 like the indie hacker dream to me and being able to choose to live in 00:20:53.001 --> 00:20:57.561 the middle of nowhere, like me and, you know, not have to live somewhere 00:20:57.561 --> 00:21:00.261 where there are tech jobs, right? 00:21:00.341 --> 00:21:01.841 Like that feels like the goal. 00:21:01.841 --> 00:21:04.481 And, you know, maybe for, you know, some people it's like you work three 00:21:04.481 --> 00:21:07.661 hours in the morning and then, like, you know, our friend, like Marie pool, 00:21:07.661 --> 00:21:10.421 and like, she'll go gardening in the middle of the day for a couple of hours. 00:21:10.421 --> 00:21:12.491 And then like work late at night. 00:21:12.611 --> 00:21:16.121 Probably still doing at least six to eight, if not more hours of work on 00:21:16.121 --> 00:21:19.271 a given day, but getting to structure your life, however you want it. 00:21:19.271 --> 00:21:22.334 But not necessarily this, like, I don't know, work for an hour a day 00:21:22.334 --> 00:21:23.504 and sit on the beach, the rest of it. 00:21:23.807 --> 00:21:24.707 Maybe people want that. 00:21:25.396 --> 00:21:26.926 Colleen: I still think that's kind of a lie. 00:21:26.986 --> 00:21:30.153 Having talked to so many founders now through events we've done in 00:21:30.153 --> 00:21:33.363 this podcast, people are always thinking about their business. 00:21:33.660 --> 00:21:37.625 I know very few people who successfully maybe zero people 00:21:38.075 --> 00:21:43.235 who have their own business and at 5:00 PM can actually turn it off. 00:21:43.538 --> 00:21:46.458 Michele: Yeah, I don't think I know anyone who just turns it off at 500. 00:21:46.757 --> 00:21:50.357 Chris: yeah, because I think that's why, like a lot of us start businesses is 00:21:50.357 --> 00:21:54.467 you're trying to solve a problem, either a problem that you have or someone, you 00:21:54.467 --> 00:21:58.127 know, has, and there's a good chance you become passionate about that problem. 00:21:58.127 --> 00:21:59.827 And it is hard to turn that off. 00:21:59.827 --> 00:22:03.697 Like it's hard to not respond to customers that have questions. 00:22:03.697 --> 00:22:09.324 It's hard to not want to, you know noodle on the latest feature you're thinking 00:22:09.324 --> 00:22:14.243 about shipping or you know, the latest marketing campaign or whatever it is. 00:22:14.243 --> 00:22:15.773 There's a reason you started the business. 00:22:15.803 --> 00:22:20.433 And I think that's why most people are, you know, pretty much, no one ends 00:22:20.433 --> 00:22:24.113 up working just two hours a day and hanging out with the rest of the time. 00:22:24.421 --> 00:22:26.821 Michele: I mean in talking about being a parent, like I think 00:22:26.821 --> 00:22:29.211 back to those early years for us. 00:22:29.271 --> 00:22:34.231 And like, I I have, I don't know if regrets is the right word, but like, I 00:22:34.231 --> 00:22:37.351 feel like, yeah, I was definitely thinking about the business, especially when I 00:22:37.351 --> 00:22:40.081 wasn't at work, because you know, when I was at work, I was thinking about work. 00:22:40.081 --> 00:22:42.111 And then when I was home, that was my free time. 00:22:42.181 --> 00:22:44.791 I mean, we started the business when our daughter was four months old. 00:22:44.791 --> 00:22:49.440 We incorporated the business seven days after she was born, which every time I'm 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:50.910 looking for our incorporation paperwork. 00:22:50.910 --> 00:22:56.103 I'm just like what, I'm like, but I look, you know, I I guess I've been reading a 00:22:56.103 --> 00:23:01.023 lot about attachment theory and the last few weeks, and I have to wonder like, 00:23:01.053 --> 00:23:06.233 whether I was as present as a parent, as I should have been, or could have been, 00:23:06.233 --> 00:23:08.123 like, I feel like that answer was no. 00:23:08.303 --> 00:23:12.513 And I'm really just starting to like, grapple with that right now. 00:23:12.815 --> 00:23:16.026 That yeah, while I was playing with her spending time with her as a 00:23:16.026 --> 00:23:18.856 baby, I was also thinking about the business in the back of my head. 00:23:18.856 --> 00:23:22.516 And of course parents always have stresses on their minds and, you know, 00:23:22.516 --> 00:23:26.266 even if you don't have a side project and you're working or you have, you 00:23:26.266 --> 00:23:29.206 know, other stresses coming up that are distracting, you that's natural. 00:23:29.206 --> 00:23:33.270 But, I always had that stressor and, and I guess I feel yeah, and amount of 00:23:33.270 --> 00:23:35.280 like regret now for not having a better. 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:39.570 Balance or not even being able to like turn it off when looking back, 00:23:39.570 --> 00:23:42.000 I feel like I really should have. 00:23:42.297 --> 00:23:45.657 I just, I know many of us are kind of have a little bit of these like workaholic 00:23:45.657 --> 00:23:49.377 tendencies where like, we really love like digging into things and like working 00:23:49.407 --> 00:23:53.897 and balancing that with kids is like, it's really hard and stressful for 00:23:53.897 --> 00:23:55.907 everybody, for like parents and kids. 00:23:56.907 --> 00:23:57.657 Colleen: Yeah, I agree. 00:23:57.657 --> 00:24:01.137 And I think such a small percentage of people make it with 00:24:01.167 --> 00:24:02.337 starting their own businesses. 00:24:02.337 --> 00:24:02.907 I think you're right. 00:24:02.907 --> 00:24:03.207 Michelle. 00:24:03.207 --> 00:24:07.502 I think that people who make it do have the workaholic tendencies, but 00:24:07.562 --> 00:24:09.422 this is something I think about a lot. 00:24:09.624 --> 00:24:13.824 You doing that when she was young has enabled you to literally 00:24:13.824 --> 00:24:15.144 move across the country. 00:24:15.144 --> 00:24:17.304 Cause it's the best thing for your daughter. 00:24:17.600 --> 00:24:19.595 And, you have no way. 00:24:19.595 --> 00:24:20.795 This is in sliding doors, right? 00:24:20.795 --> 00:24:23.765 You have no way to go back and be like, what if I had just kept a corporate 00:24:23.765 --> 00:24:27.155 job that didn't take my mental space, then you might be in a totally 00:24:27.155 --> 00:24:30.485 different situation now where you wouldn't be able to do that for her. 00:24:30.485 --> 00:24:34.532 So I think there's so many trade offs in terms of the amount of work you put 00:24:34.532 --> 00:24:38.162 in and success and what you're building for your family long-term versus 00:24:38.162 --> 00:24:39.482 what you give up in the short term. 00:24:39.482 --> 00:24:39.812 Michele: Yeah. 00:24:39.842 --> 00:24:43.682 I mean, there's so many trade-offs and I was just so after reading atomic habits, 00:24:43.682 --> 00:24:48.182 that he is like a big fan of journaling and I was reading it and I was like, 00:24:48.182 --> 00:24:50.612 Ugh, I'm not going to start journaling. 00:24:50.612 --> 00:24:51.632 And then I was like, okay, fine. 00:24:51.632 --> 00:24:52.322 Maybe I should start. 00:24:52.502 --> 00:24:54.242 Like, I read another book that was like, you've started journaling. 00:24:54.242 --> 00:24:55.532 And I was like, fine. 00:24:55.532 --> 00:24:56.732 And I was like, totally a chore. 00:24:56.792 --> 00:24:58.202 And now I've actually started doing it. 00:24:58.269 --> 00:25:00.711 But I read this book called the midnight library a couple of weeks 00:25:00.711 --> 00:25:03.281 ago where it talks about like this person, basically they die and then 00:25:03.281 --> 00:25:06.581 they get to see what it would have been like if they had made small decisions 00:25:06.581 --> 00:25:07.841 at various points in their life. 00:25:08.231 --> 00:25:10.841 So like how their life would have been different if they had, you know, 00:25:11.081 --> 00:25:14.591 become a rockstar as a teenager or, you know, not broken up with that 00:25:14.591 --> 00:25:17.341 person or whatever, and getting to live all those different lives. 00:25:17.341 --> 00:25:20.011 And it just occurred to me to start like, journaling that out of like, what would 00:25:20.011 --> 00:25:23.941 this be like if you know, we had never started it or I had never gone full time 00:25:23.941 --> 00:25:25.471 or I had gone full time a lot sooner. 00:25:25.521 --> 00:25:29.403 I think it's interesting and helpful as it like a mental exercise to No, I guess to 00:25:29.403 --> 00:25:33.963 what you're saying to be, to be grateful for how things have worked out, even if 00:25:34.463 --> 00:25:36.683 along the way there, there were bumps. 00:25:36.683 --> 00:25:37.023 Colleen: Yeah. 00:25:37.023 --> 00:25:40.533 And I do think this conversation is making me think, we need to reframe 00:25:40.533 --> 00:25:44.643 the narrative on what success looks like as an indie hacker business. 00:25:44.643 --> 00:25:45.063 Michele: Yes. 00:25:45.368 --> 00:25:45.968 Colleen: because. 00:25:46.265 --> 00:25:51.725 As we just discussed this mystical idea, isn't real for anyone. 00:25:51.725 --> 00:25:53.375 So what does success really look like? 00:25:53.375 --> 00:25:58.505 I mean, both of you, to me, both of you look like you're in positions of extreme 00:25:58.505 --> 00:26:03.145 success, yet both of you seem kind, kinda, I mean you're happy, but maybe you're 00:26:03.145 --> 00:26:05.935 not, you don't feel totally successful. 00:26:05.935 --> 00:26:08.065 Like neither of you is like, this is awesome. 00:26:08.065 --> 00:26:08.755 I got it. 00:26:08.765 --> 00:26:09.425 I'm a success. 00:26:09.726 --> 00:26:10.776 I'm just going to enjoy it. 00:26:11.064 --> 00:26:13.104 Chris: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about this. 00:26:13.104 --> 00:26:15.344 There's definitely like the, what is it called? 00:26:15.374 --> 00:26:17.139 I think it's like the hedonic. 00:26:17.503 --> 00:26:18.913 Colleen: hedonistic Adaptation. 00:26:19.603 --> 00:26:20.263 Chris: exactly. 00:26:20.263 --> 00:26:26.543 Or it's like, you become used to wherever you're at and whatever gains or losses 00:26:26.543 --> 00:26:30.051 you've received and it's like, that just becomes your new normal So yeah, 00:26:30.171 --> 00:26:33.601 it's cause I think about this a lot, like if you told me two and a half 00:26:33.601 --> 00:26:36.511 years ago, that Jet Boost would be where it's at today, that I'd be able to work 00:26:36.511 --> 00:26:40.758 full-time on it and, you know, hire someone to help us support and be able 00:26:40.758 --> 00:26:43.029 to comfortably pay him and all of that. 00:26:43.029 --> 00:26:45.129 Like, I'd be like, wow, that's insane. 00:26:45.159 --> 00:26:46.539 Like, that is seriously insane. 00:26:46.539 --> 00:26:48.939 I can't believe that, you know, here, here I am. 00:26:49.184 --> 00:26:52.961 Consulting part-time and watching side projects and having them go nowhere. 00:26:52.961 --> 00:26:56.111 And I'm sure so many people can relate to that. 00:26:56.121 --> 00:27:00.011 And then to finally have one that, that worked, like you said, 00:27:00.101 --> 00:27:03.371 Nathan Barry posted the whole list of all his failed companies. 00:27:03.442 --> 00:27:06.742 It's like once one finally works, you think, okay, like now, now 00:27:06.742 --> 00:27:07.792 everything's going to be amazing. 00:27:07.792 --> 00:27:10.898 Now my life is going to be just like perfect and rainbows and great. 00:27:11.358 --> 00:27:14.418 Eventually, it just becomes part of your life and it's like your new normal, and 00:27:14.418 --> 00:27:17.942 you still have things you have to deal with in new problems and new challenges. 00:27:17.962 --> 00:27:19.042 And in those can be good. 00:27:19.042 --> 00:27:21.432 Like, there are it's stressful at time. 00:27:21.432 --> 00:27:22.902 Like it's stressful thinking. 00:27:22.902 --> 00:27:28.437 Okay like thousands of people rely on this business and rely on it running 00:27:28.437 --> 00:27:32.757 reliably and performing, you know, the, the job that it's supposed to 00:27:32.757 --> 00:27:34.197 do, but it's also a fun challenge. 00:27:34.227 --> 00:27:38.607 It's fun to build something that thousands of people use and give you feedback on. 00:27:38.607 --> 00:27:42.114 And so yeah, I've really been trying to find that balance as far as thinking 00:27:42.114 --> 00:27:46.994 about like what success looks like, what should the goals be going forward? 00:27:46.994 --> 00:27:50.461 And, it's still an ongoing process, but working through it for. 00:27:51.024 --> 00:27:54.274 Michele: Know, I feel like there is a parallel between starting a business. 00:27:54.704 --> 00:27:58.922 And being a parent that, you know, I remember someone telling me when our 00:27:58.922 --> 00:28:02.792 daughter was young, that, you know, the problems you have now for what, 00:28:02.792 --> 00:28:07.172 whether that's, you know, feeding or whatnot, like you will figure out those 00:28:07.172 --> 00:28:11.792 problems, but then more problems will come or more challenges will come. 00:28:11.792 --> 00:28:16.992 And so you are always figuring out one challenge and moving on to the 00:28:16.992 --> 00:28:19.962 next thing that seems even more complicated and it's like, oh my God, 00:28:19.962 --> 00:28:21.282 how are we going to figure this out? 00:28:21.282 --> 00:28:24.582 And then you eventually figure that out and then you go then the next thing. 00:28:24.582 --> 00:28:29.382 And then the next thing, and I feel like running a business is so much like that 00:28:29.382 --> 00:28:36.282 where you're just like very gradually building up this confidence, but there is 00:28:36.282 --> 00:28:39.552 always new challenges, like all the time. 00:28:39.552 --> 00:28:44.292 And it's just a matter of, do you enjoy those challenges that you're facing? 00:28:44.575 --> 00:28:48.615 And, you know, unlike with parenting, with a business, you can decide no, 00:28:48.615 --> 00:28:52.245 and then sell it and move on, you cannot sell your children and move on. 00:28:52.304 --> 00:28:56.460 But I think there's, and I think doing both of those are the same time too. 00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.891 Like I think really I mean, it is, it's just a lot at the same time, 00:29:00.891 --> 00:29:04.371 but I feel like it, it kind of helps to give me that perspective on it. 00:29:04.409 --> 00:29:07.079 Chris: Yeah, one thing I've really been wanting to ask you, because you've been 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.679 doing geocoding for eight years now, and you've said, it's basically like 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.239 you have no plans to sell the business. 00:29:12.239 --> 00:29:15.659 It's the best job you've ever had, but you've also, you've also said like, 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.409 you guys started the business because you want to be able to pay for daycare. 00:29:19.409 --> 00:29:23.846 So did you take steps along the way to intentional like build something 00:29:23.846 --> 00:29:27.146 that you knew you would love doing, or did you just kind of fall into it? 00:29:27.226 --> 00:29:31.126 I'm only two years in and that's like, something that I'm trying to figure 00:29:31.126 --> 00:29:34.746 out is how to, like, there are things I love about the business, but there are 00:29:34.746 --> 00:29:40.372 also some things about jet boosts that are not enjoyable, if that makes it. 00:29:40.811 --> 00:29:41.081 Michele: Yeah. 00:29:41.111 --> 00:29:44.471 I mean, I think as you go, you know, you're designing a business, right? 00:29:44.471 --> 00:29:48.341 Like we don't think about it as a form of design, but it is all the decisions 00:29:48.341 --> 00:29:52.781 we make are design decisions about the kind of business we want to be running. 00:29:52.781 --> 00:29:57.281 Even things like, you know, do we, are we freemium or we call for a demo, right? 00:29:57.331 --> 00:30:01.141 That has a huge impact on your business model, but also, you know, maybe on 00:30:01.141 --> 00:30:05.772 your happiness as a solo founder, You know, if you love being on phone calls, 00:30:05.772 --> 00:30:07.032 then that's a great design decision. 00:30:07.032 --> 00:30:08.562 If you don't, then it's not. 00:30:09.203 --> 00:30:14.005 And so, you know, along the way we have made decisions both a lot, like 00:30:14.095 --> 00:30:17.785 align for what we needed, you know, like we needed it to be a low touch 00:30:17.785 --> 00:30:22.303 SAS for a long time, because we could not work on it most of the day. 00:30:22.303 --> 00:30:25.798 And so that informed a lot of our decisions around automating things and 00:30:25.798 --> 00:30:28.318 making things very clear and transparent. 00:30:28.318 --> 00:30:30.528 And like, we couldn't have call us for pricing because 00:30:30.528 --> 00:30:31.728 we couldn't pick up the phone. 00:30:31.754 --> 00:30:35.089 And that also turned out to be the kind of business that we like running 00:30:35.089 --> 00:30:36.739 that we feel good about running. 00:30:37.229 --> 00:30:37.689 I don't know. 00:30:37.689 --> 00:30:41.259 I guess you know, we only do things if they align with what we believe in 00:30:41.259 --> 00:30:45.039 and how we would want to be treated as customers ourselves, and, you know, I 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:50.589 have no great passion for the concept of latitude and longitude coordinates. 00:30:51.109 --> 00:30:54.140 You know, they're, they're not stamps like nobody collects them for the fun of it. 00:30:54.208 --> 00:30:56.030 But I love working with our customers. 00:30:56.030 --> 00:31:00.400 I love what we are able to help our customers do and the amount of stress 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.190 we're able to take off their plates and complication we're able to take off their 00:31:03.190 --> 00:31:04.600 plates of what they're trying to do. 00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:06.550 And I just like nerd out on business in general. 00:31:06.550 --> 00:31:10.960 And so I love like being a horizontal SAS for me is really, really fun 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.520 because I love getting to learn about. 00:31:13.300 --> 00:31:16.210 All these types of businesses that had never even occurred to me that they 00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:17.920 existed and they use our software. 00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:19.200 It's just so cool to me. 00:31:19.293 --> 00:31:23.113 And then I get to work with my husband who is like the best coworker I have ever had. 00:31:23.176 --> 00:31:25.270 And that's what makes me want to keep working on it. 00:31:25.282 --> 00:31:27.412 and, and do that for, you know, as long as we can. 00:31:28.022 --> 00:31:28.592 Chris: that's awesome. 00:31:28.592 --> 00:31:32.286 I also want to challenge you on not having great passion for longitude 00:31:32.286 --> 00:31:36.851 and latitude coordinates because the other day you told me a fact the 00:31:36.851 --> 00:31:39.941 only moving zip code in the U S so 00:31:41.216 --> 00:31:43.046 Michele: It is a mail on Lake Michigan. 00:31:44.046 --> 00:31:44.316 Yeah. 00:31:44.316 --> 00:31:48.136 You know, you find moments of delight even in strings of numbers. 00:31:48.166 --> 00:31:48.526 Yes. 00:31:48.643 --> 00:31:51.613 Colleen: Well, I think that's going to wrap up this week's episode 00:31:51.613 --> 00:31:53.503 of the software social podcast. 00:31:53.503 --> 00:31:55.483 Chris, thank you so much for coming on today. 00:31:55.483 --> 00:31:55.813 Chris: Yeah. 00:31:55.843 --> 00:31:57.133 Thanks so much for having me. 00:31:57.133 --> 00:31:59.623 Michele: Chris, if people want to check you out, check out jet 00:31:59.623 --> 00:32:02.443 boost, listened to your podcasts. 00:32:02.443 --> 00:32:03.073 Where should they go? 00:32:03.378 --> 00:32:03.648 Chris: Yeah. 00:32:03.648 --> 00:32:06.697 So you can find jet boost@jetboost.io. 00:32:06.706 --> 00:32:09.436 I also do a podcast with Corey Haines. 00:32:09.528 --> 00:32:10.788 It's called default alive. 00:32:10.788 --> 00:32:13.278 I believe the, the URL is default alive.fm. 00:32:13.278 --> 00:32:16.698 And you can find me on Twitter as C underscores Spags. 00:32:16.698 --> 00:32:17.028 Michele: Awesome. 00:32:17.028 --> 00:32:18.528 Well, thanks so much for coming on. 00:32:18.528 --> 00:32:18.768 Chris: Yeah. 00:32:18.798 --> 00:32:19.158 Thanks.