1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,920 the white collar recession. Things are 2 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:03,760 changing faster than we've ever seen 3 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,000 before. That I was making impact in 4 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,520 organizations but not always seeing the 5 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,599 full benefit. You get some protection 6 00:00:09,599 --> 00:00:11,280 because of that. But I wanted something 7 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,120 a little different. That's a pretty 8 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:15,200 that's about as a staple as a job you 9 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,359 can have. What are the problems that you 10 00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:20,080 are uniquely designed to solve? You may 11 00:00:20,080 --> 00:00:22,080 be really great at designing labels for 12 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,560 eight tracks. No one's buying that right 13 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,840 now. individuals that have really never 14 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,960 had to struggle to find a job um that 15 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,800 are struggling. We might be able to have 16 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,960 two that are overseeing the AI and 17 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,800 double-checking the AI work. How do we 18 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,440 figure out how to pay for this? All 19 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,960 chickens come home to roost. Getting 20 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,239 them back to the office, it's really a 21 00:00:42,239 --> 00:00:43,920 guys that can figure out more ways to 22 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,520 lay people off. Now that the cheese has 23 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,760 moved, the landscape has changed. What's 24 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,600 a resume, right? Like you had to 25 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,760 basically back the recruiters out of 26 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,280 your inbox if you were any good. 27 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,879 Everyone's both a tech company and a 28 00:00:54,879 --> 00:00:56,559 media company. They are not in business 29 00:00:56,559 --> 00:00:59,440 to help you feed your family. Hard stop. 30 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:00,480 Everybody needs to have an 31 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,039 entrepreneurial mindset. The illiterate 32 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:05,680 of the 21st century will not be those 33 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,320 who cannot read or write, but those who 34 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:12,080 cannot learn, unlearn, 35 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,680 and relearn. 85% of the jobs in 2030 36 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:17,360 don't actually exist right now because 37 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,080 you were at that job, right? And I'm not 38 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,080 and they still laid you off. What you 39 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,520 going to do? like you got to actually be 40 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,920 able to have a dynamic uh conversation. 41 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:27,759 You are positioning yourself to work 42 00:01:27,759 --> 00:01:29,020 harder. 43 00:01:29,020 --> 00:01:35,650 [Music] 44 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:37,920 Welcome to Disruption Now. I'm your host 45 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,759 and moderator, Rob Richardson. You know, 46 00:01:39,759 --> 00:01:41,520 on the show, we love to bring on 47 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,240 innovators, entrepreneurs, and those who 48 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,479 are disrupting the status quo in their 49 00:01:46,479 --> 00:01:48,720 own way. And Nicole is doing that for 50 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,720 the for the rec for the white collar 51 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,479 recession we're having right now to help 52 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:54,960 you through your job search through your 53 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:56,799 career because things are changing 54 00:01:56,799 --> 00:01:58,719 faster than we've ever seen before. But 55 00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:01,040 before I get into the show, always I 56 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:02,880 want to encourage you to become part of 57 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,799 our community of disruptors. You know, 58 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,200 about 90% of you that watch the show 59 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,599 aren't actually subscribers. Ask you to 60 00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:11,840 be a subscriber. Please leave a review. 61 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,560 Also, if you're listening to this on on 62 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:16,480 podcast, leave a review. That's how we 63 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,800 can spread our message more to make sure 64 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,560 that uh we continue to uh move society 65 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,640 forward to make it more human centric as 66 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:27,840 as emerging technology uh becomes more a 67 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,680 part of our society. So we can't get 68 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,280 that message out unless you tell people. 69 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,120 So we need more fellow disruptors. We 70 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,040 need you. Uh we also have an upcoming 71 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,319 conference that we'd love to invite you 72 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:38,000 to September 10th and 11th called 73 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,080 Midwestcon. a social innovation 74 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,360 conference that focuses on humanizing uh 75 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,519 innovation and embedding empathy into 76 00:02:45,519 --> 00:02:47,519 innovation. But without any further ado, 77 00:02:47,519 --> 00:02:49,599 Nicole, great to have you on the show. 78 00:02:49,599 --> 00:02:51,519 How you doing today? 79 00:02:51,519 --> 00:02:53,440 I am doing well. Thanks so much. Glad to 80 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:54,800 be here. It's a long time coming this 81 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,720 conversation, Rob. It has it has been a 82 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,879 long time coming, but you know, I I 83 00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:01,680 enjoyed our prep conversation and uh I'm 84 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,920 really um inspired by what you do and uh 85 00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:08,080 want to talk to you more about it. So, 86 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:09,599 you haven't been doing this your entire 87 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:13,200 career and uh so I'm curious 88 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,159 like what made you realize that that you 89 00:03:16,159 --> 00:03:19,440 wanted to be in uh in the mission of 90 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:20,800 helping people through their job and 91 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,879 through their careers? Like how did you 92 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:24,879 come to this epiphany? Yeah. Yeah, 93 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:26,640 that's a great question. Uh my 94 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:28,239 background really is in a few different 95 00:03:28,239 --> 00:03:29,760 sectors. Corporate America and the 96 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,200 nonprofit sector as well as um uh 97 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,519 entrepreneurship and consulting. On the 98 00:03:35,519 --> 00:03:37,360 corporate and nonprofit side of my 99 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,799 background, I've done quite a bit in 100 00:03:38,799 --> 00:03:41,120 operations and administrative management 101 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,920 as well as human resources. I have 102 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:45,840 always loved the process of hiring my 103 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,080 teams, helping the people that are on my 104 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,159 teams grow and develop within the roles 105 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:52,159 at my company and also just thinking 106 00:03:52,159 --> 00:03:53,840 through what are the steps to make my 107 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,799 hiring process more efficient. Right? So 108 00:03:56,799 --> 00:03:58,879 that's kind of where it started as a 109 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:00,799 manager growing teams in at the time 110 00:04:00,799 --> 00:04:03,280 what was a fast growing ear a new state 111 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,000 a newer industry which was um for-profit 112 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,760 or online university 113 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,799 I was hiring handover fist every quarter 114 00:04:12,799 --> 00:04:14,080 for at the time I was working with 115 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,479 Kaplan University and we were at the 116 00:04:16,479 --> 00:04:18,160 point the number two player in the 117 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,560 market and growing that team of of 118 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,160 support team and how do I go about 119 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:23,440 having these level one and level two 120 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,120 tech support people come through my my 121 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,919 my team, get them upskilled quickly so 122 00:04:27,919 --> 00:04:29,919 they can address the issues. So that was 123 00:04:29,919 --> 00:04:32,000 how I cut my teeth on all all things 124 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,720 related to hiring and the hiring market 125 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,360 um as a hiring manager. Uh from that 126 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,520 point though, I also then moved into 127 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,240 doing some things in um related to HR 128 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,560 and recruiting for other organizations. 129 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,919 Uh everything related to how do you help 130 00:04:47,919 --> 00:04:50,400 managers make better decisions. Fast 131 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,240 forward to a few years later, I'm 132 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,960 working in management again myself at 133 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,720 Northwestern University at the law 134 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:58,960 school there and I am hiring a smaller 135 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:00,720 team, but I'm doing some hiring and and 136 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,800 there as well. And in the midst of 137 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,240 things that were happening in that 138 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,600 economy, which we are of a similar age 139 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,160 range, so 2008, 140 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:11,680 2007, 141 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,600 2008, we all know what was happening in 142 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,199 the economy at that point. Um, and I had 143 00:05:17,199 --> 00:05:18,720 a series of things that happened that 144 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:20,080 made me decide that it was time for me 145 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:21,600 to step out and try something on my own. 146 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,199 Let me try this entrepreneurship thing. 147 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:24,880 I have entrepreneurs on both sides of my 148 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,880 family. I started to realize that I was 149 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,039 making impact in organizations but not 150 00:05:29,039 --> 00:05:30,479 always seeing the full benefit of the 151 00:05:30,479 --> 00:05:31,919 impact that I was making because that's 152 00:05:31,919 --> 00:05:34,720 what happens when you um are employed 153 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,960 and that's okay. You get some protection 154 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,720 because of that. But I wanted something 155 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,600 a little different. Hm. Theoretically, 156 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,000 yes. But yes, the theoretically 157 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,000 theoretically, right, fast forward to 158 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,759 today. Um, however, I wanted to try 159 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:49,680 something different and I stepped away 160 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,600 from a full-time job in management at 161 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,800 the at the law school there at 162 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,880 Northwestern um to start uh my very 163 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,320 first business, which was basically 164 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,160 consulting to small business owners on 165 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,039 legal services. Wow. I did that in 2008 166 00:06:05,039 --> 00:06:07,919 um is my last day there. And of course 167 00:06:07,919 --> 00:06:11,759 if we know what happened 2008 2009 168 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:15,440 it became quite clear that we were it 169 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,039 was business it was not business as 170 00:06:17,039 --> 00:06:19,680 usual if you will and through that 171 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,319 process who I had to become in order to 172 00:06:22,319 --> 00:06:25,600 quite frankly close sales Rob I had to 173 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,680 take every aspect of my professional 174 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,280 background everything I learned from 175 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:31,120 marketing my first job out of college I 176 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,039 worked in in in luxury package goods 177 00:06:33,039 --> 00:06:35,520 marketing um and how to help people 178 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,440 understand those elements ments I 179 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,280 everything I learned as a go there a 180 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:41,520 little bit Nicole I'd like to get to 181 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,080 your aspects but you obviously have a 182 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:48,080 lot of career experience and you made 183 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,880 that big transition between uh you know 184 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,560 having a job at Northwestern is a that's 185 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,720 a pretty that's about as stable as a job 186 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,199 you can have uh it used to be government 187 00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:59,199 very different nowadays too but I 188 00:06:59,199 --> 00:07:03,599 digress uh that was a very stable job 189 00:07:03,599 --> 00:07:06,160 what advice would you give looking back 190 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:07,840 your younger self knowing everything you 191 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:09,759 know now 192 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:11,680 in terms of like making that transition 193 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,080 because a lot of people are going to 194 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,560 either awaken to that transition right 195 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,080 now or going to be forced to that 196 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,639 transition right now. So what advice 197 00:07:20,639 --> 00:07:22,080 would you give your younger self when 198 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,400 you're first starting off from uh 199 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,400 leaving the 95 to the entrepreneurial 200 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,520 journey? Nothing is wasted, right? What 201 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,440 do you do best? What do you love to do 202 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,479 most? Um what is it that when you do it 203 00:07:36,479 --> 00:07:39,039 people marvel right it's not it's common 204 00:07:39,039 --> 00:07:41,520 it's common place to you when but when 205 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:44,400 you do it people are just shocked and 206 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,880 awe in shock and in awe that you can see 207 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,199 a solution to something what are the 208 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:51,520 problems that you are uniquely designed 209 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,199 to solve and secondly even so that's 210 00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:57,280 your own self assessment but the second 211 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,560 part of that is what does the market 212 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,720 need right now 213 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:02,560 you might be really great at designing 214 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,120 labels for eight tracks. No one's buying 215 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,599 that right now. 216 00:08:07,599 --> 00:08:09,440 Not that I know. I'm just saying. Not 217 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,680 that there may be like five people that 218 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,160 are collecting them for their, you know, 219 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,080 personal museum, right? And I'm so happy 220 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,560 that you have those customers. However, 221 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,879 looking at what the marketplace needs 222 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:22,960 plus what you are uniquely designed to 223 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,520 do and bringing those two together can 224 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,000 be a very powerful place. Right. No, the 225 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,160 intersection. 226 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,520 Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say 227 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,360 there's some additional nuances to that, 228 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:34,640 right? You know, what does the 229 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,320 competitive set look like? How hard is 230 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,039 it to bring that to profit? Um, how easy 231 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:41,440 is it for that to scale based on what 232 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,599 your actual goals are? But those are the 233 00:08:43,599 --> 00:08:46,000 two first pieces. Yeah. But that that's 234 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,000 that's, you know, being able to identify 235 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,440 what you're uniquely positioned at and 236 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:53,519 and what the market actually needs. 237 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:55,839 Yeah. and and these fundamentals don't 238 00:08:55,839 --> 00:08:57,680 change right now even in the midst of 239 00:08:57,680 --> 00:08:59,920 this this uh this white collar recession 240 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:01,600 that we're going through right now. So I 241 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,080 think that's really really great advice. 242 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,000 Let's talk about this shift though. What 243 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,240 do you think has what is going on right 244 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,000 now? What is the shift that you see is 245 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,399 happening and because we've seen cycles 246 00:09:12,399 --> 00:09:13,519 before, right? I think there's a 247 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:16,320 difference between things being cyclical 248 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:18,880 and that like 2008 there was a there was 249 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,200 a you know just a downturn, a recession, 250 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,279 a mass recession and those things 251 00:09:23,279 --> 00:09:27,200 happen. Uh but we talked about this and 252 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,200 I think you you agree there's been a 253 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,880 fundamental shift. What do you think the 254 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,880 fundamental shift is when it comes to 255 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:34,720 the job market right now specifically 256 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,200 with the white collar market? Yeah, I 257 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:38,800 think the biggest shift is that there 258 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,120 are individuals that have really never 259 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,240 had to struggle to find a job um that 260 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,959 are struggling and I can speak about 261 00:09:46,959 --> 00:09:49,920 this from an industry's perspective. 262 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,480 Clearly, this this audience and and your 263 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:53,920 platform, you speak a lot more to folks 264 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,200 that are in the tech industry or that 265 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,120 are tech curious or that are looking to 266 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,720 implement that more into their life 267 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,399 every day and in the business and 268 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,440 political sectors. However, I think it's 269 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,200 important to realize that it's gone 270 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,680 beyond that. And yes, we can start at 271 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:09,040 this year, but we actually could 272 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:10,399 probably start two and a half years 273 00:10:10,399 --> 00:10:12,880 earlier when open AI came to the 274 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,680 forefront in many ways to bring Gen AI 275 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,760 to the masses. That's when we started to 276 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,200 really see the disruption about two and 277 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,360 a half two two and a half years ago. Um 278 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,079 that January of what 2023 when it 279 00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:25,440 started to show up everywhere and we 280 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,760 were hearing all of that talk. um 281 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,399 companies from 2023 and I'm speaking now 282 00:10:30,399 --> 00:10:32,000 specifically to the tech industry. Of 283 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,240 course it is trickling down to other 284 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,720 industries. Companies from 2023 started 285 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,200 to say wait a second we are paying our 286 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,640 you know top um architects and these 287 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,560 other people that have these highly 288 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:47,839 skilled high high level skills $300,000 289 00:10:47,839 --> 00:10:52,240 $200,000 base or 250 plus you know 20% 290 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,519 bonus you know total comp plus stock for 291 00:10:55,519 --> 00:10:57,600 one person. And we have hundreds or 292 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,360 possibly thousands of these people 293 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,000 across the planet. But there's this AI 294 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,519 thing that costs a lot of money to 295 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:06,640 implement. Yes. But it's proponing. It's 296 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,800 saying that we may very well be able to 297 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:12,079 cut instead of having 10 programmers or 298 00:11:12,079 --> 00:11:13,760 developers doing this work. We might be 299 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,760 able to have two that are overseeing the 300 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,000 AI and double-checking the AI work. So a 301 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,519 lot of companies went into this and 302 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:21,279 said, how do we figure out number one, 303 00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:24,399 how not to be left behind, right? And 304 00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:27,120 number two, how do we figure out how to 305 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,440 pay for this? How do we figure out how 306 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,120 to pay for it? Right? And so those are 307 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,360 the couple of things that happen that 308 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,200 are probably the easiest for everyone to 309 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,279 see on the surface. But we could also 310 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:39,200 quite frankly go even further back than 311 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,959 that. Remember this little thing called 312 00:11:40,959 --> 00:11:45,839 COVID, right? 2020, 2021, and the global 313 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:48,240 impact of that. There was a cost in 314 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,079 America for us to put some of the 315 00:11:50,079 --> 00:11:51,920 policies in place for the world to shut 316 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:53,600 down. And some of that cost we have been 317 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,040 paying for for the past several years 318 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,680 through inflation, right? The cost of 319 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:59,680 goods and services have gone higher have 320 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:02,320 gotten higher. And again, not to talk go 321 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,800 too far into politics and and political 322 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,800 policies, but it's kind of hard not to 323 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,320 touch on it a little bit. Absolutely. 324 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,680 Yeah. Well, you're not you're not you're 325 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:11,360 not you're not debarred from doing that. 326 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,880 So, go for it. Multiply. Well, 327 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,839 well, I want to make sure that we 328 00:12:17,839 --> 00:12:19,519 there's so much noise right now in the 329 00:12:19,519 --> 00:12:21,120 marketplace and we'll get to the what 330 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,880 what people need to be doing today. I I 331 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,800 have some very specific thoughts about 332 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,720 that, but I do think in order to even 333 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,399 have a context of what to do today, we 334 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,560 need to understand what has happened. 335 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,000 Agreed. 336 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,920 part of 337 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,959 the world shutting down um and goods and 338 00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:38,880 services not moving the way that they 339 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,920 once did across our planet um caused not 340 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,720 only a backlog um it cost it cost a lot 341 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,639 of money for the the the world to shut 342 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:49,279 down the way that we had to because we 343 00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,760 didn't have a cure for this thing called 344 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,000 yeah people were dying and we like to 345 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,240 remake facts about things but like 346 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,519 million I think over a million people 347 00:12:57,519 --> 00:12:59,360 died in the US alone there's a lot of 348 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,079 people that died in the US alone. 349 00:13:02,079 --> 00:13:05,920 Exactly. Right. So we are we had to do 350 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,800 certain things and also because again I 351 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,000 I referenced 2008 2009 at the beginning 352 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,760 beginning of this conversation but there 353 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,480 are politicians in 20 in 2020 that were 354 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,880 in office or were very much working 355 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,680 adults during 2008 and 2009. And if you 356 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,480 understand what happened in 2009 and the 357 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,560 fact that the world went into a global 358 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,279 recession because American polit we 359 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:32,000 allowed big banks to fail which impacted 360 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,200 monetary um monetary structures across 361 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,440 the planet. 362 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,440 No one wanted to be in politics and have 363 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:43,279 it on their back that they allowed again 364 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:45,440 an an economy to crash. So we wrote 365 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,120 checks like anything. We were sending 366 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,360 stimulus checks. We were, hey, if you've 367 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:50,720 got a mortgage, you don't have to pay 368 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,279 the mortgage for a year. We will hold it 369 00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:55,040 because we know that we're not working. 370 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,480 We will do all of these things. We've 371 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:58,399 got PPP loans. We've got all this money 372 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:00,639 that we threw in to make sure that this 373 00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:03,120 the economy didn't go to the bottom, 374 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,279 i.e. 2009, right? And that worked in the 375 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:08,959 short term, but all chickens come home 376 00:14:08,959 --> 00:14:11,279 to roost. Yeah. Someone's got to pay for 377 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,120 that. And some of that's being paid for 378 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,839 in inflation. So, that also started it. 379 00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:18,480 That also started where things cost 380 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,120 more. If eggs for you and I cost $8 a 381 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,880 dozen and a company needs to for us, how 382 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,279 much more where everything from paper 383 00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:30,880 goods to microchips to anything that a 384 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,920 company needs to buy is it costing? 385 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:35,519 Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, I agree. I 386 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:37,279 mean, it's it's definitely it's 387 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:40,399 something that we can't we got here 388 00:14:40,399 --> 00:14:41,760 through a collection of things, right? 389 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,320 And you look at 2020. 2020 was a 390 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:46,959 different market when it came to the on 391 00:14:46,959 --> 00:14:49,600 the employee side, right? You were I 392 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:51,360 think it's one of the strongest markets 393 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,040 we've seen and people got a false sense 394 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,000 of I think power and security about what 395 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,279 it looks like and I feel like we're 396 00:14:57,279 --> 00:14:59,600 seeing the mirror reflection or exact 397 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,519 opposite I would say of 2020 we're 398 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:04,320 seeing in 2025 in that this is now a 399 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,320 completely employer market. employers 400 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,800 are moving to get people I think back to 401 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,800 the office under the guise of getting 402 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,000 them back to the office. It's really a 403 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,680 guise I think to figure out more ways to 404 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,600 lay people off. Uh but that's the but 405 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,440 but I think this is the world that we're 406 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,519 in and we can complain about it all we 407 00:15:19,519 --> 00:15:21,760 want but the this is the world we're in. 408 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,000 So you are we are navigating this as 409 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,920 working professionals 410 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,399 like how what advice do you give to 411 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:30,880 working professionals now because things 412 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:32,240 are different now that the cheese has 413 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,959 moved the landscape has changed how do 414 00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:37,199 you advise current working professionals 415 00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:39,600 that like you said aren't necessarily 416 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,760 used to the struggle and are and are 417 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,279 adapting to a new reality. Yeah. It's 418 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:46,800 interesting because a lot of the work I 419 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,639 personally personally one-on-one have 420 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:49,920 probably worked with at this point in my 421 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,560 career over 1500 people that are in 422 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,480 career transition this year. Probably a 423 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:58,000 hundred alone this year, right? Um so 424 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,800 it's not I I have a lot of conversations 425 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,320 with folks in a lot of industries. 426 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,759 Probably about 60% of the people that I 427 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:08,079 work with 50 to 60% of them are coming 428 00:16:08,079 --> 00:16:10,560 from the tech space, right? Um certainly 429 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,480 I've worked across all industries, but 430 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,000 that's probably a bigger component of 431 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,440 that. So, I'm going to first talk to 432 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,079 that person because I think that is the 433 00:16:18,079 --> 00:16:20,240 audience that is probably the most has 434 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,440 been the most surprised or disrupted by 435 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:24,959 what's been happening the last couple of 436 00:16:24,959 --> 00:16:27,519 years, right? Um, 437 00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:29,600 number one, it's not business as usual 438 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,360 in a job search. Quite frankly, the in 439 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,880 in the past, my average tech 440 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:34,079 professional didn't even really have to 441 00:16:34,079 --> 00:16:36,000 do a job search. What's a resume, right? 442 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,920 Like, you had to basically back the 443 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,240 recruiters out of your inbox if you were 444 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,680 any good at what you did and if you had 445 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,839 a particular trajectory in your career. 446 00:16:43,839 --> 00:16:46,160 um that was the way that you did that. 447 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,480 You got a very strong six-figure income 448 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,079 doing work that you were good at that 449 00:16:50,079 --> 00:16:51,680 people were constantly recruiting you to 450 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,320 pay you more money to do. Right? So that 451 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,279 if you grew up in the tech space and you 452 00:16:57,279 --> 00:16:59,120 grew up, let's say you are somewhere 453 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,040 between 30 and 50 and you've spent the 454 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,319 last, you know, 20 10 to 20 plus years 455 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,799 of your professional career in tech up 456 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:09,360 until two and a half years ago, you 457 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:11,120 probably don't know a whole lot about 458 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:12,640 what it is to actually have a true 459 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,400 full-time proactive job search. You 460 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,439 don't know that life. You don't know 461 00:17:15,439 --> 00:17:18,000 that world. No. Right. So that's the 462 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,079 first thing. Um, now we are, you and I 463 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:22,480 are talking in 2025. This is a 464 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,640 conversation that I've been having with 465 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,600 folks since 2022, 2023. Um, and it's 466 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:30,960 even more relevant today because it's 467 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,640 trickling down to other industries and 468 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,200 sectors, right? Um, so number one, 469 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,400 understand that you actually have to 470 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,160 execute a true job search and not just 471 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,919 any old job search, but a job search 472 00:17:39,919 --> 00:17:42,160 strategy, right? Which means you're 473 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,600 doing certain things based on a goal 474 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,960 that you have in mind about where you 475 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,400 want to go, not today, but where you see 476 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,120 the marketplace going in the future. 477 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,120 So that's the first thing. I think the 478 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,520 second thing to keep in mind is that we 479 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,919 didn't just have this inflationary 480 00:17:55,919 --> 00:17:57,679 environment and companies are laying off 481 00:17:57,679 --> 00:17:59,679 let's just say tech professionals um 482 00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:02,880 because of needing to find f funds and 483 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,679 change priorities right um so that they 484 00:18:05,679 --> 00:18:07,679 can implement and bring on more of these 485 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:09,840 AI and genai tools so they can be 486 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,880 competitive it wasn't just that it is 487 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,960 now you also tech professional need to 488 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,679 understand how to use some of these AI 489 00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:19,280 tools and what what are the pros and 490 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,320 cons of using these every single day in 491 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,480 your in your particular function. I feel 492 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,840 like and that's a conversation that we 493 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,080 could talk about beyond just um the tech 494 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,799 industry. Every single industry, I don't 495 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:34,160 care whether you are a um teacher, I 496 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:35,120 don't care whether you are an 497 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:38,000 accountant, whether you are a podcaster, 498 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,400 um whether you are a content creator, 499 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,520 whether you are a marketer, um every 500 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,799 single industry is now having to think 501 00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:50,480 about whether they want to or not. 502 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,679 How is Gen AI and the tools that are 503 00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:56,320 coming out disrupting the way that I do 504 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,360 business? Yes. Yes. I mean, it's it's 505 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:01,280 it's Yes. Yes. And yes. So, beyond being 506 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,440 a podcaster, we also build and build 507 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,640 applications uh AI and Jet applications. 508 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,799 But mo the most important and the and 509 00:19:08,799 --> 00:19:10,960 the thing and the place we start with is 510 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,640 you know what is your vision for your 511 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,320 company and and what changes are you 512 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,160 seeking to make and helping them and 513 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:17,919 what are your pain points and how do you 514 00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:20,799 currently go about them now um and and 515 00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:22,240 so like I think that's so important what 516 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,080 you said and I think getting back to 517 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,160 this working professional right you have 518 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,760 to think about the fundamentals to be 519 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,760 successful you kind of hit some of them 520 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,840 right um like I look at it and I'd like 521 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,280 to get your comments on this basically 522 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:36,559 about three things you needs to 523 00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:39,679 understand. It's a different way. Uh we 524 00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:40,960 have the job seekers and there's a way 525 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,160 that I want you to talk about that a 526 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,120 little bit about what you need to be 527 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,240 successful because I think I want to 528 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,240 dive more into that. But the working 529 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,000 professional, 530 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,880 the founder, whoever you are, right? 531 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,960 Whatever whatever you're doing, whoever 532 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,799 who who's ever listening to the sound of 533 00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:57,280 my voice, you are going to have to 534 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,360 approach things differently. Like it 535 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,840 used to be, as you know, and we had this 536 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,600 conversation when we prepped for the uh 537 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,240 podcast, a 538 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,160 a person that was a coder, if you were a 539 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:10,240 good coder, you can just go sit in a 540 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,160 corner, not talk to anybody, go code. As 541 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,400 long as you coded well, no one cared, 542 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,320 right? Um there might be a few people 543 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:19,679 like that, but you have to be so damn 544 00:20:19,679 --> 00:20:21,039 good. You have to probably be in the top 545 00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,840 1% like to be to for that to be 546 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:25,919 something you can get away with. Now, 547 00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:27,760 that's no longer the case. you have to 548 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,919 now have a more global picture of things 549 00:20:29,919 --> 00:20:31,440 of understanding the business 550 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,840 fundamentals. Um, even if you're not 551 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,000 technical, as you said, everyone's both 552 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,760 a tech company and a media company. 553 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,360 Everybody has to know some level of 554 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,000 technology. Period. Hard stop, right? 555 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000 And you have to know how to interact 556 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,320 with AI in some ways. That doesn't mean 557 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,240 you have to be an expert in all things, 558 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,640 but you better be comfortable with AI 559 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,120 amplifying what you do. and then look 560 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,840 for uh opportunities uh that others 561 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,360 don't see and find and connect patterns. 562 00:20:57,360 --> 00:20:59,840 I say so we have to be in some ways we 563 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,480 have more opportunities but in in a way 564 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,799 in in another way you have to also kind 565 00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:06,640 of know a little more and learn a little 566 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,640 more than you had to before even though 567 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,960 that there's more tools at your ca at 568 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,039 your at your disposal. I'm curious to 569 00:21:13,039 --> 00:21:14,960 see what do you think as a working 570 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,320 professional if you had to give the top 571 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,240 three things you you need to do to be 572 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,400 successful as a professional what would 573 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,280 those things be? 574 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,159 Number one you must understand business 575 00:21:26,159 --> 00:21:28,000 perspective. So this is where the white 576 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,520 collar professional the white collar 577 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:31,520 recession piece comes in. As I mentioned 578 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,159 a few moments ago we have people that 579 00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:35,600 never really had to struggle because 580 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,159 they did the things right. They got the 581 00:21:38,159 --> 00:21:39,919 bachelor's degree, maybe even a master's 582 00:21:39,919 --> 00:21:42,400 degree in their area of expertise. They 583 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,320 worked through the Fortune 500s or 584 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,720 Fortune 100 companies. They grew their 585 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,880 skill set over time and they continue to 586 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,440 do so. And even those people because of 587 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,320 no fault in many instances of their own 588 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,320 um they may find themselves out of work 589 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,080 in an environment that has shifted, 590 00:21:58,080 --> 00:21:59,840 right? Um, for some of those 591 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,080 individuals, 592 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,679 and I'm I'll speak to the tech industry 593 00:22:03,679 --> 00:22:04,960 professional, but also beyond that, 594 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,000 whether we're talking about someone 595 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,520 that's in accounting or someone that's 596 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,000 in education or some other piece, they 597 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,520 really didn't have to know what how the 598 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,960 business made money or really have a 599 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,799 full understanding of how the business 600 00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:16,320 that they were working for, the company 601 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,640 that they were working for, um, made 602 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,559 money, what was the competitive set 603 00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,320 around them, um, what were the things 604 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:23,840 that were shifting the decision- making 605 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,080 in the company. That was something that 606 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,000 no one really wants to talk about this, 607 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:29,919 but you kind of didn't need to 608 00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:31,679 understand that unless you were in a 609 00:22:31,679 --> 00:22:34,720 sales or a you were more a senior level 610 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,400 role as you were going up into the the 611 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,559 the senior level or senior director, 612 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:40,720 vice president level roles, then an 613 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,320 understanding even more so of the 614 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,120 business perspective was necessary. That 615 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,520 is not the case anymore. I do believe 616 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,280 that a lot of reasons, a lot of the 617 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,360 reason that companies ended up cutting 618 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,840 people from their staff that may even 619 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,360 have been in functions that were making 620 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,120 money, they just needed maybe that was a 621 00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:59,360 lower priority for the business. So 622 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:01,440 understanding how the company that 623 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,120 you're considering working for that you 624 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:04,559 currently work for, how do they make 625 00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:07,440 money, right? What is the competitive 626 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,080 set around that company doing? Because 627 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,720 if you do not believe that many of the 628 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,000 layoffs that were happening in fame 629 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,280 companies were happening because the 630 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,280 competitor across the street right 631 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,120 whether I'm Amazon and I'm looking at 632 00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:21,039 Meta laying off and I'm over because 633 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:23,039 they're getting ready to get money 634 00:23:23,039 --> 00:23:24,799 together to go ahead and invest in these 635 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,600 data centers or I am you know IBM and 636 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,720 Dell's over here doing layoffs 637 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,360 right like it they respond to each other 638 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,360 and how they are responding and that 639 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,000 trickles down to you accountant you 640 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,159 marketing um director ctor you you know 641 00:23:42,159 --> 00:23:44,720 programmer. Yeah. I mean that's that's 642 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,960 yeah that that's go ahead Nicole. Yeah. 643 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,240 So I I think I was just going to say 644 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,520 that's that's one of the biggest things 645 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,679 like recognizing that understanding 646 00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:53,440 business 647 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,679 is actually in my opinion something that 648 00:23:55,679 --> 00:23:57,840 is becoming much more of a fundamental 649 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,799 need for the everyday worker. Right? We 650 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:02,400 are in whether you want whether you like 651 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,360 it or not. We are in a society that is 652 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,919 based on capitalism. Business are 653 00:24:07,919 --> 00:24:10,080 businesses are in business to make a 654 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,559 profit. They are not in business to help 655 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:15,120 you feed your family. They are not in 656 00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:19,200 business to um 657 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,960 primarily in business to produ um 658 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,559 release goods and services to the 659 00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,880 marketplace. They are a business is a 660 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,159 business in order to make a profit. 661 00:24:30,159 --> 00:24:31,679 Right. Yeah. Hard stop. Hard stop. 662 00:24:31,679 --> 00:24:34,880 That's hard stop. Hard stop. And so if 663 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,120 the landscape in which a company makes 664 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,480 profits changes, the company is fast, 665 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:41,679 especially if they're publicly traded 666 00:24:41,679 --> 00:24:43,039 because hello, they've got to answer to 667 00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,120 to shareholders, right, about how 668 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:46,640 they're doing things, right? So this is 669 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,080 why Target's a little bit in trouble 670 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,760 right now and a few other companies like 671 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,840 that that you've made decisions that are 672 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,480 now impacting the bottom line and we own 673 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,720 part of you. So now you need to come 674 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,240 talk to us about what you just did and 675 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,000 who who thought about this. Right. 676 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,159 Exactly. So companies are being called 677 00:25:02,159 --> 00:25:03,840 on the carpet and have to be and have 678 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,919 that's the nature of being publicly 679 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:08,400 traded, right? You know, Nicole, it 680 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,760 makes me think about if you were because 681 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:12,720 you know, most people are not 682 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,120 entrepreneurs. Uh, of course, and it's a 683 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:17,360 and it's it is a different life and I 684 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,279 don't say everybody should be an 685 00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:20,799 entrepreneur, 686 00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:22,720 but I firmly believe everybody needs to 687 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,480 have an entrepreneurial mindset where 688 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,400 you are to your point. Right. So, this 689 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,039 is you have to always be learning. uh 690 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:30,559 you have to understand the business 691 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:32,080 because if you do that you'll be much 692 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:33,600 better positioned right and you can't 693 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,120 just see your role as I just do my job 694 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,000 my job is limited to this and you can't 695 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,919 think one-dimensional anymore in a in a 696 00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:43,679 fourdimensional world like things are 697 00:25:43,679 --> 00:25:46,400 moving so quick things are you need to 698 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,799 in order to make yourself um stand out 699 00:25:48,799 --> 00:25:50,159 you have to do the things you're saying 700 00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:52,880 right uh but we I think there's there is 701 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,480 a struggle right getting back to both 702 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,480 job seekers it is very difficult 703 00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,919 specifically for people that have 704 00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:02,240 thought a certain way for a long time to 705 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,000 be able to change the method of their 706 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,000 thinking. Yeah. This is this feels 707 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,240 difficult to me. Maybe I'm wrong. No. Um 708 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,360 it's not. How do you advise uh you know 709 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,080 your clients who have been fixated on 710 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,240 this is how the world works. If I do 711 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,760 this, I work hard at my job. I 712 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,200 understand my role. I should be okay. 713 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,880 Right? And that's obviously not the 714 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,520 case. um if I have this I've had all 715 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,039 these um career uh opportunities, I've 716 00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:33,279 uh built my career, I have experience, I 717 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:35,120 should be able to easily find a job. We 718 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,440 know that's not the truth. Number one, 719 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,880 how do you guide them towards that 720 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,360 mindset? And then the second question is 721 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,279 what's the most impactful thing they can 722 00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:46,000 do to begin to make the transition from 723 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,440 where they were to where they need to 724 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,559 be? Yeah, this is a great question. Um 725 00:26:50,559 --> 00:26:52,720 there is a quote that honestly I've been 726 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,120 quoting for years and I don't think it's 727 00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:57,760 ever been more true than today. Um 728 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,520 there's a futurist by the name of Alvin 729 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,840 Tooffler and he stated that the 730 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,960 illiterate of the 21st century will not 731 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,440 be those who cannot read or write but 732 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,919 those who cannot learn, 733 00:27:09,919 --> 00:27:11,840 unlearn 734 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,400 and relearn. Right. Oh, that's a that's 735 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,880 a mic drop moment. That is good. Yeah. 736 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,159 Yeah. like it is it's authentically 737 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:22,400 um impossible 738 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,880 in the long term. I'm not talking about 739 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,720 in the next two to five years. I'm 740 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,919 talking about in the next you know 8 to 741 00:27:29,919 --> 00:27:34,240 20 years to maintain even your sanity 742 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,960 let alone your marketability if you are 743 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,919 unwilling to embrace a growth mindset. 744 00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:44,960 Right? I would also say it's a pivot 745 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,880 from becoming I'm not saying that 746 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,320 there's not a place to become a subject 747 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,320 matter expert in a particular area 748 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,600 because I think that is the case right I 749 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,039 really do I really do think there is 750 00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:57,360 that however in addition to being a 751 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,440 subject matter expert in an area you 752 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,240 must also start to generate a certain or 753 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,600 develop a certain mindset that is 754 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,919 curious and that is open to learning you 755 00:28:05,919 --> 00:28:07,919 want to think about this tech the tools 756 00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:09,600 and the skill sets that are needed in 757 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,039 the marketplace today. That's another 758 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:12,880 major trend that's happening and it's 759 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,559 been happening for a while but we're 760 00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:16,399 seeing much more of a pivot towards it 761 00:28:16,399 --> 00:28:19,279 even now this side of you know open AI 762 00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:21,520 and Gen AI really taking to the 763 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:22,960 forefront which is a skills-based 764 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,919 economy right that means you literally 765 00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:28,799 might see something in a job posting and 766 00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:31,440 you got 60% of the requirements required 767 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,960 skills and there may be two or three 768 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:34,080 things on there that you don't really 769 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,200 know a whole lot about but you're 770 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,640 noticing that every time you look for a 771 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,559 job with this title they're asking now 772 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:40,320 for these particular two or three 773 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,240 technologies. What does that mean? 774 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,520 Instead of thinking, "Oh gosh, let me 775 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:44,799 throw up my hands. I don't know how to 776 00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:46,240 do that." You go find yourself a 777 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,559 LinkedIn learning course, you go find a 778 00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:51,520 UDI course, you go spend a weekend on, 779 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,200 you know, YouTube and do some YouTube 780 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,760 university and educate yourself enough 781 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,120 about that thing so that you can have an 782 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:58,720 intelligent conversation. I think my 783 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,399 average tech professional understands 784 00:29:00,399 --> 00:29:01,760 that to a certain extent because 785 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,440 certifications have been a thing for 786 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,679 quite some time and they unlock higher 787 00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:07,520 levels of salary and responsibility 788 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,279 based on certain certifications you have 789 00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:12,559 right um however the average working 790 00:29:12,559 --> 00:29:14,960 professional um that used to be that 791 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,960 mindset of growth mindset that a that 792 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,399 mindset of upskilling myself on a 793 00:29:20,399 --> 00:29:23,279 regular basis that has been has been 794 00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:25,200 something that's been not new um it's 795 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,480 been around and the people that I love 796 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,480 to work with we talk about that and have 797 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,919 talked about that for a decade but now 798 00:29:29,919 --> 00:29:33,360 it's becoming table stakes. Absolutely. 799 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,919 Absolutely. Like everybody from you know 800 00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:37,919 all those I don't agree with the 801 00:29:37,919 --> 00:29:40,080 approach of what's happening at the with 802 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,720 the everything at the at u at 1600 803 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,559 Pennsylvania 804 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:46,799 and how they're going about it is I 805 00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:48,960 think is inhumane. Yeah. But there's no 806 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,880 question even at federal, state, and 807 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,640 local levels we're gonna have to 808 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,480 reimagine services. We're going to have 809 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,039 to reimagine how we um how we serve the 810 00:29:57,039 --> 00:29:59,440 public. uh uh those who those who work 811 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,000 in the public sector too also are going 812 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,240 to have to learn more and learn faster 813 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,840 and some do but that's going to be the 814 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,399 requirement for everyone right everybody 815 00:30:08,399 --> 00:30:09,919 right and this is because this is the 816 00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:13,120 world as it is right and so you know 817 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,679 there's a study um by Dell I think and 818 00:30:15,679 --> 00:30:18,720 several others that that that that shows 819 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,039 that by 2030 85% of the jobs in 2030 820 00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:25,679 don't actually exist right now right so 821 00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:27,919 hold on to that that's pretty pretty 822 00:30:27,919 --> 00:30:29,440 wild. 823 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,320 Even if that's an exaggeration and it's 824 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240 not 80 to 85%. A large portion of jobs 825 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,399 are changing right now. And so you got 826 00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:40,080 two options. Pretend like it doesn't 827 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,520 exist or figure out how to pivot and 828 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:44,960 change with the times. And there's so 829 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,120 many tools to do it right now. You just 830 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,440 said a LinkedIn learning. Google offers 831 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,440 a free course. I think Microsoft offers 832 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,679 a free course for AI. I think even MIT 833 00:30:53,679 --> 00:30:56,320 and Stanford offer all types of free 834 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,960 courses for it. It is not outside of 835 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,360 your capability. You just have to get 836 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,679 your mindset right and you have to learn 837 00:31:03,679 --> 00:31:06,000 by doing. Like I how I how I'm learning 838 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,520 AI, how I've learned AI, how I've 839 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,600 learned everything technical is that I 840 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,200 sit down, listen, and then I go do it. 841 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,039 It's really that's really it. Like it's 842 00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:14,559 not rocket science. It's you got to just 843 00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:17,200 sit down and go do it. And you have the 844 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,880 ability to do it. You just have to 845 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,880 decide to do it. And and we need more 846 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,279 people to do it. to build right now. Uh 847 00:31:23,279 --> 00:31:24,960 so really appreciate the work you're 848 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,600 doing. So what I'm curious uh what do 849 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,039 you think is the biggest kind of 850 00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:31,279 misconception right now with job seekers 851 00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:33,360 that's happening right now? Yeah. Yeah. 852 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,039 I think um gosh that there's there's 853 00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:40,039 several. 854 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,279 Let me try to narrow it down to a few. 855 00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:46,159 Um, someone that's brand new in the job 856 00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:48,240 search that maybe hasn't had to do an 857 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,399 external job search in the past might 858 00:31:50,399 --> 00:31:53,279 think that the best and only way to find 859 00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:57,120 a job is to um get their resume done and 860 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,600 start applying using LinkedIn and the 861 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,399 job boards um Indeed and LinkedIn. And 862 00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:04,480 it is it is a great strategy. In fact, I 863 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,880 it's a foundational job search strategy 864 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,279 to anyone that's in in job search um 865 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,200 because here's what job boards do. They 866 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,200 allow you to see what the marketplace is 867 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,679 calling your type of role today. Y it 868 00:32:15,679 --> 00:32:17,679 allows you to understand the vocabulary 869 00:32:17,679 --> 00:32:19,200 that the marketplace is using to 870 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,519 describe your skill set today, right? 871 00:32:21,519 --> 00:32:22,720 Which if you've been in you haven't been 872 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,799 in the open market in 10 years or five 873 00:32:24,799 --> 00:32:26,880 years, you may not realize that what 874 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,679 used to be called um you know web 875 00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:31,840 designer is now UX design is now some 876 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,880 other new designer, right? Um so you may 877 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,480 not recognize that shift. Um however um 878 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,000 so that's a good thing. However, 879 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,080 everybody's doing that. So, if you are 880 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,320 going into a job search thinking that 881 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,159 the way I'm going to find a job is only 882 00:32:46,159 --> 00:32:48,240 and solely by going through the job 883 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,559 boards, then that's a wrong way to go 884 00:32:50,559 --> 00:32:52,960 about doing it. I think the strategies 885 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,519 for how I recommend my clients find 886 00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:56,960 jobs, they haven't changed. There are 887 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,519 six core job search strategies that 888 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:02,640 anybody that's listening can and could 889 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,240 possibly be using for their job search. 890 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,240 And dependent upon your personality, 891 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,640 dependent upon um the market and the 892 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,440 industry that you're targeting, 893 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,279 two or three of them, most people should 894 00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:15,120 be doing at least two, maybe three job 895 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,960 search strategies. Do we have time for 896 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,960 me to just mention those six briefly 897 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,799 now? We do. Yeah, we have time. Yeah, we 898 00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:23,840 have No. Okay, cool. Let me just mention 899 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,000 them briefly because I find that too 900 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,399 many people get focused on one thing and 901 00:33:28,399 --> 00:33:30,399 not enough of the others. So, in no 902 00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:31,679 particular order, the first one I've 903 00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:33,760 just mentioned is thirdparty job boards. 904 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,200 That's your Indeed. That's your 905 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,399 LinkedIn. That is your uh you know Zip 906 00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:40,880 Recruiter, Glass Door, you know, Dice, 907 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,720 what whatever your job boards that 908 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,399 you're using that you're finding jobs. 909 00:33:44,399 --> 00:33:46,000 Even Google, which most people don't 910 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,360 seem to realize, if you type the job 911 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,840 title, you type the city and the word 912 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,919 job that you're looking for, Google 913 00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:53,840 itself uses the power of the Google 914 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,080 search engine to act as an an 915 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,120 aggregator, pulling jobs from all over 916 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,120 the internet and presenting them to you. 917 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,720 So, that's another one that people seem 918 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:04,480 to forget about, but all of those are 919 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,640 the same thing. Third-party job boards, 920 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,119 right? Um, and that's great until 921 00:34:09,119 --> 00:34:11,200 they're not, right? So, that's number 922 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,639 one. There are strategies and techniques 923 00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,800 I teach to make that more efficient um 924 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,359 for somebody when a job is posted 925 00:34:17,359 --> 00:34:19,760 matters right now. Um, where you f found 926 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,599 the job matters right now. Using it to 927 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:22,960 source the job, but not necessarily 928 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:24,480 using it to apply for the job, that 929 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,320 matters right now, right? You find it on 930 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:27,440 the job board, you go to the web 931 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,440 website. Anyways, lots of things on that 932 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,839 one, but that's only one. Most people 933 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:33,919 use that only. The second one that we're 934 00:34:33,919 --> 00:34:35,679 talking more about now and I'm grateful 935 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,079 for is networking, right? Networking is 936 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:40,320 a job search strategy, particularly for 937 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,040 my tech tech professionals right now. 938 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,000 Um, networking is a job search strategy 939 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,720 and a care and a career boosting 940 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:51,440 long-term strategy that people 941 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,159 underestimate underestimate really 942 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:56,320 underestimate. And if I want you to dive 943 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,480 on that, don't forget your point. No, I 944 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,640 do want to say this and especially 945 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,839 talking to the younger generation. Um, 946 00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:05,920 you really have to learn at your earlier 947 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,000 career, you need to actually, this is 948 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,760 going to sound counterintuitive, but 949 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,320 early in your career, you need to value 950 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,119 relationships and building them and 951 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,880 learning over money. That sounds weird. 952 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:20,160 Yeah. And they're like, "No, I need to 953 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,640 get paid as much as possible right now." 954 00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:24,240 I get that. And I'm not saying you don't 955 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:25,760 need money and you need you need to have 956 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,920 you need to make money. However, for you 957 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,240 to get that money, you have to develop 958 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,400 some level of relationships where people 959 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,280 actually learn to trust you, rely on 960 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,040 you, understand the value that you bring 961 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,400 and that you actually want to bring 962 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,119 value, not just take. And then you got 963 00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:42,720 to develop some skill sets, right? Like 964 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:44,560 it's it's that takes learning. And so 965 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,880 like, you know, I I' I've seen this 966 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920 challenge happen a lot. And you know, I 967 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,520 I love a lot of the energy. I love the 968 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,040 perspective of a lot of the younger 969 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,880 generation trying to bring balance to 970 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,520 the workforce and I agree with that. But 971 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,440 if you are in and you're talking to an 972 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,359 entrepreneur on your first job and your 973 00:36:01,359 --> 00:36:05,359 first line or your repeated line is work 974 00:36:05,359 --> 00:36:08,720 life balance when you are just starting. 975 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,800 I'm I always ask I ask people like what 976 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,640 are you balancing? I'm just asking 977 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,480 I feel like because they a lot of times 978 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,680 they don't have kids or anything else. 979 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,280 I'm like like I'm just I'm just trying 980 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,560 to understand but that's all I Okay, I 981 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,079 digress. But go ahead, Nicole. You you 982 00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,320 were on your 983 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,880 I I Oh my Oh my So I I have a a a client 984 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,160 that I was working with earlier this 985 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,760 year. We had a conversation and he's in 986 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,480 that, you know, 30s age range. Um and we 987 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,440 we we had a lot of conversation around 988 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,240 um the idea of having a professional 989 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,960 network and that generation for all 990 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:54,880 kinds of reasons like I follow trends. 991 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,720 If you haven't learned this from me, I 992 00:36:56,720 --> 00:36:57,839 kind of watch what's happened 993 00:36:57,839 --> 00:36:59,920 historically and see what's repeating, 994 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:01,680 what's new and how we can leverage the 995 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,040 past to see what's happening in the 996 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:04,800 future. Sure. And I look at it from 997 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,560 outside of sectors. So we have this 998 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,119 whole kind of pay me what you owe me 999 00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:11,359 kind of energy that has come out uh for 1000 00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:13,520 the the the younger generation, right? 1001 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,880 Not a bad mindset in theory because they 1002 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,920 saw their parents and sacrifice time 1003 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,720 with them, right? You were not at my at 1004 00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:24,320 my at my football game or at my 1005 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,000 basketball game or at my cheer cheer 1006 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,400 meet because you were at that job, 1007 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,400 right? And I'm not and they still laid 1008 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,760 you off, right? 1009 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,599 they're coming from that energy and then 1010 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:37,839 they're seeing, okay, they just saw 1011 00:37:37,839 --> 00:37:39,440 front and center, I went and did all the 1012 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,040 things and I still couldn't find a job 1013 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,800 or whatever the case may be in those 1014 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,560 early years. So, they they have that 1015 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,160 kind of mindset and then of course 1016 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,480 popular culture with songs like better 1017 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,040 have my money, right? you know, like 1018 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,119 that we we laugh it and we and we joke 1019 00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:56,960 at it, but like the the ramifications 1020 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,119 are you go into the workplace and you 1021 00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:01,119 start expecting that same sort of energy 1022 00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:03,280 like I'm going to, you know, toeto toe 1023 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:04,560 you on this and if you don't have it, 1024 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,720 I'm out. And that's cool, but what 1025 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:07,920 you're what you're not doing is 1026 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,200 collecting that collateral over the 1027 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,480 years. So when the time comes that you 1028 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,760 do actually need a reference, you do 1029 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,280 need sponsorship. You do need someone to 1030 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,280 mentor you or someone to call just to 1031 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,119 ask a question. You don't have that 1032 00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:19,359 because transactional relationships are 1033 00:38:19,359 --> 00:38:23,200 transactional in both ways, right? So if 1034 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:23,920 that's if we're going to be 1035 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,800 transactional, we're going to be 1036 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,560 holistically transactional. So please do 1037 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,560 not be mad when I don't not respond to 1038 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,480 your LinkedIn inbox because all you 1039 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,400 wanted was to clock that to to to punch 1040 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,320 that that clock and to leave. Yep. I 1041 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,920 don't know you. You didn't build a 1042 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,320 relationship with me. Yeah. No, it's 1043 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,520 it's it's it is the truth. And that and 1044 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,680 that also goes to relationship of not 1045 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,480 only people you work with um people you 1046 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:47,760 don't work with and the people you work 1047 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:49,520 with there's also levels of relationship 1048 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,440 like if I have to like being an 1049 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,440 entrepreneur you know and having and 1050 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,680 having staff you know you've seen people 1051 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,359 that are like okay let me do I see this 1052 00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:02,320 as it it's it's 5:00 cut off done I'm 1053 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:03,680 done with this not even if they have 1054 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,520 nothing else to do right like and and 1055 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,920 there's like all right I'm done I bring 1056 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,240 in this amount and no more and That's 1057 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,240 all right. The problem with that is that 1058 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,160 if that's the mindset, an ecosystem 1059 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,480 means that if you just take from it, it 1060 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,680 doesn't build especially as an 1061 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,040 entrepreneur and a small business. So 1062 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,040 that goes to understanding like as a job 1063 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,079 seeker now and as a working person, it 1064 00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:26,160 is very important that you understand 1065 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:27,839 that you try to seek to bring value. 1066 00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:29,440 Doesn't mean you you you don't you 1067 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,400 ignore people if they're trying to 1068 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,320 exploit you, but I think there's also 1069 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,400 some overreaction 1070 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,480 and misunderstanding about what it 1071 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,880 takes. like there is some level of 1072 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,640 building relationships and paying dues 1073 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,720 that you have to go through that we all 1074 00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:44,320 have to go through that we've all gone 1075 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,000 through and there's also nothing wrong 1076 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,839 with that. There's I think this this 1077 00:39:47,839 --> 00:39:51,520 this overfocus on balance has bringing 1078 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,119 us out of balance into what it actually 1079 00:39:53,119 --> 00:39:55,119 takes to become successful in what it 1080 00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,280 always has taken. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a 1081 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,200 lot of hard work and a lot of sacrifice. 1082 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,560 You know, you can have it all just not 1083 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,800 at the same time. Nope. Nope. Not at the 1084 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,720 same time. And I wish I wish that was 1085 00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:07,520 understood more. Um, but we could we 1086 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:08,880 could talk about that a lot. I want to 1087 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,200 make sure I share the other four 1088 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,359 strategies. Um, so you got two. The 1089 00:40:13,359 --> 00:40:14,560 first two were what again? Let's just 1090 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,720 recap those. Third party job boards 1091 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:19,920 number one. Um, networking. Networking 1092 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,240 is number two. Number two. And the third 1093 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:23,920 party job boards aren't as effective, 1094 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,160 but they help tell you the landscape and 1095 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,440 the language of currently what's 1096 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:28,880 happening. Okay. What are the other four 1097 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,640 strategies? 1098 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,200 Um, the the the third one is um 1099 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:34,720 recruiters. Working with recruiters, 1100 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:36,320 right? third party recruiters at a 1101 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,000 staffing firm, a temp agency, an 1102 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,680 executive search firm, ped hunter, all 1103 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,119 the same thing, just different versions 1104 00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:43,040 of that externally. You're not their 1105 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,560 customer. The company that's paying 1106 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,720 them, which is the company you want to 1107 00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:48,160 ultimately work for, is their customer. 1108 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560 You are a resource to them, right? Each 1109 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,839 one of these strategies, there's pros 1110 00:40:51,839 --> 00:40:54,320 and cons to um but that's another one. 1111 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,000 In the past, I think our tech, my tech 1112 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,800 professionals have relied more on on um 1113 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,640 an inreach, right? So recruiters were 1114 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,359 reaching into them and the first thing 1115 00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:04,880 that most tech professionals did was go 1116 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,319 out and try to reach out to recruiters 1117 00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:07,520 and they're not getting calls back 1118 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:08,640 because everybody's reaching out to 1119 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,480 those recruiters now, right? So if you 1120 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:11,760 didn't have a relationship with them in 1121 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,440 the past and the recruiters are trying 1122 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,839 to pay their bills too because guess how 1123 00:41:15,839 --> 00:41:17,760 recruiters get paid by placing people 1124 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,040 like you. And if they're not placing 1125 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:20,560 people like you because their customers 1126 00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,839 are laying off 20% of their developers, 1127 00:41:23,839 --> 00:41:25,119 they're not getting the same checks they 1128 00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:26,640 used to get. So they're trying to buy 1129 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,280 the eggs too that you're trying to buy. 1130 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,359 It's all everything is connected which 1131 00:41:31,359 --> 00:41:33,440 is why we cannot look at this thing from 1132 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,680 just a a siloed approach to it. We have 1133 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,119 to really look at it holistically. 1134 00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,160 Anyways, so recruiters um the fourth 1135 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,240 strategy is something called target 1136 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,640 company list um where you identify a set 1137 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,839 of criteria that make sense to you for 1138 00:41:47,839 --> 00:41:49,520 the type of company you want to work 1139 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,839 for. Right? The criteria could be all 1140 00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:53,839 sorts of things. Direct competitors your 1141 00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:55,440 com your family uses their products, 1142 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,839 goods and services. It could be um 1143 00:41:57,839 --> 00:42:00,640 they're a small company. They 1144 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,079 um regularly show up on the 100 best 1145 00:42:02,079 --> 00:42:04,079 companies to work for in your city. 1146 00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:05,599 Whatever the criteria is, you set the 1147 00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:08,240 criteria first, number one. Then number 1148 00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:09,680 two, you look for the companies that 1149 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:12,079 match that criteria. 1150 00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:13,440 This is a little bit different than most 1151 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:14,640 people the way most people say, "Oh, 1152 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,720 build a target company list." I teach my 1153 00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:18,880 clients this because quite frankly, if I 1154 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,880 just say, "Give me a list of your top 20 1155 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,400 companies." Everybody gives me the same 1156 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,200 15 companies. Everybody. It's the 1157 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,440 companies that are front and center, 1158 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,560 good or bad, right? I can't tell you how 1159 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,800 many people that I've spoken with that 1160 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,480 have a particular culture that they want 1161 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,079 to work with in an organization and then 1162 00:42:36,079 --> 00:42:37,760 they give me a list of a certain group 1163 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,839 of fang companies and I'm like, not 1164 00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:41,280 around there, partner. Like, not around 1165 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:42,160 there. Like, you're not going to get 1166 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,720 that. Not that it boo. You don't want 1167 00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:46,240 that. You don't don't want what you 1168 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:48,560 don't want. So, think about what you 1169 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,640 actually want and then look for 1170 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,640 companies that are doing that. There are 1171 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:54,560 plenty of companies that are making more 1172 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,240 than enough money to pay you very well 1173 00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:57,359 that you've never heard of. You know 1174 00:42:57,359 --> 00:42:58,319 why? Because they just do their 1175 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:00,240 business. Yep. They're not in the 1176 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:01,760 headlines every five minute. They're not 1177 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,760 on LinkedIn news every 3 seconds being 1178 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,359 talked about. Yeah. You can tell me more 1179 00:43:05,359 --> 00:43:06,960 about Nvidia, but who are the companies 1180 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,560 that supply them? Who are the companies 1181 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,480 that they're working with that have the 1182 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,160 money because Nvidia is one of their 1183 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,880 major contracts? Absolutely. Absolutely. 1184 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,400 Yeah. The suppliers behind the scene is 1185 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,839 a huge huge industry in that. Forgotten. 1186 00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:21,839 Forgotten all the time. So I can talk a 1187 00:43:21,839 --> 00:43:23,440 lot about that. I teach target company 1188 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,960 list strategy in four steps, but those 1189 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,240 are the first two that are the most 1190 00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,400 critical. Set your criteria and then 1191 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,640 find the companies. So we've talked 1192 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,880 about four of them so far. Um the fifth 1193 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,440 strategy that I like to to consider is 1194 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,680 actually contracting. Contracting is a 1195 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,839 subset of recruiter strategy. When I say 1196 00:43:39,839 --> 00:43:42,319 contracting, what I mean is I am very 1197 00:43:42,319 --> 00:43:45,040 clear on my skill set. And I am going to 1198 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,359 now offer this particular skill set as a 1199 00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:49,760 gun for hire, if you will, to a company 1200 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,560 that has a short-term or midterm need. A 1201 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:54,000 short-term need could be three to six 1202 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,240 months. Midterm could be six to a year. 1203 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,079 Some companies even will do longer term 1204 00:43:58,079 --> 00:43:59,839 contracts. If you play your cards right, 1205 00:43:59,839 --> 00:44:01,599 and if you are clear on your your 1206 00:44:01,599 --> 00:44:03,280 subject matter expertise, this is why 1207 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,040 going back to what we said earlier, can 1208 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,200 add value. You can step into a company 1209 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,400 with limited ramp up and actually create 1210 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,000 value for that company for this 1211 00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,160 short-term engagement. There's two 1212 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,920 things that come from that. Number one, 1213 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,160 they get to kick the tires on you and 1214 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:19,839 you get to kick the tires on them to see 1215 00:44:19,839 --> 00:44:21,440 if they're crazy and they get to see if 1216 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,359 you're crazy. If you are good at what 1217 00:44:23,359 --> 00:44:24,640 you do and there's a need, they will 1218 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,640 keep you on for other things. The other 1219 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,400 thing that benefits for that is that you 1220 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,560 also keep your skills sharp. You make 1221 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,079 sure if you've been in a longer job 1222 00:44:32,079 --> 00:44:34,000 search, finding a contract can actually 1223 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,400 help you to land an opportunity that you 1224 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,400 may not went out. Went out. Move the 1225 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:39,920 questions down too. Yeah, I don't know 1226 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:41,680 why it's doing that. Go ahead. So, make 1227 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,400 sure to mark that part. Go ahead. Yeah. 1228 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,680 So if you are able to find a contract 1229 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,079 that makes sense for your background, 1230 00:44:50,079 --> 00:44:51,599 you're you're getting your skills your 1231 00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:55,040 your skill set is is is being cultivated 1232 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,800 in that environment and possibly even 1233 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,160 testing new skills that you are picking 1234 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,920 up because you are learning, unlearning, 1235 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:01,280 and relearning while you're in 1236 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,200 transition. It also can extend your 1237 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,920 financial runway, right? Um lots of 1238 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:06,960 things, but they're negatives to 1239 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,800 contracts. Again, pros and cons to all 1240 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,520 of them. Um the sixth strategy that I 1241 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,280 like to talk about this is either going 1242 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:16,720 to work or it's not going to work for 1243 00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:18,800 people. It's called boomerang, right? 1244 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,560 This is works best when you have had a 1245 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:21,520 career where you've worked with 1246 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:22,880 different types of companies over the 1247 00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,400 years and you can look back at the 1248 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:25,760 companies you've worked with in the past 1249 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,319 and you can find a company that can I 1250 00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:30,400 boomerang back to a company that I 1251 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,160 worked with in the past at a higher 1252 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,400 level or at a slightly different skill 1253 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,160 set that I have because I've grown over 1254 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,240 the years. Clearly that only works if 1255 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:41,920 you did good work there, right? If you 1256 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,520 if the company and the industry that 1257 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,440 they're in is viable, right? Because 1258 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,440 some industries are no longer viable, 1259 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,079 i.e. the eight track label creation 1260 00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:51,520 company, right? That that's not a thing 1261 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:57,040 anymore. Yeah. Right. Um and do I um do 1262 00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,280 they have a policy of hiring people 1263 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,560 back? Right. um slight little adjustment 1264 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,640 to something and I think it's important 1265 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,200 for for I think your your audience to 1266 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:08,240 listen to especially if they're 1267 00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:10,240 contemplating a proactive job search or 1268 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:13,680 they are out of work right now. Um one 1269 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,280 of the things that our current economic 1270 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,040 environment is doing as it relates to 1271 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,359 how hiring managers, recruiters and 1272 00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:21,599 leaders are thinking about talent is 1273 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:25,280 they are more likely to invest their 1274 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,839 their they want to lower the risk. It is 1275 00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:30,160 expensive for a company to make a bad 1276 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,560 hire or a mishhire. And when you talk 1277 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,880 about a world where we've got AI tools 1278 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:37,200 that are making it harder for a 1279 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,800 recruiter, right, because I've sat in 1280 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:40,560 the recruiter seat, I've sat in the HR 1281 00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,000 professional seat, and I have sat in the 1282 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,240 hiring manager seat, right? So, I'm 1283 00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:45,599 doing everything I can to discern 1284 00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:46,960 whether the time I'm going to invest in 1285 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,280 you for the next two to three months to 1286 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,920 get you to 70% of what I need you to be 1287 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,000 doing, am I going to see the return on 1288 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,920 that in six months? And we've got AI 1289 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,599 tools that make it harder for the person 1290 00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:59,599 sitting in this seat today to discern 1291 00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,359 whether you actually thought that or you 1292 00:47:01,359 --> 00:47:02,480 were just reading something that chat 1293 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,359 GPT gave you. Exactly. No, preach. 1294 00:47:05,359 --> 00:47:08,480 Preach. Listen. Listen. So, here's 1295 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:10,560 what's happening, right? The recruiter, 1296 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,079 the hiring manager, that leadership 1297 00:47:12,079 --> 00:47:13,839 team, they're leaning more into 1298 00:47:13,839 --> 00:47:16,000 relationship recruiting than perhaps in 1299 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,200 the past, right? because they want and 1300 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,880 and even some of your candidates, I see 1301 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,079 this more in my tech industry 1302 00:47:22,079 --> 00:47:24,079 professionals, they will talk about the 1303 00:47:24,079 --> 00:47:26,000 fact that they are going through maybe 1304 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,920 more and greater rounds um of the 1305 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:31,680 testing process here in like seven, 1306 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,119 eight, nine interview. I'm like what? 1307 00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:35,920 Listen, I talked with a candidate this 1308 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:39,680 week um and they are in um sales 1309 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,680 enablement and she was saying, "Yeah, 1310 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,920 each one of these I'm doing these like 1311 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,960 five or six rounds." And I'm just like, 1312 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,359 wow. Right. But she's mo mostly for SAS 1313 00:47:49,359 --> 00:47:51,680 companies, right? And they want to make 1314 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,400 sure like you're not just allowing some 1315 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:56,560 AI tool to produce this presentation. 1316 00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:57,680 Like you actually have put some thought 1317 00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,040 into it and we want to test it in 1318 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,800 multiple ways. That's also why you're 1319 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,960 seeing the increase in the application 1320 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,440 process of the annoying applications 1321 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,440 where you're getting open fields where 1322 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,119 you have to answer test question 1323 00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:11,520 textbased questions in some of the that 1324 00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,599 because they want to stop you from using 1325 00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,720 tools like lazy apply which is an AI 1326 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,640 tool that allows you to quote unquote 1327 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,280 apply in your sleep. Yeah. Side note, if 1328 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,520 anybody is listening and can I I long 1329 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,040 for the day where one of these tools 1330 00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,040 that are promising candidates that they 1331 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,280 can make the application process more 1332 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,520 effective and apply on their behalf. I I 1333 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:33,280 I long for the day to see that give a 1334 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:34,880 true return on investment in terms of 1335 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,640 actually getting jobs. I'm not seeing it 1336 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,240 yet. I hope for it. I hope for the 1337 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,240 technology to get better, but these 1338 00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,079 tools are not yet doing it. And the 1339 00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:43,920 people that are most likely to lean into 1340 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,200 those tools, they are being very active, 1341 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,599 but it is not productive. 1342 00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:52,000 M right. So, you're doing a lot. You've 1343 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:53,839 applied to 400 jobs this week while you 1344 00:48:53,839 --> 00:48:55,839 were out playing, you know, tennis. 1345 00:48:55,839 --> 00:48:57,839 Okay, great. I'm so glad that you 1346 00:48:57,839 --> 00:49:00,319 applied to those 400 jobs. 1347 00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:02,559 Awesome. Awesome. However, what's your 1348 00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:05,520 ROI on that? Yeah, I mean, there's this 1349 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,200 goes to the limitation of relying on AI, 1350 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,440 right? And algorithms. Algorithms think 1351 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,520 differently than we do. They process 1352 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,839 differently than we do. And there are 1353 00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:17,599 some things that they won't that that it 1354 00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:19,440 won't pick up that we as humans will 1355 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,040 pick up. And you have to you have to put 1356 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,200 the the nuances where the real 1357 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,359 opportunity for AI actually is not in 1358 00:49:25,359 --> 00:49:28,079 the just mass reproduce. Right. So if 1359 00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:30,160 you don't have any thoughtfulness like 1360 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,839 you said those you you were very 1361 00:49:31,839 --> 00:49:35,280 intentional and and very uh thoughtful 1362 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:37,680 about the steps one can do and if you 1363 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,359 don't if you don't have a process for 1364 00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:40,720 it, you're you're you're going to lose 1365 00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:43,040 nowadays. Now AI can amplify that stuff 1366 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,599 but it can't replace what you have to do 1367 00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:46,880 because guess what let's say you even 1368 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,720 does work Nicole you get the interview 1369 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:50,559 then then they start interviewing you 1370 00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:52,240 and then it's like once they ask you 1371 00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:53,839 these questions you come back with a 1372 00:49:53,839 --> 00:49:56,480 blank face you know you got to go to 1373 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:57,760 chat GPT in the middle of the interview 1374 00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,040 like what you going to do like you got 1375 00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,119 to actually be able to have a dynamic uh 1376 00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:03,119 conversation and there are tools that 1377 00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:05,440 are doing that as well as we speak today 1378 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,839 there are tools that are being sold as a 1379 00:50:07,839 --> 00:50:09,280 tool that you can have up next to your 1380 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,280 virtual interview and when they ask the 1381 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,040 question you can either type it in or it 1382 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:14,640 automatically is listening and then 1383 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,440 it'll give you a prompt right so are 1384 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,280 particularly companies that are yes yes 1385 00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,880 it is used it is being used today so 1386 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,880 when I say coming back to what I said a 1387 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:26,160 few moments ago the person that is 1388 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,079 sitting in the recruiter the hiring 1389 00:50:28,079 --> 00:50:31,280 manager that seat they are becoming more 1390 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:34,480 likely to rely on referrals from their 1391 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,880 current employees they are more likely 1392 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,040 to try to grow somebody inside the 1393 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,440 organization and you know go out here in 1394 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,119 the wild and get somebody off the street 1395 00:50:43,119 --> 00:50:44,559 that they don't know. So if you do not 1396 00:50:44,559 --> 00:50:46,240 have a networking strategy in your job 1397 00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,119 search pocketbook right now or your your 1398 00:50:49,119 --> 00:50:51,440 back pocket, you are positioning 1399 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,000 yourself to work harder. In fact, I'm 1400 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,359 going to tell you something. If right 1401 00:50:55,359 --> 00:50:56,640 now when I'm working with somebody that 1402 00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,640 has over 15 years of professional 1403 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,960 experience, that is one of the number 1404 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,400 one things that we're just we're 1405 00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:03,599 cracking down on that. Okay, what does 1406 00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:05,200 your networking strategy look like? And 1407 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,720 you've got to customize it based on the 1408 00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:08,960 person's personality, right? Um, 1409 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,800 however, it can be done and it 1410 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,119 unfortunately or fortunately must be 1411 00:51:13,119 --> 00:51:14,720 done if you want to shorten the amount 1412 00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:16,559 of time it takes to land your next job. 1413 00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:18,160 Yeah. So, you know, I want to get to 1414 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,640 some uh wrap-up final questions, but one 1415 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,480 final followup with that though. There 1416 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,960 everybody's not a natural 1417 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,359 extrovert like you and I are, right? I 1418 00:51:27,359 --> 00:51:28,800 least it feels like you're an extrovert. 1419 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:30,079 Maybe I meet you in person, maybe you're 1420 00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:31,520 more introverted, but you feel like very 1421 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,760 extroverted. What do you get? What about 1422 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,440 those advice to people that aren't 1423 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,280 naturally 1424 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,200 uh you know uh that aren't naturally out 1425 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,440 there engaging with people and they 1426 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:42,720 might have to do some more thoughtful 1427 00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:44,720 work or it's harder for them 1428 00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,800 specifically to network or engage with 1429 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,640 people. How do you advise those people 1430 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,400 that may have a block or a struggle for 1431 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,520 that because I'm sure there's a lot of 1432 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:53,280 people like that too. Yeah. Yeah. 1433 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,960 Absolutely. I'm actually an ambbervert 1434 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,720 so I'm right in between. Uh and I've 1435 00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,480 been known to be an introvert whisperer. 1436 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,960 So um in first finement we have 1437 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,720 meaningful conversations about real 1438 00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:07,839 things right so um I will tell you that 1439 00:52:07,839 --> 00:52:09,280 most of the time when I'm working with 1440 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:10,559 somebody that is struggling with 1441 00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:12,400 networking it's because I have a very 1442 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,559 specific definition of networking and it 1443 00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:16,720 is um whether this is true or not 1444 00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:18,880 business cards at this networking event 1445 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,359 a lot of like shallow conversations that 1446 00:52:21,359 --> 00:52:23,200 you're having with a whole lot of people 1447 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,280 talking about nothing or sch smoozing 1448 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,599 right there's a very specific mind image 1449 00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:29,520 that those individuals tend to have 1450 00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,319 about what networking actually means. 1451 00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:34,079 Um, if you're a more quiet person, 1452 00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:35,200 you're thinking just what you said. 1453 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:36,800 You're very gregarious. You're engaging 1454 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,559 everyone in five minutes. And if I can't 1455 00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:41,440 do that, then I can't network. Yeah. Not 1456 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,160 true. Not true. Networking, the way that 1457 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,400 I like to teach it has multiple layers. 1458 00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:47,680 Yes, you have the network. The person 1459 00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,920 that can go into a conference or into a 1460 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,480 networking event and connect with, you 1461 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,000 know, 20 people and have light 1462 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,160 conversations over canipes and like 1463 00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,800 melon balls wrapped in pushcuto. Like 1464 00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,319 that's great. I'm glad you can do that, 1465 00:53:00,319 --> 00:53:04,480 right? However, networking can also be I 1466 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,079 have as an introvert maybe have gone 1467 00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:10,559 deeper with fewer people and I have let 1468 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:12,720 my work and my work ethic and my 1469 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:14,720 consistency and my ability to think 1470 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:17,680 internally before externally processing 1471 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,480 things show itself and I have built 1472 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:21,839 relationships but they're just real 1473 00:53:21,839 --> 00:53:24,559 relationships. Yeah. I don't have a 1474 00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:27,280 hundred shallow relationships. I've got 1475 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,680 10 real ones. And so what I'm going to 1476 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,520 do in my networking is I'm going to 1477 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,440 reach out to the 10 real ones. I'm going 1478 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,200 to have done some pre-work that Nicole 1479 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,680 gave me to do beforehand to prepare a 1480 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,319 networking strategy. Networking is not 1481 00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:42,480 let me just blast my resume out to 50 of 1482 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,000 my closest friends and families. Hey, 1483 00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,520 I'veorked. Hey, I'm looking for a job. 1484 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:46,720 Here's my resume. Let me know if you 1485 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:48,720 find something. Okay, that's great. But 1486 00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,200 one of those 10 people can help you. 1487 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,440 However, if you are truly executing a 1488 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,760 networking strategy, you are actually 1489 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,599 sitting down. You're asking for a 1490 00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:00,720 meeting that may be, you know, 20 to 30 1491 00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:03,839 minutes. Um, and it may be virtual or in 1492 00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:05,680 person. And you have some sort of a 1493 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:07,119 structure around what you're hoping to 1494 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:09,599 to get from that meeting. And it's 1495 00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:11,040 structured in a way that you're not 1496 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,119 asking them to find you a job or to even 1497 00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:15,119 know of a job, but you're asking for 1498 00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:17,520 guidance. You're asking for specific 1499 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,839 details. and you might be asking for 1500 00:54:19,839 --> 00:54:22,000 recommendations or referrals to who else 1501 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,160 you should talk to, right? So there 1502 00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:25,760 there's a there's a there's a there's a 1503 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,079 way to do it and it's usually the person 1504 00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:29,839 that has a block. They're thinking about 1505 00:54:29,839 --> 00:54:31,760 networking a particular way and it's a 1506 00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,599 very linear way that only works for a 1507 00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:35,280 smaller percentage of the population. 1508 00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:36,800 Yeah, I think that's that's well said. 1509 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,400 And even for those who may be naturally 1510 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:44,400 gregarious and and and and in outreach, 1511 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,200 the I think the other side of that is 1512 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,359 that if you're not doing it in a way 1513 00:54:49,359 --> 00:54:50,880 that's thoughtful and you're not and 1514 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,760 you're just talking versus actually y 1515 00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,880 listening uh versus asking questions 1516 00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,800 like that that show that you have some 1517 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,160 level of interest and that you're that 1518 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,559 you actually see that person. Uh it's 1519 00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:04,640 not as effective either, I don't think. 1520 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:06,160 So I think even even the people that can 1521 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,559 reach out to a lot of different people 1522 00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:11,280 uh you need to also hone that skill uh 1523 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:12,880 as well and the like like that's 1524 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,240 something that I've learned to get 1525 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,880 better at, right? Uh to learn how to ask 1526 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:18,559 the right questions, to learn how to be 1527 00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:22,079 a better listener, uh to uh you know be 1528 00:55:22,079 --> 00:55:24,720 intentional when I when I when I reach 1529 00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:26,640 out to people. Not that I wasn't, but 1530 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,559 you know when you've also ran for office 1531 00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:29,760 and you've met like I don't even know 1532 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:31,520 how many people like it's it becomes 1533 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,160 very hard to do it too. But I've noticed 1534 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:35,760 you make a big difference when you 1535 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,520 remember something about somebody, 1536 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,160 right? Uh and and then and initially 1537 00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:41,760 like I try to ask questions like a 1538 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,000 question I I'll ask people like, you 1539 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,359 know, like what are you working on that 1540 00:55:45,359 --> 00:55:46,480 you're passionate about? Something that 1541 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,240 they don't expect at the first time you 1542 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,079 meet them versus what do you do? Like 1543 00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:51,359 okay, that's such a such a like that's 1544 00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:53,280 such a question everybody asks. So one 1545 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,520 of one of my strategies is to come up 1546 00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,119 with a few things that other people 1547 00:55:57,119 --> 00:55:59,040 wouldn't ask. And a lot of people think 1548 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:00,960 that people are afraid to be intimate 1549 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,280 when you first meet them. But a lot of 1550 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:04,559 people are interested in telling you 1551 00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:06,000 about themselves if you ask because most 1552 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,920 people don't care about anything other 1553 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:09,119 than themselves. When you ask them, 1554 00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:11,040 people are genuinely surprised, right? I 1555 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:12,400 feel like they're like, "Oh, wow." Like, 1556 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:13,520 no one's ever asked me that. I don't 1557 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:14,640 think that's that novel of a question. 1558 00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:16,480 When I ask that to people, you know, 1559 00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,240 they they really get surprised. So, I 1560 00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:20,400 got some novel questions for you to to 1561 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,559 kind of wrap up towards the end here. 1562 00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:26,000 So, uh, okay. If the last five years of 1563 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,559 your life was a chapter in a book, what 1564 00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:32,200 would that have been about? 1565 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,200 The It would be about pivoting. It would 1566 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:38,000 be about 1567 00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,119 responding and it would be about trend 1568 00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:45,280 trend spotting, right? Um 1569 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,359 and it would also be about passion. I 1570 00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:49,680 started doing video content and actually 1571 00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,599 launched the first season of a podcast 1572 00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:53,440 when I 1573 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,520 um realized that what I had to say 1574 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,599 was more important than me learning how 1575 00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:03,040 to get the light right um or how to 1576 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:08,400 figure out the microphone or how to um 1577 00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,480 whether I was going to mess it up. 1578 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:15,200 Right. the message was greater than my 1579 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,960 insecurities about whether I could 1580 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,720 figure it out. And what nobody realizes 1581 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,520 is that you don't get to this level of 1582 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,680 the production that you have or the what 1583 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,119 you have going on unless you're willing 1584 00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:27,280 to do a trash job the first two or five 1585 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,520 episodes. Yeah. Right. You don't get to 1586 00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,799 that level unless or 10. Honestly, I was 1587 00:57:32,799 --> 00:57:34,720 gonna say 10, but I didn't. Like really 1588 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,520 like if you're not willing to do 10, 1589 00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,440 right? If you're not willing to do 10 1590 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,880 bad videos, right? 10 bad, you know, 1591 00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:44,799 YouTube shorts, you're not willing to 1592 00:57:44,799 --> 00:57:47,440 put out content that only your mom 1593 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,920 watches, 1594 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:52,640 then you know what? Quite frankly, maybe 1595 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:54,319 the message and the passion isn't big 1596 00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:57,040 enough. Right. Exactly. Um, and this 1597 00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,799 also, I think, comes back to like that 1598 00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:00,400 that having to lean into a growth 1599 00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,640 mindset. I have to have something to say 1600 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,119 to people in this in this in this 1601 00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:06,640 environment. 1602 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,400 So that's the last five years. That's 1603 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,319 what the book would be about. The last 1604 00:58:10,319 --> 00:58:12,880 five months, honestly, Rob, the book 1605 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,839 would be about one thing, emotional 1606 00:58:15,839 --> 00:58:17,839 management. 1607 00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:19,599 That's it. That's the that would be the 1608 00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:22,000 the highlight of the book because how do 1609 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:26,480 you define emotional management? Great. 1610 00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,079 Being able to set boundaries about what 1611 00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:30,480 you're going to internally consume or 1612 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:32,559 what you're going to consume mentally, 1613 00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:35,680 right? Guarding my eye gates and my ear 1614 00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,680 gates against things that I am not yet 1615 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,079 in an emotional emotionally regulated 1616 00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:43,599 place to be able to um receive in a way 1617 00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:45,520 that's going to be serve be of good of 1618 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,119 service to me or to others. And that's 1619 00:58:47,119 --> 00:58:49,440 hard. It is hard right now in the age of 1620 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,440 social media and and the craziness all 1621 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,880 day every day 10 times a day. Exactly. 1622 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,720 Realistically, right? like I've really 1623 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,040 had to just literally just in the past 1624 00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,000 five months just recognize 1625 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,040 you may be familiar with um someone 1626 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,440 named Mel Robbins. She is an author, 1627 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,359 podcaster. We all know her. She has her 1628 00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:11,119 book this year is called Let Them. Um 1629 00:59:11,119 --> 00:59:12,319 and I'm going to tell you, I feel like 1630 00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:15,280 it was the book that 2025 we didn't know 1631 00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:16,960 that we needed, but it's the message we 1632 00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,040 needed. At some point, we we're here 1633 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,200 now, right? We're here now. Like as a 1634 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,520 nation, we said, "Okay, January 6, 2021. 1635 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:26,720 Maybe that wasn't a big deal. Let's go 1636 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:28,400 ahead and do it again. And now we're 1637 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,559 here reaping the benefits of this. 1638 00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:33,119 Right. So, here we are in these streets 1639 00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,200 and 1640 00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,000 I have to just let them Yeah. I have to 1641 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,760 I have to let them let it be what it's 1642 00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,440 going to be so that we can say, "Okay, 1643 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,960 so we've done this. Now, are we finished 1644 00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,280 with this exercise? Can we move on to 1645 00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,839 something that makes sense?" or if there 1646 00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:51,440 are things that are making sense because 1647 00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:53,440 I do think somewhere in the there there 1648 00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,400 was a there is a 1649 00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,640 there's a mindset behind what the 1650 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:00,079 decisions that are being made by our 1651 01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,640 current administration and I I I get it 1652 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:05,920 on one level like how do we reduce we 1653 01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,680 cannot keep kicking the can of debt down 1654 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:13,839 the road it is not it's not sustainable 1655 01:00:13,839 --> 01:00:15,760 and we cannot keep spending money 1656 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,319 willy-nilly worrying about someone else 1657 01:00:18,319 --> 01:00:20,559 the next generation figuring it out, 1658 01:00:20,559 --> 01:00:23,760 right? I get the mindset and also how do 1659 01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,559 we do this without taxing the wealthiest 1660 01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:28,559 people because why do they have to pay 1661 01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:30,799 the bill for everybody else? I so I 1662 01:00:30,799 --> 01:00:33,440 understand the mindset, right, of why it 1663 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:34,799 is. And I feel like that's where I think 1664 01:00:34,799 --> 01:00:37,200 sometimes we forget. Yeah. Um, however, 1665 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,680 it's not the mindset, it is the process 1666 01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,520 and the way it's being done and the lack 1667 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,359 of change management and sensitivity to 1668 01:00:43,359 --> 01:00:44,240 the fact that you're dealing with 1669 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,400 humans, not robots. And the fact that 1670 01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:48,319 there is a way that things get done and 1671 01:00:48,319 --> 01:00:50,559 it doesn't get done in five seconds. No. 1672 01:00:50,559 --> 01:00:52,240 And if you do try to do it in five 1673 01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:53,680 seconds, here are where here's where we 1674 01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,920 are today. Yes. You can cause more 1675 01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,640 damage. Uh I will say this to a broader 1676 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,839 point of um protecting your emotional 1677 01:01:01,839 --> 01:01:04,799 energy and your emotional space. Um you 1678 01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:06,640 know, news has always been triggering 1679 01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,880 right before even social media, right? 1680 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,640 But news is to the brain what sugar is 1681 01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,520 to the body, right? It feels good in 1682 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,000 quick hits, but it's toxic long term. 1683 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,839 So, we have to remember that as we 1684 01:01:19,839 --> 01:01:23,920 absorb news and I think the people that 1685 01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:25,440 that are doing this understand what 1686 01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:27,119 they're doing in terms of uh sparking 1687 01:01:27,119 --> 01:01:29,040 emotion. It's a it's always been an 1688 01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:32,160 effective uh strategy for uh rallying 1689 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,440 the masses. People are easily triggered 1690 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:36,880 when they're in their feelings and when 1691 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,799 things are are framed and nothing's as 1692 01:01:38,799 --> 01:01:40,720 simple as they make it out to be. But 1693 01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:44,000 how we consume media now even more than 1694 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,359 we have in the past. 24 hours uh 24-hour 1695 01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:48,480 news when that first started was 1696 01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,720 actually triggering. Now we have 1697 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:52,480 instantaneous news, breaking news, 1698 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:53,680 breaking news, breaking news, breaking 1699 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,920 news every like nobody can absorb this 1700 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,319 stuff, right? Yeah. So you have to 1701 01:01:58,319 --> 01:02:00,160 preserving that emotional space and by 1702 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,400 the way that goes for even even people 1703 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:05,040 that enjoy what is happening. Yeah. It 1704 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,200 looks like they are going mad too. So 1705 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,640 I'm saying there's no there's no good 1706 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,480 pol there's nothing good about 1707 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,480 overabsorbing information and I don't 1708 01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,480 believe if I have to tell like advice 1709 01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:15,599 what you need to do to absorb 1710 01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:17,760 information anything you get on a quick 1711 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:22,559 hit on the internet that sparks you stop 1712 01:02:22,559 --> 01:02:26,240 because when you have fear or anger it 1713 01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,359 is not a true depiction of how you 1714 01:02:29,359 --> 01:02:32,640 actually feel or what's going on and the 1715 01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:34,400 and and the goal with that is to trigger 1716 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,880 you to not think and so Like it's 1717 01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,640 natural for us to do this. This is this 1718 01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,880 is human nature. Yeah. But we're going 1719 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:42,640 to have to work harder than ever in the 1720 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,440 age of algorithms, uh, social media when 1721 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,079 we have entities that are, uh, you know, 1722 01:02:48,079 --> 01:02:49,599 unfortunately the other side of this 1723 01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:51,040 entities that care about nothing else 1724 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,040 other than to maximize engagement. And 1725 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:54,640 that's right. Maximizing engagement 1726 01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:58,880 means currently uh, maximizing outrage, 1727 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,640 maximizing making people feel bad 1728 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,480 because that actually keeps you more in 1729 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,200 tune. So you gota you got to let them as 1730 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,040 you said and you got to let yourself be 1731 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:08,640 and let that stuff go. We can't we can't 1732 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,400 do nothing about all that all of it. You 1733 01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:12,160 got to just take care of what you can in 1734 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,200 your community. All right, more 1735 01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:14,880 questions before we wrap up here. What 1736 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,680 is an important truth you have that very 1737 01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:21,720 few people may agree with you on 1738 01:03:24,799 --> 01:03:29,680 that this too shall pass. Right. Um 1739 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:31,359 I 1740 01:03:31,359 --> 01:03:33,760 it could be the type of individual that 1741 01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:36,319 I am working with today. Um at this 1742 01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:38,640 point in my career, the vast majority of 1743 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,720 my clients are at the director, senior 1744 01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,400 director, vice president level. They are 1745 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,000 either in career transition, i.e. they 1746 01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,359 were laid off with no choice of their 1747 01:03:45,359 --> 01:03:47,280 own or they are in a leadership role 1748 01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,760 trying to figure out and develop their 1749 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:51,039 leadership skills because they are 1750 01:03:51,039 --> 01:03:52,319 leading through things that none of us 1751 01:03:52,319 --> 01:03:54,160 have seen before. Right? Those are 1752 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,319 that's who I serve. Let's talk about the 1753 01:03:56,319 --> 01:03:58,160 person in career transition. Many times 1754 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,640 that person has a financial runway of 1755 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,119 you know six months, a year, two years. 1756 01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:04,559 They may never have to worry about 1757 01:04:04,559 --> 01:04:07,280 finances. A lot of the emotional manage 1758 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:10,400 the emotional stress of job search is 1759 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:11,920 things that they are not in their 1760 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,480 reality. Um so helping someone recognize 1761 01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,319 that this too shall pass that you will 1762 01:04:16,319 --> 01:04:18,319 work again. But it will not happen if 1763 01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:20,720 going back to the earlier point, you are 1764 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,359 just being tossed to and fro based on 1765 01:04:23,359 --> 01:04:25,920 whatever headline or you know LinkedIn 1766 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,319 story you just listened to or whatever 1767 01:04:28,319 --> 01:04:30,960 the case may be. Um this will pass. We 1768 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,400 will work again. We will get through 1769 01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,440 this as a nation. Absolutely. If we meet 1770 01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,760 a year from now, what are we going to be 1771 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,760 celebrating? 1772 01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:42,640 A year from now, what we will be 1773 01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,079 celebrating? Um I have two things. Uh I 1774 01:04:46,079 --> 01:04:50,000 have been working very slowly on a book 1775 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,359 um that deals with all things related to 1776 01:04:53,359 --> 01:04:54,960 the things that stop people from having 1777 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,559 success in their professional lives. 1778 01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:58,240 Right? It's the foundation of everything 1779 01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:01,440 that I do. Um there are eight or 10 1780 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,920 places there 10 places that people tend 1781 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,520 to most often be um stopped in in 1782 01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:09,359 professional success. So we'll be 1783 01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:12,720 celebrating that book uh coming being 1784 01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,960 being complete and coming to market. And 1785 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,880 the second thing we'll be celebrating, I 1786 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,359 am in the midst right now of doing a 1787 01:05:19,359 --> 01:05:22,079 massive pivot in the way that I do work. 1788 01:05:22,079 --> 01:05:23,680 I I love being able to work with 1789 01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,400 individuals. Uh and I am at the place in 1790 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:28,400 my life professionally and also 1791 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,240 personally um where I want to have a 1792 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:32,000 bigger impact and I want to work more 1793 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,520 directly with companies and directly 1794 01:05:35,520 --> 01:05:36,799 working with the leadership in 1795 01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:39,440 companies. And so pivoting my business 1796 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,240 towards more of a a B2B model 1797 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,799 specifically um in a way that I have not 1798 01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:48,559 done it before. Uh so that will look a 1799 01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:49,839 little bit different and I'll be 1800 01:05:49,839 --> 01:05:51,280 celebrating seeing some wins. I've 1801 01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:52,799 already had a couple of wins this year 1802 01:05:52,799 --> 01:05:55,119 but more intentionally f focusing in on 1803 01:05:55,119 --> 01:05:57,359 that. Yeah. Nicole Dumbar with 1804 01:05:57,359 --> 01:05:58,880 Congruency International. It's been a 1805 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,200 pleasure having you on. Um don't make 1806 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:02,480 yourself a stranger. Please join the 1807 01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,559 community. I hope you actually uh come 1808 01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:06,319 to Midwest Con. you would make a I would 1809 01:06:06,319 --> 01:06:07,920 make you a convenor of some of the some 1810 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,200 of those companies you can meet if you 1811 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,280 want to come. 1812 01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,839 Love to have you. Uh but definitely this 1813 01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:15,520 was a great episode. Lots of great 1814 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,359 nuggets here. Appreciate you coming on 1815 01:06:17,359 --> 01:06:22,280 and keep disrupting. Thank you. 1816 01:06:25,340 --> 01:06:29,479 [Music]