1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,240 Carol Cox: You're gonna love my conversation with Judith 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,000 Smelser, president and GM of Central Florida 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,760 Public Media, about not only the importance 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,280 of local journalism and local stories, 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,840 but also how authenticity is the best way to 6 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:15,640 get through imposter syndrome. 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:17,720 On this episode of the Speaking Your Brand 8 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:23,000 podcast. Hi, and welcome to the Speaking Your 9 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,400 Brand podcast. I'm your host, 10 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,240 Carol Cox. Today I have a very special guest. 11 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,520 Judith Smelser is president and general 12 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,200 manager of Central Florida Public Media. 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,320 Now, you may be wondering what exactly a 14 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,440 public media organization is. 15 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:38,960 We're going to get into that. 16 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,320 We're also going to talk about her earlier 17 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,160 career as a reporter and a journalist. 18 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,600 What got her to be president of Central 19 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,080 Florida Public Media, the things that she has 20 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:50,280 learned along the way, 21 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:52,200 especially being a woman leader. 22 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,000 And I know you're really going to want to 23 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,160 tune in to that. 24 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:56,520 We'll talk about the importance of 25 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:57,720 storytelling, of course, 26 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,850 the importance of public media now more than 27 00:01:00,850 --> 00:01:03,850 ever. And I'm also going to ask you to a 28 00:01:03,850 --> 00:01:05,770 little bit about the speaking engagements 29 00:01:05,770 --> 00:01:07,330 that she does, because I know you're going to 30 00:01:07,330 --> 00:01:09,650 want to hear how she goes about thinking 31 00:01:09,650 --> 00:01:11,810 about and preparing for her speaking 32 00:01:11,810 --> 00:01:14,890 engagements. I met Judith because she was the 33 00:01:14,890 --> 00:01:17,890 speaker back in February of an organization 34 00:01:17,890 --> 00:01:20,170 that I'm a member of here in Orlando, 35 00:01:20,170 --> 00:01:22,490 Florida, called Florida Executive Women. 36 00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:24,490 And as soon as I heard Judith talk about the 37 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:27,410 importance of public media and her role as 38 00:01:27,410 --> 00:01:29,970 president, I knew that I wanted to have her 39 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:31,090 on the podcast. 40 00:01:31,090 --> 00:01:32,730 So, Judith, welcome to the Speaking Your 41 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:33,570 Brand podcast. 42 00:01:33,610 --> 00:01:35,130 Judith Smelser: Hi. Thank you so much for having me, 43 00:01:35,170 --> 00:01:35,690 Carol. 44 00:01:36,570 --> 00:01:38,930 Carol Cox: Well, let's dive into what exactly is a 45 00:01:38,930 --> 00:01:41,010 public media organization. 46 00:01:41,770 --> 00:01:43,850 Judith Smelser: Well, that is a changing answer, 47 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:46,730 actually. It's changing as we speak. 48 00:01:46,970 --> 00:01:49,210 Public media was actually set out. 49 00:01:49,250 --> 00:01:52,530 Public broadcasting was set out by Congress 50 00:01:52,530 --> 00:01:56,290 in the 1960s in the Public Broadcasting Act, 51 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:59,780 when Congress recognized that there was a 52 00:01:59,780 --> 00:02:04,180 growing need for media organizations that 53 00:02:04,180 --> 00:02:06,140 operated in the public interest, 54 00:02:06,140 --> 00:02:09,100 as opposed to in a commercial interest and 55 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:10,500 for a commercial interest. 56 00:02:10,740 --> 00:02:14,460 Um, you know, back then and still the, 57 00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:17,460 uh, the broadcast frequencies are considered 58 00:02:17,460 --> 00:02:18,900 public airwaves. 59 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:22,460 And the Congress took that very seriously and 60 00:02:22,460 --> 00:02:25,740 felt that it needed to set aside a certain 61 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:27,900 band of those frequencies. 62 00:02:28,140 --> 00:02:30,300 Um, in radio, it tends to be the lower end, 63 00:02:30,340 --> 00:02:31,620 the left end of the dial, 64 00:02:31,620 --> 00:02:33,460 what used to be the left end of the dial, 65 00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:37,540 um, for, for media organizations that 66 00:02:37,540 --> 00:02:40,660 operated again in the public interest instead 67 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:42,620 of to serve a commercial interest now. 68 00:02:42,820 --> 00:02:45,420 And also Congress provided some funding for, 69 00:02:45,420 --> 00:02:47,900 for this. Uh, now just recently, 70 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:49,620 as you may or may not have heard, 71 00:02:49,820 --> 00:02:51,380 um, our public funding, 72 00:02:51,380 --> 00:02:54,140 our government funding was taken away, 73 00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:57,020 um, was eliminated and in fact rescinded. 74 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:01,360 Um, And so now we are in a new era of public 75 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,640 media. Public media had been evolving to meet 76 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,920 different needs of audiences that have been 77 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,400 migrating to digital platforms and other 78 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,320 platforms. And that that evolution has been 79 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,600 has been ongoing. 80 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,080 And now we're in a situation where our 81 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,960 funding model is also changing and also must 82 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,560 change. But what hasn't changed is that 83 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,840 public media is committed to operating in the 84 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,000 public interest. We are committed to 85 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:30,360 providing, in our case, 86 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,000 at Central Florida, public media, 87 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,320 news and information and civic discourse that 88 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,920 serves no agenda other than to empower and 89 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,520 connect and inform our community here in 90 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:43,400 Central Florida. 91 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:46,480 Carol Cox: Well, that was an excellent answer, Judith. 92 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,160 It sounds like one you've given before, 93 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,160 which you have. 94 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,840 And of course, as a as a reporter and a 95 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,960 journalist in your early part of your career, 96 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,360 you're very good at this, 97 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,290 which I appreciate. So let me ask you a 98 00:03:58,290 --> 00:04:00,730 couple of things that I learned about from 99 00:04:00,730 --> 00:04:02,410 your presentation that I think would be 100 00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:05,650 helpful for the listeners is that as a public 101 00:04:05,650 --> 00:04:09,410 media organization, you can have sponsors. 102 00:04:09,410 --> 00:04:11,930 So everyone's probably seeing their local PBS 103 00:04:11,930 --> 00:04:13,490 station, you know, ask for their do their 104 00:04:13,490 --> 00:04:15,170 sponsorship drive and they, and they want 105 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:18,850 individuals to be monthly members or to do 106 00:04:18,850 --> 00:04:20,090 some type of contribution. 107 00:04:20,090 --> 00:04:22,690 I am now a monthly donor to Central Florida 108 00:04:22,690 --> 00:04:24,690 Public Media since meeting you, 109 00:04:24,690 --> 00:04:26,570 because I realize the importance of it and I 110 00:04:26,570 --> 00:04:28,330 want to make my contribution. 111 00:04:28,330 --> 00:04:31,810 But from what you had said at the speaking 112 00:04:31,810 --> 00:04:32,970 engagement, is that. 113 00:04:33,490 --> 00:04:35,450 So you can have sponsors and there could be a 114 00:04:35,450 --> 00:04:37,050 company even that could be a sponsor, 115 00:04:37,050 --> 00:04:39,250 but you cannot run advertisements. 116 00:04:39,250 --> 00:04:41,850 So you can't say run a 32nd ad or, 117 00:04:41,890 --> 00:04:43,170 or something like that. 118 00:04:43,170 --> 00:04:45,210 That's a commercial. So talk to us a little 119 00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:46,890 bit about the difference between having 120 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:48,890 sponsors versus running ads. 121 00:04:49,170 --> 00:04:52,250 Judith Smelser: Sure. So first off, I should probably make 122 00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:55,050 the distinction between PBS, 123 00:04:55,050 --> 00:04:58,140 NPR and your local public media 124 00:04:58,180 --> 00:04:59,380 organizations. 125 00:04:59,860 --> 00:05:01,260 Here in Central Florida, 126 00:05:01,260 --> 00:05:04,540 we have two local public media organizations. 127 00:05:04,540 --> 00:05:07,540 There's Wusf, which is the local PBS 128 00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:09,780 affiliate. And then there's Central Florida 129 00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:12,300 Public Media, and we are a member station of 130 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:17,540 NPR. Um, but neither of us are owned by NPR 131 00:05:17,540 --> 00:05:20,940 or PBS. So, um, Central Florida Public Media 132 00:05:20,940 --> 00:05:22,700 is an independently owned, 133 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:25,460 community licensed local non-profit. 134 00:05:25,460 --> 00:05:27,260 So I want to make that very clear because 135 00:05:27,260 --> 00:05:29,940 that's a, that's a big sort of myth that 136 00:05:29,940 --> 00:05:32,060 people don't. A point of misunderstanding 137 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:35,220 that people don't always realize is that that 138 00:05:35,220 --> 00:05:37,620 that we are an independent local non-profit. 139 00:05:37,860 --> 00:05:41,220 Um, but yes, just like other non-profits, 140 00:05:41,260 --> 00:05:43,540 we can take sponsorships from local 141 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:45,740 businesses. Um, so, you know, 142 00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:48,060 much in the same way that you might see an 143 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:50,820 event that, let's say second harvest Food 144 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:53,780 Bank puts on that is sponsored by, 145 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:55,070 say AdventHealth. 146 00:05:55,310 --> 00:05:58,110 Um, some of our programming can also be 147 00:05:58,110 --> 00:06:00,790 sponsored, but because of the type of license 148 00:06:00,790 --> 00:06:03,230 that we have for our broadcast outlet and 149 00:06:03,230 --> 00:06:04,710 Central Florida Public Media, 150 00:06:04,710 --> 00:06:08,270 we operate two non-commercial radio stations, 151 00:06:08,310 --> 00:06:13,790 90.7 and 89.5, and those are non-commercial, 152 00:06:14,110 --> 00:06:17,550 FCC licensed broadcast outlets. 153 00:06:17,550 --> 00:06:20,750 And as a condition of that license. 154 00:06:20,750 --> 00:06:22,630 And there are several benefits that go along 155 00:06:22,630 --> 00:06:24,590 with having that type of license. 156 00:06:24,590 --> 00:06:27,390 But but, but as a condition of that, 157 00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:29,710 there are things that we cannot do. 158 00:06:30,150 --> 00:06:31,990 When we acknowledge our sponsors, 159 00:06:31,990 --> 00:06:34,430 we are allowed to acknowledge our sponsors on 160 00:06:34,430 --> 00:06:38,030 the air. Um, but we are not allowed to do any 161 00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:39,190 calls to action. 162 00:06:39,590 --> 00:06:41,870 We are not allowed to use any, 163 00:06:41,950 --> 00:06:45,390 uh, superlatives or comparative language. 164 00:06:45,390 --> 00:06:49,110 So for example, um, you couldn't have an 165 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:53,190 acknowledgement spot on the air that says, 166 00:06:53,270 --> 00:06:56,530 uh, go to Bob's car dealership. 167 00:06:56,690 --> 00:06:59,450 It's the best car dealership in Central 168 00:06:59,450 --> 00:07:01,810 Florida. That would be illegal. 169 00:07:02,250 --> 00:07:04,370 So we can't we can't do that. 170 00:07:04,370 --> 00:07:07,370 But we can say central Florida Public Media 171 00:07:07,370 --> 00:07:10,410 is supported by Bob's car dealership, 172 00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:13,370 which sells cars at this location in Central 173 00:07:13,370 --> 00:07:15,890 Florida. So it's a fine line, 174 00:07:15,890 --> 00:07:18,730 but it's an important one because again, 175 00:07:18,770 --> 00:07:21,730 the whole point of public media is that we 176 00:07:21,770 --> 00:07:23,610 are here to serve the public interest, 177 00:07:23,650 --> 00:07:25,490 not corporate and commercial interests, but 178 00:07:25,490 --> 00:07:28,690 we also want to be able and are allowed to 179 00:07:28,730 --> 00:07:29,970 thank our sponsors. 180 00:07:31,290 --> 00:07:33,290 Carol Cox: Well, you mentioned when you were describing 181 00:07:33,290 --> 00:07:36,010 what public media is, and here just with the 182 00:07:36,010 --> 00:07:38,090 sponsorship about this idea of like using 183 00:07:38,090 --> 00:07:40,210 superlatives and using certain kinds of 184 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:42,290 language. And I know one of the biggest 185 00:07:42,290 --> 00:07:45,850 challenges that a lot of we call legacy 186 00:07:45,850 --> 00:07:47,770 media, and especially public media 187 00:07:47,770 --> 00:07:49,010 organizations are having, 188 00:07:49,010 --> 00:07:51,090 I imagine, is that with the rise of the 189 00:07:51,090 --> 00:07:53,420 internet and no more gatekeepers. 190 00:07:53,420 --> 00:07:56,140 And everyone has a voice and a microphone and 191 00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:57,580 a webcam, which of course, 192 00:07:57,580 --> 00:07:59,180 there's a lot of benefit to that. 193 00:07:59,180 --> 00:08:01,940 But the downside is that the algorithms, 194 00:08:01,980 --> 00:08:04,180 like certain types of content, 195 00:08:04,620 --> 00:08:06,740 clickbaity content, outrage, 196 00:08:06,740 --> 00:08:09,060 content, content that pushes people's 197 00:08:09,060 --> 00:08:10,940 buttons, pushes people's emotions, 198 00:08:10,980 --> 00:08:14,180 elicits a type of reaction from them, 199 00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:18,300 and the type of news, content and information 200 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:20,340 content that you are putting out is very much 201 00:08:20,340 --> 00:08:24,460 not that. So how are you figuring out how to 202 00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:27,140 still get this news information in front of 203 00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:28,220 citizens and, you know, 204 00:08:28,260 --> 00:08:29,780 in front of all of us, residents and 205 00:08:29,780 --> 00:08:32,220 citizens, citizens of a community in a way 206 00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:33,780 that we want this. 207 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:35,780 Many of us want this information, but it 208 00:08:35,780 --> 00:08:37,540 probably has. It's probably very hard with 209 00:08:37,540 --> 00:08:39,660 the way the algorithms are tuned to get it 210 00:08:39,700 --> 00:08:40,140 seen. 211 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:42,860 Judith Smelser: It is a challenge, and the first thing I'll 212 00:08:42,860 --> 00:08:45,940 say is, the first answer to that question is 213 00:08:46,140 --> 00:08:48,820 we have to be on those platforms. 214 00:08:49,020 --> 00:08:51,660 Um, you know, we are now at Central Florida 215 00:08:51,750 --> 00:08:54,910 Public Media, a digital first news 216 00:08:54,910 --> 00:08:57,430 organization. We are a multimedia, 217 00:08:57,470 --> 00:08:59,830 multi-platform news organization. 218 00:08:59,830 --> 00:09:01,710 We operate two radio stations, 219 00:09:01,710 --> 00:09:04,110 but we also operate one of the most 220 00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:06,390 comprehensive local news websites in our 221 00:09:06,390 --> 00:09:09,430 region. And we also have a mobile app. 222 00:09:09,430 --> 00:09:12,830 And we also offer a weekly newsletter where 223 00:09:12,830 --> 00:09:15,270 we offer local news and we produce for local 224 00:09:15,270 --> 00:09:16,990 podcasts. So we are, we are, 225 00:09:17,030 --> 00:09:18,270 we are full service. 226 00:09:18,430 --> 00:09:20,630 Um, and, and to your point, 227 00:09:20,630 --> 00:09:23,310 we do have to, those are our owned platforms, 228 00:09:23,310 --> 00:09:26,190 platforms that we own and put out content on, 229 00:09:26,190 --> 00:09:28,910 but we also have to be in front of people 230 00:09:28,910 --> 00:09:31,990 where they are and often where they are is on 231 00:09:31,990 --> 00:09:33,750 those social media platforms. 232 00:09:34,030 --> 00:09:36,870 We are not going to, um, 233 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:40,150 we are not going to adjust or change who we 234 00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:43,150 are or our values based on what the 235 00:09:43,150 --> 00:09:46,430 algorithm, um, prioritizes. 236 00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:50,430 But what we are doing is providing content in 237 00:09:50,430 --> 00:09:53,720 a way that those audiences like to consume 238 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:55,280 it. And a great example of, 239 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,040 of how we've pivoted along those lines is 240 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,520 that we're doing about 75% more video now 241 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,200 than we were a year ago. 242 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Um, and, and some people might think that's 243 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,720 funny because they primarily think about us 244 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,200 as a radio station, but we're not primarily a 245 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:11,560 radio station anymore. 246 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:13,800 And our, and our people have been, 247 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,200 I must say, remarkably adaptable to this 248 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,000 shift. We have people who actually have grown 249 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,480 to love doing video. 250 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:22,680 Our morning edition host, 251 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:24,640 our local host of our morning show. 252 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,680 Um, she, she's been in radio for many years, 253 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,560 but turns out she loves video. 254 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:33,880 And so she started a newscast three times a 255 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:35,320 week that she does on video, 256 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,040 on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube shorts. 257 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,240 And that's a way that we can put accurate, 258 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,920 fact checked, vetted local news in people's 259 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,040 feeds in places where people already are. 260 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:54,220 So that that that they can discover what it 261 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:55,860 is that we have to offer. 262 00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:59,180 You know, what we find is that people really 263 00:10:59,220 --> 00:11:02,860 don't enjoy the outrage, 264 00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:06,980 the clickbait, the negativity and people 265 00:11:06,980 --> 00:11:08,340 shouting at them all the time. 266 00:11:08,540 --> 00:11:11,460 Um, even though that's what the algorithms 267 00:11:11,500 --> 00:11:15,340 want you to see that that raises people's 268 00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:18,420 blood pressure and people appreciate the fact 269 00:11:18,420 --> 00:11:20,020 people tell me that all the time. Thank you 270 00:11:20,020 --> 00:11:21,380 for not yelling at me. 271 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:23,700 You know, people appreciate that. 272 00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:26,260 Um, but we have to we have to get it out 273 00:11:26,260 --> 00:11:28,860 there in front of them. And we know that one 274 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:31,220 thing that we can do that the algorithms 275 00:11:31,220 --> 00:11:33,060 prioritize is more video. 276 00:11:33,300 --> 00:11:35,020 And so that's one of the things that we've, 277 00:11:35,020 --> 00:11:37,620 we've, we've concretely pivoted some 278 00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:40,220 resources towards so that we can, 279 00:11:40,220 --> 00:11:42,700 we can get in front of folks where they 280 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:43,500 already are. 281 00:11:44,540 --> 00:11:45,700 Carol Cox: Oh, I'm glad to hear that. 282 00:11:45,940 --> 00:11:49,390 Uh, okay. So let's, let's back up to the 283 00:11:49,390 --> 00:11:50,750 first part of your career. 284 00:11:50,910 --> 00:11:53,550 And you decided to go into journalism and you 285 00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:55,430 were a reporter. So what drew you to that? 286 00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:57,190 Why did you decide that you wanted to be a 287 00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:57,950 journalist? 288 00:11:58,590 --> 00:12:00,830 Judith Smelser: You know, I didn't want to be a journalist 289 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:01,990 when I was growing up. 290 00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:03,950 That was not my ambition. 291 00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:06,270 I actually went to college for international 292 00:12:06,270 --> 00:12:08,430 relations and I was going to be a diplomat. 293 00:12:08,750 --> 00:12:11,470 Um, and I went to D.C. 294 00:12:11,510 --> 00:12:15,510 after college and had the privilege of doing 295 00:12:15,630 --> 00:12:17,870 a junior fellowship at a think tank up there 296 00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:19,550 at the Carnegie Endowment for International 297 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:22,710 Peace. And they did a wonderful job of 298 00:12:22,750 --> 00:12:24,870 letting us interact with all of their senior 299 00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:27,350 folks and understand what their career paths 300 00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:29,910 had been. And I came to the realization that 301 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:31,790 actually, I don't think I wanted to do any of 302 00:12:31,830 --> 00:12:34,510 that. Um, and so I had to kind of reinvent 303 00:12:34,510 --> 00:12:36,350 myself in that year. 304 00:12:36,590 --> 00:12:40,550 And I, I sort of stumbled onto journalism by 305 00:12:40,550 --> 00:12:42,750 accident. And part of the reason, 306 00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:45,390 honestly, that I stumbled onto journalism is 307 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:49,080 because of public media is because public 308 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:50,560 media was such a. 309 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,000 Public radio in specific was such a. 310 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,840 An omnipresent factor in my childhood. 311 00:12:56,880 --> 00:12:59,080 My parents had it on all the time. 312 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,040 I was what we call in the public media world 313 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,160 a back seat kid. 314 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,760 Um, it was it was always on in the car. 315 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,040 Whenever I hear the theme song, 316 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,280 to All Things Considered, 317 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,400 I am back in my mom's kitchen, 318 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,680 sitting on a stool watching her cook dinner. 319 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Um, and, and so that, that was always in my 320 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,880 ear and I, and, and I thought perhaps I could 321 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,520 pivot to a place where I could still be 322 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,120 involved in current events. 323 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,120 International affairs at the time, 324 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,200 I started interning for an international news 325 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,120 agency. Um, and, and keep my hand in that 326 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,320 side of it while also, 327 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,200 you know, moving into a different space that 328 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,200 was a little more fast paced than the sort of 329 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,520 policy world that I found myself not really 330 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,530 gravitating towards as much as I thought I 331 00:13:47,530 --> 00:13:50,090 might. And so that's I really stumbled into 332 00:13:50,090 --> 00:13:52,370 it. I talked this, uh, 333 00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:55,130 this news agency into giving me an unpaid 334 00:13:55,130 --> 00:13:56,530 internship that I did. 335 00:13:56,570 --> 00:13:58,410 At the same time I was working at the think 336 00:13:58,450 --> 00:14:02,170 tank and, um, and then I convinced them to 337 00:14:02,210 --> 00:14:04,610 hire me somehow and that the rest, 338 00:14:04,610 --> 00:14:05,730 I guess, was history. 339 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:08,690 Carol Cox: Oh, that is so fascinating. Jude. 340 00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:11,930 I am relieved to hear that you have had a 341 00:14:11,970 --> 00:14:14,250 winding career path as well, 342 00:14:14,730 --> 00:14:16,210 right? I think most of us have, 343 00:14:16,250 --> 00:14:18,210 but we feel we look at someone who's so put 344 00:14:18,210 --> 00:14:20,010 together, you know, the president and general 345 00:14:20,010 --> 00:14:21,930 manager of the Central Florida Public Media, 346 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:23,290 surely Judith knew from, 347 00:14:23,330 --> 00:14:25,090 you know, eight years old that this was the 348 00:14:25,090 --> 00:14:27,730 path that she was going to go on. 349 00:14:27,770 --> 00:14:30,690 Yeah. Well, and it's also funny because when 350 00:14:30,690 --> 00:14:32,410 I was a senior in undergrad, 351 00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:35,770 I also wanted to go into diplomacy, 352 00:14:35,770 --> 00:14:37,370 into the State Department. And I looked at 353 00:14:37,370 --> 00:14:39,210 the Foreign Service and also the Carnegie 354 00:14:39,210 --> 00:14:40,530 Endowment for for peace. 355 00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:42,970 I very you're the only person I have talked 356 00:14:42,970 --> 00:14:46,110 to since then who has mentioned the Carnegie. 357 00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:48,150 Judith Smelser: Wow. Small world. 358 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:49,550 Carol Cox: Very small world. 359 00:14:49,550 --> 00:14:51,790 But as I to learn more about the Foreign 360 00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:53,110 Service and I was like, 361 00:14:53,150 --> 00:14:56,030 you know what? Maybe that's not quite for me. 362 00:14:56,070 --> 00:14:57,750 You know, I'm a reader. Like I'm an 363 00:14:57,750 --> 00:14:59,710 intellectual. I don't know about like getting 364 00:14:59,710 --> 00:15:02,230 dirty, really, like, you know, 365 00:15:02,270 --> 00:15:04,230 out in the field is my thing. So I decided to 366 00:15:04,270 --> 00:15:06,430 go to graduate school to get a PhD in history 367 00:15:06,430 --> 00:15:07,110 instead. 368 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:08,310 Judith Smelser: So there you go. 369 00:15:08,510 --> 00:15:09,510 Yeah, there we are. 370 00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:13,230 Carol Cox: And it made a turn into doing political 371 00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:15,630 analysis on the TV stations here in Central 372 00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:17,790 Florida, which I've been doing now for 20 373 00:15:17,790 --> 00:15:20,710 years during the mostly the presidential 374 00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:22,790 election cycle. So you just never know. 375 00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:24,870 But I feel like all the seeds are there, 376 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:26,830 like, and then they just end up sprouting in 377 00:15:26,830 --> 00:15:27,830 different places. 378 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:30,190 Judith Smelser: I think that's one of the most important 379 00:15:30,190 --> 00:15:33,430 skills you can have, is the ability to be 380 00:15:33,430 --> 00:15:36,470 self-aware enough to follow the path that 381 00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:38,190 you're meant to be on, 382 00:15:38,230 --> 00:15:40,430 as opposed to the one you thought you were 383 00:15:40,430 --> 00:15:42,470 going to be on. Um, it's, 384 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:45,000 it's, it's not easy necessarily, 385 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,640 and it can be very disorienting. 386 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,640 But I think it's, I think it's, 387 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,400 uh, big, um, key to success. 388 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,520 Carol Cox: Yes. So how did you end up president and GM 389 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:56,120 of Central Florida Public media? 390 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,840 Judith Smelser: Well, that's, that's, that's another winding 391 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,920 road. That's another, that's another, 392 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,520 this job is another thing that I never in a 393 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,360 million years thought I would be doing, never 394 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:06,800 in a million years. 395 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,080 So in journalism there's something called the 396 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,400 firewall, right. 397 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,520 The firewall is, is a is a bright line in 398 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,680 between the journalists in a news 399 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:21,680 organization and anyone involved in money. 400 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,320 So you have to wall off your. 401 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,000 If you are running an ethical news 402 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000 organization, you have to wall off editorial 403 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,200 decision making from anything that could 404 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,080 taint that decision making other than the 405 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,480 facts. Right. 406 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,560 And so, um, the people who are in charge of, 407 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,450 in a nonprofit news organization. 408 00:16:44,450 --> 00:16:46,770 Fundraising, sponsorships, 409 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:49,290 anything to do with revenue cannot touch the 410 00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:50,330 editorial side. 411 00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:55,090 I spent 20 years in journalism. 412 00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:56,890 I spent 20 years as a reporter, 413 00:16:56,890 --> 00:16:59,170 as a news director, then later as a 414 00:16:59,170 --> 00:17:01,250 consultant to news organizations. 415 00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:05,570 I never imagined stepping on the other side 416 00:17:05,570 --> 00:17:09,170 of the firewall, because now the irony is I 417 00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:11,690 am not allowed, per our ethics policy, 418 00:17:11,810 --> 00:17:13,850 to make any editorial decisions. 419 00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:16,770 I have to check that expertise at the door in 420 00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:18,850 a large way, in a large part when I come into 421 00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:21,410 work, which has been an interesting shift. 422 00:17:21,810 --> 00:17:24,330 Um, yeah, never did I, 423 00:17:24,370 --> 00:17:28,330 did I intend or set out or even want to run a 424 00:17:28,330 --> 00:17:30,090 news organization, a public media 425 00:17:30,090 --> 00:17:34,130 organization, but about four and a half years 426 00:17:34,130 --> 00:17:38,450 ago or so, um, I was, I was running my 427 00:17:38,450 --> 00:17:42,220 consulting business and I then NYU, 428 00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:44,460 MFA. So Central Florida Public Media used to 429 00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:46,860 be known by our radio call letters w m f. 430 00:17:47,660 --> 00:17:49,740 They had had a leadership transition. 431 00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:51,940 They'd had a couple of leadership transitions 432 00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:53,460 in in short order. 433 00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:57,900 And I felt like, uh, I needed to do something 434 00:17:57,940 --> 00:18:01,060 to help. And I reached out to a friend of 435 00:18:01,060 --> 00:18:02,740 mine who was a member of the board of 436 00:18:02,740 --> 00:18:06,100 trustees, uh, who I'd known from my time in 437 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:07,300 the newsroom here. 438 00:18:07,580 --> 00:18:10,900 Um, and, and asked how I could help. 439 00:18:11,020 --> 00:18:14,060 Um, meanwhile, I had a couple people in the 440 00:18:14,060 --> 00:18:17,020 public media sphere that I'd known throughout 441 00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:20,820 my career reach out to me and ask me why I 442 00:18:20,860 --> 00:18:22,420 wasn't doing this job. 443 00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:24,940 Why wasn't I taking this job? 444 00:18:25,180 --> 00:18:27,220 Why wasn't I throwing my hat in the ring? 445 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,140 Um, and, and I'd had people asking me that 446 00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:33,580 question for a couple of years and once, 447 00:18:33,580 --> 00:18:37,020 once it that those voices kept adding up. 448 00:18:37,020 --> 00:18:38,700 I thought, you know, maybe I ought to listen 449 00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:41,100 to these people. Maybe I ought to at least 450 00:18:41,230 --> 00:18:46,190 consider this. And one thing that I realized 451 00:18:46,190 --> 00:18:52,550 was that I had a stereotypical view of what a 452 00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:54,350 president and GM of a public media 453 00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:55,830 organization looked like. 454 00:18:56,110 --> 00:18:57,510 And it wasn't me. 455 00:18:57,910 --> 00:19:01,070 Um, it was an older white man. 456 00:19:01,670 --> 00:19:05,470 It was someone who dressed in fancy suits. 457 00:19:05,750 --> 00:19:10,550 Um, someone who drove around in their car 458 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:12,630 listening to classical music all the time. 459 00:19:12,630 --> 00:19:15,430 Nothing. No aspersions on my parents are both 460 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:16,870 musicians, so it's okay. 461 00:19:16,910 --> 00:19:18,750 So I love classical music too. 462 00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:21,190 But I also listen to 80s and 90s music when 463 00:19:21,190 --> 00:19:23,310 I'm driving around in my car, sometimes when 464 00:19:23,310 --> 00:19:24,870 I'm not listening to 90.7. 465 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:27,190 Of course. Um, you know, 466 00:19:27,230 --> 00:19:30,190 I realized I had this preconceived notion of 467 00:19:30,190 --> 00:19:33,590 what a GM of a public media outlet is. 468 00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:38,350 And I, even though I had plenty of friends, 469 00:19:38,350 --> 00:19:40,690 people I had had as consulting clients, 470 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:42,890 people I had known who were women leaders of 471 00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:44,490 public media organizations. 472 00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:47,370 I still had this, this preconception in my 473 00:19:47,370 --> 00:19:50,050 mind. So that was part of it. 474 00:19:50,050 --> 00:19:51,690 But I started doing some, 475 00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:55,170 some research and, and some conversations 476 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:57,850 with people I knew who held the role. 477 00:19:58,050 --> 00:20:02,130 Um, I, I started asking questions about, 478 00:20:02,370 --> 00:20:04,850 you know, the parts of the business that I 479 00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:07,490 didn't have direct experience or expertise 480 00:20:07,490 --> 00:20:11,370 in. Um, and, and long story short, 481 00:20:11,490 --> 00:20:14,570 um, I ended up in this role in an interim 482 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:16,370 capacity for a few months, 483 00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:19,370 um, while the board did a national search. 484 00:20:19,690 --> 00:20:23,930 Um, and, and it was sort of a trying it out. 485 00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:25,050 Do I like this? 486 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:28,770 But at the same time, I was the need at that 487 00:20:28,770 --> 00:20:31,770 time for leadership in the organization was 488 00:20:31,770 --> 00:20:34,290 so great that I didn't do that job as an 489 00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:36,490 interim. I didn't do that job as a 490 00:20:36,490 --> 00:20:38,970 placeholder. Um, because that's not what the 491 00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:40,900 organization needed. And even if the board 492 00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:42,300 had made a different decision, 493 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,860 it still wouldn't have been what the 494 00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:45,780 organization needed. The organization needed 495 00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:47,460 somebody. They didn't need a band aid. They 496 00:20:47,460 --> 00:20:49,620 needed somebody that was going to come in and 497 00:20:49,620 --> 00:20:52,100 take it and run with it as long as, 498 00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:54,060 as, as they were there. 499 00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:59,300 And so I, I invested quite a lot of my own 500 00:20:59,340 --> 00:21:00,660 emotional energy. 501 00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:03,260 Um, and I, and I felt a great deal of 502 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:06,700 ownership, um, in the place by the time I was 503 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:08,180 offered the position and I, 504 00:21:08,180 --> 00:21:10,140 I mean, I was, I was already doing it, 505 00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:12,220 I was bought in and by that time I was kind 506 00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:15,500 of hooked. Um, and I was on a path with the 507 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:17,300 organization that I certainly didn't want to 508 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,540 step off of at that time. 509 00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:22,820 So long story short, this is none of this is 510 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,300 what I thought I was going to be doing. If 511 00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:26,740 you had told me five years ago that I would 512 00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:28,380 be doing this job, I would have said, 513 00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:30,700 you're, you're you're nuts, 514 00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:33,580 you know? Um, but again, 515 00:21:33,580 --> 00:21:37,420 it's about listening to the voices, 516 00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:41,310 not only your own, but some voices that can 517 00:21:41,310 --> 00:21:42,910 see things that you can't. 518 00:21:43,230 --> 00:21:46,630 Um, and I'm grateful that I did because it's 519 00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:48,070 been one of the most fulfilling things I've 520 00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:48,710 ever done. 521 00:21:49,790 --> 00:21:52,230 Carol Cox: Well, and I know our community is grateful 522 00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:54,830 that you're at the helm and that you are 523 00:21:54,830 --> 00:21:56,830 leading public media through a lot of these 524 00:21:56,830 --> 00:21:58,990 changes that have been going on. 525 00:21:58,990 --> 00:22:00,830 So let's talk a little bit about being a 526 00:22:00,830 --> 00:22:03,390 woman president and GM of, 527 00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:05,830 of an, you know, a good sized organization 528 00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:08,430 and very visible and important organization 529 00:22:08,430 --> 00:22:10,830 in the community and in public media itself. 530 00:22:10,830 --> 00:22:13,190 So what have been the parts that have 531 00:22:13,190 --> 00:22:15,950 surprised you in the positive side, 532 00:22:15,950 --> 00:22:17,430 so that you've really enjoyed? And then what 533 00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:19,230 have been some of the challenges either 534 00:22:19,230 --> 00:22:20,750 expected or unexpected? 535 00:22:22,830 --> 00:22:27,110 Judith Smelser: Well, I'll start with the challenges. 536 00:22:27,510 --> 00:22:32,310 Um, again, never in a million years would I 537 00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:34,270 have thought that I would be leading this 538 00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:38,560 organization through the Elimination of 539 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,360 federal funding and state funding. 540 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,400 Federal funding that has been supporting 541 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,040 public media for decades and decades longer 542 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,480 than I have been alive. 543 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,600 Um, that's one of those things where if you 544 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,800 had told me four and a half years ago when I 545 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,800 was trying to decide whether I wanted to put 546 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,520 my hat in the ring, if you told me I would 547 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,240 have to be leading through that kind of 548 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,320 change, would I have stepped up? 549 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,800 Would I have done it? I don't know because I 550 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:08,640 don't I don't think I would have had the 551 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,560 confidence that I would have known how to 552 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,160 how, how to navigate that. 553 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,800 But what I know now is that none of us knew 554 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,080 how to navigate that. 555 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,840 And we're all we're all figuring it out. 556 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,960 We're all figuring it out together as a 557 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,080 public media family, and we're all figuring 558 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,960 it out in collaboration with the communities 559 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,000 that we individually serve. 560 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,080 You know, and I think that is, 561 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:39,540 um, that has been a real bright spot in the 562 00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:42,220 challenges that last year and the rescission 563 00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:45,140 of our funding faced, was seeing how this 564 00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:48,540 community stepped up and came out for this 565 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:50,940 organization, came out for public media. 566 00:23:51,100 --> 00:23:54,700 When they realized the need and and one of 567 00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:56,020 the things that surprised me, 568 00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:57,780 it's not positive or negative. It's just 569 00:23:57,780 --> 00:24:00,260 true. Um, one of the things that surprised me 570 00:24:00,260 --> 00:24:03,100 before we got to the, the point of rescission 571 00:24:03,140 --> 00:24:06,860 of funding, um, was, was the level of 572 00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:10,260 misperception of how public media was funded 573 00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:11,340 in the first place. 574 00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:14,020 You know, once I was in a position to start 575 00:24:14,020 --> 00:24:15,540 talking to people in the community, 576 00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:17,340 talking to donors, foundations, 577 00:24:17,940 --> 00:24:22,620 corporations, um, I, I became aware of how 578 00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,700 deep the misperception is. 579 00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:29,060 People thought that we were mostly funded by 580 00:24:29,060 --> 00:24:30,100 the government. 581 00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:32,020 People thought that we probably people 582 00:24:32,020 --> 00:24:35,910 thought we got the vast majority and that 583 00:24:35,910 --> 00:24:38,790 anything that came from individual donors or 584 00:24:38,790 --> 00:24:40,990 the community in any way was sort of gravy. 585 00:24:40,990 --> 00:24:42,910 That was not true. 586 00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:44,950 Even before we lost our funding, 587 00:24:44,990 --> 00:24:47,430 we at Central Florida Public Media got about 588 00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:50,150 11% of our funding from the government. 589 00:24:50,430 --> 00:24:52,510 The rest of the funding from the community. 590 00:24:52,550 --> 00:24:56,590 Now, I will say that 11% represents $400,000 591 00:24:56,590 --> 00:24:58,710 every year. So it's no small potatoes, 592 00:24:58,710 --> 00:25:01,270 right? It's not something that we can just do 593 00:25:01,270 --> 00:25:04,750 without, um, without significant cutbacks. 594 00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:07,070 Uh, but, but that misperception and then 595 00:25:07,070 --> 00:25:09,990 there was also a misperception and still is 596 00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:12,630 of our relationship with NPR, 597 00:25:12,670 --> 00:25:14,350 as I was talking about before, 598 00:25:14,590 --> 00:25:16,750 a lot of people think that we are owned by 599 00:25:16,750 --> 00:25:19,790 NPR, that we are governed somehow by NPR. 600 00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:22,510 I had a I had a leader in the community, 601 00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:24,950 um, talked to me about, 602 00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:28,830 about how I reported to the chair of the NPR 603 00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:30,910 board. I do not report to the chair of the 604 00:25:30,910 --> 00:25:33,950 NPR board. The chair of my board would be 605 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,640 very surprised to hear that because I report 606 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,360 to the to the chair of my board, 607 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,040 um, who, which is a board of trustees that 608 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,880 are from this community. 609 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,400 Um, you know, people thought that we were 610 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,760 subsidized by NPR. 611 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,480 There were all of these misperceptions about 612 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,360 how public media actually works. 613 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:54,440 And, and, and I think that is, 614 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,760 that is partly because we as public media 615 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,040 organizations have ridden the strong brands 616 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:02,880 of our national partners. 617 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,920 Um, but the fact of the matter is that we pay 618 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,760 NPR, we pay NPR to be a member. 619 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560 We pay NPR to run their programming all. 620 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,240 And we're proud to do that. 621 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,480 But but that has been a real eye opener is 622 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,960 how, um, is how people perceived that 623 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,480 relationship, uh, and misperceived that 624 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,520 relationship. But when, 625 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,000 when our government funding was taken away, 626 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,520 even the people who thought that, 627 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:29,920 you know, we got all of our money from the 628 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,920 government, well, they realized that that 629 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,210 they needed to step up And that was really 630 00:26:35,210 --> 00:26:39,810 encouraging. Um, I think one of the, 631 00:26:39,850 --> 00:26:44,810 one of the nice surprises also has been that 632 00:26:45,570 --> 00:26:49,330 this position really has allowed me to lean 633 00:26:49,330 --> 00:26:55,450 into the idealistic side of my nature, 634 00:26:55,690 --> 00:26:58,050 which might seem counterintuitive given, 635 00:26:58,090 --> 00:26:59,490 you know, that we're talking about funding 636 00:26:59,490 --> 00:27:00,650 cuts and all of that. 637 00:27:00,890 --> 00:27:04,170 Um, but when you're leading an organization, 638 00:27:05,130 --> 00:27:10,370 part of your job is, is to inspire 639 00:27:10,850 --> 00:27:11,930 aspiration. 640 00:27:12,090 --> 00:27:15,210 Part of your job is to be aspirational and to 641 00:27:15,250 --> 00:27:17,890 inspire your team, your board, 642 00:27:17,890 --> 00:27:20,650 your community, your funders to dream along 643 00:27:20,650 --> 00:27:25,730 with you. And I've always been a dreamer in a 644 00:27:25,730 --> 00:27:30,850 way, but that's one thing that you can't 645 00:27:30,850 --> 00:27:32,430 really do as a journalist. 646 00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:34,470 Um, you know, in a lot of ways, 647 00:27:34,470 --> 00:27:36,750 journalists right now have to be optimists 648 00:27:36,750 --> 00:27:39,110 because it's a very challenging time for the 649 00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:40,350 industry in general. 650 00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:43,110 Um, and to believe that you're making a 651 00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:44,990 difference by sharing facts, 652 00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:48,750 um, right now is, is an aspirational, 653 00:27:48,830 --> 00:27:49,950 um, position to take. 654 00:27:50,270 --> 00:27:52,710 Um, but, but in many ways, 655 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:53,990 when you're a journalist, 656 00:27:54,030 --> 00:27:59,830 your job is to shine light on challenges and 657 00:27:59,870 --> 00:28:02,310 is to shine light on problems. 658 00:28:02,790 --> 00:28:04,670 It is also to shine light on joy. 659 00:28:04,670 --> 00:28:06,870 And I want to be very clear about that. 660 00:28:07,070 --> 00:28:10,470 Um, but, but you do have a tendency and a 661 00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:12,270 need as a journalist, as a, 662 00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:15,230 as, as a, as a sort of whistleblower on 663 00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:19,670 things, um, to, to look for the problems in 664 00:28:19,670 --> 00:28:23,750 some, in some cases as a leader of a news 665 00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:25,790 organization or any organization, 666 00:28:26,150 --> 00:28:29,470 your job is to look for the possible. 667 00:28:30,270 --> 00:28:32,520 And, and I love that. 668 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,440 I love the fact that I get to, 669 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:40,840 to help my organization and the community see 670 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,480 the potential for what this organization 671 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,920 could mean to this community, 672 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:53,680 with the investment from the community that 673 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,600 frankly, it needs and deserves. 674 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,000 This community deserves a first class public 675 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,080 media organization. 676 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,880 It does. And, and, and we're ready. 677 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,040 You know, I can tell you my team now is 678 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:06,200 chomping at the bit. 679 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,080 Um, should the community want us to move 680 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,520 forward with that vision and, 681 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,560 and I, and I love that part of it. 682 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,560 And I love the part of it where I get to be 683 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,080 someone who stands up in this community and 684 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,760 talks about the importance of local 685 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,000 journalism and talks about local journalism 686 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,160 as a public good. 687 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,530 I'm the one that gets to speak out for that. 688 00:29:31,530 --> 00:29:33,210 Not that I'm the only one who can speak out 689 00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:36,570 for that, but I get to play that role and 690 00:29:36,570 --> 00:29:38,490 that is an incredible privilege. 691 00:29:38,490 --> 00:29:40,050 It's so important. 692 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:42,250 It's something I believe in so strongly. 693 00:29:42,730 --> 00:29:46,290 And and now I get to really speak that truth 694 00:29:46,530 --> 00:29:50,530 to people who can make a difference in making 695 00:29:50,530 --> 00:29:51,250 it happen. 696 00:29:52,530 --> 00:29:55,610 Carol Cox: Oh, Judith, I, I can hear your passion as 697 00:29:55,610 --> 00:29:57,690 you're sharing that and the energy you have 698 00:29:57,730 --> 00:30:00,090 behind that of having this vision and, 699 00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:02,450 and wanting to take people along with you to. 700 00:30:02,730 --> 00:30:04,690 And I love this optimistic take and seeing 701 00:30:04,690 --> 00:30:06,690 what's possible and showing the community 702 00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:09,370 what's possible. And this idea of public 703 00:30:09,370 --> 00:30:12,130 media and local journalism being a public 704 00:30:12,130 --> 00:30:14,690 good, I feel like the pendulum has swung so 705 00:30:14,690 --> 00:30:17,090 far to one end as far as everything being 706 00:30:17,090 --> 00:30:19,370 privatized and corporatized, 707 00:30:19,650 --> 00:30:22,530 you know, in almost all aspects of our 708 00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:24,610 society that I feel like the pendulum is 709 00:30:24,610 --> 00:30:26,450 bound to swing back to more people 710 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:27,690 recognizing the need. 711 00:30:27,930 --> 00:30:30,460 Public spaces, reinvestment in public 712 00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,500 education, public media and so on. 713 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:36,980 So public health, lots of things that we 714 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:38,860 maybe have taken for granted over the years 715 00:30:38,860 --> 00:30:41,420 that don't so much take for granted. 716 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:43,020 Okay. So you mentioned this, 717 00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:45,460 you know, the importance of local journalism. 718 00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:48,140 And then I think about stories and the 719 00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:51,740 stories that local journalists tell and about 720 00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:54,420 whose voices get heard and whose don't. 721 00:30:54,540 --> 00:30:56,580 So talk to us a little bit about the 722 00:30:56,580 --> 00:31:00,620 importance of local voices and local stories 723 00:31:00,620 --> 00:31:02,620 for how a community understands itself, 724 00:31:02,620 --> 00:31:04,740 how it shapes itself, how it imagines what 725 00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:06,260 its future is going to be, 726 00:31:06,460 --> 00:31:08,820 and what is what is possible for that 727 00:31:08,820 --> 00:31:09,540 community. 728 00:31:10,940 --> 00:31:12,980 Judith Smelser: That's such a great question because it gets 729 00:31:12,980 --> 00:31:15,460 to the heart of what journalism is. 730 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:17,500 In my view, journalism, 731 00:31:18,180 --> 00:31:21,940 the job of journalism is to hold up a mirror 732 00:31:22,260 --> 00:31:23,460 to the community. 733 00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:25,860 It's to hold up a mirror and reflect the 734 00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:28,880 community to itself as it is, 735 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:30,280 warts and all. Right. 736 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,680 It's it's it's it's it's to hold up that 737 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,560 mirror and allow the community to see the 738 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,880 wonderful things that are going on, 739 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,840 the challenges that it faces, 740 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,920 the, the many different perspectives and 741 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,760 types of people who make up that community. 742 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,520 Um, and, and at the core, 743 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,000 that really is what journalism is supposed to 744 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,920 do. Journalism isn't supposed to tell you how 745 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,760 to think, tell you how to act, 746 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:58,280 tell you what to do. 747 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,720 Um, it's supposed to give you information and 748 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,080 reflect back what is really going on in your 749 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,160 community that you yourself may or may not be 750 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,360 seeing, you know, and it's to help you see 751 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,480 yourself and your community through perhaps 752 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,960 the eyes of other people who have a different 753 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,640 lived experience than you do. 754 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,760 Um, you know, you mentioned whose stories get 755 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,840 told, right? And, and that is a really 756 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:26,920 important question. 757 00:32:27,050 --> 00:32:30,130 And it's an important responsibility that 758 00:32:30,130 --> 00:32:32,370 local news organizations have. 759 00:32:32,650 --> 00:32:36,810 Um, really, particularly local news 760 00:32:36,810 --> 00:32:42,250 organizations have to find those stories that 761 00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:46,090 are often untold and amplify voices that are 762 00:32:46,090 --> 00:32:47,170 often unheard. 763 00:32:47,490 --> 00:32:49,490 Um, you know, we have, 764 00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:51,650 we have a long history in, 765 00:32:51,650 --> 00:32:53,370 in the news, in the news, 766 00:32:53,370 --> 00:32:56,810 business and media business of, 767 00:32:57,210 --> 00:33:00,330 of telling you what we think you need to 768 00:33:00,370 --> 00:33:04,530 know. But we haven't historically been so 769 00:33:04,530 --> 00:33:07,610 great at asking you what you need to know, 770 00:33:07,850 --> 00:33:10,850 what's really going on in your community and 771 00:33:10,850 --> 00:33:12,450 your little slice of our, 772 00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:13,810 of our region. 773 00:33:13,970 --> 00:33:17,970 Um, and, and reflecting that back, 774 00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:21,170 um, and meeting the needs of the community. 775 00:33:21,170 --> 00:33:23,410 And that's something that we have a real 776 00:33:23,410 --> 00:33:24,450 responsibility to do. 777 00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:28,380 I think public media particularly because it 778 00:33:28,380 --> 00:33:31,860 has an obligation to serve the whole public, 779 00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:34,300 um, has a responsibility to do. 780 00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:36,460 Um, and that's something that we've been 781 00:33:36,460 --> 00:33:39,020 investing a lot of resources in at Central 782 00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:40,980 Florida public media over the past few years. 783 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:42,580 And we can talk more about that if you want. 784 00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:45,300 But I think the, the point is that if, 785 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,860 if we don't do a good job of reflecting all 786 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,660 those different voices in the full tapestry 787 00:33:51,660 --> 00:33:53,100 that makes up a community, 788 00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:55,780 our community, then the mirror that we're 789 00:33:55,780 --> 00:33:58,060 holding up to, the community is distorted. 790 00:33:58,300 --> 00:33:59,900 It's not an accurate picture. 791 00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:02,660 It's not a full picture of what the community 792 00:34:02,660 --> 00:34:06,100 looks like. And that matters because we, 793 00:34:06,260 --> 00:34:10,580 we, we want to be providing a full picture so 794 00:34:10,580 --> 00:34:13,940 that individuals in the community and 795 00:34:13,940 --> 00:34:16,180 decision makers in the community can take 796 00:34:16,180 --> 00:34:19,220 that information and go and make decisions 797 00:34:19,220 --> 00:34:22,780 about the best way to move forward as an 798 00:34:22,780 --> 00:34:25,310 individual, as a family and as a community 799 00:34:25,310 --> 00:34:27,750 and a region. And if we're holding up as a 800 00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:30,670 distorted or incomplete version of that 801 00:34:30,670 --> 00:34:32,990 picture, then the decisions that are being 802 00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:35,830 made based on it are going to be skewed. 803 00:34:37,230 --> 00:34:39,550 Carol Cox: Judith, I remember during your presentation 804 00:34:39,550 --> 00:34:42,150 that you mentioned an example that there was 805 00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:43,990 a, I think it was a county commission 806 00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:46,590 meeting, and there was a report that you had 807 00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:48,750 done, and then some of the commissioners had 808 00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:50,470 seen it. Can you tell us a little bit about 809 00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:52,790 that? I think it's a great example of the 810 00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:56,230 importance of local media and finding those 811 00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:57,430 stories and voices. 812 00:34:57,790 --> 00:34:59,630 Judith Smelser: Yeah. So this was, um, 813 00:34:59,630 --> 00:35:02,030 this was a question of an eminent domain 814 00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:04,990 process, this technical stuff that the 815 00:35:04,990 --> 00:35:06,270 commission deals with, 816 00:35:06,270 --> 00:35:08,390 but it was an eminent domain process where 817 00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:10,030 the expressway authority, 818 00:35:10,430 --> 00:35:11,830 this is an ongoing issue, 819 00:35:11,870 --> 00:35:14,830 wants to acquire some land from Orange County 820 00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:16,950 to build an expressway, 821 00:35:17,390 --> 00:35:20,390 part of which will go through a place called 822 00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:22,230 Split Oak Forest, which is some 823 00:35:22,270 --> 00:35:24,370 environmentally sensitive, environmentally 824 00:35:24,370 --> 00:35:25,490 preserved land. 825 00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:27,530 And a lot of environmentalists in the 826 00:35:27,530 --> 00:35:29,290 community are concerned about it. 827 00:35:29,370 --> 00:35:33,010 Um, we have a beat reporter who covers the 828 00:35:33,010 --> 00:35:36,290 environment, the local environment issues. 829 00:35:36,330 --> 00:35:37,610 Her name is Molly Derrig. 830 00:35:37,890 --> 00:35:40,450 And, um, and she'd been, 831 00:35:40,490 --> 00:35:42,650 you know, covering this blow by blow, 832 00:35:42,650 --> 00:35:45,010 every twist and turn of this very technical 833 00:35:45,050 --> 00:35:48,050 process. And she had reported out when the 834 00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:49,810 expressway authority was, 835 00:35:50,170 --> 00:35:52,090 was, was considering, uh, 836 00:35:52,090 --> 00:35:54,450 this eminent domain, um, 837 00:35:54,970 --> 00:35:59,370 process and, and elevated it in the public 838 00:35:59,370 --> 00:36:03,450 debate and at a county commission meeting, 839 00:36:03,450 --> 00:36:06,890 not not long after this reporting had come 840 00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:09,490 out, um, one of the county commissioners, 841 00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:12,690 Nicole Wilson, said in the meeting that if it 842 00:36:12,690 --> 00:36:17,130 had not been for our reporter Molly's work 843 00:36:17,130 --> 00:36:18,770 and reporting on this issue, 844 00:36:18,810 --> 00:36:21,010 that the commission probably wouldn't even be 845 00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:23,940 having the conversation that day about that 846 00:36:23,940 --> 00:36:26,260 issue, that it probably would have just gone 847 00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:28,420 through the expressway authority board on 848 00:36:28,420 --> 00:36:30,860 consent, meaning without discussion, 849 00:36:30,860 --> 00:36:34,140 without anything but but a perfunctory vote. 850 00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:37,580 But because Molly had had shown a light on it 851 00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:39,980 and allowed the public to start talking about 852 00:36:39,980 --> 00:36:42,420 it, then of course, the public talks to the 853 00:36:42,420 --> 00:36:44,340 commissioners because that's how democracy 854 00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:47,020 works. And and the commissioners then brought 855 00:36:47,020 --> 00:36:48,900 it up in that meeting. 856 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:51,900 They actually decided to reject the 857 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,180 expressway authority's bid to acquire this 858 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:55,940 property. Now, this is still going back and 859 00:36:55,940 --> 00:36:57,700 forth, and Molly is still reporting on it. 860 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:59,100 She's still on the case. 861 00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:03,460 Um, the point is here that we as a news 862 00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:05,300 organization, as Central Florida Public 863 00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:07,700 Media, we do not have a position on where 864 00:37:07,700 --> 00:37:08,740 this should come out. 865 00:37:08,740 --> 00:37:09,900 That's not our job. 866 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:14,580 Um, our job though is to elevate the issue, 867 00:37:14,860 --> 00:37:18,300 let people know, shine a light on what's 868 00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:20,620 going on so that people in the community who 869 00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:24,150 do care about it on both sides can see. 870 00:37:24,190 --> 00:37:26,230 Oh, this is happening. 871 00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:27,950 And there's something critical that's going 872 00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:29,670 to. Going to be voted on here. 873 00:37:29,870 --> 00:37:33,950 Um, and if if I want my position to be heard, 874 00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:35,550 then I need to contact my elected 875 00:37:35,550 --> 00:37:37,910 representative and tell them that again. 876 00:37:37,990 --> 00:37:39,870 That's how democracy works. 877 00:37:40,430 --> 00:37:43,710 You know, the press, the free press is is in 878 00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:45,430 the First Amendment for a reason. 879 00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:48,710 It's called the fourth estate for a reason. 880 00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:51,590 Because if the founding Fathers, 881 00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:55,310 in their wisdom, realized that if there is 882 00:37:55,310 --> 00:37:58,630 not accurate independent information, 883 00:37:58,870 --> 00:38:00,590 then a democracy can't work. 884 00:38:00,830 --> 00:38:03,710 You know, if there's if there's not reliable 885 00:38:03,710 --> 00:38:08,070 access and easy access to good information 886 00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:10,230 about what decisions are being made and being 887 00:38:10,230 --> 00:38:13,030 discussed, then the public can't participate 888 00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:14,870 in their government. And then we don't have a 889 00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:17,950 democracy. And that that story to me. 890 00:38:18,190 --> 00:38:20,110 You know, I, I told Molly, 891 00:38:20,110 --> 00:38:23,560 our reporter. I would rather that than a 892 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:24,960 whole stack of awards. 893 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,720 That is the impact that we're trying to have. 894 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,800 That is why journalism exists. 895 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,400 It's to give the community some shared, 896 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,800 trusted facts from which to go and have a 897 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,680 debate on the best way to move forward. 898 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,640 Carol Cox: Yeah, and I so appreciate that example. 899 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,240 And let's that's a good segue into the 900 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,720 speaking that you're doing as president and 901 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:48,000 GM of Central Florida Public Media. 902 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,320 I saw you speak and I remembered quite a bit 903 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:51,960 from your presentation, which I have brought 904 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,720 here to the podcast interview, 905 00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,320 because the stories, the examples and your 906 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,520 passion, your vision that you have, 907 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,880 all of that comes through so clearly. 908 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,280 So tell me a little bit about how have you 909 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,040 found your voice, you know, 910 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,880 speaking on behalf of a public media 911 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,360 organization, which was, 912 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,120 as you mentioned, different than being a 913 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,040 journalist and being a reporter. 914 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,720 Judith Smelser: Yeah, it's true, because as, 915 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:18,760 as a journalist, we, we are always taught 916 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,610 that the story is not about you. 917 00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,450 The story is about the people you're 918 00:39:22,450 --> 00:39:23,850 reporting on and the issues that you're 919 00:39:23,850 --> 00:39:25,770 reporting on. So that's a that's a different 920 00:39:25,810 --> 00:39:28,570 type of voice. You're you fade into the 921 00:39:28,570 --> 00:39:29,810 background so that your, 922 00:39:29,850 --> 00:39:31,690 the stories that you're telling can, can rise 923 00:39:31,690 --> 00:39:34,770 to the top. Um, in my role now. 924 00:39:34,810 --> 00:39:35,930 Yeah, it's a different, 925 00:39:35,930 --> 00:39:37,010 it's a different thing. 926 00:39:37,130 --> 00:39:40,250 Um, and I think finding my voice has been an 927 00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:42,610 interesting process. My voice in that role. 928 00:39:42,850 --> 00:39:48,690 Um, I, I somehow organically just felt, 929 00:39:48,890 --> 00:39:53,810 um, a need to, as I said earlier, 930 00:39:54,570 --> 00:39:56,890 have someone speaking out for local 931 00:39:56,890 --> 00:39:59,370 journalism, not just for my organization, 932 00:39:59,370 --> 00:40:01,730 but for local journalism as a whole. 933 00:40:02,010 --> 00:40:05,370 Um, and the importance of it as a public good 934 00:40:05,370 --> 00:40:06,490 in our community. 935 00:40:06,690 --> 00:40:10,610 And so I even from the first opportunity that 936 00:40:10,610 --> 00:40:14,690 I had to speak, I really focused on that, 937 00:40:14,850 --> 00:40:17,290 um, on the power of local journalism, 938 00:40:17,290 --> 00:40:19,590 on the importance of it as a public good. 939 00:40:19,590 --> 00:40:23,630 And I've, I've expanded on that theme. 940 00:40:23,950 --> 00:40:26,510 Um, as I've spoken over time. 941 00:40:27,150 --> 00:40:30,110 The other thing I think I have really leaned 942 00:40:30,110 --> 00:40:32,830 into in terms of finding my voice, 943 00:40:32,830 --> 00:40:34,630 both as a spokesperson, 944 00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:38,710 but also as a leader of my own organization 945 00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:41,590 internally is really leaning into 946 00:40:41,630 --> 00:40:44,390 authenticity and transparency. 947 00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:47,350 Um, you know, you said earlier you could, 948 00:40:47,350 --> 00:40:49,430 you could hear the passion in my voice. 949 00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:51,670 I couldn't do this job if I didn't believe in 950 00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:53,590 it. I couldn't go and, 951 00:40:53,590 --> 00:40:56,910 and run some organization or company that I 952 00:40:56,910 --> 00:41:00,070 didn't feel a real passion for the mission 953 00:41:00,070 --> 00:41:02,550 of. Um, because that's just not who I am. 954 00:41:02,670 --> 00:41:04,870 And so I think, um, you know, 955 00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:08,870 I value authenticity over polish and over 956 00:41:08,910 --> 00:41:11,350 perfection because I think that resonates 957 00:41:11,350 --> 00:41:13,270 more and it's more in my comfort zone. 958 00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:15,710 Um, I think the transparency piece, 959 00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:16,950 especially internally, 960 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:20,160 but externally as well is also really 961 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,640 appreciated. Um, and really critical, 962 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,960 especially at a time when so much is unknown. 963 00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:30,240 Um, you know, being comfortable and 964 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,240 vulnerable about the things that you don't 965 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,240 know, taking a page from Brene Brown, 966 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,160 right? Um, vulnerability is, 967 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,920 is, is power in a lot of ways, 968 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,720 but there is no way that anyone in a role 969 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,280 like, like mine could possibly have all the 970 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,840 direct expertise, um, that you would need to 971 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,520 be hands on in all the different facets of 972 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,200 the organization, um, and of the industry. 973 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:00,720 And so leaning into what you know, 974 00:42:00,720 --> 00:42:02,880 and what you don't, leading through 975 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,320 uncertainty in funding, 976 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,840 in industry trends, etc. 977 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,800 means admitting what you don't know and being 978 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:12,160 clear about, you know, 979 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,880 when we were going through that whole funding 980 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,120 fight last year and my, 981 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,650 my team was asking me for for answers that I 982 00:42:19,690 --> 00:42:20,770 didn't have. 983 00:42:20,970 --> 00:42:22,690 It was so frustrating. 984 00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:24,690 But all I could do was to say, 985 00:42:24,850 --> 00:42:26,330 you know, I really leaned into my, 986 00:42:26,330 --> 00:42:28,370 my reporting background at that time. 987 00:42:28,650 --> 00:42:29,730 Here's what I know. 988 00:42:29,850 --> 00:42:31,290 Here's what I don't know. 989 00:42:31,650 --> 00:42:34,130 And I will tell you as soon as I know. 990 00:42:34,610 --> 00:42:38,770 Um, and, and that was just the mantra it had 991 00:42:38,770 --> 00:42:41,570 to be, uh, and I think that that was part of 992 00:42:41,570 --> 00:42:42,970 finding my voice too was, 993 00:42:42,970 --> 00:42:45,850 was acknowledging that I cannot know 994 00:42:45,850 --> 00:42:47,290 everything I need to know. 995 00:42:48,370 --> 00:42:51,010 Anyone who sits in a role like this and tells 996 00:42:51,010 --> 00:42:54,210 you they know everything is being 997 00:42:54,210 --> 00:42:55,290 disingenuous. 998 00:42:55,690 --> 00:43:00,090 Um, and, and people really appreciate when 999 00:43:00,090 --> 00:43:03,410 you are honest with them about what, 1000 00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:05,690 you know, what you don't know what you're 1001 00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:06,850 trying to find out. 1002 00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:11,290 Carol Cox: I appreciate the, the emphasis on 1003 00:43:11,290 --> 00:43:13,290 authenticity over perfection. 1004 00:43:13,290 --> 00:43:16,940 I know that I work with a lot of clients over 1005 00:43:16,940 --> 00:43:20,300 the years. And some of them have, 1006 00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:22,860 um, you know, feel felt. 1007 00:43:23,140 --> 00:43:25,060 This probably is the perfectionist side of 1008 00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:26,700 them. And, you know, I have a little bit in 1009 00:43:26,740 --> 00:43:29,460 me as well. And, uh, in recovery, 1010 00:43:29,580 --> 00:43:31,260 you know, I'm much better than I was when I 1011 00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:34,460 was younger, but they feel like they have to 1012 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:37,580 have everything so perfect before they can 1013 00:43:37,580 --> 00:43:39,340 use their voice, whether it's stepping on a 1014 00:43:39,340 --> 00:43:41,580 stage or a podcast interview or a media 1015 00:43:41,580 --> 00:43:43,140 interview or what have you. And of course, we 1016 00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:45,340 try to coach, coach them through that. 1017 00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:47,380 And then what also creeps up for a lot of 1018 00:43:47,380 --> 00:43:49,380 them is imposter syndrome. 1019 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:51,660 No matter how credentialed and accomplished 1020 00:43:51,660 --> 00:43:53,620 and experienced they are, 1021 00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:55,380 is that they feel like someone in the 1022 00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:58,300 audience is going to almost like stand up and 1023 00:43:58,300 --> 00:43:59,420 be like, you're a fraud. 1024 00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:01,180 You know, you don't know what you're talking 1025 00:44:01,180 --> 00:44:02,620 about. And of course, this is all in their 1026 00:44:02,620 --> 00:44:05,700 head and they recognize it's mostly in their 1027 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:08,420 head, but they feel it and it does tend to 1028 00:44:08,460 --> 00:44:09,540 hold them back. 1029 00:44:09,860 --> 00:44:12,140 And, you know, our mission here is speaking 1030 00:44:12,140 --> 00:44:14,660 your brand is to amplify women's voices and 1031 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,200 encourage more women to be in positions of 1032 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,960 leadership, business, media, 1033 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,360 politics and so on. 1034 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,520 And so I'm always encouraging them to put 1035 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,840 themselves out there because we need we need 1036 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,440 them to. Yet. And I, and I know that, 1037 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:29,720 you know, you're shaking your head that you 1038 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:32,120 can relate to this, but but so many of us and 1039 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,480 I have done this in my career, 1040 00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,800 hold ourselves back. 1041 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,080 So what do we do? Judith. 1042 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,560 Judith Smelser: I don't have all the answers for you, 1043 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:43,360 Carol. I feel imposter syndrome all the time. 1044 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,040 Um, you know, it's it's gotten a little 1045 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,120 better over the over the years I've been 1046 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,600 doing this job, but I still have it. 1047 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,600 Absolutely. You know, I remember, 1048 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:54,360 um, sitting in a meeting. 1049 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,280 I was invited to be in a meeting that the 1050 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,520 Corporation for Public Broadcasting, 1051 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,720 which is the dearly departed organization 1052 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:06,520 that was the conduit for our federal funding, 1053 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,040 um, had organized to sort of have 1054 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:10,760 conversations about the future of the 1055 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,840 industry. And I was very honored to be in 1056 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,650 this room. I'd probably only been in this job 1057 00:45:15,650 --> 00:45:19,810 for a year or so, and I'm in this room with, 1058 00:45:19,970 --> 00:45:24,170 um, probably about 20 of public media 1059 00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:26,250 organizations from around the country, 1060 00:45:26,450 --> 00:45:28,090 most of whom were men. 1061 00:45:28,450 --> 00:45:33,170 Um, and I will, I will tell you in the spirit 1062 00:45:33,170 --> 00:45:36,410 of vulnerability that I walked out of the 1063 00:45:36,410 --> 00:45:38,330 second day, this was a two day meeting. 1064 00:45:38,330 --> 00:45:40,130 I walked out of the second day of this 1065 00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:43,530 meeting. I came downstairs in the hotel that 1066 00:45:43,530 --> 00:45:45,730 it was being held in, and I was meeting my 1067 00:45:45,730 --> 00:45:48,170 husband in the in the cafe there, 1068 00:45:48,330 --> 00:45:49,770 and I burst into tears. 1069 00:45:50,050 --> 00:45:53,410 I, I felt completely out of my depth. 1070 00:45:53,650 --> 00:45:54,690 I felt like, you know, 1071 00:45:54,730 --> 00:45:56,530 what am I doing here? I have no idea. 1072 00:45:56,530 --> 00:45:58,250 These people know everything. I don't know 1073 00:45:58,250 --> 00:46:01,730 anything. Um, and I, I had a conversation 1074 00:46:01,730 --> 00:46:03,490 after this meeting, um, 1075 00:46:03,490 --> 00:46:07,210 after I was back home with a guy who was in 1076 00:46:07,250 --> 00:46:09,290 that room, who was one of the GM's that was 1077 00:46:09,290 --> 00:46:11,570 in the room. And I had known him for a very 1078 00:46:11,570 --> 00:46:13,140 long time in the, in the system, 1079 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:14,740 in the public media system. And he had he had 1080 00:46:14,780 --> 00:46:17,020 had a very similar path to mine in that he 1081 00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:19,580 was a reporter and a news director and then 1082 00:46:19,580 --> 00:46:21,620 and then CEO of a couple of public media 1083 00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:23,460 organizations. And he'd been doing it for 1084 00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:26,580 longer than I had, and I told him how I felt. 1085 00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:30,100 And he said, he said, and he he is the 1086 00:46:30,100 --> 00:46:31,580 definition of an ally. 1087 00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:34,380 Um, he, he said, you know, 1088 00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:37,620 men have a tendency to say things that 1089 00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:39,900 they're not quite sure of as though they know 1090 00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:42,620 them for sure. And women generally have a 1091 00:46:42,620 --> 00:46:46,060 tendency to only speak confidently when they 1092 00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:47,580 are 100% sure. 1093 00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:53,140 And, um, I appreciated him saying that I've 1094 00:46:53,140 --> 00:46:57,300 never really been someone who spent a lot of 1095 00:46:57,300 --> 00:46:59,540 time thinking about differences between men 1096 00:46:59,540 --> 00:47:01,740 and women, spent a lot of time dwelling on 1097 00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:03,060 sexism in the workplace, 1098 00:47:03,060 --> 00:47:04,580 any of that, even though certainly I've 1099 00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:09,340 experienced it. But having somebody who was a 1100 00:47:09,340 --> 00:47:15,070 man say that to me in those terms really has 1101 00:47:15,070 --> 00:47:17,750 helped me think about things a little 1102 00:47:17,750 --> 00:47:22,230 differently. Um, and, and to not just assume 1103 00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:24,390 that when someone, whatever gender they may 1104 00:47:24,430 --> 00:47:27,470 be, says something with confidence and 1105 00:47:27,470 --> 00:47:30,870 authority that they, they actually know 1106 00:47:31,590 --> 00:47:34,430 everything that they're saying to be true. 1107 00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:36,910 Um, and so I, I think, 1108 00:47:37,150 --> 00:47:39,310 you know, that's, that's a big part of it. 1109 00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:42,230 Um, I'm a perfectionist too. 1110 00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:46,230 I was on the radio for many, 1111 00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:47,910 many years in my career. 1112 00:47:48,150 --> 00:47:50,390 Uh, you're not supposed to stumble. 1113 00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:52,310 You're not supposed to mess up. 1114 00:47:52,510 --> 00:47:54,990 I remember the first time I guest hosted, 1115 00:47:55,070 --> 00:47:57,630 uh, at the time we had a call in show. 1116 00:47:57,910 --> 00:48:00,590 Um, I overprepared. 1117 00:48:00,750 --> 00:48:03,990 I had so many stacks and stacks of notes, 1118 00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:06,190 uh, so much more than I ever could have 1119 00:48:06,190 --> 00:48:07,710 needed, because I wanted to be prepared for 1120 00:48:07,710 --> 00:48:09,310 every eventuality. 1121 00:48:09,350 --> 00:48:11,890 You can't be prepared for every eventuality. 1122 00:48:12,210 --> 00:48:15,410 Um, you just have to jump in and do it. 1123 00:48:15,610 --> 00:48:18,170 Uh, and you're probably if you are a 1124 00:48:18,170 --> 00:48:20,690 perfectionist, like I tend to be, 1125 00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:24,170 um, you're probably incapable of being 1126 00:48:24,210 --> 00:48:25,810 unprepared, you know? 1127 00:48:25,850 --> 00:48:27,890 You know, even if you prepare what you think 1128 00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:31,450 is 80%, it's probably still 110%. 1129 00:48:31,690 --> 00:48:35,050 So, you know, I think just being thrown into 1130 00:48:35,050 --> 00:48:38,290 these situations can sometimes be the way 1131 00:48:38,290 --> 00:48:40,210 through. You know, you've got to go through a 1132 00:48:40,210 --> 00:48:44,330 few of them and realize that the world didn't 1133 00:48:44,330 --> 00:48:47,730 end when you put yourself out there and maybe 1134 00:48:47,970 --> 00:48:49,610 you stumbled on the air. 1135 00:48:49,650 --> 00:48:51,610 In my case, yes, I've done it. 1136 00:48:51,850 --> 00:48:53,770 You can tune in to the next fund drive and 1137 00:48:53,770 --> 00:48:55,650 hear me do it. Um, you know, 1138 00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:58,050 maybe, maybe you maybe you made another 1139 00:48:58,050 --> 00:49:00,850 mistake that you feel stupid about, 1140 00:49:00,850 --> 00:49:03,530 and no one died in the world didn't end. 1141 00:49:03,850 --> 00:49:06,330 So I think, you know, you just. 1142 00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:08,410 And if you make a really bad error, 1143 00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:10,380 you know, in in journalism, 1144 00:49:10,700 --> 00:49:14,860 general ethics commits us to being 1145 00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:16,820 transparent about our mistakes. We all have a 1146 00:49:16,820 --> 00:49:18,980 corrections policy. Any bona fide news news 1147 00:49:18,980 --> 00:49:21,220 organization should have a corrections policy 1148 00:49:21,220 --> 00:49:23,540 where if you make a mistake, 1149 00:49:23,580 --> 00:49:26,580 an error of fact, you go back and correct it 1150 00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:28,460 and you and you say what you did, 1151 00:49:28,780 --> 00:49:31,180 you know, and that's sometimes you got to do 1152 00:49:31,180 --> 00:49:32,940 that. We're all human. 1153 00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:35,420 Um, but there's no magic bullet. 1154 00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:38,220 It's just it's just jumping in there and 1155 00:49:38,220 --> 00:49:38,820 doing it. 1156 00:49:39,580 --> 00:49:41,980 Carol Cox: Well, thank you for sharing that vulnerable 1157 00:49:41,980 --> 00:49:43,460 story. I know that, you know, 1158 00:49:43,540 --> 00:49:47,020 I appreciate that and the listeners will as 1159 00:49:47,020 --> 00:49:49,900 well. And, uh, I also appreciate that you 1160 00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:51,660 said about just the repetition, 1161 00:49:51,660 --> 00:49:52,980 keep doing it because I know, 1162 00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:56,300 you know, I've done live TV so many times now 1163 00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:57,860 and in the first few times. 1164 00:49:57,860 --> 00:49:59,180 Yeah. Like my heart's race, 1165 00:49:59,220 --> 00:50:00,540 like beating out of my chest. 1166 00:50:00,540 --> 00:50:02,100 I don't know how I was going to make it 1167 00:50:02,100 --> 00:50:03,580 through, right? Like the nerves. 1168 00:50:04,780 --> 00:50:07,300 If you only do it once every few years, 1169 00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:09,070 of course it's going to be nerve wracking 1170 00:50:09,070 --> 00:50:10,830 because your body, your mind, 1171 00:50:10,830 --> 00:50:12,070 you're not used to it. 1172 00:50:12,070 --> 00:50:14,790 But if you're doing it weekend and week out 1173 00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:16,750 or day in or day out or whatever it happens 1174 00:50:16,750 --> 00:50:19,030 to be. It's like, I got another podcast 1175 00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:20,550 episode next week that comes out. 1176 00:50:20,550 --> 00:50:22,670 I got the next video that's going to come 1177 00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:24,630 out. I can't worry so much about the one that 1178 00:50:24,630 --> 00:50:26,790 just happened because I got to keep doing the 1179 00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:27,430 next one. 1180 00:50:28,110 --> 00:50:29,470 Judith Smelser: That's absolutely right. 1181 00:50:29,470 --> 00:50:30,830 Yeah, repetition is key. 1182 00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:34,230 And, and, and the public speaking that I do, 1183 00:50:34,670 --> 00:50:35,990 if I haven't done it in a while. 1184 00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:37,630 Yeah, I get the butterflies and, 1185 00:50:37,630 --> 00:50:39,230 and the other thing I would say is, 1186 00:50:39,430 --> 00:50:43,230 you know, I grew up, I grew up on stage. 1187 00:50:43,230 --> 00:50:44,950 As I said earlier, my parents are both 1188 00:50:44,950 --> 00:50:46,790 musicians and I've been performing all my 1189 00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:49,230 life. A little bit of butterflies is a good 1190 00:50:49,230 --> 00:50:50,710 thing. That's adrenaline. 1191 00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:53,350 And it's what it's what fuels you. 1192 00:50:53,350 --> 00:50:55,470 It's what sharpens your mind. 1193 00:50:55,670 --> 00:50:56,950 If if there's too much of it, 1194 00:50:56,990 --> 00:50:58,950 it overwhelms you. But a little bit of it is 1195 00:50:58,950 --> 00:51:01,070 good. And so if you get to the point where 1196 00:51:01,070 --> 00:51:03,190 you don't have any before you step on stage, 1197 00:51:03,190 --> 00:51:04,310 then something's wrong. 1198 00:51:04,550 --> 00:51:07,310 Um, but, but a little bit is good and the 1199 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,520 more you do it, the more it's the good 1200 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,400 adrenaline and not the paralyzing kinds. 1201 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,280 Carol Cox: Right? Yes, exactly. 1202 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:18,880 Judith, I have so enjoyed this conversation. 1203 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:20,440 Thank you for so much for coming on the 1204 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,160 podcast. I would love for you to share with 1205 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:25,280 the audience calls to action because we're 1206 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,480 allowed to do that here. 1207 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,520 So you can tell us how great Central Florida 1208 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,880 Public Media is the best organization in the 1209 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,320 country. I will say that. 1210 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,120 And, uh, so I'm just going to make a pitch 1211 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,960 though, and have you make a pitch for public 1212 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,880 media organizations across the country. No 1213 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,120 matter where listeners are, 1214 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,680 I'm sure they can Google and find their local 1215 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:44,600 public media. 1216 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,040 Judith Smelser: Yes, absolutely. 1217 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,640 Please find your local public media outlet 1218 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:53,000 and know that they depend on you for 100% of 1219 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:54,520 their funding. Now, um, 1220 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:58,600 if you have the capability to give a gift, 1221 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,360 they all have big donate buttons on their web 1222 00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:04,200 pages. I encourage you to make an investment 1223 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,400 and know that it's not just throwing pennies 1224 00:52:06,540 --> 00:52:09,220 at something. It's it's really making an 1225 00:52:09,220 --> 00:52:11,220 investment in your community when you make a 1226 00:52:11,260 --> 00:52:12,580 gift to public media. 1227 00:52:12,620 --> 00:52:15,220 You're investing in a community that is more 1228 00:52:15,220 --> 00:52:16,700 engaged, more informed, 1229 00:52:16,700 --> 00:52:18,620 more connected, more educated, 1230 00:52:18,620 --> 00:52:21,300 and frankly, more civil because that's what 1231 00:52:21,300 --> 00:52:23,380 we're about. We're about civil dialogue, 1232 00:52:23,380 --> 00:52:24,900 civil civic dialogue. 1233 00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:26,620 The other thing I would encourage you to do 1234 00:52:26,620 --> 00:52:28,540 is go out to their events. 1235 00:52:28,580 --> 00:52:30,660 You know, we we all host really, 1236 00:52:30,660 --> 00:52:33,460 really interesting and sometimes even fun 1237 00:52:33,500 --> 00:52:35,940 events. Um, you know, we've got an event 1238 00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:38,860 coming up next month called engage in the 1239 00:52:38,860 --> 00:52:40,900 community, which is an event series that's 1240 00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:43,020 tied to our local public affairs show, 1241 00:52:43,060 --> 00:52:44,340 which is called engage. 1242 00:52:44,340 --> 00:52:45,340 And this one's going to be about 1243 00:52:45,340 --> 00:52:47,340 redistricting, and we're going to have a 1244 00:52:47,340 --> 00:52:49,380 conversation about redistricting. 1245 00:52:49,860 --> 00:52:51,420 And we're going to have interactive 1246 00:52:51,420 --> 00:52:53,460 activities and ways that people can give 1247 00:52:53,500 --> 00:52:55,620 input and share their own perspectives, 1248 00:52:55,620 --> 00:52:57,660 their own voices, their own experiences. 1249 00:52:57,660 --> 00:53:00,020 And public media outlets around the country 1250 00:53:00,020 --> 00:53:02,740 are doing that type of engagement work 1251 00:53:02,740 --> 00:53:05,870 because we all want to do a better and better 1252 00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:08,670 job of reflecting those those quiet voices, 1253 00:53:08,670 --> 00:53:10,550 those voices that we don't always hear. 1254 00:53:10,550 --> 00:53:13,030 So find out what your local public media 1255 00:53:13,070 --> 00:53:14,150 outlet is doing. 1256 00:53:14,790 --> 00:53:17,230 Go out to an event, get involved, 1257 00:53:17,230 --> 00:53:19,790 and of course, make a donation if you can. 1258 00:53:20,550 --> 00:53:22,750 Carol Cox: Yes, just sign up $10 a month, 1259 00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:24,110 whatever it happens to be, 1260 00:53:24,150 --> 00:53:26,070 it goes a long way and makes a big 1261 00:53:26,070 --> 00:53:27,790 difference. And of course, 1262 00:53:27,790 --> 00:53:30,150 if you are here in the Central Florida area, 1263 00:53:30,190 --> 00:53:32,510 make sure to support Central Florida Public 1264 00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:35,190 Media. The link is in the show notes. 1265 00:53:35,190 --> 00:53:37,710 And also make sure to connect to Judith and 1266 00:53:37,710 --> 00:53:39,590 let her know that you heard her on the 1267 00:53:39,590 --> 00:53:40,630 podcast. Well, Judith, 1268 00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:42,470 thank you so much for being here. 1269 00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:44,510 Judith Smelser: Thank you Carol. It's been a real pleasure. 1270 00:53:45,310 --> 00:53:47,230 Carol Cox: Until next time. Thanks for listening.