WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.500 --> 00:00:01.280 Michele: Colleen. 00:00:01.780 --> 00:00:08.731 I am dying to know how the Refine launch went. 00:00:09.233 --> 00:00:09.803 Colleen: Okay. 00:00:09.833 --> 00:00:14.873 First of all, let's not call it a launch because it wasn't really a launch. 00:00:14.903 --> 00:00:15.593 It was 00:00:15.893 --> 00:00:18.833 Michele: Letting people know they can buy it things. 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:20.260 Colleen: Right. 00:00:20.470 --> 00:00:23.853 So it went poorly. 00:00:24.347 --> 00:00:25.877 Michele: No. 00:00:26.227 --> 00:00:28.927 Colleen: But I don't think that, I don't want to say poorly. 00:00:28.927 --> 00:00:30.427 I don't know if that's the right word. 00:00:30.427 --> 00:00:35.579 It was a good step in the right direction, but we did not get any 00:00:35.639 --> 00:00:37.889 sales based off of that email. 00:00:38.194 --> 00:00:42.094 Michele: Did you get any sales after that email? 00:00:43.364 --> 00:00:46.364 So how many sales have you had? 00:00:46.864 --> 00:00:52.014 Colleen: I want to say five total over the course of the product. 00:00:52.074 --> 00:00:55.164 So we didn't get any, and all five of those people like had 00:00:55.164 --> 00:00:57.174 found us on Twitter, or knew us. 00:00:57.564 --> 00:01:00.204 So we did not get any stranger money. 00:01:01.730 --> 00:01:05.990 Michele: Oh, um, I've been like bingeing hammerstone don't podcast this week. 00:01:06.080 --> 00:01:11.270 Um, I feel so bad we haven't been able to make that recording happened by 00:01:11.270 --> 00:01:14.295 the way, like we have, so slammed. 00:01:14.295 --> 00:01:16.095 And like, I was just talking to Mathias earlier. 00:01:16.095 --> 00:01:19.125 It's like, yeah, like where are we going to do that this week? 00:01:19.125 --> 00:01:21.265 And he's like, yeah, I can like no, we can do that. 00:01:21.265 --> 00:01:23.865 And I was like, but it isn't it going to take, several hours to deploy it. 00:01:23.865 --> 00:01:26.565 And we're in the middle of a massive server migration and like, 00:01:27.065 --> 00:01:32.025 and it was like, oh yeah, I guess so, so it was like, okay, so maybe 00:01:32.475 --> 00:01:34.365 next week we're going to do it. 00:01:34.425 --> 00:01:34.905 Like. 00:01:35.409 --> 00:01:37.629 Colleen: I think here's what I think the deal is Michelle. 00:01:37.659 --> 00:01:42.899 I think that our primary product is not for Nova. 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.769 And we have created the Nova integration for people like you and we have another 00:01:46.769 --> 00:01:51.029 Nova client, but ultimately, you know, Aaron and I talked a little bit about 00:01:51.029 --> 00:01:54.269 this on the hammer stone podcast, which hasn't come out yet, which is why 00:01:54.269 --> 00:01:59.159 you haven't heard it, but ultimately the way Laravel does its pricing. 00:01:59.655 --> 00:02:05.314 So, I guess the way Taylor prices Nova and other Laravel software 00:02:05.314 --> 00:02:07.654 packages is he has a huge reach. 00:02:07.984 --> 00:02:10.684 So things are very, very inexpensive. 00:02:11.437 --> 00:02:14.667 And so there is a theory. 00:02:14.667 --> 00:02:20.277 We have a theory that like Laravel Bell devs expect really, really good 00:02:20.277 --> 00:02:22.347 software to be really, really cheap. 00:02:22.827 --> 00:02:26.037 And so Nova is only $300, once. 00:02:26.247 --> 00:02:31.737 So for us to come in on top of that with no marketing with just, hey, we're 00:02:31.737 --> 00:02:36.027 nice, you should buy our software and to price it at a thousand dollars annually. 00:02:36.357 --> 00:02:41.247 I think that's a hard sell for people that don't have this pain 00:02:41.247 --> 00:02:45.507 point or they don't, it doesn't feel incredibly painful to them. 00:02:45.957 --> 00:02:48.037 And I think a lot of that too is on me and Aaron. 00:02:48.117 --> 00:02:52.580 We got something out there to get something out there, but we didn't do, 00:02:52.610 --> 00:02:53.870 we didn't do any kind of drip emails. 00:02:53.870 --> 00:02:55.700 We didn't do any kind of marketing emails. 00:02:56.200 --> 00:03:01.030 And our landing page is so much better than it was, but people are still confused 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:05.984 when they go to our landing page in terms of like what the product does. 00:03:06.044 --> 00:03:09.584 So, what I'm trying to say is of course it was a disappointment. 00:03:09.614 --> 00:03:13.994 Like, wouldn't it have been amazing, if we sent one email and got five sales. 00:03:14.114 --> 00:03:15.974 We sent one email and got zero sales. 00:03:16.304 --> 00:03:20.384 Of course that's a disappointment, but it's just, it's just the 00:03:20.384 --> 00:03:21.704 foot off the block, right? 00:03:21.704 --> 00:03:23.804 This is just the starting point. 00:03:24.402 --> 00:03:27.855 Michele: So something in there that I think, dive into a bit more because 00:03:27.855 --> 00:03:31.905 I don't, I think I disagree with you that this is something specific 00:03:31.905 --> 00:03:36.585 to Laravel developers, but you said something in there that I think is worth 00:03:37.082 --> 00:03:43.312 exploring, which is that for people who do not experience this problem or 00:03:43.342 --> 00:03:49.392 who don't regularly experience this problem, it's too expensive, which is 00:03:50.042 --> 00:03:54.422 a broadly applicable concept, right? 00:03:54.422 --> 00:03:57.782 Like this is when we're talking about, you know, customer interviews, like 00:03:57.782 --> 00:04:02.515 talk to the people who have a frequent and painful, who experienced that 00:04:02.515 --> 00:04:04.225 problem frequently and painfully. 00:04:04.345 --> 00:04:04.705 Right. 00:04:04.975 --> 00:04:09.195 Because if you try to sell me something, even if it's amazing, 00:04:09.675 --> 00:04:11.775 but I don't experience that problem. 00:04:11.805 --> 00:04:13.845 Or I experience it once a year for 10. 00:04:14.845 --> 00:04:18.715 I'm just not going to buy something to solve it because 00:04:19.195 --> 00:04:21.475 it's not a problem in my life. 00:04:21.925 --> 00:04:27.642 And so I think it's less that like people who use Laravel are not used 00:04:27.642 --> 00:04:29.022 to paying a high price for that. 00:04:29.022 --> 00:04:32.799 Like, by the way, the way I read his pricing is that it's like, there's very 00:04:32.799 --> 00:04:36.849 much an element of agency's baked into that and like freelance developers who, 00:04:38.202 --> 00:04:42.462 it's only $300 per site, but if you're a freelance developer, who's building, 00:04:42.492 --> 00:04:47.925 you know, 12 sites a year or more, or an agency that adds up really quickly. 00:04:47.985 --> 00:04:48.375 Right. 00:04:48.705 --> 00:04:50.775 They're just not necessarily paying for it themselves. 00:04:51.275 --> 00:04:51.635 I don't know. 00:04:51.735 --> 00:04:56.565 I guess we should just ask Taylor what his pricing philosophy is, uh, 00:04:56.595 --> 00:04:58.695 rather than trying to guess it, but. 00:04:59.450 --> 00:04:59.900 But, yeah. 00:04:59.900 --> 00:05:03.620 So I think it's maybe a question of you just haven't found the people that 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:08.080 experience it, like painfully enough and like, you know, I like you and Aaron were 00:05:08.080 --> 00:05:14.519 talking on the hammer stone podcast about how, managers probably experienced this, 00:05:14.859 --> 00:05:19.299 the general problem of like, I would rather buy a tool than have my developers 00:05:19.299 --> 00:05:21.369 spend 20 hours building something. 00:05:21.869 --> 00:05:25.349 Then the developers who were like, oh, I could just spend a week working on that. 00:05:25.349 --> 00:05:25.979 No problem. 00:05:26.019 --> 00:05:30.932 And so I know your, your Laravel list is like mostly people 00:05:30.932 --> 00:05:32.372 from Aaron's Lara con talk. 00:05:32.372 --> 00:05:32.792 Right. 00:05:33.289 --> 00:05:38.712 And so I wonder if this list is just mostly those developers who, look 00:05:38.712 --> 00:05:41.712 at that and say, oh, I could do that myself and not their managers who are 00:05:41.712 --> 00:05:44.352 like, yeah, I'm sure you could do that, but I need you doing other things. 00:05:44.352 --> 00:05:46.602 So I'm just going to pay a thousand bucks and then we're good. 00:05:46.652 --> 00:05:47.912 Can you just deploy this please? 00:05:48.315 --> 00:05:48.675 Right. 00:05:48.675 --> 00:05:53.145 Like, I that's, what I wonder is going on. 00:05:53.645 --> 00:05:56.045 Colleen: Well, and I think there might be another aspect too, 00:05:56.045 --> 00:05:58.835 whereas Nova is an admin dashboard. 00:05:58.835 --> 00:06:04.079 So I think I can hypothesize that most of Nova uses internal. 00:06:04.579 --> 00:06:08.959 Whereas, if you have a public facing site and you need filtering. 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:11.569 And so if it's internal, maybe you're not doing it that often, 00:06:11.599 --> 00:06:13.429 or you know how to write SQL. 00:06:13.429 --> 00:06:15.529 So you just write your SQL or whatever. 00:06:15.909 --> 00:06:17.199 Michele: I mean, I'm in Nova. 00:06:17.702 --> 00:06:20.402 I have by basically constantly have a Nova tab open. 00:06:20.905 --> 00:06:23.155 I'm using it all the time during the day. 00:06:23.185 --> 00:06:26.675 And I do not, not know how to write SQL. 00:06:26.995 --> 00:06:29.659 So neither of what you just said is true for me. 00:06:30.362 --> 00:06:30.782 And I bet you. 00:06:30.812 --> 00:06:31.562 Colleen: I take it back then. 00:06:33.042 --> 00:06:36.762 Michele: And I know you and I like you, and that influenced my decision, but 00:06:36.762 --> 00:06:39.642 it was also like, Hey, like I could just quickly look this up and not 00:06:39.672 --> 00:06:41.862 go have to like use metabase suite. 00:06:42.362 --> 00:06:42.782 Colleen: Sweet. 00:06:43.202 --> 00:06:44.192 And I think you're right. 00:06:44.312 --> 00:06:48.602 I think that list we have, like, it's a good list, but also those might 00:06:48.602 --> 00:06:49.892 not be the people that are buying. 00:06:49.952 --> 00:06:53.942 And we have people interested on the rail side. 00:06:53.972 --> 00:06:58.622 I think we're going to do a proper or kind of like a bigger deal launch 00:06:58.702 --> 00:07:04.190 when the laravel total thing, not just the Nova integration, but we'll 00:07:04.190 --> 00:07:07.460 like when the Laravel of L thing is done, which is like in a month. 00:07:07.880 --> 00:07:12.906 So I think what I'm trying to say is, is, yeah, we didn't, we 00:07:12.906 --> 00:07:14.136 didn't knock it out of the park. 00:07:14.136 --> 00:07:18.299 We didn't even like hit it to first base, but the process of 00:07:18.299 --> 00:07:20.369 forcing ourselves to do this. 00:07:21.114 --> 00:07:22.374 You know we launched the landing page. 00:07:22.374 --> 00:07:23.634 We got tons of feedback. 00:07:23.634 --> 00:07:31.314 We have this time to really work on our copy and our site and to really work 00:07:31.344 --> 00:07:34.274 on how we are going to present this. 00:07:34.274 --> 00:07:36.584 Like, what is the elevator pitch for this thing? 00:07:36.614 --> 00:07:39.494 I think the next couple of weeks, Aaron and I are really 00:07:39.494 --> 00:07:40.694 going to drill down into that. 00:07:41.234 --> 00:07:44.864 And so hopefully when it's done in a month, and we do another launch for 00:07:44.864 --> 00:07:48.554 Laravel and we're going to do a bigger deal launch when we do it for Laravel, 00:07:49.124 --> 00:07:51.494 we will find more interested in. 00:07:52.348 --> 00:07:54.408 Michele: You know what to extend that baseball metaphor. 00:07:55.278 --> 00:07:59.148 My apologies to all of our European listeners who are going to have 00:07:59.148 --> 00:08:00.648 no idea what I'm talking about. 00:08:00.664 --> 00:08:01.804 It wasn't a home run. 00:08:02.308 --> 00:08:03.508 It wasn't a first base. 00:08:04.209 --> 00:08:09.729 It was kind of a strikeout, but this was a foul ball strike out. 00:08:09.729 --> 00:08:15.789 You were like, there was effort, there was genuine effort and learnings from this. 00:08:15.789 --> 00:08:15.999 Right. 00:08:15.999 --> 00:08:16.839 You've learned things from it. 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.899 You didn't just stand there and look at the balls at, went by three times, right? 00:08:19.899 --> 00:08:24.759 Like you were actually up there giving this a solid effort and you 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:25.989 have been learning things from it. 00:08:25.989 --> 00:08:30.599 And I think you can, I think that is a very respectable strike out. 00:08:31.348 --> 00:08:32.668 Colleen: I think what's frustrating though. 00:08:32.668 --> 00:08:38.938 Michelle is we felt like we felt that, of the market and maybe the 00:08:38.938 --> 00:08:41.428 pull is Laravel, it's not Nova. 00:08:41.458 --> 00:08:46.591 Like we knew Nova was a special integration, but I think, I mean, 00:08:46.591 --> 00:08:47.581 we're definitely disappointed. 00:08:48.081 --> 00:08:48.471 Michele: Yeah. 00:08:48.971 --> 00:08:52.291 Colleen: However, this is the game, right? 00:08:52.291 --> 00:08:53.641 Like this is what happens. 00:08:53.641 --> 00:08:58.576 It is so rare, for people to just have a magical, like they send an 00:08:58.576 --> 00:09:00.886 email and it's flying off the shelves. 00:09:00.886 --> 00:09:03.046 Like I think we have a great product. 00:09:03.346 --> 00:09:04.876 I think people want this product. 00:09:04.906 --> 00:09:08.956 I think where we have failed and what we are trying to do better is 00:09:08.956 --> 00:09:11.416 communicate the value of this product. 00:09:11.416 --> 00:09:15.496 And I think once we can figure that out, this is going to be, this is 00:09:15.496 --> 00:09:18.256 going to be the thing, like it's going to be really successful. 00:09:18.316 --> 00:09:20.746 Um, But of course, like, yeah, of course you just want it to work 00:09:20.746 --> 00:09:22.603 with, without putting too much work 00:09:22.718 --> 00:09:23.648 Michele: That'd be nice, right? 00:09:24.763 --> 00:09:25.423 Colleen: Wouldn't that be 00:09:25.868 --> 00:09:29.438 Michele: I mean, I think you need to be better at communicating the value of 00:09:29.438 --> 00:09:32.918 it to the people that would value it. 00:09:33.418 --> 00:09:35.008 Colleen: Yes, I agree. 00:09:35.038 --> 00:09:38.870 And that is the challenge. 00:09:39.374 --> 00:09:40.394 How do you do that? 00:09:40.454 --> 00:09:44.164 And I think we're going to write up some like case studies of how you 00:09:44.164 --> 00:09:48.181 can use this tool, you know, make your life better, do certain like really 00:09:48.181 --> 00:09:50.311 specific things, but yeah, absolutely. 00:09:50.311 --> 00:09:54.829 And honestly, once the, once we were able to get together, um, and actually, you 00:09:54.829 --> 00:09:57.109 know, and help you guys integrate it. 00:09:57.109 --> 00:10:01.309 and I can't wait, I still can't wait to get your feedback on that because I think 00:10:01.309 --> 00:10:06.193 that's going to be really instructive in terms of like how much time it's 00:10:06.193 --> 00:10:08.443 going to save you once it's in a. 00:10:08.928 --> 00:10:10.908 Michele: Honestly, it was like, we've struggled to figure 00:10:10.908 --> 00:10:11.958 out how to do that meeting. 00:10:11.958 --> 00:10:15.288 Cause it was like, I was like talking to Mathias about it and he's like, so 00:10:15.288 --> 00:10:19.258 they just, watch me write some code and terminal, and then we're all going to 00:10:19.258 --> 00:10:21.538 sit there for three hours as it deploys. 00:10:22.038 --> 00:10:22.908 Colleen: Right. 00:10:22.908 --> 00:10:25.338 Can't you just install it locally so we can show you how it 00:10:25.638 --> 00:10:27.228 Michele: yeah, I mean, that's what we considered was 00:10:27.228 --> 00:10:29.298 installing it just on staging. 00:10:29.808 --> 00:10:35.621 Um, actually we have to install it on staging anyway, um, because we 00:10:35.621 --> 00:10:37.511 can't show you our customer data. 00:10:37.541 --> 00:10:38.291 I'm sorry. 00:10:38.291 --> 00:10:38.951 I love you. 00:10:38.951 --> 00:10:45.081 But you know, contracts, I need to abide by and like, you know, privacy, I 00:10:45.081 --> 00:10:48.291 need the respect, um, that whole thing. 00:10:48.695 --> 00:10:53.185 So I could, we could install it on staging, but then in order for you 00:10:53.185 --> 00:10:56.995 to get like a genuine, like, oh my gosh, wow, this is so cool reaction 00:10:56.995 --> 00:11:01.038 out of me, Like I need to actually be using it with production data. 00:11:01.038 --> 00:11:07.145 And also we need to make sure that, like, it doesn't overtax our databases. 00:11:07.145 --> 00:11:11.375 And I accidentally run a really expensive query in terms of computing. 00:11:11.405 --> 00:11:15.085 And, I don't want to accidentally like, take something down, which is like 00:11:15.085 --> 00:11:16.735 something we worry about with meta base. 00:11:16.735 --> 00:11:23.975 It's like, don't query this database like, you know, so, um, yeah, we ha we actually, 00:11:23.975 --> 00:11:27.805 we were talking about that the other day and we have to figure it out, and Yeah. 00:11:27.865 --> 00:11:30.475 No, like I really want to make that happen, but then it ended 00:11:30.475 --> 00:11:34.255 up being really complicated once we actually thought it through. 00:11:34.755 --> 00:11:36.225 But we will find a way to make that happen. 00:11:36.475 --> 00:11:36.715 Colleen: Yeah. 00:11:36.850 --> 00:11:39.610 Michele: We were like, maybe like, we can like record ourselves 00:11:39.640 --> 00:11:42.280 as we install it and then 00:11:42.775 --> 00:11:44.965 Colleen: Well, it doesn't have to be video either, right? 00:11:44.965 --> 00:11:47.425 Like more than anything, we just want your feedback. 00:11:47.455 --> 00:11:50.605 I mean, even if you're like, we can't meet, we're just going to do it ourselves. 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:51.459 Michele: Yeah. 00:11:51.961 --> 00:11:53.191 Colleen: But we can help you. 00:11:53.191 --> 00:11:56.161 Like, if you're worried about taking down a database, like you have a query in 00:11:56.161 --> 00:11:57.991 the past, that's taken down a database. 00:11:58.491 --> 00:12:01.178 I mean, we can advise you on. 00:12:01.428 --> 00:12:01.968 Michele: Yeah. 00:12:02.028 --> 00:12:02.208 Yeah. 00:12:02.208 --> 00:12:06.208 I need to, we basically need to make sure there's like safeguards on our end so 00:12:06.208 --> 00:12:12.375 that we, uh, yeah, so we have to think about, and it's been, it's been busy. 00:12:14.277 --> 00:12:18.494 So the other thing you said on Hammerstone podcasts that I wanted to ask about, and 00:12:18.997 --> 00:12:22.057 so you said that you need to sell what? 00:12:22.057 --> 00:12:25.590 30, 40, 50 licenses a month in order to 00:12:25.705 --> 00:12:27.926 Colleen: No, wait, keep going. 00:12:28.131 --> 00:12:30.921 Michele: in order to support you being full-time in August 00:12:31.420 --> 00:12:32.890 Colleen: No five licenses a month. 00:12:33.185 --> 00:12:33.575 Michele: Okay. 00:12:33.665 --> 00:12:36.815 No, you need 30,000 a month was, or no. 00:12:37.920 --> 00:12:39.390 Why am I thinking about 30 of something? 00:12:39.420 --> 00:12:39.810 Okay. 00:12:39.930 --> 00:12:40.320 I don't 00:12:40.495 --> 00:12:41.395 Colleen: I have no idea why you're 00:12:41.460 --> 00:12:42.000 Michele: It is. 00:12:42.030 --> 00:12:44.220 It is late in the day and we're going to blame it on that. 00:12:44.630 --> 00:12:44.930 Okay. 00:12:44.930 --> 00:12:47.360 You need five licenses a month. 00:12:47.860 --> 00:12:48.370 Colleen: Yes. 00:12:48.605 --> 00:12:51.215 Michele: to support you being full-time in August. 00:12:51.715 --> 00:12:51.835 Colleen: Yeah. 00:12:52.060 --> 00:12:58.470 Michele: Considering this launch that you just had, how are you feeling about 00:12:58.966 --> 00:13:01.306 the achievability of that by August? 00:13:02.055 --> 00:13:03.015 Colleen: I still feel good about it. 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:03.570 Michele: You do. 00:13:04.075 --> 00:13:08.275 Colleen: Which seems totally out of sync with the reality of what just happened. 00:13:08.390 --> 00:13:12.020 Michele: You're like your spirit animal is a golden retriever 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:13.580 like of, so I would like, 00:13:13.765 --> 00:13:14.515 Colleen: You're so sweet. 00:13:14.810 --> 00:13:18.020 Michele: I would kind of expect that to you, but I would also expect you to, I 00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:21.846 mean, you said you were disappointed, but like you're, so you're still like, you're 00:13:21.846 --> 00:13:23.526 still feeling like that's achievable. 00:13:24.026 --> 00:13:26.336 Colleen: Yeah, I don't think this is a signal of anything bad. 00:13:26.366 --> 00:13:30.656 I think this is just, I think what we learned is we have 00:13:30.656 --> 00:13:31.886 got to work on our copy. 00:13:31.886 --> 00:13:33.446 We have got to work on our marketing. 00:13:33.746 --> 00:13:37.776 I think we have low, to your point, this list is probably developers 00:13:37.776 --> 00:13:39.906 who are interested in the tech. 00:13:40.356 --> 00:13:43.746 What I have found talking to a lot of people is usually the decision 00:13:43.746 --> 00:13:48.036 person on this is someone who is a manager because they think of time 00:13:48.036 --> 00:13:49.836 value differently than a developer. 00:13:50.376 --> 00:13:51.996 And the pricing is weird. 00:13:52.026 --> 00:13:53.616 It's out of sync for Nova. 00:13:53.646 --> 00:13:56.486 I mean, people, I get that. 00:13:57.541 --> 00:13:59.551 I don't have any, I'm not worried about it at all. 00:13:59.701 --> 00:14:03.331 I mean, asked me in a month after we've launched Laravel for, 00:14:03.331 --> 00:14:06.481 Laravel like just the straight up Laravel and we'll see where we are. 00:14:06.946 --> 00:14:09.156 Michele: Is that the product name Laravel for Laravel. 00:14:09.366 --> 00:14:10.231 Colleen: Laravel for Laravel. 00:14:10.251 --> 00:14:12.541 Speaking of product name, we should talk about that next 00:14:12.541 --> 00:14:13.891 because people are super confused. 00:14:14.256 --> 00:14:16.066 Michele: Well, so once I listened to the podcast, I haven't 00:14:16.066 --> 00:14:17.326 listened to it in a while. 00:14:17.776 --> 00:14:20.626 Admittedly, I don't listen, I actually don't listen to a lot of podcasts, but if 00:14:20.626 --> 00:14:22.546 I have a long drive, then I will listen. 00:14:22.846 --> 00:14:25.366 And then you started talking about how amazing all my ideas were. 00:14:25.366 --> 00:14:26.686 So then I like kept listening. 00:14:27.106 --> 00:14:31.396 Um, so yeah, this is a great self-esteem boost. 00:14:31.426 --> 00:14:36.016 Like, um, so cause you have the, you have like. 00:14:36.516 --> 00:14:39.636 Sidecar, which is a Laravel of a thing, right, like people 00:14:39.636 --> 00:14:41.226 were really psyched about that. 00:14:41.286 --> 00:14:42.036 And then, 00:14:42.256 --> 00:14:42.916 Colleen: Yes 00:14:43.416 --> 00:14:48.186 Michele: uh, no, Aaron did a Torchlight, the highlighting thing. 00:14:48.683 --> 00:14:53.363 Aaron did something with Lambda, but I don't remember what I 00:14:53.363 --> 00:14:55.423 think that was something on 00:14:55.823 --> 00:14:56.123 Colleen: that was 00:14:56.173 --> 00:14:56.893 Michele: that side. 00:14:56.909 --> 00:14:58.003 That's the Lambda thing. 00:14:58.153 --> 00:14:58.543 Okay. 00:14:59.053 --> 00:15:01.939 And then, there's other stuff. 00:15:02.389 --> 00:15:04.729 So then it made sense to me, why there's hammer stones. 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.059 I guess the name here, I guess I don't really get that name. 00:15:08.539 --> 00:15:10.249 Um, okay. 00:15:10.699 --> 00:15:11.179 Yeah. 00:15:11.389 --> 00:15:11.569 Yeah. 00:15:11.599 --> 00:15:16.359 I mean, it's cool, but it's like, you're not making, you know, I don't know, like 00:15:16.449 --> 00:15:19.389 reproduction Viking clothing or something. 00:15:19.389 --> 00:15:21.819 Like, I feel like that's like that, like, you know, like it's like 00:15:21.819 --> 00:15:23.769 hammer stone metery, you know, like. 00:15:24.404 --> 00:15:24.674 Colleen: Okay. 00:15:24.674 --> 00:15:28.734 So I want to talk to you about this name because all those other packages 00:15:28.734 --> 00:15:30.424 we have, like, none of those are for 00:15:30.504 --> 00:15:32.994 I mean, Torchlight is for sale, but we don't anticipate that 00:15:32.994 --> 00:15:35.334 being like a big moneymaker where we might open source that. 00:15:35.904 --> 00:15:40.734 So I feel like I was thinking about that actually, my friend brought up 00:15:40.734 --> 00:15:45.294 that like, Wildbit owns postmark, but they're they feel independent, right? 00:15:45.594 --> 00:15:49.644 Like when you go to postmarks website, it doesn't say postmark by Wildbit. 00:15:49.779 --> 00:15:51.489 Michele: Also because Wildbit sold it. 00:15:51.989 --> 00:15:52.859 Colleen: Well before that though. 00:15:52.859 --> 00:15:56.339 No, where I know they sold it, but before that, right before they sold it, 00:15:56.339 --> 00:16:01.229 like it was their company, but it felt like if you went on their site, if you 00:16:01.259 --> 00:16:04.169 Googled them, like it felt independent. 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:09.449 And I bring that up because maybe instead of calling it Refine by 00:16:09.449 --> 00:16:11.429 hammer stone, like that's ridiculous. 00:16:11.669 --> 00:16:14.909 Maybe we should just call it hammer stone or maybe we should just 00:16:14.909 --> 00:16:19.109 call Refine, but I do think, and I got to talk to Aaron about this. 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.509 I do think there is an opportunity because now if someone Googles, what if 00:16:23.509 --> 00:16:26.899 they heard on the podcast that I call it Refine and they Google, refine query 00:16:26.899 --> 00:16:28.699 builder, like nothing's going to show up. 00:16:29.149 --> 00:16:33.489 So I feel like there is some opportunity, if people seem really confused about 00:16:33.489 --> 00:16:36.309 the name thing, and I feel like we should fix that since this is 00:16:36.309 --> 00:16:37.629 the product we want to make money. 00:16:38.133 --> 00:16:42.543 Somehow, whether we just call it hammer stone or we just call it refine. 00:16:42.603 --> 00:16:43.083 I don't know. 00:16:43.143 --> 00:16:43.683 I'm open to. 00:16:43.933 --> 00:16:47.313 Michele: I mean, it's also worth doing a trademark search and just checking that 00:16:47.313 --> 00:16:52.643 there isn't another piece of software out there called refine because if there is, 00:16:52.643 --> 00:16:56.123 and then you eventually, this becomes like a big thing and you want to trademark it. 00:16:56.123 --> 00:16:59.663 Like you could have to change your name, or you could get a cease and desist 00:16:59.663 --> 00:17:03.463 from somebody, so it's worth just going on the patent and trademark office is 00:17:03.463 --> 00:17:07.236 website and just checking that as well. 00:17:07.736 --> 00:17:09.956 Colleen: Yeah, I mean, like I said, we're going to spend the next 00:17:09.956 --> 00:17:11.546 couple of weeks, really, really all. 00:17:11.576 --> 00:17:15.986 I mean, obviously we still work have our jobs, but really thinking about this, like 00:17:15.986 --> 00:17:20.943 giving this marketing stuff some like real time, because it seems a little confusing. 00:17:21.318 --> 00:17:25.448 Michele: I would focus more on selling than I would on the 00:17:25.448 --> 00:17:27.008 marketing and the name right now. 00:17:27.008 --> 00:17:33.328 I feel like people get really hung up on like names and logos and color 00:17:33.328 --> 00:17:37.998 schemes, when they're trying to launch a business, when they should be focusing 00:17:37.998 --> 00:17:43.153 on launching a business, like you can always change that stuff later. 00:17:43.651 --> 00:17:44.131 Colleen: Okay. 00:17:44.161 --> 00:17:47.061 So talk to me about what you think that looks Like, 00:17:47.763 --> 00:17:50.403 Michele: So this is interesting because Aaron on, on hammer stone pod was 00:17:50.403 --> 00:17:53.703 also talking about how, like, he has a lot of experience with marketing, 00:17:53.703 --> 00:17:55.743 but not necessarily with sales. 00:17:56.243 --> 00:17:57.893 And I guess you've done a lot. 00:17:57.983 --> 00:18:00.833 I mean, as a, as a consultant, you've done a little bit of sales, right? 00:18:00.833 --> 00:18:02.813 You have to like sell, like, do you have to like write 00:18:02.813 --> 00:18:04.403 proposals and stuff like that? 00:18:04.513 --> 00:18:04.933 Colleen: Yeah. 00:18:05.436 --> 00:18:06.036 I do. 00:18:07.026 --> 00:18:08.796 I feel like I kind of get it. 00:18:08.826 --> 00:18:13.446 I mean, I feel like I know how to close and yes, I have to write proposals, but 00:18:13.611 --> 00:18:15.321 Michele: Hopefully, you don't have to do that for this. 00:18:15.861 --> 00:18:16.431 Um, 00:18:16.511 --> 00:18:16.781 Colleen: Yeah. 00:18:16.811 --> 00:18:17.621 Well, and I don't know. 00:18:17.621 --> 00:18:20.351 I mean, how would you even let's let's like practically think about 00:18:20.351 --> 00:18:23.671 this, like, so we have a handful of people that have purchased it. 00:18:24.174 --> 00:18:25.554 What is the next step? 00:18:25.654 --> 00:18:33.161 Michele: mean, so if you, if you feel like your target customer is managers 00:18:33.221 --> 00:18:36.331 in an organization that use Laravel. 00:18:37.333 --> 00:18:42.606 Then you need to figure out who those people are and where they are and 00:18:42.606 --> 00:18:44.076 how you can get in front of them. 00:18:44.576 --> 00:18:45.026 Colleen: Okay. 00:18:45.296 --> 00:18:49.609 Now I want to talk to you about something though, because you 00:18:49.609 --> 00:18:54.019 are an ideal customer of the Nova because you are in Nova every day. 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:55.999 You don't want to write custom SQL. 00:18:56.059 --> 00:18:59.856 You want what you want, and yet you have not yet installed. 00:19:00.426 --> 00:19:02.766 Michele: Yeah, because we got stuff going on, like. 00:19:03.514 --> 00:19:08.971 You know, I want to install it, but like, you know, server 00:19:08.971 --> 00:19:10.861 migrations and feature built. 00:19:10.861 --> 00:19:14.431 Like, there's all this stuff that was like already happening. 00:19:14.551 --> 00:19:18.841 Like, yes, we have some flexibility in our roadmap, but it's not like it can just 00:19:19.344 --> 00:19:19.944 Colleen: Okay. 00:19:20.184 --> 00:19:20.544 Try this 00:19:20.609 --> 00:19:21.239 Michele: Immediately. 00:19:21.239 --> 00:19:21.869 Do you know what I mean? 00:19:21.959 --> 00:19:22.979 Like it takes time. 00:19:23.094 --> 00:19:23.394 Colleen: I do. 00:19:24.048 --> 00:19:27.638 If you didn't know me, if I wasn't like your best friend, 00:19:27.968 --> 00:19:29.378 you're kind of obligated. 00:19:30.158 --> 00:19:34.578 If you didn't know me and you were like, wow, this meta 00:19:34.598 --> 00:19:36.218 base is really pissing me off. 00:19:36.248 --> 00:19:38.708 And you stumbled upon our landing page. 00:19:38.738 --> 00:19:40.448 Do you think you would have bought it? 00:19:40.948 --> 00:19:43.768 Michele: Uh, I don't think I would have stumbled upon it. 00:19:44.371 --> 00:19:48.974 More likely is that, I'm, I'm trying to do something in meta base. 00:19:49.274 --> 00:19:51.934 And then I'm like, Mathias, how do I do this? 00:19:51.934 --> 00:19:53.434 Is this the right thing again? 00:19:53.434 --> 00:19:55.944 Like, you know, whatever. 00:19:56.184 --> 00:19:58.674 And he's like, oh, let me put my headphones down and come over 00:19:58.674 --> 00:19:59.694 it and I'll help you with it. 00:19:59.694 --> 00:20:02.994 And like, he's very patient with me, but like, I'm interrupting him. 00:20:03.504 --> 00:20:06.954 And then, so in all likelihood, he sees this on hacker news. 00:20:07.949 --> 00:20:09.659 Hey, like we should do this. 00:20:09.659 --> 00:20:15.328 So you, you know, stop bugging me with help writing queries that, and 00:20:15.328 --> 00:20:17.928 then I would be like yeah, probably. 00:20:18.228 --> 00:20:23.143 I don't know if I would buy it at a thousand dollars, but I mean also I like 00:20:23.173 --> 00:20:24.373 in the beginning, I think it's okay, 00:20:24.373 --> 00:20:27.283 if it's like your friends who are supporting you, cause like me being like, 00:20:27.283 --> 00:20:28.753 I don't know this thing, like, what is it? 00:20:28.753 --> 00:20:31.463 But then, do you have like testimonials on your website right now? 00:20:31.967 --> 00:20:32.237 Colleen: We have 00:20:32.447 --> 00:20:32.837 Michele: okay. 00:20:33.340 --> 00:20:36.760 like we need it, me writing a testimonial, that's like, this is so great. 00:20:36.790 --> 00:20:39.220 I don't have to go into metabase and write SQL anymore. 00:20:39.250 --> 00:20:39.760 Yay. 00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:40.330 Buy it. 00:20:40.330 --> 00:20:41.110 So worth it. 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:41.470 Right. 00:20:41.967 --> 00:20:42.597 Colleen: But two things. 00:20:42.597 --> 00:20:44.187 I th I think you said that were interesting. 00:20:44.187 --> 00:20:47.337 And I agree, like having your friends support you in the beginning is awesome 00:20:47.367 --> 00:20:51.177 because you get some, we're going to get such good feedback and great 00:20:51.442 --> 00:20:54.322 Michele: I love supporting my friends and being a business expense. 00:20:54.322 --> 00:20:55.372 Like it's just like this. 00:20:56.185 --> 00:20:58.430 There was like, I think I bought a, what was it? 00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:00.393 Oh, it was Peter's thing, reform. 00:21:00.413 --> 00:21:03.803 The other, the other re thing and QuickBooks, like 00:21:03.803 --> 00:21:05.513 categorized it as a donation. 00:21:05.513 --> 00:21:07.133 And I was like, where's the lie? 00:21:07.223 --> 00:21:07.763 Like what? 00:21:07.763 --> 00:21:08.063 Like, 00:21:09.778 --> 00:21:10.648 Colleen: Where's the lie. 00:21:10.648 --> 00:21:11.488 That's amazing. 00:21:11.903 --> 00:21:13.523 Michele: you know, so it's like, 00:21:13.853 --> 00:21:14.243 yeah. 00:21:14.728 --> 00:21:18.688 Colleen: So this is what I took from what you just said, which was interesting, 00:21:19.585 --> 00:21:21.475 use meta base and that's a pain point. 00:21:21.475 --> 00:21:27.055 So maybe one place I can look would be like meta base forums for people's pain 00:21:27.285 --> 00:21:27.495 Michele: Yeah. 00:21:27.525 --> 00:21:29.015 People trying SQL 00:21:29.515 --> 00:21:32.125 Colleen: People trying to use SQL who are frustrated. 00:21:32.125 --> 00:21:32.275 I 00:21:32.275 --> 00:21:32.605 need 00:21:32.835 --> 00:21:34.905 Michele: trying to figure out use metabase. 00:21:35.350 --> 00:21:38.830 Yeah, like maybe like product people who not only managers, but also like 00:21:38.830 --> 00:21:43.630 the product people who need, or in a small enough organization that they 00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:49.060 don't have a BI team they're asking developers to, you know, like, can 00:21:49.060 --> 00:21:52.690 you give me a list of all of the users in the last month who have done this 00:21:52.690 --> 00:21:56.410 because they need to like send an email or do whatever, or do some analysis. 00:21:56.910 --> 00:22:02.070 So small enough that they don't have a BI team, they're using Laravel or using Nova, 00:22:02.825 --> 00:22:08.125 and yeah, the like the product people and then find them, you know, whether they're 00:22:08.628 --> 00:22:11.778 the thing is, is like you could probably go on stack overflow and find people 00:22:11.778 --> 00:22:16.268 asking questions about like, I'm trying to write the SQL query to work with metabase, 00:22:16.268 --> 00:22:19.728 but like, do you know that they're working with Laravel and with Nova right? 00:22:19.728 --> 00:22:21.628 Like there's like, there's 00:22:21.628 --> 00:22:22.228 a lot of 00:22:22.228 --> 00:22:23.098 pieces there. 00:22:23.488 --> 00:22:23.878 Yeah. 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:24.470 Colleen: Yeah. 00:22:24.500 --> 00:22:25.610 Okay, cool. 00:22:26.106 --> 00:22:26.346 Yeah. 00:22:26.376 --> 00:22:27.786 No, that's, that's really good. 00:22:27.816 --> 00:22:33.180 That's, you know, that's a good kind of, to think through that flow. 00:22:33.683 --> 00:22:35.933 And I think what we are going to do. 00:22:36.773 --> 00:22:38.543 Uh, Aaron and I are going to see each other next week. 00:22:38.573 --> 00:22:38.873 Yay. 00:22:38.903 --> 00:22:39.653 For our workshop. 00:22:40.143 --> 00:22:40.523 Michele: Oh, my God. 00:22:40.533 --> 00:22:41.463 It's next week, right? 00:22:42.023 --> 00:22:42.233 Colleen: it's 00:22:42.843 --> 00:22:43.653 Michele: Is it ready? 00:22:43.673 --> 00:22:44.153 Colleen: week. 00:22:44.656 --> 00:22:45.016 Oh yeah. 00:22:45.016 --> 00:22:45.736 I finished it. 00:22:46.276 --> 00:22:49.896 just been, it's been a lot, like, I'm going to be honest, Michelle. 00:22:49.896 --> 00:22:53.586 Like, I'm a pretty happy person, you know, me really well, but when we 00:22:53.586 --> 00:23:02.826 got no sales and I had to build that workshop from scratch, I was not in dude. 00:23:03.096 --> 00:23:04.356 I totally was. 00:23:06.336 --> 00:23:07.866 It's like, this is terrible. 00:23:07.866 --> 00:23:09.066 Why did I agree to do 00:23:09.196 --> 00:23:10.006 Michele: What do they call it? 00:23:10.006 --> 00:23:12.076 The, uh, the trough of sorrow. 00:23:12.106 --> 00:23:12.826 Have you ever seen that. 00:23:13.146 --> 00:23:13.896 Colleen: Oh dude. 00:23:14.226 --> 00:23:17.376 I was so in the trough of sorrow, like to whatever that was two 00:23:17.376 --> 00:23:19.356 weeks ago, I was like, this sucks. 00:23:20.166 --> 00:23:21.036 Why am I doing 00:23:21.416 --> 00:23:21.716 Michele: Yeah. 00:23:21.746 --> 00:23:22.466 That's the trough 00:23:22.506 --> 00:23:24.056 Colleen: Oh yeah. 00:23:24.086 --> 00:23:25.766 I feel like, you know, it, wasn't a trough. 00:23:25.766 --> 00:23:28.196 It's more of a dip, but you know, that's what I remind myself. 00:23:28.196 --> 00:23:29.396 That's part of the game, right? 00:23:29.396 --> 00:23:30.206 These emotional 00:23:30.216 --> 00:23:32.646 Michele: water bowl of sorrow for your golden retriever. 00:23:38.106 --> 00:23:39.636 Ah, yeah. 00:23:40.133 --> 00:23:41.123 Colleen: So yeah. 00:23:41.153 --> 00:23:42.473 so it's done now. 00:23:42.595 --> 00:23:45.505 I just have to practice it, but it was a lot, I mean, putting together 00:23:45.505 --> 00:23:48.009 the workshop was ton of work. 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.899 It was a tremendous amount of work. 00:23:50.769 --> 00:23:52.239 And so I just want it to be over 00:23:52.414 --> 00:23:53.734 Michele: How long is the workshop. 00:23:54.239 --> 00:23:56.789 Colleen: Um, Well, so here's the interesting thing it's 00:23:56.789 --> 00:23:58.409 supposed to be 90 minutes. 00:23:59.459 --> 00:24:03.179 I have no idea how long it's actually going to take. 00:24:03.209 --> 00:24:06.989 I think, you know, we have tons, we can just keep going and going. 00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:07.289 Right. 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.059 We can just like, I can do this for all day, but I have prepared what I think will 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:14.699 take approximately that amount of time. 00:24:15.269 --> 00:24:19.289 And, um, you, know, someone who has given a lot of workshops told me 00:24:19.289 --> 00:24:20.399 it always takes longer than you. 00:24:21.149 --> 00:24:23.429 ' cause you're like, oh, I'm going to give you 10 minutes to do this thing. 00:24:23.429 --> 00:24:26.999 And then someone's dependencies are out of whack or someone can't get the, you, 00:24:26.999 --> 00:24:30.449 know, they don't have Docker installed or whatever that always happens. 00:24:30.479 --> 00:24:32.129 So it's been a 00:24:32.129 --> 00:24:32.849 whole thing. 00:24:32.969 --> 00:24:33.719 But anyway, I give it 00:24:33.794 --> 00:24:35.264 Michele: Can you, send people like a list? 00:24:35.264 --> 00:24:39.964 It's like, Hey, like, make sure your dependencies are in order. 00:24:39.964 --> 00:24:41.524 And like, you know, make sure you have 00:24:41.539 --> 00:24:42.399 Colleen: People don't do. 00:24:44.959 --> 00:24:47.029 So I got a cloud IDE git pod. 00:24:47.389 --> 00:24:51.709 I got it set up and git pod, so for those that do not have the correct, 00:24:51.739 --> 00:24:53.009 like can't get the repo running. 00:24:53.009 --> 00:24:54.863 Like they can just, it's pretty cool. 00:24:54.863 --> 00:25:00.167 It's like one click and it, um, it's the whole IDE and it runs the server for you. 00:25:00.167 --> 00:25:02.507 And it has all the dependencies in it, which I got set up 00:25:02.507 --> 00:25:04.427 yesterday, which was a huge pain. 00:25:04.675 --> 00:25:05.905 Yeah, so it'll be good. 00:25:05.905 --> 00:25:07.225 I think the workshop's going to be great. 00:25:07.315 --> 00:25:10.165 I do, but I also just want it to be over 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:10.800 Michele: Yeah. 00:25:11.303 --> 00:25:16.673 And then I guess you feel like after rails conf you can really focus on selling this. 00:25:17.178 --> 00:25:19.218 Colleen: That's what I, yes, that's exactly how I feel. 00:25:19.218 --> 00:25:19.518 So I. 00:25:20.603 --> 00:25:23.123 You know, Aaron and I have a lot of things to talk about. 00:25:23.123 --> 00:25:24.443 We have a lot of feedback. 00:25:24.473 --> 00:25:26.393 I'm going to see him, which will be really good. 00:25:26.873 --> 00:25:32.873 And our plan for the next like is just to push on the marketing and sales, like 00:25:32.903 --> 00:25:35.543 just really get out there, try stuff. 00:25:36.293 --> 00:25:40.753 Um, while we have a contractor finishing up the front end for 00:25:40.783 --> 00:25:43.673 Laravel and Vue, we have a different contractor working on Vue and it's 00:25:43.693 --> 00:25:45.493 going to be all themed and amazing. 00:25:45.823 --> 00:25:46.813 And so that's almost done. 00:25:47.503 --> 00:25:49.213 So that's going to be done in a couple of weeks. 00:25:49.213 --> 00:25:51.163 The rail stuff is almost done. 00:25:51.193 --> 00:25:55.513 So I still think in the next like two to three months a lot is, oh, it's 00:25:55.513 --> 00:26:00.223 may I just realized it's may, may June, July, August 12th, whatever. 00:26:00.583 --> 00:26:03.433 Um, In the next two to three months, things are really going to pick up. 00:26:04.035 --> 00:26:07.755 Michele: So I heard you talking about a lot of building stuff. 00:26:08.255 --> 00:26:12.917 There was less, marketing the stuff in there, even though you just talked 00:26:12.917 --> 00:26:17.607 about marketing it, like, have you guys thought about, you know, I mean, I know 00:26:17.727 --> 00:26:21.027 Aaron's done this a bunch in the past, like posting more stuff on Twitter 00:26:21.027 --> 00:26:22.497 about just what you're working on. 00:26:22.497 --> 00:26:26.023 So people are aware of it and can see it in action. 00:26:26.053 --> 00:26:29.883 Even as you're working, like, like, I feel like you're holding this 00:26:29.883 --> 00:26:32.523 really close to your chest and. 00:26:35.543 --> 00:26:41.207 Kind of, I mean, you didn't even tell anybody about it for like, uh, like how 00:26:41.207 --> 00:26:44.927 long was it between the time people could actually buy the Nova thing and then you 00:26:44.927 --> 00:26:46.757 actually sent the email like two months. 00:26:47.257 --> 00:26:48.487 Colleen: Yeah, I know. 00:26:48.517 --> 00:26:50.167 I know we're not, we're not doing that anymore. 00:26:50.227 --> 00:26:51.817 We're we're going to change that cadence. 00:26:51.843 --> 00:26:55.263 Aaron didn't want to do a big tweet to thread about Nova cause he wants to save, 00:26:55.353 --> 00:27:01.790 like, save that social capital for Laravel since we're so close, But um, yeah, 00:27:01.930 --> 00:27:05.050 Michele: just stuff like you're working on like, Hey, like I'm building this Le like 00:27:05.080 --> 00:27:07.810 rails thing and like, it's not complete, but like, here's what I did today. 00:27:07.810 --> 00:27:09.040 Like, people 00:27:09.040 --> 00:27:09.310 love 00:27:09.310 --> 00:27:09.910 that. 00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:13.480 Like just post, like just like build in public stuff, 00:27:13.510 --> 00:27:15.760 except you're like 95% built. 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:16.300 And 00:27:17.185 --> 00:27:17.605 Colleen: Yeah. 00:27:18.085 --> 00:27:19.135 I usually do that. 00:27:19.135 --> 00:27:20.365 I think we've been distracted. 00:27:20.365 --> 00:27:22.345 He has been, he had his lara cast. 00:27:22.345 --> 00:27:23.865 He had to finish and I had to do the workshops. 00:27:23.865 --> 00:27:26.845 So we've both been kind of heads down in this like kind 00:27:26.845 --> 00:27:29.275 of busy work ish kind of thing. 00:27:29.778 --> 00:27:30.918 But you will see more of that. 00:27:30.918 --> 00:27:33.588 That's obviously a great idea and something we need to, we 00:27:33.678 --> 00:27:40.606 Michele: And so you're at rails conf next week and the rails thing is, is that 00:27:40.606 --> 00:27:43.546 going to be refined for rails or, or, 00:27:44.048 --> 00:27:45.608 Colleen: Yeah, 00:27:45.623 --> 00:27:50.153 Michele: Is that the, so that's not going to be available for sale at rails. 00:27:50.804 --> 00:27:53.654 Colleen: It's super close, but it's not quite ready yet. 00:27:53.684 --> 00:27:55.814 So we still have like a few little bugs. 00:27:55.814 --> 00:27:56.937 We gotta iron out. 00:27:56.937 --> 00:27:57.500 Man. 00:27:57.590 --> 00:28:02.330 No cause that's next week, but like it's, I mean, so close almost 00:28:02.335 --> 00:28:06.792 Michele: so then your goal for the conference next week is to talk to 00:28:06.792 --> 00:28:09.702 people and drum up interest in this and. 00:28:10.845 --> 00:28:14.865 Like have you thought about doing a pre-order of it so that people 00:28:14.865 --> 00:28:17.415 at rails conf can pre-order it. 00:28:18.620 --> 00:28:19.470 Colleen: That's an interesting idea. 00:28:20.258 --> 00:28:22.148 Michele: then, so you're not waiting until the launch, 00:28:22.648 --> 00:28:23.308 Colleen: That's an interesting 00:28:23.368 --> 00:28:25.528 Michele: like just having a simple landing page where they can 00:28:25.528 --> 00:28:28.402 pre-order it for, I don't know how much you're going to sell it for, 00:28:28.902 --> 00:28:29.712 Colleen: that we're going to sell for the 00:28:29.712 --> 00:28:30.192 same 00:28:30.252 --> 00:28:30.942 thousand dollars. 00:28:30.942 --> 00:28:30.972 a 00:28:31.272 --> 00:28:33.762 Michele: So put up a landing page that says they can buy it, 00:28:34.002 --> 00:28:35.322 you know, for, I don't know. 00:28:35.822 --> 00:28:38.192 7 99 or something if they pre-order it 00:28:38.692 --> 00:28:39.592 Colleen: That's a great idea. 00:28:39.952 --> 00:28:40.582 Um, 00:28:42.797 --> 00:28:44.747 Michele: and like join and like join a 00:28:44.922 --> 00:28:45.672 Colleen: in the next, 00:28:45.677 --> 00:28:46.007 Michele: Right. 00:28:46.755 --> 00:28:48.725 Colleen: uh, yeah, let me talk to Aaron about that. 00:28:48.745 --> 00:28:49.632 So I mean, we have some 00:28:49.767 --> 00:28:51.057 Michele: You got to have something to do on the plane. 00:28:51.057 --> 00:28:51.357 Right. 00:28:51.896 --> 00:28:52.616 Colleen: Right. 00:28:52.646 --> 00:28:53.066 Right. 00:28:54.419 --> 00:28:58.439 It's like, you know, I was talking, oh, because Stripe announced their 00:28:58.439 --> 00:29:01.769 mark docs or whatever yesterday that everyone's so excited about. 00:29:02.189 --> 00:29:04.199 And the reason they're so excited about it is cause we have like, 00:29:04.199 --> 00:29:05.429 here's the problem we have. 00:29:05.459 --> 00:29:06.809 And I'm just going to rant a little bit. 00:29:07.139 --> 00:29:11.639 So Aaron did our, and I had the same problem with simple file upload, landing 00:29:11.639 --> 00:29:13.319 pages are so much harder than they need. 00:29:13.972 --> 00:29:16.882 So what you just said made total sense. 00:29:16.882 --> 00:29:20.392 I should just throw up a landing page, but ours is in Laravel, which 00:29:20.392 --> 00:29:21.592 I don't even have running locally. 00:29:21.622 --> 00:29:23.212 So I can't just throw up a landing page. 00:29:23.212 --> 00:29:27.742 So then I'd have to spin up like another domain and, or, you know, a sub domain 00:29:27.742 --> 00:29:29.002 and link to it from our main domain. 00:29:29.032 --> 00:29:29.902 I guess it's not hard. 00:29:29.932 --> 00:29:31.326 It's just like, I don't know. 00:29:31.879 --> 00:29:33.349 Michele: You're selling a Laravel of a product. 00:29:33.579 --> 00:29:37.679 Maybe you should have some passing familiarity with it, at least as it 00:29:37.679 --> 00:29:39.059 pertains to your marketing website. 00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:43.249 Like, what if there's a day when like you need a sales call and somebody is 00:29:43.249 --> 00:29:45.019 late and like Aaron isn't available. 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:46.869 Colleen: Yeah, I think too. 00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:47.439 I mean, I don't know. 00:29:47.439 --> 00:29:50.079 I guess this just goes back to like, where do you do your landing pages? 00:29:50.175 --> 00:29:51.825 Like how do you do your landing pages? 00:29:52.695 --> 00:29:55.232 Um, you know what I should do, Michelle. 00:29:55.735 --> 00:29:57.655 Like let's simplify this you're right. 00:29:57.685 --> 00:29:58.945 That feels a little overwhelming. 00:29:58.945 --> 00:30:01.285 Cause I still have to practice this workshop and get on an airplane. 00:30:01.585 --> 00:30:03.475 But why don't I, what is that? 00:30:03.475 --> 00:30:09.029 That one page thing everyone loves, it's not carbon, it's yeah. 00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:10.859 Why don't I just Do a card 00:30:10.989 --> 00:30:11.259 Michele: Do a 00:30:11.259 --> 00:30:14.619 card plus one of those Stripe checkout links. 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:15.659 Colleen: yeah. 00:30:16.049 --> 00:30:16.679 Card 00:30:16.869 --> 00:30:18.939 Michele: And then also you have a MailChimp and you have a 00:30:18.939 --> 00:30:20.019 MailChimp thing set up, right. 00:30:20.019 --> 00:30:20.919 So you can have a MailChimp 00:30:21.259 --> 00:30:22.369 Colleen: We have MailChimp set up. 00:30:22.399 --> 00:30:22.669 We can 00:30:22.669 --> 00:30:25.209 segment, like, I think we have a reform. 00:30:25.209 --> 00:30:26.149 I got to talk to Aaron about this. 00:30:26.169 --> 00:30:27.549 We have a reform to that he's been 00:30:27.639 --> 00:30:28.389 Michele: Oh, does that feed 00:30:28.389 --> 00:30:28.809 Colleen: talk to him. 00:30:29.139 --> 00:30:29.889 Michele: thing or? 00:30:30.099 --> 00:30:30.489 Colleen: Yeah. 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.249 Right now we have a reform that feeds into the MailChimp, but that would 00:30:33.249 --> 00:30:37.689 be easier to segment using that as opposed to like what I do on simple 00:30:37.689 --> 00:30:40.899 file upload where I actually write the code to segment in the app. 00:30:41.259 --> 00:30:42.746 Um, Y Yeah, 00:30:42.776 --> 00:30:44.066 I, you know what, that's what I should do. 00:30:44.066 --> 00:30:46.996 I feel like that's the fastest is spin up a card. 00:30:47.226 --> 00:30:47.916 Michele: it doesn't have to be 00:30:48.096 --> 00:30:49.206 Colleen: Stripe checkout link. 00:30:49.746 --> 00:30:50.916 doesn't have to be perfect. 00:30:50.916 --> 00:30:51.036 I'm 00:30:51.056 --> 00:30:54.756 Michele: Give people a discount for pre-ordering like say 00:30:54.756 --> 00:30:56.136 it's going to be available. 00:30:56.796 --> 00:30:58.986 I don't know, say like June 1st or whatever, 00:30:59.096 --> 00:30:59.636 Colleen: months. 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:04.259 Michele: Or July 1st and say, if you pre-order it right now, like 7 99. 00:31:04.449 --> 00:31:05.049 Colleen: Yes. 00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:06.219 I love this idea. 00:31:06.719 --> 00:31:07.139 Okay. 00:31:07.379 --> 00:31:07.799 I'm in 00:31:08.369 --> 00:31:08.729 Michele: Cool. 00:31:09.228 --> 00:31:09.918 I think we're good. 00:31:10.422 --> 00:31:12.012 Um, okay. 00:31:12.042 --> 00:31:16.992 Would you like to read our list of, uh, sponsors this week? 00:31:17.022 --> 00:31:17.382 Okay. 00:31:17.387 --> 00:31:17.987 Colleen: Yes. 00:31:18.017 --> 00:31:18.287 Okay. 00:31:18.647 --> 00:31:21.287 Huge thanks to all of our listeners who've become software 00:31:21.287 --> 00:31:22.967 socialites and support our show. 00:31:23.267 --> 00:31:28.217 You can become a supporter for $10 a month or a hundred dollars a year at software 00:31:28.217 --> 00:31:33.557 social dot dev backslash supporters, Chris from chipper CI, the daringly 00:31:33.557 --> 00:31:39.047 handsome Kevin Griffin, Mike from gently used domains, Dave from Recut, max of 00:31:39.077 --> 00:31:41.447 online or not, Stefan from talk to Stefan, 00:31:42.392 --> 00:31:46.406 Brendan of bright bits, Aaron from Tuple, Alex Hillman from the 00:31:46.406 --> 00:31:52.346 tiny MBA, Ramy from memo.fm, Jane and Benedikt from userlist, 00:31:52.526 --> 00:31:56.816 Kendall Morgan, Ruben Gamez of signwell, Corey Haines of swipewell, 00:31:56.816 --> 00:32:01.286 Mike Wade of crowd sentry, Nate Ritter of room steals, and 00:32:01.286 --> 00:32:03.116 Anna Maste of subscribe sense, 00:32:03.356 --> 00:32:08.096 Geoff Roberts from outseta, uh, Justin Jackson from megamaker, Jack 00:32:08.096 --> 00:32:10.016 Ellis and Paul Jarvis from fathom analytics, 00:32:11.126 --> 00:32:16.196 Matthew from appointment reminder, Andrew Culver at bullet train, John Koster, 00:32:16.496 --> 00:32:17.366 Alex, of corso systems, 00:32:17.366 --> 00:32:23.516 Richard from stunning, Josh, the annoyingly pragmatic founder, Ben from 00:32:23.516 --> 00:32:29.186 consent kit, John from credo and editor ninja, Cam Sloan, Michael Koper of Nusii Proposals, 00:32:30.071 --> 00:32:34.601 Chris from URLbox, Caeli of Tosslet, Greg Park from traitlab, 00:32:34.811 --> 00:32:38.501 Arvid Kahl, James Sowers from castaway.fm, 00:32:38.801 --> 00:32:41.951 Nathan of develop your UX, Jessica Melnick. 00:32:42.681 --> 00:32:44.841 Michele: Isn't that such a nice list to read. 00:32:44.871 --> 00:32:50.261 Like it's so heartwarming to like, read that. 00:32:50.561 --> 00:32:51.071 Okay. 00:32:51.521 --> 00:32:52.961 You've got a lot of work to do. 00:32:53.461 --> 00:32:55.231 Colleen: Oh, can I just take a nap? 00:32:56.121 --> 00:32:59.811 Michele: No, Colleen actually, I guess golden retrievers do nap. 00:32:59.821 --> 00:33:00.891 So yes. 00:33:01.091 --> 00:33:02.501 Colleen: I was joking with my husband. 00:33:02.501 --> 00:33:07.031 I literally have to go to a conference to get some sleep that was like the 00:33:07.031 --> 00:33:09.971 first two days are going to be rails conf and then the last day I'm just going to 00:33:09.971 --> 00:33:11.261 spend the whole day in my hotel room. 00:33:11.664 --> 00:33:13.044 Michele: So, I guess I won't talk to you next week. 00:33:13.044 --> 00:33:13.974 It'll be two weeks then. 00:33:14.424 --> 00:33:14.724 Colleen: Yeah, 00:33:14.824 --> 00:33:16.654 Michele: Yeah, because you're at rails conf. 00:33:16.774 --> 00:33:17.284 Okay. 00:33:17.974 --> 00:33:18.874 I will 00:33:18.894 --> 00:33:19.134 Colleen: All right. 00:33:19.134 --> 00:33:19.254 Cool. 00:33:19.294 --> 00:33:19.954 Michele: in two weeks.