WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:01.170 --> 00:00:05.370 Welcome to The Chemical Show, the podcast where Chemical means business. 00:00:05.910 --> 00:00:09.720 I'm your host, Victoria Meyer, bringing you stories and insights 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.590 from leaders driving innovation and growth across the chemical industry. 00:00:14.520 --> 00:00:18.840 Each week we explore key trends, real world challenges, and the 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.700 strategies that make an impact. 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:21.750 Let's get started. 00:00:23.329 --> 00:00:26.959 Victoria: Welcome back to The Chemical Show where Leaders Talk Business. 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:31.609 Today I have the opportunity to speak with Michael Levenfeld, who is the president 00:00:31.609 --> 00:00:36.139 and CEO at Hexion Incorporated, where he's also the chairman of the board. 00:00:36.469 --> 00:00:41.179 Michael has a long career in chemicals and materials and is an innovator. 00:00:41.489 --> 00:00:44.309 He's had a combination of executive operational. 00:00:44.364 --> 00:00:48.554 And entrepreneurial experience, including by the way, holding more than a hundred 00:00:48.554 --> 00:00:53.294 patents, this makes him number one, just an interesting person to talk to. 00:00:53.294 --> 00:00:58.724 Number two, really uniquely positioned to be leading Hexion through its 00:00:58.724 --> 00:01:00.164 transformations that it's going through. 00:01:00.164 --> 00:01:02.324 So Michael, welcome to the Chemical Show. 00:01:03.253 --> 00:01:04.748 Michael: Thanks for having me, Victoria. 00:01:05.164 --> 00:01:05.824 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:01:06.034 --> 00:01:08.284 So let's just start with your origin story. 00:01:08.344 --> 00:01:13.144 How did you become interested in chemicals and materials, and how 00:01:13.144 --> 00:01:15.904 has your career path led you to where you are today at Hexion? 00:01:16.364 --> 00:01:19.268 Michael: my origin story's a little bit, little bit different, but, uh, 00:01:19.268 --> 00:01:22.508 I think it starts with, you know, most technology focused folks. 00:01:22.508 --> 00:01:23.768 I was a nerd growing up. 00:01:23.958 --> 00:01:25.878 And I wear that with a, with a badge of honor. 00:01:25.908 --> 00:01:25.968 Um. 00:01:26.535 --> 00:01:29.295 My career has always been about transforming products and 00:01:29.295 --> 00:01:31.425 industries and, and markets. 00:01:31.555 --> 00:01:35.875 Taking things that have existed already and putting them together in novel or 00:01:35.875 --> 00:01:40.945 unique ways new packages of, products for, for respective industries. 00:01:41.005 --> 00:01:43.302 And, um, I started my first. 00:01:43.977 --> 00:01:47.097 Company in college, which was a medical device company, filed 00:01:47.097 --> 00:01:50.607 my first patent then, and then launched, you know, successful 00:01:50.607 --> 00:01:52.767 startups, , a few times after that. 00:01:52.877 --> 00:01:58.487 The biggest being in the chemicals industry, I then exited and, um, know, 00:01:58.487 --> 00:02:03.617 then transformed my, my career into doing strategic growth transformations 00:02:03.617 --> 00:02:04.937 in the private equity world. 00:02:05.323 --> 00:02:09.307 And as a business leader with a scientist, Background. 00:02:09.777 --> 00:02:15.433 I've been focused on transforming industry, has been, you know, a 00:02:15.433 --> 00:02:20.353 little bit more dated into modern, you know, progressive organizations 00:02:20.353 --> 00:02:25.810 with innovation and sustainability at the heart of their growth, projects. 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.130 So, private equity is a, is an amazing place to be. 00:02:29.130 --> 00:02:32.220 It's a little different than entrepreneurial areas where, you know, 00:02:32.220 --> 00:02:33.870 you play every role when you're the first. 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:37.020 Person hired in the organization here. 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:41.790 You come in with a, with a strong balance sheet and with a great team and the world 00:02:41.790 --> 00:02:47.160 is, is open to you if you can align that strategy quickly and, and progressively. 00:02:47.160 --> 00:02:50.220 And that's really where, where I really love to play. 00:02:50.220 --> 00:02:50.250 I. 00:02:50.666 --> 00:02:51.266 Victoria: That's awesome. 00:02:51.356 --> 00:02:55.496 And I know we've, we've had a few PE people on the, the podcast in the past, 00:02:55.496 --> 00:02:58.346 and it's always something that people are interested in terms of both the, 00:02:58.676 --> 00:03:00.356 well, how do you, how do you get in. 00:03:00.416 --> 00:03:01.646 To a PE-backed company. 00:03:01.646 --> 00:03:06.246 So that's usually from somebody that's in some big, somewhat lumbers, publicly 00:03:06.306 --> 00:03:12.216 listed company, but also this whole aspect of just really driving value and results. 00:03:12.216 --> 00:03:15.036 'cause of course, that's where a lot of the action is. 00:03:15.675 --> 00:03:18.105 Michael: private equity is an interesting medium. 00:03:18.288 --> 00:03:22.428 how I got there was after I exited my chemical company, after a decade of 00:03:22.428 --> 00:03:27.722 growing it and, and, and exiting, I started co-investing and sitting on 00:03:27.722 --> 00:03:32.132 boards with, you know, private equity and venture backed organizations. 00:03:32.162 --> 00:03:37.472 And, in my first private equity board, position, I was sort of. 00:03:37.953 --> 00:03:42.093 S predicting the future a little bit faster than the, the organization itself 00:03:42.093 --> 00:03:46.203 and the other board members from the private equity fund had asked why I was. 00:03:47.148 --> 00:03:50.458 knowing where, what was coming or where it was going, before the team. 00:03:50.458 --> 00:03:51.208 And I started 00:03:51.279 --> 00:03:51.699 Victoria: Yeah. 00:03:51.718 --> 00:03:52.258 Michael: about that. 00:03:52.258 --> 00:03:57.718 And then asked if I'd be willing to take the CEO role of the organization. 00:03:57.718 --> 00:04:01.498 So my, my work with, with private equity started as consultancy, but 00:04:01.498 --> 00:04:06.898 then found its way into, operational, structure and, and, and performance. 00:04:07.192 --> 00:04:11.452 So that's really how my, my, my start into private equity, you 00:04:11.452 --> 00:04:14.782 know, began and working with private equity is, it's amazing. 00:04:14.912 --> 00:04:18.752 You're sprinting a marathon, which is hard, don't get me wrong, right? 00:04:18.782 --> 00:04:23.042 'cause private equity has a five year timeline on average, 00:04:23.382 --> 00:04:25.032 from start to their exit. 00:04:25.392 --> 00:04:30.282 So you've gotta achieve your growth, your operational excellence, your safety 00:04:30.282 --> 00:04:34.942 improvements, your strategic shifts, all in a very small amount of time. 00:04:34.942 --> 00:04:39.772 So, you know, it's not a, it's not a very long tenure where public companies have a 00:04:39.772 --> 00:04:42.112 lot more time to steer that ship around. 00:04:42.112 --> 00:04:46.162 And as the larger organizations go, the trick is to make them as nimble and as 00:04:46.162 --> 00:04:47.962 operationally excellent as possible. 00:04:48.378 --> 00:04:49.278 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:04:49.458 --> 00:04:51.498 Well that's a good segue into to Hexion. 00:04:51.648 --> 00:04:56.478 So let's talk a little bit, first of all, just about who and what is Hexion. 00:04:56.478 --> 00:04:58.908 'cause some of our folks may not be familiar with the company. 00:05:00.142 --> 00:05:03.472 Michael: So, so Hexion is actually over 150 years old. 00:05:03.738 --> 00:05:04.098 Victoria: Wow. 00:05:04.102 --> 00:05:05.212 Michael: be called Borden. 00:05:05.642 --> 00:05:09.855 We were founded by, by a gentleman named Gail Borden, who, who actually 00:05:09.885 --> 00:05:11.535 invented, uh, condensed milk 00:05:12.416 --> 00:05:14.996 Victoria: I was gonna ask if it was a dairy, the dairy connection. 00:05:15.090 --> 00:05:16.920 Michael: It, it was the, it was the dairy company. 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:19.080 Of course, you know, now we're in chemicals. 00:05:19.080 --> 00:05:23.393 But, um, they used to have, Elmer's glue, cracker Jacks. 00:05:23.393 --> 00:05:25.887 They used to have, fast food restaurants. 00:05:25.887 --> 00:05:28.317 There was a, it was an amazingly diverse. 00:05:29.937 --> 00:05:30.777 And um, 00:05:31.193 --> 00:05:31.253 Victoria: Wow. 00:05:31.317 --> 00:05:34.417 Michael: then the name changed, years ago and we became Hexion. 00:05:34.717 --> 00:05:37.837 It's still a little bit frustrating, I'm not gonna lie, in Columbus, Ohio. 00:05:37.837 --> 00:05:41.497 When you get in a taxi at the airport and say, take me to the Hexion building, 00:05:41.497 --> 00:05:45.162 which has our big name on it, taxi drivers still look at you like you have, you 00:05:45.162 --> 00:05:49.327 know, you have three heads and, um, if you tell 'em to take you to the board and 00:05:49.327 --> 00:05:50.887 building, they know exactly where to go. 00:05:50.887 --> 00:05:53.947 So, uh, we're working on that branding opportunity in. 00:05:54.828 --> 00:05:55.608 Victoria: That's amazing. 00:05:55.608 --> 00:05:58.218 And how long has it been Hexion as a company? 00:05:58.612 --> 00:05:59.602 Michael: Uh, over a decade. 00:05:59.748 --> 00:06:00.108 Victoria: Okay. 00:06:00.318 --> 00:06:01.008 That's what I thought. 00:06:01.518 --> 00:06:01.848 Yeah. 00:06:02.032 --> 00:06:05.902 Michael: And, you know, we're a global producer o of of, of adhesives and 00:06:05.902 --> 00:06:09.622 performance materials and, you know, we have locations all over the world 00:06:09.622 --> 00:06:11.092 headquartered in Columbus, Ohio. 00:06:11.527 --> 00:06:15.740 Um, and we have, just under 1500 associates in the organization. 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:21.347 So, you know, we are the world's pioneers in what are called resins, 00:06:21.397 --> 00:06:25.397 which is basically a different type of glue, for engineered wood products. 00:06:25.647 --> 00:06:29.997 And, you know, we work in the, you know, in in, in the building and construction. 00:06:31.372 --> 00:06:32.122 Majority. 00:06:32.452 --> 00:06:36.712 We also have products in agriculture and oil and gas and automotive and 00:06:36.712 --> 00:06:41.482 coatings and paints and things like that, but our big business falls into 00:06:41.482 --> 00:06:43.312 the building and construction markets. 00:06:43.748 --> 00:06:44.018 Victoria: Got it. 00:06:44.048 --> 00:06:44.648 Makes sense. 00:06:44.648 --> 00:06:45.158 Makes sense. 00:06:45.398 --> 00:06:49.418 So you've been at Hexion now for a few years and you've really been 00:06:49.838 --> 00:06:53.408 leading it through a significant period of transformation. 00:06:53.438 --> 00:06:53.768 Right? 00:06:53.768 --> 00:06:58.488 So I know you talked about being PE-backed and just how that drives, fast 00:06:58.548 --> 00:07:00.678 movement, fast decisions, fast results. 00:07:00.958 --> 00:07:03.238 But can you describe some of that transformation and 00:07:03.238 --> 00:07:04.138 what really prompted it? 00:07:04.710 --> 00:07:08.730 Michael: Yeah, you know, Hexion and, and prior in was, you know, was built 00:07:08.730 --> 00:07:14.705 on the backbone of innovation and, and purposeful innovation, Ion's history, 00:07:14.705 --> 00:07:19.265 some, some ups and downs, um, that Hexion had in the, in the last decades. 00:07:19.568 --> 00:07:24.458 It has become a little bit less investing into its, pioneering research. 00:07:25.088 --> 00:07:30.698 And so at Hexion we are focusing on transforming, you know, what we, 00:07:30.828 --> 00:07:35.868 would define as a more commoditized chemical supplier into a solutions 00:07:35.868 --> 00:07:37.968 focused technology enabled. 00:07:38.155 --> 00:07:43.225 Provider to lead the manufacturing industry of engineered wood and, and 00:07:43.285 --> 00:07:44.905 construction and building products. 00:07:45.985 --> 00:07:50.255 this shift's been, one driven by our customers, what our customers need. 00:07:51.245 --> 00:07:54.155 and we are 100% customer focused. 00:07:54.935 --> 00:07:59.945 we have decided those solutions should be fully enabling to make sure that their 00:07:59.945 --> 00:08:05.225 processes and their products are to the highest quality and the highest spec by 00:08:05.405 --> 00:08:09.215 including systems through our acquisition with smart tech AI based systems. 00:08:09.665 --> 00:08:14.975 As well, well as improving our products to be the fastest curing, the strongest 00:08:14.975 --> 00:08:19.565 bonding materials that can be made for, for wood product engineering. 00:08:20.025 --> 00:08:23.835 By investing in these, you know, data-driven quality systems and 00:08:23.835 --> 00:08:28.105 digitization, we're differentiating ourselves and helping our customers to 00:08:28.105 --> 00:08:32.695 build resilient supply chains of their products into their markets in the future. 00:08:33.051 --> 00:08:33.381 Victoria: Yeah. 00:08:33.591 --> 00:08:34.101 Interesting. 00:08:34.101 --> 00:08:38.061 So it prompts so many questions for me about this, Michael, but 00:08:38.061 --> 00:08:41.561 let's just start with this whole, the market and your customers. 00:08:42.041 --> 00:08:45.551 I think about, um, engineered wood products, and I kind of 00:08:45.551 --> 00:08:48.251 make an assumption that a lot of this is coming from China today. 00:08:48.251 --> 00:08:49.541 I don't know if that's true or false. 00:08:49.811 --> 00:08:54.341 So, you know, how global is your business and, and what are the pressures that 00:08:54.341 --> 00:08:59.171 you guys are seeing given where we are, from a geopolitical perspective and just 00:08:59.171 --> 00:09:01.151 our global economic perspective today. 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:04.320 Michael: So lemme start with your, with your China Point. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:08.040 So there are wood panels made everywhere, right? 00:09:08.171 --> 00:09:08.441 Victoria: Okay. 00:09:08.790 --> 00:09:12.630 Michael: and plywood and particle board, and MDF and I can keep going, right? 00:09:12.630 --> 00:09:14.670 They're, they're made everywhere and they are imported. 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:16.410 The nice thing about our chemicals is. 00:09:17.115 --> 00:09:19.845 They're made locally, they don't travel very far. 00:09:19.905 --> 00:09:23.965 Their stability is shorter term compared to, something that you can just put 00:09:23.965 --> 00:09:28.235 on, you know, put in a container and, wait months or a year to use. 00:09:28.325 --> 00:09:30.762 So, Hexion is a global organization. 00:09:30.952 --> 00:09:33.982 We have 25 plants all around the world. 00:09:34.215 --> 00:09:37.635 for, for wood products, they're in Australia, New Zealand, 00:09:37.905 --> 00:09:39.825 Latin America, north America. 00:09:40.165 --> 00:09:44.305 We don't play too much in Asia, in the wood products area other than now 00:09:44.305 --> 00:09:45.715 through the acquisition of smart tech. 00:09:45.715 --> 00:09:48.175 We have systems sales into those regions. 00:09:48.655 --> 00:09:51.775 Um, and then we have some manufacturing also in Europe 00:09:51.925 --> 00:09:53.635 for some of our coatings and. 00:09:54.015 --> 00:09:57.165 Emulsions and, business in, in, in that space. 00:09:58.215 --> 00:10:03.135 because of our local, you know, sort of made local, so sold local, um, philosophy, 00:10:03.475 --> 00:10:08.735 we're not terribly impacted by, the macro tariffs and the cro, you know, 00:10:08.735 --> 00:10:10.295 and, and the shifts that are occurring. 00:10:10.655 --> 00:10:14.855 We do have some, you know, some exposure to cross border shipments into Canada. 00:10:15.195 --> 00:10:18.885 But that has become much more mild over time and we, you 00:10:18.885 --> 00:10:20.145 know, hope it stays that way. 00:10:20.145 --> 00:10:20.715 Of course. 00:10:21.655 --> 00:10:28.555 So the tariff risk has been but you know, our sourcing strategy is still global. 00:10:28.615 --> 00:10:31.435 We still make sure we make the best choices for our products, 00:10:31.435 --> 00:10:35.155 for their quality, and obviously to minimize any disruptions due 00:10:35.155 --> 00:10:37.585 to volatility in the market. 00:10:38.017 --> 00:10:42.037 we're constantly growing our business partnerships globally, right? 00:10:42.037 --> 00:10:45.187 We just partnered with a company called Cadent. 00:10:45.507 --> 00:10:49.977 Cadent is the leader in what's called strainer technology. 00:10:49.977 --> 00:10:53.877 So basically when you take a tree and you cut it into the pieces that make. 00:10:54.747 --> 00:10:56.007 That make OSB 00:10:56.198 --> 00:10:56.488 Victoria: Yeah. 00:10:56.637 --> 00:10:59.937 Michael: so the, the little pieces that get glued together to make a structural 00:10:59.937 --> 00:11:01.837 board, they're the world leader in that. 00:11:01.837 --> 00:11:06.503 They're based in Canada And we look to that partnership to, expand 00:11:06.503 --> 00:11:10.523 that capability, you know, into the markets that we, we play in as well. 00:11:10.823 --> 00:11:14.393 We also just announced this week a partnership with a company 00:11:14.423 --> 00:11:17.993 with an early stage organization called Bloom Biorenewables. 00:11:18.563 --> 00:11:24.503 They're a technology leader in utilizing lignin, a part of the tree that's often 00:11:24.503 --> 00:11:26.873 used to burn because it doesn't have. 00:11:27.578 --> 00:11:28.448 many uses. 00:11:28.478 --> 00:11:33.308 Um, so they use it for heating value fuel value, and we've worked with 00:11:33.308 --> 00:11:37.778 them to build novel adhesives from the tree itself, because lignin is 00:11:37.778 --> 00:11:39.698 the glue that holds the tree together. 00:11:40.174 --> 00:11:40.834 Victoria: Interesting. 00:11:41.048 --> 00:11:45.638 Michael: at international partnerships in technology basis to expand our innovation 00:11:45.638 --> 00:11:50.128 profile, to make sure we're providing, you know, the best products, to our 00:11:50.128 --> 00:11:51.658 customers and through our value chain. 00:11:52.059 --> 00:11:52.479 Victoria: Yeah. 00:11:52.569 --> 00:11:53.109 Interesting. 00:11:53.199 --> 00:11:56.349 So I know you, it sounds like, you know, you said you started out saying 00:11:56.349 --> 00:12:00.459 how you've evolved to being more of a solutions provider or that's a direction 00:12:00.459 --> 00:12:02.979 where you guys are going, but It, sounds like you're still innovating 00:12:02.979 --> 00:12:06.159 as well in products, in the services. 00:12:06.209 --> 00:12:08.454 And that becomes all, I guess, part of that solution. 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:08.929 Yeah. 00:12:09.518 --> 00:12:13.063 Michael: It, it you have to innovate both organically and inorganically. 00:12:13.223 --> 00:12:17.033 Hexion does not have the philosophy of, you know, it's often found 00:12:17.033 --> 00:12:20.543 in large organizations what, what we call not invented here. 00:12:20.573 --> 00:12:23.643 If it's not invented here, it can't be worthwhile, for their business. 00:12:24.023 --> 00:12:27.683 We believe that there are great innovations everywhere, and we wanna 00:12:27.683 --> 00:12:33.443 be partnered with the best in what they do and provide our capabilities, our 00:12:33.443 --> 00:12:39.153 strengths, to make them get to market faster or get to product sooner, with the 00:12:39.153 --> 00:12:41.403 best and highest reliability possible. 00:12:41.854 --> 00:12:46.354 Victoria: Yeah, I think it's interesting and I think we are in such a high period 00:12:46.414 --> 00:12:50.524 of innovation and transformation when you just look across not just the chemical 00:12:50.524 --> 00:12:52.174 industry, but across all industries. 00:12:52.384 --> 00:12:54.994 And so, we're seeing more and more companies. 00:12:55.929 --> 00:13:00.189 Partnering to get, uh, to sustainable products partnering to bring in the 00:13:00.189 --> 00:13:04.309 right technologies to support, their businesses, their customers, et cetera. 00:13:04.309 --> 00:13:07.359 So I think, as you say, you can't afford just to be looking 00:13:07.359 --> 00:13:09.099 internally for the solutions. 00:13:09.129 --> 00:13:10.629 They're everywhere around us. 00:13:10.834 --> 00:13:11.124 Yeah. 00:13:11.570 --> 00:13:14.330 Michael: It's a global world and you, you've gotta participate 00:13:14.330 --> 00:13:16.730 and we're a global company and you have to participate globally. 00:13:17.146 --> 00:13:17.476 Victoria: Yeah. 00:13:17.945 --> 00:13:23.135 Michael: I'm very much a believer in, you know, in, in diversity equals creativity. 00:13:24.005 --> 00:13:28.855 And, what I mean by that is, there are great ideas from people in so 00:13:28.855 --> 00:13:31.795 many different industries and so many different walks of life and 00:13:31.795 --> 00:13:35.845 so many different upbringings that creativity comes from everywhere. 00:13:35.905 --> 00:13:39.175 And we wanna be able to leverage that creativity to deliver. 00:13:39.520 --> 00:13:44.950 The best product and the best service that Hexion can give to everybody that 00:13:44.950 --> 00:13:47.110 we, that we partner with going forward. 00:13:47.110 --> 00:13:47.500 So 00:13:47.836 --> 00:13:48.076 Victoria: Yeah. 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:49.120 Michael: a goal of ours. 00:13:49.296 --> 00:13:49.566 Victoria: Yeah. 00:13:49.596 --> 00:13:50.286 Makes sense. 00:13:50.566 --> 00:13:52.726 So let's just talk a little bit about customers. 00:13:52.726 --> 00:13:55.426 I mean, so obviously customers, you've already talked about this 00:13:55.426 --> 00:13:58.816 being kind of really, um, the center of what you guys are doing. 00:13:59.176 --> 00:14:03.226 What are the biggest challenges that you maybe are hearing from your 00:14:03.226 --> 00:14:06.436 customers today as we sit here mid 2025? 00:14:06.886 --> 00:14:08.206 What are your customers saying? 00:14:08.236 --> 00:14:10.606 What are they asking for? 00:14:10.856 --> 00:14:11.906 And how are you responding? 00:14:12.417 --> 00:14:14.472 Michael: Look, you know, all customers. 00:14:14.802 --> 00:14:19.542 In the market, all companies in in the world are trying to do more with less. 00:14:19.602 --> 00:14:20.052 Right? 00:14:20.152 --> 00:14:26.052 They're constantly being pushed for, tighter costs, you know, higher margins, 00:14:27.148 --> 00:14:29.458 labor, positions in, in the market. 00:14:29.458 --> 00:14:33.922 And, Hexion wants to help provide innovations and products and 00:14:33.922 --> 00:14:36.262 solutions to solve those, right? 00:14:36.262 --> 00:14:37.672 So we, we work. 00:14:38.737 --> 00:14:43.297 Incredibly close with our customers and our partners and, and they're more 00:14:43.297 --> 00:14:44.947 partners than they are just customers. 00:14:45.397 --> 00:14:51.293 We, we look at ways of, solving their problems as part of our offering 00:14:51.293 --> 00:14:56.003 and solution and, you know, through our, some of our AI powered systems 00:14:56.003 --> 00:14:58.913 that we're now putting out into the market so our customers can 00:14:58.913 --> 00:15:02.573 operate their engineered production. 00:15:04.103 --> 00:15:09.023 safer, at the highest quality, enabling every one of their operators 00:15:09.233 --> 00:15:11.213 to be the best operator, right? 00:15:11.213 --> 00:15:15.503 Our AI systems allows everybody to perform at the highest level. 00:15:16.013 --> 00:15:19.673 And you know, so we have products like our smart quality product that 00:15:19.673 --> 00:15:24.887 we just launched at gna, last month at the Big Wood Engineering Conference. 00:15:25.277 --> 00:15:29.267 This is a high performance system. 00:15:30.062 --> 00:15:34.682 Inexpensive has an immediate return in months on the investment 00:15:35.072 --> 00:15:39.242 to drive higher product quality at lower cost and lower waste. 00:15:39.242 --> 00:15:43.772 So moving also to our sustainable solutions as well that makes sure that 00:15:43.772 --> 00:15:48.452 we're, you know, helping our customers to be on a low carbon renewable pathway. 00:15:48.643 --> 00:15:49.783 with high performance, 00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:50.459 Victoria: Yeah. 00:15:50.473 --> 00:15:54.763 Michael: our r and d systems as well are helping to challenge, you know, the 00:15:54.763 --> 00:15:59.713 sustainability around all components within the industry, where we're looking 00:15:59.713 --> 00:16:05.443 at renewable feed stocks, renewable sources, really original ways to provide 00:16:05.473 --> 00:16:10.533 adhesives and resins to the market, that deliver outsized performance. 00:16:11.223 --> 00:16:13.083 A much, much lower carbon footprint, 00:16:13.484 --> 00:16:13.844 Victoria: Yeah. 00:16:13.893 --> 00:16:16.593 Michael: that's critical for what we do and how we innovate at. 00:16:17.564 --> 00:16:18.344 Victoria: Yeah, it makes sense. 00:16:18.524 --> 00:16:22.484 So, smart quality, which you guys have, have just recently rolled out, that's 00:16:22.484 --> 00:16:25.154 targeting your customer's manufacturing. 00:16:25.424 --> 00:16:28.364 Can you tell us a little bit more about that and how it, how it works? 00:16:28.364 --> 00:16:30.974 How do they even bring it in and make it effective? 00:16:31.893 --> 00:16:37.023 Michael: So, you know, smart quality is a, um, is purposely built to be 00:16:37.023 --> 00:16:39.663 installed on the production line for eng 00:16:39.884 --> 00:16:40.094 Victoria: Hmm. 00:16:40.203 --> 00:16:42.273 Michael: all types of engineering wood panels. 00:16:42.703 --> 00:16:47.413 It gives operators real time feedback on the product. 00:16:47.863 --> 00:16:52.693 Final product, wood panel coming out the other side of their production. 00:16:53.023 --> 00:16:57.973 So if the co, if the product has deficiencies or defects in it, they 00:16:57.973 --> 00:17:01.693 learn it fast, they learn it quick, and we provide recommendations back 00:17:01.693 --> 00:17:06.793 to the operator how to improve their system upstream to make sure that 00:17:06.853 --> 00:17:11.023 they are making changes that lead to a much higher quality score. 00:17:11.349 --> 00:17:11.639 Victoria: Yeah. 00:17:12.340 --> 00:17:16.630 Michael: everybody's wanting AI in their systems right in, in their, 00:17:16.630 --> 00:17:21.327 in their engineered systems, but our customers are, are, looking for, you 00:17:21.327 --> 00:17:26.677 know, tighter specs, higher quality, better control, more efficient operation 00:17:26.677 --> 00:17:28.867 to allow their operators to do more. 00:17:29.362 --> 00:17:30.232 In less time. 00:17:30.712 --> 00:17:31.042 Right? 00:17:31.042 --> 00:17:32.692 And this solves that problem. 00:17:33.082 --> 00:17:37.432 This meets that demand with actionable insights for them to solve. 00:17:37.912 --> 00:17:40.892 And this system can be downloaded over the web. 00:17:41.462 --> 00:17:43.592 It's got a small monthly fee. 00:17:44.042 --> 00:17:50.785 And it will deliver, the highest returns of any product in the industry on a 00:17:50.785 --> 00:17:52.945 very simple, very capable install. 00:17:53.785 --> 00:17:58.405 this will be a, a lead up to our further product, which is called Smart Press. 00:17:59.005 --> 00:18:01.375 Not to, I know your question was on smart quality, but 00:18:01.426 --> 00:18:01.866 Victoria: it's fine. 00:18:01.945 --> 00:18:02.695 Michael: opportunity to 00:18:02.706 --> 00:18:02.946 Victoria: we are. 00:18:03.016 --> 00:18:03.306 Yeah, 00:18:03.325 --> 00:18:03.445 Michael: our, 00:18:03.946 --> 00:18:04.186 Victoria: absolutely. 00:18:04.525 --> 00:18:07.765 Michael: talk about our, our next, uh, our, our bigger product, which 00:18:07.765 --> 00:18:10.615 is Smart press that automates the. 00:18:11.035 --> 00:18:14.695 Temperature and the pressure and the quality of the product as well. 00:18:15.005 --> 00:18:21.358 To build a foundation of an AI fully enabled system, to the operator 00:18:21.358 --> 00:18:22.708 and to the, you know, to the. 00:18:23.908 --> 00:18:24.958 of the wood panels. 00:18:25.228 --> 00:18:29.038 So we're looking at becoming what we're calling the ultimate operator. 00:18:29.458 --> 00:18:33.628 And the ultimate operator is, you know, allowing, you know, the operations team 00:18:33.628 --> 00:18:38.908 to work at the highest level so that every board they make is the best board 00:18:38.908 --> 00:18:41.608 they can and deliver to the customer. 00:18:41.608 --> 00:18:41.728 So 00:18:41.784 --> 00:18:42.074 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:42.448 --> 00:18:45.538 Michael: kind of a door opener and smart press is changing the game. 00:18:46.029 --> 00:18:46.359 Victoria: Yeah. 00:18:46.389 --> 00:18:46.659 Okay. 00:18:46.659 --> 00:18:49.359 So I'm gonna be a little bit of a devil's advocate here, Michael, 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:51.414 in, in, in the sense of, you know. 00:18:51.786 --> 00:18:54.936 I guess the question I have is really how receptive are customers to this? 00:18:54.936 --> 00:19:00.066 Because I could see them saying, Hey, Michael and the Hexion team, that's great, 00:19:00.066 --> 00:19:02.916 but we want you to provide adhesives. 00:19:02.916 --> 00:19:07.566 We're not asking you to get into our actual operations, and are you 00:19:07.566 --> 00:19:09.396 equipped to be part of our operations? 00:19:09.666 --> 00:19:10.896 How would you respond to that? 00:19:10.896 --> 00:19:16.866 Because it seems like you're getting really intimately invested, not just in 00:19:16.866 --> 00:19:19.056 your products, but in the overall system. 00:19:20.226 --> 00:19:21.726 And production system, right? 00:19:21.936 --> 00:19:22.266 Yeah. 00:19:22.360 --> 00:19:24.100 Michael: you something that's incredibly surprising. 00:19:25.090 --> 00:19:30.790 Ion's technical service team is badged to walk into a customer's 00:19:30.790 --> 00:19:34.060 site and most of our customers, we have that type of intimacy. 00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:39.130 They can go in and tell operators to make changes and they will be listened to 00:19:39.426 --> 00:19:39.816 Victoria: Wow. 00:19:40.690 --> 00:19:42.700 Michael: So we're already doing this, we're 00:19:42.821 --> 00:19:43.111 Victoria: Okay. 00:19:43.210 --> 00:19:44.590 Michael: it through a personal. 00:19:45.835 --> 00:19:46.315 Right. 00:19:46.375 --> 00:19:50.305 So our knowledge of how the system works and how it operates. 00:19:50.965 --> 00:19:53.245 Is above any one of our competitors. 00:19:53.365 --> 00:19:56.305 We are the best when it comes to this. 00:19:56.635 --> 00:20:01.285 And I'll tell you, the AI system, the information that is being built from the 00:20:01.285 --> 00:20:07.825 AI system allows us to engineer glue and resin at a much, much more customizable 00:20:08.176 --> 00:20:08.466 Victoria: Yeah. 00:20:08.575 --> 00:20:08.905 Michael: Right? 00:20:08.905 --> 00:20:11.785 You know, we hear in the news about custom medicines, right? 00:20:11.785 --> 00:20:15.705 That fit our DNA and fit our, our specific microbiome and 00:20:15.836 --> 00:20:16.286 Victoria: Yeah. 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:21.050 Michael: Well now knowing the process and knowing the wood species and 00:20:21.050 --> 00:20:25.490 knowing the, the, the properties that come along with all of that, we can 00:20:25.490 --> 00:20:30.860 now develop resins that are singularly focused for the specific plant on 00:20:30.860 --> 00:20:32.690 the specific day of their operation. 00:20:33.315 --> 00:20:38.565 So think about that capability to enable what we are most known for, as you 00:20:38.565 --> 00:20:45.315 said, our resins, our glues, but now through AI and enablement on efficiency 00:20:45.315 --> 00:20:49.185 improvement for the customer and cost savings in the millions of dollars, 00:20:49.415 --> 00:20:53.135 we can also customize the glue that works better for them so they get even 00:20:53.135 --> 00:20:54.845 better products and better performance. 00:20:55.516 --> 00:20:56.026 Victoria: Wow. 00:20:56.165 --> 00:20:57.995 Michael: circle and the customers are demanding it. 00:20:58.055 --> 00:20:58.235 We 00:20:58.336 --> 00:20:58.666 Victoria: Yeah. 00:20:58.685 --> 00:21:01.385 Michael: list on installation of all of our systems. 00:21:02.046 --> 00:21:03.786 Victoria: how is the workforce responding? 00:21:03.786 --> 00:21:06.286 Because, you know, one of the questions, that I think about. 00:21:07.426 --> 00:21:12.976 Especially as we start adopting more and more, AI is having workforce 00:21:12.976 --> 00:21:18.626 readiness to actually, , utilize these tools and, and frankly, it's changing 00:21:18.626 --> 00:21:20.576 the way they work quite dramatically. 00:21:20.796 --> 00:21:24.126 They have to upskill differently than they do today. 00:21:24.126 --> 00:21:24.426 Right? 00:21:24.456 --> 00:21:27.936 So I think about, the manufacturing process is often thought as being very. 00:21:28.416 --> 00:21:32.046 Manual, although we know there's a ton of automation, but adding this additional 00:21:32.046 --> 00:21:38.456 layer of smart sophistication, requires more upskilling of the workforce. 00:21:38.456 --> 00:21:41.816 Do you, do you see this when you talk with your own workforce 00:21:41.816 --> 00:21:43.076 and your customer's workforce? 00:21:43.967 --> 00:21:47.207 Michael: So I, I could speak to Hexion and how we use ai. 00:21:47.267 --> 00:21:47.777 You know, we. 00:21:48.572 --> 00:21:50.612 We make AI a requirement at Hexion. 00:21:51.163 --> 00:21:51.313 Victoria: Hmm. 00:21:51.542 --> 00:21:55.232 Michael: that every associate that we hire today must have 00:21:55.232 --> 00:21:58.652 some or familiarity with ai. 00:21:59.417 --> 00:22:00.137 just a must. 00:22:00.137 --> 00:22:03.137 It makes everybody so much more productive and so much more capable. 00:22:04.007 --> 00:22:07.877 I constantly groan every time I get an email and we're talking. 00:22:07.877 --> 00:22:12.257 If we're talking about AI and somebody says, oh, I, I wrote this email. 00:22:12.257 --> 00:22:13.697 I didn't use ai, right? 00:22:13.817 --> 00:22:18.557 And like there's a stigma to using ai, and I think that needs to go away very quickly 00:22:19.097 --> 00:22:20.477 because I think the stigma should be. 00:22:20.762 --> 00:22:22.472 Why aren't you using ai? 00:22:22.592 --> 00:22:22.862 Right? 00:22:22.862 --> 00:22:25.862 I would rather that email say, Hey, I wrote this with AI to save myself 00:22:25.862 --> 00:22:30.032 10 minutes, and I was able to move on to another project that's producing 00:22:30.032 --> 00:22:33.332 value for our customers and for our partners in everything we do. 00:22:33.675 --> 00:22:37.485 at the customer side for the enablement of ai, it's allowing our, 00:22:37.575 --> 00:22:42.795 our, our partners to utilize their resources at a higher level, right? 00:22:42.871 --> 00:22:43.091 Victoria: Hmm. 00:22:43.365 --> 00:22:47.235 Michael: operator is working at an equal level, whether they've been 00:22:47.235 --> 00:22:49.065 there for one year or 30 years. 00:22:49.830 --> 00:22:55.560 So that really enables a level, uh, of the level of the playing field 00:22:55.560 --> 00:22:56.850 that's never been seen before. 00:22:57.780 --> 00:23:02.940 look at this as that those people can now be used for other operations, other 00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:07.410 capabilities in the organization to make sure that they are running safely and 00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:09.660 and smart throughout the entire way. 00:23:09.660 --> 00:23:15.330 So we look at this As AI is a pure enablement and if you build it correctly 00:23:15.330 --> 00:23:19.110 with the right screens, the right recommendations, the right training 00:23:19.290 --> 00:23:21.857 embedded, upskilling is not a problem. 00:23:22.080 --> 00:23:25.770 because it's very intuitive, it's very capable, and you can always say no to 00:23:25.770 --> 00:23:29.520 the recommendation if you feel that you know better and you know, smarter. 00:23:29.610 --> 00:23:31.230 We don't force the change. 00:23:31.560 --> 00:23:35.640 We allow the decision making to be made by those that feel they are the 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.890 experts, but we believe that our systems. 00:23:40.191 --> 00:23:40.431 Victoria: Yeah. 00:23:40.491 --> 00:23:41.091 Makes sense. 00:23:41.121 --> 00:23:45.561 Well, and I think the other piece on this is, um, certainly we've all seen 00:23:45.561 --> 00:23:49.431 across the industry, not just the chemical industry, but many industries, 00:23:49.791 --> 00:23:54.764 really a talent gap in this concern about, enough of an available workforce. 00:23:54.764 --> 00:23:55.094 So. 00:23:55.704 --> 00:24:00.294 To the degree that there is AI and other automation and digitization 00:24:00.294 --> 00:24:05.754 tools that help alleviate some of the, um, the human intervention needs 00:24:05.754 --> 00:24:10.504 or putting people into higher value, work activities, it also addresses 00:24:10.504 --> 00:24:12.484 potentially some of this talent gap. 00:24:12.514 --> 00:24:16.354 Um, and just the, the sheer physical gap of number of people available to work. 00:24:17.087 --> 00:24:19.367 Michael: Look, AI needs to be run through hr, not through it. 00:24:20.752 --> 00:24:24.802 I'm, I'm a very big believer in that because it's a skillset that 00:24:24.922 --> 00:24:26.362 just is an enablement, right? 00:24:26.362 --> 00:24:30.802 With turnover of, of people with, you know, don't wanna say people 00:24:30.802 --> 00:24:32.482 are any less loyal than they were. 00:24:32.582 --> 00:24:36.242 We have associates at, at Hexion that have been here 30, 40 years and, 00:24:36.332 --> 00:24:39.692 and, you know, their, their children are here and, you know, all of that. 00:24:39.722 --> 00:24:42.512 So we love that generational capability. 00:24:42.882 --> 00:24:45.012 But AI is an enabling tool. 00:24:45.102 --> 00:24:47.142 It, it, it really does allow. 00:24:47.562 --> 00:24:53.262 To help solve some of those gaps that occur because the knowledge base 00:24:53.262 --> 00:24:55.932 allows it to accelerate so much faster. 00:24:55.992 --> 00:25:00.272 And with our transformational process as well, well, where we're cross 00:25:00.272 --> 00:25:04.305 collaborative in everything we do, you know, we don't run anything in a silo. 00:25:04.335 --> 00:25:07.665 We make sure that, you know, we try and flatten the organization as much 00:25:07.665 --> 00:25:11.175 as possible and we put everybody in the room that could provide. 00:25:11.300 --> 00:25:14.870 Diverse thought, um, so that you can challenge the status 00:25:14.870 --> 00:25:17.630 quo and make sure you're making advancements in everything you do. 00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:21.830 And we think that's the enablement to work in a function of, you know, 00:25:21.860 --> 00:25:23.870 how the, the world is moving today. 00:25:24.301 --> 00:25:24.571 Victoria: Yeah. 00:25:24.571 --> 00:25:25.051 That's great. 00:25:25.231 --> 00:25:27.631 Well, and of course Michael, I mean, throughout your career 00:25:27.631 --> 00:25:28.741 you've been an innovator, right? 00:25:28.741 --> 00:25:29.641 A hundred patents. 00:25:29.641 --> 00:25:34.851 You're clearly comfortable with, adopting a bracing and developing new 00:25:34.851 --> 00:25:36.441 things, which is really incredible. 00:25:37.004 --> 00:25:40.034 So let, yeah, let me, let me ask this question. 00:25:40.034 --> 00:25:43.814 I, I, you know, we're kind of getting to the close of our, our time together. 00:25:44.018 --> 00:25:45.278 and I love to ask this question. 00:25:45.278 --> 00:25:47.828 In fact, I hear from listeners that they love to hear the 00:25:47.828 --> 00:25:49.268 answers to these questions. 00:25:49.268 --> 00:25:53.678 So what advice would you give to a young professional just 00:25:53.858 --> 00:25:58.868 entering the industry that says, you know, how do I make an impact? 00:25:59.084 --> 00:26:00.944 How do I achieve the success maybe that. 00:26:00.944 --> 00:26:01.484 you've achieved? 00:26:01.484 --> 00:26:02.714 What advice do you offer people? 00:26:03.608 --> 00:26:06.663 Michael: So, so number one is you have to stay curious. 00:26:06.783 --> 00:26:08.853 You have to keep asking the question. 00:26:09.243 --> 00:26:11.883 How, why, what, right? 00:26:11.913 --> 00:26:16.653 It, it's, you can't be afraid to ask the dumb question in a room. 00:26:16.833 --> 00:26:21.723 I asked some of the, some of the simplest questions because if I'm curious on 00:26:21.723 --> 00:26:25.503 something, I'm sure somebody else in the room as well, and that in that 00:26:25.503 --> 00:26:33.003 inquisitiveness is critical to being, you know, successful in any organization 00:26:33.423 --> 00:26:35.703 if you don't lean in and ask questions. 00:26:36.303 --> 00:26:39.483 Challenges are gonna persist and you're not gonna be able to really 00:26:40.803 --> 00:26:43.923 and, and transform an organization. 00:26:43.923 --> 00:26:47.883 Sometimes the simplest question, not the question that'll change something, 00:26:47.883 --> 00:26:51.303 but maybe how somebody answers that question will give somebody an idea 00:26:51.303 --> 00:26:54.363 on a problem that they're working on that's not being discussed today. 00:26:55.238 --> 00:27:00.183 So it's really about that empowerment of information and that spread of, you know, 00:27:00.183 --> 00:27:02.433 of, of knowledge across the organization. 00:27:03.723 --> 00:27:07.413 I'm a very big fan of being the dumbest person in the room. 00:27:07.847 --> 00:27:12.197 Um, and that is a goal that I've had my entire career. 00:27:12.617 --> 00:27:16.037 I surround myself with the smartest people I can. 00:27:16.097 --> 00:27:17.867 It makes my job really easy. 00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:23.650 So for me, if you can have a, you know, like I said, a diverse, capable, 00:27:23.650 --> 00:27:30.687 inquisitive, hungry team around you, is the best place to be in the world. 00:27:31.467 --> 00:27:37.407 Because your organization will constantly have that success and it's really 00:27:37.407 --> 00:27:38.907 about getting in a room together. 00:27:38.997 --> 00:27:39.327 Right? 00:27:39.327 --> 00:27:39.447 And 00:27:39.653 --> 00:27:39.943 Victoria: Yeah. 00:27:40.197 --> 00:27:41.427 Michael: try and be present. 00:27:41.917 --> 00:27:44.773 When I was at Bell Labs, years and years and years ago, I. 00:27:45.958 --> 00:27:50.338 bell Labs is the place where the transistor was invented and, you 00:27:50.338 --> 00:27:55.288 know, and c programming and Unix and, you know, wireless communications. 00:27:55.288 --> 00:27:55.468 Right. 00:27:55.468 --> 00:27:58.318 It was an innovation, Disneyland of sorts. 00:27:59.218 --> 00:28:04.115 um, my first day I was invited to lunch by a host and he was a Nobel Prize 00:28:04.115 --> 00:28:05.525 winner, and I was sat at this lunch 00:28:05.536 --> 00:28:05.686 Victoria: Wow. 00:28:06.125 --> 00:28:09.845 Michael: These preeminent scientists, Nobel Prize winners, fields, medal 00:28:09.845 --> 00:28:13.715 winners, you know, national Academy of Science, medicine and Engineering. 00:28:13.715 --> 00:28:18.545 They were all diverse in education, and he came up to me in the middle of lunch 00:28:18.545 --> 00:28:20.675 and kind of whispered in my ear and said. 00:28:21.290 --> 00:28:25.310 What is, what do you think the greatest invention to innovation is? 00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:28.850 And this guy won a Nobel Prize in physics, so I was like, oh my God, I 00:28:28.850 --> 00:28:30.380 gotta come up with something that he did. 00:28:30.727 --> 00:28:34.267 and I very quickly, you know, named something in spectroscopy that I thought 00:28:34.267 --> 00:28:37.687 would be, you know, make me sound smart and him happy that it, you know, 00:28:37.687 --> 00:28:39.347 involved, some of the stuff he worked in. 00:28:40.097 --> 00:28:42.527 he goes, no, the cafeteria. 00:28:43.352 --> 00:28:47.282 was before interdisciplinary science or as interdisciplinary sciences. 00:28:47.282 --> 00:28:50.222 Got, but you had a mathematician talking to a biologist. 00:28:50.222 --> 00:28:52.862 A biologist talking to a chemist, a chemist talking to a physicist, 00:28:52.862 --> 00:28:55.082 a physicist talking to an engineer, and so on and so forth. 00:28:55.952 --> 00:28:59.582 And that really was the key to the success of innovation. 00:28:59.582 --> 00:29:04.232 You just, if you could keep asking questions and keep pushing experiences 00:29:04.232 --> 00:29:06.572 and learnings, sky's the limit. 00:29:06.992 --> 00:29:09.812 That really to me would be the two things that I think are 00:29:09.812 --> 00:29:15.062 critical to becoming a success in whatever your endeavor to pursue. 00:29:15.553 --> 00:29:15.973 Victoria: Love it. 00:29:16.123 --> 00:29:16.603 Love it, love it. 00:29:16.843 --> 00:29:19.153 Michael, This has been a great conversation. 00:29:19.153 --> 00:29:21.013 I've really enjoyed spending time with you today. 00:29:21.558 --> 00:29:22.488 Michael: This has been wonderful. 00:29:22.488 --> 00:29:23.988 Thank you so much for this opportunity. 00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:26.849 Victoria: Thanks for joining me, and thank you everyone for joining us today. 00:29:26.849 --> 00:29:29.369 Keep listening, keep following, keep sharing, and we will 00:29:29.369 --> 00:29:30.784 talk with you again soon. 00:29:32.346 --> 00:29:34.566 Thanks for joining us today on The Chemical Show. 00:29:34.896 --> 00:29:39.396 If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, 00:29:39.636 --> 00:29:43.026 and most importantly, share it with your friends and colleagues. 00:29:44.016 --> 00:29:47.346 For more insights, visit the Chemical show.com 00:29:47.826 --> 00:29:49.311 and connect with us on LinkedIn. 00:29:50.076 --> 00:29:54.036 You can find me at Victoria King Meyer on LinkedIn, and you can also 00:29:54.036 --> 00:29:56.196 find us at The Chemical Show Podcast. 00:29:56.376 --> 00:29:59.556 Join us next time for more conversations and strategies 00:29:59.856 --> 00:30:01.626 shaping the future of the industry. 00:30:02.016 --> 00:30:02.736 We'll see you soon.