{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":6.31,"endTime":10.12,"body":"Welcome to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where I interview"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":10.12,"endTime":13.93,"body":"various instructional designers to figure out what instructional designers do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":14.35,"endTime":16.209,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":16.87,"endTime":20.98,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider subscribing or leaving"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":20.98,"endTime":23.95,"body":"a comment on the show Notes blog post and consider"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":23.95,"endTime":26.92,"body":"helping to support the podcast with a donation to my"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":26.92,"endTime":27.79,"body":"Patreon account."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":28.24,"endTime":30.55,"body":"This interview is not an endorsement of the product one"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":30.55,"endTime":31.18,"body":"way or the other."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":31.51,"endTime":34.78,"body":"Please see this episode as a learning opportunity for both"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":34.78,"endTime":37.78,"body":"myself as interviewer and the founders of Mindsmith."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":38.2,"endTime":39.85,"body":"We would love to hear your thoughts."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":40.21,"endTime":43.12,"body":"Please leave a comment in the show notes at Demystifying"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":43.12,"endTime":44.41,"body":"Instructional Design dot com."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":44.83,"endTime":46.27,"body":"Today I've got some special guests."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":46.3,"endTime":49.21,"body":"I'm talking to the founders of Mindsmith."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":49.63,"endTime":52.12,"body":"Can you please introduce yourselves and tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":52.12,"endTime":52.96,"body":"bit about"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":52.99,"endTime":53.32,"body":"Mindsmith."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":53.98,"endTime":54.94,"body":"Hi, my name's Ethan."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":54.97,"endTime":56.77,"body":"I'm the head of product at Mindsmith."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":57.04,"endTime":60.91,"body":"We all met through a program at Brigham Young"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":60.91,"endTime":63.1,"body":"University called the Sandbox Program."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":63.13,"endTime":64.33,"body":"We're in the second cohort."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":64.48,"endTime":66.55,"body":"It's a tech startup incubator."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":66.91,"endTime":69.64,"body":"So this is a really neat program where we just get"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":69.64,"endTime":72.37,"body":"tons of school credit for starting a tech company."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":73.27,"endTime":75.64,"body":"Although it sounds like we're just in it for a"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":75.64,"endTime":77.92,"body":"couple of semesters, we're actually in it for the long"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":77.92,"endTime":78.25,"body":"haul."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":78.58,"endTime":81.55,"body":"When we started as a team, we decided that this"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":81.55,"endTime":83.29,"body":"is something that we wanted to be all in on."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":83.5,"endTime":86.5,"body":"And as we've grown and as we have interviewed people"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":86.5,"endTime":90.85,"body":"and grown as a company, we've realized that instructional design"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":90.85,"endTime":91.9,"body":"is where we want to be."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":91.93,"endTime":94.69,"body":"We started out in the higher ed space."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":94.69,"endTime":97.81,"body":"We wanted to create a tool for teachers that made"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":97.81,"endTime":102.16,"body":"creating dynamic and interactive lessons much more easy and just"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":102.16,"endTime":104.08,"body":"incredibly intuitive for teachers to pick up."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":104.53,"endTime":106.45,"body":"But we realized that a lot of the problems that"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":106.45,"endTime":109.84,"body":"teachers face are also faced by people all around the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":109.84,"endTime":110.29,"body":"world."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":110.3,"endTime":113.47,"body":"So anyone that wants to create a lesson has a"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":113.47,"endTime":117.2,"body":"hard time learning the current authoring tools for instructional designers."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":117.22,"endTime":119.74,"body":"Really, the only tools available to them right now are"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":119.8,"endTime":122.44,"body":"things like PowerPoint, which don't allow for any sort of"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":122.44,"endTime":125.98,"body":"interactive content or best practices and pedagogy."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":126.4,"endTime":130.57,"body":"We see ourselves as democratizing instructional design, bringing instructional design"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":130.57,"endTime":131.23,"body":"to the masses."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":131.26,"endTime":133.0,"body":"Like I said, I'm Ethan, Head of Product."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":133.33,"endTime":134.11,"body":"I'm Zach."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":134.14,"endTime":136.18,"body":"I'm head of development here at Mindsmith."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":136.66,"endTime":137.61,"body":"And I'm Christy."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":137.62,"endTime":140.08,"body":"I'm in charge of design and UX design."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":140.47,"endTime":143.14,"body":"We've listened to your podcast a little bit, Rebecca, but"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":143.14,"endTime":144.79,"body":"let's hear an intro from you."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":144.82,"endTime":145.63,"body":"Who are you?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":145.66,"endTime":148.09,"body":"Where did you find your passion for instructional design?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":148.42,"endTime":151.9,"body":"I'm an instructional designer and an instructor of instructional design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":152.05,"endTime":155.59,"body":"I teach instructional design at the University of Massachusetts, Boston."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":155.68,"endTime":160.81,"body":"I found instructional design when I was initially laid off."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":160.81,"endTime":164.41,"body":"I started my career in computer science as a quality"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":164.41,"endTime":166.31,"body":"assurance person, which was great."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":166.34,"endTime":167.07,"body":"Loved it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":167.08,"endTime":169.06,"body":"But right up until Y2K."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":169.06,"endTime":170.89,"body":"And then, of course, the tech bust happened."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":170.89,"endTime":173.89,"body":"And when the tech bust happens, I lost my job"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":173.89,"endTime":177.22,"body":"and I had an opportunity to really reflect on what"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":177.22,"endTime":181.3,"body":"I was doing and realize that even though I was"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":181.3,"endTime":184.03,"body":"working in quality assurance and then in product management, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":184.03,"endTime":186.49,"body":"realized that what I was doing all the time was"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":186.49,"endTime":191.83,"body":"education and teaching customers and doing adult education and more"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":191.83,"endTime":194.35,"body":"than adult education -- professional education."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":194.8,"endTime":197.68,"body":"I was teaching, I worked for a telecom company."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":197.68,"endTime":200.2,"body":"I was teaching people how to use the telecom equipment."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":200.44,"endTime":204.94,"body":"And in my explorations of that, I discovered that really"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":204.94,"endTime":206.77,"body":"what I was doing was instructional design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":207.49,"endTime":210.96,"body":"And so I claimed the title of instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":210.97,"endTime":213.31,"body":"I went back to school and did a master's, and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":213.31,"endTime":216.55,"body":"that really helped me make a career transition."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":216.97,"endTime":218.27,"body":"I haven't looked back since."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":218.29,"endTime":221.62,"body":"I love helping create content."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":221.65,"endTime":224.8,"body":"I've worked for a variety of different companies and done"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":225.31,"endTime":228.97,"body":"instructional design in the context of health care, but also"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":228.97,"endTime":231.19,"body":"in the context of cryptography."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":231.61,"endTime":232.1,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":232.15,"endTime":233.26,"body":"And corporate."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":233.26,"endTime":236.59,"body":"Yeah, like a whole variety of different areas."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":237.01,"endTime":240.4,"body":"But at the moment, I'm really enjoying creating courses and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":240.4,"endTime":242.86,"body":"doing stuff in the higher ed space."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":243.31,"endTime":245.35,"body":"Can you tell us a little bit about how your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":245.35,"endTime":246.16,"body":"product works?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":246.43,"endTime":248.41,"body":"What problem does it solve for me?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":248.86,"endTime":250.69,"body":"Yeah, that's a great question."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":251.2,"endTime":255.67,"body":"Mindsmith. was born out of wanting to create a"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":255.67,"endTime":259.39,"body":"product that was easy for teachers, like we mentioned teachers"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":259.39,"endTime":261.79,"body":"and professors to pick up and start using."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":262.18,"endTime":265.42,"body":"We found that as we learned about the current tools,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":265.42,"endTime":269.59,"body":"the instructional design tools out there, things like Articulate, things"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":269.59,"endTime":274.06,"body":"like Storyline, Captivate, even like the more modern ones, like"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":274.06,"endTime":278.86,"body":"Chameleon or some of these other more newer instructional design"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":278.86,"endTime":283.39,"body":"authoring tools that they all have long tutorial cycles."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":283.39,"endTime":286.24,"body":"And the teachers that we were interviewing didn't have time"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":286.24,"endTime":289.0,"body":"to do those tutorials or learn how to use these"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":289.0,"endTime":289.72,"body":"tools."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":289.72,"endTime":292.66,"body":"And so what they were doing instead was outsourcing any"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":292.66,"endTime":296.83,"body":"of the learning to their instructional design departments, who then"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":296.83,"endTime":298.18,"body":"take a long time to build."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":298.18,"endTime":300.73,"body":"And it's this whole back and forth that's a real"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":300.73,"endTime":302.83,"body":"headache for teachers when they just want to build the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":302.83,"endTime":303.91,"body":"courses themselves."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":304.06,"endTime":306.52,"body":"So we're like, okay, let's be the sort of Canva"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":306.52,"endTime":307.51,"body":"of instructional design."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":307.51,"endTime":311.02,"body":"Let's make it just so intuitive to create a course"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":311.17,"endTime":312.82,"body":"that anyone can pick it up and start."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":312.85,"endTime":314.29,"body":"And so that's where we are with teachers."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":314.29,"endTime":316.69,"body":"And like I said, we've transitioned more recently into the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":316.69,"endTime":320.62,"body":"private sector as well, helping companies like A Ramen House"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":320.62,"endTime":324.34,"body":"train their employees on front of house best practices and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":324.34,"endTime":324.91,"body":"things like that."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":324.95,"endTime":326.89,"body":"Yeah, so that's part of the problem we solve is"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":326.89,"endTime":328.57,"body":"just like being intuitive."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":328.58,"endTime":331.99,"body":"There are also like other smaller problems in instructional design"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":331.99,"endTime":332.53,"body":"tools."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":332.56,"endTime":336.16,"body":"Authoring tools like accessibility has been a big one that"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":336.16,"endTime":337.93,"body":"we didn't know about going into the space."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":337.93,"endTime":340.36,"body":"But people like instructional designers have told us time and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":340.36,"endTime":344.71,"body":"time again, most tools are hard to make fully accessible,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":344.71,"endTime":346.73,"body":"and that doesn't make any sense."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":346.75,"endTime":349.93,"body":"We also found that as we learned about pedagogy and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":349.99,"endTime":353.71,"body":"trends in instructional design, like cognitive load theory is a"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":353.71,"endTime":354.52,"body":"huge thing."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":354.52,"endTime":357.91,"body":"Like how are people processing information like for students?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":358.09,"endTime":361.99,"body":"We're given log textbook chapters, readings like we're given PowerPoint"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":361.99,"endTime":364.09,"body":"slides and we don't engage with that content."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":364.09,"endTime":367.42,"body":"Like I'm an econ major and pretty much every class"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":367.42,"endTime":369.91,"body":"I have textbook assignments and I have never done them"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":369.91,"endTime":371.71,"body":"because they're just like way too much."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":371.89,"endTime":372.61,"body":"I don't learn."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":372.65,"endTime":373.11,"body":"From them."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":373.13,"endTime":376.46,"body":"And same with like corporate, like trainings are often long,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":376.46,"endTime":380.54,"body":"long trainings in person, or sometimes there are PowerPoints as well."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":380.57,"endTime":383.84,"body":"And so we're like, okay, what is solving this problem"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":383.84,"endTime":385.94,"body":"of long form learning is not the best way of"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":385.94,"endTime":386.39,"body":"learning."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":386.63,"endTime":388.37,"body":"And this this trend is in microearning as well."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":388.55,"endTime":391.16,"body":"So we're like, how do we appeal to the modern"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":391.16,"endTime":391.63,"body":"student?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":391.64,"endTime":393.62,"body":"How do we appeal to the way that people actually"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":393.62,"endTime":394.03,"body":"learn?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":394.04,"endTime":396.86,"body":"And that's where we've had our focus on microlearning as"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":396.86,"endTime":398.99,"body":"well, has been a really important thing for us."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":399.89,"endTime":402.23,"body":"So just, yeah, taking these huge concepts and breaking them"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":402.23,"endTime":403.91,"body":"up into bite sized pieces."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":404.18,"endTime":406.97,"body":"One of the things I actually quite like is, is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":406.97,"endTime":408.59,"body":"the microlearning but not just that."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":408.59,"endTime":410.57,"body":"Like you're not just creating it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":410.57,"endTime":413.75,"body":"The product that...the learning that you output works on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":413.75,"endTime":414.59,"body":"any device."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":414.74,"endTime":415.7,"body":"So it's not."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":415.73,"endTime":416.28,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":416.41,"endTime":416.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":416.9,"endTime":419.24,"body":"And that's how we do with like companies like Seven Taps,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":419.24,"endTime":422.45,"body":"like they're mobile first, but they're mobile only and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":422.45,"endTime":425.36,"body":"it's, it doesn't make any sense because people learn in"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":425.36,"endTime":428.54,"body":"all sorts of different environments and like we are mobile"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":428.54,"endTime":431.24,"body":"first in the way that like when you are editing"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":431.24,"endTime":433.79,"body":"a lesson, it looks like a phone viewer so they"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":433.79,"endTime":436.19,"body":"know what it looks like for the phone people, but"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":436.19,"endTime":439.46,"body":"you can send it out and it yeah, automatically fits"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":439.46,"endTime":443.27,"body":"any sort of screen, whether it's an iPad, iPhone, Excel"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":443.27,"endTime":445.97,"body":"or, I don't know, a Microsoft Zune, it doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":445.97,"endTime":448.25,"body":"And it's really important to have that versatility in an"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":448.25,"endTime":449.0,"body":"authoring tool"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":449.0,"endTime":449.36,"body":"for sure."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":449.66,"endTime":451.88,"body":"You mentioned that you had some questions for me, so"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":451.88,"endTime":453.95,"body":"why don't we just turn this over to you for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":453.95,"endTime":454.4,"body":"a little bit?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":454.82,"endTime":458.24,"body":"We wanted to ask our first question on the lines"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":458.24,"endTime":461.84,"body":"of where we're talking right now about authoring tools and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":461.84,"endTime":463.58,"body":"the changes in the space."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":464.03,"endTime":467.48,"body":"What would you change about current authoring tools?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":467.78,"endTime":470.12,"body":"What are some of your biggest hangups about what is"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":470.12,"endTime":471.68,"body":"out there aside from Mindsmith?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":471.68,"endTime":474.92,"body":"Pricing and not looking old."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":474.92,"endTime":478.37,"body":"So what I can get access to for free typically"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":478.37,"endTime":482.54,"body":"is h5p. I can do stuff in h5p It looks very"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":482.54,"endTime":483.8,"body":"dated, right?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":483.8,"endTime":486.38,"body":"So quite often the stuff that produces that are there,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":486.38,"endTime":488.33,"body":"if I want to make it look more modern, I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":488.33,"endTime":491.24,"body":"have to do a lot of CSS and a lot"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":491.24,"endTime":494.72,"body":"of changing of things to make it look more modern."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":494.96,"endTime":499.55,"body":"Sometimes simple is beautiful and being able to do that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":499.94,"endTime":501.62,"body":"is one of the things I don't like."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":501.98,"endTime":505.4,"body":"There's this interesting balance because I also want to be"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":505.4,"endTime":509.66,"body":"able to get behind the scenes sometimes, but that's because"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":509.66,"endTime":513.05,"body":"I'm a pretty technical person and so I want to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":513.05,"endTime":517.46,"body":"be able to sometimes add some JavaScript or sometimes usually"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":517.46,"endTime":518.3,"body":"it's tweaking CSS."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":518.3,"endTime":520.919,"body":"I do that more than anything else."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":521.0,"endTime":523.099,"body":"I need it to look a particular way."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":523.13,"endTime":525.32,"body":"How do I make it look that way?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":525.53,"endTime":527.48,"body":"I'm actually doing a bunch of work in WordPress right"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":527.48,"endTime":532.25,"body":"now, and I find it interesting that understanding CSS is what's"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":532.28,"endTime":536.24,"body":"needed in order to understand how the different things format"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":536.24,"endTime":540.41,"body":"in WordPress, so they're not playing to either audience, right?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":540.8,"endTime":543.89,"body":"They don't have the WSYWIG audience of make it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":543.89,"endTime":546.16,"body":"easy, make it simple, just let me click a couple"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":546.17,"endTime":546.5,"body":"buttons."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":546.5,"endTime":548.72,"body":"Make it look like a word processor, Right?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":549.02,"endTime":549.5,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":549.68,"endTime":553.28,"body":"Or you need to understand the CSS in order to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":553.28,"endTime":555.59,"body":"understand what all of the different configurations are."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":555.59,"endTime":558.26,"body":"So if you don't understand how CCS works, then you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":558.26,"endTime":561.05,"body":"know you don't understand what the different options are."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":561.17,"endTime":563.45,"body":"Yeah, it's like the worst of both worlds."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":564.38,"endTime":564.89,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":565.34,"endTime":565.79,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":565.79,"endTime":568.46,"body":"We've encountered a similar thing in that we're"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":568.46,"endTime":569.66,"body":"using WebFlow right?"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":569.69,"endTime":570.07,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":570.23,"endTime":573.53,"body":"And that's very similar where it's like it feels like"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":573.53,"endTime":574.97,"body":"it should be plug and play."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":575.12,"endTime":577.36,"body":"I have very limited CSS/HTML knowledge"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":577.42,"endTime":580.43,"body":"and so it's not good for either"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":580.43,"endTime":580.7,"body":"party."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":580.7,"endTime":583.55,"body":"It's not great for people who want to stick with"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":583.55,"endTime":583.94,"body":"code."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":583.94,"endTime":586.31,"body":"And it's not great for people who don't know anything"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":586.31,"endTime":586.9,"body":"about code."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":586.91,"endTime":589.55,"body":"Yeah, so we want to appeal to your very your"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":589.55,"endTime":590.51,"body":"average user."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":590.51,"endTime":593.57,"body":"You like base user, although we do have in the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":593.57,"endTime":593.96,"body":"pipeline."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":593.96,"endTime":595.58,"body":"So we're still pretty new."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":595.58,"endTime":599.18,"body":"We soft launched in October, so it's been two months"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":599.27,"endTime":601.97,"body":"and we're thinking like maybe we do want to be"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":601.97,"endTime":606.68,"body":"robust enough that your instructional design professional will"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":606.68,"endTime":607.88,"body":"use us as the go to."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":608.15,"endTime":609.83,"body":"And so we're like, how do we... do we toggle"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":609.83,"endTime":614.09,"body":"Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced mode?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":614.09,"endTime":616.88,"body":"Do we hide features somewhere?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":616.88,"endTime":619.22,"body":"where only an instructional designer would know or care to"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":619.22,"endTime":622.62,"body":"look for them because I think there are ways to"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":622.73,"endTime":624.2,"body":"to do it in both worlds."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":624.29,"endTime":626.21,"body":"Like initially we are going into and it's like kind"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":626.21,"endTime":630.2,"body":"of you're either or either you are WYSIWYG and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":630.2,"endTime":634.46,"body":"super simple, super basic or you're robust and have these"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":634.46,"endTime":635.75,"body":"different tools and features."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":635.75,"endTime":638.56,"body":"And we're like, we don't have to fit that."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":638.57,"endTime":641.54,"body":"There are there can be ways to appeal to both"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":641.54,"endTime":641.87,"body":"crowds."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":641.87,"endTime":644.9,"body":"And so that's what we're thinking through right now, especially"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":644.9,"endTime":646.88,"body":"on stuff, is like, how do we how do we"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":646.88,"endTime":648.56,"body":"appeal to both groups of people?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":648.68,"endTime":652.55,"body":"So yeah, stay tuned for all you technical people"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":652.55,"endTime":655.49,"body":"who are like want the CSS and want to do"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":655.49,"endTime":658.13,"body":"some coding on your lessons."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":658.13,"endTime":660.77,"body":"Probably within the next few months we'll be doing some"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":660.77,"endTime":663.17,"body":"updates that allow for more versatility."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":663.17,"endTime":663.34,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":663.35,"endTime":665.38,"body":"So I guess we have another question for you."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":665.54,"endTime":667.22,"body":"Zach, do you want to ask the next one?"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":668.12,"endTime":669.74,"body":"You've been doing all these interviews."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":669.74,"endTime":672.35,"body":"You've talked to a lot of interesting people in this"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":672.41,"endTime":673.94,"body":"space of instructional design."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":674.3,"endTime":678.23,"body":"What have been your greatest insights, like the best takeaways"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":678.53,"endTime":678.98,"body":"from them?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":679.4,"endTime":682.97,"body":"One of the biggest takeaways I've had has been that"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":683.72,"endTime":688.1,"body":"it doesn't matter what what sector you're in."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":689.03,"endTime":690.65,"body":"A lot of the things that we do are the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":690.65,"endTime":691.1,"body":"same."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":691.1,"endTime":695.33,"body":"So whether you're in the corporate sector or whether you're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":695.33,"endTime":698.96,"body":"in higher ed, your job descriptions may look very different."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":699.56,"endTime":702.26,"body":"But the processes that you follow and a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":702.26,"endTime":707.21,"body":"the concepts that we do as instructional designers are precisely"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":707.21,"endTime":707.57,"body":"the same."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":707.78,"endTime":708.5,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":708.71,"endTime":711.35,"body":"I wanted to add on to what you were talking"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":711.35,"endTime":715.25,"body":"about just now, about how many similarities there are between"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":715.25,"endTime":718.43,"body":"the different types of instructional designers, because we found the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":718.43,"endTime":720.56,"body":"same thing like some of our advisors."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":720.56,"endTime":723.53,"body":"They're not like instructional design professionals, but they were like,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":723.95,"endTime":726.05,"body":"Maybe you shouldn't try to do both."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":726.06,"endTime":729.02,"body":"Maybe you shouldn't try to do higher ed instructional designers"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":729.02,"endTime":730.58,"body":"and professors as well as"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":730.73,"endTime":731.63,"body":"corporate people."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":732.02,"endTime":734.78,"body":"And the more we've learned it's the same features."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":734.78,"endTime":738.68,"body":"Maybe a higher ed instructional designer will need an equations"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":738.68,"endTime":741.77,"body":"feature or something, which we have built for our professors"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":741.77,"endTime":743.27,"body":"and then very simple equations."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":743.39,"endTime":746.36,"body":"But other than that, it's like it's the same stuff"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":746.36,"endTime":747.71,"body":"and instructional design principles."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":748.58,"endTime":751.91,"body":"I can see certain corporate worlds that might need that."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":751.91,"endTime":754.43,"body":"If I think back to one of the people I've"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":754.43,"endTime":757.01,"body":"interviewed recently, Darlesa Cahoon."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":757.01,"endTime":759.83,"body":"She works at the Seattle airport and has to train"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":759.83,"endTime":760.67,"body":"everybody."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":761.42,"endTime":764.87,"body":"And so sometimes that math might actually be part of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":764.87,"endTime":766.57,"body":"what she has to teach, right."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":766.58,"endTime":770.33,"body":"And so giving a tool to allow her to create"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":770.33,"endTime":773.33,"body":"a course that she can then roll out on the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":773.33,"endTime":776.93,"body":"phone or roll out on a tablet or any device"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":776.93,"endTime":781.1,"body":"that's really valuable for her, because in her world, she"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":781.1,"endTime":782.66,"body":"has to really pay attention."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":782.66,"endTime":785.45,"body":"And that's another sort of interesting thing, really pay attention"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":785.45,"endTime":788.56,"body":"to who the student is and what the student needs."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":788.57,"endTime":791.66,"body":"What is the what are the things that not just"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":791.66,"endTime":793.85,"body":"what the instructor needs in order to put it in,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":793.85,"endTime":796.16,"body":"but what does the student need in order to digest?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":796.28,"endTime":798.68,"body":"And again, that's another one of those core things."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":798.68,"endTime":801.35,"body":"When we do analysis and instructional design, we ask the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":801.35,"endTime":802.91,"body":"question, who are our students?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":802.91,"endTime":803.99,"body":"What are the characteristics?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":803.99,"endTime":806.6,"body":"What do we need to know about the students in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":806.6,"endTime":809.62,"body":"order to be effective at creating training material?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":809.63,"endTime":812.66,"body":"And one of the things I love about, like the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":812.66,"endTime":817.16,"body":"idea of democratizing instructional design is that if you have"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":817.16,"endTime":820.55,"body":"the people building lessons, be the ones who interact with"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":820.55,"endTime":823.58,"body":"those people on a daily basis, like it solves so"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":823.58,"endTime":826.19,"body":"many of the problems that instructional designers deal with every"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":826.19,"endTime":826.4,"body":"day."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":826.49,"endTime":830.87,"body":"If your manager is collaboratively building a lesson with the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":830.87,"endTime":834.56,"body":"instructional designer on staff, then they can add those elements"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":834.77,"endTime":837.52,"body":"that are unique to their learners that they know like"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":837.53,"endTime":838.55,"body":"very intimately."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":838.79,"endTime":840.17,"body":"And the instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":840.17,"endTime":842.78,"body":"It seems like previously you have to do like these"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":842.78,"endTime":846.08,"body":"very long interviews and learn about... try to get into"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":846.08,"endTime":849.17,"body":"the manager or the leaders' shoes or point of view,"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":849.44,"endTime":852.26,"body":"whereas let's just bring them to the table, have them"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":852.26,"endTime":854.63,"body":"work collaboratively, put them on the lesson; let them"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":854.63,"endTime":857.81,"body":"edit things and give input more directly rather than just"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":857.81,"endTime":859.46,"body":"back and forth like this interview thing."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":859.46,"endTime":862.46,"body":"And then the instructional designer has to like, synthesize it"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":862.46,"endTime":864.44,"body":"in some way and then put it back in and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":864.44,"endTime":865.99,"body":"let's just work together on this."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":866.03,"endTime":866.45,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":866.6,"endTime":868.91,"body":"So that's another thing that that we really encourage is"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":868.91,"endTime":869.69,"body":"collaboration."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":869.69,"endTime":871.52,"body":"So sharing lessons in between."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":871.52,"endTime":873.23,"body":"It's like sharing a Google doc."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":873.32,"endTime":875.57,"body":"It's just super easy and two people can work on"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":875.57,"endTime":876.59,"body":"it at the same time."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":877.1,"endTime":880.4,"body":"Why are we still sending out static lessons, back"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":880.4,"endTime":883.76,"body":"and forth between even our SCORM files update automatically as"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":883.76,"endTime":884.87,"body":"a lesson is done."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":884.87,"endTime":888.44,"body":"And so it's it's very cloud based and collaborative is"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":888.44,"endTime":890.42,"body":"a really important feature of us as well."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":891.29,"endTime":893.16,"body":"So that's actually an interesting point."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":893.18,"endTime":897.62,"body":"So if I create my microlearning lesson, I can then"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":897.62,"endTime":899.78,"body":"add a second author is that...?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":900.11,"endTime":900.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":900.53,"endTime":901.82,"body":"And directly collaborate."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":902.18,"endTime":904.79,"body":"Yeah, that's actually a feature that a lot of tools"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":904.79,"endTime":905.45,"body":"don't have."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":905.45,"endTime":907.16,"body":"They make it very difficult."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":907.46,"endTime":908.54,"body":"It's surprising."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":909.05,"endTime":909.83,"body":"Why are we"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":909.83,"endTime":914.12,"body":"sending uneditable versions of things"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":914.12,"endTime":917.27,"body":"like, especially, I don't know, professors and their instructional"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":917.27,"endTime":918.02,"body":"design departments."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":918.02,"endTime":920.24,"body":"They hate it, but they have to like they want"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":920.24,"endTime":922.55,"body":"to edit one thing and it's like I have to"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":922.55,"endTime":925.31,"body":"send an email to my department and they have to"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":925.31,"endTime":927.5,"body":"get on their thing and then ship it back and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":927.5,"endTime":928.34,"body":"it's this whole thing."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":928.34,"endTime":930.86,"body":"So yeah, just make it cloud-based."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":931.8,"endTime":934.37,"body":"Do you want to talk a little bit about your sort of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":934.37,"endTime":935.24,"body":"SCORM package?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":935.24,"endTime":936.17,"body":"You mentioned SCORM."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":936.26,"endTime":938.6,"body":"How does that work and how is that different from"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":938.6,"endTime":939.53,"body":"what other people do?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":940.16,"endTime":942.35,"body":"Yeah at Mindsmith we're able to support all of"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":942.35,"endTime":945.2,"body":"the common learning standards like XAPI, CMI5 and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":945.23,"endTime":948.82,"body":"SCORM, the different versions of SCORM."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":949.25,"endTime":952.88,"body":"And we're able to do this like very simply and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":953.3,"endTime":957.92,"body":"really elegantly by allowing essentially the package that gets exported"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":957.92,"endTime":962.12,"body":"is just a link and a little interface to our"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":962.12,"endTime":962.66,"body":"product."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":962.96,"endTime":966.68,"body":"And so it just sends over the necessary data and"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":966.68,"endTime":971.24,"body":"then everything that - the whole course and all of that - still"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":971.24,"endTime":971.94,"body":"gets loaded from the source of truth"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":972.26,"endTime":974.81,"body":"which is your kind of Google"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":974.81,"endTime":976.49,"body":"doc published version."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":977.18,"endTime":982.07,"body":"Okay, so the version in essence loads from what's on"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":982.07,"endTime":982.64,"body":"your"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":982.64,"endTime":983.66,"body":"Mindsmith site"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":983.66,"endTime":985.73,"body":"So I can just log in to my site and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":985.73,"endTime":991.04,"body":"if I edit my lesson, the lesson that my students"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":991.04,"endTime":992.81,"body":"see just gets updated."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":992.81,"endTime":994.94,"body":"I don't have to go to my LMS and I"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":994.95,"endTime":998.54,"body":"need to reexport and then import again to get it"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":998.54,"endTime":1000.7,"body":"to update in the elements that aren't to worry about"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1000.7,"endTime":1002.53,"body":"versions from that perspective."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1003.61,"endTime":1004.33,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1004.39,"endTime":1004.72,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1004.93,"endTime":1007.48,"body":"And you can always, like, make copies."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1007.48,"endTime":1010.0,"body":"And so you can have your old versions if you're"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1010.0,"endTime":1010.69,"body":"interested."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1011.02,"endTime":1013.96,"body":"And probably in the future we'll do publish buttons so"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1013.96,"endTime":1016.69,"body":"it doesn't automatically update if you're not ready to publish"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1016.69,"endTime":1017.29,"body":"it or something."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1017.29,"endTime":1018.62,"body":"But that's how it works currently."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1018.64,"endTime":1020.38,"body":"Yeah, it's just authored in the cloud."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1020.86,"endTime":1024.73,"body":"And where do people go to access your tool?"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1025.15,"endTime":1025.54,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1025.54,"endTime":1030.28,"body":"So Mindsmith is always, will always have, a free"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1030.28,"endTime":1031.03,"body":"forever plan."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1031.05,"endTime":1033.61,"body":"You can just go to Mindsmith dot org"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1033.61,"endTime":1034.3,"body":"up a free account."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1035.73,"endTime":1035.98,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1036.06,"endTime":1037.23,"body":"It'll take you to another site"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1037.26,"endTime":1038.85,"body":"app.Mindsmith.org but..."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1038.939,"endTime":1040.76,"body":"Yeah, that's it."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1040.77,"endTime":1042.81,"body":"Just go to our website and you can learn about"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1042.81,"endTime":1044.339,"body":"us and learn about what we're doing."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1044.4,"endTime":1045.36,"body":"And give it a try."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1045.39,"endTime":1045.93,"body":"Cool."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1045.959,"endTime":1046.319,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1046.62,"endTime":1049.77,"body":"Before I ask my last question, are there other questions"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1049.77,"endTime":1050.85,"body":"you want to ask me?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1051.12,"endTime":1052.44,"body":"Yes, Christy has one."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1052.98,"endTime":1053.43,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1054.3,"endTime":1058.02,"body":"You've probably mentioned this on previous podcasts but I'm"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1058.02,"endTime":1061.71,"body":"in UX design and it's new from the past 15-20"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1061.71,"endTime":1062.13,"body":"years."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1062.13,"endTime":1064.17,"body":"And so I get a lot of people asking me,"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1064.17,"endTime":1065.13,"body":"like, what is that?"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1065.46,"endTime":1067.95,"body":"And I feel like it's the same for instructional design."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1068.16,"endTime":1070.71,"body":"So it's not as well known."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1070.72,"endTime":1074.97,"body":"So how would you describe instructional design to someone who"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1074.97,"endTime":1076.47,"body":"doesn't know what it is?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1076.92,"endTime":1078.02,"body":"That's a great question."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1078.06,"endTime":1080.28,"body":"I ask a lot of the people I interview."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1080.46,"endTime":1081.73,"body":"What's your elevator pitch?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1081.75,"endTime":1082.14,"body":"What?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1082.38,"endTime":1084.21,"body":"How do you describe instructional design?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1084.69,"endTime":1089.46,"body":"I talk about how it's adult based learning and specifically"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1089.46,"endTime":1097.92,"body":"creating training materials or creating learning experiences for adults and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1097.92,"endTime":1100.89,"body":"not within the K to 12, not typically within the"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1100.89,"endTime":1106.02,"body":"K-12 system, which is actually interesting because where instructional design"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1106.35,"endTime":1107.6,"body":"is in higher ed."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1107.61,"endTime":1110.67,"body":"So it is in formal education, but it's also in"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1110.67,"endTime":1111.51,"body":"the corporate world."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1111.78,"endTime":1116.82,"body":"And so it depends on who's asking me what their"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1116.82,"endTime":1119.97,"body":"background is, because I'm trying to find out in other"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1119.97,"endTime":1122.43,"body":"one of those cognitive theories, I'm trying to figure out"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1122.43,"endTime":1124.8,"body":"what they already know so I can give them an"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1124.8,"endTime":1126.87,"body":"example that ties in to what they know."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1127.62,"endTime":1128.01,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1128.01,"endTime":1131.46,"body":"So if they understand higher ed, I'm going to give"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1131.46,"endTime":1134.16,"body":"them an example of, Oh yeah, I work with professors"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1134.16,"endTime":1136.53,"body":"to help professors develop better courses because a lot of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1136.53,"endTime":1138.93,"body":"professors are not trained on how to teach."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1139.41,"endTime":1142.83,"body":"And so I can go in as the expert educator"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1142.83,"endTime":1145.8,"body":"but not the expert in their field and help them"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1146.04,"endTime":1147.18,"body":"create better courses."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1147.69,"endTime":1150.87,"body":"But if I'm talking to somebody who works at Starbucks,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1150.87,"endTime":1154.89,"body":"for example, I can talk about their new hire training"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1155.34,"endTime":1157.47,"body":"and when they first started and learned how to make"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1157.47,"endTime":1160.17,"body":"the different things while somebody designed that, actually one of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1160.17,"endTime":1163.44,"body":"my students was designing that the other day, how to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1165.93,"body":"teach the baristas and what they need to know for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1165.93,"endTime":1166.58,"body":"different things."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1166.59,"endTime":1170.67,"body":"And so there's a context everywhere for learning."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1170.67,"endTime":1175.11,"body":"And so it's really about understanding how people learn and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1175.11,"endTime":1179.88,"body":"how to create opportunities or experiences to help encourage"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1179.88,"endTime":1181.35,"body":"that learning or support that learning."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1182.01,"endTime":1182.34,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1182.55,"endTime":1183.15,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1183.78,"endTime":1186.63,"body":"That's like, that's it's cool to see how you can"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1187.05,"endTime":1190.35,"body":"look at people's backgrounds and explain to their understanding."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1190.38,"endTime":1192.48,"body":"It requires an experienced instructor."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1195.78,"endTime":1197.73,"body":"That's hard to come up with on the spot, but"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1197.97,"endTime":1198.51,"body":"it's cool."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1199.44,"endTime":1200.49,"body":"I do have one."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1200.73,"endTime":1202.8,"body":"One more question that I'm curious about."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1203.46,"endTime":1206.22,"body":"I know that you've asked a lot in the past"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1206.43,"endTime":1207.57,"body":"to your guests like"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1208.08,"endTime":1210.93,"body":"how do you see the future of instructional design or"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1210.96,"endTime":1212.64,"body":"how do you see instructional design changing?"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1213.15,"endTime":1216.06,"body":"I'm curious, like, what do you see as the biggest"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1216.06,"endTime":1220.11,"body":"challenges to the instructional design field in the future?"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1220.41,"endTime":1221.52,"body":"Like moving forward."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1222.09,"endTime":1222.75,"body":"Challenges?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1222.78,"endTime":1224.1,"body":"That's a great question."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1225.66,"endTime":1231.15,"body":"One of the challenges I see is the lack of"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1232.21,"endTime":1234.55,"body":"credibility in the profession."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1235.18,"endTime":1239.35,"body":"It's a particular challenge within the profession because we, for"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1239.35,"endTime":1241.84,"body":"example, don't have a certifying body."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1242.29,"endTime":1246.19,"body":"And without that certifying body, it means that people have"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1246.19,"endTime":1247.69,"body":"different definitions of what..."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1247.81,"endTime":1251.14,"body":"If you ask somebody what a goal is, an instructional"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1251.14,"endTime":1251.56,"body":"goal."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1251.86,"endTime":1255.49,"body":"You'll get four or five different answers, right, to that."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1255.76,"endTime":1260.62,"body":"So we have concepts that we all understand, but we"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1260.62,"endTime":1264.43,"body":"label them differently, and that doesn't help us as a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1264.43,"endTime":1267.55,"body":"profession to help other people understand what we do because"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1267.55,"endTime":1269.14,"body":"it makes us sound like we don't know what we're"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1269.14,"endTime":1271.07,"body":"doing, but we do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1271.09,"endTime":1273.88,"body":"We just have to figure out what we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1274.03,"endTime":1276.7,"body":"communicate with each other, what we're saying in the higher"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1276.7,"endTime":1277.21,"body":"ed space."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1277.24,"endTime":1281.08,"body":"One of the challenges we run into is cost cutting,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1281.86,"endTime":1284.53,"body":"and it often is seen as one of the things"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1284.53,"endTime":1286.51,"body":"that can be cut pretty quickly."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1287.73,"endTime":1290.43,"body":"But on the other hand, like it's, as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1290.43,"endTime":1293.07,"body":"a lot of professors were never taught how to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1293.07,"endTime":1293.49,"body":"teach."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1294.12,"endTime":1297.81,"body":"And that's why you get lots of really boring lectures"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1297.81,"endTime":1300.75,"body":"and not taught how to create better courses."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1300.75,"endTime":1304.98,"body":"And that's what instructional designers bring to the table is"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1304.98,"endTime":1307.38,"body":"how to take what, take the material you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1307.38,"endTime":1308.82,"body":"teach and how to elevate it."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1309.21,"endTime":1310.55,"body":"And I think it's really yeah."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1310.56,"endTime":1313.74,"body":"So I think the biggest challenge is one around credibility"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1313.74,"endTime":1317.31,"body":"and still around the people not knowing what instructional design"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1317.52,"endTime":1318.06,"body":"is."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1318.14,"endTime":1319.16,"body":"And I can add one more."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1319.17,"endTime":1322.38,"body":"That's a personal one, because I didn't know what instructional"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1322.38,"endTime":1326.43,"body":"design was when I graduated and when I graduated from"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1326.43,"endTime":1327.66,"body":"high school and...I only..."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1328.76,"endTime":1334.31,"body":"the only career I knew about that involved"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1334.31,"endTime":1337.91,"body":"teaching was being a K-12 teacher."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1337.94,"endTime":1340.31,"body":"And I knew that I was not a K-12 teacher."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1340.31,"endTime":1341.97,"body":"That was never going to be me."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1341.99,"endTime":1345.5,"body":"And so I didn't know what instructional design was when"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1345.5,"endTime":1349.16,"body":"I was in that state where I could have made"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1349.16,"endTime":1350.57,"body":"my first career choice."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1350.57,"endTime":1353.36,"body":"And it probably would have been... I would have gone"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1353.36,"endTime":1355.79,"body":"that way had I known that was actually an option."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1355.82,"endTime":1360.44,"body":"But I truly had no idea that that instructional design"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1360.44,"endTime":1361.35,"body":"was a career path."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1361.37,"endTime":1363.47,"body":"And so for you guys, I want to ask you"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1363.5,"endTime":1365.57,"body":"the question I ask everyone else, too."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1365.57,"endTime":1367.76,"body":"But what do you see as the future?"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1368.0,"endTime":1370.01,"body":"What is the future of instructional design?"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1370.34,"endTime":1371.69,"body":"I think we should all answer this."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1372.56,"endTime":1374.72,"body":"I don't know if this will necessarily be the future"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1374.72,"endTime":1378.26,"body":"of instructional design, but I think it would be great"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1378.26,"endTime":1382.25,"body":"if we started working towards not putting out content for"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1382.25,"endTime":1385.28,"body":"the sake of putting out content, but being mindful of"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1385.28,"endTime":1388.23,"body":"how we present it and how other people are like"},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1388.28,"endTime":1389.78,"body":"taking it in and understanding it."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1390.38,"endTime":1391.06,"body":"I like that."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1391.07,"endTime":1394.67,"body":"I think that the future one, a really cool thing"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1394.67,"endTime":1399.89,"body":"about democratizing instructional design is because is that I think"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1407.18,"body":"currently instructional designers sometimes see their job as being an"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1407.18,"endTime":1410.81,"body":"expert in a certain tool that they need that I"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1410.81,"endTime":1412.82,"body":"know how to use Storyline and I know how to"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1412.82,"endTime":1416.15,"body":"use Captivate and therefore I'm an instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1416.75,"endTime":1419.78,"body":"And I don't think that's what instructional design is at"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1419.78,"endTime":1420.05,"body":"all."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1420.92,"endTime":1424.1,"body":"I think that it is knowing how people learn and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1424.1,"endTime":1428.66,"body":"knowing the best practices and knowing how to teach to"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1428.66,"endTime":1432.2,"body":"the individual while also being able to scale lessons and"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1432.2,"endTime":1432.77,"body":"courses."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1434.77,"endTime":1437.02,"body":"With democratizing instructional design."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1437.02,"endTime":1439.63,"body":"You take a lot of the work out of...you"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1439.63,"endTime":1441.94,"body":"take a lot of the extraneous parts of being an"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1441.94,"endTime":1443.02,"body":"instructional designer."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1443.05,"endTime":1447.73,"body":"Learning tools and learning how to do this branching scenario"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1447.73,"endTime":1449.23,"body":"in this like complex way."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1449.71,"endTime":1452.98,"body":"And you allow instructional designers to focus on what their"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1452.98,"endTime":1453.94,"body":"expertise is."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1454.24,"endTime":1456.25,"body":"You allow them to focus on pedagogy."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1456.25,"endTime":1459.58,"body":"So they're like they're more of like an editor rather"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1459.58,"endTime":1461.8,"body":"than a like a rogue"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1463.0,"endTime":1466.21,"body":"painter or something like working collaboratively"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1466.21,"endTime":1469.03,"body":"they can see things from the broader view and they"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1469.03,"endTime":1470.86,"body":"and they can fine tune to the needs of the"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1470.86,"endTime":1475.57,"body":"people and really capture where their expertise is rather than"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1475.57,"endTime":1478.24,"body":"spending all this time learning extra tools."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1478.27,"endTime":1478.6,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1478.63,"endTime":1480.85,"body":"So I think the future of instructional designers is like"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1481.09,"endTime":1484.69,"body":"to elevate instructional designers in their role and in their"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1486.19,"endTime":1488.56,"body":"in the functions that they actually do on a day"},{"speaker":"Ethan","startTime":1488.56,"endTime":1489.4,"body":"to day basis."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1490.99,"endTime":1494.74,"body":"What I see as the future of instructional design, similar"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1494.74,"endTime":1498.28,"body":"to what Ethan was saying, once we remove that barrier"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1498.5,"endTime":1502.99,"body":"for our tutorial or having to learn the software, there's"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1502.99,"endTime":1506.92,"body":"things and so many people whose jobs can"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1507.01,"endTime":1510.37,"body":"be improved with a simple training so they know better"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1510.37,"endTime":1514.39,"body":"how to do their job or an assignment that's easier"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1514.39,"endTime":1517.36,"body":"and helps them learn more efficiently."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1517.36,"endTime":1521.5,"body":"Once we remove these barriers to getting into instructional"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1521.5,"endTime":1521.95,"body":"design."},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1521.95,"endTime":1525.04,"body":"I see a lot more people being up, being able"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1525.04,"endTime":1529.03,"body":"to create content and being able to experience content that's"},{"speaker":"Zach","startTime":1529.03,"endTime":1532.3,"body":"really well designed for an instructional base."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1533.11,"endTime":1537.8,"body":"Thank you folks for joining us on Demystifying Instructional Design."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1537.82,"endTime":1540.31,"body":"I really enjoyed our conversation."},{"speaker":"Christy","startTime":1540.34,"endTime":1541.69,"body":"Thank you so much for having us."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1542.5,"endTime":1545.98,"body":"You've been listening to Demystifying Instructional Design, a podcast where"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1545.98,"endTime":1548.74,"body":"I interview instructional designers about what they do."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1549.34,"endTime":1553.21,"body":"I'm Rebecca Hogue, your podcast host. Show notes are posted"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1553.21,"endTime":1556.48,"body":"as a blog post on Demystifying Instructional Design dot com."},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1556.96,"endTime":1559.33,"body":"If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe or leave a"},{"speaker":"Rebecca Hogue","startTime":1559.33,"endTime":1561.22,"body":"comment in the show notes Blog post."}]}