Joy isn't a perk. It's a business strategy.
Have you ever wondered whether work has to feel this hard? Whether the team you've built can actually function without you? Whether there's a way to lead that doesn't burn you — or your people — out?
Rich Sheridan built Menlo Innovations around one bold idea: ending human suffering in the workplace. The result is a company where joy isn't a slogan. It's how things actually get done. It's a place built on collaboration, human energy, and pride in what people create together.
Joy isn't constant happiness. It's the long arc of meaning and contribution alongside people who care. And it becomes possible the moment you stop being the center of every problem and start creating the conditions for ownership, continuous learning, and yes, joy.
You don't have to change the world. You just have to change your world.
You’ll Learn:
- The mistake most leaders make about mistakes, and why more mistakes can get you ahead faster
- Why what looks like a questionable decision from below makes sense from above
- The difference between joy and happiness, and why most leaders are chasing the wrong thing
- Why running a small experiment will move you further than creating the perfect plan
- What it really takes to build a company designed to last a hundred years
ABOUT MY GUEST:
Rich Sheridan is the co-founder, CEO, and Chief Storyteller of Menlo Innovations, a software development and consulting firm known for its people-centered culture and focus on joy in the workplace. He is the author of Joy, Inc. and Chief Joy Officer and was inducted into the Shingo Academy in 2022 for his contributions to organizational excellence.
IMPORTANT LINKS:
TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:
02:37 When work no longer feels sustainable
05:26 The moment Rich realized the problem wasn't technology
07:27 What an 8-year-old noticed about leadership
08:23 Why hero-based organizations scale through exhaustion
09:39 When caring becomes carrying
12:21 The codependency leaders develop with crises
14:09 What joy at work actually means
17:13 Working with pride and delighting customers
19:17 Why human energy is a leadership responsibility
21:00 What's the cost of not having joy?
23:28 From constant firefighting to two emergencies in 25 years
25:24 Joy vs. happiness: What's the difference?
27:02 Why joy isn't happiness every day
32:17 The phrase that keeps Menlo moving forward
34:15 The leadership lesson Rich learned from flying
40:39 Why Menlo isn't chasing exponential growth
43:02 The book that changed Rich's career
45:18 Why crisis practices work when there isn't a crisis
47:28 Why your system keeps producing the same results
49:38 The shift from carrying to creating conditions for change leadership
51:46 Why stepping in can hold people back
What is Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Transforming Culture, Developing People, and Getting Results?
Chain of Learning® is the leadership podcast for leaders and change practitioners who believe that people, not tools, are the foundation of lasting results.
If you're working to transform your organization's culture, develop leaders at every level, and build teams that are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems and innovate, this podcast is for you.
Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders break free from the Doer Trap™, where they do more and their people develop less, and build a vibrant culture where impact is exponential.
Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you:
- Develop leaders at scale, not just one at a time
- Build high-performing cultures of continuous learning, grounded in psychological safety, trust, and empowerment, that thrive and grow
- Lead culture transformation and change leadership with intention
- Strengthen coaching culture, problem-solving, and leadership development across your organization
- Move from managers who focus on outcomes to leaders who develop people, improve performance, and get results
Grounded in human-centered leadership and adult learning practices, and informed by principles of the Toyota Way, Lean thinking, and operational excellence, Chain of Learning features conversations with influential thinkers and leaders shaping the future of leadership at scale and organizational learning. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Rich Sheridan, Barry O'Reilly, Steve Spear, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp.
Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact. Share this podcast with your colleagues, fellow change leaders, and friends so we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together.
Podcast website: ChainOfLearning.com
Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com
Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
Read Katie's Shingo Publication Award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com
Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst