1 00:00:10,045 --> 00:00:13,725 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Cultivate Podcast through the Grove Church. I am 2 00:00:13,725 --> 00:00:17,230 Charlie Lofton, the lead pastor there, and really glad that you've joined us. And we 3 00:00:17,230 --> 00:00:20,610 have resident expert question asker, 4 00:00:21,150 --> 00:00:24,830 Abigail Boone. What's up? I'm great. I'm excited for this. You've 5 00:00:24,910 --> 00:00:28,644 you this is our second time. I I threatened you the 6 00:00:28,644 --> 00:00:31,685 last time we did this that if this went well, we would do it again. 7 00:00:31,685 --> 00:00:34,165 Oh, yeah. Which I was hoping it would be. And then it went well, I 8 00:00:34,165 --> 00:00:37,800 think. I haven't caused you pause yet, but Okay. It still went pretty 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,320 well. It went well. It went well. And 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,080 so we are actually gonna be wrapping up here today a series that we've 11 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,555 been doing. This, I think, will be our 8th episode. We're just kinda walking our 12 00:00:48,555 --> 00:00:52,235 way through talking about the Bible. We spent a few weeks talking about 13 00:00:52,235 --> 00:00:55,940 why we believe the Bible is authoritative, where we find truth, how 14 00:00:55,940 --> 00:00:58,740 did we get the Bible that we have, and then that's when you and I 15 00:00:58,740 --> 00:01:02,180 did a q and a on that. Yep. And then I had Melanie Alexander as 16 00:01:02,180 --> 00:01:04,200 a guest, and we Baller. Really spent. 17 00:01:11,950 --> 00:01:14,910 She's a baller. She's a baller. No. I mean, like, if she's let's if she 18 00:01:14,910 --> 00:01:18,430 is a baller, let's say it. Yes. Okay. Awesome. Melanie 19 00:01:18,430 --> 00:01:22,275 Alexander, who is a baller, was she did a 20 00:01:22,275 --> 00:01:25,415 few episodes with us. Really, we're talking about why people 21 00:01:26,195 --> 00:01:29,740 don't trust the Bible or don't wanna connect with with God through 22 00:01:29,740 --> 00:01:33,180 through the word, and how we can overcome that, and kind of 23 00:01:33,180 --> 00:01:36,700 some practical helps and tips on getting into the 24 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,825 Bible. And through those 3, 25 00:01:40,285 --> 00:01:44,045 episodes, I was imagining, again, our resident question asker, 26 00:01:44,045 --> 00:01:47,880 Abigail. I bet I bet she's gonna have, some questions 27 00:01:47,939 --> 00:01:51,380 come out of this, and so to wrap that up and probably this whole 28 00:01:51,380 --> 00:01:55,079 series on the Bible, I said, well, let's just do this one more time. 29 00:01:55,215 --> 00:01:58,735 So here we are. I'm just gonna keep doing that. I'm just sitting here, just 30 00:01:58,735 --> 00:02:02,415 waiting for whatever's coming. Amazing. Well, we're gonna do a little light, 31 00:02:02,815 --> 00:02:06,620 rapid fire. Rapid fire? What? You want short you want short you want quick answers? 32 00:02:06,620 --> 00:02:10,445 Yes. K. How many books of the Bible are there? 66. You 33 00:02:10,445 --> 00:02:14,045 know that for a fact? Yes. 39 in the Old Testament, 27 in the New 34 00:02:14,045 --> 00:02:17,485 Testament. Okay. I could sing a song and get you through most of them. Please. 35 00:02:17,485 --> 00:02:21,030 No. I can do the New Testament one for sure. I don't I don't remember 36 00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:24,330 the Old Testament song, but I could get you all the way to 37 00:02:25,430 --> 00:02:29,275 Daniel in the Old Testament, and then I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna hedge 38 00:02:29,275 --> 00:02:32,495 a little bit through the minor prophets, but then I'll I'll end in 39 00:02:32,795 --> 00:02:36,530 Malachi. I might I might miss 1 or 2 out of order That's right. In 40 00:02:36,530 --> 00:02:40,230 the old testament. There's 6 3927. The 50 United States. 41 00:02:40,450 --> 00:02:44,245 The 50 nifty United States from 13th to 42 00:02:44,245 --> 00:02:47,685 18th. Again, I can't remember the Old Testament at all, but the, the New Testament 43 00:02:47,685 --> 00:02:51,525 is Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Next in the book of Romans. I'm 44 00:02:51,525 --> 00:02:55,270 not in that elementary school. No. In elementary school? Element 45 00:02:55,430 --> 00:02:59,190 when I was in elementary school at church. Interesting. Okay. Well, that 46 00:02:59,190 --> 00:03:02,805 was a tangent. How 47 00:03:02,805 --> 00:03:06,504 many letters did Paul write? Woah. 13? 48 00:03:07,364 --> 00:03:10,635 Oh, really? I didn't fact check any of them. 13. Is gonna trust you. 49 00:03:10,885 --> 00:03:13,670 Question mark. Okay. We'll check that later. 50 00:03:15,490 --> 00:03:16,709 Your quick count. 51 00:03:19,410 --> 00:03:23,175 No. You're getting it wrong? 13. 52 00:03:23,235 --> 00:03:27,015 Okay. What's the last book in the old testament? 53 00:03:27,475 --> 00:03:30,455 I already said that. You didn't? I did. 54 00:03:32,230 --> 00:03:35,989 Malachi. Malachi. Malachi. It's exactly what I was gonna say. Mhmm. I'm 55 00:03:35,989 --> 00:03:39,349 sure. What's your least favorite book of the 56 00:03:39,349 --> 00:03:39,849 Bible? 57 00:03:44,845 --> 00:03:48,145 For different reasons, I would say 58 00:03:49,819 --> 00:03:52,560 Deuteronomy, Lamentations, or Revelation. 59 00:03:53,580 --> 00:03:57,019 Oh, interesting. Deuteronomy is almost a repeat of 60 00:03:57,019 --> 00:04:00,755 Leviticus. True. And so it's just like I read this already. Yes. 61 00:04:00,755 --> 00:04:04,435 I get historically why at that moment, Moses wanted 62 00:04:04,435 --> 00:04:08,260 to retell them all of that. I get it. But if you're 63 00:04:08,379 --> 00:04:11,739 especially if you're reading through the Bible, it's different. It's 64 00:04:11,739 --> 00:04:15,394 difficult. It honestly seems like it's you're reading it 4 times 65 00:04:15,394 --> 00:04:18,935 because I don't know why, but everything in the old testament is like, 66 00:04:19,315 --> 00:04:23,130 hey. Don't go to the market this day. Like I said, 67 00:04:23,130 --> 00:04:26,490 don't go to the market this day. Oh, I get you. And then you read 68 00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:30,115 the next book and you read it 2 more times. And then Lamentations 69 00:04:30,415 --> 00:04:33,294 is just depressing. I mean, it's just I mean, I get it. He was sad, 70 00:04:33,294 --> 00:04:37,020 and I'm glad, I guess, that the Bible has these kinds of things, 71 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:40,860 just like real laments. Right. But, I mean, I wouldn't say I again, not 72 00:04:40,860 --> 00:04:44,634 talking about its quality. You didn't say, what are the worst? Ones 73 00:04:44,634 --> 00:04:48,155 you don't enjoy. Yeah. And then revelation's just weird. And we think we know what 74 00:04:48,155 --> 00:04:51,615 it means, but we don't. I like things that are just a lot 75 00:04:51,675 --> 00:04:55,480 simpler to understand, even if they have a lot of depth in their 76 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,420 meaning. But, Revel, I I 77 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,740 Okay. What's your favorite book of the Bible? 78 00:05:03,785 --> 00:05:07,625 Wow. I I I'm 79 00:05:07,625 --> 00:05:11,430 sorry. I'm sorry that I have to give you 3 again. I would say That's 80 00:05:11,430 --> 00:05:15,030 right. John, Romans, and Galatians. The gospel of 81 00:05:15,030 --> 00:05:18,470 John, I think, is just it's it's unique in the 4 82 00:05:18,470 --> 00:05:22,255 gospels and is really geared towards people who are who don't understand 83 00:05:22,255 --> 00:05:26,095 Jesus and just you get to see the way he encounters people who 84 00:05:26,095 --> 00:05:29,375 are are who are not religious and the way that he loves and interacts with 85 00:05:29,375 --> 00:05:32,720 them with that which I think is great. It's also really good to ask people 86 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,400 who are new to Christianity or considering Christianity. It's a 87 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,620 great book for them. Romans is just a deep 88 00:05:40,195 --> 00:05:43,955 theological workbook, which I think is incredible. Mhmm. And Galatians, I 89 00:05:43,955 --> 00:05:47,315 think, its theme of really helping us understand the difference 90 00:05:47,315 --> 00:05:50,960 between, the freedom that I have because of 91 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,660 what Jesus did mixed with, but I do have a responsibility 92 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,615 to obey God's commandments. I really think that is a foundational 93 00:05:58,835 --> 00:06:02,675 issue that most of us struggle with that I think Galatians speaks to very, 94 00:06:02,675 --> 00:06:06,520 very clearly and is 95 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,200 just personally has been especially over the last few years, has been very 96 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,960 personally impactful to me. Yeah. Paul is an 97 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,505 insane writer. Like, if I were to write a letter, 98 00:06:17,885 --> 00:06:21,645 nothing like his. Yeah. Yeah. Why why say something in 2 99 00:06:21,645 --> 00:06:25,440 words, 1 20 will do? Right. And then, you know what, he loves 100 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,040 more than anything is a good run on sentence. Yep. But then, also, it's 101 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,720 like this kinda like Marvel where you're like, woah. I didn't expect that to get 102 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,385 connected. It ties it together. Yeah. It 103 00:06:36,385 --> 00:06:39,445 ties it all together. Yeah. Like, it just never write like that. 104 00:06:41,039 --> 00:06:44,880 I wasn't we may not have time for you to answer this, but food for 105 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,639 thought. What would be a letter sent to our church 106 00:06:48,639 --> 00:06:52,425 that you would just be like, I have to read this in front of everyone? 107 00:06:53,685 --> 00:06:56,725 What like, which one of those which one of No. No. No. You get a 108 00:06:56,725 --> 00:07:00,310 letter today, like the letters in the Bible. So so some 109 00:07:00,310 --> 00:07:03,930 apostle somewhere sends me a letter. Letter to the Grove, the Groveians. 110 00:07:04,150 --> 00:07:07,670 The Grove. You're asking me what the what the content of that is? That 111 00:07:07,670 --> 00:07:10,765 you'd say, I've gotta just read this in front of the whole entire story. I 112 00:07:10,765 --> 00:07:13,885 mean, if it was from an apostle, I would regardless of what it was, I 113 00:07:13,885 --> 00:07:16,605 think I mean, if I if I felt like God dropped it out some way 114 00:07:16,605 --> 00:07:19,780 through an apostle writing it, I don't think it would matter what it said. Right. 115 00:07:19,780 --> 00:07:23,220 I would feel the need to read it. Right. But if just some 116 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:26,420 randar sent me a letter, which they do, they'll send me I get I get 117 00:07:26,420 --> 00:07:30,194 emails all the time. So, like I'm not trying to read them. The Godfather 118 00:07:30,495 --> 00:07:34,194 sent you a letter. Marlon Brando? Yeah. 119 00:07:34,895 --> 00:07:38,610 And then you're like, alright, church. I've got the letter 120 00:07:38,610 --> 00:07:42,289 for everyone. Yeah. I'm I don't think I'm playing 121 00:07:42,370 --> 00:07:45,030 no. I'm out of my mouth. Alright. Well, 122 00:07:46,014 --> 00:07:49,294 turns out you know the Bible. It's a good thing that you know it and 123 00:07:49,294 --> 00:07:52,975 are leading us in that way. We'll hop into the questions, though. 124 00:07:52,975 --> 00:07:56,650 Okay. So y'all covered a ton, you and Melanie 125 00:07:56,650 --> 00:08:00,330 did, from practical all the way to kinda just, like, her 126 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:04,175 experience and what other people's experience with the Bible is. So these questions kind 127 00:08:04,175 --> 00:08:06,435 of bounce around in a couple of different categories. 128 00:08:08,495 --> 00:08:11,315 So one thing that I have 129 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,840 friends who have asked this question, my 130 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,360 people in my family have asked it. The 131 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,055 text that we're reading is super old. Okay. 132 00:08:23,355 --> 00:08:27,035 And like, I just read a book a couple of weeks ago. That was 133 00:08:27,035 --> 00:08:30,440 the 7th edition because things have been updated in our 134 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,960 world. But you're not gonna find a 50th edition of the 135 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,605 Bible. Right. I gotcha. So how do you even trust a book that's 136 00:08:37,605 --> 00:08:40,505 not been amended or even added in 137 00:08:42,005 --> 00:08:45,605 secular ideas that we have now? You know? Right. I 138 00:08:45,605 --> 00:08:49,400 mean, the first thing that pops into mind, a few things that all at once 139 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,280 there, the first one that pops into my mind is kind of, like, updated by 140 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,105 whom for for what reason. And I think when most people talk like 141 00:08:56,105 --> 00:08:59,545 that, they think about it in terms of updating it for the 142 00:08:59,545 --> 00:09:03,225 culture Mhmm. As if, hey. Culture has evolved and 143 00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:07,070 then changed in such and such a way where 144 00:09:07,690 --> 00:09:10,970 we need to kind of update some of these kind of this some of this 145 00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:14,635 outdated thinking. Right. The reality of it is the Bible from the 146 00:09:14,635 --> 00:09:18,394 very beginning was meant to be countercultural. The 147 00:09:18,795 --> 00:09:22,500 we the the Bible can get criticism, but it is completely unfair, 148 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:26,020 and I would say not particularly thoughtful to say that it was 149 00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:29,000 affirming kind of the traditional beliefs of its time. 150 00:09:29,380 --> 00:09:33,065 Right. You don't need to write commands to tell people to 151 00:09:33,065 --> 00:09:36,585 do things that they're already doing Right. Or to believe things they already 152 00:09:36,585 --> 00:09:40,400 believe. And so there is there is especially 153 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,180 in the New Testament, these letters that Paul was writing were very countercultural, 154 00:09:44,975 --> 00:09:47,615 and the things that Moses was saying in the Old Testament, that you guys have 155 00:09:47,615 --> 00:09:51,295 been living as slaves in in Egypt for 400 years. You've 156 00:09:51,295 --> 00:09:55,100 probably forgotten who God is and who you are 157 00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:58,940 as his people. Let me remind you of all of these things, and we're 158 00:09:58,940 --> 00:10:02,524 going to create something that is very different than the world around 159 00:10:02,524 --> 00:10:06,365 us on purpose. And so it was 160 00:10:06,524 --> 00:10:09,805 the Bible was always meant to be countercultural and to kind of to be a 161 00:10:09,805 --> 00:10:13,080 way we're gonna live above these kind of cultural pulls 162 00:10:13,940 --> 00:10:17,220 that our culture can do to us. And so I do I I I don't 163 00:10:17,220 --> 00:10:20,665 even under like, if the Bible were to be updated, 164 00:10:21,445 --> 00:10:25,204 it certainly shouldn't be in that regard, and the other thing that I 165 00:10:25,204 --> 00:10:29,030 think is, is this a script? Is 166 00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:32,710 this a is this a book? Is this a word from 167 00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:36,415 God about the way life is and 168 00:10:36,415 --> 00:10:39,855 the way morality should be and kind of the kind of 169 00:10:39,855 --> 00:10:43,615 people that God has called us to be. Right. If 170 00:10:43,615 --> 00:10:47,460 that's true, then it doesn't need to be updated. Right. 171 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:51,140 It's still a place. Thing that it needs is I need to understand it well 172 00:10:51,140 --> 00:10:54,965 enough to understand how these are principles apply to this context. Right. So 173 00:10:54,965 --> 00:10:58,505 I'm not I'm not updating the principles to fit them into my context. 174 00:10:58,805 --> 00:11:02,440 I'm understanding the principles and applying them to my context. Right. 175 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,580 And so in that sense, the Bible doesn't need to be 176 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,820 updated. It just needs to be understood and applied 177 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,925 in a new context. I like that. 178 00:11:13,465 --> 00:11:17,065 Especially, you know, we've talked some with our staff 179 00:11:17,065 --> 00:11:20,365 and, even just leaders of the church about 180 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,880 the bible isn't necessarily gonna affirm one 181 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,640 side of one type of identity that you want it to. Right. 182 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,305 It's gonna be more of the middle, countercultural, and 183 00:11:32,305 --> 00:11:36,145 more so character traits. Yeah. I mean, it's like we got a 184 00:11:36,145 --> 00:11:39,459 culture we got cultures. I mean, we got, you know, red versus blue in America 185 00:11:39,459 --> 00:11:43,220 right now and these kind of these very different pull pulls that we 186 00:11:43,220 --> 00:11:47,005 have, and we we desperately want God to be on our 187 00:11:47,005 --> 00:11:50,605 side versus their side when God is on his side, and he's asking us to 188 00:11:50,605 --> 00:11:54,285 live very differently, whether you're talking about the way that Paul talks about 189 00:11:54,285 --> 00:11:58,080 freedom or the way that Jesus talks about the kingdom of God, or the 190 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,680 way that Moses and the authors talk about, you know, living as the chosen 191 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,425 people called out by God, all of those things rise 192 00:12:05,425 --> 00:12:08,945 above what would be considered 2 193 00:12:08,945 --> 00:12:12,610 very natural poles that that they're 194 00:12:12,610 --> 00:12:16,370 fighting. So they Paul's battling between a a a a 195 00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:19,430 rule based Jewish culture Right. And a 196 00:12:19,745 --> 00:12:23,185 hedonistic gentile culture, Roman culture, 197 00:12:23,185 --> 00:12:26,945 hedonistic. What is right is determined by what 198 00:12:26,945 --> 00:12:30,779 feels good. K. Right? So he's not affirming either of 199 00:12:30,779 --> 00:12:33,980 those two things. He's not saying, hey. We should live in a very rule based 200 00:12:33,980 --> 00:12:37,545 religious system, and we should not just do whatever feels good. 201 00:12:37,704 --> 00:12:41,545 He's calling us to something very different. And so we look back 202 00:12:41,545 --> 00:12:45,385 on it, and because it feels more restrictive than what we want it to 203 00:12:45,385 --> 00:12:47,720 be, he's like, oh, he's just affirming 204 00:12:48,900 --> 00:12:52,260 their kind of rules based culture, and I was like, no. No. No. 205 00:12:52,260 --> 00:12:55,985 No. He his strongest words that he had to 206 00:12:55,985 --> 00:12:59,665 say, I think, were against the people who were falling into rules based 207 00:12:59,665 --> 00:13:03,400 culture in Galatians. I mean, he does say some things about people who were 208 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,100 experimenting a little bit more with what I would say is hedonism in Corinthians, 209 00:13:07,714 --> 00:13:11,095 but I would say his harshest words, Galatians, Colossians, 210 00:13:11,795 --> 00:13:15,154 are more towards people who are viewing Jesus and a 211 00:13:15,154 --> 00:13:18,980 relationship with him through a lens of rules. And so he 212 00:13:18,980 --> 00:13:22,600 was this same pull that we have between these two ideas 213 00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:26,875 is something that I believe existed back then. Right. And, again, 214 00:13:26,875 --> 00:13:30,714 Paul's not talking about splitting the difference between those two, but living very differently than 215 00:13:30,714 --> 00:13:34,555 both of them. Right. So not just picking a side that's actually countercultural no 216 00:13:34,555 --> 00:13:38,399 matter what culture Right. The Bible is applied to. Yep. Yeah. 217 00:13:38,779 --> 00:13:42,139 Well, pivot us just a tiny bit. Something you just said made me think about 218 00:13:42,139 --> 00:13:45,975 it. Melanie was talking about how the whole entire Bible is one 219 00:13:45,975 --> 00:13:49,815 cohesive story. Right. Even though they feel kind of different 220 00:13:49,815 --> 00:13:53,240 along the way. So kind of 221 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,860 recap for me what you would say is the main theme of the Bible. 222 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,920 And as you're reading, are you supposed to be searching for 223 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,695 that main theme everywhere you're looking? Because I read the old testament 224 00:14:04,695 --> 00:14:08,075 and new testament, and it seems different stories. 225 00:14:09,389 --> 00:14:13,149 Right. So it's a little bit to me I can't remember if I 226 00:14:13,149 --> 00:14:15,889 said this with Melanie or not, but it's a little bit like, 227 00:14:16,829 --> 00:14:20,455 the gospels is a little bit like the way that Star Wars 228 00:14:20,455 --> 00:14:24,215 was. You know, episode 4 came out first. Oh, I've never 229 00:14:24,215 --> 00:14:27,820 seen Star Wars. So episode 4 came out first, and then they made prequels. Right? 230 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:31,360 And so it's almost like even though, obviously, these came out in chronological 231 00:14:31,580 --> 00:14:35,360 order, that Jesus is kinda the main character of this thing. 232 00:14:35,965 --> 00:14:39,645 And, like, you you start there, and you read about Jesus and and His 233 00:14:39,645 --> 00:14:43,425 transformational life, His transformational death, and then how His resurrection 234 00:14:43,485 --> 00:14:47,070 kind of changed the course of human history. And then you read the old 235 00:14:47,070 --> 00:14:50,910 testament to see how we how we got there, and then you 236 00:14:50,910 --> 00:14:54,675 read the new testament to see okay, well, now based that this 237 00:14:54,675 --> 00:14:58,195 has happened, how should we live? Right. So if I were to give an 238 00:14:58,195 --> 00:15:01,875 overarching picture to the story, and there are people who are way more eloquent in 239 00:15:01,875 --> 00:15:05,660 this than I am, I would say that God has 240 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,640 created a world, a universe, and a people to be 241 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,305 in relationship with, and these people 242 00:15:13,365 --> 00:15:17,205 rebelled against him, and the 243 00:15:17,205 --> 00:15:20,900 story is the story of God bringing 244 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:24,740 those people back to him. Right. So they there it is a story of 245 00:15:24,740 --> 00:15:28,405 rebellion and redemption, and so you see 246 00:15:28,405 --> 00:15:31,745 you see cycles of that all throughout the Old Testament, 247 00:15:32,444 --> 00:15:35,964 ultimately building towards the ultimate moment of redemption and 248 00:15:35,964 --> 00:15:39,550 reconciliation that happens with Jesus. Right. And then you 249 00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:42,930 see in Revelation, which I've already said is kind of confusing, 250 00:15:43,470 --> 00:15:47,125 kind of how the story supposedly is gonna end. Right. But, again, it is 251 00:15:47,125 --> 00:15:50,884 probably the least understood book of the Bible, but it kinda gets us 252 00:15:50,884 --> 00:15:53,785 from God created to the rebellion 253 00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:57,870 to all of these different ways that God is 254 00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:01,550 redeeming and and bringing them back and trying to reconcile 255 00:16:01,550 --> 00:16:05,145 them that culminates ultimately what Jesus did. Yeah. 256 00:16:06,085 --> 00:16:09,205 So I'm gonna hop us down the question list. This may be kind of out 257 00:16:09,205 --> 00:16:12,950 of order. So Jesus is the one that is 258 00:16:12,950 --> 00:16:16,790 the reconciliation, the Right. Culmination of what was happening in 259 00:16:16,790 --> 00:16:20,524 the Old Testament. Correct me if I'm wrong. But in 260 00:16:20,524 --> 00:16:24,305 the 1st book of John, they describe him as the Word. 261 00:16:24,524 --> 00:16:27,745 Okay. And I think of the Word being the Bible. 262 00:16:28,660 --> 00:16:30,760 And it says that he was there in the beginning. 263 00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:35,700 What? Okay. So the what the what is being 264 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:39,425 translated there in John chapter 1, in the beginning was a word, 265 00:16:39,425 --> 00:16:42,945 and the word was with God, and the word was God. Right. The Greek word 266 00:16:42,945 --> 00:16:46,560 there is logos, l o g o s, or I 267 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,100 mean, obviously Logos. Yeah. Logos. 268 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,860 And that is a that is a Greek philosophical 269 00:16:56,445 --> 00:17:00,205 concept Mhmm. Essentially of the 270 00:17:00,205 --> 00:17:03,905 eternal wisdom in the universe. Mhmm. 271 00:17:04,730 --> 00:17:08,409 And so what he is doing is taking a a a 272 00:17:08,409 --> 00:17:12,109 secular philosophical principle that existed 273 00:17:12,490 --> 00:17:16,244 in that culture. Again, the gospel of John is a very evangelistic 274 00:17:16,545 --> 00:17:20,385 book. Okay. It is written to people who don't know Jesus to help them understand 275 00:17:20,385 --> 00:17:24,000 who Jesus is, and primarily a non Jewish audience, a 276 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,520 non Jewish, non Christian audience. Okay. So I'm gonna take 277 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,065 this philosophical concept that you already 278 00:17:31,125 --> 00:17:34,885 have and tell you that That would have already had it. That this 279 00:17:34,885 --> 00:17:38,650 idea that there is this eternal 280 00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:42,490 wisdom that is both that is both part 281 00:17:42,550 --> 00:17:45,290 of God, but different than God, 282 00:17:46,155 --> 00:17:49,915 this idea that you have is actually was 283 00:17:49,915 --> 00:17:53,500 manifested in the person of Jesus Christ. Okay. And 284 00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:57,020 so it kind of helps us understand kind of the 285 00:17:57,020 --> 00:18:00,860 theology of who Jesus is, of he is separate 286 00:18:00,860 --> 00:18:04,655 from God the Father, but he is equal to God as a God, but there's 287 00:18:04,655 --> 00:18:08,275 just one God. Right. And you put all of that together, 288 00:18:08,815 --> 00:18:11,955 and that fries our brains when we think about it. 289 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,240 This was his way of helping them introduce them to who Jesus 290 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:20,000 is with a concept that they already had a measure of 291 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,745 familiarity with. So he's using it in a different way than what 292 00:18:23,745 --> 00:18:27,585 they're using it, but it is it is it is a it's a it's 293 00:18:27,585 --> 00:18:31,350 a starting ground Mhmm. For them to understand what ultimately 294 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:35,250 is a very difficult concept, which is, how do I reconcile the fact 295 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:38,530 that Jesus is God, the father is God, but there's just one God? And Jesus 296 00:18:38,530 --> 00:18:42,265 was a person, but Jesus is also God. Well, 297 00:18:42,265 --> 00:18:45,785 it's he he's he's he's very similar to this idea of 298 00:18:45,785 --> 00:18:49,440 logos, and if you understand 299 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,280 that and imagine that Logos became a 300 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,500 person. Okay. And if Logos becomes a person, 301 00:18:57,125 --> 00:19:00,825 that's who Jesus is. Okay. So not necessarily the Bible. 302 00:19:01,685 --> 00:19:05,320 Right. Right. And so we we we use the 303 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:09,160 word as kind of slang shorthand to refer to the Bible. Right. 304 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,280 Abigail, you need to get be be getting in the word. Gotta get gotta get 305 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,654 in the word. Right. Right. Right. Right. And so you know, and then you'll see 306 00:19:15,654 --> 00:19:19,495 other things, like in Hebrews where it talks about the word of God as living 307 00:19:19,495 --> 00:19:23,115 and active and sharper than any 2 edged source. Question. It seems 308 00:19:23,174 --> 00:19:26,890 like 90% sure 309 00:19:26,890 --> 00:19:30,190 that in that sense, he is talking about written words. Okay. 310 00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:34,195 However, if you wanna go down a rabbit hole, you 311 00:19:34,195 --> 00:19:37,795 can see that there is, in fact, some debate about whether or not that 312 00:19:37,795 --> 00:19:41,555 Hebrews 412 Is about the Bible. Is talking about the Bible or is making 313 00:19:41,555 --> 00:19:45,220 a reference to Jesus. It seems unlikely to me that it is referencing 314 00:19:45,220 --> 00:19:48,360 Jesus because that is 2 completely different audiences, 315 00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:52,595 and the book of Hebrews was written to a primarily religious 316 00:19:52,835 --> 00:19:55,735 Jewish audience Okay. Who would not have been 317 00:19:56,515 --> 00:20:00,135 as familiar and into that concept. So if you think of the Bible 318 00:20:00,690 --> 00:20:04,450 as having one author, God Mhmm. Then you cross reference word, 319 00:20:04,450 --> 00:20:07,250 and you get John 1 and Hebrews 4. It's like, oh, maybe it's the same 320 00:20:07,250 --> 00:20:11,065 thing. But if you think about it as two very different 321 00:20:11,065 --> 00:20:14,585 authors writing to 2 very different audiences, it seems 322 00:20:14,585 --> 00:20:18,240 unlikely that there's those are connected the same way. Which is to me, this is 323 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,720 kind of a side note. I mean, I don't think this is even maybe it's 324 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,080 in one of your questions or whatever. We wanna be really careful with cross 325 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,855 references. Okay. So I'm trying to I look at this phrase. I don't know what 326 00:20:27,855 --> 00:20:31,554 it means. I'm gonna find other places where the Bible uses that phrase. 327 00:20:31,615 --> 00:20:35,320 Mhmm. The further you get away from it's okay. 328 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,159 It's now a different author Right. Different audience, or 329 00:20:39,159 --> 00:20:42,975 completely different time period, you just need to be a little more careful. So 330 00:20:42,975 --> 00:20:46,254 I look at a phrase that Paul uses. Like, I wonder what this means. I 331 00:20:46,254 --> 00:20:49,955 wanna find maybe other uses where Paul used it. Right. 332 00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:54,230 But if I take the same phrase and, like, oh, this is very similar to 333 00:20:54,230 --> 00:20:57,990 this phrase that Solomon used in Ecclesiastes different. Just be careful 334 00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:01,785 Right. Unless Paul is specifically referencing the Old Testament 335 00:21:01,785 --> 00:21:05,545 passage. The further you get away time wise, audience wise, and author 336 00:21:05,545 --> 00:21:07,940 wise, the more 337 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,800 a a cross reference can trip you up. That's interesting. And it's better to find 338 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,575 the meaning of the phrase that you're struggling with Within that context. In the context 339 00:21:16,735 --> 00:21:20,335 in which it is used rather than the context in which it's used in 340 00:21:20,335 --> 00:21:24,095 another part of the body. Right. So you're putting 341 00:21:24,095 --> 00:21:27,519 my mind in so many different directions. Answer this one quickly. 342 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:31,120 K. Do you need to so seeming I might have 343 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,340 understood this incorrectly, but your the word 344 00:21:35,665 --> 00:21:39,105 becoming flesh, that audience would have been familiar with 345 00:21:39,105 --> 00:21:42,240 the analogy or whatever that he was painting. Right. 346 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,640 Do you think that we need to familiar ourselves with Eastern culture and 347 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,700 all of that stuff to understand what the Bible's communicating? 348 00:21:52,255 --> 00:21:55,315 I think I wanna give a yes, no answer to that. Okay. 349 00:21:56,495 --> 00:22:00,310 I believe that because of who God 350 00:22:00,310 --> 00:22:03,750 is and because of his ultimate big picture desire to 351 00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:07,495 communicate truth with his people, I think that someone 352 00:22:07,875 --> 00:22:11,634 with a humble heart and a desire to learn can pick up 353 00:22:11,634 --> 00:22:15,475 the bible and learn and grow and understand its 354 00:22:15,475 --> 00:22:19,270 basic principles. Right. So I don't I don't I don't think that anyone needs 355 00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:22,730 to feel any real prerequisites to 356 00:22:23,674 --> 00:22:27,115 allowing God to speak to you from the scripture. And if you feel some 357 00:22:27,115 --> 00:22:30,875 intimidation about that, there's great places to start. Like I've mentioned, the gospel 358 00:22:30,875 --> 00:22:34,470 of John for 1, think the Psalms for another are some that 359 00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:38,149 are very user friendly. Well but for a different type of person, I mean, they're 360 00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:41,450 just they're just people pouring out their heart to God. Right. 361 00:22:41,965 --> 00:22:45,164 These these are just poems where people are pouring out their heart to God. And 362 00:22:45,164 --> 00:22:48,924 if you under if you understand and like poetry Mhmm. And you wanna 363 00:22:48,924 --> 00:22:49,310 learn 364 00:22:58,125 --> 00:23:01,825 There's some very user friendly parts to the Bible. 365 00:23:02,365 --> 00:23:05,725 And so I don't think that you need to have these these all of 366 00:23:05,725 --> 00:23:09,560 this off book knowledge about culture and things 367 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,320 to be able to understand it. But the flip side of it is, not only 368 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,865 is I think that it has it is it can be a very user friendly 369 00:23:17,645 --> 00:23:21,165 book, there's also a depth and richness to it that I 370 00:23:21,165 --> 00:23:24,650 think is almost 371 00:23:24,650 --> 00:23:28,170 infinite. And the more understanding we 372 00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:31,390 have of of the author, the audience, and the culture, 373 00:23:32,065 --> 00:23:35,505 the deeper and richer and more fuller our understanding can be. 374 00:23:35,505 --> 00:23:39,264 Mhmm. And so this it's almost like the I mean, this is 375 00:23:39,264 --> 00:23:43,010 this I didn't make this up, but people talk about a pool. Like, a like 376 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:46,610 a pool has a a a kiddie section and a deep 377 00:23:46,610 --> 00:23:50,165 section and train all sorts of things where there's, like, every everybody 378 00:23:50,305 --> 00:23:54,145 everybody can swim here. And is are you having more fun in 379 00:23:54,145 --> 00:23:57,925 the deep end? Yes. Yeah. But you got you but 380 00:23:57,925 --> 00:24:01,045 you need you need you need to get there. Right. But that's not the same 381 00:24:01,045 --> 00:24:04,165 as to say that the pool is not friendly or that you can't enjoy it 382 00:24:04,165 --> 00:24:07,445 until you can learn how to swim in the deep end, but the Bible definitely 383 00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:10,565 has a deep end. Right. And so I don't want the presence of a deep 384 00:24:10,565 --> 00:24:14,220 end to keep people from playing in the shallow part, but 385 00:24:14,380 --> 00:24:17,580 it's also I don't think it's I think it's important to not stay in the 386 00:24:17,580 --> 00:24:21,260 shallow part because some of the most exciting things you can do in a pool 387 00:24:21,260 --> 00:24:25,105 are in the are in the deep end. Yeah. So 388 00:24:25,645 --> 00:24:29,245 I'll put a pin on what I was about to ask you. There's 389 00:24:29,245 --> 00:24:33,085 actually someone recently that told me that there feels like there 390 00:24:33,085 --> 00:24:36,690 can be a hopelessness of, if I'm not a theologian, 391 00:24:37,630 --> 00:24:41,445 I'm never actually gonna understand what the Bible is teaching. And Melanie did 392 00:24:41,445 --> 00:24:45,285 kind of explain that there's tools out there to do this and that, but my 393 00:24:45,285 --> 00:24:49,020 fear even kind of pops up of the heart is deceitful 394 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,840 and you can't trust yourself. So I at least gotta get a 395 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,655 theology background or I have to have a theologian and a book sitting right next 396 00:24:56,655 --> 00:25:00,035 to me so I can understand this. But then you and Melanie 397 00:25:00,175 --> 00:25:04,010 encouraged someone on their own to engage the Bible in their own 398 00:25:04,010 --> 00:25:07,610 study. There's a balance there. I mean, it 399 00:25:07,769 --> 00:25:11,450 if we believe that the Bible is the, quote, word of God, that we believe 400 00:25:11,450 --> 00:25:14,225 that it is inspired by God and is God's 401 00:25:15,265 --> 00:25:19,025 he's given it to us to help us know and understand who 402 00:25:19,025 --> 00:25:22,580 he is, it should be treated with care. You don't want to 403 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,520 read something and say, well, I read this, and I now now I know what 404 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,120 God said. God said and, like, oh, oh. Right. Unless you're quoting him, I wouldn't 405 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,915 I would be I'd be really careful. And so I I think 406 00:25:32,915 --> 00:25:36,375 there is there is there is reason to say 407 00:25:36,595 --> 00:25:39,175 that I want to be careful. Right. 408 00:25:40,380 --> 00:25:43,919 But there's a difference between being careful in my conclusions 409 00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:48,080 and feeling intimidated by connecting with it. 410 00:25:48,139 --> 00:25:51,885 Right. And so that is why, again, I think the 411 00:25:51,885 --> 00:25:55,565 greatest balance is is that we think about, at least in 412 00:25:55,565 --> 00:25:59,290 part, that my study and reading and understanding of the Bible is 413 00:25:59,290 --> 00:26:02,910 something that I do in community. Mhmm. Because, 414 00:26:03,755 --> 00:26:07,535 you know, we are we are learning from one another. And then also, 415 00:26:07,995 --> 00:26:11,434 even the community in which I'm reading and studying the Bible sits 416 00:26:11,434 --> 00:26:15,230 itself as a part of the larger community 417 00:26:16,010 --> 00:26:19,850 of Christians worldwide that sits in a that sits as 418 00:26:19,850 --> 00:26:22,885 a part of the Christian community that began 419 00:26:24,705 --> 00:26:28,465 2000 years ago Right. After Jesus came back to life. Right? Right. 420 00:26:28,465 --> 00:26:31,980 And so we don't we don't where even when we're reading the Bible by 421 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:35,740 ourselves, we are not reading it completely in isolation, and 422 00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:39,565 the dangerous thing would be to do it in isolation, where I'm going to 423 00:26:39,565 --> 00:26:43,024 do it separate from any of people that I'm in community with, 424 00:26:43,164 --> 00:26:46,625 separate from the church that I'm a part of, separate from the capital c church, 425 00:26:47,050 --> 00:26:50,590 separate from, historically, what Christians have believed. 426 00:26:50,810 --> 00:26:54,170 Right. So it does seem 427 00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:57,835 like, historically, and this is more so my history nerd 428 00:26:57,835 --> 00:27:01,535 coming out, but more, like, public readings 429 00:27:01,675 --> 00:27:05,230 or reading the bible literally only in 430 00:27:05,230 --> 00:27:08,509 community was the way that it would exist for a long time. There wasn't a 431 00:27:08,509 --> 00:27:12,164 bible at home that you could read. And even once 432 00:27:12,164 --> 00:27:15,365 they got access to it, there would just be times where you would read it 433 00:27:15,365 --> 00:27:19,205 as a family, or you would it's more of a community read thing. And it 434 00:27:19,205 --> 00:27:23,020 seems like now it's more of a isolated activity. Yeah. One 435 00:27:23,020 --> 00:27:26,540 of the things that I think that turn would turn American Christianity on its head 436 00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:29,820 is if we realize that almost every command that you read in the Bible is 437 00:27:29,820 --> 00:27:32,784 a plural command. So if I were to say, 438 00:27:33,725 --> 00:27:36,465 hey. Let me tell you what you should do. You should 439 00:27:37,325 --> 00:27:41,059 blank. If we realize that almost every time that the 440 00:27:41,059 --> 00:27:44,740 word you is used, it is a plural you. Y'all. Right. It's if 441 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,705 yeah. If you trans if you took all the yous and replace them with y'alls, 442 00:27:49,325 --> 00:27:52,845 we probably would live very differently. Right. But we live in a 443 00:27:52,845 --> 00:27:56,430 very individualistic society right now. Yeah. And 444 00:27:56,430 --> 00:28:00,190 so then we then we struggle with that. But it it 445 00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:03,925 you know, we we we a little bit to use something that Melanie said 446 00:28:03,925 --> 00:28:07,525 in one of the previous episodes. There's a baby in the bath water deal where 447 00:28:07,525 --> 00:28:10,965 it's like it's a really great thing that now you have personal access to be 448 00:28:10,965 --> 00:28:14,650 able to read and study and understand the the scripture on your 449 00:28:14,650 --> 00:28:18,190 own, but to throw out with that the essential 450 00:28:18,250 --> 00:28:21,835 nature of that being something that we we do 451 00:28:21,835 --> 00:28:25,455 together. Right. Because you, on your worst day, 452 00:28:25,835 --> 00:28:28,900 are gonna have some really bad ideas. Oh, 100%. 453 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,360 And so when we are alone with our own bad 454 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:37,095 ideas for an extended period of time, or we only surround ourselves with 455 00:28:37,095 --> 00:28:40,615 people who or be the kind of people who are gonna buy 456 00:28:40,615 --> 00:28:44,210 into our bad ideas Right. I mean, even a group of 3 or 4 people 457 00:28:44,210 --> 00:28:47,650 can come up with some really bad ideas. Cults didn't Or 2 or 3. 458 00:28:47,650 --> 00:28:51,190 Cults didn't birth out of nowhere. They didn't come out of the ground. 459 00:28:51,655 --> 00:28:54,955 Right? It is it is grounded in people getting together 460 00:28:55,495 --> 00:28:59,150 and separating, isolating themselves from the 461 00:28:59,150 --> 00:29:02,830 bigger picture of what God is Right. God's people have done 462 00:29:02,830 --> 00:29:06,625 and believed for centuries. Right. I 463 00:29:06,625 --> 00:29:09,985 think that would be rad like, that'd be radical change, but it would be cool 464 00:29:09,985 --> 00:29:13,425 to see more of a communal Right. Culture or community based culture. 465 00:29:13,425 --> 00:29:17,100 And it's it's happened even more in the last 5 years where church 466 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,480 attendance becomes a little more optional Right. 467 00:29:20,860 --> 00:29:23,945 Because I don't need that. You just don't need that. What do you mean? What 468 00:29:24,005 --> 00:29:26,985 do you mean you don't need that? What do you mean you don't need podcast. 469 00:29:27,285 --> 00:29:29,685 Well, yeah. What do you mean? I I I read the Bible some. I listen 470 00:29:29,685 --> 00:29:33,260 to podcasts. Like, well, I I need I need I I need to be do 471 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:37,340 I'm I'm I'm commanded to do this with people. Right. The command 472 00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:41,100 to worship is a plural command. Okay. Then you get the verb 473 00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:44,615 to worship, Mhmm. And it is in a verb in a command form, and it 474 00:29:44,615 --> 00:29:48,295 is a plural command. Right. Y'all need to worship. Yeah. Not 475 00:29:48,295 --> 00:29:51,720 you need to worship. Y'all need to worship. It's great that you've got a 476 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,559 Spotify playlist, and you're listening to worship music. You should totally do that. And 477 00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:58,934 y'all need to worship. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 478 00:29:58,934 --> 00:30:01,914 That is challenging for the American culture, for sure. 479 00:30:02,695 --> 00:30:06,370 So let's 480 00:30:06,370 --> 00:30:10,210 talk a little bit about the harm that's 481 00:30:10,210 --> 00:30:13,924 been done with the Bible. I know that's kind of a broad stroke, 482 00:30:13,924 --> 00:30:17,684 and we could go into a 1000000 different directions of how the Bible has 483 00:30:17,684 --> 00:30:21,304 been used to harm people in different ways. I mean, it essentially 484 00:30:21,365 --> 00:30:25,120 seems like someone who's desiring some sort of control. Right. 485 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,340 And they distort it for that end for themselves. 486 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,655 So a lot of people probably could be in that position. And 487 00:30:32,655 --> 00:30:35,795 the last thing they would ever wanna do is to trust the Bible again. 488 00:30:36,335 --> 00:30:40,100 So, how would you say someone starts to work through that? Why should they 489 00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,860 trust the Bible again? Because that's the one thing that hurt them. So 490 00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:47,685 why should they trust it again? And how do they go back through the 491 00:30:47,685 --> 00:30:51,445 process of reengaging God and trusting what it says for 492 00:30:51,445 --> 00:30:54,665 them? Honestly, when when people make that sort of argument, 493 00:30:55,060 --> 00:30:58,500 it it lands better with me when they say, how can I learn to trust 494 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,340 the church again? Okay. You know? Because I felt this. I heard 495 00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:05,645 this. They said this. They did this. It's hard for me to trust the church 496 00:31:05,645 --> 00:31:09,325 again. Mhmm. Because I on a on a on a level, I'm like, because 497 00:31:09,325 --> 00:31:13,000 you're right. I mean, the church the church did do that. I can't distance 498 00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:16,580 myself and say, no. No. No. That wasn't our church. That was their church. 499 00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:20,424 Right. We are more connected than we than we want to be. 500 00:31:20,424 --> 00:31:23,784 Right. When a when a when a when someone comes to our 501 00:31:23,784 --> 00:31:27,549 church, having come from another church in another city that did 502 00:31:27,549 --> 00:31:31,070 some harm to them We're so old. I don't get to say, well, that's not 503 00:31:31,070 --> 00:31:34,669 us. Right. I can say we're trying to not be like that, but that was 504 00:31:34,669 --> 00:31:38,304 us. We we we did that. Right. K? 505 00:31:38,304 --> 00:31:42,145 So that I that argument resonates with me. When we throw 506 00:31:42,145 --> 00:31:45,870 the Bible into that, and I'm like, man, what the Bible do? K. What 507 00:31:45,870 --> 00:31:49,710 the Bible do? I mean, this is this made me people may not 508 00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:53,485 like the way they sound. The Bible was just sitting there. It's not not true. 509 00:31:53,485 --> 00:31:56,005 I mean, it was I mean, it was it was just it was just it 510 00:31:56,005 --> 00:31:59,365 was there, and God's truth was 511 00:31:59,365 --> 00:32:02,780 there, and somebody chose to ignore it and distort 512 00:32:02,780 --> 00:32:06,540 it and say false and hurtful things. Right. That 513 00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:10,285 is not that is not the Bible's fault. Someone used to 514 00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:14,005 be is in fact a also a victim in that crime. I know 515 00:32:14,005 --> 00:32:16,659 I know the Bible is an inanimate object, so I'm not trying to We can 516 00:32:16,659 --> 00:32:20,419 personify it. Or we're just yeah. Because it's personification. Right? It's it the Bible's a 517 00:32:20,419 --> 00:32:23,700 the Bible's a victim. It 518 00:32:24,179 --> 00:32:27,885 you know, God didn't want his Bible to be used that way. Right. 519 00:32:27,885 --> 00:32:31,105 He didn't ask for it, but it happened. 520 00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:35,860 So it is not the Bible that did damage. It is the 521 00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:39,400 church, maybe a particular church, maybe a particular person, 522 00:32:39,539 --> 00:32:43,265 maybe a particular approach. And so, really, 523 00:32:44,924 --> 00:32:48,145 as with most of these things, arrogance, 524 00:32:48,684 --> 00:32:52,110 pride, control, those are the 525 00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:55,809 enemies. Right. And they are still the enemies, 526 00:32:56,270 --> 00:32:59,885 and so we want to be careful in the small c churches 527 00:32:59,885 --> 00:33:03,725 that we attend and the the leaders that we put ourselves under 528 00:33:03,725 --> 00:33:07,460 that we're not we don't have peep we're not we're not with people who 529 00:33:07,460 --> 00:33:10,760 kind of have this kind of reckless authoritarian 530 00:33:11,059 --> 00:33:14,820 approach to it. Right. I would be I would say lesson learned, I'm gonna 531 00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:18,424 avoid authoritarian type 532 00:33:18,804 --> 00:33:22,565 churches with a lot of arrogance and pride. Yes. You you should avoid 533 00:33:22,565 --> 00:33:26,050 that, but the that's not that's not the same as the 534 00:33:26,050 --> 00:33:29,490 Bible. Yeah. So I would I would just say, like and, again, just 535 00:33:29,490 --> 00:33:33,225 because bad people quoted the Bible doesn't mean the 536 00:33:33,225 --> 00:33:36,985 Bible Is bad. Is bad. So you just need to reengage with 537 00:33:36,985 --> 00:33:40,345 it and learn it. Right. And kind of doing that teasing out process 538 00:33:40,345 --> 00:33:43,350 of that was the Bible, not 539 00:33:44,150 --> 00:33:47,350 or the Bible actually says this. The church said that. It can actually be a 540 00:33:47,350 --> 00:33:49,850 very healing healing journey to 541 00:33:51,175 --> 00:33:54,875 come across some of these passages and verses that were used 542 00:33:55,575 --> 00:33:59,335 and to see them in their appropriate context and what was meant 543 00:33:59,335 --> 00:34:03,160 when they were written and be like, woah. Woah. That can be 544 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,280 very clear. Attest to that. Yeah. I mean, just like that, that is that is 545 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,655 that is beautiful. Right. And then you have that 546 00:34:09,655 --> 00:34:13,495 experience enough, and I think it can be part of the healing process 547 00:34:13,495 --> 00:34:17,120 of, I'm no longer, when I'm reading the Bible, I'm no 548 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,880 longer hearing it in that guy's voice. Right. Right. I'm hearing 549 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,455 the Holy Spirit's voice. Yeah. Well, we already 550 00:34:24,455 --> 00:34:28,074 kinda mentioned personification. I feel like the Bible does 551 00:34:28,614 --> 00:34:32,395 personify the Bible. Okay. They it it talks about itself 552 00:34:32,929 --> 00:34:36,690 in ways that kind of can seem superhuman and 553 00:34:36,690 --> 00:34:40,530 confusing. Or it's the Bible is sharper than a double edged sword. It's living and 554 00:34:40,530 --> 00:34:44,284 active. Or it has the power to renew your 555 00:34:44,284 --> 00:34:47,885 mind. Or even the way in Psalm 556 00:34:47,885 --> 00:34:51,350 119, it talks about, like, how does a young man keep his way 557 00:34:51,350 --> 00:34:55,190 pure by knowing your word and all that type of 558 00:34:55,190 --> 00:34:58,890 stuff. And then even I think it's in Deuteronomy where it talks about 559 00:34:59,145 --> 00:35:02,985 putting a signpost on your head and knowing it and putting it on 560 00:35:02,985 --> 00:35:06,825 your hand. Like, that's a lot of really, like you would never talk about 561 00:35:06,825 --> 00:35:10,500 just any book like that. You know? I would never just I'm 562 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:14,319 gonna disagree with that. Okay. Because I think people do talk about books like that 563 00:35:14,319 --> 00:35:18,125 all the time. Really? You ever met a Harry Potter person? Okay. Well, the 564 00:35:18,205 --> 00:35:21,825 I'm no. I'm I'm serious. But do you The way that they talk about 565 00:35:22,685 --> 00:35:26,285 do they Do they meditate on it? Asking if if Harry 566 00:35:26,285 --> 00:35:30,049 Potter people put words from the book onto their body. Okay. 567 00:35:30,049 --> 00:35:32,289 They do. They do. Are you asking is that is that what you're saying? Lord 568 00:35:32,289 --> 00:35:36,105 of the Rings people? Sure. Narnia people? Yes. I mean, there 569 00:35:36,105 --> 00:35:39,625 are I mean, now we got a new wave of people reading the Dune books. 570 00:35:39,625 --> 00:35:43,385 I mean, there's like of of course. I mean, I think that 571 00:35:43,385 --> 00:35:46,349 if we But do they think the book is living inactive? 572 00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:52,685 What I'm saying is to believe that a book 573 00:35:53,005 --> 00:35:56,685 has power to change you. Right. That's not a 574 00:35:56,685 --> 00:35:59,345 crazy thought. That is not a crazy thought. Yeah. 575 00:36:01,410 --> 00:36:04,549 Because in the same way that music 576 00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:08,905 music has a power. Right. But what what 577 00:36:08,905 --> 00:36:12,185 is the what is the power? What is the power that a book has? What 578 00:36:12,185 --> 00:36:15,725 is the power that a word has? What is the power specifically that, 579 00:36:16,740 --> 00:36:20,260 God's word has? And, again, just even in that euphemism that we use to 580 00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:24,085 describe the Bible, God's word, what we're saying is is that 581 00:36:24,085 --> 00:36:27,925 these are things that God says. Right. And so if it 582 00:36:27,925 --> 00:36:31,390 is a truth that comes from the architect of the universe, then, of 583 00:36:31,390 --> 00:36:34,910 course, the understanding and embracing of that truth is gonna have 584 00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:38,670 incredible power. Right. In the same way, even a mediocre self 585 00:36:38,670 --> 00:36:42,194 help book can or a really good leadership book can Right. 586 00:36:42,474 --> 00:36:46,234 Or a really inspiring fictional story can. Like Harry Potter. 587 00:36:46,234 --> 00:36:50,039 Like Harry Potter. Right? And so you have you have you have so if 588 00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:52,940 you take these things that just an inspirational 589 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,105 story, true or not, or inspirational 590 00:36:57,885 --> 00:37:01,025 thoughts about leadership or self care or whatever, 591 00:37:01,645 --> 00:37:05,450 when properly applied, they have the power to do something 592 00:37:05,450 --> 00:37:09,150 great. If you add to that, that actually the source of these ideas 593 00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:13,085 is the God of the universe, you would expect there to be a multiplying 594 00:37:13,225 --> 00:37:16,765 impact to that. Right. So a powerful word has I mean, 595 00:37:16,825 --> 00:37:20,205 words have the ability to do incredible things. 596 00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,960 We have the ability at any given time, and James talks about this, 597 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:26,920 to destroy people with our with our words. 598 00:37:28,035 --> 00:37:31,875 Right? The words have incredible power. You collect them all together in a 599 00:37:31,875 --> 00:37:35,635 really big book, they have enormous power Right. Especially if it's well 600 00:37:35,635 --> 00:37:39,400 written, especially if it has the power and voice of 601 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,240 God behind it. Right. And so I don't think it is 602 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,575 too crazy a concept to think 603 00:37:47,275 --> 00:37:50,815 about a book having a lot of power and authority. 604 00:37:51,275 --> 00:37:54,910 Right. Whether or not you believe that the Bible is 605 00:37:54,910 --> 00:37:58,670 God sourced or not Sure. It is true that words have 606 00:37:58,670 --> 00:38:02,210 that level of power. You put God's sourcing behind it, 607 00:38:02,375 --> 00:38:05,974 and now its potential is off the charts Right. For what what it has the 608 00:38:05,974 --> 00:38:09,815 power to do in your life. I I mean, even is it 2nd Timothy that 609 00:38:09,815 --> 00:38:12,810 says the Bible is unbound? Or is that something else? 610 00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:17,590 Or the power of salvation? Yes. 2nd Timothy is the one that says that, you 611 00:38:17,590 --> 00:38:21,205 know, that to teach, rebuke, correct for training in 612 00:38:21,205 --> 00:38:24,965 righteousness, that you may be thoroughly equipped for everything. That whole 613 00:38:24,965 --> 00:38:27,785 sermon series. That no matter what good thing 614 00:38:29,730 --> 00:38:33,570 you may come across in your life that you need to do, the Bible 615 00:38:33,570 --> 00:38:37,285 has the potential to equip you to do that. Right. Like, I can 616 00:38:37,285 --> 00:38:40,724 always do right. I have the power to always do 617 00:38:40,724 --> 00:38:44,565 right if I allow the scriptures to speak 618 00:38:44,565 --> 00:38:48,350 to me. And, again, the Bible doesn't specifically direct every potential 619 00:38:48,410 --> 00:38:52,010 situation you could ever find yourself in. Right. It doesn't say anything 620 00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:55,234 about the Internet. Right? It doesn't say anything about 621 00:38:55,454 --> 00:38:59,135 dating life. It doesn't say anything about that, but the principles that are involved 622 00:38:59,135 --> 00:39:02,960 there have the ability to equip you Mhmm. To make 623 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,660 the right decisions and be the right person in any context. Right. 624 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,095 So oh, wait. I could just ask you so many more 625 00:39:11,095 --> 00:39:14,855 questions. I'm sure we're getting close on time. Let's 626 00:39:14,855 --> 00:39:18,560 talk a little bit about translations. Okay. As you and 627 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,400 Melanie mentioned that you both grew up on some version that I've never 628 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,780 heard of before. Correct. But now there's ESV, NIV, 629 00:39:26,505 --> 00:39:30,345 which, as you know, and I'd be willing to tell anyone in the 630 00:39:30,345 --> 00:39:33,725 public, I got kind of beef with. You got beef with? 631 00:39:34,025 --> 00:39:37,830 ESV and NIV. Okay. And as I've said to you, it sounds like I'm reading 632 00:39:37,830 --> 00:39:41,670 Shakespeare. And let me tell you NIV feels like Shakespeare? I did not 633 00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:45,435 pass with any flying colors in English in high school. Neither 634 00:39:45,435 --> 00:39:48,795 did I. Well, I passed. I had good grades, but I hated it. I didn't 635 00:39:48,795 --> 00:39:52,475 like it. I couldn't do it. So to me, it just sounds super 636 00:39:52,475 --> 00:39:56,309 confusing. And I can acknowledge that Paul's a great writer, 637 00:39:56,450 --> 00:40:00,210 but I'm still I don't know why you would structure a sentence like that 638 00:40:00,210 --> 00:40:03,994 to get me to this point to understand this thing. So I love 639 00:40:03,994 --> 00:40:06,974 the message. I love the passage train passion translation. 640 00:40:07,755 --> 00:40:11,115 It gets me the same idea. And so why do 641 00:40:11,115 --> 00:40:14,880 you suggest certain translations when it's all just 642 00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,320 the same story? We need to be 643 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,220 careful. We wanna be a little precise by our 644 00:40:22,305 --> 00:40:25,365 definition of the word translation. Okay. Okay? 645 00:40:25,985 --> 00:40:29,205 If I take something in one language 646 00:40:30,010 --> 00:40:33,310 and translate it into another language, I am 647 00:40:33,530 --> 00:40:37,210 either taking the words or the phrases and say, 648 00:40:37,210 --> 00:40:40,835 here's this word. What is the equivalent word in English? Right. Here's 649 00:40:40,835 --> 00:40:44,675 this phrase. What is the equivalent phrase in English? That is 650 00:40:44,675 --> 00:40:48,120 what a translation is. What was the Bible 651 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,720 originally translated to? Okay. That's a different question. Let's let's 652 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,540 let's let's finish let's finish let's finish this thought. 653 00:40:56,474 --> 00:41:00,075 You you get something more like the message, and it's really 654 00:41:00,075 --> 00:41:03,675 not it's really closer to what what would you call a 655 00:41:03,675 --> 00:41:07,120 commentary. Okay. I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna take these 656 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,740 ideas and put them in even more common words. 657 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,835 And so it's almost like when you read something like The Message, 658 00:41:15,295 --> 00:41:19,135 you're getting not only the translation into English, but you're also just kind of 659 00:41:19,135 --> 00:41:22,595 getting his summary of what he thinks it means. Mhmm. 660 00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:26,980 So the more direct a translation is, the 661 00:41:26,980 --> 00:41:30,740 more complicated the wording might be, but the more accurate it is 662 00:41:30,740 --> 00:41:34,405 to what the author meant when he wrote it. Okay. So 663 00:41:34,405 --> 00:41:38,244 when you read the message, you're not simply learning how to trust 664 00:41:38,244 --> 00:41:42,080 the Bible, but you're also figuring out how much can I trust Eugene Peterson 665 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,860 as a person, and it is great to love Eugene Peterson? 666 00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:49,600 I don't have any particular beef with Eugene Peterson and 667 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,045 his approach. He and I don't necessarily agree on everything, 668 00:41:53,505 --> 00:41:57,025 but I'm not trying to beef with him. But it 669 00:41:57,025 --> 00:41:59,990 is it is the equivalent of 670 00:42:00,690 --> 00:42:04,530 listening to a sermon about the Bible closer to listening to a sermon about 671 00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:08,070 the Bible than reading the Bible per se. Okay. 672 00:42:08,485 --> 00:42:09,225 And so, 673 00:42:12,085 --> 00:42:15,845 again, that's it's not a bad thing. The the word that I was looking 674 00:42:15,845 --> 00:42:18,790 for earlier and I couldn't find is paraphrase. It's more of a paraphrase. Right. Okay. 675 00:42:18,790 --> 00:42:22,630 It's different than a translation. Yeah. And so I think it's important to 676 00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:26,345 study translations. We can 677 00:42:26,345 --> 00:42:30,184 read a paraphrase, but we study translations. And you're saying 678 00:42:30,184 --> 00:42:32,996 that because that gets us as close to basically reading Paul's original letter. Well, it's 679 00:42:32,996 --> 00:42:33,880 it's it's it's a group of really intelligent people who 680 00:42:41,135 --> 00:42:44,895 and putting those words and phrases into the best possible English 681 00:42:44,895 --> 00:42:48,735 words and phrases so that we can really understand what Paul meant 682 00:42:48,735 --> 00:42:52,400 because I don't read Greek. Right. And so are 683 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,160 NIV and ESV the only ones in that category? No. There are other almost 684 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,985 everything that you're gonna find apart from things like, thing things 685 00:42:59,985 --> 00:43:03,585 like the messengers, thing called the what was it? The good 686 00:43:03,585 --> 00:43:06,865 news bible growing up. I mean, there's there's sorts of things that they would say. 687 00:43:06,865 --> 00:43:10,369 They'll say that they're paraphrases. Okay. But most of them are most of these, you 688 00:43:10,369 --> 00:43:14,050 know, NAS, King James, New King 689 00:43:14,050 --> 00:43:16,950 James, all of these things are going to be 690 00:43:19,635 --> 00:43:23,395 our translations. And you can look and you can discover kind of what 691 00:43:23,395 --> 00:43:27,155 the principles were that the different groups of people use to decide how they 692 00:43:27,155 --> 00:43:30,860 were gonna translate. So somebody who was gonna look at each Greek word 693 00:43:30,860 --> 00:43:34,320 and try to make an equivalent English word, 694 00:43:35,580 --> 00:43:39,195 that's gonna be more precise, but also more cumbersome. 695 00:43:39,495 --> 00:43:41,655 But it's like, hey. I'm not gonna look at a word. I'm gonna look at 696 00:43:41,655 --> 00:43:45,255 a phrase that's gonna be less precise and more user friendly. Mhmm. So you're 697 00:43:45,255 --> 00:43:48,870 gonna get everything from the 698 00:43:48,930 --> 00:43:52,690 the King James to New King James to NAS to 699 00:43:52,690 --> 00:43:56,450 ESV to NIV to NLT, and there's just gonna there's 700 00:43:56,450 --> 00:43:59,905 a there's a spectrum there from how precise the 701 00:43:59,905 --> 00:44:03,265 translation is, but then there also comes a point where I'm not 702 00:44:03,265 --> 00:44:06,720 translating word for word or phrase for phrase or sentence by 703 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:10,560 sentence. I'm really just paraphrasing. And at the at the point at 704 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,935 which we cross the line, I'm not saying that there's anything dangerous about that. Right. 705 00:44:14,015 --> 00:44:17,635 But it's just it's just different and should just be treated with a little more, 706 00:44:17,935 --> 00:44:21,775 hey. I'm I'm reading what this dude thinks the Bible says Right. Not 707 00:44:21,775 --> 00:44:25,420 what the text said when it was written as close as we can 708 00:44:25,420 --> 00:44:28,320 understand it in my language. Right. Right. 709 00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:32,885 I'm getting used to NIV. Okay. We're growing in it. Perfect. It's 710 00:44:32,885 --> 00:44:36,025 just a little bit confusing. Yep. I get it. So 711 00:44:36,965 --> 00:44:40,680 what are some of your favorite resources that you would say 712 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,440 someone could look into when they're trying to study the Bible? Maybe for 713 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,080 the first time or they've been doing it for a while, but these are just 714 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,845 some go to things for you to understand when you're con or find answers 715 00:44:50,845 --> 00:44:52,625 when you're confused about what you're reading. 716 00:44:56,910 --> 00:45:00,750 Man, I just just read it. I just know it. No. Just 717 00:45:00,750 --> 00:45:04,365 read it. Just read it. Just read it with people that you trust. Yeah. 718 00:45:05,325 --> 00:45:09,025 And, there there are plenty of resources out there 719 00:45:09,085 --> 00:45:12,845 in, you know, commentaries and these kinds of things. And I 720 00:45:12,925 --> 00:45:16,380 like, I'm I'm hesitant kind of, like, to recommend one of them. Mhmm. I mean, 721 00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:19,520 I'll get you get you an you get the NIV study bible, 722 00:45:20,220 --> 00:45:23,095 it'll be it'll be fine with the things that they're saying there will be will 723 00:45:23,095 --> 00:45:26,075 be really good, and you and you and you'll learn plenty. 724 00:45:26,855 --> 00:45:30,600 But, also, don't I hesitate to recommend things like that because, again, 725 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,280 I don't want you to believe that there's a gap between you and 726 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,035 God's word. I like that. I don't want you to believe that. Yeah. 727 00:45:38,115 --> 00:45:41,714 But, ultimately, I get into this, and I'm kind of piddling around in the 728 00:45:41,714 --> 00:45:45,315 shallow end. It's like, I don't think that I'm understanding this well. 729 00:45:45,315 --> 00:45:49,119 Right. Then make sure that you're doing this with some people, and, collectively, we 730 00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:52,799 can. And then let's talk about commentaries or study 731 00:45:52,799 --> 00:45:56,415 Bibles or those kinds of things. And so I'm I mean, 732 00:45:56,415 --> 00:46:00,015 I know that's not the answer you asked for, but No. I appreciate that, 733 00:46:00,015 --> 00:46:03,750 though. What what what would I recommend? Pass. Pass. 734 00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:07,430 Okay. I like that. I mean, it's definitely helpful to think 735 00:46:07,430 --> 00:46:11,190 through if you're just now starting, maybe your next step 736 00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:14,845 is how can I find a few people to read the Bible with? Right. And 737 00:46:14,845 --> 00:46:18,445 to start with the most user friendly ones And, yeah, and you said John. That 738 00:46:18,445 --> 00:46:21,329 was one of my questions. Questions. Start start with the gospel of John. It's very 739 00:46:21,329 --> 00:46:23,890 it's very straightforward. It's written simply for first 740 00:46:25,250 --> 00:46:28,530 yep. And then I would read then read the other gospels, read the book of 741 00:46:28,530 --> 00:46:32,355 Acts, and then slowly try to work your way through some of 742 00:46:32,355 --> 00:46:35,815 Paul's letters. And, again, I think you will get 743 00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:40,680 a a an initial understanding of that. That'll be really helpful, and I'm 744 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,960 I'm I'm still a part of a church. I am I'm in a in a 745 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,215 small group with some other people where we're studying it together 746 00:46:48,155 --> 00:46:52,000 and stay connected to God's community. You don't you you, 747 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,780 yes, stay connected with God's community. You have the the ability to 748 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:59,945 read and understand the Bible yourself. Right. 749 00:47:01,145 --> 00:47:03,805 So any other thoughts on why the Bible is awesome? 750 00:47:05,545 --> 00:47:09,350 I mean, the I'll I just love that 751 00:47:09,350 --> 00:47:13,110 word from 2nd Timothy 3. Mhmm. It's a made up word that Paul made up 752 00:47:13,110 --> 00:47:16,150 made up a maybe, like, the first person that decided, what should we call this 753 00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:19,865 place where we wash our cars? Right. Right. We call it car wash. I 754 00:47:19,865 --> 00:47:23,545 mean, somebody made up that word, and his word, theo nistos, is a made up 755 00:47:23,545 --> 00:47:26,285 word, God breathed, and just really 756 00:47:26,970 --> 00:47:30,590 strongly suggests both the source of where it came from, 757 00:47:30,970 --> 00:47:34,750 and also you just can't help but make a mental, emotional 758 00:47:34,810 --> 00:47:38,405 connection to what God did in Adam to 759 00:47:38,405 --> 00:47:42,085 give life to him, that it's not it's sourced from him, and the 760 00:47:42,085 --> 00:47:45,750 breath of God carries life. Yeah. And so this comes 761 00:47:45,750 --> 00:47:49,590 from God, and it has therefore, it has life in 762 00:47:49,590 --> 00:47:53,345 it. That's where I can find life. God put his 763 00:47:53,345 --> 00:47:57,045 life into it, and so I can find life from God 764 00:47:57,105 --> 00:48:00,950 through it. I 765 00:48:00,950 --> 00:48:04,650 I just really think that if we overcome some of these stereotypes 766 00:48:04,789 --> 00:48:08,329 and misconceptions that we have from the past about what God's word is, 767 00:48:08,685 --> 00:48:12,445 I think we will be pleasantly surprised what we'll 768 00:48:12,445 --> 00:48:15,744 see God do. Yeah. And the way Mel Melanie, 769 00:48:16,445 --> 00:48:19,850 as we learned, talks about it with it truly 770 00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:23,750 transforming her and which made me think about the personification of the bible, that 771 00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:27,165 it can sound kind of crazy, but you see evidence in people's lives that once 772 00:48:27,165 --> 00:48:30,545 they started to intake the Bible, there's actually noticeable 773 00:48:30,845 --> 00:48:34,605 Yeah. Growth and change and healing that happens 774 00:48:34,605 --> 00:48:38,270 just from reading an ancient text. Well, you killed it 775 00:48:38,270 --> 00:48:41,950 again. Oh, thanks. Good job. Those great questions. I know you probably got 50 more 776 00:48:41,950 --> 00:48:45,125 on there. We did uncover that. I know we didn't. Hey, and I hope you 777 00:48:45,125 --> 00:48:48,965 enjoyed it too. I hope you enjoyed, Abigail last time just kinda talking 778 00:48:48,965 --> 00:48:52,690 and reflecting, and I really do hope that you will spend some time, get the 779 00:48:52,690 --> 00:48:55,990 courage, and spend some time reading and studying God's word for yourself. 780 00:48:56,290 --> 00:48:59,270 And as always, thanks for joining us with the Cultivate podcast. 781 00:49:00,085 --> 00:49:03,045 Would love to connect with you on a Sunday morning. If you're not connected, you 782 00:49:03,045 --> 00:49:05,465 can find everything about us at the grovechurch.org/connect. 783 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,640 And I'm Charlie Lofton, lead pastor here. Abigail Boone, 784 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,180 thank you so much for joining us.