Cailin: Welcome everyone to Faith and Purpose podcast.
Each episode of this podcast contains the personal testimony of an ordinary person
transformed by an extraordinary God.
My name is Kaylin and I'm here to introduce this podcast
for my friend Jesse Duke.
Jesse is a husband, father, author, life recovery guide, lay counselor,
and small group leader, but his most important role is disciple.
As a disciple of Jesus.
Jesse created this podcast to help other believers tell their faith stories.
We'll be hearing the personal testimonies of all sorts of people
who have one thing in common, Jesus has transformed their lives.
Jesus used parables because he created us to learn best through story.
And as we listen to how God has worked in others lives, we find encouragement
and inspiration for our own faith walk.
Whether you are already a believer or just a curious seeker, we believe that
as you listen to these stories, you will be encouraged on your own faith journey.
We are sure that God can speak to you through one of these episodes and that you
will see that our Heavenly Father truly works all things together for our good.
When we simply love and trust him.
If you are currently going through a trial, we believe that you will come
to see that your troubles, heartbreaks, and failures are not gravestones, but
stepping stones into new life in Christ.
Here's Jesse with today's guest.
Hey, this is Jesse.
Before we get into today's story.
I need to.
Do a mayor Copa.
In preparing for the interview.
I relied on an old bio that I found online thinking I was being clever
to do my pre-interview homework.
And without asking Mr.
Marshall first, I use that old information.
But to his great credit and he didn't ask for a retake.
But used my mistake to praise God.
As you hear.
And of course I appreciated this response and it made the rest of
his story even more meaningful.
So I learned another lesson about how to do a podcast interview.
Thank you Grayson.
So here it is.
Yeah.
Jesse: Well, welcome everybody to Faith and Purpose podcast.
Today, I have a new friend, Grayson Marshall, who's here to tell his story.
Grayson is a husband and a father of three girls and one boy.
And he's got a lot more going on than that.
And I'm going to let him tell his story.
So, uh, I'm really looking forward to this.
How are you doing today, Grayson?
I'm good, Jesse.
I'm good.
I want to make sure that we stay integrous and, and truthful.
I was married for 20 years.
I am no longer married.
I've been divorced five years, but I have three beautiful daughters.
One son and four grandkids.
So, life in that space was an amazing, amazing time.
I appreciate the time as a father.
those things will never leave me when it comes down to it.
The essence of my kids are who they are.
what I went through made me better.
so I look at that all as a positive for me.
It's made my new relationship one of the most amazing ones ever.
So I'm grateful for everything that went on because it really allows
me to embrace my new relationship with Evie in an amazing way.
So, I guess that's in light of what we're talking about here, how
things change when you meet God.
my, you know, my story goes back to, I was born and raised in Washington, D.
C.
And, um, uh, my mother was a principal, my dad was a teacher.
Uh, so I grew up in an educational family.
My family was all about improvement, being the best version of yourself.
That was what I was raised in.
I have a younger sister who is the head of online education
for the Department of Defense.
So everybody in my family was academically inclined.
Um, that was a part of our DNA.
And I think that, um, my parents did the best job they could
do to give me a blueprint.
on how to live life.
Um, I have a unique story, I think, because I was born
and raised Roman Catholic.
So, that was the first introduction to any sort of, and I'll use
the term, religion that I had.
So, because my mother was devout, every aspect of Catholicism,
I engaged in, you know.
So, I was an altar boy.
I went through my first penance, my holy communion, all these things,
and they were ritualistic things that I just accepted as my life.
So, it was never about relationship, it was always about a ritual,
it was always about a routine.
And that's what I limited religion to, that's what I thought it was.
And, it was introduced to me as a, it was a qualifying
prerequisite to do anything else.
Right, so if I wanted to play sports, I had to go to church.
I wanted to go to the Redskins game on Sunday, I go to church, you
know, that was always something.
So God being first in my life, or put it this way, church being first
in my life was what I grew up in.
I didn't really, I didn't really know God, I knew church.
And so I did church, I did church the way that I was supposed to do church.
Again, I believe that for me personally, church was just a formality.
It wasn't an, it wasn't an interesting search to become, it was just
something I had to go through.
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: But, you know, so I did that, but I did know that my gifting and talent
came from God, and as a young guy, I was very, very athletically inclined.
So I played everything growing up.
Um, there was nothing I didn't play growing up.
I swam, I ran, I played basketball, I played football, I played
baseball, I did everything.
and because I excelled in sports, I was able to obtain a, um, a private
school education, my mom and dad made the sacrifice because they always gave
me what they believe was the upper hand to being the best version of myself.
Uh, I got to, uh, I ended up going to a boys military school from seventh
to 12th grade, all boys military.
And, uh, it was a choice that I made.
And I made the choice because I always wanted to be different.
Growing up in Washington, D.
C., sports is something that is, uh, very well appreciated,
established, and looked at.
And there were schools that were known for success in basketball.
And everybody wanted to go there.
Well, I decided I wanted to go to the rival.
And so I said, I don't want to go where you are.
I want to go to the other side.
And I convinced a group of my guys to go to the other school with me.
And we ended up becoming their rival and literally winning more than we
lost against the number one team.
So I think,
Grayson: at the military school?
Jesse: yeah, it was military school.
Right.
Grayson: Okay.
Is that, and that was in D.
C.?
Jesse: Absolutely.
Uh, St.
John's, which is now COED, but it was an all boy, 2607 military road.
Grayson: Okay.
Jesse: We actually wore full regalia.
We were in, um, full cadet uniforms all day long.
And, um, we actually did inspection every morning, um, before class.
And then after school on Tuesdays and Thursdays, we actually had drills.
We had to march and practice formation and do those kinds of things.
So we did that all growing up.
So I combined that.
And the reason people didn't want to go there is because they didn't
want to wear the military uniform.
So I decided, okay, now I didn't have a military background.
My dad was in the army, but that was never an influence on my life.
I just was going to be different.
I just like doing what everybody else wasn't doing.
That was just me.
And so, um, I ended up getting, um, good enough in basketball to, uh,
be offered a scholarship to play at the collegiate level, and that
was done at Clemson university.
So I was able to go to Clemson in South Carolina, not real, not
realizing at the time that my.
Um, familial heritage was reared in South Carolina.
So, um, my grandfather, my paternal grandfather was from
South Carolina and my maternal grandmother was from South Carolina.
I didn't know that at the time, um, but figured that out.
So, obviously, I was going back to my roots and I didn't know that.
I ended up going to Clemson and it was a crazy set of
circumstances that got me there.
Because I had actually Committed to University of Richmond, which was
90 minutes away from Washington, D.
C.
Thought I'd be close to home, my parents would come see me all the time, play,
I thought it was the best scenario.
And I ended up, um, literally auditioning for Clemson without knowing it.
And the audition went so well, because we were playing that number
one team I was telling you about, the audition went so well that they
offered me a scholarship the next day.
Grayson: Wow.
Jesse: And I said, I flew to Clemson, the Albany scholarship, and I took it.
I verbally committed to it because that was the best basketball
conference in the world.
I said, I'm going to play against the best.
I come back home.
I'm excited about it.
And about a couple weeks later, the coach that recruited me took another job at
the University of Miami, and he wanted me to go to Miami and sit out a year.
And I said, I'm not sitting out for anybody.
I said, so I went back and started over again.
Richmond still wanted me.
So I'm headed back to Richmond.
Well, the next day, Clemson hires Cliff Ellis as a new coach.
And that year, Cliff, the year before Cliff had been, um.
He had been coaching in the Sunbelt of South Alabama.
My uncle, who was an excellent basketball player at the time, was a nationally
evaluated referees at the time.
And that year he was working in the Sunbelt.
So Cliff Ellis found out that Jim Hollow was my mother's brother.
And Cliff calls my uncle and says, I need to talk to your nephew because
all the other kids that had verbally committed left and went to Miami.
I was the only one left.
And so he calls me up and he says, you need to meet with this guy.
And I said, Uncle Jim, I'll meet with him, but I'm not going to Clemson
because I'd already gone through that.
I don't want to do that again.
So, but because of you, I'll meet with him.
And the next day, Cliff Ellis was at my house.
And he talked, we talked for about two hours and next thing I know is right
back at Clemson and it's the best thing, the best thing that ever happened to me.
And I say that, Jesse, because even when I didn't know God,
I can look back and see God.
Even when I didn't really understand what I know now, I can actually look
back over my life and see where he kept me, how he kept me, how he guided my
steps when I didn't know he was doing it.
Um, I can see in my life where I was walking by faith as a practice
a long time ago because I didn't know what I was getting into.
I was going to a school that the coach didn't even know me.
He had never, he had never personally seen me play.
He was going on the fact that I had verbally committed and went
out and recruited some of the kids.
So when I got to Clemson, there were other kids he had recruited.
And at first I said to myself, I made a mistake, but I was always raised
to follow through in your commitment.
And for me, or for what I was reared in, school was not about sports.
It was about getting your degree.
So I said, all I want to do is get my degree.
That was my whole purpose for doing it.
Grayson: Yeah, I read somewhere that your goal was to not have your
parents pay for your education.
You wanted to get it on your own, and that was awesome.
Jesse: Yeah, that was my, my, my whole purpose for getting a
scholarship was because so they wouldn't have to pay for college.
That was my whole reason for doing it.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: And when I got that, I was kind of, okay, I did this.
So then I have my own little plan about how I was going to, because
I wanted to play, but I have my own little plan about getting it done.
Cause this is the best conference in the world.
The guy who is starting, I've been starting for two years.
So I figured I'm going to go compete.
I'll compete for some time.
And then by the time I'm a junior, it's my game.
Cause that's how it happened in high school.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: By the time I was a junior, it was my game.
So I said, okay, I'll just do this all over again.
Well, God had a different plan.
He accelerated the process and I ended up starting as a freshman
and I started from four years.
I graduated the all time ACC career assist leader when I graduated.
I still hold every assist record at Clemson.
I was inducted into the hall of fame in 2009 and named an ACC legend in 2016.
So I made the right decision.
But at the time, if I looked at what I was doing, this seemed to be crazy.
You're going to play for somebody who's never seen you play before.
And so when I look back again, when I think people, as they really
evaluate their lives, If they really take a hard look at where they are
today, they can really see where they could have been, and they'll need to
understand that that was God, because you could have been somewhere else.
You could have been in anything else.
But God kept me through all that, and I was, you know, I was excited about that.
I think that going to college and then getting out, Jesse, was when
I really began to look for answers.
I think that growing up, when you're When you excel academically, when you
excel athletically, we think we're the answer and pretty much for, for
all intents and purposes, because we're not focused on anything else,
we rely on ourselves and sports as a platform is driven by motivation.
You know, that's the, that's the elemental mantra of sports being motivated.
Right.
And, um, it was for me, I subscribed to that.
I even talked to my book.
I said, I wasn't motivated.
I was competitive.
I've always had this thing about motivation and I never subscribed to it.
I was competitive.
I wasn't motivated.
And the competition was I just had to be better and it wasn't in comparison,
it was just, I want to be better.
I don't like to lose.
That was just kind of where my mindset was and I really didn't leave.
I really didn't understand that these were mindsets of Christ.
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
When I really look at the mindset that I had, it was really a Christ mindset.
When it came down to the foundational beliefs, because I never bought into
motivation, I bought into competitive, I bought into drive, I bought into
purpose, I bought into will, I bought into destiny, I bought into faith.
And I didn't even know what I was buying into at the time.
I had no idea.
So when I got out of school, because that was my mindset, Jesse, I had
no aspiration to play pro sports.
And when I talked to people about that, they're like, well, you were here, you
were, you were right, that was you.
But it wasn't me.
And probably should have been, but it wasn't based on where I got
and what I had achieved and many estimations what I'd overachieved.
Why would I not go to the next level?
Well, because I was married to Plan B and I'll break that down for you.
There's a verse of scripture, Jesse, that changed my life 20 something
years ago, and it's Mark 7 and 13.
And it says the traditions of man make the Word of God in none effect.
Man's traditions.
And what does that mean?
That means what you have accepted as your path in life.
What you see around you.
What you see on a normal basis.
Man's tradition.
So man's tradition for me said go to school, get your degree.
Right?
Man's tradition never told me to pursue my passion.
I grew up with, again, with educated parents.
I grew up with parents who were educators.
Never told me to pursue my passion.
Never talked to me about my passion.
Man's tradition.
And I believe that's, that's an element of the world.
It's not just my parents.
I don't believe many people have been taught to follow their passions.
I believe most people have been taught to follow what they're good at.
I mean, I believe most people have been told to follow what they test well at.
I believe many people have been taught to follow what pays the most, right?
I think these are the prerequisites for what you do and not your passion.
So I was just like everybody else.
I excelled in what I was supposed to be doing, not my passion, And for the
most part, I didn't know what that was.
So it's kind of hard to excel in something when you don't know what it is.
So when I talk about being married to plan B, plan B was
always something to fall back on.
Your degree was always something to fall back on.
And when I look at God and when I look at what he has done in
life, there was no plan B for God.
It was always plan A.
It was always just the way it's going to be.
But we subsequently live in plan B.
And here's what I realized about plan B.
Plan B puts you comfortable.
I say the greatest adversary that we face.
It's not a spiritual devil.
It's not social issues.
It's not a bad economy.
The biggest struggle that we face, the biggest adversary we face is comfort.
Grayson: Yeah, that's good.
Jesse: Because when you get comfortable, you're no threat.
See, the internet only attacks someone or goes after somebody who's a threat.
We've been seduced so much into being comfortable, we're not a threat.
We don't strike fear in the end because all I have to do is get you comfortable.
How do I do that?
Maybe I'll give you some governmental money.
Maybe I'll put you in a career that makes you comfortable.
Maybe I'll put you in a church that makes you comfortable.
Now you're not a threat.
I don't have to buy, I don't have to worry about you.
And so I let you literally take care of yourself and move you away from your
passion because you're not a threat.
You've been accustomed to systems, and you'd rather
perform than pursue your passion.
Grayson: So let me just clarify this now.
So plan B is when we pursue our strengths, what we, we know we
can, we can do in our own strength.
Plan A would be.
following our passion, which is God's plan.
Jesse: Correct.
So, so when I get to, when I look at plan B, so like, look at it this way, Jesse.
Plan A would be to play professional basketball, if that was my plan A.
But plan B is my degree to fall back on.
So here's what happens.
If plan B is already there, I never fully engage in plan A, never, because
I've always got plan B here, right?
I never, I never do that, but if plan B is not there, all I got is plan A, that
means everything I do goes into plan A.
That means I had to have total faith in plan A.
If I have plan B, all my faith isn't in plan A, it's in both plan A and
plan B, and faith can't be split.
The reality of it is for most of us, this is where we find ourselves.
And so we find ourselves not walking by faith.
We end up walking by sight, even though the word tells us that
Corinthians 5 7 don't do that, right?
We think about what faith is, and by biblical definition, the Bible says faith
is the substance of things hoped for.
The evidence of things not seen.
Well, in our English language, Jesse, evidence is faith.
Is things you see.
So when we're looking for evidence, even though we don't
want to, evidence is what we see.
So we literally walk by what we see and we're not supposed to.
He says the evidence things not seen, but we're always looking for God to show up.
I need a sign.
That's evidence.
That's something to see.
Walking by faith is the things you don't see.
So when I began to look at where I was in life, I had to really
reassess so many other things.
And once I really got into my Bible at 27, when I was homeless, then I
began to grab and understand some principles that I'd always lived by, I
just didn't know how to explain them.
They began to make sense to me, even though I had lived them, but I didn't know
where they were, where they came from.
They just seemed to fit.
And so when I began to really look at what it took and things that were
there, that began to change my life.
Getting to know Christ.
Was something that was unbelievably beneficial for me
Grayson: let me interrupt you right there.
I need to ask you, how did you get from that Catholic upbringing
to where you came to at 27?
Jesse: when I got to 27, I had already tried to make a life change prior to that.
So I knew Jesse that when I realized my degree wasn't what it was
supposed to be for me, that was, that was a harsh reality for me.
Right.
When I, when I, when I did what they asked me to do, and I really believe
I prescribed to the student athlete, the way it was supposed to be done.
I get out here, take my degree, use my degree and go build a life.
What I found was, is that that degree was a disadvantage more
than an advantage many times.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: has four years experience, and he's been doing it since high school,
and Grayson Marshall has four years of college and has never done it,
when Jesse Dukes and Grayson Marshall sit down, Jesse Dukes gets hired.
Why?
Because he has four years experience.
So what did I literally gain from college?
I gained world experience.
I gained, uh, access to maybe things other people don't have, but I'm behind
the, I'm behind the game now because Jesse, who didn't even go to college, is
already making more money than Grayson.
He's already got a four year head start in the working world on Grayson.
So literally what I thought was a benefit for me.
Really became a detractor more times than not.
So that was frustrating.
And I knew competitively, Jesse, I wanted more.
I knew that I wanted stuff.
I knew that I wanted life.
So how are people getting stuff?
How are people living this dream?
I, I, um, I sheepishly say that growing up, I love soap opera.
I used to watch soap operas growing up and I watched them because.
I knew it was TV, but I love the illusion of what I thought at that
time, but I knew it wasn't real.
But being a corporate executive, you know, walking into boardrooms
and making decisions and wearing suits every day, I mean, to me, it
was the coolest thing in the world.
And that's what I really wanted.
I wanted to be in the business world, but I didn't have anybody
that was in the business world.
My parents were both in the working world.
So I began to pursue business without a coach, without somebody to teach me.
And ultimately, when you do that, you fail.
Well, I failed miserably at times.
Success sometimes, misery at other times.
that's when I found myself without a place to live.
And it was at that time that I literally just was really crying out.
And I remember my grandmother giving me a book in college.
Now, my grandmother was saved as you can be.
My maternal grandmother.
And she gave me a book called Hind's Feet on High Places.
Grayson: Yeah.
Jesse: And it was about David.
And so I began to really study the life of David.
And I began to watch and look and learn, and then I said, well, after
reading this and being who I am, the Catholic Church doesn't help me.
I just said that now I don't, I don't reduce the Catholic Church.
I believe there's salvation in the Catholic Church.
There's a lot of Catholics I know that love God and they, they're born again.
But, I couldn't go back to the Catholic Church.
There was nothing about that that drew me back, and there was no God for me there.
So I began to look for a church here in Jacksonville, and I remember driving
down the road, and I looked up on a billboard, and because I didn't know
anything about church, I figured if there was a pastor on a billboard,
then he had to be legit, right?
So I didn't think he did that, because I, you never saw a
Catholic church on a billboard.
So I'm like, okay, well, maybe this, so I remember seeing the pastors, uh,
uh, advertising on the billboards.
And so I just drove to the church and I pulled up to the church and
I tried to pull in the doors to get in and all the doors were locked.
And the first thing that went through my mind, Jesse was this, I've been
sinning so bad, I can't even get into the church when I'm trying to get.
That was my, that was what went through my head.
And I turned to walk away and a guy came and opened the door.
His name was Drake Johnson, minister Drake Johnson.
And, um, he took me and we talked for six hours, took me to get something to eat.
And I began to pour my heart out to him.
And we talked for six hours and he invited me to church.
And so I ended up going.
to church with him.
And I didn't know anything about salvation.
I didn't know anything about anything.
Right.
But there was an altar call.
I didn't even know what that was.
There was an altar call and they said, if you want to give your
life to Jesus, come on down here.
So I guess I was in a place of brokenness.
And again, I did not know what I was doing, but Jesus come to him.
Sounds good.
I'm going down.
So I walked down to the front of church.
And they began to pray and then they took us in his back room right now.
I didn't get, I had no idea what speaking in tongues was and none of that stuff.
And when I got to the back room, Jesse, they took us in his back room.
And to me, it was kind of spooky, right?
Cause you go into this room, all these lights on and all these
people are praying in tongues.
And I'm sitting in Jesse when my hands lifted up with one eye open.
I'm like, I don't trust you, right?
I mean, that's just where I was.
I'm being, I was like, this is all new to me, but I figured I
knew what I'd gone through as a Catholic wasn't gonna help me.
So I said, Okay, well, I'll see what this looks like.
And I got, you know, got there came back to service a couple
times and I remember feeling lost.
Right.
I remember hearing him preach and just feeling lost.
Not like I didn't understand, like, where are you going with this message?
Like, it doesn't mean anything.
It was more of the, it was more the animations, the antics.
It was the hooping, it was all that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, what, what, what, what is this?
So I'm like, I left there and at that time I was doing radio.
And my producer on the show, I was telling him about, you know, getting, getting
saved and how my heart was feeling.
And he goes, man, you need to come to my church.
And I said, okay.
And he told me that his church name was the Potter's house.
And I said, well, that ain't no name, no church, man.
I ain't going to a place called the Potter's house.
I don't know what that is.
So he told me about, he told me about the book of Jeremiah and being on a
potter's wheel, and that was his based on.
I said, okay.
So he said, well, I said, when's the service?
They're Friday night.
I said, man, I'll go to my church on Friday.
Oh, he said, uh, I said, I said, do you have a church on Sunday?
He said, yeah.
He said, uh, I said, what time is it?
Eight o'clock.
I said, okay, I'll be there.
So I remember going into the Potter's house and they were still in the multiplex
at the time and Bishop came and preached at eight o'clock and it was one of
the most moving things I'd ever heard.
It was an amazing, amazing, uh, uh, message that the music was awesome.
I'm like, okay.
This is cool.
I can do this.
This is all right.
So I ended up just getting entrenched in the ministry, entrenched in the message.
Um, I didn't do anything for about three years, just be there.
That's all I was doing.
I was just there.
And then shortly after being there for a while, uh, he asked
me to take over basketball.
And then I started the Blacktop, which is outside street ministry.
It slowly progressed into just about everything and then I started a
basketball program there and built it to one of the best ones in the city.
But it was all about, um, really learning to love Christ.
But I think for me, um, I always wanted to really serve God
in the best way that I could.
And I was able to hear scripture and listen to it and
understand it and retain it.
And there was so much that were there.
And because I didn't know anything about church, I didn't know what to
look for, but I felt good being there.
Right.
And I felt like the presence of God was there.
And I felt like, um, I was learning so much.
Bishop taught me so much about exegesis and isogesis and homiletics and
hermeneutics and every aspect of, sharing the gospel Bishop Paul McLaughlin,
an amazing guy and I think that, uh, when you, when you come into where you
are in life and in ministry, I think one of the things that people don't
do is understand what it really is.
And I believe that a parent raises a child to leave his house.
And I think for most ministries, people pride themselves on staying there.
Grayson: Hmm.
Jesse: And I think that that becomes a conflict for some people.
And I think that's why people can't move into where they need to be.
But I was a little bit different.
I knew when it was time for me to move to somewhere else, and it
wasn't necessarily another church.
And I think people have the misunderstanding of that.
I think it's time for you to go and do what God called you to do.
And oftentimes, um, it's misunderstood oftentimes, but
you have to know who you are.
And I think that's why I'm so adamant about now sharing with
people to follow their passion.
And what is it?
You've got God to answer to, not man.
And he puts people in your life to give you directions, to point
you in the right direction, to pull you back and let you go.
Discipleship is about literally teaching you to be a disciple of Christ,
not a member of a church so much.
And I think that the whole misconception today is about church membership.
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: about baptisms.
It's about who got saved, all this kind of stuff.
And then I think it's, it's a misleading and a misrepresentation
of what it really is.
Grayson: Hmm.
Jesse: For me, having God in my life, and Bishop was a major, major piece of
that, um, gave me the strength and the wherewithal to go be and do everything
that I've done, you know, in life.
I think that, uh, it's really respecting where things are.
I think it's understanding, uh, who you are and growing to be who you are.
You know, God made us individually different.
But school made us alike as possible, and tradition makes us alike as possible.
So church makes us alike as possible, right?
So if I'm a certain denomination, I have to be an act Baptist.
I have to be an act Church of God.
I'm going to act like a Church of God person, right?
So now I become defined by my label I've accepted, and I
lose, I lose my individuality.
I'm not who I am.
Um, this is who, right, this people begin to assimilate themselves
with the larger group instead of focusing on and really adhering to
or enhancing their own individuality.
So again, that's why I said Mark 7 and 13, the traditions of man make
the Word of God in none effect.
There's some, there's some things we accept in tradition that don't allow
us to be who we're supposed to be.
And that can be a frustrating thing at the time, and I think there's
a lot of people, Jesse out there, that are frustrated with that.
Because they don't know.
Um, we've gotten away from really sharing the gospel.
And the gospel isn't just getting people saved.
It's more than that.
It's a way we live and let our light so shine before men that we might
seem, uh, they might seem our works of glorifying the Father, which is in heaven.
That's what the gospel should result in, right?
Because again, if salvation or getting saved is your ultimate goal, once
you get saved, you get comfortable.
Grayson: Right,
Jesse: And once you get comfortable, you're no threat to the kingdom.
Grayson: right.
Mm-Hmm.
Jesse: we have to change some things when it comes down to the messaging
that we give in today's world.
You know, so when I look at what God did in my life, um, he kind of reinforced what
I was as a little kid, just different.
I don't want to do like everybody else, you know, now, again, that to me, models
of some of the life that Jesus had, because he wasn't received by his own.
The Bible says he went into his own and his own received him.
Not, he did it different.
He did it so different that his own people.
Didn't know, didn't understand him.
He said he went into his own, and his own one received him.
Now, I mean, how does that feel to be able to go into your own people and
say, look, I'm here, and everybody's like, nah, you're not the one.
But he still, but he knew what his message was.
He knew what his assignment was from day one.
He knew what plan A was.
As a matter of fact, even Jesus as an earthly man, Jesse, tried to get plan B.
When he was in the garden, he said, look, he said, if it'd be possible,
let this cut past before me.
He was like, look, I know we talked about this up there.
I was with it when I left.
I'm going down there, you know, down the sprawls, you know,
they, they gonna come back to us.
That's what we're gonna do.
But when he got down there, right before he was supposed to do
this, He said, can we talk pops?
Look, um, I've been with this thing for a long time.
Uh, it sounded good when we started.
Now I'm down here.
It's about to happen tomorrow.
Is there anything else we can do?
We have no plan B.
There is no plan B.
It's the only plan that works.
And I think if we begin to really look at that as a model, we
have to understand what it is.
Now, why did that model work for Jesus?
Because he knew exactly what it was from the beginning.
He had one assignment.
From the beginning.
And I think that's where we, that's where we are challenged because we
don't know what that one assignment is.
We have to find it.
And oftentimes it's guided by someone else's agenda.
Our assignment usually is shaped into somebody else's
big picture or somebody else.
Grayson: Yeah.
Jesse: Absolutely.
And not ours.
So we get caught up in that, that tradition makes the
word of God of none effect,
So for me now, where I am and building self and no excuses.
I think I want people to be, um, I want to be real instead of relevant.
I think everybody, I think there's a messaging today, Jesse, that
people want to be relevant.
They want to have a meaning today.
No, you need to be real.
Relevance goes with the culture, you know, and I think because you
want to be relevant, you become fluid and you change with the wind.
And the Bible talks about it in James.
It says we're tossed to and fro by anyone adopting.
You want to be relevant.
You tend to assimilate to.
The culture, if you want to be relevant, I want it, but that's
not what I supposed to be relevant.
It was supposed to be real.
Grayson: Mm.
Jesse: There's a, again, it's the, it's the influence of man.
It's the influence of tradition that wants it to be relevant.
Why we, we're supposed to not be of the world, be in it, but not of it,
but we become of it instead of in it.
We start looking like.
We start looking like it, right?
So it becomes, so what, what's the result of that?
It's a watered down version of who we're supposed to be.
Grayson: Mm
Jesse: Our light now has it now light now has a, um, has a color
bulb instead of a true light bulb.
You know, it's, it's, it's still giving light.
It's just not giving the same light.
You know what I mean?
It's given a completely different light.
So for me, I'm.
I'm adamant about, challenging people to do that, challenging people to put their
passion first, When we talk about the gospel, the gospel should do four things.
It should challenge, it should confront, it should convert.
And it should show compassion.
That's what the gospel should do.
But when we live in this era that we're living in, where you have things like
diversity, equity, and inclusion, and you have everybody loving themselves.
Well, here's the reality.
There is no challenge because if you challenge or you confront, now you
are either phobic or you're canceled.
So we can't even share the gospel because that's what the gospel is supposed to do.
So what we end up doing is debating and arguing.
And I don't believe Jesus ever debated or argued with anybody.
I think we just need to stay focused on where we are.
So for me, When I'm sharing the messaging of Build Self With No Excuses, it's
about building yourself as God sees you.
Build yourself as God has ordained or put out there for you to be.
How can we build ourselves to be the best version of ourselves in God's eyes?
You know, when it comes down to it, we have to be able to deal
with the issues of the day.
But I don't think people want to deal with them because they're not equipped
enough to understand their Bible.
They don't believe it enough.
And so we've got to get to a place where we are encouraging people
to stand for God in the right way.
You don't have to argue with people.
You just live something before them.
You know, when I use sports analogies a lot, Jesse, and one
of the greatest college basketball coaches was a guy named John Wooden.
John Wooden, they called him the Wizard of Westwood.
He was the head coach at University of California, Los Angeles,
or as most people know, UCLA.
And he went through winning 10 national titles.
And he had some great players.
He had Walton, he had Jabbar.
I mean, you go through it, he had the great ones.
But one of the things that, um, made him so significant as a coach is
that he never scouted his opponent.
Not one time.
Now in sports, usually we scout the other team so we can have a
strategic advantage or be prepared.
Grayson: right?
Jesse: philosophy was a little bit different.
He said, I believe that if I'm so good at what I do, it doesn't matter what you do.
If I'm so good at what I do, I don't care what you do.
But I think we've gotten to a place where we're more concerned about
what the other people do, instead of getting real good at what we do.
I hear so many people in spirit, in spiritual language, say the devil's busy.
I hear it all the time.
Man, the devil's busy, devil is devil.
Well, hold on a minute.
Is God not busy too?
Why are we focused on the devil?
This is where our mind goes.
We're so fixated on the problem, instead of knowing we have a solution.
Why don't we focus on the solution some more?
And this again, this man's tradition, we've been taught that fear is what
we have to face and get, but he says he didn't give it a spirit of fear,
but a power and love and a sound mind.
We're focused on the wrong stuff.
So when it really comes down to where we are, how do we really
get proficient at the God stuff?
When people are looking at becoming, counterfeit, experts,
when they're being trained on how to really see a counterfeit,
they don't study counterfeits.
They study the original paper.
Grayson: Right,
Jesse: get so good at knowing what the original looks like, they can spot
a counterfeit a hundred miles away.
Grayson: right.
So the analogy is that when we get closer to Jesus.
we will easily see what's not Jesus.
Jesse: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
And the bad part about it, Jesse, is that unfortunately we've aligned
ourselves with what's not Jesus.
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: And we've committed to it to where when we realize it's not
Jesus, it's hard for us to walk away.
So when we hear things about what we've aligned with, that when you
really are presented with something that says, no, that ain't Jesus,
it's hard for people to not do it.
Why?
Because everybody else is doing it.
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: And they don't Absolutely.
Man's tradition makes the Word of God into effect.
Tradition says you have to be in the church.
It gives us all these things that we battle with.
And I'm not telling people, don't go to church.
What I'm saying to you is, is that, is where you're going
really representing Christ?
And that doesn't mean they don't believe in the gospel.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying to you, is it really representing Christ when you
look at it as for what it is?
Most of what our deliveries today are, are entertainment.
How can I get you in?
Well, here's the reality, Jesse.
The gospel is supposed to attract.
The gospel's not enough.
We have to put on plays and concerts.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not opposed to any of those things as methodology, but when
it's the way that you attract me, here's what you have to remember.
If I attract you that way, I got to keep doing that to keep you.
Grayson: Right.
It becomes an idol.
Jesse: Absolutely.
Worshipping that as opposed to worship the true and living God, right?
that's why, and that's why messaging like this isn't going to go on many pulpits.
You know, when I, when I go, when I actually get invited to a church,
they don't want me there really.
And I'm, I'm, I'm honest about that.
Cause I tell folk anywhere I go to speak, my girlfriend
does not like me to say this.
But I do say this almost every time I go speak, that I'm here for
one reason and one reason only, and that's not to be ass backed.
Truth!
And I mean, and I mean that sincerely.
Now, I'm usually ass backed, but my goal isn't to say something fluffy and fun.
Now, my goal isn't to rebuke the whole room either.
My goal, Jesse, is to get you to think.
It's the one thing that we've literally not done lately.
Because we have experienced and engaged in stuff that if you really
thought about it, made no sense.
So why did I do that?
But because man's tradition, the influence of the populace, the
influence of the masses, is what gets you to be subjective to how you think.
You know what I'm saying?
That, for me, I can't do this.
And the biggest, the biggest, um, uh, example of that, In most
recent years was this COVID thing.
Grayson: Oh man.
Jesse: You, you're not gonna, I wasn't buying none of that bulljigging at all.
I don't care what they said.
Now, again, I never knocked anybody that bought into it.
I never knocked anybody who had to, to do what they need to do to survive,
because there were people that had to make choices with their life.
You lose your job if you don't do this, or you lose your
livelihood if you don't do this.
You're the only breadwinner.
Look, you gotta do what you gotta do.
But for me?
It didn't make sense.
That's all.
Now, if I'm gonna, if I'm going to be subject to a conspiracy, Jesse,
Jesus coming from heaven, dying on the cross and raising on the third day,
I'm gonna go with that conspiracy.
If I'm gonna be a conspiracy theorist, I'm gonna go with that conspiracy.
Then the other one's y'all the manufacturer, right?
When it comes down to it, because none of it made sense to me, right?
Grayson: Me too.
Jesse: Especially when it came down to how the people of God treated now, don't
get me wrong, here's what did make sense to me, Jesse, that pastors, for a large
part, were reluctant to speak about it because the risk of losing their 501c3
designation was a real, was a real thing.
Grayson: Mm.
Jesse: Even our churches are governmentally run.
You're a 501c3.
Who said you have to be?
You don't have to be.
You don't.
Grayson: I'm with you.
Jesse: But because, but because the model works and the donations are tax free,
you can actually operate a business with very few restrictions except X, Y, and Z.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: Because to me, if you are like Paul, Paul had a career, Paul was a tent
maker, Paul had his own money, even now, even though people sold into him, Paul
would have done ministry just the same.
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: We have the wrong model for it.
Everybody can just ordain themselves an apostle or bishop when they
feel like it and start a church.
I'm not knocking any of them.
I'm not saying they're not anointed.
That's not the point.
The point is to me, not only the point is, is that we really have no
protocol to follow except the Bible.
And we're not doing that the way that we should.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: So we can't get the full essence of the gospel.
So we become, we become sect driven.
I want to be about deliverance.
I want to be about spirituality.
I want to be, and we find a group that kind of fits what's comfortable for us.
I told, I told a group the other day, Jesse, I said, You can't tell
me your passion is to be an usher.
You can't do that.
You can't tell me passion.
You can't tell me that.
But we find, here's what we do.
We find somewhere in church that we can do ministry comfortably.
Grayson: Mm.
Jesse: We find an area that I can do this without anything.
Well, ministry should be the challenge you because the gospel should challenge you.
Grayson: ministry should be allowing the Holy Spirit to, live through you
instead of you trying to just fit into what people say you should do.
Jesse: correct.
Well, here's what's funny to me, Jesse, is that when you join a church and they give
you a spiritual gifts assessment, it's ironic to me always that my spiritual gift
fits what the church needs at that moment.
You know what I'm saying?
Grayson: Yeah.
Jesse: And again, again, I'm not, this isn't me knocking church.
This is me truly having a step back and understanding of stuff I can see.
Grayson: Mm
Jesse: church shouldn't be predictable.
And it is, for the most part, nowadays.
It shouldn't be predictable.
But I can go to different cities and go into a different church that
falls under a certain denomination or a certain group and there's a
certain order of service I can expect.
Right?
Grayson: hmm.
Like McDonald's.
Jesse: Absolutely.
So when you have large organizations now that are actually business fine
church, I can go to one church that has those three initials in one state,
and I can go to another church that has those three initials in another state.
And why is the music almost the same?
And why is the way you do it almost the same?
Why does it, don't tell me God is in that.
We're all different.
There's no way it should look the same.
But it does.
Why?
Because people are more apt to be involved.
If it's familiar, they're more and like, they're more likely to be
involved if it's comfortable, right?
So Jesse, if you grew up, uh, in a, in a, in a Pentecostal environment, if
ain't nobody falling out during church, if ain't nobody running around the
building, if ain't nobody casting out demons, you say it ain't church, right?
Grayson: Right.
Jesse: You know what I'm saying?
Because that's what church is.
And if that, those elements aren't there, it's like, well, this ain't church.
Or if you're a different way, if none of those things exist and
somebody starts doing it, it's like, whoa, that ain't church at all.
Why, why?
That's kind of where we are because we've given church labels.
Because we talk about what's not church, we don't say what's not God.
We don't say what's not, we say what's not church, because we label it.
And so I think for me now, um, as I, as I Find my true place in my passion,
which is my heart has always been for people, is to truly realize that
those four things I said confront, challenge, confront, convict, and, uh,
challenge, confront, convert, and have compassion are all the things that I
want to do, you know, so there's so many things that are facing us today.
I don't think many people here know how to deal with somebody who may be transgender.
Or maybe in a different gay or homosexual lifestyle.
They know how to treat him with the gospel.
They know how to tell him it's not right.
But how do you really minister to him?
How do you share the light?
How do you show that?
And I believe that's not something that we're taught from pulpits.
I believe the part of us being able to disciple is to know how, again, to
equip the saints to work in ministry.
Here's what's going on.
How would you deal with this?
How do you answer this?
That's not what we get.
We get rah rah sessions and motivational messages and we go out here and
we fight and we lose the battle of being a light because our light's
off when it comes to other people.
We don't know how to deal with them.
Grayson: Mm.
Jesse: I think that for me, I believe that that's part of my, my passionate pursuit.
And I think in a world of, that we live in today, Jesse, we're supposed to be
creating leaders, yet the only thing we measured by is how many followers we have.
Grayson: Well, everything that you've said is it seems to me like you
are into discipleship or a lot of different levels, because Jesus said,
make disciples, you know, and that's what we're supposed to be doing.
And we can't do it with it.
Like you said, you know, just, Fluffy sermons or, or topical sermons.
You know, it's about relationship.
And, uh,
Jesse: person that desires relationship and understands relationship
in order to have relationship,
Grayson: Mm
Jesse: I think that when you have a desire to do that and it's
different from the world, it's really, it's really challenging.
I mean, it's for people who really want to serve God, they find themselves
alone a lot because mainstream messaging doesn't fit, right?
I can't do that.
So it's, I'm not going to be as exciting or inviting as
someone who is entertaining.
You know, that's just the way it is.
So I, that's, that's been the, that's been the biggest battle with moving
forward in the things that you do is if you look at what's there, you feel
like you're losing ground, right.
Or you feel like you have to change what you do.
You know, you have to become what they are, and I think that
I'm never going to do that.
So I think that, um, your passionate pursuit of where you are and what
you want in life and really know how much God has done for you.
Yeah.
You talk about your podcast and the messaging that you want to
leave with people is, you know, how God has changed your life.
And I think that for me, Jesse, there was some ideologies that.
I believe were elements of the church that I just didn't agree with.
I think for me, having the boldness enough to stand in a space that I'm going to
speak my truth, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't matter to me how you get it.
I was okay with speaking my truth when it came to COVID.
I was okay to speak my truth when it came to politics.
There's no politics in the Bible, so why am I even entertaining it?
Grayson: mm hmm,
Jesse: And there's so many things we feel like we have to take sides on, right?
When we talk about social injustice and we talk about race, I'm like,
why are we still talking about it?
I mean, I don't, I don't, you're not going to get me down, pulled
down that rabbit hole, because there's no, there's no reason.
Because if the Bible is my foundation, then God has no respect to a person.
I don't care what society's done, God has no respect to a person.
Uh, so that, that for me is for a lot of people is a different
message and I'm okay with that.
But there are more people that don't subscribe to that than do,
yet their voices are sequestered and squandered because they don't
really feel like they have a voice.
And I think when you truly disciple people, that's the case.
If you look at the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus only talked to the 12.
It was the crowd that came and listened.
He took the 12 of them away.
You know, I want to talk to you 12 and you go do what you need to do,
but everybody else came to hear that.
And Jesus spoke in parables.
He said, because the things of the kingdom are too complex for you to understand.
The accountability to really be a disciple of Christ is way over the heads
of most people when it comes down to it.
Even the elements of it.
I mean, Jesse, come on now.
What human being is ready to forgive seven times seven, you know what I mean?
But that's the way it's supposed to be.
Right?
So the things that a kingdom are hard as when it comes down to it.
And ultimately, that's where we have to be.
We have to decide if that's what we're going to follow.
If we're going to be kingdom people, then we've got to do things that
don't look like everybody else.
Grayson: mm hmm,
Jesse: And I think that's the biggest challenge because we've lived in a
world that, um, acknowledgement is And scrutiny are all a part of how we do.
We live in a comparison world and we're so worried about being compared
to other people or what it's going to look like to somebody else that we
can't do what we're supposed to do.
And I just want to encourage people that there is a life with Christ, that you
can be the person that you want to be.
Uh, you don't have to line up to social norms and, and be a part of that.
You need to remove the emotion of most of your decision making and really become.
What you need to become for other people.
And I think that's where, you know, I am.
So I'm relegated to that.
I'm okay with that.
And I'm going to keep doing that.
Grayson: mm hmm.
Well, you know, Jesus's says, I only say what I hear the Father say.
I only do what I see the Father do.
to me, that's where we should be as disciples.
We should be so closely aligned with, with Him, abiding in Him, that all of
these other distractions, you know, like all these things we just talked about.
are irrelevant, really, because that's, we're not, we're only here
to please him and not, people.
Jesse: Absolutely.
And I think, and I think that's again, Mark seven and 13, the
tradition of man says, please man, first, not God, that's what
Grayson: hmm.
Jesse: says.
Get, get in good graces with man.
Grayson: Mm
Jesse: That's, that's what we believe.
And that's what we tend to do.
The affirmation, the validation from men is more important than
affirmation and validation from God.
Right.
And I think.
I think that's where people come to a complete challenge and where they are,
but I think that, you know, Jesse, if you continue to put out the, the
information that you're putting out and, and have people on your show that
really believe in that way, uh, if we'll begin to work together and get
the right messaging to the right places.
Uh, I think that we, we definitely will make the impactful difference that we need
to make, but we have to be okay with that.
And we have to be okay with what we know we believe, but we have to be studious
enough and intentional enough to, to study to show that self approval in the God.
A workman need not be ashamed, rightly divine, the word of truth.
That's what we have to do.
Grayson: Well, you know, since you, said that, I think we ought to shift
gears a little bit here because you are doing what you're talking about.
you are so busy with a lot of different things.
I would like for you to Take some time to tell about your coaching and your
books and all the different things that you're involved in, because even
though it may not be church, you're building disciples in every area of
your life, at least from what I see.
And I'd like to, I'd like to hear about that.
Jesse: Absolutely.
Yes.
I think that what, what got on my side of my heart years ago was men and the,
uh, the displacement of men in society.
Uh, men have been emasculated, men have been reduced.
The feminist movement truly was never about women, it was always about
destroying the nuclear family, and you can't do that unless you destroy the man.
So I think that my whole purpose is, is to make men aware of who they
really are, um, equip them and empower them to reestablish themselves as who
they are, and move them to a closer relationship with what will sustain them.
When it comes down to it.
So, um, I work with men healing, the hurt men hide.
I work with them.
Um, that's a piece of it.
I have a clothing line called manicure present your best self.
So it's all about positive motivational where the guys can literally
signify a man of destiny messaging.
So it's just a reminder when it comes to it.
I think that any takeaway that you can have from an experience is important.
Um, that is truly my heart.
My heart is just to see people differently.
So I've done coaching at the executive level.
I've done coaching it obviously in the sports realm, but my heart now
is really coaching people who are working through finding who they are.
Um, getting them to challenge their old mindsets.
Um, my podcast is called GM, which is my initials talking BS.
And talking BS is, uh, belief systems.
It's breaking structures.
It's building synergy.
And anything that you can put a B and an S to that's positive,
that's why I want to talk.
So it's GM talking BS.
And people will see it.
Talking BS, well they, they're gonna, it is what it is.
And it, but it isn't.
But I think that's me.
So it's about me really talking BS.
And talking about what your BS is.
And you can use the vernacular because that's what it is.
It's a really bull, you know what, but it's your belief systems.
It's breaking structures, it's building synergy, it's being
soulful, you know, it's your bank statements, it's your stewardship,
it's everything when you're talking BS.
And that's, that's, that for me is where it is.
So I think, um, my whole purpose in messaging has become refined to that.
To GM talking BS.
And I want to, I want to be, uh, evangelistic.
So to speak in that messaging and just be able to go and empathetically challenge
people when it comes to it So I do it on a personal level one on one with coaching.
I've been fortunate enough to do it in corporations And be able to share
in there in a unique, uh, in a unique way, but I'm not afraid to do it.
I think that, um, corporate America doesn't bother me.
It doesn't fear me.
I'm not going to hold my tongue.
So I said, I'm, I'm here to not be asked back.
I'm going to say probably what you all don't agree with that is
politically correct in your workplace.
Well, I don't work here, so I be politically correct.
Um, that's just, that's just how I feel about it.
But I believe that any opportunity I get.
To, um, talk to, challenge, change, have a discussion with.
I am passionate about seeing people be the best version of themselves,
but especially men, especially men.
and I think that we bought into some narratives emotionally
that don't serve us.
And those need to be re re evaluated, adjusted, and shifted so that we can
be the best version of ourselves.
Grayson: what kind of narratives that we've bought into that we need to discard?
Jesse: I think that men not being, leaders.
I think men being providers and what that entails, I think provision
is not necessarily about money.
It's about a structure.
It's about a place where everybody can grow.
I think, again, there's, there's words and, and phrase and ideologies
that have been used that limit men.
I've always said that labels limit.
When you're talking about being a provider, are you providing
a healthy place for people to grow, your spouse to grow?
Not necessarily about who makes the most money.
If you did, you reduced the provision that he's providing you all the way around,
then you're missing what provision is.
But because we reduced it to just money and um, what you can get
from me, then you're missing what really the value of the man is.
When it comes down to it, deal with, economic issues, people believe that
they're not supposed to have, it's historically been, obvious that there
have been, groups of people that may not have been as fortunate as others.
If we believe in the gospel, that shouldn't matter, but a lot of,
but a lot of times we buy into it.
And again, fair is a four letter word that begins with F.
It's never going to be fair when it comes down to it.
And even when you look at the parable of the sower, Jesse.
The parable says at the end that, and some fell on good ground, right?
Some of the seed fell on good ground.
But what I noticed about that part of that, uh, parable is the fact that
the seed that fell on good ground, it says some produce 30, some produce
60, and some produce a hundred.
So Jesse, even when everything is quote unquote equal.
Some people are still going to only produce 30.
Some people are still only produce 60 and some people don't produce on.
It's never going to be equal anyway.
So I think a lot of the messaging that we want to share to reduce us.
And again, make excuses.
That's why I'm about bill.
So no excuses.
They exist today, right?
I don't believe there's anything in personal color can't do in the world.
But yet there's a belief system that they can't.
The excuses that we make, whether they be politically, socially, economically,
seem to be greater than what's in you.
And the Bible says, greater is he that's in you, that's he that's in the world.
One of my favorite, one of my favorite verses of scripture is Ephesians 3 and 20.
None to him that is able to do exceedingly and abundantly above
all who can ask of thing according to the power that worketh in him.
And you right that God gave you a Deuteronomy talks about giving you the
ability to obtain wealth and wealth doesn't necessarily means money.
It means wealth of information, wealth of knowledge, wealth of experience.
You know, I think we reduce that messaging to just money, but it's not just money.
It's being as being wealthy all the way around.
So I think those narratives, those mantras.
Um, those belief systems are where we have to really shift and we have
to call people on where they are.
You know, there's certain thing in the church that just doesn't serve us well.
Um, there's certain, there's certain egos in the church that literally
take the fact that people don't know their word and they use the word
manipulatively to get what they want.
So I think we have to, the Bible talks about a high time
that we wake up out of sleep.
We got to see what's happening.
Grayson: you mentioned the Parable of the Solar and I think, the whole
process of discipleship is to, to help people become that good ground
Because it's, it is not the seed, the seed's the same for everybody.
It's the ground that makes the difference.
So it's up to us to become good soil
Jesse: and everybody's not gonna produce a hundred.
Some are gonna produce early, some produce produce 60.
The problem is we try to make the thirties produce 60 and they get frustrated.
Grayson: Mmm.
Jesse: A hundred.
They get frustrated.
What's for you is for you?
If 60 is your best, gimme your best.
But what we want is your best to be what we want.
Grayson: Mm.
Jesse: we're, we're ignoring what it is that you're supposed to be
doing or you're capable of doing at this point in time in your life.
Let people be where they are.
We, we've said it before, bloom, where you're planet.
where you have, what, what can you yield from where you are?
Because there may be some more of your ground that needs to be tilled.
There may be some more of your ground that needs to be watered
before you can produce more.
Grayson: Mm hmm.
Jesse: You know what I mean?
But most of our evaluation is based on what someone else needs from us.
Not what we need from ourselves or for ourselves.
Grayson: Yeah.
Well, tell people where they can, get more of you, websites, books, podcast,
Jesse: Yeah, everything is on my website.
GM talking BS dot com.
Grayson: gmtalkingbs.
com
Jesse: Everything is there.
My pod, my daily podcast, the link is right there.
Um, consultations, uh, is, uh, scheduling is right there.
Um, my books to order them.
Everything is right there.
Uh, all the things that we're doing.
Uh, now it's all up there.
So everything can be gotten at GM talking BS dot com.
Grayson: Well, thank you for that.
We're, we are about out of time, if you have one piece of advice that you could
pass on to a young man or a young woman out there that could change their lives.
What would that be?
Jesse: I think I'm going to give you two answers.
because I want to make sure we stay true to having God as the center of
our lives and Jesus being the focus.
But when I talk to people about their lives, And these both
things are spiritual as well.
if someone wanted to change their life right now, and they wanted
to have an immediate impact, they could do it in this fashion.
Number one is have no emotional attachment to any outcome.
And number two is no time frame for things to happen.
Romans 8 and 28 is true.
That all things work together for the good, for them that love God and those
that are called according to his purpose.
Then, there's no reason for you to be emotionally attached to any outcome.
It's all working together for your good.
As a matter of fact, I would contend that when you are living that
way, there are no wrong decisions.
I think we live in a world, Jesse, where outcomes are what we are
looking for, and we tend to try to manipulate and control the outcome.
Well, Romans 8 and 28 said that all things work together for your good anyway,
so have no emotional attachment to it.
When you get an emotional attachment to something, now you become a person.
The one who's driving the train.
Well, the second part of that is no timeframe for things to happen.
Jesse, let me ask you something.
When has God ever worked on your timeframe?
Grayson: Never.
Jesse: So when we take those things off the table and we change those things, we
get to walk in a more spiritual place.
And I think that right there is what you actually can do to shift where
you are right now, anybody that if you learn to not be emotional about
outcomes, and trust that God is leading you and take time frames off the table.
You allow him to do his work.
You allow him to work with you, grow you, change you so that you can be the
good brown you talked about, Jesse.
So if I take decision making off the table and stop worrying about
outcomes now, I'm leaving the outcome to God That's a spiritual thing.
Here's what I have to do is a spiritual thing I have to do if I
remove the time frames Now, I'm not playing God, I'm allowing God to work.
So there's a natural thing I have to do, like 1 Corinthians 15, 46,
says first natural, then spiritual.
And that first description is talking about exegetically the
first Adam and the second Adam.
But there's a rhema, there's a present day truth to that.
And I think that's where we have to get to, understanding that, and that's
why I believe that if somebody's able to do that, I'm not saying it's easy,
nothing about following God is easy.
But if you're able to do that, then you can literally change
your life and have and begin to have a life that you want to have,
Grayson: Yeah.
Well, anything else you want to add?
Jesse: I just want to say thank you for allowing me to be a
part of what you're doing.
I wish you all the success.
And you see your heart is about Christ.
I can tell that.
And, um, don't worry about it.
Focus on the outcomes.
Just keep doing what you do.
Don't worry about anything.
Just keep doing what it is that you do.
And, um, I just appreciate an atmosphere and an opportunity to be able to
share what God has in my heart.
And I hope that whoever watches this, whether it's one or a million, that
you get something from it and it can impact you and get you to change.
Grayson: Thank you so much for being here.
This has been a real blessing.
Would you, would you pray for our listeners?
Jesse: Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Father God, we thank you for this opportunity to be in your presence.
We thank you for the fruit that this is going to yield, Father God.
Father God, continue to touch the hand of Jesse Dukes, Father God,
lift him up, raise him, Father God.
You know your work with him is not done yet because he's still here.
Everybody watching this program right now, Father God, I pray that they
deepen their relationship with you.
They, Matthew 6 and 33, and they seek ye first the kingdom of
God and his righteousness and everything will be added unto them.
Make that not just a declaration, but a belief, Father God.
So we pray, healing, love, understanding to everyone that watches this.
Father God, prosper them and give them what they needed.
Have them trust and rely on you for everything in their lives.
And we'll always give you the praise and honor and glory in Jesus name.
Amen.
Grayson: Amen.
Cailin: We hope you've been blessed by today's story.
if you've heard something that you think could help someone you know, please share
it using the link in the show notes.
Also, if you will give Faith and Purpose a positive review on your podcast platform,
you could help more people find it.
You will probably never know how that small effort can make a big
difference in someone's life, but our Heavenly Father knows.
Speaking of sharing, if you know a Jesus follower with a story to tell, please send
them a link to Faith and Purpose Podcast.
It may encourage them to tell their story.
That person may even be you.
Our only criteria is that Jesus be glorified.
Most Christians don't share their faith because they mistakenly think
their story is not interesting enough, or that it's self centered to talk
about themselves, or that they are not competent to explain the gospel correctly.
But none of that is relevant.
If Jesus has changed your life, you have a story to tell.
No one has a story like yours, and you may be the only one who can reach someone
else through telling your experience.
A story is just that, a true account of your own experience, and no one
can disagree with your experience.
It's not about theology, and it's not about how interesting or special you are.
It's all about Jesus.
So when you're ready to tell how Jesus has impacted your life, you can let Jesse
know at his ministry website, jesseduke.
net.
There you can download guidelines that will make it easy to
prepare to tell your story.
Thank you for listening today and Shalom.