1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,302 Welcome to the hot comfort food for middle America. I'm Heidi 2 00:00:08,318 --> 00:00:11,454 Heitkamp. And I'm Joel Heitkamp. This is an exciting 3 00:00:11,534 --> 00:00:15,374 episode. I'll be speaking with Marilyn Lands, a. Democrat 4 00:00:15,414 --> 00:00:18,814 who just won a special election to the Alabama legislature. 5 00:00:18,934 --> 00:00:22,206 Yep, that's right. A Democrat was elected in 6 00:00:22,270 --> 00:00:26,070 Alabama. There is hope today we're going to find out how she 7 00:00:26,102 --> 00:00:29,554 did it, so stay tuned. Then Joel and I will discuss women's 8 00:00:29,594 --> 00:00:33,402 autonomy and freedom from a generation that remembers how the original 9 00:00:33,458 --> 00:00:37,018 Roe v. Wade decision created more autonomy for women. 10 00:00:37,186 --> 00:00:40,778 But first, I want to share something special with you. One 11 00:00:40,826 --> 00:00:44,482 country board member and Iowa state representative JD 12 00:00:44,538 --> 00:00:48,290 Shulkin recently read the book White Rural 13 00:00:48,362 --> 00:00:52,010 rage, and he has a bone or two to pick with the authors. He 14 00:00:52,042 --> 00:00:55,506 expressed his thoughts in an editorial published in the Hill, 15 00:00:55,650 --> 00:00:59,034 a Washington, DC publication covering Congress. 16 00:00:59,194 --> 00:01:02,930 But we thought it would be great for all of you listeners outside the 17 00:01:02,962 --> 00:01:05,814 nation's capital to hear what he had to say. 18 00:01:08,714 --> 00:01:12,554 White Rural rage is a book version of a clickbait article written by 19 00:01:12,594 --> 00:01:16,122 two people who don't seem to engage with rural Americans regularly 20 00:01:16,218 --> 00:01:19,922 and who used other people's data to come up with their conclusions about 21 00:01:19,978 --> 00:01:23,434 why rural americans lean right. I'm not an academic or 22 00:01:23,474 --> 00:01:27,298 journalist like the two authors, but I am the only Democrat at the state 23 00:01:27,346 --> 00:01:30,882 level or higher amongst 32 counties in northwest Iowa 24 00:01:30,978 --> 00:01:34,794 and someone who ran for Congress in 2018 in a district Trump won by 25 00:01:34,834 --> 00:01:38,586 27 in 2016, and I only lost by three points. 26 00:01:38,770 --> 00:01:42,178 The one thing they failed to mention is the lack of investment by the Democratic 27 00:01:42,226 --> 00:01:46,034 Party campaigns and adjacent groups in connecting with rural 28 00:01:46,074 --> 00:01:49,476 voters, according to ruralorganizing.org study. 29 00:01:49,610 --> 00:01:53,336 With open secrets for every dollar a Democrat running for 30 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,912 federal office spends in rural areas, Republicans spend 31 00:01:56,968 --> 00:02:00,760 14. While 30% of Americans and 20% of 32 00:02:00,792 --> 00:02:04,616 registered voters live in rural areas, barely 3% of 33 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:08,272 Democrat affiliated expenditures occur in these areas, 34 00:02:08,408 --> 00:02:11,888 a clear lack of priority given to cultivating world 35 00:02:11,936 --> 00:02:15,488 champions. Media has changed. The 1996 36 00:02:15,536 --> 00:02:19,174 Telecommunications act allowed media companies to buy up stations 37 00:02:19,254 --> 00:02:22,462 at the cost of local news. Combine that with the miss and 38 00:02:22,518 --> 00:02:25,910 disinformation on social media and the algorithms that amplify 39 00:02:25,982 --> 00:02:29,434 them, and you give conservative messaging a channel to success. 40 00:02:29,934 --> 00:02:33,718 Radio stations that used to play AP News now provide 41 00:02:33,846 --> 00:02:37,470 hours of right wing propaganda a day, leading to voters hearing 42 00:02:37,542 --> 00:02:41,390 one side disproportionately far right wing politicians are able 43 00:02:41,422 --> 00:02:45,270 to push their personal agenda in a lot of these deeply read and 44 00:02:45,302 --> 00:02:48,906 rural districts. We saw that firsthand in northwest Iowa with former 45 00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:52,722 representative Steve King. In many ways, he was ahead of his time when it 46 00:02:52,738 --> 00:02:56,426 came to the modern far right wing with his racism and xenophobic 47 00:02:56,490 --> 00:03:00,074 rhetoric and actions. I would also give credit to the northwest 48 00:03:00,114 --> 00:03:03,570 Iowa voters for being ahead of their time for voting him out of 49 00:03:03,602 --> 00:03:07,442 office. What makes these right wing messages resonate with many 50 00:03:07,498 --> 00:03:10,494 rural voters has to do with economic concentration. 51 00:03:10,834 --> 00:03:14,510 Independent farmers are few and far between, with nearly every sector 52 00:03:14,542 --> 00:03:17,870 of agriculture consolidated, just a few multinational 53 00:03:17,902 --> 00:03:21,526 corporations squeeze the average farmer from the input side, and on the 54 00:03:21,550 --> 00:03:25,230 market side, wealth gets extracted by dollar generals 55 00:03:25,262 --> 00:03:29,038 or hospitals or multinational ag corporations with little 56 00:03:29,086 --> 00:03:32,630 money invested into these communities when it comes to new 57 00:03:32,662 --> 00:03:36,166 wealth, as of just a few years ago, 80% of venture capital 58 00:03:36,310 --> 00:03:40,054 was invested in only 50 counties in our country, out of nearly 59 00:03:40,094 --> 00:03:43,788 3100. A lack of opportunity is eroding rural 60 00:03:43,836 --> 00:03:47,404 communities and sowing understandable discontent, 61 00:03:47,564 --> 00:03:51,244 discontent that republicans point in the wrong direction. For 62 00:03:51,284 --> 00:03:54,284 years I've talked to farmers who will always vote for me and some who will 63 00:03:54,324 --> 00:03:57,956 never vote for me, and everywhere in between, and not one of them pushed back 64 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:01,796 when I talked about egg monopolies screwing them over. When I first ran 65 00:04:01,820 --> 00:04:05,508 for office, farmers were going through five consecutive years of low commodity 66 00:04:05,556 --> 00:04:09,320 prices. But do you know what the number one complaint was? It was the 67 00:04:09,352 --> 00:04:13,096 lack of affordable health care. It's not all hogwash. What 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,416 the book got right is the power the rural vote has in this 69 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,896 country. When it comes to the electoral college, the Senate, and the 70 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,688 judicial branch of government, rural voters have an enormous voice. 71 00:04:23,856 --> 00:04:27,640 It was rural voters in Saskatchewan that led the way for universal health 72 00:04:27,672 --> 00:04:31,264 care in Canada. Rural voters in America have that same 73 00:04:31,304 --> 00:04:34,846 power to create change. The right has spent decades 74 00:04:34,910 --> 00:04:38,334 investing in that power, planting seeds of fear that are sowing 75 00:04:38,374 --> 00:04:42,062 division. If the left wants to win, or at least the very 76 00:04:42,118 --> 00:04:45,894 least gain ground, we need to invest in rural Americans and make sure our 77 00:04:45,934 --> 00:04:49,154 common interests benefiting rural regions are heard. 78 00:04:55,134 --> 00:04:58,398 Today, I am thrilled to have with me Marilyn 79 00:04:58,446 --> 00:05:01,838 Lands, probably not a household 80 00:05:01,926 --> 00:05:05,702 name in the political world until a couple 81 00:05:05,758 --> 00:05:09,350 weeks ago, when she really shocked so many people in 82 00:05:09,382 --> 00:05:13,070 politics by winning a house race in 83 00:05:13,102 --> 00:05:16,614 a fairly red district in Alabama, of all 84 00:05:16,654 --> 00:05:20,462 places, and winning that house race on the issue of 85 00:05:20,518 --> 00:05:24,254 choice, on the issue of women's reproductive rights. And so, 86 00:05:24,334 --> 00:05:28,182 Marilyn, welcome to the podcast. And before 87 00:05:28,278 --> 00:05:31,654 we get into this race, if you could give us a little bit of your 88 00:05:31,694 --> 00:05:35,198 political history, because I think some, some people think people like you just 89 00:05:35,246 --> 00:05:38,806 land and oh, here I am. And that's definitely 90 00:05:38,870 --> 00:05:42,510 not your story or your history. Yes. So I actually 91 00:05:42,582 --> 00:05:46,334 ran in 2022, and we came very close to winning 92 00:05:46,374 --> 00:05:49,982 then. In fact, we were the closest to flipping a house 93 00:05:50,038 --> 00:05:53,886 seat in the entire state. And I think we had 94 00:05:53,910 --> 00:05:57,230 a lot of momentum going into this campaign, but the 95 00:05:57,262 --> 00:06:00,814 landscape changed so much. Even during that first race 96 00:06:00,934 --> 00:06:04,430 in 2022, when we developed our 97 00:06:04,462 --> 00:06:08,110 messaging and our platform, we hadn't had 98 00:06:08,142 --> 00:06:11,950 Dobbs yet, and so it wasn't even on, 99 00:06:12,062 --> 00:06:15,854 you know, our talking points. And then when the Dobbs decision was handed 100 00:06:15,894 --> 00:06:19,574 down and Alabama pulled our trigger law, which then other states 101 00:06:19,694 --> 00:06:23,206 followed, of course, it became a major 102 00:06:23,270 --> 00:06:26,870 theme in that campaign. And then this time around, it 103 00:06:26,902 --> 00:06:30,310 was very much different, because I shared my 104 00:06:30,382 --> 00:06:34,136 story, and I think that really resonated with people. 105 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,824 You did something that I think a lot of people didn't think was 106 00:06:37,864 --> 00:06:41,160 possible. You told stories of late term 107 00:06:41,312 --> 00:06:45,000 terminations that were essential for the health of the mother. 108 00:06:45,152 --> 00:06:48,840 And that resonated as well. Exactly. I felt 109 00:06:48,872 --> 00:06:52,576 that there was a completely different energy in this campaign from 110 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,904 the very beginning. And I think it is because we told 111 00:06:55,984 --> 00:06:59,556 stories. I would have women come up and hug me 112 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:03,260 when I knocked doors or even at the grocery store. And I 113 00:07:03,292 --> 00:07:06,620 had many women and families share their own stories of 114 00:07:06,652 --> 00:07:10,444 heartbreak with me. And I think many of them told 115 00:07:10,484 --> 00:07:13,972 me that they hadn't talked about this in 116 00:07:14,028 --> 00:07:17,684 30 years, or they hadn't told anyone ever, except for their 117 00:07:17,724 --> 00:07:21,396 immediate family. And so the campaign felt very personal 118 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:25,340 right from the beginning, and it felt very reciprocal. It wasn't 119 00:07:25,412 --> 00:07:28,836 me just trying to sell myself. It was having these 120 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:32,508 honest conversations around issues of 121 00:07:32,556 --> 00:07:36,356 grief. So I chose to share my story. And 122 00:07:36,380 --> 00:07:40,224 for me, it was such a moment. And I'll tell you how it happened. 123 00:07:40,844 --> 00:07:44,532 I saw the Diane Sawyer special on the brink, where she profiled 124 00:07:44,588 --> 00:07:48,316 16 women from around the country, but mostly in the south, 125 00:07:48,500 --> 00:07:52,132 who were caught up in this abortion ban and 126 00:07:52,228 --> 00:07:55,980 having to go outside of state and travel many miles to get 127 00:07:56,012 --> 00:07:59,532 health care. And some of the stories were just horrific. Women 128 00:07:59,588 --> 00:08:03,380 whose fetuses had died inside them and were getting 129 00:08:03,452 --> 00:08:07,172 septic and organs were shutting down. And one 130 00:08:07,188 --> 00:08:11,028 of the women in this story, Alyssa Gonzalez, was the only woman from 131 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:14,652 Alabama, a very young woman. And her story was so 132 00:08:14,708 --> 00:08:18,540 powerful. Her husband also spoke and kind of spoke on behalf of the 133 00:08:18,572 --> 00:08:22,276 husbands. And Alyssa and I stories 134 00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:26,086 had such parallels. We both were expecting 135 00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:29,886 second sons. We both had a genetic defect known 136 00:08:29,910 --> 00:08:33,374 as trisomy. Both of us were told that the 137 00:08:33,494 --> 00:08:37,286 pregnancies were absolutely not viable. It was 100% 138 00:08:37,390 --> 00:08:41,234 catastrophic that our lives were at risk. 139 00:08:41,854 --> 00:08:45,614 And so it was just the intersection of 140 00:08:45,654 --> 00:08:49,078 these two stories and then the fact that there was this key 141 00:08:49,126 --> 00:08:52,966 difference, and that 20 years later, Alyssa could not get the healthcare 142 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:56,778 that she needed in her home. I was able to have my own 143 00:08:56,826 --> 00:09:00,306 doctor and my hospital and my community 144 00:09:00,410 --> 00:09:04,058 around me. And Alyssa had to travel over 500 145 00:09:04,106 --> 00:09:07,266 miles. I know she's not ever been out of the south. I'm not sure if 146 00:09:07,290 --> 00:09:11,082 she's ever been out of the state of Alabama. It was a very scary 147 00:09:11,218 --> 00:09:14,730 trip for her and her family, and a very devastating one in many 148 00:09:14,762 --> 00:09:18,546 ways. I mean, she's in shock and grief. And 149 00:09:18,650 --> 00:09:21,254 it just, to me, that became the story, 150 00:09:22,194 --> 00:09:25,946 that difference and how we've gone backwards, and we're supposed to 151 00:09:25,970 --> 00:09:29,658 be moving forward. This is not the way that history is supposed 152 00:09:29,706 --> 00:09:33,426 to work. We're supposed to advance and make progress. And here 153 00:09:33,450 --> 00:09:37,050 we've just taken this huge step backwards for women. 154 00:09:37,122 --> 00:09:40,874 And being of a certain age, I've seen women make 155 00:09:40,914 --> 00:09:44,294 great strides, and it just feels so 156 00:09:44,994 --> 00:09:48,414 terrible to be moving backwards in this way. 157 00:09:49,354 --> 00:09:53,050 I think a lot of people, when they think about what happened in 158 00:09:53,082 --> 00:09:56,834 Alabama, the big news out of Alabama was the decision 159 00:09:56,954 --> 00:10:00,202 on your personhood constitutional amendment that 160 00:10:00,258 --> 00:10:03,714 resulted in a huge uncertainty 161 00:10:03,794 --> 00:10:07,634 revolving around IVF. And IVF is a procedure that 162 00:10:07,674 --> 00:10:10,894 a lot of people use. It's not normally been 163 00:10:11,914 --> 00:10:15,538 in the mainstream of discussion about women's reproductive 164 00:10:15,586 --> 00:10:18,784 rights or reproductive freedom. 165 00:10:19,204 --> 00:10:22,332 When you analyze kind of abortion 166 00:10:22,388 --> 00:10:26,044 politics over a long period of time, I think that there 167 00:10:26,084 --> 00:10:29,704 has always been the story of 168 00:10:30,044 --> 00:10:33,644 people in your circumstance, Marilyn and her 169 00:10:33,684 --> 00:10:37,364 circumstance. That story is never told. The story was 170 00:10:37,404 --> 00:10:41,076 always, oh, look at this selfish woman who couldn't make up 171 00:10:41,100 --> 00:10:44,166 their mind, who now just wants to have a 172 00:10:44,190 --> 00:10:48,038 procedure, and it's late term, and it's all 173 00:10:48,126 --> 00:10:51,814 elective and has nothing to do with the health of the mother. And 174 00:10:51,854 --> 00:10:55,678 that's really kind of the narrative. You know, what? Why is it in 175 00:10:55,686 --> 00:10:59,382 the United States of America, women have to tell the most intimate 176 00:10:59,478 --> 00:11:02,714 details, the most intimate, personal, 177 00:11:03,254 --> 00:11:06,894 horrible, like, reliving it details 178 00:11:07,014 --> 00:11:10,526 in order to protect other women. That's what we're doing right now. 179 00:11:10,590 --> 00:11:13,934 And I just want to applaud you for telling this story. 180 00:11:14,054 --> 00:11:17,814 Applaud her for telling her story, because it takes a lot of 181 00:11:17,854 --> 00:11:21,398 courage, but it shouldn't be necessary. People should 182 00:11:21,446 --> 00:11:25,086 trust women and their doctors to be making this decision. And 183 00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:28,654 so you have given us a lot of hope, Marilyn, 184 00:11:28,774 --> 00:11:32,254 that we won't have to expose women who 185 00:11:32,374 --> 00:11:36,110 have had this life experience to the political process, 186 00:11:36,222 --> 00:11:39,830 that people have a much better understanding 187 00:11:39,862 --> 00:11:43,508 now. I also felt that often we don't 188 00:11:43,556 --> 00:11:47,220 think enough about the husbands and the fact that it is also 189 00:11:47,292 --> 00:11:51,044 a grief for them and the other children involved. And that was 190 00:11:51,084 --> 00:11:54,636 one of the things that was really central to my mind, is 191 00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:58,652 what will this do to my other child? You 192 00:11:58,668 --> 00:12:02,516 know, the longer that we carry this pregnancy, and if 193 00:12:02,540 --> 00:12:06,244 we did carry it to the end, what would that be like 194 00:12:06,284 --> 00:12:09,624 for him to know his mother gave birth to a dead baby 195 00:12:10,564 --> 00:12:13,824 and that the brother that was supposed to be coming, 196 00:12:14,644 --> 00:12:17,784 you know, how would he, in his young mind, he 197 00:12:18,444 --> 00:12:21,932 would have been five at the time. You know, how would that impact him in 198 00:12:21,948 --> 00:12:25,652 the long run? I think sometimes people don't think about that. So it's 199 00:12:25,708 --> 00:12:29,516 not just a woman's issue, but it is, as you said, it's 200 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:32,980 a very intimate thing that happens to women and 201 00:12:33,012 --> 00:12:36,548 women's bodies. And I think there's a lot 202 00:12:36,596 --> 00:12:40,146 of mystery around that. And I think telling the 203 00:12:40,170 --> 00:12:43,954 stories has been healthy. When I able to hear 204 00:12:43,994 --> 00:12:47,626 from other women, I think it's been a cathartic thing for a lot of people 205 00:12:47,690 --> 00:12:51,386 to be able to say things that, as you said, they've been ashamed of 206 00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:55,266 and made to feel ashamed of for no reason. There shouldn't be 207 00:12:55,290 --> 00:12:58,722 any shame about this. It was a hard, hard decision to make. 208 00:12:58,778 --> 00:13:02,482 Nobody wants to make that kind of decision, but it was absolutely 209 00:13:02,538 --> 00:13:06,200 the right decision to make. The IVF 210 00:13:06,312 --> 00:13:09,856 decision actually awakened America to 211 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,704 what personhood bills and constitutional 212 00:13:13,744 --> 00:13:16,952 measures could potentially mean. How is 213 00:13:17,008 --> 00:13:20,168 the community and the healthcare 214 00:13:20,256 --> 00:13:24,056 industry responding to the new legislation in 215 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,040 Alabama regarding IVF? And do you see 216 00:13:28,152 --> 00:13:31,414 any additional reaction, 217 00:13:31,534 --> 00:13:35,310 legislative reaction to that decision as well? Well, 218 00:13:35,342 --> 00:13:39,166 I think the legislation that was passed to try to be a 219 00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:42,902 workaround is simply not enough. Our mobile 220 00:13:42,958 --> 00:13:45,994 clinic is not going to continue services. 221 00:13:46,974 --> 00:13:50,790 I've heard from families that were planning 222 00:13:50,822 --> 00:13:54,374 to move to Alabama had a job offer here, and now they're not 223 00:13:54,414 --> 00:13:57,868 coming because Alabama doesn't appear to be family 224 00:13:57,956 --> 00:14:01,604 friendly. And I can understand that we don't look family 225 00:14:01,684 --> 00:14:05,012 friendly. So I think there's a lot of 226 00:14:05,068 --> 00:14:08,700 unintended consequences. I think people haven't thought through 227 00:14:08,852 --> 00:14:12,372 the economic development that the impact on jobs, the 228 00:14:12,428 --> 00:14:15,732 impact on the state's reputation. But I did 229 00:14:15,788 --> 00:14:19,628 see, while we saw a lot of energy around 230 00:14:19,676 --> 00:14:23,372 the abortion issue, I would say the IVF issue 231 00:14:23,428 --> 00:14:27,068 kind of brought it to another level. But we certainly have to do 232 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:30,622 more and very concerned now. This is a slippery 233 00:14:30,678 --> 00:14:34,158 slope that contraception will be next. And 234 00:14:34,286 --> 00:14:37,254 leader Daniels, our minority leader, has put forth some 235 00:14:37,294 --> 00:14:40,870 legislation that's in committee but will be introduced, the 236 00:14:40,902 --> 00:14:44,494 Alabama right to Contraception act. So we're 237 00:14:44,534 --> 00:14:48,270 looking at getting behind that. But I think there's a lot that 238 00:14:48,302 --> 00:14:52,094 we're going to have to do to undo all of this and make Alabama family 239 00:14:52,174 --> 00:14:55,616 friendly and make it a place where 240 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:59,456 women feel like they have freedom. I felt like Alabama 241 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,360 has been ground zero for attacks on women's freedom 242 00:15:03,392 --> 00:15:07,056 and reproductive health care. And it just seems to 243 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,808 get worse. When you consider the 244 00:15:10,856 --> 00:15:14,604 IVF issue. And I think 245 00:15:15,184 --> 00:15:18,800 what has maybe brought it so much into the 246 00:15:18,832 --> 00:15:22,354 forefront is the explosion of the use of this procedure. 247 00:15:22,504 --> 00:15:26,222 Women are waiting longer to have children. I would argue a 248 00:15:26,238 --> 00:15:30,022 lot of that is driven by healthcare costs, not selfishness. But, you 249 00:15:30,038 --> 00:15:33,150 know, they have, they want to be able to afford to have children, and that's 250 00:15:33,182 --> 00:15:36,694 an expensive proposition in today's world when you can't find 251 00:15:36,734 --> 00:15:40,354 daycare. And what is particularly 252 00:15:41,054 --> 00:15:44,606 egregious to me about what Alabama has done is 253 00:15:44,750 --> 00:15:48,534 if you're wealthy in Alabama, you can go someplace else and 254 00:15:48,574 --> 00:15:52,166 add that extra, you know, thousands of dollars for 255 00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:56,078 securing this procedure in a state that is more family friendly than 256 00:15:56,126 --> 00:15:59,614 Alabama. But if you're poor and you've been saving so much 257 00:15:59,654 --> 00:16:03,286 money and you're so excited to have an opportunity 258 00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:06,734 to have a child, now all of a sudden you have added 259 00:16:06,814 --> 00:16:10,542 outrageous amounts of expense to an already really 260 00:16:10,638 --> 00:16:14,438 expensive procedure. And so this is not just about health care. 261 00:16:14,486 --> 00:16:18,240 This is an economic justice issue. I think so. And I've 262 00:16:18,272 --> 00:16:22,024 been making an economic wellbeing argument for a long time now, 263 00:16:22,064 --> 00:16:25,760 because where I'm from in north Alabama, we truly excel 264 00:16:25,832 --> 00:16:29,536 at economic development, but we do not have economic well 265 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,352 being for all of our people. We have many, many people who 266 00:16:33,368 --> 00:16:36,592 are struggling. Alabama has the worst 267 00:16:36,688 --> 00:16:40,124 maternal mortality rate in the entire country. 268 00:16:40,464 --> 00:16:43,524 We have lost so many of our rural hospitals. 269 00:16:44,034 --> 00:16:47,810 So I think there's so much around all of this, and particularly 270 00:16:47,842 --> 00:16:51,682 the unintended consequences that do unduly 271 00:16:51,738 --> 00:16:55,254 affect the least of us in this state. 272 00:16:55,554 --> 00:16:59,298 And I think we don't take 273 00:16:59,346 --> 00:17:02,762 into account that women's health care 274 00:17:02,818 --> 00:17:06,650 decisions largely have to do with privilege. I 275 00:17:06,682 --> 00:17:10,498 couldn't have said it any better. And I want to just turn and 276 00:17:10,546 --> 00:17:14,279 ask you about, you know, you're a scrapper, 277 00:17:14,311 --> 00:17:18,055 you're a fighter. You haven't yet. You know, you've been willing to put your 278 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,815 name on the ballot at least twice in a state where no 279 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:25,215 one thought anyone with your profile or your 280 00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:28,927 policies and your heart could 281 00:17:29,055 --> 00:17:32,163 make it. Now you're there. So tell. 282 00:17:32,983 --> 00:17:36,663 So spend a little time telling us, are you glad you got the 283 00:17:36,703 --> 00:17:40,351 job? Or is it what's been the joy and 284 00:17:40,367 --> 00:17:43,988 what's been the challenge? I am very glad to be 285 00:17:44,036 --> 00:17:47,484 here, and this is my third week now. It's been 286 00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:50,916 exciting, and it's definitely got a steep learning 287 00:17:50,980 --> 00:17:54,724 curve. I have 102 other colleagues 288 00:17:54,764 --> 00:17:58,604 at the moment plus staffers. And then there's the Senate side of things. It's 289 00:17:58,644 --> 00:18:02,308 a lot of names and faces to put together and just 290 00:18:02,356 --> 00:18:06,124 even finding my way around in the buildings. But I've been 291 00:18:06,164 --> 00:18:09,024 enjoying it. People have been really welcoming. 292 00:18:09,904 --> 00:18:13,560 I'm glad to be here. I'm excited. I think one of the things that has 293 00:18:13,592 --> 00:18:16,944 bolstered me the most is how many people tell me that 294 00:18:17,104 --> 00:18:20,832 our race has given them hope and that they have, for the first 295 00:18:20,888 --> 00:18:23,928 time in a long time, they have some hope in 296 00:18:23,976 --> 00:18:27,664 Alabama. And I really want to focus on building 297 00:18:27,744 --> 00:18:31,576 relationships here and getting to know my colleagues, focusing on what we 298 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:35,368 have in common, because we are all human beings living 299 00:18:35,416 --> 00:18:39,264 on this planet, sharing a common human experience, and we 300 00:18:39,304 --> 00:18:43,000 all have joys and we all have sorrows. So I'm trying to meet 301 00:18:43,032 --> 00:18:46,480 people where they are, get to know them and listen to 302 00:18:46,512 --> 00:18:50,296 them. Our son took debate in high school, and I think that was formative 303 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:54,200 for our whole family because I really do want to understand where 304 00:18:54,232 --> 00:18:57,880 people are coming from and understand their perspective and their 305 00:18:57,912 --> 00:19:01,520 take on an issue. So I'm looking forward to 306 00:19:01,632 --> 00:19:05,176 getting to know my colleagues and to working together and try to build 307 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:09,024 bipartisan support where we can. Marilyn, when do you 308 00:19:09,064 --> 00:19:12,744 have to run for reelection? I will run for reelection in 309 00:19:12,784 --> 00:19:16,244 2026. So my term here, I came in 310 00:19:16,984 --> 00:19:20,816 in the halfway through the second of a four 311 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,584 year term. Terrific. And I know that you have inspired 312 00:19:24,664 --> 00:19:28,392 not just women in Alabama, but women all across, I 313 00:19:28,408 --> 00:19:31,764 mean, all across the country and probably the world. 314 00:19:32,184 --> 00:19:35,790 How does it feel to go from a 315 00:19:35,822 --> 00:19:39,550 scrapper in a tough district in Alabama to being 316 00:19:39,622 --> 00:19:43,206 a national icon? Well, I have difficulty thinking of 317 00:19:43,230 --> 00:19:46,710 myself as an icon, that's for sure. It has been 318 00:19:46,862 --> 00:19:50,606 Mister Toad's wild ride, that's for sure. And 319 00:19:50,750 --> 00:19:54,478 I just do hope I can provide some hope and inspiration. 320 00:19:54,566 --> 00:19:58,398 I really want to inspire more women, more democrats 321 00:19:58,486 --> 00:20:02,208 in general to run for office. I want to inspire 322 00:20:02,256 --> 00:20:05,936 people to vote. All of our elections are 323 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,512 important, and sometimes we all get hyper focused on the national 324 00:20:09,608 --> 00:20:13,216 level. But state and local issues are really where 325 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:17,104 it meets our daily lives and what really impacts us the 326 00:20:17,144 --> 00:20:20,504 most. And I also want to encourage people to get involved at 327 00:20:20,544 --> 00:20:24,024 whatever level. There are all kinds of commissions 328 00:20:24,104 --> 00:20:27,554 and appointments out there to get you involved in 329 00:20:27,664 --> 00:20:31,374 local government or school boards, but I think it's time for us 330 00:20:31,414 --> 00:20:35,174 all to step up where we can and make a difference. Well, 331 00:20:35,214 --> 00:20:38,910 as someone who has spent the better part of their career encouraging 332 00:20:38,982 --> 00:20:42,606 people like you to run for office, I can't 333 00:20:42,670 --> 00:20:46,142 tell you how much I think you are just such a 334 00:20:46,198 --> 00:20:49,894 symbol. Of hope for so many people. I do believe that all 335 00:20:49,934 --> 00:20:53,446 things work together for good. It was hard, hard losing in 336 00:20:53,470 --> 00:20:57,032 2022, but you never know where the world will take 337 00:20:57,088 --> 00:21:00,936 you. And so we are here, and I'm talking with you today, Heidi, 338 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,320 and I've admired you for a long time, so this is a treat for me. 339 00:21:04,432 --> 00:21:08,088 Marilyn, thank you. Thank you for telling your personal, very private 340 00:21:08,176 --> 00:21:11,880 story. Thanks to the people of your district who sent 341 00:21:11,912 --> 00:21:15,264 a message that I hope will resonate not just across 342 00:21:15,344 --> 00:21:18,848 Alabama but across the country, that sometimes what 343 00:21:18,896 --> 00:21:22,704 happens to people is pretty complicated, and 344 00:21:22,824 --> 00:21:26,296 a lot of times it's none of their business. Very well said. 345 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,804 Very well said. 346 00:21:33,104 --> 00:21:34,884 Heidi and Joel Banter. 347 00:21:40,144 --> 00:21:43,872 You know, Joel, it's interesting, and I want to talk 348 00:21:43,928 --> 00:21:47,448 about just for a minute, the politics of abortion, 349 00:21:47,616 --> 00:21:51,384 because there's a lot of talk about what's going to happen in this next election. 350 00:21:51,464 --> 00:21:54,444 A lot of focus on foreign policy 351 00:21:54,864 --> 00:21:58,328 challenges that the president has, a lot of challenges 352 00:21:58,416 --> 00:22:01,976 on what's happening with the economy. But the issue 353 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,664 that keeps coming up and shocking, I think, 354 00:22:05,824 --> 00:22:09,364 America, is the issue of abortion. 355 00:22:09,744 --> 00:22:13,360 Now. We see beyond what happened in Kansas, beyond what 356 00:22:13,392 --> 00:22:16,760 happened in Ohio with the reaffirming of a woman's right to 357 00:22:16,792 --> 00:22:20,352 choose. We see this narrative playing out 358 00:22:20,408 --> 00:22:23,456 politically in the deep red state of 359 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,000 Alabama. And I think it's fascinating. See, and I think 360 00:22:27,032 --> 00:22:30,640 that people are just taking for granted what your generation 361 00:22:30,712 --> 00:22:34,376 did. They did for years, and now it's gone. Right? I mean, 362 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,360 you know, women got active and they got the 363 00:22:38,392 --> 00:22:42,024 right for women to choose. You know, they've got that right for women 364 00:22:42,144 --> 00:22:45,744 when it comes to their healthcare. And, you know, people just took it for granted 365 00:22:45,784 --> 00:22:49,402 that my daughters did. And, and quite frankly, their daughters 366 00:22:49,458 --> 00:22:52,954 aren't too far away from this potentially being an issue. And 367 00:22:52,994 --> 00:22:56,818 so if everyone thinks that this isn't playing out in red 368 00:22:56,866 --> 00:23:00,578 states, I think you're being incredibly naive, because in North 369 00:23:00,626 --> 00:23:03,962 Dakota, the state I live in, in South Dakota, the state I live close 370 00:23:04,018 --> 00:23:07,738 to, if those things were on the ballot, I'd bet you my last 371 00:23:07,786 --> 00:23:11,570 $20 that the right for a woman to choose would pass. Oh, I think 372 00:23:11,602 --> 00:23:15,298 that's right. You know, we rejected a personhood bill, but, you know, 373 00:23:15,346 --> 00:23:19,010 that's what's in play in Alabama with the IVF. They actually 374 00:23:19,082 --> 00:23:22,930 passed a personhood bill, and all of that was okay as long 375 00:23:22,962 --> 00:23:26,746 as it was basically illegal to implement it. Now, 376 00:23:26,850 --> 00:23:30,434 I think on top of what you're saying about that taking 377 00:23:30,514 --> 00:23:33,494 something away, you also have the complicating 378 00:23:33,954 --> 00:23:36,994 factors of how difficult 379 00:23:37,154 --> 00:23:40,994 medically this is. You know, because there's just all of the discussion 380 00:23:41,034 --> 00:23:44,434 has been on late term abortions, like, as if they were 381 00:23:44,474 --> 00:23:48,088 elective procedures. And now they're finding out 382 00:23:48,216 --> 00:23:51,976 these are procedures that are medically necessary. They 383 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,624 may not involve the life of the woman, but they could affect her 384 00:23:55,664 --> 00:23:59,416 fertility going forward and certainly her mental health. And 385 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,216 so now, all of a sudden, this very uncomplicated issue. Are 386 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,520 you. Are you right to life, or are you pro choice? Do you believe in 387 00:24:06,552 --> 00:24:09,344 protecting the unborn? It has gotten so 388 00:24:09,464 --> 00:24:13,188 complicated in the United States as this 389 00:24:13,236 --> 00:24:16,988 plays out. And I think that complication has really 390 00:24:17,076 --> 00:24:20,716 added to a lot of the feeling that 391 00:24:20,860 --> 00:24:24,156 maybe this has gone too far, and you see it with the IVF 392 00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:27,884 decision, but also a bigger discussion in states 393 00:24:27,924 --> 00:24:31,380 like Texas about the access to late 394 00:24:31,452 --> 00:24:34,980 term. It's interesting. I was listening 395 00:24:35,012 --> 00:24:38,084 to one of the women from Alabama who still provides 396 00:24:38,124 --> 00:24:41,564 reproductive services, obviously not abortions, 397 00:24:41,724 --> 00:24:45,100 but she was saying that many of the hospitals now, if it's 398 00:24:45,132 --> 00:24:48,972 a fetus that is not viable, that they're forcing 399 00:24:49,028 --> 00:24:52,748 women to have c sections to prove that they tried to have a live 400 00:24:52,796 --> 00:24:56,580 birth. Well, and I think the conservatives forgot to call Mike Pence. I know he's 401 00:24:56,612 --> 00:25:00,412 not their hero after he certified the election or actually allowed it to 402 00:25:00,428 --> 00:25:04,148 go forward, but, you know, his family had children through 403 00:25:04,196 --> 00:25:07,780 in vitro, and, you know, our family had children 404 00:25:07,852 --> 00:25:11,120 through in vitro. And the reality is, the 405 00:25:11,152 --> 00:25:14,400 conservatives are so conservative in the middle of this country that the 406 00:25:14,432 --> 00:25:17,688 legislation they've put forward and actually are even 407 00:25:17,736 --> 00:25:21,552 proposing more make in vitro illegal. And in 408 00:25:21,568 --> 00:25:25,240 the state I live, the policy that's put forward by 409 00:25:25,272 --> 00:25:29,120 the republican party actually calls them out as 410 00:25:29,152 --> 00:25:32,760 being murderers. And this is gonna play out as the election 411 00:25:32,912 --> 00:25:36,720 continues. But for a lot of people, they think, oh, well, it's all about 412 00:25:36,752 --> 00:25:40,292 the economy. You know, as James Carville famously said, it's the 413 00:25:40,308 --> 00:25:43,836 economy, stupid. Guess what? For a lot of women in this country, 414 00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:47,708 it's their autonomy that is on the ballot, and they are 415 00:25:47,756 --> 00:25:51,476 definitely voting. Their desire to continue 416 00:25:51,580 --> 00:25:55,396 to maintain their rights, to make decisions for themselves and 417 00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:59,156 their family. And so it's gonna be a major issue 418 00:25:59,220 --> 00:26:02,980 once again on the ballot. We saw it in Alabama. We saw it in Ohio. 419 00:26:03,092 --> 00:26:04,984 We're seeing it all across the country. 420 00:26:09,514 --> 00:26:13,138 In a bit of good news, we heard from a wonderful listener, 421 00:26:13,186 --> 00:26:16,818 Wendy, who is not from rural America. She's from urban 422 00:26:16,866 --> 00:26:20,602 America. But she said, I follow your podcast closely. 423 00:26:20,738 --> 00:26:24,546 She's a fan of Heidi's and now Joel's. I 424 00:26:24,570 --> 00:26:27,930 don't know why she would be a fan of yours, Joel. She likes the younger 425 00:26:27,962 --> 00:26:31,674 crowd, but go ahead. And she said, I'm aware 426 00:26:31,714 --> 00:26:35,402 of the problems associated with the lack of rural hospitals, easy 427 00:26:35,458 --> 00:26:38,874 access to higher education, out migration, and other 428 00:26:38,954 --> 00:26:42,114 issues facing rural America. But I'm not sure what 429 00:26:42,154 --> 00:26:45,938 Washington can do about these issues, especially since culture 430 00:26:45,986 --> 00:26:49,666 wars, not problem solving, seems to be the order of the day. And 431 00:26:49,690 --> 00:26:52,890 she'd love to hear our thoughts on this. What do you think, 432 00:26:52,922 --> 00:26:56,666 Joel? Well, I think that what they're going to do about 433 00:26:56,690 --> 00:27:00,442 it is nothing. I mean, they can't do anything because they 434 00:27:00,458 --> 00:27:04,306 don't want to do anything. The majority in the house is really not 435 00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:07,452 a majority. They don't like each other. They get up every day and they go 436 00:27:07,468 --> 00:27:11,180 to work, and they find ways not to work. And so I think. I think 437 00:27:11,212 --> 00:27:14,956 Wendy's right on in her concern. I really think it is. It's going to take 438 00:27:14,980 --> 00:27:18,812 an election to fix this, and in the middle of this country, 439 00:27:18,868 --> 00:27:22,428 we're still waiting for a farm bill. Well, but I also would 440 00:27:22,476 --> 00:27:26,260 add to what you've said, Joel, that it's going to take 441 00:27:26,332 --> 00:27:30,004 us seeing each other as interconnected, that it's 442 00:27:30,044 --> 00:27:33,704 not urban America, it's not rural America. This is the United States 443 00:27:33,744 --> 00:27:37,304 of America. And what happens in rural America has to be of 444 00:27:37,344 --> 00:27:41,152 concern to urban America and urban legislators. But 445 00:27:41,208 --> 00:27:44,896 the reverse is also true. And, Joel, you know, how many times have you 446 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,760 heard people say, well, we're somehow better in rural America. We're 447 00:27:48,792 --> 00:27:52,432 more moral. We're the real Americans. You 448 00:27:52,448 --> 00:27:56,272 know, that's not true, either. And so I think that one of 449 00:27:56,288 --> 00:28:00,114 the solutions to all of this is coming up with a 450 00:28:00,154 --> 00:28:03,842 common american identity and making sure 451 00:28:03,898 --> 00:28:07,298 that basic services like healthcare, 452 00:28:07,466 --> 00:28:11,294 like food security, like access to education, 453 00:28:11,634 --> 00:28:15,306 that we are just as concerned about what happens in 454 00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:18,930 rural America as we are in urban America and vice versa. 455 00:28:19,002 --> 00:28:22,730 Yeah. Well, we had sister Simone on, and she talked about how she 456 00:28:22,762 --> 00:28:26,466 traveled to all 50 states and is working towards connecting with 457 00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:29,906 all 50 states. And what she found out is that when she 458 00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:33,458 communicates with people and just sits down and talks to them, we're not that different. 459 00:28:33,626 --> 00:28:37,474 Right. We're not that different. But the difference is with 460 00:28:37,514 --> 00:28:41,282 all of us is we're not in Congress, you know? So going back to 461 00:28:41,298 --> 00:28:45,146 what wendy's saying is congressional leaders that we elect 462 00:28:45,290 --> 00:28:48,738 knowing that we're not that different need to get off their butt. Well, 463 00:28:48,786 --> 00:28:52,454 and the other thing is that if. If we continue to 464 00:28:52,494 --> 00:28:55,926 let the politicians divide us instead of uniting 465 00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:59,582 us, because it's always the fear of the other. Oh, look what's happened in that 466 00:28:59,638 --> 00:29:03,438 big city of Minneapolis. You know, I live part 467 00:29:03,486 --> 00:29:07,274 time in Chicago. And people say, oh, the streets of Chicago are 468 00:29:07,694 --> 00:29:11,150 riddled with horrible crime. And I'm like, I walk home at 469 00:29:11,182 --> 00:29:14,806 night. I go downtown Chicago. There's a lot of people 470 00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:18,448 still walking around, a lot of tourists still in town. And so I think 471 00:29:18,496 --> 00:29:22,264 this buying into the narrative of division 472 00:29:22,424 --> 00:29:26,056 is not what is going to solve our problems. Well, it's going to be solved 473 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,504 by people like Wendy, people like Wendy that care, that say, 474 00:29:29,544 --> 00:29:33,160 look, what can we do? What can get done? And by challenging their 475 00:29:33,192 --> 00:29:36,856 elected officials to do just that, instead of 476 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,376 just plummeting each other in these races, instead of 477 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,144 just doing the, I'm more this than you. How 478 00:29:44,184 --> 00:29:47,820 about, well, I will do this. You know, why 479 00:29:47,852 --> 00:29:51,540 couldn't that be a campaign pledge? Well, and the other, the 480 00:29:51,572 --> 00:29:54,980 other piece of this, not to toot the horn of the one country project, but 481 00:29:55,012 --> 00:29:58,404 I will. The one country project was designed 482 00:29:58,484 --> 00:30:01,948 exactly for that reason. I had a lot of people say, well, it's about rural 483 00:30:01,996 --> 00:30:05,780 America. You should call it the rural America project. I said, no, what 484 00:30:05,812 --> 00:30:09,380 I'm trying to get at is we are one country. We have to be 485 00:30:09,412 --> 00:30:12,618 concerned about each other across that kind of 486 00:30:12,666 --> 00:30:15,786 regional and population divide. 487 00:30:15,930 --> 00:30:19,586 And if we aren't able to see each other as Americans, we 488 00:30:19,610 --> 00:30:22,850 will continue to build the threat from within. And 489 00:30:22,882 --> 00:30:26,546 so we hope that what we accomplish at one country 490 00:30:26,610 --> 00:30:30,154 is coming up with some really good policy ideas, 491 00:30:30,274 --> 00:30:33,214 but also sharing the stories of rural America 492 00:30:33,514 --> 00:30:37,074 and pushing back a little bit on the narrative that somehow 493 00:30:37,114 --> 00:30:40,436 rural America is better than 494 00:30:40,620 --> 00:30:44,396 urban America. We're all Americans, and we all want basically 495 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:48,044 the same thing for our kids want a better life. We want good health care. 496 00:30:48,084 --> 00:30:51,876 We want good education. We want to keep our taxes low and make 497 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:55,716 sure that they're not wasted. These are not urban rural values. These 498 00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:59,300 are american values. Well, and Wendy's note to us 499 00:30:59,332 --> 00:31:03,140 shows that there's still hope out there. And I want you, the listeners of 500 00:31:03,172 --> 00:31:06,836 one country, to absolutely, positively know this. Even though 501 00:31:06,860 --> 00:31:10,332 Heidi and I have about as many cousins as you can possibly 502 00:31:10,388 --> 00:31:14,100 have, Wendy isn't one of them. We didn't ask her to write that in, 503 00:31:14,132 --> 00:31:15,944 even though we love the note. 504 00:31:18,804 --> 00:31:22,164 Yeah, no, she's not a cousin. Not that we know of, Wendy. 505 00:31:22,244 --> 00:31:25,544 But we can adopt you. You'd like our family. 506 00:31:27,964 --> 00:31:31,764 Well, listen, Joel, thanks again so much for joining us on 507 00:31:31,804 --> 00:31:35,430 one country. These are really important discussions, as 508 00:31:35,462 --> 00:31:39,230 Wendy points out, and I think that as we 509 00:31:39,262 --> 00:31:42,966 go forward, we'll be talking about more of the policy solutions. But 510 00:31:42,990 --> 00:31:46,494 to Joel's point, you can have all the really great ideas, but if you don't 511 00:31:46,534 --> 00:31:49,718 have a political will. If you don't elect the right people, it's not going to 512 00:31:49,726 --> 00:31:53,382 get done. So thank you so much for writing in, Wendy. 513 00:31:53,438 --> 00:31:56,454 And we hope that we manage to kind of answer your 514 00:31:56,494 --> 00:32:00,054 questions and encourage so many of you to email 515 00:32:00,134 --> 00:32:02,054 us at podcast 516 00:32:02,834 --> 00:32:06,562 neountountryproject.org dot and thank you. For joining us 517 00:32:06,578 --> 00:32:10,194 today on the hot Dish, which is brought to you by one 518 00:32:10,234 --> 00:32:14,042 country project and making sure the voices of the rest of 519 00:32:14,058 --> 00:32:15,834 us are heard in Washington. Learn 520 00:32:15,874 --> 00:32:19,666 more@onecountryproject.org dot and we'll 521 00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:23,218 be back. In two weeks with more hot dish comfort food for middle 522 00:32:23,266 --> 00:32:23,594 America.