Declan (00:00)
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Long Game, a Heated Rivalry podcast. My name is Declan, this is Selvin. And today we are finally looking into the Heated Rivalry book. So we are taking this a bit by bit. So we're going to do basically maybe four episodes on this in its entirety. And we'll go through the first eight chapters in this first part.

⁓ Now, we've been really excited for this, me in particular, because I already read these books before the TV show came out, but Selwyn hadn't. So there was so many stuff I was having to bite my tongue with because there is like things that you miss whenever you're not reading the books and the show sort of has to leave out. And so I was just so interested in how it was contrasting for me, but I needed to hear Selwyn's thoughts as well. So we can finally get those. But we'll just start with

Selvam, what are your general thoughts? Because you've read up to chapter eight so far, and then you've chosen to stop there so that we can, you know, do a proper flow for the podcast. What have you thought of these first few chapters?

Silvan (01:05)
Yeah, that's right. And for anyone who's following along and reading with us, know, so the first eight chapters basically cover episodes one and two from the TV show. So if you're just wondering like where we're at, that's where we're at. My general thoughts on what I've read so far is a question, actually. Is this book written better than Game Changer? Because I feel it is. However,

I feel like I'm biased because I like these two characters. And so I'm not sure. I'm on the fence.

Declan (01:43)
So from my personal experience, this book is better than Game Changers. I think it's a better written book. I still don't think it's her best written book. In terms of like where it ranks for me in this sort of series of sex books, this is like, I think it's like third, third best. So I think people have an idea of this book that's based on

the long game, the sixth book, the final book. And people read these two as a duology. And when you're doing it like that, it makes sense. But when you're reading this book on its own, I don't think it's as good. it's not ⁓ obviously the book itself in general is good and it's fun. And Ilya and Shane are really, really interesting characters and you can really get into it with them. And their love story is very sweet. And there's a real sense of longing and belonging and

It's all that good stuff, but in terms of writing quality, Rachel Reed gets better after this book. And I think the long game is her sort of perfecting Shane and Ilya's story. I find that whenever people read this book first, they're like, this is good, but it's not what I was expecting. And that was my general experience. But then as I read on and finished the long game, I was like, yeah, no, I can see that these two belong together. If that makes sense.

Silvan (03:08)
That's so interesting because even having finished Game Changer and moved on to Heated Rivalry, I'm like, this feels like a better written book. It feels like the pacing is better for me. And I'm conflicted because we were very critical about Game Changer and the comments prove that. And I love hearing other people's opposing views, of course, but I'm also biased because we love Ilya and Shane so much.

and I was wondering is my judgment of these two characters clouding my ability to be really objective about the writing here?

Declan (03:48)
that's a great question because I've never had to think of it that way because I read the books before I seen the show. ⁓ so I don't fully associate, Connor's story and Hudson Williams with these characters completely. Obviously now when I reread it, I do see them, but for some reason they still do feel like separate entities to me. ⁓ not in the same way that I talked about previously, like whenever I read the Hunger Games, I can only see Jennifer Lawrence, ⁓ with these books.

Whenever I went back and reread them, I wasn't experiencing that. I still have a different image in my head of a book and Shane Ilya. feel like they're slightly different. And maybe we'll get into that some. But. Yeah, it's interesting now that you feel that your sort of perspective on the book is a bit clouded because these characters, you associate them so strongly with the TV characters, which. I mean, controversially say are better written.

I do think that.

Silvan (04:49)
I can see that. I can see why you're saying that.

Declan (04:52)
So it could just be that, but I will go out and say that this is not the best book that's been written, even in the MM romance genre. It is still fun. It's still entertaining. And there's a reason why Jacob Tierney wanted to adapt it. there is good quality writing in this, but it's definitely not the best that Rachel Reid can do. We do find out that she can do a lot better as her series progresses.

and that she's more willing to introduce more complex themes and characters and in particular delve into mental health issues a lot more and free her characters and free their journey. So I feel like she's still finding her confidence in this book, though she has written some really, really fascinating characters and really, really fun character and relationship dynamics that make this book enjoyable regardless.

Silvan (05:46)
And as you were talking, I was sort of getting excited about reading the rest of the series because in a way I won't have this image of Hudson and Connor for the next few books, at least until the long game. And I can almost form my own characters in my own head and develop that as I would have any other book, for example. ⁓ So that's interesting. So you're saying better writing is to come and more complex characters are coming. ⁓ And that makes me want to

Keep going in a way.

Declan (06:18)
Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, Shane and Ilya become more complicated. the version of them in the long game, in retrospect, when you're looking at Hedda Riperty after you've finished the long game, you're like, yeah, the signs are there and there's elements of their character. It's definitely there that she then develops on. But she doesn't go into the complexities of these guys in the same way that she does in that book. So,

I can look at it kind of with like rose-tinted glasses. And that's where I get my idea of Heat at Rivalry. But yeah, there is more to come, but there's plenty to enjoy in this book first.

Silvan (06:57)
Yeah, should we delve into this book?

Declan (07:00)
We shall. And I think a good one to start off with is how did you find this version of Ilya and Shane?

Silvan (07:09)
That's a really good question, actually.

I feel like Ilya was lifted right from the book onto our TV screen. feel like, you know, Conestory did a really good job at encapsulating the character of Ilya so well that that doesn't feel like there's this big disparity between book Ilya and TV show Ilya for me. What were your thoughts? What were your thoughts on Ilya in the book?

Declan (07:29)
Yeah.

I

agree. ⁓ I think Connor's story, the way that he adapts Ilya's character, it's nearly pervading. It is so close to the book version. The only difference, I think, is that people might not like me saying this, but I think book Ilya is funnier. I think he is a funnier character. ⁓ I think his jokes just land better. And I think like...

Silvan (07:55)
Yes!

Declan (08:01)
his internal monologue is funnier. ⁓ There's a real childishness to the way that he thinks about certain things that come across in a really, really entertaining way. That is very difficult to translate to screen, so it is. I think that humourabilia on screen can be a bit more stilted. But to be honest, I just do think the book version is funnier.

But in terms of like getting us to invest in a character and getting us to care, I do feel like Connor's story's acting and the way in which he delivers the character is much more convincing in that regard. But yeah, they're so close together, so they are. They did a fantastic job of adapting that character.

Silvan (08:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, and because you were talking about funny earlier is you get that right from the beginning in the book, whereas I feel like in the TV show you do get elements of it, but he gets funnier as the TV show progresses. So like by episode, four, five and six, you are like appreciating the comedic value of India.

Declan (09:12)
Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of that has to do with the idea that, ⁓ you know, so much of the beginning of this book is just the boys internally monologuing. ⁓ And so a lot of that humor happens on the inside and it's happening in their minds and you can enjoy it as a reader. But obviously you don't really, you can't translate that easily to, you know, like the screen. ⁓

There are clever ways to do it, through text messaging and things like that. You can see that in the show. ⁓ I do think that's some of the best humour that is delivered in terms of earliest character. Like the sexting and stuff that he does and the taunting he does of Shane is just really, really fun. ⁓ But yeah, naturally it's just going to be difficult to translate certain inner monologues in terms of going from book to TV show. ⁓ I think you find that more with Shane's character, I think, is probably the harder one to adapt.

Silvan (10:09)
Yeah, and speaking of Shane, I feel like Shane is almost a different character in the book. He's so different to what the TV show depicts him as. For starters, he doesn't even drink ginger ale. He drinks beer in the book.

Declan (10:26)
Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. I-

Silvan (10:28)
I

think that was the most shocking thing of all for me.

Declan (10:33)
It's because we make such a big deal of it. don't know, do they, does he then start drinking ginger ale later on? Because you've only read chapter 8 so far, so we'll see. We'll find out.

Silvan (10:43)
I'll find out. Who knows?

what were your thoughts on Shane? Because I have like notes on this.

Declan (10:53)
So Shane in the book, I quite like his character. I think he's quite engaging. There's more of like, I think there's more of like a mental turmoil to Shane in the book than can be like fully displayed on the screen. I think Hudson Williams is working with a character that's very difficult to emulate on screen because so much of what's happening with him is happening internally.

⁓ and he does a fantastic job of expressing that for his eyes, for his emotions. like can you imagine walking up to an actor and go, here's a character he is like emotionally turbulent inside and you need to express that, but not too well because he's also on the spectrum. So he doesn't always overtly emote what he's feeling. So it's like, like, how do even do that? But somehow he manages to create a version of the character that does that justice, but you can only do it to a certain extent.

Hearing Shane's true thoughts and the way that he thinks in this book is very revealing and you learn more about him in that sense and about the way he sort of thinks and feels and operates and views certain things. I also think that he's more jockish in this book. He seems more like one of the guys, unless of like an awkward geek. So yeah, that's some of the elements I picked up on. What about you? What have your general thoughts been?

Silvan (12:08)
Yes.

So I know Rachel has discussed about Shane being autistic or being on the spectrum or being neurodivergent. And I don't get that from the book. I don't get the, you know, some of those traits that are so obvious on the TV show. And maybe it's because we have a visual representation of some of the body language and the lack of eye connection and things like that, that really work on a TV medium.

But to me, that doesn't crumb across in the book, at least not yet. He does come across as one of the lads, I'm going to say. ⁓ You know, he swears, he does all that kind of stuff, whereas TV Shane doesn't. And so for me, this feels like a little bit of a different character. And I like the way Jacob Tierney has almost lifted this character and given

the character of so many different layers. And you can see, and as you were saying that you're absolutely right, you can see how Hudson Williams has weaved through those layers in such a way that sort of it envelops over the course of the episodes. Even with the TV show, I didn't automatically think, ⁓ Shane's autistic. It was only through some more discourse. And as the TV shows kept airing, the episodes kept airing that I thought, there's something a different.

Declan (13:49)
Yeah, yeah, he's not, he's not reacting and behaving in the way that you would expect. And I think in the TV show, that's presented a lot better. think initially within the book, the subcontext is sort of there. But to be honest, I don't think Rachel Reed fully committed to the idea of having Shane be autistic until long game. I think his traits are a lot stronger in that book, a lot more obvious. So we're kind of working with hindsight here. So

Silvan (14:13)
interest.

Declan (14:19)
It's sort of like a little bit of corrective writing where it's becoming a lot more obvious ⁓ because Shane has other struggles in that book as well that are more tied to his neurodiversity and more tied to his mental health. ⁓ And I'll not say anything more than that, but definitely the idea to fully lean into the idea that Shane is autistic in the TV show is definitely lent to his character. And I think it makes him more

understandable and also more relatable as well in a lot of ways. ⁓ Like I see a lot of people in Shane in the TV show, whereas in the book he's just a bit more stereotypical than he'd a rivalry, ⁓ book version. He's just a stereotypical jock. He's just trying to be straight-laced and perfect all the time. And he does have a mean competitive streak and he is quite organized and he's a little maybe OCD, ⁓ but the traits aren't.

developed as fully as they are in the TV show. But obviously TV show writers get to work in hindsight. They get these characters and they can flush them out and do a lot more with them than the opera might have originally thought. But knowing then that Rachel works in tandem with Jacob Tierney and the other writers to flush these characters out, obviously it's still her baby, it's still her characters. But yeah, the difference is definitely there. Like they're not completely identical.

not in the way that sort of Ilya and Connor's story might be.

Silvan (15:48)
Definitely. And I'm wondering what you thought of the pay scene initially for the book was like for you when you read it.

Declan (15:56)
So in terms of the pacing, ⁓ I think the pacing makes sense when you read Heated Rivalry and Long Game as a theology. I don't think it's as cohesive when you're just reading Heated Rivalry. ⁓ It feels like this is half the story. And I imagine Rachel Reed definitely did intend to return to these characters because

Elia reoccurs, so he does. He makes little cameos for the other books. so it's clearly always an intention for her to go back and revisit these characters. whenever I finished this book, it did feel unfinished. It didn't feel like a standalone so much like the other books have been. So, yeah, that does mean that the pacing is a little different. think as you read more of this book and towards the end of it, you'll realize what I'm talking about. But

For what it's trying to convey, it does work. I just feel like there's ways of making it work better, that sort of flow with the development of their relationship a bit better. I think there's a bit too much focus on maybe the physical element of their relationship, rather than so much the emotional. I think in the TV show, it's better paced. And you get those emotional beats a lot earlier than you do in the book. And that's sort of my general thought on that.

Silvan (17:23)
Definitely, and you can see this commonality with game changer. You there is such an emphasis on the physical stuff, on the sex. And that's something that Rachel definitely carries through into heated rivalry. So in a way, to quote Hilary Duff, let's go back to the beginning.

Declan (17:42)
hahahaha

Silvan (17:45)
So the way this book opens is actually with a prologue. So that's a little bit different already from Game Changer. And you get smacked in the face in the prologue. Like I was reading it thinking I was going to be reading, you know, the beginning of episode one from the TV show. And so you almost get this prologue that jumps seven years into their situationship, their relationship, whatever you want to call it at that

Declan (17:52)
Yes, that's right.

Yeah, yeah.

Silvan (18:14)
And

I was very confused. And then you get smacked with a fuckton of sex.

Declan (18:21)
Yeah, like this book. So this book starts off at like 11. So it does it like throws you right in and it's ⁓ I think it's kind of works because it just goes in and goes, my God, these guys have so much chemistry. And yet one of them is like. Like they have this big heated, they literally have this heated moment together that's then undercut by like, ⁓ my God.

Silvan (18:22)
I was not expecting that.

Declan (18:50)
I am like in over my head with this guy. Like he just goes, he leaves and what am I doing anymore? And how the hell did I get here? Well, let me tell you exactly how you got here. So I do like that element of it. I think it's interesting. But it also, it's kind of like that, how did we get here? That's sort of what this prologue is doing. And I think it's interesting that they decided to do a prologue that's in the future rather than in the past, which is a nice little subversion of expectations.

But yeah, you were taking off guard by it, I take it.

Silvan (19:22)
Definitely. And I was even thinking about like, why do they even use a proleg? What does it achieve? And I think you were right. I think it really does sort of make the story stand out right from the beginning and it catches you off guard. It's not, it's not the slow burn type of start you're expecting. You're almost dropped right in the middle of it. And then you're like, now we're going to rewind.

Declan (19:43)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think this for me explains a little bit of the pacing issue that I have with this book. And it's that she's going with a structure of like physically straight on there. These guys are going to be physically together, they're going to have lots of sex. And then we are going to build the emotional relationship then. And that's exactly what happens in the show. But those emotional beats of building the relationship do not come frequently enough.

in the first half of this book. And I think that pacing affects that idea that she's running with, which is actually really clever, the idea of going in really physical and doing all the sex and the smut, but have it become more meaningful throughout as their relationship and emotion begins to build between the two. Which seems to be the point of starting the prologue like this, having it bang straight into the sex. But she needs more emotional beats, the same sort of emotional beats that you find in the show.

Like, you know, that one where Ilya is leaving Shane's apartment that he bought, the big apartment complex, and they share that case on the stairs. You won't find that in here, even though it's a very important emotional moment between the two. And it's little moments like that there, if you like, are just missing from this, that just affect pacing a little bit. But yeah, I got distracted.

Silvan (21:05)
No, it's so true. in a way, I was thinking about how we were very critical, let's be honest, about the amount of sex that was in Game Changer and how superfluous it was and how it didn't drive the story forward. But for some reason, and again, this is where I think I'm a little bit biased now, I didn't mind the amount of sex. There was sex pretty much in every chapter up until chapter eight. Like there's pretty much a sex scene in every chapter.

Declan (21:15)
Okay.

Yeah.

Silvan (21:32)
And for some reason I didn't mind it as much. And maybe it's cause it's still part one of the book. And so it hasn't become repetitive to a point where it becomes in earlier words boring. But why do we accept the amount of sex that we get right from the beginning in this book when in Game Changer it felt like a slog to get through sometimes.

Declan (21:57)
Because it's not boring.

is the long and short of it. It's exciting, it's secret, it's dangerous, it could ruin their careers. Every time they meet each other and have sex, they are like adding a little bit of emotional connection between each other. Every time they meet, you're like, my God, they are like falling more and more and more in love. There is something going on in the background. The more these two have sex, the more time they spend together, the more you know that they're going to like each other even more. And you're waiting for that cathartic moment of like...

I love you, this is always meant to be and my god it's so much more than physical about us and I'm getting too attached. It's because that is happening and building in the background every single time it happens. The sex in this has purpose, so it does, and it has interesting purpose. It's an exciting setup. It increases the emotional sort of stakes as it goes on and so you don't mind the sex because sex means that they're getting closer.

Silvan (22:54)
like it was also a lot hotter like the sex is not so vanilla it's right i think she might have consulted one of her gay besties or something like how does this actually

Declan (22:57)
I think she got better at writing it.

No, there is definitely an improvement in her writing more intimate scenes. Definitely it's a lot better in this book.

Silvan (23:08)
Because

And I'm even thinking about the way she writes the sex scenes. Like you said, they are better written now. They're a bit more...

detail, there's that danger element, you But I'm reading this out in public and I'm not feeling, you know, flushed or, my gosh, I can't be reading this in public kind of thing. I'm not, what am I trying to say? I'm not necessarily feeling turned on by the sex scenes, if I'm honest. I'm reading them because they're part of the story. I don't know how that lands with other people when they're reading it.

Declan (23:44)
and

Yeah, I think you're right. And I think it's just down to maybe a sense of build up. It's not really there, like the waiting for it to happen, the will they, won't they? Like it's not there.

It's like that building of anticipation. So you know when you're watching a horror movie and you know, like a jump scare comes out of nowhere and like it wasn't built up. The tension wasn't there. You weren't like sitting in anxiety waiting for something to happen. It's ineffective because there is no build up. And so.

I feel like when it comes to like romance and things like that, the same rule sort of applies. You need to build it up. You need to build that anticipation that's sort of waiting for it to happen to make it feel like satisfying because it's like, my God, well, they won't date. We've been waiting so long for this. This is so tense. my God, I can't wait any longer. This is crazy. And I think the same rule applies here. ⁓ But because of the way that the story is structured and the kind of story that Rich reads trying to tell,

doesn't really allow so much for that anticipation in terms of their intimacy. So yeah, it's sadly like an after effect of the way that she's telling the story. Now, I think the show maybe does better. That's a bit of story. That's a visual medium. That doesn't count. So that might have some more to do with it.

Silvan (25:19)
That told a whole other story. Let me tell you.

Declan (25:29)
⁓ but yeah, generally I think it's just anticipation.

Silvan (25:34)
Yeah. And even when we think about sort of, as we progress through the prologue and we get to sort of chapter one, even chapter one feels like it picks up right where the beginning of episode one starts. And in a way, this is the starting I was almost expecting. So having that prologue really gave me whiplash in a way that the show, the TV show gave me whiplash with all the time jumps and you had to really keep track of everything. This.

Declan (25:45)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Silvan (26:04)
I don't get that sense of where plasie as I'm reading through the chapters in terms of pacing, because it's very clear. It's just like December 2008, January, 2011. I can match the timeline and I can sort of go through it in my head as I'm reading and I'm not trying to figure it out in a way. It's delivering the timeline on a platter for the reader, which makes it easier for me.

Declan (26:29)
Yeah, and I do think it works better in a book format. I actually wish more MN Romance writers would take the time to just give their characters literal time to be together, to build themselves up. It's very important that you do have these time jumps because it builds greater connection between Ilya and Shane. This thing is built on shared experience and time together. Whereas a lot of offers like

Don't bother with that. It's like you're in love after three days and now you're getting married after the fourth. Like I hate that. Kip and Scott. Yeah, like no. So she is doing things in this book, which I'm really happy with because I didn't quite like them whenever they were done game changer the way that she did. So I'm really happy that she's made certain changes in Heat of Rivalry where it makes a flow a bit better. ⁓ But yeah, I do generally find that maybe when you're reading books, time skips make a bit more sense because you have time to explain them too.

Silvan (27:04)
Kip and Scott.

Declan (27:28)
can't explain what happens. you know, every time he called back to Shane, like three years later, he's not going to turn to the camera and go, and in this time we've been doing this here and I've been missing Elias so much and we've been seeing him back and forth. So he's not having like a fleabag break to the fourth wall moment where he just like explains to the camera what's happened. But yeah, it's just sort of like a byproduct of the change in medium. it is obviously the time skips are important. So they need to include them when they do in this show. So

Silvan (27:44)
Right?

Declan (27:58)
It's not always the best way to communicate, sort of change, but you know, I think they do what they can with it.

Silvan (28:03)
And I think that she does it really well for me. It helps me build up expectation and realism in a way it's been like, it's been a year, it's been three months. So it's not just like with Kip and Scott, it's been literal weeks and they're professing their love to each other and they're moving in and things like that. It's like, I love how Lizzie spoke on our podcast a couple of episodes ago, like you whole lesbian-esque. Cause it's true. They do move so fast. I'm like,

I don't know how much I'm buying this, but in Heated Vivalry, I'm buying a little bit more. know, the time seems to be separated a little bit more realistically for me.

Declan (28:44)
Yeah, it makes sense for two athletes that are closeted to stretch this out the way that they are and being terrified of confessing feelings because the minute they do, this becomes a lot more serious and a lot more complicated. So you buy into the idea that they would literally spend years just being content with hooking up and sometimes talking and like, but never anything like overly serious. And it's when it gets serious that it gives

book the kick off the ass to really get us going then and do the third act.

Silvan (29:17)
That's realistic for, I'm not going to say all, but a lot of gay relationships and how they start. you think about, you know, when Grindr sort of came onto the scene and a lot of people were hooking up already. So Grindr didn't invent that. That's not what I'm saying. But when you think about a lot of gay relationships that I've been sort of exposed to through friends and such, a lot of them started by hooking up and it stayed as a hookup type of culture for a really long time.

until it progressed to getting a bit more serious and then progressed to the step beyond that. And to me, this feels like they're two 17 year olds. Of course they're going to be hooking up. They have hormones surging through their bodies. Like they're not thinking, this is the man that I want to spend the rest of my life with. mean, Shane has a fucking girlfriend in the book.

Declan (30:05)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, he started to Sake camp with a girlfriend. Obviously, she didn't last long, like, but thank God. Yeah, let's not get into that. Yeah, it's it does make sense for their characters for their age. Like, they're not really thinking about the long term possible repercussions of what they're doing. They're not thinking about how attached they're becoming. So that when it does finally happen, they're like, ⁓ shit.

Silvan (30:14)
What?

Well, thank God.

Declan (30:40)
what the hell did I do here because I did not plan for this to happen at all and no I'm freaking the fuck out. So that was not good drama and it plays into your realism in their age which is realism in their characters and it means that we can buy into it as well like it works for me. Kip following a love of Scott and never leaving his house after meeting him the first time, not so much.

Silvan (30:46)
right?

No, no. I think one of the things that I missed about some of the references in the TV show, and this is coming from, I was literally listening to this episode of the Loom Call podcast, and they had some of the editors from the show on their podcast, and they were talking about some of the sounds, obviously as an editor, you you're editing around sound and as well as the visuals, and they talked about how, you know, the very first time you meet these characters is the lighter.

and you hear the lighter. And in my head, I was playing the lighter noise because that's so for me synonymous about how they met. And that's one of the things that I think with any book and not just Rachel Reed is you miss sound, you miss the inflections of the tone of voices, you you miss the background noise and you're sort of filling it in.

Declan (31:35)
Yeah.

Bye

Silvan (31:58)
but that's not something that I'm filling in naturally. I fill in the visuals when I'm reading. I'm not always filling in the sound unless it's explicitly stated on the page. Like they're walking down the streets of New York and I'm like, okay, it's busy, it's noisy, it's, you know, all that kind of thing. And that to me is what makes the TV show just so special.

Declan (32:04)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, what clever storytelling is that? Like, what is that telling you? You see a lighter, you don't see a lighter, you hear a lighter flick spark. And then meet the two guys that are now meeting each other for the first time. What just happened? Oh my God, they have a spark. There's romance there. There's a passion. There's a fire, there's a flame. There's, oh my God, there's an attraction there.

clever way of storytelling and that's one of the best things about adaptation is that you can have a story delivered in a way that's completely different from when for how you originally consumed it and you get someone's creative spin on how they've visualized it themselves either through cinematography, mise en scene, through sound, through lighting, through color like you have a new repertoire of things that you can use to explain

and tell a story and that's the beauty of how it's been translated to the screen in this way that you can include things like this here you can use sound to give subtle clues and context to what's going on between these two characters rather than just having a book which would just explain it to you so yeah it's just a very lovely idea about adaptation in general that you do have this really inspiring change of medium that

can present you a story in a completely different context.

Silvan (33:48)
Exactly. And for me, what it does, it makes me appreciate how Jacob Tierney and the team adapted the material from this book. Like, holy shit, they did a really good job. They, for me, they elevated the material, at least from what I've read so far, and to the TV show. And a lot of the dialogue is pulled from the book. So this isn't a sort of disservice for Rachel to read at all, because I'm reading some of the data. I'm like, that's pretty much what they say on the TV show.

And so a lot of this is pulled, but it feels elevated for me so far.

Declan (34:24)
Yeah, and that's the benefit of having like lots of very talented creatives look at your work and turn it into something different. And I can imagine for a lot of offers, that's sort of like a dream to have ⁓ people that are so talented take an interest in your work and turn it into something that's completely different to what you imagined, ⁓ but still do an honor to how much effort and work and creativity you put into it yourself. So

Yeah, I like that they took literally a surgical scalpel to this story and thought of ways to enhance the sort of viewing experience. I cannot find this very common in media these days, this level of effort and this level of consideration for how your story is told and how it's communicated. ⁓ And they decide to do it with a M.M. Romance book, like

Yeah. And what happened was they were able to deliver a story to the masses in a way that other people haven't in a very long time. Like you haven't really gotten a popular show like this representing a gay relationship since like Brokeback Mountain. Like never has it reached a level of popularity since like then where it becomes like pop culture. So it does like Brokeback Mountain is pop culture. Heartstopper is sort of

pop culture is pop culturally significant as well and no heat of rivalry is also like that but it's whenever you take the care and the attention and you just pour everything you can into it and create a beautiful piece of art. People will line up for that for stuff that has heart and soul put into it and effort and it feels genuine and that's I think what makes this adaptation work so well.

Silvan (36:16)
Yeah, it's because they took it seriously. mean, Brokeback Mountain was a book as well or a novel, I can't remember, but I remember reading the book Brokeback Mountain. so they took Heated Rivalry seriously. They could have easily made this a very commercialized Netflix-esque, know, smutty sort of 360, is it 365 or 360 days type of series where it's a bit, it's a bit.

Like they were in the campy. That's what I was thinking. Like, you know, they could have made this campy and they didn't.

Declan (36:45)
they couldn't make.

They could

have made red, white, and royal blue.

Silvan (36:53)
⁓ we need to we need to do a whole other podcast on red, white and royal blue. I know where you're coming from. I know where you're coming from. We're gonna have so many arguments. We're gonna have so many arguments.

Declan (37:00)
Let me tell you right now, that book,

that adaptation, there is a word apart for these two shows. And funny, the original source material, not significantly any different in terms of writing. So it's not like they're not significantly, one is not significantly better than the other in terms of like the books, but the way in which they're adapted and delivered.

or the TV could not be more different. Could not be more different. But maybe that's a discussion we'll get into.

Silvan (37:38)
Definitely. think we just need Jacob to adapt everything for us from here on out. Just do everything. I'll give me take my money.

Declan (37:42)
Yeah, have a game and give it in.

Silvan (37:48)
And I was thinking about sort of like how the chapters progress. So when we get to chapter three, and even with chapter two even, I'm thinking, okay, who's the narrator in this chapter? Because Rachel Reed writes in the third person. And it's been a thought that's been sort of on my mind since we started Game Changer. She writes in the third person and in a lot of books, at least in a lot of sort of not M &M romances, but just gay themed or M &M books I've read is,

from the perspective of that character per chapter. So it's written almost in a first person kind of way. But Rachel Reed writes in third person. I wasn't expecting that with Game Changer. And I think it's maybe because it's been a trend more recently to do it that way. And of course she would have written the books a long time ago. And so even when I'm looking at the chapters, I'm like, right.

Declan (38:23)
Hmm.

Silvan (38:39)
Who's the narrator of this chapter? And I don't know how you feel, but I feel like in the TV show, and they've got equal billing, please don't come at me, but I feel like Shane's story is the main character arc of the TV show. Whereas just because of his journey, and a lot of people can identify with that, and not to say that Ilya's journey is not significant.

at all, probably identify with Ilya's journey more than Shane's personally. But in the book, I feel like Ilya is the main character here. He starts off narrating a lot of the, he starts narrating like chapter one, chapter three, like he's narrating a lot of these chapters.

Declan (39:25)
Yeah, this is so interesting because you're right. ⁓ Ilya is very often the point of view character, you could say, as in like the narrative is following him and his perception of what's going on. ⁓ I genuinely think it's just because Rachel Reed liked to write Ilya more. Because I think the actual story in terms of the plot,

where it's going is about Shane. I think it's really Shane's experience. ⁓ Ilya is a huge important part of it. He's definitely a main character but I don't think he is the central character. He's not the one that the story is actually really centered around. It's not really his character journey. ⁓ He is much more accepting of who he is than Shane is and this book is really about acceptance in terms of Shane's journey too. So I just find that this book is Shane's.

And because I've read the long game, I know that that long game is Ilya's. Because it's suddenly a lot more of like him. So it is. I'm just going to say that I generally think it's just because Rachel Reed likes the right Ilya more than she likes the right Shane. I feel like she likes doing his voice more. ⁓ And that's why it's sort of divided up like that. But in terms of who the story is centered around, I think it is Shane.

Silvan (40:32)
See you later.

Declan (40:54)
I think every one of these books does have a main character. the main character of Game Changers is... Now that I'm thinking about it. Originally, I always thought that these books all had a main character. Even though you get to do point of view, you're supposed to have two main characters. But I always thought it was the hockey players. But I think that Game Changers is a tip.

Silvan (41:23)
I would agree. As soon as you said that I was like, it's Kip's story.

Declan (41:28)
Yeah, it's about him growing up and learning to value himself and not accept second best. And that change in Kip is what drives the change in Scott. But yeah, maybe another reason why Game Changers is something quite, you know, it's not the best one because all the other books like the third book, which is about Ryan, it's very much a story. Fourth book, it's about Eric, very much a story.

⁓ well, no, no, it's not. It's not. No. my God. I'm going off on a tangent in my head. I'm going to be like the guy with the conspiracy board in the background soon. ⁓ but no, I was devolving the idea that there's definitely one main character per book. There's one usual central character journey that everyone was following. And then the other character is part of that. And I think in this book it's

Silvan (42:20)
It's Shane. Yeah, I can see why, but I feel like there's a lot more narration from Ilya. And as you said rightfully, perhaps Rachel likes writing for Ilya. And that's certainly what's coming across very early on. And in a way, just to throw back to Game Changer, I almost feel like that would have been a more compelling book in sucking us into the storyline if was, if Scott's journey through that and through...

you know, the NHL and all that kind of stuff was the main character arc and Kip was sort of, he added to it in the periphery, but he was also going through the B plot. Yes. And I wonder if that would have made me more interested in Game Changer, more invested in Game Changer because Scott is the more interesting character.

Declan (43:10)
Yeah.

Yeah, like the stakes are much higher for him. Like his life is on the line, like his career in terms of his likelihood and stuff is on the line. And yet it's all about Kip learning to value himself rather than Scott learning to re-prioritize what he wants in life. But he don't do that, but it's only because Kip changes internally and decides that enough is enough.

Silvan (43:35)
Yeah.

Declan (43:42)
So yeah, the character journey for Scott's lost a little bit. He doesn't become the focus anymore and then his change is like that. Like, I feel like we can get rid of Scott's POV. Right. Yeah.

Silvan (43:50)
You whole lesbian.

Yeah,

I can see a point in at least so far in Shane being the main character because it's, you know, and I wrote notes on, it makes me laugh because I wrote in my, I annotated my books and I wrote, is Ilya Shane's gay awakening? Because he talks about Friday Night Lights and I did not even know Friday Night Lights was going to come into this book. And we talk about Friday Night Lights with, in our episode with Lizzie.

And cause he talks about the guy from Friday Night Lights. And I'm like, is he talking about Taylor Kish? Cause that guy is ridiculously handsome and he's got the long hair and the body and the bravado. And I'm like, Taylor Kish's character is very similar to Ilya's.

Declan (44:41)
Yeah, it could be that he, that was a sexual awakening and then he's seen Hilly and he's like, my God, you're my type.

Silvan (44:48)
Right?

Declan (44:49)
for better or for worse. But yeah, that's an interesting little thought. Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that. yeah, I think as soon as the two of them seen each other, though, was like, you're exactly what I want.

Silvan (44:52)
Yes.

Yeah, and I think where the TV show really elevates some of the material is where I see this in chapter four, for example, when they're shooting the advertisement of the commercial. And from the TV show, we get more perspective in that it was Ilya that was really driving that. That's not in the book. It's not specified. It just feels like it's something that the agents might have put together and they're just having to do it. And so there's this intention and this interest from Ilya and the TV show that

Declan (45:23)
Yeah.

Silvan (45:35)
I get very early on and I'm like, he wants him, he definitely wants him. Whereas here it's almost like they're just being put into situations together and the proximity is what sort of helps guide that attraction to where we get to.

Declan (45:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's Jacob Tierney's making an important shift in that, in that they're being more proactive in their relationship. So Ilya is proactively going after Shane now. It's just like a little ⁓ point that just shows that Ilya really wants him. And it's not just a coincidence. It's not just they just happen to be in the right place at the right time. It's that I met you, I'm going to have you one way or another, and I'm going to make it happen. And so I'm going to...

manufacture a situation in which me and you are going to be together and I'm going to see if I can make something happen. Ilja is very proactive in that sense whereas in the book it's just sort of they just happen to be put together right place right time.

Silvan (46:39)
Yeah, and I want to workshop an idea and I'm going to get a lot of comments, I'm sure. But in chapter four specifically, Ilya is described as quote unquote manly. Now, I have a problem with this. The reason why I have a problem with this is I get what they're trying to do. They're trying to, you know, describe Ilya as this like, is he like six, two, six, four or something like big Russian curly hair.

I get what they're trying to do with that, but what I don't like in doing that is in describing Ilya specifically as manly, because they don't describe Shane as manly, is they're falling into this trope that the top is manly and the bottom isn't.

Declan (47:24)
Mmm.

Silvan (47:26)
And this is where I'm like, hmm, not sure I'm liking that actually.

Declan (47:31)
Yeah, yeah, I hadn't really thought of that, but that's true. Yeah. And it is a common trope in, in M.M. romance books too, but it also opens up the opportunity to subvert that. And now I read a lot of M.M. romance books where that is subverted. ⁓ and there's one in particular, the Vitaly brothers, where one of them is this big, huge guy. And he is like, he's a killer. He sees all these

bangs he's like stereotypical jock he's like Labrador but he's the bottom to this young skinny guy with no confidence no idea what he's doing typical sort of description of twink and he is the top throughout the entire relationship and so I like it when it's subverted it makes it more interesting but

considering that this is her earlier works and she does ⁓ explore different sort of dynamics as the books go on. ⁓ Yeah, I think it's just a sign of just earlier M.M.R.O. writing to be honest. ⁓

Silvan (48:45)
Yeah.

And I wonder if this is also like, you know, of the time or when she was writing this book and maybe this trope was quite prominent. I'm not saying that it was correct or not, but it's quite prominent. And I don't know, I just feel like we've, we've definitely in 2026 shifted away from, you know, tops being manly and bottoms being feminine. That's not what I see with my friends, for example. It's not what I see in lot of other pieces of work.

Declan (49:11)
of me.

Silvan (49:14)
literature, visual media,

That's something that I'm actively trying to discourage other people from thinking. Like when my friends are asking, you know, they'll just randomly ask people if they're a top or a bottom. Like, no, you can't do that. Like, what are you doing? And assuming, you must be the top. Right? Or they're like, you must be the man. And I'm like, we did not go there. We did not go there.

Declan (49:31)
turn around to be like, what's your fan for this?

Silvan (49:40)
And so that's maybe why I'm getting a bit uncomfortable when she describes Ilya only as manly, because it reminds me of these conversations that I'm having now with people.

and as we progress through the book, like in chapter five, there are really sweet nods to game changer. Like they talk about Shane's morning routine and making a smoothie. And I'm like, ⁓ okay. Had I not read game changer, I would have missed that reference.

Declan (50:06)
Yeah,

yeah, there's lots of little cute things in it that sort of remind you of Scott and Kip existing in his universe. And you will start now seeing reoccurring characters. Ilya, you're going to get very familiar with. He lost the pop in and out of people's books. So yeah, I like the little cameos and it's one of the best things about having this sort of shared universe. But you can read these books as standalones. The only one that you really can't read as a standalone is Long Game, because you need the context of Shane and Ilya, but the rest of them you can, but...

you always get little Easter eggs of characters coming in and you're like, ⁓ they're back again and that's so nice. well, yeah, so, yeah, it's nice. It's a nice little aspect whenever you're reading the books.

Silvan (50:49)
It is. And I like these little Easter eggs, these little points of reference, because if you haven't read them, you would have missed them. Now, I want to get your take on chapter six. When they're at the press conference and the journalists are asking both Ilya and Shane questions and reading off these questions, it's quite different to the TV show in that

There's not this obvious discomfort for Ilya because of a language barrier that we see in the TV show. In the book, his responses are actually really funny. Like, he makes light of some of the things that they ask him.

Declan (51:30)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's whenever it starts to get a bit too complicated for him. It's like whenever he's being delivered too much information and he makes it clear that he believes it's like discriminatory as well. That it's just like one journalist always asks him like a really stupidly overly complicated question. And then that's when Shane sort of rescues him then when he, when he can't do the quick back and forth, when he can't do the quick humor that sort of usually gets him out of that situation.

Sort of goes to show how much Shane is watching Ilya because Shane seems to realize that when Ilya is struggling with an answer he'll use humour to deflect, which is what he does. But when it becomes too complicated and it's about too hard for Ilya to do that, Shane knows then I'm going to step in and save him from embarrassing himself. That's interesting. Yeah.

Silvan (52:31)
Exactly. And

we suddenly get that on the TV show, but I did not get that read from the book. I didn't get the impression that Shane was trying to rescue Ilya from a complicated question or an uncomfortable question. Ilya just very much deflects, and maybe it is a defense as you were talking, like he uses his humor sort of deflecting in a way, but I didn't get the read that Shane was rescuing Ilya here. ⁓

You see Ilya being anxious. And I was listening to the Shelf Aware podcast with Ren and Lizzie, who we've had on. And they talk a lot about how Ilya as a character will like rob his temples and things like that when he's anxious.

Declan (53:06)
Yeah.

Silvan (53:14)
And what I noticed in the book is he doesn't do that specifically, so it's different in the book. Here he rubs his knuckles or he rubs the knuckle of his thumb or something like that. And that's how I knew that he was anxious during that sort of set up with the journalists.

Declan (53:19)
Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think that's like also a benefit of being able to deliver something through the visual medium. Again, like you can like, you know, body language, like you're obviously you have your psychological background. Of course, you're going to know how to read body language. But most people understand that we have little small nonverbal communication things that we do with our bodies that help us say to somebody that we're feeling a certain way.

⁓ because we're seeing on screen, we don't need to be told that Ilya is feeling anxious or he seems anxious or he's, you know, it's shown to us that he is like he's the awkward sort of playing with his hands, you know, it's, you know, he's fidgeting. So he is, he's fidgeting and he's self-soothing. ⁓ and you do that when you're anxious. So that's, ⁓ you know, betrayed us in that way. And you can also see how Shane is able to see it because we can see it. And I like that little detail. So yeah.

⁓ it's just an hour, one of those sort of benefits of being able to translate this on the, different medium.

Silvan (54:34)
Yeah, I wanted to ask what you thought about the sex scene, the first sort of sex scene that we see from Ille and Shane,

Declan (54:44)
the shower scene is like the prelude to what could happen. So it is it's like. They're sussing each other out rather than propositioning each other. That's the big difference. And. It also.

Silvan (54:56)
Exactly. Yeah.

Declan (55:03)
It doesn't build up the anticipation though. Which the show 100 % does and it's like, this is so cheeky, this is crazy. ⁓ yeah, I do understand that it's a bit more innocent, and reflects more of their inexperience. ⁓ So yeah, I think that's just the only real difference, to be honest.

Silvan (55:32)
Yeah. And it's interesting that, you know, in the book when they come out of the shower in the TV show, we see Ilya draped in the towel, right? Looking very sort of, I want to say, peacocky. Whereas in the book, it's the other way around.

Declan (55:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Silvan (55:52)
Shane is the one who comes out in the towel, Ilya's already sitting down. And it's just interesting, I wonder what purpose that serves actually. Why did they switch that character? Why do they switch the characters so that Ilya in the TV show is the one who's in the towel and in the book it's Shane?

Declan (56:10)
because it's a way of showing Ilya as this temptation to Shane ⁓ by having him in the towel readily there, he's showing off, he's flexing, he's doing the whole bit and Shane's resolve suddenly goes straight out the fucking window which is completely understandable whereas in the book you sort of lose that aspect of it. It ⁓ puts the ball more in Shane's court to do whatever he wants.

And so he more talks himself into it where whenever you see it on the TV show, it's like, oh my gosh, you don't stand a chance to change. So I think it's a way of showing that Ilya has more power in this dynamic. He's more experienced. He has an idea of what he's doing. He knows what he wants. And it feels less like it's an even playing ground. Whereas in the book, it don't feel like these two are a bit, you know, they're kind of on the same wavelength. They're, it's even though

There's big talk about how Ilya has all this experience sexually. It comes across more in the book that it's a bit more of an even playing ground. Is that right? So it's more balanced in that sense. So I think the TV show decides to go for a different dynamic between the two, where you have someone who's more experienced, emotionally withdrawn, and another one who's trying to figure out his emotions and figure out where he cuts here.

Silvan (57:15)
Yeah. Yes.

Does it?

And I think one of the things, you talked about this a little bit about Shane's inner monologue being, or both really, both the inner monologues being quite evident and being quite sort of clear. And one thing that I definitely got within the first eight chapters was

the sheer gay panic for Shane. And we've all been there. You know, do I like him? No, I don't. Am I gay? No, I'm not. Like, why do I like him? Why is he so hot? And I think that's so authentic. And it's so, I loved reading those parts for Shane.

Declan (58:08)
Yeah, it's that experience of being like, God, you can't be serious. What is it about this guy? Why am I feeling like this? I can't stop looking at him. This is really bad. What is wrong with me? my God, do I actually like this person? shit, I fucking like this person. ⁓ Fuck. And it's captured really, really well where we don't get that in the show, which is sad. That's sad. Where's the gay panic? And maybe obviously,

it's probably internally happening and you know, and it's more subtle. ⁓ But we're missing just that good one of like, yeah, to be honest, because you've not read the end of this book, I can't talk about the freak out that Shane has compared to the show. I'm going to put a pin on that.

Silvan (58:55)
It's coming because you're

right. In the TV show, we see, you know, that conversation they have on on the, on the bed. Like you won't tell anyone kind of thing, but that's as far as it goes in the TV show really. Whereas in the book, I just, maybe because I could relate and I'm like, yeah. yeah. You're down bad. Like this is just the beginning.

Declan (59:11)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, he's definitely battling himself more in the book. So he is, he's battling his sexuality a lot more in the book, whereas in the TV show it's not as evident. Which, you know, there was a lot to fight on. So can't do everything.

Silvan (59:38)
Definitely, definitely.

And so when we come on to chapter seven, then, so I'm going to ask you a question. What did you make of Shane not wanting Elliot to come to his house because he does in the TV show?

Declan (59:53)
⁓ I think it's a way of keeping him emotionally distant. ⁓ I think Shane views his home as like a safe space as a safe, as a place where he goes to relax. and he does mention it throughout the book that he does enjoy like the comfort of his home and he has his books that he reads and he's a, you know, he's very organized, very relaxed. And this is like a safe space for him basically.

And by inviting Ilya into that, it's delivering a message which is, feel attached and emotionally connected to you in a way that I feel like you're welcome here now. You're not making this an unsafe space. You're actually adding to the comfort. And so it would be a very bad sign for Shane if he is that emotionally attached to Ilya that he feels comfortable inviting him to his home.

it's actually I think in the book it's kind of what prompts Shane to buy property in the first place. Like I think he literally buys that apartment block for them specifically whereas in the book it's it's convenient that I was back or in the show sorry it's convenient that I was buying this property as an investment because now we can go here instead whereas in the book I think it's more clear that Shane literally buys an entire apartment block just for the two of them to sleep together.

Silvan (1:00:44)
Yeah, I agree.

That's an expense. I don't know how you justify that to your accountant.

Declan (1:01:20)
It's a good investment. The excuse, the excuse in the book comes afterwards in the show. It's before, so it is, it's like, ⁓ it's a convenience. Whereas you need to make up an excuse when it's in the book, which is funny.

Silvan (1:01:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah,

definitely, definitely. I I agree. I felt like there was this avoidance. It was almost like having Ilya in his house was going to be too intimate, but having this cock in his mouth isn't. Make that make sense.

Declan (1:01:48)
Yeah, because that's just physical, that doesn't

mean anything. That's physical, it doesn't mean anything. So by inviting him into his home, like that's like boyfriend material, that's like a date, like that's different. So he has to create a separate space where he can keep these two aspects of his life completely separate. Because if they come together, then it's going to create a lot of complex problems he doesn't want to deal with.

Silvan (1:01:58)
right?

Yeah. And you suddenly see in this chapter, we talked about the gay panic before, like in the showers and stuff like that. And here you definitely get the sense of what I call, and I don't know what this is really called, so please educate me out there if you're listening. I call it the bottoming panic, where you're like, how is that going to fit in me?

Declan (1:02:31)
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think it's because for him it seems quite new. So he's never had like a thought to contextualize it. ⁓ Or like tried anything to this point. So I think it's an entirely new experience for him. I don't think he's like gone near these feelings before. You get the idea that Shane and the show is sort of aware that he's gay from like a young age. He sort of knows he's just fighting it.

Whereas in the book, it feels more like a recent discovery, like this is brand new. I had no idea I going to be attracted to men. And well, fuck what, no you are. So you better start figuring this shit out quick because you have a lot of knowledge you need to catch up on if you're going to feel like you're ready.

Silvan (1:03:18)
and this is why I say that for Shane, Ilya is his gay awakening because he's not really had these thoughts prior to that.

Declan (1:03:24)
Amen.

Silvan (1:03:27)
And we see in this chapter language that I'm not sure how it landed with me in a similar way to, you know, in the previous couple of chapters where I had issues with Ilya being described as manly.

We see that there's a scene here with Shane and Ilya, and Shane describes himself as wanting to throw his head back against the wall like an eager slut.

Now, I don't know how much language like this is used in other books. And I'm not saying that there's a judgment around this language. But for me, I don't know how I feel about Shane calling himself an eager slut for enjoying sex or wanting sex with Ilya. It didn't quite land well with me. And I don't know whether

And we've already identified in Game Changer, I'm a lot more prudish than I thought I was. But there seems to be this shame or judgment surrounding this, which I didn't think was warranted unless I'm reading it.

Declan (1:04:26)
Thank

It's, I think the reason why you're finding particular issue of it is that it's totally inconsistent. Like it's not really the way Shane talks, so it's not. It seems out of place. ⁓

And because this is Shane's first experience with a man, you can imagine that when he hears the word slut, he's referring it to like a previous image he has of like a woman maybe. Cause I think sometimes when we say that word, there is like an idea and assumption that we're talking about like a woman. ⁓ But I also, think it's more to do just the fact that it's totally inconsistent with the sort of thing that we're running with here. It's more like something that maybe Ilya might come out with. Not really, Shane.

And so it does feel out of place. Like there's other books where like you do have characters like that. And I'm like, yeah, you would definitely say that. Like, but it's all like they're in the moment. Like they're talking about themselves. They're like, they're really like darker characters. Yeah, they're in the heat of the moment. And it's like the, it's something that they would say, like the song that they would view themselves as. it's like part of their kink. And it's all this for Shane, it just, that's.

Silvan (1:05:43)
the heat of it.

Declan (1:05:55)
just doesn't really make sense, doesn't really belong in here. Take it out, I don't wanna.

Silvan (1:06:01)
Yeah, I'm just wondering what the incentive of using that was. Like, you know, it's almost like one of them calling the other daddy or something. It just felt weird.

Declan (1:06:12)
Yeah, it's just out of place. It's just totally wrong for his character and where they're at at this point in time. So now I think it was just a pretty placed word, let's say. ⁓

Silvan (1:06:26)
Yeah, I'm not sure why I'm having such

a reaction. Maybe I'm the only one, but if you have another thought of anyone's listening or you have a reaction yourself, let us know. It's just I had that reaction because that word feels quite derogatory, especially in this day and age. And when it's used, it's used as a slur or an insult. It's not used in a, you're such a slut. You're a slut.

Declan (1:06:44)
and

Remember.

Silvan (1:06:55)
You're promiscuous. You're a harlot. don't know. I think for me, I just responded badly to it. Yeah. then we get to chapter eight, and this concludes sort of that part one, part of the book.

Declan (1:07:00)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Silvan (1:07:16)
And what I found really interesting in this chapter was, you know, this is for anyone who hasn't read it in a while or is sort of following along, this is where they have the, and they call it the NHL awards. think they call it the MHL awards in the TV show. can't remember. But this is where, yeah, something like that. ⁓ And this is where Shane wins rookie of the year and Ilya doesn't. And you get this rooftop scene.

Declan (1:07:32)
Something like that,

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Silvan (1:07:44)
In the book, it's different. the book, there's a bar at the top, and that's where Shane goes to. He's looking for Ilya initially, but he just goes up to the bar. And then opposite the bar, there's this sort of open plan space in the book. And so that's where he ends up finding Ilya just by chance in a way in the book. But to me, whole, you know, when Ilya declares, it's not all about you, Hollander, there's no context in the book by which we know in the TV show,

Declan (1:08:01)
Yeah.

Silvan (1:08:14)
Elia's dad is ill. We know something's wrong and he's preoccupied about that. He says, I have to go to Russia in like three days or whatever. And so in the book, Elia's outburst doesn't make sense in a way.

Declan (1:08:29)
Hmm, yeah, because we don't have the context as to why he's behaving like that. ⁓ I think it does paint an image of Ilya that he is not always emotionally rational in the way he's behaving. It shows his immaturity. In the book, do find that Ilya is more immature in the sort of way goes on and the way he eggs on other players as well is a lot more childish in the book, I think.

I think he he rides everybody up for no real particular reason. Whereas in the show, it seems a bit more strategic. It seems like a reason to sort of just like, rile up the other team and make a big mistakes or whatever. ⁓ but in the book, it's more obvious. Ilya is a bit of an asshole. It's definitely is like he's characterized more in that way. Like he is more of a dick. ⁓ but I think that does come out here a little bit and we can assume that the same thing has happened.

where Ilya has had a bad experience since release to his family. It's not really about Shane, but it doesn't quite land the same way because we don't have that context right now, which is a shame because ⁓ we have a dual POV, so we could have got that. ⁓

Silvan (1:09:44)
Yeah, I we get

a little bit, we get that call with Alexi and it's like, you know, what's going on kind of thing. there's, but I think in the TV show, it really links it much more saliently that there's something wrong with his father. And that's what leads to that outburst. Like it's not all about you. And again, this is where sound inflection of voice, because I watched the TV show, I really felt that outburst.

Declan (1:10:03)
Yeah.

Silvan (1:10:13)
Whereas I think if I just read the book, it didn't read like an outburst. It just read like a statement.

Declan (1:10:21)
Well, let me put it this way. When I read the book, that moment was like, it was not like a moment for me. It was just like they met and Ilya got a bit annoyed at him. Like it wasn't this memorable thing that it became because it's ⁓ such a pivotal scene in the show because it shows that Ilya can't be careless with Shane's feelings. He can't

Shane can also be a bit blind to Ilya's feelings as well and he's not very good at reading him and Ilya is dealing with a lot of family pressure and his family is a much bigger presence in the show than it is in the book. It's a much bigger issue and present within the plot. Whereas in the book you'll find that that's not true. It's still there but it's definitely not a huge plot point even though it's so central to Ilya's character and who he is at this moment.

Silvan (1:11:06)
Mm-hmm.

Declan (1:11:20)
So yeah, I think there's a lot in that. It was definitely turned into something bigger in the show because it was a good moment to show a bit of characterization in how this relationship is sort of a bit messy and how these two don't really know each other properly. ⁓ So yeah, you were right to pick it up. It is different for a reason.

Silvan (1:11:41)
Yeah. And do you know how I know there's so much more content that we're talking about? Because we've just, I mean, I think we've done a Ren and Lizzie from the Shelf Aware Podcast and that we've dissected like eight chapters and we've talked for over an hour about this. I think it aligns with maybe the story that we're interested in, maybe the story that a lot of people are interested in, but also that what we're getting from the writing as well. And I feel like there is a shift.

Declan (1:11:51)
So we found the one we sent.

Silvan (1:12:11)
from game changer to heater driver with them.

Declan (1:12:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think this is a better book. Definitely. ⁓ I think Rachel reads more experience, a writer in this one, and she's making better decisions and writing more interesting characters with a lot more depth ⁓ and realism as well. Like these characters feel way more real than the relationship between Scott and Cape Everdead. ⁓ And their struggle is much more compelling as well. Like there's a build up, there's real purpose, there's structure to this thing that really does make sense.

and while you will find that it does have its flaws, it's still a very entertaining, competently written piece of work that was perfect for adaptation. yeah, there we go. We're off to a strong start.

Silvan (1:12:55)
Yeah, so bear with us. We are going to take our time with this only because there is so much and there is a lot of comparison to the TV show that we're going to be making because of the way it's structured. And honestly, I'm just a slow reader. So I'm really taking my time with this. Like if you're part of the book club, you'll already see that we have surpassed Heated Rivalry. What book are we on in the book club now, Declan?

Declan (1:13:17)
⁓ We're on Common Goal, which is ⁓ Eric and Kyle, think. Yeah, that one's interesting for anyone that really, really did like Game Changer and liked Kip and Scott because they're still part of that book too. So there's lots to look forward to.

Silvan (1:13:38)
Yeah, you know, join us on Fable. I tend to read back through the comments and add stuff later on as I'm catching up with the books. But you know where we're at. Declan is very adept at keeping up and sort of managing that pace. So do find us on Fable. It's called Long Game Podcast. I'll also put all the description links below.

Declan (1:14:05)
thank you so much for joining us. That was part one of our dissection of the Heed of Rivalry book and how it sort of compares to the show. If you like this, make sure you like, subscribe, share it with anyone you think will enjoy it. Also check us out on Fable. We have a book club going where we're going through the entire series. At the moment we're on the fourth book, but all the original discussions are still on there too. So if you want to drop in and maybe...

catch up on some of that stuff and some of those discussions then definitely do. It's called the Long Game Podcast Book Club. So check that out. That's on Fable again. And we're also available on multiple platforms as well. Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon, the whole lot. check us out. Share us with your friends and we'll see you for part two.