Welcome to Digication Scholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part two of my conversation with Lizz Colon, Director
of Learning in Public at College Unbound.
More links and information about today's conversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
Full episodes of Digication Scholars Conversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
You talked a lot about lived experiences, right?
I want to go back into one of the things that you had mentioned as one of the first
things that you said, you know, after.
After basically, you know, 20 credits in the, in the, Community College,
you did a lot of work around, um, "Lead Poisoning Prevention," and you
worked for the CDC, EPA, and so on.
Can you tell us a little bit about that work?
I know that it's so far may not have something, you know, doesn't, may
not connect to, to, um, to College Unbound, but I think it does.
I think that, you know, We can get a sense of, for someone who struggled so
hard to stay in school, when something's on the line, something that matters, she
shines and she became a national respected expert on the, how does that happen?
Can you tell us about that work and tell us how that happened?
Well, I mean, so again, it came from lived experience.
Um, I bought a house.
Um, it was built in 1896.
Um, I had gotten married.
One of my, my, my second child, um, after moving in the house
only after three months, um, was hospitaLizzed with lead poisoning.
And, um, there was a whole whirlwind of things that had to happen, um, and,
and this happened in, in 1996, um, and that's kind of what led me down that
path into getting involved with my community and I wanted to know more, um,
there was a meeting at the Rhode Island Department of Health and one of the,
the nurses Um, that, uh, was a nursing coordinator for the childhood led o...
for the lead program, um, at the hospital.
Uh, was like, you should come, and you should talk to people,
and we're gonna have this meeting.
And I walked into this meeting, and here's people from the Department
of Health, and there's lawyers, and doctors, and all this stuff.
And here I am, my teacher.
21 year old self, um, walking in and they're talking about, you know, how
great of a campaign they're doing and I was like, I was dumbstruck because I
had never heard of lead poisoning before and I had never, you know, these people
were all, you know, professionals and congratulating themselves about what
a great campaign and I'm like, I've never even heard of your campaign.
Like, how is this right?
This doesn't make sense to me.
Um, and, and, I'm also a person who's very direct.
And so, um, it was like, well, would you want to be and sit on this committee?
Because we think we need members of the community.
And I was like, absolutely, but I can't be the only one.
You have to have more people.
Like, more people like me, in my shoes.
Because I knew it was going to be an uphill battle.
Um, and so that's kind of what started and what launched.
I didn't even know what community organizing was at the time.
Um, I didn't know that I was really like advocating for other people.
I was just asking questions because it wasn't, it explains well, and I
didn't understand why these things were happening and why there was such
a lack of a process or they would brush it off onto something else.
And, um.
That's my personal inquisitiveness, is kind of what started that, um, and I
just kept rolling with it, and then I met this woman, um, her name is Roberta
Hazen Aaronson, and she was, uh, working as the executive director for the
Childhood Action Project, and she was like, would you like to come work for me?
And I was like, uh, I don't know, I don't know who you are, I don't
know what you're doing, I, I'm like You know, she's like, well, I want
you to be a community organizer.
And I was like, but what is that?
And she's like, everything that you've been doing, but I want to pay you for it.
And I was like, whoa, okay, I could do this.
And so that's kind of what started down this advocacy path, which then turned
into, um, You know, being the leader in building coalitions and it led to the next
part of, um, you know, lobbying at the statehouse and, you know, legislation.
It led to, um, 10 years of litigation, um, in regards to, um, the paint companies
and the way that we had to, um, litigate, you know, cases for lead based paint.
Um, and, and I was
lucky enough to be part of all of that.
Um, and so because I had that background and when we talk about lived experience
and I came into College Unbound, it was like, wow, you know, you've done this.
I could build a portfolio all around litigation and using, um, you know, and,
and, and, you know, building consensus and, um, and, and even legislation.
Right.
And the legislative actions that I had taken, right.
And I covered my civic engagement classes, um, and it covered my
leadership classes, uh, when I talked about kind of the hierarchy of.
the organization and the organizational structures within the Department of
Health, or whether it was on the, the, you know, the state level or the national
level, or even on a local level, um, I was able to get, you know, credit for
organizational studies because I was an industrial hygienist and I did a lot
around, um, you know, lead, asbestos, um, you know, all kinds of, of, um,
Environmental toxins around heavy metals.
I was able to get credit for science, you know Uh, and so like I there was
a there were a lot of different pieces And it was just an amazing journey to
be able to say yeah I've done this and then be able to equate that to a class
and have enough information To be able to say like I understand the context.
I understand the criteria I understand the learning and so when you kind of
put those things side by side, that's how I was able to get the credit.
But I, I, this is why I think it's so important.
This is such an amazing story, by the way, congratulations and thank
you for doing this amazing work.
Because, I really do think that millions of people are better off because of that,
and that's, you know, it's, it's just, it's just absolutely fantastic, and, but
I, I, I do want to just kind of go back to that moment when you said, Oh, my child
got sick, and, and this is what sometimes lived experience looks like, that you
cannot reproduce, you cannot do, do enough pretend projects at school to, to bring
the passion out in someone like Lizz.
I think that Lizz, there are many Lizz's in the world where, where, The pretend
project in schools are not enough to, to get her attention, get her, get her,
get her to, to believe in something that goes, I've got to make this back.
Like, I want to see the world in a better place.
I'm going to do it now.
I'm not going to do a, let's write a paper about something that might
happen that no one was going to see.
Because I think that's when you have your problems.
That's when you're getting red pads all over it.
But when you had to face the real world, you know, the real legislation,
real, real, real issues, that's when you go, Whoa, hold on a minute.
I'm going to bring out my A game.
Right?
And I think that that's, by the way, that's human nature too.
So to me, I, I actually would, you know, would really also say, I want
to pitch to the educators who are listening to this, don't underestimate
your students to think that they're too young, too naive, too little knowledge,
too, too, too, whatever it is, your excuse are to think that They are not
good enough to do something useful.
I don't think that's true.
Don't you think that's?
I think you're absolutely right.
I mean, I work with students all day long and I advise students
on, um, you know, their, their learning and public portfolios.
And so one of the questions I ask them is, all right, so what do you do?
What did you, what did, what did you do?
How long were you involved in this?
What was your depth of work?
You know, kind of start with those smaller pieces.
Um, and we've got some incredibly talented, articulate, amazing students.
And no matter if you can come to a cohort on any Tuesday or Wednesday night, and you
can go up to any random student and say.
What is your project that you're working on?
And they will go into the spiel of everything they are doing.
Um, and it's because of it's something that you get to choose.
It's something that you are passionate about.
And so, I think one of the important pieces in the way that this has been,
um, that this has been rolled out is, is that not only do you care about what
you're doing, you have people around you who care about what you're doing.
And so, when you have a community of people that are invested, and even
though they might be just doing, you know, different tasks or have different
projects, the fact is, is that they're supportive of what you're trying to do.
They are trying to Help you get deeper and learn and reflect and There's
this camaraderie That happens and when somebody says oh, I can't I can't
I'm just like I'm overwhelmed And it's like it's okay to take a step
back and take a breath reevaluate, rework, refresh, revise And keep
going, because it's not a direct path.
There always are going to be bumps in the road, there's going to be humps,
there's going to be um, these deep valleys that you have to go through,
and then you come out on the other side, and, but really embracing
the points of reflective learning.
I think is really one of the biggest pieces and that's really the key
to what we think of when we have like a non traditional educational
system like College Unbound.
I have students who are, when they talk about their projects, I have
a student, um, who, you know, They, they did a family caregiving portfolio
because, you know, the grandmother had heart problems and so the daughter
is taking care of the kids, her kids.
She's taking care of her mother.
She has to, you know, she did a ton of research on her cardiac care.
She had to do a ton of research on meds, what meds she could use,
couldn't use, how they interact.
She didn't go to class for that.
She had to learn that on the job, right, in order to be, in order to be
safe and to help her mother through.
And at the same time, she's also in school full time, works
full time, and has two kids.
And so, those things that you're learning that, You don't even reaLizze you're
doing, like, taking care of somebody else and doing research to find out,
like, their, their whole, you know, and put a plan together of who's gonna do
what and hire a CNA and, like, those are not just skills people have random,
like, they, they, they have them, but it's not something like a skill set
you, you, you know or you're taught.
And that's where lived experience really comes in.
Because, I mean if you're an immigrant to the U.
S.
and you come here and you go through the whole process of, of, of becoming a U.
S.
citizen, like that's civic engagement, and they make you jump through hoops,
right, in order for that process to happen, and that's a big deal, and that's
creditworthy, but yet, unless you take a civics class, that's the only way
we're going to actually give you credit.
And by the way, these are not easy credits.
These were actually.
Gonna be way harder.
I mean, look, the credits that you got for your 29 years of work could have
been several, several PhDs, right?
What's up?
Probably!
Like, but, but, you know, but like, these are not easy, but these are, you know,
you do them not because, it's because you are driven by passion, you're driven
by a need that you needed to do it.
And that's, that's important.
I actually did exactly what you said, which is I talked to a couple of.
Graduates, um, when I came to visit and just anyone, right,
they're like, what's your project?
And she gave me, there was one student or alum who gave this amazing, um, project.
She, I think her best friend got, um, lost her life from
swimming in, uh, in the ocean.
I think it was a reptile, you know, taken her out and, and she drowned.
And, and the, so this.
Alumnus has in her first, was it like eight weeks, six weeks when
you start to do this project, right?
To find this project?
She decided that she wanted to create, uh, provide free swim lessons to children.
And the little did, if you, I mean when she said it, I'm like, oh my god, why
wouldn't anyone have thought about this?
Because for many inner city kids, many kids of, um, you know, less privileged,
Swimming lessons does not come for free, does not come out of nowhere.
Your kids don't just aren't born knowing how to swim.
You know, parents don't get the time to go and take them to go swim.
It's a, it's a serious privilege to go and, and take swim lessons.
And especially people of color, right?
And she said, what if I just prove and figure out how to
provide free swim lessons?
There would be So many more people who would not be in that situation
where they could drown just from, you know, being in the ocean.
And by the way, being in the ocean, being on the beach is the kind of thing that
most people, you know, if that's not your lived experience, most people will think
about, yeah, that's just a good sunny day.
We get to enjoy ourselves.
Of course our kids know how to swim because they took swim lessons when
they were young, but that's a privilege that not everyone gets to have.
Right.
And so for, for students at College Unbound, being able to figure that
out and turn it into a project.
This is why these projects are more successful than any pretend project
that we give to the students otherwise.
Absolutely.
I mean, I think that, you know, a couple of other things that I was
surprised just recently to know about College Unbound is that, you know,
we have a 96 percent graduation rate.
I don't know Any other college that has that.
And yes, we're still small and we're still growing.
You know, we are the toddler of colleges.
We've only been around for a few years, right?
We're still finding our footing.
To have the fact that you have 90 cent, 96 percent of your
graduates are successful is crazy.
You know, it's insane.
The other, the other statistic that I just learned and I was
floored by was that after Our students graduate College Unbound.
Forty percent.
40 percent end up in a master's degree program within three years.
And these are mostly students who did not succeed in traditional education,
had in fact probably dropped out once, twice, three times, and then come back.
And I mean, we have just, just thinking about just kind of the
populations of people that, that, that we have here right now at Unbound.
Um, um, We have a high percentage that probably over 80%, um, are women.
We have, um, women of color, um, Latinas, uh, right now kind of at the, the
highest, um, bracket, um, in regards to, you know, men, women, um, race.
We have, uh, the second highest is, um, the African American population for women.
here at College Unbound, which is huge.
Um, most of our students dropped out, stopped out, started college, you
know, um, more than 60 percent started college at some point, never finished.
That's crazy.
Like 60 percent of our students, like, never, and, and our average,
so yes, we have students that have come straight from high school.
Um, they're far and few between.
A lot of CalKIDS want to just go right into the traditional, which is fine.
Then there are some, um, a lot of our high school students from the Met,
hidden under the big picture, tend to be like, I want to go right into something
that I'm already familiar with and that's where College Unbound comes in.
Um, because they've already had those experiences in some different
ways, and they want to be able to continue on that journey.
But on average, our average age is 37.
You know, I mean, we have students that are, you know, go from anywhere
from, you know, 18 and up through, through somebody that we have student
right now is in her mid 70s, you know, and, and for her, College Unboun...,
college was never an opportunity.
And she raised her kids and she raised her family and she's raising grandkids.
And she said, I never had the opportunity.
Now is my time.
And so, you know, she's got to figure out a career.
She was a housewife, you know, and she took care of her kids and her
family and never really had the opportunity to work outside the home.
And now she has to work outside the home because that's the
only way she has that income.
And so from going from one thing to another and not having, you know, some
of those skills in regards and because she doesn't have a bachelor's degree,
you know, jobs are just, it's this whole, you know, system that is, is.
It's set up and it's not set up in a way that you feel like you
can, um, really be proactive or that you can really get there.
Like if the system is almost in a way to set you up to fail, right?
Unless you jump through these particular hoops.
And I think College Unbound is trying to Take down those barriers.
You have a transportation problem?
Let us help you figure it out.
You want to come to school in the evening?
Let's buy you, let's give you food.
Right?
You need childcare?
We're gonna supply that.
And so, we, we set people up to be successful.
If someone doesn't show up to class two times in a row, they get a text,
they get phone calls, what you doing, where you going, are you good, what
do you need, um, we need to know that.
You know, we also have, um, funds that we try to utiLizze in regards
to what if someone has a fire?
What if, um, someone is on the verge of becoming homeless?
Someone lost their apartment, someone needs help.
You know, rental assistance.
Someone doesn't have heat.
We also have set up ways and processes to help our students.
Someone's in need of a bed, right?
Let's put a call out to everybody to say, Anybody know where to get anything, right?
That's how you build your community.
We want to build it up.
Not tear it down.
And so when people step up, wow, do they step up, do they come out?
It's amazing.
And the support for other students around even not only just their academics,
but like the peer to peer conversations that happen around academics, um, and
the people that show up to support, you know, when you, when we say you
enter College Unbound and you've got, you know, 400 students at your back,
you know, it really is something.
It's not something that is just said, like you could feel
it because they will show up.
It's amazing.
It's, it's like, to me, it's like, you know, seeing, you know, how like sometimes
massive colleges, you know, have their sports teams, they show up for sports
teams, but this is like, this is for you.
And that, you know, everyone's showing up for you, right?
It's amazing.
And I, I, I also, um, I think it's, it's important to say that, especially
with, um, you know, learning in public, you know, College Unbound's version
of call, you know, give Credit for Prior Learning, especially for people
like yourself who, you know, had such, such a, such an amazing lift
experience, Wonderful career already.
A lot of that get translated into real credit set.
That really means that you can finish, um, your bachelor's degree in a
fraction of the time that it would take in a traditional institution.
Is that right?
I mean, we, we.
Traditionally, our four year institution, we have a four
year bachelor's degree program.
On average, someone coming in with absolutely no credit can usually get
their degree in about three years.
Um, if you are coming in with a little bit of credit, Um, or you're coming in with
your associate's degree, which is at least 60 credits, and so you need up to 120.
You're looking at probably a year and a half to two years at the most.
Um, then you have unique people, um, who are coming in with a ton of credits.
And they are in and out in one year.
Um, and so it really, you know, there's a combination of it's not
a, it's not a one size fits all.
There's a combination of, you know, how much credit are you bringing in?
What classes do you need?
You know, what was able to transfer?
And we're very generous when it comes to transfer.
We take just about everything.
We can't take, um, You know, there are some classes that we can't take
if they're remedial or things is just, you know, certain ways and
certain rules that we have to follow.
Um, but having those and then being able to say, okay, on top of my transfer
credit that I'm bringing in with me.
But I also have this lived experience, and how do I build
these portfolios to get them?
Um, and then those are assessed by, uh, my office, and we have a team of people,
of, um, assessors who have a Master's Degree or higher, or, uh, have very, uh,
specific expertise in a particular field.
And those are the folks who do the assessments for us and are able to, you
know, say it was at, um, you know, this many credits at this level and they're
also given feedback in ways, uh, not only, um, about their portfolio, but
ways they could also take it to the next step and make those portfolios deeper.
You mentioned portfolios a few times and one of the things that, I mean, I
feel like it's pretty clear that yes, people have done their work, they put
it together in a portfolio and you get to assess it and it's good, you
know, I think that's pretty clear.
One thing that I sort of wonder, I mean, I think you've done this,
so maybe you can tell us too.
When you put together a portfolio, you've got 29 years of experience,
you put together a portfolio, what does that feel like for you?
And do you, I, you know, are you learning anything about yourself,
you know, through that process?
Or what's the process like as in it of itself an education learning experience?
I think, um, I think it's a great experience.
I mean, I think like one of the ways that I usually coach students
is to say like, okay, um, you have all this lived experience.
Like I've had all this lived experience in my life.
How do you start to deconstruct what goes where?
Right?
So, make three columns, right?
So, here's your column and your title, your first one, Leadership,
or your title, your, your next one, Family Caregiving, and your title,
your next one, Civic Engagement, and then just make a lot, nobody's going
to see it, but the student, right?
So, then you make a laundry list of all the things that you've done that
fall under Leadership, all the things that you've done that fall under Civic
Engagement or Family Caregiving, and you start to think about not only,
As you have this list and you start to think about how did I get there?
And so for leadership, how did I become a leader in my community?
I showed up, I went to some trainings, I testified on a piece of legislation
at the state house, I talked to senators and representatives within the state, you
know, I had meetings with the coalition, I started to like, and so then you can
see, you know what I mean, so you can really like articulate and then you can
say, oh, and I remember like going up to the state house on this day and there
were 25 people that were going to testify in front of, you know, um, The Finance
Committee, and the Finance Committee is made up of these people, and, you know,
I think one of the things, like, I found with, with legislative work is, is that,
you know, when you go to the legislature, there's always these people at, like,
the legis, the legislators having side conversations as, like, they're doing
this, and I don't know how they can keep up all these conversations as they're
going, um, and then they're going through the legislation, and when people testify.
And I always found that when A parent, a student, or somebody who's out of
the realm of politics shows up to testify at a legislative hearing,
that person is listened to more than anybody else in the room because
you're not the "you know" regular, who shows up to lobby on stuff.
And that makes a huge difference.
Um, And I think that was one of the things that I found out was really
profound, Because I can go up to the statehouse and lobby all the time, right?
That was kind of in my role as a community organizer.
And After a while, they got sick of my testimony.
I had to bring a fresh face, a new story, right?
So I always bring somebody new.
And I think one of the things that when we, when we think about our lived
experience and we think about just how we would organize these buckets of criteria
to build a portfolio, you also have to think about the stories of impact, right?
And so I could tell you about my leadership role going up to the state
house, but I think a bigger impact is when I brought these three moms.
And they went up there to testify for the first time, and they were
nervous, and they were scared.
But you could hear a pin drop in that room because the side conversation stopped.
Right?
Because really, they had something to say.
And that was like a profound learning experience.
And I think we don't, some, a lot of times we are so, On the go and moving
from one thing to a next that we just we don't sit in in the way we should
just ponder and think and reflect and then one of the things that you learn at
College Unbound is is that in every way shape or form whether it's in a class
whether it is doing a portfolio whether it is, um, In your project, there's
a piece of reflection that happens.
There's what is going on right now, so I'm taking stock in my learning.
How do I look backward at what I've done and where I've been
and how I got to this point.
And then now I'm going to reflect forward on where I am and where I want to go.
And because you have that taking stock, reflecting backward and reflecting
forward in almost every area of College Unbound, um, sometimes people feel like,
oh my gosh, I'm reflecting all the time.
That's all I do is reflect.
But when you put that on paper, And you see what you've done in the classes you've
taken or the lip credit that you're able to get, it becomes extremely profound
because not only is this, it's not like a transcript, it almost turns into your
resume or like a CV of all of the things that you'd like, you know what I mean?
It, it, and people will look back on it and go, wow, I didn't
reaLizze I did that much stuff.
Oh, wow.
Like, that's cool.
I can't, I really did all that?
Like, it's, it's, because we don't, I think, first of all, as people,
we're very humble, um, and we don't give ourselves the extra credit.
And I'm guilty of that myself.
I do it all the time.
But at the same time, we are also not, we don't want to be boisterous.
We don't want to, um, we don't want to put ourselves on a pedestal.
But yet, I think we need to.
And so one of the things I always tell students when they're building a
portfolio is, this is your time to shine.
This is your chance to get up on a pedestal and dance and twirl
and, you know, give everybody everything that you've got and
everything that you've done.
And you should be able to celebrate that and be proud of that, right?
And, and be able to, to be confident in that.
That's why you got the credit, right?
Because it was really good stuff and it was really something profound.
But most of the time we're just walking by ourselves and, you
know, pat yourself on the back.
And when somebody says, Oh, you did a good job.
You don't really be like, but really, did I do a good job?
What did I do a good job for?
Like, we don't, we just kept like, Oh, thanks.
And keep going.
Right?
And this is a chance to really take a deep dive into self
reflection, into your skills.
into your commitment to yourself, to your community as a student and being
with like minded folks who also kind of want to be in that space of community
and be like, we can make impact, we can make things happen and it works.
Yeah, it's, it's, it really is amazing.
I, I'm, uh, I am, uh, I'm so grateful that you're able to share all this, Lizz.
Um, I think that Lizz, we've Our time has pretty much come to
an end here for today, for now.
I am so amazed by all the, all of the things that you and Adam Bush and your
colleagues at College Unbound have been able to accomplish, and I have little
doubt that, um, you know, in time we are going to see College Unbound being
a model that will be highly sought after in a lot of places, because, s...
we are, there are, you know.
There are universities that are willing to spend more than the
entire budget of College Unbound to improve their model today.
And they couldn't figure out, you know, how to do it, right?
And you all have figured out how to do it.
And I think some of it is also through this lived experience.
So it actually modeled itself, you know, at the institutional level as well.
You know, it's a, it's a really cool thing.
Um, uh, well, Lizz, thank you again.
Again, congratulations on all your success.
And, um, I, uh, look forward to, um, further, um, you know, um, uh, lot more
interactions with you all, you know, in, in the coming months and years.
And, uh, meanwhile, Um, for anyone who's interested in checking out College
Unbound, go to collegeunbound.edu and um, uh, we'll post to Lizz,
uh, Lizz's, um, social media, et cetera, um, along with this episode
so you can follow her and also to, uh, get in, get in touch with her.
Um, do you want to learn more about, um, uh, Learning in Public, um, You
know, if you're at another institution, you're struggling with college for prior
learning, this is the place, this is the, this is the place to go on and check out.
Lizz, am I right to say that you also have a paper that was
published recently, am I right?
Well, yes, I was, uh, actually involved in two, um, one that was, uh, one
that was published in regards to, um, establishing the, the, the, uh, LIP
program, um, when we first initiated that, and then, um, the second one is we
just did a white paper all on, uh, CPL.
So, yeah.
Yeah, we will put put those as links into the into into the show notes
so people can go and check it out Lizz again, thank you so much, and
I hope to talk to you again soon.
Okay.
Thank you for having me This is wonderful.
All right.
Take care coming up next.
We'll be chatting with Jose Rodriguez Assistant Vice Presidents of Community
and Belonging at College Unbound.
Here's a quick preview.
Just because I mispronounce a word, it isn't because I don't know the meaning
of the word, or I don't know how to say the word, but for anyone who speaks
multiple languages, sometimes it, that the words just get mixed up and, you
know, lost in translation as they say.