WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.008 --> 00:00:26.628 Anke: Hello and welcome, Matt. 00:00:26.688 --> 00:00:30.238 I'm very excited to have you here today because we've been trying for 00:00:30.238 --> 00:00:34.858 a while to find, uh, find and meet in the same place at the same time. 00:00:34.858 --> 00:00:35.828 So today's the day. 00:00:35.848 --> 00:00:36.768 Welcome, Matt. 00:00:37.298 --> 00:00:37.718 Matt: Thank you. 00:00:37.718 --> 00:00:41.798 I'm really glad to be here and thanks for your patience and, uh, and just thanks for 00:00:41.798 --> 00:00:46.488 your message that's out there too and what you're making available to people who, um, 00:00:47.988 --> 00:00:51.908 really want to feel enriched and fortified in their relationship with their dogs. 00:00:52.588 --> 00:00:54.278 Anke: Oh, I love, I love how you said that. 00:00:54.298 --> 00:00:55.138 I might steal that. 00:00:56.698 --> 00:01:02.478 So, let's start out, let people know where in this lovely world are you based, 00:01:02.498 --> 00:01:04.238 and what's your business with dogs? 00:01:04.658 --> 00:01:06.668 Matt: I'm currently based in Austin, Texas. 00:01:06.698 --> 00:01:08.548 We moved here about three and a half years ago. 00:01:08.548 --> 00:01:11.318 We were, prior to that, we were based in Los Angeles, California. 00:01:11.378 --> 00:01:16.798 And I am by profession, I'm a certified professional dog trainer, a family dog 00:01:16.798 --> 00:01:19.468 mediator, a licensed trainer in that area. 00:01:19.508 --> 00:01:26.328 And I am on a personal mission to help support transformation 00:01:26.338 --> 00:01:27.878 in humans with their dogs. 00:01:28.713 --> 00:01:33.923 And what that means is, um, really lending a lot of support and consideration towards 00:01:33.923 --> 00:01:38.643 the human involved in the human dog relationship, uh, that will always benefit 00:01:38.643 --> 00:01:40.523 dogs if humans feel more supported. 00:01:40.973 --> 00:01:44.673 And there's a lot of parallels, as, as you know, and probably maybe a number of 00:01:44.673 --> 00:01:48.773 your listeners would know too, there's a lot of parallels in the motto that, that's 00:01:48.773 --> 00:01:50.793 what's good for the dog is good for me. 00:01:50.823 --> 00:01:53.003 And I would even go so far as to say what's good for a 00:01:53.003 --> 00:01:54.353 dog is good for the world. 00:01:55.133 --> 00:01:57.393 So that's my general scope of things. 00:01:57.423 --> 00:02:01.423 Um, I started training about 16 years ago, and I should put training 00:02:01.423 --> 00:02:04.343 in quotes, because when I started, I was actually afraid of dogs. 00:02:04.343 --> 00:02:09.543 I'd been bit by a dog on Halloween when I was a kid, about 7 years old, and I, I 00:02:09.543 --> 00:02:13.423 was afraid of dogs well into adulthood, and I didn't know how to talk about it 00:02:13.423 --> 00:02:19.993 or who to talk to, and I was ashamed, and I saw an episode of, uh, of a TV 00:02:19.993 --> 00:02:21.723 show that was very popular at the time. 00:02:21.723 --> 00:02:24.663 And in that episode, that dog trainer helped a grown man 00:02:24.663 --> 00:02:26.073 get over his fear of dogs. 00:02:26.893 --> 00:02:30.633 And I thought that was possible. 00:02:30.633 --> 00:02:33.043 I didn't know that that was ever going to be possible for me. 00:02:33.823 --> 00:02:38.893 And, um, and at that time, while I was watching that episode, I was, 00:02:38.953 --> 00:02:42.513 I was living with somebody, my girlfriend at the time and her dog. 00:02:43.133 --> 00:02:47.223 Um, who is a nine month old terrier, which just meant he had a lot of feelings 00:02:47.223 --> 00:02:48.763 about things and a lot of opinions. 00:02:49.478 --> 00:02:53.488 and a lot of needs, but he was, um, he was understandably 00:02:53.498 --> 00:02:55.248 incorrectly judged as aggressive. 00:02:55.968 --> 00:03:00.678 So here I am afraid of dogs, and I'm living with this mighty, mighty terrier, 00:03:01.658 --> 00:03:04.878 and this terrier is probably thinking, what have I done to deserve this guy? 00:03:07.053 --> 00:03:09.703 Um, but I was, uh, I'm open about this too. 00:03:09.703 --> 00:03:14.393 So I want to include this in, in this, um, little intro here that, um, I was 00:03:14.413 --> 00:03:18.953 at the same time, I was also recovering from a pretty bad problem with alcohol. 00:03:19.323 --> 00:03:22.373 And, uh, and so I was getting sober and I don't recommend 00:03:22.373 --> 00:03:24.683 detoxing and moving in with a dog. 00:03:25.623 --> 00:03:28.013 That's a nine month old terrier when you're afraid of dogs. 00:03:28.303 --> 00:03:29.633 I don't recommend that for anybody. 00:03:30.373 --> 00:03:31.733 Uh, but that's how I started. 00:03:31.733 --> 00:03:35.923 And part of what this dog who he would become my dog, my girlfriend and I, we 00:03:35.923 --> 00:03:40.938 split up, but the dog ended up With me, um, part of what Kingston gave me was 00:03:40.958 --> 00:03:44.698 access to the world again, because I was terrified, I didn't know how to behave 00:03:44.698 --> 00:03:48.808 in the world, much like a dog might feel, I didn't, I didn't feel like I belonged, 00:03:48.888 --> 00:03:54.138 and, um, I needed to get him out, A, to go to the bathroom, B, to go explore 00:03:54.138 --> 00:03:57.698 the world, and so helping him literally got me back out in the world again. 00:03:58.628 --> 00:03:59.898 And that was the beginning of it. 00:04:00.058 --> 00:04:04.278 And then, um, I've had a lot of opportunities and experience in my 00:04:04.278 --> 00:04:09.268 life, and I'm what we would now call as a crossover trainer, and, and, uh, I'm 00:04:09.268 --> 00:04:13.328 so grateful to, to know what I know now and have the support that I have, and to 00:04:13.338 --> 00:04:19.348 be able to share, um, transparently and openly about where I've come from, why 00:04:19.348 --> 00:04:23.748 it seems like it works, what the harm might be, why it doesn't necessarily work, 00:04:23.748 --> 00:04:28.258 and to be honest about the frustrations, because I think It's really hard on dog 00:04:28.268 --> 00:04:33.488 people in general because, um, they think the trainers have it figured out and they 00:04:33.488 --> 00:04:38.688 don't know that, that, um, that we have struggles, struggles just like theirs. 00:04:39.308 --> 00:04:43.038 Uh, and we have, hopefully we have places we can go and learn and 00:04:43.108 --> 00:04:45.208 practice and, and, and evolve. 00:04:46.198 --> 00:04:50.008 But I, I just know that if I didn't get the kind of support that I've gotten, 00:04:50.598 --> 00:04:54.268 even though people were justifiably critical of what I, what I had put out 00:04:54.268 --> 00:04:57.538 there, particularly on a television show. 00:04:58.118 --> 00:05:01.918 If I hadn't gotten the support, um, I wouldn't be able to show up for 00:05:01.918 --> 00:05:03.428 my dogs the way that I do today. 00:05:03.428 --> 00:05:05.628 So that's part of my personal mission here too. 00:05:06.713 --> 00:05:09.763 Anke: Wow, I love that you're sharing all of that because I think there's a lot 00:05:09.763 --> 00:05:14.403 of shame in, you know, even like, like not even just professionals, but like 00:05:14.433 --> 00:05:20.913 people who feel, I know this isn't quite right, but I don't know what else to do 00:05:20.943 --> 00:05:23.033 and nothing else seems to be working. 00:05:25.713 --> 00:05:30.173 And I, in my own experience, I like, my, my whole, for me, 00:05:30.173 --> 00:05:31.673 it all started with this guy. 00:05:32.083 --> 00:05:35.033 And, you know, and he got bitten when he was little. 00:05:35.033 --> 00:05:38.642 And so he was like stressed and, and everybody told me, you know, 00:05:38.643 --> 00:05:40.023 you have to tell them who's boss. 00:05:40.053 --> 00:05:43.283 And, and, you know, and I was in this, like, it doesn't make sense to me. 00:05:43.483 --> 00:05:47.993 This little dog doesn't look like as he is, he's trying to take over the world. 00:05:48.463 --> 00:05:51.013 But like, I didn't have an alternative. 00:05:51.033 --> 00:05:53.073 Like, I didn't know else to look. 00:05:53.073 --> 00:05:53.803 And everybody. 00:05:54.338 --> 00:05:56.338 kind of looked at me as if I'm nuts. 00:05:57.228 --> 00:06:00.958 And so it kind of can be quite lonely when you don't actually have. 00:06:00.968 --> 00:06:03.958 It feels like that's why I'm so passionate about to bring people together. 00:06:03.958 --> 00:06:08.338 We said, well, yeah, actually now we have access to other information 00:06:08.378 --> 00:06:09.888 and, and, and better ways. 00:06:10.288 --> 00:06:17.618 So how did you, I mean, actually like one question to start, like at what point 00:06:17.628 --> 00:06:22.188 did you know from, okay, I've gotten my over my own fear and I've gotten. 00:06:22.613 --> 00:06:26.663 Sort of really, this relationship has given me a lot to, oh, actually I want 00:06:26.663 --> 00:06:28.343 to help other people with their dogs. 00:06:29.583 --> 00:06:32.783 And, um, and then I'm curious about sort of that, that 00:06:32.793 --> 00:06:34.373 transition, but we'll get to that. 00:06:34.813 --> 00:06:35.163 Matt: Yeah. 00:06:35.203 --> 00:06:35.603 Thank you. 00:06:35.853 --> 00:06:38.873 I want to just touch on something you said I think is really important and 00:06:38.873 --> 00:06:40.773 that's the isolation that people feel. 00:06:41.613 --> 00:06:46.053 Um, that's, that's, that's an experience people are having worldwide, 00:06:46.103 --> 00:06:49.213 obviously, given the conflict that we're in, this feeling that we're 00:06:49.213 --> 00:06:50.883 not a part of, we're apart from. 00:06:51.763 --> 00:06:55.753 Um, and we're, unfortunately, we're no better off in the dog world, maybe even 00:06:56.243 --> 00:06:58.963 more polarizing, I suppose, in many ways. 00:07:00.113 --> 00:07:03.383 Um, cause that's really a, really hard place to be. 00:07:03.533 --> 00:07:06.103 Um, um, living with a dog is hard. 00:07:06.103 --> 00:07:07.093 It's hard for the dog. 00:07:07.093 --> 00:07:08.173 It's hard for the human. 00:07:08.253 --> 00:07:13.863 Uh, but living with a dog with behaviors that lead to isolation, that's, that's 00:07:13.873 --> 00:07:17.653 really common and it's really difficult. 00:07:18.773 --> 00:07:23.603 And, um, and that's, uh, uh, there's a lot of despair that comes from that. 00:07:23.603 --> 00:07:23.963 So. 00:07:25.523 --> 00:07:31.623 So for me, um, I think that, I think, uh, uh, in your instant, in answer 00:07:31.623 --> 00:07:39.713 to your question, there was, I had this sense, even as people, even as 00:07:39.713 --> 00:07:43.773 my clients were saying, I'm seeing amazing changes in, in my dog. 00:07:43.833 --> 00:07:48.813 I had this sense when we were at the height of our popularity in Los 00:07:48.813 --> 00:07:52.463 Angeles with a, with a community of dogs that were not, they were 00:07:52.463 --> 00:07:53.823 kicked out of other daycares. 00:07:53.843 --> 00:07:55.413 They weren't welcome in other daycares. 00:07:55.443 --> 00:07:57.183 They couldn't pass personality tests. 00:07:58.143 --> 00:08:03.173 Um, I had this sense that it didn't matter how afraid I was, 00:08:03.183 --> 00:08:04.443 I needed to be able to help them. 00:08:04.443 --> 00:08:08.463 And there was a really important shift for me when I had a chance to hear Dr. 00:08:08.463 --> 00:08:11.153 Ian Dunbar speak and actually speak with him privately. 00:08:11.153 --> 00:08:14.613 And he said, he'd said at the time, roughly 90 percent 00:08:14.613 --> 00:08:15.923 of aggression is fear based. 00:08:15.943 --> 00:08:21.433 And I could relate to that so much as a human that I really, most of what 00:08:21.433 --> 00:08:23.443 I have done is because I was afraid. 00:08:24.193 --> 00:08:28.783 And I thought maybe if I, if I can scare you or if I can make 00:08:28.783 --> 00:08:32.393 you go away, you know, like there would, that would bring me relief. 00:08:33.223 --> 00:08:37.733 So that was a really healthy anthropomorphization for me 00:08:38.013 --> 00:08:39.573 to consider dogs differently. 00:08:39.573 --> 00:08:43.713 And once I begin to see the behavior from different, different motives 00:08:43.713 --> 00:08:47.453 than what I was assigning them, I didn't take the behavior personally. 00:08:47.663 --> 00:08:53.253 And that saved me so much stress and Um, it really was the cure for 00:08:53.253 --> 00:08:56.433 my fear that the thing that I was afraid of, having been bitten by a 00:08:56.433 --> 00:09:00.023 German Shepherd all those years ago, was based on a misunderstanding. 00:09:00.633 --> 00:09:03.733 And the Shepherd was wagging its tail on Halloween when I was seven years 00:09:03.733 --> 00:09:05.093 old and I reached for the bucket. 00:09:05.853 --> 00:09:08.623 And the adults, knowing what they knew and not knowing what 00:09:08.623 --> 00:09:11.683 they didn't know, they all said a wagging tail means the dog is happy. 00:09:12.613 --> 00:09:15.573 And we know professionally that that's not the reality of it. 00:09:17.078 --> 00:09:22.838 So getting that gift of objectivity and context and consideration for the behavior 00:09:22.838 --> 00:09:24.928 really changed my, changed my life. 00:09:24.958 --> 00:09:28.818 But as you know, there's, you know, when one is considered the, the 00:09:28.978 --> 00:09:32.848 expert and I was not the expert, I still don't consider myself an expert 00:09:32.848 --> 00:09:34.628 though I'm 16 years in the field here. 00:09:35.793 --> 00:09:39.753 But when we go to the expert for the solution, um, 00:09:39.883 --> 00:09:41.363 oftentimes we just need relief. 00:09:41.373 --> 00:09:45.363 I'm kind of shocked when my clients will say, you know, that one phone 00:09:45.363 --> 00:09:46.893 call we had really made a difference. 00:09:47.343 --> 00:09:51.643 And I'm, I'm grateful that I have learned how to offer support in a 20 minute 00:09:51.643 --> 00:09:53.333 phone call or in a single session. 00:09:53.773 --> 00:09:56.183 But I, and I know there's so much more. 00:09:56.363 --> 00:09:58.783 There's so much more opportunity and growth, etc. 00:10:00.373 --> 00:10:03.373 So when I'm talking to people at that height of our popularity, and they're 00:10:03.373 --> 00:10:06.003 saying, you know, I'm following some of your recommendations, and we're 00:10:06.003 --> 00:10:09.913 seeing some amazing changes, and I know that there's something else, 00:10:09.933 --> 00:10:16.943 like, but I can't stop this 15, 15 person staff facility, that's 24 00:10:16.943 --> 00:10:18.683 7, like, I can't stop the machine. 00:10:20.598 --> 00:10:22.208 What am I going to do about this? 00:10:22.748 --> 00:10:26.258 And, um, the timing was quite interesting because at that point 00:10:26.258 --> 00:10:29.718 we had the first season of this television show that I did that was out. 00:10:30.248 --> 00:10:33.608 And when I watched the rough draft of the television show before it 00:10:33.608 --> 00:10:37.058 went public, I looked at it and I thought, I don't like what I'm doing 00:10:38.328 --> 00:10:39.838 and I don't like how I'm doing it. 00:10:39.838 --> 00:10:42.438 And there's things I wish I had done differently or things that 00:10:42.438 --> 00:10:44.178 I wish I hadn't done at all. 00:10:45.538 --> 00:10:46.838 And this is going to be a problem. 00:10:47.858 --> 00:10:48.418 And so. 00:10:48.863 --> 00:10:53.413 Before the, the understandable professional backlash to that 00:10:53.593 --> 00:10:59.033 show, before that even happened, I reached out to somebody asking 00:10:59.073 --> 00:11:01.453 for help because I needed new help. 00:11:02.438 --> 00:11:06.388 And, uh, and that person, um, I've talked about this quite a bit, that person was 00:11:06.388 --> 00:11:10.518 Michael Shikashio, and Michael Shikashio, bless him, the first thing he said is, 00:11:10.528 --> 00:11:16.328 your name seems kind of familiar, and, uh, and, um, it must be hard for you 00:11:16.328 --> 00:11:19.728 to work with dogs and learn new things with all the controversy around you. 00:11:20.098 --> 00:11:21.688 What an unbelievably 00:11:24.148 --> 00:11:25.172 generous, uh, person. 00:11:26.273 --> 00:11:30.143 offering he made, you know, and so I started picking his brain. 00:11:30.143 --> 00:11:34.433 And then when we got a chance to film a second season, I said, I I'm going to, 00:11:34.523 --> 00:11:39.623 I'm going to show the evolution of a dog trainer myself, and I'm committed to 00:11:39.623 --> 00:11:43.163 becoming a certified, the only certified professional dog trainer on television. 00:11:43.708 --> 00:11:47.398 At that time, maybe, maybe not anymore, but I said, I'm going 00:11:47.398 --> 00:11:48.948 to use this as an opportunity. 00:11:49.478 --> 00:11:51.868 And the network said, that's great, man. 00:11:51.898 --> 00:11:52.618 We'll let you do that. 00:11:52.618 --> 00:11:56.018 But really like, don't, don't focus on education too much. 00:11:56.018 --> 00:11:57.248 Cause it's not going to sell. 00:11:57.818 --> 00:11:58.978 That's what I was told. 00:11:59.548 --> 00:12:00.098 Anke: Yeah. 00:12:00.278 --> 00:12:00.678 That's 00:12:00.688 --> 00:12:01.028 Matt: so, 00:12:01.428 --> 00:12:01.838 Anke: Oh, that 00:12:01.838 --> 00:12:03.388 Matt: journey has been a weird one. 00:12:03.638 --> 00:12:07.358 Um, but that's like, that's a, that's a segment of it when we're 00:12:07.358 --> 00:12:10.658 talking about, you know, how do I grow and where the fear is? 00:12:10.708 --> 00:12:14.913 That's, that's been a, That's a really meaty part of it because I 00:12:16.158 --> 00:12:18.498 I was being publicly reinforced. 00:12:19.378 --> 00:12:19.658 Yeah. 00:12:19.808 --> 00:12:24.598 I knew better and I knew I needed help and I didn't know how to get the 00:12:24.598 --> 00:12:26.358 help and I couldn't stop the machine. 00:12:27.918 --> 00:12:28.078 That's 00:12:28.248 --> 00:12:32.688 Anke: such a difficult one because on the one hand you've got the exposure to reach 00:12:32.698 --> 00:12:38.628 a lot of people and on the other hand you don't Control over doing it with your way. 00:12:38.718 --> 00:12:42.408 It's like, ooh, that's like, that's almost worse than not reaching people, right. 00:12:42.408 --> 00:12:47.148 Than sort of reaching them with something you're not really standing behind anymore. 00:12:47.208 --> 00:12:47.268 Yeah. 00:12:47.418 --> 00:12:52.868 So what's the biggest change in how you work with people? 00:12:52.868 --> 00:12:54.188 Or like, what's the outcome? 00:12:54.188 --> 00:12:54.998 Like what's the. 00:12:55.253 --> 00:12:59.423 What, for you, what feels like, and then sometimes, you know, on the outside 00:12:59.483 --> 00:13:02.643 people might just be happy now and they were happy, like, you know, like it may 00:13:02.643 --> 00:13:05.943 not be that visible on the outside, but what's the biggest difference for you? 00:13:06.143 --> 00:13:11.628 Matt: Well, I would say for me, um, I, I have Um, I have just learned how to 00:13:11.638 --> 00:13:15.258 simplify everything, which is interesting because I know, I know so much more 00:13:15.258 --> 00:13:18.908 than I ever did, and I have a better contextual understanding of what I've 00:13:18.908 --> 00:13:24.848 done, uh, than I ever have, and really it's quite simple, like, I'm here to help 00:13:24.848 --> 00:13:26.948 take the pressure off you and your dog. 00:13:27.678 --> 00:13:28.118 That's it. 00:13:29.548 --> 00:13:31.388 And, and what does that look like? 00:13:31.608 --> 00:13:32.648 Well, let's talk about it. 00:13:33.098 --> 00:13:35.488 Where do you really have the greatest struggles? 00:13:35.488 --> 00:13:37.318 Well, on the leash with walking. 00:13:37.398 --> 00:13:37.818 Okay. 00:13:38.138 --> 00:13:39.158 How's your dog sleeping? 00:13:39.918 --> 00:13:41.188 He doesn't sleep very well. 00:13:41.668 --> 00:13:43.698 You know, he's easily disturbed and okay. 00:13:43.698 --> 00:13:47.288 So he might have a hard time on the walks if he's not sleeping well. 00:13:48.008 --> 00:13:49.478 Oh, okay. 00:13:50.678 --> 00:13:51.348 You know what I mean? 00:13:51.348 --> 00:13:57.148 And then we start to build a basis that's a foundation that or build or, or fortify 00:13:57.148 --> 00:13:58.758 a foundation that's wellness based. 00:14:00.048 --> 00:14:01.928 What does your dog like to do and love to do? 00:14:01.938 --> 00:14:03.718 What's its genetic predisposition? 00:14:03.718 --> 00:14:05.468 Are you getting any of those needs met? 00:14:06.708 --> 00:14:08.928 Uh, not really. 00:14:08.928 --> 00:14:11.758 Well, my dog loves fetch, but he's just hyper obsessed. 00:14:12.028 --> 00:14:15.398 Uh, that's so Hyper focus might not be great for the nervous system, but 00:14:15.398 --> 00:14:18.798 is there a way that we can utilize that in a way that's going to be 00:14:20.578 --> 00:14:22.368 fulfilling for this dog, you know? 00:14:22.448 --> 00:14:24.828 I just keep coming back to how do I take the pressure off? 00:14:24.828 --> 00:14:27.678 So I feel much more nimble and skilled. 00:14:28.173 --> 00:14:30.373 And I guess the other thing, even though we're in a results driven 00:14:30.373 --> 00:14:35.283 business and industry and arguably world, I'm really comfortable 00:14:35.293 --> 00:14:36.973 going in and saying, I don't know. 00:14:38.113 --> 00:14:38.703 I don't know. 00:14:38.923 --> 00:14:40.773 We're going to find out and I'm going to ask your dog. 00:14:40.803 --> 00:14:42.223 And that is also a cornerstone. 00:14:42.223 --> 00:14:45.443 I'm going to help take pressure off by way of learning what is 00:14:45.443 --> 00:14:47.103 and isn't pressure for your dog. 00:14:48.123 --> 00:14:50.503 And then everything else like we can fill in the blanks with. 00:14:50.848 --> 00:14:51.268 You know, 00:14:52.218 --> 00:14:52.708 Anke: I love that. 00:14:52.738 --> 00:14:55.578 I think that, you know, the Tiggernet really reminds me of 00:14:55.628 --> 00:14:58.478 how similar we actually are. 00:14:58.568 --> 00:15:02.548 You know, when I work with people in my, you know, with clients in my 00:15:02.548 --> 00:15:07.038 work, that's people, you know, first thing is let's take the pressure, zero 00:15:07.038 --> 00:15:12.398 pressure, like let's, You know, just relax into it because we just function 00:15:12.408 --> 00:15:16.948 better when, you know, and dogs are the same, animal, anybody is the same. 00:15:17.428 --> 00:15:22.218 And, and I love the, the holistic approach that we don't just fix 00:15:22.218 --> 00:15:27.308 the symptoms because if we go to the root of it, then most of the 00:15:27.308 --> 00:15:28.812 time there's nothing left to fix. 00:15:29.203 --> 00:15:29.583 Matt: Yeah. 00:15:29.673 --> 00:15:30.443 Yeah, that is right. 00:15:30.443 --> 00:15:32.343 And that's been, that's been amazing. 00:15:32.343 --> 00:15:35.703 Like anecdotally, I can say in the last few years that I've committed to working 00:15:35.703 --> 00:15:41.303 that way that easily 60 to 70 percent of the quote behavior problems go away. 00:15:41.683 --> 00:15:42.793 And I didn't do any training. 00:15:44.953 --> 00:15:45.313 Yeah. 00:15:46.073 --> 00:15:49.003 I I'm not even comfortable really calling myself a trainer. 00:15:49.043 --> 00:15:53.423 And I don't think I even think like at best, I'm a learner. 00:15:53.513 --> 00:15:55.323 Like I come in, I'm the learner. 00:15:55.323 --> 00:15:56.543 I'm the primary learner. 00:15:57.483 --> 00:16:01.003 And the dog is the teacher, and then the other people are observers, and then 00:16:01.003 --> 00:16:05.863 I can, I can, I can, the dog's people, they're learning also, but, but really 00:16:05.863 --> 00:16:11.083 like, let's create a space where we have the freedom to observe, and then 00:16:11.113 --> 00:16:12.883 we'll build up our learning experience. 00:16:13.833 --> 00:16:15.553 Anke: So you're the translator, basically. 00:16:15.553 --> 00:16:21.253 You understand dog, and then you explain, you know, I think you, your job is to 00:16:21.253 --> 00:16:27.718 help the dog's people to actually be able to understand what the dog's saying. 00:16:28.098 --> 00:16:28.448 Matt: Yes. 00:16:28.448 --> 00:16:31.848 I would actually take it a step further because I feel very strongly that I am 00:16:31.848 --> 00:16:33.868 not the Zen dog, but I'm its curator. 00:16:33.918 --> 00:16:38.718 And, and the, the ethos of the Zen dog is that we have the freedom to 00:16:38.718 --> 00:16:41.918 explore and express who we are as dogs. 00:16:42.538 --> 00:16:48.108 And that the, the logo of the Zen dog, which is not the logo behind me, that's 00:16:48.248 --> 00:16:51.428 actually a project that I'm working on in the same spirit, but the logo of 00:16:51.428 --> 00:16:53.478 the Zen dog has an open ended circle. 00:16:54.153 --> 00:16:58.523 Because there's always more information to get and, spoiler alert, if anybody 00:16:58.523 --> 00:17:03.213 looks at the Zen Dog logo, you will find in the middle of the logo 00:17:03.283 --> 00:17:05.123 is the image of a sitting Buddha. 00:17:05.303 --> 00:17:10.823 That's in the pad of the Zen Dog logo so that one can practice being at peace 00:17:10.853 --> 00:17:13.763 with growth and life and the unknown. 00:17:14.743 --> 00:17:21.583 Being comfortable with being uncomfortable is a skill set that I had to learn and it 00:17:21.583 --> 00:17:24.013 has changed my life and my work with dogs. 00:17:24.418 --> 00:17:24.748 Anke: Yeah. 00:17:24.888 --> 00:17:28.898 And I would, I would bet my life that it would actually apply 00:17:28.928 --> 00:17:30.418 to all areas of life as well. 00:17:30.418 --> 00:17:31.717 Matt: I 00:17:32.978 --> 00:17:33.458 Anke: love that. 00:17:33.818 --> 00:17:37.468 So if somebody wants to find out more and get in touch with you, 00:17:37.548 --> 00:17:39.038 what's the best place to go? 00:17:39.578 --> 00:17:41.508 Matt: Well, you can find us at thezendog. 00:17:41.808 --> 00:17:42.258 com. 00:17:42.298 --> 00:17:46.548 And, uh, one of the things that I'm really, I really appreciate about our, our 00:17:46.578 --> 00:17:52.438 business model is, uh, that I'm accessible and you can book a 20 minute free courtesy 00:17:52.438 --> 00:17:54.758 Zoom or a phone consult at any time. 00:17:55.178 --> 00:17:58.578 Happy to talk to anybody, anywhere, anytime, if I can be helpful. 00:17:59.138 --> 00:18:04.868 And then I'm, um, I'm generally pretty active on Instagram and, uh, and 00:18:04.868 --> 00:18:08.858 Facebook, but I've been quiet lately in part, because I'm working on a 00:18:08.858 --> 00:18:12.708 project called Dog Pupil Evolution, which is a global conference, which 00:18:12.708 --> 00:18:17.168 is sent to launch in late 2025. 00:18:17.218 --> 00:18:20.408 And we will have, uh, over 20 virtual speakers. 00:18:20.968 --> 00:18:23.428 And, um, 10 live speakers. 00:18:23.428 --> 00:18:26.518 The live presentation is going to be held outside of Stockholm, Sweden. 00:18:27.538 --> 00:18:34.318 And we have a lot of new voices, amazing voices, uh, really well 00:18:34.318 --> 00:18:36.478 known voices in the dog care field. 00:18:36.498 --> 00:18:39.428 And we are gathering for one single purpose, and that's 00:18:39.428 --> 00:18:41.268 to support human change. 00:18:41.268 --> 00:18:45.208 Because if we want to help more dogs, we have to learn how to help more humans. 00:18:45.868 --> 00:18:48.478 And, uh, That, that will be available. 00:18:48.478 --> 00:18:49.908 Tickets will be available soon. 00:18:49.938 --> 00:18:54.088 Promotions will go out soon and, um, and that's my goal. 00:18:54.098 --> 00:18:58.178 My goal is to help the people that, that, that love their dog but want 00:18:58.178 --> 00:18:59.928 a new, know new ways to love them. 00:19:01.098 --> 00:19:01.438 Anke: I love that. 00:19:02.028 --> 00:19:04.728 Matt: Do that without shame, without judgment, and in a 00:19:04.728 --> 00:19:05.398 Anke: community. 00:19:06.163 --> 00:19:06.663 I love that. 00:19:07.033 --> 00:19:09.443 So when that promo goes out, please let me know. 00:19:09.443 --> 00:19:13.833 I would love to share, help share the message and spread the word. 00:19:13.853 --> 00:19:15.543 So thank you so much. 00:19:15.993 --> 00:19:18.973 And, um, this was an absolute delight, and I hope it won't be 00:19:18.973 --> 00:19:20.293 the last time that we've met. 00:19:20.853 --> 00:19:21.253 Matt: It won't. 00:19:21.323 --> 00:19:22.263 Thank you so much. 00:19:24.308 --> 00:19:25.538 Thanks so much for listening. 00:19:26.058 --> 00:19:30.358 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:19:30.458 --> 00:19:32.238 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:19:33.028 --> 00:19:36.518 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:19:36.948 --> 00:19:42.518 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:19:42.618 --> 00:19:44.988 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:19:44.988 --> 00:19:48.718 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:19:49.138 --> 00:19:50.278 I'd love an introduction. 00:19:50.758 --> 00:19:52.588 Email me at Anke. 00:19:52.858 --> 00:19:57.093 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.