The Modern Hotelier #250: Lessons in Luxury Hospitality & Leadership | with Mark Harmon of Auberge Resorts
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David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier, the most engaged podcast in hospitality. Don't forget to follow, like, and subscribe and let us know in the comments what you think about today's episode. Steve, who do we have on the program today? 
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, excited for this conversation. We have on Mark Harmon, the Founder of Auberge Resort Collection. Thanks for joining us, Mark. How you doing today? 
Mark Harmon: Doing great. Thank you. 
David Millili: Alright, Mark, so we're gonna dive in. We're gonna go through a lightning round. We're gonna, again, get to know you better, and then we're gonna dive into some industry topics. Sound good? 
Mark Harmon: Sounds great. Let's go. 
David Millili: All right. What did you want to be when you were growing up? 
Mark Harmon: President of the United States. 
David Millili: Okay. Something you wish you were better at? 
Mark Harmon: Surfing. 
David Millili: Okay. What's a luxury you can't live without? 
Mark Harmon: A great breakfast. 
David Millili: Name a person, dead or alive you'd like to take to lunch?
Mark Harmon: Ooh, yeah, that's a good one. There's so many, it might be William Blake, the poet. 
David Millili: Okay. Alright, so if you could have a superpower, what superpower would you like to have? 
Mark Harmon: I'd like to be able to bring change, meaningful change to the world. I mean, you know, it doesn't get better than that. Right. Make a difference.
David Millili: I agree. All right. And let everyone know what's something that's on your bucket list? 
Mark Harmon: Man, well, as I said, I'd love to be a better surfer taking that up recently. So I'd love to ride some waves and get barreled. 
Steve Carran: That's great. That's great. So Mark, now we're gonna learn a little bit about your background and what makes you tick. So you spent a lot of time in the Napa area as you were growing up. Is that correct? 
Mark Harmon: That's correct. Yep. 
Steve Carran: So how did growing up in Napa kind of shape you into who you are today? 
Mark Harmon: Well, Napa is a beautiful place and over the years spending that much time up there, I've really seen it grow. You know what's so special about Napa is it's retained, it's agricultural character. I mean, there are wineries, there's some restaurants, but essentially it's all pretty much in Vineyard. 95% of the county is in vineyard end. You know, that just gave me a great appreciation for the preservation and of a great lifestyle there and of nature, it could have been paved over, it could have looked like a subdivision, but you know, the people there, the politicians and the community were, they had the foresight to be able to preserve this agricultural way of life. And it's a really special place. 
David Millili: So you got your bachelor's from Princeton and then your law degree from University of California. What led you to those universities and, and the law degree? 
Mark Harmon: Well, growing up in California, I wanted to experience the East Coast, so I had the opportunity to attend Princeton, which was really a incredible experience, not only just a wonderful education, but seeing different part of the world and the United States and learning more about culture, the East Coast and meeting so many people from so many different backgrounds, and that was just fantastic. And then went on to law school, which was kind of a traditional path, I'd say a well-worn path and that my father was a lawyer. My older brother was a lawyer, my younger brother's lawyer. So following a little bit of the family footsteps there. 
Steve Carran: So one thing I found when doing my research about you, Mark, is you do not like long hallways as someone who is in the hospitality space has luxury resorts, surprising to find that. But tell me a little bit about why you don't like long hallways. 
Mark Harmon: The model for me forming Auberge Resorts, and it's now called the Auberge Collection, is the Auberge de Soleil, which opened as a restaurant in 1981, and then the cottages were added later.
Every one of the cottages has its own dedicated entrance, its own dedicated deck, their beautiful, spacious rooms with views out over the Napa Valley. I just thought in, in my mind, gosh, I'm gonna build more hotels, which I ended up doing and really loving. You know what a great model that is. Not to have to walk down a hallway and see other people. You have the sense of privacy and when you're building to the luxury standards, it's something that we found the guests truly prized is that sense of privacy, exclusion. You know, having your little sanctuary there and especially because we really have focused to great degree on the romantic getaway. And what's more romantic than that? Having a little cottage on a hillside overlooking the Napa Valley. 
Steve Carran: Kinda leads perfectly to my next question, but we're gonna dive into your career, how you ended up, you know, founding Abridge Resort collection. So, like you said, in 1981, your dad, Bob, he joined up with a French restaurateur Claude, is it roas? 
Mark Harmon: Yes, 
Steve Carran: And they open up ADU sole in Napa Valley. Then you had a guest rooms in 1985. You were a lawyer for six years, then got bit by the hospitality bug. What was that final straw where you're like, I'm leaving law and I'm gonna go join my dad in his hotel business?
Mark Harmon: Well, I gotta tell you, you know, I love the aspects of the law business that I was in, we were forming companies. It was kind of in the heart of what was happening in Silicon Valley, and companies were going public, it was biotech, there was software and so forth. But as a lawyer. He ended up pushing a lot of paper and the creativity to it was nice, but it was a smaller percentage of the overall workforce, and I love creating things.
So I looked beyond the practice a law to try to find an area that where I could be creative, where I could build things, build things that would last and have real value. And I had a perfect model in the Auberge sole, which my dad had started with his partner Claude. 
David Millili: So with that transition, is there something from your legal background that you really take with you and really get to apply on a day-to-day basis in hospitality?
Mark Harmon: Well, that's a great question. As a matter of fact, I've found myself having to unlearn many things. I was trained as a lawyer for in particular, you know, I needed to transition to becoming a leader rather than someone questioning and, you know, trying to pull things apart, acting, you know, in the best interest of the client, you've gotta anticipate all sorts of problems. Now, that's an important skill, but at the end of the day as an entrepreneur and as a leader, you have to take risks. You have to believe in people, you have to lead with empathy and some of the characteristics that are not exactly, you know, what a lawyer has. 
David Millili: Yeah. 
Steve Carran: So in 1998. You decided to expand one hotel to multiple hotels, kind of as you say, creating the collection. What caused you and your father to decide to expand that collection? And can you tell us to where you are currently and how you've grown since 1985? 
Mark Harmon: So in starting the Auberge Collection, which is a management company, my primary goal was to build hotels, having been in the real estate business, because I transitioned from being a lawyer into the development business, real estate development, and found out pretty quickly that you really need to have an excellent management company to be able to, you know, see these assets perform, whether they're shopping centers or office buildings or whatever, is so much more true in terms of hotels. Hotels are living, breathing things, you know, and you've got people and you have to deliver a great experience. So to me, the first step was to form this management company. And what we found was that we were being approached by a number of people real estate developers and owners that wanted to capture the magic of the de Soleil.
So the de Soleil, you know, as a romantic hideaway had a really great connection to the guests. It was a place where people came for proposals and engagements and celebrations, birthdays, all sorts of things, or just simply getting away with your loved one and, you know, forgetting about life on a daily basis and enjoying the beauty of the Napa Valley, maybe having a glass of wine or two. And so, we had that connection and we found people coming to us saying, you know, we'd like to bottle some of that magic. Can you help us out? We've got a hotel project here. The first one was in Cabo, and I'd spent a little time down in Cabo Fun place.
When I went there, it was fairly wild, fairly undeveloped. But Las Ventas had just opened up and it was very, very successful. And people realized that, my gosh, you know, here's a great getaway, which is a short distance from, you know, from California, easy to get to great climate, great food, et cetera. And, you know, they wanted to build a small luxury resort on the ocean, they talked to different operators and we hit it off. And a lot of the reason why we hit it off for that first project was because I loved real estate, you know, and a lot of the big brands didn't really think of real estate as their primary mission.
You know, a lot of times it was, well, we serve the guests and by the way, these owners over here in this real estate stuff, that's a side note. Well, to me that was the show. And so being able to partner with great developers to be able to deliver not only an exceptional hospitality experience, but be able to deliver that for the owners. So we had 60 villas at Esperanza soon after that. It was Chileno Bay. We did Calistoga Ranch, which has a residential component, and we were on a roll from 98 to 2008. We had great success in building the company because we had found a direction that really gave a lot of returns and magic, if you will, to the development.
Steve Carran: That's great. 
Mark Harmon: Yeah. 
David Millili: You've touched on it, but maybe dive a little bit deeper for those who aren't familiar with the brand talk a little bit more, a little bit deeper in there. 
Mark Harmon: Sure. As I mentioned, we formed the company in 1998 as a management company and took on largely management rules. I acted as a developer for several projects. For example, Solage, which is at the in Calistoga and the Napa Valley. And the idea really was to develop excellence in terms of what we. Did what we built, and it was a different model. It was really kind of, you know, as I said, a lot of hotel companies had hallways.
You know, the Auberge de Soleil was a complete outlier. It was a 50 room hotel. If you talk to most hoteliers there, you know, or developers, they'd say, well, how can you make money on a 50 room hotel? That doesn't make sense. Well, you have to provide an exceptional experience, right? So we had to hit all the right things, the cuisine, the service, the views, the physical product, the spa, you know, wellness offerings and so forth.
And when you get all those things right, what we found was that people would say, oh my gosh, you know, this is an amazing experience. It's really not an equation where you're saying, I'm gonna sleep here, therefore, how much am I paying? It was, boy, this experience is spectacular. You know, I don't care really what it costs in some ways because I got reconnected with my loved one.
We had an amazing experience. This is what living is all about. And really in a lot of ways it was kind of a very European, model because you'll find these small little inns in resorts all over Europe and France, and the name means in French, in of the sun. So it was that model that, you know, we took out there and as I said, paired up with real estate developers who love the idea that we could bring that magic of this very, very special experience across the board and the spa, the wellness, the cuisine to elevate the experience of not only the guests, but the owners who were buying there. 
Steve Carran: And you talk about the experience. You talk about, you know, the smaller hallways or lack of hallways. Is there something that, maybe a philosophy that you have with your designs of these hotels that do create a higher quality experience?
Mark Harmon: Yes, absolutely. So over the years, really developed a philosophy of how to create these resorts. And I would say that a number of things, first of all should have a very residential feel, which means, you know, you're putting the person first, you're putting the scale of the property into something that feels human and you can connect with it. Great design, I think, involves being true to the land, you know, really reflecting the character and the nature of the land that you're blessed to have the opportunity to develop. It means you want to use the materials that are, you know, part of that place that it looks like it belongs there. You know, that to me is super important and a place that's not imposing on the guest, but rather celebrates the guest in creating an intimate and warm, almost residential atmosphere.
I love the saying of a desire that we work with Todd Lenahan, he said, you know, a great hotel makes you feel like a better version of yourself. And that's saying, that's great really, really struck home with me, and that's you look for. You know, we obviously focus on things like sustainability making sure we're responsible in delivering a luxury experience. And there are a number of other tenants there. But those are the core principles that we developed over the years. 
David Millili: That's great. And so what's next for me? 
Mark Harmon: Well, actually in, and there are a number of different Auberge here. Not to really get too confusing, but, so first of all, there's the Auberge de Soleil, which is owned by my family and I take care of it. Then there's the Auberge collection, which is the management company. Which I sold to the current ownership group back in 2018 and went back to what I love doing, which is developing hotels from the ground up. And so that's Auberge’s Partners. I know I've got you completely confused here because they're like, wait, which one is this? In carrying this on, I'm currently working on a project in hill Country in Texas Hill Country. We're building a Waldorf Astoria. So, it's not an Auberge brand, but it's gonna be, like I described, a small intimate property, only 60 rooms in the hotel and then residences and villas around it, that will be a part of this a hundred acre campus that has spectacular views of Texas Hill country. And this is what I love doing. I love working with designers. I love creating things. To me, one of the most gratifying elements of that is to be able to create meaningful opportunities for the people that work there, and that's really, you know, that gets me outta bed in the morning. 
Steve Carran: I love that. I love that. So is that what you made, that's why you started Oish Partners, was to focus more on the design and almost working with different hotel partner. 
Mark Harmon: That's correct. Yeah, I've worked with Auberge in a heartbeat. I love it. It's my baby. And they are doing a fantastic job. The company has opened up properties in Europe and they've got some really, really beautiful properties. So I'm quite proud of the direction they're going, they're wonderful leadership and we stay in touch and, and I work with them to send them opportunities, you know, whether they're guests, my friends, or development opportunities.
Steve Carran: That's great. That's great. 
Mark Harmon: Yeah. 
Steve Carran: So now we're gonna get to the industry thought part of the podcast. So, one thing that we have really seen over the past year or two is luxury is the hottest market in hotels right now. Why do you think that is? And what are we gonna see here from the luxury segment over the next year or two?
Mark Harmon: I think the growth of the luxury segment can be attributed to the tremendous growth and wealth which is concentrated in a small portion of the population. There's tremendous wealth there, but that wealth is growing around the world and India and China and other Vietnam and so forth.
So, they’re wealthy people that are looking for those great experiences that are part and parcel of luxury. Sadly, there's some tales in this economy where the people who are not wealthy are really suffering. And, you know, that's why certainly, there's this division and in the world and you know that the haves and the have nots, and that's becoming more and more pronounced but the luxury segment has flourished because of the massive creation of wealth out there. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. And what do you think is next over the next year and a half? Any new trends or anything you see coming into the segment that you might be excited about? 
Mark Harmon: You know, I think that, and when I started going in this business, you know, we tried to simplify things. We tried to keep it, the properties honest and really, you know, not get into the amenity wars that all the other brands were. You know, they have to have this and you have to have that. You wanted a place that felt very comfortable, warm and friendly and so forth. And, you know, the industry has continued to get away from that.
And then, you know, we've gone into the experiential world and where experiential luxury is sort of the, you know, the flavor of the day and everybody's providing these programming opportunities and experiences that will enrich people's lives. I think that's gonna continue. What I would imagine might happen in the next few years is there's gonna be an integration of the wellness factor.
There already is, and these experiences, and I think that's gonna open up a lot of opportunities. And I'll mention one that it's gonna sound a little far out there, but I think that, for example, plant medicine and you know. It could be a significant way of combining wellness with a hospitality experience. Now, that's a very, it's not recreational. This is something that really, you know, promotes mental health, it promotes longevity. You know, there are ways to deal with trauma, which is what's inside many people, but doesn't have a chance to get out there. So if we have the opportunity to address. You know those issues in the context of a place where you go to retreat and you go to renew yourself and you go to refresh, that could be very interesting. We'll see what happens. 
Steve Carran: Yeah. I'm with you a hundred percent. 
David Millili: So whether it be business, sports, culture is always important. Why do you think culture's so important for hotels?
Mark Harmon: I gave a talk on this at one point and called that the soul of the hotel. You know, it's the people and you know, we can talk about design and places feeling residential and warm and comfortable and romantic, but at the end of the day, it's all about the people and the experience that they deliver to the guest.
And so to me, the most important element of creating a great experience. Hospitality is the people, the team that you have there on the site. So how they are trained, how are they treated, how are they honored in their experiences and how? We can celebrate what those people do and give them, you know, not only wonderful facilities, but also, you know, the type of training and really understanding and opportunities for growth that will bring out the best in these people.
You know, I think, the old saying, “culture eats strategy for breakfast.” 
You know, culture is behind everything. And I think it's so important. And what does that really mean? It means that you have to have a vision of a place that is respectful, that honors and really loves the people that work there. And delivering that takes leadership. It takes a lot of empathy and I think that sometimes we get hospitality confused with the category. You know, we're luxury, we're upper upscale, we're this, and the other thing. No, we're in the business of providing love and experience to these people in a careful way. And end all for hospitality is about culture. 
Steve Carran: Follow up, question to culture. One thing that I've learned in my life is a lot of the time the culture comes downhill and a culture comes from that top of the organization. What advice do you have to hoteliers and leaders specifically of groups to help create a great culture? And, you know, like you said, really lead with empathy and, and love and passion. 
Mark Harmon: Well, it's those things, that are most important, Steve. And it’s easier said than done. Of course, I think that for me the element is about constant communication. It's of your values. You know, what are your values? What are your core principles, and how are those communicated? And once you've done that, you've gotta walk the talk. So I think in every effective organization that I've been involved in or seen from the outside, they have set of core values that really honor the people that work there and give them the sense that what they're doing is meaningful and that they're respected and honored for that undertaking.
David Millili: So wellness has been a big trend in hospitality. What are your thoughts on it and do you think we're gonna continue to see that trend even. 
Mark Harmon: Oh gosh. David, I think we're just at the beginning of that. I think, the hospitality world, started out in the United States because you're another story, in the United States, we said, okay, you know, we're gonna have gyms, and then we're go, well, we're gonna have spas and we've got wellness. But I think that the holistic approach to wellness is really here at the very early stage and has such tremendous promise. And there are so many things that are possible now just think for example, what you can get from an Aura ring or an Apple watch. You know, there's so many metrics around your heartbeat, your health, you know, all of these. These elements that we're reading and understanding what the impact of eating this thing or changing your diet, doing vitamin drops and so on and so forth.
So how do we integrate more of those into the hospitality experience? I think it's gonna take some learning for sure, but people are I think after the element of wellbeing and in a much broader sense than, you know, going to the spa and getting relaxed, how do I make my life better? One other thing I'll mention is that it's interesting how much focus there is on longevity which is interesting. I mean, there are people trying all sorts of things. You know, if I don't eat, but once a day, will I live longer? I'd kind of suggest that it's not about living longer, it's about living well. 
Steve Carran: Exactly. Well, that's great. And I'm curious about your perspective on this as somebody who's been in the luxury space for 40 years, and I feel like of all the people in this industry, in the US you might have some of the best perspective here. What are luxury hotels in the United States specifically? What are they doing right and a lot of 'em doing well, and where's an area that they're getting wrong where there could be some improvement there?
Mark Harmon: Yeah, I think, you know, let's take just one thing, for example, which is food and beverage, which I think for many years hotels really looked at that as a necessary evil, they weren't making much money off of it. Well, we gotta serve the stuff and. You know, we've seen some of the large brands and Hilton has been fascinating in this regard. Go out to independent restaurateurs and experts and bring them in-house and say, look, we really don't want to be. the Hilton brand of hospitality. You wanna deliver something that's really special and unique, which, you know, goes against the book of trying to create uniformity and consistency in systems that are always, you know, measurable.
So I really appreciated that they're taking a risk on that and understanding that unless they do, they're probably not gonna capture all of the luxury market that they'd like to get. So I think that's one example where, you know, there's been improvement and there's more room for improvement there in food and beverage, and I'd call that the culinary experience. 
Steve Carran: Sure. 
Mark Harmon: Yeah. 
Steve Carran: Anything that they're doing. Right. Anything that you go to that you've seen more of that you really like? 
Mark Harmon: Oh boy. You know, their systems and their ability to pull apart metrics is super impressive, right? We've got the resources to be able to understand that. Now that being said, you gotta understand how to use those. And I think that you can get overly reliant on metrics and not apply enough of the feel that you have from experience. You know, I think, I'm very impressed with the number of programs and the metrics that the bigger brands have developed and are putting to use. 
David Millili: So for those who are listening who maybe are just starting out in hospitality or looking to get into hospitality, what advice would you give to the younger generation that is looking to start a career in hospitality?
Mark Harmon: Great question. And actually, uh, well, my kids have asked me that question as well. First of all, be very curious, I think that that's maybe some of the best advice that I've always, that I've received, which is to continually ask questions, you know, not take the path, well trodden, but ask the question, is that the right path for me? And really explore that, and in the process of doing that, I think you'll find the people and you know, the companies that live the values that you have and that's so important in getting going in any kind of business, is to align yourself with the people that have your values and you feel confident are gonna be consistent and align with your approach and where you want to be in life.
So you know that and take some risk. But I think another aspect of starting a career to David's question in hospitality would be to take a look at things and say, well, this is the way things have always been done. What's a way we can do things differently and would that make a difference?
Right. Would that be meaningful? I always, thought I had a strong advantage coming in from outside the hospitality industry, as a lawyer, as a real estate developer. I had a different point of view and there were no sacred cows or nothing that I thought, well, gotta do it that way 'cause that's the way it's always been done. In fact, quite the contrary, that, well, why are they doing it that way? You know, and just asking those questions and understanding because, you know, that leads to innovation, that leads to creative thinking. And I think in today's world, those are gonna be the aspects of your career that are gonna make a difference. There's so many things you're getting picked up by AI, that's a topic everybody's on these days. It's fairly straightforward to be a lawyer. Maybeunless you're in the creative side of that, or accounting and that sort of thing. So, but you can really add value by thinking differently and how things have been done. So ask questions, think differently. 
Steve Carran: That's great. That's great. Great advice. So, this whole time we've been asking you questions, Mark. This is where we turn the tables and let you ask David and I a question. 
Mark Harmon: Okay. I'll ask this question, what's the most exciting thing you've heard about technology and changes in the hospitality industry in recent podcasts?
Steve Carran: Oh, man, one thing that I love hearing more about is how. There are more hyper-local partnerships, and I don't know if this specifically is technology per se. But more how we are focused on, you know, incorporating these experiences. Whether it is, you know, if you're in Napa doing wine tasting, exploring the area, it's beautiful. So more of the partnerships that, I don't know, maybe we're able to communicate more clearly via technology. But really how hotels are really focusing on the experience side of things and, you know, really exploring the area outside of the hotel and also all the areas around the hotel, aside from just the location that they're going to.
Mark Harmon: Great. Well thanks that's very interesting. And then a follow up question is what are you guys seeing and hearing in the wellness industry or hospitality wellness that that gets you excited or that's been kind of interesting? 
Steve Carran: Yeah, and I'll take this one too. I think the wellness space is super interesting. I love all the plant-based things. Me personally, I'm just not a fan of, if I can do something natural over like a prescription or something like that, I'll take the natural one out 10 outta 10 times. But also I've heard about these almost resorts that you talked it's not about how long you're living, but having that quality of life along with that. 
So there's these almost resorts you can go into where they test everything in your body and get a whole almost report card of this is how you're doing as a human being. So I think we're gonna see more of those. I know there's some in Europe that are being out and I think there's one opening in the United States, but I think we're gonna just see a lot more of these trends that focus on wellness, whether it is, you know, those natural drugs exercise. But really focusing on just living a healthier lifestyle. So, I think, like you said, we're in the beginning of it. 
Mark Harmon: We are, and Steve, they're also, you know, quite innovative companies, that are doing this in Asia, you know, and they're combining, you know, centuries old traditions and techniques, whether it's acupuncture or, you know, herbal medicine and that sort of thing along with the diagnostic tools that you have in modern medicine.
Steve Carran: Sure. Absolutely. Well, David's having some technical difficulties, but what we're gonna do, why don't we just hand it over to Jon, our producer. He's been listening the whole time, so we're gonna have him ask you one more question before we get you outta here. 
Jon Bumhoffer: Great, thank you. You mentioned at the beginning one of your favorite parts about being in the hotel space and developing hotels is developing a great place to work. And for your staff and employees, I'm curious, you know, you keep hearing about labor shortages and rising labor costs, so I'm curious, how are you guys dealing with that? What have you been doing to combat that and um, deal with those issues? 
Mark Harmon: Boy, there's no easy answer there. I think, and you look at resort shotels, you know, the critical issue is that these places where you want to go are just way too expensive for staff to be able to live there. So the affordability crisis, as you know, as you can imagine in these resort destinations, uh, really just puts a terrific hurt on your ability to attract and retain key employees. So, one aspect of this is certainly getting these programs off the ground to provide meaningful workforce housing in those communities, sadly a lot of these communities want to just kind be contained and wanna kind of deal with that, but people are driving several hours to get there to work, there's gotta be some solutions there. And, you know, some places have addressed that when we built a property in the Napa Valley up in Calistoga. We partnered with Calistoga Affordable Housing and donated a part of the land with all the infrastructure there. And they built a wonderful community for about 30 families, and they didn't have to work at our property at Seage, but we were adding to the workforce with affordable housing. 
Jon Bumhoffer: Is your employee employment pool or your labor force a lot, is it a lot of seasonal stuff or do you have people that are mostly full-time and how long do people normally stay with you guys?
Mark Harmon: Yeah, we try to keep 'em for as long as we can. And a fair percentage, you know, 10 to 15% are seasonal, there's also another element, which is the visa holders. And they have been a terrific source of really experienced labor taking opportunities that wouldn't be filled otherwise. The Trump administration would like you to believe that they're taking Americans jobs, but you know that really they aren't, they're filling, you know, for example, in Aspen or probably have 20 of the J1 students that are there, that are trained in hospitality, they wanna be in the hospitality business, they're dorming up with others. You know, there might be five or six people in a room, but they love this experience. And there've been a terrific addition, I think on sadly, that those J1 visa holders are being restricted.
Steve Carran: Yeah. 
Mark Harmon: By this administration and we're losing a lot of valuable talent.
Steve Carran: Well, Mark, this has been great. I appreciate the time. This is where you get to tell us more about how people can get in touch with you or learn more about Auberge Partners. 
Mark Harmon: Sure. Well, thank you. Best way to get in touch with me is email mharmon@aubergepartners.com and we have our property in Texas. If anybody's interested in that. It's gonna be a wonderful property. We just started construction. You know, I'm open to questions that come through that email or uh, on LinkedIn or occasionally on Instagram, although I've sworn it off for the time being. 
Steve Carran: Well, that's great, Mark. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been another episode of The Modern Hotelier, whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you tuning in and don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe. We look forward to seeing you and hearing you on the next episode. Thanks so much, mark. 
Mark Harmon: Thank you. Appreciate it.