WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.420 Imran Ahmed: Discovery is always a problem for every mode of entertainment. 00:00:03.570 --> 00:00:04.650 How do you get in front of the eyes? 00:00:04.650 --> 00:00:05.550 It's marketing, right? 00:00:05.820 --> 00:00:09.540 But the one thing that they weren't discussing and how I was thinking 00:00:09.540 --> 00:00:13.319 about this trust and transparency, and the question I asked was, is 00:00:13.319 --> 00:00:14.670 there Rotten Tomatoes for podcasts? 00:00:16.830 --> 00:00:19.710 Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education 00:00:19.710 --> 00:00:21.779 podcasters to learn and get inspired. 00:00:22.075 --> 00:00:25.705 I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium Podcast Company. 00:00:26.455 --> 00:00:29.134 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee, founder of JPod Creations, 00:00:29.154 --> 00:00:30.775 podcasting is broadcasting. 00:00:31.075 --> 00:00:32.364 We want you to know you're not alone. 00:00:32.364 --> 00:00:35.515 In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there, and 00:00:35.515 --> 00:00:37.435 we can all learn from each other. 00:00:37.915 --> 00:00:39.175 Neil McPhedran: Yes, that's right. 00:00:39.175 --> 00:00:46.155 And we've been continuing to do cool things on HigherEdPods.com. 00:00:46.735 --> 00:00:49.860 We've got a lot of cool features that are gonna be coming 00:00:49.860 --> 00:00:51.599 out in the next month or so. 00:00:51.660 --> 00:00:54.629 We'll let everyone know when that happens, but we're continuing to move 00:00:54.629 --> 00:00:59.069 forward and do some really interesting stuff with that directory and community. 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:03.390 Jennifer-Lee: And of course, the first ever PodCon conference 00:01:03.390 --> 00:01:05.280 is coming up really quick. 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.310 Neil McPhedran: Yep, we're a few weeks away, so looking forward to it and 00:01:08.310 --> 00:01:11.820 hopefully see some of you listening there. 00:01:12.070 --> 00:01:14.650 Jennifer-Lee: And I'm really excited for Chicago Mix popcorn. 00:01:14.950 --> 00:01:19.060 Nothing's better than going to higher education podcast 00:01:19.060 --> 00:01:23.830 conference and then having some Chicago Mix popcorn as a snack. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:24.670 I like it. 00:01:24.970 --> 00:01:30.280 Neil McPhedran: Well, today on this episode, Jen, we are chatting 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.950 with Imran Ahmed, also known as. 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:41.070 Captain Ron and he runs Great Pods, which is essentially the 00:01:41.070 --> 00:01:44.820 Rotten Tomatoes of podcasts. 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:46.620 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and I think it's great. 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:48.930 We need more rating systems out there for podcasts 'cause there's 00:01:48.930 --> 00:01:50.740 really not that many out there. 00:01:51.210 --> 00:01:53.179 And I like the fact that we're gonna talk to him. 00:01:53.450 --> 00:01:57.800 Yes, you and I can leave reviews on these podcasts, but what I love about it is that 00:01:57.800 --> 00:02:01.520 he actually has legit reviewers too on it. 00:02:01.910 --> 00:02:06.770 Like he has people from like the New York Times and publications in the 00:02:06.770 --> 00:02:11.450 UK that are avid critics, because I think that's something that, you know, 00:02:11.690 --> 00:02:16.885 we used to have Siskel and Ebert for movies and things like that, but we've 00:02:16.885 --> 00:02:20.275 kind of gone away with that, with the way that media has been, you know, 00:02:20.305 --> 00:02:23.965 changing, in the traditional media of the newspapers and things going, or 00:02:23.965 --> 00:02:25.645 things moving to digital publications. 00:02:25.885 --> 00:02:30.025 I felt like the, the critic was going and everyone was kind of 00:02:30.025 --> 00:02:34.065 being their own critic, but I like the fact that there's still, people 00:02:34.065 --> 00:02:36.960 that do the hard job and are legit. 00:02:37.019 --> 00:02:39.930 So I'm excited that it's all rolled into this platform. 00:02:40.200 --> 00:02:41.070 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, that's right. 00:02:41.070 --> 00:02:42.930 I think it's a really interesting site. 00:02:42.990 --> 00:02:45.480 This is a little bit of a different of an episode in that we're not 00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:49.799 talking to a higher ed podcaster per se, but I think we do talk 00:02:49.799 --> 00:02:54.030 about a lot of things that are super applicable to all of us as podcasters. 00:02:54.030 --> 00:02:58.950 And we get into things like categories and how to categorize your 00:02:58.950 --> 00:03:00.870 podcast and why that's important. 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:03.690 And so, yeah, there's a few really interesting things here that I think 00:03:03.690 --> 00:03:09.870 are super applicable to all podcasters, but especially higher ed podcasters. 00:03:10.230 --> 00:03:12.060 Jennifer-Lee: And how to make your podcast more searchable. 00:03:12.060 --> 00:03:14.580 That's something all higher ed podcasters can use. 00:03:14.610 --> 00:03:17.850 So definitely a very valuable episode. 00:03:17.970 --> 00:03:23.715 And I know that sometimes we don't love critiques, but a good critique 00:03:23.715 --> 00:03:28.935 could also help your higher education podcaster get to the next level. 00:03:29.145 --> 00:03:33.135 You know, people critique papers in the university. 00:03:33.315 --> 00:03:35.265 Our work gets critiqued all the time. 00:03:35.325 --> 00:03:36.495 No difference. 00:03:36.495 --> 00:03:37.635 It's how we learn. 00:03:37.875 --> 00:03:39.405 So let's get started. 00:03:39.705 --> 00:03:40.275 Neil McPhedran: Let's get into it. 00:03:41.055 --> 00:03:43.245 Jennifer-Lee: Welcome back to Continuing Studies. 00:03:43.425 --> 00:03:45.285 Today we have a really interesting guest. 00:03:45.285 --> 00:03:50.205 So Neil, I'm not sure if you're a big Rotten Tomatoes fan, but I am. 00:03:50.205 --> 00:03:54.010 I do watch it to look at different suggestions for movies. 00:03:54.070 --> 00:03:59.170 So today we have Imran on and he is the founder of Great Pods, which has been 00:03:59.170 --> 00:04:03.460 touted the Rotten Tomatoes for podcasts. 00:04:03.790 --> 00:04:04.390 How are you? 00:04:04.870 --> 00:04:05.320 Imran Ahmed: I'm great. 00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:07.000 Thanks guys for having me on. 00:04:07.390 --> 00:04:10.720 This is so exciting after seeing you, Jennifer in London. 00:04:10.810 --> 00:04:11.680 This is so exciting. 00:04:12.315 --> 00:04:14.175 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I know Neil was like, how'd you guys meet? 00:04:14.175 --> 00:04:16.215 I was like, we were drinking in a pub. 00:04:16.545 --> 00:04:19.485 Neil McPhedran: I had such FOMO that you all were there. 00:04:19.905 --> 00:04:23.055 We chatted before we hopped on here, we're actually on a WhatsApp channel 00:04:23.055 --> 00:04:27.105 together as well too, and everyone was talking about it and sending pictures of 00:04:27.105 --> 00:04:29.325 meeting each other, and I had such FOMO. 00:04:29.490 --> 00:04:32.820 Jennifer-Lee: Well, like I mentioned before, Great Pods is supposed to 00:04:32.820 --> 00:04:35.310 be the Rotten Tomatoes of Podcasts. 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:36.780 How do you come up with something like that? 00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:37.920 Imran Ahmed: Oh, wow. 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:41.790 I mean, the best part about podcasts is refining that story, and the hardest part 00:04:41.790 --> 00:04:45.720 about podcasts is refining that story because there's the long version and 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.350 the short version, but I haven't found the medium version, so I'll try my best. 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.340 I personally started off in the podcast space, radio space at 00:04:53.340 --> 00:04:56.660 college radio, had my own Bollywood program here in Southern California. 00:04:56.850 --> 00:04:58.660 There I used the TuneIn radio app. 00:04:58.900 --> 00:05:02.680 This is 2010, so I was podcasting my stuff, but also listening to live radio. 00:05:02.740 --> 00:05:04.810 TuneIn had podcasts as well and radio. 00:05:05.370 --> 00:05:07.020 I was looking for a new job. 00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:10.170 Applied there to the, from Southern California to the Bay Area. 00:05:10.170 --> 00:05:14.910 Moved up there, worked in customer support all the way to operations and sports 00:05:14.910 --> 00:05:19.110 marketing, but I was still in the audio entertainment space, which is podcasts 00:05:19.110 --> 00:05:21.410 and live radio, which was awesome. 00:05:21.450 --> 00:05:24.390 I loved it, you got to listen to whatever you wanted to throughout the 00:05:24.390 --> 00:05:25.950 day and not get in trouble for it. 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:29.140 And throughout that time, I was in customer support, and 00:05:29.140 --> 00:05:30.500 the marketing and operations. 00:05:30.500 --> 00:05:34.270 You get emails not only from customers, but also reply back to 00:05:34.270 --> 00:05:35.770 your email marketing campaigns. 00:05:35.859 --> 00:05:39.460 And whenever we would feature something, you know, you'd go to any app and there's 00:05:39.460 --> 00:05:41.800 always a feature, a carousel of some kind. 00:05:41.979 --> 00:05:45.549 Those are editors, those are people, humans featuring that content. 00:05:45.610 --> 00:05:49.090 A lot of it was around the transparency of it all. 00:05:49.695 --> 00:05:53.985 Who are your people that are featuring pushing this content to us? 00:05:54.055 --> 00:05:55.034 We don't know who they are. 00:05:55.034 --> 00:05:56.775 It's too anonymous. 00:05:56.835 --> 00:05:59.775 I'd get a couple of those emails, I'd read those emails, frontline. 00:06:00.075 --> 00:06:00.645 I see 'em. 00:06:00.645 --> 00:06:01.604 I'm like, I get it. 00:06:01.844 --> 00:06:02.325 I get it. 00:06:02.505 --> 00:06:05.715 But there was also a level from a private company being, you wanted the 00:06:05.715 --> 00:06:08.294 privacy of your employees as well. 00:06:08.385 --> 00:06:09.494 So protecting that privacy. 00:06:09.525 --> 00:06:13.620 'Cause we didn't technically sign up to be an editor and put our name, or a feature, 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:15.180 could like put our name up out there. 00:06:15.210 --> 00:06:16.890 We wanna do the behind the scenes work. 00:06:17.130 --> 00:06:18.630 So that always stuck with me. 00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:20.370 That was the start of it all. 00:06:20.640 --> 00:06:25.350 And then fast forward now to Himalaya podcast app. 00:06:25.350 --> 00:06:29.730 I worked there for a couple of months, pandemic started, and then moved back home 00:06:29.820 --> 00:06:32.160 back down to LA and started Great Pods. 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.100 And what stuck around with me during that timeframe, after TuneIn 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:41.250 and during Himalaya was where is the trust and transparency behind 00:06:41.250 --> 00:06:43.950 podcasts and podcast recommendations? 00:06:44.010 --> 00:06:48.090 The industry, if you remember Clubhouse was a big app during the 00:06:48.090 --> 00:06:49.590 early pandemic and it was booming. 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.000 I remember distinctly, there was one conversation happening up on Clubhouse 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.510 and I was listening in and I think there was some Bar Stool people 00:06:57.510 --> 00:06:59.700 and some other Paramount people. 00:06:59.700 --> 00:07:03.180 It was just a random group of higher execs, uh, whatever. 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.340 And the one thing that stuck out with me is like they all 00:07:05.340 --> 00:07:07.050 talked about a discovery problem. 00:07:07.410 --> 00:07:10.875 Discovery is always a problem for every mode of entertainment. 00:07:11.294 --> 00:07:12.375 How do you get in front of the eyes? 00:07:12.375 --> 00:07:13.304 It's marketing, right? 00:07:13.515 --> 00:07:17.234 But the one thing that they weren't discussing and how I was thinking 00:07:17.234 --> 00:07:21.284 about this trust and transparency, and the question I asked was, is 00:07:21.284 --> 00:07:22.635 there Rotten Tomatoes for podcasts? 00:07:22.635 --> 00:07:25.065 Are there podcast critics in this space? 00:07:25.065 --> 00:07:28.304 So I just started asking that question after the eight years I spent at 00:07:28.304 --> 00:07:31.784 TuneIn, and I finally asked the question, are there critics out there? 00:07:31.784 --> 00:07:34.995 And then I went down on the Google search of finding out if 00:07:34.995 --> 00:07:39.785 there were any, because I watched Roger Eberts, Gene Siskel, right? 00:07:39.785 --> 00:07:42.435 The Siskel and Eberts of the world, movie critics. 00:07:42.675 --> 00:07:46.185 Whether or not you liked their reviews or not, you still liked them because 00:07:46.185 --> 00:07:48.780 of their trust and their transparency. 00:07:49.260 --> 00:07:51.599 They're critics, they know what they're talking about. 00:07:51.659 --> 00:07:55.290 And so that really stuck out with me when building the Rotten Tomatoes for 00:07:55.290 --> 00:07:59.820 podcasts, for Great Pods, is building that level of trust and transparency. 00:07:59.820 --> 00:08:01.800 And you know who these reviewers are. 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.520 So that existed, it was about me pulling that all together into 00:08:05.520 --> 00:08:09.180 one side and aggregating that information for, for you guys to 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:12.600 decide on what to listen to, right? 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:15.990 You come into Great Pods, you look up the reviews for it. 00:08:16.305 --> 00:08:17.835 Do you want to listen to it or not? 00:08:18.284 --> 00:08:22.935 Neil McPhedran: So it's a website directory of reviews and then, but also 00:08:22.935 --> 00:08:25.125 key, you've got other tentacles, right? 00:08:25.185 --> 00:08:29.715 You've got an email, which must be a, a very important part of the strategy. 00:08:29.775 --> 00:08:31.365 I can subscribe to the email. 00:08:31.365 --> 00:08:36.075 So I've got inbound, I've got reviews coming in once a week 00:08:36.075 --> 00:08:37.304 through that email, correct? 00:08:37.365 --> 00:08:40.064 Imran Ahmed: Yeah, so I have just like a normal business. 00:08:40.064 --> 00:08:44.745 I got the site up, the newsletter, email package is going. 00:08:44.745 --> 00:08:48.944 We got analytics as well with Google Analytics, Clarity. 00:08:48.944 --> 00:08:52.605 Those are the free ones as well as Amplitude, which gives a 00:08:52.605 --> 00:08:55.455 freemium version, but it's a little deeper in their analytics. 00:08:55.455 --> 00:08:59.265 So we got the analytics also running in the backend, and I've learned 00:08:59.265 --> 00:09:00.915 a lot on the engineering side. 00:09:00.915 --> 00:09:02.025 I'm a non-engineer. 00:09:02.415 --> 00:09:04.875 It is a lot of learning. 00:09:04.935 --> 00:09:09.285 It is a lot of work, and we say that AI could do a lot of this. 00:09:09.285 --> 00:09:10.365 We still need humans. 00:09:10.515 --> 00:09:13.845 I know there's engineers, there's less roles, but it's still needed. 00:09:14.085 --> 00:09:15.465 It's not like it's not needed. 00:09:15.855 --> 00:09:15.915 Neil McPhedran: Yeah. 00:09:15.915 --> 00:09:18.195 What I'd love to dig into is the website. 00:09:18.285 --> 00:09:21.855 I did a deep dive, like the categories are quite deep, so you're not just 00:09:21.855 --> 00:09:25.395 taking the Apple regular categories. 00:09:25.395 --> 00:09:30.345 Your categories you've created are way wider and they're more, at least in 00:09:30.345 --> 00:09:34.155 my mind, they were more focused on the kind of things I might be looking for. 00:09:34.155 --> 00:09:37.305 So it's not just a business podcast, there's a bunch of sublayers and 00:09:37.305 --> 00:09:40.935 they're more attuned to what kind of thing I might wanna listen to. 00:09:40.935 --> 00:09:44.295 So there's like a marketing, you know, one for example or whatever. 00:09:44.325 --> 00:09:47.925 I think you, you can find a spot in there, at least what I thought. 00:09:48.195 --> 00:09:51.825 The categories are so wide that I can find a lot of things that would be of interest 00:09:51.825 --> 00:09:53.625 to me and you know, so on and so forth. 00:09:53.835 --> 00:09:54.195 Imran Ahmed: Yeah. 00:09:54.315 --> 00:09:59.115 As I started learning about building a startup in the last four years is 00:09:59.115 --> 00:10:01.845 that, you know, building this out, you kind of make your own rules. 00:10:02.115 --> 00:10:05.805 There's no guideline that you can't, you start developing the guidelines 00:10:05.805 --> 00:10:08.415 as you go along in this process. 00:10:08.415 --> 00:10:11.115 So I develop guidelines on who I consider a critic. 00:10:11.475 --> 00:10:12.555 I was like, am I allowed to do that? 00:10:12.555 --> 00:10:15.255 It's like, yeah, you're the person creating this product. 00:10:15.555 --> 00:10:16.875 You're the professional, right? 00:10:16.875 --> 00:10:18.645 Like, I'm in this space, so I'm a professional. 00:10:18.645 --> 00:10:24.465 So those types of things that I was tinkering with, that includes the genres. 00:10:24.705 --> 00:10:27.615 The, the all podcast form when you go to the site. 00:10:27.615 --> 00:10:28.335 Like, okay. 00:10:28.935 --> 00:10:32.595 Because my initial research was showing that people were just tagging 00:10:32.595 --> 00:10:34.755 a lot of different genres in Apple. 00:10:35.505 --> 00:10:38.385 And honestly, I worked in the TuneIn backend, right? 00:10:38.385 --> 00:10:39.195 In operations. 00:10:39.285 --> 00:10:45.495 I saw how things were, genres were tagged, and how we tagged genres too. 00:10:45.540 --> 00:10:49.829 And it, it, sometimes it was an algorithmic, so I knew people 00:10:49.829 --> 00:10:51.360 were trying to cheat the system. 00:10:52.560 --> 00:10:57.150 Uh, when I'd go to Apple or Podcast Index and check the genre, I'm 00:10:57.150 --> 00:10:58.860 like, you're straight up comedy. 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.180 Why do you have like business attached to your genre? 00:11:03.180 --> 00:11:06.990 So all of the podcasts currently aggregated in Great 00:11:06.990 --> 00:11:09.974 Pods, I added the genres. 00:11:10.035 --> 00:11:15.295 But based off of the description and based off of the, the podcast index genre tags. 00:11:15.314 --> 00:11:18.405 So I will use some of that, but I question myself still. 00:11:18.765 --> 00:11:22.905 And as like with any startup and journey, it's not locked installed. 00:11:22.935 --> 00:11:24.194 I did this manually. 00:11:24.285 --> 00:11:28.214 I, I was taught do things that don't scale as a very common thing. 00:11:28.515 --> 00:11:30.944 And when you're doing a startup, you have to do things manually 00:11:30.944 --> 00:11:32.535 before you can automate them. 00:11:32.535 --> 00:11:36.990 So you know personally how to deal with it, you know, the frustration 00:11:36.990 --> 00:11:38.250 that the user goes through, right? 00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:40.860 So that's kind of what I've been going through manually adding the 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:45.990 genres, even separately, you'll notice there's BIPOC in there as well. 00:11:46.050 --> 00:11:51.510 I don't see a BIPOC category elsewhere, and these are made specifically for BIPOC. 00:11:51.540 --> 00:11:54.600 So yes, there should be that sub-genre or genre in general. 00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:56.400 How I do that in the future, I don't know. 00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:58.800 I'm planning on the refresh of the website. 00:11:59.265 --> 00:11:59.535 Neil McPhedran: Oh wow. 00:11:59.535 --> 00:12:03.975 Imran Ahmed: So all the manual work that I have gone through and for the last 00:12:03.975 --> 00:12:06.075 four years, how do I now automate that? 00:12:06.105 --> 00:12:08.505 Neil McPhedran: You know, back to your point about Google data and 00:12:08.745 --> 00:12:13.365 Google analytics, you must see stuff come in there too, of just queries 00:12:13.365 --> 00:12:16.935 that are landing on your site to go like, oh, well there's a, you know, 00:12:16.965 --> 00:12:18.825 maybe back to your BIPOC example. 00:12:18.825 --> 00:12:22.245 Like there's people looking for that, and I've got podcasts that fit into 00:12:22.245 --> 00:12:24.195 the genre, so I'll create that genre. 00:12:24.195 --> 00:12:27.285 So I would imagine that that's something that evolves and 00:12:27.285 --> 00:12:28.875 you see from the data as well. 00:12:28.905 --> 00:12:29.565 Imran Ahmed: Yeah, definitely. 00:12:29.565 --> 00:12:32.775 If that's something helpful for your listeners, SEO bloggings, 00:12:32.835 --> 00:12:36.585 I'm not inventing anything new for the podcast genre. 00:12:36.585 --> 00:12:39.615 It's kind of just reinventing it or adapting it from a different industry. 00:12:39.615 --> 00:12:41.475 So SEO blogging is still good. 00:12:41.595 --> 00:12:46.725 When I started SEO blogging, looking up the Google search terms, so Google Search 00:12:46.725 --> 00:12:50.625 Console for your listeners, go to Google Search Console, set up for yourselves 00:12:50.865 --> 00:12:52.365 so you can look up the search terms. 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:55.650 And I've used those search terms in my SEO blogging. 00:12:55.650 --> 00:12:56.670 I'm like, what should I talk about? 00:12:56.670 --> 00:12:57.600 What should I write about? 00:12:57.660 --> 00:13:01.590 Not only gave me an idea for the blog, but also gave me all the key terms for it. 00:13:01.590 --> 00:13:06.660 And since then there's at least three of my blog posts that have remained 00:13:06.660 --> 00:13:11.475 in the top five, top ten pages for that year because it's so consistent, 00:13:11.475 --> 00:13:16.020 podcasts are so evergreen, that they could come in listening six months 00:13:16.020 --> 00:13:20.010 later from that episode release and then search on the blog post or whatever that 00:13:20.010 --> 00:13:21.780 topic is that they're searching for. 00:13:22.020 --> 00:13:25.650 They'll land up in your blog post and funnel through the website because 00:13:25.650 --> 00:13:30.120 I'll put the actual review page on the blog post, so I'm internally 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.890 linking to my pages as well. 00:13:32.685 --> 00:13:34.905 Jennifer-Lee: And I think sometimes people have a hard time figuring out 00:13:34.905 --> 00:13:39.795 what category they're in, specifically with higher education podcasters. 00:13:39.855 --> 00:13:43.314 A lot of people think, oh, our podcast is educational because we're in an 00:13:43.425 --> 00:13:47.865 institute, but maybe your forensic science podcast actually is a true crime 00:13:47.865 --> 00:13:49.725 podcast and that's where you should go. 00:13:49.785 --> 00:13:53.355 And I think that's the hard part of higher education is 'cause we all think 00:13:53.355 --> 00:13:56.975 it's education and everyone wants to just go to that category but doesn't 00:13:56.975 --> 00:14:01.125 realize like, oh, wait, actually I have a podcast on mathematics. 00:14:01.125 --> 00:14:02.235 Where does this fit? 00:14:02.505 --> 00:14:07.905 Imran Ahmed: I'll tell you that I think for me in higher education podcasts, one 00:14:07.905 --> 00:14:13.005 of them that stood out to me, okay, is the documentary style higher education? 00:14:13.064 --> 00:14:14.415 What's the true crime behind it? 00:14:14.444 --> 00:14:14.805 Right? 00:14:14.805 --> 00:14:19.125 Or maybe something like, gimme that story, that drama behind something 00:14:19.125 --> 00:14:22.064 that happened like, you know, twenty years ago or still happening. 00:14:22.365 --> 00:14:25.365 I think the one that from APM stood out to me, Sold a Story. 00:14:25.830 --> 00:14:29.939 Which is about just educating kids from K through high school, like how this 00:14:29.939 --> 00:14:31.650 education system in the US and so on. 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:33.150 So it was really well done. 00:14:33.420 --> 00:14:34.230 It has a drama. 00:14:34.439 --> 00:14:38.490 And so that one I would put educational on there, education 00:14:38.790 --> 00:14:40.650 or learning, but also true crime. 00:14:40.770 --> 00:14:42.689 But I manually do that, right? 00:14:43.020 --> 00:14:44.939 So I don't disagree with you, Jennifer. 00:14:44.939 --> 00:14:47.130 I think that's going to be the next upgrade. 00:14:47.310 --> 00:14:52.170 And how do I make it so that, okay, Podcast Index it automatically, 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.660 it doesn't matter what genre is labeled, whatever you selected. 00:14:55.010 --> 00:14:58.590 Okay, fine, that's imported, but maybe it's a crowdsourcing tool 00:14:58.770 --> 00:15:02.700 where you guys can also go in saying additional tags or additional genres. 00:15:02.880 --> 00:15:07.350 So it's native to my site, native to Great Pods, where it's like you can put in BIPOC 00:15:07.380 --> 00:15:11.760 or true crime or something else based off of, you know, maybe Podcast Index 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:13.890 doesn't allow you to do multiple genres. 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.250 You can do it from a native standpoint. 00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.920 So I guess that would be my upgrade in a couple of months 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:20.750 for me to discover and try to do. 00:15:20.810 --> 00:15:22.010 But I don't disagree with you. 00:15:22.010 --> 00:15:22.970 I think that is a problem. 00:15:23.060 --> 00:15:25.820 Neil McPhedran: I actually just wanna make sure that we focus in, 00:15:25.820 --> 00:15:27.530 this is a really important thing. 00:15:27.590 --> 00:15:33.390 The self categorizing your show is, you know, to your point, 00:15:33.390 --> 00:15:35.760 Jen, is like often done wrong. 00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:38.580 And I think there's this, well, we're gonna set up our podcast and 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:40.140 we'll get it all up into hosting. 00:15:40.140 --> 00:15:42.090 And here, here's our category. 00:15:42.090 --> 00:15:43.500 And then you're off to the races. 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:47.100 And, and your example is like a lot of higher education podcasts put themselves 00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:49.920 into the education category or learning. 00:15:49.950 --> 00:15:52.470 And that's not necessarily right, but there is something important 00:15:52.470 --> 00:15:55.530 about getting those categories right. 00:15:56.055 --> 00:16:00.615 And taking advantage of the secondary and well, in the case of Spotify, 00:16:00.645 --> 00:16:04.665 when you're logging in for the first time into your Spotify for Creators, 00:16:04.965 --> 00:16:07.725 there's a third and you could even put a fourth category in there. 00:16:07.725 --> 00:16:12.645 So those are all signals for the platforms to know where to categorize 00:16:12.645 --> 00:16:14.385 you, which helps with your discovery. 00:16:14.805 --> 00:16:19.185 And then for something like Great Pods, it's really important because that's 00:16:19.425 --> 00:16:22.375 for people who are looking for podcasts. 00:16:22.395 --> 00:16:26.564 So you want to be showing up in the right genre and you wanna be 00:16:26.564 --> 00:16:28.064 showing up in the right categories. 00:16:28.064 --> 00:16:29.444 Imran Ahmed: And I don't add all of them too. 00:16:29.474 --> 00:16:31.035 I'll see it, I'll see a bunch of them. 00:16:31.035 --> 00:16:32.834 I'll be like, are you kidding me? 00:16:32.834 --> 00:16:33.795 I'm not adding that. 00:16:33.795 --> 00:16:35.655 Like I, I tag some other genres. 00:16:35.655 --> 00:16:37.635 Like I read the description, I know what you're trying to do, you're 00:16:37.635 --> 00:16:38.834 trying to beat the algorithm. 00:16:38.895 --> 00:16:44.175 But we don't even know consistently what Spotify's algorithm or Apple's algorithm, 00:16:44.175 --> 00:16:46.245 like if they're even taking up the genre. 00:16:46.305 --> 00:16:49.455 It could be in the case like Apple, where you go to genres 00:16:49.455 --> 00:16:50.505 and that's all it's used for. 00:16:50.505 --> 00:16:52.125 It's not used in any algorithm. 00:16:52.125 --> 00:16:53.475 It could just be, go to comedy. 00:16:53.595 --> 00:16:56.865 Here's a bunch of the comedy podcasts that are ranked and so on. 00:16:57.075 --> 00:16:58.395 We don't know how they're used. 00:16:58.695 --> 00:17:02.595 That's why like building, also, you're like our, doing this manual work 00:17:02.595 --> 00:17:04.575 'cause you know what you're building. 00:17:04.875 --> 00:17:06.645 And I love the transparency behind it. 00:17:06.645 --> 00:17:10.754 So if you have any questions behind the hood of my car right here, 00:17:10.964 --> 00:17:12.795 I'm more than happy to share it. 00:17:13.214 --> 00:17:13.875 Neil McPhedran: That's great. 00:17:13.875 --> 00:17:19.905 I think what I'd love to dig into is, as a critic, you see so many podcasts. 00:17:19.964 --> 00:17:27.405 What are some things that you see that are like, what constitutes a good review 00:17:27.675 --> 00:17:30.075 and what constitutes a bad review. 00:17:30.105 --> 00:17:34.004 What are some things that we can learn as podcasters from you looking 00:17:34.004 --> 00:17:35.835 at so many podcasts over the years. 00:17:35.895 --> 00:17:39.024 Imran Ahmed: And I, now we're getting into my guidelines that I've developed. 00:17:39.624 --> 00:17:45.135 The number one thing for me in a great review, it can be a critical review, but 00:17:45.135 --> 00:17:46.815 still a great review, like well-written. 00:17:46.815 --> 00:17:50.534 So the definitely well-written, articulated. 00:17:51.705 --> 00:17:58.275 You have to articulate why or why you shouldn't, me, like why the 00:17:58.275 --> 00:18:02.745 user, listener should or shouldn't listen to this particular podcast. 00:18:03.195 --> 00:18:06.255 So it's simple, it could be the two, three liner. 00:18:06.345 --> 00:18:06.825 That's it. 00:18:07.425 --> 00:18:10.215 That's all, that's basically what I'm looking for, that's snippet. 00:18:10.425 --> 00:18:12.105 I know what this description is about. 00:18:12.375 --> 00:18:13.605 You have the critical ear. 00:18:13.935 --> 00:18:15.105 Tell me why or why I shouldn't. 00:18:15.585 --> 00:18:21.135 So that's the basic outline that I require to index the professional reviews. 00:18:21.375 --> 00:18:25.725 It's basically the anti Apple user reviews where it's just like you can 00:18:25.725 --> 00:18:28.095 user bomb people, one star review. 00:18:28.395 --> 00:18:31.095 And just say, I hate that person, and that's it. 00:18:31.095 --> 00:18:31.995 And it gets published. 00:18:32.774 --> 00:18:36.044 And so there's nothing that tells me anything about this podcast. 00:18:36.044 --> 00:18:41.820 It just shows me that this anonymous user has hate for this podcast on Apple user. 00:18:42.210 --> 00:18:43.679 Neil McPhedran: Or the person that's being interviewed. 00:18:43.770 --> 00:18:46.169 We've seen that with one of the shows that we work with. 00:18:46.169 --> 00:18:50.639 They interviewed someone who is politically maligned right now and 00:18:50.639 --> 00:18:54.899 got a couple of one star ratings on the show from Apple only because 00:18:54.899 --> 00:18:56.760 that person didn't like that guest. 00:18:56.820 --> 00:18:59.250 And it's like, well, it's not indicative of the show. 00:18:59.320 --> 00:19:01.590 That's kind of a crappy review. 00:19:01.950 --> 00:19:04.860 Jennifer-Lee: My issue I have, not just with podcasts, and this is the 00:19:04.860 --> 00:19:08.745 thing like because my family used to own a construction company, is with 00:19:08.804 --> 00:19:15.225 the Google reviews, these local guides can come on and put one star reviews 00:19:15.284 --> 00:19:16.455 and they don't mention anything. 00:19:16.544 --> 00:19:19.754 It's like one star and the person lives halfway around the world. 00:19:19.754 --> 00:19:21.524 Google's like, sorry, I can't remove it. 00:19:22.155 --> 00:19:24.975 It's legit and I'm like, I don't think it's legit. 00:19:24.975 --> 00:19:26.685 So how do you go through the process? 00:19:26.685 --> 00:19:28.125 Do you vet your reviews? 00:19:28.125 --> 00:19:32.325 Imran Ahmed: That's, add that to one of the lists of why Great Pods is created, 00:19:32.455 --> 00:19:34.695 is to protect against user bombing. 00:19:34.785 --> 00:19:39.225 That's essentially, in my pitch deck, I have a screenshot of like two, one 00:19:39.225 --> 00:19:41.235 star reviews from Apple user reviews. 00:19:41.265 --> 00:19:44.794 And it literally is everything I described of a anonymous username, one 00:19:44.794 --> 00:19:47.135 star, I don't like him and like, okay. 00:19:47.435 --> 00:19:51.004 And then you have the next screenshot, which is Miranda Sawyer. 00:19:51.004 --> 00:19:55.925 You know who it is, from The Guardian, alright, publication, writing why you 00:19:55.925 --> 00:20:00.485 should actually listen to, the storyteller is amazing and so on, from The Guardian. 00:20:00.485 --> 00:20:01.804 And it's published with a link. 00:20:02.014 --> 00:20:03.064 Like who are you gonna trust? 00:20:03.274 --> 00:20:07.205 That user with the one star review, or Miranda Sawyer from The Guardian. 00:20:07.205 --> 00:20:10.475 So that's kind of where I, you protect against at the moment. 00:20:10.625 --> 00:20:14.340 Now, does that mean I won't have user reviews in the future? 00:20:15.090 --> 00:20:16.409 I'm not saying no to that. 00:20:16.875 --> 00:20:20.595 It's just how do I figure out the moderation of it all? 00:20:20.835 --> 00:20:24.285 Does it become like a Reddit type of thing where there's community moderators? 00:20:24.285 --> 00:20:28.455 Do I have an AI tool, an algorithmic tool like Twitch does? 00:20:28.725 --> 00:20:31.725 Learning from other industries and how they moderate the content 00:20:31.725 --> 00:20:34.755 in an efficient manner, that's something that I would adapt to. 00:20:34.755 --> 00:20:36.196 Again, I don't think we need to reinvent it. 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:40.590 Moderation and chat forums have been around for such a long time. 00:20:40.649 --> 00:20:42.149 How does Amazon reviews do it? 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:43.139 Or do they even do it? 00:20:43.139 --> 00:20:46.530 I've heard, I've been reading up reports that, thankfully, timely topic, I've 00:20:46.530 --> 00:20:49.409 been researching like, okay, well Amazon reviews, I'm sure there's user 00:20:49.409 --> 00:20:52.560 bombing and all that stuff, negative reviews happening all the time. 00:20:52.800 --> 00:20:55.830 How do they protect against it or do they even protect against it? 00:20:55.830 --> 00:20:57.629 And I've heard that they don't really care. 00:20:57.670 --> 00:21:01.060 So in addition to the user review of the guidelines of the reviews, 00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:04.960 one additional fact is that one of my favorite reviewers, a lot of the 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.250 big publications that review, that I collect the reviews from, are in the UK. 00:21:09.810 --> 00:21:13.440 So hence why I should have been in London anyway for the podcast show. 00:21:13.470 --> 00:21:18.030 But some from The Times UK, from The Guardian, the Observer, et cetera. 00:21:18.990 --> 00:21:22.650 One of my favorite ones is James Marriott from The Times UK. 00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:27.120 He comes out with a once in a week column, but when he writes a one star, 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:28.530 he doesn't give five star reviews. 00:21:28.889 --> 00:21:34.350 Give you a little secret on Great Pods is that the rating system is subjective based 00:21:34.350 --> 00:21:37.110 off of me if they don't rate the review. 00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:39.960 Because a lot of writers, they'll just write the review and that's it. 00:21:40.020 --> 00:21:42.600 I base it off of my sentiment analysis. 00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:45.360 I read the review and base it off of what they say is at a 00:21:45.360 --> 00:21:47.100 five star, four star, three star. 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.740 If they have not labeled a rating there. 00:21:50.399 --> 00:21:54.030 James Marriott already has a five star system, so I don't change anything of his. 00:21:54.584 --> 00:21:58.574 Like if you already have it, I will adapt it to the Great Pods rating system. 00:21:58.905 --> 00:22:02.925 When he writes one star reviews, that's what actually gets me to listen 00:22:02.925 --> 00:22:07.334 to that podcast because he has that British sarcasm and that British 00:22:07.365 --> 00:22:11.235 snarkiness, that I was like, oh, you're so nice, but you're really not. 00:22:11.685 --> 00:22:13.155 So I love the way he writes. 00:22:13.335 --> 00:22:17.955 So he's the type of professional snarky, one star reviewer that 00:22:17.955 --> 00:22:19.695 I like from a big publication. 00:22:19.965 --> 00:22:23.835 And so his style of writing, but he tells me why I shouldn't listen to it, 00:22:23.985 --> 00:22:25.665 even though now I wanna listen to it. 00:22:26.085 --> 00:22:28.575 Jennifer-Lee: That's the same thing, if Rotten Tomatoes is like, when I see that 00:22:28.575 --> 00:22:30.945 spilled popcorn, I have to watch it. 00:22:31.005 --> 00:22:34.185 And then I regret it halfway through because I was like, they were right. 00:22:34.515 --> 00:22:36.915 That popcorn spilled over for a reason. 00:22:37.290 --> 00:22:41.760 When it comes to a higher education podcasting, obviously 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:43.570 Great Pods is a great resource. 00:22:43.790 --> 00:22:47.460 There are a few podcasts on there from the higher education family, 00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:49.500 but there's not that many yet. 00:22:49.530 --> 00:22:51.000 I feel like we can turn it around. 00:22:51.540 --> 00:22:56.070 Why should our audience listening, or maybe even some of our past guests, 00:22:56.310 --> 00:22:59.250 put their podcasts on Great Pods? 00:22:59.550 --> 00:23:04.380 Imran Ahmed: When I was starting off, I, how did I fit into the space? 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:06.060 I had to figure out how to fit into the space. 00:23:06.375 --> 00:23:09.225 And especially independent podcasters. 00:23:09.495 --> 00:23:12.735 Big networks have an easier time to get reviewed. 00:23:12.825 --> 00:23:15.765 But how does an independent podcaster get reviewed but also 00:23:15.765 --> 00:23:17.745 get involved in Great Pods? 00:23:17.745 --> 00:23:22.575 So one of the rules that I relaxed was that I would add a 00:23:22.575 --> 00:23:24.375 podcast regardless of review. 00:23:24.375 --> 00:23:27.825 So now I'm just building out the directory as a podcast directory. 00:23:28.095 --> 00:23:32.415 And the one thing that you cannot do on the site is if you search 00:23:32.415 --> 00:23:37.965 for a podcast and it does not have a review, it will not show up. 00:23:38.205 --> 00:23:41.265 When it has a review, then it will show up. 00:23:41.595 --> 00:23:45.645 One of the things that we were able to do is that regardless on whether 00:23:45.645 --> 00:23:50.055 it's visible on Great Pods or not, Google SEO will still index it. 00:23:50.145 --> 00:23:51.195 So that's a good thing. 00:23:51.510 --> 00:23:57.060 So the advantage that I propose to your listeners is that by adding it to Great 00:23:57.060 --> 00:23:59.160 Pods, our Google SEO is pretty good. 00:23:59.340 --> 00:24:02.820 So when it comes to podcast reviews, you put in the podcast name and 00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:06.900 podcast review, we will show up on the first page as opposed the fifth or 00:24:06.900 --> 00:24:09.300 sixth or whatever page on Google SEO. 00:24:09.300 --> 00:24:12.720 So that's something I would recommend for users to get on Great Pods because 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:14.460 our Google SEO ranking is pretty good. 00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:18.900 The second thing is, especially for your audience, one of the things I added 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:22.260 in the last couple months is that you guys can add the pod, I don't have to 00:24:22.260 --> 00:24:28.080 manually add podcasts anymore, so your audience can, and you know, they can 00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:29.910 select the genres that they see fit. 00:24:30.030 --> 00:24:34.140 Neil McPhedran: I was looking at it from the higher ed lens, and there is a 00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:39.870 lot, I would say most shows coming from universities, there is a spot for you. 00:24:39.870 --> 00:24:42.870 Like there's legal podcast category if they're from a law 00:24:42.870 --> 00:24:44.730 school, like so on and so forth. 00:24:44.790 --> 00:24:49.740 There really is a genre for the vast majority of university podcasters. 00:24:49.770 --> 00:24:52.650 Imran Ahmed: Which I will say is a potential collaboration for us. 00:24:53.150 --> 00:24:57.210 When that time comes, when I'm doing the refresh and refreshing the genres 00:24:57.210 --> 00:25:01.380 and how they're categorized, maybe we work together on how we categorize that. 00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:04.470 We can start with the higher education part and be like, all right, these are 00:25:04.530 --> 00:25:07.950 the different styles of genres that we think that are in the higher ed, and 00:25:07.950 --> 00:25:10.020 then we can ladder it for the site. 00:25:10.020 --> 00:25:10.800 I think that'd be great. 00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:14.220 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, so any of the listeners you go to submit your 00:25:14.520 --> 00:25:18.720 show, we'll put the link of how to submit your show in the show notes. 00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:24.120 When you go and you look at the genres, you don't see something that fits, then 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.430 let us know when we will let you know. 00:25:26.820 --> 00:25:27.090 Imran Ahmed: Yeah. 00:25:27.090 --> 00:25:31.110 Just reach out to them and it takes me like a five second fix in the 00:25:31.110 --> 00:25:34.860 database to add or delete a genre or fix a genre or something like that. 00:25:34.860 --> 00:25:36.150 So, that I can easily do. 00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:38.400 Neil McPhedran: Are you seeing, like, so you've been at it 00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.360 for a bunch of years now. 00:25:39.510 --> 00:25:42.060 You must be seeing that grow. 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:46.360 Like you must be seeing more and more reviews of podcasts. 00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:50.295 As podcasts kind of grows and it's turning into more of a mainstream, 00:25:50.295 --> 00:25:54.075 if you will, you must also see the growth of reviews as well. 00:25:54.135 --> 00:25:56.535 Imran Ahmed: It's a mixed bag still. 00:25:56.535 --> 00:26:01.635 I think the, my initial start, it grew like probably the first two years and 00:26:01.635 --> 00:26:04.725 maybe 'cause also I was looking for 'em too, looking for these writers. 00:26:04.725 --> 00:26:05.475 Do they exist? 00:26:05.475 --> 00:26:05.985 Where are they? 00:26:05.985 --> 00:26:06.825 Why are they hiding? 00:26:06.885 --> 00:26:09.830 You know, even though they have their names out there, it was 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:11.420 difficult to find these reviews. 00:26:11.510 --> 00:26:17.180 So with that understanding, is that it kind of, I'm still finding new ones. 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:19.730 It's not growing like I, when I think of growth, I'm thinking 00:26:19.730 --> 00:26:20.870 like exponential growth. 00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:22.210 It's not exponential growth. 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:24.860 We're talking about like one person a month that I'm discovering or 00:26:24.860 --> 00:26:27.950 something or another, or maybe they're just doing a one-off job, 00:26:27.950 --> 00:26:29.510 but I've never seen that name before. 00:26:29.870 --> 00:26:33.675 I've added probably already four hundred names into the database as 00:26:33.675 --> 00:26:36.645 far as the professional reviewers, you know, they've written for maybe 00:26:36.645 --> 00:26:38.745 Esquire, but it's in a list format. 00:26:38.805 --> 00:26:42.255 But they still tell you why they like the podcast, so that's why I add it. 00:26:42.315 --> 00:26:44.475 Not all listicles make it into Great Pods. 00:26:44.685 --> 00:26:47.805 But those people that just do once a year type of list. 00:26:48.015 --> 00:26:50.625 And then there's the weekly, there's the monthly, so there's 00:26:50.715 --> 00:26:53.190 inconsistency between it all. 00:26:53.490 --> 00:26:55.800 It's not this exponential growth that we're talking about. 00:26:55.800 --> 00:26:57.030 Neil McPhedran: It seems like some opportunity. 00:26:57.030 --> 00:26:59.130 Imran Ahmed: Yeah, there's definitely, I encourage, I 00:26:59.130 --> 00:27:00.840 definitely, oh, a hundred percent. 00:27:00.990 --> 00:27:04.620 I don't like to disparage anybody who thinks about like writing at all. 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.490 I'm not a writer. 00:27:05.820 --> 00:27:08.730 I don't consider myself a writer, but I've been writing that newsletter 00:27:08.730 --> 00:27:10.980 for five years, once a week straight. 00:27:11.264 --> 00:27:15.254 I mean now once a month, but because I'm actually building new products, 00:27:15.345 --> 00:27:19.245 so my time is spent away from writing the newsletter a whole lot now. 00:27:19.304 --> 00:27:20.774 However, I encourage that. 00:27:20.774 --> 00:27:21.975 I see differences. 00:27:21.975 --> 00:27:26.415 For example, if you have a BIPOC audience listener that sees that, 00:27:26.415 --> 00:27:27.945 hey, I listen to a lot of podcasts. 00:27:27.945 --> 00:27:31.215 I listen to a lot of higher ed podcasts, and you think you can articulate, at 00:27:31.215 --> 00:27:33.044 least tell me why or why you shouldn't. 00:27:33.044 --> 00:27:38.400 You can start a Substack or a blog for free, I will index it on Great Pods. 00:27:38.580 --> 00:27:43.110 And if you do it consistently, add this to the guidelines that I was creating. 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.370 Number three, if you write consistently on a blog, a public facing like 00:27:47.370 --> 00:27:51.960 linkable source, I will consider you a critic or a professional reviewer 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.360 and start linking your pieces. 00:27:54.360 --> 00:27:58.740 So it's one of the things I've lacked, I've seen in writers is black writers. 00:27:58.860 --> 00:27:59.820 I don't see black writers. 00:28:00.735 --> 00:28:04.485 If you think there's a need, if you think you wanna write a review once 00:28:04.485 --> 00:28:07.275 a month, just start writing a review once a month on, on your Substack. 00:28:08.055 --> 00:28:08.595 It's easy. 00:28:08.595 --> 00:28:09.135 It's free. 00:28:09.165 --> 00:28:11.955 I can link to it and start reviewing podcasts. 00:28:13.115 --> 00:28:16.815 And then I can consider you a reviewer, but start doing it consistently. 00:28:17.145 --> 00:28:18.825 You can definitely grow in the US. 00:28:18.825 --> 00:28:22.155 A lot of the US publications are usually independent writers. 00:28:22.455 --> 00:28:24.025 A lot of 'em from Substack. 00:28:24.245 --> 00:28:25.545 That's why I say that too. 00:28:26.115 --> 00:28:31.335 And fewer bigger publications write reviews in the US. 00:28:31.585 --> 00:28:35.425 So that's why I leaned a lot more in my earlier conversation about the UK. 00:28:35.845 --> 00:28:37.675 The UK has a lot of bigger publications. 00:28:37.675 --> 00:28:41.665 They see the value in writing reviews for podcasts. 00:28:41.665 --> 00:28:42.925 They know it's mainstream. 00:28:42.925 --> 00:28:46.495 Over here, even though it's mainstream, I'm not sure what 00:28:46.495 --> 00:28:48.235 the holdup is just quite yet. 00:28:49.595 --> 00:28:52.335 Jennifer-Lee: Well, I think, you know, the industry, and we learn this every 00:28:52.335 --> 00:28:55.875 time we go to conferences, it's so young still compared to traditional media. 00:28:56.175 --> 00:29:01.425 And I think one of the issues too is a lot of people don't realize like reviews, even 00:29:01.425 --> 00:29:06.585 just like Apple reviews, not even talking about reviews on other sites, are a great 00:29:06.585 --> 00:29:09.225 way to get exposure for your podcast. 00:29:09.555 --> 00:29:11.835 And I will look at people's podcasts. 00:29:11.835 --> 00:29:14.865 I'll be like, you know, you do well in listens, but you have 00:29:14.865 --> 00:29:19.455 like one Apple review, or you have like one Spotify star review. 00:29:19.455 --> 00:29:21.555 And people haven't hopped on that yet. 00:29:21.555 --> 00:29:24.615 And I tell people, I say, really go out and find reviews and find 00:29:24.615 --> 00:29:27.345 those opportunities, like being on Great Pods, and other things. 00:29:27.345 --> 00:29:31.905 Because even if it's negative or not, you're getting more exposure and it's 00:29:31.905 --> 00:29:36.165 helping add to that organic growth because everybody wants to find a 00:29:36.165 --> 00:29:40.575 way to expose their podcast, but they don't do any of these things. 00:29:40.725 --> 00:29:42.765 They just put it out on social media and they're like, well, 00:29:42.765 --> 00:29:43.845 I hope someone finds it. 00:29:44.145 --> 00:29:45.115 Neil McPhedran: Well, this has been great. 00:29:45.135 --> 00:29:48.165 I appreciate all your time today and I think there's some really 00:29:48.165 --> 00:29:53.835 good insights here for our audience that is thinking about discovery. 00:29:54.075 --> 00:29:59.355 I think for a lot of higher education university podcasters, the default is 00:29:59.355 --> 00:30:02.385 like, let's find my people in academia. 00:30:02.385 --> 00:30:07.545 And this is something that is definitely outside of that world, but it's a great 00:30:07.545 --> 00:30:12.205 way to, back to the beginning of our conversation about discovery, and it's a 00:30:12.205 --> 00:30:17.215 great way just for your show to pop up in all different kinds of places as well too. 00:30:17.215 --> 00:30:21.534 So I really appreciate your insights and all that you're doing with the Great Pods. 00:30:21.594 --> 00:30:22.105 It's awesome. 00:30:22.254 --> 00:30:22.435 Jennifer-Lee: Yeah. 00:30:22.435 --> 00:30:25.975 As podcasters, we don't take advantage enough of these tools. 00:30:25.975 --> 00:30:27.925 Doesn't matter for in higher education or not. 00:30:27.925 --> 00:30:32.470 And even for higher education space, Neil and I have found that we will 00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:35.770 go to these massive institutions and they don't realize that there's 00:30:35.770 --> 00:30:37.780 other podcasts on their campuses. 00:30:38.020 --> 00:30:38.410 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, that too. 00:30:38.410 --> 00:30:39.490 Jennifer-Lee: Their departments. 00:30:39.670 --> 00:30:43.780 And so Neil has created, which everyone should join, is 00:30:43.879 --> 00:30:46.240 HigherEdPods.com, and it's a network. 00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:49.240 So when you go on there and we have over a thousand podcasts now, you'll 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.295 find out there's so many podcasts in the higher education space. 00:30:53.325 --> 00:30:56.595 So they should all be on Great Pods, link them together. 00:30:57.075 --> 00:30:59.985 Imran Ahmed: That reminds me, one of the things I want to express 00:30:59.985 --> 00:31:03.705 is, it's like the relation I have with my campus that everybody has, 00:31:03.765 --> 00:31:05.415 you should have with your campus. 00:31:05.475 --> 00:31:08.745 But when I started Great Pods out, I didn't think I had resources. 00:31:08.745 --> 00:31:13.155 And as I Googled it and I went to USC in LA in downtown. 00:31:13.155 --> 00:31:16.485 So when I came back during the pandemic and I started Googling 00:31:16.515 --> 00:31:20.725 places in LA, startups, things like that, uSC popped up as an incubator. 00:31:21.215 --> 00:31:23.670 The business school had an incubator. 00:31:23.910 --> 00:31:27.510 I highly encourage anybody that's even thinking about, just go to whatever 00:31:27.510 --> 00:31:31.050 the business school, the engineering school, to see if they have any 00:31:31.050 --> 00:31:33.300 resources, especially for alumni. 00:31:33.510 --> 00:31:36.660 If you're alumni, I didn't know that was available to me as an alumni, 00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:40.980 and now I'm in it, and it's provided a great starting point in community. 00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:45.270 Every cohort, every semester there's new bunch of students, alumni or 00:31:45.270 --> 00:31:47.310 faculty starting their own startups. 00:31:47.610 --> 00:31:52.595 And so we get to be a part of that and have those resources available. 00:31:52.925 --> 00:31:56.615 Not only that, once I started going to campus and I go to campus at least once a 00:31:56.615 --> 00:31:59.725 week, the campus has five or six podcasts. 00:32:00.965 --> 00:32:04.955 As you mentioned, like other campuses, I didn't even know they existed. 00:32:05.205 --> 00:32:08.895 I highly encourage figuring that stuff out and use those resources 00:32:08.895 --> 00:32:13.365 as they are also available to you, as they have been available to me. 00:32:13.725 --> 00:32:16.155 Jennifer-Lee: Great way to end it, and again, we appreciate 00:32:16.155 --> 00:32:17.265 you coming on so much. 00:32:17.265 --> 00:32:18.525 Imran Ahmed: Thank you for bringing me on. 00:32:18.825 --> 00:32:19.275 Jennifer-Lee: Awesome. 00:32:20.295 --> 00:32:22.335 Neil McPhedran: Well that was a great conversation, wasn't it, Jen? 00:32:22.335 --> 00:32:24.795 I really enjoyed chatting with Captain Ron. 00:32:24.845 --> 00:32:28.205 Jennifer-Lee: I really wish he had like a extreme backstory for that. 00:32:28.205 --> 00:32:32.255 I asked him and there is no backstory, but still a cool nickname. 00:32:32.435 --> 00:32:34.685 What I really do love is this is a smart guy. 00:32:34.685 --> 00:32:37.205 He's got this great site, it's ever evolving. 00:32:37.475 --> 00:32:41.649 And it's something like we talked about in the podcast that not enough of us do this. 00:32:41.649 --> 00:32:45.729 There are stuff out there, different articles, different rate your podcast 00:32:45.729 --> 00:32:50.409 sites, podcasts in the top ten, whatever that genre might be, and 00:32:50.409 --> 00:32:52.270 we can all submit to this stuff. 00:32:52.300 --> 00:32:56.770 Again, it just takes time on our end as the podcaster and as the higher ed 00:32:56.770 --> 00:32:58.750 podcaster, to find all these things. 00:32:58.959 --> 00:33:01.449 But that's something great for higher ed podcasters to do too. 00:33:01.479 --> 00:33:05.020 There are tons of articles out there that will probably mention your podcast. 00:33:05.229 --> 00:33:06.550 You just gotta submit it. 00:33:06.820 --> 00:33:11.070 So really at the end of the day, it makes it more searchable for your 00:33:11.070 --> 00:33:13.890 listeners, and really that's what we want. 00:33:13.890 --> 00:33:15.630 We wanna gain more listeners too. 00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:20.040 So I thought it was a great topic for higher ed podcasters because we always 00:33:20.040 --> 00:33:23.370 talk about building the podcast, but we don't really talk about growing it. 00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:27.330 Neil McPhedran: Yeah, I think there's some really applicable stuff for discovery. 00:33:27.785 --> 00:33:32.555 And some of the sort of mechanics of our podcast, like categories. 00:33:32.555 --> 00:33:36.395 So, well, Jen, why don't we leave it there? 00:33:37.235 --> 00:33:39.755 Jennifer-Lee: Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a 00:33:39.755 --> 00:33:41.915 podcast for higher education podcasters. 00:33:41.915 --> 00:33:45.125 We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. 00:33:45.395 --> 00:33:48.515 If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our 00:33:48.515 --> 00:33:51.515 podcast on your preferred platform so you never miss an episode. 00:33:51.875 --> 00:33:55.235 But if you find this episode particularly valuable, please consider 00:33:55.235 --> 00:33:58.300 sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested 00:33:58.300 --> 00:33:59.919 in higher education podcasts. 00:34:00.129 --> 00:34:04.929 We also invite you to join your peers on HigherEdPods.com, where you can connect 00:34:04.929 --> 00:34:08.679 with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. 00:34:09.100 --> 00:34:11.109 Thank you for being part of our community. 00:34:11.109 --> 00:34:15.360 We look forward to continuing to bring valuable insights and conversations 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.159 on higher education podcasts. 00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:18.665 See you in the next episode.