WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:10.746 --> 00:00:16.766 Jethro D. Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:17.306 --> 00:00:18.766 I am your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:18.766 --> 00:00:21.526 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:35.202 --> 00:00:37.332 Welcome to Transformative Principle. 00:00:37.932 --> 00:00:40.452 I am so excited for my conversation today. 00:00:40.562 --> 00:00:46.292 I've got Mike Caldwell here from Linked Leaders, and uh, he is awesome. 00:00:46.792 --> 00:00:50.532 Uh, let me, let me just set the stage a little bit. 00:00:50.872 --> 00:01:00.452 Uh, so Mike, um, created this thing called Linked Leaders, which is a way for people to get mentoring as school leaders. 00:01:01.147 --> 00:01:07.407 Uh, essentially from the person they need it when they need it, which I think is just a great idea. 00:01:07.507 --> 00:01:11.167 As you know, I've been coaching principals for the last, uh, 10 years almost. 00:01:11.427 --> 00:01:22.567 And um, and typically I enter into long-term things with people, but what I do the most of is people say, Hey, I've got this question and I need some help. 00:01:23.372 --> 00:01:24.992 Can you work with me on this? 00:01:25.292 --> 00:01:30.832 And, uh, we do a 30 minute call and a lot of times that just solves their problem. 00:01:30.932 --> 00:01:37.192 And what Mike's done is created a group where you can go get those, uh, those problems answered. 00:01:37.452 --> 00:01:39.632 And is that, is that a good enough summary, Mike? 00:01:39.702 --> 00:01:41.272 What, what else would you add there? 00:01:42.692 --> 00:01:43.052 Mike Caldwell: I think so. 00:01:43.212 --> 00:01:48.532 I mean, I think the people I talk to, uh, when I share this idea that what immediately clicks for them. 00:01:48.852 --> 00:01:52.012 'em, um, and maybe this is the mentality of a principal and kind of what they need. 00:01:52.012 --> 00:01:54.532 They're like, oh, it's teletherapy for, for school leaders. 00:01:54.772 --> 00:01:56.692 I was like, yeah, that's kind of what it is. 00:01:57.452 --> 00:01:57.692 , I mean, 00:01:57.922 --> 00:01:58.122 Jethro D. Jones: you go. 00:01:58.442 --> 00:02:05.572 Mike Caldwell: yeah, it's, it's real time kind of on demand mentoring and coaching and, and, and or therapy depending on what the principal needs. 00:02:05.752 --> 00:02:09.932 And as a former, as we both know, as, as former school leaders, um. 00:02:10.582 --> 00:02:22.067 Sometimes you just need to talk to somebody that has been in your shoes and understand your pain, and, and you can commiserate and hopefully come out of it, um, with a clear head and kind of new hope. 00:02:22.837 --> 00:02:25.047 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, and, and two things I would add. 00:02:25.067 --> 00:02:29.567 Number one, it's not actually therapy, so don't, don't get it twisted folks. 00:02:29.747 --> 00:02:30.217 Mike Caldwell: Thank you. 00:02:30.407 --> 00:02:32.767 Jethro D. Jones: not actually therapy and we're not claiming that it is. 00:02:33.372 --> 00:02:43.512 Um, but, but also you, you often need somebody who's not connected to all the politics that are going on in your school district or your school because they're real. 00:02:43.852 --> 00:02:53.152 And sometimes you, well, not sometimes, often you get clouded by that, and it's really difficult to not be clouded by that. 00:02:53.372 --> 00:02:57.952 And the, the thing that I hear most often from people that I'm coaching is. 00:02:58.647 --> 00:03:16.267 It is, it is so helpful to have someone who's not in all the drama of what's going on, so you can just cut to the real issue instead of, you know, when somebody, somebody will come up to me with a problem and they'll give like this 15 minute exposition of what the problem is. 00:03:17.142 --> 00:03:23.962 And I'll be able to say, the real problem is you didn't communicate expectations clearly six months ago. 00:03:24.422 --> 00:03:26.122 And they're like, oh my gosh, you're right. 00:03:26.582 --> 00:03:41.162 And the only reason I can see that, that they can't is 'cause I'm not sucked into all the drama and being a detached observer who only cares about the success of the person that I'm talking to and their real success, not the 00:03:42.002 --> 00:03:46.302 Not the artificial or superficial success, but their real deep success. 00:03:46.642 --> 00:03:50.462 Uh, I, I can have those insights very easily. 00:03:50.922 --> 00:03:52.462 Um, what would you add to that, Mike? 00:03:53.817 --> 00:03:55.927 Mike Caldwell: Hundred percent of what you're saying. 00:03:55.927 --> 00:03:58.207 And first of all, I'm glad you clarified that. 00:03:58.207 --> 00:03:58.327 It 00:03:58.442 --> 00:03:58.732 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, 00:03:59.787 --> 00:04:02.717 Mike Caldwell: that tongue in cheek and, and you're, you're a hundred percent right. 00:04:02.897 --> 00:04:04.357 Uh, yeah. 00:04:04.457 --> 00:04:11.817 You know when to one, one, we all know school leaders don't, I mean, don't have the luxury of time, so. 00:04:12.987 --> 00:04:14.447 We, we can't waste time here, right? 00:04:14.467 --> 00:04:18.567 So you gotta get right to like, what, what are the, what are the challenges? 00:04:18.867 --> 00:04:27.767 And, and without beating around the bush, like kind of really dive into the weeds together and figure out what can we do to, to mitigate or support some of those challenges. 00:04:28.247 --> 00:04:37.967 I would add to, to what you said this element of, of, um, of safety in, in a place where you can go and be real. 00:04:39.052 --> 00:04:43.912 Within, sometimes you have that with, with the team that you're around or within your district. 00:04:44.012 --> 00:04:57.352 But oftentimes, and I heard this a lot from, from female leaders that I was talking to as I was developing this concept and kind of working on different, um, working groups and, and focus groups to kind of build this idea. 00:04:58.052 --> 00:05:06.502 But what I heard most often from female school leaders is they don't feel like they can afford to be vulnerable. 00:05:07.677 --> 00:05:11.297 In the workplace, whether it's with their peers or with their boss. 00:05:11.397 --> 00:05:22.497 And it's especially, they felt especially true and for, for, for females and to have, and I've worked with a lot of great female administrators, which has been phenomenal and I've learned a lot from them. 00:05:23.157 --> 00:05:35.517 Um, but there is this kind of, um, you know, beauty in creating a safe place where it's not anonymous, but it's a place where you're not gonna be 00:05:36.802 --> 00:05:41.262 You don't feel, feel being judged by someone in your district or in your school. 00:05:41.362 --> 00:05:44.462 You can go and be really vulnerable and real, and there's a lot of power in that. 00:05:44.762 --> 00:05:51.222 Um, and that's kind of the, the, the focus and what we're trying to build is a safe place to, for peers to meet. 00:05:51.842 --> 00:05:58.192 And, uh, you don't have to work, work through different challenges and, and, and get better as leaders. 00:05:59.761 --> 00:06:07.361 Jethro D. Jones: I don't love everything that Brene Brown says, but one of the things that I really like is that she uses the phrase brave space instead of safe space. 00:06:07.781 --> 00:06:16.736 And what I really appreciate about that is that I. It, it's a place that enables you to be brave rather than a place that enables you to feel safe. 00:06:16.976 --> 00:06:18.776 'cause there, there are differences there, right? 00:06:19.566 --> 00:06:22.776 Safe means nothing, nothing bad can happen here. 00:06:23.146 --> 00:06:25.416 Brave means something bad might still happen. 00:06:25.776 --> 00:06:28.576 I may get embarrassed, but I can still take that risk. 00:06:28.876 --> 00:06:39.816 And, and that's one thing that I really appreciate about that and what I try to create in my, uh, coaching situations with principals is you can say where you screwed up here. 00:06:40.666 --> 00:06:42.646 And nobody's gonna attack you over it. 00:06:43.186 --> 00:06:50.966 But you can't always say that in a, in your district or in with your peer colleagues that are close to you. 00:06:51.466 --> 00:06:55.326 Um, it, it can be really tough to say what's really going on. 00:06:55.346 --> 00:07:01.646 It can be tough to say that maybe you screwed up or that you're not sure of what the right answer is. 00:07:01.906 --> 00:07:04.486 And there can be judgment, there can be repercussions. 00:07:04.986 --> 00:07:28.511 Um, there can be situations where . Uh, you saying one thing in a, in a, in a meeting or with a group of people could lead to later the superintendent saying, I won't even consider this person for this other position because of that thing you said, trying to be vulnerable, but 00:07:29.176 --> 00:07:35.876 Uh, not, not being aware that that vulnerability was gonna harm you later on, uh, without you even knowing it. 00:07:36.056 --> 00:07:40.116 And, and so that's another reason why it's good to have someone detached. 00:07:40.116 --> 00:07:41.036 What else would you add there? 00:07:42.101 --> 00:07:42.391 Mike Caldwell: Yeah. 00:07:43.231 --> 00:08:10.931 I was recently working with a elementary school principal over in the, in the northeast, um, part of the US and you know, she's part of a large district and is . In her third year, kind of going through the growing pains, she's, she's dealing with some significant challenges within, within her school, um, that I don't envy, but she works with, I mean, in their district, there's, I think eight other elementary school principals, so I. 00:08:11.176 --> 00:08:23.716 On the surface, she would say, well, she has eight peers that she can go and reach out to that are going through similar things that are that, and that was my first thought when I'm talking to her is like, what, how often do you reach out to, to these peers? 00:08:24.496 --> 00:08:24.956 And uh. 00:08:25.836 --> 00:08:27.056 In that particular environment. 00:08:27.056 --> 00:08:27.456 Environment. 00:08:27.496 --> 00:08:33.536 I know it's not the case in all, in all districts, but in, in that particular environment, she said, no, that's one of the last things I'll do. 00:08:33.776 --> 00:08:38.736 I did that once and my hand was slapped by the district saying, why wouldn't you come to us? 00:08:39.356 --> 00:08:43.376 And then I was judged by other school leaders because I asked this question. 00:08:43.556 --> 00:08:54.761 So she just shut down, hunker down, and has been kind of working in, in isolation really, um, over the last year or so because she got burned by . Seeking help. 00:08:55.406 --> 00:08:57.866 Um, so I, I think it's a real challenge. 00:08:58.056 --> 00:08:58.346 Yeah. 00:08:59.276 --> 00:09:06.566 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, it, it is a real challenge and I've heard that story hundreds of times over the last decade of working with principals and 00:09:06.746 --> 00:09:14.516 Mike Caldwell: and what was cool is through this, through this Link leaders, um, know, I, after talking to her, I was like, C come on onto this. 00:09:14.536 --> 00:09:16.676 You know, I can, I can recommend a couple of the leaders. 00:09:16.736 --> 00:09:20.916 You know, we have 25 or so different, different mentors from all over the country on, on here. 00:09:21.576 --> 00:09:22.076 And, um. 00:09:24.016 --> 00:09:26.896 Recommend a couple that, but you can choose who you, who you wanna meet with. 00:09:26.956 --> 00:09:31.376 And she met with, um, one of our mentors from Oklahoma, and they only met for 30 minutes. 00:09:31.676 --> 00:09:45.136 Um, but she sent me this, this really nice text in how just in 30 minutes she felt, um, both affirmed, empowered, and had kind of a clear path. 00:09:45.951 --> 00:09:48.771 To tackle some of the challenges that she was she was dealing with. 00:09:49.231 --> 00:09:52.091 Now, I don't think, you know, nothing, there's no silver bullet here. 00:09:52.091 --> 00:10:09.051 There's, you know, there's still gonna be challenges that you're dealing with, but if you can go get that in 30 minutes in a, in a brave space where you can really share your challenges, um, I just think there's a lot of power in, in, in peer-to-peer mentoring, and so I'm happy to, to be able to connect people that, that, that need it. 00:10:09.961 --> 00:10:23.021 Jethro D. Jones: And, and Mike, this is so key because you, anybody sitting in the chair of a principal knows how you're pulled in so many different ways that the board wants one thing, the superintendent wants another. 00:10:23.641 --> 00:10:31.581 The, uh, sometimes the superintendent and the border pitting you, uh, against each other and they're using you as a pawn. 00:10:31.721 --> 00:10:33.341 Uh, parents are doing the same thing. 00:10:33.661 --> 00:10:34.541 Teachers are doing the same thing. 00:10:35.471 --> 00:10:43.551 Students have another different need and like you are literally pulled in so many different directions and it can feel incredibly lonely and isolating. 00:10:43.971 --> 00:11:03.991 And that is the thing that I hear most often from principals, that despite what supports may be in place, despite what supports they do have, they often just feel lonely and that, um, districts can do a great job, but at the same time, like, like you said, uh. 00:11:05.151 --> 00:11:06.651 Asking the wrong question. 00:11:07.561 --> 00:11:10.021 Can have repercussions that you don't even know about. 00:11:10.641 --> 00:11:21.141 And, and I don't, I do not think that people are like out there intentionally saying and doing awful things to get principals in trouble, but they're seeing a different picture. 00:11:21.481 --> 00:11:27.101 And so what somebody says or asks could be seen in a different light and you don't always know. 00:11:27.566 --> 00:11:29.386 As the principal, what those things look like. 00:11:30.006 --> 00:11:39.066 And so you may have a very supportive, uh, network around you, and that's great, but sometimes you still need, uh, an outside perspective. 00:11:39.486 --> 00:11:45.786 And, and one of the things that I tell the people that I coach is I'm, I'm here to help you be a better person. 00:11:46.626 --> 00:11:47.116 Overall. 00:11:47.536 --> 00:11:59.556 And so I'm like, even if, even if the district hires me like I am here to help you as a person holistically, not just, you know, help you become a better principal. 00:12:00.096 --> 00:12:06.716 And I've had to coach many people out of their jobs and say, this isn't the right place for you. 00:12:06.776 --> 00:12:12.076 You're never gonna succeed here because they keep setting you up for failure and. 00:12:12.691 --> 00:12:22.481 Uh, a lot of times people don't see that and they're not aware of it, and then later, once they're out, they're like, I can't believe how great my new district is. 00:12:22.871 --> 00:12:24.361 Like, none of this stuff is happening. 00:12:24.501 --> 00:12:27.881 And, and it is, it's scary to make that leap. 00:12:28.021 --> 00:12:35.361 And it's not all doom and gloom, don't get me wrong, but some people just, you know, if you've been in the same district for your whole career, you just don't know. 00:12:35.871 --> 00:12:36.921 What else is going on? 00:12:37.181 --> 00:12:45.041 Uh, even if you've been in different districts as a teacher and then you're a principal in a different place, you, you just, uh, you don't always see the bigger picture. 00:12:45.141 --> 00:12:51.161 So having somebody else to talk with and, and give additional support is really, really beneficial. 00:12:51.841 --> 00:12:51.961 I. 00:12:54.036 --> 00:12:54.276 Mike Caldwell: Absolutely. 00:12:54.496 --> 00:12:59.436 You know, and, and we really have, you know, a retention problem at the, at the school leadership level. 00:12:59.566 --> 00:12:59.916 Right. 00:13:00.176 --> 00:13:12.196 Um, you know, there's been, I dunno what the most recent study study is, but you know, a few years back, na um, nas, national Association of SEC Secondary School Principals did a pretty comprehensive study on, on principal retention. 00:13:12.416 --> 00:13:17.156 And at that time, you know, they talked about one in six principals leave their school each year. 00:13:18.056 --> 00:13:19.536 I mean, annually, one in six. 00:13:20.236 --> 00:13:23.496 Um, and that's even more in, in high poverty schools. 00:13:23.596 --> 00:13:35.616 And that, um, a recent stat, stat that I, I le read is, you know, one in one and two or 50% of, of principals are, are considering leaving their job each year just due to the stress. 00:13:36.396 --> 00:13:45.536 Um, I, I was reading, uh, just skimming through some of the Facebook groups that are, you know, principal based Facebook groups and I came across this one, uh, this morning. 00:13:46.296 --> 00:13:50.931 I. The, the, the quote or the, the prompt was anyone else feeling this? 00:13:51.191 --> 00:14:01.171 And it's exhaustor, reformulated, um, , which is an adjective That means the feeling of being exhausted, overwhelmed, and overstimulated all at once. 00:14:01.951 --> 00:14:12.051 Um, and for any of us that have wore, wore the hat as a principal, you feel exhaust ord just about all the time. 00:14:12.361 --> 00:14:20.771 It's, it's a challenging job and I don't think there is a. I'm convinced, um, we should have a debate on here sometime, like, what is the hardest job in the world? 00:14:21.071 --> 00:14:26.731 And I would put high school principal or just principal in general, but I think high school principals have it. 00:14:26.731 --> 00:14:33.906 The, the toughest, um, I. And, and I'm biased there, but, uh, I think it might be the hardest job that there is. 00:14:34.166 --> 00:14:38.346 And so there is no, no surprise to me that there is a retention problem. 00:14:39.086 --> 00:14:51.026 Um, and with that, I think there's a quality problem because you can't be the best at everything and you are expected to be the best at everything and all the things that you juggle and, and all those types of things. 00:14:51.726 --> 00:14:52.506 Um, so. 00:14:53.976 --> 00:15:00.706 Time is a huge factor, and that's why I go back to this, this on demand, um, mentorship kind of on your schedule. 00:15:00.926 --> 00:15:03.306 And, and that is, uh, 00:15:05.456 --> 00:15:06.256 I don't have a lot of time. 00:15:06.376 --> 00:15:15.516 I can't go, I don't, I don't have the luxury of going for, you know, sitting in a eight hour workshop and hopefully, hopefully coming away with, you know, 10%. 00:15:16.291 --> 00:15:20.471 You know, of takeaways from, from that, from that information that's gonna make me better as a leader. 00:15:20.781 --> 00:15:31.071 Some of those are great, but really what I need is I'm struggling with this issue, or I need to get better at X and uh, I know I can go connect with somebody tomorrow. 00:15:31.831 --> 00:15:45.126 I. That is really good at X and I'm gonna go spend an hour with them and, uh, I'll be better at the end of that, that hour because it's targeted to what I need right now and, uh, and needs change, right? 00:15:45.286 --> 00:15:47.646 I mean, I think that's a thing that's powerful with me. 00:15:47.646 --> 00:15:50.286 Mentorship is whether you're a first year principal. 00:15:51.941 --> 00:15:54.761 Or a tenure year principal, you're always learning. 00:15:54.761 --> 00:15:55.041 Right? 00:15:55.041 --> 00:16:05.561 That was my tagline, and it still is, and all my, all my emails always learning because you evolve and, and there's always new things that are gonna be challenging you as a, as a school leader. 00:16:05.561 --> 00:16:11.801 And so having a good mentor that can kind of help pull you along and, and push you along, I think is really important. 00:16:12.396 --> 00:16:13.446 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, absolutely. 00:16:13.666 --> 00:16:18.686 And, and like you said, I, I want to key in on that point of, uh, needs change over time. 00:16:19.066 --> 00:16:25.726 And sometimes you don't know the actual problem that you have, and other times you have a, a really clear idea. 00:16:25.791 --> 00:16:29.236 Idea and understanding of like, this is exactly what the problem is. 00:16:29.896 --> 00:16:40.396 And, and what's cool is that in these, uh, situations where, where you've set up this place for people to come and, and get that support is you can, uh. 00:16:41.236 --> 00:16:46.576 You can find, you can find whatever it is that you need, wherever, wherever you're at. 00:16:46.796 --> 00:17:03.776 And, and that's the beauty of the, the network effect of social media and online presence and things like that, that, you know, if, if you, if you have a specific issue, you can go find someone who's probably had that issue also. 00:17:04.116 --> 00:17:07.216 And that's exactly how I've used this podcast for my whole career. 00:17:07.596 --> 00:17:09.336 You know, we're going on, um. 00:17:11.351 --> 00:17:26.036 12 years now and, and I just ask the problems that either I'm facing as a principal, or since I'm not a principal anymore, I'm asking the problems that my principals are facing and that they're coming to me with saying, what do I do here? 00:17:26.296 --> 00:17:32.396 And then I go find someone who can answer it and then I figure it out and then I send 'em a link to the podcast and say, Hey. 00:17:33.001 --> 00:17:48.361 I gave you my advice when we met, but here's this other thing, and maybe this can help, and I think that's such a beautiful thing about the world that we live in now, is that you can get help from, from so many different people in so many different ways, which I just think is amazing. 00:17:48.781 --> 00:17:51.761 So, uh, tell us how, yeah, please go 00:17:51.861 --> 00:18:03.431 Mike Caldwell: me add to that before we ask your next question too, because I think sometimes, um, and I, I, I. You know, I've been guilty of this is, I think it's really, there's a lot of power and curiosity as well, and. 00:18:04.321 --> 00:18:08.421 In seeking differences in how, how things are done. 00:18:08.421 --> 00:18:14.261 Maybe in the same, in the same, you know, same, same job, but looking at, at, at different ways to, to do it. 00:18:14.881 --> 00:18:27.261 And I think sometimes, you know, I'm in, in Idaho and you, and I've been in Idaho my whole career, and you sometimes you get, you know, get, might get trapped into thinking this is how all education is done. 00:18:27.271 --> 00:18:27.621 Right. 00:18:28.121 --> 00:18:29.701 And, uh, what, what the beauty is. 00:18:30.231 --> 00:18:42.411 On this, on this platform too, is you can go connect with school leaders that have worked in international schools, in private schools, charter schools across the country, in different places in the world. 00:18:42.791 --> 00:18:51.331 And if you're just curious about doing things different or trying new things or getting fresh ideas on, on old stuff. 00:18:53.326 --> 00:18:59.466 Man, there is a wealth of opportunity in this where I'm just gonna go on a curiosity hunt, right? 00:18:59.566 --> 00:19:09.986 I'm gonna go and talk to somebody about how they schedule their week, you know, for example, and or how they handle X, Y, or Z, right? 00:19:10.086 --> 00:19:16.466 And to go and, and talk to somebody that's in a completely different kinda landscape, but still is leading a school. 00:19:17.086 --> 00:19:19.466 Um, there could be a lot of power in that as well. 00:19:20.231 --> 00:19:20.521 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 00:19:20.751 --> 00:19:25.921 Well, and you know, that, that gets to the point of like, what does this look like for someone? 00:19:26.291 --> 00:19:32.481 Where do they go and what, what do they get, uh, when they become part of Linked Leaders? 00:19:32.631 --> 00:19:35.121 What and, and what kind of people are you looking for? 00:19:35.681 --> 00:19:35.801 I. 00:19:39.711 --> 00:19:43.211 Mike Caldwell: So the type of people we're looking for, for mentors and and coaches? 00:19:43.311 --> 00:19:45.211 Is that what you're looking, or you're talking about mentees? 00:19:46.056 --> 00:19:47.306 Jethro D. Jones: Both is what I'm looking for. 00:19:48.476 --> 00:20:07.486 Mike Caldwell: Yeah, so, so on the me mentor side, obviously people that, um, you know, have had, had enough experience, whether they're still leading a school or, you know, or they could be in the district office, but they have been, been in the, the, the big seat, if you will, and, and wore the hat as a school leader I think is really important. 00:20:08.226 --> 00:20:08.446 Um. 00:20:09.276 --> 00:20:27.096 , but somebody also that just has a genuine, um, kind of authentic drive to give back and to support, um, those that, um, you are either less experienced in their, in their career or are just looking for support and, and guidance. 00:20:27.396 --> 00:20:32.136 So somebody that has that kind of drive and and mentality to, to give back. 00:20:32.876 --> 00:20:33.096 Um. 00:20:34.926 --> 00:20:50.496 Then obviously, you know, somebody that, from a, from a character standpoint is, is willing to listen first and understand kind of what, as opposed to someone that just wants to tell you everything that they know, you know, because a mentee doesn't come just to get. 00:20:51.531 --> 00:20:55.151 You know, talked to or told how to do things. 00:20:55.491 --> 00:21:23.496 Um, it's, it's a conversation that you have and, and it starts with the mentor really keying in on and listening like you, like you said, you know, this person described their, their whole problem and you zeroed in on, on, on the issue and help them kind of uncover that where they were maybe . Glossing over it or, or, or not seeing it themselves, but you had to be a, a, a, a listener first and, and, and an empathetic listener. 00:21:23.626 --> 00:21:23.976 Right. 00:21:24.236 --> 00:21:26.496 And with, without, without judgment. 00:21:26.636 --> 00:21:29.616 And so those are the kind of qualities that we're looking for. 00:21:29.696 --> 00:21:35.136 I don't think it's, it's necessarily they have to have, you know, this certificate or this, you know. 00:21:35.196 --> 00:21:41.856 But I think when you go to the coaching level, um, where, you know, and there is a difference between mentoring, coaching, um, 00:21:42.481 --> 00:21:44.246 There's more of a skillset there. 00:21:44.586 --> 00:21:50.086 Um, and there's different, you know, entities that, that provide training and things like that for, for that. 00:21:50.266 --> 00:22:03.566 But, um, you know, the mentoring is kind of more reading and reacting and coaching is kind of guiding through kind of a, towards a, towards a goal and, and kind of shepherding that person along towards, towards their goals. 00:22:04.266 --> 00:22:06.126 So those are the kind of people we're looking for. 00:22:06.386 --> 00:22:07.966 Um, right now we have a really good. 00:22:08.636 --> 00:22:14.936 You know, base of, of individuals that, um, are eager to support and help anybody that comes, comes in. 00:22:15.956 --> 00:22:26.936 So, on the mentee side, you know, I think there's, if you're, if you're leading a school and you could look me dead in the eye and say, I am, I got it all together. 00:22:27.776 --> 00:22:28.696 I don't need help. 00:22:29.176 --> 00:22:30.016 I don't need support. 00:22:30.796 --> 00:22:31.016 Um. 00:22:32.051 --> 00:22:36.831 You're one of the very , you're the 1% or you're just flat out lying. 00:22:36.841 --> 00:22:37.191 Right? 00:22:37.611 --> 00:22:46.631 So I think there's, if you're in a school leadership level and, and, and I think, I think you're probably needing some support in some capacity. 00:22:47.291 --> 00:22:51.831 Um, but what we're looking for is people that actually want to do something about it, right? 00:22:52.141 --> 00:22:57.231 It's, it's one thing to be miserable and drowning and is exhaust ord. 00:22:57.771 --> 00:22:59.471 Um, but it's another thing to say. 00:23:00.456 --> 00:23:12.556 But what am I gonna do to take care of myself so that I can be a better leader to support my, my students to my faculty, my staff, um, you know, and, and mentorship and, and, and getting that kind of support as part of it. 00:23:12.616 --> 00:23:17.396 But sleeping and eating and exercise and all those types of things obviously are super important as well. 00:23:18.106 --> 00:23:21.036 Balancing, you know, your work life and, and those types of things. 00:23:21.096 --> 00:23:26.036 But, but taking care of yourself professionally, um, so that you can better take care of other people. 00:23:26.456 --> 00:23:27.956 So I think there's a lot of people that need help. 00:23:28.531 --> 00:23:32.536 But we're looking for the people that need help and are also willing to do something about it. 00:23:33.211 --> 00:23:33.501 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 00:23:33.841 --> 00:23:39.301 And, and that, that's so key because, um, you, you gotta take the action, right? 00:23:39.961 --> 00:23:40.181 You. 00:23:41.876 --> 00:23:48.756 I I talk to a lot of people who are like learning constantly and never actually taking the action that they need to. 00:23:49.136 --> 00:23:56.396 And, and that's something that's just, you gotta be able to take action and, and it's easy to ask for help. 00:23:56.396 --> 00:24:00.956 It's easy to, um, to ask for advice and to hear what people have to say. 00:24:00.956 --> 00:24:08.836 It's easy to research and it's easy to make that busyness of researching and learning look like you're actually doing something, but that's not always. 00:24:09.666 --> 00:24:12.926 Uh, the what's gonna move the needle, you gotta actually take action. 00:24:13.106 --> 00:24:17.446 So that's one of the things that I ask in each of my coaching calls is, what, what are you gonna do? 00:24:17.506 --> 00:24:21.726 What's the action you're gonna take and what are you gonna report back on next time? 00:24:22.186 --> 00:24:28.206 And, um, I often will schedule emails or schedule texts to follow up with people right then and there. 00:24:28.951 --> 00:24:30.891 And say, how'd you do on this thing? 00:24:31.111 --> 00:24:40.211 And, and that's a really good little trick that I have that, um, that lets them know I'm gonna follow up and, and get some, some answers. 00:24:41.363 --> 00:24:49.241 So, uh, my last question is, what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a transformative principle like you, Mike? 00:24:53.106 --> 00:24:53.326 Mike Caldwell: Wow. 00:24:53.666 --> 00:24:53.886 Um, 00:24:56.986 --> 00:25:01.506 I think just not settling for where you are today, regardless of where you are. 00:25:01.846 --> 00:25:23.266 Um, you know, whether you're a brand new principal that's just trying to get your feet underneath you or you're a. 20 year veteran that, um, has seen probably anything and everything that's, that's come your way is be curious to keep learning and growing regardless of where you are in your, in your, in your career. 00:25:24.046 --> 00:25:28.371 And, um, I. There's so many opportunities to, to, to be curious. 00:25:28.401 --> 00:25:35.651 There's a lot of opportunities out there and, uh, I think one of the best is, is when you can go and learn from, from other people. 00:25:35.951 --> 00:25:40.891 Um, and, and not just other people that have more experience than you or whatever. 00:25:40.921 --> 00:25:41.611 I've learned a lot. 00:25:41.611 --> 00:25:50.891 There's a, there's a particular teacher, um, in Wyoming actually that, um, I've been talking through to on this project and gosh, I've learned. 00:25:51.561 --> 00:25:53.611 Just so much from, from from him, right? 00:25:53.761 --> 00:25:54.851 Like, and 00:25:55.791 --> 00:25:56.131 Jethro D. Jones: Is that 00:25:56.281 --> 00:25:57.641 Mike Caldwell: a lot from, yeah. 00:25:57.831 --> 00:25:58.281 It's Aaron. 00:25:58.471 --> 00:25:58.761 Yeah. 00:25:59.011 --> 00:26:00.841 Isn't he a fantastic dude? 00:26:00.931 --> 00:26:01.761 Shout out to Aaron. 00:26:02.231 --> 00:26:05.531 Jethro D. Jones: And, and, and lemme just say, let me just pump him up just a little bit. 00:26:05.531 --> 00:26:07.531 Aaron McKey, aaron mckey.com. 00:26:07.751 --> 00:26:08.491 Go check him out. 00:26:08.871 --> 00:26:16.491 Um, he, he is like, he said this to me, he said, Jethro, my goal is to be the best student you've ever had. 00:26:16.751 --> 00:26:22.931 So everything you tell me to do, I'm gonna go execute on and I'm gonna make sure, you know, and, uh. 00:26:24.016 --> 00:26:27.386 Like six months ago I set up a podcast for him. 00:26:27.846 --> 00:26:30.826 Um, so, 'cause he wanted to, to do one. 00:26:31.086 --> 00:26:34.426 Uh, and he texted me this morning and said, thanks for all your help. 00:26:34.526 --> 00:26:35.986 Here's, I finally did it. 00:26:36.046 --> 00:26:43.466 And so it's been a lot of time where he's been planning and working and finally he released it just yesterday. 00:26:43.766 --> 00:26:46.026 Um, future Proof University. 00:26:46.861 --> 00:26:49.521 Or future proof you is what you'll look for in our podcast. 00:26:49.741 --> 00:26:50.761 You should go check it out. 00:26:51.251 --> 00:26:56.681 Great stuff that he's doing and like talk about somebody who takes action and does the stuff. 00:26:57.021 --> 00:26:59.281 Uh, sorry to interrupt, but just had to say that. 00:26:59.311 --> 00:26:59.721 It's good 00:26:59.901 --> 00:27:01.311 Mike Caldwell: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:27:01.311 --> 00:27:03.111 I, I wasn't sure if I should say his name. 00:27:03.141 --> 00:27:03.481 Or not. 00:27:03.621 --> 00:27:04.441 I'm glad you did, because 00:27:04.591 --> 00:27:05.361 Jethro D. Jones: I'll shout him out. 00:27:05.791 --> 00:27:06.081 . Yeah. 00:27:06.141 --> 00:27:13.641 Mike Caldwell: But, but yeah, but I think it's, it's, it's that, it's like be curious, be willing to, to talk to people and learn. 00:27:13.641 --> 00:27:16.361 There's a lot of things you can learn from just about anybody. 00:27:16.941 --> 00:27:23.641 And, uh, I think it's just, just being willing to be curious and, uh, and always seeking to learn and gr and grow. 00:27:23.841 --> 00:27:27.141 I mean, I know that's maybe cliche, but I don't know. 00:27:27.581 --> 00:27:28.221 I, I believe that. 00:27:28.991 --> 00:27:30.391 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I, I think that's awesome. 00:27:30.811 --> 00:27:33.951 Um, so somebody's interested in, uh, getting a mentor. 00:27:34.451 --> 00:27:35.991 How do they connect with link leaders? 00:27:37.131 --> 00:27:37.941 Mike Caldwell: Yeah, absolutely. 00:27:38.011 --> 00:27:38.701 Easy, easy. 00:27:39.001 --> 00:27:45.911 Um, if you go to link leaders.com, um, one of the first buttons you'll see is, is start a free trial. 00:27:46.171 --> 00:27:46.591 And so. 00:27:47.731 --> 00:27:52.991 It will take two minutes or less to click that button and set up your profile. 00:27:53.531 --> 00:28:01.991 And within that you have seven days to go access any and all of our mentors and coaches that are on the site, um, at no cost. 00:28:02.651 --> 00:28:06.431 And, uh, I think that that will be proof in the pudding after that. 00:28:07.406 --> 00:28:12.986 Um, it's, it's pretty clear on, on how you can subscribe and, and, and continue access with any of our mentors. 00:28:13.286 --> 00:28:14.946 So, um, it's easy. 00:28:15.216 --> 00:28:17.906 Just, just go to the site and learn a little bit about it. 00:28:18.126 --> 00:28:21.666 But, uh, in, in one click you can access, right? 00:28:21.746 --> 00:28:24.426 I think there's 26 different mentors from all over the world right now, 00:28:25.341 --> 00:28:26.711 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, it, it's awesome. 00:28:27.061 --> 00:28:27.631 Good stuff. 00:28:28.251 --> 00:28:28.471 Um, 00:28:29.246 --> 00:28:30.906 Mike Caldwell: and Jetro Jones is one of them, 00:28:31.001 --> 00:28:31.511 Jethro D. Jones: let's go 00:28:31.526 --> 00:28:32.026 Mike Caldwell: I'm excited. 00:28:32.626 --> 00:28:33.146 . That's right. 00:28:33.216 --> 00:28:33.376 Jethro D. Jones: go. 00:28:33.486 --> 00:28:33.776 Yeah. 00:28:34.116 --> 00:28:40.416 And, uh, I, I would love to be one of those people that you reach out to for part of that free trial. 00:28:40.446 --> 00:28:41.376 That would be awesome. 00:28:41.796 --> 00:28:44.896 Uh, but there's a lot of other great people on there, so find someone that you need. 00:28:44.896 --> 00:28:45.976 That's the beauty of it. 00:28:46.116 --> 00:28:50.936 And you know, I, I talked to a lot of people and I'm always like, man, I wish I came up with this. 00:28:51.556 --> 00:28:52.696 Why didn't I think of this? 00:28:52.756 --> 00:28:54.016 And this is one of those ideas. 00:28:54.116 --> 00:29:02.391 So when you brought it to me, I was like, you know, I want to do what I can to . Support you in this and, and be there and, uh, be part of it. 00:29:02.451 --> 00:29:06.871 And it's a lot of fun and it's been a lot of fun watching you build it and make it happen. 00:29:07.131 --> 00:29:09.711 So, uh, that's pretty, pretty exciting too. 00:29:10.776 --> 00:29:13.876 Mike Caldwell: And I appreciate you and all the people that are, that are part of this. 00:29:14.116 --> 00:29:16.116 'cause it's certainly not a me thing, it's a we thing. 00:29:16.336 --> 00:29:18.636 Um, it wouldn't happen without great people. 00:29:18.776 --> 00:29:20.276 And, and you are one of 'em. 00:29:20.276 --> 00:29:21.196 And so I appreciate that. 00:29:21.816 --> 00:29:23.996 You know, and it, I, I love it 'cause it's so simple. 00:29:24.156 --> 00:29:25.556 I mean, it's just like so dumb simple. 00:29:25.626 --> 00:29:27.476 Like, you go and, and, and sign up. 00:29:27.936 --> 00:29:32.636 You go find the person, you, you're interested, learn a little bit about 'em, and then you just click. 00:29:33.076 --> 00:29:33.886 Like two buttons. 00:29:33.886 --> 00:29:38.646 Book a session, find their look at their schedule and when they're available and match that when you're, you're available. 00:29:39.106 --> 00:29:42.526 You click a, a time that you wanna meet with them and, and you're connected. 00:29:42.626 --> 00:29:44.406 And it's, it's all built in. 00:29:44.406 --> 00:29:46.766 There's no back and forth emails that you have to worry about. 00:29:47.426 --> 00:29:53.526 Um, and so it's a, it's a super simple way just to get connected with other people, which I'm super excited about. 00:29:54.326 --> 00:29:54.776 Jethro D. Jones: It's awesome. 00:29:55.236 --> 00:29:57.536 Uh, this was a great conversation, Mike. 00:29:57.536 --> 00:29:58.176 Thank you so much. 00:29:58.176 --> 00:29:58.616 Everybody. 00:29:58.616 --> 00:30:00.616 Go check out linked leaders.com. 00:30:00.886 --> 00:30:07.576 There's a link to that in the show notes@transformativeprinciple.org, and we'll see you next time on the Transformative Principle podcast.