1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:04,410 Learn how to build a better sign and print shop from a few 2 00:00:04,410 --> 00:00:09,060 crusty sign guys who've made more mistakes than they care to admit. 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,250 Conversations and advice on pricing, sales, marketing, 4 00:00:14,490 --> 00:00:17,100 workflow, growth, and more. 5 00:00:18,090 --> 00:00:24,240 Your listening to The Better Sign Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter Unis, 6 00:00:24,690 --> 00:00:27,600 Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie. 7 00:00:31,350 --> 00:00:35,370 Alright guys, welcome back to the Better Sign Shop podcast. 8 00:00:35,370 --> 00:00:38,190 Is it, this is still the podcast, I think it is. 9 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:40,470 Alright, is it I am your host, Brian Gillespie. 10 00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:44,580 I've got the signed burrito, Michael Riley with me. 11 00:00:44,850 --> 00:00:47,130 I was hoping that we'd forgotten about that by now, but 12 00:00:47,340 --> 00:00:49,020 we haven't forgotten the nicknames. 13 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,160 No guacamole. 14 00:00:50,190 --> 00:00:56,430 It's the elephant in the room and obviously it's been a minute since we've 15 00:00:56,460 --> 00:00:58,560 laid down any tracks in the studio. 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:00,210 How the hell are you, Michael? 17 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:01,860 I'm hanging in there. 18 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:04,830 I've survived 2024 fairly well. 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:05,370 Okay. 20 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,590 I don't remember, what was it? 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,700 I guess it was 2023 the last time I, uh, had this microphone 22 00:01:11,850 --> 00:01:12,780 shoved in my face here. 23 00:01:12,780 --> 00:01:15,480 So it's been an interesting year for me. 24 00:01:15,510 --> 00:01:19,320 I've kind of stepped away from the podcast and, uh, my business a 25 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:24,780 little bit slowed things down, um, trying to regroup some, but, uh, 26 00:01:24,810 --> 00:01:26,280 it's been a, been a year for sure. 27 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:26,760 How about you? 28 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:28,140 It's been a year. 29 00:01:28,260 --> 00:01:29,370 I think that's the, the theme. 30 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:31,320 Yeah. 31 00:01:31,325 --> 00:01:34,500 Lots of, lots of stuff work-wise, family-wise, obviously. 32 00:01:34,500 --> 00:01:39,450 Like we did, like, I, I don't know if it was out of necessity or each 33 00:01:39,450 --> 00:01:40,860 one of us just kind of got busy. 34 00:01:40,860 --> 00:01:43,890 Like we, we stepped away from the podcast for a bit and kudos 35 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:45,210 to the listeners out there. 36 00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:49,860 Like if my inbox is full of people that are like, Hey, are you guys, is this done? 37 00:01:49,860 --> 00:01:51,810 Or like, you guys gonna record some more episodes? 38 00:01:51,810 --> 00:01:52,830 Or like, what are you doing? 39 00:01:53,430 --> 00:01:57,480 I guess that's a good thing that people are like, you actually want more of our. 40 00:01:58,245 --> 00:01:59,355 Incessant rambling. 41 00:01:59,355 --> 00:02:01,815 Like that's, I'll take it as a compliment. 42 00:02:01,815 --> 00:02:02,505 Thank you guys. 43 00:02:02,925 --> 00:02:03,435 It's good to be back. 44 00:02:03,435 --> 00:02:03,885 I'll call it a win. 45 00:02:04,095 --> 00:02:04,750 Yeah, call it a win. 46 00:02:04,750 --> 00:02:05,085 Yeah, for sure. 47 00:02:05,145 --> 00:02:05,715 Yeah, for sure. 48 00:02:06,285 --> 00:02:08,715 Well, today we're gonna discuss ai. 49 00:02:09,495 --> 00:02:13,185 Uh, I've, like, internally, I've titled this the ominous AI episode, 50 00:02:13,185 --> 00:02:17,025 but I, I think we've got some, some interesting remarks on it. 51 00:02:17,025 --> 00:02:21,735 But like, tell me, like, are you still doing sign design? 52 00:02:21,735 --> 00:02:26,475 Like what are, what's the, what, what do you, aside from still working 53 00:02:26,475 --> 00:02:29,115 on your house, like what are you, what are you doing day to day? 54 00:02:29,625 --> 00:02:29,865 Yeah. 55 00:02:29,865 --> 00:02:32,055 No, I, I mean, I'm definitely still doing my sign design business. 56 00:02:32,055 --> 00:02:33,435 I've just scaled it back quite a bit. 57 00:02:33,435 --> 00:02:37,365 I've been dealing with, um, my, my parents live in Ohio and I live in Oregon. 58 00:02:37,365 --> 00:02:40,875 So, uh, my, my father has been battling cancer for the last 10 years, and in 59 00:02:40,875 --> 00:02:44,835 the last year he's really taken a, a dive and I've been traveling back 60 00:02:44,835 --> 00:02:48,704 and forth quite a bit and just my brain has been occupied with that. 61 00:02:48,704 --> 00:02:49,605 And, uh. 62 00:02:49,995 --> 00:02:55,665 Have, uh, just had to slow the business down for my own, you know, mental health 63 00:02:55,665 --> 00:02:58,875 and, and step away from the podcast here, a little bit, been spread too thin. 64 00:02:59,834 --> 00:03:02,475 I think everybody can probably relate to that at some point in time or another. 65 00:03:02,565 --> 00:03:07,875 Um, fortunately here in the last, uh, last month or so, we've finally 66 00:03:07,875 --> 00:03:10,364 been able to convince my parents that, uh, it's time for them to 67 00:03:10,364 --> 00:03:11,685 sell their house and move out here. 68 00:03:11,685 --> 00:03:15,165 So you mentioned the house project that we've been, you know, remodeling 69 00:03:15,165 --> 00:03:19,065 our money pit here for the last four years is the main project, is kind 70 00:03:19,065 --> 00:03:21,255 of, sort of winding down a little bit. 71 00:03:21,255 --> 00:03:24,674 And we're about to break ground on a, about a 500 square foot addition 72 00:03:24,674 --> 00:03:29,084 to our house and remodel our garage and, you know, adding some living 73 00:03:29,084 --> 00:03:30,495 space for my parents to move here. 74 00:03:30,495 --> 00:03:36,704 So, you know, I'm, I'm entering that phase of adulthood where now I'm gonna 75 00:03:36,704 --> 00:03:42,524 be the, the parent and I'm, I'm not sure how I, how I feel about it yet. 76 00:03:42,615 --> 00:03:43,095 I'm, I. 77 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,940 It's, uh, it's, it's, it's terrifying, dude. 78 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:49,140 Like, I'm really frightened right now. 79 00:03:51,150 --> 00:03:54,299 It's, uh, it's an interesting place to be and, and definitely this year is, 80 00:03:54,299 --> 00:03:59,310 um, like I said, it's with everything going on, I, I just kind of, um, let 81 00:03:59,310 --> 00:04:02,700 the business sort of, I don't wanna say set on the back burner, but just has, 82 00:04:02,700 --> 00:04:04,410 it hasn't had my, my full attention, 83 00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:07,980 which, well, the last time we talked you had like, more than more 84 00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:09,299 work than what you needed anyway. 85 00:04:09,345 --> 00:04:09,635 Yeah. 86 00:04:09,695 --> 00:04:14,040 So, yeah, I was, I was drowning in work and, and it was, uh, and you 87 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,740 know, it was right around the time when, when, uh, my, my father's health 88 00:04:16,740 --> 00:04:19,440 started to get, get bad again, and, and it just became so overwhelming. 89 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,480 I just kind had to say, you know, I'm gonna. 90 00:04:22,575 --> 00:04:26,984 I need to scale this back by like 50% here or a little bit, or I'm gonna, um, 91 00:04:27,044 --> 00:04:30,284 you know, end up in a, a ball in the corner in the fetal position shaking in 92 00:04:30,284 --> 00:04:31,575 a padded room for the rest of my life. 93 00:04:32,099 --> 00:04:36,705 So, you know, we're always harping on, uh, um, you know, mental health and, 94 00:04:36,705 --> 00:04:38,505 and then taking care of yourself first. 95 00:04:38,505 --> 00:04:41,594 And that's something that, you know, we still need to do that episode by the way. 96 00:04:42,255 --> 00:04:42,825 Ah, yeah. 97 00:04:43,304 --> 00:04:43,366 I'm down, man. 98 00:04:43,544 --> 00:04:43,905 Yeah. 99 00:04:43,905 --> 00:04:46,755 But this year's kind of been my mental health here and my year to sort of, uh, 100 00:04:47,505 --> 00:04:51,375 uh, you know, take a step back, breathe, uh, focus on family and what's more 101 00:04:51,375 --> 00:04:53,955 important than designing channel letters. 102 00:04:55,395 --> 00:04:58,455 But, you know, aside from that, yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm still who, you 103 00:04:58,455 --> 00:05:01,335 know, I've still got my, my little core handful of, of clients that 104 00:05:01,335 --> 00:05:05,474 I'm, I'm taking care of and, and, uh, uh, stand pretty busy with them. 105 00:05:05,594 --> 00:05:09,525 Um, and it's, you know, it's fun, you know, honestly stepping away from 106 00:05:09,914 --> 00:05:14,174 it and not, um, being so consumed by the sign industry and, and design 107 00:05:14,174 --> 00:05:16,125 and everything like that, and having a little bit of breathing space 108 00:05:16,125 --> 00:05:18,224 from it has definitely helped too. 109 00:05:18,224 --> 00:05:19,575 Like, I, I have more. 110 00:05:20,849 --> 00:05:24,900 More room to be creative and my, my brain is a little bit clearer and, and 111 00:05:24,930 --> 00:05:28,620 uh, I don't know what the word, right word there would be, but it's just when 112 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:31,620 you don't have it coming at you from every which direction and you're not so 113 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:35,640 overwhelmingly busy that you can actually, you know, focus on doing a good job and 114 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,469 putting out quality, you know, it's good. 115 00:05:37,469 --> 00:05:39,180 So, you know, I'm taking this year as a rebuilding year. 116 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:39,300 Great. 117 00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:39,780 Yeah. 118 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:40,140 Yeah. 119 00:05:40,169 --> 00:05:42,090 Which has been, which has been nice. 120 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,610 So it's definitely nice to be back on the podcast for sure. 121 00:05:44,610 --> 00:05:45,990 It's been been so long. 122 00:05:46,469 --> 00:05:49,349 You know, I've kind of just wanted to stick my head in the sand and pretend 123 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:52,830 like the sign industry doesn't exist here for a little bit, like we all do. 124 00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:55,255 Um, but it's, I'm excited to talk chop. 125 00:05:55,255 --> 00:05:55,615 It's still maintain 126 00:05:55,615 --> 00:05:56,414 it's a disease man. 127 00:05:56,414 --> 00:05:58,710 Like it's, you get it in the blood, you can't get it out. 128 00:05:58,770 --> 00:06:01,110 No, you can, you can take a break. 129 00:06:01,110 --> 00:06:03,120 Like maybe you go into remission or something. 130 00:06:03,419 --> 00:06:03,840 Exactly. 131 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:04,020 Yeah. 132 00:06:04,020 --> 00:06:05,010 That's the right word for it. 133 00:06:05,010 --> 00:06:07,230 It is, it's, it's totally remission. 134 00:06:07,230 --> 00:06:10,500 So, yeah, for the last year I just kind of was in semi remission, but. 135 00:06:14,039 --> 00:06:14,370 How about you? 136 00:06:14,370 --> 00:06:14,400 Oh 137 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:16,680 yeah. 138 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:21,539 I mean, I, you know, so like, better sign shop, like the community's still rocking. 139 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:25,169 Um, we've got how many, like, looking at it now, there's like 140 00:06:25,530 --> 00:06:27,510 close to 700 sign shop owners. 141 00:06:27,570 --> 00:06:31,979 And of course, like we verify everybody is an owner or management 142 00:06:31,985 --> 00:06:33,419 before we let them into the group. 143 00:06:33,870 --> 00:06:38,700 But you know, like you, we kind of took a backseat to life, you know, working 144 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:41,130 at a tech startup full time as well. 145 00:06:41,669 --> 00:06:47,520 Um, so, you know, the, the sign industry kind of became, uh, a side project, 146 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:53,640 which, you know, without that pressure to like make this the whole thing again, 147 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:54,870 I think you gained that perspective. 148 00:06:54,870 --> 00:06:54,930 Yeah. 149 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,539 So, you know, we like trying to really define what. 150 00:07:01,035 --> 00:07:06,075 Better sign shop is beyond like a community or like how to turn this 151 00:07:06,075 --> 00:07:11,055 into like a sustainable business that's not just, uh, supporting me, but also, 152 00:07:11,685 --> 00:07:16,665 uh, everybody else who's part of the circle was a challenge, you know? 153 00:07:16,670 --> 00:07:16,800 Yeah. 154 00:07:17,325 --> 00:07:20,895 We tried a lot of things, uh, that didn't necessarily work out. 155 00:07:20,925 --> 00:07:27,945 You know, we went very heavy, uh, into like this knowledge like process, SOP 156 00:07:27,945 --> 00:07:33,615 thing because like through the consulting work we were doing that's like, Hey, 157 00:07:33,615 --> 00:07:38,055 everybody needs these systems or they want to have all this stuff defined. 158 00:07:38,085 --> 00:07:41,325 And, uh, like we over indexed on that. 159 00:07:41,325 --> 00:07:47,235 And we also kind of got hit with what we're talking about today is the, the AI 160 00:07:47,235 --> 00:07:51,795 wave where like half of the stuff that we. 161 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:58,020 You know, spent tons of time generating, uh, now can be generated in about half an 162 00:07:58,020 --> 00:08:01,320 hour by somebody clacking into chat GPT. 163 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,260 So it was a learning year for you? 164 00:08:05,010 --> 00:08:05,729 Well, a learning year, 165 00:08:05,789 --> 00:08:06,179 yeah. 166 00:08:07,020 --> 00:08:10,260 What did you, uh, what did you learn about, um, well, about yourself 167 00:08:10,260 --> 00:08:13,380 and about the industry in the last year that you are surprised by? 168 00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:14,250 What caught you off guard? 169 00:08:15,330 --> 00:08:19,349 Uh, I, I, I think, ah, that's a great question. 170 00:08:19,349 --> 00:08:20,159 You put me on the spot. 171 00:08:20,159 --> 00:08:20,760 I wasn't prepared. 172 00:08:22,950 --> 00:08:24,719 Missed my deep philosophical questions. 173 00:08:24,719 --> 00:08:30,900 The best question, um, yeah, to throw in the, the Trump, 174 00:08:31,469 --> 00:08:32,309 you went there. 175 00:08:32,909 --> 00:08:33,569 I had to go there. 176 00:08:34,319 --> 00:08:36,150 Uh, yeah. 177 00:08:36,150 --> 00:08:39,569 I, I, again, like, I, I don't know how much I learned about the industry. 178 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:40,079 Um. 179 00:08:40,814 --> 00:08:44,954 I, the what you learn about yourself is, uh, you know, I, I, I think 180 00:08:44,954 --> 00:08:48,555 I've learned more of what I'm great at and what I'm not great at. 181 00:08:48,944 --> 00:08:52,935 That's obviously like a, a thing that changes with age. 182 00:08:53,474 --> 00:08:53,535 Yeah. 183 00:08:54,074 --> 00:08:57,734 Where, where you're just kind of forced to face reality of, of what you know, like, 184 00:08:57,734 --> 00:08:59,925 Hey, here's exactly what you're good at. 185 00:08:59,925 --> 00:09:02,477 Here's what you're not, what do you, what do you do? 186 00:09:02,505 --> 00:09:05,714 Like, you gotta, you gotta lean into what you're good at and just kind of like 187 00:09:05,714 --> 00:09:07,604 fade away from, from what you're not. 188 00:09:07,844 --> 00:09:13,125 So, yeah, for me that's, uh, you know, like solving specific problems, 189 00:09:13,125 --> 00:09:14,295 I've always been pretty good at that. 190 00:09:14,625 --> 00:09:19,094 Like, creating, creating problems to solve, like was not good at that. 191 00:09:19,094 --> 00:09:19,155 So, 192 00:09:21,734 --> 00:09:24,074 so hopefully we're, we're back on the right track. 193 00:09:24,074 --> 00:09:27,584 Obviously, like, I, I've missed chatting with you and Pete and, uh, 194 00:09:27,675 --> 00:09:28,844 Pete couldn't make it here today. 195 00:09:28,844 --> 00:09:33,704 But yeah, just getting back, I, I think having fun with it as well. 196 00:09:34,005 --> 00:09:37,214 I, I'm not sure if that's been a, like a thing for you as well, but like. 197 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:39,540 Yeah. 198 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,420 Um, yeah, yeah, for sure. 199 00:09:42,420 --> 00:09:45,090 And yeah, and for me, the last year, and I, I mentioned to this the other day, we 200 00:09:45,090 --> 00:09:50,340 were having a conversation, um, you know, in the last year I've, I've learned, you 201 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:56,130 know, by, by, by taking myself out of the, the whirlpool, I guess, and standing 202 00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:59,340 over here on the side just kinda watching everything swirl, I've learned that, you 203 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:04,079 know, really what, what drives my passion in the industry, what, what I really enjoy 204 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:09,480 and, and what I, you know, what, what, what talent and skill I, I, I actually 205 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:10,975 bring to the table and, and what I don't. 206 00:10:10,975 --> 00:10:14,069 And, you know, and more importantly, I think what I, what I don't enjoy, what 207 00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:16,980 I don't like, what I don't bring to the table and what I should, you know, 208 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:21,900 like you said, as a, as a, as an adult, in theory, an adult, anyway, I don't 209 00:10:21,900 --> 00:10:23,310 know, sometimes I still question that. 210 00:10:23,340 --> 00:10:23,430 I 211 00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:23,880 mean, I'm a 212 00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:26,340 43-year-old man child in a lot of ways. 213 00:10:26,670 --> 00:10:27,810 I, yeah. 214 00:10:27,810 --> 00:10:28,590 You know, it, it, 215 00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:32,880 men are stuck at 17, like humor wise, or maybe even like 13. 216 00:10:33,060 --> 00:10:34,111 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 217 00:10:34,116 --> 00:10:34,770 We'll go on record. 218 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:35,610 Yeah. 219 00:10:35,610 --> 00:10:36,000 Totally. 220 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,150 Yeah. 221 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:38,760 You should see, like my, my best friend from high school and I were 222 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,319 on Instagram all day every day. 223 00:10:40,319 --> 00:10:43,260 Just constantly like sending each other fart memes back and forth. 224 00:10:43,485 --> 00:10:46,680 Like, never grow up men. 225 00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:50,220 Hold onto your youth as long as you can. 226 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:50,460 Yeah. 227 00:10:50,970 --> 00:10:55,020 Um, but yeah, so, you know, I, I kind, kind of like trying to dip my 228 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:58,680 toe back into the, like I said, I didn't, I didn't stop or step away 229 00:10:58,680 --> 00:10:59,819 entirely or anything like that. 230 00:10:59,819 --> 00:11:03,480 I just kind of turned it, I had it cranked up to 11 and I turned 231 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,319 it down to like, there, you know, turned out at like four and, um. 232 00:11:07,650 --> 00:11:11,730 Now I'm just, you know, maybe slowly turning it back up until I get to a 233 00:11:11,730 --> 00:11:15,810 point, you know, I'm, I'm not just 'cause it goes up to 11, um, doesn't mean I 234 00:11:15,810 --> 00:11:17,370 have to crank it up all the way to 11. 235 00:11:17,370 --> 00:11:19,170 And that's the kinda the lesson I'm trying to learn here. 236 00:11:19,170 --> 00:11:23,310 And, um, you know, I've, I've learned that I've always had a nagging suspicion 237 00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:28,980 that I really hate business, which, you know, so admittedly sounds really 238 00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:30,810 weird to say on a business podcast. 239 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,660 Um, but I don't, I don't know. 240 00:11:33,689 --> 00:11:35,760 I don't, I just, I don't know. 241 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,060 It, it, uh, it's something that I just don't, I don't enjoy. 242 00:11:39,060 --> 00:11:42,449 When I was younger, the hustle, I loved, you know, I loved the, 243 00:11:42,449 --> 00:11:47,069 uh, the go get 'em, you know, and grind until you drop kind of. 244 00:11:47,490 --> 00:11:50,220 You know that when you're 20 in your twenties and you got energy 245 00:11:50,220 --> 00:11:54,030 and you don't have arthritis in your knees, like it's easy and it's fun. 246 00:11:54,330 --> 00:11:56,640 Um, true story. 247 00:11:57,900 --> 00:11:58,200 Indeed. 248 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:58,201 Indeed. 249 00:11:58,350 --> 00:11:58,620 Yeah. 250 00:11:58,620 --> 00:12:02,370 And when and when you live in Oregon where it rains half the year, you believe me. 251 00:12:02,370 --> 00:12:03,750 It's fun when you have arthritis. 252 00:12:04,260 --> 00:12:04,800 Um, 253 00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:08,115 is it true what my grandmother says, like a hundred percent Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 254 00:12:08,115 --> 00:12:09,810 Feel like right before it rains. 255 00:12:09,945 --> 00:12:10,530 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 256 00:12:10,770 --> 00:12:11,070 Yeah. 257 00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:16,170 I, um, I make the old man groaning noises when I stand up out of a chair a lot 258 00:12:16,170 --> 00:12:20,040 more frequently when it's damp and humid out when, than when it's dry, for sure. 259 00:12:20,130 --> 00:12:21,060 Um, yeah. 260 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:21,569 Yeah. 261 00:12:21,569 --> 00:12:24,900 It's, that's a, that's a very real thing for sure. 262 00:12:25,694 --> 00:12:29,505 But yeah, I've just, you know, I've learned that I, I'm a creative person. 263 00:12:29,505 --> 00:12:31,125 I'm not a, I'm not a numbers person. 264 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:35,265 I'm not a, you know, I know the stuff, I understand the stuff. 265 00:12:35,265 --> 00:12:37,244 I can do it if you put a gun in my head, but I just don't want to anymore. 266 00:12:37,244 --> 00:12:41,114 I don't wanna, uh, the business stuff is just, it's like, I dunno, 267 00:12:41,114 --> 00:12:42,194 I'm not a competitive person. 268 00:12:42,224 --> 00:12:44,925 Something I've known about myself for a long time is I, I'm not 269 00:12:44,925 --> 00:12:45,795 really a competitive person. 270 00:12:45,795 --> 00:12:47,025 That's why I'm not a huge sports fan. 271 00:12:47,025 --> 00:12:49,155 Like, it's just kind of, eh, cool, whatever. 272 00:12:49,454 --> 00:12:52,574 And I think if you don't have that competitive drive, um, business is 273 00:12:52,574 --> 00:12:56,744 just kind of like, you know, it's like trying to watch a, a baseball 274 00:12:56,744 --> 00:12:57,915 game when you're not a baseball fan. 275 00:12:58,099 --> 00:12:59,685 It's like, where's the hot dogs? 276 00:12:59,925 --> 00:13:00,344 You know? 277 00:13:00,915 --> 00:13:07,875 So I've learned that about myself and, you know, trying to now avoid the 278 00:13:07,875 --> 00:13:09,765 business world as much as I possibly can. 279 00:13:09,915 --> 00:13:12,314 Uh, you know, moving forward and, and focus on the creative side 280 00:13:12,314 --> 00:13:13,635 of things and hopefully that, um. 281 00:13:14,415 --> 00:13:17,715 That helps to sidestep some, some burnout that I was experiencing before. 282 00:13:17,715 --> 00:13:21,105 If I'm, I'm not so mired in the, the business side of signs and I'm just only 283 00:13:21,105 --> 00:13:25,155 focusing on the, the creative side of it, which is what I got into it in the first 284 00:13:25,155 --> 00:13:27,435 place for, you know, I'm a, I'm a maker. 285 00:13:27,495 --> 00:13:28,485 I like to make cool shit. 286 00:13:28,545 --> 00:13:29,475 That's all I care about. 287 00:13:30,194 --> 00:13:32,025 Philosophy Hour with Mike 288 00:13:32,204 --> 00:13:33,015 and we're back. 289 00:13:33,225 --> 00:13:36,975 Uh, it wouldn't be a podcast episode without any technical issues. 290 00:13:37,875 --> 00:13:38,834 Uh, yeah. 291 00:13:38,834 --> 00:13:45,465 For whatever reason my mic messed up and now I'm back, but totally missed some of 292 00:13:45,465 --> 00:13:50,835 what you were saying there, but Philosophy Hour with Mike, is that what it was or, 293 00:13:51,255 --> 00:13:51,405 yeah. 294 00:13:51,405 --> 00:13:52,425 Philosophy Hour with Mike. 295 00:13:52,425 --> 00:13:53,655 I, yeah, just was on my, 296 00:13:54,525 --> 00:13:54,735 yeah. 297 00:13:55,005 --> 00:13:55,245 Love it. 298 00:13:55,305 --> 00:13:57,180 Did it, did it record anything I just said or 299 00:13:57,180 --> 00:13:58,395 just It did, yeah. 300 00:13:58,395 --> 00:13:58,964 Yeah, we're good. 301 00:13:59,444 --> 00:14:02,355 Like, it'll, it recorded that it just didn't hear me. 302 00:14:02,355 --> 00:14:06,045 So like on the video track you'll see me like, yeah. 303 00:14:06,765 --> 00:14:08,204 Like Wayne's World going through the drive-through. 304 00:14:10,449 --> 00:14:10,939 Amazing. 305 00:14:11,339 --> 00:14:13,335 I like to bring this back to business. 306 00:14:13,890 --> 00:14:15,719 I think that's an important lesson to learn, right? 307 00:14:15,719 --> 00:14:20,520 Like, hey, if you're not the manager type and you find yourself as the 308 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,630 owner and de facto manager in the sign shop, hey, what do you do? 309 00:14:25,319 --> 00:14:30,989 Maybe you should not, uh, double down and, you know, necessarily believe that you 310 00:14:30,989 --> 00:14:33,540 have to develop those management skills, 311 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:34,020 right? 312 00:14:34,439 --> 00:14:39,989 We, I mean, we all know, we both know quite a few people in the industry 313 00:14:39,989 --> 00:14:41,670 that shouldn't be running the business. 314 00:14:41,670 --> 00:14:43,650 Like, you know, and that's not an insult to those people. 315 00:14:43,650 --> 00:14:47,640 It's just they need to recognize that and, and get outta their own way and, 316 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,400 and let people do what they're good at. 317 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,260 And, and that includes yourself too. 318 00:14:52,290 --> 00:14:55,709 You should do what you're good at, not what you feel like you have to do. 319 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,069 You know, I mean, you could make an argument that if you don't 320 00:14:59,069 --> 00:15:00,750 like business, you probably shouldn't be a business owner. 321 00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:01,709 Um. 322 00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:04,260 But 323 00:15:05,220 --> 00:15:07,470 hey, hey. 324 00:15:07,475 --> 00:15:07,885 Not to judge. 325 00:15:08,064 --> 00:15:08,685 Not here to judge. 326 00:15:08,685 --> 00:15:08,819 Not here to judge. 327 00:15:09,150 --> 00:15:09,510 That's true. 328 00:15:10,170 --> 00:15:10,350 Mm-hmm. 329 00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:10,680 Well, 330 00:15:11,790 --> 00:15:14,819 well, let's dive into the ominous tone. 331 00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:20,730 Uh, I, I guess I called it ominous because like, I, like on Netflix now, like once 332 00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:24,000 you go like subtitle, you don't go back. 333 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,340 I'm not sure if you guys do that at home. 334 00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:30,480 Like Ashley, like my wife and I, like anything that we watch on 335 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,510 Netflix or whatever, it always has subtitles, even if it's in English. 336 00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:36,060 And like after a while you, like, you can't watch anything 337 00:15:36,060 --> 00:15:37,110 without the subtitles. 338 00:15:37,290 --> 00:15:37,950 I don't know why 339 00:15:38,730 --> 00:15:42,450 I, you know, I, I can't do like YouTube videos without subtitles on, like, I have 340 00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:45,444 to have the subtitles on YouTube videos or, or Instagram videos if there're, 341 00:15:45,465 --> 00:15:49,140 if there's like people talking, I, I have to have that, but I, I haven't. 342 00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:52,800 I haven't gotten to that with AR or with, um, with Netflix yet. 343 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:53,310 So, 344 00:15:53,370 --> 00:15:56,520 well, like my favorite part is like the ominous music comes on and 345 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,530 it just like parentheses ominous. 346 00:15:58,604 --> 00:15:59,096 Ominous music. 347 00:16:00,365 --> 00:16:00,655 Yeah. 348 00:16:01,709 --> 00:16:02,099 Yeah. 349 00:16:02,099 --> 00:16:04,199 There, there's a couple of Netflix shows actually, that I watch that 350 00:16:04,199 --> 00:16:05,640 are, are in foreign languages. 351 00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:08,670 Um, and so I have the, you know, the English subtitles on and some, some 352 00:16:08,694 --> 00:16:12,420 of the, the translations and, and just, just like the, the narration 353 00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:14,040 like that are, it's just hilarious. 354 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:14,911 I, I love it when they do that. 355 00:16:14,915 --> 00:16:15,569 Oh, I love it, man. 356 00:16:15,569 --> 00:16:15,689 Yeah. 357 00:16:15,689 --> 00:16:16,680 It's, it's comedy gold. 358 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:17,040 Yeah. 359 00:16:18,209 --> 00:16:18,540 All right. 360 00:16:19,020 --> 00:16:19,375 So ai, 361 00:16:20,130 --> 00:16:20,459 yeah. 362 00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:23,189 Let's talk about what scares us. 363 00:16:24,359 --> 00:16:24,660 Yeah. 364 00:16:24,665 --> 00:16:26,640 I, I think we, we gotta kick this off. 365 00:16:26,699 --> 00:16:30,900 He's like personal, spicy take on ai. 366 00:16:31,290 --> 00:16:31,770 Yes. 367 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:32,609 You go. 368 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,420 I, um, how do I word this? 369 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,849 I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I. 370 00:16:43,230 --> 00:16:46,470 Horrifically terrified of it, and also like really excited about it. 371 00:16:46,470 --> 00:16:49,200 At the same time, it's very like, conflicting and confusing. 372 00:16:49,290 --> 00:16:50,760 Uh, I feel very weird inside. 373 00:16:51,510 --> 00:16:56,910 It's, I, I, I, I see it as potentially like one of the greatest tools 374 00:16:56,910 --> 00:17:02,040 that has ever, you know, been given to humanity on one hand, or been 375 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,255 created by humanity on one hand. 376 00:17:03,255 --> 00:17:06,960 But it also, you know, obviously there's massive potential risks involved in it 377 00:17:06,990 --> 00:17:11,940 that I think are very real, that aren't, you know, that aren't alarmist when 378 00:17:11,940 --> 00:17:17,430 you, when you really look at the speed at which it's, you know, progressing. 379 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:23,250 Um, so spicy take, I, I think it's, I think it's here to stay and I 380 00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:28,620 think if we don't embrace it and learn it and learn to love it, it 381 00:17:28,620 --> 00:17:31,500 will, um, probably ruin our lives. 382 00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:32,190 I don't know. 383 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:33,571 I don't know. 384 00:17:33,571 --> 00:17:33,990 I don't, I don't know. 385 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,340 I don't, is that even spicy or is it, 386 00:17:36,330 --> 00:17:39,295 I I, I, I feel like that is the. 387 00:17:40,665 --> 00:17:41,715 Middle of the road. 388 00:17:42,405 --> 00:17:42,825 Yeah. 389 00:17:42,825 --> 00:17:44,895 Like take, I dunno what else to say about it, you know? 390 00:17:45,284 --> 00:17:46,305 Well, it's your take though. 391 00:17:46,305 --> 00:17:55,215 I, I honestly like, the take that I had is excited but scared as a so same take. 392 00:17:55,635 --> 00:17:56,200 Um, get your own material, 393 00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:56,520 man. 394 00:17:56,950 --> 00:17:57,840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 395 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:05,415 I mean it to me, like, I, I'm using AI every day now and it, like, I've 396 00:18:05,415 --> 00:18:08,985 made it a point to, I don't know why I feel like I need to keep up with it 397 00:18:08,985 --> 00:18:13,274 all, but, well, it probably be 'cause I'm in the tech industry full time. 398 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:13,485 Right, right. 399 00:18:13,485 --> 00:18:18,254 But, but it's just trying to keep up with like the, the changes that are happening 400 00:18:18,254 --> 00:18:19,545 like week over week with it Right. 401 00:18:19,545 --> 00:18:20,805 Is like mind blowing. 402 00:18:21,315 --> 00:18:28,905 So like for comparison, spring of 2023, uh, this is like April May-ish, 403 00:18:28,905 --> 00:18:32,685 we ran a survey at Better Sign Shop. 404 00:18:32,685 --> 00:18:36,495 Yeah, we had like 122 responses. 405 00:18:36,495 --> 00:18:37,425 I'm looking at it right now. 406 00:18:38,475 --> 00:18:43,034 The first question was like, Hey, have you tried AI tools like Chat, GPT 407 00:18:43,335 --> 00:18:49,004 Dali, which is the image generation or mid journey, like 30% had tried them. 408 00:18:49,455 --> 00:18:52,575 Only 11% would say I use them often. 409 00:18:53,145 --> 00:18:53,235 Mm-hmm. 410 00:18:53,475 --> 00:18:58,514 Uh, that's what like a year and a half ago, it like fast forwarded Now, you 411 00:18:58,514 --> 00:19:01,905 know, like I, I see on like all the sign industry forums or groups, like, 412 00:19:01,905 --> 00:19:07,215 somebody's like, Hey, do you have a, a, a template for like, I'm hiring somebody. 413 00:19:07,215 --> 00:19:08,925 And everybody's like, just chat. 414 00:19:08,925 --> 00:19:09,465 GPT, it. 415 00:19:09,915 --> 00:19:10,155 Right. 416 00:19:10,275 --> 00:19:10,815 Um, 417 00:19:13,635 --> 00:19:18,195 like un unfortunately for the product that we were building, uh, we were like 418 00:19:18,645 --> 00:19:23,445 most of the way through that and then, uh, chat, GPT caught up with about everything. 419 00:19:23,505 --> 00:19:25,300 But I, how many now 420 00:19:25,635 --> 00:19:27,525 I wonder how many other people were in that same boat as you? 421 00:19:27,525 --> 00:19:28,905 Sorry, just that popped into my head. 422 00:19:29,595 --> 00:19:29,715 Oh, yeah. 423 00:19:29,715 --> 00:19:31,905 I, I can't imagine how many other people were in the middle of developing 424 00:19:31,905 --> 00:19:34,605 something, some product or service or something like that, that just were just 425 00:19:34,605 --> 00:19:37,095 like, well, shit, like now what do I do? 426 00:19:37,095 --> 00:19:37,785 You know, like, what do 427 00:19:37,785 --> 00:19:38,355 you do with this? 428 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:39,180 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 429 00:19:39,435 --> 00:19:39,615 Yeah. 430 00:19:39,615 --> 00:19:41,340 I think you have to like lean into it, but mm-hmm. 431 00:19:41,425 --> 00:19:46,485 Like, for me, on, on a spicy level, like I, I think this is the thing 432 00:19:46,485 --> 00:19:51,915 is gonna get outrageous a lot faster than what we think it is. 433 00:19:52,515 --> 00:19:53,055 Oh fuck. 434 00:19:53,055 --> 00:19:53,835 It already is. 435 00:19:53,835 --> 00:19:54,615 Yeah, absolutely. 436 00:19:54,615 --> 00:19:57,165 Like a year and a half ago when you did that poll, I don't think. 437 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,350 Anybody would've ever thought that a year and a half later, a, it would 438 00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:04,350 have advanced as far as it has, as quickly as it has, or b, it would be as 439 00:20:04,350 --> 00:20:06,150 ubiquitous in our lives as it already is. 440 00:20:06,745 --> 00:20:11,130 I, I mean, that's crazy in such a short amount of time, and that's why 441 00:20:11,130 --> 00:20:16,080 I'm so afraid of it is, is because it's, it's advancing so quickly. 442 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,080 I mean, it, it, it is, you know, it's one of those things that, 443 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,650 like the, the Terminator isn't really that far fetched anymore. 444 00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:28,320 Like it could become a really, you know, not, not to go down the 445 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,230 political rabbit hole, but I mean, you know, we, it's so good now that 446 00:20:31,230 --> 00:20:35,580 you can't tell fact from fiction, you know, a real photo from a fake photo. 447 00:20:36,660 --> 00:20:39,120 And that's happened in the span of six months ago. 448 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,870 You could tell that's AI generated, or AI wrote that, and now you can't. 449 00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:43,230 Right. 450 00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:46,170 So how do we, you know, how do we control that? 451 00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:48,480 Do we wanna save the doom and gloom for the end? 452 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:48,870 I don't, 453 00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:49,290 prob 454 00:20:50,250 --> 00:20:52,800 I don't, I don't know how to like structure this one other than just to 455 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,810 like dive into it, but I know right? 456 00:20:54,810 --> 00:20:56,129 Like go into the deep end maybe. 457 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:57,060 Yeah. 458 00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:58,860 Maybe let's like, okay, I'll table that. 459 00:20:58,860 --> 00:21:01,980 Are you using any of the Yeah, yeah, we'll save that for the end. 460 00:21:02,129 --> 00:21:05,040 Like are you, are, what are you using on a daily basis now? 461 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,800 Like, are you using Chad, DPT, like any of these tools? 462 00:21:08,250 --> 00:21:15,450 So in my, in my work, I use chat DPT occasionally, um, being, you know, being 463 00:21:15,450 --> 00:21:19,200 a sign designer, it, it's not gonna generate for the most part much that 464 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,540 I can use outside of idea generation. 465 00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:26,010 And, um, I, I, I definitely used it quite a bit, um, for certain things, 466 00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:29,910 like I need a really specific, you know, watercolor style painting of, 467 00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:34,590 you know, a good example, I, I had to do a, um, a, a sandblasted sign, like 468 00:21:34,590 --> 00:21:38,460 a fancy sandblasted gold leaf sign for somebody's like fancy, you know, 469 00:21:38,460 --> 00:21:39,870 vacation house out in the mountains. 470 00:21:39,870 --> 00:21:43,800 And, um, they wanted a, a, a, a painting of a moose and a. 471 00:21:44,370 --> 00:21:47,070 Mountain stream with the mountains behind and you can't 472 00:21:47,070 --> 00:21:47,910 find something that specific. 473 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:50,100 You can't find that on any stock site and. 474 00:21:51,495 --> 00:21:55,695 The, like most cases, the budget isn't there to hire a, a, you know, an 475 00:21:55,695 --> 00:21:57,375 actual painter or an artist to paint. 476 00:21:57,375 --> 00:21:59,145 That is what, and I, you know, and that sucks. 477 00:21:59,145 --> 00:22:01,185 And you hate to say that out loud, like, you know, we can't 478 00:22:01,185 --> 00:22:02,385 actually pay an artist to do this. 479 00:22:02,385 --> 00:22:05,385 But that's the reality, is you, you can't pay an artist to do that. 480 00:22:05,385 --> 00:22:06,105 In this particular case. 481 00:22:06,105 --> 00:22:07,185 That's, that's, you know, we've all 482 00:22:07,185 --> 00:22:09,795 dealt with that on like, personal projects, so like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 483 00:22:09,795 --> 00:22:10,185 Budgets 484 00:22:10,185 --> 00:22:10,815 are very real. 485 00:22:10,815 --> 00:22:13,095 Like, you know, to pretend like we all don't have budgets, whether we're 486 00:22:13,095 --> 00:22:14,685 in business or personal, is stupid. 487 00:22:14,685 --> 00:22:17,325 Like, everybody's got a budget and you gotta find a way to work within it. 488 00:22:17,685 --> 00:22:21,675 So, you know, like, uh, chat, GPT created a absolutely stunning, 489 00:22:21,675 --> 00:22:25,035 unbelievable painting that I was able to drop right into the sign. 490 00:22:25,035 --> 00:22:25,635 Customer loved it. 491 00:22:25,635 --> 00:22:29,985 They got a sign that looks phenomenal, that, that met their needs, and then 492 00:22:29,985 --> 00:22:31,995 some that was well within their budget. 493 00:22:32,415 --> 00:22:37,455 And, you know, without chat GPT, we would've had to cut some sort of corner. 494 00:22:37,455 --> 00:22:41,865 We would've had to use clip art or some image that wasn't quite right, or we 495 00:22:41,865 --> 00:22:44,475 would've had to go without the, you know, that graphic on it all together. 496 00:22:44,475 --> 00:22:48,525 So it created a solution for a customer that gave them a beautiful sign without. 497 00:22:48,825 --> 00:22:50,355 An unaffordable budget, you know? 498 00:22:50,415 --> 00:22:53,985 But the flip side of that is, is to manage the value of an actual 499 00:22:53,985 --> 00:22:58,155 painter's work when, you know, especially at a commercial level. 500 00:22:58,275 --> 00:23:02,685 Um, like why would you hire a painter to paint that scene when I can have chat GPT 501 00:23:02,685 --> 00:23:04,275 do it for me in five minutes for free? 502 00:23:04,275 --> 00:23:04,575 Right. 503 00:23:05,145 --> 00:23:08,265 That's the existential threat going back down the dark rabbit hole. 504 00:23:08,265 --> 00:23:08,595 I'm sorry. 505 00:23:08,715 --> 00:23:09,390 No, I mean, no. 506 00:23:10,875 --> 00:23:12,825 You know, maybe we just say like, address it head on. 507 00:23:12,825 --> 00:23:13,065 Right. 508 00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:13,905 I, I don't know how not 509 00:23:13,905 --> 00:23:14,265 to like it. 510 00:23:14,385 --> 00:23:14,685 Like it's, 511 00:23:15,105 --> 00:23:17,625 this is like a, this is the, the crux, right? 512 00:23:18,105 --> 00:23:22,605 Because like I, I've shared with you some of the experiments I've done. 513 00:23:23,295 --> 00:23:23,505 Mm-hmm. 514 00:23:23,775 --> 00:23:28,485 And like to me, like where it's gone and, and I don't know, maybe I'll 515 00:23:28,485 --> 00:23:32,925 share my screen and just like to show like those of you who are actually 516 00:23:32,925 --> 00:23:36,200 watching the video on YouTube can actually see some of this stuff and, 517 00:23:36,205 --> 00:23:38,325 and what's possible right now today. 518 00:23:38,325 --> 00:23:42,105 And if it doesn't like somewhat scare you, I would be surprised. 519 00:23:42,615 --> 00:23:45,135 But, you know, as a creative industry like. 520 00:23:45,765 --> 00:23:48,885 You know, especially for somebody like you and, you know, we've had Dan 521 00:23:48,885 --> 00:23:54,765 Antonelli and like, there's the sign industry is, is nothing but creativity. 522 00:23:54,795 --> 00:23:58,095 Like, like put into like a commercial setting. 523 00:23:58,095 --> 00:23:58,425 Right? 524 00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:58,610 Right. 525 00:23:58,785 --> 00:24:00,105 Like that's, that's what it is. 526 00:24:00,165 --> 00:24:02,625 Um, more than any other medium, I think. 527 00:24:02,625 --> 00:24:06,525 Because, you know, if you look at like printing, like commercial printing 528 00:24:06,525 --> 00:24:10,455 on paper, like you got a format like, Hey, I've gotta print a design. 529 00:24:10,455 --> 00:24:12,015 It's gotta go on this piece of paper. 530 00:24:12,135 --> 00:24:16,815 Okay, yes, I've got X, Y, and z, you know, I can do whatever I want within the box. 531 00:24:17,265 --> 00:24:22,185 Or like a t-shirt, you're, you're putting a graphic on a t-shirt or piece 532 00:24:22,185 --> 00:24:24,495 of clothing or, or bag or whatever. 533 00:24:25,005 --> 00:24:25,815 The sign industry. 534 00:24:25,815 --> 00:24:29,805 And I guess what always drew me to it initially was like 535 00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:31,065 you got unlimited options. 536 00:24:31,125 --> 00:24:31,215 Mm-hmm. 537 00:24:31,455 --> 00:24:35,805 I mean, you know, somebody, you know, if, if the budget's $150, you probably 538 00:24:35,805 --> 00:24:37,305 stuck with like a banner or something. 539 00:24:37,305 --> 00:24:42,405 But, you know, given, given a problem of, you know, hey, I need to let 540 00:24:42,405 --> 00:24:44,325 people know that this business exists. 541 00:24:44,820 --> 00:24:48,000 There's an infinite number of solutions that you could create. 542 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:48,510 Right? 543 00:24:49,050 --> 00:24:53,790 It's the same thing I love about it too, is it's, it's, it's using your creative 544 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:55,320 talents to solve a real world problem. 545 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,110 And that's, I mean, that's like the most rewarding thing you can 546 00:24:58,110 --> 00:24:59,699 do as a creative person, right? 547 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:01,169 Yeah, totally. 548 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:10,139 But like he, all these AI LLMs or, you know, even if we take like the, the image 549 00:25:10,139 --> 00:25:16,169 generation models, like it's all trained on stuff that has been put out into the 550 00:25:16,169 --> 00:25:21,780 world by folks like you or other designers and photographers and everything, and 551 00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:27,899 it's like sucked all this stuff up and now it spits out, you know, I, I won't 552 00:25:27,899 --> 00:25:32,129 say variations of that, but you know, like I, it filled to some extent, like 553 00:25:32,129 --> 00:25:36,840 it sucked up that creative juice and is now like using that and, you know, 554 00:25:36,929 --> 00:25:38,459 I don't think anybody got paid for it. 555 00:25:38,459 --> 00:25:38,520 So. 556 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:39,870 Yeah. 557 00:25:39,870 --> 00:25:40,169 Yeah. 558 00:25:40,169 --> 00:25:40,475 And I mean, if you. 559 00:25:41,970 --> 00:25:42,389 Follow. 560 00:25:42,419 --> 00:25:47,820 I mean, you, the, the Adobe scandal here of late where Adobe announced 561 00:25:47,820 --> 00:25:50,610 that they're using anything that people use in their, you know, generative 562 00:25:50,610 --> 00:25:54,330 AI tools, um, you know, on the backend train their generative ai. 563 00:25:54,330 --> 00:25:58,139 I mean, you know, they're basically using what you create in their products 564 00:25:58,139 --> 00:26:03,060 to train their own ai, you know, and that's, there's so many, you know, 565 00:26:03,060 --> 00:26:05,700 ethical gray areas there with it too. 566 00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:11,340 But, so yeah, I mean, I, I think that it's a, um, phenomenal tool in the right 567 00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:12,629 hands if you look at it the right way. 568 00:26:12,629 --> 00:26:18,210 But I, I mean, it definitely has the potential to, I don't know if it has the 569 00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:21,659 potential to totally destroy creativity, but it definitely has the potential to do 570 00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:27,690 serious value or to serious damage to the value of creativity, I think, you know, or 571 00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:30,780 like to the value of what you do, like design, right? 572 00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:30,960 Like 573 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,460 to some degree or another. 574 00:26:32,460 --> 00:26:35,639 I mean, you know, like you said, I, I understanding the way it functions, 575 00:26:35,639 --> 00:26:38,429 the way it works and creates those images, which it's not creating it. 576 00:26:38,969 --> 00:26:40,169 Out of thin air from scratch. 577 00:26:40,169 --> 00:26:44,820 Like, I think the name implies kind of where like, you know, this is a computer 578 00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:46,080 that's just painting this for you. 579 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,219 You know, it's, it's not, it's, it's in a way, it's kind of building a 580 00:26:50,219 --> 00:26:54,000 composite of millions and millions of images, not, not creating from scratch, 581 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,780 if you wanna look at it that way. 582 00:26:55,409 --> 00:27:00,060 So it's, it's, I don't think it's ever gonna be able to fully replace 583 00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:05,580 designers because it, it will never have the human eye, right? 584 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:09,629 Like, it can't look at something subjectively like a designer can. 585 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,570 And I think that's really the, the, the key thing there that, 586 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,360 that everybody needs to be aware of and, and, and keep in the front of 587 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:16,709 their mind is it isn't subjective. 588 00:27:16,709 --> 00:27:17,820 It's totally objective. 589 00:27:18,449 --> 00:27:21,090 It's gonna do what you tell it to do and what it's trained on and, 590 00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:23,070 and what source imagery it finds. 591 00:27:23,729 --> 00:27:25,080 But it can't look at that. 592 00:27:25,665 --> 00:27:27,975 And step back and say, that looks awesome, or that looks like shit. 593 00:27:27,975 --> 00:27:28,185 Right? 594 00:27:28,185 --> 00:27:30,705 Like it doesn't, that's what it, that's what it'll never be able to do. 595 00:27:30,705 --> 00:27:34,755 And that's where the human factor theoretically has to remain, is the taste. 596 00:27:34,755 --> 00:27:35,025 Yeah. 597 00:27:35,025 --> 00:27:36,405 I guess, if you wanna put it that way. 598 00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:36,795 Right. 599 00:27:37,425 --> 00:27:43,245 So I, I think it'll be, I, I won't say a cold day in hell because I'll 600 00:27:43,245 --> 00:27:47,655 probably have to eat those words, but I think it'll be, I think it'll be a, 601 00:27:48,285 --> 00:27:52,845 a long, I, I don't think it'll ever fully replace designers or artists, 602 00:27:52,845 --> 00:27:56,805 at least at a, um, elite level. 603 00:27:56,955 --> 00:28:00,585 Oh God, I don't, that sounds really conceited to see at a. 604 00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:04,230 At a, at a, at a, at a high professional level right now, it's 605 00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:09,630 already way better at design than a entry level amateur designer. 606 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,560 And it's way better at design, frankly, than a lot of, you know, 607 00:28:13,620 --> 00:28:16,950 designs that sign shops and print shops and, you know, are, are putting 608 00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:18,060 out there on the, on the street. 609 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:21,390 So I think, you know, it has the potential to actually improve the 610 00:28:21,390 --> 00:28:23,010 visual landscape if it's used right. 611 00:28:23,490 --> 00:28:28,410 Um, but I don't think it's ever going to replace a seasoned professional, you 612 00:28:28,410 --> 00:28:31,860 know, true creative designer, right? 613 00:28:31,860 --> 00:28:36,195 Like I, I I, I feel like the Dan Antonelli's and, and you know, of, 614 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:41,010 of the world, um, are never gonna be really, feel really threatened by it. 615 00:28:41,010 --> 00:28:43,020 But those, you know, those are the same people that aren't threatened by, 616 00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:47,010 you know, a competitor opening up shop next door either because they know the 617 00:28:47,010 --> 00:28:52,290 value they bring is the, is is their taste, not the tools that they use. 618 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,680 It's the, you know, it's their subjective taste that they bring 619 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,600 to the table for people that. 620 00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:04,530 Have to write for a living and create code and things like that where subjectivity 621 00:29:04,530 --> 00:29:08,310 is, you know, I guess writing isn't really the case, but you know, the more 622 00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:12,210 you remove subjectivity from the, the end product, I feel like the, the riskier 623 00:29:12,210 --> 00:29:14,790 your job probably is, if that makes sense. 624 00:29:14,790 --> 00:29:15,450 Does that make sense? 625 00:29:15,690 --> 00:29:16,445 Oh yeah, a hundred percent. 626 00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:21,570 And I'll tell you, like, I'm like, you know, from a, like a developer 627 00:29:21,570 --> 00:29:25,620 perspective, you know, I still struggle with calling myself a developer sometimes 628 00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:29,850 because I, you know, it's not my background and I only picked up like 629 00:29:29,910 --> 00:29:34,620 JavaScript development to build the stuff I wanted to build because I couldn't do 630 00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:36,000 it with the tools that were out there. 631 00:29:36,180 --> 00:29:38,610 I just wanna be, basically, I wanna clarify for everybody listening right 632 00:29:38,610 --> 00:29:42,570 now, that Brian's being extraordinarily humble and this dude is, is like, 633 00:29:42,930 --> 00:29:45,000 he's like developer, Rainman. 634 00:29:46,185 --> 00:29:47,715 No, no, it's important. 635 00:29:47,715 --> 00:29:49,665 I, I really think that it's, it's important that people 636 00:29:49,665 --> 00:29:52,485 understand that about you, that like, you're, you're phenomenal. 637 00:29:53,055 --> 00:29:54,675 And I'm not saying that you're like a world class programmer. 638 00:29:54,675 --> 00:29:57,225 You, you've got a long way to go for that, but you're really 639 00:29:57,225 --> 00:29:58,995 excellent at what you do, right? 640 00:29:58,995 --> 00:30:01,545 So it's important that this, you're not, you're not making this statement from 641 00:30:01,545 --> 00:30:03,345 like, Hey, I am an amateur, you know? 642 00:30:03,405 --> 00:30:03,765 Yeah. 643 00:30:03,765 --> 00:30:04,695 I'm, I'm not an amateur. 644 00:30:04,755 --> 00:30:05,925 We, we'll say that a hundred percent. 645 00:30:06,015 --> 00:30:06,195 Right. 646 00:30:06,855 --> 00:30:11,415 And, and like the, the thing, like the, I I think for us as like an 647 00:30:11,415 --> 00:30:15,195 industry is like em embracing that intersection, like, you know, like 648 00:30:15,285 --> 00:30:15,525 right. 649 00:30:15,555 --> 00:30:19,935 For me personally, like being able to blend like the, the different 650 00:30:19,935 --> 00:30:23,745 experiences I've had together and, and like being able to create something. 651 00:30:23,745 --> 00:30:28,695 So like graphic design, you know, sign and print design is not web design, 652 00:30:28,935 --> 00:30:31,755 but like good design principles. 653 00:30:32,745 --> 00:30:33,460 Good design is good design. 654 00:30:33,460 --> 00:30:35,475 Even like as cross discipline, right? 655 00:30:35,475 --> 00:30:35,655 Right. 656 00:30:35,895 --> 00:30:39,795 So like if I'm developing something or I'm coding something, I. 657 00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:41,010 Yeah. 658 00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:43,830 Like, I'm just gonna infuse that into, to that work. 659 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,590 But I will tell you that like I, I've used like some of the AI tools, like 660 00:30:49,590 --> 00:30:53,130 one of the ones that I'm using a lot is like, Claude is the name of it. 661 00:30:53,130 --> 00:30:56,730 I pretty much, I canceled my chat, GPT subscription. 662 00:30:57,060 --> 00:30:58,020 I'm using Claude. 663 00:30:58,110 --> 00:31:04,170 I pay, it's like 29 bucks a month for it, use it for all sorts of things. 664 00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:10,050 But like, if, if it's, it, like, it is especially great for like 665 00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:13,320 the coding perspective because you've got somebody that has this 666 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,710 large repository of knowledge that you can get instant feedback from. 667 00:31:16,710 --> 00:31:17,160 Mm-hmm. 668 00:31:17,166 --> 00:31:21,450 Basically, um, if there's a lot of great developers out there, but having 669 00:31:21,450 --> 00:31:27,360 one that's pretty good with you at all times is like a huge level up 670 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,760 where you could just, you know, yeah. 671 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:31,560 Like these things still hallucinate. 672 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,930 They still like create shit out of thin air. 673 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:36,930 Um, but the nice thing about code is, is like you can just. 674 00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:38,940 Pop it in there, see if it runs. 675 00:31:38,970 --> 00:31:41,580 Like you can look at it and see like what's going on. 676 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,820 But as a developer, like for me, I'm fully aware that I am like 677 00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:51,600 training a replacement when I use these tools and that, you know? 678 00:31:51,930 --> 00:31:52,050 Right. 679 00:31:52,110 --> 00:31:55,110 Because I'm, I'm, I'm never gonna go deep enough into programming to 680 00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:58,800 be like, you know, the mythical, like Silicon Valley hacker. 681 00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:58,890 Right. 682 00:31:59,010 --> 00:32:01,410 Like for me, it's, that's not why I like it. 683 00:32:01,410 --> 00:32:04,020 It it, I like it because I can build the stuff that I wanna build. 684 00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:05,040 Right. 685 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,020 For, for you, the, the payoff is the end result, not the, not, not 686 00:32:10,020 --> 00:32:11,610 the, you know, 10,000 lines of code. 687 00:32:11,610 --> 00:32:11,880 Right? 688 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:11,895 I, I, 689 00:32:11,895 --> 00:32:12,085 yeah. 690 00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:14,820 I, I don't, yeah, for me, I, I don't think I'll. 691 00:32:16,514 --> 00:32:20,235 It, don't get me wrong, like it, it is an art form for like the guys who are 692 00:32:20,775 --> 00:32:22,845 expert programmers and they, you know, 693 00:32:22,905 --> 00:32:23,420 right, absolutely. 694 00:32:23,655 --> 00:32:23,895 Like, could 695 00:32:23,895 --> 00:32:27,705 pick up any language, like watching those guys work is a, is an art form and 696 00:32:27,705 --> 00:32:28,485 mm-hmm. 697 00:32:28,754 --> 00:32:30,375 You know, and for right, and for them, writing the code is what 698 00:32:30,375 --> 00:32:31,905 they, what they geek out about. 699 00:32:31,905 --> 00:32:33,585 That's what they're there for or for you. 700 00:32:33,585 --> 00:32:36,615 Like, you wanna see that functional app or website or whatever, right? 701 00:32:36,615 --> 00:32:36,795 Yeah. 702 00:32:36,795 --> 00:32:39,105 Because you're, you're at the end of the day, you're a creator. 703 00:32:39,105 --> 00:32:40,035 Like, you're like me. 704 00:32:40,514 --> 00:32:43,605 But I mean, that, that's, that's a, that's I think the most important 705 00:32:43,995 --> 00:32:47,385 thing for everybody to, to take away from AI is exactly what you just said, 706 00:32:47,385 --> 00:32:52,635 is that it's a, it's a tool to make you better at what you already do. 707 00:32:52,754 --> 00:32:56,504 And, and I think if, if humanity embraces it in that way, like, it, it, 708 00:32:56,805 --> 00:33:02,115 it will, I, I mean, in the next couple decades, like, you know, humanity 709 00:33:02,115 --> 00:33:04,935 is gonna advance at like an, an astounding rate if we use it that way. 710 00:33:05,355 --> 00:33:05,985 Um. 711 00:33:06,629 --> 00:33:10,440 You know, research and, and like you said, writing code and, and, um, I 712 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,940 just got a new, uh, Google phone and it has Google's Gemini AI built into it 713 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:17,850 instead of their old, kind of like Google version of Siri, which kind of sucked. 714 00:33:17,850 --> 00:33:19,649 And the new ai, I mean, I can just sit here and have a 715 00:33:19,649 --> 00:33:21,389 conversation with it all day long. 716 00:33:21,389 --> 00:33:23,429 And it, it explains things to me as I'm working. 717 00:33:23,429 --> 00:33:30,780 And, um, you know, our, our daughter has some questionably skilled teachers 718 00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:32,820 in her high school, I guess we'll say. 719 00:33:32,820 --> 00:33:36,300 And she comes home with a lot of questions that they're just not doing a good job 720 00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:39,179 of explaining to her, or they're since not, you know, it's not soaking in. 721 00:33:39,179 --> 00:33:44,040 And we spend a lot of time on, on chat, GPT, or she does really, they're not us. 722 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,710 I mean, she spends a lot of time on Jets, GPT and I, I read through some of the 723 00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:51,270 threads that she has on there and it's amazing at explaining to her how to do 724 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:53,730 certain math things or, or whatever. 725 00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:57,929 I mean, so yeah, if we use it right, it can make us better people, it can make 726 00:33:57,929 --> 00:34:03,090 us smarter and more efficient at what we do and, and more productive and, and. 727 00:34:03,330 --> 00:34:03,389 Yeah. 728 00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:05,100 But is that a good thing? 729 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,685 Like is it taking the effort outta that? 730 00:34:07,715 --> 00:34:08,005 Yeah, 731 00:34:08,005 --> 00:34:11,069 you could, you could argue that it's making us lazier too, or, you 732 00:34:11,074 --> 00:34:16,409 know, I, I think it, like, there's a difference in using it and depending 733 00:34:16,409 --> 00:34:18,090 on it, I guess, you know what I mean? 734 00:34:18,090 --> 00:34:19,290 Like it, right. 735 00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:22,319 If you, I think that's where it like, starts to delineate. 736 00:34:22,350 --> 00:34:27,120 Like, it if you take like, design, just because, you know, that's kind of like 737 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,409 the big point that we're riffing on. 738 00:34:28,799 --> 00:34:32,520 Like if you're relying on this thing to create, to help you in the design 739 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:37,350 process, but you don't have that foundation, it's, you know, I, I, 740 00:34:37,980 --> 00:34:39,090 that's where I get hung up on it. 741 00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:43,590 Or, you know, if I'm using it to develop an app and I don't, I don't 742 00:34:43,590 --> 00:34:45,060 really know what I'm doing mm-hmm. 743 00:34:45,134 --> 00:34:47,969 Or what the end result, like something's gonna be, it's gonna go wrong. 744 00:34:47,975 --> 00:34:48,255 Right. 745 00:34:48,295 --> 00:34:48,694 A hundred percent 746 00:34:48,745 --> 00:34:49,409 Right, right. 747 00:34:49,409 --> 00:34:51,299 Back to what I, I just said about it, you know, without 748 00:34:51,299 --> 00:34:53,429 the human subjectivity factor. 749 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:54,480 Yeah. 750 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,319 And, and you're right. 751 00:34:55,319 --> 00:34:58,049 If the human involved in it doesn't have the skill or knowledge. 752 00:34:58,695 --> 00:35:00,045 That's where it's gonna go off. 753 00:35:00,045 --> 00:35:00,645 That's a really good point. 754 00:35:00,645 --> 00:35:01,575 That's where it's gonna go off the rails. 755 00:35:01,575 --> 00:35:01,785 Yeah. 756 00:35:01,785 --> 00:35:06,255 If, if as a good designer, if I have it, create an image or something 757 00:35:06,255 --> 00:35:09,495 for me, and I, I'm able to look at that and say, yeah, that's good. 758 00:35:09,495 --> 00:35:10,095 I can use that. 759 00:35:10,095 --> 00:35:10,845 Or, no, that's garbage. 760 00:35:10,845 --> 00:35:13,785 I can't, you know, that. 761 00:35:14,745 --> 00:35:18,075 And that's, you know, this is true about any, any professional, anything in life. 762 00:35:18,075 --> 00:35:20,985 Like, you know, being able to make that decision is what separates the, 763 00:35:21,165 --> 00:35:22,365 the professionals from the amateurs. 764 00:35:22,875 --> 00:35:25,875 But, you know, as, as we all know, and this isn't necessarily 765 00:35:25,875 --> 00:35:27,945 meant to be a knock on anybody, everybody has to start somewhere. 766 00:35:27,945 --> 00:35:32,565 But there are a lot of amateurs in the design industry, in the web 767 00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:34,305 design, web development industry. 768 00:35:34,305 --> 00:35:35,985 I mean, every industry, there's a lot of amateurs. 769 00:35:35,985 --> 00:35:41,055 And if you put a powerful tool like this in the wrong hands, and those amateurs 770 00:35:41,265 --> 00:35:44,925 don't have the experience and skill and knowledge to look at what is created and 771 00:35:44,925 --> 00:35:49,035 say that isn't good, that isn't up to a professional standard, that won't work. 772 00:35:49,575 --> 00:35:52,155 And they put it out there anyway just because they lack 773 00:35:52,155 --> 00:35:53,385 the knowledge to know better. 774 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,930 Um, you know, that's, that's another black hole that we 775 00:35:57,930 --> 00:35:59,700 could, or, you know, dark place. 776 00:35:59,700 --> 00:36:00,359 We could go into 777 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:03,689 so many dark spots. 778 00:36:03,689 --> 00:36:09,810 I, you know, I, I think the, just devaluing it, it, like, I don't, I 779 00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:12,660 don't know if it's where we're like, I'm getting older and like, I, you 780 00:36:12,660 --> 00:36:17,609 know, it's like, it's more work for me to just stay up to date on, on things. 781 00:36:17,609 --> 00:36:21,750 But like, you know, I, it feels like it devalues your experience, 782 00:36:21,779 --> 00:36:22,980 like on a personal level. 783 00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:26,370 It's like, okay, like this thing in a year and a half, it's figured out how to 784 00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:30,930 do shit that took us years to, to learn. 785 00:36:31,439 --> 00:36:31,890 Right, right. 786 00:36:32,580 --> 00:36:34,950 And, and at a certain level you're like, well, shit. 787 00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:37,500 Like, okay, like where do we go from here? 788 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:40,319 Because you know, you can already see the trajectory where it's like, right, 789 00:36:40,350 --> 00:36:40,710 right. 790 00:36:41,460 --> 00:36:43,529 Uh, yeah, I was thinking about this the other day when 791 00:36:43,529 --> 00:36:47,400 I was in school junior high. 792 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,580 Say I was in junior high and I needed to learn about something for 793 00:36:50,580 --> 00:36:52,110 a test or a report I had to write. 794 00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:54,690 My options were basically to go to the library and get out the 795 00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:58,380 encyclopedia or hope they might have had a book specifically about that 796 00:36:58,380 --> 00:36:59,310 subject that I had to learn about. 797 00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:02,130 And if they didn't, I had to go to another library or another one until I found one 798 00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:03,660 that had something that I could learn. 799 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,470 And now, you know, and that took a lot of effort. 800 00:37:07,470 --> 00:37:09,060 Like there was a lot of effort involved in that. 801 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:11,220 And when you actually found what you were looking for and you got 802 00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:15,540 that report done, like you, there was a sense of accomplishment. 803 00:37:15,540 --> 00:37:19,140 You know, like you, you, you've built something almost right, like 804 00:37:19,140 --> 00:37:22,830 you didn't, but you, you really went through a lot of hassle to, to learn 805 00:37:22,830 --> 00:37:24,569 that, and you were dedicated to it. 806 00:37:24,569 --> 00:37:27,390 And there's, there's a real sense of pride and accomplishment when you do that. 807 00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:33,509 And now, like literally the, the, the entirety of human knowledge, 808 00:37:34,350 --> 00:37:38,400 the entire span of humanity is now available to anybody. 809 00:37:39,089 --> 00:37:45,569 Instantly like every, you know, like is it, if people don't have the work for it, 810 00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:51,899 the knowledge is it, does it inherently valuable anymore, or, I mean, not just 811 00:37:51,899 --> 00:37:56,310 the end result, but the knowledge itself is, you know, knowledge has always been 812 00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:58,230 power, you know, history of humanity. 813 00:37:58,259 --> 00:37:59,100 Knowledge is power. 814 00:37:59,100 --> 00:38:01,290 Knowledge is what everything is built on. 815 00:38:01,830 --> 00:38:05,700 And if, if, if knowledge is, now, you know, this, this is 816 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:06,810 like a slippery slope, you know? 817 00:38:06,839 --> 00:38:09,509 'cause on one hand, like we want all of humanity to be empowered with knowledge. 818 00:38:09,509 --> 00:38:11,250 We want everybody to be smarts, right? 819 00:38:11,339 --> 00:38:12,210 We want everybody to know everything. 820 00:38:12,210 --> 00:38:14,609 But at the same time, when everybody actually does know everything, like, 821 00:38:16,350 --> 00:38:19,560 well, I can argue now on social media, everybody does know everything. 822 00:38:20,279 --> 00:38:21,600 That's true. 823 00:38:23,129 --> 00:38:24,990 I, that's actually, yeah, that's a really good point. 824 00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:27,600 I, again, humanity will probably never be able to. 825 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,520 Fully, you know, sniff out the difference between, you know, real and bullshit. 826 00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:35,430 But I think that's a topic for another conversation. 827 00:38:35,580 --> 00:38:38,910 I mean, probably specifically if you're trying to research something, we'll 828 00:38:38,910 --> 00:38:44,760 keep it in that, you know, leveling the playing field to that extreme 829 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,820 extent on the surface, obviously. 830 00:38:47,820 --> 00:38:48,600 Yeah, that's great. 831 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,710 That puts everybody in the same, but, but if you remove the effort, if you 832 00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:58,950 remove the knowhow and the, the work to obtain that skill or that knowledge, 833 00:38:58,950 --> 00:39:02,160 or whatever it is, with programming or designing a logo or something like that. 834 00:39:02,610 --> 00:39:02,850 Yeah. 835 00:39:02,850 --> 00:39:08,130 I mean, does it devalue the, the end result? 836 00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:10,200 Does it devalue the knowledge involved in it? 837 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,900 Does it devalue the person that created it? 838 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:14,790 Does it devalue humanity as a whole? 839 00:39:16,740 --> 00:39:17,070 Does it. 840 00:39:20,325 --> 00:39:21,735 Is that a resounding yes, it does. 841 00:39:21,735 --> 00:39:22,365 Or, I don't 842 00:39:22,365 --> 00:39:22,545 know. 843 00:39:22,545 --> 00:39:24,255 I mean, I just short circuited my own brain. 844 00:39:24,255 --> 00:39:24,525 I don't know. 845 00:39:25,035 --> 00:39:30,375 Yeah, I, I, I, I think there is like, bringing it back down, like obviously 846 00:39:30,375 --> 00:39:31,665 there's a lot of implications, right? 847 00:39:31,665 --> 00:39:37,065 Because if a client can slap a, you know, it used to be like, Hey, my 848 00:39:37,065 --> 00:39:40,725 cousin has Photoshop, but now it's like a chat g PT designed this. 849 00:39:40,725 --> 00:39:41,384 Can you print it? 850 00:39:41,415 --> 00:39:41,595 Right? 851 00:39:41,595 --> 00:39:44,055 It's like, well, yeah, same kind of thing. 852 00:39:44,175 --> 00:39:50,835 But obviously like now when it is like design, uh, you know, to somebody outside 853 00:39:50,835 --> 00:39:56,805 the industry can be touch of a button or, you know, talking to Siri or, you know, 854 00:39:56,805 --> 00:40:02,355 I think Apple's gonna add generative AI in like the, the next version of iOS, 855 00:40:02,355 --> 00:40:03,855 which I, I think is already launched. 856 00:40:03,855 --> 00:40:09,134 But you know, like when design is now like, Hey, I need a poster that 857 00:40:09,134 --> 00:40:11,925 says this and this style, like. 858 00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:18,000 As, as designers or we like sign people, you know, obviously people will still need 859 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:22,350 physical signs, so until robots figure that out, we're probably protected there. 860 00:40:22,350 --> 00:40:28,110 But, you know, as a designer, like, you know, you're aside from your 861 00:40:28,110 --> 00:40:30,509 own personal stuff, like you're not banging out signs anymore. 862 00:40:31,350 --> 00:40:33,240 Like are you, are you scared? 863 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:35,040 No. 864 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:35,160 At all. 865 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:35,610 I'm not. 866 00:40:35,615 --> 00:40:40,920 I'm, I'm really not because, and maybe that's really naive of me and maybe 867 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:48,600 I should be, uh, um, but I, I'm, I'm not, I, I, again, because I don't 868 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,130 think it'll ever fully replace the, the human factor, the human taste factor. 869 00:40:53,190 --> 00:41:01,110 Um, I, I think that, I, I think in, in a way it will, I. 870 00:41:02,550 --> 00:41:05,700 Help separate the good designers from the bad designers and hopefully 871 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:08,070 make the bad designers go away. 872 00:41:08,130 --> 00:41:11,250 I mean, I, I, you know, like, I, I hope it either makes the bad 873 00:41:11,250 --> 00:41:15,450 designers become good designers or find another line of work, right? 874 00:41:15,450 --> 00:41:19,590 Like, I, I just, I don't like, again, everybody has a start somewhere, 875 00:41:19,620 --> 00:41:24,000 but I don't like seeing bad design. 876 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,720 No, but no designer likes to see bad design, so it, I guess it has 877 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:36,660 the potential of maybe pushing the entire spectrum of design in a, in 878 00:41:36,660 --> 00:41:40,530 a better direction by weeding out the bad stuff in a way, I mean. 879 00:41:41,805 --> 00:41:43,575 Because what it, what it creates, I mean, a lot of the stuff it 880 00:41:43,575 --> 00:41:45,045 creates isn't necessarily bad. 881 00:41:45,105 --> 00:41:47,444 I mean, it's, it's definitely workable and usable. 882 00:41:47,685 --> 00:41:50,625 And if you're a, a tiny little small mom and pop business with literally 883 00:41:50,625 --> 00:41:53,115 no marketing budget, and you're trying to just keep your doors open another 884 00:41:53,115 --> 00:41:56,654 month and you need a poster, you can't afford to hire a graphic designer. 885 00:41:56,654 --> 00:41:58,875 Like, that's just not the reality of the world that we live in. 886 00:41:58,875 --> 00:42:01,545 So you need something, and if you, options are either something that looks 887 00:42:01,545 --> 00:42:04,665 like crap that you threw together in Microsoft Paint or something that, 888 00:42:04,875 --> 00:42:09,075 you know, that AI did for you, like, yeah, like that's, that's a no brainer. 889 00:42:09,075 --> 00:42:12,404 And that, and I would much rather see that AI generated banner hanging a 890 00:42:12,404 --> 00:42:16,935 window, even if a pro didn't get paid to design it, because that, that propagates 891 00:42:17,505 --> 00:42:18,884 better quality design work all around. 892 00:42:18,884 --> 00:42:19,035 And, 893 00:42:19,485 --> 00:42:22,485 and I think a, like, there was a epi like the episode with Dan. 894 00:42:22,904 --> 00:42:25,210 Like, I, I love the way that like, he positioned it, it 895 00:42:25,214 --> 00:42:27,435 is like, yeah, y yes there. 896 00:42:28,410 --> 00:42:31,920 Designers, and, you know, they create ama amazing brands, but they 897 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:36,240 see themselves as stewards of their clients and not like, Hey, I'm not 898 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,790 here to create a, an amazing design. 899 00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:42,120 I'm here to help them achieve business results. 900 00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:42,900 Right, exactly. 901 00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:42,990 And, 902 00:42:42,995 --> 00:42:48,300 and I, and I freaking love seeing like, like they've totally switched over the 903 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:52,830 last year into like, Hey, these are the results that we deliver as far as a brand. 904 00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:57,720 But I, you know, I, I think that is a hundred percent, like 905 00:42:58,740 --> 00:43:00,480 for me it was, it was results. 906 00:43:00,540 --> 00:43:00,780 Right, 907 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,650 right, right. 908 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:07,140 There will always be if AI didn't exist right now, and it was like 909 00:43:07,140 --> 00:43:08,310 Exactly, it was three years ago. 910 00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:08,550 Right. 911 00:43:08,910 --> 00:43:13,320 There will always be designers that are just designing by the pound. 912 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,000 They're just cranking shit out to get it out the door. 913 00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:17,160 They don't, they're not putting that thought into it. 914 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,430 They're, they're thinking about, you know, just, I. 915 00:43:21,105 --> 00:43:24,225 This customer has a budget of $25 for a poster design, I'm gonna 916 00:43:24,225 --> 00:43:26,145 give 'em a poster design for $25. 917 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:26,325 Right? 918 00:43:26,595 --> 00:43:29,055 There's always gonna be those people and there's always going to be clients 919 00:43:29,055 --> 00:43:34,904 that only want that, that can only afford that, and they're, they're, you 920 00:43:34,904 --> 00:43:36,884 know, those clients are never gonna use the Dan Antonelli's of the world. 921 00:43:36,884 --> 00:43:37,785 That's just not how it works. 922 00:43:38,865 --> 00:43:41,504 No matter, no matter what, they just never, ever will. 923 00:43:41,504 --> 00:43:45,375 So it's, I think it's great that they have an option available to them that, 924 00:43:46,274 --> 00:43:50,535 like I said, does put out better work than what you would get from the $25. 925 00:43:50,895 --> 00:43:51,435 Designer. 926 00:43:51,435 --> 00:43:56,774 And I know that's kind of like, in a way, shitting on my own people, but I, I mean, 927 00:43:56,774 --> 00:43:58,125 it's a, it's a merit based industry. 928 00:43:58,125 --> 00:44:00,015 Like if you're not good, you shouldn't be in the industry. 929 00:44:00,015 --> 00:44:01,995 Like it's, I know that sounds harsh, but it is what it is. 930 00:44:01,995 --> 00:44:04,575 And if you're not trying to get better at it, and you're not trying to 931 00:44:04,575 --> 00:44:07,814 constantly improve, you're, this industry will eat you alive and spit you out. 932 00:44:07,814 --> 00:44:09,194 So, I don't know. 933 00:44:09,194 --> 00:44:13,200 I, I see it in a way as being able to do that, you know, you know, 934 00:44:13,305 --> 00:44:16,634 and potentially move the needle in a positive direction in some way. 935 00:44:16,634 --> 00:44:20,024 I mean, I, I, I mean that's, I feel like that's a really, like trying to 936 00:44:20,024 --> 00:44:25,095 really grasp at a, a glass is half full perspective on it, but, well, I, you 937 00:44:25,095 --> 00:44:30,435 know, I, I like, like is it a, it becoming an assistive tool, right? 938 00:44:30,435 --> 00:44:34,245 Because, you know, if you go back like a generation and, and like you see like 939 00:44:34,245 --> 00:44:37,575 stuff like gold leaf and hand littering and stuff making a comeback now, but it, 940 00:44:37,575 --> 00:44:39,194 it, like, it's never gonna be what it was. 941 00:44:39,615 --> 00:44:43,455 But like the, the same folks when like CAD cut vinyl, you know, like 942 00:44:43,455 --> 00:44:47,145 plotters came out was, you know, like there was a group that's like, okay. 943 00:44:47,775 --> 00:44:51,315 Hey, I'm, I'm gonna embrace this, or, or didn't know enough to like, 944 00:44:51,375 --> 00:44:54,825 Hey, you know, this is the way this is gonna be done from now on. 945 00:44:55,515 --> 00:44:59,025 Uh, did that, that took a lot of the craft out of it in my mind, for sure. 946 00:44:59,025 --> 00:45:03,585 And, and things are, you know, I won't say slowly writing themselves because 947 00:45:03,585 --> 00:45:10,065 there's still a, a design and like signed by the pound mentality out there. 948 00:45:10,365 --> 00:45:10,515 Mm-hmm. 949 00:45:10,754 --> 00:45:14,174 Um, but at least like a lot of the guests that we have, you know, very creative 950 00:45:14,174 --> 00:45:17,444 projects, very, very craft oriented. 951 00:45:17,595 --> 00:45:23,025 But you know, like, does it become a tool to help in the process or like 952 00:45:23,025 --> 00:45:25,815 you do, you stay away from it entirely. 953 00:45:26,805 --> 00:45:27,254 And I, 954 00:45:27,884 --> 00:45:31,995 I, you know, I think it'll be like when the, the Gerber four B hit the market and 955 00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:37,335 you had like four fonts to choose from and they were all variation of Helvetica. 956 00:45:37,890 --> 00:45:41,130 Um, and all of a sudden every sign on the planet in the country 957 00:45:41,130 --> 00:45:42,840 was red Hellvetica on white. 958 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,020 Like that's, I I think that will, there'll definitely be a period 959 00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:51,690 of time where, um, the market will be flooded with AI generated 960 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,750 graphics and marketing and stuff. 961 00:45:54,750 --> 00:45:55,290 Yeah, for sure. 962 00:45:55,290 --> 00:45:55,950 That's inevitable. 963 00:45:55,950 --> 00:45:59,280 I think that happens in any industry when any, any new technology or tool comes out. 964 00:46:00,235 --> 00:46:02,670 But I dunno, like I said, I don't see it as an existential threat. 965 00:46:02,670 --> 00:46:06,480 I really, I don't, I think Okay, if, if 966 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,340 I'm gonna share my screen now. 967 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,520 For those of you who are, who are listening to this thing, I'm 968 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:18,000 gonna try to narrate as best as I can to, to narrate this even 969 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,710 though like it's an audio podcast. 970 00:46:19,710 --> 00:46:22,320 So you just have to bounce on YouTube and watch the video version. 971 00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:24,810 Alright, Mike, you see my screen? 972 00:46:25,110 --> 00:46:25,920 I see your serene. 973 00:46:26,250 --> 00:46:26,580 Okay. 974 00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:26,850 All right. 975 00:46:26,850 --> 00:46:28,020 So two things here. 976 00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:31,590 I've got on the right, I have this Claude application. 977 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:33,810 It says, good afternoon, Bryant. 978 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,150 I'm gonna bang something in here in just a moment. 979 00:46:36,420 --> 00:46:42,300 On the left, I have a website called Replicate, which is a way, 980 00:46:42,570 --> 00:46:48,750 um, to basically run these open source, uh, like image generation 981 00:46:48,750 --> 00:46:51,120 models and other like, AI models. 982 00:46:52,050 --> 00:46:53,610 Now, essentially, this is kind of like a, 983 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,405 it's like a midjourney, like a dolly about kind, it's kind of 984 00:46:57,405 --> 00:46:58,486 an interface for right about 985 00:46:58,765 --> 00:46:59,010 right, right? 986 00:46:59,010 --> 00:46:59,310 Yeah. 987 00:46:59,610 --> 00:47:02,310 Basically like it, it's extracting all the code for me. 988 00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:05,310 So now I have Mike's website up here. 989 00:47:07,140 --> 00:47:10,980 I'm going to find a nice piece of work. 990 00:47:10,980 --> 00:47:15,630 I, I really like the Central Valley image, a, the Central Valley 991 00:47:15,630 --> 00:47:17,100 Monument sign that you've created. 992 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:26,100 I'm gonna paste this thing into Claude, and I'm gonna say, write a prompt 993 00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:31,680 that would generate a similar sign. 994 00:47:32,925 --> 00:47:33,225 Okay. 995 00:47:34,335 --> 00:47:38,925 So most of these AI models now, especially like chat, GPT and Claude, 996 00:47:39,705 --> 00:47:45,975 um, they have the ability to examine an image and see what's going on. 997 00:47:45,975 --> 00:47:51,525 So this one, it is a, uh, a barn red monument sign with, uh, a vertical 998 00:47:51,615 --> 00:47:55,275 slats on it with, uh, what is that? 999 00:47:55,275 --> 00:47:57,135 Just, uh, dimensional letters attached to it? 1000 00:47:57,525 --> 00:48:00,555 Yeah, just some dimensional letters and some gooseneck lamps shining down on it. 1001 00:48:00,555 --> 00:48:01,845 Kind of a concrete base. 1002 00:48:02,475 --> 00:48:02,745 Yeah. 1003 00:48:02,865 --> 00:48:06,735 So create a modern store sign design for Central Valley Hardware 1004 00:48:06,735 --> 00:48:08,505 and Agricultural supply store. 1005 00:48:09,315 --> 00:48:13,725 The sign should be mounted on a raised concrete base with decorative landscaping, 1006 00:48:13,725 --> 00:48:15,585 including pink flowers, blah, blah, blah. 1007 00:48:17,325 --> 00:48:21,015 Just to like summarize this, would you say this is a pretty 1008 00:48:21,015 --> 00:48:22,725 accurate description of the sign? 1009 00:48:25,635 --> 00:48:27,135 I couldn't write it better myself. 1010 00:48:29,460 --> 00:48:39,720 Okay, so I'm gonna ask it to transform this prompt into something that would work 1011 00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:43,080 with Mid Journey or something like that. 1012 00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,360 Just because, like, the other thing that I've discovered with AI and just like my 1013 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:56,220 own testing is like how you prompt these things are a, a little more, I, I like 1014 00:48:56,550 --> 00:48:59,640 you have to massage it a bit, I guess. 1015 00:48:59,759 --> 00:49:04,710 Um, and this is not, I, I don't know what this is gonna do specifically, 1016 00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:08,940 but I'm just gonna paste this into the replicate application over here. 1017 00:49:08,940 --> 00:49:13,950 And I could even, like, I, I could throw this like a, a sample image 1018 00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:15,480 in here as well if I wanted to. 1019 00:49:16,110 --> 00:49:17,880 But what I've done in the background. 1020 00:49:18,674 --> 00:49:22,485 Before this, and, and this is like some testing I've done on my own. 1021 00:49:23,174 --> 00:49:29,295 I have trained using this software, a custom image generation model based on 1022 00:49:29,295 --> 00:49:33,705 like five or 10 pictures of, of signage that I've just grabbed from Google. 1023 00:49:34,634 --> 00:49:38,805 And I'm just gonna sit here and now we're going to run this. 1024 00:49:39,194 --> 00:49:43,245 Do we have a, uh, I don't have any actual text in here, so 1025 00:49:43,634 --> 00:49:45,255 let me add that, that piece. 1026 00:49:48,705 --> 00:49:49,694 Are you sweating, Mike? 1027 00:49:52,365 --> 00:49:55,935 No, I know what it's, I, I know what it's gonna do more or less. 1028 00:49:56,009 --> 00:49:56,625 I, I mean, 1029 00:49:56,835 --> 00:49:59,955 I, I mean, I'm curious because this is the first time I've like actually done it 1030 00:49:59,955 --> 00:50:01,875 live to see what it, what it spits out. 1031 00:50:04,245 --> 00:50:08,145 And I may have to like lean on like some of the previous generations for this. 1032 00:50:08,325 --> 00:50:16,154 But like this thing is going through, we've started the process, um, 93%. 1033 00:50:16,875 --> 00:50:17,924 And this is what we get. 1034 00:50:17,924 --> 00:50:19,125 We get Centar Valley. 1035 00:50:19,154 --> 00:50:23,685 So it's, the text is a little bit off, but as far as like an actual 1036 00:50:23,685 --> 00:50:30,555 sign, I, I mean is, you know, like a rendering, like it's, it's pretty close. 1037 00:50:30,555 --> 00:50:32,745 We could, we could jam this again and see what it comes up with, 1038 00:50:32,895 --> 00:50:38,500 but compared to where it was like this, this is what scares me. 1039 00:50:38,799 --> 00:50:39,220 Mm-hmm. 1040 00:50:39,730 --> 00:50:42,165 Because it abso absolutely, like you could clearly see like 1041 00:50:42,165 --> 00:50:43,694 even down to like, the shadows. 1042 00:50:43,694 --> 00:50:50,805 The shadows, you know, like the level of detail is like mind blowing to me. 1043 00:50:53,145 --> 00:50:53,565 It is. 1044 00:50:53,595 --> 00:50:54,404 It really is. 1045 00:50:54,435 --> 00:50:54,944 Um. 1046 00:50:58,365 --> 00:50:58,814 Freaky. 1047 00:50:58,964 --> 00:51:04,575 Now obviously this is, this is not, you know, the text is goofed up on 1048 00:51:04,575 --> 00:51:08,055 this one, but like I, I could show some of the, the past examples that 1049 00:51:08,055 --> 00:51:13,064 I've ran from this where the text was like a hundred percent spot on and 1050 00:51:13,064 --> 00:51:15,765 yeah, you've sent me a few that I'm, I was pretty impressed with. 1051 00:51:15,765 --> 00:51:19,424 I mean, that's pretty wild that it's getting that good a text. 1052 00:51:19,424 --> 00:51:20,955 I mean, it was a matter of time before It did. 1053 00:51:20,955 --> 00:51:24,345 I knew it would eventually, but it's, it's here faster than I thought. 1054 00:51:25,125 --> 00:51:28,995 Yeah, I mean, and, and I, I guess I'll share some of those with 1055 00:51:28,995 --> 00:51:33,975 the episode, but you know, like, I, what do you do with this? 1056 00:51:33,975 --> 00:51:37,185 Like, you know, has this become a tool for like somebody to, 1057 00:51:39,435 --> 00:51:41,654 I, you know, obviously like I'm not gonna do anything with it. 1058 00:51:41,654 --> 00:51:45,705 'cause I like seeing you in business, but you know, like theoretically 1059 00:51:45,705 --> 00:51:49,154 I could start my own like, signed concept design service or something 1060 00:51:49,154 --> 00:51:50,504 with, with this sort of thing. 1061 00:51:50,504 --> 00:51:50,564 I. 1062 00:51:50,564 --> 00:51:50,610 R 1063 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:51,720 Right, right. 1064 00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:54,300 Like it for what? 1065 00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:55,170 For what I do. 1066 00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:55,500 Right. 1067 00:51:55,500 --> 00:52:00,510 For, for a sign designer, what you just created there is a great looking sign. 1068 00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:01,590 Like there's, there's no denying it. 1069 00:52:01,590 --> 00:52:02,640 It's actually a good looking sign. 1070 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,250 Like that's a sign that a sign company could definitely 1071 00:52:05,250 --> 00:52:07,140 propose and sell for sure. 1072 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,270 But it's cool. 1073 00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:12,060 I mean, it created a great image of a sign, but what are you gonna do with that? 1074 00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:12,300 Right? 1075 00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:16,650 Like, it's not a, you know, that's where the human element comes in. 1076 00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:19,290 Like, you can't just generate that and put it in front of a 1077 00:52:19,290 --> 00:52:21,780 customer and say, buy this from me. 1078 00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:23,850 And, you know, you can't even put a number on it. 1079 00:52:24,540 --> 00:52:29,100 And that's where something like chat, GPT or, or any of these AI 1080 00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:32,340 tools is never going to be able, at least I don't think, again, I hope I 1081 00:52:32,340 --> 00:52:33,180 don't have to eat my words on this. 1082 00:52:33,660 --> 00:52:38,100 It's never gonna be able to come up with that design as an actual 1083 00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:43,080 buildable, quotable drawing that has dimensions and is actually designed and 1084 00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:44,670 you know, in a way that can be built. 1085 00:52:44,670 --> 00:52:47,160 I mean, this is something that, you know, anybody who's ever had 1086 00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:48,090 a conversation with me about. 1087 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,230 Sign design knows that I, I am like, one of my biggest pet peeves is 1088 00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:55,440 people who design signs that look really pretty but then can't be built. 1089 00:52:55,860 --> 00:52:56,100 Right. 1090 00:52:56,430 --> 00:52:57,270 That sucks. 1091 00:52:57,420 --> 00:52:58,410 That's like one of the worst things. 1092 00:52:58,410 --> 00:53:00,720 I mean, it's, it's awful for a salesperson in this industry to show 1093 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:05,040 a customer this beautiful design, get them all excited about it, and 1094 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:06,510 then have to go back and say, ah, 1095 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:08,130 ah, yeah, 1096 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:08,760 yeah. 1097 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:12,210 Like, you know, turns out like, we gotta change this to make it buildable 1098 00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:13,650 and now it's gonna lose the impact. 1099 00:53:13,650 --> 00:53:14,670 It's not, doesn't look the same. 1100 00:53:14,670 --> 00:53:21,420 Now it, there's so much that goes into how that sign is built and then 1101 00:53:21,420 --> 00:53:26,340 designing to that, that some, a tool like that will never be able to take 1102 00:53:26,340 --> 00:53:28,770 to that level now as an ideation tool. 1103 00:53:28,770 --> 00:53:30,090 Like what you just did there, like, that's awesome. 1104 00:53:30,090 --> 00:53:33,540 Like, I could take that the creative work is done, now all I gotta do is 1105 00:53:33,540 --> 00:53:34,830 turn that into a set of drawings. 1106 00:53:34,890 --> 00:53:35,495 Right, right. 1107 00:53:35,580 --> 00:53:36,930 That just made me more efficient. 1108 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,870 It didn't necessarily steal my job. 1109 00:53:40,260 --> 00:53:43,260 It made my job easier and more efficient and. 1110 00:53:44,145 --> 00:53:46,785 You know, if that, if that design brief was in front of me for that 1111 00:53:46,785 --> 00:53:49,995 particular type of sign for that client, more than likely I would've 1112 00:53:49,995 --> 00:53:51,015 never come up with that design. 1113 00:53:51,015 --> 00:53:51,524 What it did. 1114 00:53:51,555 --> 00:53:56,265 I wouldn't have gone in that direction, but it gave me an idea or a direction that 1115 00:53:57,194 --> 00:53:58,725 is different than what I would've done. 1116 00:53:58,725 --> 00:53:59,895 And it's, and it's a good idea. 1117 00:53:59,895 --> 00:54:00,944 It's a great design. 1118 00:54:01,214 --> 00:54:03,495 And that allows me to, you know, maybe I can run with that. 1119 00:54:03,495 --> 00:54:05,205 Maybe I can do another variation of that over here. 1120 00:54:05,205 --> 00:54:10,214 And it, you know, just like you said, like it's, it's great to have this, um, 1121 00:54:10,665 --> 00:54:14,685 you know, almost like a, a a, a coder sitting right next to you all the time. 1122 00:54:14,685 --> 00:54:18,075 You can bounce ideas off of as a designer, like it, it works that way as well. 1123 00:54:18,464 --> 00:54:21,975 It'll never be able to generate a, you know, a perfect fully functional 1124 00:54:22,875 --> 00:54:26,714 website or app with, you know, the, the way that a human could, but 1125 00:54:27,105 --> 00:54:28,274 can definitely help you get there. 1126 00:54:28,395 --> 00:54:33,674 Um, and, and I, I feel like that's, I feel like that's to one degree or 1127 00:54:33,674 --> 00:54:35,475 another where it'll always be for a. 1128 00:54:36,075 --> 00:54:37,185 For professional designers. 1129 00:54:37,365 --> 00:54:37,665 Right. 1130 00:54:38,475 --> 00:54:39,165 Something like that. 1131 00:54:39,165 --> 00:54:41,279 Now, if you're talking about like a, a printed poster or a 1132 00:54:41,285 --> 00:54:42,404 banner, that's a different story. 1133 00:54:42,404 --> 00:54:44,444 It's literally just ink on a flat substrate. 1134 00:54:44,444 --> 00:54:46,424 There, there's not, there's nothing. 1135 00:54:46,424 --> 00:54:46,485 Yeah. 1136 00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:48,464 It's, it's, yeah. 1137 00:54:49,095 --> 00:54:51,915 Designers that are doing that kind of design work, I feel like should be more 1138 00:54:51,915 --> 00:54:54,645 concerned about their job than, um, 1139 00:54:54,645 --> 00:54:56,985 if you are a straight print designer, if you weren't 1140 00:54:56,985 --> 00:54:58,634 already cooked, you are cooked. 1141 00:54:59,085 --> 00:55:00,464 That's basically what Mike is saying. 1142 00:55:00,975 --> 00:55:03,194 Well, I mean, I mean, well, let's be, let's be honest here though. 1143 00:55:03,194 --> 00:55:05,924 I mean, like apps like Canva though that have been around for quite a 1144 00:55:05,924 --> 00:55:09,345 while, that, you know, they, they, they're already taking those jobs. 1145 00:55:09,495 --> 00:55:10,545 That app is already taking that job. 1146 00:55:10,545 --> 00:55:14,625 'cause now anybody with no design experience can open up Canva and, you 1147 00:55:14,625 --> 00:55:17,025 know, frankly put together a pretty nice poster design or banner design. 1148 00:55:17,025 --> 00:55:18,464 I mean, the Canva templates aren't bad. 1149 00:55:18,464 --> 00:55:21,944 It's an easy program to learn and it kind of forces you to do a decent job. 1150 00:55:22,035 --> 00:55:25,125 So, I don't know, AI is just another Canva maybe. 1151 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,130 Yeah, I mean, I mean something like this, obviously, like you mentioned, like 1152 00:55:29,250 --> 00:55:33,870 this is one of the past ones that I did, where you give it a reference photo and 1153 00:55:33,870 --> 00:55:37,049 ask it to create a channel letter sign. 1154 00:55:37,590 --> 00:55:42,029 Um, and it, you know, as far as like a concept, it, it's not bad. 1155 00:55:42,029 --> 00:55:42,630 It's not great. 1156 00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:45,509 Um, but it's phenomenal rendering 1157 00:55:45,509 --> 00:55:45,720 though. 1158 00:55:45,725 --> 00:55:46,404 I mean, they look beautiful. 1159 00:55:46,404 --> 00:55:46,605 Yeah, 1160 00:55:46,610 --> 00:55:46,770 yeah. 1161 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:47,430 Yeah. 1162 00:55:47,430 --> 00:55:51,509 And it, like upon first inspection, like unless you like zoomed into the 1163 00:55:51,509 --> 00:55:55,620 text on this door, like you would never, you'd never really know. 1164 00:55:56,730 --> 00:55:59,940 I, I guess it's not spicy, but like I don't, I don't 1165 00:55:59,940 --> 00:56:02,970 see this, it's a tool to use. 1166 00:56:02,970 --> 00:56:03,299 Right. 1167 00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:04,620 That's a different one. 1168 00:56:04,710 --> 00:56:09,120 That is a, that's a flyer that I was working with outdoors. 1169 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:09,360 But yeah. 1170 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,640 Know, that's a great example of one though, that flyer, because you would've 1171 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:16,680 never found that, that Iron Maiden, you know, Google in the background, if there's 1172 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,360 no way you could come up with that, I mean 1173 00:56:18,779 --> 00:56:19,080 Right. 1174 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:20,400 Thousands 1175 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:21,630 of dollars to hire artists to do that 1176 00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:22,860 ex Exactly. 1177 00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:23,640 Exactly. 1178 00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:30,000 NCA likes, again, by no means, I'm not saying this is like an elegant 1179 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,040 process or like it even gets it right. 1180 00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:37,860 I, I would say like the hit rate in, in my own testing now for something is probably 1181 00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:40,740 like 15, 20%, like one out of five. 1182 00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:42,870 It, it comes up with something that's usable. 1183 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:44,010 But again, that's 1184 00:56:44,010 --> 00:56:46,170 better than a, a human designer though, to be honest with you. 1185 00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:47,640 Oh, agreed. 1186 00:56:47,730 --> 00:56:51,870 You know, it's, it's a tool for creativity, I guess, because, you know, 1187 00:56:51,870 --> 00:56:57,420 again, this is, to me, this only like seeks to like enhance your own creativity 1188 00:56:57,420 --> 00:57:01,830 because now, instead of like racking your brain or, you know, going for a 1189 00:57:01,830 --> 00:57:06,330 walk and waiting for inspiration to strike, you can get, you can rapidly 1190 00:57:06,330 --> 00:57:10,080 iterate on something and obviously right, the end result is gonna be better. 1191 00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:10,590 But, 1192 00:57:11,220 --> 00:57:14,130 and, and that's, it's been great for me for that, for that purpose there, um, 1193 00:57:14,130 --> 00:57:18,420 alone, you know, another, um, area of AI that we haven't really talked about 1194 00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:21,330 a whole lot are, you know, some of the AI tools that are being built into. 1195 00:57:22,035 --> 00:57:26,235 Apps now, like Photoshop and Illustrator, um, now have, you know, 1196 00:57:26,384 --> 00:57:27,884 generative AI built right into them. 1197 00:57:28,515 --> 00:57:30,855 Photoshop in particular has been fantastic, you know, some 1198 00:57:30,855 --> 00:57:31,904 of the tools it has in there. 1199 00:57:32,325 --> 00:57:35,775 Um, you know, with, with the work that I do, I do a lot of photo renderings 1200 00:57:35,775 --> 00:57:39,765 where I take an, an image photograph of, you know, the, the building, 1201 00:57:39,765 --> 00:57:42,315 the sign is gonna be going on, or the, you know, the, the landscape or 1202 00:57:42,315 --> 00:57:43,125 the site where the sign's gonna go. 1203 00:57:43,125 --> 00:57:44,654 And then I've gotta superimpose the sign in there. 1204 00:57:45,134 --> 00:57:47,475 And, you know, anybody in the sign industry knows that survey 1205 00:57:47,475 --> 00:57:50,384 photos are usually garbage when you get 'em back from, you know, 1206 00:57:50,745 --> 00:57:51,674 whoever you sent out to take. 1207 00:57:51,674 --> 00:57:52,875 I mean, they're, they're terrible photos. 1208 00:57:52,875 --> 00:57:53,415 Yeah, they're awful. 1209 00:57:53,835 --> 00:57:58,365 And they definitely, you know, I, you've heard me preach about this a million 1210 00:57:58,365 --> 00:58:01,815 times, uh, the sales presentation, what you put in front of your customer. 1211 00:58:02,430 --> 00:58:04,020 We'll make or break that sale for you. 1212 00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:06,930 You know, not just the design of the sign in there, but the way 1213 00:58:06,930 --> 00:58:07,920 you present it to the customer. 1214 00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,980 If your drawing looks like shit, if it looks like a kindergartner put 1215 00:58:10,980 --> 00:58:14,100 that drawing presentation together and that customer's getting other 1216 00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:17,010 bids from somebody else and you know, their drawings look better, 1217 00:58:17,010 --> 00:58:18,150 they're gonna go with that customer. 1218 00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,620 So using some of these tools like AI allows me to really efficiently, 1219 00:58:22,620 --> 00:58:27,090 quickly take these crappy photographs that I get and clean 'em up and turn 1220 00:58:27,090 --> 00:58:32,670 'em into presentation ready, you know, almost beautiful images that people 1221 00:58:32,670 --> 00:58:34,290 are like, wow, that looks amazing. 1222 00:58:34,290 --> 00:58:37,350 Like, they really put some effort and some thought into this presentation. 1223 00:58:37,350 --> 00:58:39,685 They really want me to see what this, the porta 1224 00:58:39,725 --> 00:58:40,205 potty out of it, 1225 00:58:40,530 --> 00:58:40,770 right? 1226 00:58:40,770 --> 00:58:41,220 Yeah, exactly. 1227 00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:41,400 Yeah. 1228 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,810 And I do that kind of stuff all the time, right? 1229 00:58:42,810 --> 00:58:46,800 Like, I'll get pictures of like where a sign's gonna go, like where a monument 1230 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,540 sign's gonna go and, and like their, their truck is in the way, like the sign's 1231 00:58:51,540 --> 00:58:55,050 gonna go here behind the truck, but here's a picture of my F-150, like, and I've 1232 00:58:55,050 --> 00:58:58,740 had to use it to, you know, select that truck and say, remove truck and it will. 1233 00:58:59,715 --> 00:59:02,295 At first it wasn't that great, but now, I mean, I can take an image 1234 00:59:02,295 --> 00:59:05,565 that needs, would've needed hours of work that I can have it, you know, 1235 00:59:05,565 --> 00:59:09,765 looking like a professional photo photographer took it in 10 minutes. 1236 00:59:10,245 --> 00:59:15,525 And that has, my clients have seen a huge impact in business with 1237 00:59:15,525 --> 00:59:18,285 that alone, because they're closing more sales now because of that. 1238 00:59:18,705 --> 00:59:24,255 And, and it's not costing them more money for me to go to that level where, 1239 00:59:24,555 --> 00:59:27,525 you know, it's not like I'm taking money off outta my own pocket by doing 1240 00:59:27,525 --> 00:59:29,655 this, because my clients wouldn't have paid me to go to that level if 1241 00:59:29,655 --> 00:59:34,155 I had to spend, you know, three hours Photoshopping a, you know, one image 1242 00:59:34,155 --> 00:59:37,515 to make it look nice in a presentation that's not really justifiable. 1243 00:59:37,575 --> 00:59:37,815 Right. 1244 00:59:37,815 --> 00:59:38,295 Yeah, yeah. 1245 00:59:38,295 --> 00:59:39,465 It's, it's not a sole job yet. 1246 00:59:39,465 --> 00:59:42,555 I mean, they're paying me to do this design on the hope that the 1247 00:59:42,555 --> 00:59:46,035 customer's gonna buy that sign, so they're not gonna pay an extra three 1248 00:59:46,035 --> 00:59:48,285 hours for me to, you know, Photoshop the hell out of this picture. 1249 00:59:48,285 --> 00:59:53,235 But if I can do it in 10 or 15 minutes, that adds more value 1250 00:59:53,235 --> 00:59:55,545 to the work I did, and I could charge a little bit more for it. 1251 00:59:56,435 --> 00:59:58,319 And they're, they're happy to pay that. 1252 00:59:58,830 --> 01:00:01,799 And that drawing looks amazing compared to what it would've 1253 01:00:01,799 --> 01:00:02,759 looked like if I hadn't done that. 1254 01:00:02,759 --> 01:00:03,690 And then it helps 'em sell the sign. 1255 01:00:03,690 --> 01:00:06,150 So they're, they, they eat it up. 1256 01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:11,670 So it's, you know, it, it, it ripples out and affects a lot of things indirectly. 1257 01:00:11,915 --> 01:00:15,540 And, and I think, you know, looking at it through the lens of efficiency and 1258 01:00:15,540 --> 01:00:20,850 just helping you do your job, you know, better, that better serves your client 1259 01:00:20,850 --> 01:00:25,859 in the end is, I, I, I think the lens that people need to look through to 1260 01:00:25,859 --> 01:00:30,060 avoid being, you know, so terrified of it, that they just completely avoid it. 1261 01:00:30,060 --> 01:00:33,105 Because that will, you can't avoid this. 1262 01:00:33,105 --> 01:00:35,640 If you do that, you're gonna be left in the dust, unfortunately. 1263 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:36,779 Yeah. 1264 01:00:36,839 --> 01:00:40,080 Well, I, I watched like a video and like, we could start to bring this home, 'cause 1265 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:41,400 I'm gonna have to go pick up my kids soon. 1266 01:00:41,850 --> 01:00:41,970 Right. 1267 01:00:41,970 --> 01:00:44,879 But like, I watched a video of like a, it was like an 8-year-old kid, or 1268 01:00:44,879 --> 01:00:48,509 maybe it was like a 6-year-old kid and she was like prompting, she was 1269 01:00:48,509 --> 01:00:51,060 using one of the LLM like code editors. 1270 01:00:51,795 --> 01:00:54,525 And like she built her own little app, whatever she wanted. 1271 01:00:54,525 --> 01:00:55,935 It took her like 30 minutes. 1272 01:00:55,935 --> 01:00:55,995 Yeah. 1273 01:00:56,055 --> 01:01:02,625 But like, I was just fascinated with it because like that's, you know, that job 1274 01:01:02,625 --> 01:01:04,875 is obviously like, cooked in a few years. 1275 01:01:04,875 --> 01:01:07,965 Like it building X, y, Z app. 1276 01:01:08,145 --> 01:01:08,625 Um, 1277 01:01:08,895 --> 01:01:09,195 yeah. 1278 01:01:09,460 --> 01:01:10,725 But how cool is that though? 1279 01:01:10,725 --> 01:01:11,565 How, how that's Yeah. 1280 01:01:11,565 --> 01:01:14,924 Freaking amazing Is that a 6-year-old is like, I have a need for this. 1281 01:01:14,924 --> 01:01:15,195 Like, 1282 01:01:16,065 --> 01:01:16,904 oh, well, yeah. 1283 01:01:16,910 --> 01:01:21,705 It is just being able to, to now get the, as a creator, it's as mind blowing, right? 1284 01:01:21,705 --> 01:01:25,515 Because right, right now I have a tool, like I don't even have to 1285 01:01:25,515 --> 01:01:26,865 spend years learning programming. 1286 01:01:26,865 --> 01:01:30,560 I could just jump in and like start hacking together something, which is 1287 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:30,920 mm-hmm. 1288 01:01:31,330 --> 01:01:33,915 Which is why I, I think that's the best way to learn anyway. 1289 01:01:34,035 --> 01:01:36,615 But, um, yeah, it's just mind blowing. 1290 01:01:36,945 --> 01:01:38,715 Um, but I, I think that begs the question though, like, 1291 01:01:38,775 --> 01:01:41,895 like, are, are, are we humans? 1292 01:01:41,895 --> 01:01:46,125 Are we putting the emphasis, the value emphasis on the wrong part, right? 1293 01:01:46,125 --> 01:01:49,154 Like for that 6-year-old that made an app to solve a problem 1294 01:01:49,154 --> 01:01:50,565 that she identified in her life. 1295 01:01:51,555 --> 01:01:53,235 And you said that job is cooked, right? 1296 01:01:53,235 --> 01:01:56,685 Like making those apps in the future, is it, or does it just 1297 01:01:56,685 --> 01:01:58,695 create different opportunities that people need to adapt to? 1298 01:01:58,695 --> 01:02:04,965 Like, is, is that girl like, did, did that experience making that app, did 1299 01:02:04,965 --> 01:02:07,005 that eliminate a job in the future? 1300 01:02:07,005 --> 01:02:10,815 Or did that solidify in her mind that this is, this is really cool and I could, I'm 1301 01:02:10,815 --> 01:02:14,595 gonna, I'm gonna do this for a living, you know, and, and, and it planted that seed 1302 01:02:14,595 --> 01:02:18,975 in her brain that you can create things from scratch and solve problems and Right. 1303 01:02:19,890 --> 01:02:21,945 And, and the end result is what matters. 1304 01:02:21,945 --> 01:02:23,175 Not the tools you use to get there. 1305 01:02:23,205 --> 01:02:27,225 Not, not the endless lines of code that you wrote, as impressive as that all 1306 01:02:27,435 --> 01:02:28,905 is, nobody gives a shit about that. 1307 01:02:28,905 --> 01:02:31,425 They care about whether it works and whether it makes their life easier. 1308 01:02:31,485 --> 01:02:34,635 They care about whether the design brings them more business. 1309 01:02:34,635 --> 01:02:35,775 They don't care how you made it. 1310 01:02:36,765 --> 01:02:40,665 And I feel like there's a, there's a, you know, maybe we need to get 1311 01:02:40,665 --> 01:02:45,315 out of our, our own way and, and, and remove some of our ego from, uh, the 1312 01:02:45,315 --> 01:02:47,865 process of creation and creativity and. 1313 01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:52,650 And except that all that really matters is the final result. 1314 01:02:52,890 --> 01:02:53,759 Maybe, I don't know. 1315 01:02:53,819 --> 01:02:55,650 That's There's your spicy take, 1316 01:02:56,190 --> 01:02:58,319 spicy, all that matters is the result. 1317 01:02:59,549 --> 01:03:00,180 I mean, I agree. 1318 01:03:00,359 --> 01:03:05,160 Like, you know, I I, we didn't get a chance to, like, I, I, I think this is 1319 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,250 like a series, honestly, because like, like you said, it's not going away. 1320 01:03:08,790 --> 01:03:12,299 Uh, and I, I wanna figure out how to pull you back into the podcast 1321 01:03:12,299 --> 01:03:13,920 for at least some of these episodes. 1322 01:03:14,339 --> 01:03:19,890 So I, but the, I, we didn't get a chance to talk about like, the other ways to 1323 01:03:19,890 --> 01:03:25,620 use this, but like, you know, there's so many different applications and Yeah, 1324 01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,390 I, I think, hey, like the things that I've learned, like working in the tech 1325 01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:34,950 space over the, the last year and a half, you definitely wanna talk about it. 1326 01:03:35,279 --> 01:03:39,299 Um, but yeah, I, I don't know where I'm going here. 1327 01:03:39,540 --> 01:03:40,799 Well, let's do a part two then. 1328 01:03:40,799 --> 01:03:42,120 I mean, part two, 1329 01:03:42,120 --> 01:03:42,750 he's committed. 1330 01:03:42,750 --> 01:03:43,589 We're doing a part two. 1331 01:03:43,710 --> 01:03:43,890 Yeah. 1332 01:03:43,890 --> 01:03:44,160 Love it. 1333 01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:46,319 Get Peter back on here and he can. 1334 01:03:47,385 --> 01:03:51,495 Talk about how AI is helping fast signs franchisees, 1335 01:03:53,205 --> 01:03:53,355 sorry. 1336 01:03:54,700 --> 01:03:55,700 Couldn't help it. 1337 01:03:56,865 --> 01:03:58,365 I had to get my jab in on fast signs. 1338 01:03:58,365 --> 01:03:58,785 I just 1339 01:03:59,115 --> 01:04:00,075 fast signs. 1340 01:04:00,075 --> 01:04:00,405 Okay. 1341 01:04:01,275 --> 01:04:04,245 Getting the, the cease and desist letters from the franchisees. 1342 01:04:04,245 --> 01:04:07,845 Now, I, I mean, personally, like I, I'm using it to do the shit that I really 1343 01:04:07,845 --> 01:04:11,475 don't want to do, like, you know, like, write a description for this 1344 01:04:11,475 --> 01:04:13,125 podcast, probably like I'm gonna, yeah. 1345 01:04:13,545 --> 01:04:17,655 There's an AI that I'm going to use to, well, actually the, the, the 1346 01:04:17,655 --> 01:04:20,625 platform that we're using Riverside will spit out a transcript for me. 1347 01:04:20,625 --> 01:04:23,295 Now I'm gonna throw that into Claude and I'm gonna say. 1348 01:04:23,970 --> 01:04:29,790 Write summary for this based on, uh, is like this format that we've used 1349 01:04:29,790 --> 01:04:32,580 in the past, and it's gonna take 30 seconds and I'm gonna be done with it 1350 01:04:32,580 --> 01:04:33,959 and I can move on to the next thing. 1351 01:04:34,109 --> 01:04:36,810 So yeah, lots of things like that. 1352 01:04:36,810 --> 01:04:37,799 We'll, we'll revisit. 1353 01:04:38,730 --> 01:04:42,720 Um, well we got the, the existential, you know, dread part of the conversation 1354 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:43,980 outta the way today at least. 1355 01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:48,629 So we can actually get down to the, you know, the bare, the bare bones. 1356 01:04:49,259 --> 01:04:49,529 Okay. 1357 01:04:49,770 --> 01:04:50,100 All right. 1358 01:04:50,399 --> 01:04:53,669 We'll, do we wanna save the, let's save the Terminator shit 1359 01:04:53,669 --> 01:04:54,959 for the end of the next one, then 1360 01:04:57,359 --> 01:04:58,049 we'll be back. 1361 01:04:58,950 --> 01:05:00,629 I takeaways. 1362 01:05:00,990 --> 01:05:02,700 I don't, do we have any takeaways? 1363 01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:03,990 Don't be scared. 1364 01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:05,279 Yeah, I was gonna say like, I think 1365 01:05:05,279 --> 01:05:05,910 that's the only one. 1366 01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:08,759 Like if you're not, what you don't understand, 1367 01:05:09,509 --> 01:05:12,569 you, if you're in the sign industry, and even if you're a designer, you don't 1368 01:05:12,569 --> 01:05:16,259 have to run out and start a plumbing business or get a plumbing job just yet. 1369 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:19,649 Um, you know, we got some runway. 1370 01:05:20,415 --> 01:05:26,535 But back to my spicy take, this thing is, is getting better at a crazy rate. 1371 01:05:26,535 --> 01:05:30,885 So yeah, these predictions may not age well, 1372 01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:36,405 but, but I think like it's safe to say, don't, don't sit on this and 1373 01:05:36,405 --> 01:05:40,185 don't just write it out and think it's gonna go away because it's, the chances 1374 01:05:40,185 --> 01:05:41,595 of that happening are slim to none. 1375 01:05:41,625 --> 01:05:44,880 I think at this point, we all have to embrace it or be, 1376 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,395 well as soon as Apple releases 1377 01:05:46,395 --> 01:05:51,825 the update where like the AI is ubiquitous into the iPhone, where mm-hmm. 1378 01:05:51,825 --> 01:05:55,995 You know, like it, it will write a text message to my wife explaining why I 1379 01:05:55,995 --> 01:05:58,005 spent too long on the podcast for me. 1380 01:05:58,455 --> 01:06:02,175 Like, we will, it, it's not going away at that point. 1381 01:06:02,175 --> 01:06:02,385 Yeah. 1382 01:06:02,445 --> 01:06:02,985 No. 1383 01:06:03,075 --> 01:06:03,375 Mm-hmm. 1384 01:06:03,435 --> 01:06:06,195 I, I'm addicted to, I'm not addicted to it. 1385 01:06:06,195 --> 01:06:10,365 I'm, I'm just, I can't imagine going through a day without 1386 01:06:10,365 --> 01:06:11,325 using it at this point. 1387 01:06:11,415 --> 01:06:15,135 It's just, it's become as commonplace in my life as Google. 1388 01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,945 And, and I think it will continue to do that for everybody as time goes on. 1389 01:06:19,035 --> 01:06:21,285 So to be continued, part two coming soon to be 1390 01:06:21,285 --> 01:06:21,795 continued. 1391 01:06:22,635 --> 01:06:27,285 If you are interested in joining the podcast as a guest, make sure you 1392 01:06:27,285 --> 01:06:31,095 hit us up at hey@bettersignshop.com. 1393 01:06:31,635 --> 01:06:35,115 Uh, we'd love to have you on, uh, if you're a sign shop owner, 1394 01:06:35,685 --> 01:06:36,945 you've got an interesting story. 1395 01:06:37,335 --> 01:06:40,965 We'd love to tell interesting stories, uh, aside from just rambling on. 1396 01:06:41,175 --> 01:06:42,705 So definitely do that. 1397 01:06:42,705 --> 01:06:42,915 We love to do that too. 1398 01:06:43,545 --> 01:06:49,605 And make sure that you hop onto the Facebook community, uh, that is just the 1399 01:06:49,875 --> 01:06:51,915 Better Sign Shop community on Facebook. 1400 01:06:52,665 --> 01:06:55,515 Exclusive community for side shop owners. 1401 01:06:55,935 --> 01:06:56,325 That's it. 1402 01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,140 We'll catch you on the next episode. 1403 01:06:59,490 --> 01:07:02,880 If you liked this episode, make sure you hit subscribe to get all 1404 01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,680 the latest episodes and check out our website, better sign shop.com. 1405 01:07:08,310 --> 01:07:11,610 Get free resources and helpful tools on growing your shop. 1406 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:12,990 Thanks for listening.