George (00:11.737)
Ladies and gentlemen, we're live. Welcome back to the True Life podcast. Hope you're all having a beautiful day, a morning, evening, wherever you're listening to this at. Thanks for being here today. Got an amazing guest, a philosopher, a psychonaut, individual who's really found a way to make the best of their life through adversity, through tragedy, through joy and love. The one and only Adam Butler. Adam, thanks for being here today, man. How are you?

Adam Butler (00:12.427)
Very good man, I think we're live.

Adam Butler (00:42.507)
I'm excited. Thanks for having me back. You are one of the individuals that I always get excited to talk about. Well, talk with, I should say. So, I'm excited to get into this.

George (00:47.063)
Yeah, man.

George (00:55.053)
Yeah man, it's gonna be epic. I'm super stoked that we're here hanging out. I wanna give people a quick preview of this incredible new book that you put out there, The Alchemist of Tears. And I just wanna run through some photographs, as I was reading it, and if you're listening to this right now, check out the book, The Alchemist of Tears by Adam Butler. I wanna do a quick preview of this book. Man, some of the images in there, they made me cry a little bit. Some of them fucking made me roll on the floor laughing.

So I just want to give people a quick preview. I don't want to give away the whole stuff here, but I got a few pictures that I'd like you to address. So let's jump into that over here. Okay.

me come.

George (01:42.979)
So as I'm checking this out, Adam, maybe you can set this up. How did this book kind of come about? Maybe you can tell me like what inspired it or what's going on here?

Adam Butler (01:55.521)
So this is kind of the follow-up of my first book, Butler's DMT Field Guide, and that really was the book that I said I never thought that I would write or the topic that I would be speaking on behalf of. And I'd be more than happy to get into that story. I know we covered most of that on the first episode, but bullet point, at 40 years old in essence, I had my midlife crisis, and I had to recalibrate absolutely everything in my life. And in retrospect, it's...

Five years into this journey, can kind of say it's easy for me to look back and say, well, I was a drunk, narcissistic, belligerent asshole, 40 pounds overweight, treated everybody like shit. I lost multiple relationships, quit, all got fired from multiple high paying jobs. I threatened to kill a man. I lost everything. And part of my regrowth journey, transformational journey was I went deep into psychedelic shrooms for several months and really did that inner shadow work.

And then I started getting into DMT, which opened up just an expansive way of thinking and kind of elevated consciousness. Then that led to basically me spending a year and a half living out of my car, living on the road. I went to 40 plus states and you know, there's a picture in there of my roadmap from 2022 where I just said, fuck it and pieced out. And on a Sunday night, I got into a fight with that gentleman who I mentioned I threatened to kill. And I can get into the details of it.

And again, in retrospect, if I were to meet him again, I'd shake his hand and ask for forgiveness. You know, these are all things that, and that time I was really triggered. but that happened on a Sunday night, Monday morning, I woke up with a backpack and said, I'm driving up to California to hug a redwood tree. And that was my only plan. and then basically these pictures and not that they're all from that year and a half period, but a lot of these, these pictures were taken, you know, when I was on the road for those transformative times. And then I asked her sit with, I came back.

I wrote the DMT field guide that was three years ago now. you know, I've been on 70 plus podcasts. The book is doing great. I've had all of these expensive things happened. I've gone to the Monroe Institute, darkness retreat, all that crap, right? Thinking that, all right, well, I'm beyond kind of the, the real trauma of my life, so to speak. and then pretty much just in this, this book just came out two weeks ago, a month ago is when I had just a whole crumbling of my life of trauma and

Adam Butler (04:19.633)
I'll pass it over to you after this but after pretty much this book was published, created, fabricated in less than a week. I didn't sleep, I cried buckets and buckets of tears and this truly is the alchemization of a bunch of crap that I really really never thought I would be dealing with after writing the book that I never thought I'd be dealing with. So yeah this is like a know cherry on top of the cherry.

George (04:46.489)
Alright, let me flip this right over here. Man, there's so much in there and I want to get into some... We're gonna get into it today, man, but you fucking threaten to kill a guy. Like, Jesus Christ, like, over $900, man.

Adam Butler (04:58.793)
over 900 bucks over 900 bucks when I was making yeah, I was making shit tons of money but so it was well and here's this kind of dichotomy of it it was my hurt ego it was my you know little boy kind of coming out being like how dare you whatever and so there was that recognition of that there's a better way to channel your emotions to kind of take a step back take a breath and

George (05:06.91)
And yeah, go ahead.

Adam Butler (05:27.829)
You know, there's To threaten somebody it's certainly not 900 bucks that being said the disagreement was based on integrity character honesty truthfulness and And it's funny because I just actually had a meeting with the owner of that company a couple days ago and I hadn't talked to him in years because I was like listen there's some kind of loose ends I just want to kind of clarify and You know long story short

I'm going to die on the mountain of integrity and character. And I know that I probably won't be able to work in another business. I won't be able to have normal type relationships. I won't be able to interact in society in a normal way because I won't tolerate anything other than integrity, character, honest conversation, truthfulness, authenticity, not only from myself, but everybody that I interact with. So.

As much as I regret that action and I would do it differently and I'm sorry that I threatened to kill a man and it cost me damn near everything including almost my life. But the principles behind it I stand by and that's something that I'm sure by the end of our conversation will lead into that grace of God, that connection to source, that alignment with self which we all have to find and it's gonna be different for each person but once you find it there's nothing that'll knock you off of it.

I'm, I'm, you know, I have... I don't want to say regrets. I would have done things maybe differently, but I stand by the principles on why I stood up for myself. Because don't be a fucking rat and take 900 bucks from me. I don't know, like, you know, I mean, because you do that in the street, you get shot. Like, or you do that, you know what mean? That's kind one of those, no, that's, or, or, 2000 years ago, you did that in a cave and you got bludgeoned with a rock. Like, you can't do that shit. So, anyway. But, yeah, so...

George (07:02.305)
Heheheheh!

George (07:17.197)
Yeah, I think it speaks. Go ahead.

Adam Butler (07:20.351)
No, that's kind of the story of my life is that I've truly lost everything because I won't tolerate anything but what I think is authentic and true and raw. And I give the grace and space for other people to have a difference of opinion so it's not just like, everybody has to agree with me. But yeah, that's made my social circle very, very small. Which is why I love you. Because I think you have that same bullshit filter because you've had...

you know not only have you seen kinda god or or truly you know that the terror before the sacred you so you've you've seen both you've experienced a terrible you've had the sacred and you need that dichotomy to be able to truly appreciate what we have in this human life

George (07:56.729)
Yeah.

George (08:06.733)
Yeah, man. I have had that instance before. Particularly the instance of losing everything or what I thought was everything. You know, when you get to a point and you think you have all these things, whether it's a good job or maybe it's a marriage or whatever it is, that thing that you thought was everything. And then it's, I hesitate to say it's taken away from you because it's your own actions that allowed that thing to be.

be gone. I have found, Adam, that it is, I have found that it is that actual taking away of the illusion that allows you to become who you're fucking supposed to be. When you stop, when you stop trying to be the person that you want to be and start being the person that you're supposed to be, sometimes that only comes when all the bullshit is stripped away, whether it's through an action of threatening someone or

in my case threatening a company and but but it's that aspect of it and i gotta i we got jesse chiming in over here let's bring in jesse real fast to see what she's got to say over here jesse hang on i'm bringing you in

George (09:23.001)
Let's see. Did I bring her in over here? Jesse, try to chime in again. I think I didn't bring you in accurately, but yeah, Adam, I agree 100%. And it is the idea of losing everything that allows you to start living. It's kind of crazy to think about that, right? Like you have to almost lose everything. It's almost like the ritual they talk about, like in Joseph Campbell, or if you read or listen to some indigenous wisdom, it's this idea of losing yourself to become yourself. What are your thoughts on that?

Adam Butler (09:40.125)
Yeah. Wha-

Adam Butler (09:53.9)
Yeah, I'd love to expand on that because I think that really is the crux of what society needs right now. And I think there's a few ways of looking at it.

George (10:02.339)
Okay.

Adam Butler (10:03.531)
Yes, you you have to do that that inner work and look within and I think that begins with first off knowing that you're worthy of taking the time for yourself and there's so many people that really just don't don't believe that that they don't think that they're beautiful wonderful worthy that they are divine that that you know that they should take the time for themselves so that that's kind of first and foremost and that and that means Even sometimes taking away from being a parent or an employee or whatever like you have to take that time for yourself and I use the analogy all the time about

plaque removal and how you know over time I think just society builds up plaque on us and whether it be self limitations whether it be past trauma whether it be

Just survival methods. I think we all can get bogged down and I know that's what happened to me at 40 years old where I just spent 25 years of my life shoveling shit under the rug and you know, I had everything on paper. I had all of the successes and that was kind of how I was able to mask it with alcohol and with whatever and then it finally came up where I had to re-, you know, I had to really look myself in the eye and take ownership of all the crap that had gone wrong in my life. But part of that is that removal of that plaque and some of it is proverbial.

And I think some of it is is actual literal and there are mechanisms for removing that plaque now in my case It was kind of trauma slash psychedelics that really kind of shook that up, but for other people it could be a near-death experience It could be you know coming out of a coma it could be going to the Monroe Institute I mentioned I just came back from a darkness retreat You know you can have some incredible plaque removal if you sit in the darkness for five plus days But I think there's a two-fold action to that once that that plaque

George (11:36.45)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (11:44.672)
is kind of removed you're able to express yourself creatively you're able to admit love and light and energy and really be able to express yourself truly but you're also able to receive it from other people from that divine source from others and it just becomes this beautiful energetic kind of resonation resonance with

like tones again like people like you and I being able to just kind of resonate instantly when we met and that plaque removal has to happen somehow some way but the first step is knowing that hey maybe I have some plaque and it needs to be removed and then the modality of how that gets removed is really the topic that I'd like to explore because I know you and I are very comfortable talking about psychedelics but you know truth is psychedelics are definitely not for everybody DMT is certainly not for everybody but

Achieving your potential knowing that you're more than your human body Knowing that there is this kind of divine grace out there to tap into that is for everybody and that's why I was really happy to listen to the episode with dr. Susie Ross, maybe you just kind of you know on past because she recounts this beautiful story of you know walking in the mountains with you know, a group of kids and all of a sudden she had this transcendent transformational enlightening experience where she basically tapped into to God and you'd hear that experience and

George (12:45.689)
She's brilliant.

Adam Butler (13:00.451)
And unless you've had it you'd be like what what is she talking about like that is so far-fetched to the person that hasn't experienced it or when I talk about going deep into these DMT spaces and Again, I'm really excited to recount a story that I had recently where I really did interact with with God and I can explain it in them and I think a beautiful way that is similar to hers, but there's there's so many other ways of Or so many other and you've had them on your show of people

sharing very similar stories of tapping into something greater than themselves and then realizing that once you tap into that that that's always there and You saw the sparkle in her eye when she was talking about that epiphany moment where I was like, like yes This is this is what my PhD is gonna be and I'm gonna dedicate my life and I've been asked recently multiple times like, know Kind of what is your purpose or why are you doing this or you know, and I'm starting a nonprofit So I'm starting conversations with a lot of groups of people about you know what my intentions are and it's

George (13:40.59)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (13:57.248)
So clear-cut and so easy and it's like I almost want to like vomit it out before they even finish the question And it's just like I just want to help people suffering with mental health illness and suicide ideation I just want to I just want to help the people that were in the dark shitty places that I was and

A really awesome part of my story that I didn't even think would happen was when I wrote this book, you know, and I have a chapter in there about Transcendental Sex Art and Science, and I talk about all of these kind of, you know, awesome interactions with DMT entities. And there is some sensationalized stories there that I love to get into. And that is a beautiful aspect of doing psychedelics. And let's not negate the beauty of it. That being said,

What's happened over the past few years are I have not turned into the DMT specialist guy. There are people like that. There's the Rick Strossman's and the Andrew Gallimaw's and the Hamilton Morris. No, even not like my buddy Danny Gola. He's done DMT thousands of times. those are, you know, I don't want to say the experts, but they've done it way more than I. What I've really leaned into over the past years and really probably over the past like six months is being this authentic vessel for people.

George (14:52.441)
Yeah, that guy's awesome.

Adam Butler (15:06.879)
to be seen to be heard to be felt to be loved to be to be truly interacted with as a human when they haven't been getting that from society and i'm not saying this in a in a bragging way if anything i'm saying this because if people think that their voice isn't important or that you know they can't write a book or that they shouldn't do a podcast or they shouldn't write an article yes yes yes and yes you should because i know i'm not the the greatest author or my words are the most poetic

But I have dozens and dozens, if not now, maybe a hundred or more of emails, heartfelt phone calls, voice messages from people saying, Adam, your words truly helped me not kill myself. Like I woke up and I was going to today was going to be my last day. And I asked for a message and your podcast came on or I read something and it hit me perfect. Or in my case, I resonate a lot with alcoholics on five years sober from alcohol. lot of middle aged men have lost everything because of alcohol. I'm able to talk to the.

these guys in a way that really is helpful and that so that shifted my entire kind of writing style what I plan on doing and you know to the people that are listening you know I sent you that group text like I'd love to get on stage with you with our friend Mia with our friend Tanya to talk about beauty and grief alchemist of tears terror before the sacred you know these types of concepts that

psychedelics and not are relevant to everybody and we be we need to be able to talk about hard stuff and Because it can be transformative and it can be beautiful and you can Alchemize it into an amazing life Not not an amazing life without bullshit and crap going wrong and people screwing you over that will happen it's how you it's how you interact with it and

In my case, you know I turned from being so uncomfortable in my own skin that I wanted to not only off myself But kind of take out society with me to now I'm so comfortable in my own skin I don't want to be anywhere else exactly with where I am right now and every day is full of goosebumps elated bliss connection with sauce and interactions with Incredibly awesome people and I only do what I want to do now that may sound kind of like childish and like well good for you But that has everybody can do that

Adam Butler (17:16.757)
because you just don't tolerate shit in your life. And it's so liberating and so freeing and that's the message I really want to share.

George (17:26.765)
Nice, we got some people chiming in, talking about the purpose of life. You know, let me ask you this though, Adam. Are you sure you want to do that? Getting that many phone calls from people that are thinking about suicide, that's a pretty big wrap to put on yourself, man. That is no joke. When you start having people call you and say things like, hey man, you saved my life, or hey man, I was thinking about killing myself.

Adam Butler (17:33.899)
Ahem.

Adam Butler (17:40.503)
Thank

Adam Butler (17:45.271)
Here it is.

George (17:56.707)
You know, and I can see how that could be welcoming and inspiring and you could be grateful for that. But what about the responsibility of that? Like how do you hold the responsibility of a hundred people calling you and saying, thanks man, I thought I was going to take my life. Like that seems like it could be a slippery slope to me, man. How do you deal with that?

Adam Butler (18:06.315)
Hmm.

Adam Butler (18:18.689)
humbly, carefully, and maybe in my life, I've lost everything in my life. So I have nothing else. Like don't have a wife, I don't have a family, I don't have kids, I don't have really a job anymore. don't, like I live still kind of out of my car and in my parents basement. And so I've truly, I've dedicated my life to this because I've...

And it's not like because I've got nothing else, but it's this time I'm in a unique position where I can dedicate my time and energy and I'm not taking away from other people that being said My plan is is not my plan. I know that I don't have all the answers to fix somebody but what I say I can do is just I can give you five minutes or an hour or two hours of my time to listen to you and and I can I think I can give you the reason to stay on this planet for another hour or another 24 hours or another day or another two and in that time

I have references that I can share so I've got a large Really? Actually I say a large how I said my social circle has been minimized the people in it are the type of people that can help so I've got I've got personal friends that offer their cell phone 24-7 to reach out to people and whether they be the Hispanic brown-skinned middleman or whether they be the pretty middle-aged woman or whether they be the old seven-year-old man or whether they be that the College kid I've got people in my social circle that can help all of those groups and then more importantly it's connected to the

The dots to the right people, you know, it's not hey, I think I can fix it all it's more importantly I'll listen you're not alone You don't have to go through this alone and there's a bunch of people that will instantly, know gravitate to to help you and I think that's that will keep them Hopefully with with hope to get through to the next day and then when they talk to my friends like you or my my friends You know treblaze Garcia has this awesome podcast out and I've been on the show a couple times. I've got a friend

Dr. Bria who works with the Mass Department of Health as like the main suicide prevention coordinator So these are people that have that there this is what they do and actually that lady Bria I'd like to invite to our you know, right is guilt because she's just an amazing resource but you know, so like I'm writing a kid's book on suicide prevention and

Adam Butler (20:29.781)
That's like those are the type of people that I'm gonna partner it. So it's not like I've got it all figured out It's like no I'm I'm collecting with a whole group of people that have that each have a little piece of the puzzle And I think as a creative author and as somebody that can take complex content and kind of break it down That's what my role now is And do psychedelics and do all the fun shit and travel and do all that funky stuff, too But with you know, not with the just hey, let's go see fun shit. It really is my my empathy

radar or my empathy sensitivity is so off the charts that I can't ignore the pain and the darkness that people have and they can't hide it. know, like you could put a bandaid over a physical wound, you can't put a bandaid over a psychological wound and I see those in people and I just want to hug them and help them because I know how painful it is to wallow in that shit.

George (21:23.063)
Yeah, in your book you had mentioned, you spoke a bit about a mirror. I couldn't help just pulling that thread and, you know, I applied that same idea of the mirror to my life. And when you look at people and you see those things, when you see the pain or you see the grief or you see the elation or the joy, what you're really seeing is a reflection of yourself in those people, you know, and in some ways there might be some transference there, but, you know, once you

Adam Butler (21:47.991)
Absolutely.

George (21:52.193)
Once you go through pains like you've been through or so many people listening to this, you see it in other people. And I think that's the right feeling is that you want to reach out and try to help those people. It's interesting, man. I see so much negativity on the news and in culture. Yeah, go ahead.

Adam Butler (22:07.082)
And can I?

Adam Butler (22:11.547)
I was gonna say it was so easy for me to judge and I mentioned that kind of bullet pointed in the DMT field guide how I really, know, I was the rich white educated kid from New England that had everything. I got gifted a big sum of money to stop businesses. I had all of the advantages and it's...

Not to say that I would I would walk through society and judge people or think people were lesser than but I always had this this air of arrogance or cockiness to be like well I'm making 200 grand I own all of this and I'm with the hot woman and I've got and I I just had this very Really false sense of self insecurity and in a heartbeat all of that got the gut taken away and and you know up until even just a couple months ago I thought I had security again and that that all got taken away

So part of this journey really was humility where I was able to walk on the streets with homeless people that had holes in their socks and smelled like piss and not only would I not walk away from them, I would walk up to them, start a conversation with them, hug them, share my joint with them, buy them a sandwich, let them know that they're human and then like, you laugh but man, like there was this one guy in California, he was just sitting in a doorway and we made everybody, you know, by and they won't even look at him. Like he's not even a fucking human.

So I stop and say, know, hello, how are you? We have the short a little interchange in it and I just said I love you brother and I walked away and you saw him be like No one's had that no one's even said hi to the guy probably, you Like one out of every 50 people even acknowledge him and just for somebody to look at him dead in the soul and for me to mean it Because he saw my pain he saw me maybe with my fancy shoes and me getting out of my Audi s5 But he saw that I was just as broke as he was and it's like that's that's where that that filter got taken away from me where

And not to say that I don't, you know, I know that there are hierarchical levels in society and I'm not naive to think like, well, we all have to be equal, but we are all human and we all deserve to be loved and to be seen and to be heard. you know, and this is where I'm really sensitive to the people that, so I got alcohol out of my life five years ago and that really is a massive part of my transformation. But up until 40 years old, I was

Adam Butler (24:28.783)
So bogged down with plaque. I was so just I was horrible and I treated everybody like shit and whether You know, whatever is is bogging people down and at whatever age, know, the story is that you really can get that that spark of life again and and Yeah, you just yeah, you have to know that that's that is what the true joy of life is is to to

Be comfortable in your own skin, know that, and to really do that inner work, to seek self-knowledge, which then will lead to self-love. And then once you have self-love, that naturally expands to other people around you. And life just becomes this collaborative dance of collaboration and synergistic relationships, not hoarding of resources and putting people down in competition. It's just a better way to live. But you have to get out of your own way and stop banging your head against the wall and stop thinking everybody is, you know.

against you like I did.

George (25:29.047)
Yeah, I think society indoctrinates people into that system of competition. Like if you listen to Krishnamurti, like that guy talks about competition being one of the worst things out there. But it's difficult for me to understand because, you know, I have a drive to be the best. Like I want to dominate, you know, and I want to be the best at some things and that gets in the way of my relationship sometimes. So it

Adam Butler (25:56.599)
Ahem.

George (25:57.441)
On some level we do need that drive though, don't we? I realize there's a line you don't want to cross. You don't want to be the guy that just shits on everybody and sees people as numbers and stuff like that. But how do you balance that? How do you maintain that drive of becoming the best person you can possibly be and getting rid of competition? Is there a way to do that? Or do they live synergistically? How does that work, you think?

Adam Butler (26:25.525)
think it starts with really being comfortable 100 % in your own skin, being aligned 100 % in your own faith. And then, you know, like maybe a perfect example in my life right now. So, you know, we're both part of the psychedelic states of America, that this Psychedelic Writers Guild, a really great group of people. so, I mentioned this kind of bus and his chops on the call, which hopefully he'll be on this Friday too. Noah Daley, how he's editing my articles, right?

George (26:42.466)
Yeah.

George (26:52.506)
yeah.

Adam Butler (26:55.465)
I consider myself a really good author. I've sold thousands of copies, 15 countries. you know, like I, my work is, I think I'm a good author, but it's a different writing style from being a book author, from being an article writer and from being like short form pointed. And that's what he's an expert in. Like he, I mean, he went to college for that. That's what he has his degree in. He's, you know, he's got published articles all over the place. Like he, really is the person that I should be able to take constructive criticism from. And

George (27:01.133)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (27:23.467)
The first article I got back, had like 200 edits. I'm like, what the fuck? My whole book, my first book didn't have that many. So I gave it back with the edits, then it came back with like 100 edits. And I'm like, wow, all right. And then it came back with like 50 edits. And then the second article, which is coming out next week, it's kind of like the same thing. But throughout the whole process, every comment he made was dead on right. There was no condescending. It was only trying to make my work better.

You know, and it was that kind of collaborative effort where like, do I want to be the best writer? Yes. And, you're an author and you write books. So would I, do I consider you competition? No, I consider you, if anything, if I give my work to you, you can edit it. You can give me feedback. We can work collaboratively. Maybe you can write a prologue for my book. I can write a prologue for your book. There is no competition in my space because no one can be Adam Butler. And I think maybe that's part of the message too about being comfortable in your own skin where...

So many people are trying to be like the second best somebody else whatever the second Taylor Swift or the second best whatever Tom Brady or Or like in my case again I am NOT gonna be the Rick Strossman or the Andrew Gallimore's or the or the Danny Gollars They don't have but they're also they're not gonna have my story with my colorful history and not to say like I hate to tell you but like Put my narrative against like anybody in that block and I only share a slice. I'm sharing like the iceberg

George (28:24.611)
Right.

Adam Butler (28:47.797)
I mean the tip of my iceberg when I tell you like there's so much more depth and weirdness under even the shit that I share Where it's like cool. I'll take my story because I've got a lot going on that I don't need to try to act like them so and even even with and Part of the story we'll get into this so I just got out of a four-year relationship and that that's part of the alchemizing the tears and that was a Horrible thing. I I truly lost my best friend and all of that shit but now being back in kind of like a single life and being in this dating scene I

Like I know that 99 % of the women I am not for. Like I am not the guy that you're gonna marry, have kids with, you definitely don't wanna take me home to your parents. don't, like I'm living in my parents' basement, I have no money to share with you, I'm not the guy that's gonna buy you fancy shit. and that's not me real ragging on myself, but I know for that 1 % of the, like I am the perfect woman. I have the intellectual curiosity, I've got the background, like and whatever, and I'm not gonna try to be like, look at what I got here, but.

I don't feel like this competition. I feel like the person that will see me for who I really am will think I'm fucking awesome because I am and I will only be with them if I think they're awesome because they are and that's where it's not like, that guy has bigger muscles than me or he's a tall handsome Abercrombie model or fuck I'm 46 and got a white beard and he's 32 and jacked. It doesn't matter because the person that's looking for me will find me and be like, that's it.

And it's easy for me to say, like, how do you see perfection like that? Or how do you think somebody would see me like that? Well, and this is where I love your story. It's the way you told me you look at small children or babies, and especially after some of the shit that you went through, not the shit, some of the beauty that made your transformation happen, where it's like, you look at every child and there's just divine perfection. You look at a flower, you look at nature, you look at bugs, you look at...

You know, and I have this awesome story about how the last time I to the airport, I locked eyes for like 10 minutes with this six month old little chubby baby boy. And it was, it was to the point where his dad was holding him and every time his dad tried to move, like the kids, like the head would swivel. So then his mom tried to get in front and like the, then like it was, it happened for so long where then it started talking to the dad, then the mom, then the little sister. And I just felt so privileged and so honored that that little boy,

Adam Butler (31:11.881)
at six months old saw my divine connection to God and he saw me and my perfection as this funny gnarly tattooed bearded guy sitting next to him in the airport and I saw in him that divine connection he was still so close to source and it was fucking awesome and I think this is where again a practical application of what it means to go through what I'm talking about I would I would bet so it was a mom dad like an eight-year-old sister and then this little baby boy

Most people would be like, I hope they don't sit next to me that kid's probably gonna cry or what the fuck They've got a carriage next to him or maybe the kids gonna smell like shit or he's gonna puke or like most people would be like a family with a little kid where I I leaned into it was like man if I could lock eyes and then I did and You know, and so now this is like the third podcast. I've talked about it I still think about that little dude like in my fucking dreams when I say my prayers and it's that's That's where if everybody just had that sense of self

But then saw that in others, but then also called out the bullshit when it needed to be called out and had that authenticity and integrity filter. That is, think that next level of human evolution that I think is possible once we have all of this shit come about. yeah, we just step levels of philosophy there, but that's really the big picture is to stand in there and not be like, little baby, that's going to cry and smell like shit. It's like, no, look into the soul of that beautiful divine source.

Adam Butler (32:38.359)
So yeah, that's what comes with plaque removal.

George (32:40.529)
I think most people are like that, man. I want to believe, yeah, I want to believe most people are like that. We have these sort of walls that we put up, but you put someone next to a brand new baby, I think that that comes out. You can't be that close to something so beautiful and be a total asshole. I'm sure there people that are, but go ahead.

Adam Butler (33:02.391)
Yeah, but

If all you're thinking about is taxes and bills and shit is my wife gonna catch me cheating and where's my next line of coke coming from and like that's it maybe it's easy for you because we have clarity of thought and we have sense of self but I think again that that's a big problem society is that everybody's well not everybody a lot of people are masking it with alcohol with prescription pills with with running from from you know truly doing that inner work with themselves

George (33:11.179)
Yeah.

George (33:33.891)
Yeah, this brings up an interesting point that I've been thinking about lately. And I see it in psychedelics and I know maybe we'll talk about it in the Writers Guild today, but there's this thing happening not only in psychedelics, but in the world around us. And it seems to be a gap between competence and authority. You know what I mean by that? Like sometimes in the natural world, the most competent person is often the leader.

Adam Butler (33:57.079)
Ahem.

George (34:02.777)
But when you look at the world of structure like business or education, it's not always the case. know, a lot of the times there's people that are authority, that are not that competent. They don't have the experience. For you, for me, for so many people we know that have built a real lasting relationship with psychedelics, they're really, really competent. But it seems the people pushing to be authority figures, like there's lots of people in psychedelics that have never even done psychedelics.

What are your thoughts on that competence versus authority gap in the world of psychedelics?

Adam Butler (34:39.325)
And I think maybe we have to put in morality or the concept of morality because I know that's a personal concept and it will be different for each but I think maybe that ties in that that concept of some sort of universal truth or some sort of Like hey, there should be something we should be all be able to to agree upon but yeah, I think that that's a problem of society at whole is that People get rewarded for being pieces of shit. Like I mean, I hate to say it like people people well

George (35:01.539)
Yeah.

George (35:07.468)
They do.

Adam Butler (35:07.585)
people get rewarded for stealing, lying, cheating, for deceiving, or, and maybe not even, and this is where, as I have trust crossed out of my hand and how I just like, again, say how had my heart broke from getting out of a four year relationship and how I just met with the boss a couple days ago who fired me from two years ago, and I can say that all kind of with a straight, not mad at him and not crying because of her, because.

I give people the space to change their opinion or for them to be able to move or shift or have a dynamic thought or for something in their life to kind of kind of move or whatever but Yeah, you know unfortunately people society rewards What I would consider negative or dark or shitty behavior and and it leads to again the conversation I just had with that that gentleman so

who owned the company so it was 50 50 owners of the company that I work for one of those owners as the one that screwed me over so I was talking to the other side of the owner to kind of be like you know hip just again am I missing something and it really came back to no you weren't missing something he did steal from you and I did actually get compensated for what I was thought stolen from me but this guy's advice to me and it's honest advice so he's a he's still a family friend I really feel as though he has my best interest in line like I don't

I don't think he was, you know, trying to fluff me up, but he's a hardened businessman, multi-millionaire, owns multiple businesses. And that's when he was just like, Adam, society is not ready for somebody that will be a hundred percent authentic, honest and true and integrity and all of that. pretty much he was like, you need to make the decision of, know, will be continued to be ostracized and continue to be the black sheep. And you will kind of have to walk this lone wolf path. If that is what you are gonna.

once again bear your flag on if you truly are going to be this guy and The answer is yes I'm I am going to be that guy and because I feel like I have no choice and this is where Maybe if somebody could have an equivalent of this where it just becomes so easy So beyond just yeah, everybody should always act like they're on camera and they're being recorded right like just simple stuff So don't do shit that you're ashamed of or don't do shit like in my case when I was still drinking you know I would run in right before a road trip and and

Adam Butler (37:25.259)
Go back, you know, grab the bottle of vodka and just fucking whack back three or four gullp falls. Hiding from my girlfriend and her daughters. It's like, if that's the shit where, you know, if there was a camera in house and they saw that, you'd feel bad about it. So it's like, don't act like you're on camera. That's maybe like the basics. But then I always go through life like, I have God on one shoulder, my Pepe on the other, which is in the opening page of the book that you showed. And then now that I've gone deep into these psychedelic spaces, I really feel like I have these

DMT or psychedelic entities there to hold me accountable and that accountability is It can't be Faked and and that's where you know I say often like you can't look in the mirror on five grams of shrooms and lie to yourself and I think that that truth serum that telepathic communication that So like I can say to my girlfriend all I'm not jealous or I can say to you

Hey, listen, I don't think of you as competition. I really would want you to edit my book and I really would write a prologue for you. And I'm telling you the truth. I mean all that. Because I know when I fucking go and smoke DMT tonight, they're going to be like, you fucking lied to George. Why you going to, I'll get a slap on the wrist. Where it's like, I don't ever want that slap in the wrist from those entities or from God or from my Pepe. And it, yeah, it just, it keeps it, it keeps it honest. And maybe this is where.

Maybe parallel to the story about competency and kind of what that means I think where if people just have raw truth and kind of bear their heart on this this sleeve like I do I don't think like again. I don't think society's ready for that and I'm unfortunately I've you know, I've borne the brunt of that where I've clearly had most things that people work for taken away because I won't tolerate that shit But I think that maybe a midway step and I was listening to a Carl Jung

either seminar or like a speech and he was talking about the importance of not only setting up boundaries so you know the concept of boundaries is pretty straightforward but I think people normally think about that as kind of like a negative concept like you're truly putting up walls to prevent someone from getting in or you know obviously that's concept of boundary but then he expanded upon that as within those boundaries you have gates of clarity and that was a really really important concept because then he expounded on it's really important to let you yourself know what

Adam Butler (39:46.198)
What your gates of clarity are and what are what's acceptable and what you want but then also to express that to other people and it sounds kind of intimidating or it may be a little bit awkward at first, but You know like even again perfect real-life example talking about collaborating with the psychedelic states of America like when the three of us had our Conversation it was like hey listen guys. Here's my cards on the table. This is what I'm willing to do This is what I'm willing to offer. This is will of what my time is spent if I feel as though I'm being

being used or manipulated or whatever, I'm instantly gonna stop and it was just an awesome conversation with three adults or like in everybody that I'm interacting with. It's so refreshing to say and apply that now even to my dating scene or like, listen, this is what my boundaries are. Like I'm not getting married. I don't want kids. I don't want any of that shit. But then here are my gates of clarity. What I'd like to do is we can go on vacations. We can go to New Hampshire for two days. We can go to the psychedelic event in New York. can, you know, it's like

So I think it's really important in every aspect of life for everybody to have their boundaries, whether it be in personal relationships, work relationships with themselves, with their diet, with their health, with all of that. But again, most people, most people don't take the time to do that or wouldn't even know how to begin to even start that process of inner reflection. And that's where I think that, the theme of your, your guests and your podcasts and what we've been talking about is I think the big picture way beyond just psychedelics.

George (41:16.729)
You know, it brings up, it makes me question, there seems to be sort of a dichotomy between like, empathy and boundaries, at least for me. A lot of the times when I see people that I think are really assholes, I think like maybe they're just living their truth. Like, I don't know their story. And you know what I mean? Like maybe, and they have a reason. People aren't just assholes to be assholes. People are assholes. They have a reason. Might not be a very good reason, but they have their reason and they're living their truth through it.

Adam Butler (41:32.523)
Nah.

George (41:46.499)
So how do you establish that? Like if you see the homeless guy and you're like, dude, this guy, no one's even said hi to this guy in like six years or this guy's obviously going through some shit. I want to empathize with him. But what if that guy is just a piece of shit? Maybe he's down and out because he deserves to be down and out. Like, how do you figure that out?

Adam Butler (41:55.798)
Ahem.

Adam Butler (42:01.592)
Yes Right Right. No, so again, I'm not naive to think there's this like utopia out there where everybody is is perfect So there are some piece of shit scumbags that need to be wiped off the planet and and I'll be Perfectly blunt with that and I like I feel like and I'm the guy that could could run that truth No, no, but I mean there are certain things that like, you know If you steal a loaf of bread to feed your family, whatever that's acceptable If you do some of this like Epstein isle type shit, like there's no coming back from that like there's no lapse of judgment

George (42:21.529)
I know, I know.

Adam Butler (42:31.681)
Where you're gonna- we're gonna do some of that shit. Where it's like, your DNA needs to be fucking wiped off. And again, so that's not like all love and light and Adam's like, you know, not gonna harm a fly. If you're a piece of shit, throw me at him. That being said, and this is where... Well, because I'm- but I'm sensitive to the asshole. I'm sensitive to the jerk. I'm sensitive to... And this is where I can share a little bit of my personal story and then...

George (42:32.569)
Agreed. Agreed.

George (42:48.461)
love it.

Adam Butler (43:01.141)
with permission and he I'll ask him but I'm asking him right now and to share a little bit of my dad's story and my personal family story because it's dark, it's nasty and it's fucking horrible but it comes with I think an answer to your question that hopefully I can help the assholes like because there's plenty of assholes out there and then maybe help the people that are dealing with assholes so I truly was

The biggest douchebag asshole that there was and in my story I'd mentioned how I got a restraining order against me So I got a knock on my door from a constable saying you need to leave this house. You need to leave everything that woman did everything she could have been if I if I've ever met her again I would beg for her forgiveness and if she spit in my face, I would take it and say I'm sorry That was one of four women that I fucked over and yelled at and was an asshole too. Now. I never raised my hand to anybody I've never been in a fight. I've never hit a man. So I've certainly never hit a woman, but I was

Spatially aggressive verbally aggressive abusive. I mean these are terms that that suck for me to fucking say But not only to these beautiful women who were truly ten out of ten gorgeous successful any guy would be Happy to have any of these women that I dated Not only them, but their kids and then their kids friends And so like I was this this dark nasty horrible force that ruined fucking everything I wasn't in my nieces lives. So that book that you mentioned the alchemist of tears how it's dedicated to Juliana

I wasn't even part of her life at all up until five years ago because I was so just a narcissistic belligerent asshole who was so focused on money things material wealth all of that crap and I say all that because I was So fucking bad and nasty and not to say now that I'm some enlightened soul. That's perfect I'm still a human I have warts I have scars I'm I have a lot of shit that I'm digging myself out of but the nasty dark parts of myself

Are 180 degrees different and I will never raise my voice to another woman. I will never point my fucking finger another person I will never threaten to kill another man unless it's really needed. I will just I will not I'm such even just my demeanor my talk my everything is so different from what I was 40 years ago So I give people the space and for me and it and I'm not just saying well It was just 100 % alcohol, but in my case. I was a horrible alcoholic. I've been drinking since I was 12 years old I drank every day all day and

Adam Butler (45:20.149)
But because I was making so much money and I was successful and I had all the stuff in the three-story Victorian house and it was all I could I could always hide it Well, so again five years ago, I stopped drinking a little shortly after that. I had my psychedelic Epiphany transformation and this is all so again, this is all relatively new to me this whole writing career that everything is all new new new Part of me drinking or stopping drinking and then having all this shit happen as I moved back into my parents house now my father is

was a horrible alcoholic, generational alcoholic. So I learned it from him, he learned it from his dad, from his dad, my father's brothers and sisters, alcoholics, my sister, like it's a horrible fucking generational thing, right? That was the main crux of our butting of heads. So when I moved back into my parents' house, I now saw, now I wasn't my father's drinking buddy, now I was holding the merit to myself, it was not comfortable for me to hold the merit to him.

So now I'm seeing how he's treating my mom like I treated all those women now I'm seeing him be the asshole that I was now I'm seeing all of this shit, right? I'm bullet pointing this but this is going on for years So him and I have gotten into multiple fights where we threaten to kill one another like now me and my dad were best friends We were business partners. We would could not have been closer to my dad up until I stopped drinking So for years now, this has been

This headbutt shit and now my mom saying fuck you like like she she's seeing what an asshole He is and I'm finally got the balls to call it. Everybody else is kind of running from it long story short Months ago. She was like listen. I want to divorce from you like I'm done with this and My father kept thinking like I was the wedge. I was the one causing shit. I'm causing all this crap I'm getting not only my mom but our entire family against him It was it was literally Adams the asshole Adams my enemy and Adam is truly trying to

destroy my life like this is what my father thought up until literally a couple weeks ago, so I This is this conflict that I have with my dad and now I'm sober I've got multiple friends that are sober that are saying the same thing like holy shit like I never thought like friends that were abusive and actually beat up like their wives and shit like we're coming back telling my dad like Listen, I didn't even think like until I got unpickled. I was that same guy right so all of it this shit's happening

Adam Butler (47:40.824)
I come back from my five day darkness retreat, this is just three weeks ago. Totally raw, totally, like an amazing experience and I'd love to get into the details of that. But I just came back raw as fuck. And every one of my deep experiences, it always comes back to my daddy issues, my deep inner kid fucking trauma issues of I just want my dad to love me, to hold me, see me, to appreciate me. And since I've quit my high paying jobs and quit alcohol, my relationship with him was, it was non-existent. And if anything it was

It was I was the enemy right so I come back from the darkness retreat I write this nine page heartfelt letter to my dad saying that listen, but we obviously can't talk because we're so emotional Let's write it. We'll write our thoughts down. We'll exchange these words so that way we can just share because whatever right so Doesn't read the letter doesn't do anything like so I'm fucking pissed off Have this My friends over to kind of protect us

So now I'm confronting my father about some shit that we need to confront. It blows up for hours. It's fucking horrible. As horrible as you can possibly get to me being on my hands and knees literally crying saying, dad, I just want you to fucking appreciate me. just like horrible, right? So I fucking pull him down to the ground. He's hugging me, but it's like holding a fucking rock. He's saying he loves me. But again, I'm an empath. I feel shit like it. That's not it. Like there's clearly fucking nothing there. And so

And then I tell him about how I had another suicidal thought like just a couple weeks prior Like all this fucking release right thinking This is it like this has to fucking get him this has like he has to see his broken little boy and actually that fucking pitch Well a picture like that I brought up him when I was like four years old and I'm like dad pitching me in my voice Saying this right now. Like I just want you to fucking see me He leaves leaves for the night wakes up the next morning says hello like nothing ever happened like what the fuck right? So my mom says

Fuck you like I'm getting a divorce. This is it I can't see you treat my little boy like this and this and you know So I know I'm to basically just say fuck you. I'm just just associated now And I shot again. I'm sharing family stuff with you because I really hope this helps other people So it finally hit him like oh fuck this shit's real He has a complete mental breakdown like complete snap so I've had multiple ones of those and it's horrible So he starts hyperventilating. He can't breathe. He's fuck. He's he's literally fucking he's shaky. He's

Adam Butler (50:07.191)
flipping out. won't, my mom won't take him to the hospital because she's like, no, fuck you. You call one of your bar buddies, one of the people that, you basically all your friends that you put above us call one of your fucking bar mates to bring you to the hospital. So he does, but with her help here, he can't dial the phone.

Bombate comes, picks him up, brings him to the VA hospital. He goes into a psych ward for fucking seven days. Like, bad psych ward. Like, blocked in, like, people licking the walls type shit. that type cycle.

He calls me two days in, leaves a message and you could tell it's still wicked deflective. Like he's still, I'm still the enemy. Like fuck you, know, Adam, I'm sorry. I love you. So fucking like nothing there. Right. So I'm like, fuck you. Two days later leaves another message, completely different. Like something happened, like something he had this shift that, you know, and that's that epiphany moment, whether it the alcohol saying I'm done or whether that be that coming to God moment that, that Susie had, something happened.

where he switched. But I still didn't answer the phone call and I didn't answer. Two days later he leaves another call, I still don't answer, he leaves another message. Now again, I'm feeling this is heartfelt, something's changed.

But he's checked himself in so he can technically check himself out. a week later, and now my mom's been going to talk to him, he knows that there's a divorce, me and my mom are getting our own apartment, like all this crazy shit's going down. Well, I pull in from meeting up with that boss who I told you I talked to, so I already have this three hour emotional talk with this guy, all this crazy shit goes down. I come in and now I know that my father's home. I have no idea what's gonna happen. Are we gonna punch each other? he gonna attack me and say fuck you? Like, you caused all of this shit? Or...

Adam Butler (51:49.578)
What happened was I walked in and I just saw the back of his head. So he was sitting in the living room Completely different energy completely different or completely different completely different man just from the back of his head Completely fucking different he gets up. He looks at me completely different man again We embrace each other for minutes the best hug that I've ever had with another man ever He's in my ear saying I'm so I love you so much. I'm sorry I'm telling him the same thing being like what the fuck this is what I want to do to you

We hold each other for fucking minutes that night. We do it again multiple times This is just this is just a couple fucking days ago. Like this is all brand brand new to me, right? So I say that because That night we had multiple other talks. He's taking full accountability for what he needs to do He's not never drinking again. He knows that whatever he's he had 15 people for him not against him He knows that me and my niece were for him not against him all of this shit The next morning we woke up

He was brushing his teeth and I just went in and I hugged him while he was brushing his teeth and I thought he had actually spit out the toothpaste and he didn't. He had it in his mouth and we hugged each other for fucking minutes. So not that like that's some big thing for a man to do which is to hold toothpaste into his on his mouth. But for my dad, up until that, he wouldn't even look me in the eye, let alone hug me, let alone hold toothpaste in his mouth. When I went in there and held him, he was like, I would have held him for hours. Like he would not have spit that toothpaste out for anything because of what he went through.

And I share that because I had my change at 40 and I'm gonna spend the rest of my life making up for that which is Ultimately to those women and those kids but also to society to remove some of the plaque and shit This man is 73 and he had a change at 73 where I and it's not some fake shit. This is real We now we're writing each other notes. I tell him I love him every like we hug each other multiple times We are now each other's assets again, excuse me and um

George (53:46.531)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (53:48.588)
So it can happen like that change can happen now what's gonna come of it? My parents gonna stay together. They're gonna know we're all this there's gonna be a new life moving on But man you can get out of your own fucking way you can stop being an asshole You can stop being a dick and as much as he was an ass like I was that times a hundred as much of a monster as he was to my mom I was that times a hundred but time to four women and

Now I like that was one of the biggest keys that I needed fixed and I told that was my big daddy issue I was like dad you have the fucking key to my Psychological wounds like you all you need to do is fucking hold me all you need to do is hug me all you need to do is see me So for the past three days four days, I Feel held I feel seen I feel loved I feel heard But so does he and now he knows that he has me this powerful asset to help him through now Which is gonna be the most challenging part of his life a life of now. He's gonna be

do his whole life at fucking 74 years old but he has me as an asset. So that I give everybody again the space, the grace, the time that if they're 50 and still an asshole and alcoholic or 60 and still an asshole so to your point what about those those assholes? Alright well if you're a pedophiliac rapist who's a fucking scumbag again let's take him off the planet. If you were just just if you were a narcissistic belligerent asshole who was so caught up in his own shit

I guess I have a soft spot for that because I was that and then my father now is gonna be a perfect example and not to necessarily say even though he said he would that he's gonna come up on stage with me or be part of my podcast or part of whatever but now he is gonna be a shining example of what it means to own up look in the mirror stop fucking running from shit and for the first time he's able to say I'm an alcoholic now like that's that's not a dirty word that means you have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol that doesn't mean you're a failure that doesn't mean you're a piece of shit that doesn't mean any of that

But for 73 years he couldn't say that word. But now it's like, cool. you know, that's like me saying, like being embarrassed that I'm psychedelic philosopher. I love psychedelics. I lean into that. Like he couldn't. So there's that. And that's what led to, I think, a powerful story that with this emotion, if somebody could share what I'm gonna share next, that's the same thing that Suzy Ross shared. That's the same thing that you said you've experienced.

Adam Butler (56:12.065)
That's the sparkle in the eye that is accessible to everybody. And that's the story I'd like to share with you next, but I know I've been talking for a while, so I'm gonna hand it back to you.

George (56:21.379)
Man, first off, thank you, man.

Adam Butler (56:25.195)
Yeah, that's first time I've ever fucking shared that like that or been this much of a fucking mess But it's important to share and I think this is the podcast to do it

George (56:32.601)
I appreciate it. think everybody that listens to this will feel it, man. I know I did. It's fucking beautiful. It also speaks to the power of courage and not giving up on people, man. I think that's something that this whole story underscores, is never giving up on becoming the very best version of yourself or never giving up on what you truly love.

Adam Butler (56:59.863)
Well and staying staying aligned to that integrity and character so like I knew that I had that as my truth and if I could just get my father to see that so now and again maybe sad but like Not like you told me the other day. He's like I stood over my mom and watched her sleep and thought about how beautiful she was like he went through all the to-do List and got all the shit done and it's not he's not trying to make up for it to be like please be back with me. Don't leave me not at all He's doing it to show that he really appreciates her and understands what she's been through and he's just trying to do whatever he can

George (57:03.512)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (57:29.429)
To make good on it and like that's like I just I applaud him for his strength and I applaud him for what he's he's going through and But his his life is gonna be better from it and he knows that so now he does he knows one his wife his son his granddaughter's They're not his enemy. So wow now you realize you have a cast of characters to help you not fucking hurt you and he realizes that Yeah, wow, you're an asshole. So like even me like you you see how sensitive I am and how much like I like people what?

You know how painful it is me to know that I was the darkest piece of shit asshole pretty much in every room in every like almost in the fucking state wherever I was like that. That's a hard thing to fucking to bear.

George (58:09.603)
let me ask you this, let me stop. What do you do with that? How long do you hold that? Yeah, exactly. How do you do that? It sounds to me on some level like you can't ever let go of that.

Adam Butler (58:13.515)
You alchemize it.

Adam Butler (58:23.979)
Well, so this is this is where that inner work which shrooms really really helped me was I Was so up until I took ownership of myself. I was always looking for some sort of external solution to my internal problems It was always well that asshole that woman that whatever or if I always had if I had more money or more stuff or more It was always it was always outside and even and I mentioned this how I had a therapist and I was paying him You 240 bucks an hour and he was this highly educated older man who really could have helped me but

George (58:40.749)
Yep. Yep.

Adam Butler (58:53.545)
I would go in there and I wouldn't I wouldn't lie but I would manipulate the story to make it sound like I was so intellectually advanced and I was so superior and just the society wouldn't get me because of but and it's and I would get him to kind of be like Yeah, kind of feel bad for Adam. You you're just this great guy and it's like no I should have went in there and said no, you know, I'm a drunk asshole. I lied everybody about my drinking I treat everybody like shit and yeah, I wonder why all my relationships suck but it's like but if if he would have said that or if somebody else would have said that I would have gotten

George (59:19.864)
you

Adam Butler (59:23.009)
pissed off belligerent and probably got aggressive where with shrooms it was the first time that myself told me those things myself looked me dead in the eye which is like Adam you want to hear the truth this is why you're 40 pounds overweight this is why these women left you this is this this is it and it wasn't it wasn't an angry like you're such a stupid man it was a loving like hey these aspects of yourself have protected you and this is where the concept of like IFS and internal family systems

George (59:47.736)
Hmm.

Adam Butler (59:51.672)
where it of breaks down your psyche into parts, into egoic parts of yourself that it's not somewhat good or somewhat bad or some need to be silenced or shut up or that you want to disassociate or dissolve your ego. In my opinion, it's none of that. You need to embrace all of those aspects of yourself. And my first several months of psychedelics was really deep, deep inner shadow work with shrooms where I went not necessarily every day, but I was going multiple times a week, really, really deep. And it was tough. It was painful. I had to really relive.

A lot of the pain and trauma, but I came out of that owning it I came out of that owning every everything that was wrong in my life. I took ownership of I wasn't deflecting blame and then You know the kind of twist of that was but now you know so three months into that now I'm just well I realized that I'm like all this stuff, but now I'm still in this hole this mess I still have no idea what to do and that's really where DMT came in and the sum of that long first day of progression was really just appreciate the

very moment live here right now this very second and I was so caught up living in in the the anxiety of the future or the the fear and you know embarrassment of the past that I couldn't just be here right now and I came out of that that breakthrough session with the moment or with the realization of man you've got this very second so this very second not to yell and be an asshole this very second to decide to go to the gym or to do to do whatever but yeah so that that was the

The two kind of like brain shifts that I had was take accountability. Don't deflect take ownership And you know the solutions to your problems are gonna come from within not from without and then the fact of just yes Stop being so caught up in past and future and just be here now and then those two concepts have really been synergistically combined for the last three years to live You know a really content life But and this is where the asterisk so then hence this book the alchemist of tears so

Freaking right before I go into the darkness retreat me and Alicia break up. So this that's the woman that was in that first book She's she's been my best friend my psych-elect philosopher my sexual partner and it's fucked to even say this but like I've never been so proud of a woman for breaking my heart like We broke up not because of cheating or deceitfulness or without like we split up because we were both being true and honest to ourselves we were being authentic with ourselves and the difficult reality was our futures look different than what we envisioned right, so it's like

Adam Butler (01:02:20.385)
but still really, really difficult. So I had that going right into the darkness retreat. I come out and then I have this whole episode with my dad. And then I realized that me and my mom are gonna be moving. that's when on the way home from that darkness retreat, I realized I have like 5,000 photos in my phone from my trip across the country, like beautiful. And so for me to take out 120 was hard. Like have so many gorgeous pictures. And I was like.

Why am I not doing this? Like I should do this. I can do this the only thing preventing myself is for me and this was just a perfect example of Truly getting out of my own way Alchemizing incredible pain. I mean the moat from losing my girlfriend to my dad not telling me he loves me to like almost killing myself again to the darkness just to my seeing my mom crying being like where we're gonna go son like we're gonna move together like just and then having no one there to talk to because of all this shit

Decided to sit down and the other book I went through a publisher and help them this one. I was like fuck it I'm gonna learn everything myself. I learned all the programs. I started my publishing company. I uploaded it myself and I said fuck it. I'm gonna alchemize my tears and that's what this came out of but it's it's different from Like the and I'm also collaborating on another book about the dark night of the soul with these two women

And it's great. It's gonna be like this trifecta of like stories that come together But what I went through years ago what I mentioned about the shrooms and then that epiphany DMT that was my dark night of the soul That's when I was Suicidal really really shitty and I had no clue who I was where I was gonna go what my my level of shit was This last thing that happened a couple months ago. It was painful and and I say I had suicidal thoughts. It wasn't like

It wasn't like before it was it was just it was remembering what that feeling felt like it was like yeah That's that's the feeling that I don't ever want a feeling not like I'll fuck I'm gonna go do what I wanted to do before but It was it was the combination of all these emotions and these kind of you know what you need to prove to yourself that you're capable of doing whatever the fuck you want and yeah, so that for the past couple months have been Nothing what I would have thought this book wasn't supposed to happen this next chapter my love wasn't supposed to happen

George (01:04:16.685)
Mm-hmm.

Adam Butler (01:04:39.403)
But now because of that over the last few weeks so many awesome things have transpired including multiple trips across the country multiple collaborations and interviews with you so

George (01:04:49.145)
Yeah. Thank you.

Maybe it's our age, but I can't help but think, well, that's a given. mean, come on, that's a given. But I mean, I think that there's something that happens at middle age that I never knew about. I didn't have any mentors or people that really sat me down and told me about like, you get to go through a second adolescence. You get to go through a ritual, a cleansing.

Adam Butler (01:05:00.513)
how handsome we are.

George (01:05:26.401)
if you have the courage to do it. But you at a certain age, and maybe for some people it's younger, but for me it's late 40s and 50s, is like, you have an opportunity to stop being this fucking person that you thought you wanted to be and become the person that you're supposed to be. And when I hear your story, man, it's fucking...

brings me to tears. Like makes me like happy tears to get to hear someone go through all these trials and tragedies and come out the other side. You know it's like this initiation and I liken it to all the mythology that I've written where you go through this initiation and you don't even understand it's an initiation until you're like halfway through it you're like shit I always went through this trial over here I didn't realize it was happening you know but what are your thoughts on that? Do you think that it doesn't sound like maybe you had anybody to

to show you the way through the dark night of the soul? Or is it something that we all have to go through or find the courage to go through? Is that what happens? Is it a middle-aged thing? Is it a life crisis thing? Because it seems like you have to have those experiences, the growing up and finding yourself addicted to alcohol or understanding that this is a generational trauma. This isn't mine to even hold, man. I'm the one breaking this thing.

Adam Butler (01:06:47.093)
Yeah

George (01:06:48.185)
But those realizations don't come until you're through that or almost through it or halfway through it. But what's your take on this sort of second half of life and rituals and whatnot?

Adam Butler (01:06:59.895)
So there's a couple things there. You your comment about how you didn't necessarily have that type of mentor or that type of information. I think, and so, you I had some great mentors. mentioned, you know, my Pepe, you I went to college for almost eight years. I had some really great professors. But to your point, I didn't have a life mentor, somebody to just sit down and talk about this, about love, about broken hearts, about relationships, about all of the stuff that, and as much as a great...

George (01:07:20.803)
Right. Right. Right.

Adam Butler (01:07:27.297)
Father that I have and as much as my both my grandfather's were awesome men and really had good relations with them There was never this intimacy this authenticity and I don't know if it was like machismo alpha male kind of just a different generational thing where To cry or be soft or open about feelings was just not something men did but that's really where I'm again That's what I'm leaning into now is because as much as my story about psychedelics and about the fun shit that I've seen is interesting and maybe colorful it's

George (01:07:35.394)
Right.

George (01:07:40.473)
probably.

Adam Butler (01:07:55.264)
a lot of young to middle-aged men are gravitating towards me because I'm willing to sit this time with them and yeah, like give them that mentorship of just raw, authentic reality. with the, and this is to the other point, I don't think the desire is to remove their own personal suffering or to take their journey of their own dark night of the soul away or to walk their path through their parable hell for them. That's something that we all have to do. But I f-

George (01:08:15.405)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:08:23.939)
And it's an like when I hear people going through that in some weird way like I I'm like you don't know how lucky you are or I hear your pain and I'm not trying to deflect it but man you're that close or you know, you're 90 % there or it's and there is something that You know, you do have to go through that realization. There has to be that dichotomy There has to be that other side of the spectrum, but it's and that's you know, you tie into some of these ancient Stories and you know mythic stories

George (01:08:32.643)
Yeah.

George (01:08:49.977)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:08:50.689)
But then even like the hermetic principles about polarity and swinging flow and ebb and flow and you know You have to understand that there is gonna be the low to the high there is always that opposite and to not run from it but in essence to run to it and Another analogy I use often is that through all of these things that I've been through it's like you're getting Girl Scout or Boy Scout badges for your sash and I I call it like a soul sash and There are some people that just don't have the balls to do anything up to get those badges where

My and not only like my first session got filled fucking years ago where I've got like cross sashes full of badass badges because I've been through some some crazy ass shit and I wear those badges with honor because now I can help other people that are going through that crap so That idea of being a mentor of being there to listen for one another Again, I think you're doing that I'm doing that and that that's a really important thing for us to do and to do it with with vulnerability and That I don't want to say surprisingly

George (01:09:41.817)
Thanks.

Adam Butler (01:09:49.676)
But that's what has resonated the most about me being able to be accessible to people isn't hey Can you show me how to make DMT or your recipes were really interesting or teach me how to do the tantric sex? It's Yeah, like no one understands me. Can you? Can you just run this by me and you know, I talked to a guy the other day And he had you know, he called him nots He's like I have these three knots and they were three kind of like life things and after 45 minutes we untied all three of them and he was just like

Holy fuck like how I never thought I wasn't calling you to get these untied I was just kind of running it by you and I didn't have the answers What I did was I asked the right questions to hold the mirror to him where he answered it himself Because it was the first time somebody actually listened to him instead of being like, what do you bitching to me about your problems? was like, all right You're clearly reaching out to some strange guy who don't you don't know because you think I can help you you're not to say you're clearly desperate but it's like all right, man, like run it by me and

George (01:10:29.378)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:10:48.161)
we were able to solve it. if I could, this was where the painful story of my dad, I wanted to share it because it relates to something beautiful. And if people could, I'm trying to like, excuse me, I'm trying to articulate what it would be like to have a DMT session, but then also to experience God and to have that like enlightenment or epiphany moment like Susie Ross was talking about, or like multiple, you know, the guests talk about.

So if you could picture me, raw as fuck, crying, like I just rebranded myself, which is another kind of thing. So I had to do that as a pressure relief. So I got literally like an open wound in my fucking heart. I'm on my hands and knees. My mom's crying. My friend's crying. Like I'm literally fucking pleading with everything I have having this emotional breakdown. And what I was doing again, I was looking at my dad, begging him to see me, hear me, know me, love me, right? Like just the basics, like just.

Look at me like appreciate me and it's painful for a kid to do that to their parent or for a spouse to do that to their other and you can imagine that yearning that I had and it was it was a true true fucking yearning so It was I think that that night or that the night after I decided that I was gonna do a deep DMT session and Before every DMT session, you know, you always I always have a moment of gratitude a moment of prayer. You're setting your intention

You know what what are you going to? Whatever what what's the mood that you're trying to hit and it really was about gratitude appreciation share you know share thankfulness and I Went deep I went fucking really deep now I've I've done DMT hundreds of hundreds of times so I'm very used to the beauty of what is in that space and I Had a blast through session, and I was in that that vibratory home where I was blissed out

Not only my five senses were completely elevated, but I had all the other ones. It was the epitome of a beautiful DMT transcendental session, right? And then God and whatever that voice was conveyed to me, Adam, so, I was, so what I would actually, I was sitting there saying thank you. So I'm sitting there truly in awe, right? And I was, and I was, I'm holding myself, hugging myself under the covers, thanking.

Adam Butler (01:13:12.917)
God, myself, my body, my brain, whatever, that DMT, all the things to be like, wow, like I'm experiencing this. Thank you. Like this, this is it. This is fucking bliss. And that's when, when God in essence answered back to me, like thank you for seeing me, for hearing me, for feeling me, for loving me. And then in the most heartfelt, heartbreaking thing, in essence, God got on his knees like I did.

And was like this is what I'm doing to society. This is what I'm doing to everybody that hasn't seen what you're seeing which is just Fuck see me hear me. Love me. Feel me know me embrace me. I I am God I am this I am this beauty but then instantly and anybody that's been into that space knows God is you you are it you're one in the same like it's not separate like it's a different layer, but it's all one right so then being God are getting into this this deep philosophical conversation about

My role as a messenger to help people see here feel touch whether it be psychedelics or not to share my story Right. So having this awesome interaction and God is showing me how beautiful I am as well as they are and how we're all one And this is going on for a couple minutes, right? So this is fucking fantastic And then and then I'm like, alright, so but I'm like but then what like so what what now like what what's the end? Like is there some next level of human evolution? Do we you know, is there some like three?

George (01:14:26.307)
you

Adam Butler (01:14:37.289)
Ascend to the fifth dimension. Do we blast into heaven? Does the rapture happen? You know, like kind of what? What's next and it was this awesome beautiful like step-brother kid interaction where he did like he she it just kind of looked and was just like Nothing like this is it like what what fucking more like this is it like you've you figured it out You're in this blissful state. You see me you feel me you hear me. You love me You know, I am you you and I we're all the same

George (01:14:57.557)
Hahaha

Adam Butler (01:15:06.871)
Every sentient being is part of this thing where one of this whole time is not linear and and it was like and it was this really cool like tada like But not like oh, let me pull back the the screen to the Wizard of Oz and let me show you the mechanics It's like no there are no it really is just here's the mirror like that. There is nothing else and that that experience was Not only did it then again did that confirm my divinity my blessedness my

George (01:15:15.203)
The right.

Adam Butler (01:15:33.623)
So much greater than my physical body and I'm so connected to that energetic source But it confirmed that like it's accessible it's there and If everybody could just touch that once that's kind of one of those experiential things where all you need to know if you've never swam or jumped in water you don't know what it feels like to be well but like you just have to know that once like once you touch God like I did once you have that DMT experience once you're

George (01:15:46.241)
Yep. Yeah.

George (01:15:58.339)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:16:00.34)
Once you're satiated like when you're as low as I was pleading to be seen heard loved felt held all of that and then to get it and then to expand that to a God level and then to then suck that back into your level and then it's just like like toroidal kind of thing that just self-perfectually feeds of like yeah, but then when I look at you and another kid like Everybody else is their own little divine little kind of doughnut of perfection and with though with scars warts and shit and plaque that need to be removed

And that's where, again, my passion comes in, where it's like, let's remove the plaque so everybody can really thrive in their own light. And that doesn't mean everybody becomes Republican or Democratic, or everybody has the same view on, you know, sexuality or any, no, we can all have differing opinions, but you do it in a respectful way where you appreciate the other person's life experiences, and you do it in a collaborative way where it's not fearful of hoarding resources or belittling or just the way I lived my life for 40 years.

as opposed to how I've lived it for the last five. again, it's when you talk to people that have had a similar journey, and that's why I think podcasts like you and the group that we're forming with Psychedelic States of America are really important because it's not just some middle-aged white gnarly looking dude from New England. It's everybody. the common story of looking for that sense of self and feeling comfortable in your own skin and feeling aligned is a universal seeking.

George (01:17:05.529)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:17:26.741)
and it's a universal right and it's there for everybody and all it takes is the knowledge to know you're worthy of it and then the time to explore it.

George (01:17:30.457)
Yeah.

George (01:17:37.081)
What about, I would add in courage too, because it's scary, man. It's fucking scary. Like I've, I know you and so many people in our group and just so many anecdotal stories of people.

Adam Butler (01:17:40.179)
absolutely.

George (01:17:52.483)
Like there's something fearful about letting go, about letting go of identity, about letting go of the things that you think really fucking matter, like that you're holding so tight to. Like you're to let go of that? You're going let go of that? Like it's scary. And psychedelics force you to do it because you get to a point on a high enough dose where you can't hold on. You can't. There's no way.

beginning, that symbolic letting go in a heightened state of awareness that allows you to let go of things in the material world. Like that to me. And when you let go of those things, now you have space to grow. It's not about how much you can do. It's about how much you're willing to let go of.

Adam Butler (01:18:35.148)
Absolutely.

Adam Butler (01:18:38.935)
And you know, in my case, I ruined everything in my life. Like I am the self-destructive force that took away everything. like, you know, maybe it'd be like, well, it'd easy, just don't be an asshole and those things wouldn't happen. But like, even now in my own, like my current state, it's like, so what am I seeking, right? So I don't have the same financial security. don't have, security would probably be the right word. But then I have this like, you know, philosophical conversation with myself where there is not security in anything.

George (01:18:49.761)
Easy to say.

George (01:19:00.685)
Yes.

Adam Butler (01:19:07.497)
at any level and if anybody thinks there is so if you think you have your health and you'll always have it or if you think you own it you have a great job and you'll always have it or your wife will never cheat or your kids will always whatever or you'll no you can you can have a stroke you can have an accident things can get taken away instantly so the idea of not seeking security because i think that's a false illusion that's allowed me to kind of take a step back and just kind of go with the flow a little bit but yeah that that's a so for anybody out there to think

George (01:19:31.491)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:19:37.014)
Like, I'm not gonna, this is scary because it's gonna, you know, fuck up my security. Yeah, but that security was false anyway. you know, part of these realizations that can be tough are, you may realize, I don't like my job, I don't like my wife, I need a divorce, I wanna move from this state, I don't wanna be here, I wanna be here. But that's tough. Like, so like in my case, it was tough for to walk away from Alicia and that like amazing relationship.

George (01:19:59.545)
That is.

Adam Butler (01:20:05.921)
But it's out of principle. It was tough for me to stand up to my dad and literally say I'll fucking kill you. But if you talk to my mom like that, I will fucking kill you. You know, it's like it, but so it's tough to stand up for, for the stuff you need to stand up for, but it's so liberating and so freeing and it's like, it feels good when you stay aligned with your yourself and excuse me, I gotta wipe this snot hanging out of my nose. But yeah.

I don't fucking mind these types of stories that I really thought it would be you know, let me talk about the fun psychedelics and some of the cool shit that I've seen but I've realized that There's plenty of people sharing those stories and there's plenty of people and and I enjoy like I love trip stories I love trip sessions. I love the psychedelic Alex Gray type type artwork, but I Think my not think I know my specific niche and lane in this psychedelic kind of journalistic space is to be the one that

George (01:20:52.577)
Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:21:06.795)
Willing to literally throw my heart and my balls on the table and say here it is and I'm doing it to help others and judge me as you may but I know my words are helping people and that's all the fuel that I need and Yeah, it's where that leads me. It's gonna be exciting as hell because I'm not seeking money I'm not seeking fame. so I guess to your point like, know all those titles that people have like in my case I got them all wiped away instantly so it's like

George (01:21:29.88)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:21:35.893)
So I kinda had to rebuild myself. I think what your point is is you don't have to have all of your identity wiped away because of some traumatic, tragic event. You can listen to those stressors and those signals in your life before they become suicidal or to the point where you're threatening to kill somebody over $900.

George (01:21:46.807)
Right?

George (01:21:50.968)
rate.

George (01:21:56.109)
Yeah, I agree. think that that maybe you don't have to, I don't think you have to be 50 years old, although it kind of helps because you go through all those experiences. But yeah, those choices are there for you to make on a daily basis. If you just have the cognitive horsepower or you have the faith or you've seen God and you're able to understand that you're enough, then you can start making those decisions to be like, look, man,

I'm not living the authentic life. I'm not being George. I'm not being Adam. I'm being this illusion of what society wants me to be. But that story about seeing God and touching God and Him giving you the ta-da moment, it's right here. What are you talking about?

Adam Butler (01:22:40.983)
But being like can you believe people don't see me like and that that's kind like what I was doing to my dad though was like do you not see how awesome I am like beyond all right so the business successes the college successes the fact that I wrote a book like it was almost like what the fuck like any dad would be happy to see me like How do you not see me like I'm awesome? And it's like that's what God was not doing to me because I was fully seen but like pretty much being like how does How does such a large percentage of humans not see me like the everybody has access to this?

George (01:22:45.486)
Yeah.

Right?

George (01:22:56.909)
Yeah.

George (01:23:01.997)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:23:10.315)
And that's where you know, I'm I'm a really interested in endogenous DMT and getting to these elated states without smoking DMT or doing you know anything externally and The fact that you can just get in in a deep meditative state do some breath work Calm yourself and you can have it, know endogenously Induced DMT session with God and that's accessible to everybody every morning before they take their shower and the people that do it do it for the rest of their lives because they're like wow, you know

It's like brushing their teeth. Like, yeah, I'm going to connect with God before I fucking leave the house. And why wouldn't you? But unless you know how, you wouldn't. that's what I'm trying to share with people. And it's not follow Adam's method or take three hits of DMT, spend one time left, knock on the door once and you're there. It's whatever you need to do. It may be yoga. It may be a walk in the woods. It may be a Sunday morning fishing with a cold beer. And I'm being honest, like that could be the meditative state that allows you to get into a trance-like state.

George (01:23:40.759)
Yeah.

George (01:24:00.334)
Right.

George (01:24:04.002)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:24:08.225)
Where you're watching the sun come up your hand the birds chirping and yeah, you're having a bear in your fishing But damn it you're meditating and you're touching God do that You know and for some people that may be going to church on Sunday for some it may whatever but you got to figure out what it is that makes you truly to You can induce your own goosebumps on command like that is an amazing skill set to have and I have it like that That's all I can get high at any point in the day and get a static blissed out

George (01:24:19.257)
And yeah.

Adam Butler (01:24:36.831)
literally by shutting my eyes and just thinking for a minute and I'm Like, it's cool.

George (01:24:43.403)
It is cool. You know, I'm reminded of the old Carlos Castaneda books where he talks about different plant medicines being different allies. And you've spoken quite a bit about different methods to touch God. But earlier in the conversation, you were talking about doing large doses of mushrooms and then DMT. What do, in your opinion, in your experience, has each has those two particular substances taught you different things? Can they get you to the same place or?

Do you find one to be a certain way and another to be a certain way? Or does one more align with you? What do you see as the similarities, differences, and teachings from both of those substances? And when do you use them and why?

Adam Butler (01:25:24.695)
Yeah, I think there are some broad categories that apply. But then to separate it out, so I'm friends with this woman who grows like 25 different strains of shrooms, of psychedelic shrooms. And she's kind of refined her process where some are better for anxiety, some are better for depression, some are better for visual journeys, some are more somatic, some are more, you know, so even within the different groups, I think there's different...

Whatever, know flavor just like with different strains of wheat, you know if somebody somebody smokes a strong indica They'll go to bed if somebody smokes a hot, know good sativa. They're gonna be you know up and running so But for me it was a very very clear shrooms were inner reflective And it was

George (01:25:53.727)
Right. Right.

Adam Butler (01:26:13.975)
It was more just I had my five senses and they were warped on psychedelics. So it was you're still breathing, mean you're still touching, seeing, feeling, but it was just everything's warped and weird and it was inner reflective. DMT was not only are those senses didn't feel drugged up, they felt more natural like the veil was being removed, that they were just being more like highly sensitized.

And that those five cents is multiplied to 25 or 50. So that I think that's where that common theme of more real than real people say often about the DMT experience because you're just getting so many data points. But you know, there's a lot of what's the intention, why you doing it, what's the dose. But I brought this up with somebody the other day and then they were talking about, you know, we were talking about the differences in what, what to use and what would be better for some.

George (01:26:47.211)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:27:05.079)
uh... you know like some people use lsd creatively and and that's it that's a different feeling that that's a completely different feeling but some of us are going to live again and how like chemically it does something with like the the neurotransmitter receivers in your brain and that you know it's more than just well you could do shrooms or dvd or ibogaine to help with ptsd it's like no ibogaine is used for ptsd because it actually does something with the neurochemistry of the brain and it allows for you neurogenesis to occur there are some

George (01:27:13.643)
you

Adam Butler (01:27:33.047)
But that's where like the strawsman's in the galimores and the people that are actually studying this that there is that data that that's out there my personal experience is I Love doing shrooms for my inner reflective work, and it really is that's the intention What what what can I learn about myself when I do DMT? It's more what can I be exposed to what's out there? Like how can I sensitize my filter to take in more to take in more information and then?

George (01:27:35.993)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:28:02.616)
A months ago I was exposed recently to, and this is where it's going to be unique and individual, but there's so much there to explore. I was exposed to 5MeO DMT for the first time a couple months ago. So you have the Bufo Frog DMT, is from the Sonoa Desert Frog. Then there's Synthetic 5MeO, which is obviously made in a lab, but the one that I was using was made from Yopo seeds. So it was a plant-based 5MeO DMT.

you know that that resonated with me because it was natural it was something that I could take in and I got comfortable with 5 Meo on one day and then the next day we incorporated 5 Meo with shrooms LSD and MDMA over like an eight hour period and it was so you know hear that to some so it wasn't it wasn't too well it was it was a gram of shrooms so that that's a that's small dose all right a gram of shrooms with lemon tech

George (01:28:43.831)
Wow. Wow. What are the dosages? What was like that?

George (01:28:56.633)
Noticeable. Noticeable.

Adam Butler (01:28:58.783)
It was a full dose of LSD, a full dose of MDMA and then the 5MEO was in a vape pen and I just kept ripping it like I had it there to just keep going. But I had two people sitting with me. I had a wife who was chanting and singing and playing her guitar. I had her husband next to me channeling his energy. I had the wood stove going. Actually there's a picture in the book at the end of it where I said that's the one that was taken by my friend Shelly. So I was in, basically I just sat like that for eight hours and

George (01:29:13.357)
Yeah.

George (01:29:23.266)
right?

Adam Butler (01:29:28.107)
different levels of vibration. as you know, as the LSD kicks in, that's going to be different from the somatic feeling of the MDMA. And then that's going to be, know, and it was all done at certain intervals to elicit certain feelings. And I went in that meeting, kind of not meeting, but that retreat with them being not cocky, but being like, you know, I'm, I'm the experienced psychonaut. I've done this hundreds of times. I'm going to like, whatever, give me the highest dose. And I'm just going to, I'm going to go do my thing and

George (01:29:54.861)
Right, right.

Adam Butler (01:29:57.462)
I was so glad I didn't do that. I followed their advice. I went with their kind of protocol. I went with their program and I just learned so much about myself, about my body, about those different chemicals and plant medicines and drugs or however you want to word it. So I think intention behind the use of them are going to be important. And I think what works for each individual is going to be different. And actually that particular scenario,

those people do hold retreats and she was saying about how they had this gnarly Delta Force guy there who was one of the most rough and tumble alpha male guys did that whole process that I was saying and it didn't crack them, it just wasn't getting to them and then she offered regular, well regular, NNDMT and as soon as he hit that recalling her story was

It instantly resonated with his body in a way where he knew he felt comfortable that this was the molecule that he was going to use for self exploration. He explored it further and that was the night that he finally was able to open himself up and then become part of the group and then, you know, get, get the therapy that he needed. So I don't think it's a one size fits all. I don't think, you know, dose is going to be dependent. And then intention, you know, there's a place for a micro dose to clean the house on a Sunday on a half a gram of shrooms, but then

George (01:30:59.47)
Yeah.

George (01:31:11.042)
Yeah.

George (01:31:15.033)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:31:17.047)
You last time I did shrooms I did 6.1 grams and I was like, want to go pretty deep. And I shut the shades, I put my eye thing on, you know, and it's, what's your intention and what are you trying to get out of it? But I think the worst thing people can do is just listen blindly to what somebody else's suggestions are. Or think that it can't be dynamic and changes can't be made on site because I think you always have to listen to your intuition and listen to your gut and bail if you feel like you need to bail or lean in when you feel like you need to lean in.

George (01:31:24.056)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:31:45.696)
And you know with that eight hour experience for the first hour or two or three not to say I was holding back but you you're getting accustomed to it. It was finally when I was like alright I'm comfortable these people are protecting me. I can finally fully let go and go and I did and yeah I had a really beautiful experience that day as well as you can imagine.

George (01:31:58.595)
Alright.

George (01:32:05.977)
You know, that's something, yeah. Like, first off, I've never even heard of that combination before. And like, that would freak me. That would freak me the fuck out, especially around people. Like, you can do that giant dose and be around people? but you couldn't, I don't know if I could do that dose alone in the dark room without freaking out either, isn't it, don't you find it weird sometimes? At least for me, I find it weird to be around people. Like, my use with psychedelics is...

Adam Butler (01:32:19.595)
Ha ha ha.

George (01:32:35.037)
I've never gone to a retreat and I don't particularly want to be around anybody. I'm going to do a giant dose with 6, 12, 14. I'm going to do it. I want to be in a room. I know my family's okay and I got 10 hours to just be in this room alone. I don't know. What is the relationship with the retreats? What do you get out of a retreat and being around people that you wouldn't get around being in your own conclave?

Adam Butler (01:32:42.636)
Me too.

Adam Butler (01:33:04.727)
That's a fantastic question and I think there's a few points to draw out. So I personally I would say 99 % of the time that I've done it has been in the comfort of my own home in my bedroom either by myself or whether it be Alicia or you know another person that I trust. That being said, I learned so much from this retreat. It's on the call that I sent it in the group message today.

George (01:33:15.063)
Right, right.

George (01:33:26.083)
What was the name of the retreat, can you say?

Okay.

Adam Butler (01:33:31.639)
So it's kind like an invite only type shit, but it is accessible. is a name, it's Sage Soul. So I sent it to the group, so it's not like it's some hidden type shit. But I think for me to kind of add just the group mentality, which I didn't think would be so important, was my story about going to Monroe Institute. So that was a week long stay at their campus in Virginia, and there was 25 of us.

George (01:33:40.277)
Right, I just wanted to give them credit if they want a credit.

Adam Butler (01:33:57.612)
without getting into the story of the Monroe technology and the Hemi-Sync and the autobody, which is really psychedelic. And I wrote a paper comparing DMT states to the autobody states of Monroe. And there are a lot of different similarities. But I mention that because the camaraderie and the sharing from the group, it was so amazing. like,

That first night when everybody did the introductory and everybody kind of set the tone to be like, all right, this is a safe space. We're not, we're not judging. We're here to learn. We're here to grow that that made that retreat so much greater than me just sitting in a dark room with, with headphones on listening to their technology. And that, that was the first time I ever really realized the synergistic effect of sharing through that growth process. But this was the first time that I ever did a psychedelic retreat and I'm kind of

Not necessarily on record saying but I've said before I'm not necessarily interested in doing a ayahuasca retreat down in South America where you're getting bitten by mosquitoes and you're gonna shit in an outhouse and you've got 15 people purging and shit next to you and you got people moaning and you're so taken on in all their dark energy and like there's a lot there that Doesn't sound appealing but then and I actually was just on the podcast with ayahuasca Ayahuasca podcast is actually the name

George (01:35:10.873)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:35:18.709)
And the guy owns a retreat down in Columbia. And there's some beautiful aspects of traditional medicine, of ceremony, of respect for the history of it. You know, so there are, I don't want to just blanket statement being like, yeah, I wouldn't do that. I think in the right scenario, could be really good. This particular situation where I went out was they're primarily servicing veterans with PTSD. They're doing couples sessions. They're doing group women's retreats. They're hitting their...

primarily focused on mental health issues and helping people reduce their trauma and suffering. So that was the appeal of working and collaborating with them. So they actually reached out to me to say, can we work together? I, you know, to kind of get some of my DMT experience. And when I went there, what I received from them, which I think is helpful is, so I went there telling them basically, excuse me, whatever the dose is, give me triple.

Whatever the protocol is I'm gonna just jump right in it like pretty I thought in my mind I wanted just to experience the full blow I want the triple black diamond and whatever like I'm here. I'm here for the for the whiteout 5m EO I just want to fucking I want it Their suggestion was and I'm glad that I didn't was they had four vape pen strengths So they had a vape pen that was cut to 1 16th one to cut to 1 8th one to cut to 1 4th and then one that was 50 50 which was in essence their strongest one and

I've actually mirrored this technique telling other people about how to use DMT and I think it's applicable because if you were to do regular NMDMT or 5MeO DMT and just right from the first time do a full blast off like the Terrence McKenna four rips or three rips and just have a full blast out I think it would be terrifying it would probably not be beneficial and it probably wouldn't be something that you'd want to do again where this method was

George (01:37:02.317)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:37:13.079)
Slow ebb and flow you're having this dance. So the first hit you're barely getting any feeling is in sensation You know, it's a three second draw with a three second hold a little you know vibration a little bit of tingling in your lips You're basically just getting a feeling for it Then you take you know a five second draw of that lower strength hold it for five seconds Then when you're feeling ready and there's no rush you've got all afternoon to do this, you know It's not like you've got a limited amount. We've got an hour. So when you feel ready to go to the next strength Alright, well now we're gonna go to the next strength for three seconds

George (01:37:14.573)
Right, that makes sense.

George (01:37:27.544)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:37:42.156)
Then five and then the next track is and then you know So was really an hour and half into it now Now I was comfortable working up to the full strength pen because I knew my body as a vessel could handle it I wasn't intimidated by the sensations I felt comfortable now with these two strangers that weren't strangers right so to your point Who the fuck are these people are they gonna start touching my toes or stop? know like this guy gonna teabag me like I don't know, but now I'm feeling like all right They're legit. I'm in a safe place, and I'm actually I'm actually now picking up their energy, and then it was

George (01:37:51.906)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:38:11.819)
Alright you're on your own. here's the highest pen, hit it as long as you want, hold it for as long as you can. And then, you know, then I had that full whiteout experience of that 5MeO, which is a complete different disconnect from NNDMT, which is all fractal and like, spin and modulus and shit. 5MeO is not that, it's a whiteout with a vibratory kind of visceral feeling. But, I say that because a couple weeks ago, probably about a month ago, I had a DMT session here at my house and

It was I and I wanted to go deep so I whacked it I whacked it hard and man I like this was one of first times I felt as though got like taken out of a spaceship and like removed from my house and like I was just literally kind of holding on but I was laughing because It's a familiar sensation. I didn't like I knew I wasn't in fear But I kept thinking about my buddy who he's thought about maybe doing DMT and I was like man if Dave did this He would fucking wig out and be like Adam. What are you doing? Like why would you ever fucking smoke this shit? And why would you ever give this to me because it would be terrifying

George (01:39:10.52)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:39:10.817)
But now if I gave him my vape pen and said, we're to spend the afternoon, bring your pillows and blanket. And here's the low dose. Have that have a couple of drinks of juice and we'll work into it. I think then at the end of the day, if he had that like, shit, it would have been like, wow. This shit's great. Like that's what can happen if you go full blast. So to answer your question, I think it is nice to have somebody just to hold a safe space for you. So even the first time I did DMT, I had my best friend there to just

And we weren't integrating he wasn't telling me hey, what did you see or what that means? It was just I knew if somebody hit the doorbell or if something happened he was there so there is something to have somebody to have space there for you and then It is I think it's it is important Maybe for people that are just getting into it that there is some value to have somebody that that has some experience with that particular molecule and you know I think like that's something that I that I offer it whether it not even necessarily sitting with somebody smoking DMT with them,

Just having a conversation with somebody before they do it to be like hey listen This is what to expect this is what you're feel as opposed to just Getting some on the street ripping it and and see what can happen because that will be it will blow your mind I mean it would you know you're not gonna smoke DMT and come back and be the same so you're gonna really Be prepared for what you're gonna handle so pros and cons to both, now I say once you get comfortable with it There is nothing better than being alone with a DMT pen in your in the darkness meditating

doing your own thing that is fantastic what you get comfortable with that space but I'm glad I had people there for the first time and I'm glad I learned techniques from people that were more knowledgeable and so on that pull like I've never done Ibogaine obviously that requires like medical kind of attention I would you you'd want somebody to be there for that I've never done ketamine I don't know like do I feel comfortable I could do it at my at home by myself yes but maybe it'd be good to have somebody that is a ketamine expert to kind of

maybe be there with me also individual at maybe that's to like some people like working out at the gym alone and just to get their routine they go they put the headphones in and keep everybody away and some people only like the classes with thirty people and they only want the world is classes and that's what they get benefit from so I don't think it's right or wrong I think it's you know what what what do you feel and maybe you can do both the 30 person class in the solo treadmill

George (01:41:27.641)
Yeah, it makes sense. It's a definite experience and it's unique to the individual for sure. Adam Butler, man, covered a lot today, That was a fantastic conversation, man. I'm grateful that you were willing to go deep and be vulnerable, man. I appreciate that. Thank you.

Adam Butler (01:41:49.279)
Important then you know I'm kind of leaning into obviously the title of the book being the alchemist of tears and you know as I as I think about Not just necessarily business branding and what we move forward, but like I I love DMT DMT saved my life That first book has opened up so many doors, and I I plan on exploring DMT for the rest of my life Do I want to be the DMT guy? Not necessarily like even my next book in the field guys series is about psychedelic integration again super super important topics, and I I happily want to talk about

integrating psychedelics, but the conversation does go way beyond that to five-year-olds to 95 year olds and that is how do you alchemize pain trauma tragedy tears and Yeah, so I changed all my feeds on my social media to alchemist of tears I just started a new website alchemist of tears this new book obviously, so I know again I thought I'd be either the entomologist or the rich real estate guy or the I don't know not the fucking alchemist the tears of all things, but here we are

and whatever, you know, it's my lot and maybe the most important thing is, is I'm not running from it anymore. Like I'm not, I'm cool with it. I'm not worried about being judged by any guy or woman. I'm not being, I'm not worried about not being invited to certain conferences or being part of the mainstream, whatever. Like there's plenty of people for that. I'll be the guy that sits in the room with the misfit awkward guy that no one else will talk to and I'll help fucking, I'll help remove some of his plaque. And that to me is the most rewarding thing. But to your point earlier, it's heavy.

And I need I need my releases. I need my purge, know, so I feel as like I'm a sponge I can suck all these things in but then I need to go and release that and that's where my meditative sessions come in important That's where my connection to sauce to God God, excuse me, because I then pass that on to that energy, know and it's like I feel like that that's my role is a transmuter or alchemizer of not only my pain but other people's and I feel like I can I can take this shit and throw it and make it manure and grow flowers out of it where

And as soon as I show people how to do that, it's kind of like, can do that for myself. And that's, and that's kind of having a little bit of teacher in me. that's such a great rewarding feeling when you teach somebody how to do something profound and it's not like, yeah, smoke my drug or listen to the CD. It's no, can find, you can find that in yourself. And if I may, maybe as we're wrapping up, I can, I can share this beautiful story of the power of sharing this message. But then also if you have the opportunity to do this for somebody,

George (01:44:09.986)
Yeah, please.

Adam Butler (01:44:17.783)
Please please please do it. Last weekend or two weekends ago, I was at this session that my friend Michu held. So she's actually the one that grows all of those strains of mushrooms and she's helped a lot a lot of people overcome bullshit and trauma in their life. So she had this really great meeting at a like juice bar in Westfield, Massachusetts and there was a group of probably about 15-20 people there that came for her talk and

George (01:44:28.217)
Hmm.

Adam Butler (01:44:45.077)
I was invited kind of as like a guest of honor to kind of sit beside her and kind of be you know, like we were the two kind of psychedelic experts and So I shared some of my raw story, right? So I instantly let people know that I am whatever I let their god down because I let my god down and hey I'm not I do have this I'm different from the look that I have right because I kind of walked in and people like who the fuck is this guy? So like I need them to know no, I'm the soft guy not the tough guy. So we're sharing all these information and then

George (01:45:00.951)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:45:13.707)
We're wrapping up 20 minutes into it a lot of people have showed shared this story and then me too asked You know is there anybody else that has anything that they'd like to say and this woman was probably in her 60s Dressed in like these really like cool hippie clothes like all these these really beautiful colors and she says You know, I'm up I'm up past cocaine addict and I'm a past alcoholic She goes, you know, I'm really trying to do the inner work and find myself she goes I I did go to an ayahuasca retreat and she goes I just I didn't

I have any feelings. It didn't hit me. She's like they gave me more of it and it still didn't happen So she goes now I'm sitting there in this ayahuasca retreat being like I'm even too broke for this ayahuasca retreat and like even you know, so she's having all of this kind of in a dialogue and she's sharing this with ourselves because then you know, the next question is kind like well What do you guys recommend I should do in a psychedelic way? Should I take shroom? Should I do DMT? And you know, she's sharing this story and she's saying how you know, but I did take some lessons out of it and

You now when I'm when I'm at home, and she and she talks about how when she's looking in the mirror And then she starts kind of hesitating a little bit how she's like you know and I know I've learned some things and I know I've got a lot to be proud for and then like as she started talking nicely about herself She's she kind of it was it was hesitating and this whole time I'm looking at this woman, and I have like and again I'm very open about my sexuality with everybody right and that was one thing I expressed very openly about how comfortable I am about my sexuality, so I stopped her I was like

You need to tell yourself how fucking beautiful you are. I'm like you are so beautiful I'm like I've been sitting here looking at your feminine energy and I said this out loud like and no sexual things I like so I'm not trying to get in your pants I said but you are fucking beautiful and you need to see that you're beautiful and you need to tell yourself that you're beautiful the whole 15 people or 20 people in the room Rod started clapping like rate like screaming like yeah. Yeah, so then she instantly starts to get this like flush of like yeah, like not only is he saying this and he means it because

And he's not saying he's trying to fuck me or doing anything. He just told his story But then he I just got confirmed by the entire room That I am beautiful and then you saw her old demeanor changed and like and I said it and I'm like and so tonight like when you're brushing your teeth like promise me that you're tell yourself how beautiful you are and she's she's like I will and and I mean and That lady left walking on fucking clouds when she left that juice bar, and what did I say?

George (01:47:10.787)
Right.

George (01:47:15.651)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:47:35.159)
I said that a woman's beautiful and because she was I didn't lie. I didn't fabricate I wasn't trying to be manipulative. I wasn't trying to get anything out of her I wasn't trying to fuck her I was looking at this broken woman who just has a hard time calling herself beautiful and she was she was a beautiful beautiful woman in every aspect But she just needed somebody to tell her it's okay to tell yourself. You're beautiful That's why you know throughout this conversation I've let out some of my rawness, but I've always peppered in it, but I know how great I am I know my divine connection. I know with all of my Watson bullshit

That I am fucking beautiful and that I joked about us being handsome We are fucking handsome, you know, and it's like and it's okay to say that but there are a lot of people that can't look at themselves in the mirror and say I'm beautiful. I'm handsome and you know my routine before every podcast including this one as I do I stand in the mirror and I say Adam I love you. I'm happy that you're alive that your message is important that your message is helping people and that like yeah share it so Every time I sit down for a podcast. I'm fucking jazzed up

Like I'm not like I've got this imposter syndrome. No one's gonna want to hear what I have to say or you know what? This this one's only gonna get 12 views where I gotta have this 50,000 view minimum. That's like fuck No, man, like I am I just I guess whatever I I appreciate who I am and I try to let people know that that's accessible to them and that lady Left there like that and and if I could and I want to say this without being too judgmental in case they are listening because I feel as though I met a lot of new friends and fans that

Like all 15 of those people I think bought my book and all 15 of those people started following me. But there was this other gentleman who, and I don't think he would be, I think he would be okay with me saying this. Physically, he didn't look like the average man of his age, right? So a little bit shorter, a little bit wider, a couple ailments. He had a cane, he walked a little bit different. His voice was a little bit off. And he's sitting there in this group.

George (01:49:21.113)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:49:25.975)
And he's saying about how he's just trying to find a group of friends He's trying to feel a group where he can fit in how he can be accepted where he's not gonna feel judged How he's not and he's saying this and he's like in this group feels great He's like I just feel like like we're friends and I can he's like this is the first time I've been able to share my story and for it to be you know to be received and not for me to be judged and So I had I had three books with me that I brought there and I gave all you know I gave three of them all and I I gave I said once for you

and one was for this other lady who was the hilarious older woman but I said I said you know I personally gonna give you a book I'd like for you to have it and afterwards so he was so grateful so appreciative because I singled him out so I was the speaker of a guest of honor and yet I'm calling him out to be like yeah I'm choosing you for whatever but then afterwards everybody's mingling and we're talking and I go up to him and he's saying thank you and I'm like you know man I said

That look like us I said, but we don't we don't fit into society too Well, and I said, you know, we got to stick together just to let you know that that we're like me and you we're the same way together now Not to say that I'm some fucking supermodel but like I had these nice Tweed tree pants on like patent leather shoes. I had a fucking vest I had this really nice sweat like I was I was you know, I again I was I was dressed up looking so here I am looking at this guy dressed all shop, you know, nice glasses nice would have a smelling good

George (01:50:40.441)
Trust the nines, man. Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:50:49.749)
Being like and this guy doesn't look like that in every aspect and me being like hey guys You know buddy people that look like us like I welcomed him in like you and I are the same and you saw him For the like he just needed some bro. Love. He just needed another guy To be like yeah, man like cool fucking out. I'll give you a book like I'll give you my phone number I'll like you're my friend why because you're a little bit you don't look like Tom Brady or the other jock and

George (01:51:02.529)
Yeah, yep.

Adam Butler (01:51:14.997)
So that six year old woman that I said you're beautiful say you're beautiful and then the crowd supported her and then this other guy who? Everybody probably made fun of him. It was like who the fuck is he I embraced him I said I'll be your friend and then I made him be like, you and I you're part of your we're this together and That's what I think if everybody can bring something like that to the table It's not what if you have a PhD or three-letter, you know thing at the end of your name It's if you can relate to people like that That's that's what we can do and

I've met so many people that have the same desire that I have and I'm learning from them. So it's not like I've got this superpower. like, yeah, I'm going to teach this method. It's natural and innate in everybody. Once that plaque gets removed, once you know yourself and love yourself, it becomes so easy to look at those people and be like, yeah, they're certainly not lesser than I'm certainly not greater than. And if I can give those person a few sincere, honest words. Now didn't lie to either one of those, those people, that guy or that woman, everything I said was true, honest, sincere. So when I said it, they knew it wasn't just some pleasantry.

George (01:51:52.014)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:52:13.926)
I can't wait to do that with a group of 500 to a group of 5,000 I can't wait to do that with the 10 next books and that's why I'm really passionate about being allowed to share my story on podcasts like you or yours but then also collaborating with the group that we're collaborating with because it's like get us on stage like let's like me and you on stage whether it be in Hawaii or in Rhode Island let's fucking do it because there are people that that will help and I'm not I'm not patting ourselves on the back I think we can save lives

George (01:52:27.779)
Yeah.

George (01:52:32.174)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:52:42.357)
And if we can do one, it's worth it. I think we can collectively, again, you get some of the people that we talk to and we're gonna be talking to later on this afternoon, you get some of those people on stage and man, they'll be able to rock it. And that's what I'm, I know I'm doing that and I'm collecting the resources myself, I'm collecting my own shit, like whatever, whether it be through them or not, I, we, this message will be on stage and it will help people.

George (01:53:07.959)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to that day. I think it's a, you you often hear the term, like the psychedelic Renaissance being thrown around. you know, we saw it at Psychedelic Science and there's all kinds of great events out there. But when I hear your story and so many people in the Psychedelic Writers Guild and so many people that we both know collectively, just being that beacon of light.

people in a room, whether it's at your workplace, whether it's in your family, whether it's volunteering at the Boys and Girls Club, wherever you're at, man, whatever you're doing. If you can be the light in the room, people will gravitate towards you and that light will change them. But it does come from alchemizing the tears, man. It's such a brilliant title and the more that we've talked, the more that I realize how brilliant that title is, man. It really fits you and I think it speaks to the community.

Adam Butler (01:54:01.079)
Fuck.

George (01:54:04.033)
You know, if you can alchemize the tears, then that's the one thing we all share is the pain.

Adam Butler (01:54:08.599)
Right, but now like, you know, my 17 year old niece who's who's in high school. She's not gonna have the same Tears to alchemize that I have as a 45 year old man and nor she am I expecting her to do DMT in shrooms to address it but the story of Everything we just discussed still applies and same thing to the you know, the person end of life who's in their 80s I'm not saying hey, let's send them all to an ayahuasca retreat, but it's Yeah, have let's again

George (01:54:28.675)
Right.

Adam Butler (01:54:35.767)
I know I've referenced it so many times. It was such a beautiful interview with Suzy Rose about how Allowing yourself to receive the grace and and just allowing to know that your work So I keep saying you know that you're worthy of the time and energy for yourself You're worthy of grace and if God is a word that you don't like or maybe then use infinite energy or universal source or whatever it is receive that something greater than and then know that you are way more than your physical body and and Yeah Enjoy life

George (01:54:40.025)
She's amazing.

George (01:55:03.065)
You know, it brings up another point that I think about and I'm like...

George (01:55:10.305)
As much as I would love psychedelics to be mainstream, I don't think it can ever be that way. I think that it exists on the peripheral. It exists beyond the pale because of all the work that you have to do. I'm not saying there's not a place for psychedelics and fun. I think the recreational aspect of psychedelics is a wonderful thing. Like going to a concert or doing something like...

Adam Butler (01:55:24.887)
Yeah, it's not a magic pill.

George (01:55:37.777)
I can't say enough. I think it's all medicinal, especially the recreational of it. for to be someone in my seat or your seat, it doesn't come without a lot of stigma. Like if you're come out and talk about psychedelics and you have kids or, know, it's, people look at you a little bit different. Like, dude, that guy's a drug addict.

That's what that person, even people in your own family, like, what the fuck is this guy doing? You know what I mean? So I want people to be aware out there that like the path of the psychedelics is definitely beyond the pale for some of them. And I don't see that ever changing. Am I being too pessimistic on that?

Adam Butler (01:56:17.749)
I think you're being realistic, but I think that's where true honest calm intelligent stories like we're sharing right now are helpful and so you know and you and and even saying hey listen to this story and you kind of be like wow that's a lot when I mentioned about the MDMA the LSD the the shrooms in the But now I came back and I told my parents that story and that was their response to was like wow you combined all of that but then you look on there on the counter and there's this

George (01:56:24.781)
Yeah.

George (01:56:32.985)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:56:45.449)
Eight different bottles of pills this this three SSRIs. There's two to keep them happy. There's three for glycerol cholesterol that it's like you're combining twelve every day I combined for one afternoon and maybe you'll do that once a year, you know So this idea of like taking drugs we all take drugs It's what are we calling them and and what are the pharmaceuticals? You know like that that's the and if we can go back to the honesty integrity character type thing

George (01:56:47.297)
Right. Right. Right. Right.

George (01:56:55.086)
Right?

Adam Butler (01:57:10.817)
Those pharmaceutical companies have a fiduciary fiduciary right to their short shareholders to increase profit and to make money, not to cure diseases. And that's right there in their business plan. They're not covering it. They're not hiding it. They're basically saying here, here are my boundaries. Here are my gates of clarity. We won't kill you, but we're not trying to help you. We're trying to keep you as a customer and make money. So for people not to see through that and to like, that's the society society's way of saying that's okay.

George (01:57:18.595)
Yep, agreed, agreed. All right.

Adam Butler (01:57:39.231)
Or that literally every fucking restaurant is based off of booze and most like every every social event every concert every sporting event It's just booze booze booze booze booze that that's fucked as but I'm not saying every place should be shrooms and smoke weed and walk around DMT, but It's to say that people are using substances

George (01:57:43.779)
Yeah.

George (01:57:56.953)
You

Adam Butler (01:58:02.519)
Like that these are wrong. So is caffeine. So is sugar. So is whatever, know like So it's just a matter of using them But now and I think your point and some people have said this so it well sounds like you were an alcoholic and you just you replace one addition for the other well if you've done DMT hundreds of times then what the fuck does that mean I? Said not and not that I need pushback isn't whatever fuck you I don't I don't need to prove my story and I'm not trying to convince anybody But like say say one of the things that and this happens often

George (01:58:17.241)
Mmm.

Adam Butler (01:58:30.869)
Not necessarily to me, but somebody finds Jesus Christ right they they find religion they find God That's who they relate to they're going now. They're to church on Wednesdays for whatever and then on Sunday Well you do that for two and a half three years you're going twice a week 52 times a week a year You just went to church 150 times so if I said I did DMT on 150 times in your same Well, that's excessive. Why would you need to do that once you've seen the DMT space you're there, right? Well, then why the fuck do you need to go to church two days a week? Why off for 30 years you've gone to church?

George (01:58:35.245)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (01:59:00.331)
Thousands of times it's because it's not what you've seen God once or interact with Jesus once and you're good It's like because you're going back there for that charge for that knowledge for that camaraderie for the for the singing of the song for the smelling of the incense for the for all for the ritual aspect of it and Clearly Christians different from Hindu is different from Islam is different from atheists is different from Gnostic, but they all have a component of taking time away from the day-to-day bullshit looking within

connecting with some sauce that's greater than yours and within and then actually integrating that into your life and yeah that that's that universal thread and message that I think is being pushed out of society and not haphazardly you know I think that's but that's where us truth-tellers and that's where again I'll I'll die on my my hill of integrity honesty character authenticity and fuck it

Again, I'll happily die on that stake. And when I do, you know, kind of pass my final breath, I'll be happy that I died on that, not look how much granite and marble I sold, look how many houses I had, or look how many houses I fucking rehabbed. I don't know, that's not what I'm trying to seek anymore.

George (02:00:19.618)
Do you think that you'll ever stop taking DMT?

Adam Butler (02:00:23.831)
I think I will never make any definitive statement ever again in my life about anything because as soon as you do Yeah But now there are times where I've gone months without it and really just kind of but then there'd be weeks where I've done it five times a week and that is just kind of when it when it calls to you, but I don't have I don't feel like I crave it need it or I've never been like fuck I need my DMT bump so and in to the point I mentioned earlier

George (02:00:32.045)
That's a good answer.

Adam Butler (02:00:53.619)
I know I can induce it naturally by just sitting and meditating and it's a drip in the back of your nose like you taste it. Like I taste DMT dripping in the back of my throat when I meditate to that level. So even if I didn't have a pipe, I'm still getting high on DMT. It's just my own.

George (02:01:09.581)
Yeah, my relationship with psychedelics has changed vastly over the last like 30 years, you know, and it started off as recreational and then, you know, I almost followed the, I almost followed the rules that you see like recreational, situational, but then, you know, for me it's changed later in life to be...

I don't think medicinal is the right word. It covers a lot of what it is for me, but maybe spiritual in some level. And I agree with what you're saying. You don't necessarily need it to get there. But for me, I see a long, continued relationship with psychedelics in my life. They have really helped me.

Embrace a full awareness of what's important to me and my family and my relationship with God and the world And I I love that relationship with them and it changes much like yours I've went through periods where there's been giant doses multiple times a week and I've gone through you know six months without using stuff and I've changed around different psychedelics, but I really feel like it helps me Get in tune

with the bigger picture, maybe my higher self or maybe the person that I want to be or maybe God itself. I really enjoy my relationship with psychedelics and I think that they're a tool, like you said, not for everybody, but I think they are for, I think it's a birthright and that I really enjoy my experience with them. And I think if people are...

do the research and they're willing to have the courage to try and they seek out all the resources and they're informed about it, it can be a tool that can really change your life for the better.

Adam Butler (02:03:03.383)
Absolutely and I would say most of the people that I'm interacting with are typically people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, even 70s where it's because everything else they've tried hasn't worked. It's the veteran who's been home for 10 years and still gets up every night because of the loud noises. It's the person that's been on SSRIs and still has the depressive anxiety and they've done that for 15 years. I think what this offers too is just

George (02:03:11.757)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:03:31.863)
An opportunity to try something new and at that point like in my case I had nothing to lose like if I didn't figure it out I was gonna go kill myself bottom line like so it was it fuck it like and I think not to say like try psychedelics cuz you've got nothing to lose But if you've tried the same medications the same whatever this it like well Maybe maybe it's time to take a step back and then I and I again I shared that story about my dad because if if that I changed at 40 It's never too late, and if he's able to come to this

George (02:03:34.435)
Yeah.

George (02:03:38.937)
All right.

Adam Butler (02:03:59.8)
truly this full life change in epiphany in his 70s. It really is never too late. But that also, he's a great example of getting that plaque out of your way. And actually, he had a therapy session where the doctors were talking about actual plaque, using that term in your brain. And I guess that there's two types of plaque, and it's basically just like protein deposits. But one of the types of plaque gets between the synaptic...

George (02:04:17.016)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:04:25.303)
So like the plaque stops the connection so it can't have a firing and then the other type of plaque I guess like actually congeals and clogs up the flow of certain liquids So, you know, it's yes, it's metaphorical but it's literal like there are plaques in your brain and throughout your body that that really needs to be shaken up and removed and Yeah, again multiple different modalities to do that but I think you know, and that's why I love having

collecting a group like this because my message isn't going to hit with everybody neither is yours neither is you know i me and tanya collective like will hit with with all of us sharing our voices in with with all of us sharing our stories i think that will change the stigma in the taboo and you know i mentioned that in the first article i wrote with for psa about that is in my opinion the biggest thing we need to do is is get work on that stigma and taboo yes legislature yes you know academics and and

access but that like when I told my sister I did DMT and she's like what is it I'm like di-methyltryptamine she's like you're doing meth like those are the conversations that we need to be like no Jessica nope nope it's just a methyl group that's added it's nothing you know but but but and then I think this is a perfect example of how that actually translates into real life my mother has been with me along this entire journey like when I was on the road we talked almost every day like she's

George (02:05:31.469)
Yeah.

No, no,

Adam Butler (02:05:49.687)
With my father like right so my mom as I mentioned in the beginning of that book my forever best friend my fucking rock Is she? Gonna do DMT of shrooms probably not do I push them on her nope do I think like hey mom your life would be so much better if you rip some DMT with me no like you know I wouldn't I would not do it with her, but She's she's expressed no desire to do it, and I'm certainly not gonna push that honor But when she goes and gets her hair done, and she's sitting there in the salon, and there's a group of five or six women

And every time she goes is another group of five or six women and I know her and the shop owner talk about me often and like her and I kind of have some I'm actually giving her a book soon and but I say that where my mom has been able to go there and say You know hey this ayahuasca stuff or this DMT stuff or you know that that show that you watch on 60 minutes about the ibogaine and that the PTSD and the you know This is real life. My son wasn't an alcoholic and then it's like she can go there and get her hair done in 45 minutes

George (02:06:35.437)
Yeah. Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:06:47.457)
You know share a five or ten minute story about me where then those people maybe when they hear the story about shrooms From their neighbor, you know, it isn't gonna be so judgmental And that's that's the importance of just spreading that ripple of stories where this isn't nasty. It's not dirty It's not dark. It's not ugly doesn't need to be done behind closed doors It's not shameful. It's it's beautiful. It's wonderful I mean if it can turn me this nasty dark piece of shit guy into this guy who's talking about spreading life and love and light and

George (02:06:51.406)
Yeah.

George (02:06:56.611)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:07:17.653)
like that that is not bad that that that is not bad and if it was all made up in my brain if it was all me hallucinating so be it it changed me and it made me a better man and not only me but you as well and it's it's helped a lot a lot of people

That's yeah, that that's the I'm sure this won't be the last time we'll be talking about this and I know this is the message that we're both really passionate about sharing because What's more important than that? Like there's plenty of people to sell marble and granite or to tell you how to invest in stocks or whatever There's plenty of people that can build you a deck I don't know. I I'm happy to be the guy to turn to and There's no one else to turn to like cuz you want to go fucking walk off into the woods. It's like alright cool I'll walk off into the woods with you. We'll go talk

And because I have the balls to do it because I'm not afraid of what's in the woods That's the point is that the scariest thing in those woods are within me and I've already named them befriended them and they're good like Those scary parts are there on command so you want me walking those woods with you because my scary parts will scare the shit out of the scary parts in those woods so But you know I say that I have control over that and that that's a great confidence to have and that applies if I'm at a bar in Boston that applies if I'm in the DMT realm or that applies if I'm on a road trip

George (02:08:06.626)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:08:32.567)
Yeah, I have that spatial awareness and confidence that, again, it's not an arrogance or a false sense of security. It's a knowing of who I am and I know what vibrates with me and what doesn't. And that's maybe the easiest way to actually visualize it. You know, you think about like tuning forks. If you bang a tuning fork and it's the same resin or the same frequency, the guitar string will vibrate or the tuning fork will vibrate. And it's like, once you know your core alignment and how your inner core vibrates,

George (02:08:52.729)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:09:02.519)
You when you go to pick like it's very easy Hey, is that resonating in in coherence with me or is it not or in or even worse? Is it you know? Anti and it's actually lessening my my coherence and it's almost like you don't even need to talk You can almost do it blindfolded like you literally can just walk around the world to be like am I humming higher louder? it's softer Am I like does this person make me feel really good or really bad does this am I sitting at this job? And it makes me feel fucking horrible every day, and I hate it here every day

George (02:09:13.185)
Right? Right?

George (02:09:25.005)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:09:31.415)
But then when I go to this job, it's like the best thing in the world. It's like well those those are the things you listen to so You know if you're going home every day and you see your spouse and you want to fucking puke? Or every time you see your boss you want to punch him in the face like get a new spouse and get a new boss Like and that's gonna be painful But that's what some people really need to hear because what's the alternative you stay in a marriage be a dick and then your kids watch you grow up and be an asshole like That's not gonna help anybody

George (02:09:45.955)
Yeah.

Yeah.

George (02:09:56.673)
Yeah. Yeah. Making friends with the monster, That's what it's about.

Adam Butler (02:10:01.567)
Yeah, naming him befriending him and and yeah not not running from him I'm happy with all my parts in my monsters And I'm I don't want any one of those things to go away even that thought that Doc scary part because God forbid I ever need him to show up again again if I'm walking through the proverbial dark forest or somebody You want those there? I want them there?

George (02:10:17.016)
Yeah.

George (02:10:20.673)
Yeah, yeah, back to integration. So when does that, you got three weeks or a couple weeks before that lines up, how does that shake out?

Adam Butler (02:10:26.037)
That's the next book, so that'll be out in a couple weeks.

Adam Butler (02:10:31.915)
So the editor has it right now. They're doing that the final edits, but it's already cover designs done the you know that the interior is all done. So it's Butler psychedelic integration field guide and then it's got a clever subtitle. What basically it's it's you know, practical advice on on meditation on prayer on integrating these lessons. Like what does that mean? Like some people don't even you know, they get can't meditate. I can't do yoga. I don't know how to pray. It's like it's not some set thing. Like you can't do it wrong.

You and that's that's that whole kind of book is about Again learning to be yourself leaning into that I did start the book off with the same chapter title as the DMT field guide Which is who the fuck am I? I think that vulgarity and that kind of like you really do need to start all these conversations of inter exploration of with Who the fuck am I and not and I with a pleading heartfelt on your knees crying like I really need to know who the fuck am I not some rhetorical bullshit question and

Yes, I'm really proud of the Field Guide. It goes deeper into some of the actual practical applications of taking this knowledge and applying it to your day-to-day life. And I've already started the next one in the Field Guide series after that because it's too relevant in my life, which is going to be Butler's Suicide Prevention Field Guide. And again, just practical. Not that I've got the answers and I've got, this will teach you, don't read my book and you won't kill yourself. It's just letting people know you're not alone. There are resources out there.

Inherit some modalities to you know make you see yourself in the divine beautiful light and I'm gonna share stories about you know like the ones that I just shared with you and If I can get those books out and then the children's sit series out to kind of say the same thing to a younger generation Then I think I can sit back and then whatever maybe Get back into the real world at some point, but I've got this is too fun helping people

George (02:12:19.458)
and you're good at it man, and you have the experience.

Adam Butler (02:12:20.575)
And I'm good at yeah, and I'm fucking and that's and this is where I'm finally saying that and like so like I was a straight-a student I was at the top of the game as a real estate investor at the top of the game as an inspector I was the top of the like I'm good at this and up and it's okay for me to say that and that's like

George (02:12:34.457)
You are.

Adam Butler (02:12:38.111)
It's taken a little bit for me to get comfortable with that because it's a hard thing to be good at like who the fuck wants to be the alchemist of tears like like to your point who the fuck wants to deal with like so when I get off the phone with you I've got you know a couple emails I'm gonna respond to that people that are talking about killing themselves like that that's a It's a heavy thing to do before you go to the gym It's not like I'm gonna go to the Martha's vignette and sell 30 grand with a marble to some rich lady who's cute who's wearing a sundress who wants me to come back over like it no I'm talking to some fucking drunk middle-aged guy who's like but

George (02:12:53.624)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:13:05.931)
I'm telling you, I'm getting more benefit out of that. And so that's what I'm leaning into.

George (02:13:11.112)
Yeah, well I'm glad you're doing it man and like you said this is a This definitely won't be our last conversation and and we've spoken a little bit about Tanya and we've spoken about Noah and Anybody out there listening there's another great podcast There's a bunch of them Clint Kyle's has a great podcast check him out Alex Deming has a great podcast You should be everybody should be reading Adam Miso's sub stack

There's so many great people in the psychedelic space that are really making a difference. so anybody else that we need to shout out there?

Adam Butler (02:13:45.648)
I I well we mentioned Mia potentially she's gonna be on our group again another so another just young woman again she wrote a book called Beauty and Grief who just turned tragedy of her in her you know younger years into something beautiful and it's these real-life stories that have to be told and I think and not there is a place for mainstream media there is a place for the Michael Pollans and the but with the names that are really you know popular out there but the names you just mentioned most people don't know most people don't know who the hell I am most people don't know who you are and

George (02:13:48.558)
Mia.

Adam Butler (02:14:14.487)
These are the stories that will hit. we ever become, I don't want to say it like that, I want to put a limit on ourselves. Like my goal isn't to become super popular and have millions of views on every one of my videos. My goal is to be the guy that's a reliable source of information and I'm super excited to collaborate with everybody because I think we all bring so much to the table. mean, there's movie makers, there's writers, there's podcasts, there's like, I'm just really excited to see how this can go and where it will go.

once we get some funding and some opportunity to actually put this shit together because it it resonate I haven't been done one speech or been on one thing or where it hasn't been emotionally connected and people like yes I want more of this not once so that the time is now

George (02:14:59.117)
Yeah, a couple of other great resources. Peggy Dippon, she's amazing. Jesse Munreal, unbelievable. Someone on the front lines helping people in addiction and doing some of her own writing. I'd be here all day listing people off out there, Adam, I'm super stoked you're here, man. I'm grateful for this conversation. Looking forward to carrying over our chat at this next meeting in a little while. One more thing before we go, I got the Instagram.

QR code down there, but if people are listening to this right now and they want to check out the books, they want to reach out to you, how do they do that? Where do they find you?

Adam Butler (02:15:31.799)
My email address is books by Adam Butler at gmail.com and I I always offer free PDF copies of my books again My goal is to get the message out there So I have the PDF copy of this coffee table book So if you just want to look at the pictures I can send you the link to that and then the you know that the field guide I can also send you that I'm most active on Instagram and again I change all my feeds to alchemist of tears. So that's kind of the brand I'm gonna try to be leaning into but I'm accessible I'm available

George (02:15:40.344)
Yeah.

Adam Butler (02:16:01.077)
If somebody feels like they want to talk to me personally, you know right now I have space in my calendar for that and it's something I really enjoy doing so I'm there, I'm available, I'm reachable.

George (02:16:12.248)
Alright ladies and gentlemen, reach out, check him out on Instagram, check out all of his books, they're amazing, you will definitely love them, and more than that you'll learn something. And hang on briefly afterwards, Adam to everybody else, thank you so much for hanging out with us today, I hope you have a beautiful day, that's all we got, aloha.

Adam Butler (02:16:26.967)
Thank you.