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Good morning, Grid connections listeners.

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In this episode, we are thrilled to have Francie Saunders, the always engaging host of the
Out of Spec podcast.

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We'll dive deep into Francie's background and learn how the Out of Spec podcast came
alive.

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Francie shares her personal journey with her own electric vehicle, the Vinfast VF8,
detailing the challenges she faced during the delivery and leasing process and her

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experiences road tripping in her EV.

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We discuss the critical importance of firsthand experience with EVs, especially for those
making decisions about regulations and infrastructure within the industry.

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It's always important to understand the actual pain points from the EV driving experience
behind the driver's seat.

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Francie's insights offer a unique perspective that underscores the need for practical
knowledge in shaping the future of electric mobility.

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If you find this episode insightful, we encourage you to share it with at least one other
person who would enjoy it as well.

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Don't forget to leave a positive review on our podcast page to help us reach more
listeners just like you.

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And with that, enjoy.

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just want to say thank you so much for coming on today, Francie.

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I really enjoyed being on your podcast yesterday and really looking forward to our
conversation today.

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Thank you for having me.

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Thanks for that intro.

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Yeah, it's fun to chat with another fellow podcaster in this space.

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And you obviously bring a really interesting perspective.

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yeah, I've been enjoying listening to your podcast as well.

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So happy to be here.

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Well, thank you, Francie.

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I just in the unlikely chance someone is not familiar here with you and your work.

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Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you try to do at the Out of Spec
podcast?

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Yeah, so out of spec studios in general is the big company, Kyle Connor started that years
ago now.

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And it has just blossomed into really, know, EV electric vehicle reviews, EV
infrastructure, charging reviews, how living with EVs, honestly, everything that touches

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EVs we've we've we're making content on because as the industry evolves and expands and
changes, there's a lot to look at

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One of the projects under the Out of Speck Studios is the Out of Speck Podcast.

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And that is what I was brought on almost nearly a year ago last September to run and
really to revive in a way.

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There's a ton to talk about when it comes to electric vehicles.

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As you know, it expands into the energy, renewable energy, road tripping, expert
interviews, battery technology, regulation.

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I mean, it's really all encompassing.

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I've been running the Out of Speck podcast as a way to get people not only breaking news,
but conversations about certain debates when it comes to electric vehicles, charging

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behavior, charging etiquette, stuff like that.

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And then also expert interviews for people in the space to give us insight into what is
really going on, what are the moving pieces that are making electric vehicle adoption.

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more and more attractive, how the grid is changing especially.

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So all of that.

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So I help host those conversations as well as bring information to anyone who is
interested.

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yeah, that's what I've been up to.

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We have daily content over there.

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So it's a lot.

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It's like I've been in university for the past year just studying everything.

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And it's been really fun actually.

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Yeah.

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No, I mean the, the videos and the interviews and everything you guys do, even when it's
just sometimes you talking about a topic is great.

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And like I even mentioned yesterday that, it's almost embarrassing for me.

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feel like I do a once a week podcast and then I see the work that you're doing and just
pumping them out daily.

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So I have mad respect for, not just what you're doing, the quality and the volume of what
you're doing, but let's, you know, and I think what's really cool about your podcast.

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Yeah, you're welcome.

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It's just the fact that you have a very, and something we kind of strive for here too, is
really approachable and trying to understand.

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Cause it is really easy to get them kind of a nerdy EV stuff real quickly.

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And I think a lot of our listeners do enjoy that, but it is also something where with a
lot of these topics and how they kind of all, overlap in the realm of electric vehicles

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and electric vehicle infrastructure, you have to have kind of a big picture and it's
really unlikely.

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someone is going to know a lot about all these different topics.

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And so you do a really good job of making it approachable and kind of giving a really
quick but strong base knowledge for what these topics are.

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And so I'm kind of curious about like, how did you get involved in this?

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I know you'd worked for a charge point operator previously, but even that connection to
the electric vehicle world, how you got into that.

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then I am just kind of curious to learn a bit more about how you even got roped in without
a spec in general.

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Yeah, it's a good question.

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Everyone has their journey and no, and mine has gone a lot of different directions.

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But you do note something that I'd like to comment on, which is how I try to make most of
our stuff approachable to anyone who's curious about the topic, while it is easy to get

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into the nitty gritty details.

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And we like that.

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And we like talking about the tech.

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Yeah, and getting really granular and nerdy about it.

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It's also, I've had people specifically reach out to say,

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I know that you could get into the weeds here, but I also appreciate coming at it from a
big picture because that's what's also been really rewarding about this work is being able

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to bring facts to anyone that I speak to with any sort of opinion or knowledge base or
lack thereof on electric vehicles and just share what I've learned in a way that is

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approachable.

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And that does kind of harken back to my background.

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I studied natural sciences in school.

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I studied biology really, and I taught a lot as well.

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So I was always a teacher's assistant in college and university, teaching assistant,
whatever they call it.

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And that was really fun.

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So I got to take these complicated concepts about science and communicate them to hundreds
of maybe even thousands of students and their different minds.

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And that was really fun for me to figure out how can I take this complicated topic and
make it so that anyone can understand it with their different background or the different

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way that they think about the world.

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So I was always passionate about

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conservation, really, sustainability.

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I specifically studied animal behavior.

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So it's like, how did she get over here?

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Well, after graduating, I worked in research and I do love research.

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I think research is awesome.

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But in the scientific and the academia realm, there's a lot of research that is done that
has amazing findings on even solutions to issues that exist in our world.

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But who's taking those solutions and putting them into action?

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So

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quickly and easily saw that business was a really great way to do that and try to make a
business model out of it, you know, find either find funds or create funds to alleviate

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some sort of issue in the world.

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So that led me on to more school where I studied sustainable enterprise with the more
entrepreneurship background.

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And that was really great.

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Colorado State University has a incredible program with a global student body, and it was
just really amazing.

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So after that, I got linked up with EVGO.

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So that is EV charging infrastructure.

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I think it was a cool opportunity to go into the business development side of things that
I found a strong suit in and got a great opportunity, had a great boss over there, Tony,

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who I think is still there.

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And that's when I first really got introduced to electric vehicle infrastructure.

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And it was interesting to get that background because now I look at things very big
picture.

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But to know how those teams are working to put in this infrastructure and what the
challenges are and what even the teams behind it all look like, I think gives me really

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cool insight when I'm talking about all this stuff.

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And I then got the opportunity to run this project with Kyle and without a spec.

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And I said, okay, that's very different from what I've been doing, but I have a creative
mindset and I want this challenge.

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I'm going to go after it and see what happens.

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And it's been a wonderful opportunity, met amazing people so far.

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And like I said, I've learned so much and it's been a real pleasure to do it.

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And I've loved how many people are so engaged and passionate about this topic, which I'm
sure that you experience as well.

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There are people who don't even drive electric, but want to know all of the details that
people are experiencing and the technicalities and how it's all evolving.

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It's quite an interesting study, in

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For sure.

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And I think that actually makes a lot more sense now because you're totally right.

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The way to approach it with not only just being open to it, but to go into the nitty
gritty, you do kind of need that academic and kind of teaching experience and to be able

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to do that effectively because, for sure.

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I think the, the downside, sometimes the academic world is you have a lot of great smart
people, but they're not always the best teachers, especially on the college

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And so it's really great to see someone who has both that balance of being able to teach
something and know the subject matter, but also to be an active learner.

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And sometimes that is not, that is one of the areas where a lot of people have struggled
in it.

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It's kind of interesting to hear your take on it.

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Cause that was one of the areas in my own kind of, school experiences where I kind of did
want to see something where it takes these learnings and these interesting topics, but

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also make it actionable in the real world.

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And went through account when entrepreneurship,

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school and program and also, Simone's arms myself.

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So I think that that's just awesome to hear.

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that I did not fully appreciate that.

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Now I think I understand why I've always enjoyed your content so much, but with that,
yeah, you're welcome.

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You're welcome.

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so how did you like looking at working with the charge point operator?

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What, what do you kind of going into that?

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I mean, you knew that obviously EVs there's environmental benefit, there's a business
model there,

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Can you share like what were the things that being new to really stood out to you or kind
of surprised you about that industry?

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Mm I think I did find it interesting the difference in responsibility, which is kind of
what we talked about on the podcast yesterday.

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working for a charge point operator, how this company was the one putting in the
infrastructure and even my job was making partnerships with the automakers as well.

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So the partnerships are a symbol of how a bridge had to be built to the automakers to
engage them.

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in the experience that their customers were having with EV charging.

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So I got to, I think, really learn from that point of view what's valuable to the
automakers.

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What do they think is valuable to their customers?

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What do they, which we can see publicly as well, but like what do they project as their
plans for their EV plans or yeah, like their future plans and how sometimes, and even

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their sales and

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there is a perspective from the charge point operator side of things that's like, okay,
well, we know at which pace these automakers are moving and they say they have these

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goals, but we have to see how they play out.

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So I think it was just the difference in perspective as well from what technically they
both had interest in, let's get this infrastructure up so people can have a good

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experience, but coming from very different side of things and different like bureaucracy
even, it was interesting to see how the decisions were made and.

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where the value was held on both sides.

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I think that was pretty enlightening because some automakers, as you know, have moved very
swiftly and have not only in making EVs, but also either building the infrastructure

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themselves or subsidizing it tremendously or not at all.

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And now we're seeing much more of a shift where everyone kind of wants to do that in terms
of the automakers.

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And I thought that was pretty interesting.

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And just honestly how I wasn't on the public policy team.

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or anything like that, but EVgo has a whole team that helps states understand the best
ways to fund EV infrastructure, build it out, write their NEVI plans and proposals and all

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of that.

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And there's people that are just really learning about all the policies that exist, the
ones that are not necessarily helpful to expanding infrastructure like this, but also the

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insight into this is why it takes so long.

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This is the permitting, like technically you could get a site up and running.

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if you didn't have to wait for permits or transformers maybe, but really insight into all
those timelines.

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So I think learning the complexity was very, very valuable in the process because from
this side of things, folks can just be like, well, why isn't it being built out?

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But as you and I know, there's a lot to work

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once you start learning this, you're like, okay, I get that some of these experiences that
EV drivers are having are kind of horrible.

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But at the same time, you're like, you realize the amount of not only different hoops that
have to be jumped through, but all of these unexpected challenges that are just behind the

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scenes that like, can't even talk about.

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I really like what you just kind of said there about from the charge point operator side,
because I think it's really cool to hear your perspective about because

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I think a lot of what we hear is usually a little bit more of the press release thing, or
it's either they just aren't saying much these days.

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And so I think it's a lot of it's known, but once again, it's just one part of the full
picture.

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And, I think like we were even talking about just having a series of breaking down all
these different ways you could look at the different topics.

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And yeah, we barely even scratch the charge point operator side of it.

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We were more time about utilities, but that was such a fun conversation.

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Can't talk about the question.

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We both get a

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about what is taking so long for these DC fast chargers to go on the ground.

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so I'm kind of curious, you mentioned, I mean, you started, so you did, you pretty much
came straight from the ChargePoint operator to Out ofSpec, correct?

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So really, as you mentioned, you've been doing the podcast for just under a year now.

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And I mean, once again, just to throw like so much credit to you, I think you've been
doing it for less than a year.

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I've been doing it off and on for four years and yet you've done way more episodes and
under here than I have.

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But what's really interesting is, can you share like those, a little bit more about what
it was that the automakers kind of were like sharing with you as to what they found

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important and not important.

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And in those essentially about three years between when you started that role and now have
you seen those automakers shift?

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in kind of their positioning of what is important to them and what they believe may be
important to their customers.

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Yeah, that's a great question because it definitely has shifted, I believe, because no one
knew anything and everyone was looking to each other for the expertise that would tell

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them this is worth the investment or this is what is going to pay off.

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But as we all kind of automakers initially, especially with Electrify America and
Volkswagen Group and all those brands under that car, free charging, unlimited charging.

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Right.

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this many years.

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And even Tesla did that with the supercharger network.

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And some people are still benefiting from that today.

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But I think those plans initially were like, OK, if we're going to sell the cars, let's
give them free charging.

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And the infrastructure is still kind of fresh.

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But as we've seen, there are consequences to that, not only from the behavior at the
chargers, but I think really understanding what is

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of best benefit to the customer.

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Like, do the customers really need free charging or do they need infrastructure that is
always reliable and where they want it to be?

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So I think in the beginning, it was like, yeah, make the incentives that come along with
the car really delicious so that folks will buy this electric vehicle over a Tesla,

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really.

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And I think the public opinion as well as probably the, you know, the private opinion has
changed where like maybe unlimited options aren't the best, maybe a credit.

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So you get

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this many dollars or this many kilowatt hours on a network of charging.

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Like here, we are investing a bit into your experience as a driver at charging.

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But I think that hopefully continues to shift more towards automakers don't need to just
pay for your charging.

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They need to be, like I said a bunch of times now, but like have skin in the game when it
comes to electric vehicle infrastructure.

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So I think I've seen that shift.

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But also there was a significant focus that I do think is maintained.

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that the access to dynamic data of basically where are these chargers, are they available,
what's their state of being at this point in time, and how can my customers access it

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without having to use a bunch of apps, that's still of interest.

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And I think, one, automakers really wanted to keep their drivers within their ecosystem.

197
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So if you're driving this brand of car, only using that branded app to do all of your
charging, like the Tesla.

198
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Again, not to reference them all the time, but they do set pretty good examples in a lot
of ways.

199
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And I think that's fine, but also we don't even need an app.

200
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feel like just the software focused vehicles with the best capability for plug and charge,
which are also waiting for standardization.

201
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So I think that focus was good and they were definitely open about that, but they often
were very intentional about the partnerships that they were making because I think

202
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those initial partnerships were like, yeah, let's go, let's throw in the unlimited
charging programs.

203
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But then they saw how quickly the market was changing and how it was a little bit
unpredictable on what was successful, not in terms and only in terms of their strategies,

204
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but also which charge point operators are doing the best work.

205
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How are they building it out?

206
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Sometimes automakers would think about their own charging hubs, like I want to build my
own charging hub.

207
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It's all branded.

208
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But then they'd be like, what is the price tag on that?

209
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I'm not so sure about that.

210
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Yeah, exactly.

211
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But now they're shifting, you know, with like, IANA or Mercedes putting a billion dollars
into their Mercedes Benz high power charging network, all of that.

212
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So I'm excited to see that shift.

213
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But it was interesting to see really where, like what kind of requests for proposals they
would put out and what kind of projects they were wanting to do.

214
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And then

215
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even like years later, they've actually when they've moved on those kind of things, it
seems they're they're a bit different.

216
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So I think they are being trepidatious, which is I think okay in this industry, I guess.

217
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What do

218
00:18:24,711 --> 00:18:30,711
Well, what I think is you just brought up like 12 ,000 different things we could discuss
right there, but that's super fascinating.

219
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I think the first thing, going back exactly to what you're telling about, about like the
actual charging experience.

220
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And one of the things I've said and kind of giving, once again, Tesla credit, and really
any, charging experience should be, you just plug in and walk away and it works because,

221
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this even kind of goes back to not look, not only the conversation we had yesterday, but
kind of like business one -on -one entrepreneurship, like for disruptive technology to

222
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take off, it doesn't have to be just as good.

223
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It has to be better.

224
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And for like the current system of just going up to a gas station, swiping your credit
card and you play a fuel your car.

225
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It's, it's not a hundred percent perfect, but it's pretty easy.

226
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The, the, the bar is easy for really anyone to do it.

227
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And so with the plugin charge, it's even easier.

228
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It's like you do it.

229
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You set it up once you walk away, plug in, you can go use the bathroom, do whatever and
not even have to think about

230
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However, and this kind of goes how we were talking about yesterday about like the
different phases of charging.

231
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talk about the app side and that is totally true.

232
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How there's been so many bad apps that you have to download.

233
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Then you have to put in your credit card.

234
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It doesn't have like Apple pay or Google pay.

235
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So you have to like do all this stuff, go through all these steps and then it crashes.

236
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And then I even remember how a lot like the old level two and some of the early DC fast
charges didn't even have an app.

237
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had like, have to have the RFID card to make it work and unlock it.

238
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And then it charged you at a certain rate.

239
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Now I just feel

240
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That's been like over a decade of just Tesla kind of started what they're doing.

241
00:19:53,603 --> 00:20:02,600
It's been working and we're now just finally seeing through some of it being
standardization and things that did kind of need to happen, but finally kind of getting

242
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onto this more universal.

243
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even then a lot of the EVs and cars still coming out can't support it, which is really
unfortunate.

244
00:20:10,026 --> 00:20:14,809
So that is one thing that just when you talked about there really comes to mind.

245
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And then I think, I think a second part too was.

246
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You kind of talk about how these perspectives of the automakers have shifted.

247
00:20:22,551 --> 00:20:24,962
And you also talk about like good or bad.

248
00:20:24,962 --> 00:20:29,244
The autumn, the automotive industry is known for moving pretty slow, pretty glacially.

249
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And it's kind of been pulled into this new era of having to do EVs.

250
00:20:34,235 --> 00:20:43,830
then now, as we also talked about yesterday, having to figure out charging infrastructure,
it's become clear they can't have the same old model of just having gas stations.

251
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They have to have the,

252
00:20:47,043 --> 00:20:53,168
actual fueling and kind of charging experience kind of thought out actually for these EV
owners.

253
00:20:53,168 --> 00:20:55,220
But I am kind of curious bringing that topic up.

254
00:20:55,220 --> 00:21:02,086
We've been getting obviously the big narrative, this kind of year so far as EV sales are
crashing.

255
00:21:02,086 --> 00:21:06,510
No one's actually moving EVs, but I'm, I am kind of curious.

256
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:13,085
Like once you start pulling back the numbers, the EV growth as a percentage is still
growing at a pretty good clip.

257
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this recent quarter just

258
00:21:15,437 --> 00:21:20,549
Evie's aside, a lot of automakers had a really bad quarter.

259
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:27,782
And I'm not just, I like combustion vehicles, like a lot of these Ford and Nissan had
really bad quarters with some of these announcements kind of coming out for their

260
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financials.

261
00:21:29,173 --> 00:21:38,857
And so I'm kind of curious with some of the contacts, maybe you still have, are you seeing
automakers again, change their perspective and are you hearing kind of them maybe slowing

262
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down or kind of backpedaling a little bit in some of these.

263
00:21:43,439 --> 00:21:47,725
ways they're going about charging infrastructure and just EVs in general, unfortunately.

264
00:21:47,746 --> 00:21:58,119
yeah, I totally I mean, I've covered some of those like headlines and broken down what's
really happened because a lot of the headlines are like Ford divests and delays their

265
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battery manufacturing plan or their EV production plan.

266
00:22:01,150 --> 00:22:14,073
And they I mean, it is kind of a tough time in the economy and especially over the past
year, where it seems like a lot of automakers again had like lofty goals, big goals, big

267
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investments that they either said they were doing or

268
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:22,012
doing and then they were like, wait, let's actually, yeah, pump the brakes.

269
00:22:22,153 --> 00:22:34,179
Not necessarily, I think, as we know from the numbers that the market is tanking or
anything or that people don't want EVs, but I think more again to reprioritize exactly how

270
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we should build it up because like Tesla, for instance, they started with the cars and now
they basically, I mean, from my point of view, like we're able to sell millions and

271
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millions of Teslas and now kind of

272
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the part of their business that is like Tesla power with the batteries and the solar and
everything, this more expensive side maybe and let that grow up and now drop the prices in

273
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the EV.

274
00:22:57,170 --> 00:23:04,113
So basically it's like, you know, kind of looking at what can really benefit us right now
and thinking long -term.

275
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So I think that did those headlines where some automakers have delayed production, stuff
like that.

276
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It doesn't help, especially when people hang on to headlines.

277
00:23:15,684 --> 00:23:19,858
or little clips so deeply in their opinion about things lately.

278
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So I do love the chance to break those down and analyze them.

279
00:23:23,381 --> 00:23:36,502
And I think that that's okay to happen because I do think automakers should be
prioritizing things most effectively so that they're building quality stuff and not

280
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rushing to get something to market and actually not having it be a good product because
we've seen that too, where EVs have come out and we've been

281
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Are you sure you were done?

282
00:23:45,938 --> 00:23:48,938
Is this supposed to come out yet?

283
00:23:48,938 --> 00:23:56,552
perfect example of that is the podcast you recently did with Jordan about kind of Toyota
and some of their announcements and the EVs they've brought to market of just being

284
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really, unless you were just that sold on the brand and just need a second car for around
town, it really misses the market.

285
00:24:04,826 --> 00:24:12,931
a lot of things that a modern EV really needs to have and kind of doesn't a hundred
percent aligned with the messaging they're making as a company and where they want to move

286
00:24:12,931 --> 00:24:13,211
to.

287
00:24:13,211 --> 00:24:17,275
There, there was just a lot, there was a lot of really interesting things that I think

288
00:24:17,275 --> 00:24:24,365
Probably people who follow the automotive industry have seen, but I really appreciate just
the recent summary you guys had done on that.

289
00:24:24,688 --> 00:24:25,058
Thanks.

290
00:24:25,058 --> 00:24:43,751
Yeah, that's a point of curiosity there for sure, which is Toyotas and even Subaru,
Honda's approach a bit to electric, which is not as full -fledged forward as some other

291
00:24:43,751 --> 00:24:45,893
automakers have been with like, here's a lineup.

292
00:24:45,893 --> 00:24:47,914
We're really trying to make these cars great.

293
00:24:47,914 --> 00:24:50,336
It's more like, okay, we put one out on the market.

294
00:24:50,336 --> 00:24:53,498
And then there's interesting things to see regulation

295
00:24:53,702 --> 00:25:05,072
For instance, it's coming out of California where they are pushing for all new vehicle
sales by 2035 to be electric, but they are imposing certain guidelines as well.

296
00:25:05,072 --> 00:25:10,122
Like the battery has to last this many miles or this amount of time and it has to be this
big.

297
00:25:10,122 --> 00:25:16,222
And basically thinking about state of health as well, which is also forward thinking and
considering the consumer.

298
00:25:16,222 --> 00:25:21,414
So it's interesting to see that play where it's like, yeah, you're gonna be, if you're
gonna wanna sell cars,

299
00:25:21,414 --> 00:25:27,583
in that state, they're going to have to be electric, but you can't just put anything on
the road, which is a cool take too.

300
00:25:27,583 --> 00:25:31,549
But yeah, it's been interesting to see how the automakers have gone about it.

301
00:25:31,549 --> 00:25:36,155
I would love to see more small EVs.

302
00:25:37,216 --> 00:25:38,063
What about you?

303
00:25:38,063 --> 00:25:41,025
I think I agree with that.

304
00:25:41,826 --> 00:25:44,637
and I think there's been some interesting ones actually made.

305
00:25:44,637 --> 00:25:48,009
They're just not here in the U S they're usually in Europe or China.

306
00:25:48,609 --> 00:25:51,191
but now let's, I'm curious, why don't you, why don't you kind of go with that?

307
00:25:51,191 --> 00:25:58,735
What, are some things that would either be in kind of your ideal small EV or things, other
EVs you've seen that, you'd really like to see

308
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:10,846
I walking around, I got to go to France earlier this year and being in the city of Paris
was really fun because there are EVs everywhere, not only from like the VW ID buzz, which

309
00:26:10,846 --> 00:26:11,526
is fun and cool.

310
00:26:11,526 --> 00:26:15,639
And it's not small, I'll admit, but it's it's cool.

311
00:26:15,639 --> 00:26:20,041
And and and Mercedes vans, Vans, there are so many of those.

312
00:26:20,041 --> 00:26:29,466
like the tiny little cars like this, the Amis, the Citroen Amis, which are basically like
shoeboxes on wheels that run on electric, I think.

313
00:26:29,466 --> 00:26:37,415
Those are such city cars that unfortunately they don't really tend to fit in our culture
for some reason.

314
00:26:37,576 --> 00:26:39,778
But I would love to see those small options.

315
00:26:39,778 --> 00:26:49,868
And it does seem a bit more European though, like the Fiat 500E and I mean the Twizy
isn't, I don't even know if that's really considered a car or not, or if it's just a.

316
00:26:49,868 --> 00:26:53,324
almost on the edge of like a high -end electric golf cart.

317
00:26:53,324 --> 00:26:53,984
Exactly.

318
00:26:53,984 --> 00:26:54,555
Yeah.

319
00:26:54,555 --> 00:26:58,806
So I think things like that, but those are kind of very the micro like the microlini.

320
00:26:58,806 --> 00:26:59,927
They're very micro.

321
00:26:59,927 --> 00:27:07,179
And I think something in between, I mean, the like the maybe the crossover size as well.

322
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,221
I'm not like the VINFAST VF8 that I've been able to drive around.

323
00:27:11,221 --> 00:27:12,772
I think like that's a good size.

324
00:27:12,772 --> 00:27:13,862
It's not huge.

325
00:27:13,862 --> 00:27:17,924
It's not the most impressive EV, but you can fit.

326
00:27:17,924 --> 00:27:22,916
It's like the Subaru Outback size, which is what I've been driving for many, many years
now.

327
00:27:22,916 --> 00:27:25,018
that you can do anything and you can get anywhere.

328
00:27:25,018 --> 00:27:32,234
You can have a family, you can have dogs, but you can also just be one person and not feel
like you're taking up the whole road that in between space.

329
00:27:32,234 --> 00:27:34,165
But I think there's more and more competition here.

330
00:27:34,165 --> 00:27:44,724
But of course, in China with like BYD and all those cars and their market competition that
has just been like going over and over in that market because they've been kind of insular

331
00:27:44,724 --> 00:27:47,466
as they can't come into the US really.

332
00:27:47,466 --> 00:27:48,898
That's been cool to see as well.

333
00:27:48,898 --> 00:27:51,269
So would love to see

334
00:27:52,044 --> 00:28:02,284
The trucks are cool, the SUVs are cool, but this middle ground becomes stronger because I
think that's more of what people want as well.

335
00:28:02,885 --> 00:28:06,127
Yeah, I think it's just, it kind of just depends on the situation.

336
00:28:06,127 --> 00:28:08,939
And I just had a, couldn't remember the name of it.

337
00:28:08,939 --> 00:28:14,552
I thought it was that, but the Honda E I've always thought it's a really cool, small
electric vehicle.

338
00:28:15,083 --> 00:28:24,719
but it's not here in the U S I think some of the challenges with some of these smaller
ones obviously have been safety, but then a lot of it is just, market demand for those

339
00:28:24,719 --> 00:28:27,503
usually aren't that great.

340
00:28:27,503 --> 00:28:35,395
I think one of the older EVs that's a small that is actually an awesome, I've always had
an awesome one, but it's so ugly is the BMW i3.

341
00:28:35,395 --> 00:28:36,086
It drives great.

342
00:28:36,086 --> 00:28:40,447
It's actually super safe because it's all a carbon fiber.

343
00:28:40,747 --> 00:28:48,019
And I think got a lot of hate, but if you've ever actually driven one or use them around,
like especially in a urban environment, they're so easy to just drive.

344
00:28:48,019 --> 00:28:51,551
But obviously then their Achilles heel is the longer range.

345
00:28:51,551 --> 00:28:52,971
So I think there

346
00:28:53,723 --> 00:29:02,527
This is always kind of like the interesting dichotomy that like, especially car
enthusiasts and like people, there is a group of people that live in cities, but like the

347
00:29:02,527 --> 00:29:14,431
actual buying size, at least speaking of North America is always just never, at least not
in the recent decade or two been enough for like small cars to make enough of a comeback.

348
00:29:14,572 --> 00:29:21,154
And it would be interesting to see maybe a brand or some just like focus purely on that,
domestically.

349
00:29:21,174 --> 00:29:22,835
mean, right now.

350
00:29:23,207 --> 00:29:24,587
I mean, yeah, the I three isn't made anywhere.

351
00:29:24,587 --> 00:29:29,067
So like a small car is like the model three or something like that.

352
00:29:29,067 --> 00:29:31,847
And in a lot of ways it's really not that small.

353
00:29:31,847 --> 00:29:41,707
But, if I was to choose one for here, yeah, I think that probably would be just like my go
-to for like a daily driver, just fun, fast, sporty, but also kind of go into what you're

354
00:29:41,707 --> 00:29:41,827
saying.

355
00:29:41,827 --> 00:29:45,447
Like traditionally, I also had a bunch of super outbacks growing up.

356
00:29:45,487 --> 00:29:51,147
I drove one until like a hit 326 ,000 miles and just finally broke on the side of a
highway.

357
00:29:51,367 --> 00:29:52,507
And

358
00:29:53,911 --> 00:29:56,512
it's like probably also really ugly.

359
00:29:56,792 --> 00:29:59,634
But it's probably the most utilitarian vehicle there is out there.

360
00:29:59,634 --> 00:30:02,775
Good gas mileage, good ground clearance, so can do a lot of stuff.

361
00:30:02,775 --> 00:30:06,116
And like you say, great for dogs, great for Home Depot runs and all that stuff.

362
00:30:06,116 --> 00:30:12,459
But at the same time, I'm really happy to while they're not fully optimized yet, I think
there's still big headwinds.

363
00:30:12,459 --> 00:30:22,362
It's really great to see more SUV, electric SUV and electric truck options just because
there do need to be electric options for every part of the market.

364
00:30:22,362 --> 00:30:22,933
Mm -hmm.

365
00:30:22,933 --> 00:30:31,226
is kind of funny because there are now electric, large electric vehicles and that small
kind of area hasn't, still kind of missing.

366
00:30:31,226 --> 00:30:33,507
I think the closest thing we really have.

367
00:30:34,127 --> 00:30:38,369
mean, there was also the bolt for a while, but right now that's going to have production
too.

368
00:30:38,369 --> 00:30:43,791
So it's kind of like model three and stuff around that size, but there really isn't too
much

369
00:30:44,791 --> 00:30:53,863
it is interesting because if I start to think about it in our like, we love road trips,
you and I personally, but also generally the people in the US and in North America, we

370
00:30:53,863 --> 00:30:56,684
love our road trips, we'll go as far as we can.

371
00:30:56,684 --> 00:31:05,636
So if you start thinking about the smaller size, obviously, you're limited by range due to
just, you know, the inherent specs of something that's small.

372
00:31:05,636 --> 00:31:12,198
So you might as well go big so that those one even if it's just once a year that you do
the road trip, you can do it versus

373
00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:21,678
other countries and especially Europe that has incredible public transport systems that
mean that you can get really far and you don't need a car.

374
00:31:21,778 --> 00:31:27,303
And when you're in your city or whatever it is, or just bopping around, you can enjoy a
smaller car.

375
00:31:27,303 --> 00:31:35,330
I think that I wonder how much that plays in, but I'm sure it's, I mean, we don't have
like trains all over quite like

376
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:46,703
I mean, that is a whole podcast or podcast series right there about essentially you go
back and I mean, this is a very few people really know about this, but that's like a big

377
00:31:46,703 --> 00:31:58,507
reason I don't want to ever drive a Chevy or GM product is because of what like happened
with them and staring oil to rip up so many of the train tracks and kind of local smaller.

378
00:31:59,335 --> 00:32:04,195
kind of commuting public options that was, think, back in essentially the fifties.

379
00:32:04,195 --> 00:32:09,935
And I know that's a really kind of bizarre chip to have on a shoulder, but it totally is a
thing.

380
00:32:09,935 --> 00:32:15,005
I love trains and all this stuff and it is great to like travel the Europe and you see so
many of the options that they have there.

381
00:32:15,005 --> 00:32:21,595
And especially not only is it reliable, but it's, if you miss one, it's not going to be
eight hours till the next one or something.

382
00:32:21,595 --> 00:32:26,837
It's like, it might be 15 minutes and that makes it much more practical.

383
00:32:27,355 --> 00:32:35,917
having said that there is also kind of the double -edged sword of like the Americana
mindset of just the freedom of having that vehicle, having that SUV or whatever to go

384
00:32:35,917 --> 00:32:37,158
wherever you want.

385
00:32:37,218 --> 00:32:39,428
And you're right, there is kind an interesting balance.

386
00:32:39,428 --> 00:32:41,889
Like that's why I really enjoyed road tripping.

387
00:32:41,889 --> 00:32:43,060
Don't get me wrong.

388
00:32:43,060 --> 00:32:51,102
I would love it had like a little bit more range and charged faster, but that is what's
kind of like the right thing about the Model Y is it's still really aerodynamics.

389
00:32:51,102 --> 00:32:55,523
You get pretty good range, pretty good efficiency, still plenty of room for stuff.

390
00:32:56,155 --> 00:33:00,138
without it being like too big and still kind of drives fun, but you're right.

391
00:33:00,138 --> 00:33:10,806
There's still, we're still kind in this, I think when it comes to the actual electric
vehicles, we might be in like the fourth inning to use a sports metaphor and in some of

392
00:33:10,806 --> 00:33:18,441
these other stuff, like seeing like electric semis and even electric trucks, I think those
are more like the first inning or something.

393
00:33:18,441 --> 00:33:23,715
There's still little ways to go to kind of polish those and get those completely delved in
and at scale.

394
00:33:24,098 --> 00:33:25,209
Mm -hmm, totally.

395
00:33:25,209 --> 00:33:37,570
Yeah, and even I've seen folks approach the the semi is interesting because it's this
medium and heavy duty trucks that are obviously hard to electrify, but they have the

396
00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:39,551
biggest impact when it comes to emissions.

397
00:33:39,551 --> 00:33:41,253
So we'd love to do that.

398
00:33:41,253 --> 00:33:49,290
But then like one company range energy, like they're working with the propulsion of the
the trailer behind the semi.

399
00:33:49,290 --> 00:33:52,154
So that can be electric and you can.

400
00:33:52,154 --> 00:33:59,578
push the semi forward and it's like, yeah, they're still in the first inning figuring out,
okay, what is the best approach?

401
00:33:59,578 --> 00:34:01,118
Is it making a cab?

402
00:34:01,118 --> 00:34:04,710
Is it making the semi, the engine and turning it electric?

403
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:09,422
Or maybe we look to back of it and see how we can apply it that way.

404
00:34:09,455 --> 00:34:17,447
Yeah, I think there's definitely some advantages just to doing the trailer electrified
because, well, it's not fully electrifying the system.

405
00:34:17,447 --> 00:34:21,178
There's some huge, pollution and kind of other things that are unlocked.

406
00:34:21,178 --> 00:34:26,200
And it's a really great stepping stone to really make people more comfortable with the
technology.

407
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,841
And I think get them on the road faster.

408
00:34:29,021 --> 00:34:30,611
And I think it's kind of interesting.

409
00:34:30,611 --> 00:34:37,083
was doing an article recently, kind of looking at the hyped up pros of hydrogen and their

410
00:34:37,134 --> 00:34:38,595
practicalities and the realities of them.

411
00:34:38,595 --> 00:34:42,715
And I was going through all these articles that were like two decades old saying, it's 10
years away.

412
00:34:42,715 --> 00:34:46,775
And it's like, well, now it's been more than 10 years and we know it's not that close.

413
00:34:46,915 --> 00:34:54,555
And obviously kind of the big discussion lately has been hydrogen for trucking and there's
some use case, but God, the more I looked at, realized, wow, it is not a strong argument

414
00:34:54,555 --> 00:34:59,515
because the energy density of hydrogen has always been, it's kind of a keely seal.

415
00:35:00,275 --> 00:35:06,821
and so, or everyone always talks about the, energy density by weight.

416
00:35:06,856 --> 00:35:09,756
where it's like, yeah, there's, it's kind of an interesting thing.

417
00:35:09,756 --> 00:35:13,456
But when you start actually looking at the practicality of it, you have to have these
massive tanks.

418
00:35:13,456 --> 00:35:15,836
You're not actually getting that much range.

419
00:35:15,836 --> 00:35:22,126
so even a hydrogen truck, while it may refuel faster, it still has to go.

420
00:35:22,126 --> 00:35:25,356
It can only go about 500 miles before it has to stop.

421
00:35:25,596 --> 00:35:32,636
And that's kind of where we are with like the Tesla semi and some of the upcoming battery
electric semis

422
00:35:33,261 --> 00:35:41,703
while there's still some of the missing infrastructure for that, that still seems like a
much clearer future and picture than all this hydrogen refueling and the majority of

423
00:35:41,703 --> 00:35:44,584
hydrogen anyway, not being made in a cleaner, sustainable way.

424
00:35:44,584 --> 00:35:46,055
So what's the point?

425
00:35:46,955 --> 00:35:52,997
From the infrastructure side to that, it's just, it's, it was just really fascinating to
have that conversation again.

426
00:35:52,997 --> 00:36:01,287
And when it looks, when you look at that industry, and coincidentally, a in mind, he lives
in the Midwest and sells Volvo trucks, he moved out there.

427
00:36:01,287 --> 00:36:02,487
And so he's like in it.

428
00:36:02,487 --> 00:36:08,127
He knows like he's as he, I mean, he's one of those funny guys that says like, I never get
an EV, but I might get a Tesla.

429
00:36:08,127 --> 00:36:09,087
Those are kind of cool.

430
00:36:09,087 --> 00:36:18,587
And it's like that kind of mindset where I like talking with him because it is more like
as far out there as he can in a lot of ways, but it kind of gives you just kind of the

431
00:36:18,587 --> 00:36:23,227
skeptic approach, but also like what's the reality and what is actually needed for
trucking.

432
00:36:23,227 --> 00:36:29,439
And so like a modern semi obviously can go like if you get like fully decked out, yeah, it
can go like 1500 miles.

433
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:36,859
But with modern regulation of truck drivers, it's like, actually, if you can hit that like
five to 600 mile mark, they have to stop anyway.

434
00:36:36,859 --> 00:36:40,219
And they have to stop for 30 minutes and it kind of does align well with that charging.

435
00:36:40,219 --> 00:36:43,339
so you get that infrastructure kind of match point.

436
00:36:43,539 --> 00:36:45,979
But, that's a whole nother podcast.

437
00:36:45,979 --> 00:36:50,949
I guess we're talking about cars and what we found really interesting electrified.

438
00:36:50,949 --> 00:36:56,889
I don't know if there's anything else you want to add to that, but I, I really want to
hear your experience with your own electric vehicles.

439
00:36:56,889 --> 00:36:59,857
Cause you have a very unique.

440
00:37:00,213 --> 00:37:09,250
not just car, but everything from the buying and driving it day to day has been pretty
different than I think what most people are familiar

441
00:37:09,562 --> 00:37:10,072
Totally.

442
00:37:10,072 --> 00:37:14,035
Yeah, one comment on the hydrogen thing is it is crazy.

443
00:37:14,035 --> 00:37:17,656
It's like the highest energy density by mass of any known substance.

444
00:37:17,656 --> 00:37:20,178
Of course, we want to explore that.

445
00:37:20,178 --> 00:37:24,510
I, as like with my scientist background, try everything, right?

446
00:37:24,510 --> 00:37:26,481
And have a realistic point of view.

447
00:37:26,481 --> 00:37:28,322
Like, where could this actually be applied?

448
00:37:28,322 --> 00:37:29,463
Is it passenger vehicles?

449
00:37:29,463 --> 00:37:30,694
I don't know.

450
00:37:30,694 --> 00:37:31,514
Probably not.

451
00:37:31,514 --> 00:37:33,455
And, you know, there's a lot of work to do there.

452
00:37:33,455 --> 00:37:36,837
So I think some people are like, why are we even trying?

453
00:37:36,837 --> 00:37:38,318
Because it's cool.

454
00:37:38,318 --> 00:37:39,130
because we should.

455
00:37:39,130 --> 00:37:39,800
But.

456
00:37:40,709 --> 00:37:41,789
And I, and don't get me wrong.

457
00:37:41,789 --> 00:37:50,986
I think there's definitely a point for, hydrogen like green hydrogen as a color, but it
just seemed like the more I did check it again recently, the only use cases I could see

458
00:37:50,986 --> 00:37:56,700
was like heavy manufacturing where you have plenty of space to store all these hydrogen,
which needs to figure out.

459
00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:59,121
there are economic reasons for going that for them.

460
00:37:59,121 --> 00:38:04,615
So like that made sense, but for transportation, it just kind of runs into a of these
issues.

461
00:38:05,306 --> 00:38:07,887
yeah, I guess that that could be its own podcast.

462
00:38:07,992 --> 00:38:08,762
Yeah, it could.

463
00:38:08,762 --> 00:38:09,242
It could.

464
00:38:09,242 --> 00:38:14,965
And so I just think the general approach is like that we get to take is being curious
about it.

465
00:38:14,965 --> 00:38:16,896
Like, why would people want to try it?

466
00:38:16,896 --> 00:38:20,358
And then, yeah, is it really is it really here?

467
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,071
But and you also talked about talking with your friend who, you know, works in the
trucking industry.

468
00:38:25,071 --> 00:38:30,224
And again, I just want to highlight how fun it is because we get all the facts from the
work that we do.

469
00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:34,846
And then we can come just with that point of view and be able to hear

470
00:38:34,938 --> 00:38:41,463
objectively and like unbiased and be like, okay, and here's my input based on the facts
that I know.

471
00:38:41,463 --> 00:38:43,865
And again, I just think that that's so fun.

472
00:38:43,865 --> 00:38:52,090
But yeah, speaking of that, I get to give my honest input on the Vinfast VF8 that I have
been driving around.

473
00:38:52,391 --> 00:38:57,875
Like I said, I had a Subaru Outback and I haven't had the chance to, or I had not had the
chance.

474
00:38:57,875 --> 00:38:59,356
I've driven plenty of EVs.

475
00:38:59,356 --> 00:39:01,497
We have Teslas in the family

476
00:39:02,446 --> 00:39:05,688
I'm obviously familiar with electric vehicles, but own my own?

477
00:39:05,688 --> 00:39:07,429
Not quite.

478
00:39:07,630 --> 00:39:14,155
sometimes that is, know, folks just don't have the financial freedom to buy a new electric
vehicle.

479
00:39:14,155 --> 00:39:22,461
Maybe they're apprehensive, but electric vehicle leases, I'm sure as you've seen, have
been sometimes crazy, crazy cheap.

480
00:39:22,461 --> 00:39:24,227
There's like, yeah.

481
00:39:24,227 --> 00:39:31,492
that one in Colorado for the Nissan Leaf and I, think personally, financially, I'm never a
fan of leases, but that one, what was it again?

482
00:39:31,492 --> 00:39:32,582
Do you know?

483
00:39:32,582 --> 00:39:41,284
The Nissan Leaf, it was like 2024 to and trim S and it was advertised as like twenty
dollars a

484
00:39:41,284 --> 00:39:42,250
Yeah.

485
00:39:42,854 --> 00:39:44,674
for like zero dollars down or something.

486
00:39:44,674 --> 00:39:46,517
I mean, absolutely crazy.

487
00:39:46,517 --> 00:39:50,370
home for the electricity and everything, it just like, okay, yeah, why wouldn't you try

488
00:39:50,586 --> 00:39:54,398
yeah, get some solar on your roof if you're lucky and then put in an EVSE.

489
00:39:54,398 --> 00:39:57,279
Yeah, and just absolutely it could.

490
00:39:57,279 --> 00:40:03,301
I mean, it's not free and we've broken down the cost analysis, but it's it is a very, very
inexpensive car.

491
00:40:03,301 --> 00:40:08,293
And yeah, I think most people wouldn't recommend leasing things in general.

492
00:40:08,293 --> 00:40:10,894
Like sometimes it's great to be getting that equity.

493
00:40:10,894 --> 00:40:13,576
I do love to argue that with EVs.

494
00:40:13,576 --> 00:40:14,186
I don't know.

495
00:40:14,186 --> 00:40:17,597
Maybe a lease is quite free, especially if it's inexpensive.

496
00:40:17,597 --> 00:40:19,958
And as we've seen, the technology

497
00:40:20,710 --> 00:40:24,228
exponentially advancing at a crazy rate.

498
00:40:24,228 --> 00:40:28,609
those people who are on the fence, it is kind of a easy way to give it a try.

499
00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:31,183
So I completely agree until I understand that.

500
00:40:31,183 --> 00:40:32,884
Yeah, that's what I've been doing too.

501
00:40:32,884 --> 00:40:36,776
It's so fun because people will call me and they're like, I'm thinking of getting a new
car.

502
00:40:36,776 --> 00:40:41,729
And I'm like, well, and they're like, I don't know if I want to go hybrid or plug -in
hybrid or electric.

503
00:40:41,729 --> 00:40:43,330
I'm like, lease an electric car.

504
00:40:43,330 --> 00:40:43,940
Try it.

505
00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:44,931
You could just try it.

506
00:40:44,931 --> 00:40:45,621
It's temporary.

507
00:40:45,621 --> 00:40:47,102
You never have to go to the gas station.

508
00:40:47,102 --> 00:40:48,393
You can charge it home.

509
00:40:48,393 --> 00:40:50,975
Hey, this one's got crazy leases so far.

510
00:40:50,975 --> 00:40:52,035
So that's been fun.

511
00:40:52,035 --> 00:40:57,390
And I think it is like a way to dip your toe in the waters and come out two, three years
later.

512
00:40:57,390 --> 00:41:04,139
and be able to make an even more informed decision on what EV you want to buy if you want
to buy one by then.

513
00:41:04,139 --> 00:41:10,838
And then fast, there was a dealership in North Carolina earlier this year that had a
limited time.

514
00:41:10,838 --> 00:41:11,881
Then fast.

515
00:41:11,881 --> 00:41:14,834
that have tell us more about this Vinfast company.

516
00:41:14,834 --> 00:41:17,306
this another Silicon Valley startup?

517
00:41:17,306 --> 00:41:18,797
This, yeah.

518
00:41:18,863 --> 00:41:19,964
Good question.

519
00:41:19,964 --> 00:41:20,644
Yes.

520
00:41:20,644 --> 00:41:22,025
No, it's not.

521
00:41:22,025 --> 00:41:25,717
Vinfast is an automaker that is from Vietnam.

522
00:41:25,717 --> 00:41:32,740
It's a Vietnamese automaker and they are part of this big conglomeration out of Vietnam
called Vin Group.

523
00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:37,363
And Vin Group has a lot of different, like it's a big umbrella company.

524
00:41:37,363 --> 00:41:40,525
So it has a lot of different revenue streams, business models under it.

525
00:41:40,525 --> 00:41:42,996
And one of them is Vinfast.

526
00:41:42,996 --> 00:41:46,378
So that is their fully electric line

527
00:41:46,522 --> 00:41:51,726
vehicles and if you go to Vietnam, you'll see different models of VINFAST all around.

528
00:41:51,807 --> 00:41:58,972
But if you drive around the US, you probably won't, maybe unless you're in California or
you pass me somewhere.

529
00:41:59,894 --> 00:42:07,110
So they're a new automaker when they first came on the scene in North America and debuted
the VINFAST VF8.

530
00:42:07,110 --> 00:42:12,244
So it's like a SUV crossover, four door, plenty of room.

531
00:42:12,505 --> 00:42:14,338
It had the worst reviews.

532
00:42:14,338 --> 00:42:14,808
out there.

533
00:42:14,808 --> 00:42:16,070
The absolute worst reviews.

534
00:42:16,070 --> 00:42:20,724
People were having an absolute ball driving this car and talking about how horrible it
was.

535
00:42:20,724 --> 00:42:26,648
So that was the reputation of this automaker as it came into this market.

536
00:42:26,769 --> 00:42:30,592
And it was pretty, I mean, it was just kind of like a bummer.

537
00:42:30,592 --> 00:42:33,184
Okay, they made a not a really poor EV.

538
00:42:33,184 --> 00:42:42,042
A year later, they come out, they've, they do have improvements, and it's maybe not the
worst one on the market, but that is its reputation.

539
00:42:42,406 --> 00:42:43,416
I joined the team.

540
00:42:43,416 --> 00:42:46,186
I don't have an electric vehicle to drive around.

541
00:42:46,186 --> 00:43:01,466
So Kyle says, hey, we found this crazy lease deal in North Carolina and it's advertised at
least a $0 down, $250 a month for a 2020 -23, then fast VF8 Eco trim, which is the more

542
00:43:01,466 --> 00:43:03,796
efficient trim of the car.

543
00:43:03,796 --> 00:43:07,856
The plus is the one above, a little bit more expensive, but it's for this offering.

544
00:43:07,856 --> 00:43:08,876
We should take it.

545
00:43:08,876 --> 00:43:11,166
And so we drove out there.

546
00:43:11,166 --> 00:43:12,929
and started to navigate that.

547
00:43:12,929 --> 00:43:17,997
So Kyle had called ahead to the dealership and we even had a little bit of trouble.

548
00:43:19,461 --> 00:43:20,086
Please do.

549
00:43:20,086 --> 00:43:24,329
I've watched that episode and it is so fascinating and so entertaining.

550
00:43:24,329 --> 00:43:27,971
So I'll try to make sure to put a link to it in the show notes, but I'm sorry.

551
00:43:27,971 --> 00:43:28,502
Continue.

552
00:43:28,502 --> 00:43:30,613
It was very fun to watch.

553
00:43:31,494 --> 00:43:42,191
just, the going back and forth and I like the whole experience about whether it's because
out of spec has kind of notoriety in the EV space that they were trying to do everything

554
00:43:42,191 --> 00:43:45,313
they could to shut down from this even happening.

555
00:43:45,552 --> 00:43:51,105
But I want you to tell the story and share your experience with it since yeah, you're the
ones living

556
00:43:51,918 --> 00:44:01,126
We were driving out there and we call just to like double check like, hey, we're driving
out there from Tennessee to North Carolina to come get this deal.

557
00:44:01,126 --> 00:44:04,709
And they were like, actually, we don't have any more to give you.

558
00:44:04,709 --> 00:44:10,734
And we were like, no way that all the VINFAST VF8s that you had available are gone.

559
00:44:10,734 --> 00:44:11,555
What's going on?

560
00:44:11,555 --> 00:44:13,957
So that was a little bit curious.

561
00:44:13,957 --> 00:44:20,548
It turns out there was an issue with the software that was on those cars at that point in
time.

562
00:44:20,548 --> 00:44:26,523
that we're maybe making them go into like limp mode, turtle mode, going really slow out of
nowhere.

563
00:44:26,523 --> 00:44:35,901
And I think they were trying to navigate, not saying, hey, we have this problem, so we're
not going to give you this car, but hey, they're not available, so we're going to not give

564
00:44:35,901 --> 00:44:36,411
you this car.

565
00:44:36,411 --> 00:44:38,573
So we said, well, we're coming out anyways.

566
00:44:38,893 --> 00:44:40,995
So hopefully you can find a car for us.

567
00:44:40,995 --> 00:44:41,876
So we get there.

568
00:44:41,876 --> 00:44:48,591
And like you said, Chase, it took like two days to finally achieve this lease for the
VinFast VF8.

569
00:44:48,591 --> 00:44:49,402
And I don't.

570
00:44:49,402 --> 00:44:51,483
Like the dealership was honestly really helpful.

571
00:44:51,483 --> 00:44:58,455
They're a fresh, Leith, Leith, L -E -I -T -H is the big dealership.

572
00:44:58,455 --> 00:45:03,867
They have like many dealerships and they decided for some reason to be a Vinfast
dealership.

573
00:45:03,867 --> 00:45:14,320
So it was like this empty building that just had like new Vinfast branding everywhere and
these folks that were slinging and dealing Vinfasts all over

574
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,741
People were in this dealership who had seen the advertisement on Facebook or in the
newspaper for this lease deal.

575
00:45:19,741 --> 00:45:21,932
And they were like, well, I don't even know.

576
00:45:21,932 --> 00:45:23,252
I've never heard of this car.

577
00:45:23,252 --> 00:45:26,313
I've never driven electric, but it's a really cheap lease deal.

578
00:45:26,313 --> 00:45:27,513
Why not?

579
00:45:27,634 --> 00:45:36,136
And I mean, that shows that people are eager to try something new at the very least and
have a good lease deal, which might be surprising.

580
00:45:36,136 --> 00:45:40,197
But folks were walking out of there also buying the car that we met.

581
00:45:40,217 --> 00:45:43,858
It was, yeah, kind of wild because it

582
00:45:44,098 --> 00:45:53,223
technically like a startup in a way and you don't have a ton of security, I think,
compared to others.

583
00:45:53,223 --> 00:46:01,063
so interesting now, kind of like with hindsight being 2020 with the whole Fisker, Fisker
ocean experience and seeing how all that went and.

584
00:46:01,063 --> 00:46:07,763
Vinfast also then partnering with the dealership brand as opposed to all these other kinds
of startups doing it all themselves and trying to have their own network.

585
00:46:07,763 --> 00:46:12,623
But I just found it was just so fascinating to, and what's crazy, you're right.

586
00:46:12,623 --> 00:46:15,683
Like looking at the Nissan Leaf lease deals, those are just insane.

587
00:46:15,683 --> 00:46:19,763
But when this even came out at like 250, like that was a crazy deal.

588
00:46:19,763 --> 00:46:21,443
And did that

589
00:46:21,799 --> 00:46:32,239
Because one of the big reasons some of the EV leases have been pushed forward is they can
then use the $7 ,500 as kind of the money down to get around the tax grand stuff.

590
00:46:32,579 --> 00:46:39,759
Was this even before that qualified, or did it just qualify for it if you leased it for
the $7 ,500 tax credit?

591
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:41,559
Do you remember?

592
00:46:41,919 --> 00:46:42,860
OK, it did.

593
00:46:42,860 --> 00:46:47,530
at least it had some qualifications because, we had to navigate.

594
00:46:47,530 --> 00:46:50,080
We had to just like, you know, they had to deal with the DMV.

595
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:56,189
But yeah, it it did qualify, which is interesting, because, yeah, a lot of this has
changed just since then.

596
00:46:56,189 --> 00:47:00,750
Like the idea of one, a good EV lease, apparently 250 is expensive now.

597
00:47:00,750 --> 00:47:06,070
And yeah, and they did have the tax incentive at that point.

598
00:47:06,290 --> 00:47:08,552
I'm pretty sure I have that right.

599
00:47:08,762 --> 00:47:10,659
I don't know why I don't remember it exactly, but.

600
00:47:10,659 --> 00:47:10,909
watched it.

601
00:47:10,909 --> 00:47:15,059
just can't remember if it had qualified at that point for the lease.

602
00:47:15,059 --> 00:47:22,119
I'd imagine it probably did, but it would have been a pretty new thing if it did at that
point, kind of probably adding to that dealerships confusion.

603
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:28,739
But yeah, I mean, the fact that you've traveled this far, I mean, this is my West coast
ignorance.

604
00:47:28,739 --> 00:47:29,239
What?

605
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,029
I mean, that's probably about a thousand miles, right?

606
00:47:31,029 --> 00:47:33,189
From Tennessee to 800.

607
00:47:33,189 --> 00:47:33,459
Okay.

608
00:47:33,459 --> 00:47:33,809
Yeah.

609
00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:35,859
I, yeah, it's a decent trip.

610
00:47:35,859 --> 00:47:37,189
You go out

611
00:47:37,189 --> 00:47:40,651
You're not only wanting to get the vehicle, you're so dedicated.

612
00:47:40,651 --> 00:47:49,026
You're at this dealership for hours and then come back the next day, stay a night at a
hotel to get this thing that you expect it would have been done in no time.

613
00:47:49,026 --> 00:47:56,591
And what, were some of the things that they were kind of saying or kind of telling you to
slow this

614
00:47:57,634 --> 00:48:02,677
It was this, we're not sure that it'll be ready for you.

615
00:48:02,677 --> 00:48:04,578
We're not sure when it will be ready for you.

616
00:48:04,578 --> 00:48:16,935
have engineers coming from VINFAST to make sure that the software update is not only
downloaded and installed correctly, but that the outcome from it is what we want it to be.

617
00:48:16,935 --> 00:48:18,295
So that is kind of what it was.

618
00:48:18,295 --> 00:48:26,730
Like we can't really speed along this process and I gotta talk to the guy upstairs, know,
and wait, I think that refers to like

619
00:48:27,106 --> 00:48:30,888
I'm an innocent figure, but you know, the boss around here.

620
00:48:32,229 --> 00:48:35,661
And yeah, so was kind of putting it off like we have something to do.

621
00:48:35,661 --> 00:48:39,653
We have engineers here that are making sure it's cool to be taken.

622
00:48:39,653 --> 00:48:43,605
And so we were like, OK, well, I guess we'll just wait until we can have it.

623
00:48:43,605 --> 00:48:48,478
And Kyle even had to leave and go do other out of spec stuff.

624
00:48:48,478 --> 00:48:50,759
And we had driven a Model Y out there.

625
00:48:50,759 --> 00:48:52,870
So my stepmom's Model Y.

626
00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:56,486
And so I was just like, OK, am I going to end up with two cars and

627
00:48:56,486 --> 00:48:57,536
no way to get them back.

628
00:48:57,536 --> 00:49:07,346
But luckily, my colleague Jordan, who's amazing, came out and when we finally got the
lease done and all in all, of course, there's fine print, there's delivery fees, there's

629
00:49:07,346 --> 00:49:11,966
all these fees when it comes in with the lease and with money upfront.

630
00:49:11,966 --> 00:49:14,986
it it kind of it matched up pretty well.

631
00:49:14,986 --> 00:49:19,706
It's a bit more expensive than $250 a month if you don't put like extra money upfront.

632
00:49:19,706 --> 00:49:23,826
But it is still a cheap lease deal and we got it.

633
00:49:23,826 --> 00:49:25,850
And now I'm driving around with

634
00:49:25,862 --> 00:49:30,402
the Venfast VF8 and Jordan and I immediately road tripped it back 800 miles.

635
00:49:30,402 --> 00:49:32,412
He was in the Model Y and I was in the VF8.

636
00:49:32,412 --> 00:49:37,122
So we got to see that side by side comparison, apples to oranges kind of.

637
00:49:37,122 --> 00:49:38,932
But yeah, it was fun.

638
00:49:38,932 --> 00:49:46,282
And now I've gotten to drive around what is this quote unquote worst reviewed car and
reveal that it's really not the worst.

639
00:49:46,282 --> 00:49:48,822
It has some features that other EVs don't have.

640
00:49:48,822 --> 00:49:51,522
It has things that are quirky, but

641
00:49:51,921 --> 00:49:57,114
When I, it would spin so fascinating to kind of listen and hear about your experience with
it because you're right.

642
00:49:57,114 --> 00:49:58,195
was reviewed.

643
00:49:58,195 --> 00:50:09,461
like, when you look at essentially what's happened, like in the last hell, could say five
years, but especially the last year or two in the EV startup space, you look at, once

644
00:50:09,461 --> 00:50:13,093
again, look at Fisker, like, okay, it's a new business, but it started by a guy.

645
00:50:13,093 --> 00:50:17,986
had one failure, of course, the original Fisker thing, but he's worked in the automotive
industry for years.

646
00:50:17,986 --> 00:50:20,283
This new kind of EV startup model where

647
00:50:20,283 --> 00:50:26,887
You look at what Tesla now Rivian and lucid are more or less kind of figured out still
scaling, but they there's like a model for it.

648
00:50:26,887 --> 00:50:29,968
So you're like, okay, this guy has been the automotive industry for decades.

649
00:50:29,968 --> 00:50:30,999
He can figure that out.

650
00:50:30,999 --> 00:50:32,369
He can make it work.

651
00:50:32,850 --> 00:50:33,220
Fine.

652
00:50:33,220 --> 00:50:35,351
I'm sure they'll, they'll do something.

653
00:50:35,431 --> 00:50:44,146
A Vietnamese large corporation making a their first automotive thing really, especially
electric bringing it to the US.

654
00:50:44,146 --> 00:50:45,177
So it's a brand.

655
00:50:45,177 --> 00:50:46,257
There's all of these things.

656
00:50:46,257 --> 00:50:48,778
Like it has all the red flags for it.

657
00:50:48,778 --> 00:50:49,915
And then especially how

658
00:50:49,915 --> 00:50:57,058
the, how bad the reviews were, the software issues that it had all the red flags of that
being the company that would have gone bankrupt by now.

659
00:50:57,058 --> 00:50:58,699
And I just think it's so fascinating.

660
00:50:58,699 --> 00:51:02,420
And then to hear your experience that, where.

661
00:51:02,621 --> 00:51:06,962
Like to some extent, lucid struggled with software, Fisker really struggled with software.

662
00:51:06,962 --> 00:51:10,224
And that's where they kind of kind of had their Achilles heel on.

663
00:51:10,224 --> 00:51:17,467
That's what kind of caused them to go under among other things, but that really just had
such a bad customer experience that they started getting all these negative customer

664
00:51:17,467 --> 00:51:18,279
views.

665
00:51:18,279 --> 00:51:27,979
Whereas maybe there's some arguments you can make about the hardware of a van fast, but
it's at least like middle of the road enough that there's nothing really wrong with it, at

666
00:51:27,979 --> 00:51:30,029
least so far.

667
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:36,949
and hopefully there won't be, but they were able to at least come in with that software
layer and do a pretty big one 80.

668
00:51:36,949 --> 00:51:46,219
It sounds like in your ownership experience of the vehicle to make it something you
actually enjoy and are, would you even say you recommend it even

669
00:51:48,406 --> 00:51:54,326
I would recommend people to lease it similarly to what I did.

670
00:51:54,326 --> 00:52:00,866
I don't know if I would tell someone to buy it because the MSRP is like 48, maybe 52 for
the plus trim.

671
00:52:00,866 --> 00:52:08,216
Some people bought it and some people are just like, like they have that ability to not
only spend that much, but they're like, yeah, I want to try something new.

672
00:52:08,216 --> 00:52:09,266
Yeah, exactly.

673
00:52:09,266 --> 00:52:11,126
And not have much on the line.

674
00:52:11,126 --> 00:52:16,268
So I and my dad, who's driven Tesla since 2018.

675
00:52:16,356 --> 00:52:19,448
got in it too and he was like, it's not half bad.

676
00:52:19,448 --> 00:52:22,210
So I didn't drive the original version that came to market.

677
00:52:22,210 --> 00:52:27,504
And there are things about the VINFAST, if you have high standards, they might not be met.

678
00:52:27,504 --> 00:52:37,422
Like if you are only using Apple all the time and it's integrated into your life, if you
start using a different software, even though it does have Apple CarPlay and Android Auto,

679
00:52:37,422 --> 00:52:43,026
like you can use those, but it is something that you kind of have to learn that's new, but
it

680
00:52:43,032 --> 00:52:46,013
a car that at the very least gets me from point A to point B.

681
00:52:46,013 --> 00:52:48,104
It doesn't have the best efficiency.

682
00:52:48,104 --> 00:52:49,695
mean, it's a heavy car.

683
00:52:49,695 --> 00:52:54,107
The build quality is Colton without a spec detailing is going to come out with a video
soon.

684
00:52:54,107 --> 00:52:57,128
So personally, I'm not an expert, but I'm like, it's a beautiful car.

685
00:52:57,128 --> 00:52:58,398
It's a beautiful green color.

686
00:52:58,398 --> 00:52:59,699
The design is interesting.

687
00:52:59,699 --> 00:53:01,240
I get stopped all the time.

688
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:02,058
Yeah.

689
00:53:02,058 --> 00:53:06,500
wouldn't say I would call the design of it beautiful but I love the green color and
everything.

690
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:10,552
It is just different, it's unique and it's a crossover so it's like good or bad.

691
00:53:10,552 --> 00:53:17,114
It's not like horrible but it's nothing like gonna stop you in your tracks when you see

692
00:53:17,413 --> 00:53:20,034
it's got like ambient lighting inside the...

693
00:53:20,034 --> 00:53:23,565
It's in pet mode and dog mode, which a lot of EVs don't have.

694
00:53:23,565 --> 00:53:28,566
So it has some interesting things that are thrown in that are like, this is a nice
experience.

695
00:53:28,566 --> 00:53:30,657
Like it drives pretty well.

696
00:53:30,657 --> 00:53:35,211
the driver's assistant system is some of the best that I've ever driven in and...

697
00:53:35,211 --> 00:53:41,499
I haven't driven it, but I've heard you say that, which is really one of those other
things that obviously software plays so much into that.

698
00:53:41,499 --> 00:53:44,783
to hear your experience with it makes me want to drive it just to try

699
00:53:45,028 --> 00:53:46,759
I would, I really, really like it.

700
00:53:46,759 --> 00:53:49,662
It is just so easy.

701
00:53:49,662 --> 00:53:51,323
It just drives itself.

702
00:53:51,323 --> 00:53:55,376
Not really, not really, really, but it does like on the drive, on the highway and
everything.

703
00:53:55,376 --> 00:53:57,347
It's a dream, it's really nice.

704
00:53:57,347 --> 00:53:59,148
So there are things I really like about it.

705
00:53:59,148 --> 00:54:02,651
And in that way, I'm not an expert car reviewer.

706
00:54:02,651 --> 00:54:05,193
I wouldn't even call myself a car reviewer.

707
00:54:05,213 --> 00:54:10,517
I am a student of the world and I have been driving a Subaru out back forever.

708
00:54:10,517 --> 00:54:12,178
I get in this car and

709
00:54:12,250 --> 00:54:13,811
very much decently pleased.

710
00:54:13,811 --> 00:54:17,992
did start out, random errors would come up and glitches.

711
00:54:17,992 --> 00:54:22,183
And of course you have to think about, I don't really have a service network nearby.

712
00:54:22,183 --> 00:54:24,234
It's along like the smile coast.

713
00:54:24,234 --> 00:54:29,995
And then there's one in Wichita, Kansas, which I did stop at to get a software update,
because that's what I had to do.

714
00:54:29,995 --> 00:54:38,362
And that fixed a lot of that weird glitchy, quirky stuff that everyone was talking about
and added some cool features like you can see.

715
00:54:38,362 --> 00:54:45,675
that EV information of how many kilowatts is incoming into your vehicle, not only at the
connector port, but also going into the battery.

716
00:54:45,675 --> 00:54:47,066
So some nerdy details.

717
00:54:47,066 --> 00:54:53,949
So I think basically what I'm seeing is that VinFast has potential to keep learning.

718
00:54:53,949 --> 00:54:54,239
Yeah.

719
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,790
And they also have so much money as well.

720
00:54:58,251 --> 00:55:02,873
Whereas maybe Fisker, they had a limited pocket.

721
00:55:03,613 --> 00:55:04,553
Yeah.

722
00:55:05,234 --> 00:55:05,749
Yeah.

723
00:55:05,749 --> 00:55:09,691
ever get anyone on your podcast from them to talk about that, I'd be so envious.

724
00:55:09,691 --> 00:55:22,486
actually, I don't want to say I called it, but I did actually have the opportunity to,
speak on a panel with Henry Fisker a few years ago and can I ask him some questions and

725
00:55:22,486 --> 00:55:28,899
he, the, of the answers and the things he dodged, I was, this was for auto line and,

726
00:55:29,541 --> 00:55:32,852
I didn't want to seem pessimistic, but there were, there were just some things I was
really skeptical of.

727
00:55:32,852 --> 00:55:34,832
And so I'm sad.

728
00:55:36,553 --> 00:55:45,806
I'm I'd have to watch that interview again, but I mean, still, this was still pretty early
and I don't know if this was, I think this still may have been before, cause remember.

729
00:55:45,806 --> 00:55:53,038
that two years ago now that, the ocean wasn't out, but it was like kind of on there.

730
00:55:53,038 --> 00:55:57,063
was soon to be on it was on the horizon, but then Fisker like announced

731
00:55:57,063 --> 00:56:04,263
10 different, they're going to do an SUV, they're going to do a pickup truck, they're
going to do all of these things that it was just like all over the place.

732
00:56:04,263 --> 00:56:06,983
And it was just like, okay, just get one vehicle out.

733
00:56:06,983 --> 00:56:09,703
And, I just remember one, okay.

734
00:56:09,703 --> 00:56:21,263
think one of the things that really stood out to me was I agreed and I thought their,
business model of leveraging using, magna to actually build the vehicles was really was a

735
00:56:21,263 --> 00:56:22,983
fascinating idea.

736
00:56:23,143 --> 00:56:26,169
And some of the panel being more from the Detroit automotive.

737
00:56:26,169 --> 00:56:32,605
So I loved it from like the business and lowering the margins and getting to market fast,
which I was like, those are all good and valid points.

738
00:56:32,605 --> 00:56:44,134
But I think coming from more of the startup side, I was like, well, if you're a new brand
or even dare I say, kind of like a known brand rebooted, you have to be so in control of

739
00:56:44,134 --> 00:56:46,997
the messaging and your product and what the customer thinks of it.

740
00:56:46,997 --> 00:56:54,442
And I think unfortunately, while it brings down the cost and does get the product out
there faster, it does really have a,

741
00:56:54,927 --> 00:57:03,803
In a lot of ways, the product itself was built fine because magnet doesn't know how to
build great vehicles and stuff, but it was, there was just a big disconnect in the product

742
00:57:03,803 --> 00:57:13,639
you're making for these early customers and to kind of get that feedback and have that
ability to prototype and make changes like Tesla, like Lucid, like, Rivian have with their

743
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:19,863
hardware because they also can then just go right to the line in the factory where this
thing is happening and change it overnight.

744
00:57:20,048 --> 00:57:20,831
That is so true.

745
00:57:20,831 --> 00:57:21,522
Yeah.

746
00:57:21,893 --> 00:57:26,434
But, it's one of those things like, I was right, but I don't, I don't want to.

747
00:57:26,434 --> 00:57:27,175
Glow too much bad.

748
00:57:27,175 --> 00:57:29,085
Cause I would have liked, I want to see more succeed.

749
00:57:29,085 --> 00:57:36,687
And I, a lot of ways, there were things I didn't like about it, but I thought the look of
it was a really popular look and it would do really well.

750
00:57:37,048 --> 00:57:42,569
and in some ways it had a lot of interest in sales, but the price was just too high and
they ran to other issues.

751
00:57:42,569 --> 00:57:44,820
But let's get back to a more fun vehicle.

752
00:57:44,820 --> 00:57:46,290
Let's get back to the then fast.

753
00:57:46,290 --> 00:57:49,031
So I think there's two things.

754
00:57:49,036 --> 00:57:52,148
that, obviously the outer spec team is really big about.

755
00:57:52,148 --> 00:57:58,010
so am I one of those being the fact that it has dog mode.

756
00:57:58,010 --> 00:57:59,401
And that was something that it added.

757
00:57:59,401 --> 00:58:02,712
And it's just like one of these things that we tend to be like, why don't more cars have
that?

758
00:58:02,712 --> 00:58:06,224
Even my wife kind of says like, whatever car we get next, it has to have that.

759
00:58:06,224 --> 00:58:16,759
It's like just a fun, like, think some of that may be generational and the experience with
software, but it is also from a hardware perspective with so many EVs so easy to

760
00:58:17,339 --> 00:58:26,617
that it's just kind of disappointing to not see that more offered or putting that kind of
focus on experience for the EV product.

761
00:58:27,192 --> 00:58:27,713
I agree.

762
00:58:27,713 --> 00:58:38,736
Because when we think about the purpose of dog mode, I could be the dog that needs the dog
mode just sitting in my car, but I don't want necessarily everything on or I want to leave

763
00:58:38,797 --> 00:58:44,603
like my groceries in the car even and keep them cool, but still be able to lock the car.

764
00:58:45,565 --> 00:58:46,244
there you go.

765
00:58:46,244 --> 00:58:51,343
and when I like a hot summer day, we'll put it in there in term dog mode just so it keeps
it from like getting too hot and stuff.

766
00:58:52,066 --> 00:58:52,491
Yeah.

767
00:58:52,491 --> 00:59:01,450
I mean, some people maybe couldn't care less, but I do think like when it comes to if
you're able to control your car from your phone and precondition the cabin or lock it,

768
00:59:01,450 --> 00:59:12,110
unlock it, whatever it is, like adding that in is a huge selling point for people like me
and a lot of people online too, who have dogs, who travel with their dogs or have cases of

769
00:59:12,110 --> 00:59:15,153
wine if they're lucky enough to keep cool in the back of their car.

770
00:59:15,153 --> 00:59:16,725
And I think

771
00:59:16,725 --> 00:59:17,716
gotta come out to Oregon.

772
00:59:17,716 --> 00:59:21,598
We'll take you some of the great amazing wines we have in the valley.

773
00:59:23,260 --> 00:59:25,082
We'll make it a business expense.

774
00:59:25,082 --> 00:59:25,721
How about that?

775
00:59:25,721 --> 00:59:26,201
awesome.

776
00:59:26,201 --> 00:59:27,482
Yeah, that sounds great.

777
00:59:27,482 --> 00:59:31,565
mean, little features like this are pretty important to folks.

778
00:59:31,565 --> 00:59:39,830
And like that might keep someone from switching from a Tesla to something else because
they're like, well, I really like that feature, this feature, and things like that, I

779
00:59:39,830 --> 00:59:41,752
think do become significant.

780
00:59:41,752 --> 00:59:45,835
And from our point of view, we're like, well, automakers, why don't you put it in?

781
00:59:45,835 --> 00:59:48,046
And then we hear reasoning from them.

782
00:59:48,046 --> 00:59:51,258
And it does make me want to be a fly on the wall to see.

783
00:59:51,716 --> 00:59:52,606
Why?

784
00:59:53,489 --> 00:59:54,690
Why not?

785
00:59:55,372 --> 01:00:01,140
But I guess there might be a good reason that they don't do that.

786
01:00:01,140 --> 01:00:05,306
But I mean, that's a huge winner for me with the pet

787
01:00:06,395 --> 01:00:06,956
No, for sure.

788
01:00:06,956 --> 01:00:10,940
And so, I mean, we've talked probably a lot more.

789
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:21,861
I can definitely say this is the podcast we've talked the most about the Vinfast on, as a
brand as an EV, but I think it's just been so fascinating to see just, guess I'd mentioned

790
01:00:21,861 --> 01:00:22,382
there are two points.

791
01:00:22,382 --> 01:00:29,669
The second point is essentially the software and that customer focus that they have shown
to be kind of in a startup mode where they're still.

792
01:00:29,669 --> 01:00:40,078
trying to deliver even if it's not over there is to fix a lot of these things to make a
better customer experience and what were you gonna say?

793
01:00:40,078 --> 01:00:50,645
Well, they do have the goal of going over the air software update, which I'll say, you
know, and but they are basically what I when I asked the dealership where I got the

794
01:00:50,645 --> 01:01:00,012
software update in Wichita, Kansas, they were like, well, you know, they don't want to
rush into it and then have something happen like automakers have had happen across the

795
01:01:00,012 --> 01:01:08,932
across the board where an update comes out and they're like, whoopsie and Vinfast being so
fresh, having the reputation they have, I think they are cautious, rightfully so.

796
01:01:08,932 --> 01:01:11,243
I think it's justified to do that kind of thing.

797
01:01:11,243 --> 01:01:21,186
But also that is also a really lovely feature that I can just be sitting at home and my
car can get an update and I can have a better experience from there.

798
01:01:21,186 --> 01:01:24,596
And it is just like with Fisker, we didn't want them to fail.

799
01:01:24,596 --> 01:01:31,038
I don't want VinFast to fail necessarily, but I want a good product.

800
01:01:31,038 --> 01:01:37,010
being able to give honest, big feedback and see them respond as a company, I think that's
key

801
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:42,921
succeeding for sure and not rushing as we've talked about just before a little bit.

802
01:01:42,921 --> 01:01:54,275
The rush that I don't even think is necessarily from any mandates or anything like that,
but instead just like let's get an EV on the market instead of saying, this is new

803
01:01:54,275 --> 01:02:02,397
technology that we really want to be intentional about and give the best experience and
consider all of the anxieties that the market has about electric vehicles and make a

804
01:02:02,397 --> 01:02:06,938
fantastic product, especially when there's so many lessons learned from those who have

805
01:02:07,344 --> 01:02:18,389
been in the market so far, feel like a patient approach in a way is great and hopefully
won't lead to sad stories.

806
01:02:19,377 --> 01:02:19,787
For sure.

807
01:02:19,787 --> 01:02:24,730
mean, this kind of goes to also what we were talking about yesterday about like that first
versus second mover approach.

808
01:02:25,011 --> 01:02:33,136
And, I have been, I've been consistently impressed by how VinFast has approached some of
these things from how you've documented it.

809
01:02:33,136 --> 01:02:42,473
But, it sounds like, and I guess this would be interesting is you took a road trip
recently in the VinFast and then in, switched out for something else.

810
01:02:42,473 --> 01:02:49,517
So maybe you want to share that experience with us and kind of where you are today in your
EV ownership and day -to -day experience.

811
01:02:49,606 --> 01:02:54,176
I just love learning and man, do I keep getting opportunities to do so.

812
01:02:54,176 --> 01:02:57,765
So I spent the last month in Colorado.

813
01:02:57,765 --> 01:02:59,206
So I lived in Colorado for 10 years.

814
01:02:59,206 --> 01:03:06,946
I moved back to the Southeast because I just wanted to get closer to my roots and I drove
the VINFAST VF8 out there.

815
01:03:06,946 --> 01:03:09,956
So in preparation, you know, I made a Google Sheet.

816
01:03:09,956 --> 01:03:11,026
I looked on PlugShare.

817
01:03:11,026 --> 01:03:12,526
I mapped out all of my stops.

818
01:03:12,526 --> 01:03:15,066
I made sure that other folks said that they were working.

819
01:03:15,066 --> 01:03:17,712
I had backup plans in case

820
01:03:17,712 --> 01:03:21,155
you know, efficiency turned out weird or I had to stop in a different place.

821
01:03:21,155 --> 01:03:27,961
So I put in the effort as I would like a camping trip, picking out my camping sites,
really making sure that they were great, looking at reviews.

822
01:03:27,961 --> 01:03:32,315
And then I made my way out there and it took two days as it usually does.

823
01:03:32,315 --> 01:03:37,119
I did have to stop in Wichita overnight and spend five hours getting that update.

824
01:03:37,220 --> 01:03:37,810
And that's cool.

825
01:03:37,810 --> 01:03:38,711
I got to see Wichita.

826
01:03:38,711 --> 01:03:39,962
I'd never seen it before.

827
01:03:39,962 --> 01:03:44,102
And I had again, you know, a CCS road trip.

828
01:03:44,102 --> 01:03:48,462
experience with a car that doesn't charge super fast or super impressive.

829
01:03:48,662 --> 01:03:52,032
well, you know, typically my stops are around 30 minutes.

830
01:03:52,032 --> 01:03:53,902
I also like to get out and walk the dog.

831
01:03:53,902 --> 01:03:57,332
And I got to experience that and go spend a month in Colorado.

832
01:03:57,332 --> 01:04:02,182
And then the Out of Spec team wanted to that was a good experience.

833
01:04:02,182 --> 01:04:04,362
I enjoyed the road trip.

834
01:04:04,402 --> 01:04:08,202
Didn't really have any complaints that infrastructure worked along the way.

835
01:04:08,202 --> 01:04:13,798
Like at every stop that I was at some, think maybe once or twice, I had to move stalls
along the way.

836
01:04:13,798 --> 01:04:22,108
generally worked, loved the pet mode, got to spend way too much time in Walmarts and
Targets and lose some of the money I should have kept in my wallet.

837
01:04:22,108 --> 01:04:24,258
But it was a good road trip.

838
01:04:24,258 --> 01:04:25,298
I love a good road trip.

839
01:04:25,298 --> 01:04:33,808
On my way back though, the Out of Spec team wanted to keep the Vinfast to spend time with
her for however long they're going to keep her until I get her back.

840
01:04:33,808 --> 01:04:40,038
And I was given what is affectionately called Beak, the Tesla Model 3 that

841
01:04:40,038 --> 01:04:44,718
Kyle's and Alyssa's that has 146 ,000 miles on it now.

842
01:04:44,718 --> 01:04:52,098
So it's really the heavy odometer there in terms of all the EVs that we have, or the team
has.

843
01:04:52,098 --> 01:04:56,808
And I got to drive that back the same, over a thousand mile trip.

844
01:04:56,808 --> 01:05:03,258
I took the same route through Wichita, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and then into Tennessee.

845
01:05:03,258 --> 01:05:05,358
And it

846
01:05:05,990 --> 01:05:07,260
a different experience.

847
01:05:07,260 --> 01:05:17,970
will say the things that I love about the VinFast, still love like the driver's assistant
system, the comfort of the car, and all the other things that I've mentioned before.

848
01:05:17,970 --> 01:05:24,960
But it is so nice to put in your, I didn't even plan at all any of my stops coming back
with the Tesla.

849
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:30,200
I said, I'm going to just use 100 % the Tesla route planning and let it just guide my way.

850
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:31,370
I won't put any input.

851
01:05:31,370 --> 01:05:35,450
And when I did, I ended up regretting it towards the end,

852
01:05:35,810 --> 01:05:43,234
It was such a non mentally involved way of EV road tripping compared.

853
01:05:43,234 --> 01:05:44,595
And someone equated it.

854
01:05:44,595 --> 01:05:50,538
I think it was someone on one of the podcasts that wrote a road trip in a CCS vehicle.

855
01:05:50,538 --> 01:05:53,079
No, a road trip into Tesla is like using a GPS.

856
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:54,460
It tells you exactly where to go.

857
01:05:54,460 --> 01:05:58,122
A road trip in a CCS electric vehicle is like using an Atlas.

858
01:05:58,122 --> 01:05:59,193
So you're going to get there.

859
01:05:59,193 --> 01:06:03,165
You just might have to work a little bit harder using the map.

860
01:06:03,745 --> 01:06:05,470
Yeah, maybe some detours.

861
01:06:05,470 --> 01:06:14,318
And on the way back, mean, not only will Tesla tell you, you know, how where the
superchargers are, how long you're going to need to charge there based on all of the

862
01:06:14,318 --> 01:06:23,426
information and the data that it has, but also you pull up, you back in, you you grab the
connector, you plug it in the car, you don't get into the app, you don't initiate a

863
01:06:23,426 --> 01:06:25,247
charge, you don't tap your card.

864
01:06:25,247 --> 01:06:29,091
And it always on this road trip started charging.

865
01:06:29,091 --> 01:06:33,080
And that was so different where I didn't have to wait.

866
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:42,246
in the sun and the heat wave at the Electri America station on the asphalt parking lot,
like getting my phone out and then swiping it and plugging it in and then maybe doing it

867
01:06:42,246 --> 01:06:43,036
again.

868
01:06:43,036 --> 01:06:50,211
Like plug and charge is going to totally change the game when that finally gets
standardized and folks can just plug in and walk away knowing that their car is going to

869
01:06:50,211 --> 01:06:51,121
charge.

870
01:06:51,121 --> 01:06:59,194
And that kind of thing, it was as close to, I think, a internal combustion engine road
trip as it has gotten for me so far.

871
01:06:59,194 --> 01:07:02,320
where you know that when you pull off, you're going to go to a gas station.

872
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,606
The Tesla's telling me exactly where to go to go to the supercharger.

873
01:07:05,606 --> 01:07:07,219
And it just works every time.

874
01:07:07,219 --> 01:07:09,853
So it was quite the difference.

875
01:07:09,928 --> 01:07:16,392
Well, and I think it's like, it kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier, like for a
new technology to take off, it doesn't have to be just as good.

876
01:07:16,392 --> 01:07:17,612
has to be better.

877
01:07:17,613 --> 01:07:24,937
And so when I've gone on a road trip with a, with a combustion vehicle, I've never really
had to worry about where I was going to pull over and get gas.

878
01:07:24,937 --> 01:07:29,080
It happens, but you just kind of do it.

879
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:35,079
And there's been a lot of places where I'm driving through actually really remote places
of either Oregon, Nevada, Arizona.

880
01:07:35,079 --> 01:07:39,059
And you'll see a sign like next gas, 150 miles, a hundred miles or something like that.

881
01:07:39,059 --> 01:07:47,239
And then what's also been really funny on some of these trips in the middle of nowhere,
I've even seen DC fast chargers, which is kind of makes it seem like, okay, it's not as

882
01:07:47,239 --> 01:07:49,799
much, flack as they get and like location.

883
01:07:49,799 --> 01:07:50,939
There are some out there.

884
01:07:50,939 --> 01:07:54,519
There are some really random place and I don't know if anyone's ever used them, but they
are there.

885
01:07:54,519 --> 01:08:00,499
But what it, what it really goes to is like, when I go on a road trip and a combustion
vehicle, I don't know necessarily where I'm going to stop.

886
01:08:00,499 --> 01:08:02,309
Maybe I'll think of like a place along the way.

887
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:04,239
want to get lunch or something,

888
01:08:05,083 --> 01:08:13,525
The Tesla experience and Emily, they're not the only one, but the whole route planner, a
good route planner and EV figures out not only where you're going to stop and how long,

889
01:08:13,525 --> 01:08:21,738
but it really does like take care of so much of this for you and with what you're saying,
kind like with the Tesla one, I recently was taking a road trip back over fourth of July

890
01:08:21,738 --> 01:08:22,118
weekend.

891
01:08:22,118 --> 01:08:25,709
try to avoid things like that, but it just happened to happen that way.

892
01:08:25,709 --> 01:08:29,170
And so we were there a couple of the charges were getting pretty full.

893
01:08:29,170 --> 01:08:34,311
And so it recommended going to another one or it started saying like,

894
01:08:34,587 --> 01:08:37,590
I forget if there was, I took photos of there were things I hadn't seen before.

895
01:08:37,590 --> 01:08:45,096
And obviously it's probably been there for a while, but it just like, starts giving you
tips and recommendations like, I want to go that next one or go to like a different one.

896
01:08:45,096 --> 01:08:47,228
Like, and it shows you how many people are going there.

897
01:08:47,228 --> 01:08:47,788
What's the weight.

898
01:08:47,788 --> 01:08:51,921
And it's these things that I never would get information about a gas station about.

899
01:08:52,062 --> 01:08:58,307
And I've been guilty of waiting at like a gas station because it's cheaper something, even
if there's a line in like the middle of summer.

900
01:08:58,351 --> 01:09:06,626
And it is just one of these things, making that road trip experience across the board and
giving you so much more proactive data that you would never have with a combustion

901
01:09:06,626 --> 01:09:07,026
vehicle.

902
01:09:07,026 --> 01:09:11,589
I think really, hopefully more vehicles start doing it sooner than later.

903
01:09:11,589 --> 01:09:23,035
And we're starting to see some promising things, but that just is part of what I think is
going to a lot of the legacy OEMs really need to think about to make that step even that

904
01:09:23,035 --> 01:09:26,617
much easier, not just easier, but overall a better experience.

905
01:09:26,896 --> 01:09:27,426
Totally.

906
01:09:27,426 --> 01:09:28,737
I think you have a great point.

907
01:09:28,737 --> 01:09:35,150
It's very proactive and it's making sure that you're getting the best experience and you
don't have to think about it.

908
01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:45,476
And the trust that you can have in the software to do what is in best interest for you is
such an art that can't be undervalued.

909
01:09:45,476 --> 01:09:49,678
And our team did do a race to Vegas for electric SUVs.

910
01:09:49,678 --> 01:09:50,889
On the way there, they raced it.

911
01:09:50,889 --> 01:09:55,741
But on the way back, the different, the R1S, the Mercedes EQS,

912
01:09:58,151 --> 01:10:02,114
EV9 and there's another one.

913
01:10:02,114 --> 01:10:03,094
Thank you.

914
01:10:03,094 --> 01:10:05,606
They just followed the route planner on the way back.

915
01:10:05,606 --> 01:10:09,799
So we got to see how these different automakers are doing their route planning.

916
01:10:09,799 --> 01:10:20,787
And again, it's a pretty nascent thing, I guess, but it does show you how valuable it is,
especially when we value road trips as a society that, yeah, plan my route.

917
01:10:20,948 --> 01:10:24,142
Think it through for me and let me show

918
01:10:24,142 --> 01:10:31,065
at a low state of charge, get the charge I need to get as far as I can, and then end up at
another charger and carry on my way.

919
01:10:31,065 --> 01:10:33,796
It really is very cool to see it.

920
01:10:33,796 --> 01:10:39,148
I still will recommend road tripping in a CCS vehicle.

921
01:10:39,788 --> 01:10:44,890
But yeah, Tesla does have something to really admire there.

922
01:10:45,051 --> 01:10:45,451
for sure.

923
01:10:45,451 --> 01:10:55,109
And I, I like to recommend other options, but I get asked every day, like is what what's
like the easiest EV and you ask a couple of questions.

924
01:10:55,109 --> 01:10:58,402
It's like, if you just want the easy button solution, you don't want to think about and
you can charge it.

925
01:10:58,402 --> 01:11:01,144
I'm just, you know, it's asked them be done with it.

926
01:11:01,605 --> 01:11:05,408
Because then you start kind of going down these other paths that are totally doable.

927
01:11:05,408 --> 01:11:09,771
But there's just a lot of people that just want kind of the easiest, simplest, not have to
think about.

928
01:11:09,771 --> 01:11:14,725
And it's one thing if you're car enthusiasts, sure, there might be sportier ones

929
01:11:14,725 --> 01:11:17,240
maybe more economical ones here and there in certain ways.

930
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:22,308
like, if you don't really care, you just, you just want to have an EV to have an EV and
make that transition easy.

931
01:11:22,308 --> 01:11:25,773
I think there's still a strong position to just be the easy button.

932
01:11:25,838 --> 01:11:30,440
And that's a shame because a lot of people don't want specifically a Tesla.

933
01:11:30,521 --> 01:11:38,465
And so it's like, I wish there was a more easy list of options that were like, well,
you're going to get a very similar experience with the CV.

934
01:11:38,826 --> 01:11:39,952
Not quite there yet.

935
01:11:39,952 --> 01:11:44,975
starting to see some of them, but just at that price point that they're at, there really
isn't that competition like.

936
01:11:45,096 --> 01:11:46,527
Rivian Porsche for sure.

937
01:11:46,527 --> 01:11:49,659
But there's a pretty big Delta in those price points still.

938
01:11:50,881 --> 01:11:57,125
but I guess one thing we've talked a lot about your EV experience and kind of how you've
worked in this industry for a few years.

939
01:11:57,125 --> 01:12:01,639
And we even allude to this a little bit yesterday and I realized we've gone over time.

940
01:12:01,639 --> 01:12:04,511
So this is the final question, but

941
01:12:04,697 --> 01:12:13,630
do you think people either making regulations or really being in the automotive industry
and having influence on these electric vehicle topics or charging infrastructure?

942
01:12:13,630 --> 01:12:15,550
Do they need to have an EV?

943
01:12:15,550 --> 01:12:26,193
And as you mentioned, some of it is obviously a financial thing, like, automotive
journalists have gone so many, I think I'm so frustrated consistently how many things they

944
01:12:26,193 --> 01:12:32,655
get wrong about EVs and they think they're, they know so much about them because they've
been writing about combustion vehicles for so long.

945
01:12:32,695 --> 01:12:33,765
And I think.

946
01:12:33,765 --> 01:12:42,923
whether it's maybe it should be subsidized or paid for to have charging at home by their
employer or even the lease or something.

947
01:12:42,923 --> 01:12:48,467
But I am kind of in the camp that if you're in the industry, you kind of need to have one.

948
01:12:48,508 --> 01:12:50,379
And I realize it can be expensive.

949
01:12:50,379 --> 01:12:57,595
And there's maybe an argument to be made that some of these companies or even if it's like
a government thing, have a lease that they can give to different people just so they

950
01:12:57,595 --> 01:12:58,626
experience this day to day.

951
01:12:58,626 --> 01:13:02,259
And so I'm curious of your take on this question

952
01:13:03,411 --> 01:13:06,343
Yeah, I definitely have a take on it and I will preface it with that.

953
01:13:06,343 --> 01:13:11,017
I started the OuterSpec podcast and I worked at EVGO and I didn't have an EV.

954
01:13:11,017 --> 01:13:12,759
I am a young single woman.

955
01:13:12,759 --> 01:13:23,828
know, it is, it was harder for me to convince myself to to buy one when I really didn't
have the like the confidence that I would, this was the financial decision that was right

956
01:13:23,828 --> 01:13:24,429
for me.

957
01:13:24,429 --> 01:13:30,394
Nonetheless, I do think someone from that point of view can just report the facts, but

958
01:13:30,574 --> 01:13:44,770
living with an EV and really like full time has definitely given me insight that I am so
like disappointed to say that executive teams at Chargepoint operators and at automakers

959
01:13:44,770 --> 01:13:48,241
are not driving electric as their daily cars.

960
01:13:48,241 --> 01:13:59,566
it is, it's, it doesn't, now, and if you look at the big thing and how we're maybe like
slow moving or there's these big mistakes that have happened and misunderstandings with

961
01:13:59,566 --> 01:14:00,098
what

962
01:14:00,098 --> 01:14:09,365
EV drivers need it makes sense because the people making the decisions and the regulation,
which you made a good point on that tweet that I said, like you have to be driving

963
01:14:09,365 --> 01:14:11,116
electric or you don't know what's going on.

964
01:14:11,116 --> 01:14:20,914
It's like kind of, you know, people coming in from other countries or whatever and going
into another place and trying to solve a problem with their background and their culture

965
01:14:20,914 --> 01:14:26,337
and not understanding the place, even the problem that they're going to solve and
obviously bringing

966
01:14:27,058 --> 01:14:32,900
not even a solution, an idea that doesn't understand the context in which the issue
exists.

967
01:14:32,900 --> 01:14:46,243
So I think it is absolutely imperative that senior and executive level, as well as anyone
making any decisions about regulation or policy or infrastructure needs to be driving

968
01:14:46,243 --> 01:14:52,105
electric and needs to go on electric road trips and needs to drive a Tesla and needs to
drive CCS vehicles.

969
01:14:52,105 --> 01:14:56,186
And I do understand some companies are smaller or like journalists

970
01:14:57,163 --> 01:15:01,296
organizations don't have access to all the cars, well, everyone should have the chance.

971
01:15:01,296 --> 01:15:09,372
mean, at EVgo, they made sure that even as a remote team, everyone went to a charger at
least once, but that's not even probably enough.

972
01:15:09,372 --> 01:15:11,914
like you need to be at chargers all the time.

973
01:15:11,914 --> 01:15:16,316
You need to be experiencing this or else you don't really know.

974
01:15:16,777 --> 01:15:22,361
And if you're going to make a successful business model, think obviously, right, you got
to do it.

975
01:15:22,822 --> 01:15:23,543
You agree?

976
01:15:23,543 --> 01:15:25,173
you know, I completely agree.

977
01:15:25,173 --> 01:15:27,943
I think the one, cause you're totally right.

978
01:15:27,943 --> 01:15:34,513
There is still a financial burden, but one of the things I was pushed back, like you were
even talking about the price of the Vinfast and I wouldn't say by any means that's cheap,

979
01:15:34,513 --> 01:15:38,483
but the average sales price of a new car is $47 ,000.

980
01:15:38,483 --> 01:15:40,743
It doesn't matter if that's electric or combustion.

981
01:15:40,743 --> 01:15:44,963
It's $47 ,000, which I'll be the first to say, I think that's too much.

982
01:15:44,963 --> 01:15:50,983
But when you put into comparison, especially where electric vehicle prices are right now,
it's kind of on the

983
01:15:51,352 --> 01:15:51,695
It is.

984
01:15:51,695 --> 01:15:53,897
Yeah.

985
01:15:53,897 --> 01:15:59,581
And it, there's a lot of different reasons, whether it being the inability to charge at
home, the financial.

986
01:15:59,581 --> 01:16:06,465
And I do think at the very least, I think you do bring up great point of having both the
CCS and the Tesla experience.

987
01:16:06,986 --> 01:16:16,622
That at the very least as part of onboarding or as part of like working on a panel, if
you're in regulation or a government thing, you should be at at the part of the, there

988
01:16:16,622 --> 01:16:20,807
should be one week where you have a rental, a Turo or wherever where

989
01:16:20,807 --> 01:16:31,237
they rent you paid by either the government entity or the, the business, cause it's really
not that expensive and it's something you can, they can expense anyway of.

990
01:16:31,237 --> 01:16:35,027
Brenda Evie as part of your rent, a test as you're on board for one week.

991
01:16:35,027 --> 01:16:41,247
And then next week is a CCS and just so you can live with it and see the pros and cons of
both those.

992
01:16:41,247 --> 01:16:48,731
And even if you have to plug into a one 20 at home, it's still for most people, you can
get by with

993
01:16:48,731 --> 01:16:52,646
And at least gets you thinking about it and understanding what that experience is.

994
01:16:52,752 --> 01:17:02,791
Yeah, that's what I do too is just the trickle charge and it's, it's, you know, maybe
takes two days to get like the fullest charge that you could want, but it's, fine.

995
01:17:02,791 --> 01:17:03,071
Yeah.

996
01:17:03,071 --> 01:17:05,153
I think I, totally agree.

997
01:17:05,153 --> 01:17:07,134
There is no excuse.

998
01:17:07,215 --> 01:17:09,707
You have the money to pay for it somewhere.

999
01:17:09,707 --> 01:17:15,162
I'm sure you could rearrange things and have a really, and I've seen teams that have done
it.

1000
01:17:15,162 --> 01:17:20,196
I've seen a team of like four, four men that worked at this company getting a pole star.

1001
01:17:20,388 --> 01:17:28,854
two, which is one of the smallest like EVs and they went on a road trip up and down the
coast of California with their colleagues to experience the different networks and it

1002
01:17:28,854 --> 01:17:31,416
wasn't even the, you know, the car that they make.

1003
01:17:31,416 --> 01:17:36,229
So I thought that was a really great point of view and they kind of had the software
background.

1004
01:17:36,229 --> 01:17:46,396
So perhaps they were thinking as software engineers typically do, like you have to use the
software so that you understand where the bugs are and everything so that you can build it

1005
01:17:46,396 --> 01:17:46,916
correctly.

1006
01:17:46,916 --> 01:17:48,478
And I love that point of view.

1007
01:17:48,478 --> 01:17:49,278
And

1008
01:17:49,548 --> 01:17:51,159
anyone can object to that.

1009
01:17:51,159 --> 01:17:56,902
really, would love to hear their point of view if they don't think people need this
because I don't understand.

1010
01:17:56,902 --> 01:18:04,206
And I think if you're going to meet people where they are, you, as these higher ups who
are making these decisions, you have to, you have to understand it.

1011
01:18:04,206 --> 01:18:06,588
And it is honestly really fun.

1012
01:18:06,588 --> 01:18:10,410
Even if you don't want to drive a Tesla, like you need to experience it.

1013
01:18:10,410 --> 01:18:18,554
You have to know what else is out there and have the full picture or else I don't think
you're going to really make anything good out of it or have

1014
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:24,505
the best ideas of how to make the electric revolution happen, whatever it might

1015
01:18:24,741 --> 01:18:25,001
Yeah.

1016
01:18:25,001 --> 01:18:33,507
And I mean, whether wherever you think of Tesla, wherever on the spectrum, it just like,
it still is kind of, it just sets the bar across all of the experience from the ownership

1017
01:18:33,507 --> 01:18:36,939
to the driving to the charging.

1018
01:18:37,140 --> 01:18:37,870
And it's funny.

1019
01:18:37,870 --> 01:18:42,944
You mentioned the pole star because like, these are the things that we take for granted or
just don't even think about like a pole star.

1020
01:18:42,944 --> 01:18:50,829
When you're going on road trip and you get down to a few percent, it's a much different
experience than other cars or like a Tesla where it's like, you can pretty much drive it

1021
01:18:50,829 --> 01:18:51,930
down to zero.

1022
01:18:51,930 --> 01:18:54,251
Obviously not ideal, but you can get there and there's

1023
01:18:54,567 --> 01:18:57,009
pull star and some other cars, you start getting down to a few percent.

1024
01:18:57,009 --> 01:19:00,361
Like the battery starts cutting the power pretty significantly.

1025
01:19:00,361 --> 01:19:04,375
And it's like, it becomes a very actually kind of sketchy driving experience.

1026
01:19:04,375 --> 01:19:13,562
And these are all just different things, especially if you're in the industry or designing
an EV that you just would not expect, or maybe necessarily know if you haven't gone behind

1027
01:19:13,562 --> 01:19:16,684
the seat, gun behind the wheel and actually gone for a ride.

1028
01:19:16,684 --> 01:19:21,007
And that's just one of the things that kind of pops into my mind that people just would
not expect.

1029
01:19:21,162 --> 01:19:31,170
Yeah, and yeah, even you might not even know what a charge curve really might look like,
or a derated charger, what that experience is like, or yeah, pulling up to these charging

1030
01:19:31,170 --> 01:19:32,151
stations.

1031
01:19:32,151 --> 01:19:40,318
I think it's it's definitely something that needs to be lived, and it reminds me a little
bit briefly when the energy secretary took an EV road trip.

1032
01:19:40,318 --> 01:19:45,762
It was in twenty twenty three from Charlotte to Memphis, Charlotte, North Carolina to
Memphis, Tennessee, and.

1033
01:19:45,996 --> 01:19:49,581
my gosh, was that just, it just wasn't executed properly.

1034
01:19:49,581 --> 01:19:51,514
You know, they just didn't go about it.

1035
01:19:51,514 --> 01:19:54,188
Yeah, but I've always wanted to recreate that since I'm over here.

1036
01:19:54,188 --> 01:19:57,983
So maybe one day I will and I'll show, okay, it's not that horrible.

1037
01:19:59,325 --> 01:19:59,747
Yeah.

1038
01:19:59,747 --> 01:20:01,678
was just the issues they ran into.

1039
01:20:01,678 --> 01:20:07,771
then that like the idea of like reserving a spot ahead by having someone park there was
like an interesting idea and made sense.

1040
01:20:07,771 --> 01:20:17,905
But then obviously it's like annoying all these other EV drivers there that are trying to
charge this and just had so many unintended, backlashes for if anyone's not familiar with

1041
01:20:17,905 --> 01:20:22,757
what happened with it, but, Francie, I've really enjoyed this conversation really enjoyed
yesterday.

1042
01:20:23,123 --> 01:20:24,494
I realize we've gone way over time.

1043
01:20:24,494 --> 01:20:34,899
can easily keep talking on a lot of these topics If anyone's listening, what's the best
way to get a whole I mean we'll have a lot of the links in the show notes but anything in

1044
01:20:34,899 --> 01:20:39,867
particular to reach out and kind of connect with you best and learn more about the podcast

1045
01:20:39,867 --> 01:20:40,467
totally.

1046
01:20:40,467 --> 01:20:46,329
can follow me on Twitter, hey underscore francy, F -R -A -N -C -I -E.

1047
01:20:46,329 --> 01:20:56,424
And of course you can find me and listen to me talk way too much over on the Out of Spec
podcast, but I do always try to bring something of value to either spark a new idea or

1048
01:20:56,424 --> 01:20:58,835
just energize you with new electric news.

1049
01:20:58,835 --> 01:21:00,495
So feel free to hang out with me over there.

1050
01:21:00,495 --> 01:21:03,276
But yeah, thank you so much, Chase, for having me onto the podcast.

1051
01:21:03,276 --> 01:21:06,578
It's great to like really actually get to know you.

1052
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:18,118
kind of in real life in a way and share in these discussions because I think you have an
amazing background and experience and you're constantly like thinking about these

1053
01:21:18,118 --> 01:21:24,453
questions and the progress that we are making or aren't making and how and it's really
great to speak with you.

1054
01:21:24,453 --> 01:21:25,444
So I really enjoyed this.

1055
01:21:25,444 --> 01:21:27,545
Thank you for having me on Grid Connections.

1056
01:21:27,545 --> 01:21:28,326
I appreciate

1057
01:21:28,326 --> 01:21:28,796
pleasure.

1058
01:21:28,796 --> 01:21:30,998
And we will for sure have to have you again on soon.

1059
01:21:30,998 --> 01:21:35,222
So thank you so much, Francie and looking forward to the next one.

1060
01:21:35,738 --> 01:21:37,323
Thanks, thank you so much.

1061
01:21:37,323 --> 01:21:38,640
Bye everyone.

1062
01:21:44,353 --> 01:21:48,185
Thank you for tuning into this episode of the grid connections podcast.

1063
01:21:48,185 --> 01:21:52,568
hope you enjoyed our conversation with Francie Saunders from the Out of Spec podcast.

1064
01:21:52,568 --> 01:22:01,033
Francie's experience and insights in the world of electric vehicles, especially her
journey with the VINFAST VF8 have been not only just enlightening, but always inspiring

1065
01:22:01,033 --> 01:22:07,516
for others trying to make it into the world of new electric vehicles and taking them on
road trips.

1066
01:22:07,536 --> 01:22:12,518
If you enjoyed today's episode, please share it with at least one other listener who would
appreciate Francie's story.

1067
01:22:12,971 --> 01:22:14,373
We also love to hear your thoughts.

1068
01:22:14,373 --> 01:22:17,148
So don't forget to leave a positive view on our podcast page.

1069
01:22:17,148 --> 01:22:22,187
Your feedback helps us continue bringing you insightful and engaging content until next
week.

1070
01:22:22,187 --> 01:22:24,550
This is the great connections podcast signing off.