Joel: Welcome to No Compromises. A peek into the mind of two old web devs who have seen some things. This is Joel.
Aaron: And this is Aaron. You're still importing Guzzle and I'm using the HTTP Facade, like just a cool guy. I don't understand why all your stuff is old and slow, I thought that you were a great programmer, Joel. I thought that you... everyone says you're great. You solve all the problems, you're constantly hammering out code, you're working hard, but you're doing all these old weird things. Why?
Joel: Aaron, you're right but I don't have time to fix all this.
Aaron: Oh, that. So that's how we're getting into part two of this podcast. Which is, what's the other side? We talked a little bit about, yeah, we don't have time. Well, maybe if you're the person sharing the tip, you didn't sell the time benefits well enough so it's not abundantly clear for the person. But let's just say we've done that now. We've taken on some of that responsibility, we said, "Yes, we can sell this even better." But now let's flip it around to the other person. It's the Joel who's saying, "I don't have the time," after we've shared that.
Joel: Yeah, that's kind of where I was trying to go last time. But we're getting there now and that's what matters. Which is, why we personally are frustrated when we hear that. Because I'll just be honest, I think it's not a genuine response to that problem. It may seem on the surface to be the because thing, but it's not actually. The decision you're making isn't about a time resource, it's about priority. Right?
Aaron: Yeah. It's not a lie, it's just not the truth.
Joel: Okay, I like that. That's a more succinct way of putting it. Very good.
Aaron: So you'd mentioned priority and that's kind of what we had talked about last time. Which was, maybe you haven't made a high enough priority because the value wasn't made clear to you. But now we're saying the value is very clear so when you're saying you don't have time, are you saying you don't have time? Or are you saying, "I'm not putting this valuable thing as priority for me?" And why is that, that you're not doing that then?
Joel: Right. Let's go back to kind of your funny contrived example. Which is modernization of code or keeping things up to date with the current way Laravel does it. Maybe you went from Laravel 10 to 11 and now there's a new way of doing something, but the old one still works so you're still using it. Or, maybe that's going back to Laravel 5 and you're still doing it in Laravel 11. I think what really is meant when somebody says, "I don't have time," is, I recognize that will take time, I recognize there is a limited amount of time in the day for me to work on things. Those are both true. I see there will be a benefit," I'm assuming that I just don't think that's the thing for me to do because now. "I think there's better ways to spend my time," is maybe a more accurate way to respond and I think what would be less frustrating to us to hear it expressed that way. Would that resonate with you if somebody said, "I'm not going to take the time to do that right now. I see what you're saying, but it's not important enough for me to do that because now."?
Aaron: I would love to hear that and I think that you're saying it nicely. We kind of joked, like I will come at stuff a little bit more aggressively but I think that that's a nice way, that's a way of giving people... a way to save face still. Which is like, "Hey, I understand everything but it's not important to me." It's like, really? Because you've just described how valuable it is. You just said, "I want to do it," all these different things. What you're really describing to me is there's a conflict and you don't want to face the conflict. And that conflict could be, "I will feel uncomfortable on my own project, spending some time doing a thing where I don't see forward movement." The conflict could be, "I don't know how to pitch it," or, "my boss will get mad at me if I want to do something that doesn't immediately look like it's generating revenue for the company." There's a bunch of these conflicts that I think the person is not intending to face. You said it a nice way, but I still think that allows people to say, "Oh. Well, yeah, it's not important to me." Why? Why is it not important if you keep living life like that it's never going to get better. Motivational speaker today, Aaron, right? Come on.
Joel: You brought some nuance into it because... I guess the framing of this would depend, are you the decision maker or not. If we're coming to you as a fellow dev in a project but you're not the decision maker on setting the priorities for the project, that's one framing. Or, if this is your own personal project and you're like, "Hey Joel, I need some help," and I tell you this will help you and then you're like, "Well, I don't know." That's a different framing and I think both of those carry, like you said, different sets of conflict. I'm glad you brought that out because I could see somebody listening to this and being like, "Well, that doesn't apply to me because I have a boss and I can't even make that decision." But you're not letting them off the hook because they could frame it for the boss. If they really want this to happen, they might not be successful but they could at least try to make it a priority for the team. And then basically relay what we said in the last episode, how to sell it, how to make it palatable, how to be honest, and those sorts of things.
Aaron: I remember on maybe a earlier podcast or some sort of conversation we had a long time ago, I had mentioned that whenever there's a major Laravel version coming out I will read the manual from start to finish again. And obviously, there's jokes there, "Ha-ha, you're such a nerd," or the, "Where do you find the time to do that?" And now you see the whole thing is, I stopped what I'm doing and I read the manual. And that day or two, I actually don't get a lot of work done but I'm way better for the next couple of months.
Joel: If the goal of this episode isn't just to beat up on people that use that excuse, which it is. "I don't have time," is an excuse. We shared some productive things, but I want to go a little bit deeper for the person in that mindset and I am that person from time to time, just being honest. What would you say, Aaron, might help somebody to overcome that? That if they catch themselves saying, "I don't have time,". It's not that they disagree with the advice, they're just like, "I don't have time." Do you have any mental shifts or suggestions on how to catch yourself doing that and maybe redirect you're thinking on it?
Aaron: Just get better. No.
Joel: Such elegant coaching.
Aaron: I don't know about the beginning part but I can tell you after you've taken this advice one time there's a good time for reflection. So if you've taken this advice, and I'm sure that, Joel, you have some input here too. But if you've taken the advice and then you see the success, which you will. Take a minute to reflect on that and remember how you felt, what time you didn't have and now write down or reflect however you do in the time that you've gained. And say, "Look at it, I actually have data now because I'm a programmer and I need data. It's data that when I feel this way, there's still a chance it's going to come out opposite of how I feel, successful."
Joel: I like that. I'll share a personal story that helped me a lot and I think I've shared this with you before. But I was working with a coach outside the realm of technology, it was health and fitness and all that stuff. And I forget the specific, it was some new exercise. I think I was lifting weights twice a week and she, "You know, actually if you did it three times you'd have these benefits." And I said, "I don't have time," and she called me to task on it. But the example she used really resonated with me because I clearly saw how foolish that answer is in the right context so I'll share that. She said, "So Joel, what's keeping you from doing it?" "Well, it's work. I work out during the day, now this is an hour or two hours I have to take off during the day. I'm already doing that twice a week. I have more work." She's like, "Let me ask you. If-"
Aaron: No, no, no, no. First of all, you didn't want to do it.
Joel: I mean, yes. Let be honest that's the...
Aaron: Because as soon as you started like, "Well, there's... I have work." I'm like, "No. I know your work schedule, I work with you."
Joel: That's right. She didn't take that angle but that is a valid angle too. She said, "Well, let me ask you," because I work from home. "If you're working at home and your kid said, "Hey dad, I want to play a game,"' "I would probably say the same thing, 'I don't have time, let's do it after work." She's like, "But what if the kid came in and had blood gushing out of their eyes or mouth, or something? Would you be like, 'Well, I don't have time?' No, obviously your priorities would shift. You would stop what you're doing, you would get them patched up and then you'd go back to work. And in reality, nothing bad would happen."' I'm not going to lose a client, I'm not going to get fired, I'm not going to be unable to pay my mortgage that month. None of that's going to happen. So it was kind of a silly example, but it was sort of also a shocking example. Because it's like, well, clearly that's something that would bubble up priority-wise to the top. And obviously, exercise isn't that level in my life, but she was just making the point. It's not about the time, it's about the priority, which is what we're saying here. I just wanted to share that story because that's a mental game you could play with yourself. If you're saying I don't have time, just think of something. And maybe you don't have kids, but just think of something in your life, a car crashed into your front door. Would you just be like, "I'll go look at that later this afternoon?" No, you would stop what you're doing and you would go deal with it. Does that resonate?
Aaron: Yep.
Joel: Okay. Hopefully, those things are helpful, we've said what we had to say. But seriously I think this is, if you can make this mental shift. And even if in the moment your actions don't change, if you just recognize, be honest with yourself it's not a priority, you're making progress. That's our message for today.
Aaron: So why do fat chance and slim chance mean the same thing?
Joel: Hold on a second. There's a fat chance that'll happen. Yeah, you're right. Do you have any answer or are you looking to me for this?
Aaron: Yes. Because you're so wise and aged... I mean, seasoned. I thought you might know the answer to this.
Joel: I got nothing on that one. All I can do is make it even worse and ask why famous and infamous mean the same thing. So there, Aaron.
Aaron: You know, they say the most valuable thing in the world is not money but it's your time. So I'm a little reluctant to say I need some of your time but I do.
Joel: We're talking about books that we've published. It's over at masteringlaravel.io. Some are free, some are paid. They will take time to read, but they will make you a better Laravel developer.