And sometimes I think I'm a little bit of a perfectionist and I hold myself
back in that sense where I want to make sure everything's great and perfect.
And I have this one kind of narrow idea of how content
creation should be, but like actually it's not.
Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud.
I'm Corey Quinn.
It's been a few years since we got to talk with Serena
DePenzi, better known on the internet as SheNetworks.
Serena, how are you?
I'm good.
How are you?
I'm terrible.
I'm surviving, and sometimes that's really the best that we can hope for.
But the battle continues.
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AWS, Dragonfly guarantees a minimum 25% reduction in your bill.
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Seriously, what are you waiting for?
When last we spoke, you worked at Cisco.
It's not clear what you were doing at Cisco at the time, because
I don't know what the hell anyone at that company is doing.
It sort of seems to be frozen in amber like a beautiful
mosquito at the height of its glory 20 some odd years ago.
And nothing really seemed to evolve since then.
That is probably a tremendously unfair
characterization, but I have trauma around Cisco.
Understandable.
I feel like I walked away from that job with a little trauma myself.
I wouldn't necessarily say that's a completely unfair characteristic.
There's a whole soapbox we can go on about that.
But yeah, last time I was there, I was, uh,
last time I was here, I was working at Cisco.
I'm pretty sure I, uh, was a customer of success.
Engineer, Customer Success Specialist.
I was the technical lead for data center products.
Basically, what my team did was help customers.
It's a post sale job.
So if they're having issues kind of integrating their
products into their existing environment, we kind of
work with them to help get over like those obstacles.
And then before that, I was a data center server.
So UCS, Unified Communication or Unified Compute, tech engineer.
So that's what I was.
If I could, I could remember now.
It's been a while.
It seems like Cisco's as guilty as any other big company about
this, where the jobs become so specific and niched down in various
parts of the org that the only way to identify it is with a string
of words to the point where people's business cards almost have to
unfold to fit all of the words in their job title onto the card.
That is the thing with working at Cisco or being kind of a network
engineer at Cisco is a lot of the jobs you have to know so well.
So much depth where, you know, when you're working as in a traditional network
engineering role, you probably are working with a lot of different products.
You don't have the depth, but those engineers are the ones that call
the ones at Cisco when they need help with a very specific product.
And you just learn every single thing you
could possibly imagine about that product.
And you really do get siloed pretty easily.
But there is a bit of a skill to that.
I have that.
talent with some areas of AWS where I've trod the ground so well that someone
starts describing a weird problem they're having and mid sentence I can finish
the sentence for them and then tell them in the same breath how to fix it.
It's more like, are you a wizard?
No, I'm purely someone that's been doing this
for too long and treading the same ground.
So one of my concerns when I started working
at Cisco, I was fresh out of college.
I got hired through their new graduate program and I had not even heard of UCS.
or Unified Computing Systems before I started working at Cisco.
And then three months later, I was a tech engineer on that team.
And one of my biggest concerns was, how am I going to help these
professional network engineers figure out the problem that they're having?
I have no experience.
And sometimes I would be on calls with customers.
And I would get a notification that they viewed my LinkedIn profile.
And I'm like, Oh, it's over.
They know I'm a fraud.
I don't mean to be unkind, but with AWS, I have the same challenge
where account managers, basically the salespeople that manage
accounts, the accounts get allocated to them based upon spend.
My accounts personally are all tiny.
So, I, whenever I get a new account manager, which seems like it
happens every twenty minutes, when I looked them up on LinkedIn and
sure enough, three to four months ago they were selling gym memberships,
and, okay, this is sort of their first enterprise sales job, and I do
my best to be unfailingly kind because I am a difficult customer at
the best of times and I feel like someone is being pranked over there.
Like, I know what account we're going to give them.
This will fix their little red wagon.
It's almost a form of corporate hazing.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, when I started, everyone kind of warns you.
It's like, it's like drinking water from a hose.
You are going to have the, the next year of your life is going to be rough.
It's going to be very, very rough.
You have to get.
Really, really good quickly.
You have to learn how to manage customers very quickly and not just
customers, but account teams are a big one, especially working in tech.
You would get cases where maybe this customer was a big customer and
they spent a bunch of money and now the account manager is like, replace,
replace, replace, like any problem that the customer is having at all.
They don't want to troubleshoot.
Just send them a new part.
And a lot of times.
Yeah.
That's not the issue at all.
You can replace the part forever, but if it's a faulty configuration that
you keep applying to the thing, packets will not flow any more smoothly.
Oh yeah, there was one case I distinctly remember where
the server that they had was a million dollar server.
And this was a server that did a ton of just like, data, I
don't just, you know, data analysis, computing, all that.
It was a million dollar server and they were having an issue with it.
And the account team just kept hounding me
like, Hey, replace it, replace it, replace it.
And the, the device, the server was in maintenance mode.
So when that particular server was in maintenance mode, half of the
actual dims or, you know, your Ram in there is actually functional.
It's not fully functional in maintenance mode.
I literally just had to turn it off of maintenance mode.
And the account team wanted me to replace a million dollar server.
It's always weird to me, because those roles tend to be relatively early career,
as you describe, and that's the type of corporate job where you almost have
to raise your hand to ask permission to use the bathroom, and you're generally
paid terribly, but you also are able to push a button and ship a million dollar
computer across the country or across the world with effectively no oversight.
It always felt weird to me, that strange juxtaposition.
Like my signing authority would crap out at 50
bucks in some jobs, but I had root in production.
These two things are not necessarily alike, but one
of them feels really out of order with the other one.
Yeah, I would be replacing sometimes parts that were more
than my entire salary in a day or more than my student loans
that I had that I was killing myself to try and pay off.
And I would just be like, Oh, press about.
And then It just shows up at their door, obviously.
And so that was very interesting.
I mean, I will say as far as the culture goes, it wasn't, here's the thing,
good TAC engineers, they can get away with murder because they're so hard
to find, they're hard to retain because it's a position you get burnt out.
Really quickly and you, they'll just eat you up and spit you out.
Right.
Um, and so if you are a good tech engineer and you don't get
complaints and you're solving your cases and not really making
any trouble, you can really, you can kind of do whatever you want.
It really is dependent on team.
I would say I only have experience working on one team and cultures in
those teams can vary very widely, but that was kind of my experience.
In a lot of companies, when you excel in a support function, very often you get
poached out of that support function to go do something else within the org.
You're amazing at, at getting this stuff up and running.
Do you want to come be a sales engineer or do you want
to come work on the engineering team to build the thing?
Does Disco have a culture of doing that or do you wind up,
I'm excelling at this and this is where I'm going to stay?
So I don't know if you've ever publicly talked about
this, so I'll kind of keep it somewhat generic.
But when I was a TAC engineer, I had applied for this customer success role.
One, because I wanted to get out of TAC.
Mainly money was a big motivator there
because I really was not making that much.
And then two, I was working so many severity
outage cases, like every single day.
And you'd be there until 7 p.
m.
before you could hand the case off to Australia.
I mean, we're talking about hospital outages, 9 1 1 outages,
and they can get really stressful, and executives get involved.
I'll be on a call with 50 different people, a CEO of,
you know, like companies as big as like NBC or something.
It can get really hairy and dicey really quick.
But I applied.
I got hired essentially.
And so a part of the internal process there is the manager from the hiring
team and the manager from your team discuss when the transition will
happen, basically, because there has to be some, you know, overlap, right?
And, um, I didn't know that someone else
on my team also got hired in that position.
They had more than one.
And so when I had told my boss, he was very
upset because we were already short staffed.
And at this point, they were not giving us any more rec.
So they weren't hiring.
They were just whittling down more and more.
And so TAC engineers felt like they had even more on their
plate, not a great, you know, combination of situations there.
And then I would say like a week later, I got, me and the other
person on the team that got hired for this position, got an email
saying that like, Oh, we decided to go in a different direction.
Always fun when that happens.
And this, this doesn't comport with my experience with TAC back when
I was running around data centers and setting up weird network things.
TAC support was legendary, where they had a follow the sun handoff, where
someone's shift was ending, where they bring someone else on to handover.
And the people you were talking to.
Could have done a walk on role at any of these companies as the network
architect slash most senior network engineer there without breaking a sweat.
It was amazing to behold.
Every other company's support looked like relative ass.
So the thing was is they wanted us on that new team.
The reason that they were going a different way is because my manager
at the time, I assume, I assume, didn't want us to leave the team.
And it wasn't anything about us not being a good fit for the position.
It was, this was gonna, you know, cause a problem with the team.
And they were, were going to be losing two really
good engineers on an already understaffed team.
But they weren't very transparent with that.
And that's how I quit Cisco the first time.
After that happened, I applied for jobs that same night.
Two weeks later, had a job and I was like, peace out.
Good for you.
And I want to be clear, because we've spent a fair bit of
time talking about it already, you don't work at Cisco.
It would be interesting if you did, and this is how you like,
don't worry, it's not like they ever listen to anything I say.
That sounds like a way to get surprise fired the next day.
For a little while now, you've been a security
analyst at Black Hills Information Security.
That is cool.
Quite the pivot.
It is a pivot.
Yeah.
It's been fun though.
I, I really do like working on tests.
I mean, there's pros and cons.
There's some kind of unexpected anomalies or
things, you know, just the learning curve.
I do a lot of network based pen tests.
Uh, so I was really good at all of the networking aspects of
testing, which was great because it's, it can be very network heavy.
I, I recently did a test.
That was just network access bypass on site for a customer, and so that was
fun because that was the first time I ever like Really went on site somewhere
and was, you know, plugging my laptop into things and that went really well.
So, yeah.
It's a very fun type of role to my understanding,
at least the way that it's described.
But then I talked to people at some length who
do the physical pen tests and all the rest.
And it turns out, like, the overwhelming majority of their
work by volume is, it seems, is spent writing reports.
A hundred percent.
Yeah, I would say the vast majority of what I'm doing is report writing.
There are elements of that in the consulting space as well.
Like, there's no way away from it.
It's, like, honestly, the biggest lie I would always tell
myself, I didn't realize I was lying at the time, was You
know, back in school, it was, Man, I can't wait to enter the
real world and stop having to write book reports all the time.
Yeah, that's not how the world worked out as it turned out.
Yeah, it's probably 20 times worse than college.
So if you don't like writing reports, this probably is not the career for you.
I hate to say it.
You know, I will say that.
Different pen testing companies have different standards on reporting.
So for people who are listening, if you are interested in kind
of finding out when you, uh, these standards, when you're,
you know, scouting these companies, you can ask them for a
sample report, which is just like a bunch of fake information.
But It gives you an idea of the type of information, the
style and methodology that you will receive in a report.
You know, I've seen reports from other pen testing companies that
customers had shown me and sometimes it's literally just like an
Excel sheet and they're like, this is the finding that I found.
We ran a Nessus scan and slapped our logo at the top of the printout.
What do you want from us?
Not
quite the same thing.
Yeah.
And some, I know, you know, at some pen testing companies
too, you have testers working multiple tests at once.
You know, luckily at Black Hills, we don't do that.
We have one customer, one test.
We're scheduled off with that.
I can, you know, put all of my time into this one customer.
I'm not spreading it across three, four different.
People, which I appreciate.
I think that's some good advice if you are looking for a pen
testing job, find out that information of how many pen tests
at once will you actually be on, because that is important.
Yeah, that's one of those things that really matters in relatively short order.
So you've also been for quite a while now,
an extremely prolific content creator.
So it seems like writing reports isn't enough.
You want to create additional content beyond that.
When do you sleep?
I would say.
I am probably like a D grade content creator,
mainly because I'm just not very consistent.
I like putting stuff out there, right?
But, you know, some people go into content creation with the
idea that this is something that they want to do full time.
They want to make a full time career out of YouTube.
Or, you know, TikTok or whatever that is.
I can honestly say, in my opinion, content creation is harder
than my actual jobs, either as an engineer or as a pen tester.
Absolutely.
One of the things that I think dooms a lot of prospective content creators
is that requirement of, I'm going to do this as an, as my primary job.
Because as soon as you do that, suddenly that's an awful lot of pressure,
and you're under tight deadlines, and it doesn't matter if you don't
have something to say this week, you've got to ship it out because people
are expecting you to ship that out, and it, it really feels like it's
And I think that comes through in a lot
of content when people are under the gun.
Yeah.
I have this past couple weeks, I've been watching a lot
of other tech YouTubers, mainly trying to see different
styles of how people put together, you know, their content.
And because sometimes I think I'm a little bit of a
perfectionist and I hold myself back in that sense where.
I want to make sure everything's great and perfect.
And I have this one kind of narrow idea of how content creation
should be, but like, actually it's not, it's not that at all.
There's so many different content creators with their own
styles and their own way of explaining and doing things.
And so I think it's kind of important to find your way, but also like
you said, yeah, if you don't have anything to say, it is a lot of
pressure and you can kind of like the creative burnout is so real.
It is so real.
I, uh, Yesterday tweeted and I asked other YouTubers, how, how much
time aside from the actual video, are you putting into each video?
Right?
So you might see a finished product.
That's 11, 15, 20 minutes long.
And most of these people are saying 20 times the actual length of the
video is how much time and effort they're putting into just that one video.
So 11 minute video might cost you 20, 40 hours of prep and.
Like editing, filming, all that.
When I was doing the YouTube thing, which I never quite got the
hang of, I, that was the first thing I cut when I found myself
stretched too far, just because it was, it was about as much
work as every other piece of content I put out, put together.
Like here on a podcast, like sure, I can turn the camera on and we can put
the video up on YouTube like we tend to do, but that's not the same thing
as I'm now going to monologue to the camera with a highly produced thing.
And I offloaded everything that I could.
I don't know how to edit video.
I Don't have the bandwidth to learn, so I
just throw that to people who are great at it.
But even, like, the rehearsals, the scripts, the costumes, because
of course you need costumes if you're doing this stuff correctly.
Uh, and also the, with all of that work that gets onto it, I suddenly found that
I had writer's block for the first time, where I don't quite know where to go
or what to say next, because it feels like most of the things I wanted to say
were three to five minutes, and the algorithm demands longer content than that.
I just, you know, I gave up on it.
It wasn't bringing me joy.
And a lot of content creators, especially now that I've been
doing it for probably four or five years ish, I do see a lot
of content creators come up really fast, which is great because
they have that early momentum and excitement, and the second
that wears off, You just kind of see them, you know, trail off.
And I did that personally.
I mean, I still do try and produce content in various forms.
I don't really hold myself back to one format per se, but I see
a lot of people have all of these ambitions in the beginning.
And then once you get into it and you realize, wow, I'm spending a lot of time
and a lot of work and I'm, you're not getting paid the vast majority of time.
You're not making money until you have a decent size following.
The worst part of it is when you're just starting out the
getting paid path where you're effectively busting your
hump and putting all of that work in because it's now a job.
You are making money and you have made commitments to folks and
you're getting 500 in return for those tens of hours of work.
It is so far below minimum wage when you figure it, when you
amortize it out that it's, it is the worst situation to be in.
I'd rather be doing it for free for the love of it.
And that's why I'm very particular about, you know, what kind of
sponsors I take on, and I do consider how many hours in this video.
Each video is going to take, you know, cause
at the end of the day, I'm a salary employee.
I make, you know, decent money working in cybersecurity.
So a 500 incentive for a video is not exciting for me, particularly
based on the amount of work that I would have to put in to that video.
Right.
I'm like, I don't, I don't want to work for minimum wage now,
especially when it's cutting into just like your Personal time, right?
Outside of your nine to five.
And that's a lot of content creators.
They go to work during the day and then they get
off and they spend their weekends doing this stuff.
And yeah, and there's very little reward most of the time.
And the idea of, well, I'm building a brand.
Well, okay, sure.
But that can be fickle and there's no
guarantee there's a payoff there down the road.
And as, as long as you keep compromising and having to put
different types of content out there to assuage advertisers, it's a.
You get away from the core of what you love doing.
It feels like you don't recognize where you end up from where you started.
It is, it is tough.
That's why I think I'm a little bit more infrequent with
putting out at least YouTube videos and video content.
I did start a podcast with my friend Allie, who's,
uh, ending with Allie on, on, Twitch and Twitter or X.
No, it's Twitter.
Twitter.
Yeah.
And so, uh, you know, that is kind of nice.
I do like that format a lot more.
There's a lot of like two way conversation, obviously,
like we're having here and different opinions.
And so I've really enjoyed that format a lot.
And I'm a big podcast listener myself.
Um, we're getting very meta here, but yeah, I'm a big podcast listener myself.
So I really do like the format and the platform.
Yeah, I was a guest on the show.
Thank you for that.
It was, it was a lot of fun.
I like the conversational style very much.
It's why I enjoy this podcast way more than I'm going to sit here and monologue
into a microphone, because the microphone gives nothing back whatsoever.
Here, if I'm too zany, you'll laugh or ask me what the hell is wrong with me.
And great, that is feedback that I can read.
Oh, maybe I should tone it down in some ways,
put the costumes and props away, and we're good.
There's a, there's a sense of, It's progressing somewhere, and
it's not just me having to fill the dead air to hear myself talk.
Yeah, we are definitely more casual talking on our podcast.
Yes, thank you.
We're a guest on it, so thank you for coming on.
It was a great conversation.
But then, you know, I listened to like also at Jack Reciter's podcast,
Darknet Diaries, and he just, he has so much production into that podcast.
It's great.
I love it.
But then I also listen to other podcasts that have zero production.
And it's just like, you know, throwing stuff out there.
And I like that there's kind of that diversity to choose from
depending on like, Hey, what am I, you know, in the mood for?
I'm like cleaning my house or, you know, going on a walk
to see the outdoors every once in a while and really
just kind of, you know, pick what I want to listen to.
I want to talk about naming and branding for a second.
You are known on the internet as SheNetworks, but now you're in
the security space more so than you are the networking space.
Do you think there's going to come a day where
it no longer aligns with what you're focusing on?
No, I think it'll always align.
I mean, networking is my first passion, especially in security.
I do so much networking work, networking content as well.
So I do webcasts for Black Hills Information Security where I work.
They have a YouTube page where they're
constantly putting out this kind of content.
And I've done webcasts on like, you know, gathering credentials through network
based attacks where you're basically exploiting different networking protocols.
DNS, deep diving into DNS and how you can use it, uh, from an offensive
attacker standpoint or, you know, from a blue team, what are the threats there?
And I'm trying to remember which some of the other ones that I have
done, but everything that I really do still is very networking focused.
And it's kind of nice because coming up as a network
engineer, you are learning all these protocols.
And now I feel like I'm learning them just in a different way, like I'm seeing
them all in a new light and going back to like my days as a network engineer
and being like, Oh, well, that's scary because, you know, I didn't, I wasn't
as familiar with all the ways that networking protocols can be exploited
and now that I am and I'm like, Oh my goodness, like, It's very eye opening.
When I first got into networking, because I
wanted to understand how the internet worked.
And then once I learned a bit about it, I entered a different phase that I'm
still in, which is how the hell did any of this ever work in the first place?
Yeah, it's, it's exciting.
I, I love that.
I have obviously a love hate relationship with the internet
because there's so much good and there's so much bad.
But, you know, especially the way that it's evolved over, last few decades.
And, uh, yeah, I, I probably will always stay really close to networking
and just really focus on like the security aspects of networking.
So I think I'll always, I'll always be SheNetworks tried and true, you know?
Critical error when I launched, uh, my last week
in AWS brand by putting the term last week into it.
Which means that I am on the hook every week to go ahead and
crank something out, even when I'm not in any way, shape,
or form prepared to do it, or it's been a slow news week.
There's an implicit expectation there.
I'm sure someday, if AWS, uh, fades in its supremacy that it's in
now and the world pivots to something else, that'll also change.
Leave me feeling old and dated, but that so far hasn't happened yet.
There's something to be said about, on some level,
having a brand that sort of ties you into a space, even
when your interests are dragging you in other places.
I don't quite know how to fix that because people, people crave specificity.
That is true, especially when you start building, you know,
an audience on one topic and then, and pick, pick, pick, pick.
Pivoting can be very, very difficult.
Luckily, I feel like I haven't really run into that
issue yet, but I mean, there's still plenty of time.
Exactly.
That's, that's, that's the fun part is you
never quite know what tomorrow's going to hold.
Where do you see yourself aiming at next?
And they have three to five years.
I know it sounds like a job interview question, but usually
the reason folks ask it is, okay, do you have ambition?
What word do you see things tracking?
And in the interview context, it's always a, there's a formulaic way to respond.
Great.
You do the thing, but I'm legitimately serious here.
Where do you see your arc taking?
I would really like to do more podcasting content
and really kind of grow that as a platform.
I think that it's a great way to give information to people and for people
to kind of integrate that information into their everyday life and tasks.
Right.
But As far as, I don't know, I just, I still have so much to learn in security
that I can just see myself here for the next five years just learning as
much as I can, you know, and hopefully being able to make that information
accessible to other people who want to go in a similar route that I did,
and I know it sounds terrible, but I feel like I'm not that ambitious.
Just like, I'm happy with what I'm doing.
Like I said, the podcast, but other than that, I just want to
learn and continue to do what I'm doing and just get better at it.
There's a desperate need for this.
Security is one of those things that people care about
right after they really should have cared about security.
And in cloud, there's a sense that networking isn't really something you have
to spend a lot of time focusing on because your provider handles it for you.
But.
First, that only works until suddenly it very much doesn't.
And also, I became a much better systems person
when I understood how the network worked.
I got much better at troubleshooting,
understanding why I was seeing certain behaviors.
It made me a much more well rounded engineer.
And I think that there's not a lot of attention given to
it these days in the bootcamps and The DevOps in 5 Minutes
guides that people wind up publishing out constantly.
I wish that there was more of an emphasis on it
because it all comes down to what's on the wire.
I really think the crux of that problem is people who are also giving out these
bootcamps and creating these things don't know about networking themselves.
Maybe they had a networking class.
If they, you know, were a CS major and it was like, oh, I hated that class.
And, uh, but to me, I think networking really is the golden ticket.
It's just so fundamental.
And of course, I'm sure, you know, with software, software engineer is
going to say, you know, software and coding is more fundamental or whatever.
But there's just so many places you can go and things you can do.
And everything just starts making a lot more sense.
When you have the foundational networking concepts, because I did get the AWS.
Um, it wasn't like the, uh, the AWS associate certification.
I did take that and pass.
And really, it was so easy for me just because.
I already understood all these concepts.
I just needed to associate AWS's terminology with these existing concepts.
And once I was like, oh, okay, so AWS calls, you know, this
thing, a load balancer, and you have route 53 for, you know, DNS.
Or you can hold it wrong and use it as a database,
which I get yelled at by the team for all the time.
But yeah, everything's a database if you hold it wrong.
This is one of the things I've always appreciated about your content, is
there's a certain category of content creator where they don't actually
have the in depth knowledge around the thing that they're speaking of.
And I want to be clear, I am not talking about the learn in public types.
Great, good for them.
They are, they are being Transparent.
But the people passing themselves off as experts about a thing
that they only learned existed a week ago really irks me.
It's a, because you, there's nuance and there's in, there's in
depth things and sharp edges you want to guide people around.
And if you just Went through the Hello World tutorial and now
you're talking as if you've been working with it for years.
You're gonna lead people to a bad place.
You've never even slightly moved in that direction.
Yeah, I definitely see that.
I see that in content creation.
I see it sometimes people just giving bad advice on YouTube or TikTok.
And then I see it in my comment section.
So there's one video I've talked about this before.
There's one video that I did.
It was like, can hackers track your IP address?
You know, find your location from your IP, find your house.
And the amount of negative comments that I received on that
was typically, I would say, like, maybe high school gamer
age demographic of people being like, that's not true.
I hope that's the demographic because the depressing part is
that these are mid career professionals behaving that way.
I want to say, I mean, I just, I want to say that's not the case.
Hopefully not.
I mean.
How I usually respond to this, because one, I think people
think I'm a little bit younger than I am, and I don't have the
experience, or I am one of those content creators that reads
something is like, okay, I'm going to throw this out there.
And I'm so conscious about, I don't want to put out wrong information.
So I, I double check things that I, I know 100%.
I'm like, Oh, just let me double check, make sure, because
I don't want to put inaccurate information out there.
Right.
But you know, with those comments, especially with the IP address.
And I just commented, I'm like, here's the RFC for the internet protocol.
Please point out the section where it talks about location tracking.
And they're so confused by this because they've
never been presented with an RFC in their life.
They have no clue that RFCs exist and that internet protocols are open
standards that you can find everything about in these documents, right?
And so I've had people be like, I don't know what that is.
Like, I'm confused.
I don't know.
Or one person was like, I can't find it.
And I'm like, I know.
That's kind of the entire point of the conversation.
Yeah.
Right.
And so I do feel like I do get a lot of flack sometimes just from
people who like, assume that I'm one of those content creators.
And so that kind of irks me when I see people doing that, because.
It's like, dang, like I'm fighting these stereotypes, right?
And this person is basically doing what everyone, a lot of these other
people are accusing me of doing, and they're successfully doing it.
Don't get me wrong.
There's a lot of content creators out there
that are building a big following off of this.
But yeah, sometimes I'm just like, dang, cause
I'm like, I'm in it for the, the love of the game.
You know, I like, this is what I like to do.
And so.
Yeah, that's tough.
That's a tough
area.
I appreciate your taking the time to speak with me about all this.
If people want to learn more, where's the
best place for them to find you these days?
So I'm SheNetworks on YouTube, TikTok and ex Twitter.
And you could also find my podcast.
It's called Breaking the Internet.
It's everywhere podcasts are.
So it's me, SheNetworks, and then my co host, Ending with Allie.
And those are the, those podcasts.
Best places to find me and my content.
And we will, of course, put links to all that in the show notes.
Thank you so much for being so generous with your time.
I really do appreciate it.
Thanks for having me on.
Serena DePenzey.
She networks, mostly, on the internet in most places.
I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud.
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