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The chaps dig into another Keithism to see where it takes them.
Keith Klain published a blog post that drew a line in the sand for testers. His conclusion is blunt: there's a specific type of testing work that too many in our industry believe is our raison d'etre, while the market is rapidly reassessing its value (and not in a good way!).
Chapters
00:00 - Intro
01:12 - Welcome (may contain traces of Premier League banter)
03:00 - Who is Keith Klain and why should you listen to him?
06:30 - Checking vs testing: what's the actual difference?
12:00 - Keith's warning: AI is coming for the…
12:56 - The CEO has one job…
14:04 - …and they have two ways to do it
15:31 - If your value isn’t the amount of tests you’ve executed, what is it?
19:42 - Richard's updated AiT principle: shared understanding over assumed understanding
23:53 - Shift left is more than "test the requirement first"
27:18 - The ways your perceived value is constantly moving.
31:57 - Maaike's stance: what if you refuse to use AI entirely?
34:09 - Too big to fail? What AI investment really means for the industry
39:53 - The skill no one taught testers that now matters most
42:54 - "Become the insufferable AI person" and other survival tactics
45:22 - Keith's call to action
47:09 - Why no one at Test Coast said "risk" when asked why they test
51:01 - AI summaries as input to other AI: the risk nobody designed for
54:00 - How one bad step ruins everything
55:27 - Statistics, Hugging Face, and the skills testers need to learn next
57:43 - There’s more than one way to “be technical”
59:54 - A rallying cry from Rich to the testing community
01:04:00 - Forward-deployed engineers: just a QE by another name?
Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:
- 03:00 - Keith Klain
- Keith's blog Quality Remarks
- The blog post that triggered this episode: "Checking isn't testing. Soon it won't be employment either."
- Keith's LinkedIn
- 19:33 - ELT stands for Executive Leadership Team aka The C-Suite. The folks who have job titles like Chief Executive Office (CEO), Chief Technology Officer (CTO), etc.
- 20:00 - You can find Richard's AiT Principles here
- And you can listen to his new ideas about those principles in Episode 33 “Six Principles of Automation in Testing: Still Relevant in 2026?”
- We’ll add a link to the talk as soon as we can
- And you can listen to his new ideas about those principles in Episode 33 “Six Principles of Automation in Testing: Still Relevant in 2026?”
- 27:18 - Vernon's Credibility Playbook
- 27:18 - Vernon’s upcoming Agile Testing Days talk “If Testers Had a Dragon’s Den Pitch, Would Anyone Invest?”
- DM Vern if you’re interested in going as he might be able to help… 😉
- 32:00 - Maaike's LinkedIn post Vernon referred to during the episode
- You should subscribe to her blog too
- 34:14 - John Cutler
- John’s newsletter
- John’s LinkedIn
- 37:26 - Simon Wardley
- If you're not following Simon Wardley, please follow Simon Wardley! His work on Wardley Maps and situational awareness in strategy is essential reading
- Simon's LinkedIn
- 46:38 - Rapid Software Testing (RST) is the methodology created by James Bach and Michael Bolton.
- 47:12 - The Test Coast Conference where Richard delivered a keynote
- 49:44 - Vidya Ranganathan’s fanbloodytastic post about the different kinds of risks we should be considering
- Vidya's LinkedIn
- 56:48 - Hugging Face
- The Hugging Face website
- The Wikipedia page
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Vernon Richard Show?
Vernon Richards and Richard Bradshaw discuss all things software testing, quality engineering and life in the world of software development. Plus our own personal journeys navigating our careers and lifes.